In hindsight, I can’t believe I misread the “flash forward” of Blackthorne and his grandkids! When we saw that, I was thinking that we were learning that we’d been seeing him remembering his days in Japan before he passes but afterward there were so many clues I didn’t pick up showing that’s a future he was dreaming of but would never have! Welp, that’s a real reaction for you, sometimes you make mistakes haha even so, it doesn’t change how I feel about this amazing show! I’m going to miss it!
The book says that Blackthorne's "karma" would never leave Japan, which allows for a big of interpretive wiggle-room. The original mini-series much more strongly suggets (in the voice of Orson Welles) that Blackthorne's karma brought him to Japan and would never let him leave it (basically, that he was destined to be a prisoner of Toranaga-- and Japan-- for the rest of his days, focusing eerily on the presiding figure of the legendary Toshiro Mifune as Toranaga. Just in terms of the satisfaction of the ending, I think the original mini-series wins. It's definitely eerier and leaves a more chilling impression of Toranaga having played everyone, including the audience.
By the way, in case anyone is wondering, 15 years after the battle Toranaga talks about, the real life Toranaga (Tokugawa) ends up besieging Osaka even after the heir and his mom submitted to him. In the end, he decided they would always be a threat to his Shogunate as long as they were alive, just by virtue of the Taiko's legacy. In order for him to bring peace to Japan uncontested, he believed he would have to remove all threats to his authority, including the heir he once swore to protect. So just keep that in mind, we're not following "the good guys" here so much as the winners. And it often takes a cold, calculating heart to be a winner. And as he says in the end, "Anything is possible if you win". Because history has no use for a saintly loser.
@@bluepearl_22 some might see that as a negative thing, but during the time that the Tokugawa Shogunate ruled during the Edo period, Japan became a relatively peaceful country because the whole nation was unified under Tokugawa's rule and eventually under his descendents rule, and Japan as an economy prospered. So on one hand even though Japan was very much isolated from the rest of the world during the Edo period, but on the other hand it became a peaceful & unified country with a strong economy & life was good at the time, no more bloody wars between feudal lords. So while Tokugawa was very cunning, calculating and ruthless with his tactics sometimes, but he did make Japan a better and more peaceful country, so he did what he did for the greater good, even though it was also for his own ambitions.
It's hard to predict what would've happened if he didn't became Shogun. Japan was already under the influence of Portuguese, and maybe the best thing for Japan was that he closed the border so no one outside could manipulate people. It's obvious that Japan was target of few Europeans colonizing forces and he "cut them in the roots" and stopped them for 200 years.
If Toranaga had all of those cannons... his entire compliment of soldiers before the landslide... I think he stood a good chance of pulling off (the proposed concept of) "Crimson Sky" AND if the landslide didn't happen he very likely would still have stuck with the plan of using Mariko to do what she had to do. I think we would have needed two more episodes if there would have been a battle and it would have been E P I C !! Usami Fuji and even Toda Hiromatsu earned their peaceful endings. I loved the full circle hat trick of these quotes... "Unless I win." "Why tell a dead man the future?" "Let your hands be the last to hold her." This one broke me Thinking about it now, I do appreciate Yabushige's death poem.
