I was referring to the rate of accelerating when they began Ike. Andre got the unit to 60mph before the end of the on ramp. Quite sure the chains make have been stretched.
People talk about towing these electric trucks can do. But no one talks about if they can be towed when it breaks down. Will it damage the motors? Do they have a “in tow” mode?
A Rivian employee did this months ago. He towed his Mustang GT with the truck cross country. He said in the 2700 miles, he barely got 100 miles per charge. He said it took him 2 weeks to make it to California.
Well to be fair it was 100miles cause distance between charge stations pretty much made it so he had to stop every 100mi's else he could run outta juice before the next station. Still though 300+ mile range and you lose so much ever towing a light trailer is not a good look for EV's.
@@arbiter1 No, the guy said he expected to between 150 and 200 miles per charge but he was barely getting 100 miles per charge. And he is a Rivian employee.
Charging speed is the only problem. Most ICE cars don’t get more than half their normal range when towing 8,000 lbs which puts most vehicles in the 150 to 175 mile range.
@@roboteen to be fair, a large portion of the trip was up the mountain, right? Won't range be better on less of an incline? Assuming your road trip isn't all up mountains, you'll probably get more range. Plus, how often do people do this?
Andre: "This is definitely a miscalculation" Rivian employee responsible for calculation: "It was a pleasure working with you all, I'll just go collect my things"
@@Cataclysm1 exactly. The truck is correct in that you have another 330+ miles of downhill range ;) /sarcasm off, they definitely need som sanity bounds/clamping in their algo
The fact that you have a technology in it's infancy or at most toddler stage and it's performing against a modern streamlined truck, That's rather impressive!
Infancy? Are you kidding? Ev has been on the market since 1890. I hardly consider 143 year old technology in its infancy when it's older than ice vehicles. And let's not forget how many recharge stops you have to make at 100 miles or less towing.
Can we just talk about how we are even REVIEWING an electric truck towing 4000lbs through the mountains? 15 years ago this was completely inconceivable. Amazing how far the technology has come in that time. Great video guys!
Thank you TFL for this real case scenario test. This has shown me for our usage in Colorado that an EV truck will only add anxiety not enjoyment when towing our 5k travel trailer. Have a Lightning on order and seriously rethinking just keeping one EV for around town driving and getting an ICE truck for our weekend warrior activities. Valuable information indeed!
This is exactly what we do (we are in Colorado too). We use the EV for almost all of our in-town uses. But we use the truck for all road trips and towing (obviously).
@@ZzHasbrozZ also a full tank of fuel is much more energy dense than a fully charged battery, we have a 37' Grand Design fifth wheel and my 2019 Duramax can tow it at 75mph for 300 miles. There's no way an EV can tow even a small bumper pull camper 300 miles on a full charge.
For now, once Battery tech actually catches up EV's will definitely be the way to go, that's the biggest limiting factor right now Battery tech which in tern effects range and "refuel" time, in every other way EV's are better which is kinda cool if you think about it.
The sweet spot for the time being is a plug in hybrid, or a full EV with a small engine as a range extender. Ford has a patent for a generator that goes into the bed and functions as a range extender, I'm excited to see if it makes its way into the Lightning. Most people, even with a truck, don't drive very much on a day to day basis. The occasional road trip could use a range extender, while day to day use would be perfectly fine as an EV. Obviously, people who are towing consistently on long stretches are still better off with an internal combustion engine or plug in hybrid.
@Mike graphene batteries are the real way but its super expensive. With this tech you dont need the chemicals and rare earth metals etc. They offer faster charging and higher density able to be lighter and much slimmer but hybrid batteries are only achievable right now until they refine it but google its benefits.
This truck while it may have the capability that's not really the intent. Majority of folks with trucks never do anything but drive to work and to dinner. Even Home Depot trips for mulch are rare. You do it once every few years, and it ain't 10,000 lbs. But compared to ICE it really did just fine. Towing on the Ike the F-150 Power boost Hybrid, Andre's personal truck, with the exact same trailer in the summer, got 3.8 MPG. 3.8!! And it can only be had with a 30.6 gallon tank. Running it dry, let's do the math folks, that's 116 miles of range. And it took almost two minutes longer than the Rivian, and obviously for that time couldn't maintain the speed limit.
"neat" that electric has come this far - However, proof that diesel (even Gas) for towing is still a significantly better option. I think we're at least a decade away before electric trucks become more Cost effective than diesel trucks. Could you guys do a Cost Per Mile operating expense based on date from the rivian - compared to a similar sized pickup - gas or diesel? Great content as always!
When it comes to towing with a truck, we’re more than a decade away. This video shows that we are any even close. Nobody is going to want to stop every 100 miles and spend an hour recharging. We’re going to need a completely new tech for electric to even be an option for towing
@@AveryExcavating what bothers me is the politicians whining about how we have to be 100% EV in like 10 years. They think everybody lives in big cities like they do. They don’t even consider us country folks that tow and live out in the boonies. It’s just not even an option for us
Using data from the R1T 20 to 80% charge video, the rivian equates to 0.16 $/mile A ram Ecodiesel for comparison is 0.13 $/mi and it is a less expensive vehicle.
After testing the model X and the Rivian on the Ike I think we can say that current gen batteries are not built for towing at all. Maybe this is why we don't hear anything about the Tesla semi-truck. Hopefully graphene and solid state batteries will help with the situation. Three things must improve for towing to be viable: 1) Lighter weight of the entire pack. 2) More KW charge in the same package 3) Faster charging tech at the station with less charge "dips" during the process.
I would like to add to your list. Pull through charging stations. It is likely that the battery in the Rivian was too warm after the downhill regen, which is why it throttled the charge.
We haven’t seen the tried and true manufactures been tested just yet. ford and GM are up to bat. Let’s see how they do before jumping to conclusions. Also realize that the two car brands they tested thus far cater to the people who think imagine dragons are heavy metal bands and that hauling 4 bags of mulch are are reasons to buy the Rivian and Model X
I forgot which university found a way to supercharge in 2-3 minutes, what use to take 20-60mins to charge. They upgraded the cable. It's not ready for commercial but the tech has already been created. Transferring academic completion to industrial commercial application is happening now
@@x505xMRxFLACOxLCx the cable isn't the limit...it's the batteries. The fastest charging EVs are the Lucid and Taycan. They can't max out an Electrify America 350kW charger. They peak at 300 and 270kW, respectively. But this charging speed is fast enough if the vehicle has enough battery for towing. It's enough for 200 miles in under 20 minutes. Now we just need vehicles that can do 200 miles while towing.
Excellent review guys. No one else does these types of rugged tests and I love seeing real world tough tests on vehicles. It does seem that the R1T is a great truck. Note that weight will kill ALL EV's so the lack of mileage with pulling heavy weight as you already knew is not exclusive to just the Rivian.
Yeah well I think that's the whole idea of a truck. "EV" is alright as an option for cars I suppose but why would you choose a truck configuration of you don't intend on loading it up? I use multiple trucks daily in my business and I don't want to be forced to try to use something like this to do what I do. I don't see this truck as a viable option for my idea of a truck for the foreseeable future.
Hi TFL members I think the trailer brake was breaking too harshly preventing you from regenerating so that’s probably why you only gain 2% would be good to see if you had the trailer brake turned onto its lowest setting and then check regenerative braking…
My2006 F250 with a V10 gets about 7-8 mpg when towing a similar amount of weight, but my trailer has more frontal area. My truck has nowhere near the power or torque of the Rivian, but a 30 -gallon tank of fuel will get me around 200 miles while towing and can be easily filled in 10 minutes. Gas stations are found in every small town and I can carry spare gas if go into the back country. Until battery technology gets drastically more efficient, I see these trucks as local use only or towing for short distances. Most people will love the power, quietness and smoothness, but would not like to recharge every 1.5 -2 hours for at least 45 minutes to one hour several times a day when travelling with a trailer. Not ready for heavy-duty prime-time yet.
Waiting is not fun. You can use heater or ac while charging though, it doesn't use much energy relative to the battery size so you can head/cool without worrying about impact on charging.
I think the bigger issue is that you are stopping for 45-60 minutes every hour and a half. For those that have not owned an EV, they are surprised to hear that range will drop by 10-15% by driving 70 versus 60. My results showed that 74 mph would consume 20% more power than 60 mph. Also range will drop 15-20% when the outside air temperature is 30° f vs. 60°f. So driving 60 mph when it is 60° outside, your range could be 300 miles, but driving 74 mph when it is 30° may limit range to 200 miles. These were my results in a S70D in 2019.
You guys just proved that electric trucks won't work for us here in Colorado.How can we tow our snowmobiles up to Vail or Steamboat Springs?Thank you TFL,you just saved a lot of us from making a huge and expensive mistake.
I guess only a 800 V platform with faster charging can improve the pain of towing and frequent charging but today’s batteries are not yet ready for heavy towing in the mountains.
@@Bigbillyrayfan All that matters is right now. He can’t buy a truck tomorrow that comes out in 20 years. Your point makes zero sense. If, in twenty years, a viable electric truck is available he may buy it, but thus grocery getter ain’t it! Not even close. I feel the same way. This is kind of embarrassing for a $75,000 truck. Who the hell is hanging out at a Walmart for hours during a vacation?
Nice video! I'm going to stay with my f250 for towing. To many factors for me to worry about in my towing trips in winter months that exceed 250 miles one way.
Regarding regen, you might need to much reduce the trailer brake gain, or else the trailer brakes might steal a big portion of the energy to be regained.
He said the truck wasn’t using friction brakes. Unless the trailer had a surge brake the trailer brakes didn’t hamper the test. Regen is just more hype, unless the battery was thermaled out already, which would means there is little utility (70ish miles) in this entire system.
They did say the truck brakes lights were activating during heavy regen braking. I wonder if the trailer brake controller was activating during those events as well.
@@JohnJones-ty6fj The problem is the Rivian has an internal trailer brake controller. The truck could have been sending messages to the trailer to tap the brakes possibly for maintaining control. Would be interesting to take the gain down to zero and see if there's any difference at all. You would think however though that if it was applying trailer brakes at the brake lights would it would have gone on more consistently. I was very surprised by this I've seen some other EVs do a tow charging test. With pretty significant results. I believe it was out of spec motoring or engineering explained they did a collaboration. They took a pickup truck and towed a model 3 around a racetrack at a constant speed to see how much power was regened over what distance. And I'm pretty sure for every mile they regen towed they got 2 mi of actual range back. Maybe the Rivian just doesn't have that much regen or it's not that efficient at putting the power back into the battery pack. It's interesting because the Chevrolet Bolt EV which can only DC charge at about 52 or 54 kW max. Can actually do regen up to 75 kW. If you put it in the L mode and tap the regen paddle on the back of the steering wheel you'll get 75 kW.
@@kens97sto171 I view that as part of the trucks system then, and if it requires it to operate as the manufacturer intended, then it is a viable part of the test and the results are still hold. Those would be counted as brake applications against any other platform, so the loss of regen caused by this system, if any, should be considered as a minus against the truck. I’m pretty sure getting 2 miles of regen for every mile of energy spent isn’t going to be possible, especially on a flat surface like a racetrack with little gravity to input energy back into the system. They have found perpetual energy in surplus if that is the case.
It really is amazing what they can do with electric vehicles. Besides range, I think the biggest problem is long term ownership. Some people don't like to live in permanent debt. I keep my trucks for close to 15 years. Who wants a 15 year old electric vehicle. Batteries, computers, range, everything will be so insanely outdated in a vehicle like that it will be like a 1990's cell phone.
Who wants a 15 year old ICE vehicle for that matter. Last test I saw showed a 10 year old Tesla only down to 88%. These things may end up going a lot further than we think.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 My 20yr old Tacoma still runs like a clock and will outlast this overpriced EV garbage My truck is extremely simple, easy to work on, and parts are very cheap.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 hundreds of thousands people have ICE vehicles that are 15+ years old. I have an Expedition that is going to be 19 years old and its been very reliable with nothing but oil changes and normal wear and tear items all vehicles have like tires and brakes. I plan on keeping it at least another 5+ years as there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and its very comfortable on long trips. It also tows a whole lot better than any EV on the market. It pulls our 4,500 lb boat 300+ miles on a tank.
I can totally see your points. My only objective thought is that there may be continuous updates available for these EVs. I'm writing this on a 13 year old iMac that I restored by swapping in a new hard drive and upgrading the memory in order to handle the most recent Apple operating system. I know that computers and vehicles are very different, but with so much technology packed these things, I don't see why they can't engineer them to be upgraded over time to extend the usable life of the vehicle.
I can’t remember a time when I anticipated a RUclips video I was expecting as much as this one. And… it lived up to my expectations and then some. Nice work! Some great info in this one. I’ll be re-watching to get more details.
Hey guys I just wanted to THANK YOU for this video. As every truck owner who tows and is interested in electric trucks, the range while towing is a big concern. Because of this video I canceled my order for the new Ford Lightning and will be sticking with my 2017 3.5 ecoboost F-150. As someone who tows alot long distances and frequently from Montana to Texas (1,670 miles) it just cant compete with gas/diesel engines. So thank you again y''all just saved me 75k! And alot of frustration.
I think this just confirms what we all know already. This is more of an adventure vehicle but would do well with short tows like when I put my boat in the water for the season, or pulling a 3,500 lb trailer for a moderate distance. Thanks for the entertainment! Still the best looking electric vehicle on the streets in my humble opinion!
Agree.. also considering the fact that Rivian has just started deliveries is a new fresh vehicle give it few more years just like Tesla after that they'r charging network will also spread, then the only other true rival full electric truck would soon be the ''GMC Hummer ev''.. (that is until Ford F-150 Lightning and Tesla Cybertruck will spun out).. ;0)
@@poplaurentiu4148 The government really needs to step in and standardize charging interfaces. I was hoping all the different companies would come to a consensus on their own, but they haven't. Can you imagine if gas stations only supported Chevy and not Ford, for example? That's totally something ICE companies could do if they wanted. All gas + diesel spigots are standardized for a reason, I'd love to see the same with EV. 100 years ago we didn't have gas stations everywhere. Hell we didn't even have an interstate. Everything was transported by coal burning trains, and rail wasn't around 100 years before then. We had to rely on steamboats + canals, but 100 years before that we didn't have canals and it was all horse drawn over the continent. I don't know if battery powered electric will take over all applications that ICE currently does. In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't. What I do know is the landscape of transportation will change again, battery powered electric will work for the vast majority of use cases, and the infrastructure for BEVs is only going to get better with time. We'll still have trains, we'll still have Semis, we'll still have cargo ships, and we'll still have workhorses. So long as the energy density and refill is superior in ICE, we'll still have some ICE around for certain applications.
