The Mosin-Nagant. The gateway drug for most milsurp collectors. It maybe one of the cheapest guns you ever buy, but one of the most expensive purchases you will make. My oldest Mosin is a 1898 Sestroryetsk 3 Line M91.
My oldest and first was a gift from a relative, 1907 built '03 Springfield that survived both wars... Mosin my be the the cheapest gateway drug to MilSurp... But once you get a Mauser you will NEVER stop. I'm up to 5 now. And that's fine DIFFERENT rifles not 5 Springfield's. American, Swedish, Turkish and 2 German
Milsurp Mike Channel, if you were around firearms in he US during the 60’s, up until maybe the 1990’s you seldom, if ever saw a Mosin. I remember shooting everything from old Remington Rolling Blocks to M-14 rifle’s. I had a chance to buy a mint Mosin for get this $35, back in 1972. I shot it and at the time I’d rather of shot the Rolling Block. Now, now I’m not so sure.. This s absolutely not proven, but from working in gun shops, the main reason why Mosin rifles became popular is due to several factors; one, the rifles were cheap as long as Russia, and others was dumping them on the market -often you could buy four Mosins for one worn out Lee-Enfields, two, as it was connected with the Soviet Union, it was one of the “bad guys” rifles, very much somewhat why WWII German weapons were in high demand (absent the sometimes high quality and 3, the Mosin achieved significant popularity with its heavy presence in some first person shooter video games.
@@kitchenjail3546 Lol nope, those guns hated by the Russian and ended in foreign army like the Czech and Finn. You cant put scope on it, you cant prone on it and have multiple parts.
@@yulusleonard985 Could you not just turn the rifle to the side when recharging while printed? Sure, you'll interrupt your sight picture, but that really doesn't seem like that big of a deal breaker to me.
In WWI the British brought a battle rifle, the Americans brought a target rifle, the Germans brought a hunting rifle and the Russians brought....a rifle.
@@andrewmoore7022 Zut alors! How could you say such things!? The French did not bring a bad rifle, they brought the single greatest yeeter of rifle grenades of the war!
Awesome as Always ! You Should have have 740.000 subscribers by now , Othias & Mae are excellent Teachers , this has to be one of the most interesting episode's yet and deserved every minute I spent watching it (It took Me 3 days as I have no internet at home and have to watch at work during My breaks) these Folk work So hard for our enrichment , the whole team deserve more praise than I am capable . Thanks All at C&R .
"While they would ultimately win, they suffered extreme casualties in the process and it took longer than they expected" seems to sum up most Russian military actions over the last 200 years.
Thats BS. Story about "horrendous losses" nothing but western propaganda. There are tons of fights and battles where Russian won having less men and much less casualties. But in the west everything is upside down and wrong casualties numbers wrong literally everything. Total propaganda. Its proven dozen of times when germans or french increase russian casualties like 2-3 times and everything just repeat it all the time for political propaganda. Great example are Napoleonic wars WW1 and ww2. In ww2 Russians lost less men per 1 killed german than USA, (1.3 USSR vs 1.6 USA) but in everyones mind on the west its like Russian lost gazillions and didnt care about soldiers and didnt kill much. which is just banana BS. EVERY single general does care abput soldiers cause noone wants lose people and stay without army,. Another MYTH about general winter or other excuses for europeans lost so many wars to Russians. After that west is malding and repeat all BS again and again and cry about exuses why russians won so many times. Wester (europeans) never accepted fact that Russians fought MUCH better in many cases on strategic or tactical level. Just suvorov is example who won like 60 battles and didnt lose a sigle one and most times had less ppl than enemy. But when you start reading western sources of that time it all complete BS everytime CNN fake news for centuries.
This episode was a C&Rsenal masterpiece. You took a weapon with a complicated and subtle history and really did it justice. I don't know how you got to be so good at doing this, but please keep doing it.
In my personal opinion about the quality of the weapon, yes, it might have been inferior in handling to other rifles of the time, but seeing how that was because of design compromises to make the rifle easy to make...well if you are forced to mobilize an army that can be as large as the Russian army was, you demanded something easy and cheap to build. That never comes without sacrifices and that the Mosin-Nagant did make those sacrifices shouldn't really detract that much from the rifle itself. The question always remains wether is better to have 3.500.000 Rifles that work and fire and are reliable, even if they are inferior in handling to other nations' rifles...or to have only half of that number that work beautifully. For a small country it's obvious it's the latter. For Russia?....for russia it's all about making it as simple as easy to make as possible to churn it in as big numbers as possible. For me is clear the Mosin-Nagant did what it was supposed to do and had the characteristics that Russia demanded out of the rifle - not all of them have to make for a splendid rifle ,but better to have a mountain of so-so rifles than few very good rifles (and much better than no rifle at all). So I still like the weapon for what it was. It served in two different world wars (different versions but even then), so noone can say that it didn't do what it was supposed to do. Considering the ammount of firearms out there that didn't do exactly that, I'd still rate the Mosin-Nagant as one of the all-time great rifles, even if imperfect and with some significant issues. And bloody heck, guys. 1 hour 40 minutes of a spectacular lesson on firearms and history. You're one of the best treasures RUclips has to offer nowadays. SPLENDID JOB!.
Well, I've got one and my conclusion is slightly different. The rifle itself is surprisingly awesome, but the main problem is not the rail, but rather the cocking-piece and the usage of rimmed ammo. I've tuned my bolt (and done a trigger job, but that's unrelated) to the point where it really runs smoothly, but that required fiddling with the geometry of the cocking piece and some hours of work. Not the kind of effort that you would do for a cheap mass-produced piece of crap. The same design, if produced to the machining standards of German or Japanese stuff and perhaps allowed some more refinement and improvement of the details would not be in any way inferior to other guns. It's really the fit and finish that ruin it.
The thing is that the design itself is bad. Split-bridge receiver? The location of the bolt handle? Feed control? Single-stack magazine? The Mosin can be understood within the context of “we need to arm millions of poorly-trained peasants cheaply”, but that’s it. As for non-Russian manufacture Mosins, there was a large batch manufactured here in the US by Remington and at least one other company. They’re still bad.
We must also remember, this is an older design than many of the rifles it would end up facing, and was meant to compete with the likes of the Gew 88, 86 Lebel, and the older straight-pull Mannlichers. There is something to be said for sticking with something that you know how to make and can make a boat-load of when you have to deal with the scale of the Russian military. I'm actually pretty fond of the Mosin as a shooter and the action is pretty easy to deal with via the proper application of lubricants (specifically putting lithium grease on the cam surface that cocks the striker, does wonders for even the worst of the stiff bolts).