Also, there was a scene earlier with Omi and Yabushige about informing Toranaga re the Anjin's ship, where Yabu said to Omi, "Why tell a Deadman the future." - something of that sort. Toranaga before cutting Yabu's head off said to Yabu the same thing. That's when Yabu realized, I guess 😅
When Torunaga let that bird go and said 'go bear many daughters' it was kinda like him saying goodbye to Mariko who was very useful to him but also symbolic cos she never 'hunted' before until Torunaga invited her to one and she marvelled at the 'steel bird' in a way its like he's releasing her from her duty and is mourning in his own way. I love the use of poems in this show to reveal a person's inner heart/secret heart. Mariko's words are always lauded as unbeatable and in her poem Ochiba asked her son how he would continue it. The Heir's words show his innocence - he sees the possibilities of fruits and flowers. But Ochiba ocntinues with the Wind. When Toranaga talks with Yabu about commandingthe wind you realise that she's speaking of him and that is when she reveals her secret alliance with him. I guess that the poem Mariko wrote and her continuation was what she wrote to Toranaga and is enough to state her intent of their alliance, given that he spoke the poem Mariko said to him and he wept in his own silent way. Yabu's poem was also simple, short and to the point. He wants to be useful even in death in so far as he can try to fight but if he loses (relevant to John's first words to Toranaga) then he is simply meat for hungry dogs. In John's seppuku he speaks the words Mariko said in her last breath, showing that he not only learns language fast but also that he has taken her lesson to heart - Life and Death are the same and both can be used as weapons and not useless at all. John can make Toranaga do what he wants but either way, he gets to die and join Mariko in death. He contemplated that future - dying old and alone clutching unto the memories but decided 'fuck it' In that whole scene, we know later that it was Toranaga who burnt his ship understanding that Mariko bargained for his life. And yet Toranga insisted on punishing the village to test John and his resolve. He claimed he had given up his war when the very reason he is alive is cos his witty response to Toranaga amused him so much he kept him around. And yet he is willing to give up his life for this small petty reason as the village same to how Toranaga found his depression around the gardeners death petty and small - John calls the whole religious war with the Portugeuse 'small' contrasting ep 2 where Toranaga's conflict with the regents seemed small in comparison to this new larger global threat John revealed to them about the Spanish-Portuguese treaty. In the scene where John and Fuji sat together, you can see the lessons that Kuki the courtesan taught in the WIllow World - the empty space beside John framing him and Fuji as they sit is highlighting that the empty space is an absence that can be seen and felt, t he absence of Mariko in their lives. I love the scene Omi takes his gun and sword - mirroring the conflict in early episode down to Fuji behind him but this time they're both so broken by their losses and trials there's no other for fighting anymore - which is a mirror to the entire conflict as a whole: to fight without fighting, to win before the war even starts. Toranaga won before they fought at Sekigahara. Also the poetry of just Yabu almost dying on a cliff to being executed on a cliff. Mariko's words that Fuji used to say 'let your hands be the last to hold her'
A dream of a dream. Blackthrone getting old in Europe didn't happen. It was a dream. Mariko was a willing pawn while the others were simply pawns. Torunaga knew her life's purpose and used it for a series of events that would make him win. All other pawns were just side quests for his main plot. Even at the end he didn't confirm his secret heart but directed the wind into it. By the way, you like Paul Dano from Girl Next Door?
Mariko to Fuji and her baby in the first episode: “Let her hands be the last to hold her child.” Fuji to John in the final episode: “Let your hands be the last to hold her.” ….. poetic full circle. 😢
Fun fact I just learned from another react channel- the scene where Blackthorne and Fuji scatter their loved ones' ashes was shot at the same body of water where James Clavell (author of the original book) had his ashes scattered.
Ok so imo Blackthorne pictured himself in the future as a senile, blind old man dying essentially alone with only a few tokens of the most important time of his life, including Mariko. This would be a sad fate. By the end he lets this dream of going "home" go to make the most of where he is now. He lets go of his symbol of grief and convinces Fuji to do the same, so she doesn’t really have to go and be a nun just to be close to her family's remains. Holding onto the past is only useful when it actually serves a present purpose.
Best compliment I can give this show. In a world of streaming and on demand, I was constantly checking the time to see when i could watch it immediately.
I'm so happy I found your channel through the Shogun reactions! Truly, you're one of the best on this platform. I already watched like four other reacts from you, from Severance to TLOU, and of course gained a new sub. I'm gonna go through some other playlists as well (Ted Lasso is next!) and looking forward to new reacts coming out! :)
I don't think Toronaga was lying exactly about wanting to be shogun. But he decided the only way for the civil wars of Japan to end was for a return of the shogunate.
@7:16 I am the second Red Samurai on the left. I am actually suprised that I made it in because the scene was actually different when we filmed and I was booted off set because I was a bit clumsy with my bow and arrow. We where supposed to hit our marks and draw on the Portugese. I guess they completely redid the scene and edited in what they had of us.
Wondering...did many of the extras shave their heads or was it all prostetics? It looked so real. Well anyway, congrats on making it into such a great series, something to tell the grandkids about someday.