@@jameshughes6078 It's already standardized. Everybody is using CCS nowadays. Granted it's protocol is shitty, but it's still used everywhere on every EV (even semi or buses). What are you talking about?
@@jameshughes6078 Yeah I'm in europe. But electrify America has CCS (2400 stations), pretty much all the new EV have CCS. Tesla's are CCS. What I meant was that the whole market is aiming toward CCS. It's a standard de facto. Passing it as law is unnecessary at this point.
This truck would be great for DD, in town towing, short trips to a lake with a boat, hauling bikes/boards/skis and so on. That's its purpose and it'll be great for it. Not what you want for towing your 8000 lb travel trailer cross country. Nice to see the test!
Exactly. People think If it doesn’t meet THEIR truck/towing needs than it’s useful. Obviously for many this wouldn’t work. And there are tons of gas and diesel options for those people. For many this would handle everything they need to do.
@@joshtavenner3073 But I thought everyone drives 1,000 miles per day in the mountains during winter, therefore eliminating all EVs since they can't drive more than 250 miles on a charge!n
@@TeslaManuals A standard truck can do all this just fine for half the price. This thing couldn't even complete the test all regular trucks have done. Overpriced novelty truck that offers no real world advantages at all.
I would have liked to see the dB rating as there still is tire/wind noise, etc. Certainly capable but the charging still requires inordinate planning as opposed to liquid fuel (but certainly a good effort).
They do a db rating in another video. Unlike gas or diesel, loading has negligible effect on sound. Charging time and towing range is a limiting factor for me.
Yes but the db test would need to be performed while your passenger is asking "wtf are we going to do if we run out of juice pulling this damn trailer!?!"
Always enjoy these videos. I don't think there are too many people out there buying a Rivian so they can tow 8000 lbs around, though lol. But good to know you can make it up a big hill if you absolutely HAD to. My guess is portable power packs that sit on the trailer are next.
I'm glad you guys do tests like these and are the first ones to really put an electric truck to the test, not just up a tiny hill but one of the steepest grades in the US. This is a very interesting test, and I'm honestly surprised how well it did (and how Rivian was like "yeah, yeah, yeah, you can go take it up Ike") EV technology still has a ways to go before we can really trust it towing for longer distances, but this is a great way to compare electric trucks now to electric trucks maybe 15 years later when the technology gets better.
@@catharticcathexis4527 That adds another 15-20 minutes to your 30-60 fill.... Why not make pull through charging stations, similar to gas stations? Given the infancy of the EV market, we are just stuffing these charging stations in the back corner of parking lots with no real forethought for high volume use.. Sure, the local walmart, several miles form the interstate, not so bad... charge while you shop.... but by the interstate, its going to be travelers that are just trying to get in, and out, and gone... often with trailers.
Yikes at the Ike! 81% down already! Good thing you have a plan “B” with the Ram and a nearby charging station! Tommy’s earlier review hauling logs got me really interested in this truck. Definitely a first in EV truck testing! Great review as always!
I'm very impressed with how much it can tow and how fast it can run. I love your videos. Once they are able to get the batteries to maintain a higher range, it will be a great truck for everyday people. Probably won't be a great truck for professional work and professional towing.
@@Iowagrown123 I like to stop every two or three hours to stretch the legs, take care of “business,” and get something to eat. That’s an opportunity to charge up.
Thank you for pointing out that the brake lights do light up during strong regen. I’ve seen a lot of EV reviews, and none have pointed this out on other EVs. An EV initiating a strong regen in front of other vehicle without applying the break lights can be a safety hazard. I’ve been behind a Nissan Leaf and it suddenly slowed rapidly without any break lights on. Don’t know about other EVs like teslas but it can be very surprising. I was paying attention and had no problem adjusting but It can definitely see this causing a lot of accidents with most driver not being attentive.
Great video! I make this same run several times per year in my 2017 Chevy Bolt EV. A couple of thoughts/observations: Range falls off quickly when it's cold. In my car, I lose about 15% of estimated range to heating the cabin and, more importantly, the battery, which must be maintained in the 60-70 degree range, as I recall. Also, coming from the west, the drop in altitude between the Eisenhower tunnel down to Golden is much more gradual, and the regen works better in that direction due to lower charge rate (which is why you did so much better on the way back to Boulder). I remember one time getting to the top of the Ike with 20 miles of estimated range, and gained back around 50 miles of estimated range by the time I reached Golden, but, then again, I wasn't towing anything.
On my Gen II Volt I pick up 9 miles of battery range consistently going to Florida through the Chattanooga, Tennessee area on the grades there. I just use the regen paddles and never once have I had to touch the brakes.
@@Mr.Beastforpresident Plug in electric. You can run pure EV until the battery is depleted, about 50 miles. Then run the engine which nets 40 - 45 mpg. Overall range is electric/gas slightly north of 400 miles. Or you can elect to run it like a hybrid if you want. As a Hybrid, however it is not as efficient as a Prius. Mpg's in the 40's versus in the 50's for the Prius. Having said that depending on your ability to run pure EV and charge for most trips it is much more efficient than a Prius. For example my wife's Volt has 44k miles on the clock. Her lifetime mpg over that distance is 200 mpg. My Volt has 55k miles on it, and my lifetime mileage over that distance is 123 mpg. But I have made several cross country trips with that car. I walk through a large parking lot with hundreds of cars where I work. I wouldn't trade anyone even up for any car in that lot over my Gen II Volt.
@@Mr.Beastforpresident we have the Bolt, which is the EV. After a lifetime working on ICEs, I no longer want to work on the engine/support systems of the ICE. EVs are incredibly simpler mechanically; just look at drones; don''t see many gas models anymore for the same reason. Also, the Bolt has 0-60 of just over 6 seconds, Prius just under 10, and you can feel the difference. Finally, no more trips to the gas station, and electricity to run the same number of miles is MUCH less.
Cool test. I also had very little Regen on my X when I towed a camper trailer. I think the wind resistance and rolling resistance of the trailers slow the vehicle making less Regen available
i was wondering during the video, the regen might not have been great, but the miles traveled during regen are free miles that need to be added to your total as well no? say you regen 2 miles after 10 miles descent, that means you won 12 miles of range right?
Personally, I suspect it's the heat in the battery from towing that stopped the truck from regening more power into the battery. Something weird was definitely happening to the battery during that tow test. I was kind of surprised/glad the battery didn't blow up. I'm reading about things like that happening all over the place, nothing to do with towing. Just regular EV use.
I would suggest the Cruise Control acts as an engine brake and not necessarily regenerative braking. And most definitely a trailer brake will detract from regenerative braking. If you have the juevos, run the trip without the towing function engaged.
I know that LET0001 is talking about. My Volt does the same thing I’m pretty sure. When you’re using cruise control, it isn’t ONLY using regenerative brakes when going down steep hills, it seems to also mix in a bit of friction braking to keep the handling better balanced. If you want to maximize regen braking going down hill for this test, I’d suggest leaving the cruise control out of it and just maintaining your speed with the gas pedal alone and maximum regen, and potentially turning off the trailer brake (although for safety, I’m not so sure about this one on a public highway).
This. I'd love to see how often the trailer brake is activated on the downhill, I'd say it would be the most stable braking method in that situation = hence why it would be used.
I work in the forklift industry, we adopted batteries much sooner. Regen braking will not net you the gains people expect, and range anxiety sounds like a huge headache with these Electric trucks. I'll keep my Combustion Engine.
I get huge regen going down a mountain with my Tesla. So much so that when I go skiing at Snowshoe, I only charge to 90% at the top of the mountain and it takes me about 17-20 miles to get back down to 90% after coming off the mountain.
My gas tank hit 1/4 the other day. Took like 2 minutes to fill up and get on my way. Can't imagine spending 2 hours in a Walmart parking lot like that.
I was thinking the same thing! I was thinking the same thing. Also thought it would be great to se the same exact test at the same time with the truck that was following, at the same time to find out MPG, vs cost to charge the electric.
It probably gets way more MPG. I live in the highest city in Colorado and take this drive often. They climbed like 5000 feet in 40 miles once they left Denver. It’s almost the altitude equivalent of driving from the beach to Denver. That’s a serious climb. When I go down to Denver that way it’s 80 miles and I only eat up like 1.5 gallons. When I come back my gauge drops very quickly. I’m in a 2.5 liter Mazda 3 lol. I’m impressed an EV actually towed that climb.
This was a great test thank you Gents for putting it together. This is very worrisome that the regenerative braking did not perceptibly bring the charge back?
The regenerative braking is only going to get back the energy used to get the truck up to speed, at best. All the energy used to keep the truck moving is lost keeping the truck moving.
At 60 mph wind resistance is very significant. You had 2 trucks worth of wind resistance so it's not surprising that there was not much energy left for regeneration back to the battery. It would also be interesting to see how it went doing the same trip without the trailer.
Doing the trip without the trailer is pointless. What would it prove! It can do the same thing a Honda civic can? It's a truck advertised as a tow vehicle.
Excited to see range increase as the years go on. I have 46 gallons of gas on board my 05 silverado thanks to an additional fuel cell. Even in the worst of towing conditions (wind, cold, rain, etc) I can still go 300 miles plus. Definitely need to 3-4x increase range and 3-4x decrease charge time... in time
Man you need a tune up or something. My 2005 avalanche got 600 miles easy on 32-35 gallons or whatever it was highway. I can go almost 2000 miles in my 1998 Cummins with 80 gallons.
@@seanmoore10 I tow 12k lbs in the Rocky's every summer when we go camping. Sure it's not every day but what has a bigger carbon footprint, owning multiple pickups because I need an ICE pickup for towing or just owning one pickup that can do everything?
Wonderful video! Love the videos! I expected nothing less from the electric truck. I will keep my 6.7 cummins. I saw alot of excuses for the electric truck because it was cold, but the cold doesn't bother my cummins. Keep up the good work guys!
When you can barely get to the Ike and back just to do a test I’d say electric trucks are definitely not there yet in order to be viable tow vehicles. That’s laughable amount of mileage.
Agreed. I was hoping for better, but I had a slow day yesterday towing my trailer and still pulled it 112mi. My ecoboost is only getting like 11mpg with my trailer, but I have a 36 gallon tank and can tow all day long on 1 tank.
@@enigma9789 I will give rivian a tip of the hat tho. They added a bunch of stuff to the truck that is totally new and I’d buy if it had a normal ICE. The way they added features that no other brand has definitely sets them apart. Just a little short in the practicality department. I certainly wish them success and maybe in the future with solid state batteries this will become one of the new big brands.
I feel that internal combustion is still the way to go. Just the range and lack of charging stations would make it difficult to take road trips. In addition the cost of power vs fuel is about the same based on a weekly driving amount.
ICE cars beat EVs hands down in towing and road trips. EVs win for daily commuting, running errands, and day trips if you can charge overnight at home. They are a great second car for two car families that can charge at home. If it's your only car, I'd recommend renting a vehicle for occasional road trips.
@@lanceareadbhar EVs don't even make sense as daily commuters. For the price of the cheapest EV on the market, you can buy an ICE car and still have $15,000 left for fueling.
That test kinda went the way I thought it would. I was hoping for better results but either way, thanks for showing us what it can do! I don't think an EV truck is in my future anytime soon.
It's definitely not for everyone. It seems like everyone in the comments is arguing about one being better than the other, but tbh they both have their place. For someone who tows a lot, this would be a horrible purchase. But for someone who just needs the bed and to do light towing, this might be the better option. I personally don't really do any towing, so I would likely opt for the Rivian if I were to buy a new truck. But my father in law does a lot of towing, and I can't imagine him ever buying an electric pickup
@@Slothifications I couldn't agree more. They really are for different parts of the markets. As someone who camps I was hoping it would tick those boxes better but honestly I feel like it misses the mark for the type of camping I do. For a KOA or state park camping, around town and even on the road road trips, it would be great. Deep back trails, water crossings and deep snow, I'd much rather have something else. BUT we'll see where it goes and I hope these are a hit and prove me wrong. I wanted the bollenger but they shifted to commercial trucks only with no eta when they'll get back to consumer vehicles.
Love the video/test. I worked at the Colorado Continental Divide for more that 20 years. The grade from Silverthorne to the Eisenhower Tunnel on I70 is the best test I could imagine. As a tech dude, I am watching electric cars get better and better, but at some point the physics, engineering, and ecofriendliness get outweighed by fossil fuel raw power. My weekend camper pulling tow vehicle is a Cummins diesel, but I must say the hybrids are doing better and better, respect to the sedans. Pickups, such as the Rivian are making amazing strides, keep it up. If I lived in Denver or other flatland places, a Rivian would be awesome! Keep it up Fast Lane!
look up how much water it takes to extract 1 ton of lithium and the child slaves that mine the cobalt and the birth defect epidemic in the mining areas. EV's are super Eco.... Destructive.
I have always said this. Get a 2 1-3 cylinder diesel engine to run a generator to charge the batteries and run the electric motors. Then you get good fuel economy as well as long range and power. I don't see a full EV viable until someone can pack 10x the power we have now into the same weight/size battery we have now and I don't see anything in the pipeline anytime soon. These trucks will be too nitch to own for people who actually use the truck as a truck.
Pretty much as expected, seems like towing with EVs reliability cuts their range by 2/3s. I expect being very much a lifestyle pickup most Rivians will see little towing, and if they do it would be a small RV or teardrop trailer, the latter of which I believe it might do very well with due to their low weight and aerodynamics. But as always I appreciate the scientific nature of the Ike Gauntlet, its been pitted fairly against similarly rated vehicles, and I expect there will be plenty of data on those other payloads soon enough.
More like the range is reduced by 1/2 to 1/3. This had the AT tires which should provide a range of 282 to 267 miles according to Rivian. They got a range of 146 miles towing overall.
@@jacobscheer2730 no they didn't, they charged at the bottom of the mountain before proceeding with the rest of the trip, and if you watched the video they were averaging 1%/mile before they even arrived at the mountain. They left out calculations at the end because rivian is sponsoring them...
