Cdti 190bhp and only x amount are gonna be made. Do the job yourself. Buy a Cdti 150. Blank the egr, mod the airbox and fit better filter, remove precat, remove dpf then get it mapped 220bhp right there. Brakes fit EBC USR and Yellowstuff. simples.
@@dieselfanboy4361 i was running 208hp stock everything, 2010, so got the uprated ECU. Stock turbo absolutely fine for over 2 years, then I switched to a GT1856.
The 2ltr Redtop is quite possibly the best N/A engine built by Vauxhall/Opel/Bedford (whoever else might fit into this category) You never hear of cavalier 1.8i engines in caterhams LOL
The performance of these cars is obviously broadly similar, sadly the 1.9cdti may lose a bit of time due to pitstop to have EGR valve, swirl flaps, dual mass flywheel and chocolate gearbox replaced. Sadly I drive a 1.9cdti Vectra, it is a great economical cruiser, however I baby it around because I don't want to break it! Sitting on 19" rims it is a bit of a sheep in Wolfs clothing....
Those 1.9 CDTi engines are bulletproof they are really good engines we have a Vectra SRi with a 1.9 150 and the torque is incredible as the turbo whooshes into life
Bob Pegram look after any engine bro regardless of who made it lmao all cones down to maintaining it . my 150 been running 200 bhp for years now its on 145000 thou n still pulls strong lad and bye bye vxr when you stop for fuel lol
Not bullet proof. Had one myself and the water pump failed and threw cam belt off at 22k and 2 years old! Fixed under warranty and sold soon after. Was reading Honest John website and lots of comments about it being a Alfa/Fiat block and several other reports of the same issue happening on other peoples cars too. Good car though and nice to drive.
You guys are hilarious, you should form a comedy duo, perhaps nob and cheese? something similar? You came on here with your generalisations about diesels being slow, despite the video above showing impressive hot hatch performance, and now having realised that not everyone is after performance at any cost have decided that perhaps it is easier to slate me than the 888. Strong show for you boys.
I agree, the 888 diesel porvides performance as well as economy. Why do people on here refuse to see that the astra diesel is a quick car? If it only loses to the VXR by a fraction of a second it is not slow, even the presenter said it was 'a moral victory'
250 bhp is stock prodrive Mcrae. It still goes 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds, is unmodified and thus retains its high limited edition value and it retained its manufacturers warranty, it didn't need to be modded to be fast. The "diesels are slow argument" is proven, the facts are they are slower, everyone knows this, we don't need to cover that ground anymore. Although feel free to witter on it is quite amusing for those of us who know ;-)
Remaps on diesels do work but the trouble is during a hot summers day they are not getting the amount of air required for the remap. The correct amount of air needs to be ingested inorder for a remap to work properly. At night the cool air is dense and compressed so you get more of the correct amount of power. My Seat 1.9 TDI will put out 330-340 nms during a hot day and it shoots right up to 380 when the air is cold. You need to reduce the heat of the induction if you want more power.
If you answered 888 to my first question, you get three supplementary questions: (1)Are you Graham Norton? (2)Are you sure your not Graham Norton (3)At your first Traffic Light Grand prix you come against the VXR you should have bought: do you (a)Continue in Graham Norton mode and not bother, (b)Pretend you have broken down (c)Turn off, (d)hide, (e)Admit that you are Graham Norton really.
Ok this needs to be clarified too. Diesels have higher volumetric efficiency, but the calorific value of the fuel is lower. The improvement in volumetric efficiency is enough to provide improved mpg. However because the diesel burns far far slower than petrol and the fuel is less energetic you need to burn a lot more of it to get the power which means you need a bigger engine. This means to get power from a diesel you need to burn A LOT of it....continued
Rover diesels are ultra reliable and sensibly priced- unlike those wannabe VW's, the Seat Leon Cupra R's. If they had had a rover diesel on the track with those 2 astras i think you would find the Rover had done 2 laps before they had even done 1 :P
Nothing, completely standard! You can get similar power from a DTUK box too. It tends to smoke a bit under heavy load and the power does drop slightly when its being hammered (because it needs a bigger intercooler). But its loads of fun! Both issues have never bothered me.
like it or not the gap between diesel car and petrol cars is minimal. at the end of the day you drive what you like as long as your happy, have a nice day dude,
easy to answer: The proliferation of diesels was popularised by taxation. Supposedly better mpg and lower company car tax has increased the popularity. People who drive diesels, keep the real cars (i.e. the fast petrol ones) for pleasure and the weekend. And you don't get the same performance from stock vehicles, you must compare like with like, the point is the diesel car was mod'ed to the max - AND IT STILL LOST OUT.
Oh, and be prepared for torque steer! You have to be awake haha! It's all part of the fun though! I wouldn't change it for the world. Focus's drive so much better and handle better but they have weak diesel engines and don't look half as good. I'm selling my Astra for an A3 at the end of the year. I just hope the A3 isn't gonna seem boring! Gonna go for the 2.0L 170BHP diesel quattro. :)
I Had a 1.9 Sri boxed to 198bhp ... i now own a VXR sure the 888 can keep up with a STOCK VXR, you take the VXR to Stage one the 888 has no hope in hell of keeping up.
Opel have a much better build quality than Vauxhall produced vehicles. I'm sumizing you've never looked into that fact. You can get alot of aftermarket parts for an Opel over a Vauxhall. Yes they have the same drive drains, floor pan, ect... But much much better build quality. The engines are the same, but the Opel built engine last longer and run smoother. Don't ask me why but they do.
I guess to anybody that is financially challenged this diesel (tractor) is a good alternative. But if have got the money and want loads of fun go for a petrol sports car. Diesels lack soul. The End
it just torque steers a bit...but if vauxhall had limited the torque steer then the car would loose all of it's steering feel. It is really good to drive, the best for thrills for sure in it's class.
