"A Dream of A Dream" that was not a flashforward at the beginning, he threw away the cross necklace, and he stays in japan, his dream of being an old man back in England stop at the point where he tried to commit seppuku
Fits with Adams/Blackthorne not receiving permission to return to England for 15 years at which point he's much older and stays in Japan. He builds several western-style ships for Tokugawa and mounts several expeditions for trade and exploration. He also marries and has two children.
Agreed. Blackthorne has become the 8-fold fence Mariko spoke of in an earlier episode. I think he will always dream of returning to Europe again, but at the same time thrive in Japan which is also a dream, hence 'Dream Within A Dream.' Choices are made, but always the question, "but what if I did it differently?"
Lol, it simply implies Toranaga being overly ambitious. He manipulated them perfectly like a Chess Pieces and Him being a Chess Grandmaster. After settling or dealing with his current problem which is Ishido he will eventually aim to become a shogun on which he admitted indirectly to Yabushige before he beheaded him that is the reason why Yabushige smiles at ease knowing there is no great honor to be written in the History to be beheaded by the Future-Shogun Toranaga Himself. It also means Toranaga will eventually dispose of Taiko's (Toyotomi Hideyoshi) Heir in order to fulfill his dream. Hence, Dream within A Dreams.
@@lachtak42 yes, that look he made whiles his head turn to the right for a second, "Fck it, we live and we die" no more day dreaming, its time to be committed
When Toranaga says “why tell a dead man the future” it’s a callback to episode 1 when Yabushige said the same line to his nephew talking about Toranaga.
I think it was mean’t to imply that Yabushige was being used as a pawn in Toranga’s scheming while be allowed to think that he was doing the same to Toranaga. It was Toranaga’s way of sending him off with the truth he was asking for before his death.
@@hmp01 Yup omi is kinda toranagas spy for his uncle.. probably have a spy on his uncle then he gonna report to tora.. so yabushige telling him hes the son he never had stings to omi
“Let your hands be the last to hold him” from Mariko in episode 1 meant SO much to Fujisama that she used it to comfort Anjin months later in Mariko’s honor 😭
Amazing call back. That and the Toranaga call back of “why tell a dead man the future” which Yabushige told his nephew early in the season… just perfectly executed
Oh wow I missed that! Just like "why tell a dead man the future" callback from episode one. I love that was Torranaga's way of telling Yabushige that Omi was the real spy all along.
Toranaga's little smile was the admission he had wanted to be Shogun all along and had played everyone (including us the audience) that he wasnt interested in it, and the smile was to let Yabasuhge know as he died.
FUN FACT: It turns out that the ashes of James Clavel, the author of Shogun, were also spread in that very same lake where Blackthorne takes Fuji to spread her husband and child's ashes. And the producers of the show didn't even know! Clavel's daughters and grandaughters were invited to set when they shot that scene because it was close to where they lived, and they began getting incredibly emotional as they realized what scene was being shot.
Do you mean the actual bay in Canada or the theoretical bay in Japan? The series was filmed in British Columbia in & around Vancouver because of COVID restrictions at the time. If Canada, it's even more of a special coincidence considering that wasn't the original plan.
@@DinerLingo Canada indeed. That lake was very close to the family home evidently, one of the daughters even said she used to swim in that lake as a kid (short interview with her on the Shogun official podcast, last episode)
I love that Yabushige, sword in belly, still turned to look at Toranaga to say "c'mon tell me the truth before I go!" And Toranaga giving him a smirk, like "Yes, okay fine you were right." SLICE
I think Yabushige was just thrilled to finally know what death was like since he was obsessed with it. Toranaga's smile is harder to identify. Either it is as you say, confirmation, or it is simply a reactionary smile to seeing Yabushige take his death with a happy smile.
More than one, just in costume and lighting. Much less the acting. It is inconvenient that there is only one for "best supporting" actor and actress as this show was so stacked with talent.
William Adams, also known as Miura Anjin He was Japan's first Western samurai. Actually, in Japan, Anjin is written about in school textbooks. I learned about him at school. Tokugawa Ieyasu had Anjin as a friend and diplomatic advisor. After that, he became fluent in Japanese and spent his life building Western-style sailing ships. He and the villagers became very friendly with each other, and they would invite them to parties and treat them to beef, which the villagers rarely get to eat. He and his Japanese wife had two sons. Even today, there is a William Adams Memorial Park in Japan, where a society is held to honor his achievements. British Ambassador to Japan, Dutch, British, Mexican, and Japanese people who edge to Anjin participate. I enjoyed your reaction videos. Thank you so much.
@KC-2049 Thank you for your kind reply comment. If you ever come to Japan, you might enjoy visiting the grave of William Adams at Jodo-ji Temple in Yokosuka.
Honestly one of the most beautiful scenes I've ever seen. How can you describe the comfort of Fuji's presence and the grief over Mariko's absence after everythign the three of them have been through? I'm so glad they spent the last episode on the characters returning to Ajiro rather than some pointless battle.
This is pretty much the way the book ends. John, like the real William Adams, never returned to England. He died in 1620. But, he had won his war with the Portuguese. They fell out of favor before his passing, and were eventually expelled from Japan. William Adams married a Japanese woman and they had several children. He reportedly regularly sent funds to his English family until he died.
The image of old Blackthorn was a dream. It is Blackthorn envisioning himself as an old man with the spoils of his ambition. When he decides to sacrifice himself and commit seppuku in protest of the treatment of Ajiro he lets go of the dream. That's why his line "fuck it, we live and we die," is so resonant.
@@bluepearl_22 I think the focus on his bedridden state was also pointing to his dislussionement with the idea of growing endlessly old, waiting for death to arrive.
It's amazing that Toranaga-sama won the war even before it started. With everything set in stone, especially through Mariko-sama's ordeal, and Anjin-sama's proof of loyalty, the war didn't need to have so much bloodshed, a few, but not as many. This series continues to surprise me week after week. It didn't need to have a great epic battle to show off its story, but what mattered most was the characters and how they did the drama excellently.
True! But, would be interesting to have a rendition of the battle of Sekigahara. Nevertheless, it was an impressive conclusion to an outstanding series.
Lucky you. Would’ve done anything to have been an extra though I wouldn’t fit in as I’m not Japanese/East Asian. But slap on a helmet and who can tell 😅
@@chance757 I think so. Usually Toranaga likes to take baths in the river and Blackthorne also tought him how to dive. I would not be surprised it it was Mariko's cross as Toranaga knew the relationship between both of them. And in his room you could see Toranaga's helmet which he wore during the fast forward in his war against Ishido.
@@princen8213 the “flash forward” was a dream, not real; but in the zoom out, we could see mariko’s cross in toranaga’s hand. i see your point about that part.
@@princen8213Not a flash forward, a dream. William Adams (the real John Blackthorn) never left Japan. He oversaw construction of a fleet for Tokugawa (the real Toranaga) and continued advising him on foreign trade and the Spanish and Portuguese Christians, helped establish trade relationships with the Dutch, founded an ultimately unsuccessful English trading company, became a captain in Tokugawa's red seal trade ships, and settled down with the daughter of a minor official and had two children. During the sekiban, as a hatomoto, he was one of the few Westerners allowed to remain in Japan as a citizen. He died in his late 50s, and his son, Josef, inherited his fief, took a Japanese name, and his line faded into obscurity. Adams had some *very minor* influence on two events later in the shogunate: The first, about eight years after the battle of Sekigahara, occurred when a minor Japanese Catholic lord captaining one of Tokugawa's red seal ships was attacked by the Portuguese off the coast of Macao. Tokugawa permitted that lord to avenge his lost men by sinking the Portuguese ship responsible, but the lord wanted to parley that into expanding his fief, and conspired with other Catholic vassals and corrupt officials in a somewhat expansive but inept plot. After it came to light, and in part because of Adams' advice concerning the deceptions of the Catholics, Tokugawa forced all his vassals to renounce Christianity. Some 50 years later this leads to the Shimabara Rebellion, the banning of Christianity, and widespread persecution of Christians in Japan. The second, Adams helped negotiate the purchase of the cannons that Tokugawa would eventually use to siege Osaka, in order to kill the Taiko's heir and his mother, Lady Yodo (real Ochiba), when the boy comes of age.
This show is amazing. It is one of the shows that really depicts what is the essence of maybe everything or major aspects of life a human being could experience and live for.
When Toranaga wears Anjin out by having him dive many times before their swimming race it foreshadows how Toranaga becomes Shogun. The actual battle was already decided before the sides even took the field because like the Swim race, Toranaga took steps to make sure he would win.
I'm so happy to have traveled this far with you. Big thank you!😭 PS: Historically, Toranaga actually won the big Battle of Sekigahara and became the shogun later at that time and had maden peaceful country for 260years.