@@motarted1735 Its not marketed as a tow vehicle at all. Besides, most americans don't use trucks for "truck things", they drive them because they think it makes them look tougher.
@@motarted1735 99.9% of pickup truck use is not towing another truck up a goddamn mountain. It does everything else better than any other truck. Buy a diesel if you want to tow. Wow. Miindblowing
I'm hoping you guys use a small enclosed trailer for the milage loop, or even a small camper. I'm really interested to see how far an EV pickup can tow between charges on a mostly flat highway speed run.
They won’t do any better. Aerodynamics are more important than trailer weight. My enclosed trailer with toys in it weighs 5,500 lbs but is much harder to pull than the load in this video. It’s like towing a sail.
@@cliffordmontana4562 I know and that's the point, I want to see how bad the range is on an EV. I'd actually love to see them tow a 16' enclosed trailer with a Rivian and a GMC Canyon just to see if a midsize v6 pickup can out tow an EV.
@@OneNationUnderGod. I’d love to see that too. I can see how one electric vehicle in the family would be useful, but I’ll still always need a gas or gas/hybrid heavy duty truck. Supposedly the Super Duty hybrid is only a year or two away.
@@dennissmith7214 Yet another reason I don’t want one. Then add in the battery degradation over time, and in 8-10 years you’ll have a truck that can tow for an hour then charge for an hour, then tow for an hour then charge for two hours. Sounds like fun! Lol. This is a grocery getter.
On top of the range issues, nobody's being done any favors if all the makers use proprietary chargers. I can go to any gas station and stick the nozzle in my tank. I don't have to look for a certain shape nozzle.
Indeed, you can blame stubbornness on why. Chademo was out first but is very limited in total c rate. So it was never going to reach the speeds needed for decently fast dcfc that would make ev road trips doable. The tesla standard came next because ccs didn't exist back in 2012. Then the automakers didn't want to work with the tesla plug. So they developed the ccs standard. Which up until 2020 couldn't even match the tesla standard per kwh. And now ccs has a different standard depending on what country you are in. So even though tesla and others now offer adapters so you can use just about any one of the various plugs. The adapters cost a decent amount each, need to be carried with you and they slow down the acceptable charging speeds plus waste even more energy. 😶
Each winter we tow our 13k 5th wheel from Nova Scotia to southern California where we spend 4 1/2 months. Watching this video lets me know that if we used electrical power to tow an RV 4,200 we'd arrive here just in time to turn around and head home, 3 months each way? no thank you
@@trx420fm1 that's true. I mean they could probably at least lower it a bit instead of being at 5. Or maybe do the same test without the trailer to see if that's what was causing the regeneration issue
@Zachary Murphy The regeneration was working as designed 2% is all you would get downhill even if you weren't towing because you can't generate very many watts going downhill from its own weight, as you can plugging it in anyone with any electronics background should understand this.
@@trx420fm1 You are wrong that you can't generate much energy going downhill. With Teslas (not towing) you can generally generate back 70% of the energy you used to go up a mountain. The Rivian was likely turning down regen if the battery pack was too hot to accept a high rate (possible since it's towing a big load up a steep mountain), or there could be a software bug that caused it to be limited (it is very new after all).
Thanks for doing this guys, you rock. Just as you guys got with the Model X, 1% per mile when towing. I love my model 3 for driving around town. But keep in my RAM for towing my travel trailer!
@@zoltrix7779 that’s my point. People are allowed to want a truck even if they don’t have any need to tow. It’s spacious and can load a bunch of stuff in the bed. A lot of people on this channel are dismissing the truck for its lack of tow distance (with 8,100lbs on the Ike gauntlet 8% grade at high altitude). The back to drawing board comment refers to the OP explaining he owns a ram for towing/hauling and a Tesla model 3 which combined is still less money than this truck.
Thanks for the real-world test! In 2010, a compact electric (Nissan Leaf) in good conditions could achieve 73 miles. In 2022, a mid-sized pickup towing 8000lb in extreme conditions can get 137 miles. Battery technology isn't there yet for all use cases, but the improvements are impressive (and still continuing). Just think of what an ICE could do if it had improved at that rate for the last 12 years!
A Leaf would 550 miles with a battery the size of the R1T's. Leaf => 24 kWh (3 miles per kWh). R1T (towing) => 180 kWh (1.3 miles per kWh). Just back of the envelope math here.
You picked the worst electric car to compare to, especially as those batteries were known for degradation. Modern electric vehicles will all perform much better. Mine included.
Really cool test. Seeing that dip around low 40's and then a ramp up is really weird. I would imagine much like Tesla, Hyundai, Kia, etc, as more data comes in they will tune charging curves, etc. As a first EV truck, I am really interested to see where things go from here.
The gm & ford ev trucks are not that different in price from the gas ones, there was a 40k lightning 'work truck' without all the fancy stuff. Rivian is trying to get people excited about buying this early "most expensive version" so that they can survive as a company.
@SciFi Author B.L. Alley you don't wanna know how much these batteries cost to replace... the tesla ones with everything said and done is just under 20 thousand dollars...
Superb video! 👍 The best part was 17:41 Rivian R1T vs. Ike: Uphill driving impression as it gives actually an experience then explaining the concept in greater details....But in my opinion we still have a long way to go with EV motor before we can trust it to tow for longer distances like crossing 100 miles! The real question is if it would work without charging...?
Very interesting test. You say "extreme test" but in reality, the test is very common for those of us that pull trailers in Colorado. Pretty sure I don't want to be caught in the middle of the southern Utah desert with a trailer in tow! Might be better to stay closer to metro areas for now! Still, pretty interesting test results and capability outside of the battery capacity.
EVs are not ready for towing and I own and love EVs. They are great for commuting and daily errands which covers 95% of normal driving behavior. ICE will be practical for the other 95% for a while.
Thank you!!! Towing within limits of a vehicle and on a public road isn't extreme that's normal for some people. Go to a closed course towing over the limit or up a stupid grade that doesn't exist in the public and then we will call it extreme l.
Rivian recently announced they have figured out how to double the range of the truck. It involves buying two trucks and towing one with the other until the battery is dead and then swapping them out. Oh, you can’t tow anything else but it doubles your range.
Try a lower gain on the trailer break controller... maybe you'll get more charge from the regenerative brakes. Of course, you'd have to do the test again :-/ This is my favorite car/truck video ever! I love that you guys did this.
I didn't even think of that, I'd bet the trailer brakes were engaging every time the brake lights turned on. That would definitely sap away some pixies
thank you so much. please do more Rivian tests! And I hope you give them feedback! We need more charging stations and then I am sold as a recreational horse short and hope to be medium range traveler
Interesting test, but I don't really think of 20s to 40s as very cold weather...Tomorrow were supposed to have a low of -26 and a high of -10 It would be interesting to see the range towing that load as 75mph interstate speeds with the cabin heat cranked up to stay warm.
@@larryspiller15 he wasn’t hitting the brakes the truck was applying them, So really doesn’t matter how much trailer break it was using because it would’ve used the brakes anyway.
@@gorillaman08zx huh? The truck was applying regen which might also cause the truck to send a braking signal to the trailer so I am saying maybe the trailer brake gain was set higher than necessary and could've been set lower to less aggressively hit the trailer brakes. I definitely could be wrong. It's just a theory
It would be possible and interesting to wire up a special pass-through harness that taps into the brake wire in order to find out if the truck ever activates the trailer brakes without the driver pressing the pedal.
This was a good test on how it does in winter! Range anxiety ouch! I wonder how it will do in summer towing? Wonder how much regen Tommy could put back pulling andrea?
Great vid, I needed to see this as I have considered swapping to an EV truck. My issue is where I go camping seasonally is all up hill till we head home days later. I just don’t see it happening with these kind of range/charge issues. I only haul about 7klbs max usually but I still don’t see how I’d make the trip… Oh and also have range to explore the trails and power my camp… The Ford power boost hybrid seems like a much better solution if you plan to haul and camp together. Or I’ll have to stick with my Ram/generator combo for a couple years till they figure out these issues.
Guys, this is first generation truck, not made at all for this task. Would be an awesome lifestyle truck or work truck or anything that does not require 5000lbs on the back. Can it do it, yes, should you buy one to drive cross county, hell no.
most definitely, or if it was working, it was not anywhere close to top performance, maybe it was actually using friction brakes and claiming to be using regen...
Yes & - i wonder the effect of being in “tow mode” + having trailer brake control available/active. Seems logical (safe) that the truck could/would only allow “so much” regen braking by the truck before it would need/want to activate the trailer brakes.
Regen is not as efficient at recharging the battery as some people think. Even when going downhill most of the excess energy is being burned through air resistance, tire rolling resistance and the wheel bearings of the trailer axles, etc. Any losses through those components is energy that's not available to put back into the battery. Trailers are especially bad about having a decent amount of drag per axle just from the tires and wheel bearings. Jack up the trailer and spin the tires by hand and you'll often see they don't spin as freely as you'd expect because they usually aren't engineered with efficiency in mind. When I drive down a hill in my EV I only gain back a fraction of the battery % that I use to climb, and that's without a trailer adding even more air, tire and wheel resistance. So only getting back 2% in this test doesn't strike me as all that unbelievable.
I believe the trailer had some braking stealing energy from the truck. Here in Europe all trailers have this, stupid idea when you are driving with an EV, but lifesaving in an ICE vehicle.
The actual Ike was not 8 minutes, it was 38 minutes, you need to include the charge time, or at least some portion of the charge time because in reality, you would have to charge to get up the Ike. Also, for the MPG loop, you need to use a trailer with a similar weight relative to how you test a 1/2 ton, not a lightened load so that you can actually complete, we value apples to apples comparisons. So if you do the MPG test with 8k lbs for 1/2 tons, than the Rivian should have the same test, not 4k because it is electric.
A loop with both a 2/3 max trailer and a lighter 1/3 max trailer would both be interesting, but for those of us considering an EV pickup, the lighter trailer is more applicable and realistic to what we'll tow. BEV pickup owners should have no expectation to use an EV for trailers over about 4,000lb because the range will be so short. But pulling our 3,000lb fishing boat 70 miles one way to the reservoir or 3,000lb aluminum enclosed 16' trailer with ATV, dirtbikes, snowmobiles etc to the trailheads 50 to 90 miles one way should be doable. I'll keep my ICE pickup for carrying our slide-in pickup camper or long distance or very remote trailer trips, but replacing our ICE crossover with a medium sized EV pickup should allow us to do a lot of our day trips in a BEV pickup. Anyone looking to tow 8,000lb trailers shouldn't be considering an EV. A towing loop pulling 8,000 lbs only shows what we already know; the range isn't there. So if they only have time to do one towing loop, most of us considering a Rivian or other BEV pickup are much more interested in a towing loop pulling a light weight trailer around 3,000lbs because that is a trailer weight that is reasonable and realistically useable for a BEV owner. 11,000lbs rating is a capacity thing, but really only good for short trips like renting a mini excavator and towing it across town. Towing a 8,000 - 10,000 camper is possible, but not reasonable with the current range limitations. Light weight trailers in the 1,500 - 4,000lb range are much more common and numerous than midweight 8,000 - 11,000 trailers. Looking forward to the TFL loop of a light weight trailer around 3,000lb since that will be the realistic target trailer weight for BEV pickup owners until there are some breakthroughs in charging speed and charging stations become extremely common which are what is needed for towing heavier trailers.
@RC18 I think that poster is talking about the upcoming towing loop that TFL is going to perform with a lighter trailer than what they used on the Ike. TFL talk about the next test in the video. I'm all for the next towing loop test to use a light trailer as that is what most BEV pickup owners are looking to tow and are realistic an 8,000+lb trailer is not reasonable expectation for use of a BEV.
Agree. Mileage loops need set towing weight and aerodynamics. I.e. - cargo trailer that weighs 4000lbs. They could have 3 standard trailer weights. Class 1, 2,3. That way it’s standardized. And they also need a longer loop to get a more accurate average. A short loop doesn’t burn enough fuel to give me confidence in the gas pump shut off
@@Upliftyourbrothers Absolutely agree on the length of the loops needing to be longer. Too many ICE mileage loops (towing or empty) are 60 to 100 miles in length. Doesn't matter if the refill is at the same pump, the sample size is too small and so a very small difference in amount of fuel pumped (Rear: Where the pump clicks off) can impact the calculated mpg when the loop only burned a few gallons of fuel. Burn through at least 10 gallons of fuel and 20 gallons being better to calculate a more accurate mpg rating for ICE. Though I do understand the review channels are limited on time and money for longer mile tests. At least with BEV, mileage loops aren't dependent on gas pump auto-shutoff consistency but instead is measured by looking at the remaining battery percentage vs miles driven.
A ICE truck wouldn't have to refill during the test. A major cost here is time wasted waiting for the battery to charge. If I am at a gas station for more than 5 minutes something is seriously wrong. Having to wait for 20-30 minutes just to make it to the next charger where I have to do it again would not work for most people.
@@ZzHasbrozZ this is something i noticed after moving from the AR/MO area to Colorado. Went from all chargers being free and common to crazy expensive and pretty scarce.
@@WhoThisGuy515 People will find a way to make money. I’m surprised electric utility companies haven’t started mass programs to install chargers and make more money. It must be government regulations. They hold the keys to power grid.
No wonder the Tesla Semi for long hauling is indefinitely delayed. BEV trucks make more sense for the Delivery sector and in urban buses, with short routes and working shifts. Here in Europe you see BEV buses in urban transportation, as transportation vans.
The Tesla Semi is a complete FLOP compared to the Rivian. But Tesla doesn't need to produce anything meaningful as long as they keep the HYPE TRAIN rolling.
@@InternetDude I even suspect many chose a Tesla over other alternatives, just due to hype. Even if a PHEV suits better their needs. All that hype about the Cybertruck design, just shows you that.
@@RogerM88 Tesla is a hype lifestyle brand. Their lack of quality and terrible customer service are turning customers off and they don't come back. But people who don't own Tesla still aspire, so mission accomplished. I used to have two Teslas, now have a RAV4 Prime (MUCH more practical) and a gas Lexus.
