@@waymonfrench2077 Easiest way to put it is to turn them up until they definitely sound overdone, then turn them down just enough so they don't. -12 to -16 is usually my balance, with the AVR Subwoofer level at -11.5 or so. If your number is -19 or -8 on the sub, that's cool, there's no wrong answer. The "Adjusting Subs By Ear Hack" goes into more detail.
@@Subwoofer101 okey-dokey thank you sir! its good to know your back we missed you, hope everything alright your my favorite audio guy lol thats the reason I got dual pb3000s, I knew how much you liked them, these things kicks like a mule I think you said in one of your videos, oh the bass hack is awesome
I implemented most of your tips today and it did completely change how my subwoofer sounds. It was boomy before and I have a bunch of little kids and they kind of liked it but now it has a deep rumbling amazing sounding bass.
I appreciate that! Korn is a unique band for sure! "Right Now" is pretty awesome with deep bass. But generally speaking, they do a really good job producing a nice "thick" sound. Thanks for subscribing!
Now I understand why my engineer friend told me to half fill ported subs with Dacron or tontine? Also the port for a better sound quality ! I did the trick and less flutter, better bass at low frequency. He's an ex JBL production manager/engineer from UK ! Love your tutorials. Top info. Subbed and liked 👍 😊
Still enjoyed my SB16 Ultra (still need a second eventually) until I had to store it away for now. Took about a month of tweaking to get it just right for music and movies, then listened to my old Onkyo 12” sealed that I gave my parents and it’s amazing the huge difference it really is. I felt bad for them. They will be getting an SB4000 at some point. I do see a lot of other people run the 16 hot like -10, I run mine at -20 cause it’s fine if you tune it right.
It's hard to go back isn't it? Maybe your parents could start out ahead of the game and go with dual SB-2000 Pro's? Better yet, PB-2000 Pro's? Splitting the budget for duals, but also I know that "sound comfort", if there is such a thing, becomes more important as the years go by. If my sensitivity to sound has taught me anything, it's that sometimes sealed are uncomfortable, but ported are always more comfortable, all things equal. I can totally identify though, my mom had my old 301's, and I switched out some Prime Satellites for a little while because I wanted the 301's to compare, and her response was comical. I'd repeat it, but it was a little too colorful to make public. 😆 Suffice it to say, she noticed a difference and let me know promptly, without being asked. I didn't even make it a point for her to listen for a difference, just that I needed the 301's for my channel, and here are some speakers in the meantime. She didn't want the 301's back.
I have 2 jbl 2245h 18" drivers and I can't wait to put the in their respective boxes. I think I'll be trying to get 19Hz out of them but even with DSPing it might be difficult. I'd like to go lower but I don't think my room could house the gigantic boxes haha
😆 Yeah you'd probably get deeper bass from a pair of subs from my list for less than the lumber required to house those things! 25 cubic feet for the ported box! 😳 That's pretty big! How old are they?
@@Subwoofer101 They're from 1983. I bought them off a JBL fanatic who always took good care of them and refurbished them last year. Xmax is only ½ inch so they won't go loud AND very deep, but their sound characteristic is just phenomenal so I think I'll try to make it work! 😊😊
It's all true! I got a Monolith M215 and was underwhelmed for a couple weeks worth of adjusting things. With only one sub in my room the dead spots were insane with my first placement location. You could move literally one foot and the bass could go from overpowering to sounding like the sub turned off while playing a 40 hz tone. I finally found a better location but there are still dead spots toward the front of the room. Someday I hope to get a second sub. And the gain thing is so true too. I have mine set to +6 on the sub and LFE at +2 in the avr, with the "Bass" setting at +5. I'm really curious what others have to set the M215 at.
I have a 5.1.4 system in my living room, which is open to my kitchen and dining room; it's over 7k cu. ft. Aesthetics were my number one priority, so unfortunately, I had to rule out ported subs as they would protrude past the av cabinet. I went with dual Rythmik F18 hooked up to a miniDSP HD and EQ'd using REW. They play flat down to 10hz and peak at 16hz in room. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd get two more for increased tactile response and more headroom. When I retire, I'd like to build a dedicated home theater with dual or quad 18" ported subs. When I started my subwoofer shopping, I thought I was going to get dual SB-3000s, then it changed to the SB-4000, then the SB-16u, and finally the F18 after I discovered it puts out more bass for less money than the SB-16u. What's interesting is that ARC Genesis would not work with the subs turned past the 12 o'clock position. I got an error message to turn down the gain/volume knob. ARC Genesis then set my subs to +4db. I still haven't understood why it does that when most people say to adjust the gain so that room EQ sets your subs at -6 to -10db.
Awesome you're back. How is the Gain adjusted, at PEQ in the receiver, back of Sub, or at both locations. I have 2 top of the line 15 inch Klipsch Subs which are not that bad but I'm struggling to see if i have them set-up optimally. Also I have Yamaha's latest flagship receiver RX-A3080 (150 W 2Ch driven 8 ohm). Appreciate if you can touch this subject...
Too much to explain in a single comment. My bass hack videos linked in the video description will explain it all. Gain hack Distance hack Adjusting subs by ear Those are the big ones for your question. The Klipsch subs are borderline. Not a hot mess, but not a deep enough presentation to make the list, unless there has been some changes that I'm not aware of. Definitely heading in the right direction.
I use only vonyx 2 speaker setup right now. Club speakers , amplifier, club subs. Very deep bass. Crossover at 200hz on all. Think my neighbours don't like me sometimes when Denon at volume 60 😅 speakers and subs at +12 and great sound😅😅 speakers 3 way 2x15" subs, 2 subs 18".
Thanks for the recommendation for Denon X4500.I finally bought one but i am having a problem with the set up.When playing files from usb and youtube the volume was very low.I don’t hear any sound from speakers till i reach 30 volume and i have to crank it up to 70 before really feel the music.Later on , i was able to fix it by increasing the sound level under Input on the set up menu.The loudness increase tremendously when playing the usb files. Now i crank it up to only 50 and it is very loud.But low volume still exist when playing music on youtube music via the tv. My old Sony receiver never gave me this headache. My speakers were loud when playing both usb files and listening to music via youtube on tv.I wish you can help.Once again thanks very much.
Thanks, it's a good workhorse amp. You could possibly have input issues. You shouldn't have that much difference between sources. I would check with Denon and have them help you troubleshoot. Might be a simple adjustment, might need repair.
What do you mean? Dual PB 3000 is not normal? I run dual Paradigm Sub 25's! 15 inches each and 3000 RMS, 7000 peak. 3 inch travel with PBK room eq. Additional is Velodyne HGS18, only 1250 watts but evens out the rear of the room.
Glad ur back. Have a dilemma seen your review of pb-2000 pro and u listed has explosive bass thinking of running duals however pb3000 review sounded nice but dual 1699 vs 2699 are they 1k better ?
GREAT QUESTION. In audio, you have what is referred to as deminished returns. Is the difference noticeable? To me, yes. The PB-3000's will handle challenging content a little better, have more headroom, and more explosiveness. But is the $1,000 price difference worth it? That's some serious "eye of the beholder" stuff. I can run any subwoofer I want the RV project. I've had PB-4000s, PB-3000, PB-2000 original, VTF-15, and PB-2000 Pro. I could fit the PB-16 Ultras if I wanted. That would be epic. Heavy and huge though. The whole point of the RV is to do demonstrations. The PB-2000 originals sounded great, however I wanted a premium bass sound and impact. I built an entertainment center that can house either the PB-3000 or the PB-2000 Pro. The PB-2000 Pro's are more attainable, and aren't too far from the PB-3000. The PB-2000 Pro's are probably going to be the ones I stick with in there. So I don't know how much that helps you, but I will say that if you listen at very loud levels, the extra money is worth it. The PB-3000 is better in every regard.