Yabushige unintentionally did everything he was supposed to. Every choice he made was one that toranaga fully expected. He's one of the falcons thats goes for the lure
@@GhostWatcher2024 I don't think he loved her in that way, she was his confidant and friend, one of the few people that were loyal to him, he didn't want her to leave and lose that.
@@jefftucker9225 I agree, but romantic love wasn't really a requirement for marriage back then. I think they would have been happy together regardless.
Toranaga wanted a peaceful world without war. Therefore, I think it is significant that this drama ended the series without any battle scenes. Toranaga tells everything about what will happen in the future in a conversation with Yabushige. I think it was a beautiful way for the story to end quietly and fleetingly, without having to go out of its way to depict a battle scene. Form Japan
@@Rabbithole8 I feel it'd also be pointless to depict the Battle of Sekigahara when we haven't been introduced to the vast majority of its big players like Yukimura Sanada.
@@PossessedbyPhoenix I feel like the obvious answer is a season 2 where they introduce said characters. There is so much more story to tell that I still feel like I haven't finished the show. (Yes, I know the book ends here but I don't care because the show was so good and there is so much more story to tell.)
I was also fascinated to realize, that when Anjin first arrived to the village that the people there treated him as a bad omen or tatarigami, but in this episode the Anjin spared the lives of the village people of Ajiro from Toranaga's ruse by offering his life to Toranaga. Now people may be having more respect for the Anjin, even Buntaro acknowledging it in the last few minutes of the episode. Also his dream of becoming an old man ended when he let go of Mariko's cross to the river, I think that the writing there was very well done ❤
Been a pleasure watching this masterpiece with you both - let's hope it receives the praise, appreciation and awards that it truly deserves! Thank you, both!
This show and a few of the actors and writers better win a bunch of emmy awards, it was one of the best shows I have seen in awhile that got me this emotionally invested. I wish there was more to come but I respect that it was telling just one important part of the bigger story.
What if there was a “new/different show” titled “Sekigahara”; would any of the existing Shogun fans be on board? Asking because the wind has ears and we are not sure who might or might not be listening… 🪶🪶🪶
@@khaii13 Sekigahara is done though? Toranaga has won and the fight is done. Maybe a show with Sanada Yukimura as the protagonist and Toranaga as a more villainous character would be fun. With the show ending with Yukimura’s charge and Toranaga’s victory
@@TheGhost-7002 I mean the battle itself, in the episode, Toranaga was just detailing the broad strokes of the scenario for the battle… I actually predicted that it would end in the stare-down with a narration… the show executed better than what I had in mind. But yeah, all the buildup is done… if they do that “separate show”; they have to pull a huge rabbit out of the hat to keep it compelling, and not just make it a historical reenactment… but I’m thinking about a theme of the actual founding of a peaceful/unified Japan. [Edit: ]there’s actually plenty of political maneuvering left to ensure that those who left Osaka would side with Tokugawa/Toranaga, the details of the plan and how it actually plays out is not yet shown in the episode. The victory was only implied in this episode [end of edit]
@@RandalReid There are more in the series, but bounce back and forth from Japan and China. The next book for Japan is set 100's of years latter, and deal with Toranaga's descendants. (if I recall correctly)
I’m a Fuji-sama simp myself but… Did anyone else notice how, when Ochiba said Mariko is to be honoured, she was looking directly at Ishido or at least in his direction? Throughout the show, she only glances at him but is otherwise always looking away/at the opposite side… If looks could kill.
Toranaga's greatest ruse wasn't him manipulating events to help him prevail over Ishido and the Council. It was him convincing *_us_* that he really was the good guy.
Good point. The real Toranaga (Tokugawa) was considered by most Japanese to be a more just ruler (and better politician) than most of the Daimyos of this period, including Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi (The Taiko). But he was often the bad guy and quite capable of being a tyrant when he felt it was necessary. There is a Japanese saying about these three great unifiers of the end of the Sengoku (Civil War) Period. There is a bird and all three are sitting there and want it to sing. Nobunaga (Lord Kurodo in this show, the one Mariko's father killed) says "If the bird doesn't sing, kill it." Hideyoshi (The Taiko) says "If the bird doesn't sing, make it sing." and Tokugawa (Toranaga) says "If the bird doesn't sing, wait for it to sing."
@@mwill8248 i am well read on oda nobunaga i know he never ran into a burning house lol to die!! he wanted retire in peace alone gave his man the power....
5:15 Look at Lady Ochiba's face of disdain when Lord Ishido spoke in defiance of the angry Earthquake god, despite their shameless act that took out her childhood friend. Ishido digging his own grave.
“flowers are only flowers because they fall… but thankfully, the wind.” PHEW! one of handful of times just this episode where i actually had to pause for a cry break; good to see from the thumbnail that i wasn’t alone in my tears haha. this show man. i’m so grateful for it. and thank you guys for these wonderful reactions, they were definitely my favorite.❤️
Also I'd like to add: One of the reasons cinepals is my favourite react channel is that you guys really consider the best moments to highlight, it seems like a no-brainer but aside from a small handful of others like The Reel-Rejects or Blind wave, most channels I've seen haven't even thought to include those small little profound moments in the show that, to me, really make it what it is. That simple camera pan across the woods when Blackthorne points out the absurd nature of all the religions. Including those scenes and even discussing them. Reading between the lines. That's what really separates a reaction channel worth watching from a redundant piece of content. You guys get the point haha, great job J&A!
In actual Japanese history, after this, Toranaga defeats Ishido, and 15 years later, causes Ochiba and her child to commit suicide. And Japan will be at peace for 260 years.
Ochiba and her child* Also that was technically their fault. They were openly gathering arms against Ieyasu to seize back control of the country. Then again, yes that is probably what Ieyasu wanted as if he could kill off Hideyoshi’s line, that would mean that no one else could oppose him. Therefore, securing peace in Japan and allowing his dynasty to rule for over 250 years. Edit: Additionally, another dark fact is that Hideyori had an infant son, he did not have the chance to take his son’s life himself, so the infant was killed by the Tokugawa Samurai and brought before Ieyasu. Also, it is said that there were so many heads collected, that they filled the road from Osaka to Kyoto.
@@TheGhost-7002 What's even darker was that Hideyori's infant son was Ieyasu's great-grandson by way of his granddaughter, who was married to Hideyori.
@@ignas49 No in actual history. Tokugawa Ieyasu (who Toranaga is based on) seized power at the Battle of Sekigahara and founded the Tokugawa Shogunate. This effectively ended the Toyotomi Government (The government made by the Taiko) and therefore the Heir, Toyotomi Hideyori, lost his power to become ruler of Japan. His mother Yodo Dono (who Ochiba is based on) obviously didn’t like the fact that her son had just been practically dethroned. So she poisoned her son against Ieyasu and he began to grow ambitious. However, this is exactly what Ieyasu wanted, as that would mean wiping out the Toyotomi line, leaving no opposition to his dynasty. In the end, he succeeded and Hideyoshi’s whole clan was annihilated.
Toranaga smiled at Yabushige before finishing him off...thus answering Yabushige's question about him being a Shogun...it was a 'Yes' from Toranaga...at least that's what I believe...
27:40 Tadaoki Hosokawa (Buntaro) was active in the Battle of Sekigahara. The daughter of Tadaoki Hosokawa (Buntaro) and Gracia Hosokawa (Mariko) is the ancestor of the Japanese Emperor.
The best compliment I can give for this show in a world of on demand, streaming and DVR, I still was counting down to when the show was going to be available. In the reality that this book was based on, Osaka did get attacked, some 16 years later. With use of Portuguese cannon and mostly home forged cannon, although the native cannon were not as good. Willaim Adams (blackthorn) never left Japan. He did send money back to care for his family. But did marry and have two children.
Last episode watching your reaction to Shogun, and I just wanted to drop a line to say thank you, and that I enjoyed watching your reaction and post-episode discussion to each episode of Shogun. Cheers!