"Obviously I don't have enough penguins for the entire rifle." PLEASE put this on a t shirt. Preferably with a bunch of tiny penguins trying to lift a Mosin.
This is the episode that convinced me to become a paetron. I've been enjoying your content for a while now and I can't remember a single ad before, during or after one of your videos. The depth and extent of research done by the team is not to be taken for granted. Yt being a private company can flick this channel without providing rhyme or reason. I love the way Othias explains how this feature is different to the ones before in a manner of a good friend telling you about his new toy. It's less like a tutorial and more like a Saturday arvo over a beer. A then we get to play with the new toy with Mae, who always has a shit eating grin after firing! The T-Gewer in particular! My only complaint is that the videos are too long to wait for but Im also excited when they drop knowing they are delivered by people who's options I respect.
Being a Patron, I see these a week early, so I go through this process: > "New C&Rsenal! Awesome!" > "Oh, wait, I've already seen this one, darn." > "Screw it, I'll watch it again anyway!"
The Soviets wanted a new rifle , but it had been pushed back , the tanks and planes were more urgent When the SVT 38 was rejected by the Army , Stalin quipped " Well we are stuck with the old 3 lines for a bit longer " then the war made any rifle a critical need P.S the SVT slowly solved it's fault , the model 40 was way better
I must be the luckiest Mosin Nagant owner in the world: Mine was made in 1928. Wood and metal in superb condition.. My bolt and trigger work fine, even on par with my Savage Axis and TC Compass modern rifles. As far as the hand rest placement, put on three layers of wool clothing and then your thickest and warmest winter coat. Then, take the Mosin and put it up to your shoulder. I live in upper Michigan and it has snowed in May. And I have shot this rifle in very cold weather. No lock ups ever. Deadly accurate at man sized targets at 200 yards. Oh, yes. I use modern, high quality lubricant and keep it meticulously clean. That's the secret. Love your video. Love May!
Brilliant! I waited on this one until I had time to really pay attention. The work you are doing here is truly amazing. Your channel is better than anything t.v. Has to offer. I just want to say that this is finally the first milsurp rifle that Mae hasn't smiled through firing. If that doesn't endear this rifle to history then I don't know what does. Please don't stop...love your films!
I have a 1942 surplus 91/30 with all matching numbers and even bayonet. And at 100 yards I can hit 1 inch groups with open sights. I love my mosin, I thought the bolt was okay considering when it was made, but then I got my 1919 1903 Springfield and realized that...yeah...the mosin bolt leaves a lot to be desired lol. But I still love shooting it.
This rifle has to be seen in the context of having pretty unsophisticated soldiers subjected to horrible wintry conditions with heavy snow falls , mud etc., using it wearing whilst wearing heavy jackets, frozen fingers etc. It goes bang every time..that counts for something in minus 20 C....
The Mosin-Nagant is really about a gun's 40-year long comeback story. It's about a rifle that suffered its first defeat against Arisaka, got decimated by Mauser, and then nearly destroyed itself in a series of existential crises. After a long recovery (but with a more totalitarian outlook), Mosin tried to drunkenly quarrel with its Finnish cousin, but got injured so badly that it gave Mauser an opportunity to annihilate Mosin. But the Russian rifle held on and despite its opponent's superiority, managed to turn the tide and conquer the German rifle's homeland. And then Mosin returned to his original adversary, Arisaka, and then defeated it in a month. (Of course, Arisaka was just recently crippled from its fight against Hanyang, Springfield, and Lee-Enfield)
I'd say that the Mauser wasn't the same as before. That Mauser lacked grace and discipline a weapon of war yes but just as easily used for other things in war that aren't shooting at soldiers
@@23GreyFox I was implying the Difference between the Gewehr 98 and the Kar98k, o top of that most Mauser Rifles where Hunting rifles, not purpose built military Rifles
Thank you for your informative video. I am a Mongolian. From the age of 16 I started to use mosin. At that time, there weren't many western rifles in Mongolia. I was so amazed to see exit wound of this bullet and its long range capabilities. Many times I have seen exit wound of 20 cms in diameter. The most amazing thing I have ever seen was my uncle used to hit animals at the range of 800-1000 meters with mosin without scope. I have also seen some hunters shoot with mosin like semi-auto rifles. They reload it unbelievable fast. I personally shoot really fast and I never seen cartridges jams. Army cartridges rapture very often, but it never jammed in the chamber. I agree that mosin too heave and long and it's bolt is hard to pull.
Everytime I see the rifles in the episode and in the background I am filled with envy. Thanks for posting this and increasing our knowledge and appreciation of firearms history.
I own this gun for 2 reasons. 1 it is fun to shoot. And if you can get proficient with the crappy bolt action and a long creepy trigger pull, you will be halfway decent with any other gun. And 2, the history the same reason I own flintlocks. So I can get appreciation for what the people who went to war before me worked with.
Oh my God I can't believe I missed this episode back when it was released. The penguins are ingenious, that was actually a great way to visualize the issue.
Mauser rifles - Revolutionary bolt system, great hunter's rifle. Lee Enfield - Very fast very smooth action. Mosin Nagant - A cheap rifle back in the day. Mosin Nagant rifles are nice, the wood on them is beautiful but that's all I can really say, Mosin Nagants were famous for being cheap surplus rifles with a good cartridge back when they were imported.
Maybe I am not the first one to notice, but you did not say that that harmful rail may be used as a wrench to unscrew the striker pin ( the long notch at the back macthes it). I own an M38. Only death will stop me from watching your vids, Othias. Regards, Yevgen from Ukraine.
I have always regarded this as a historical gun show. Ian does a gun show. You guys have a larger ambit with the historical context so no, I don't see it as just a gun show. I've learned a lot about life and the times in the pre-1900 period and thank you. It is fascinating.