Yes moderate gains from a slow baseline. The only reason its tunable "via a remap" is because its a turbo. You can tube the VXR for another 50-100 horse for the same money and it would beat the diesel by an even greater margin. Its very very simple, if diesel were so great, formula one cars would use them - and guess what they don't, and for a reason. The only time in motor racing where a diesel powered vehicle has won is in recent le-mans 24hours, only because it gave good gas mileage.
I havent said for all out performance buy a diesel, but what kingchrissyp says sums up nicely, the astra does give performance AND economy, so why argue you cant have a fast diesel? The 0-60 of roughly 6.5 seconds is the same as a Civic type R which has the same bhp and weight.
They are also lower tax and in the case of the vxr and 888 which we are discussing the diesel is 3 thousand pounds cheaper. Turboing a diesel doesnt give it bad mpg, the 888 shows this, all the reviews of it say it gives 40mpg even when driven hard, the vxr would be lucky to give 20. All turbo cars have masses of torque so generally speaking are more suited to overtaking than NA petrols.
if I remember rightly the 888 has 200BHP and 350lb/ft of torque, the VXr 240 BHP and 240lb/ft of torque, pretty even match on a tight track, the diesel torque would be very handy, what they should have done is a track race and a 1 mile drag race, just to show the top end of the cars, both are pretty good cars though. The good thing with the 888 is that you don't have to constantly change gears or worry about being in the wrong gear as much as a petrol car. And the 888 = 36MPG is pretty good.
Parkers probably doesnt take into account that the 888 is limited edition, put your impreza in parkers price guide and see if you think you would ask anything similar if you wanted to sell it.
Also I just have to comment, the BMW 335D does 23 mpg, and the fuel is more expensive (do a google search for 335D mpg) and it still takes over six seconds for a 3litre turbo and it costs £35,000 pounds, and it only produces 280 horse. 280 horse is 60 hp less than stock 2 litre petrols from Mitsubishi produce for the same money.
To be fair, you have a point. But I feel as though 20mpg extra might be a slight exaggeration. If you check out the fifth gear mini cooper petrol vs diesel the overall mpg was 19mpg diesel and 18mpg petrol, this was after they thrashed the hell out of them. I guess its all down to personal preference at the end of the day.
The EDS maps are good. I have a custom map from a local tuning place. It should have a bigger intercooler + a sport exhaust, but at the moment its not something I'm after. It needs suspension + brake upgrades before I ever think of making it quicker. The brakes are horrible and it struggles to put power down at times, especially roundabouts. It will wheel spin out of them, so you have to be careful. With stiffer suspension and a rear anti-roll bar fitted, it should handle the power a lot better.
The early cross over ecotecs had the red L spark plug covers, it wasn't until later all ecotecs went to black spark plug covers. I used to work in a motorfactors and youd always get the " i need this for a red top" You get them a part for the "red top" and fook me if the part didn't fit. Theres plenty of morans that hear RETOP and just shout it when they get the chance to sound like the know thier stuff when they don't. *"Oh the redtop is the best" "which one?" *"errrr"
@BallisticEVA01 Sillicone/cold feed turbo hoses and intercooler pipework will do the trick and should increase the power. New intercooler is better but then it also shoves your torque curve right up and eliminates the original low-down grunt. Changing your Pipework over to a cold air feed won't ruin the original grunt and It'll cost you less then installing a new intercooler. Do the pipes first and see if the pipes make a difference!
So would the fuel costs. I've had 1 Astra GSI, 1 Cavalier GSI and a Cav turbo. (when fuel was cheap) The engines are quick but shite on maintance, serviced them every 4k and they still fooked up. The 1.8 is gutless at top end but it keeps on going, not matter what you through at it. The last owner ran it for 7 months every day without oiling it. Never blow up or missed a beat. The C20XE smashed its prop shaft at 20mph low rev, what the f*ck! The LET just through a piston.
That view is dated and does not apply to the newer diesel engines, which are not rattly old oil burners. Your username sums you up nicely, as anybody with even a slight knowledge of cars knows diesels are far to cheaper to modify for moderate gains, i.e. 50-100 bhp, as many can be done with a remap for £500.
Ok I will explain... Remap, High-Flow Cat and Downpipe with Connecting pipe and PD160 Air filter. nothing has been tinkered with in terms of Turbo. If you are thinking I have had an AMD remap and stupid cat-back from Milltek or something then it would be producing about 180 at the fly... I admit though, as soon as I get into 5th and 6th around the 90mph mark I'm starting to run out of steam, but then I've shortened the gear ratios to keep the torque band at 2100rpm
no , if the cars were in 3rd it would be the same result. the 888 430nm VXR 320nm. does not sound alot, but in the real world its huge. IN ALL OUT DRAG RACE OVER A MILE . THE VXR WOULD WIN.
The cost of runnning a diesel is less, even if you run on normal petrol and not the premium stuff many performance cars use (costs the same as diesel). You said the reason they were becoming popular was because they were cheaper to run
What are you on about the diesel being modded to the max? It was still a lot cheaper than the VXR, it had LESS money spent on it. You really dont understand that for the real world a diesel car is just as fast as a petrol. More high performance diesels are starting to be produced as the technology is catching up, look at the 335d, its 0-60 time is 6 seconds or just under and returns 35mpg plus in a big car. Diesels are becoming popular because they are improving.
Starting to get somewhere with you, it is a good alternative-thankyou. Not gonna argue that petrols arent more fun to drive - they are, but its all to do with priorities and the diesel is not that much down on performance for the increase it gives in practicality.
Your statement is fawed. Triple 8 released the Astra 888 as thier own car, and they were never pre-registered as a Vauxhall. So considering 888 is the manufacturer of the Astra 888 then its also stock. As it was never been modified before it was registered.