Subwoofer 101 yeah bought single pb-3000 for now from outlet once funds become available again I’ll go duals. Didn’t want to get 2000 pros because the what if pb-3000s sound better would always be in my mind.
You’ve got me thinking about adding a second subwoofer to my system. I currently own the PB-2000. I noticed you have all your speakers lined up on the same wall. A lot of the research I’ve been doing suggests that dual subwoofers should be put in different locations in a room to help balance out room interaction. Have you experimented with this and what are your thoughts on this issue?
Sealed subs are sadly not something I can handle, but without a graph, I have no idea how they used their DSP. There are some subs that utilize DSP, but not to the extent of the subs on my list, in terms of dramatic depth of presentation. The in-room graph I did see showed that it had chops in extension, hitting below 10 hertz. www.avsforum.com/threads/does-anyone-here-own-a-kef-kf92-sub-yet.3123154/#lg=thread-3123154&slide=0 You can see my video on going deep vs sounding deep for more info, but it doesn't seem to have the upward trend as it goes deeper, like I personally prefer. That said, without my own measurements, I couldn't say definitively, and due to my problem with sealed subs, I may never know. I will say that it's nice to see subwoofer manufacturers get serious about going deep. I think the Kef 92 is at the very least a step in the right direction. Whether it's the sound I personally look for, sadly my condition makes it logistically prohibitive to find out. True for any manufacturer. Can't tolerate sealed subs. The graph looks similar to my graph of the SB-2000's. It's what I expect. Much like SVS sealed subs, I suspect that the ported subs on my list would be more impressive under 40 hertz. That's just my guess. For sure, it's not a basic, shallow bass subwoofer. I definitely couldn't say that. I really wish I didn't have this sensitivity. It's very limiting.
Yes, dual subs for sure, ported,👍 regardless of room size, more even bass, more headroom.. svs is great. Have 2 svs pc 2000, and 1 vs 2 playing is a huge difference
I really enjoy and learn a lot from your vids! Thx for that. Im about to buy a SVS 200 pro. Heard it today anbd it sounds great. And in the future i can buy another one. Should i buy 2 1000 instead?`I am tempted to test it, hahaha Thx Johnny
@@overkillonslash They are about 6.5 feet apart and 6 inches from the wall facing my seating position. Smooth even response throughout the room. Science Fiction and ACTION movies have deep BASS with VISCERAL impact! The floor is solid concrete with tile, padding and carpet so there are no vibration problems. You can feel the air pressurize in the room! The opening battle scene in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is INCREDIBLE!
Good to see you back. I purchased dual pb2000 pros because of your review a few months ago. Moved up from pb12 nsds and did not hear $1000 more in performance. However, these 2000s have grown on me. With the app on my phone has allowed me to make changes in a few swipes on my ipad. I also feel I'm future proofed with any changes in software that may come. Thanks again for all the great reviews you have done. Keep them coming.
No those towers wouldn’t and they are most likely under driven and too close to the wall. Dual subs are not necessary either. If one has the proper tower speakers “and” proper “power amp” vs cheap receiver then that is all one needs combined with a single subwoofer in a corner. It’s the power amp that’s the difference. Too many stick to a “receiver” because it’s convenient and has the sound processor. I’ve seen so many swap out speakers or changing subs or buying another when in reality had they just spent the money on the amplifier then so many speakers sound really good.
Extreme toe makes left to right imaging better. Easier to define sounds from left to right. Try it and listen to the Beatles "The End", and compare between extreme toe (left speaker pointed to the right of your listening position, and your right speaker pointed to the left of your listening position), then straightforward, and then pointed directly at you. While doing this, sit in different positions. What you'll notice is that the imaging from left to right stays more consistent with extreme toe in. I wouldn't keep it that way if I didn't like it better. But it's a flavor thing, personal preference. Not all that unique to these speakers, although speakers with poor off axis (not directly pointed at you) performance might not sound as good. As for amplification, using a good AVR with speakers set to small and a higher crossover and high quality dual subs is superior to no subs, and especially a single sub. A single sub will create cancellations, a dual sub setup allows you to hear all of the bass. The lower the frequency, the more power is used. So running your speakers' crossover to at least 80 hertz and small requires MUCH less power from your AVR. With a lower powered AVR, when I set the speakers to large (full range, rather than filtering off below 80 hertz), the AVR lights would actually dim when the bass hit hard. That was on an old x2000, not particularly powerful. The same AVR, when set to small on the towers and crossed over at 90 hertz, used a LOT less power, never dimmed, and never sounded strained. Ran a LOT cooler too. Better longevity. Basically, setting speakers to small, running a higher crossover, and using dual, good quality, deep bass subs, makes external amplification pretty much unnecessary. Having 500 watts of power on hand for 25 hertz sounds amazing. 100 watts of power at 3,000 hertz would blow your eardrums out. Very unpleasant. I'm a fan of external amplification, it's just how it's utilized. Instead of using an external amplifier for things that are unnecessary, such as all of your content above 90 hertz, I instead use the amplification in subwoofers for everything under that. That is when having more power really makes a noticeable difference. Having external amplification for the main speakers when crossed over, it was hard to notice honestly. But all things equal, more power for the subwoofers is almost universally better. More realism. The Ultra Towers do sound excellent by themselves. But they do sound best when paired with dual subwoofers, set to small, and I personally set them at 90 hertz crossover. Some people might think that they don't add to the bass like that, but they definitely do. Your main speakers still get signal all the way down to 20 hertz, I've heard that myself by simply turning off the subwoofers. It's just not as powerful as set to large. Where you set your crossover for your main speakers is basically a hard limit for the subwoofer, not a hard limit for your speakers. Long explanation, but I wanted to be clear.
@@Subwoofer101 appreciate the explanation but already understood all before hand. The way your system is presented with your room size and tower placement all seems good. Also the same with the receiver you have and the dual sub and preferential listening areas. My preference is basically to go with better amplification for the mains and have good bass drivers for the floor standing speakers. I don’t feel it’s necessary or beneficial to put a crossover on them. They play best at full range. I do agree though that when one has lower powered receiver then yes best to chop off the low frequencies. One last note, the soundstage and imaging is really opened up when pulling the towers away from the wall. Toe in is not as strongly needed but if the room isn’t very deep then it’s not that simple pulling speakers away from the wall. I have a fairly deep living room. High ceiling too. I also have a center channel aimed upward behind my flat screen. It raises the sound stage. I mainly listened to music for this type of two or three channel listening. I’m sitting in the center also. For those who want more overall sound for a bigger listening audience your set up is great. 👍. This is especially true for home theatre.
@Subwoofer 101 Thank You so much for that detailed and informative reply. I am a firm believer of dual subs as well. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 👋
We normally don't listen to movies at higher volumes in our 14' x 15' x 8' ceiling room with hardwood floors. Planning to get a Sennheiser Ambeo, what would your recommendation be on either an REL HT-1003 or a HSU ULS-15 MK 2? Might not even need a sub truthfully as the Ambeo goes down to 30Hz...
Great hack. People don't get the 80 or higher crossover. For a lot of people it's hard to have expensive towers ad not use the Avr serting in "large". In my opinion, the only reason to have towers is aesthetics.
SVS will have a deeper sound, whether ported or sealed. Ported SVS will sound the deepest, while sealed SVS will "go" deeper, in the inaudible range. I prefer the ported. The Qb12 doesn't have DSP as far as I can tell, and not enough power for true low end performance. SVS has more relative output under 40 hertz, and that's what sets them apart from the masses. It makes all the difference in the world.