No offense, but this episode was a 10/10 before the penguins and after you brought them out it was a uhhhhh... well, numbers cannot describe such a beautiful work of art
In case I forgot to mention it, another excellent posting... very informative history lesson and very entertaining as well. Merry Christmas 2022, and Happy Yuletide to you and Mae!❄
Excellent video guys! I have been waiting on this video for several years and you guys did not disappoint! This rifle will forever hold a special place in my heart as the first centerfire rifle my dad ever bought me and was the only centerfire I trained with for all of my teen years until I could buy a rifle of my own. For those that bash the Mosin, honestly I ask you examine its history and the goals set to make the rifle what it is, but I also ask you examine what gun you personally own. Mine was a peacetime model made with love and care, slick bolt that doesn't stick, accurate out to 200 yrds blasting pop cans with iron sights on lazy Sunday afternoons, what more could you ask of a rifle without a scope and thick sights? I can understand the positively wretched war models, but my Mosin is not and will never be a "garbage rod". Again, great video guys shining the light on this oft maligned old warhorse thats still carrying the torch over 100 years later.
Dude, it really does suck at everything except at being an historical "piece" of history. It is good for what it was. A $65 rifle that used to have cheap ammo to get new and interested people into shooting. Other than those things, it really does suck. The Finnish ones are better but still not worth the current prices.
The first rifle I purchased as an 18 year old. An m-44 7.62 x54r from, Big 5 Sporting Goods cost $89 on sale. I would not say I have a deep low for this rifle. I would stay However, I do have a profound appreciation for that 18 year old boy at his local shooting range with a few boxes of ammo in that carbine with the side folding bayonet
The Finn M91 is my personal soft spot, though I mostly shoot a 91/30 sniper, because it's nice to be able to see the target. Some of mine have wonderful triggers, and I've shot ones that are like pulling a rubber boot out of a foot of soft mud. It does not have that bank vault smoothness of a Mauser, but there is instead some rough and simple nature that lends to a romantic sort of nostalgia. There are none today like this one; an imperfect anachronism, along with its obsolete cartridge that yet retains relevance.
I feel like the fiddly bits almost the same upgrade to save money is just part of their military. Just look at how the AK-12 went from the 2012 prototype to the 2017 production type. The 2017 one might as well be an AK-74 with aftermarket parts tbh.
Othais brilliantly goes on in detail to describe every feature of the mosin nagant. For me what the mosin needs is a better bolt handle, at least make it at as long a mauser bolt handle. Whether an action is smooth or not is not an important military issue. leverage is important.
I bought my mosin for 150 bucks at a store in 2009 I was 18 it’s was my first firearm and I will never let it go. That same time I bought 400 rounds of surplus 7.62x54 wasted all those tuna cans never had a hiccup. I never break it out anymore but I love that firearm
I love watching this episode. I own a 91/30 from '42 and I absolutely love it. Put a reproduction scope on it and its extremely accurate. Always watch this episode with my Mosin out whenever possible.
I own around 11 of these, my favorite being A 1915 Tula barreled action M1891 in a 1916 Sestroryetsk stock (with surviving Imperial markings and SA stamp). Russia's first gun to fire their first smokeless round. My only complaint is the lack of vents for ruptured cases. Speaking of ruptured, I hope that you mention in some video the Russian issued firing pin guage. It was considered so critical by the USSR that the guages were included in most cleaning kits.-John in Texas
They don't care. They only got on board the Moist Nugget because of cheap ammo and rifles. No matter the stupid vertical bolt or the block of wood to open requirement.
How, exactly, is it "absurd"? It's a demonstration of the fact that the Mosin design is shit. I made that comment because I am sick of the mall ninja types who run around talking about how amazing their rifled turds are. The Mosin is an objectively bad design made worse by poor manufacturing. I actually prefer the Lee design to the Mauser as a battle rifle and as a shooter. Most of the milsurps in my collection are Lees of some flavour. But all of my hunting bolt actions have Mauser actions, because if I'm going to be touching off a .375 H&H mag, I want the strongest action I can get. However, there were Lee action sporting rifles, and tens of thousands of people still use them for hunting. Nobody ever made a sporting version of the Mosin. In fact, after being used only in Russia/Combloc countries and Finland, they got shoved into the substance that starts with a "C" for sixty years. And the design went onto the ash heap of history where is belongs. And don't forget about how popular the Winchester lever actions were with the Russians, or about the fact that the Soviets were replacing them with subguns at every opportunity on the Eastern front. It's a bad rifle, and it's time that we acknowledged that fact.
What can I say? Some people are masochistic. I'll take an SMLE or a No. 4 over any Mauser as a shooter any day, but you'd be hard pressed to get me to give up either for the garbage rod.
ARonk: My worst rifle ever was a No. 4 produced by Savage. The bolt head would jump out of the track every time the bolt was racked unless you did it reeeeeeeeeal slow. Jammed every time. I traded it for a Finn 91, best rifle I have ever owned.
I can't unsee this - there's a depth of field effect that makes it look like there is someone behind Othias that is the person waving his arms while Othias has his below the desk.
There's actually one more function of the interrupter mechanism, however I have no idea if it was intentionally done or not. The interrupter, when the last round in the clip slips past it, can kick up to automatically eject the now empty clip. This only works if the clip is of proper dimension, and it isn't 100% reliable given that. I hope it was intentional though, because that'd be extremely clever.
I think chain detonations would be more worrysome in blackpowder than smokeless because black powder tends to be more volatile plus like you said, light primers of the age
It depresses me that this great channel that has produced 74 videos of fantastic content is still under a hundred thousand subs. I guess it's down to the fortnightly release of videos. I hope one day this channel receives the recognition it is due and a wider number of people come to love it as I have.
Thank you for this video! I have been trying to figure out why my Nagant has been firing once and then jamming. I have cleaned, then cleaned it again, brought it to a witch doctor to remove any curses or hexes, and cleaned it again. I found out that the one I got (was a Christmas gift) was one that was coated in that substance to prevent rust and was in a crate where as my brothers was a used one and works great right out of the gate. Your breakdown of the bolt might be the missing clue and will be ripping it down tonight! Thanks again for the video
Good and thorough presentation of the M91.. Thank you. Thank you too for playing the Russian-language version of Боже , Царя храни- Bozhe, Tsarya khrani! God Save The Tsar! Some us are descended from monarchists and have not forgotten....
WOW man I hate to see you have problems, wish I had some extra funds to sent your way but those days are long gone. Now I live on Social Security and VA Disability as well as a bit from Workers Comp. Together I have enough money to buy food and utilities for my house, paid for now some 20 years back. Thanks a billion for the great addition to my gun knowledge, even as a former gunsmith there a lot of things I did not know of that today I do thanks to your research and publication of facts.