The Thurlby 888 astra costs the same OTR price as the VXR, go check the prices.... It also has two ECU modes, a "graham norton" mode at "160 bhp" and a slightly less "graham norton", [but not much], "200 bhp" mode. So to get the mpg you have to drive it in "graham norton" mode all day long. :-P
For a university student on poor wages wanting the best combination on reliability, performance (nothing extrodinary, but as quick as other things in my price range such as saxo vtr's) and mpg, 45+ even about town then yes my rover does me fine.
i was explaining my choice of car by saying i was a university student (University of Brum so Red Brick also), hence had no money, i never lorded my education over anyone.i was just pointing out that the diesel is a good buy for someone who wants performance and reliability. I never viewed the 888 as being a tuned model as it could have been produced by Vauxhall as a standard car, and judged it on its own merit than as a souped up version. I dont take this seriously either, thankyou
I can understand wanting to sell a diesel in the first year or day, but the vxr you'll really want to keep. Also do your research the parkers guide to the vxr has a higher residual value than the diesel...
The phrase 'more money than sense' comes to mind, but i guess that in all honesty that is what it comes down to. If you really prioritise that split second in performance more than the cost saved with the diesel then fair enough go for the petrol.
The point of diesel is economy but you got to admit diesel has come on a long way in past years and they do shift and give petrol a run for there money.I think in a few years time diesel will wipe the floor with petrol and dont forget 45% of cars sold in uk are diesel.
I think it is you who is missing the point, if diesels are 'old technology' then why has the proportion of them on the road compared to petrol cars risen dramatically over the past 10 years or so and is still rising. The point of the program was to show that you can have practicality and performance in a diesel. Even on the straight line speed there is a fraction of a difference in the 2 cars in the above video and that is with 55bhp difference in the petrols favour.....think about it.
Diesel in the UK is more expensive that petrol.. LPG is creeping up as well. I used to own a Daewoo Nexia ( lol ) It ran on gas.. it was 35p a litre.. now its a fortune.. The debate we have here is the 888 v VXR - The cars are similarly matched in the review. The 1.9cdti can be made to perform like the 88 for very little money... Its cheaper, more economical, has more torque and is a lower insurance band- cheaper, and lower tax band- cheaper.. So the as per my earlier thoughts.. CDTI wins.
The diesel should feel a hell of a lot quicker with 450nm of torque compared to the 350nm of the vxr, bearing in mind that a 2009 ferrari 458 italia has 450nm of torque, but with 562bhp and a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds. just buy a normal 150bhp astra diesel and chip it up, its as quick as a 888 but at a fraction of the cost
hilarious my friend, they dont do a 1.1 just as an aside. Since when did a 1.1 in a car like an astra achieve the sorts of performance shown in the video above? Seriously all diesel hating aside, it deserves respect for the way it compares in that video, if you raced a civic type R against it in a straight line it would lose by exactly the same amount as the 888.
in the uk. its called vauxhall astra vxr. only in the rest of europe it an opel. OPEL DONT GET THE SAME NAME FOR THIS CAR. ITS FOR THE UK ONLY. BUT THEY ARE STILL THE SAME CAR.
@Shammy214 True, This 1.9 liter engine is very nice, but without the turbo, it would be a waste of a car. The only problem that i can point out to my (this) car, is the huge turbo lag. If you enter a corner too fast with understeer, and you drop the revs to less than about 1800 rpm, it takes ages for it to recover. But when it does, in beast mode (sport button pressed for 4/5 seconds), it gives you a nice kick in the back! :) Too bad i couldnt install this 888 kit in my car... :(
i think your wright mate. each time vicky is on screen the 888 is wright up to her door. then it cuts back to open shot of the two cars. vxr a car lenth ahead. does look fixed the way they have done this
...continued.. You also need a turbo to make them at a minimum acceptable. This means you will not get any improvement (or at best 1-2% better) over a petrol engine producing the same power, driving in the same manner, in mpg. When you consider petrol is 3% cheaper than diesel and the servicing costs of diesels are much higher, and you pay a premium for a diesel (unbelievable but often true), then the diesel is not only an inferior, slower drive, its also more expensive...continued....
You have quoted the urban mpg, combined is 30mpg, i cant think of a similar performance petrol of the same size which would do that. You compare litres and bhp from them as though it matters. Vtec engines can produce 100bhp per litre or more, it doesnt mean that all performance cars use the V-tech technology.
@larssonk22 To tell u the truth, the Sport button has 2 modes. If u press it normally, it changes the electronics, throtle response is much faster and sharpens steering. But if you press it for more than 4 or 5 seconds, it turns all driver aids of (traction and stability control), i already spun it. :) But im not so sure about the ABS, because in this mode i already locked up the tyres in braking. Also, my car has already turned safe mode on while driving to its corner limits in the highway.
When you're pushing 180bhp at the wheels in my car that's now grabbing 290ft lb a torque then yes, I can easily stay with VXR's, FOCUS ST's and 3 MPS' There's no need for dreamin sunshine! The lag in the VXR is ridiculous! 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear I'm gonna see them in the mirrors!
"Opel, the European subsidiary of General Motors, and is part of GM Europe "Vauxhall Motors is a British automobile company. It is a subsidiary of General Motors Corporation (GM), and is part of GM Europe" Vauxhall and Opel are part of the same company group, however I don't see "888, a subsidiary of general motors anywhere" QED. LMFAO....
WOW! i didn't know that. I'm not arguing they are a different company or owned by a different company. The build quility is completely different, the opel built vehicles last alot longer and ride better than the Vauxhall built vehicles.
The vxr is a higher trim spec (alloys etc) than the diesel, its a faster car, you would expect it to cost more out of the box. You spend the same on mods for a like for like comparison. Furthermore in any motor racing event the classes are modified or unmodified. As you rightly pointed out, it still has 55 horse more than the diesel without a single modification. --Keep the diesels on the farm...