When Torunaga let that bird go and said 'go bear many daughters' it was kinda like him saying goodbye to Mariko who was very useful to him but also symbolic cos she never 'hunted' before until Torunaga invited her to one and she marvelled at the 'steel bird' in a way its like he's releasing her from her duty and is mourning in his own way. I love the use of poems in this show to reveal a person's inner heart/secret heart. Mariko's words are always lauded as unbeatable and in her poem Ochiba asked her son how he would continue it. The Heir's words show his innocence - he sees the possibilities of fruits and flowers. But Ochiba ocntinues with the Wind. When Toranaga talks with Yabu about commandingthe wind you realise that she's speaking of him and that is when she reveals her secret alliance with him. I guess that the poem Mariko wrote and her continuation was what she wrote to Toranaga and is enough to state her intent of their alliance, given that he spoke the poem Mariko said to him and he wept in his own silent way. Yabu's poem was also simple, short and to the point. He wants to be useful even in death in so far as he can try to fight but if he loses (relevant to John's first words to Toranaga) then he is simply meat for hungry dogs. In John's seppuku he speaks the words Mariko said in her last breath, showing that he not only learns language fast but also that he has taken her lesson to heart - Life and Death are the same and both can be used as weapons and not useless at all. John can make Toranaga do what he wants but either way, he gets to die and join Mariko in death. He contemplated that future - dying old and alone clutching unto the memories but decided 'fuck it' In that whole scene, we know later that it was Toranaga who burnt his ship understanding that Mariko bargained for his life. And yet Toranga insisted on punishing the village to test John and his resolve. He claimed he had given up his war when the very reason he is alive is cos his witty response to Toranaga amused him so much he kept him around. And yet he is willing to give up his life for this small petty reason as the village same to how Toranaga found his depression around the gardeners death petty and small - John calls the whole religious war with the Portugeuse 'small' contrasting ep 2 where Toranaga's conflict with the regents seemed small in comparison to this new larger global threat John revealed to them about the Spanish-Portuguese treaty. In the scene where John and Fuji sat together, you can see the lessons that Kuki the courtesan taught in the WIllow World - the empty space beside John framing him and Fuji as they sit is highlighting that the empty space is an absence that can be seen and felt, t he absence of Mariko in their lives. I love the scene Omi takes his gun and sword - mirroring the conflict in early episode down to Fuji behind him but this time they're both so broken by their losses and trials there's no other for fighting anymore - which is a mirror to the entire conflict as a whole: to fight without fighting, to win before the war even starts. Toranaga won before they fought at Sekigahara. Also the poetry of just Yabu almost dying on a cliff to being executed on a cliff. Mariko's words that Fuji used to say 'let your hands be the last to hold her'
So based on the podcast of the show, apparently Anjin-sama (Blackthorne) ended up never leaving Japan. The flashforward of him being an old man is a "what if" scenario. He ended that "future" when he threw the cross on the boat with Fuji-sama. A process of letting go. What a show!
@@Rabbithole8 William Adams actually did have permission to go in 1613 when an English captain arrived for trade. He changed his mind at the last minute because he didn't like the captain XD
@@Rabbithole8 No, he got it from Ieyasu. And he died 7 years after, not soon after. I don't recall reading anything about a hunting accident unless you're just making a joke.
@@megamonster1234 Tokugawa Ieyasu handed power over Hidetada in 1605. Adams died in 1620 four years after Tokugawa Ieyasu. Tokugawa gave Adams conditional permission to leave, meaning he could only leave for short periods of time and not travel far. That is he did not give him permission to return to England or Holland. Hidetada gave him permission to leave Japan entirely. Adams' cause of death is unknown. All that is known is that on May 16, 1620 he fill quite ill and called his friends Richard Cocks and Willian Eaton to his bedside to record his last will and testament. They suspected he died from malaria that he caught in Cochinchina (Vietnam), or a fall from his horse while hunting which he never completely recovered from. Granted that is less likely, than the former. So, to be more accurate I should have stated that he died from an illness.
Actually, the old man scene, wasn't real. It was Blackthorne's dream. Like he was thinking if he leaves, he is afraid growing old at this home. In real life, he was buried in Japan.
i think when he hears “why tell a dead man the future” he kinda realized his nephew was relaying everything hes been upto to shogun from the very start since that what he told him in very 1st episode when he was having 2nd thoughts on his loyalty. he knew the betrays going on and still let him be around him to be part of overall plan of being ascended to shogun. and prolly very impressed with it. that was my take.
At first I was disappointed by the lack of action and a depiction of the Battle of Sekigahara, but then the show always advocated that war itself is ugly and shouldn't be looked forward to. Nagakado was a good example of overly eager young men looking for glory. No other show had me this invested into it's story and intrigue. I really do hope it wins many awards.
in 1981 ... toured Japan, because of the inspiration the book Shogun made. Visited the funerary monument of Toranaga (Tokugawa) at Nikko. Visited the original castle at Matsumoto.
I really enjoyed seeing this series from the eyes of you and Achara (and Syntell and Rekkai). I think you two are very sweet :) and I appreciate your open emotional intelligence. Thank you!
At the end, when the ship is pulled up, Anjin is in command, and you can feel the historical lord of the Miura Peninsula in the background. Oumi has a hunch that Toranaga may give him another land and move on. . . . Tadanobu Asano's performance as Yabushige in episode 10 was very good. Thank you for all the fun reactions each time. If you have a chance to travel to Japan, please be sure to check out the monument to Miura Anjin, which is located behind Anjin's house. The tomb of Ieyasu, the model for Toranaga, is Nikko Toshogu Shrine. It has become a wonderful tourist destination. A straight line from Ieyasu's grave leads to Edo Castle. It was built there by the second generation of the Tokugawa shogunate, with the meaning that Ieyasu would watch over the prosperity of Edo and Japan even after his death.
Supplement. I noticed this after it was pointed out on a reaction channel by another Western person, but Yabushige's final death haiku seems to have been translated quite differently. Either is fine as long as you can convey his feelings, but the English translation of Yabushige's death poem that OUMI actually read out in Japanese is completely different. By the way, the haiku that Oumi read out in Japanese is: "Don't burn the dead body, don't bury it, let it be exposed in the open, and feed the hungry dogs." In any case, this is also Yabushige's YAEGAKI.
Sure, I was a bit disappointed we didn't see the battle, but I've come to realize the real ending of the main story was in episode 9. Episode 10 is just the epilogue that wrapped up the loose ends with the surviving characters.
24:47 - that exposition dump was a good reworking from the book where this was an internal dialogue for Toranaga. But they left out one thing in the movie's script - the final reason Toranaga will not let Anjin go: "and I need a friend. I daren’t make friends among my own people, or among the Portuguese. Yes, I will whisper it down a well at noon but only when I’m certain I’m alone, that I need one friend!" Try not tearing up from that one 🤩 26:44 while not in the original book or manus, this line of Fujiko's really f'ed me up and got the tears flowing 🥹😭
Blackthorne's ship is named the "Erasmus", after the greatest European philosopher of the time. Erasmus once said, "To stop learning is to start to die." That fits Blackthorne.
This was art this was poetry this was beautifully done you don’t always need action and violence all the time because that’s what we always expect but bravo to shogun I really enjoyed this I watched the 80s version a hundred times 1 of my favorite shows ever and this version was well done also 👏🏼
He became Japanese in the end, he would not have killed himself in the beginning. This feels a lot more like Mariko's story than it did John's, it left me wanting more, and yet I got what I needed.
Thomas Blake Glover(Scottish arms dealer) has written down“Bribery didn't work for Tokugawa(Toranaga's)samurai“ As I Japanese “Seppuku“was sad and scared traditional but it wasn't nonsense.And I believe you guys know why …after this show😊
The fact that this series ended the way it did just proves that this show had every intention of being a masterclass from beginning to end, and exists as an absolute defiance of what is expected in storytelling in Hollywood. Brilliant!
The "hint" that Mariko was Crimson Sky, aside from that being the title of her last episode, was she was also wearing a crimson kimono when she went before Ishido at court to deliver her ultimatum.
As the only person in the story that would have spoken English as a main language was Blackthorne, and all the foreigners, apart from Blackthorne's crew, were Portugese, it's safe to say that virtually the whole show would have been in Japanese and Portugese, with subtitles, if they hadn't substituted English to replace Portugese.
I believe the episode title "A Dream Of A Dream" has the meaning of the ideal dream of Tokugawa Ieyasu unifying Japan with the minimal number of casualties and avoiding the Battle of Sekigahara (and its consequent horrific loss of Japanese lives) if he could have helped it. In this series, Toranaga succeeded in the same dream with the fewest deaths possible. There is no need to show any carnage of a showdown battle between the five armies because Toranaga has already won. Mariko has succeeded in moving Ochiba and any highborn samurai family to distance themselves from Ishido, let alone support him on the field of battle. And Toranaga did not reveal the true intentions of keeping Blackthorne to Yabushige either. Blackthorne is more than just a distraction. He is the best naval captain he knows, which he still needs to secure against the colonial dominion from distant empires. Blackthorne also (finally) understood Toranaga's leadership style but the real test is Blackthorne being willing to sacrifice himself for the villagers, making him an ideal candidate for a true vassal. After the sacrifices of so many vassals, Toranaga needs Blackthorne (and Omi) to fill his ranks again.
The way I understood "old Blackthorne" is that they were visions rather than a flashforward. It was a future that Blackthorne does not want for himself. In that vision, Mariko-sama's death continues to haunt him, hence why he has the rosary with him.