I must have lucked out, my 1943 Izzy Mosin is as smooth as butter with a bright bore and strong rifling. It is a pleasure to shoot and probably more accurate than I capable of. The trigger felt like crap, but a forward set spring helped somewhat.
You just described my Mosin! :D Though mine was shortened in 1959 (or sometime later) into a 1891/59, and I have done some ergonomic improvements myself. A quick vid on working the bolt: ruclips.net/video/2U3B3qtUmEw/видео.html
+Another part the cocking-piece rides against during cocking is the upper left wall of the receiver. ++After that, the only thing left to blame is the 1/16" gap in the camming-surfaces between the bolt-carrier and cocking-piece. - - - I suppose one could grind/chop/cut off the camways and make it a cock-on-closing system. Additionally, a way to tighten the tolerances on the receiver/rail/cocking-piece interfaces, would be to build-up a weld-bead on the back outside edge of the rail, and back-bottom edge of the cocking-piece (not the bottom-front, since that'll make slipping it off from safety painfully difficult). Then grinding it back down. Since none of those parts are particularly load-bearing. It won't "eliminate" the rail-rubberiness, but it will make a worn-down Mosin cycle like a premium quality-controlled Mosin. Because at the end of the day, it's still a Mosin. Orrrr you can shim the back end (left side) of the rail with a layer of tape.(2 layers of masking tape wrapped around the entire left fork, in my case)
I paid $125 for a 1917 Tula made 1891 a few years ago. It is an absolute riot to shoot. With a sight radius measured in feet, it is surprisingly accurate (about 2 to 2.5 MOA until it gets hot). The weight and 31.5" barrel minimize recoil and muzzle blast to a level similar to a 30-30 Winchester. A fun, accurate, shooter and cheap ammo too. Wish I'd bought 10 of them.
The Mosin-Nagant. The gateway drug for most milsurp collectors. It maybe one of the cheapest guns you ever buy, but one of the most expensive purchases you will make. My oldest Mosin is a 1898 Sestroryetsk 3 Line M91.
Not for me it was the Lee Enfield
Milsurp Mike Channel omg no truer words were said. I'm now up to 2 rifle safes. Sure bye that hundred dollar gun.
My oldest and first was a gift from a relative, 1907 built '03 Springfield that survived both wars... Mosin my be the the cheapest gateway drug to MilSurp... But once you get a Mauser you will NEVER stop. I'm up to 5 now. And that's fine DIFFERENT rifles not 5 Springfield's. American, Swedish, Turkish and 2 German
In Canada, the SKS seems to be peoples go to rifle when they get a milsurp for the first time. However the Mosin Nagant is never far behind.
Milsurp Mike Channel, if you were around firearms in he US during the 60’s, up until maybe the 1990’s you seldom, if ever saw a Mosin. I remember shooting everything from old Remington Rolling Blocks to M-14 rifle’s.
I had a chance to buy a mint Mosin for get this $35, back in 1972. I shot it and at the time I’d rather of shot the Rolling Block.
Now, now I’m not so sure..
This s absolutely not proven, but from working in gun shops, the main reason why Mosin rifles became popular is due to several factors; one, the rifles were cheap as long as Russia, and others was dumping them on the market -often you could buy four Mosins for one worn out Lee-Enfields, two, as it was connected with the Soviet Union, it was one of the “bad guys” rifles, very much somewhat why WWII German weapons were in high demand (absent the sometimes high quality and 3, the Mosin achieved significant popularity with its heavy presence in some first person shooter video games.
"The Russian response to taking fire from Winchester repeater rifles was... hurry up."
love it
Ironically, they ended up buying Winchester guns later one. And the soldiers loved those.
@@kitchenjail3546 Lol nope, those guns hated by the Russian and ended in foreign army like the Czech and Finn. You cant put scope on it, you cant prone on it and have multiple parts.
The Russians didn’t bother putting scopes on rifles until after WW1
@@yulusleonard985 Could you not just turn the rifle to the side when recharging while printed? Sure, you'll interrupt your sight picture, but that really doesn't seem like that big of a deal breaker to me.
@Random Pickle Lol wut? M1891 is inspired from Paul Mauser works and all his works are far more simple than any John Browning works.
"Obviously, I don't have enough penguins for the entire rifle." -Othais 25:25
Best quote of the series.
"With one penguin at the top...
there we go."
Man they should write books about this stuff.
Need some mosins to equip my weaponised assault penguins
Penguins per round sounds like a Russian unit of penetration.
"so yeah no more butt loaders" -Othais 26:38
"More than 1 million men without arms." Well I guess they don't need rifles then.
penguins don't have arms either!
...well played good sir or madame.
Ba-dum-bump! Dash!
(that's a rimshot)
Lol ffs thats great
What a waste of lives of so many.
Small Arms of WWII Primer 273: German MG42 (7 hours 43 minutes)
We can only hope :)
since the '42 is based on '34, I can only imagine how long the '34 video would be in that case.
I can hardly wait !
I cant wait for the Garand
b. griffin - one week? I mean a FULL week.
In WWI the British brought a battle rifle, the Americans brought a target rifle, the Germans brought a hunting rifle and the Russians brought....a rifle.
That's all it needed to be really, for a regular infantryman at least.
And the Canadians brought a paperweight
And the Gurkhas brought really scary knives.
And the French brought a bad rifle.
@@andrewmoore7022 Zut alors! How could you say such things!? The French did not bring a bad rifle, they brought the single greatest yeeter of rifle grenades of the war!
My nephew is obsessed with that penguin toy. I will hear that music in my nightmares, I thank you for sparing me listening to it more.
Awesome as Always ! You Should have have 740.000 subscribers by now , Othias & Mae are excellent Teachers , this has to be one of the most interesting episode's yet and deserved every minute I spent watching it (It took Me 3 days as I have no internet at home and have to watch at work during My breaks) these Folk work So hard for our enrichment , the whole team deserve more praise than I am capable .
Thanks All at C&R .
"no more butt loading for the Russians.". -Othais
Lmao
"There's a lot going on back here."
"View all 3 replies"
*clicks button, sees 2 replies*
You still suck RUclips.
This is truly great content.
Eks calybur that’s usually the result of a deleted comment.
This channel receives waaaay too little attention for the quality It delivers.
ik right??
Totally agree 👍
Amen
They should see if they can partner with a university for firearms history
@@jasonmartin1668 ä
"While they would ultimately win, they suffered extreme casualties in the process and it took longer than they expected" seems to sum up most Russian military actions over the last 200 years.