So if you want to go slower and pay more for it buy the diesel. However if your a rep and wants to chug along on the motorway, don't mind sitting behind slow vehicles on A road because you don't have the power to overtake, not really bothered about fast acceleration and thrilling pleasurable drive, buy something like an Astra or Vectra diesel. ...continued...
they handle like that because the frame is worthiness if the frame were at least 80% better they wouldn't understear like they bo but at least the VXR8 is the best out of the VXR'S
Than that's it:)If someone is buying car for fun,racing and performance the VXR is a possible solution. If buying for transportation and low price per mileage, don't buy CDT. You'd be better of with smaller diesel turbo engine And btw, diesel cars are usually more expensive because lots of people want it for its high mileage and lower fuel prices.So it's better getting gasoline and convert it on LPG before rest of the world does it too. LPG fuel price will be winner in owners wallet in long term
Hmm, I used to have an Astra VXR. Rolling start, if she stuck it in 3rd, rolling at 30mph she would have dusted him. It was crap off the line as the power band is too short and it revved to quick, so you had to skip gears. However 30-70mph it went like a b******
@Enzer89 Thanks mate, you made my point! :) Exactly! Not to mention the huge puff of smoke like an oil tanker that these tuned diesel cars make... My point is: want a sports car... buy petrol! Period! If i could, i would swap my 1.9 150 hp Astra for a OPC(VXR) one, anytime!!! But im glad with my car though... 150 hp is enough to play and be economical at the same time. :)
Also you say you would expect it to cost more....? Why? It probably wouldnt cost the extra 2k spent on the VXR to get the diesel upto the same spec (alloys etc). The video above shows that the diesel version is VERY close performance wise compared to the VXR end of story, the video shows it. Try and argue that a VXR putting out 195bhp or if the diesel put out 240bhp that the diesel wouldnt have won. It was embarassingly close for the petrol with its extra 2k and extra 55bhp as it was.
You've missed the point. The calorific value of the fuel is lower, so the engine will be less powerful simple fact. The real point is dispite all the work and effort spent, the diesel is still slower, its an inferior technology period, so why waste your time, the point of tuning is to go fast, and it that respect this fails and therefore tuning the diesel is pointless. If you want to tune to go fast you start with a faster baseline, i.e. the petrol engine.
You only need the serious torque if your car is heavy. more weight, the more torque you need. f1 cars weigh a few hundred kgs.. hence not much torque considering their performance.
yes true BUT IF THE DIESEL WAS IN THIRD THE RESULT WOULD BE THE SAME, 888 HAS TO MUCH TORQUE. STRAIGHT DRAG RACE UP TO TOP SPEED VXR WOULD WIN THAT. BUT 888 NOT JUST ABOUT TOPSPEED. POWER COMBINED WITH GREAT MPG
The wit is never ending with you..... Doesnt it grate on you that your Impreza only pushes out 250bhp (according to your other post), when all the GOOD ones do 280bhp plus? You have apparently given up on the whole 'diesels are slow, the 888 astra is slow' argument. Shame, it was more fun picking apart the blatant inconsistencies and the missing logic. Oh well the farm jokes are good as well...
You have just completely changed your argument, before you claimed that the diesel cost more now you are saying the VXR is bound to cost more...? You talk about modifications, but the astra could come out of the factory with that spec, just like the VXR does, how much more do you think they spend eeking 240bhp out of their petrol engine than bothering on the diesel? You make it sound like petrol naturally has lots of bhp-not the case, lots of money is spent getting the most out of both fuel type
You at least have the choice of good fuel economy, even driving a vxr as economically as possible you wouldnt get much over 30mpg, i would put money on 30mpg being easily achievable in sport mode on the 888. At 5min 5secs she points out the price difference, and the diesel would be a lot easier to live with.
@moschops21 I totally agree with you. I used to drive the 1.8 SRi VVT's at enterprise rent a car, I almost lived in them. I got to test them on all types of scenario's. Funny thing is they actually feel faster then what my own remapped Seat Leon FR feels like. Its a false perception of fast acceleration with petrols. I was in a red 1.8 sporthatch SRI with the S switched on and tried to keep up with a europcar Sport hatch CDTI 150. 4,000-6,000 hard revs of sheer 1.8 brutality never touched it.
I dont care about the petrol version, why would i want to add to the expenses of running one if i couldnt afford to run a vxr (or couldnt justify running one) anyway.
I have a remapped 1.9 150 SRi. It puts out 207bhp and 440nm of torque.
Safe to say, its fucking quick!
Cal M you still have it?
Cal M I heard the gear boxes can’t handle the power
Stage 1 map
i love diesels and vauxhalls. i wish i could get this tripple eight
Cdti 190bhp and only x amount are gonna be made. Do the job yourself. Buy a Cdti 150. Blank the egr, mod the airbox and fit better filter, remove precat, remove dpf then get it mapped 220bhp right there. Brakes fit EBC USR and Yellowstuff. simples.
HiddenWarrior topman
Bullshit the maximum with a stock parts is 190 bhp, if you want more u need bigger turbo and etc... thr stock garret can't handle more than 190
@@dieselfanboy4361 i was running 208hp stock everything, 2010, so got the uprated ECU. Stock turbo absolutely fine for over 2 years, then I switched to a GT1856.
I've a Stage 2 Astra VXR running 285bhp and 440Nm torque
The VXR is stock, the diesel is played with to the max, and it still lost.
Leave your diesel for the buses and trains...
The 2ltr Redtop is quite possibly the best N/A engine built by Vauxhall/Opel/Bedford (whoever else might fit into this category)
You never hear of cavalier 1.8i engines in caterhams LOL
The performance of these cars is obviously broadly similar, sadly the 1.9cdti may lose a bit of time due to pitstop to have EGR valve, swirl flaps, dual mass flywheel and chocolate gearbox replaced. Sadly I drive a 1.9cdti Vectra, it is a great economical cruiser, however I baby it around because I don't want to break it! Sitting on 19" rims it is a bit of a sheep in Wolfs clothing....