@@InternetDude still believe affordable PHEVs make more sense for the next couple of decades. The push for BEVs is the easiest way for Western Governments virtue signaling about Climate change without investing in infrastructure as Hydrogen production would need, and not be dependable on Oil producing countries.
It's an electric truck with lithium batteries...in the cold. Hopefully one day battery tech will be better. Right now that's the only real problem. But when they develop a battery that has 3x the energy and can be charged faster electric work trucks will no doubt be acceptable. Maybe ten more years or so.
@@TM-uv4os nearly everyone wants one… just have to get the technology there. They’re all getting close… minus the charging and power problem. Oh and nobody wants to replace a battery either for the cost of one.
@@TM-uv4os I believe most newer electrics have a system that cools and heats the battery to keep it at prime operating conditions… but that also takes a little power.
It's still fine for 99% of the use the average midsize truck sees. Don't buy an EV if you're towing all the time, just like you wouldn't buy a Ranger to tow all the time.
I did a similar test with my Cummins Diesel Ram truck. When the truck was new, I only used to get 6-8MPG on the highway towing a 8,000lb car hauler. Now that It has a custom tune and DPF and EGR delete (no emissions restrictions), I now constantly get 18-20 MPG (towing the same trailer) & 26-28 MPG empty. From this Rivian video, I calculate that it costs about $0.18/mile to drive it and my Ram costs me $0.20/mile ( and NO range anxiety). My conclusion: I'll keep my Ram, which is already paid for, and can proven to run 1M miles before needing an overhaul. No Thanks, Rivian.
The towing/load calculations for range of course come into play as well as the weather. Rivian says the $10,000 Max battery option will increase the range for both the R1T and R1S to over 400 miles; with the standard Large 135 kWh pack, it's an EPA-rated 314 miles for the R1T and an estimated 316 for the R1S. Here they started with 271 miles of range at 99 percent charge before the hook up and towing mode engaged. Also main reasons for driving range going down in cold weather are the impact on battery chemistry when parked and the drain in order to maintain battery temperature and supply cabin heat. Cold temperatures can reduce an unplugged EV’s range by about 20 percent, according to testing by the Norwegian Automobile Federation, and recharging takes longer than in warm weather. Running the cabin heater, seat heaters, defroster, and other accessories that combat the cold weather inside the car all sap range. For cold temperatures, what we have found is that 20° F and colder is when the range really drops. Just keep all this in mind. If you're going to purchase this truck at all, I suggest going all out for the biggest battery package no matter if you're doing very little towing or none at all and to combat the Winter times. Who wouldn't want more range?!?. I really enjoy all the videos, guys!!!!. Keep up the outstanding work!!!!. TFL!!!!
Who wouldn't want more range, you are asking yourself? Everyone that knows that for bigger range you need bigger battery and bigger battery cost more (and increase the weight of the truck). So if smaller battery is enough for you, then there is no need for bigger battery.
@@mirkogruden8362 Yes, obviously a bigger battery would mean longer range, Kinda common sense. Also, of course it depends on the consumer's wants and needs. The power/torque that the battery and motors put out would still be fine for the added weight of a bigger battery. I'm sure the manufacture does in fact know this. Also depends on the actual type of battery and how it's arranged on a vehicle. So, If certain people can afford and want the bigger battery, I'm sure they'll get it. Either you want to go 250-300 miles before you need a charge, or 350-400+ or so miles before a charge. Me, personally, if I could afford it, I would definitely get a slightly bigger battery to stay on the road that much longer. Yes, it does increase the overall weight of the truck, but the power and torque of the motors would compensate for that. Maybe you wouldn't get a quicker 0-60 time but it wouldn't be too far off. Also, the battery weight is not affecting the payload capacity, just the vehicles overall weight which wouldn't be that much of a difference anyway. So you can still LOAD up your truck the same no matter what battery you had.
I agree. I don't like the truck or electric vehicles anyway. Just was curious what the hype was about and tried my best to fill people in on some information about it. It don't even look that good.
The first time I've seen an ev anything lower its range when towing anything. Interesting to see for sure and will definitely make it a mission for people looking to tow toys or other things when traveling.
Oil is king for towing and long trips. EVs are practical for daily use, especially if you can charge overnight at home. No reason we can't have both sharing the roads for a while.
There are other clean fuels that are better for towing. I have a f150 that runs on natural gas. I can tow my 31’ travel trailer no problem for hundreds of miles in the mountains. And refills take 5 min. The infrastructure is also in place. Electric is great for lighter weight vehicles- semis may be a while. That’s ok. Different fuels for different needs
Not to mention oil still builds EVs through mining for materials all the way to the materials inside. Zero fossil fuels is a pipe dream decades down the road for people who understand reality
@@Upliftyourbrothers Natural gas is oil.... Only practical difference between gasoline and natural gas is price, natural gas is cheaper for now and natural gas is less energy dense.
@@lanceareadbhar I think for most people $$$ would be the reason for choosing gasoline. If you can only afford one, which is true for most people, then a gas powered car is the way to go.
I tow a 5800 lb trailer twice every 6 months for about 120-180 miles. I'm strongly considering this option. Currently, I tow with a 1500 Silverado, then I switch to my Model 3 for my bimonthly work trips. I charge the car at my trailer park, so no additional cost for my trips, :P It works out very well, but I'd rather not have both vehicles. I put 2-4k miles per year on the truck, and 9k on the Tesla. I only have to pay for about 2-3k miles on the Tesla. But I'd really like this truck!
I gained a lot more energy back from regen on that route during the summer in my VW ID.4. HOWEVER, I was going 75 mph and I've noticed that once the car is really going downhill the regen generates a lot more than if I was only going 60 mph.
135 kWh battery, 16% used driving 8 miles up the Ike, apx 21.6 kWhs used, 8 miles/21.6 kWhs converts to about 12.5 Miles Per gallon equivalent! Reference a gas/diesel around 3-4 mpg towing the same trailer, same spot, that is impressive! And the downhill, you still recouped 2.5-3 kWhs, maintaining 60 mph with wind and drag on both vehicles, that is still impressive over only 8 miles. With that energy, you could drive another 1-1.5 miles on that energy, compared to just having heat soaked brakes on a gas/diesel truck.
@@bill9716 You are completely misunderstanding the calculation. A 100kWh battery pack is close to 3-4 gallons of fuel. Also, with DC Fast Charging, 80% is pretty baseline. There will always be conversion losses (especially if the IGBT's are standard silicon, silicon carbide has lower losses). Not all of that power is going to the battery. Some of that 20% is heat generated by charging, some is the power used by the inverter, and some of it is losses within the charger itself.
As a person that tows with a truck, I find it very concerning that a company would "forget" to include a trip meter on a EV truck. Obviously this was more of a marketing perception move than a real oversight. At the end now this thing says 316 miles range with 16% battery in towing mode. The tall tales are similar to the 100 pound 10 foot long fish I caught on vacation. This sort of BS does nothing to move us away from the fears we all have of using a truck as a truck and ending up having to call a friend to pick up a generator (or get a tow). Awesome video, awesome truck, awesome technology ... but shame on Rivian for this BS. The range and mileage are what they are, get the data the customer needs on the screen and get it right.
Agree 100% politicians dont present all the info and wonder why people xont trust them. If you want buy in you gotta share things or as Abe Lincoln said about lying and stuff...it is going to back fire on you. For this reason alone i wouldn't buy a rivian because it shows they are start up company casb hungry liars similar tk the young Kmart board of director plants and a carppy ceo.
The range estimate uses recent kw/mile - they were going downhill for 40+ miles and used very little battery, and if such elevation and road conditions continued, the 330 mile estimate is not wrong. This is exactly how my FORD or Mercedes estimates range,
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
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Extremely tested the Gen Y hitch when ya tried to pull it off the Rivian using the Orange Ford.
I was referring to the rate of accelerating when they began Ike. Andre got the unit to 60mph before the end of the on ramp. Quite sure the chains make have been stretched.
People talk about towing these electric trucks can do. But no one talks about if they can be towed when it breaks down. Will it damage the motors? Do they have a “in tow” mode?
B&w hitches ftw
@@ramgabe1027 great question I wonder if they can be towed behind a motorhome and generate power
A Rivian employee did this months ago. He towed his Mustang GT with the truck cross country. He said in the 2700 miles, he barely got 100 miles per charge. He said it took him 2 weeks to make it to California.
Maybe he should have put a tow hitch on his Mustang and switch places on the trailer. It would have been a faster trip.
Well to be fair it was 100miles cause distance between charge stations pretty much made it so he had to stop every 100mi's else he could run outta juice before the next station. Still though 300+ mile range and you lose so much ever towing a light trailer is not a good look for EV's.
@@arbiter1 No, the guy said he expected to between 150 and 200 miles per charge but he was barely getting 100 miles per charge. And he is a Rivian employee.
@@guardrail2897 k Ko
@@christianc2118 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I cannot imagine towing and stopping every 100miles on a cross country road trip….omg!! Thanks gents for keeping things real.
Charging speed is the only problem. Most ICE cars don’t get more than half their normal range when towing 8,000 lbs which puts most vehicles in the 150 to 175 mile range.
@@yolo_burrito it’s all about having the right tool for the job but you are very correct.
@@yolo_burrito that's still more range than an ev though. Not to mention you can just bring gas cans, and fill up time is less than 5 minutes.
In Alaska, it’s difficult not to go at least 100 miles one way for a camping or road trip.
@@roboteen to be fair, a large portion of the trip was up the mountain, right? Won't range be better on less of an incline? Assuming your road trip isn't all up mountains, you'll probably get more range. Plus, how often do people do this?
Andre: "This is definitely a miscalculation" Rivian employee responsible for calculation: "It was a pleasure working with you all, I'll just go collect my things"
Probably the same guy that let marketing talk him into leaving out the trip meter function.
Not a miscalculation - its obviously using recent energy/mile and if you continued downhill indefinitely.....
@@Cataclysm1 I hear the road to hell is downhill and paved with good intentions...
@@Cataclysm1 exactly. The truck is correct in that you have another 330+ miles of downhill range ;)
/sarcasm off, they definitely need som sanity bounds/clamping in their algo
😂😂😂😂
The fact that you have a technology in it's infancy or at most toddler stage and it's performing against a modern streamlined truck, That's rather impressive!
electric cars....have been around for as long as ICE was around. Its not new technology.
Infancy? Are you kidding? Ev has been on the market since 1890. I hardly consider 143 year old technology in its infancy when it's older than ice vehicles. And let's not forget how many recharge stops you have to make at 100 miles or less towing.
Can we just talk about how we are even REVIEWING an electric truck towing 4000lbs through the mountains? 15 years ago this was completely inconceivable. Amazing how far the technology has come in that time. Great video guys!
That's 8100 lbs
Thank you TFL for this real case scenario test. This has shown me for our usage in Colorado that an EV truck will only add anxiety not enjoyment when towing our 5k travel trailer. Have a Lightning on order and seriously rethinking just keeping one EV for around town driving and getting an ICE truck for our weekend warrior activities. Valuable information indeed!
This is exactly what we do (we are in Colorado too). We use the EV for almost all of our in-town uses. But we use the truck for all road trips and towing (obviously).
Agreed, we will keep the Model 3 and trade in other vehicle for an ICE truck. This test has proven that EVs are not ready yet for towing.
If you watch there last towing video the ICE trucks lost 50% at towing and that was a standard hwy test. But they refill a lot faster.
@@ZzHasbrozZ also a full tank of fuel is much more energy dense than a fully charged battery, we have a 37' Grand Design fifth wheel and my 2019 Duramax can tow it at 75mph for 300 miles. There's no way an EV can tow even a small bumper pull camper 300 miles on a full charge.
Since EVs are much more efficient, they are also more affected by external elements such as weather and towing.
For normal running around, EV's are just fine. For actual work such as hauling or towing ICE trucks are still the way to go.
I agree completely. I will keep my 2021 Ram 3500 Cummins HO for all of my trailer towing duties...
For now, once Battery tech actually catches up EV's will definitely be the way to go, that's the biggest limiting factor right now Battery tech which in tern effects range and "refuel" time, in every other way EV's are better which is kinda cool if you think about it.
The sweet spot for the time being is a plug in hybrid, or a full EV with a small engine as a range extender. Ford has a patent for a generator that goes into the bed and functions as a range extender, I'm excited to see if it makes its way into the Lightning.
Most people, even with a truck, don't drive very much on a day to day basis. The occasional road trip could use a range extender, while day to day use would be perfectly fine as an EV. Obviously, people who are towing consistently on long stretches are still better off with an internal combustion engine or plug in hybrid.
@Mike graphene batteries are the real way but its super expensive. With this tech you dont need the chemicals and rare earth metals etc. They offer faster charging and higher density able to be lighter and much slimmer but hybrid batteries are only achievable right now until they refine it but google its benefits.
This truck while it may have the capability that's not really the intent. Majority of folks with trucks never do anything but drive to work and to dinner. Even Home Depot trips for mulch are rare. You do it once every few years, and it ain't 10,000 lbs. But compared to ICE it really did just fine. Towing on the Ike the F-150 Power boost Hybrid, Andre's personal truck, with the exact same trailer in the summer, got 3.8 MPG. 3.8!! And it can only be had with a 30.6 gallon tank. Running it dry, let's do the math folks, that's 116 miles of range. And it took almost two minutes longer than the Rivian, and obviously for that time couldn't maintain the speed limit.
Thank you TFLT for doing real world tests. This is the best car channel for reviews on RUclips!
"neat" that electric has come this far - However, proof that diesel (even Gas) for towing is still a significantly better option. I think we're at least a decade away before electric trucks become more Cost effective than diesel trucks. Could you guys do a Cost Per Mile operating expense based on date from the rivian - compared to a similar sized pickup - gas or diesel? Great content as always!
When it comes to towing with a truck, we’re more than a decade away. This video shows that we are any even close. Nobody is going to want to stop every 100 miles and spend an hour recharging. We’re going to need a completely new tech for electric to even be an option for towing
@@lesterparker1594 I'd agree...After I wrote that I figured 10 years was quite aggressive. haha.
I think the best thing for trucks is to either continue perfecting hybrid technology or switch them (and semi's) to hydrogen.