I want to agree but your name makes me hesitate.
@@quentinhoward99
Elves deserve the right to be porked too
Damn succubi taking all the men
This really hasn't changed as of late
yet again, Russia has proven this statement correct.
Thats BS. Story about "horrendous losses" nothing but western propaganda. There are tons of fights and battles where Russian won having less men and much less casualties. But in the west everything is upside down and wrong casualties numbers wrong literally everything. Total propaganda. Its proven dozen of times when germans or french increase russian casualties like 2-3 times and everything just repeat it all the time for political propaganda.
Great example are Napoleonic wars WW1 and ww2.
In ww2 Russians lost less men per 1 killed german than USA, (1.3 USSR vs 1.6 USA) but in everyones mind on the west its like Russian lost gazillions and didnt care about soldiers and didnt kill much. which is just banana BS.
EVERY single general does care abput soldiers cause noone wants lose people and stay without army,.
Another MYTH about general winter or other excuses for europeans lost so many wars to Russians.
After that west is malding and repeat all BS again and again and cry about exuses why russians won so many times.
Wester (europeans) never accepted fact that Russians fought MUCH better in many cases on strategic or tactical level.
Just suvorov is example who won like 60 battles and didnt lose a sigle one and most times had less ppl than enemy. But when you start reading western sources of that time it all complete BS everytime CNN fake news for centuries.
This episode was a C&Rsenal masterpiece. You took a weapon with a complicated and subtle history and really did it justice. I don't know how you got to be so good at doing this, but please keep doing it.
My God, the penguins are amazing! A weapon to end all wars!
a weapon to surpass metal gear
those penguins are WMD's
Weapons of mass distraction!!!
No penguins were harmed in the filming of this historical document....... I still want to hear that tune... .
Have you seen the penguin from Wallace and Gromit? That thing puts terror into the heart of men.
In my personal opinion about the quality of the weapon, yes, it might have been inferior in handling to other rifles of the time, but seeing how that was because of design compromises to make the rifle easy to make...well if you are forced to mobilize an army that can be as large as the Russian army was, you demanded something easy and cheap to build. That never comes without sacrifices and that the Mosin-Nagant did make those sacrifices shouldn't really detract that much from the rifle itself.
The question always remains wether is better to have 3.500.000 Rifles that work and fire and are reliable, even if they are inferior in handling to other nations' rifles...or to have only half of that number that work beautifully. For a small country it's obvious it's the latter. For Russia?....for russia it's all about making it as simple as easy to make as possible to churn it in as big numbers as possible.
For me is clear the Mosin-Nagant did what it was supposed to do and had the characteristics that Russia demanded out of the rifle - not all of them have to make for a splendid rifle ,but better to have a mountain of so-so rifles than few very good rifles (and much better than no rifle at all).
So I still like the weapon for what it was. It served in two different world wars (different versions but even then), so noone can say that it didn't do what it was supposed to do. Considering the ammount of firearms out there that didn't do exactly that, I'd still rate the Mosin-Nagant as one of the all-time great rifles, even if imperfect and with some significant issues.
And bloody heck, guys. 1 hour 40 minutes of a spectacular lesson on firearms and history. You're one of the best treasures RUclips has to offer nowadays. SPLENDID JOB!.
in Russia its called Mosin.
Well, I've got one and my conclusion is slightly different.
The rifle itself is surprisingly awesome, but the main problem is not the rail, but rather the cocking-piece and the usage of rimmed ammo.
I've tuned my bolt (and done a trigger job, but that's unrelated) to the point where it really runs smoothly, but that required fiddling with the geometry of the cocking piece and some hours of work. Not the kind of effort that you would do for a cheap mass-produced piece of crap.
The same design, if produced to the machining standards of German or Japanese stuff and perhaps allowed some more refinement and improvement of the details would not be in any way inferior to other guns. It's really the fit and finish that ruin it.
The thing is that the design itself is bad. Split-bridge receiver? The location of the bolt handle? Feed control? Single-stack magazine? The Mosin can be understood within the context of “we need to arm millions of poorly-trained peasants cheaply”, but that’s it. As for non-Russian manufacture Mosins, there was a large batch manufactured here in the US by Remington and at least one other company. They’re still bad.
Italians had the same problem, they made the Carcano, and that rifle is better then a Mosin.
We must also remember, this is an older design than many of the rifles it would end up facing, and was meant to compete with the likes of the Gew 88, 86 Lebel, and the older straight-pull Mannlichers. There is something to be said for sticking with something that you know how to make and can make a boat-load of when you have to deal with the scale of the Russian military. I'm actually pretty fond of the Mosin as a shooter and the action is pretty easy to deal with via the proper application of lubricants (specifically putting lithium grease on the cam surface that cocks the striker, does wonders for even the worst of the stiff bolts).
The penguin magazine system is undoubtedly the most radical concept I've seen in this or any other firearm. As Mark might put it, Outstanding!
Wow, I sort of feel like I just experienced the development of the Mosin in real time. Excellent, thanks for you and your crew's hard work.
Always a great day when a C&Rsenal Primer comes out!
My favorite channel.
"Obviously I don't have enough penguins for the entire rifle."
PLEASE put this on a t shirt. Preferably with a bunch of tiny penguins trying to lift a Mosin.
Seconded, we all like some Weaponised Assault Penguins
from Japan! this bolt action rifle is my favorite one! Thank you for this video!
This is the episode that convinced me to become a paetron. I've been enjoying your content for a while now and I can't remember a single ad before, during or after one of your videos. The depth and extent of research done by the team is not to be taken for granted. Yt being a private company can flick this channel without providing rhyme or reason. I love the way Othias explains how this feature is different to the ones before in a manner of a good friend telling you about his new toy. It's less like a tutorial and more like a Saturday arvo over a beer. A then we get to play with the new toy with Mae, who always has a shit eating grin after firing! The T-Gewer in particular! My only complaint is that the videos are too long to wait for but Im also excited when they drop knowing they are delivered by people who's options I respect.
We appreciate the support. Our patrons allow us to produce this shiw fkr the world
Totally agree.
@@Candrsenal Please enable Persian subtitles for all your programs
Being a Patron, I see these a week early, so I go through this process:
> "New C&Rsenal! Awesome!"
> "Oh, wait, I've already seen this one, darn."