Diesel power kicks ass !!! I hava a astra 1.9 with 150hp and i love it.............
I would also hardly call £1000 of bits for the CDTI "All that money" - still much cheaper than a VXR.
Those 1.9 CDTi engines are bulletproof they are really good engines we have a Vectra SRi with a 1.9 150 and the torque is incredible as the turbo whooshes into life
Bob Pegram look after any engine bro regardless of who made it lmao all cones down to maintaining it . my 150 been running 200 bhp for years now its on 145000 thou n still pulls strong lad and bye bye vxr when you stop for fuel lol
Bob Pegram i love it mate fiat smiat lol
Not bullet proof. Had one myself and the water pump failed and threw cam belt off at 22k and 2 years old! Fixed under warranty and sold soon after. Was reading Honest John website and lots of comments about it being a Alfa/Fiat block and several other reports of the same issue happening on other peoples cars too.
Good car though and nice to drive.
2012, UK , fuel prices....
The real winner is the 888/ CDTI owners wallet.
2021, still the same way 🤣🤣
Haha too true :-)
You guys are hilarious, you should form a comedy duo, perhaps nob and cheese? something similar? You came on here with your generalisations about diesels being slow, despite the video above showing impressive hot hatch performance, and now having realised that not everyone is after performance at any cost have decided that perhaps it is easier to slate me than the 888. Strong show for you boys.
I agree, the 888 diesel porvides performance as well as economy. Why do people on here refuse to see that the astra diesel is a quick car? If it only loses to the VXR by a fraction of a second it is not slow, even the presenter said it was 'a moral victory'
250 bhp is stock prodrive Mcrae. It still goes 0-60 in under 5.5 seconds, is unmodified and thus retains its high limited edition value and it retained its manufacturers warranty, it didn't need to be modded to be fast. The "diesels are slow argument" is proven, the facts are they are slower, everyone knows this, we don't need to cover that ground anymore. Although feel free to witter on it is quite amusing for those of us who know ;-)
Remaps on diesels do work but the trouble is during a hot summers day they are not getting the amount of air required for the remap. The correct amount of air needs to be ingested inorder for a remap to work properly. At night the cool air is dense and compressed so you get more of the correct amount of power. My Seat 1.9 TDI will put out 330-340 nms during a hot day and it shoots right up to 380 when the air is cold. You need to reduce the heat of the induction if you want more power.
If you answered 888 to my first question, you get three supplementary questions:
(1)Are you Graham Norton?
(2)Are you sure your not Graham Norton
(3)At your first Traffic Light Grand prix you come against the VXR you should have bought:
do you (a)Continue in Graham Norton mode and not bother, (b)Pretend you have broken down (c)Turn off, (d)hide, (e)Admit that you are Graham Norton really.
Ok this needs to be clarified too. Diesels have higher volumetric efficiency, but the calorific value of the fuel is lower. The improvement in volumetric efficiency is enough to provide improved mpg. However because the diesel burns far far slower than petrol and the fuel is less energetic you need to burn a lot more of it to get the power which means you need a bigger engine. This means to get power from a diesel you need to burn A LOT of it....continued
Rover diesels are ultra reliable and sensibly priced- unlike those wannabe VW's, the Seat Leon Cupra R's. If they had had a rover diesel on the track with those 2 astras i think you would find the Rover had done 2 laps before they had even done 1 :P
Nothing, completely standard! You can get similar power from a DTUK box too. It tends to smoke a bit under heavy load and the power does drop slightly when its being hammered (because it needs a bigger intercooler). But its loads of fun! Both issues have never bothered me.
like it or not the gap between diesel car and petrol cars is minimal. at the end of the day you drive what you like as long as your happy, have a nice day dude,
This is the only time id choose a diesel over petrol!!
easy to answer: The proliferation of diesels was popularised by taxation. Supposedly better mpg and lower company car tax has increased the popularity. People who drive diesels, keep the real cars (i.e. the fast petrol ones) for pleasure and the weekend. And you don't get the same performance from stock vehicles, you must compare like with like, the point is the diesel car was mod'ed to the max - AND IT STILL LOST OUT.
The 888 Astra cost £120 LESS than a standard 1.9 SRi.
Shame thats not the case now 👎🤢
Oh, and be prepared for torque steer! You have to be awake haha!
It's all part of the fun though! I wouldn't change it for the world.
Focus's drive so much better and handle better but they have weak diesel engines and don't look half as good.
I'm selling my Astra for an A3 at the end of the year. I just hope the A3 isn't gonna seem boring! Gonna go for the 2.0L 170BHP diesel quattro. :)
I Had a 1.9 Sri boxed to 198bhp ... i now own a VXR sure the 888 can keep up with a STOCK VXR, you take the VXR to Stage one the 888 has no hope in hell of keeping up.
Opel have a much better build quality than Vauxhall produced vehicles.
I'm sumizing you've never looked into that fact.
You can get alot of aftermarket parts for an Opel over a Vauxhall.
Yes they have the same drive drains, floor pan, ect...
But much much better build quality.
The engines are the same, but the Opel built engine last longer and run smoother.
Don't ask me why but they do.
I guess to anybody that is financially challenged this diesel (tractor) is a good alternative. But if have got the money and want loads of fun go for a petrol sports car. Diesels lack soul. The End
it just torque steers a bit...but if vauxhall had limited the torque steer then the car would loose all of it's steering feel. It is really good to drive, the best for thrills for sure in it's class.
yeah, especially on bumpy/chambered roads. quite a handful apparently.
Yes moderate gains from a slow baseline. The only reason its tunable "via a remap" is because its a turbo. You can tube the VXR for another 50-100 horse for the same money and it would beat the diesel by an even greater margin. Its very very simple, if diesel were so great, formula one cars would use them - and guess what they don't, and for a reason. The only time in motor racing where a diesel powered vehicle has won is in recent le-mans 24hours, only because it gave good gas mileage.
