I really enjoyed your video . The comparison really hit me so I made mine . Always happy to shout out those Tubers I rate 👍. We should do it more, it's hard enough to attract new subscribers without keeping quiet about those we enjoy ourselves .
Interesting ideas you have for reducing consumption at peak times from the grid. I always end up consuming about 1kW a day at peak rate which adds up over the year! Not having a feed-in tariff means feeding back would be wasted energy for me. There's a couple of options to configure the victron to stop drawing anything from the grid so was going to give those a try.
Interesting update Nigel, thanks. As you say, the flexibility for the changing market is key at the moment. Seems to be changing on a daily basis right now!
Good to hear all the setting changes and why you set them that way. Smaller setup here with GE 5.2 and AC3 inverter. So I’m now back to 100% charge on IOG cheap rate then let it run down until solar helps to recover as much as it can. HW still on during peak sun times but may move that also to cheap time. Main concern is how much techy controls we need that our partners may struggle to achieve without us. The system needs to be more intelligent and less tweaking of settings or HA installs. Sadly we are miles from that point.
With my small system and no export tarrif, I have a HA automation which switches my Victron into BatteryLife mode when the clocks change, though I might change that now that I'm on Octopus's Agile tarrif and so can make use of the cheap (and negative) hours and occasional freebies (which HA automatically schedules for me) :-) All in all my focus is on reducing the cost of winter wherever I can.
How are you heating/cooling your home? Are you using a heat pump? Are you using Task Heating? Just as in the late 80's onwards when we had task specific lighting, with hear panels we have the possibility of using targeted emissiive heating along with the heat pump providing the base load warming of the room, which works to advantages of heat pumps.
I won't have enough solar power for the next 5 months. I have switched on my grid ring mains electric and will use it when it is the cheapest Agile slots, more on that day if my house batteries are getting low. Charge the batteries when the electric price is very cheap or minus priced. I have been upgrading my house battery this year so will have a 7.68 KWh main house battery which is new this year, back up LTO battery 2.76kwh (old house battery), plug in to inverter an extra 2kwh from PowerOak and 0.53KWh from van solar battery. Settings will need to be changed if I want to charge the battery from the grid and when back again if I want to mix in other electric without it charging the battery.
@@EVPuzzle This I know works for the hybrid inverters but you don’t have a hybrid. FROM SOLIS APP Select Plant Select Device Click the Inverter number Click 3 dots (top right) Select Control Inverter Agree to T&C’s Enter your password (same as used for the app) Click OK
I believe that you don’t have a Hybrid Solis inverter but got those who do. FROM SOLIS APP Select Plant Select Device Click the Inverter number Click 3 dots (top right) Select Control Inverter Agree to T&C’s Enter your password (same as used for the app) Click OK
I use a custom automation in home assistant to set the Victron grid setpoint and mode based on multiple variables from all the connected systems. I don't have time to do it all manually. Oh to be retired 😉. Great information.
Also don't forget the round trip efficiency on the Victron system is on average around 70%. This needs to be factored in when dumping energy to the grid for profit.
@@philippadobson1589 my system is battery only (Victron inverter + Pylontech batteries, no solar) I've use the data straight out of VRM. The efficiency depends on the inverter output demand. Therefore I suggest that is an average. I've done the calcs a couple of times and ended up with approx 70%. I'm happy for someone to prove different.
@peterclarke5323 the data I see misses some of the energy going out to the grid . Can't be bothered downloading the raw data which I understand is more accurate
My Octopus export just renewed at 15p p/kWh for another 12 months, competition from EON at 16p p/kWh might just keep the export payments up for now. Like you I can see the export payments dropping in the future if import drops or at least stabilizes. Realistically in the UK, even on amazingly sunny days we have a glut of solar then but those days are rare I'm sure. There are 20 houses on my road, we're the only one with solar, even if I'm hitting my export limit of 3.68kW I'm probably only covering the needs of the road on base load.