@@farmgirlrebel1333 Like fred below said it was prosthetics at least for the Samurai but apparently those playing the buddhist monks had to shave theirs and I heard one guy had no clue that he had to so it came to a shock for him but he went along with it in the end. They basically put on a bald cap first tape it down to your head then put on the fake hair piece in the back with clips. Then start spritzing you with makeup to blend the color of the bald cap and our skin together.
Whether people see Torunaga as a villain or not, I think it depends on which perspective you look at it. His ultimate goal was for Japan to become a peaceful and unified nation, without constant wars between the different feudal lords. But he was ruthless and cunning in the sense that he used the people around him as his pawns to achieve his goal, even though it was all for the greater good of Japan. In reality the real person that Torunaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu had the same goals, and he was able to unify Japan, and under his rule, Japan became a peaceful and unified nation with a strong and prosperous economy for over 200 years. But he too was very manipulative and strategic and ruthless sometimes in his tactics and actions. He did ultimately do all these things for the greater good, to make Japan a better place, so in that sense it's not really "villainous", it's actually more heroic, his goal. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good. He can be a villain and hero at the same time, on one hand, Torunaga's actions can be seen as "villainous" for his ruthless and manipulative actions, but at the same time he's also a hero for creating a better world for Japan for the next 200+ years.
John never left Japan as Toranaga said . And Fugi did not become a nun! Like the original 2 part series she stayed with John and they lived together happily!
also like others have mentioned before, the opening sequence which you thought was a flash forward was actually just a dream that Blackthorne had, which ultimate did not happen, he eventually stayed in Japan for the rest of his life.
When Toranaga says “why tell a dead man the future” it’s a callback to episode 1 when Yabushige said the same line to his nephew talking about Toranaga.
Toranaga's moves were really more of a game of Go rather than Chess. In the end, he fenced off all of Ishido's options, thereby negating any viable path forward for him and securing his own victory.
The flash forward wasn't real. It was a potential future Blackthorne envisioned but ultimately decided to give up on during the moment right before he decided to try committing sepukku. Hence why he said "fuck it" after looking at the cross. There were also different clues hinting at the fact that the flash forward was a dream, for example those scenes were primarily shown when he was unconscious or when he was re-gaining consciousness and stopped after the aforementioned scene, him dropping Marikos cross into the lake despite holding it in the flash forward, the fact his "grandchildren" thought "savages" gave him the katana even though at that point he clearly wouldn't have used that term when telling them his story. At least that's how I took it.
24:27 you, like most initial reactors, get this part wrong. This show has been about him moving all the pieces in a way that, when he finally does enter the battlefield, he will emerge victorious. This is all an elaborate setup that eventually leads to the battle of Sekigahara.
Yeah that’s where I got confused, I know of the Battle of Sekigahara hence why I perked up there but then I thought they did a historical revision for the story the show was telling since they acted like the battle didn’t happen
@@Omn1Media the battle had just not happened yet. I honestly thought that that face off would be the last thing before they cut to the end credits by episode 7, because they had no time to show the actual battle. But I love what they executed here.
Really sorry dude - but the fact you completely misread the opening "dream" sequence - the future that Blackthorne will never have - kinda made me stop listening. Nice emotional look to camera though...
I think Toranaga see's Blackthorne as child at first but then gains his respect during the progression of the show I also think Toranaga thinks of Mariko as the daughter he never had because he was deeply emotional with her death Also the whole show about "meaningful death" is so powerful
History tells us what happened. This was the the genesis of the Edo era that lasted well over 200 years. Fun fact: The city of Edo eventually became Tokyo.
This show is fantastic! I love that even though we're kind of on Toranaga's "side", he's still not a good guy. He's a hypocrite. Everyone is so layered. Astounding work.
@numanumame If you replay the explosion slowly or frame by frame you will see the intact door hit her before it broke up. She was standing just inches from it when it slammed into her.
