History of WWI Primer 082: The Kropatschek Pt.1 Documentary
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Watch Chap's Video: • Früwirth M1872 Austria...
Special Thanks to Jaime Regalado
3D arsenal
www.3darsenals...
Additional reading:
Die Hand- und Faustfeuerwaffe der habsburgischen Heer
Erich Gabriel
Rivista di artiglieria e genio Anno 1888
Revue d’Artillerie
1875 - October
1878 - October
1879 - April
1880 - April
1883 - April
1885 - April
1885 - October
1886 - October
Gazette des Armes
344
347
383
391
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Visit us at candrsenal.com
Part 1: 1 hour 27 minutes. Me: I like where this is going
*nods in agreement*
Sailor Gunner's mate petty officer Salutes and stands at attention for Admiral Maximilian Von Spee
Mark Aul *returns the salute* At ease sailor
Salute. I am in agreement!
A mysterious collector whos currently travelling and has a rare and obscure french rifle? I wonder who that could possibly be, I'm sure their name doesn't rhyme with Shmian Shmccollum.
Shun Shesus, is a potential alias.
Firearms jahova
Ready for my fatwa
the Allah of Armerments
The Muhammad of Muskets
insertjjs lol good one 👍
as if it wasnt already obvious that the image of the rifle says it was provided by Forgotten Weapons (with the logo F of course) at the bottom.
Wow. I didn't know that such a famous inventor was born in my home town. Bielitz is now Bielsko-Biała (Poland). Austro-Hungary was a great empire in its time. His name Kropatschek (czech - Kropáček, pol - Kropaczek) has slavic origin (probably Czech). Greetings from Poland
When talking about how countries made their decisions, "The Great War" series is a huge help in understanding the mind set. There are playlists on both channels of shows they worked together on. Highly recommend
That WAR WERE NOT DECLARED segment was beautiful, thanks!
As a Portuguese citizen I thank you for finally covering this rifle!
Prime Slayer Here’s the book idea you always wanted to write! “The story of the Kropatschek, with a forward by Othias”!
30:16 There's a reason you have to learn Replaceable Parts before you can build modern infantry in Civilization games.
indeed it was needed for a reason.
Even mere Riflemen in IV
With each upload, the video gets longer. Soon it shall be constant, unending. Each update shall be a livestream of Othias talking about the people, history, and backstory of a gun unceasingly, with Mae firing a single shot every 5 hours. Weekly a new stream shall start, without the old one ending. Othias will be in both, talking in both. All with become beard, WWD, and Patented Plastic.
With time all with be Othias discussing trials and minor changes to the sight picture. And with a single whistle Crozier shall end this world so that a new one can begin.
And thus Othias can finally get a day off.
But when does he say "War were declared"?
Or does he say it periodically? Are there now many simultaneous Great Wars being fought?
I'm so confused...
@@josiahgibson6373 Lessee: Atlantic, French, Italian, Mediterranean, North Sea, Northeast & Southeast ... wait, that's just theaters. hm.
I'm waiting for a 7h video on the MG34 and MG42 each.
one day he will bring up a modern pistol and talk about the matchlock and wheellock guns from the 15th century, and 4 hours later he will start talking about flintlocks
I guess you could say it's a... Forgotten Weapon?
For real though, thanks for all you guys do. You provide an invaluable resource and a very entertaining watch, be it 40 minutes or 100!
I'm... War not declared..ERROR...ERROR...ERR-
C G Oh no! 😭😢😓🤦🏼♀️
I'm sure Bloke is a great guy, but he's sadly lacking in pointing technology. His metal pokey pick is intimidating, and could be pointing with either end. I'm never sure what I'm supposed to be looking at. Perhaps he could be sent a patented plastic pokey hand to elevate the quality of his future media.
Rosie Tsureai Bloke is a great guy but that wasn’t him 😜 My pokey pick is carbon fibre (don’t want to scratch anything). Does that make it less intimidating 😁
Excuse me that was The Chap
I skipped over that part.
@@samiam619 nerd
Long name, Long rifle, Long video. I love how in depth you go on things that are just a footnote for others. Keep it up!