I am still maximising my solar exports set to 100% and consume battery from 7p charge. As for every kw i export i get to import 2. I use node red script to track solar production levels and set victron grid setpoint to that number. But I start realising that I will also like you recently did need to expand my storage capacity. I buit seplos DIY batery kit with first battery and plan to do same for the second one as £1380 for 15KWH is making ROI better. Although second battery will not have same economic effects as first one. As we rearly use up all the battery before ev charge kiks in. Sometimes i notice that octopus will start ev charge early and i programed victron to start home battery charge when ev is charging. So starting earlier like 22:30 works well not completely draining batery to its limits.
Like you I am on IOG and fully charging over night to 100% not 90% though - I thought it was better for balancing? At the moment I have set my grid setpoint to -1000kWh and even on cloudy days I still have battery to spare. I will be getting a heat pump installed later this winter - when that happens I may need all the battery power I can get, so I will go back to -50kWh. I am just trying to get home assistant running at the moment - a bit of a struggle tbh but I will get there. I cant quite see why you are still using the Eddi to harvest solar at all - it is surely always better to heat your water over night - the savings must far outweigh any losses due to the tank loosing heat over the day - particularly in winter when any such losses just put heat into the house. What efficiency do you assume for charging a battery then discharging to the grid? I have been assuming 80% which I thought was relatively cautious but others are suggesting it could be as low as 70% efficient. The store room where the Victron inverters live does get pretty warm when the batteries are charging - over 30deg last night!
When the eddi tops up it's using 0.2 kWh it's nothing and raises temp from 47 to 52 degrees , without reheating temp drops a bit . Heating more in the morning typically heats too much so is wasteful , my minimal solar boosts uses least energy overall and keeps water piping hot all day
Measuring my round trip efficiency, 75% seems like a good average . I ignore efficiency and just look at the energy bills , if it's paying it's working .
@@EVPuzzle I thought the battery degradation was just if you left it at 100%? My battery is at 100% for less than an hour at night. It spends much more at 100% during a sunny day though which is something I want to look into.
@@philippadobson1589 pushing, squeezing electrons into a nearly full battery is bad which is why the charge rate reduces at the top , it's not good . Slower charge rate and not going full is best . Take mine , pylontech say full is 53.5v but Victrin sets 100% at 52.4v for better longevity . Filling the battery every day adds some strain that's not needed as there's very little capacity at the top anyway
Yeah I’ve set mine to minus -50 as it provides a good buffer for high loads, I run a maintenance setting on my batteries every night so they go below 50/40% I run my battery at 3 DVCC to keep the charge low in summer
I got my system in summer of 2022, mainly based on your videos - I have 3 US3000 pylontech batteries that I charge between 2 and 5 on Octopus flux, when you say "your victron batteries" are you referring to the pylontech stack you have? Reason I ask is you mention charging at max 70A, the most I have done till now is 54A - not enough during winter to fully charge in the 3 hour window of cheap(ish) electricity available. If you have charged at 70A the same batteries as me then I will up my charge rate to maximise the charge window ( i only need to go to 60A max btw)
@@EVPuzzle Many thanks for your reply, I have a Solis Hybrid 3.6 that can go up to 60A, I am holding off on switching to Agile for another month as the Export flux rate is now 27p at peak time!
Washer is 1.8kw Oven 2.4kw but runs at 1200w when at temp . Just a cheap Hotpoint oven but wat better than the outgoing 2.8kw Smeg. Think it was only £239 so not a big expense
@EVPuzzle Cheers. I was thinking of things like a 1kw kettle, a single bar toaster. A microwave which uses half power on half power, rather than mine which uses full power then almost none switching between every 6 seconds or so, to achieve the illusion of half power. A dishwasher and washing machine that heat water at 1kw instead of 3kw. These didn't matter when using grid only, but now relying on unreliable/ cloudy/winter solar, it makes sense to match up with appliances - even if one loses the convenience of fast boil etc.
Interesting. At the moment I am going to keep going with the maximum export idea until it costs money. However September has been a very poor solar month....
Would it be avoidable all together to use peak rate, if you charge your batteries over night and just consume battery power during the day time, so not drawing from the grid until night cheap rate?
Does anyone have anything other than Victron with a "forced export" parameter set and working? Would love to know how you guys do this at 4 to 15kW scale. I am off grid and put an extra 440v 8amp string on my inverter and bought an extra 14kWh of batteries, so I can boil the kettle this winter.