@@AveryExcavating what bothers me is the politicians whining about how we have to be 100% EV in like 10 years. They think everybody lives in big cities like they do. They don’t even consider us country folks that tow and live out in the boonies. It’s just not even an option for us
Using data from the R1T 20 to 80% charge video, the rivian equates to 0.16 $/mile
A ram Ecodiesel for comparison is 0.13 $/mi and it is a less expensive vehicle.
After testing the model X and the Rivian on the Ike I think we can say that current gen batteries are not built for towing at all. Maybe this is why we don't hear anything about the Tesla semi-truck.
Hopefully graphene and solid state batteries will help with the situation.
Three things must improve for towing to be viable:
1) Lighter weight of the entire pack.
2) More KW charge in the same package
3) Faster charging tech at the station with less charge "dips" during the process.
I would like to add to your list. Pull through charging stations.
It is likely that the battery in the Rivian was too warm after the downhill regen, which is why it throttled the charge.
Pull through chargers too.
We haven’t seen the tried and true manufactures been tested just yet. ford and GM are up to bat. Let’s see how they do before jumping to conclusions.
Also realize that the two car brands they tested thus far cater to the people who think imagine dragons are heavy metal bands and that hauling 4 bags of mulch are are reasons to buy the Rivian and Model X
I forgot which university found a way to supercharge in 2-3 minutes, what use to take 20-60mins to charge. They upgraded the cable. It's not ready for commercial but the tech has already been created. Transferring academic completion to industrial commercial application is happening now
@@x505xMRxFLACOxLCx the cable isn't the limit...it's the batteries. The fastest charging EVs are the Lucid and Taycan. They can't max out an Electrify America 350kW charger. They peak at 300 and 270kW, respectively. But this charging speed is fast enough if the vehicle has enough battery for towing. It's enough for 200 miles in under 20 minutes. Now we just need vehicles that can do 200 miles while towing.
Excellent review guys. No one else does these types of rugged tests and I love seeing real world tough tests on vehicles. It does seem that the R1T is a great truck. Note that weight will kill ALL EV's so the lack of mileage with pulling heavy weight as you already knew is not exclusive to just the Rivian.
Don't believe elevation does anything to a battery.
@@techs1smh13 who said anything about elevation?
Yeah well I think that's the whole idea of a truck. "EV" is alright as an option for cars I suppose but why would you choose a truck configuration of you don't intend on loading it up?
I use multiple trucks daily in my business and I don't want to be forced to try to use something like this to do what I do. I don't see this truck as a viable option for my idea of a truck for the foreseeable future.
This sounds like very stressful camping trip and probably triples travel time at the least. No thank you Rivian. 😄
@Vern Bybee excuses for crap
Hi TFL members I think the trailer brake was breaking too harshly preventing you from regenerating so that’s probably why you only gain 2% would be good to see if you had the trailer brake turned onto its lowest setting and then check regenerative braking…
Good point!
My2006 F250 with a V10 gets about 7-8 mpg when towing a similar amount of weight, but my trailer has more frontal area. My truck has nowhere near the power or torque of the Rivian, but a 30 -gallon tank of fuel will get me around 200 miles while towing and can be easily filled in 10 minutes. Gas stations are found in every small town and I can carry spare gas if go into the back country. Until battery technology gets drastically more efficient, I see these trucks as local use only or towing for short distances. Most people will love the power, quietness and smoothness, but would not like to recharge every 1.5 -2 hours for at least 45 minutes to one hour several times a day when travelling with a trailer. Not ready for heavy-duty prime-time yet.
I agree, or if someone makes chargers for a portable gas generator you can store in the bed and charge as you drive
@@MegaBronco91 Bingo!
Don’t worry, battery tech will Surpass ICE within the next 5-10 years
Not to mention the value of the 06 f250 vs the 22 rivian at $80k
@@MegaBronco91 The point is you can still choose the source of energy when you are not towing 5000lbs...
Not gonna lie. Sitting out in the freezing weather waiting over an hour or more for a charge would blow balls.
Waiting is not fun. You can use heater or ac while charging though, it doesn't use much energy relative to the battery size so you can head/cool without worrying about impact on charging.
I heard that it being cold affects EV range, take this with a grain of salt cause I might be wrong
I was thinking the same thing, or like being at that random sketchy gas station late at night and glad to get out of there in 5min or less.
I think the bigger issue is that you are stopping for 45-60 minutes every hour and a half.
For those that have not owned an EV, they are surprised to hear that range will drop by 10-15% by driving 70 versus 60. My results showed that 74 mph would consume 20% more power than 60 mph. Also range will drop 15-20% when the outside air temperature is 30° f vs. 60°f. So driving 60 mph when it is 60° outside, your range could be 300 miles, but driving 74 mph when it is 30° may limit range to 200 miles. These were my results in a S70D in 2019.
@@speterbilt Why would cold or rain affect you when you can sit in the vehicle with the HVAC on while it charges?
You guys just proved that electric trucks won't work for us here in Colorado.How can we tow our snowmobiles up to Vail or Steamboat Springs?Thank you TFL,you just saved a lot of us from making a huge and expensive mistake.
I guess only a 800 V platform with faster charging can improve the pain of towing and frequent charging but today’s batteries are not yet ready for heavy towing in the mountains.
The charger size is irrelevant if the battery thermals out from 75 miles use.
Not yet…. Such short term thinking.
@@Bigbillyrayfan Agree!
@@Bigbillyrayfan All that matters is right now. He can’t buy a truck tomorrow that comes out in 20 years. Your point makes zero sense. If, in twenty years, a viable electric truck is available he may buy it, but thus grocery getter ain’t it! Not even close. I feel the same way. This is kind of embarrassing for a $75,000 truck. Who the hell is hanging out at a Walmart for hours during a vacation?
Nice video! I'm going to stay with my f250 for towing. To many factors for me to worry about in my towing trips in winter months that exceed 250 miles one way.
Regarding regen, you might need to much reduce the trailer brake gain, or else the trailer brakes might steal a big portion of the energy to be regained.
He said the truck wasn’t using friction brakes. Unless the trailer had a surge brake the trailer brakes didn’t hamper the test. Regen is just more hype, unless the battery was thermaled out already, which would means there is little utility (70ish miles) in this entire system.
He said he wasn't touching the brake pedal on the way down, so the trailer brakes weren't engaging.
They did say the truck brakes lights were activating during heavy regen braking. I wonder if the trailer brake controller was activating during those events as well.
@@JohnJones-ty6fj
The problem is the Rivian has an internal trailer brake controller. The truck could have been sending messages to the trailer to tap the brakes possibly for maintaining control.
Would be interesting to take the gain down to zero and see if there's any difference at all.
You would think however though that if it was applying trailer brakes at the brake lights would it would have gone on more consistently.
I was very surprised by this I've seen some other EVs do a tow charging test.
With pretty significant results. I believe it was out of spec motoring or engineering explained they did a collaboration. They took a pickup truck and towed a model 3 around a racetrack at a constant speed to see how much power was regened over what distance. And I'm pretty sure for every mile they regen towed they got 2 mi of actual range back.
Maybe the Rivian just doesn't have that much regen or it's not that efficient at putting the power back into the battery pack.
It's interesting because the Chevrolet Bolt EV which can only DC charge at about 52 or 54 kW max. Can actually do regen up to 75 kW.
If you put it in the L mode and tap the regen paddle on the back of the steering wheel you'll get 75 kW.
@@kens97sto171 I view that as part of the trucks system then, and if it requires it to operate as the manufacturer intended, then it is a viable part of the test and the results are still hold. Those would be counted as brake applications against any other platform, so the loss of regen caused by this system, if any, should be considered as a minus against the truck.
I’m pretty sure getting 2 miles of regen for every mile of energy spent isn’t going to be possible, especially on a flat surface like a racetrack with little gravity to input energy back into the system. They have found perpetual energy in surplus if that is the case.
It really is amazing what they can do with electric vehicles. Besides range, I think the biggest problem is long term ownership. Some people don't like to live in permanent debt. I keep my trucks for close to 15 years. Who wants a 15 year old electric vehicle. Batteries, computers, range, everything will be so insanely outdated in a vehicle like that it will be like a 1990's cell phone.
Who wants a 15 year old ICE vehicle for that matter. Last test I saw showed a 10 year old Tesla only down to 88%. These things may end up going a lot further than we think.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 My 20yr old Tacoma still runs like a clock and will outlast this overpriced EV garbage
My truck is extremely simple, easy to work on, and parts are very cheap.
@@deahelkcunklaer2180 hundreds of thousands people have ICE vehicles that are 15+ years old. I have an Expedition that is going to be 19 years old and its been very reliable with nothing but oil changes and normal wear and tear items all vehicles have like tires and brakes. I plan on keeping it at least another 5+ years as there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and its very comfortable on long trips. It also tows a whole lot better than any EV on the market. It pulls our 4,500 lb boat 300+ miles on a tank.
Yeah like a DeLorean. Nobody wants one right?
I can totally see your points. My only objective thought is that there may be continuous updates available for these EVs. I'm writing this on a 13 year old iMac that I restored by swapping in a new hard drive and upgrading the memory in order to handle the most recent Apple operating system. I know that computers and vehicles are very different, but with so much technology packed these things, I don't see why they can't engineer them to be upgraded over time to extend the usable life of the vehicle.
I can’t remember a time when I anticipated a RUclips video I was expecting as much as this one. And… it lived up to my expectations and then some. Nice work! Some great info in this one. I’ll be re-watching to get more details.
Id be ashamed…
Hey guys I just wanted to THANK YOU for this video. As every truck owner who tows and is interested in electric trucks, the range while towing is a big concern. Because of this video I canceled my order for the new Ford Lightning and will be sticking with my 2017 3.5 ecoboost F-150. As someone who tows alot long distances and frequently from Montana to Texas (1,670 miles) it just cant compete with gas/diesel engines. So thank you again y''all just saved me 75k! And alot of frustration.
I think this just confirms what we all know already. This is more of an adventure vehicle but would do well with short tows like when I put my boat in the water for the season, or pulling a 3,500 lb trailer for a moderate distance. Thanks for the entertainment!
Still the best looking electric vehicle on the streets in my humble opinion!
Agree.. also considering the fact that Rivian has just started deliveries is a new fresh vehicle give it few more years just like Tesla after that they'r charging network will also spread, then the only other true rival full electric truck would soon be the ''GMC Hummer ev''.. (that is until Ford F-150 Lightning and Tesla Cybertruck will spun out).. ;0)
@@poplaurentiu4148 The government really needs to step in and standardize charging interfaces. I was hoping all the different companies would come to a consensus on their own, but they haven't.
Can you imagine if gas stations only supported Chevy and not Ford, for example? That's totally something ICE companies could do if they wanted. All gas + diesel spigots are standardized for a reason, I'd love to see the same with EV.
100 years ago we didn't have gas stations everywhere. Hell we didn't even have an interstate. Everything was transported by coal burning trains, and rail wasn't around 100 years before then. We had to rely on steamboats + canals, but 100 years before that we didn't have canals and it was all horse drawn over the continent.
I don't know if battery powered electric will take over all applications that ICE currently does. In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't. What I do know is the landscape of transportation will change again, battery powered electric will work for the vast majority of use cases, and the infrastructure for BEVs is only going to get better with time. We'll still have trains, we'll still have Semis, we'll still have cargo ships, and we'll still have workhorses. So long as the energy density and refill is superior in ICE, we'll still have some ICE around for certain applications.
@@jameshughes6078 It's already standardized. Everybody is using CCS nowadays.
Granted it's protocol is shitty, but it's still used everywhere on every EV (even semi or buses).
What are you talking about?
@@xmtxx Are you in Europe? The EU passed Directive 2014/94/EU which mandates CCS compatibility.
This is absolutely not the case in the states.
@@jameshughes6078 Yeah I'm in europe.
But electrify America has CCS (2400 stations), pretty much all the new EV have CCS.
Tesla's are CCS.
What I meant was that the whole market is aiming toward CCS. It's a standard de facto. Passing it as law is unnecessary at this point.
This truck would be great for DD, in town towing, short trips to a lake with a boat, hauling bikes/boards/skis and so on. That's its purpose and it'll be great for it. Not what you want for towing your 8000 lb travel trailer cross country. Nice to see the test!
Exactly. People think If it doesn’t meet THEIR truck/towing needs than it’s useful. Obviously for many this wouldn’t work. And there are tons of gas and diesel options for those people. For many this would handle everything they need to do.
You said that very well sir and described my thoughts perfectly🤙
@@joshtavenner3073 But I thought everyone drives 1,000 miles per day in the mountains during winter, therefore eliminating all EVs since they can't drive more than 250 miles on a charge!n
So would a gas truck half the price.
@@TeslaManuals A standard truck can do all this just fine for half the price. This thing couldn't even complete the test all regular trucks have done. Overpriced novelty truck that offers no real world advantages at all.
I would have liked to see the dB rating as there still is tire/wind noise, etc. Certainly capable but the charging still requires inordinate planning as opposed to liquid fuel (but certainly a good effort).
They do a db rating in another video. Unlike gas or diesel, loading has negligible effect on sound. Charging time and towing range is a limiting factor for me.
Yes but the db test would need to be performed while your passenger is asking "wtf are we going to do if we run out of juice pulling this damn trailer!?!"
Yeah I think they were too focused on Range anxiety to be concerned about the decibel rating.😉
@@jaydee5156 what was the rating?
@@outinnowhere7693 It's more fun watching the video like I did.
Always enjoy these videos. I don't think there are too many people out there buying a Rivian so they can tow 8000 lbs around, though lol. But good to know you can make it up a big hill if you absolutely HAD to. My guess is portable power packs that sit on the trailer are next.
us horse people will
@@nb4ag I haul big toys. I'll buy a Rivian once they can do that reliably.
I'm glad you guys do tests like these and are the first ones to really put an electric truck to the test, not just up a tiny hill but one of the steepest grades in the US. This is a very interesting test, and I'm honestly surprised how well it did (and how Rivian was like "yeah, yeah, yeah, you can go take it up Ike")
EV technology still has a ways to go before we can really trust it towing for longer distances, but this is a great way to compare electric trucks now to electric trucks maybe 15 years later when the technology gets better.
I agree, and when the technology gets there, I'll truly consider going EV. But for now, I'll keep my gas powered Silverado !!
The traffic block is typical. You could have 10 outlets for a space, if you block one, everyone exiting will want to exit at the blocked one
The solution is to drop the trailer in the parking lot in a visible space, then pull in to charge. Then put it back on the hitch and go off.