> "Screw it, I'll watch it again anyway!"
Wait what? We release to Patreon like 10 minutes early...
You know what? I got this confused with the special over on The Great War.
I guess things all run together after a while. Whoops.
I would watch it again if I had Time .
Kudos for the "three liner". In Russia nobody knows this as Mosin, but everyone knows what a three-liner is
Not really, they call it "Vintovka Mosina". It's Nagant that they never mention 😂
The Soviets wanted a new rifle , but it had been pushed back , the tanks and planes were more urgent
When the SVT 38 was rejected by the Army , Stalin quipped " Well we are stuck with the old 3 lines for a bit longer "
then the war made any rifle a critical need
P.S the SVT slowly solved it's fault , the model 40 was way better
I must be the luckiest Mosin Nagant owner in the world: Mine was made in 1928. Wood and metal in superb condition.. My bolt and trigger work fine, even on par with my Savage Axis and TC Compass modern rifles. As far as the hand rest placement, put on three layers of wool clothing and then your thickest and warmest winter coat. Then, take the Mosin and put it up to your shoulder. I live in upper Michigan and it has snowed in May. And I have shot this rifle in very cold weather. No lock ups ever. Deadly accurate at man sized targets at 200 yards. Oh, yes. I use modern, high quality lubricant and keep it meticulously clean. That's the secret. Love your video. Love May!
Penguins!?! This show just became legendary.
Brilliant! I waited on this one until I had time to really pay attention. The work you are doing here is truly amazing. Your channel is better than anything t.v. Has to offer. I just want to say that this is finally the first milsurp rifle that Mae hasn't smiled through firing. If that doesn't endear this rifle to history then I don't know what does. Please don't stop...love your films!
I have a 1942 surplus 91/30 with all matching numbers and even bayonet. And at 100 yards I can hit 1 inch groups with open sights. I love my mosin, I thought the bolt was okay considering when it was made, but then I got my 1919 1903 Springfield and realized that...yeah...the mosin bolt leaves a lot to be desired lol. But I still love shooting it.
Some of those receivers still serve in Finnish defence forces as sniper rifles (7.62 tkiv 85)
Ah yes the 7.62x53mm. No i did not type that in wrong
I have a Finnish M1891 :)
Idiots keep trying to correct me on if Finnish 7.62x53mm exists or not, "clearly you mean 54R."
The argument always makes me laugh.
This rifle has to be seen in the context of having pretty unsophisticated soldiers subjected to horrible wintry conditions with heavy snow falls , mud etc., using it wearing whilst wearing heavy jackets, frozen fingers etc. It goes bang every time..that counts for something in minus 20 C....
As a German Mosin "fanboy" who will most likely never see one in real life: Thank you for this video! I'd love to have a carbine one *.*
Their pretty sweet. My first rifle was a Mosin. 147 USD, Feels heavy in the hand, recoil is minimal,
Finally you couldn't run forever
Real talk
M1911 fans be like, _"Guess again, dude"_
The Mosin-Nagant is really about a gun's 40-year long comeback story. It's about a rifle that suffered its first defeat against Arisaka, got decimated by Mauser, and then nearly destroyed itself in a series of existential crises. After a long recovery (but with a more totalitarian outlook), Mosin tried to drunkenly quarrel with its Finnish cousin, but got injured so badly that it gave Mauser an opportunity to annihilate Mosin. But the Russian rifle held on and despite its opponent's superiority, managed to turn the tide and conquer the German rifle's homeland. And then Mosin returned to his original adversary, Arisaka, and then defeated it in a month. (Of course, Arisaka was just recently crippled from its fight against Hanyang, Springfield, and Lee-Enfield)
I'd say that the Mauser wasn't the same as before. That Mauser lacked grace and discipline a weapon of war yes but just as easily used for other things in war that aren't shooting at soldiers
Somebody make a movie about that!
@@mmouse1886 Like any other rifle?
@@23GreyFox I was implying the Difference between the Gewehr 98 and the Kar98k, o top of that most Mauser Rifles where Hunting rifles, not purpose built military Rifles
@@mmouse1886 If you say so...
This stresses to me how lucky I was that my first centerfire was a commercial 1898 Mauser with a set trigger.
Mine was Mosin and then I bought Argentine Mauser.
Thank you for your informative video. I am a Mongolian. From the age of 16 I started to use mosin. At that time, there weren't many western rifles in Mongolia. I was so amazed to see exit wound of this bullet and its long range capabilities. Many times I have seen exit wound of 20 cms in diameter. The most amazing thing I have ever seen was my uncle used to hit animals at the range of 800-1000 meters with mosin without scope. I have also seen some hunters shoot with mosin like semi-auto rifles. They reload it unbelievable fast. I personally shoot really fast and I never seen cartridges jams. Army cartridges rapture very often, but it never jammed in the chamber. I agree that mosin too heave and long and it's bolt is hard to pull.
@24:57 best mechanic explanation i ever had
Need to revise the “nearly a century “ as they are being issued to Russian troops in the Ukraine
Finally, the moist nugget, /k/ommandos rejoice.
Josh Callejas AVE NEX ALEA
Kent Allard All glory to the Murdercube!
I'm still lurking in various threads to see if othais will grace us with his literal shitposts.
+Rikkou511 Isn't there a video of him mocking /k/ommandos "jerking off to animu" while he himelf was "fingerfucking hot guns"?
Uh... Proabbly. He does like to tease with his unlisted videos. Such as the one where he shows mae the thread about them.
My body and 55 gal drum of cosmoline is ready.
7.62 x 54 r don’t care what is in front of it, and it will win regardless what’s in front of it ya know
It’s not my favorite rifle, but it was my first, and for that it will always have a special place in my heart.
Never try to load penguins in your rear.
Everytime I see the rifles in the episode and in the background I am filled with envy.
Thanks for posting this and increasing our knowledge and appreciation of firearms history.
“I have these penguins”
So many gems in the old episodes of this series 😂
I own this gun for 2 reasons. 1 it is fun to shoot. And if you can get proficient with the crappy bolt action and a long creepy trigger pull, you will be halfway decent with any other gun. And 2, the history the same reason I own flintlocks. So I can get appreciation for what the people who went to war before me worked with.
smittie1911 shooting flintlocks well will make you a better shooter
Very true! But Flint Locks are pretty hard to shoot past 200 yards though.
smittie1911 oh yeah but why would shoot that far with one?