If you get fit payments and an ev so cannot get export rates it may be a good idea to swap to tomato as you get better rates than octopus and don't have to go to the expense of getting a new intelligent car charger.
You can have Fit and export payments as I've explained in my previous videos . Id never go with a small startup energy company now , after so many failed previously. Octopus rates are low and there's lots of extra value staying with them . Octopus are the leaders for good reason
Yes but as you said companies could stop paying at the drop of the hat whereas fit is guaranteed for years also tomato may be small but if they fold just change again no problem,it is horses for courses for me and a lot of others it's a no brainer 😊
They win the award for having the least amount of white men on a website ever. Also very unclear as to what their tariffs cost. I agree with EV puzzle too risky
Looking forward to a smart ai that can just deal with all this fiddly decision making for me! All I need is a button if I need to force charge my EV or I need it full over night, AI can figure the rest out!
U say u buy at 7 and sell at 15. Apparently that's a win win situation. I recently got my hands on a friend's yearly energy invoice here in Belgium. He bought at 15 and sold at 5. Because he had a battery his yearly invoice was 80€. Here in Belgium we pay taxes and usage tariffs for each kWh that we get or put in the network. That money paid in usage of the network divided by the sum of all the energy received + injected comes up to 7 cents per kWh. My conclusion is that he paid 2 cents per each kWh he injected. How is it there in the UK? Do u guys pay for the usage of the network?
@@EVPuzzle that is much easier to calculate then. If u can't be off-grid, then u have to pay. In that case since u already have to pay, selling can make sense. Here in Belgium, I think it doesn't make sense at all. I prefer to start electric heaters even if they aren't that efficient as heat pumps, then pay to put the energy on the grid once the home battery reaches 90 or 95%. If the room is warmer, then the thermostatic valves open less, using less gas heating. And after that let the mppt lower the charge it puts in the system.
@@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq it's fascinating how different countries manage their energy and implement schemes for payment . It makes no sense to charge for free energy given to the grid. I can definitely imagine going off grid for much of the year if they ever started charging to export BUT id still have to pay the daily 50p charge which is going up lots atm
I find the biggest issue to be change. My system never stays the same for long enough to keep track of. Solar plus battery one year then added an Eddi, got HomeAssistant up and running then the tariff changed so Eddi was less useful, then the EV + Zappi, then the boiler starts leaking and finally (so far) today our heat-pump install began. This weekend I will be learning how to integrate this with HomeAssistant to maximise our efficiency and get maximum comfort. Constant change is a good thing… right?
@@ItsMe-q6j bacteria will grow between 20.5°C and 50°C, the optimal temperature range for growth of leigonalla is 35°C and 46°C. The legionella bacteria cannot survive in water above 55°C for more than five or six hours and it's survival in temperatures above 55°C is shorter depending on the temperature. Instantaneous destruction of the bacteria occurs at a temperature of 70°C and above.
Thanks for the shout-out, Nigel !
It's great that we can all share our geekness thinking 🤔 😀 👍
I really enjoyed your video . The comparison really hit me so I made mine .
Always happy to shout out those Tubers I rate 👍. We should do it more, it's hard enough to attract new subscribers without keeping quiet about those we enjoy ourselves .
Yes but I don't have a link to your RUclips channel?
I amended a lot of my settings once the export rate increased to 15p. It made far more sense to export anything I possibly could. Great video.
Interesting ideas you have for reducing consumption at peak times from the grid. I always end up consuming about 1kW a day at peak rate which adds up over the year! Not having a feed-in tariff means feeding back would be wasted energy for me. There's a couple of options to configure the victron to stop drawing anything from the grid so was going to give those a try.
Interesting update Nigel, thanks. As you say, the flexibility for the changing market is key at the moment. Seems to be changing on a daily basis right now!
I'm not sure export prices are dropping any time soon my Outgoing Octopus 12M Fixed just renewed on the 22nd and it's still 15p/kWh.
@@nervousfrog101 we can but hope but you heard it here first ...late October😬
Good to hear all the setting changes and why you set them that way. Smaller setup here with GE 5.2 and AC3 inverter. So I’m now back to 100% charge on IOG cheap rate then let it run down until solar helps to recover as much as it can. HW still on during peak sun times but may move that also to cheap time. Main concern is how much techy controls we need that our partners may struggle to achieve without us. The system needs to be more intelligent and less tweaking of settings or HA installs. Sadly we are miles from that point.