Guys, the old man sequence was the dream. When JB was unconscious from the blast, he dreamed “forward” to the life he thought he would have. Only that dream would never be realized. He had changed the course of his life by that point. I was confused for a bit too, but the cross in his hand as an old man gave it away when the later scene of him tossing it in the water took place. This was confirmed by the show runner in the official podcast.
John's face on the boat, after learning what Mariko did for him, is so damn heartbreaking. But it feels like he's trying to put on a brave face, like he doesn't want his sense of loss to show. Maybe he wants to respect the sacrifice she chose to make. That's...such a deep emotion to convey without words. Way to go, Cosmo Jarvis.
Trivia: the bay where they shot Ajiro is in British Columbia, Canada. That’s the area where James Clavell raised his family. Michaela Clavell remembers spending so much time in that bay. That’s the actual bay where they scattered the ashes of James Clavell. The production surprised Michaela Clavell by inviting her to the shooting of the last 2 episodes where’s they had Fuji scattering the ashes. Michaela, her sister and niece were all crying.
You guys should react to the 1980 mini series and compare/contrast. Keep the goodness that is Shogun going! I love how Anjin's fate was changed. In the flash forward he left Japan and returned "home". You see he is holding Mariko's cross. But when Anji took Fuji out to help her let go of her past, he dropped Mariko's cross... accepting his fate. Like Toranaga said.. he wasn't controlling the winds, he was reading them. Anjin, based on William Adams, stayed in Japan, had a family and owned land.
I agree completely. If not on the channel, then on their own. It's definitely worth watching the 1980 version and it is different enough that no one would feel they are just watching the same thing over again
Somebody really should do that. Another fine series that no reactors seem to be aware of is the 1990s Richard Sharpe stories set in the Napoleonic Wars and starring Sean Bean in his prime. Great show.
The moments where he's an old man in his bed is literally "A dream of a dream". He wants to be able to do die as an old man in England, but he's never able to leave Japan. Toranaga burned his ship and he'll do it again. Toranaga never let's him leave Japan. I do hope they continue with the next time period chronologically in the book series "Tai-Pan". It's set in 1841 Hong Kong.
it's good that the show forces modern viewers to see stories outside of the linear view, beyond the tropes. This is classic storytelling that books have had for centuries.
I think the Spy/covert Samurai was nearby, BUT even if he wasn't, it's clear from this episode that Toranaga got Omi to switch allegiances. So I can believe that Omi told Toranaga everything.
At the end of the book, there's a one-paragraph afterward that summarizes what happened when Toronaga went to war. Just to tie the story off. You should really read the book. But if you don't, Toronaga eventually used his cunning and the advantage provided by Mariko to defeat Ishido and his forces. He brought the captured Ishido back and buried him to his neck in a slum where passersby were invited to saw at his neck with a bamboo saw. He lasted 3 days.
34:29 Technically Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) didn't wanted to be Shogun, that's why after 3 years as a Shogun, he passed his Title to his son Tokugawa Hideata. Because what he wanted was unlimited power to shape and decide the faith of Japan, so that's why he kept all the political power being an Ogosho, and using his sun as his personal puppet. That way he made sure any attack to the family will be to his son and not to him. He was one of the gratest leaders of Japan and he was so great because he understood that you get power using power and smarts, and only you can decide what's better for the people, not a bunch of leaders, and delegates and by negotiating with people: You study the winds... and shape them at your will...
16:20 Blackthorn is a polyglot. He is an English man who serves on a Dutch ship and speaks fluent Portuguese. Speaks some Spanish as well(the curse words). This is not very well stated in the TV show, but is clearly stated in the book. He is quite intelligent as you would need to be in order to be a ship pilot in 1600 and travel through the Atlantica and the Pacific Oceans. He obviously learns foreign languages really well as he asks for words and tries to speak in Japanese from the beginning of the first episode.
"A Dream of A Dream" that was not a flashforward at the beginning, he threw away the cross necklace, and he stays in japan, his dream of being an old man back in England stop at the point where he tried to commit seppuku
Fits with Adams/Blackthorne not receiving permission to return to England for 15 years at which point he's much older and stays in Japan. He builds several western-style ships for Tokugawa and mounts several expeditions for trade and exploration. He also marries and has two children.
Agreed. Blackthorne has become the 8-fold fence Mariko spoke of in an earlier episode. I think he will always dream of returning to Europe again, but at the same time thrive in Japan which is also a dream, hence 'Dream Within A Dream.' Choices are made, but always the question, "but what if I did it differently?"
oh, now i get it. because i was like «how the hell he kept the cross later, but throw it away earlier?».
Lol, it simply implies Toranaga being overly ambitious. He manipulated them perfectly like a Chess Pieces and Him being a Chess Grandmaster.
After settling or dealing with his current problem which is Ishido he will eventually aim to become a shogun on which he admitted indirectly to Yabushige before he beheaded him that is the reason why Yabushige smiles at ease knowing there is no great honor to be written in the History to be beheaded by the Future-Shogun Toranaga Himself.
It also means Toranaga will eventually dispose of Taiko's (Toyotomi Hideyoshi) Heir in order to fulfill his dream.
Hence, Dream within A Dreams.
@@lachtak42 yes, that look he made whiles his head turn to the right for a second, "Fck it, we live and we die" no more day dreaming, its time to be committed
When Toranaga says “why tell a dead man the future” it’s a callback to episode 1 when Yabushige said the same line to his nephew talking about Toranaga.
I think it was mean’t to imply that Yabushige was being used as a pawn in Toranga’s scheming while be allowed to think that he was doing the same to Toranaga. It was Toranaga’s way of sending him off with the truth he was asking for before his death.
Is to let yabu know his being clapped from start to the end and that omi was all along working closely for Toranaga.
@@providencez9496 its why omi asked can loyalty be a betrayal
@@hmp01 Yup omi is kinda toranagas spy for his uncle.. probably have a spy on his uncle then he gonna report to tora.. so yabushige telling him hes the son he never had stings to omi
@@crispford never made that connection till I read yall comments. Makes complete sense
“Let your hands be the last to hold him” from Mariko in episode 1 meant SO much to Fujisama that she used it to comfort Anjin months later in Mariko’s honor 😭
Oh god, I missed that call back. Agh, my heart!
Amazing call back. That and the Toranaga call back of “why tell a dead man the future” which Yabushige told his nephew early in the season… just perfectly executed
Oh wow I missed that! Just like "why tell a dead man the future" callback from episode one. I love that was Torranaga's way of telling Yabushige that Omi was the real spy all along.
That got me. I went from weeping to bawling.
@@mackstacks8913 "perfectly executed"
I see what you did there
Toranaga's little smile was the admission he had wanted to be Shogun all along and had played everyone (including us the audience) that he wasnt interested in it, and the smile was to let Yabasuhge know as he died.
FUN FACT: It turns out that the ashes of James Clavel, the author of Shogun, were also spread in that very same lake where Blackthorne takes Fuji to spread her husband and child's ashes. And the producers of the show didn't even know! Clavel's daughters and grandaughters were invited to set when they shot that scene because it was close to where they lived, and they began getting incredibly emotional as they realized what scene was being shot.
That had to have been an emotional day for all present. I got emotional just reading your comment.
Do you mean the actual bay in Canada or the theoretical bay in Japan? The series was filmed in British Columbia in & around Vancouver because of COVID restrictions at the time. If Canada, it's even more of a special coincidence considering that wasn't the original plan.
@@DinerLingo Canada indeed. That lake was very close to the family home evidently, one of the daughters even said she used to swim in that lake as a kid (short interview with her on the Shogun official podcast, last episode)
I love that Yabushige, sword in belly, still turned to look at Toranaga to say "c'mon tell me the truth before I go!" And Toranaga giving him a smirk, like "Yes, okay fine you were right." SLICE
I think Yabushige was just thrilled to finally know what death was like since he was obsessed with it. Toranaga's smile is harder to identify. Either it is as you say, confirmation, or it is simply a reactionary smile to seeing Yabushige take his death with a happy smile.
if this is not getting an award...then those award shows failed...
As they always do.
When do they succeed?
More than one, just in costume and lighting. Much less the acting. It is inconvenient that there is only one for "best supporting" actor and actress as this show was so stacked with talent.
theyll get an award for the most heads rolling lmao this whole show is just a whole cock block nothing even happened
I would agree too, but remember that we have not yet seen its biggest rival of this year, house of the dragon
William Adams, also known as Miura Anjin
He was Japan's first Western samurai.
Actually, in Japan, Anjin is written about in school textbooks.
I learned about him at school.
Tokugawa Ieyasu had Anjin as a friend and diplomatic advisor.
After that, he became fluent in Japanese and spent his life building Western-style sailing ships. He and the villagers became very friendly with each other, and they would invite them to parties and treat them to beef, which the villagers rarely get to eat. He and his Japanese wife had two sons.