Hi sr. I hope you got a great Thanksgiving. Sorry for bother you, can I send you a file of my measurement using rew and umik 1? I don't know if the graphic is ok or I have to do more measurements
Hello, I hear u talking allot about Deep bass Subwoofers I already ordered the Svs SB16-ultra. What do thinks about this one. its a sealed one Because de Pb Is way to big. Iike to hear from you please.
I know your comment, and your question is old But you will be very happy with the SB 1600 ultra it’s incredibly accurate and awesome I was able to get two of them, and I am in the process of calibrating and integrating them into my surroundsound set up. Can’t wait to watch old movies. Ported subwoofers are not for me. I tried them. I didn’t like the port noise I didn’t like the size I didn’t like the extra on necessary pressure in my moving watching environment. I also didn’t like the port noise and lingering bass with sound like Blowed it bass
Hi from portugal! Deep subs or "normal" subs regardless the price there is a big difference but in order to take full pleasure isolation of the room must be right...
You were speaking of gain. Just cranking up the gain as you put it. I’m always really concerned about sending a clipped signal to it. In my opinion I think that use of an oscilloscope would be the proper way to say the gain or gains. Like I said it is my opinion but I do agree with dual subs for sure.
100 percent true!!!! Audyssey sets my dual pb-1000 to -12db . I have to adjust to -6db to -3db to make em come to life!!!!!!! Also Audyssey sets my towers to full range which start to roll off at 45hz or so..*dual 8s in each tower* they crossover perfectly at 80hz. Point being after first running Audyssey and turn on music my subs are completely off!!!!! OFF!!! I trust my ears mostly, but REW confirms what i hear.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks for reading ! I have a Denon avr 70 watts per channel 7.2 and i love it. however, it's not very "Potent" as you would call it. I learned that i get better dynamics across the entire bass frequency range which extends up to around 250hz, when i let my pb 1000s handled all the bass and crossover @ 250hz. I've tried doing this with a few other cheaper subs and it was way too boomy and sloppy. Of course this only works when you have high quality subs setup right next to your mains. Thought i would mention it cause this is the main reason i kept my pb 1000s sure they hit 10-15hz deeper, but i can play them 150hz higher also.
If Audyssey is setting your subs at -12dB then you have the gain turned up too high. -12 is the max adjustment, so for all you know it would have set them even lower if it could have. You should turn down the gain until you get a setting of -11 or higher. Then bump them up to your preference from there.
The way I routinely set up subs bottoms out the AVR subwoofer level to -12.0 after room correction, and it has no measurable negative effect on the performance. Quite the opposite, it's the foundation of my Gain Hack. It doesn't really matter whether you get a result of -6.5 or -12.0 it's what you do after room correction that matters most. But if it makes you more comfortable, go with what you prefer. Having done it both ways myself, I will keep doing it as I outlined in my Gain Hack Video.
@@konior21 if I end up at -3db like I wrote how is my gain too high? But I've tried it a thousand ways. In the end I like what sounds the best. Some times I run my towers crossed over at 250hz for heavy metal cause my receivers amp can't keep up.
Big Thank you for your explanations, just got on home cinema adventures, got wharfadales quartz and dual sub elac s10.2, deep bass is far far away from me
@@Subwoofer101 first i must take care of the wife problem, having big squares in the room is a deep problem for her loool... the PB subs would be fine but here in europe is just way more expensive. Thank you brother!
I fully understand, my wife was very sad to see my little Supercube returned, in favor of a very large VTF-15. She's as much of a deep bass fan as I am, she no longer cares about the subwoofer size, she LOVED the PB-16 Ultras and wants them back. Can't say that you'll have the same response from your wife, but I rarely get a negative response to the sound. It's always different, and better than people anticipate.
@@Subwoofer101 yeah well the sound just how i like to say is a very personal felling, it may sound good for me but for another may not... i guess i will have one year of dish whashing to compensate...
Certainly can't say JL is low quality, but I can't tolerate sealed subs, not SVS, nor any other brand. Post Concussion Syndrome is the likely culprit. From the graphs and feedback, I believe that sealed SVS subs sound deeper than JL, and you can see my video on "going deep vs sounding deep". Since SVS ported subwoofers tend to measurably sound deeper than SVS sealed subs, my assumption would be that ported SVS subwoofers will most likely have more relative deep bass in the audible spectrum. The bottom end is audibly bottomless and powerful at the lowest frequencies you can hear. Ported might be bigger and more expensive, but I strongly prefer them.
Ported subwoofer issues that I do not like, and I stay away from ported subwoofers I cannot stand the port noise, the air pressure coming out of the ports can’t stand that specially if you have put Poured it, subwoofers in a small room that means you’re closer to the ports and you can hear and feel that noise and pressure Another issue I have with port it subwoofers is that most of the times they are larger. Don’t care for that. Specially, if you don’t have the space. Another issue is base accuracy port it subwoofers to me bass accuracy is not good. The bass sound like it’s bleeding and it’s lingering. It’s what I call. Bloated base I can’t stand that. If I’m watching a movie and there’s an explosion, I want to hear the explosion sound and then disposing sound stops ported subwoofers the base continues and lingers in like it’s bleeding and blowed it. I don’t like that even in music the base hits it really doesn’t bleed or State blowed it in music I have the sealed 3000 the sealed 4000 and the awesome sealed 1600 ultra duels and they rock and I’m satisfied Took me a while to get to this point, but I’m very thankful that I have the set up that I have in my game room and in my movie watching room
Lots to cover there, like the fact that I've only heard port noise in a few, extremely hard hitting scenes. On the order of ridiculousness. Generally, the subwoofers I like are going to be VERY good at avoiding port noise. Ported vs Sealed tends to be a preference. Obviously, sealed subs have a strong following. As long as you're happy, that's the key.
EQ 1? That looks to have respectable numbers, should be a decent rise in output as you go deeper with room gain. Thanks for bringing this sub to my attention!
@@Subwoofer101 Their 1723 2v subs have dual opposing drivers, but alas they are too big for my space....plus I wasn't too keen on paying 5 grand for two subs, plus sales tax, plus shipping, plus import duty.
Yeah, another consideration for my list is value. That might be a problem. Would I separate myself from my cash to make it happen. That's the ultimate test.
Hey you all i am from the netherlands, i was that guy that thout i had a good sub it was 400 euro s and it was a magnat ,then this year with corrona shit ,and no holiday, i though i spent my money on a new home theater system, so from magnat to svs ultra towers and the pb 3000 (my center and surround s are (FOR NOW)😏 stil magnat s ), when i was instaling the pb 3000 after audyssey i thout hey where is my bass ,then i turn the subgain itself up to -10 and the hole fucking room begine to shake and i was like whooo this is so awsome, so conclusion there is boom and there is bass ,a prefer the bass the real one ,a nou no what real bas is 💪
Running a single PB-3000? Trust me, get another before any other upgrade. You'll have to reduce the gain by 5-6 dB, so -15 on each sub and you'll be even more impressed. 💪💪💪💪
@@Subwoofer101 i now that was the difficalt thing i wanted the new voicecoil💪wittch is slaming by the way as you no , but i no i have to get a second one before they run out ,😀but trust me that will be done ,as a love these lowwslamming dry ,insane housshaking shit
It's addictive! Always looking for new content to feed them. My Spotify account is public and you can see everything I listen to. Wide variety of music.
Your English is better than many in the USA! I'm talking about those with English as their only language too! 😆 I joke, but there are plenty of people here who didn't much care for English class in school. Myself included! So I think it's the way it was taught, rather than the subject. There are some great English teachers, no doubt, but there are some "not so great" ones too. I love and respect teachers as a general rule, don't get me wrong, but English class was what I struggled with most. A few teachers were great, but some were just insufferable. 🥱 No problem understanding you though! I had a supervisor years ago named Udo, really great guy. He went by "Dutch" as a nickname.