Thanks Chap great to have you as a “visiting professor “
At the very least I think Bloke deserves a Crozier approved patented plastic pokey...He did a VERY good demo with his..AND imagine how HEAVY it would be with a bayonet on it..lol
That was Chap
I have the bayonet, too. Crap! It’s 4 weeks before I can go home to “fix...bayonets” and see how much more it is!
So many people clearly don't subscribe to Bloke On The Range, because that was The Chap
16:50 an almost 150 years old rifle with no rust or 'patina'. I think the chap just became Mark's honorary step son.
Robin Schuhmacher Never have abrasives or chemical cleaners ever been near the gun whilst in my possession.
Woooooooot. It's time to bore my family with gun history as I use RUclips on the big TV in the living room.
LOL dude too funny.
C&r and bloke top 10 anime cross overs.
As usual, watching Mae shoot the weapons on this channel is a pleasure. She really seems to be enjoying herself, no matter the pain in the shoulder which, I would imagine, happens a lot.
Wait, wait. War Were Not Declared?! What madness is this?!
Peace were discovered.
I already subscribed to Ian, Bloke and C&R a long time ago of course :)
You might want to get in touch with Shotgun News. There was a guy who wrote an article about the Portuguese Kropatschek rifle. I think it maybe Mr. Foyer. The Portuguese soldiers and Marines did use these in combat in their African colonies before WWI. The Portuguese affectionately called this rifle as "The young girl who never gets any younger." . Because many of these rifles would stay in service with the colonial police till the early 1970s until when all of Portugal's African colonies fell and the Portuguese Armed Forces withdrew.
The more I watch this show, the more I get the impression that the Rifle Modèle 1886 M93 Lebel was the HMS Dreadnought of the land arms race. Obsolete by WWI, but destroyed everything else technologically when that cartridge was first adopted. Is that episode going to get "rebooted" given how crucial it seems to be for the show?
I just heard Othais say 'remake our first episode' so yeah.
sure this is C&Rsenal, i really think Othais will do it again. But Ian's video on the Lebel is no slouch either. No shooting nor animation but he goes over the rifle really really well too.
Thats a pretty good way to put it, although I think Dreadnought managed to set a better template overall. The Lebel is basically a Nelson with an extra set of 12-inch rifles. I would say the Mauser 1889 would be more revolutionary.
I'm never dissapointed by C&R video's simply late at viewing them , thanks for the tip about "Bloke on the Range . Thanks everyone !
This is the last small arms of ww1 episode I can watch before I leave for basic training:(
Good luck! It's tough, but as my old Drill Sergeant said, iron has to be forged with fire to become steel.
Best of luck, make friends and never forget your battle buddy, you will do fine.
Thanks guys!
Best of luck, mate. I’m off in February and feeling just as nervous..
Good luck! And remember, you are not an individual, snowflake! You are part of what your drill sergeant will eventually turn into a well-oiled machine!!
Found information on the number of rifles bought by Chile during the 1879 War of the Pacific and their price, it may be of interest:
Comblain II 18.206 rifles at £ 3,51 each
Gras 22.808 rifles at £ 2,48 each
Beaumont 9.964 rifles at £ 1,72 each
Kropatschek 1.952 rifles at £ 3,40 each
Winchester 4.868 carbines at £ 3.58 each
These are war contraband prices of course.
Im doing a tear down and detail cleaning on my just acquired Vetterli-Vitali while I watch this! I fully blame you guys for making me get it too!
Congrats on that purchase. How do you like it now.?
1870 Austro-Hungarian Gendarme: No Phone, No lights, No Motorcar, Not a single luxury, save a bolt-action repeater as primitive as can be
Amish Paradise by Weird Al?
Daniel Butka I believe it's a reference to the end credits song from Gilligan's Island.
I thought it was reference to Fairly Odd Parents?
@@Snowman1510ify I don't think so. The part of end of Gilligan's Island I think it is goes "No phone, no lights, no motor car, not a single luxury. Like Robinson Crusoe, it's primitive as can be."
no luxurys, you will go to heaven for that according to amish.