Even today, there is a William Adams Memorial Park in Japan, where a society is held to honor his achievements. British Ambassador to Japan, Dutch, British, Mexican, and Japanese people who edge to Anjin participate.
I enjoyed your reaction videos. Thank you so much.
@KC-2049
Thank you for your kind reply comment.
If you ever come to Japan, you might enjoy visiting the grave of William Adams at Jodo-ji Temple in Yokosuka.
The scene where Anjin and Fuji are seen sitting without Mariko. As Kiku put it , "Presence is felt most keenly in absence"
Honestly one of the most beautiful scenes I've ever seen. How can you describe the comfort of Fuji's presence and the grief over Mariko's absence after everythign the three of them have been through? I'm so glad they spent the last episode on the characters returning to Ajiro rather than some pointless battle.
This is pretty much the way the book ends. John, like the real William Adams, never returned to England. He died in 1620. But, he had won his war with the Portuguese. They fell out of favor before his passing, and were eventually expelled from Japan.
William Adams married a Japanese woman and they had several children. He reportedly regularly sent funds to his English family until he died.
Do you know if William Adams has any descendants that are currently living? Would be fascinating to see if that's the case.
Insane remittance money was thing back then. Especially for two nations as far apart as Japan and Britain
@@ogami7661Where did you read this?
The image of old Blackthorn was a dream. It is Blackthorn envisioning himself as an old man with the spoils of his ambition. When he decides to sacrifice himself and commit seppuku in protest of the treatment of Ajiro he lets go of the dream. That's why his line "fuck it, we live and we die," is so resonant.
Thats also why we only see those flash forward scenes up until that very moment.
@@bluepearl_22 I think the focus on his bedridden state was also pointing to his dislussionement with the idea of growing endlessly old, waiting for death to arrive.
So poetic.
weII now I undrstnd, because I was wondering how did he have the Mariko's cross if he let it go in the sea with Fuji.
@@BaschBarrage At the end, you can see that Toranaga was holding a cross. It could be Mariko’s cross that drifted to the shore.
After all, Anjin was trying to protect Mariko, but Mariko was protecting him. When Anjin found out, he shed tears, and I cried with him😭
Cosmo Jarvis is a great actor
@@teowiz4210 the whole cast is phenomenal!
@@ProgazQQ yes, indeed. and the Yabushige character was incredible.
It's amazing that Toranaga-sama won the war even before it started. With everything set in stone, especially through Mariko-sama's ordeal, and Anjin-sama's proof of loyalty, the war didn't need to have so much bloodshed, a few, but not as many. This series continues to surprise me week after week. It didn't need to have a great epic battle to show off its story, but what mattered most was the characters and how they did the drama excellently.
True! But, would be interesting to have a rendition of the battle of Sekigahara. Nevertheless, it was an impressive conclusion to an outstanding series.
I was in the episode as one of the Samurai Archers in Red escorting Blackthorne.
すごい!
Lucky you. Would’ve done anything to have been an extra though I wouldn’t fit in as I’m not Japanese/East Asian. But slap on a helmet and who can tell 😅
Where was it filmed, the location.
❤
which one?
It didn't spoil that he lived, he never left Japan, that was a dream, and that was Mariko's cross.
yea, alot of people dont seem not to get that it was a dream / metaphor of his western self dying and being reborn japanese.
did toranaga have it at the end?
@@chance757 I think so. Usually Toranaga likes to take baths in the river and Blackthorne also tought him how to dive. I would not be surprised it it was Mariko's cross as Toranaga knew the relationship between both of them. And in his room you could see Toranaga's helmet which he wore during the fast forward in his war against Ishido.
@@princen8213 the “flash forward” was a dream, not real; but in the zoom out, we could see mariko’s cross in toranaga’s hand. i see your point about that part.
@@princen8213Not a flash forward, a dream. William Adams (the real John Blackthorn) never left Japan. He oversaw construction of a fleet for Tokugawa (the real Toranaga) and continued advising him on foreign trade and the Spanish and Portuguese Christians, helped establish trade relationships with the Dutch, founded an ultimately unsuccessful English trading company, became a captain in Tokugawa's red seal trade ships, and settled down with the daughter of a minor official and had two children. During the sekiban, as a hatomoto, he was one of the few Westerners allowed to remain in Japan as a citizen. He died in his late 50s, and his son, Josef, inherited his fief, took a Japanese name, and his line faded into obscurity.
Adams had some *very minor* influence on two events later in the shogunate:
The first, about eight years after the battle of Sekigahara, occurred when a minor Japanese Catholic lord captaining one of Tokugawa's red seal ships was attacked by the Portuguese off the coast of Macao. Tokugawa permitted that lord to avenge his lost men by sinking the Portuguese ship responsible, but the lord wanted to parley that into expanding his fief, and conspired with other Catholic vassals and corrupt officials in a somewhat expansive but inept plot. After it came to light, and in part because of Adams' advice concerning the deceptions of the Catholics, Tokugawa forced all his vassals to renounce Christianity. Some 50 years later this leads to the Shimabara Rebellion, the banning of Christianity, and widespread persecution of Christians in Japan.
The second, Adams helped negotiate the purchase of the cannons that Tokugawa would eventually use to siege Osaka, in order to kill the Taiko's heir and his mother, Lady Yodo (real Ochiba), when the boy comes of age.
A wonderful finale to an incredible season. Shōgun is the best TV I've seen for a very long time.
This show is amazing. It is one of the shows that really depicts what is the essence of maybe everything or major aspects of life a human being could experience and live for.
This show was so good for sure deserves awards.loved the reaction you guys did to it also thank you for the content
When Toranaga wears Anjin out by having him dive many times before their swimming race it foreshadows how Toranaga becomes Shogun. The actual battle was already decided before the sides even took the field because like the Swim race, Toranaga took steps to make sure he would win.
あなたも駒を動かし将軍になれる素質がありそうです😊
Toranaga knows how to cheat…with a style
Also the shogun armour he had crafted after a dream. It was always his dream to become shogun.
I'm so happy to have traveled this far with you. Big thank you!😭
PS: Historically, Toranaga actually won the big Battle of Sekigahara and became the shogun later at that time and had maden peaceful country for 260years.
あなたの考えは素晴らしい。
それが今の日本と東京を作りました。
The finale of the series is like a haiku in a sense. Short, beautiful, with lots of room for interpretation and filling in the gaps. So well done!
Yabushige unintentionally did everything he was supposed to. Every choice he made was one that toranaga fully expected. He's one of the falcons thats goes for the lure
Without a doubt, Fuji-san is my favourite character.
Agreed. And I'm glad this show didn't Hollywood it up and have her marry Blackthorne.
@@GhostWatcher2024 I don't think he loved her in that way, she was his confidant and friend, one of the few people that were loyal to him, he didn't want her to leave and lose that.
@@jefftucker9225 I agree, but romantic love wasn't really a requirement for marriage back then. I think they would have been happy together regardless.
Toranaga wanted a peaceful world without war. Therefore, I think it is significant that this drama ended the series without any battle scenes.
Toranaga tells everything about what will happen in the future in a conversation with Yabushige.
I think it was a beautiful way for the story to end quietly and fleetingly, without having to go out of its way to depict a battle scene.
Form Japan
That's a good insight. Although, I would have loved to see the Battle of Sekigahara depicted, I agree with your take.
Well said, and it also shown how great he is as a tactician. Hes truly playing 4D chess ahead everyone in that era.
もしかしてFROM JAPANですか？
翻訳だと日本を形成するってなってますよ
@@Rabbithole8 I feel it'd also be pointless to depict the Battle of Sekigahara when we haven't been introduced to the vast majority of its big players like Yukimura Sanada.
@@PossessedbyPhoenix I feel like the obvious answer is a season 2 where they introduce said characters. There is so much more story to tell that I still feel like I haven't finished the show. (Yes, I know the book ends here but I don't care because the show was so good and there is so much more story to tell.)
I was also fascinated to realize, that when Anjin first arrived to the village that the people there treated him as a bad omen or tatarigami, but in this episode the Anjin spared the lives of the village people of Ajiro from Toranaga's ruse by offering his life to Toranaga. Now people may be having more respect for the Anjin, even Buntaro acknowledging it in the last few minutes of the episode. Also his dream of becoming an old man ended when he let go of Mariko's cross to the river, I think that the writing there was very well done ❤
Been a pleasure watching this masterpiece with you both - let's hope it receives the praise, appreciation and awards that it truly deserves! Thank you, both!
This show and a few of the actors and writers better win a bunch of emmy awards, it was one of the best shows I have seen in awhile that got me this emotionally invested. I wish there was more to come but I respect that it was telling just one important part of the bigger story.
it was solid but lets not kidd , there re better ones
I'm gonna miss Shogun-Tuesdays!