Been there, done that. I'd rather have 2 more powerful subwoofers, rather than 4 less powerful subwoofers. 4 subs are a little smoother, but I feel like you get more bang for your buck with increased power and explosiveness. Going from 2 to 4 does improve impact, not like stepping up in power. The one exception for me would be for music only, where impact is less important. Then 4 subs would make sense. Have top tier subs? 4 would be great there too.
Running two subs one 12 inch 200 watt & 10 inch 150 watt separately from each other 10 inch infront 12 inch in the rooms corner. Yes the the base is clean tight and very concise deep base .. I'm puzzled to some of your comments on why runnig different subs is not ok? Yes I do run lots of gain, you need to spend much time setting up to get it all 100% It's all about setup and tuning of your amp Hz cut off speaker placement 101 120hz max low frequencies sent much to learn always everyone's opinion is welcome ... you need to of the same subs is just rubbish, having two different sizes tuned allows for a much-needed balanced low frequency response especially in explosions and car door closing thud sounds or say a kick drum to base string plucking odd shaped environments require different measures of sub air and volumecontrol this where I've arrived for the time being... Buddy your given some good basic advice but lack so many very important fundamentals in setup & tuning like saying you have run two identical subs is just ridiculous experience with tuning a system comes with time and experimental setups 🤔😇
Something tells me that you: A) Aren't working with deep bass subwoofers. B) You haven't measured the differences in response as I have, with several different subs. It was clear as day that the bigger the difference between the subs, the more problems you encounter. Are mixed subs considerably better than a single? Yep, even when I mixed a Bose "bass module" to a Onkyo 10" "Home theater in a box" (budget) sub. Neither were worth writing home about, but better than a single for sure. Fast forward to two of my favorite subs, the PB-2000 and PB-16 Ultra. I had dual 2000's as seen in the video, but only a single PB-16 Ultra, also seen in the video. I could not get the second 16 Ultra until months later. I tried every possible way to get them to play nice together, but there was always a loss of clarity, and cancellations where they didn't make sense. Honestly, I was less than impressed with the 16 Ultra. I turned it off, in favor of the MATCHING PB-2000's. They sounded better, AND measured better. Fewer cancellations. Tight. Proper. Later, I paired the PB-16 Ultra with a VTF-15, much closer in driver size, but considerably less power, and a slightly different response curve. It was better than mixed with the "12 inch PB-2000's, but still not quite as clean as the matched PB-2000's. Didn't feel like 1,500 watts RMS either. Sounded "soft" for that much wattage, more in line with what I would expect from dual VTF-15's mk1 (350 watts, before the upgrade to 600 watts). It was strange, and I was still unimpressed with the PB-16 Ultra. I refrained from doing a review, because I thought there was a chance that matching PB-16 Ultras might change my mind. Then I finally got the second one in. The difference was NIGHT AND DAY. That softer feeling was GONE, and instead I was being hit by a ton of bricks during certain scenes. I called it a spleen massage. Most explosive bass I've heard yet. Until I had the second matching PB-16 Ultra, there just wasn't a spleen massage. The difference in clarity, impact, the tightness of said impact, the better blending of the identical subs was undeniable. I went from being somewhat disappointed and underwhelmed with the PB-16 Ultra, to it being my absolute favorite subwoofer to date, cost aside. I'm not sure where you think my experience is flawed, but it was measurable and noticed by others who are nowhere near as into home theater as I am. I didn't pull this theory out of the air, I stumbled upon it, and it was simply impossible to deny. My fundamentals are sound, even if they aren't mainstream, conventional wisdom.
I used to run 2 high quality Velodyne's, one was 15" at 1250 watts and the other was 12" at 850 watts and placed them similar to yours and did all sorts of tuning and they sounded really good. Then 2 identical SVS PB3000 and they were on an entirely different level Before I even tuned them. I would even say a single SVS was better than mismatched duals, but SVS is deep base but Velodyne makes a very quality product. No amount of tuning or configurations will perform as well as matched subs
Thanks for backing me up Shane, that's relevant experience, and totally in line with my own experience. Velodyne did some great things for subs, and I respect and appreciate their history and contributions to subwoofers as a whole. Not on the same level though. Thanks for your response!
@@Subwoofer101 I'm sure you're are correct with $1600 to $2000 subs mate 100% , I don't have sponsors unfortunately I run one Wharfedale 10" 150 watt & my trustee 12" 250 watt Sasui running Jamo 707 towers paradigm center channel surrounds are Jbl monitors Amp ms Denon avr-x1200w as you can see not in your league I buy what filters diwn into the second hand market. I only dream of the gear you men speak of lol anyway I'm doing my best I hear you about thd subs though, power watt wuse would epic as my room is 6m x 8m with cathedral ceilings I live in Australia prices for quality for digital entertainment is almost 60% more then you guys spend. Any help is always appreciated
![I Accidentally killed a subwoofer while testing it | The House was SHAKING!! | [4K HDR]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L_U9aSCOvP0/mqdefault.jpg)
I almost returned my Monolith 15 because I didn't have the gain high enough.
Imagine what you would have missed out on! Thanks for backing me up!!
@@Subwoofer101 I have pb3000 dual how hi can you go on the sub gain
@@waymonfrench2077 Easiest way to put it is to turn them up until they definitely sound overdone, then turn them down just enough so they don't.
-12 to -16 is usually my balance, with the AVR Subwoofer level at -11.5 or so.
If your number is -19 or -8 on the sub, that's cool, there's no wrong answer.
The "Adjusting Subs By Ear Hack" goes into more detail.
@@Subwoofer101 okey-dokey thank you sir! its good to know your back we missed you, hope everything alright your my favorite audio guy lol thats the reason I got dual pb3000s, I knew how much you liked them, these things kicks like a mule I think you said in one of your videos, oh the bass hack is awesome
Thanks so much! I'm glad you're enjoying those subs, they do have phenomenal kick!
I’m Happy to see you posting on here big dawg. Been a while but we’re glad you’re back. Thanks for all the knowledge.
Thank you!
I implemented most of your tips today and it did completely change how my subwoofer sounds. It was boomy before and I have a bunch of little kids and they kind of liked it but now it has a deep rumbling amazing sounding bass.
Deep bass makes absolutely all the difference. I live for deep bass subs. Money well spent
Agreed!
Great video and info. Buying a house in the spring and trying to find one with a dedicated room. Going to do a full PSA setup with dual TV1812s
Nice
Oh wow you mentioned Korn, now I've got to subscribe. Sorry to hear about the health issues, all the best.
I appreciate that! Korn is a unique band for sure! "Right Now" is pretty awesome with deep bass.
But generally speaking, they do a really good job producing a nice "thick" sound.
Thanks for subscribing!
What's a guy like you doing in a place like this? nvm, it's probably the bass...
So glad to see you're back!
Thank you! Glad to be uploading again!
The sun setting over a 12" subwoofer, now that is therapy!
Indeed!
Now I understand why my engineer friend told me to half fill ported subs with Dacron or tontine? Also the port for a better sound quality ! I did the trick and less flutter, better bass at low frequency. He's an ex JBL production manager/engineer from UK ! Love your tutorials. Top info. Subbed and liked 👍 😊
I definetley agree with 2subs rather than 1. Even if ones good and ones shitty, still better than only 1.
Still enjoyed my SB16 Ultra (still need a second eventually) until I had to store it away for now. Took about a month of tweaking to get it just right for music and movies, then listened to my old Onkyo 12” sealed that I gave my parents and it’s amazing the huge difference it really is. I felt bad for them. They will be getting an SB4000 at some point. I do see a lot of other people run the 16 hot like -10, I run mine at -20 cause it’s fine if you tune it right.