Oh my God I can't believe I missed this episode back when it was released. The penguins are ingenious, that was actually a great way to visualize the issue.
Mauser rifles - Revolutionary bolt system, great hunter's rifle.
Lee Enfield - Very fast very smooth action.
Mosin Nagant - A cheap rifle back in the day.
Mosin Nagant rifles are nice, the wood on them is beautiful but that's all I can really say, Mosin Nagants were famous for being cheap surplus rifles with a good cartridge back when they were imported.
A 91/30 Carbine shakes the ground your standing on and I LOVE IT!
Maybe I am not the first one to notice, but you did not say that that harmful rail may be used as a wrench to unscrew the striker pin ( the long notch at the back macthes it). I own an M38.
Only death will stop me from watching your vids, Othias. Regards, Yevgen from Ukraine.
With all due deference to Bruno the penguins were the best visual explanation of a firearm I have ever seen.
I have always regarded this as a historical gun show. Ian does a gun show. You guys have a larger ambit with the historical context so no, I don't see it as just a gun show. I've learned a lot about life and the times in the pre-1900 period and thank you. It is fascinating.
No offense, but this episode was a 10/10 before the penguins and after you brought them out it was a uhhhhh... well, numbers cannot describe such a beautiful work of art
In case I forgot to mention it, another excellent posting... very informative history lesson and very entertaining as well. Merry Christmas 2022, and Happy Yuletide to you and Mae!❄
buttloaders and penguins and garbage rods, this episode is amazing!!!
Oh so nice. My second 1+ hours video with Othais and Mae and loving it.
The algorithm thinks I need to watch this episode, obviously. It shows it to me several times a day.
I feel like I should just start commenting here every time youtube autoplays this video for me.
"shoot and miss and shoot and miss..."
“Penguins will never be a good educational tool.”
Othais: “Hold my beer”
Excellent video guys! I have been waiting on this video for several years and you guys did not disappoint! This rifle will forever hold a special place in my heart as the first centerfire rifle my dad ever bought me and was the only centerfire I trained with for all of my teen years until I could buy a rifle of my own. For those that bash the Mosin, honestly I ask you examine its history and the goals set to make the rifle what it is, but I also ask you examine what gun you personally own. Mine was a peacetime model made with love and care, slick bolt that doesn't stick, accurate out to 200 yrds blasting pop cans with iron sights on lazy Sunday afternoons, what more could you ask of a rifle without a scope and thick sights? I can understand the positively wretched war models, but my Mosin is not and will never be a "garbage rod". Again, great video guys shining the light on this oft maligned old warhorse thats still carrying the torch over 100 years later.
Dude, it really does suck at everything except at being an historical "piece" of history. It is good for what it was. A $65 rifle that used to have cheap ammo to get new and interested people into shooting. Other than those things, it really does suck. The Finnish ones are better but still not worth the current prices.
Thank you othias and mae for making excellent(even on 3rd rewatch) content
Your videos are perfect. Keep up the amazing work.
Agreed !
The first rifle I purchased as an 18 year old. An m-44 7.62 x54r from, Big 5 Sporting Goods cost $89 on sale. I would not say I have a deep low for this rifle. I would stay However, I do have a profound appreciation for that 18 year old boy at his local shooting range with a few boxes of ammo in that carbine with the side folding bayonet
The Finn M91 is my personal soft spot, though I mostly shoot a 91/30 sniper, because it's nice to be able to see the target. Some of mine have wonderful triggers, and I've shot ones that are like pulling a rubber boot out of a foot of soft mud. It does not have that bank vault smoothness of a Mauser, but there is instead some rough and simple nature that lends to a romantic sort of nostalgia. There are none today like this one; an imperfect anachronism, along with its obsolete cartridge that yet retains relevance.
This guy really knows his gun history. Thanks.
I feel like the fiddly bits almost the same upgrade to save money is just part of their military. Just look at how the AK-12 went from the 2012 prototype to the 2017 production type. The 2017 one might as well be an AK-74 with aftermarket parts tbh.
Just as I thought C&Rsenal couldn't get any better, they bring us penguins!
Every episode is better than the last , I was hooked after the first episode !
This is the best gun show history since History Channel Went Libtard and canceled all gun shows
Othais brilliantly goes on in detail to describe every feature of the mosin nagant. For me what the mosin needs is a better bolt handle, at least make it at as long a mauser bolt handle. Whether an action is smooth or not is not an important military issue. leverage is important.
Did anyone else notice the mosin nagant turned mays shirt red :)
Great lesson. Thanx. There are many tales from WWII about that rifle.
Best purchase I have ever made
I bought my mosin for 150 bucks at a store in 2009 I was 18 it’s was my first firearm and I will never let it go. That same time I bought 400 rounds of surplus 7.62x54 wasted all those tuna cans never had a hiccup. I never break it out anymore but I love that firearm
I love watching this episode. I own a 91/30 from '42 and I absolutely love it. Put a reproduction scope on it and its extremely accurate.
Always watch this episode with my Mosin out whenever possible.
I have nikkon pistol scope on mine and shoots perfect.
A scope wouldnt make the gun more accurate per se. You would need a different barrel and action. The finns knew that
@@darrengarcia4937 oh ya. Got a Finnish Mosin last year. MUCH better rifle overall.
"It's smart, doesn't mean it's good." Smekalka in a nutshell.
Yo dude love your videos!! Going to watch every single one of them!
I own around 11 of these, my favorite being A 1915 Tula barreled action M1891 in a 1916 Sestroryetsk stock (with surviving Imperial markings and SA stamp). Russia's first gun to fire their first smokeless round. My only complaint is the lack of vents for ruptured cases. Speaking of ruptured, I hope that you mention in some video the Russian issued firing pin guage. It was considered so critical by the USSR that the guages were included in most cleaning kits.-John in Texas
Hey Mosin fanboys, answer this quiz question: Which WWI bolt action design is still being manufactured on an industrial scale?
They don't care. They only got on board the Moist Nugget because of cheap ammo and rifles. No matter the stupid vertical bolt or the block of wood to open requirement.