It's like a Mauser 71/84 and Lebel hybrid. I have one myself.
It's the CHAP!!! My dreams are coming true. Now if only we can get Ian in on this. Although that might create a singularity of awesome that destroys the universe...worth it.
I knew their was a reason why I couldn't get to sleep tonight. A disturbance in the force lead me here lol
Of all the episodes this is by far one of my favorites,I've seen every episode more than once or twice ❤
I wish my coworkers had as much dedication as C&Rsenal l. Fantastic production, presentation, and rich in relevant information.
Amazing channel!
I saw in a video about Winchester 1895 by Gun Jesus, he said that Russian Empire bought Kropatschek rifles for use in WW1 to fill up their rifle shortages
dandhan87 They bought the French ones, particularly the 1884s and 1885s.
The Chap did Portuguese took their Kropatscheks in WW1 alongside their Vergueiros or they too sold
it to Russia
The Russians bought literally everything to deal with rifle shortages
@@dandhan87 Portugal didn't sell theirs to Russia
YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!! DOG GOGGLES!!!!!!!!!
Doggles were declared!
Love the detail and the dedication to finding information on an obscure but major part of blasty stick history😀
I applaud the effort and details you put into these videos. Very handy for my job as a museum curator of firearms for which I don't always possess primary sources.
The click was the very first ping. So satisfying
Very good demo with the dummy rounds.
The long range volley sights were for lobbying projectiles as harassing fire onto grouped/camped cavalry and infantry, that may or maynot be camped behind a small rise. Of particular note was the use of this feature during the 1899 Boer war.
The Boers were particular good at this on Colonial troops.
I would say once the proper manuals and papers are found, all will be revealed.
I feel like this one has been teasing us off and on from the wall behind Othias for an eternity...
Never disappointed with C&Rsenal, Othais. Just happy for the content.
Beautiful rifle, Im glad Ian gave a shoutout to your channel and your indiegogo tshirt campaign. Looking forward to what guns you will bring and to digging through your backlog (already seen the Maxims, the Lewis, and the BAR videos).
Love the show Othais and the way you have been working on it, you really deserve a vacation. You too Mae
I've given up on tube loading as a good military option after the magazine came in. Sure they weren't ready to do more than fast load with clips but that was a step up. As for hunting my lever guns still work fine and Savage built a great lever gun with a magazine.
Out on a run miserable and you guys drop
Love y'all
I was laughing when the closed captioning gave me the 'crow magic' rifle..... then the 'crotch check' hit!
I can’t find the article but I remembered reading about the French Kropatchek being used in the 1884 Sino-Franco War at Tamsui, Formosa. The French Marines ran into Chinese troops superior in number armed with box magazine fed Lee Rifles. Although the French lost the battle they won the war.
I am now In Love with a newly to me discovered firearm, The Kropatschek.. this is a thing of beauty, and I will soon own one. I've been collecting mostly WW2 guns from all sides for many years. But this is my first in depth look at this one. It is amazing , The Berthier is also now on my must have list.. I cannot wait to own both.
A bayonet lug for a front sight... 😁
Engineers are such a special breed.
What makes Othias such an exceptional presenter ; comparing the Bloke's presentation to his, I can see that Othias' keen eye for detail extends to his choice of colour for his pokie. That simple change makes for such difference in clarity..
Ian has the French 1878!! Haha. The first time you mentioned I pretty much took an educated guess, but the second time you said it and the image showed up on the screen I noticed it said "image provided by Forgotten Weapons" I knew right then I was right, haha. Can't wait for the video Ian, and always, great video Othias. I love these longer episodes. I always get a little whipped up when I see the notification. Lol.
Thank you Jaime Regalado for Helping
Nice to see tag-teas that work so well. Love Bloke and love his love of the finest bolt-action battle rifle ever ade.
I love your videos, perfect balance of informative, interesting yet still watchable. To Othias, Mae and all the other people behind the scenes of C&Rsenal; I thank you.