It's hard to go back isn't it?
Maybe your parents could start out ahead of the game and go with dual SB-2000 Pro's?
Better yet, PB-2000 Pro's?
Splitting the budget for duals, but also I know that "sound comfort", if there is such a thing, becomes more important as the years go by.
If my sensitivity to sound has taught me anything, it's that sometimes sealed are uncomfortable, but ported are always more comfortable, all things equal.
I can totally identify though, my mom had my old 301's, and I switched out some Prime Satellites for a little while because I wanted the 301's to compare, and her response was comical.
I'd repeat it, but it was a little too colorful to make public. 😆
Suffice it to say, she noticed a difference and let me know promptly, without being asked.
I didn't even make it a point for her to listen for a difference, just that I needed the 301's for my channel, and here are some speakers in the meantime.
She didn't want the 301's back.
Subwoofer 101 duel SB-2000 Pro might be in the cards but it’s a corner oriented setup (not my choice) do floor space is kinda goofy
I have 2 jbl 2245h 18" drivers and I can't wait to put the in their respective boxes. I think I'll be trying to get 19Hz out of them but even with DSPing it might be difficult. I'd like to go lower but I don't think my room could house the gigantic boxes haha
😆 Yeah you'd probably get deeper bass from a pair of subs from my list for less than the lumber required to house those things!
25 cubic feet for the ported box! 😳 That's pretty big! How old are they?
@@Subwoofer101 They're from 1983. I bought them off a JBL fanatic who always took good care of them and refurbished them last year. Xmax is only ½ inch so they won't go loud AND very deep, but their sound characteristic is just phenomenal so I think I'll try to make it work! 😊😊
It's all true! I got a Monolith M215 and was underwhelmed for a couple weeks worth of adjusting things. With only one sub in my room the dead spots were insane with my first placement location. You could move literally one foot and the bass could go from overpowering to sounding like the sub turned off while playing a 40 hz tone. I finally found a better location but there are still dead spots toward the front of the room. Someday I hope to get a second sub. And the gain thing is so true too. I have mine set to +6 on the sub and LFE at +2 in the avr, with the "Bass" setting at +5. I'm really curious what others have to set the M215 at.
I have a 5.1.4 system in my living room, which is open to my kitchen and dining room; it's over 7k cu. ft. Aesthetics were my number one priority, so unfortunately, I had to rule out ported subs as they would protrude past the av cabinet. I went with dual Rythmik F18 hooked up to a miniDSP HD and EQ'd using REW. They play flat down to 10hz and peak at 16hz in room. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd get two more for increased tactile response and more headroom. When I retire, I'd like to build a dedicated home theater with dual or quad 18" ported subs. When I started my subwoofer shopping, I thought I was going to get dual SB-3000s, then it changed to the SB-4000, then the SB-16u, and finally the F18 after I discovered it puts out more bass for less money than the SB-16u.
What's interesting is that ARC Genesis would not work with the subs turned past the 12 o'clock position. I got an error message to turn down the gain/volume knob. ARC Genesis then set my subs to +4db. I still haven't understood why it does that when most people say to adjust the gain so that room EQ sets your subs at -6 to -10db.
Awesome you're back. How is the Gain adjusted, at PEQ in the receiver, back of Sub, or at both locations. I have 2 top of the line 15 inch Klipsch Subs which are not that bad but I'm struggling to see if i have them set-up optimally. Also I have Yamaha's latest flagship receiver RX-A3080 (150 W 2Ch driven 8 ohm). Appreciate if you can touch this subject...
Too much to explain in a single comment.
My bass hack videos linked in the video description will explain it all.
Gain hack
Distance hack
Adjusting subs by ear
Those are the big ones for your question.
The Klipsch subs are borderline. Not a hot mess, but not a deep enough presentation to make the list, unless there has been some changes that I'm not aware of. Definitely heading in the right direction.
Is the klipsch spl-150 a deep bass sub? Love all your videos btw! Keep it up !
I use only vonyx 2 speaker setup right now. Club speakers , amplifier, club subs. Very deep bass. Crossover at 200hz on all. Think my neighbours don't like me sometimes when Denon at volume 60 😅 speakers and subs at +12 and great sound😅😅 speakers 3 way 2x15" subs, 2 subs 18".
Thanks for the recommendation for Denon X4500.I finally bought one but i am having a problem with the set up.When playing files from usb and youtube the volume was very low.I don’t hear any sound from speakers till i reach 30 volume and i have to crank it up to 70 before really feel the music.Later on , i was able to fix it by increasing the sound level under Input on the set up menu.The loudness increase tremendously when playing the usb files. Now i crank it up to only 50 and it is very loud.But low volume still exist when playing music on youtube music via the tv. My old Sony receiver never gave me this headache. My speakers were loud when playing both usb files and listening to music via youtube on tv.I wish you can help.Once again thanks very much.
Thanks, it's a good workhorse amp.
You could possibly have input issues. You shouldn't have that much difference between sources. I would check with Denon and have them help you troubleshoot. Might be a simple adjustment, might need repair.
What do you mean? Dual PB 3000 is not normal? I run dual Paradigm Sub 25's! 15 inches each and 3000 RMS, 7000 peak. 3 inch travel with PBK room eq. Additional is Velodyne HGS18, only 1250 watts but evens out the rear of the room.
Glad ur back. Have a dilemma seen your review of pb-2000 pro and u listed has explosive bass thinking of running duals however pb3000 review sounded nice but dual 1699 vs 2699 are they 1k better ?
GREAT QUESTION.
In audio, you have what is referred to as deminished returns.
Is the difference noticeable? To me, yes.
The PB-3000's will handle challenging content a little better, have more headroom, and more explosiveness.
But is the $1,000 price difference worth it?
That's some serious "eye of the beholder" stuff.
I can run any subwoofer I want the RV project. I've had PB-4000s, PB-3000, PB-2000 original, VTF-15, and PB-2000 Pro.
I could fit the PB-16 Ultras if I wanted. That would be epic. Heavy and huge though.
The whole point of the RV is to do demonstrations.
The PB-2000 originals sounded great, however I wanted a premium bass sound and impact.
I built an entertainment center that can house either the PB-3000 or the PB-2000 Pro.
The PB-2000 Pro's are more attainable, and aren't too far from the PB-3000. The PB-2000 Pro's are probably going to be the ones I stick with in there.
So I don't know how much that helps you, but I will say that if you listen at very loud levels, the extra money is worth it.
The PB-3000 is better in every regard.
Subwoofer 101 yeah bought single pb-3000 for now from outlet once funds become available again I’ll go duals. Didn’t want to get 2000 pros because the what if pb-3000s sound better would always be in my mind.
You’ve got me thinking about adding a second subwoofer to my system. I currently own the PB-2000. I noticed you have all your speakers lined up on the same wall. A lot of the research I’ve been doing suggests that dual subwoofers should be put in different locations in a room to help balance out room interaction. Have you experimented with this and what are your thoughts on this issue?
I have a def tech supercube reference and trinity and wanna upgrade. Thanks for the info.
See my list for sure. Only one not updated, but definitely belongs, is the PB-2000 Pro. You can see my review.
What do you think about the KEF KF92 going down to 11 hz ?
Sealed subs are sadly not something I can handle, but without a graph, I have no idea how they used their DSP.
There are some subs that utilize DSP, but not to the extent of the subs on my list, in terms of dramatic depth of presentation.
