I was lucky enough to work on the Geneva show car - our company built the prototype HVAC system. It was an awesome project to be part of. The bodywork made from fiberglass by HiTech Automotive was a piece of art.
Great story. I've always wondered what happened to this car. Thanks for letting us know what happened to one South African dream. It was ahead of most other manufacturers. In the end two factors stood out - government involvement and electricity in SA (or lack thereof). Looking forward to the follow up.
I remember seeing the Joule driving up and down the hills around UCT (ring road) circa 2008-2010 and was so excited to see what the EV industry was producing locally. So sad that it died. After graduation, I was at a company that would have used some of the Joule IP in the Electric MyCiti bus project (2012). That became vapourware and then I left the automotive industry for Oil and Gas 😅
I used to have a Car Magazine subscription and kept an eye on the development of the Joule. I remember how excited I was by every new article I read about it. Loved this podcast because you guys discussed the behind-the-scenes and technical challenges of that car.
I worked for Optimal Energy 2011-2012 in the last years, tasked with scouting for patentable Intellectual Property and managing the IP portfolio. I remember the Born Electric trade mark issue. At the time a handful of OEMs including OE were scrambling to get the trademark rights to Born Electric, but BMW managed to get it as far as I know. Loved working for OE and still sad that it never made it to market.
What a great and informative video. Guys, let's also focus on the South African automotive market more. We still manufacture vehicles and very good ones. Please can we have more videos on the South African automotive manufacturers?
You might enjoy our classic BMW series on the history of BMW in South Africa. We are also working on covering local vehicle factories in 2024. Thanks for watching!
Awesome Podcast. Thank you ! James Hall Transport Museum in Jhb has 2 of the Joules. A 5 seater and a 6 seater. Saw them there a few years ago and looking at the Google Maps pics they are still there...
Really hope there's a take 2 of this. The technology has improved, many of the parts don't need to be built custom anymore - plenty of suppliers available. I'd really like a SA-bourne little EV that makes sense in SA. Maybe it can have some solar panels on the roof, it can charge from home solar installations that many people are getting. Maybe it can even be a part of a solar installation at home; you drive your car for the commute, charge it at home off solar or grid when available - then when loadshedding hits your car's runs your house a bit. All these concepts have been included in various vehicles abroad but it'd be great if some of our bright engineers can make it work here.
Let our hopes not be in vain, but our Lord God Almighty, the Lord God of Jacob and the holy one of Israel 🇮🇱,through our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, has given us power and authority to decree and declare this to happen, his great name, and it shall be do. So therefore in the same spirit I also do you you already hoped for it to happen, remember two is better than one.
The problem with our government is the leadersihp is too old they just cannot see past 5 years. I have a strong feeling if the gorvernment supported this project it would have changed some part of our education system and probably influenced a lot of innovative ideas in this country.
I can remember when the Joule was "on show" at The Palms in Salt River... went out of my way to go an check it out. Properly disappointed that it never made it to the "big time"
Somebody please explain this to me: What is so difficult about making a car that looks good in terms of design? Why are some cars look like the manufacturers didn't know how ugly they will look until the final product has been already mass-produced??
As they say, Timing is everything. You did not mention the Sub-Prime USA / Europe economic collapse. Lucky for Elon and Tesla, Obama sponsored Tesla to the tune of $80B or tesla would have shuts its doors in December, 2008. RUclips has talks on this state of what impacted on world economy. All this while Tesla had a very wealthy audience in the USA that wanted to be seen with the original Lotus Tesla. Building the foundation to ramp production and develop what became the Model S again a $100k car affordable for those wanting to be seen in an electric car. Those Lotus models had endless problems but tolerated by the Hollywood celebrity. As South African living in Canada, its no surprise for me that the skills from many parts of industry including Denel and the Rooivalk invested skills in tandem with Nissan Leaf. A shame government refused to get involved or get an international Venture capital investor like Tesla acquired. Joule would most definitely have failed if they tried to start with 50,000 units production. It took Tesla 11 years to get to those kinda numbers. And many of the other EV start-up are still not at those numbers. The battery should have been farmed out to Panasonic or CTAL.
Its not about the R9bn guys. Do the math. 50,000 cars a year, from a plant costing R9bn in capital to build. At R300,000 retail price on each vehicle gives R15bn revenue per year. With maybe 10% net margin, simple repayment on the plant is 6 years, and with financing costs would probably have been 8-9 years. IRR around 11-12% not great, but not bad. Then, perhaps there is potentially a larger net margin to squeeze out. In principle, Gov just didnt have the balls to do it. PBMR as well, would have been world leaders in SMR by now. But no. We need visionaries in Gov that handle the peoples money,.....the PEOPLES money.
Please review the BYD Atto 3 EV. I see no reviews from any South African publications yet - which I find surprising. I thought most would be "itching" to get there hands on it and BYD would appreciate the marketing.
Great story and a proud one even though it didn't make it to production... Come on South Africa... Local is Lekker.. now just for a few Billion to revive it.. anyone know Elon personally?😅
I used to follow up most of the news about Joule even the Facebook page, sadly the funding issue ended everything. And i see most of their tech is being copied by other electrical companies. Good episode though
Ciro, have u seen how fast fires start from a battery pack and how hot they get? Not to mention the toxic smoke? Of course, fire and smoke from both fuel and battery are bad but at least u know why or when fuel is going to burn. If u have a lithium-ion battery or lithium-whatever make sure u have a couple of smoke detectors and regularly change their batteries! ps. nice hearing from Nico, i was unaware of his Joule involvement.