I havent said for all out performance buy a diesel, but what kingchrissyp says sums up nicely, the astra does give performance AND economy, so why argue you cant have a fast diesel? The 0-60 of roughly 6.5 seconds is the same as a Civic type R which has the same bhp and weight.
They are also lower tax and in the case of the vxr and 888 which we are discussing the diesel is 3 thousand pounds cheaper. Turboing a diesel doesnt give it bad mpg, the 888 shows this, all the reviews of it say it gives 40mpg even when driven hard, the vxr would be lucky to give 20. All turbo cars have masses of torque so generally speaking are more suited to overtaking than NA petrols.
And not forgetting the C25XE 2.5V6 original came with a red engine top.
And the Z20LEH
if I remember rightly the 888 has 200BHP and 350lb/ft of torque, the VXr 240 BHP and 240lb/ft of torque, pretty even match on a tight track, the diesel torque would be very handy, what they should have done is a track race and a 1 mile drag race, just to show the top end of the cars, both are pretty good cars though. The good thing with the 888 is that you don't have to constantly change gears or worry about being in the wrong gear as much as a petrol car. And the 888 = 36MPG is pretty good.
Parkers probably doesnt take into account that the 888 is limited edition, put your impreza in parkers price guide and see if you think you would ask anything similar if you wanted to sell it.
Also I just have to comment, the BMW 335D does 23 mpg, and the fuel is more expensive (do a google search for 335D mpg) and it still takes over six seconds for a 3litre turbo and it costs £35,000 pounds, and it only produces 280 horse. 280 horse is 60 hp less than stock 2 litre petrols from Mitsubishi produce for the same money.
To be fair, you have a point. But I feel as though 20mpg extra might be a slight exaggeration. If you check out the fifth gear mini cooper petrol vs diesel the overall mpg was 19mpg diesel and 18mpg petrol, this was after they thrashed the hell out of them. I guess its all down to personal preference at the end of the day.
Gearboxes are torque multipliers. Who races in 4th at 50?🙄 put the vxr in 3rd, bye 888.
The EDS maps are good. I have a custom map from a local tuning place. It should have a bigger intercooler + a sport exhaust, but at the moment its not something I'm after. It needs suspension + brake upgrades before I ever think of making it quicker. The brakes are horrible and it struggles to put power down at times, especially roundabouts. It will wheel spin out of them, so you have to be careful. With stiffer suspension and a rear anti-roll bar fitted, it should handle the power a lot better.
The early cross over ecotecs had the red L spark plug covers, it wasn't until later all ecotecs went to black spark plug covers.
I used to work in a motorfactors and youd always get the " i need this for a red top"
You get them a part for the "red top" and fook me if the part didn't fit.
Theres plenty of morans that hear RETOP and just shout it when they get the chance to sound like the know thier stuff when they don't.
*"Oh the redtop is the best"
"which one?"
*"errrr"
@BallisticEVA01 Sillicone/cold feed turbo hoses and intercooler pipework will do the trick and should increase the power. New intercooler is better but then it also shoves your torque curve right up and eliminates the original low-down grunt. Changing your Pipework over to a cold air feed won't ruin the original grunt and It'll cost you less then installing a new intercooler. Do the pipes first and see if the pipes make a difference!
So would the fuel costs.
I've had 1 Astra GSI, 1 Cavalier GSI and a Cav turbo. (when fuel was cheap)
The engines are quick but shite on maintance, serviced them every 4k and they still fooked up.
The 1.8 is gutless at top end but it keeps on going, not matter what you through at it.
The last owner ran it for 7 months every day without oiling it.
Never blow up or missed a beat.
The C20XE smashed its prop shaft at 20mph low rev, what the f*ck!
The LET just through a piston.
Yeah because obviously just buying a car thats fast already vs actually putting some WORK into it is the more manly way of doing it.
That view is dated and does not apply to the newer diesel engines, which are not rattly old oil burners. Your username sums you up nicely, as anybody with even a slight knowledge of cars knows diesels are far to cheaper to modify for moderate gains, i.e. 50-100 bhp, as many can be done with a remap for £500.
Thats upto you, if everyone wanted the same thing in a car then there wouldnt be different models and engines etc.
Ok I will explain... Remap, High-Flow Cat and Downpipe with Connecting pipe and PD160 Air filter. nothing has been tinkered with in terms of Turbo.
If you are thinking I have had an AMD remap and stupid cat-back from Milltek or something then it would be producing about 180 at the fly... I admit though, as soon as I get into 5th and 6th around the 90mph mark I'm starting to run out of steam, but then I've shortened the gear ratios to keep the torque band at 2100rpm
no , if the cars were in 3rd it would be the same result. the 888 430nm VXR 320nm. does not sound alot, but in the real world its huge. IN ALL OUT DRAG RACE OVER A MILE . THE VXR WOULD WIN.
The cost of runnning a diesel is less, even if you run on normal petrol and not the premium stuff many performance cars use (costs the same as diesel). You said the reason they were becoming popular was because they were cheaper to run
What are you on about the diesel being modded to the max? It was still a lot cheaper than the VXR, it had LESS money spent on it. You really dont understand that for the real world a diesel car is just as fast as a petrol.
More high performance diesels are starting to be produced as the technology is catching up, look at the 335d, its 0-60 time is 6 seconds or just under and returns 35mpg plus in a big car. Diesels are becoming popular because they are improving.
Starting to get somewhere with you, it is a good alternative-thankyou. Not gonna argue that petrols arent more fun to drive - they are, but its all to do with priorities and the diesel is not that much down on performance for the increase it gives in practicality.
Your statement is fawed.
Triple 8 released the Astra 888 as thier own car, and they were never pre-registered as a Vauxhall.
So considering 888 is the manufacturer of the Astra 888 then its also stock.