The in-room graph I did see showed that it had chops in extension, hitting below 10 hertz.
www.avsforum.com/threads/does-anyone-here-own-a-kef-kf92-sub-yet.3123154/#lg=thread-3123154&slide=0
You can see my video on going deep vs sounding deep for more info, but it doesn't seem to have the upward trend as it goes deeper, like I personally prefer.
That said, without my own measurements, I couldn't say definitively, and due to my problem with sealed subs, I may never know.
I will say that it's nice to see subwoofer manufacturers get serious about going deep.
I think the Kef 92 is at the very least a step in the right direction.
Whether it's the sound I personally look for, sadly my condition makes it logistically prohibitive to find out. True for any manufacturer. Can't tolerate sealed subs.
The graph looks similar to my graph of the SB-2000's. It's what I expect.
Much like SVS sealed subs, I suspect that the ported subs on my list would be more impressive under 40 hertz.
That's just my guess. For sure, it's not a basic, shallow bass subwoofer. I definitely couldn't say that.
I really wish I didn't have this sensitivity. It's very limiting.
Glad your back!
Have tried dspeaker or something like it. For me it gave me a hole new subwoofer.
Do you recommend a dual pair of SVS PB-1000 PRO'S fie a dedicated 12x12 room?
Yes, dual subs for sure, ported,👍 regardless of room size, more even bass, more headroom.. svs is great. Have 2 svs pc 2000, and 1 vs 2 playing is a huge difference
I really enjoy and learn a lot from your vids! Thx for that. Im about to buy a SVS 200 pro. Heard it today anbd it sounds great. And in the future i can buy another one. Should i buy 2 1000 instead?`I am tempted to test it, hahaha
Thx
Johnny
If you plan to get another Pro relatively soon (few months) then a single is ok. A year? Dual PB-1000s.
@@Subwoofer101 hahaha fuuuuck. I allways end up with the expensive solution.... But, i love it haha
I'm using DUAL SVS SB-16 ULTRA, no problem with DEEP BASS. $4,000
Go big or go home! Those are fantastic subs. Monster 8" voice coil!
Where do you place each in the room?
@@overkillonslash They are about 6.5 feet apart and 6 inches from the wall facing my seating position. Smooth even response throughout the room. Science Fiction and ACTION movies have deep BASS with VISCERAL impact! The floor is solid concrete with tile, padding and carpet so there are no vibration problems. You can feel the air pressurize in the room! The opening battle scene in SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is INCREDIBLE!
@@hitechburg so they are sitting between your main speakers?
@@overkillonslash Sometimes they are sometimes they're not.
Good to see you back. I purchased dual pb2000 pros because of your review a few months ago. Moved up from pb12 nsds and did not hear $1000 more in performance. However, these 2000s have grown on me. With the app on my phone has allowed me to make changes in a few swipes on my ipad. I also feel I'm future proofed with any changes in software that may come. Thanks again for all the great reviews you have done. Keep them coming.
Whats your feedback on these 2000pros
You just wasted your time and money you should purchased Pb16 ultra
Can u feel the bass with ur duals pros?
@@mexisp2 he should if he sets it for that i had dual pb2000 pros and they dig deep they seem real close to the 3000s
I have a 15” and an 18” Digital Drive series by Velodyne. What do you think about those?
I did your bass hacks my definitive sc8000 subs sound explosive I definitely agree on the gain my subs used to weak and now there explosive
Right on!!
Looks like the Ultra Towers are massively towed in. Do they sound best like that? Was looking into getting a pair..
No those towers wouldn’t and they are most likely under driven and too close to the wall.
Dual subs are not necessary either.
If one has the proper tower speakers “and” proper “power amp” vs cheap receiver then that is all one needs combined with a single subwoofer in a corner.
It’s the power amp that’s the difference. Too many stick to a “receiver” because it’s convenient and has the sound processor.
I’ve seen so many swap out speakers or changing subs or buying another when in reality had they just spent the money on the amplifier then so many speakers sound really good.
Extreme toe makes left to right imaging better. Easier to define sounds from left to right.
Try it and listen to the Beatles "The End", and compare between extreme toe (left speaker pointed to the right of your listening position, and your right speaker pointed to the left of your listening position), then straightforward, and then pointed directly at you.
While doing this, sit in different positions. What you'll notice is that the imaging from left to right stays more consistent with extreme toe in.
I wouldn't keep it that way if I didn't like it better. But it's a flavor thing, personal preference.
Not all that unique to these speakers, although speakers with poor off axis (not directly pointed at you) performance might not sound as good.
As for amplification, using a good AVR with speakers set to small and a higher crossover and high quality dual subs is superior to no subs, and especially a single sub.
A single sub will create cancellations, a dual sub setup allows you to hear all of the bass.
The lower the frequency, the more power is used.
So running your speakers' crossover to at least 80 hertz and small requires MUCH less power from your AVR.
With a lower powered AVR, when I set the speakers to large (full range, rather than filtering off below 80 hertz), the AVR lights would actually dim when the bass hit hard.
That was on an old x2000, not particularly powerful.
The same AVR, when set to small on the towers and crossed over at 90 hertz, used a LOT less power, never dimmed, and never sounded strained. Ran a LOT cooler too. Better longevity.
Basically, setting speakers to small, running a higher crossover, and using dual, good quality, deep bass subs, makes external amplification pretty much unnecessary.
Having 500 watts of power on hand for 25 hertz sounds amazing.
100 watts of power at 3,000 hertz would blow your eardrums out. Very unpleasant.
I'm a fan of external amplification, it's just how it's utilized.
Instead of using an external amplifier for things that are unnecessary, such as all of your content above 90 hertz, I instead use the amplification in subwoofers for everything under that.
That is when having more power really makes a noticeable difference.
Having external amplification for the main speakers when crossed over, it was hard to notice honestly.
But all things equal, more power for the subwoofers is almost universally better. More realism.
The Ultra Towers do sound excellent by themselves.
But they do sound best when paired with dual subwoofers, set to small, and I personally set them at 90 hertz crossover.
Some people might think that they don't add to the bass like that, but they definitely do.
Your main speakers still get signal all the way down to 20 hertz, I've heard that myself by simply turning off the subwoofers. It's just not as powerful as set to large.
Where you set your crossover for your main speakers is basically a hard limit for the subwoofer, not a hard limit for your speakers.
Long explanation, but I wanted to be clear.
@@Subwoofer101 appreciate the explanation but already understood all before hand.
The way your system is presented with your room size and tower placement all seems good.
Also the same with the receiver you have and the dual sub and preferential listening areas.
My preference is basically to go with better amplification for the mains and have good bass drivers for the floor standing speakers. I don’t feel it’s necessary or beneficial to put a crossover on them. They play best at full range. I do agree though that when one has lower powered receiver then yes best to chop off the low frequencies.
One last note, the soundstage and imaging is really opened up when pulling the towers away from the wall. Toe in is not as strongly needed but if the room isn’t very deep then it’s not that simple pulling speakers away from the wall.
I have a fairly deep living room. High ceiling too.
I also have a center channel aimed upward behind my flat screen. It raises the sound stage. I mainly listened to music for this type of two or three channel listening. I’m sitting in the center also.
For those who want more overall sound for a bigger listening audience your set up is great. 👍. This is especially true for home theatre.
@Subwoofer 101 Thank You so much for that detailed and informative reply. I am a firm believer of dual subs as well. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 👋
We normally don't listen to movies at higher volumes in our 14' x 15' x 8' ceiling room with hardwood floors. Planning to get a Sennheiser Ambeo, what would your recommendation be on either an REL HT-1003 or a HSU ULS-15 MK 2? Might not even need a sub truthfully as the Ambeo goes down to 30Hz...
I think a subwoofer would still be crucial to have. There are a lot of movies that have frequencies in the 20hz range, some even in the teens.
Great hack.
People don't get the 80 or higher crossover.