I really wish we get second season 😭
The book is done though. If there would be a second season, either they use another of Clavell's books or create an entirely new story.
What if there was a “new/different show” titled “Sekigahara”; would any of the existing Shogun fans be on board?
Asking because the wind has ears and we are not sure who might or might not be listening… 🪶🪶🪶
@@khaii13 Sekigahara is done though? Toranaga has won and the fight is done. Maybe a show with Sanada Yukimura as the protagonist and Toranaga as a more villainous character would be fun. With the show ending with Yukimura’s charge and Toranaga’s victory
@@TheGhost-7002 I mean the battle itself, in the episode, Toranaga was just detailing the broad strokes of the scenario for the battle… I actually predicted that it would end in the stare-down with a narration… the show executed better than what I had in mind.
But yeah, all the buildup is done… if they do that “separate show”; they have to pull a huge rabbit out of the hat to keep it compelling, and not just make it a historical reenactment… but I’m thinking about a theme of the actual founding of a peaceful/unified Japan.
[Edit: ]there’s actually plenty of political maneuvering left to ensure that those who left Osaka would side with Tokugawa/Toranaga, the details of the plan and how it actually plays out is not yet shown in the episode. The victory was only implied in this episode [end of edit]
@@RandalReid There are more in the series, but bounce back and forth from Japan and China. The next book for Japan is set 100's of years latter, and deal with Toranaga's descendants. (if I recall correctly)
Definitely one of the best television shows I've seen in a very long time. Loved every moment of it.
I’m a Fuji-sama simp myself but…
Did anyone else notice how, when Ochiba said Mariko is to be honoured, she was looking directly at Ishido or at least in his direction? Throughout the show, she only glances at him but is otherwise always looking away/at the opposite side… If looks could kill.
“Let yours be the last hands that hold her” utterly broke me
These were the same words Mariko spoke to the guards who had to kill Fujis baby in episode one.
Same. Such a beautiful way to illustrate how much Mariko meant to the both of them.
Toranaga's greatest ruse wasn't him manipulating events to help him prevail over Ishido and the Council.
It was him convincing *_us_* that he really was the good guy.
Considering what historical figure his character was based on, it was pretty obvious that he wouldn't be "the good guy"
Good men don't last long in that political climate
The scene where Yabushige said that his secret heart is just as dark as everyone said enough.
Good point. The real Toranaga (Tokugawa) was considered by most Japanese to be a more just ruler (and better politician) than most of the Daimyos of this period, including Oda Nobunaga and Toyotomi Hideyoshi (The Taiko). But he was often the bad guy and quite capable of being a tyrant when he felt it was necessary. There is a Japanese saying about these three great unifiers of the end of the Sengoku (Civil War) Period. There is a bird and all three are sitting there and want it to sing. Nobunaga (Lord Kurodo in this show, the one Mariko's father killed) says "If the bird doesn't sing, kill it." Hideyoshi (The Taiko) says "If the bird doesn't sing, make it sing." and Tokugawa (Toranaga) says "If the bird doesn't sing, wait for it to sing."
@@mwill8248 i am well read on oda nobunaga i know he never ran into a burning house lol to die!! he wanted retire in peace alone gave his man the power....
5:15 Look at Lady Ochiba's face of disdain when Lord Ishido spoke in defiance of the angry Earthquake god, despite their shameless act that took out her childhood friend. Ishido digging his own grave.
At the end of the day, Ishido is still a peasant in everyone's eyes.
@Javelineer and he showed over and over he didn't understand Toranaga, and couldn't compete with his intellect. She realized he could never win.
A dream of a dream is one of the words previous Taiko told to the heir before he died.
太閤、豊臣秀吉の辞世の句ですね。
“flowers are only flowers because they fall… but thankfully, the wind.”
PHEW! one of handful of times just this episode where i actually had to pause for a cry break; good to see from the thumbnail that i wasn’t alone in my tears haha. this show man. i’m so grateful for it. and thank you guys for these wonderful reactions, they were definitely my favorite.❤️
What does wind mean in this poem?
@@CD-hq9hd the wind carries dead flowers and their seeds and pollen; so even though they’ve fallen, they still live on in some capacity.
"Why tell a dead man the future?" Toranaga did reveal his secret heart.
that was yabushiges line to omi back in the pilot episode..
It was a great journey experiencing this show with you guys, thanks! :)
Also I'd like to add: One of the reasons cinepals is my favourite react channel is that you guys really consider the best moments to highlight, it seems like a no-brainer but aside from a small handful of others like The Reel-Rejects or Blind wave, most channels I've seen haven't even thought to include those small little profound moments in the show that, to me, really make it what it is. That simple camera pan across the woods when Blackthorne points out the absurd nature of all the religions. Including those scenes and even discussing them. Reading between the lines. That's what really separates a reaction channel worth watching from a redundant piece of content. You guys get the point haha, great job J&A!
In actual Japanese history, after this, Toranaga defeats Ishido, and 15 years later, causes Ochiba and her child to commit suicide. And Japan will be at peace for 260 years.
Sasuke ?
Ochiba and her child*
Also that was technically their fault. They were openly gathering arms against Ieyasu to seize back control of the country. Then again, yes that is probably what Ieyasu wanted as if he could kill off Hideyoshi’s line, that would mean that no one else could oppose him. Therefore, securing peace in Japan and allowing his dynasty to rule for over 250 years.
Edit: Additionally, another dark fact is that Hideyori had an infant son, he did not have the chance to take his son’s life himself, so the infant was killed by the Tokugawa Samurai and brought before Ieyasu. Also, it is said that there were so many heads collected, that they filled the road from Osaka to Kyoto.
@@TheGhost-7002 What's even darker was that Hideyori's infant son was Ieyasu's great-grandson by way of his granddaughter, who was married to Hideyori.
Was it because she was playing both sides like Yabushige or was it a different reason? Cause fifteen years later is a pretty long time
@@ignas49 No in actual history. Tokugawa Ieyasu (who Toranaga is based on) seized power at the Battle of Sekigahara and founded the Tokugawa Shogunate. This effectively ended the Toyotomi Government (The government made by the Taiko) and therefore the Heir, Toyotomi Hideyori, lost his power to become ruler of Japan. His mother Yodo Dono (who Ochiba is based on) obviously didn’t like the fact that her son had just been practically dethroned. So she poisoned her son against Ieyasu and he began to grow ambitious. However, this is exactly what Ieyasu wanted, as that would mean wiping out the Toyotomi line, leaving no opposition to his dynasty. In the end, he succeeded and Hideyoshi’s whole clan was annihilated.
Wow man what an ending. It was great experiencing these 10 episodes with you 2.
神奈川県の三浦に按針の石像がありますが、栃木県の日光の家康の墓の近くに
明智平という名の地名の場所があります。
鞠子(細川ガラシャ)の父は生き延びて僧侶になったという伝説もあります。
日本人でさえ、その伝説に心躍ります😊
I've watched a lot of Shogun reactors and you two are the best! You are really in touch with the deep emotional beats of the story. 😢❤
Wow, this was so sad yet so brilliant....on multiple levels.
Toranaga smiled at Yabushige before finishing him off...thus answering Yabushige's question about him being a Shogun...it was a 'Yes' from Toranaga...at least that's what I believe...
27:40 Tadaoki Hosokawa (Buntaro) was active in the Battle of Sekigahara.
The daughter of Tadaoki Hosokawa (Buntaro) and Gracia Hosokawa (Mariko) is the ancestor of the Japanese Emperor.
The best compliment I can give for this show in a world of on demand, streaming and DVR, I still was counting down to when the show was going to be available.
In the reality that this book was based on, Osaka did get attacked, some 16 years later. With use of Portuguese cannon and mostly home forged cannon, although the native cannon were not as good. Willaim Adams (blackthorn) never left Japan. He did send money back to care for his family. But did marry and have two children.
Last episode watching your reaction to Shogun, and I just wanted to drop a line to say thank you, and that I enjoyed watching your reaction and post-episode discussion to each episode of Shogun. Cheers!
This show was a blast to experience and cover. Well done yall!👏👏👏
When Torunaga let that bird go and said 'go bear many daughters' it was kinda like him saying goodbye to Mariko who was very useful to him but also symbolic cos she never 'hunted' before until Torunaga invited her to one and she marvelled at the 'steel bird' in a way its like he's releasing her from her duty and is mourning in his own way.
I love the use of poems in this show to reveal a person's inner heart/secret heart. Mariko's words are always lauded as unbeatable and in her poem Ochiba asked her son how he would continue it. The Heir's words show his innocence - he sees the possibilities of fruits and flowers. But Ochiba ocntinues with the Wind. When Toranaga talks with Yabu about commandingthe wind you realise that she's speaking of him and that is when she reveals her secret alliance with him. I guess that the poem Mariko wrote and her continuation was what she wrote to Toranaga and is enough to state her intent of their alliance, given that he spoke the poem Mariko said to him and he wept in his own silent way. Yabu's poem was also simple, short and to the point. He wants to be useful even in death in so far as he can try to fight but if he loses (relevant to John's first words to Toranaga) then he is simply meat for hungry dogs.