「オーガは、彼が足元に花を押しつぶした瞬間に、彼の貴重な葉のない枝を失いました。結局のところ、姉妹」 “The Ogre lost his precious Leafless Branch the moment he crushed the Flower underfoot; sisters in the end, after all” Yabushige and Toranaga smiling at each other in the end. He got the best end he could have gotten, considering all he has done, realizing that whether he knew it or not, he has served his Lord Toranaga excellently. Blackthorne kills a possible future version of himself-an old man, filled with regret-by mirroring Mariko (literally doing a ritual su!c!d3 like a woman [a blade through the heart] instead of seppuku [slicing his belly open] like a samurai would) in order to protect Ajiro: the first completely selfless thing he has done in the show. They actually managed to tie up most, if not all, loose ends without sacrificing the pacing and the rhythm that they built up from the past 9 episodes. So who is ready for a “new/separate” mini-series, titled “Sekigahara”?
@@tonypee3465 that would be Edo period. Fun fact: Musashi was actually in Ishido’s army or under one of his retainers during the actual battle of Sekigahara. 47 ronin also happens during the early years of the Edo period.
What a beautiful, brutal and memorable show this has been - I've loved every chess move! Excellent analysis, as always - it's been a pleasure watching this alongside you and hearing your thoughts! Great job!
21:17 Just like what Mariko said to Fuji about her baby... And yes I think it's the "same one" because Grandpa Blackthorne is dream. He never left Japan.
Torunaga did a perfect execution of the way to win a lasting peace: with minimal bloodshed. If you win in a bloody slaughter, you’ll never really be safe because there will always be those that want vengeance. If you can instead outmaneuver your opponents so fucking hard that they just give up, it’s more likely that you can just fold former opponents into a new regime with you at the head and, if need be, they run into some “bandits” in a forest down the road? Well… 🤷🏻♂️
depends on how you look at it, his ultimate goal was for Japan to become a peaceful and unified nation, without constant wars between the different feudal lords. But he was ruthless and cunning in the sense that he used the people around him as his pawns to achieve his goal, even though it was all for the greater good of Japan. In reality the real person that Torunaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu had the same goals, and he was able to unify Japan, and under his rule, Japan became a peaceful and unified nation with a strong and prosperous economy for over 200 years. I guess it really depends on how you define 'villain', I guess Torunaga was a "villain" in the sense that he was very ruthless and cunning, but he did ultimately do all these things for the greater good, to make Japan a better place, so in that sense it's not really "villainous". Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good.
The Taiko's old wife said in the first episode to Toranaga: "Now it is not the time for good men. Now it is the time for a shogun." It was out in the open from the beginning.
I LOVE that for all that outside Japan the world rises under Blackthorns religion but inside of Japan he is nothing more than a jester/ a useful tool. He had no great role he imagined himself.
![[Limbus Company - Teaser] Season5 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8anKuEeZLeI/mqdefault.jpg)
In hindsight, I can’t believe I misread the “flash forward” of Blackthorne and his grandkids! When we saw that, I was thinking that we were learning that we’d been seeing him remembering his days in Japan before he passes but afterward there were so many clues I didn’t pick up showing that’s a future he was dreaming of but would never have! Welp, that’s a real reaction for you, sometimes you make mistakes haha even so, it doesn’t change how I feel about this amazing show! I’m going to miss it!
The book says that Blackthorne's "karma" would never leave Japan, which allows for a big of interpretive wiggle-room. The original mini-series much more strongly suggets (in the voice of Orson Welles) that Blackthorne's karma brought him to Japan and would never let him leave it (basically, that he was destined to be a prisoner of Toranaga-- and Japan-- for the rest of his days, focusing eerily on the presiding figure of the legendary Toshiro Mifune as Toranaga. Just in terms of the satisfaction of the ending, I think the original mini-series wins. It's definitely eerier and leaves a more chilling impression of Toranaga having played everyone, including the audience.
to be honest, I didn't realize it until I read this
all poetic stuff
By the way, in case anyone is wondering, 15 years after the battle Toranaga talks about, the real life Toranaga (Tokugawa) ends up besieging Osaka even after the heir and his mom submitted to him. In the end, he decided they would always be a threat to his Shogunate as long as they were alive, just by virtue of the Taiko's legacy. In order for him to bring peace to Japan uncontested, he believed he would have to remove all threats to his authority, including the heir he once swore to protect. So just keep that in mind, we're not following "the good guys" here so much as the winners. And it often takes a cold, calculating heart to be a winner. And as he says in the end, "Anything is possible if you win". Because history has no use for a saintly loser.