With my small system and no export tarrif, I have a HA automation which switches my Victron into BatteryLife mode when the clocks change, though I might change that now that I'm on Octopus's Agile tarrif and so can make use of the cheap (and negative) hours and occasional freebies (which HA automatically schedules for me) :-) All in all my focus is on reducing the cost of winter wherever I can.
How are you heating/cooling your home? Are you using a heat pump? Are you using Task Heating? Just as in the late 80's onwards when we had task specific lighting, with hear panels we have the possibility of using targeted emissiive heating along with the heat pump providing the base load warming of the room, which works to advantages of heat pumps.
I won't have enough solar power for the next 5 months. I have switched on my grid ring mains electric and will use it when it is the cheapest Agile slots, more on that day if my house batteries are getting low. Charge the batteries when the electric price is very cheap or minus priced. I have been upgrading my house battery this year so will have a 7.68 KWh main house battery which is new this year, back up LTO battery 2.76kwh (old house battery), plug in to inverter an extra 2kwh from PowerOak and 0.53KWh from van solar battery. Settings will need to be changed if I want to charge the battery from the grid and when back again if I want to mix in other electric without it charging the battery.
The Solis Hybrid Inverter charging can also be controlled via the app, you don’t have to have to do things on the inverter.
Really ? Ive not seen that . Can you point me towards anything that describes the features for battery control in Solis cloud . I can't find it
@@EVPuzzle
This I know works for the hybrid inverters but you don’t have a hybrid.
FROM SOLIS APP
Select Plant
Select Device
Click the Inverter number
Click 3 dots (top right)
Select Control Inverter
Agree to T&C’s
Enter your password (same as used for the app)
Click OK
I believe that you don’t have a Hybrid Solis inverter but got those who do.
FROM SOLIS APP
Select Plant
Select Device
Click the Inverter number
Click 3 dots (top right)
Select Control Inverter
Agree to T&C’s
Enter your password (same as used for the app)
Click OK
What make is the infrared panel in Charlotte's room? I cannot seem to find it looking back through your videos. Best Wishes
If you Google evpuzzle infrared, and show only videos all my videos about infrared seem to pop up
It's a "mirrorstone" 300w round mirror panel
@EVPuzzle Well that worked!
I use a custom automation in home assistant to set the Victron grid setpoint and mode based on multiple variables from all the connected systems. I don't have time to do it all manually. Oh to be retired 😉. Great information.
Also don't forget the round trip efficiency on the Victron system is on average around 70%. This needs to be factored in when dumping energy to the grid for profit.
@@peterclarke5323 have been estimating it at 80% - do you have any references for the 70% figure?
For charging and export ? Do you use the integration or just the native modbus calls ?
@@philippadobson1589 my system is battery only (Victron inverter + Pylontech batteries, no solar) I've use the data straight out of VRM. The efficiency depends on the inverter output demand. Therefore I suggest that is an average. I've done the calcs a couple of times and ended up with approx 70%. I'm happy for someone to prove different.
@peterclarke5323 the data I see misses some of the energy going out to the grid . Can't be bothered downloading the raw data which I understand is more accurate
My Octopus export just renewed at 15p p/kWh for another 12 months, competition from EON at 16p p/kWh might just keep the export payments up for now. Like you I can see the export payments dropping in the future if import drops or at least stabilizes. Realistically in the UK, even on amazingly sunny days we have a glut of solar then but those days are rare I'm sure. There are 20 houses on my road, we're the only one with solar, even if I'm hitting my export limit of 3.68kW I'm probably only covering the needs of the road on base load.
Well timed 👍 wish I could renew
I am still maximising my solar exports set to 100% and consume battery from 7p charge. As for every kw i export i get to import 2. I use node red script to track solar production levels and set victron grid setpoint to that number. But I start realising that I will also like you recently did need to expand my storage capacity. I buit seplos DIY batery kit with first battery and plan to do same for the second one as £1380 for 15KWH is making ROI better. Although second battery will not have same economic effects as first one. As we rearly use up all the battery before ev charge kiks in. Sometimes i notice that octopus will start ev charge early and i programed victron to start home battery charge when ev is charging. So starting earlier like 22:30 works well not completely draining batery to its limits.