For a lot of people it's hard to have expensive towers ad not use the Avr serting in "large".
In my opinion, the only reason to have towers is aesthetics.
They can still add to the bass in a nice way, but towers are less important with quality subwoofers.
Hi, My bedroom is 4mtrs by 4mtrs. Is the dual pb3000's too big for my room? Or shall I just go with dual pb 2000 pro's?
What do you think about Q accoustic Qb12 is it comparable to any SVS sub
SVS will have a deeper sound, whether ported or sealed. Ported SVS will sound the deepest, while sealed SVS will "go" deeper, in the inaudible range. I prefer the ported.
The Qb12 doesn't have DSP as far as I can tell, and not enough power for true low end performance.
SVS has more relative output under 40 hertz, and that's what sets them apart from the masses.
It makes all the difference in the world.
Hi sr. I hope you got a great Thanksgiving. Sorry for bother you, can I send you a file of my measurement using rew and umik 1? I don't know if the graphic is ok or I have to do more measurements
Hello,
I hear u talking allot about Deep bass Subwoofers I already ordered the Svs SB16-ultra. What do thinks about this one. its a sealed one Because de Pb Is way to big.
Iike to hear from you please.
I know your comment, and your question is old But you will be very happy with the SB 1600 ultra it’s incredibly accurate and awesome
I was able to get two of them, and I am in the process of calibrating and integrating them into my surroundsound set up. Can’t wait to watch old movies.
Ported subwoofers are not for me. I tried them. I didn’t like the port noise I didn’t like the size I didn’t like the extra on necessary pressure in my moving watching environment. I also didn’t like the port noise and lingering bass with sound like Blowed it bass
Hi from portugal! Deep subs or "normal" subs regardless the price there is a big difference but in order to take full pleasure isolation of the room must be right...
You were speaking of gain. Just cranking up the gain as you put it. I’m always really concerned about sending a clipped signal to it. In my opinion I think that use of an oscilloscope would be the proper way to say the gain or gains. Like I said it is my opinion but I do agree with dual subs for sure.
100 percent true!!!! Audyssey sets my dual pb-1000 to -12db . I have to adjust to -6db to -3db to make em come to life!!!!!!! Also Audyssey sets my towers to full range which start to roll off at 45hz or so..*dual 8s in each tower* they crossover perfectly at 80hz. Point being after first running Audyssey and turn on music my subs are completely off!!!!! OFF!!! I trust my ears mostly, but REW confirms what i hear.
Great feedback, thank you!
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks for reading ! I have a Denon avr 70 watts per channel 7.2 and i love it. however, it's not very "Potent" as you would call it. I learned that i get better dynamics across the entire bass frequency range which extends up to around 250hz, when i let my pb 1000s handled all the bass and crossover @ 250hz. I've tried doing this with a few other cheaper subs and it was way too boomy and sloppy. Of course this only works when you have high quality subs setup right next to your mains. Thought i would mention it cause this is the main reason i kept my pb 1000s sure they hit 10-15hz deeper, but i can play them 150hz higher also.
If Audyssey is setting your subs at -12dB then you have the gain turned up too high. -12 is the max adjustment, so for all you know it would have set them even lower if it could have. You should turn down the gain until you get a setting of -11 or higher. Then bump them up to your preference from there.
The way I routinely set up subs bottoms out the AVR subwoofer level to -12.0 after room correction, and it has no measurable negative effect on the performance.
Quite the opposite, it's the foundation of my Gain Hack.
It doesn't really matter whether you get a result of -6.5 or -12.0 it's what you do after room correction that matters most.
But if it makes you more comfortable, go with what you prefer.
Having done it both ways myself, I will keep doing it as I outlined in my Gain Hack Video.
@@konior21 if I end up at -3db like I wrote how is my gain too high? But I've tried it a thousand ways. In the end I like what sounds the best. Some times I run my towers crossed over at 250hz for heavy metal cause my receivers amp can't keep up.
Great to see you!!
Thanks for stopping by!
I have spl 150 but when I turn it up I start hearing cracks sound anyone know y
Probably reaching its limits, or something is wrong.
I would reach out to the manufacturer.
Definitely shouldn't be hearing cracks.
Yep, you're at the subs limits. The voice coil is bottoming out.
Amazing video as always ❤️😍
Thank you, and thanks for stopping by!
Big Thank you for your explanations, just got on home cinema adventures, got wharfadales quartz and dual sub elac s10.2, deep bass is far far away from me
"The List" is your friend...😁
Indeed, you will notice a dramatic difference.
@@Subwoofer101 first i must take care of the wife problem, having big squares in the room is a deep problem for her loool... the PB subs would be fine but here in europe is just way more expensive. Thank you brother!
I fully understand, my wife was very sad to see my little Supercube returned, in favor of a very large VTF-15.
She's as much of a deep bass fan as I am, she no longer cares about the subwoofer size, she LOVED the PB-16 Ultras and wants them back.
Can't say that you'll have the same response from your wife, but I rarely get a negative response to the sound. It's always different, and better than people anticipate.
@@Subwoofer101 yeah well the sound just how i like to say is a very personal felling, it may sound good for me but for another may not... i guess i will have one year of dish whashing to compensate...
@@Subwoofer101 for a small apartment i will go for dual pb 1000... think that it is slightly better than the elac s10
What happened to the original pb2000? I can't seem to find them online
They've been replaced by the pro version. Monoprice did the same thing with their Monolith subs.
this dudes smart
Probably depends on who you ask...
I appreciate it though!
I run 2 ported” and 1 sealed to fill the gap👊🏽
compare to JL Audio E112?
Certainly can't say JL is low quality, but I can't tolerate sealed subs, not SVS, nor any other brand. Post Concussion Syndrome is the likely culprit.
From the graphs and feedback, I believe that sealed SVS subs sound deeper than JL, and you can see my video on "going deep vs sounding deep".
Since SVS ported subwoofers tend to measurably sound deeper than SVS sealed subs, my assumption would be that ported SVS subwoofers will most likely have more relative deep bass in the audible spectrum.
The bottom end is audibly bottomless and powerful at the lowest frequencies you can hear. Ported might be bigger and more expensive, but I strongly prefer them.
seeking mid bass info comparing 12" to 15" (I have a feeling 15" speakers are just NOT good for ANYTHING)
Daddy's back! 🔥🔥🔥 😁
Haha, thanks for the warm welcome!!
I live in an apartment. What subs should I get?
Can I hire you to calibrate my home theater 😂 Problem solved
Ported subwoofer issues that I do not like, and I stay away from ported subwoofers
I cannot stand the port noise, the air pressure coming out of the ports can’t stand that specially if you have put Poured it, subwoofers in a small room that means you’re closer to the ports and you can hear and feel that noise and pressure
Another issue I have with port it subwoofers is that most of the times they are larger. Don’t care for that. Specially, if you don’t have the space.
Another issue is base accuracy port it subwoofers to me bass accuracy is not good. The bass sound like it’s bleeding and it’s lingering. It’s what I call. Bloated base I can’t stand that.
If I’m watching a movie and there’s an explosion, I want to hear the explosion sound and then disposing sound stops ported subwoofers the base continues and lingers in like it’s bleeding and blowed it. I don’t like that even in music the base hits it really doesn’t bleed or State blowed it in music
I have the sealed 3000 the sealed 4000 and the awesome sealed 1600 ultra duels and they rock and I’m satisfied
Took me a while to get to this point, but I’m very thankful that I have the set up that I have in my game room and in my movie watching room
Lots to cover there, like the fact that I've only heard port noise in a few, extremely hard hitting scenes. On the order of ridiculousness.
Generally, the subwoofers I like are going to be VERY good at avoiding port noise.