True. He also initiated the 200 year lockdown of Japan as far as I know.
@@bluepearl_22 some might see that as a negative thing, but during the time that the Tokugawa Shogunate ruled during the Edo period, Japan became a relatively peaceful country because the whole nation was unified under Tokugawa's rule and eventually under his descendents rule, and Japan as an economy prospered. So on one hand even though Japan was very much isolated from the rest of the world during the Edo period, but on the other hand it became a peaceful & unified country with a strong economy & life was good at the time, no more bloody wars between feudal lords. So while Tokugawa was very cunning, calculating and ruthless with his tactics sometimes, but he did make Japan a better and more peaceful country, so he did what he did for the greater good, even though it was also for his own ambitions.
あなたは日本と東京の歴史をよく理解している！good！👍
It's hard to predict what would've happened if he didn't became Shogun. Japan was already under the influence of Portuguese, and maybe the best thing for Japan was that he closed the border so no one outside could manipulate people. It's obvious that Japan was target of few Europeans colonizing forces and he "cut them in the roots" and stopped them for 200 years.
But they were a threat and did actively threaten Tokugawa. They weren't just quietly minding their own business. *Siege of Osaka
If Toranaga had all of those cannons... his entire compliment of soldiers before the landslide... I think he stood a good chance of pulling off (the proposed concept of) "Crimson Sky" AND if the landslide didn't happen he very likely would still have stuck with the plan of using Mariko to do what she had to do.
I think we would have needed two more episodes if there would have been a battle and it would have been E P I C !!
Usami Fuji and even Toda Hiromatsu earned their peaceful endings.
I loved the full circle hat trick of these quotes...
"Unless I win."
"Why tell a dead man the future?"
"Let your hands be the last to hold her." This one broke me
Thinking about it now, I do appreciate Yabushige's death poem.
There was a battle. The battle of Sekigahara. But the show is not about war on the battlefield but between the characters - and inside them.
Also, there was a scene earlier with Omi and Yabushige about informing Toranaga re the Anjin's ship, where Yabu said to Omi, "Why tell a Deadman the future." - something of that sort. Toranaga before cutting Yabu's head off said to Yabu the same thing. That's when Yabu realized, I guess 😅
Toranaga always knew.
In toranaga's book, even traitors can play a huge part or be very useful and even enhance your master plan.
When Torunaga let that bird go and said 'go bear many daughters' it was kinda like him saying goodbye to Mariko who was very useful to him but also symbolic cos she never 'hunted' before until Torunaga invited her to one and she marvelled at the 'steel bird' in a way its like he's releasing her from her duty and is mourning in his own way.
I love the use of poems in this show to reveal a person's inner heart/secret heart. Mariko's words are always lauded as unbeatable and in her poem Ochiba asked her son how he would continue it. The Heir's words show his innocence - he sees the possibilities of fruits and flowers. But Ochiba ocntinues with the Wind. When Toranaga talks with Yabu about commandingthe wind you realise that she's speaking of him and that is when she reveals her secret alliance with him. I guess that the poem Mariko wrote and her continuation was what she wrote to Toranaga and is enough to state her intent of their alliance, given that he spoke the poem Mariko said to him and he wept in his own silent way. Yabu's poem was also simple, short and to the point. He wants to be useful even in death in so far as he can try to fight but if he loses (relevant to John's first words to Toranaga) then he is simply meat for hungry dogs.
In John's seppuku he speaks the words Mariko said in her last breath, showing that he not only learns language fast but also that he has taken her lesson to heart - Life and Death are the same and both can be used as weapons and not useless at all. John can make Toranaga do what he wants but either way, he gets to die and join Mariko in death. He contemplated that future - dying old and alone clutching unto the memories but decided 'fuck it'
In that whole scene, we know later that it was Toranaga who burnt his ship understanding that Mariko bargained for his life. And yet Toranga insisted on punishing the village to test John and his resolve. He claimed he had given up his war when the very reason he is alive is cos his witty response to Toranaga amused him so much he kept him around. And yet he is willing to give up his life for this small petty reason as the village same to how Toranaga found his depression around the gardeners death petty and small - John calls the whole religious war with the Portugeuse 'small' contrasting ep 2 where Toranaga's conflict with the regents seemed small in comparison to this new larger global threat John revealed to them about the Spanish-Portuguese treaty.