I do similar catching extra slots to charge the battery a little extra
Like you I am on IOG and fully charging over night to 100% not 90% though - I thought it was better for balancing? At the moment I have set my grid setpoint to -1000kWh and even on cloudy days I still have battery to spare. I will be getting a heat pump installed later this winter - when that happens I may need all the battery power I can get, so I will go back to -50kWh. I am just trying to get home assistant running at the moment - a bit of a struggle tbh but I will get there.
I cant quite see why you are still using the Eddi to harvest solar at all - it is surely always better to heat your water over night - the savings must far outweigh any losses due to the tank loosing heat over the day - particularly in winter when any such losses just put heat into the house.
What efficiency do you assume for charging a battery then discharging to the grid? I have been assuming 80% which I thought was relatively cautious but others are suggesting it could be as low as 70% efficient. The store room where the Victron inverters live does get pretty warm when the batteries are charging - over 30deg last night!
When the eddi tops up it's using 0.2 kWh it's nothing and raises temp from 47 to 52 degrees , without reheating temp drops a bit . Heating more in the morning typically heats too much so is wasteful , my minimal solar boosts uses least energy overall and keeps water piping hot all day
Balancing doesn't need to occur daily but charging 100% daily will degrade more quickly
Measuring my round trip efficiency, 75% seems like a good average . I ignore efficiency and just look at the energy bills , if it's paying it's working .
@@EVPuzzle I thought the battery degradation was just if you left it at 100%? My battery is at 100% for less than an hour at night. It spends much more at 100% during a sunny day though which is something I want to look into.
@@philippadobson1589 pushing, squeezing electrons into a nearly full battery is bad which is why the charge rate reduces at the top , it's not good . Slower charge rate and not going full is best .
Take mine , pylontech say full is 53.5v but Victrin sets 100% at 52.4v for better longevity . Filling the battery every day adds some strain that's not needed as there's very little capacity at the top anyway
Yeah I’ve set mine to minus -50 as it provides a good buffer for high loads, I run a maintenance setting on my batteries every night so they go below 50/40% I run my battery at 3 DVCC to keep the charge low in summer
I just add an extra hour per month of overnight charging until December then reduce it the same untill march
I got my system in summer of 2022, mainly based on your videos - I have 3 US3000 pylontech batteries that I charge between 2 and 5 on Octopus flux, when you say "your victron batteries" are you referring to the pylontech stack you have? Reason I ask is you mention charging at max 70A, the most I have done till now is 54A - not enough during winter to fully charge in the 3 hour window of cheap(ish) electricity available. If you have charged at 70A the same batteries as me then I will up my charge rate to maximise the charge window ( i only need to go to 60A max btw)
Charging rate is inverter dependant of course . My 5000va inverter has 70a AC charging
@@EVPuzzle Many thanks for your reply, I have a Solis Hybrid 3.6 that can go up to 60A, I am holding off on switching to Agile for another month as the Export flux rate is now 27p at peak time!
Hi, what about your Solis unit settings ?
I dint touch them they're just solar
What are the max power ratings of your devices eg kettle, tumble dryer, oven, dishwasher? Have you seen any low power devices for sale?
Washer is 1.8kw
Oven 2.4kw but runs at 1200w when at temp . Just a cheap Hotpoint oven but wat better than the outgoing 2.8kw Smeg. Think it was only £239 so not a big expense
@EVPuzzle Cheers. I was thinking of things like a 1kw kettle, a single bar toaster. A microwave which uses half power on half power, rather than mine which uses full power then almost none switching between every 6 seconds or so, to achieve the illusion of half power. A dishwasher and washing machine that heat water at 1kw instead of 3kw.
These didn't matter when using grid only, but now relying on unreliable/ cloudy/winter solar, it makes sense to match up with appliances - even if one loses the convenience of fast boil etc.
If they stop my export tariff il have no option but buy a hot tub 😂win win 😂
Love that from you 👍👍
Interesting. At the moment I am going to keep going with the maximum export idea until it costs money. However September has been a very poor solar month....