@@catharticcathexis4527 That adds another 15-20 minutes to your 30-60 fill.... Why not make pull through charging stations, similar to gas stations? Given the infancy of the EV market, we are just stuffing these charging stations in the back corner of parking lots with no real forethought for high volume use.. Sure, the local walmart, several miles form the interstate, not so bad... charge while you shop.... but by the interstate, its going to be travelers that are just trying to get in, and out, and gone... often with trailers.
It's like people WANT to wait longer lol
Yikes at the Ike! 81% down already! Good thing you have a plan “B” with the Ram and a nearby charging station! Tommy’s earlier review hauling logs got me really interested in this truck. Definitely a first in EV truck testing! Great review as always!
Surprised they didn’t break out the hybrid f150
I'm very impressed with how much it can tow and how fast it can run. I love your videos. Once they are able to get the batteries to maintain a higher range, it will be a great truck for everyday people. Probably won't be a great truck for professional work and professional towing.
Batteries basically can't get better unless they invent some magic new material
Probably do fine, in a local setting. Not long trips.
@@Iowagrown123 still not interested in buying one.
Ev rigs are for city folks... which is great but not gonna change the world.
@@Iowagrown123 I like to stop every two or three hours to stretch the legs, take care of “business,” and get something to eat. That’s an opportunity to charge up.
Thank you for pointing out that the brake lights do light up during strong regen. I’ve seen a lot of EV reviews, and none have pointed this out on other EVs.
An EV initiating a strong regen in front of other vehicle without applying the break lights can be a safety hazard. I’ve been behind a Nissan Leaf and it suddenly slowed rapidly without any break lights on.
Don’t know about other EVs like teslas but it can be very surprising. I was paying attention and had no problem adjusting but It can definitely see this causing a lot of accidents with most driver not being attentive.
My volt uses the brake lights.
When my Spark EV was shifted into "L", and you took your foot off the "gas", the brake lights came on.
All EVs brake lights are activated at a specific deceleration, I have no idea what you are talking about.
@Zoltrix77 All? It didn't apply to the Nissan Leaf that rapidly decelerate I'm front of me. Don't assume without facts. When was this basis knowledge?
Teslas all show brake lights continously as soon as you take your foot off the go pedal.
Great video! I make this same run several times per year in my 2017 Chevy Bolt EV. A couple of thoughts/observations: Range falls off quickly when it's cold. In my car, I lose about 15% of estimated range to heating the cabin and, more importantly, the battery, which must be maintained in the 60-70 degree range, as I recall. Also, coming from the west, the drop in altitude between the Eisenhower tunnel down to Golden is much more gradual, and the regen works better in that direction due to lower charge rate (which is why you did so much better on the way back to Boulder). I remember one time getting to the top of the Ike with 20 miles of estimated range, and gained back around 50 miles of estimated range by the time I reached Golden, but, then again, I wasn't towing anything.
On my Gen II Volt I pick up 9 miles of battery range consistently going to Florida through the Chattanooga, Tennessee area on the grades there.
I just use the regen paddles and never once have I had to touch the brakes.
Why you guys didn’t go with a Prius? Does the Volt have any advantages over the Prius?
Also how far can you both go on a full tank? Is the both the Volts just electric or Hybrid with gas engine?
@@Mr.Beastforpresident
Plug in electric. You can run pure EV until the battery is depleted, about 50 miles. Then run the engine which nets 40 - 45 mpg.
Overall range is electric/gas slightly north of 400 miles.
Or you can elect to run it like a hybrid if you want. As a Hybrid, however it is not as efficient as a Prius. Mpg's in the 40's versus in the 50's for the Prius.
Having said that depending on your ability to run pure EV and charge for most trips it is much more efficient than a Prius.
For example my wife's Volt has 44k miles on the clock. Her lifetime mpg over that distance is 200 mpg. My Volt has 55k miles on it, and my lifetime mileage over that distance is 123 mpg. But I have made several cross country trips with that car.
I walk through a large parking lot with hundreds of cars where I work.
I wouldn't trade anyone even up for any car in that lot over my Gen II Volt.
@@Mr.Beastforpresident we have the Bolt, which is the EV. After a lifetime working on ICEs, I no longer want to work on the engine/support systems of the ICE. EVs are incredibly simpler mechanically; just look at drones; don''t see many gas models anymore for the same reason. Also, the Bolt has 0-60 of just over 6 seconds, Prius just under 10, and you can feel the difference. Finally, no more trips to the gas station, and electricity to run the same number of miles is MUCH less.
Cool test. I also had very little Regen on my X when I towed a camper trailer. I think the wind resistance and rolling resistance of the trailers slow the vehicle making less Regen available
Right. If they went 35 mph, there'd be more total regen.
i was wondering during the video, the regen might not have been great, but the miles traveled during regen are free miles that need to be added to your total as well no? say you regen 2 miles after 10 miles descent, that means you won 12 miles of range right?
Personally, I suspect it's the heat in the battery from towing that stopped the truck from regening more power into the battery. Something weird was definitely happening to the battery during that tow test. I was kind of surprised/glad the battery didn't blow up. I'm reading about things like that happening all over the place, nothing to do with towing. Just regular EV use.
@@lapamful if Regen is being diverted or unavailable, the dash screen indicates that is the case and you can tell the vehicle coast farther.
@@Teslavangelist I doubt your experience is conclusive.
I appreciate so much the fact you guys do these real world unfiltered tests. God Bless your efforts to protect the little guy....
This shows me that Gas/Diesel is way better and are here to stay for a lot longer than y'all think😎
Gas ain't going anywhere anytime soon
Goverment and the industry is pushing the EV forward. In 15 years a gas/diesel station will be as rare as a EV charging station is today.
@@scottgardiner7418 maybe in america but most of the world is far far away from ev
@@scottgardiner7418 can't see this happening this fast🤷🏻♂️
@@scottgardiner7418 Keep dreaming
Can’t get more real world than that. Great job guys
I would suggest the Cruise Control acts as an engine brake and not necessarily regenerative braking. And most definitely a trailer brake will detract from regenerative braking.
If you have the juevos, run the trip without the towing function engaged.
There is no such thing as an engine brake without regen in an EV.
I know that LET0001 is talking about. My Volt does the same thing I’m pretty sure. When you’re using cruise control, it isn’t ONLY using regenerative brakes when going down steep hills, it seems to also mix in a bit of friction braking to keep the handling better balanced. If you want to maximize regen braking going down hill for this test, I’d suggest leaving the cruise control out of it and just maintaining your speed with the gas pedal alone and maximum regen, and potentially turning off the trailer brake (although for safety, I’m not so sure about this one on a public highway).
This.
I'd love to see how often the trailer brake is activated on the downhill, I'd say it would be the most stable braking method in that situation = hence why it would be used.
Thermocouple near the friction brakes would get rid of any guesses or marketing lies.
Exactly
I totally agree with you saying it should have towing mirrors. That's something I would have suggested, too. Spot on!
I work in the forklift industry, we adopted batteries much sooner. Regen braking will not net you the gains people expect, and range anxiety sounds like a huge headache with these Electric trucks. I'll keep my Combustion Engine.
I get huge regen going down a mountain with my Tesla. So much so that when I go skiing at Snowshoe, I only charge to 90% at the top of the mountain and it takes me about 17-20 miles to get back down to 90% after coming off the mountain.
My gas tank hit 1/4 the other day. Took like 2 minutes to fill up and get on my way. Can't imagine spending 2 hours in a Walmart parking lot like that.
it would be great to see the same route done with the same stops with no towing for a comparison.
I was thinking the same thing! I was thinking the same thing. Also thought it would be great to se the same exact test at the same time with the truck that was following, at the same time to find out MPG, vs cost to charge the electric.
@Yup! Most people see right through you.
@Logical Mind Most electricity is not made from coal anymore.
It probably gets way more MPG. I live in the highest city in Colorado and take this drive often. They climbed like 5000 feet in 40 miles once they left Denver. It’s almost the altitude equivalent of driving from the beach to Denver. That’s a serious climb. When I go down to Denver that way it’s 80 miles and I only eat up like 1.5 gallons. When I come back my gauge drops very quickly. I’m in a 2.5 liter Mazda 3 lol. I’m impressed an EV actually towed that climb.
@@anthonymele4847 yea, we are on the front range, know the climb well.
This was a great test thank you Gents for putting it together. This is very worrisome that the regenerative braking did not perceptibly bring the charge back?
The regenerative braking is only going to get back the energy used to get the truck up to speed, at best. All the energy used to keep the truck moving is lost keeping the truck moving.
At 60 mph wind resistance is very significant. You had 2 trucks worth of wind resistance so it's not surprising that there was not much energy left for regeneration back to the battery.
It would also be interesting to see how it went doing the same trip without the trailer.
Doing the trip without the trailer is pointless. What would it prove! It can do the same thing a Honda civic can? It's a truck advertised as a tow vehicle.
yeah i want to see the dry test too. how much battery will be eaten up.
Imagine how much weight and wind resistance the electric semis will have.
@@korndawggy1801 exactly that's why trucking companies aren't standing in line to buy them.
@@trx420fm1 Trucking companies aren't lining up to buy little consumer vehicles. They buy class 5 to class 8.
Excited to see range increase as the years go on. I have 46 gallons of gas on board my 05 silverado thanks to an additional fuel cell. Even in the worst of towing conditions (wind, cold, rain, etc) I can still go 300 miles plus. Definitely need to 3-4x increase range and 3-4x decrease charge time... in time
Man you need a tune up or something. My 2005 avalanche got 600 miles easy on 32-35 gallons or whatever it was highway. I can go almost 2000 miles in my 1998 Cummins with 80 gallons.
@@MrPland1992 300 mile range is while towing a camper that is fairly close to max tow capacity. It will do much more range than that empty!
Ev mileage is on flat ground 80 degree no AC or up hill.
@@MrPland1992 yeah I highly doubt you get anywhere near those numbers while towing.
@@MrPland1992 there's no such thing as a tune up on modern cars. they run on computers not carburetors
There isnt a trip meter because you can only go 130 miles at a time 😂
All the idiot politicians crying about how we should be 100% EV in 5 years should be forced to watch this.
@@lesterparker1594 yeah every American tows 8,100 lbs at the Ike gauntlet 😎
@@seanmoore10 I tow 12k lbs in the Rocky's every summer when we go camping. Sure it's not every day but what has a bigger carbon footprint, owning multiple pickups because I need an ICE pickup for towing or just owning one pickup that can do everything?
@@OneNationUnderGod. shush, his 9-5 job in the city is everyone’s lifestyle don’t confuse him.
@@lesterparker1594 they want us in EVs do we can't travel far. Can't fight back if you're stuck somewhere and the action is elsewhere
Wonderful video! Love the videos! I expected nothing less from the electric truck. I will keep my 6.7 cummins. I saw alot of excuses for the electric truck because it was cold, but the cold doesn't bother my cummins.
Keep up the good work guys!
My cummins works just fine .
When you can barely get to the Ike and back just to do a test I’d say electric trucks are definitely not there yet in order to be viable tow vehicles. That’s laughable amount of mileage.
Agreed. Don't get this truck if you want it for towing outside of your city. It's cool and a good first step for EV trucks.
Agreed. I was hoping for better, but I had a slow day yesterday towing my trailer and still pulled it 112mi. My ecoboost is only getting like 11mpg with my trailer, but I have a 36 gallon tank and can tow all day long on 1 tank.
@@enigma9789 I will give rivian a tip of the hat tho. They added a bunch of stuff to the truck that is totally new and I’d buy if it had a normal ICE. The way they added features that no other brand has definitely sets them apart. Just a little short in the practicality department. I certainly wish them success and maybe in the future with solid state batteries this will become one of the new big brands.
All of a sudden my 14mpg towing seems amazing 🤣
I feel that internal combustion is still the way to go. Just the range and lack of charging stations would make it difficult to take road trips. In addition the cost of power vs fuel is about the same based on a weekly driving amount.
ICE cars beat EVs hands down in towing and road trips. EVs win for daily commuting, running errands, and day trips if you can charge overnight at home. They are a great second car for two car families that can charge at home. If it's your only car, I'd recommend renting a vehicle for occasional road trips.
Who cares. Environment is doomed anyway. Flickering has started.
@@lanceareadbhar EVs don't even make sense as daily commuters. For the price of the cheapest EV on the market, you can buy an ICE car and still have $15,000 left for fueling.
I wonder how long the cost equality equation is going to remain similar?
@@lanceareadbhar So what happens when ICEs are no more and all the rentals are EV? "just rent" wont be an option once ICEs are outlawed.
That test kinda went the way I thought it would. I was hoping for better results but either way, thanks for showing us what it can do! I don't think an EV truck is in my future anytime soon.
It's definitely not for everyone. It seems like everyone in the comments is arguing about one being better than the other, but tbh they both have their place. For someone who tows a lot, this would be a horrible purchase. But for someone who just needs the bed and to do light towing, this might be the better option. I personally don't really do any towing, so I would likely opt for the Rivian if I were to buy a new truck. But my father in law does a lot of towing, and I can't imagine him ever buying an electric pickup
@@Slothifications I couldn't agree more. They really are for different parts of the markets. As someone who camps I was hoping it would tick those boxes better but honestly I feel like it misses the mark for the type of camping I do. For a KOA or state park camping, around town and even on the road road trips, it would be great. Deep back trails, water crossings and deep snow, I'd much rather have something else. BUT we'll see where it goes and I hope these are a hit and prove me wrong. I wanted the bollenger but they shifted to commercial trucks only with no eta when they'll get back to consumer vehicles.
Love the video/test. I worked at the Colorado Continental Divide for more that 20 years. The grade from Silverthorne to the Eisenhower Tunnel on I70 is the best test I could imagine. As a tech dude, I am watching electric cars get better and better, but at some point the physics, engineering, and ecofriendliness get outweighed by fossil fuel raw power. My weekend camper pulling tow vehicle is a Cummins diesel, but I must say the hybrids are doing better and better, respect to the sedans. Pickups, such as the Rivian are making amazing strides, keep it up. If I lived in Denver or other flatland places, a Rivian would be awesome! Keep it up Fast Lane!
look up how much water it takes to extract 1 ton of lithium and the child slaves that mine the cobalt and the birth defect epidemic in the mining areas. EV's are super Eco.... Destructive.