In the scene where John and Fuji sat together, you can see the lessons that Kuki the courtesan taught in the WIllow World - the empty space beside John framing him and Fuji as they sit is highlighting that the empty space is an absence that can be seen and felt, t he absence of Mariko in their lives.
I love the scene Omi takes his gun and sword - mirroring the conflict in early episode down to Fuji behind him but this time they're both so broken by their losses and trials there's no other for fighting anymore - which is a mirror to the entire conflict as a whole: to fight without fighting, to win before the war even starts. Toranaga won before they fought at Sekigahara.
Also the poetry of just Yabu almost dying on a cliff to being executed on a cliff. Mariko's words that Fuji used to say 'let your hands be the last to hold her'
Best show ever
Day 16 of petitioning you to watch Murderdrones
A dream of a dream. Blackthrone getting old in Europe didn't happen. It was a dream. Mariko was a willing pawn while the others were simply pawns. Torunaga knew her life's purpose and used it for a series of events that would make him win. All other pawns were just side quests for his main plot. Even at the end he didn't confirm his secret heart but directed the wind into it. By the way, you like Paul Dano from Girl Next Door?
Mariko to Fuji and her baby in the first episode:
“Let her hands be the last to hold her child.”
Fuji to John in the final episode:
“Let your hands be the last to hold her.”
….. poetic full circle. 😢
Fun fact I just learned from another react channel- the scene where Blackthorne and Fuji scatter their loved ones' ashes was shot at the same body of water where James Clavell (author of the original book) had his ashes scattered.
What channel?
@@ras_alhim Reel Rejects- it was in the comments there
That is correct. It's called Howe Sound and his home overlooked the water.
this has to be one of the best shows ive seen in a while
Ok so imo Blackthorne pictured himself in the future as a senile, blind old man dying essentially alone with only a few tokens of the most important time of his life, including Mariko. This would be a sad fate. By the end he lets this dream of going "home" go to make the most of where he is now. He lets go of his symbol of grief and convinces Fuji to do the same, so she doesn’t really have to go and be a nun just to be close to her family's remains. Holding onto the past is only useful when it actually serves a present purpose.
I think old Blackthorn was not real. Just a dream how his life would look like if he returned to England and never let go of Mariko
Best compliment I can give this show.
In a world of streaming and on demand, I was constantly checking the time to see when i could watch it immediately.
I'm so happy I found your channel through the Shogun reactions! Truly, you're one of the best on this platform. I already watched like four other reacts from you, from Severance to TLOU, and of course gained a new sub. I'm gonna go through some other playlists as well (Ted Lasso is next!) and looking forward to new reacts coming out! :)
I don't think Toronaga was lying exactly about wanting to be shogun. But he decided the only way for the civil wars of Japan to end was for a return of the shogunate.
Nah...in the books, at the very end, it is made clear that Shogun was Toranaga's life long ambition, it was brilliant.
@7:16 I am the second Red Samurai on the left. I am actually suprised that I made it in because the scene was actually different when we filmed and I was booted off set because I was a bit clumsy with my bow and arrow. We where supposed to hit our marks and draw on the Portugese. I guess they completely redid the scene and edited in what they had of us.
Hahah glad you made it to this beautiful series.
Wondering...did many of the extras shave their heads or was it all prostetics? It looked so real. Well anyway, congrats on making it into such a great series, something to tell the grandkids about someday.
@@farmgirlrebel1333 it was prostetics man.
@@farmgirlrebel1333 Like fred below said it was prosthetics at least for the Samurai but apparently those playing the buddhist monks had to shave theirs and I heard one guy had no clue that he had to so it came to a shock for him but he went along with it in the end.
They basically put on a bald cap first tape it down to your head then put on the fake hair piece in the back with clips. Then start spritzing you with makeup to blend the color of the bald cap and our skin together.