In John's seppuku he speaks the words Mariko said in her last breath, showing that he not only learns language fast but also that he has taken her lesson to heart - Life and Death are the same and both can be used as weapons and not useless at all. John can make Toranaga do what he wants but either way, he gets to die and join Mariko in death. He contemplated that future - dying old and alone clutching unto the memories but decided 'fuck it'
In that whole scene, we know later that it was Toranaga who burnt his ship understanding that Mariko bargained for his life. And yet Toranga insisted on punishing the village to test John and his resolve. He claimed he had given up his war when the very reason he is alive is cos his witty response to Toranaga amused him so much he kept him around. And yet he is willing to give up his life for this small petty reason as the village same to how Toranaga found his depression around the gardeners death petty and small - John calls the whole religious war with the Portugeuse 'small' contrasting ep 2 where Toranaga's conflict with the regents seemed small in comparison to this new larger global threat John revealed to them about the Spanish-Portuguese treaty.
In the scene where John and Fuji sat together, you can see the lessons that Kuki the courtesan taught in the WIllow World - the empty space beside John framing him and Fuji as they sit is highlighting that the empty space is an absence that can be seen and felt, t he absence of Mariko in their lives.
I love the scene Omi takes his gun and sword - mirroring the conflict in early episode down to Fuji behind him but this time they're both so broken by their losses and trials there's no other for fighting anymore - which is a mirror to the entire conflict as a whole: to fight without fighting, to win before the war even starts. Toranaga won before they fought at Sekigahara.
Also the poetry of just Yabu almost dying on a cliff to being executed on a cliff. Mariko's words that Fuji used to say 'let your hands be the last to hold her'
So based on the podcast of the show, apparently Anjin-sama (Blackthorne) ended up never leaving Japan. The flashforward of him being an old man is a "what if" scenario. He ended that "future" when he threw the cross on the boat with Fuji-sama. A process of letting go. What a show!
That's what happens in the book as well. William Adams also died in Japan.
@@Rabbithole8 William Adams actually did have permission to go in 1613 when an English captain arrived for trade. He changed his mind at the last minute because he didn't like the captain XD
@@megamonster1234 He got permission to leave from Tokugawa Hidetada and soon after he died in a hunting accident.
@@Rabbithole8 No, he got it from Ieyasu. And he died 7 years after, not soon after. I don't recall reading anything about a hunting accident unless you're just making a joke.
@@megamonster1234 Tokugawa Ieyasu handed power over Hidetada in 1605. Adams died in 1620 four years after Tokugawa Ieyasu. Tokugawa gave Adams conditional permission to leave, meaning he could only leave for short periods of time and not travel far. That is he did not give him permission to return to England or Holland. Hidetada gave him permission to leave Japan entirely. Adams' cause of death is unknown. All that is known is that on May 16, 1620 he fill quite ill and called his friends Richard Cocks and Willian Eaton to his bedside to record his last will and testament. They suspected he died from malaria that he caught in Cochinchina (Vietnam), or a fall from his horse while hunting which he never completely recovered from. Granted that is less likely, than the former. So, to be more accurate I should have stated that he died from an illness.
Actually, the old man scene, wasn't real. It was Blackthorne's dream. Like he was thinking if he leaves, he is afraid growing old at this home. In real life, he was buried in Japan.
Wow great insight
So this is a true story?
Nah but there was a black samurai who lived in Japan his name was yasuke@@LouSassol69er
He was a samurai as well
@@LouSassol69er It was modeled after a true story, yes.
What a finale. I wish they would make more of these. We need to see more of these kinds of shows, and more of Anna Sawai, A++ actor.
i think when he hears “why tell a dead man the future” he kinda realized his nephew was relaying everything hes been upto to shogun from the very start since that what he told him in very 1st episode when he was having 2nd thoughts on his loyalty. he knew the betrays going on and still let him be around him to be part of overall plan of being ascended to shogun. and prolly very impressed with it. that was my take.
At first I was disappointed by the lack of action and a depiction of the Battle of Sekigahara, but then the show always advocated that war itself is ugly and shouldn't be looked forward to. Nagakado was a good example of overly eager young men looking for glory.
No other show had me this invested into it's story and intrigue. I really do hope it wins many awards.
in 1981 ... toured Japan, because of the inspiration the book Shogun made. Visited the funerary monument of Toranaga (Tokugawa) at Nikko. Visited the original castle at Matsumoto.
good job‼
素晴らしい考察ありがとうございます👍
Wonderful show. Wonderful reaction. Thank you both.
I really enjoyed seeing this series from the eyes of you and Achara (and Syntell and Rekkai). I think you two are very sweet :) and I appreciate your open emotional intelligence. Thank you!
At the end, when the ship is pulled up, Anjin is in command, and you can feel the historical lord of the Miura Peninsula in the background. Oumi has a hunch that Toranaga may give him another land and move on. . . .
Tadanobu Asano's performance as Yabushige in episode 10 was very good.
Thank you for all the fun reactions each time. If you have a chance to travel to Japan, please be sure to check out the monument to Miura Anjin, which is located behind Anjin's house. The tomb of Ieyasu, the model for Toranaga, is Nikko Toshogu Shrine. It has become a wonderful tourist destination. A straight line from Ieyasu's grave leads to Edo Castle. It was built there by the second generation of the Tokugawa shogunate, with the meaning that Ieyasu would watch over the prosperity of Edo and Japan even after his death.
日光東照宮の他にもう一つ、久能山東照宮も家康の墓です。これは江戸を守るために、日光(栃木県)と久能山(静岡県)に分骨されています。
Ajiro is a well known place on the Izu Peninsula, not on the Miura Peninsula. I was born, raised and live in the Miura Peninsula.
Ajiro is located on Izu Peninsula. Not on Miura Peninsula.
Supplement.
I noticed this after it was pointed out on a reaction channel by another Western person, but Yabushige's final death haiku seems to have been translated quite differently. Either is fine as long as you can convey his feelings, but the English translation of Yabushige's death poem that OUMI actually read out in Japanese is completely different.
By the way, the haiku that Oumi read out in Japanese is:
"Don't burn the dead body, don't bury it, let it be exposed in the open, and feed the hungry dogs."
In any case, this is also Yabushige's YAEGAKI.
@@spacecirus9496 そうでした。訂正しますね。
Sure, I was a bit disappointed we didn't see the battle, but I've come to realize the real ending of the main story was in episode 9. Episode 10 is just the epilogue that wrapped up the loose ends with the surviving characters.
Damn this is my 3rd time crying lol, first time watching, watching reel rejects and then you guys lol. Just doesn't get easy.
Isn’t the point of Toranaga’s plan to avoid a war? Without the Heir’s army, Ishido is helpless and must surrender.
In the book he was buried up to his neck, he died three days later a very old man.
しかし この後 15万人が参加した戦争になりました。わずか6時間で虎長（家康）が勝利し、文太郎（細川）は136の敵の首を取りました。
Go to war short term to eliminate war long term
24:47 - that exposition dump was a good reworking from the book where this was an internal dialogue for Toranaga. But they left out one thing in the movie's script - the final reason Toranaga will not let Anjin go: "and I need a friend. I daren’t make friends among my own people, or among the Portuguese. Yes, I will whisper it down a well at noon but only when I’m certain I’m alone, that I need one friend!"
Try not tearing up from that one 🤩
26:44 while not in the original book or manus, this line of Fujiko's really f'ed me up and got the tears flowing 🥹😭
Shogun starts with pilot and it ends with a person who studies 'wind' and adjusts to it.
お二人がこの時代の人々に扮したらとっても似合いそうです。
この番組が終わってしまうのは悲しい。あと10シーズンは見れたのに。
Blackthorne's ship is named the "Erasmus", after the greatest European philosopher of the time. Erasmus once said, "To stop learning is to start to die."
That fits Blackthorne.
This was art this was poetry this was beautifully done you don’t always need action and violence all the time because that’s what we always expect but bravo to shogun I really enjoyed this I watched the 80s version a hundred times 1 of my favorite shows ever and this version was well done also 👏🏼
He became Japanese in the end, he would not have killed himself in the beginning. This feels a lot more like Mariko's story than it did John's, it left me wanting more, and yet I got what I needed.