As it was never been modified before it was registered.
The Thurlby 888 astra costs the same OTR price as the VXR, go check the prices....
It also has two ECU modes, a "graham norton" mode at "160 bhp" and a slightly less "graham norton", [but not much], "200 bhp" mode. So to get the mpg you have to drive it in "graham norton" mode all day long. :-P
For a university student on poor wages wanting the best combination on reliability, performance (nothing extrodinary, but as quick as other things in my price range such as saxo vtr's) and mpg, 45+ even about town then yes my rover does me fine.
i was explaining my choice of car by saying i was a university student (University of Brum so Red Brick also), hence had no money, i never lorded my education over anyone.i was just pointing out that the diesel is a good buy for someone who wants performance and reliability. I never viewed the 888 as being a tuned model as it could have been produced by Vauxhall as a standard car, and judged it on its own merit than as a souped up version. I dont take this seriously either, thankyou
I can understand wanting to sell a diesel in the first year or day, but the vxr you'll really want to keep. Also do your research the parkers guide to the vxr has a higher residual value than the diesel...
The phrase 'more money than sense' comes to mind, but i guess that in all honesty that is what it comes down to. If you really prioritise that split second in performance more than the cost saved with the diesel then fair enough go for the petrol.
The point of diesel is economy but you got to admit diesel has come on a long way in past years and they do shift and give petrol a run for there money.I think in a few years time diesel will wipe the floor with petrol and dont forget 45% of cars sold in uk are diesel.
I think it is you who is missing the point, if diesels are 'old technology' then why has the proportion of them on the road compared to petrol cars risen dramatically over the past 10 years or so and is still rising. The point of the program was to show that you can have practicality and performance in a diesel. Even on the straight line speed there is a fraction of a difference in the 2 cars in the above video and that is with 55bhp difference in the petrols favour.....think about it.
Diesel in the UK is more expensive that petrol.. LPG is creeping up as well. I used to own a Daewoo Nexia ( lol ) It ran on gas.. it was 35p a litre.. now its a fortune..
The debate we have here is the 888 v VXR - The cars are similarly matched in the review. The 1.9cdti can be made to perform like the 88 for very little money... Its cheaper, more economical, has more torque and is a lower insurance band- cheaper, and lower tax band- cheaper..
So the as per my earlier thoughts.. CDTI wins.
The diesel should feel a hell of a lot quicker with 450nm of torque compared to the 350nm of the vxr, bearing in mind that a 2009 ferrari 458 italia has 450nm of torque, but with 562bhp and a 0-60 of 3.4 seconds.
just buy a normal 150bhp astra diesel and chip it up, its as quick as a 888 but at a fraction of the cost
stock means "unmodified, as it came out the original manufacturer's factory"
hilarious my friend, they dont do a 1.1 just as an aside. Since when did a 1.1 in a car like an astra achieve the sorts of performance shown in the video above? Seriously all diesel hating aside, it deserves respect for the way it compares in that video, if you raced a civic type R against it in a straight line it would lose by exactly the same amount as the 888.
all that black smoke coming out the exhaust cant be good
in the uk. its called vauxhall astra vxr. only in the rest of europe it an opel. OPEL DONT GET THE SAME NAME FOR THIS CAR. ITS FOR THE UK ONLY. BUT THEY ARE STILL THE SAME CAR.
@Shammy214
True,
This 1.9 liter engine is very nice, but without the turbo, it would be a waste of a car.
The only problem that i can point out to my (this) car, is the huge turbo lag. If you enter a corner too fast with understeer, and you drop the revs to less than about 1800 rpm, it takes ages for it to recover.
But when it does, in beast mode (sport button pressed for 4/5 seconds), it gives you a nice kick in the back!
:)
Too bad i couldnt install this 888 kit in my car...
:(
i think your wright mate. each time vicky is on screen the 888 is wright up to her door. then it cuts back to open shot of the two cars. vxr a car lenth ahead. does look fixed the way they have done this
...continued.. You also need a turbo to make them at a minimum acceptable. This means you will not get any improvement (or at best 1-2% better) over a petrol engine producing the same power, driving in the same manner, in mpg. When you consider petrol is 3% cheaper than diesel and the servicing costs of diesels are much higher, and you pay a premium for a diesel (unbelievable but often true), then the diesel is not only an inferior, slower drive, its also more expensive...continued....
the second test was not about which gear the car was in its to demonstrate. torque,
You have quoted the urban mpg, combined is 30mpg, i cant think of a similar performance petrol of the same size which would do that. You compare litres and bhp from them as though it matters. Vtec engines can produce 100bhp per litre or more, it doesnt mean that all performance cars use the V-tech technology.
The half a second difference around the track might do some people to order all of their thoughts.
@larssonk22
To tell u the truth, the Sport button has 2 modes.
If u press it normally, it changes the electronics, throtle response is much faster and sharpens steering.
But if you press it for more than 4 or 5 seconds, it turns all driver aids of (traction and stability control), i already spun it. :)
But im not so sure about the ABS, because in this mode i already locked up the tyres in braking. Also, my car has already turned safe mode on while driving to its corner limits in the highway.
When you're pushing 180bhp at the wheels in my car that's now grabbing 290ft lb a torque then yes, I can easily stay with VXR's, FOCUS ST's and 3 MPS'
There's no need for dreamin sunshine! The lag in the VXR is ridiculous! 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear I'm gonna see them in the mirrors!
Easy decision: I'll have the faster petrol, didn't take half a second to decide that...
"Opel, the European subsidiary of General Motors, and is part of GM Europe
"Vauxhall Motors is a British automobile company. It is a subsidiary of General Motors Corporation (GM), and is part of GM Europe"
Vauxhall and Opel are part of the same company group, however I don't see "888, a subsidiary of general motors anywhere"
QED. LMFAO....
I would also prefer you to drive a light car with no safety equipment.