I think the feeding system is quite clever, with tips of the cartridges pointing *away* from the primer, which reduces the risk of a chain fire. I wish more tube-fed rifles used a similar system.
An opinion on "why the mauser 71 action": existing tooling! If you can adapt your forgings required for your new project to exploit an already "running, debugged, and efficient" shop line, your manufacturing of the "latest and greatest" is streamlined to a quite significant degree, from the die sinking shop all the way to the workers cranking out the parts. Everybody already knows the process because it's old hat. Hans and Franz don't need ANY significant retraining to run the hammers, Karel and Otto in the sinking shop are just doing what they already did for a decade on 2/3 of the die sandwich set, at least. That works out to a far lower problem count on the initial crank up of the line, and a far superior initial product as far as the "big parts" are concerned. It also means trim dies can be used that you already have, inspector gauges could possibly be reused, and similar "shop economy" benefit right on down the line.
Love the peace footage :)
I have a beautiful Kropatschek short rifle with all matching numbers including bolt. I've been waiting for you to cover this rifle. Thank you very much. I look forward to watching this now :)
The 1.952 Chilean Kropatscheks were sent to Chile on the Almvick Castle (Alnwick, maybe?) on December 13th, 1880. Btw. Each costing 85 francs, compared to the 43 francs of each Beaumont claimed to be acquired at a fire sale price. 16.000 Gras were contracted at 65 francs each as well.
Trigger weight sounds like a fantastic training riffle.
Othias, I get as excited for your program as I used to for like DBz when I was 12. You and your whole crew are the best
I'm amazed at the excellent condition of the fruwitrth, with it being an obscure rifle nowadays.
Fugging incredible!
This is what anticipation will do. At 1:03 you said "war were NOT declared" I did a double take so hard I almost pulled something. That said, another great episode of a very obscure yet influential gun. And oh yea, don't mess with the Mae. Ya gotta love it.
L O N G B O I
The little engineer in my brain loves this gun. Amazing work!
And then war were declared because war weren't declared.
Also super excited to see chap from BotR.
I so excited. My low serial number portuguese kropatschek coming in this week
I started watching you guys from your Great War Collab, and am mostly a history buff, but I have developed a new interest in old firearms after watching your show. Keep it up!
Like anything else, if you spread out the research you can get a pretty cool picture of what was going on at the time
Thank you for all your research. Enjoy your trip, safe travels.
40:43 is it Ian ? it must be Ian!
I love the metal work on those old guns
nice thing about the slow motion, you can see Mae doesn't flinch at all
I love the term kinesthetic applies to so many good things.
yeah!!! Primary source research for the win!
I'm not sure but I think in the Heeres Geschichtliche Museum in Vienna in the ww1 and naval parts of the museum there are Kropatschek rifles.
Greetings from Austria.
Great Job again guys.
I inherited one of these from my father. I have no idea why he bought this back in the 70s but I cant find any ammo for it
Excellent as always, beautiful rifle and présentation, cheers from France
I was hoping for another machine gun or something as fun as that, but this will definitely wet my whistle till two weeks from now or however long I must wait for some of the submachine guns and machine guns that was used in the war because I love the way these videos are produce and how the info is laid out.
As we've come to expect, an excellent episode!!! Back when Krop rifles were dirt cheap, I acquired more than a few. None of them showed signs of any recent refurb, but all functioned flawlessly. I would argue that it was the best build quality of any of the BP era military repeaters I've handled. It is a shame that they have some of the worst sights of that era. From a bench rest they as a group are very accurate....but with the sights and weight issues, field accuracy is regrettably mediocre at best.
Great video of the Kropatschek. Shooting the black powder cartridge is great. The boom that comes out of the gun is awesome. I do not have any problems with both and the sights. Bolt is very secure and the sights clear (at least to me). The only thing that was hard to watch for me was the bolt of rifle in the video. Please clean it. The bolt handle is supposed to look blank like the rest of the bolt, not black. Also the stock can be made much lighter by cleaning well and re-oiling. Especially if you steam out some the dents, it can really look great.