I think a diesel/hybrid will be the best option for a truck that tows. It's worked for years to move stuff just need to down size it
I have always said this. Get a 2 1-3 cylinder diesel engine to run a generator to charge the batteries and run the electric motors. Then you get good fuel economy as well as long range and power. I don't see a full EV viable until someone can pack 10x the power we have now into the same weight/size battery we have now and I don't see anything in the pipeline anytime soon. These trucks will be too nitch to own for people who actually use the truck as a truck.
I would pay any amount of money for a full size 4x4 long bed crew cab turbine hybrid.
In conclusion if you want to do truck things, outside of the Harry Homeowner trips to home depot to pick up paint, stick with a gas or diesel truck
Pretty much as expected, seems like towing with EVs reliability cuts their range by 2/3s. I expect being very much a lifestyle pickup most Rivians will see little towing, and if they do it would be a small RV or teardrop trailer, the latter of which I believe it might do very well with due to their low weight and aerodynamics. But as always I appreciate the scientific nature of the Ike Gauntlet, its been pitted fairly against similarly rated vehicles, and I expect there will be plenty of data on those other payloads soon enough.
More like the range is reduced by 1/2 to 1/3. This had the AT tires which should provide a range of 282 to 267 miles according to Rivian. They got a range of 146 miles towing overall.
Nice, a vehicle marketed to do truck things, but once you try and do truck things it becomes so impractical it's on the verge of being useless.
@@jacobscheer2730 no they didn't, they charged at the bottom of the mountain before proceeding with the rest of the trip, and if you watched the video they were averaging 1%/mile before they even arrived at the mountain. They left out calculations at the end because rivian is sponsoring them...
@@motarted1735 Its not marketed as a tow vehicle at all. Besides, most americans don't use trucks for "truck things", they drive them because they think it makes them look tougher.
@@motarted1735 99.9% of pickup truck use is not towing another truck up a goddamn mountain. It does everything else better than any other truck. Buy a diesel if you want to tow. Wow. Miindblowing
This is awesome actually seeing what these trucks can do in real life.
I'm hoping you guys use a small enclosed trailer for the milage loop, or even a small camper. I'm really interested to see how far an EV pickup can tow between charges on a mostly flat highway speed run.
They won’t do any better. Aerodynamics are more important than trailer weight. My enclosed trailer with toys in it weighs 5,500 lbs but is much harder to pull than the load in this video. It’s like towing a sail.
@@cliffordmontana4562 I know and that's the point, I want to see how bad the range is on an EV. I'd actually love to see them tow a 16' enclosed trailer with a Rivian and a GMC Canyon just to see if a midsize v6 pickup can out tow an EV.
@@OneNationUnderGod. I’d love to see that too. I can see how one electric vehicle in the family would be useful, but I’ll still always need a gas or gas/hybrid heavy duty truck. Supposedly the Super Duty hybrid is only a year or two away.
The cold really affected this test more than they think, on average you get 30% reduction in efficiency in the cold than in summer weather! 🤭
@@dennissmith7214 Yet another reason I don’t want one. Then add in the battery degradation over time, and in 8-10 years you’ll have a truck that can tow for an hour then charge for an hour, then tow for an hour then charge for two hours. Sounds like fun! Lol. This is a grocery getter.
On top of the range issues, nobody's being done any favors if all the makers use proprietary chargers. I can go to any gas station and stick the nozzle in my tank. I don't have to look for a certain shape nozzle.
Only one company uses proprietary chargers, Tesla. Everyone else uses the CCS standard.
Indeed, you can blame stubbornness on why. Chademo was out first but is very limited in total c rate. So it was never going to reach the speeds needed for decently fast dcfc that would make ev road trips doable.
The tesla standard came next because ccs didn't exist back in 2012. Then the automakers didn't want to work with the tesla plug.
So they developed the ccs standard. Which up until 2020 couldn't even match the tesla standard per kwh.
And now ccs has a different standard depending on what country you are in. So even though tesla and others now offer adapters so you can use just about any one of the various plugs. The adapters cost a decent amount each, need to be carried with you and they slow down the acceptable charging speeds plus waste even more energy. 😶
@@4literv6 Exactly. It's not Tesla's fault, the legacy OEM's just didn't want to use the Tesla plug.
Finally, it actually happened!😄 Good job guys.
Yes and while applauding realize we might be a minute before electric towing is a thing. I'll give the Rivian an E, I'll give the Ike and TFL a B+.👍
Each winter we tow our 13k 5th wheel from Nova Scotia to southern California where we spend 4 1/2 months. Watching this video lets me know that if we used electrical power to tow an RV 4,200 we'd arrive here just in time to turn around and head home, 3 months each way? no thank you
What if the trailer braking was kicking in when slowing down and cut into the regen? I’d be curious how it works with a lower trailer brake setting.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I was hoping they would think of that and redo the rest without the trailer braking
Then, the weight of the trailer would push the truck downhill at unsafe speeds that would not be a good idea.
@@trx420fm1 that's true. I mean they could probably at least lower it a bit instead of being at 5. Or maybe do the same test without the trailer to see if that's what was causing the regeneration issue
@Zachary Murphy The regeneration was working as designed 2% is all you would get downhill even if you weren't towing because you can't generate very many watts going downhill from its own weight, as you can plugging it in anyone with any electronics background should understand this.
@@trx420fm1 You are wrong that you can't generate much energy going downhill. With Teslas (not towing) you can generally generate back 70% of the energy you used to go up a mountain. The Rivian was likely turning down regen if the battery pack was too hot to accept a high rate (possible since it's towing a big load up a steep mountain), or there could be a software bug that caused it to be limited (it is very new after all).
Thanks for doing this guys, you rock. Just as you guys got with the Model X, 1% per mile when towing. I love my model 3 for driving around town. But keep in my RAM for towing my travel trailer!
Lol careful there are a lot of idiots that can’t fathom having multiple vehicles. These guys want one vehicle to satisfy all their needs 😂
@@seanmoore10 very good point! My Tesla and RAM combined cost less than this Rivian...
@@JoshLanners 😯 shocked. They may need to go back to the drawing board.
@@seanmoore10 Or perhaps their buyers won't tow perhaps?
@@zoltrix7779 that’s my point. People are allowed to want a truck even if they don’t have any need to tow. It’s spacious and can load a bunch of stuff in the bed. A lot of people on this channel are dismissing the truck for its lack of tow distance (with 8,100lbs on the Ike gauntlet 8% grade at high altitude). The back to drawing board comment refers to the OP explaining he owns a ram for towing/hauling and a Tesla model 3 which combined is still less money than this truck.
Happy to finally see how this truck truly does! You guys are the best!
Question, if you removed the trailer braking would that have increased the regen?
Thanks for the real-world test! In 2010, a compact electric (Nissan Leaf) in good conditions could achieve 73 miles. In 2022, a mid-sized pickup towing 8000lb in extreme conditions can get 137 miles. Battery technology isn't there yet for all use cases, but the improvements are impressive (and still continuing). Just think of what an ICE could do if it had improved at that rate for the last 12 years!
A Leaf would 550 miles with a battery the size of the R1T's. Leaf => 24 kWh (3 miles per kWh). R1T (towing) => 180 kWh (1.3 miles per kWh). Just back of the envelope math here.
Holly f you brave pulling 8k In something like a ranger
@@Gig-th3er internal combustion engine
@@Gig-th3er Internal combustion engine. That is, gas or diesel vehicle..
You picked the worst electric car to compare to, especially as those batteries were known for degradation. Modern electric vehicles will all perform much better. Mine included.
this test was great. it showed that evs really aren't good for towing out of town.
The current models definitely have shortcomings in this type of scenario.
Great video fellas! For the dry flat mpg loop please consider towing Andre’s boat. Id be extremely interested to see the results of that
Really cool test. Seeing that dip around low 40's and then a ramp up is really weird. I would imagine much like Tesla, Hyundai, Kia, etc, as more data comes in they will tune charging curves, etc. As a first EV truck, I am really interested to see where things go from here.
Great review. The power this thing has and the speed at towing is incredible.
Imagine having to refuel before you even get to do the test lol
"We made it." ....is the summary. $70K vehicle. The world is going fully insane.
The gm & ford ev trucks are not that different in price from the gas ones, there was a 40k lightning 'work truck' without all the fancy stuff. Rivian is trying to get people excited about buying this early "most expensive version" so that they can survive as a company.
@SciFi Author B.L. Alley and people are constantly railing about high fuel costs...and keep buying inefficient vehicles. Can't have both!
@SciFi Author B.L. Alley you don't wanna know how much these batteries cost to replace... the tesla ones with everything said and done is just under 20 thousand dollars...
Superb video! 👍 The best part was 17:41 Rivian R1T vs. Ike: Uphill driving impression as it gives actually an experience then explaining the concept in greater details....But in my opinion we still have a long way to go with EV motor before we can trust it to tow for longer distances like crossing 100 miles! The real question is if it would work without charging...?
Very interesting test. You say "extreme test" but in reality, the test is very common for those of us that pull trailers in Colorado. Pretty sure I don't want to be caught in the middle of the southern Utah desert with a trailer in tow! Might be better to stay closer to metro areas for now! Still, pretty interesting test results and capability outside of the battery capacity.
EVs are not ready for towing and I own and love EVs. They are great for commuting and daily errands which covers 95% of normal driving behavior. ICE will be practical for the other 95% for a while.
Thank you!!! Towing within limits of a vehicle and on a public road isn't extreme that's normal for some people. Go to a closed course towing over the limit or up a stupid grade that doesn't exist in the public and then we will call it extreme l.
"We made it." Summarizing a $70K vehicle. The world is going fully insane.
@@rebelcitysports1outlook747 yes it is. Especially people who would just buy it to run around in as a second vehicle
nothing extremely about this test. You can tow maybe 80 miles with 5000 pounds and this is bad...
Rivian recently announced they have figured out how to double the range of the truck. It involves buying two trucks and towing one with the other until the battery is dead and then swapping them out. Oh, you can’t tow anything else but it doubles your range.
Try a lower gain on the trailer break controller... maybe you'll get more charge from the regenerative brakes. Of course, you'd have to do the test again :-/
This is my favorite car/truck video ever! I love that you guys did this.
I didn't even think of that, I'd bet the trailer brakes were engaging every time the brake lights turned on. That would definitely sap away some pixies
thank you so much. please do more Rivian tests! And I hope you give them feedback! We need more charging stations and then I am sold as a recreational horse short and hope to be medium range traveler
Interesting test, but I don't really think of 20s to 40s as very cold weather...Tomorrow were supposed to have a low of -26 and a high of -10 It would be interesting to see the range towing that load as 75mph interstate speeds with the cabin heat cranked up to stay warm.
yeah my tesla's range went pretty far downhill when it dropped to 0-2 degrees F here. It does great in the 20-40 degree range though.
1 hour
I wonder if you had the trailer braking set too high. That could explain the low amount of regen. It might brake the trailer when ever it regens.
Shouldn’t the truck adjust to compensate for maximum charging?
@@gorillaman08zx well who knows how they set there trailer brake gain. Not enough information to know for sure.
@@larryspiller15 he wasn’t hitting the brakes the truck was applying them, So really doesn’t matter how much trailer break it was using because it would’ve used the brakes anyway.
@@gorillaman08zx huh? The truck was applying regen which might also cause the truck to send a braking signal to the trailer so I am saying maybe the trailer brake gain was set higher than necessary and could've been set lower to less aggressively hit the trailer brakes. I definitely could be wrong. It's just a theory
It would be possible and interesting to wire up a special pass-through harness that taps into the brake wire in order to find out if the truck ever activates the trailer brakes without the driver pressing the pedal.
This was a good test on how it does in winter! Range anxiety ouch! I wonder how it will do in summer towing? Wonder how much regen Tommy could put back pulling andrea?
Thanks glad it performed as expected, looking forward to more tests.
Great vid, I needed to see this as I have considered swapping to an EV truck. My issue is where I go camping seasonally is all up hill till we head home days later. I just don’t see it happening with these kind of range/charge issues. I only haul about 7klbs max usually but I still don’t see how I’d make the trip… Oh and also have range to explore the trails and power my camp… The Ford power boost hybrid seems like a much better solution if you plan to haul and camp together. Or I’ll have to stick with my Ram/generator combo for a couple years till they figure out these issues.
I wouldn't get the truck in your case, BUT if you did...you answered with your own solution. Generator to charge the truck once you are there.
Many will have the same reservations as yourself
Guys, this is first generation truck, not made at all for this task. Would be an awesome lifestyle truck or work truck or anything that does not require 5000lbs on the back. Can it do it, yes, should you buy one to drive cross county, hell no.
@@AugustBanks Totally agree
This real world test was so good! Thanks for testing battery performance in the worst possible condition!
I could think of much worse conditions. Like my ill fated deer hunting trip this past fall.
Still think Hybrid and PHEV powertrains make more sense for trucks not BEV. This test just proves that once again.
This is a gold mine of data for Rivian despite the disappointing results with its range while towing.
I’d strongly suspect Regen wasn’t working, and that 2% actually came from the batteries cooling down a bit after that massive pull up the hill.
most definitely, or if it was working, it was not anywhere close to top performance, maybe it was actually using friction brakes and claiming to be using regen...
Yes & - i wonder the effect of being in “tow mode” + having trailer brake control available/active. Seems logical (safe) that the truck could/would only allow “so much” regen braking by the truck before it would need/want to activate the trailer brakes.
Regen is not as efficient at recharging the battery as some people think. Even when going downhill most of the excess energy is being burned through air resistance, tire rolling resistance and the wheel bearings of the trailer axles, etc. Any losses through those components is energy that's not available to put back into the battery. Trailers are especially bad about having a decent amount of drag per axle just from the tires and wheel bearings. Jack up the trailer and spin the tires by hand and you'll often see they don't spin as freely as you'd expect because they usually aren't engineered with efficiency in mind.
When I drive down a hill in my EV I only gain back a fraction of the battery % that I use to climb, and that's without a trailer adding even more air, tire and wheel resistance.
So only getting back 2% in this test doesn't strike me as all that unbelievable.