Would it be avoidable all together to use peak rate, if you charge your batteries over night and just consume battery power during the day time, so not drawing from the grid until night cheap rate?
Yes I could turn the grid off during day but that turns solar off too
@@EVPuzzle Another reason why we went for a VE DC coupled MPPT system, it doesn't have this problem.
@@EverydayLife621 it's not a problem , I've never disconnected from the grid and can put the solar on my backup circuit if I want to
Does anyone have anything other than Victron with a "forced export" parameter set and working? Would love to know how you guys do this at 4 to 15kW scale.
I am off grid and put an extra 440v 8amp string on my inverter and bought an extra 14kWh of batteries, so I can boil the kettle this winter.
Givenergy , sunsynk , Tesla PW and many others will do forced export
If you get fit payments and an ev so cannot get export rates it may be a good idea to swap to tomato as you get better rates than octopus and don't have to go to the expense of getting a new intelligent car charger.
You can have Fit and export payments as I've explained in my previous videos .
Id never go with a small startup energy company now , after so many failed previously. Octopus rates are low and there's lots of extra value staying with them .
Octopus are the leaders for good reason
Yes but as you said companies could stop paying at the drop of the hat whereas fit is guaranteed for years also tomato may be small but if they fold just change again no problem,it is horses for courses for me and a lot of others it's a no brainer 😊
They win the award for having the least amount of white men on a website ever. Also very unclear as to what their tariffs cost. I agree with EV puzzle too risky
Shouldn’t hot water be maintained at or above 60C to avoid Legionella?
No just kills it faster at 60 or 70 etc
Looking forward to a smart ai that can just deal with all this fiddly decision making for me! All I need is a button if I need to force charge my EV or I need it full over night, AI can figure the rest out!
I see it as building a flexible system , components will be used differently maybe overtime but without them you won't have the same choices
That's what many of us have implemented, easy buttons and our own intelligence in automations
U say u buy at 7 and sell at 15. Apparently that's a win win situation.
I recently got my hands on a friend's yearly energy invoice here in Belgium.
He bought at 15 and sold at 5. Because he had a battery his yearly invoice was 80€.
Here in Belgium we pay taxes and usage tariffs for each kWh that we get or put in the network.
That money paid in usage of the network divided by the sum of all the energy received + injected comes up to 7 cents per kWh.
My conclusion is that he paid 2 cents per each kWh he injected.
How is it there in the UK? Do u guys pay for the usage of the network?
We have a thing called daily standing charges that cover the use of the infrastructure
@@EVPuzzle which u pay it whether u use it or not, or u pay accordingly with usage?
@@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq fixed regardless of usage
@@EVPuzzle that is much easier to calculate then.
If u can't be off-grid, then u have to pay. In that case since u already have to pay, selling can make sense.
Here in Belgium, I think it doesn't make sense at all.
I prefer to start electric heaters even if they aren't that efficient as heat pumps, then pay to put the energy on the grid once the home battery reaches 90 or 95%. If the room is warmer, then the thermostatic valves open less, using less gas heating. And after that let the mppt lower the charge it puts in the system.
@@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq it's fascinating how different countries manage their energy and implement schemes for payment . It makes no sense to charge for free energy given to the grid.
I can definitely imagine going off grid for much of the year if they ever started charging to export BUT id still have to pay the daily 50p charge which is going up lots atm
I find the biggest issue to be change. My system never stays the same for long enough to keep track of. Solar plus battery one year then added an Eddi, got HomeAssistant up and running then the tariff changed so Eddi was less useful, then the EV + Zappi, then the boiler starts leaking and finally (so far) today our heat-pump install began.
This weekend I will be learning how to integrate this with HomeAssistant to maximise our efficiency and get maximum comfort.
Constant change is a good thing… right?
Shouldn’t hot water be maintained at or above 60C to avoid Legionella?
No is the simple answer but ask online and you'll get 50 different answers
@@ItsMe-q6j bacteria will grow between 20.5°C and 50°C, the optimal temperature range for growth of leigonalla is 35°C and 46°C. The legionella bacteria cannot survive in water above 55°C for more than five or six hours and it's survival in temperatures above 55°C is shorter depending on the temperature. Instantaneous destruction of the bacteria occurs at a temperature of 70°C and above.