In chess you sometimes have to sacrifice your queen
Whether people see Torunaga as a villain or not, I think it depends on which perspective you look at it. His ultimate goal was for Japan to become a peaceful and unified nation, without constant wars between the different feudal lords. But he was ruthless and cunning in the sense that he used the people around him as his pawns to achieve his goal, even though it was all for the greater good of Japan. In reality the real person that Torunaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu had the same goals, and he was able to unify Japan, and under his rule, Japan became a peaceful and unified nation with a strong and prosperous economy for over 200 years. But he too was very manipulative and strategic and ruthless sometimes in his tactics and actions. He did ultimately do all these things for the greater good, to make Japan a better place, so in that sense it's not really "villainous", it's actually more heroic, his goal. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good. He can be a villain and hero at the same time, on one hand, Torunaga's actions can be seen as "villainous" for his ruthless and manipulative actions, but at the same time he's also a hero for creating a better world for Japan for the next 200+ years.
Agreed, I see Torunaga as an antihero
John never left Japan as Toranaga said . And Fugi did not become a nun! Like the original 2 part series she stayed with John and they lived together happily!
also like others have mentioned before, the opening sequence which you thought was a flash forward was actually just a dream that Blackthorne had, which ultimate did not happen, he eventually stayed in Japan for the rest of his life.
When Toranaga says “why tell a dead man the future” it’s a callback to episode 1 when Yabushige said the same line to his nephew talking about Toranaga.
Such a great last episode.
I must say, was very surprised to see how good this series was. Can't wait to read the novelization. Oh, wait. . . .
Excellent show. One of the best I've ever seen. My 3 favorite characters.
1. Mariko
2. Yabushige
3. Fuji
The end of the book is even more "anticlimactic" because there the conversation between Toronaga and Yabu was just an inner monologue from Toronaga.
Toranaga's moves were really more of a game of Go rather than Chess. In the end, he fenced off all of Ishido's options, thereby negating any viable path forward for him and securing his own victory.
The flash forward wasn't real. It was a potential future Blackthorne envisioned but ultimately decided to give up on during the moment right before he decided to try committing sepukku. Hence why he said "fuck it" after looking at the cross. There were also different clues hinting at the fact that the flash forward was a dream, for example those scenes were primarily shown when he was unconscious or when he was re-gaining consciousness and stopped after the aforementioned scene, him dropping Marikos cross into the lake despite holding it in the flash forward, the fact his "grandchildren" thought "savages" gave him the katana even though at that point he clearly wouldn't have used that term when telling them his story. At least that's how I took it.
実際のウイリアム·アダムスは20年日本に滞在して、55才で亡くなった。その頃には、日本や台湾の利権のほとんどはオランダが手に入れてしまった。
A season without Yabushige is very boring...Is there anyone else who is the same? From Japanese person.
24:27 you, like most initial reactors, get this part wrong. This show has been about him moving all the pieces in a way that, when he finally does enter the battlefield, he will emerge victorious.
This is all an elaborate setup that eventually leads to the battle of Sekigahara.
Yeah that’s where I got confused, I know of the Battle of Sekigahara hence why I perked up there but then I thought they did a historical revision for the story the show was telling since they acted like the battle didn’t happen
@@Omn1Media the battle had just not happened yet. I honestly thought that that face off would be the last thing before they cut to the end credits by episode 7, because they had no time to show the actual battle. But I love what they executed here.
Really sorry dude - but the fact you completely misread the opening "dream" sequence - the future that Blackthorne will never have - kinda made me stop listening. Nice emotional look to camera though...
Yeah I thought we were seeing him remembering his time in Japan and that we’d be seeing his dying memories. Can’t get it right every time.
@Omn1Media but he's clutching her cross. After we just saw him put it in the ocean.
I think Toranaga see's Blackthorne as child at first but then gains his respect during the progression of the show
I also think Toranaga thinks of Mariko as the daughter he never had because he was deeply emotional with her death
Also the whole show about "meaningful death" is so powerful
I'm happy to have traveled this far with you. Big thank you!
10/10 show.
History tells us what happened. This was the the genesis of the Edo era that lasted well over 200 years. Fun fact: The city of Edo eventually became Tokyo.