Ported vs Sealed tends to be a preference. Obviously, sealed subs have a strong following.
As long as you're happy, that's the key.
Running dual Arendal 1v's......I approve.
EQ 1? That looks to have respectable numbers, should be a decent rise in output as you go deeper with room gain. Thanks for bringing this sub to my attention!
@@Subwoofer101 Their 1723 2v subs have dual opposing drivers, but alas they are too big for my space....plus I wasn't too keen on paying 5 grand for two subs, plus sales tax, plus shipping, plus import duty.
Yeah, another consideration for my list is value. That might be a problem. Would I separate myself from my cash to make it happen. That's the ultimate test.
Hey you all i am from the netherlands, i was that guy that thout i had a good sub it was 400 euro s and it was a magnat ,then this year with corrona shit ,and no holiday, i though i spent my money on a new home theater system, so from magnat to svs ultra towers and the pb 3000 (my center and surround s are (FOR NOW)😏 stil magnat s ), when i was instaling the pb 3000 after audyssey i thout hey where is my bass ,then i turn the subgain itself up to -10 and the hole fucking room begine to shake and i was like whooo this is so awsome, so conclusion there is boom and there is bass ,a prefer the bass the real one ,a nou no what real bas is 💪
Running a single PB-3000?
Trust me, get another before any other upgrade.
You'll have to reduce the gain by 5-6 dB, so -15 on each sub and you'll be even more impressed. 💪💪💪💪
@@Subwoofer101 i now that was the difficalt thing i wanted the new voicecoil💪wittch is slaming by the way as you no , but i no i have to get a second one before they run out ,😀but trust me that will be done ,as a love these lowwslamming dry ,insane housshaking shit
It's addictive! Always looking for new content to feed them.
My Spotify account is public and you can see everything I listen to. Wide variety of music.
@@Subwoofer101 nice i look into that ,sorry for my english i am dutch so 🤣😉
Your English is better than many in the USA! I'm talking about those with English as their only language too! 😆
I joke, but there are plenty of people here who didn't much care for English class in school. Myself included!
So I think it's the way it was taught, rather than the subject.
There are some great English teachers, no doubt, but there are some "not so great" ones too.
I love and respect teachers as a general rule, don't get me wrong, but English class was what I struggled with most.
A few teachers were great, but some were just insufferable. 🥱
No problem understanding you though!
I had a supervisor years ago named Udo, really great guy. He went by "Dutch" as a nickname.
I can't believe how many cheap subs get 5 star ratings.
Whatever happened to your reviews? Are you still around on RUclips?
2 subs...Just wait til you go with 4
Been there, done that. I'd rather have 2 more powerful subwoofers, rather than 4 less powerful subwoofers.
4 subs are a little smoother, but I feel like you get more bang for your buck with increased power and explosiveness.
Going from 2 to 4 does improve impact, not like stepping up in power.
The one exception for me would be for music only, where impact is less important. Then 4 subs would make sense.
Have top tier subs? 4 would be great there too.
Song doesnt have deep bass just get an audiocontrol epicenter everything has bass with an epicenter
lol I always use one. Thanks though
One sub?
Running two subs one 12 inch 200 watt & 10 inch 150 watt separately from each other 10 inch infront 12 inch in the rooms corner.
Yes the the base is clean tight and very concise deep base ..
I'm puzzled to some of your comments on why runnig different subs is not ok?
Yes I do run lots of gain, you need to spend much time setting up to get it all 100%
It's all about setup and tuning of your amp Hz cut off speaker placement 101 120hz max low frequencies sent much to learn always everyone's opinion is welcome ...
you need to of the same subs is just rubbish, having two different sizes tuned allows for a much-needed balanced low frequency response especially in explosions and car door closing thud sounds or say a kick drum to base string plucking odd shaped environments require different measures of sub air and volumecontrol this where I've arrived for the time being...
Buddy your given some good basic advice but lack so many very important fundamentals in setup & tuning like saying you have run two identical subs is just ridiculous experience with tuning a system comes with time and experimental setups 🤔😇
Something tells me that you: A) Aren't working with deep bass subwoofers.
B) You haven't measured the differences in response as I have, with several different subs.
It was clear as day that the bigger the difference between the subs, the more problems you encounter.
Are mixed subs considerably better than a single?
Yep, even when I mixed a Bose "bass module" to a Onkyo 10" "Home theater in a box" (budget) sub.
Neither were worth writing home about, but better than a single for sure.
Fast forward to two of my favorite subs, the PB-2000 and PB-16 Ultra.
I had dual 2000's as seen in the video, but only a single PB-16 Ultra, also seen in the video.
I could not get the second 16 Ultra until months later.
I tried every possible way to get them to play nice together, but there was always a loss of clarity, and cancellations where they didn't make sense.
Honestly, I was less than impressed with the 16 Ultra. I turned it off, in favor of the MATCHING PB-2000's.
They sounded better, AND measured better. Fewer cancellations. Tight. Proper.
Later, I paired the PB-16 Ultra with a VTF-15, much closer in driver size, but considerably less power, and a slightly different response curve.
It was better than mixed with the "12 inch PB-2000's, but still not quite as clean as the matched PB-2000's.
Didn't feel like 1,500 watts RMS either.
Sounded "soft" for that much wattage, more in line with what I would expect from dual VTF-15's mk1 (350 watts, before the upgrade to 600 watts). It was strange, and I was still unimpressed with the PB-16 Ultra.
I refrained from doing a review, because I thought there was a chance that matching PB-16 Ultras might change my mind.
Then I finally got the second one in.
The difference was NIGHT AND DAY.
That softer feeling was GONE, and instead I was being hit by a ton of bricks during certain scenes. I called it a spleen massage. Most explosive bass I've heard yet.
Until I had the second matching PB-16 Ultra, there just wasn't a spleen massage.
The difference in clarity, impact, the tightness of said impact, the better blending of the identical subs was undeniable.
I went from being somewhat disappointed and underwhelmed with the PB-16 Ultra, to it being my absolute favorite subwoofer to date, cost aside.
I'm not sure where you think my experience is flawed, but it was measurable and noticed by others who are nowhere near as into home theater as I am.
I didn't pull this theory out of the air, I stumbled upon it, and it was simply impossible to deny.
My fundamentals are sound, even if they aren't mainstream, conventional wisdom.
I used to run 2 high quality Velodyne's, one was 15" at 1250 watts and the other was 12" at 850 watts and placed them similar to yours and did all sorts of tuning and they sounded really good. Then 2 identical SVS PB3000 and they were on an entirely different level Before I even tuned them. I would even say a single SVS was better than mismatched duals, but SVS is deep base but Velodyne makes a very quality product. No amount of tuning or configurations will perform as well as matched subs
Thanks for backing me up Shane, that's relevant experience, and totally in line with my own experience.
Velodyne did some great things for subs, and I respect and appreciate their history and contributions to subwoofers as a whole.
Not on the same level though.
Thanks for your response!
@@Subwoofer101 I'm sure you're are correct with $1600 to $2000 subs mate 100% , I don't have sponsors unfortunately I run one Wharfedale 10" 150 watt & my trustee 12" 250 watt Sasui running Jamo 707 towers paradigm center channel surrounds are Jbl monitors Amp ms Denon avr-x1200w as you can see not in your league I buy what filters diwn into the second hand market.
I only dream of the gear you men speak of lol anyway I'm doing my best I hear you about thd subs though, power watt wuse would epic as my room is 6m x 8m with cathedral ceilings I live in Australia prices for quality for digital entertainment is almost 60% more then you guys spend.
Any help is always appreciated
What is proper room placement for a pair of SVS PB 2000 pros? Both out front or one out front and one rear would be better?