How, exactly, is it "absurd"? It's a demonstration of the fact that the Mosin design is shit. I made that comment because I am sick of the mall ninja types who run around talking about how amazing their rifled turds are. The Mosin is an objectively bad design made worse by poor manufacturing. I actually prefer the Lee design to the Mauser as a battle rifle and as a shooter. Most of the milsurps in my collection are Lees of some flavour. But all of my hunting bolt actions have Mauser actions, because if I'm going to be touching off a .375 H&H mag, I want the strongest action I can get. However, there were Lee action sporting rifles, and tens of thousands of people still use them for hunting. Nobody ever made a sporting version of the Mosin. In fact, after being used only in Russia/Combloc countries and Finland, they got shoved into the substance that starts with a "C" for sixty years. And the design went onto the ash heap of history where is belongs. And don't forget about how popular the Winchester lever actions were with the Russians, or about the fact that the Soviets were replacing them with subguns at every opportunity on the Eastern front. It's a bad rifle, and it's time that we acknowledged that fact.
I like my Mosins better than my Mausers.
What can I say? Some people are masochistic. I'll take an SMLE or a No. 4 over any Mauser as a shooter any day, but you'd be hard pressed to get me to give up either for the garbage rod.
ARonk: My worst rifle ever was a No. 4 produced by Savage. The bolt head would jump out of the track every time the bolt was racked unless you did it reeeeeeeeeal slow. Jammed every time.
I traded it for a Finn 91, best rifle I have ever owned.
I can't unsee this - there's a depth of field effect that makes it look like there is someone behind Othias that is the person waving his arms while Othias has his below the desk.
Dear Sir, thank You for sharing Your remarkable knowledge , may You never stop doing , what You truely love. Be blessed and save.
There's actually one more function of the interrupter mechanism, however I have no idea if it was intentionally done or not. The interrupter, when the last round in the clip slips past it, can kick up to automatically eject the now empty clip. This only works if the clip is of proper dimension, and it isn't 100% reliable given that. I hope it was intentional though, because that'd be extremely clever.
I think chain detonations would be more worrysome in blackpowder than smokeless because black powder tends to be more volatile plus like you said, light primers of the age
Smokeless cartridges still usually used sensitive mercury fulminate in their primers at the time iirc
It depresses me that this great channel that has produced 74 videos of fantastic content is still under a hundred thousand subs. I guess it's down to the fortnightly release of videos. I hope one day this channel receives the recognition it is due and a wider number of people come to love it as I have.
RUclips isnt really the best for long fornat documentary
Up to almost half a mil now 🙂
Still being used now in Ukraine
thank you for they hard work
keep it up
You guys are great, very knowledgeable. Love the Primer series.
Thank you for this video! I have been trying to figure out why my Nagant has been firing once and then jamming. I have cleaned, then cleaned it again, brought it to a witch doctor to remove any curses or hexes, and cleaned it again. I found out that the one I got (was a Christmas gift) was one that was coated in that substance to prevent rust and was in a crate where as my brothers was a used one and works great right out of the gate. Your breakdown of the bolt might be the missing clue and will be ripping it down tonight! Thanks again for the video
Have you got it running right?
Good and thorough presentation of the M91.. Thank you.
Thank you too for playing the Russian-language version of Боже , Царя храни- Bozhe, Tsarya khrani! God Save The Tsar! Some us are descended from monarchists and have not forgotten....
just found this channel through IV8888, this and FW with Ian Mccollum are the best historic firearm channels!
WOW man I hate to see you have problems, wish I had some extra funds to sent your way but those days are long gone. Now I live on Social Security and VA Disability as well as a bit from Workers Comp. Together I have enough money to buy food and utilities for my house, paid for now some 20 years back. Thanks a billion for the great addition to my gun knowledge, even as a former gunsmith there a lot of things I did not know of that today I do thanks to your research and publication of facts.
"Gotta treat it like it owes you money". Ha! Good commentary Mae!
I must have lucked out, my 1943 Izzy Mosin is as smooth as butter with a bright bore and strong rifling. It is a pleasure to shoot and probably more accurate than I capable of. The trigger felt like crap, but a forward set spring helped somewhat.
You just described my Mosin! :D
Though mine was shortened in 1959 (or sometime later) into a 1891/59, and I have done some ergonomic improvements myself. A quick vid on working the bolt:
ruclips.net/video/2U3B3qtUmEw/видео.html
Dang.......that was a good watch. Excellent video
*giddy screech in Russian*
高恩太 it's spelled "ыыыыы!"
Giddy screech in Russian???
You mean like this:
"BLLLL-AH-HA-HA!" - Vitas
Бляха муха что ли?)))
I go like "Дииии"
The riffle that literally change the course of history fking Mosin-Nagant
It didn’t change anything though, did it?
Mae, why do you always have a big smile on your face shooting these old rifles?
I have an M-91 made in 1900 and I too live it...
+Another part the cocking-piece rides against during cocking is the upper left wall of the receiver.
++After that, the only thing left to blame is the 1/16" gap in the camming-surfaces between the bolt-carrier and cocking-piece.
- - - I suppose one could grind/chop/cut off the camways and make it a cock-on-closing system.
Additionally, a way to tighten the tolerances on the receiver/rail/cocking-piece interfaces, would be to build-up a weld-bead on the back outside edge of the rail, and back-bottom edge of the cocking-piece (not the bottom-front, since that'll make slipping it off from safety painfully difficult). Then grinding it back down. Since none of those parts are particularly load-bearing.
It won't "eliminate" the rail-rubberiness, but it will make a worn-down Mosin cycle like a premium quality-controlled Mosin. Because at the end of the day, it's still a Mosin.
Orrrr you can shim the back end (left side) of the rail with a layer of tape.(2 layers of masking tape wrapped around the entire left fork, in my case)
Excellent show
First firearm was a Finnish M91 with a VKT 1941 dated barrel. Heavy hitting, simply built, and overall a rifle that can get the job done.
As a Mosin collector, I thank you so much for this video. You did a great job on this one.
"No more buttloaders"
-Othais, 2018
"Homophopia rapant on RUclips"
-CNN, 2 days later
I paid $125 for a 1917 Tula made 1891 a few years ago. It is an absolute riot to shoot. With a sight radius measured in feet, it is surprisingly accurate (about 2 to 2.5 MOA until it gets hot). The weight and 31.5" barrel minimize recoil and muzzle blast to a level similar to a 30-30 Winchester. A fun, accurate, shooter and cheap ammo too. Wish I'd bought 10 of them.
55:55 ... that's me right there. Thanks Othais for making me realize why the hell my cartridges sometimes stayed in M39 magazine...
I used to have those penguins!!!! Cheers for the trip down memory lane, Othias! hahaha