見事な大団円。season２は不要。合戦を期待した向きは不満かもしれないが、これがBEST。
That scene between Blackthorne and Fuji-sama was just perfect…😭
Thomas Blake Glover(Scottish arms dealer) has written down“Bribery didn't work for Tokugawa(Toranaga's)samurai“ As I Japanese “Seppuku“was sad and scared traditional but it wasn't nonsense.And I believe you guys know why …after this show😊
The fact that this series ended the way it did just proves that this show had every intention of being a masterclass from beginning to end, and exists as an absolute defiance of what is expected in storytelling in Hollywood. Brilliant!
The "hint" that Mariko was Crimson Sky, aside from that being the title of her last episode, was she was also wearing a crimson kimono when she went before Ishido at court to deliver her ultimatum.
I've never heard of Cosmo Jarvis before this show but damn, he's good.
"let yours be the last hands to hold her" just as Mariko said in episode 1 before her child was put to death.
As the only person in the story that would have spoken English as a main language was Blackthorne, and all the foreigners, apart from Blackthorne's crew, were Portugese, it's safe to say that virtually the whole show would have been in Japanese and Portugese, with subtitles, if they hadn't substituted English to replace Portugese.
Toranaga just really wanted to be Shōgun but had to be with a good guy image...he played us, We all got played!😂😂😂
Yah amazing thing is you can totally see ochibas pov by the end of it.
The reveal in the book was awesome too...hey wait..he had been planning this for years and years. It was masterful
I believe the episode title "A Dream Of A Dream" has the meaning of the ideal dream of Tokugawa Ieyasu unifying Japan with the minimal number of casualties and avoiding the Battle of Sekigahara (and its consequent horrific loss of Japanese lives) if he could have helped it.
In this series, Toranaga succeeded in the same dream with the fewest deaths possible. There is no need to show any carnage of a showdown battle between the five armies because Toranaga has already won. Mariko has succeeded in moving Ochiba and any highborn samurai family to distance themselves from Ishido, let alone support him on the field of battle.
And Toranaga did not reveal the true intentions of keeping Blackthorne to Yabushige either. Blackthorne is more than just a distraction. He is the best naval captain he knows, which he still needs to secure against the colonial dominion from distant empires. Blackthorne also (finally) understood Toranaga's leadership style but the real test is Blackthorne being willing to sacrifice himself for the villagers, making him an ideal candidate for a true vassal. After the sacrifices of so many vassals, Toranaga needs Blackthorne (and Omi) to fill his ranks again.
Damn man, Toranaga is literally playing 4D chess. What a cunning strategist!
The way I understood "old Blackthorne" is that they were visions rather than a flashforward. It was a future that Blackthorne does not want for himself. In that vision, Mariko-sama's death continues to haunt him, hence why he has the rosary with him.
Guys, the old man sequence was the dream. When JB was unconscious from the blast, he dreamed “forward” to the life he thought he would have. Only that dream would never be realized. He had changed the course of his life by that point. I was confused for a bit too, but the cross in his hand as an old man gave it away when the later scene of him tossing it in the water took place. This was confirmed by the show runner in the official podcast.
"Flowers are only flowers because they fall." Mariko Sama
Well one thing is for sure, Blackthorne got played like a fiddle. Toranaga is never letting him leave, he is like a court jester to Toranaga.
nah he is respected more than yaske
John's face on the boat, after learning what Mariko did for him, is so damn heartbreaking. But it feels like he's trying to put on a brave face, like he doesn't want his sense of loss to show. Maybe he wants to respect the sacrifice she chose to make. That's...such a deep emotion to convey without words. Way to go, Cosmo Jarvis.
Some of the best shows I have watched in the last years.. Japan and South Korea are killing it on Netflix..
韓国ではshogunは放送されていないようです。
@@ああ-p1l6t Korea has it's own good shows, like Squid Game, All of Us are Dead, Kingdom, Black Knight, The Silent Sea (to name a few)..
26:42 "Let her hands be the last to hold him" was what Mariko said when they had to kill Fuji's son, remember?
Not the final I was expecting to be honest but I loved it.
That he has the cross in the forward flash, makes it a flash and not the future, the real William Adams never left Japan
Trivia: the bay where they shot Ajiro is in British Columbia, Canada.
That’s the area where James Clavell raised his family.
Michaela Clavell remembers spending so much time in that bay.
That’s the actual bay where they scattered the ashes of James Clavell. The production surprised Michaela Clavell by inviting her to the shooting of the last 2 episodes where’s they had Fuji scattering the ashes.
Michaela, her sister and niece were all crying.
You guys should react to the 1980 mini series and compare/contrast. Keep the goodness that is Shogun going!
I love how Anjin's fate was changed. In the flash forward he left Japan and returned "home". You see he is holding Mariko's cross. But when Anji took Fuji out to help her let go of her past, he dropped Mariko's cross... accepting his fate. Like Toranaga said.. he wasn't controlling the winds, he was reading them.
Anjin, based on William Adams, stayed in Japan, had a family and owned land.
I agree completely. If not on the channel, then on their own. It's definitely worth watching the 1980 version and it is different enough that no one would feel they are just watching the same thing over again
Somebody really should do that. Another fine series that no reactors seem to be aware of is the 1990s Richard Sharpe stories set in the Napoleonic Wars and starring Sean Bean in his prime. Great show.
What a fantastic finale. Perfection through and through.
All the actors in this miniseries are excellent.
Toranaga is great chess player. He sacrificed his queen (mariko) for a checkmate
The moments where he's an old man in his bed is literally "A dream of a dream". He wants to be able to do die as an old man in England, but he's never able to leave Japan. Toranaga burned his ship and he'll do it again. Toranaga never let's him leave Japan. I do hope they continue with the next time period chronologically in the book series "Tai-Pan". It's set in 1841 Hong Kong.
it's good that the show forces modern viewers to see stories outside of the linear view, beyond the tropes. This is classic storytelling that books have had for centuries.
ここでは虎永がチェスマスターだと比喩されるのをよく見かける
日本人の私から見れば将棋の名人に見えます
面白い事にインドのチャトランガを起源に
西洋に渡ってチェス
東洋の果てに渡って将棋になり
それぞれ文化的にゲームの構造が大きく違うのです
チェスは敵味方の駒が白と黒に分かれて
取ったり取られた駒は使えません
これに対し日本の将棋は敵味方同じ駒を使用
取ったり取られた駒は再使用が出来ます
これにより非常に複雑な戦術と3D的な大局観が必要不可欠で
キングの腹心に当たる駒が金将になるんですが
その金将という駒は取ったり取られたりする機会が比較的多く
その動きはまるで二重スパイ
ちょうどヤブシゲに相当してると感じていました
そして重要な大駒に飛車と角がありますが
十字に大きく動ける攻撃力に長けた飛車が鞠子様
X字のように斜行で大きく動ける角は守備力に長けた駒で
これは按針さんって感じに見えました
ちなみに将棋は太閤秀吉に特に愛されて
江戸時代にも引き続き武士の間にもシュミレーションゲームとして嗜まれていました
I played shogi in Yakuza games, love Japan. From sweden 😊
Toranaga said why tell a dead man the future, the same thing Yabushige said to Omi.
So was Omi a spy for Toranaga?
I think his hidden samurai was nearby when it was said but I’d have to watch the episode again to be sure. Either way, I caught that too.
I think the Spy/covert Samurai was nearby, BUT even if he wasn't, it's clear from this episode that Toranaga got Omi to switch allegiances. So I can believe that Omi told Toranaga everything.
At the end of the book, there's a one-paragraph afterward that summarizes what happened when Toronaga went to war. Just to tie the story off. You should really read the book. But if you don't, Toronaga eventually used his cunning and the advantage provided by Mariko to defeat Ishido and his forces. He brought the captured Ishido back and buried him to his neck in a slum where passersby were invited to saw at his neck with a bamboo saw. He lasted 3 days.
34:29 Technically Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) didn't wanted to be Shogun, that's why after 3 years as a Shogun, he passed his Title to his son Tokugawa Hideata. Because what he wanted was unlimited power to shape and decide the faith of Japan, so that's why he kept all the political power being an Ogosho, and using his sun as his personal puppet. That way he made sure any attack to the family will be to his son and not to him. He was one of the gratest leaders of Japan and he was so great because he understood that you get power using power and smarts, and only you can decide what's better for the people, not a bunch of leaders, and delegates and by negotiating with people: You study the winds... and shape them at your will...
"Why tell a dead man the future?" is exactly what Yabushige said about Toranaga in the first episode regarding the anjin.
16:20 Blackthorn is a polyglot. He is an English man who serves on a Dutch ship and speaks fluent Portuguese. Speaks some Spanish as well(the curse words). This is not very well stated in the TV show, but is clearly stated in the book. He is quite intelligent as you would need to be in order to be a ship pilot in 1600 and travel through the Atlantica and the Pacific Oceans. He obviously learns foreign languages really well as he asks for words and tries to speak in Japanese from the beginning of the first episode.