These rifles were used to well into the 1960's, so they had quite a long run. The fact that they look so nice (not all, because I've seen them in a terrible state) is probably due to the fact that they were obsolete from the moment the Portuguese had them and the fact that the black powder cartridge was only used for about 5 years before they switched to smokeless powder.
It would be interesting if you mentioned stock dimensions for the guns that you present. Length of pull , pitch and cast would give us some idea of the ergonomics of the gun.
Thanks
Yiannis
Rifles in that period were like computers in the 1980s. Revolutionary state of the art today, woefully obsolete a month later. I hadn't appreciated how fast things were changing back then.
Today, Othias you are on the road...wish I was.. You.. how to say this so it counts? Man. YOU FLIPPIN ROCK! I know small arms. I am not a "talent" but I really do. And, you guy... are refreshing . This one is as your others: full of data, and information.Data.. My GWAD man! you are DATA INCARNATE! Speaking of this time, I bought a Belgian Beaumont . I made ammo. 41 Beaumont has not been made for about 160 years... I have 7 rounds...It took me 15 to make that 7... Pricy and teaching. Mine are correct for the rifle. You sir...made me Look HARD at this stuff. . Othias I learn YE GODS!!! I learn from you...and Ian and Bloke..Iranvet, Sootch, and a lot of others. But you...You ARE history to me, and, btw I majored in it in college. Sir....I salute You!
I wont be on the road for like 5 more days tho
I understand your pain of making obsolete ammo. I have a Kropatschek and you start with an obsolete Winchester case. THEN you have to grind down the outside of the rim to form a bottom of a bowl is the only way to describe it. The face of the bolt isn’t flat... it’s a dish.
Thanks!
Beautiful gun.
I had an Austrian one of these. Sold it for $240.... Really regret that decision. 😭
Every time you say the name of that gun I think your saying Croke Patrick a holy shrine type place in Ireland
I might as well throw this question in here, as any other video. Upgrading to a new rifle is "expensive", as mentioned several times. But can anyone give me an indication how expensive? How many percent of a yearly army budget would go into it, for how many years? Would it eat most, or just be a heavy drain? It would be easier to judge the thinking of going with a worse, but cheaper version, or staying with a somewhat outdated model with some indication around this. Thanks for the series. Learning a lot about the development of WWI hardware situation through this!
YES THE KORPATSCHECK IS FINALLY HERE! All we need now is the Veterli. Also WHO DA FAQ DISLIKE THE VIDEO IT HASN’T EVEN BEEN OUT FOR AN HOUR!
we did the vetterli?
Meant the Swiss Veterli... sorry 😐
I wish that you folks could shoot the Winchester-Hotchkiss and compare the it to the Kropatschek. Having five rounds in the stock would eliminate the problems of having the mag under the barrel I would think, though it would not speed loading any and might make it slower "having to load rounds backwards into the stock and all." Anyway it would be an interesting video to watch. Thank you guys so much I have enjoyed watching you and learned a lot.
A wild Chap appears
vogonford It all a bluff, l’m actually quite tame and more or less house trained.
That's very interesting..I love the older generations of military weapons..I have just a few.
Very good history here..I just found your channel, and enjoy it very much!
That rifle has a very interesting action..
Well done Chap (& Bloke!)
firstly, safe travels and i hope you have a great time.
another excellent episode. it was a surprise to hear the background music. personally i cannot decide if it adds or not but it doesn't detract.
Idk why, but watching Mae hold the gun really conveyed how effing big the gun is
True interchangeably was developed in the Springfield armory in the early 1800's and adopted in the US arms industry before the Civil War. This became known as the American System in Europe in the 1870's. This was slow in adoption in Europe due to tradition and how the gun trade was organized.
oh no!!!! a 2 parter, that means we’ll have to suffer through more interesting content.
I can see the culture of Austrian bureaucracy hasn't changed much during the last one and a half centuries. I heard some stories from someone who used to work in Austrian administration more recently.
One thing is certain. If I ever time travel to the 1870s, i'm still getting myself a Werder Blitzgewehr M/69 instead of any of the early tube-loaders...
Grab me one too