WOW! i didn't know that.
I'm not arguing they are a different company or owned by a different company.
The build quility is completely different, the opel built vehicles last alot longer and ride better than the Vauxhall built vehicles.
The vxr is a higher trim spec (alloys etc) than the diesel, its a faster car, you would expect it to cost more out of the box.
You spend the same on mods for a like for like comparison. Furthermore in any motor racing event the classes are modified or unmodified. As you rightly pointed out, it still has 55 horse more than the diesel without a single modification.
--Keep the diesels on the farm...
So if you want to go slower and pay more for it buy the diesel.
However if your a rep and wants to chug along on the motorway, don't mind sitting behind slow vehicles on A road because you don't have the power to overtake, not really bothered about fast acceleration and thrilling pleasurable drive, buy something like an Astra or Vectra diesel.
...continued...
they handle like that because the frame is worthiness if the frame were at least 80% better they wouldn't understear like they bo but at least the VXR8 is the best out of the VXR'S
Thats the point. Diesel wins on in gear acceleration due to the torque...
The drag race in Ali G was faster than this
Than that's it:)If someone is buying car for fun,racing and performance the VXR is a possible solution. If buying for transportation and low price per mileage, don't buy CDT. You'd be better of with smaller diesel turbo engine
And btw, diesel cars are usually more expensive because lots of people want it for its high mileage and lower fuel prices.So it's better getting gasoline and convert it on LPG before rest of the world does it too. LPG fuel price will be winner in owners wallet in long term
Hmm, I used to have an Astra VXR. Rolling start, if she stuck it in 3rd, rolling at 30mph she would have dusted him. It was crap off the line as the power band is too short and it revved to quick, so you had to skip gears. However 30-70mph it went like a b******
@Enzer89
Thanks mate, you made my point! :)
Exactly! Not to mention the huge puff of smoke like an oil tanker that these tuned diesel cars make...
My point is: want a sports car... buy petrol! Period!
If i could, i would swap my 1.9 150 hp Astra for a OPC(VXR) one, anytime!!!
But im glad with my car though... 150 hp is enough to play and be economical at the same time.
:)
Also you say you would expect it to cost more....? Why? It probably wouldnt cost the extra 2k spent on the VXR to get the diesel upto the same spec (alloys etc). The video above shows that the diesel version is VERY close performance wise compared to the VXR end of story, the video shows it. Try and argue that a VXR putting out 195bhp or if the diesel put out 240bhp that the diesel wouldnt have won. It was embarassingly close for the petrol with its extra 2k and extra 55bhp as it was.
You've missed the point. The calorific value of the fuel is lower, so the engine will be less powerful simple fact. The real point is dispite all the work and effort spent, the diesel is still slower, its an inferior technology period, so why waste your time, the point of tuning is to go fast, and it that respect this fails and therefore tuning the diesel is pointless. If you want to tune to go fast you start with a faster baseline, i.e. the petrol engine.
I hear Mcdonalds are handing out degrees now, maybe he studies there. I guess the old chip fat would come in handy
You only need the serious torque if your car is heavy. more weight, the more torque you need.
f1 cars weigh a few hundred kgs.. hence not much torque considering their performance.
yes true BUT IF THE DIESEL WAS IN THIRD THE RESULT WOULD BE THE SAME, 888 HAS TO MUCH TORQUE.
STRAIGHT DRAG RACE UP TO TOP SPEED VXR WOULD WIN THAT.
BUT 888 NOT JUST ABOUT TOPSPEED. POWER COMBINED WITH GREAT MPG
says you. I dont see how you have managed to proove that the 888 is a slow car or is not cheaper to run than an equivalent petrol?...?
i want a vxr with the looks of the 888
The wit is never ending with you..... Doesnt it grate on you that your Impreza only pushes out 250bhp (according to your other post), when all the GOOD ones do 280bhp plus?
You have apparently given up on the whole 'diesels are slow, the 888 astra is slow' argument. Shame, it was more fun picking apart the blatant inconsistencies and the missing logic. Oh well the farm jokes are good as well...
You have just completely changed your argument, before you claimed that the diesel cost more now you are saying the VXR is bound to cost more...? You talk about modifications, but the astra could come out of the factory with that spec, just like the VXR does, how much more do you think they spend eeking 240bhp out of their petrol engine than bothering on the diesel? You make it sound like petrol naturally has lots of bhp-not the case, lots of money is spent getting the most out of both fuel type
For the rolling race: "50mph in 4th gear"...shouldn't the VXR have been in 3rd to utilise it's power? I think that's why it lost.
True even though when you made that comment I was being born lol
You at least have the choice of good fuel economy, even driving a vxr as economically as possible you wouldnt get much over 30mpg, i would put money on 30mpg being easily achievable in sport mode on the 888. At 5min 5secs she points out the price difference, and the diesel would be a lot easier to live with.
@moschops21 I totally agree with you. I used to drive the 1.8 SRi VVT's at enterprise rent a car, I almost lived in them. I got to test them on all types of scenario's. Funny thing is they actually feel faster then what my own remapped Seat Leon FR feels like. Its a false perception of fast acceleration with petrols. I was in a red 1.8 sporthatch SRI with the S switched on and tried to keep up with a europcar Sport hatch CDTI 150. 4,000-6,000 hard revs of sheer 1.8 brutality never touched it.
just call me 'crazy talking diesel boy who drives a rover from the farm'.
Check out Regal Autosport on you tube, apply the same tuning to the VXR and you get nearly 400BHP. Thats twice as much as the 888..
I dont care about the petrol version, why would i want to add to the expenses of running one if i couldnt afford to run a vxr (or couldnt justify running one) anyway.
Nice cars the Astras are
I can't even afford a mars bar
👍🏻🇮🇪
I'm a qualified mechanic, although it is no longer my profession, I do know what I am talking about. I don't just order the parts - I fit them too.