I believe the trailer had some braking stealing energy from the truck. Here in Europe all trailers have this, stupid idea when you are driving with an EV, but lifesaving in an ICE vehicle.
@@Arpedk Never thought of that, I get the brake controller was activating the brakes a little when the brake lights came on automatically.
This is the exact reason I have no interest in an electric truck …constantly having to worry about range and charging time is a deal breaker.
Deal breaker for a vast number of people
The actual Ike was not 8 minutes, it was 38 minutes, you need to include the charge time, or at least some portion of the charge time because in reality, you would have to charge to get up the Ike. Also, for the MPG loop, you need to use a trailer with a similar weight relative to how you test a 1/2 ton, not a lightened load so that you can actually complete, we value apples to apples comparisons. So if you do the MPG test with 8k lbs for 1/2 tons, than the Rivian should have the same test, not 4k because it is electric.
A loop with both a 2/3 max trailer and a lighter 1/3 max trailer would both be interesting, but for those of us considering an EV pickup, the lighter trailer is more applicable and realistic to what we'll tow. BEV pickup owners should have no expectation to use an EV for trailers over about 4,000lb because the range will be so short. But pulling our 3,000lb fishing boat 70 miles one way to the reservoir or 3,000lb aluminum enclosed 16' trailer with ATV, dirtbikes, snowmobiles etc to the trailheads 50 to 90 miles one way should be doable.
I'll keep my ICE pickup for carrying our slide-in pickup camper or long distance or very remote trailer trips, but replacing our ICE crossover with a medium sized EV pickup should allow us to do a lot of our day trips in a BEV pickup. Anyone looking to tow 8,000lb trailers shouldn't be considering an EV. A towing loop pulling 8,000 lbs only shows what we already know; the range isn't there. So if they only have time to do one towing loop, most of us considering a Rivian or other BEV pickup are much more interested in a towing loop pulling a light weight trailer around 3,000lbs because that is a trailer weight that is reasonable and realistically useable for a BEV owner. 11,000lbs rating is a capacity thing, but really only good for short trips like renting a mini excavator and towing it across town. Towing a 8,000 - 10,000 camper is possible, but not reasonable with the current range limitations. Light weight trailers in the 1,500 - 4,000lb range are much more common and numerous than midweight 8,000 - 11,000 trailers.
Looking forward to the TFL loop of a light weight trailer around 3,000lb since that will be the realistic target trailer weight for BEV pickup owners until there are some breakthroughs in charging speed and charging stations become extremely common which are what is needed for towing heavier trailers.
10 mins in he says that trailer&truck combo they are towing is 8100# so where do you get off claiming they only used 4k? 🤔
@RC18 I think that poster is talking about the upcoming towing loop that TFL is going to perform with a lighter trailer than what they used on the Ike. TFL talk about the next test in the video. I'm all for the next towing loop test to use a light trailer as that is what most BEV pickup owners are looking to tow and are realistic an 8,000+lb trailer is not reasonable expectation for use of a BEV.
Agree.
Mileage loops need set towing weight and aerodynamics.
I.e. - cargo trailer that weighs 4000lbs.
They could have 3 standard trailer weights. Class 1, 2,3. That way it’s standardized. And they also need a longer loop to get a more accurate average. A short loop doesn’t burn enough fuel to give me confidence in the gas pump shut off
@@Upliftyourbrothers Absolutely agree on the length of the loops needing to be longer. Too many ICE mileage loops (towing or empty) are 60 to 100 miles in length. Doesn't matter if the refill is at the same pump, the sample size is too small and so a very small difference in amount of fuel pumped (Rear: Where the pump clicks off) can impact the calculated mpg when the loop only burned a few gallons of fuel. Burn through at least 10 gallons of fuel and 20 gallons being better to calculate a more accurate mpg rating for ICE. Though I do understand the review channels are limited on time and money for longer mile tests.
At least with BEV, mileage loops aren't dependent on gas pump auto-shutoff consistency but instead is measured by looking at the remaining battery percentage vs miles driven.
That tow hitch really had some massive flex on it when the weight of the trailer was placed on it
How much did it cost to charge it for the whole trip. How much would it cost take make the same trip in a gas powered truck ?
A ICE truck wouldn't have to refill during the test. A major cost here is time wasted waiting for the battery to charge. If I am at a gas station for more than 5 minutes something is seriously wrong. Having to wait for 20-30 minutes just to make it to the next charger where I have to do it again would not work for most people.
The public chargers they uses cost a premium over cost at home. It cost almost as much as gas per mile.
@@ZzHasbrozZ this is something i noticed after moving from the AR/MO area to Colorado. Went from all chargers being free and common to crazy expensive and pretty scarce.
@@WhoThisGuy515 People will find a way to make money. I’m surprised electric utility companies haven’t started mass programs to install chargers and make more money. It must be government regulations. They hold the keys to power grid.
No wonder the Tesla Semi for long hauling is indefinitely delayed. BEV trucks make more sense for the Delivery sector and in urban buses, with short routes and working shifts. Here in Europe you see BEV buses in urban transportation, as transportation vans.
The Tesla Semi is a complete FLOP compared to the Rivian. But Tesla doesn't need to produce anything meaningful as long as they keep the HYPE TRAIN rolling.
@@InternetDude I even suspect many chose a Tesla over other alternatives, just due to hype. Even if a PHEV suits better their needs. All that hype about the Cybertruck design, just shows you that.
@@RogerM88 Tesla is a hype lifestyle brand. Their lack of quality and terrible customer service are turning customers off and they don't come back. But people who don't own Tesla still aspire, so mission accomplished. I used to have two Teslas, now have a RAV4 Prime (MUCH more practical) and a gas Lexus.
@@InternetDude still believe affordable PHEVs make more sense for the next couple of decades. The push for BEVs is the easiest way for Western Governments virtue signaling about Climate change without investing in infrastructure as Hydrogen production would need, and not be dependable on Oil producing countries.
Wow, that’s great. An extremely expensive truck that can only tow inside the city limits.
It's an electric truck with lithium batteries...in the cold. Hopefully one day battery tech will be better. Right now that's the only real problem. But when they develop a battery that has 3x the energy and can be charged faster electric work trucks will no doubt be acceptable. Maybe ten more years or so.
@@TM-uv4os nearly everyone wants one… just have to get the technology there. They’re all getting close… minus the charging and power problem. Oh and nobody wants to replace a battery either for the cost of one.
@@TM-uv4os I believe most newer electrics have a system that cools and heats the battery to keep it at prime operating conditions… but that also takes a little power.
It's still fine for 99% of the use the average midsize truck sees. Don't buy an EV if you're towing all the time, just like you wouldn't buy a Ranger to tow all the time.
I did a similar test with my Cummins Diesel Ram truck. When the truck was new, I only used to get 6-8MPG on the highway towing a 8,000lb car hauler. Now that It has a custom tune and DPF and EGR delete (no emissions restrictions), I now constantly get 18-20 MPG (towing the same trailer) & 26-28 MPG empty. From this Rivian video, I calculate that it costs about $0.18/mile to drive it and my Ram costs me $0.20/mile ( and NO range anxiety). My conclusion: I'll keep my Ram, which is already paid for, and can proven to run 1M miles before needing an overhaul. No Thanks, Rivian.
Great test. Shows that there are still a way to go before EVs can take over segments that aren’t simple daily drivers around town.
It’ll be exciting to see the Cybertruck do this one. Lighter weight and more efficiency.
What Cybertruck, can I buy one?
It does not and will never exist
>implying the cybertruck will ever be anything more than a sticky patch in the undies of elon fanboys
The towing/load calculations for range of course come into play as well as the weather. Rivian says the $10,000 Max battery option will increase the range for both the R1T and R1S to over 400 miles; with the standard Large 135 kWh pack, it's an EPA-rated 314 miles for the R1T and an estimated 316 for the R1S. Here they started with 271 miles of range at 99 percent charge before the hook up and towing mode engaged. Also main reasons for driving range going down in cold weather are the impact on battery chemistry when parked and the drain in order to maintain battery temperature and supply cabin heat. Cold temperatures can reduce an unplugged EV’s range by about 20 percent, according to testing by the Norwegian Automobile Federation, and recharging takes longer than in warm weather. Running the cabin heater, seat heaters, defroster, and other accessories that combat the cold weather inside the car all sap range. For cold temperatures, what we have found is that 20° F and colder is when the range really drops. Just keep all this in mind. If you're going to purchase this truck at all, I suggest going all out for the biggest battery package no matter if you're doing very little towing or none at all and to combat the Winter times. Who wouldn't want more range?!?. I really enjoy all the videos, guys!!!!. Keep up the outstanding work!!!!. TFL!!!!
Gonna be at least another year for the bigger battery pack.
Who wouldn't want more range, you are asking yourself? Everyone that knows that for bigger range you need bigger battery and bigger battery cost more (and increase the weight of the truck). So if smaller battery is enough for you, then there is no need for bigger battery.
@@mirkogruden8362 Yes, obviously a bigger battery would mean longer range, Kinda common sense. Also, of course it depends on the consumer's wants and needs. The power/torque that the battery and motors put out would still be fine for the added weight of a bigger battery. I'm sure the manufacture does in fact know this. Also depends on the actual type of battery and how it's arranged on a vehicle. So, If certain people can afford and want the bigger battery, I'm sure they'll get it. Either you want to go 250-300 miles before you need a charge, or 350-400+ or so miles before a charge. Me, personally, if I could afford it, I would definitely get a slightly bigger battery to stay on the road that much longer. Yes, it does increase the overall weight of the truck, but the power and torque of the motors would compensate for that. Maybe you wouldn't get a quicker 0-60 time but it wouldn't be too far off. Also, the battery weight is not affecting the payload capacity, just the vehicles overall weight which wouldn't be that much of a difference anyway. So you can still LOAD up your truck the same no matter what battery you had.
So another 10k? You know how much diesel I can buy for that? Geez get a grip on reality
I agree. I don't like the truck or electric vehicles anyway. Just was curious what the hype was about and tried my best to fill people in on some information about it. It don't even look that good.
The first time I've seen an ev anything lower its range when towing anything. Interesting to see for sure and will definitely make it a mission for people looking to tow toys or other things when traveling.
No getting away from the range issue. Oil is king and will continue to be for quite a while longer.
Oil is king for towing and long trips. EVs are practical for daily use, especially if you can charge overnight at home. No reason we can't have both sharing the roads for a while.
There are other clean fuels that are better for towing. I have a f150 that runs on natural gas. I can tow my 31’ travel trailer no problem for hundreds of miles in the mountains. And refills take 5 min. The infrastructure is also in place. Electric is great for lighter weight vehicles- semis may be a while. That’s ok. Different fuels for different needs
Not to mention oil still builds EVs through mining for materials all the way to the materials inside. Zero fossil fuels is a pipe dream decades down the road for people who understand reality
@@Upliftyourbrothers Natural gas is oil.... Only practical difference between gasoline and natural gas is price, natural gas is cheaper for now and natural gas is less energy dense.
@@lanceareadbhar I think for most people $$$ would be the reason for choosing gasoline. If you can only afford one, which is true for most people, then a gas powered car is the way to go.
I tow a 5800 lb trailer twice every 6 months for about 120-180 miles. I'm strongly considering this option.
Currently, I tow with a 1500 Silverado, then I switch to my Model 3 for my bimonthly work trips. I charge the car at my trailer park, so no additional cost for my trips, :P It works out very well, but I'd rather not have both vehicles.
I put 2-4k miles per year on the truck, and 9k on the Tesla. I only have to pay for about 2-3k miles on the Tesla. But I'd really like this truck!
Thanks for doing these tests! Until I can tow my work trailers a 200+ miles a day, electric trucks aren't a viable solution for tradesmen.
I gained a lot more energy back from regen on that route during the summer in my VW ID.4. HOWEVER, I was going 75 mph and I've noticed that once the car is really going downhill the regen generates a lot more than if I was only going 60 mph.
135 kWh battery, 16% used driving 8 miles up the Ike, apx 21.6 kWhs used, 8 miles/21.6 kWhs converts to about 12.5 Miles Per gallon equivalent! Reference a gas/diesel around 3-4 mpg towing the same trailer, same spot, that is impressive!
And the downhill, you still recouped 2.5-3 kWhs, maintaining 60 mph with wind and drag on both vehicles, that is still impressive over only 8 miles. With that energy, you could drive another 1-1.5 miles on that energy, compared to just having heat soaked brakes on a gas/diesel truck.
@@bill9716 You are completely misunderstanding the calculation. A 100kWh battery pack is close to 3-4 gallons of fuel.
Also, with DC Fast Charging, 80% is pretty baseline. There will always be conversion losses (especially if the IGBT's are standard silicon, silicon carbide has lower losses). Not all of that power is going to the battery. Some of that 20% is heat generated by charging, some is the power used by the inverter, and some of it is losses within the charger itself.
@@bill9716 You're talking about a completely different subject in charging. The OP is talking about "fuel efficiency"
@@bill9716 ya, I just referred to efficiency up the Ike, no money cost at all.
@@bill9716 doesn't matter what I say, you'll try to find some reason to claim every one is wrong on the cost of charging an EV.
Great job guys. The more test you put the R1T into, the more i love that truck.
As a person that tows with a truck, I find it very concerning that a company would "forget" to include a trip meter on a EV truck. Obviously this was more of a marketing perception move than a real oversight. At the end now this thing says 316 miles range with 16% battery in towing mode. The tall tales are similar to the 100 pound 10 foot long fish I caught on vacation. This sort of BS does nothing to move us away from the fears we all have of using a truck as a truck and ending up having to call a friend to pick up a generator (or get a tow). Awesome video, awesome truck, awesome technology ... but shame on Rivian for this BS. The range and mileage are what they are, get the data the customer needs on the screen and get it right.
Yeah this all electric crap is so bogus.
Agree 100% politicians dont present all the info and wonder why people xont trust them. If you want buy in you gotta share things or as Abe Lincoln said about lying and stuff...it is going to back fire on you. For this reason alone i wouldn't buy a rivian because it shows they are start up company casb hungry liars similar tk the young Kmart board of director plants and a carppy ceo.
The range estimate uses recent kw/mile - they were going downhill for 40+ miles and used very little battery, and if such elevation and road conditions continued, the 330 mile estimate is not wrong. This is exactly how my FORD or Mercedes estimates range,