This show is fantastic! I love that even though we're kind of on Toranaga's "side", he's still not a good guy. He's a hypocrite. Everyone is so layered. Astounding work.
Great reaction as always!
2:11 Well clearly he thought that Mariko would be captured not killed because that was the plan.
Another interesting period piece that just dropped is Shardlake.
I thought she would have been obliterated or at least have splinters in her back 🫣
If I were to nitpick, that was the only thing, even Blackthorne looked more damaged that dummy/model used for Mariko-sama.
I was expecting a severed head and missing limbs. Might have watched and played too much fallout. Still best tv series 2024.
They mention it before going inside, that the wall is thick. probably she died by the impact from chunk of thick door.
@numanumame If you replay the explosion slowly or frame by frame you will see the intact door hit her before it broke up. She was standing just inches from it when it slammed into her.
「オーガは、彼が足元に花を押しつぶした瞬間に、彼の貴重な葉のない枝を失いました。結局のところ、姉妹」
“The Ogre lost his precious Leafless Branch the moment he crushed the Flower underfoot; sisters in the end, after all”
Yabushige and Toranaga smiling at each other in the end. He got the best end he could have gotten, considering all he has done, realizing that whether he knew it or not, he has served his Lord Toranaga excellently.
Blackthorne kills a possible future version of himself-an old man, filled with regret-by mirroring Mariko (literally doing a ritual su!c!d3 like a woman [a blade through the heart] instead of seppuku [slicing his belly open] like a samurai would) in order to protect Ajiro: the first completely selfless thing he has done in the show.
They actually managed to tie up most, if not all, loose ends without sacrificing the pacing and the rhythm that they built up from the past 9 episodes.
So who is ready for a “new/separate” mini-series, titled “Sekigahara”?
what about after sekigahara a.k.a Musashi.
@@tonypee3465 that would be Edo period. Fun fact: Musashi was actually in Ishido’s army or under one of his retainers during the actual battle of Sekigahara.
47 ronin also happens during the early years of the Edo period.
✨❤️🔥✨💫💫🔺🔆👍
What a beautiful, brutal and memorable show this has been - I've loved every chess move! Excellent analysis, as always - it's been a pleasure watching this alongside you and hearing your thoughts! Great job!
21:17 Just like what Mariko said to Fuji about her baby... And yes I think it's the "same one" because Grandpa Blackthorne is dream. He never left Japan.
Torunaga did a perfect execution of the way to win a lasting peace: with minimal bloodshed. If you win in a bloody slaughter, you’ll never really be safe because there will always be those that want vengeance. If you can instead outmaneuver your opponents so fucking hard that they just give up, it’s more likely that you can just fold former opponents into a new regime with you at the head and, if need be, they run into some “bandits” in a forest down the road? Well… 🤷🏻♂️
Best show about a chess match since Queen's Gambit.
Best show so far!
Toranaga is the ultimate villain after all.
Considering what historical figure his character was based on, I'm not really shocked
There's no heroes in war.
その後いくつかの戦争の後 彼は将軍になり 彼と彼の子孫たちは200年以上 戦争の無い時代「江戸時代」を作りました
depends on how you look at it, his ultimate goal was for Japan to become a peaceful and unified nation, without constant wars between the different feudal lords. But he was ruthless and cunning in the sense that he used the people around him as his pawns to achieve his goal, even though it was all for the greater good of Japan. In reality the real person that Torunaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu had the same goals, and he was able to unify Japan, and under his rule, Japan became a peaceful and unified nation with a strong and prosperous economy for over 200 years. I guess it really depends on how you define 'villain', I guess Torunaga was a "villain" in the sense that he was very ruthless and cunning, but he did ultimately do all these things for the greater good, to make Japan a better place, so in that sense it's not really "villainous". Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good.
The Taiko's old wife said in the first episode to Toranaga: "Now it is not the time for good men. Now it is the time for a shogun." It was out in the open from the beginning.
This will be one of my top sereies of all time. It will rank up there with my love of Band of Brothers and I'll be able to rewatch this one as well.
I LOVE that for all that outside Japan the world rises under Blackthorns religion but inside of Japan he is nothing more than a jester/ a useful tool. He had no great role he imagined himself.