The funny thing is, to me the Joule looked a bit ugly on photos or on video, but you won't believe how different it looked in reality and was actually truly beautiful. Not sure how that works! And was magnificent to drive. I worked for the company for a few years.
Is there a possibility of picking up the project? the small car market especially EV's are just emerging. Many EU cities will be banning petrol and diesel in their cities for small EV's from 2035, I Think London is aiming for 2030. There was a guy after the Pebble Bed failure who was going around the ExPat SA circles overseas who were looking for funding. As far as I know he ended up in the US somewhere but I am not sure it was just stories.
The South African government? I'll give you this one true statement: "You can't put a fuel tax on electric cars." You can draw your own, fairly obvious, conclusions.
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I loved the Joule!! 😢😢
Another legendary episode.🙌🏿 This is a beautiful story of South Africa. Thank you Ciro, Nicol and the team.
We're so glad to hear this. It's a tough story but we are honoured we got to tell it. Thank you for watching and commenting.
I followed the Joule story closely back in the day. Way ahead of other EV's at the time. It was very sad when they had to stop the development
I was lucky enough to work on the Geneva show car - our company built the prototype HVAC system. It was an awesome project to be part of. The bodywork made from fiberglass by HiTech Automotive was a piece of art.
Great story. I've always wondered what happened to this car. Thanks for letting us know what happened to one South African dream. It was ahead of most other manufacturers.
In the end two factors stood out - government involvement and electricity in SA (or lack thereof).
Looking forward to the follow up.
Wow, so proud of this guy and his team for trying
I remember seeing the Joule driving up and down the hills around UCT (ring road) circa 2008-2010 and was so excited to see what the EV industry was producing locally. So sad that it died. After graduation, I was at a company that would have used some of the Joule IP in the Electric MyCiti bus project (2012). That became vapourware and then I left the automotive industry for Oil and Gas 😅
Enjoyed listening Nicol and Ciro! 🎉 Proudly South African 🇿🇦
So sad
I didn't know about this project
South Africa is the best
Let's keep on dreaming
I used to have a Car Magazine subscription and kept an eye on the development of the Joule. I remember how excited I was by every new article I read about it. Loved this podcast because you guys discussed the behind-the-scenes and technical challenges of that car.
I worked for Optimal Energy 2011-2012 in the last years, tasked with scouting for patentable Intellectual Property and managing the IP portfolio. I remember the Born Electric trade mark issue. At the time a handful of OEMs including OE were scrambling to get the trademark rights to Born Electric, but BMW managed to get it as far as I know. Loved working for OE and still sad that it never made it to market.
THEY MADE A MISTAKE BY GOING TOWARDS PRODUCING THEIR OWN VEHICLE INSTEAD OF FITTING THE ELECTRIC DRIVE ON AN ALREADY DEVELOPED CAR.
What a great and informative video. Guys, let's also focus on the South African automotive market more. We still manufacture vehicles and very good ones. Please can we have more videos on the South African automotive manufacturers?
You might enjoy our classic BMW series on the history of BMW in South Africa. We are also working on covering local vehicle factories in 2024. Thanks for watching!
Awesome Podcast. Thank you ! James Hall Transport Museum in Jhb has 2 of the Joules. A 5 seater and a 6 seater. Saw them there a few years ago and looking at the Google Maps pics they are still there...
Wow! Thank you for the info!
I can also attest to seeing one there a few years ago. Maybe 2016.
Fascinating story, totally forgot about the "Joule"... now wouldn't that be a great ad, getting the old cars, updating and using them today?
Nice interview, Nicol! I enjoyed hearing your recollections on this. Sad that we could not finish what we started...
Really hope there's a take 2 of this. The technology has improved, many of the parts don't need to be built custom anymore - plenty of suppliers available. I'd really like a SA-bourne little EV that makes sense in SA. Maybe it can have some solar panels on the roof, it can charge from home solar installations that many people are getting. Maybe it can even be a part of a solar installation at home; you drive your car for the commute, charge it at home off solar or grid when available - then when loadshedding hits your car's runs your house a bit. All these concepts have been included in various vehicles abroad but it'd be great if some of our bright engineers can make it work here.
Let our hopes not be in vain, but our Lord God Almighty, the Lord God of Jacob and the holy one of Israel 🇮🇱,through our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, has given us power and authority to decree and declare this to happen, his great name, and it shall be do. So therefore in the same spirit I also do you you already hoped for it to happen, remember two is better than one.
Absolutely doable.
Need a Nicol and Kobus podcast episode Ciro.
The problem with our government is the leadersihp is too old they just cannot see past 5 years. I have a strong feeling if the gorvernment supported this project it would have changed some part of our education system and probably influenced a lot of innovative ideas in this country.
Wouldn't this be a great time to pick this up again?
How I wish someone with money and willing investors can revive this brand😭😭
respect.
I can remember when the Joule was "on show" at The Palms in Salt River... went out of my way to go an check it out. Properly disappointed that it never made it to the "big time"
Back when we were growing at 4% per year. Never ever gonna happen again.
Finally some closure but we need this to come back and get to market
Hi Ciro, if you want to come and have a look at a Joule, let me know.
Great podcast
Groetnis
Somebody please explain this to me: What is so difficult about making a car that looks good in terms of design?
Why are some cars look like the manufacturers didn't know how ugly they will look until the final product has been already mass-produced??
Someone designed a Tesla Cybertruck and said, this is beautiful 😂😅
@@mkapakapaful Lol this is what happens when people who should be in mental institutions qualify to become engineers.
Can't wait to knock off so I can watch this properly
I saw one zip past me years ago when I was living in Cape Town City Centre. Sad it's no more
Absolutely love it
Wow, I can’t believe it!!
Can you please do a review on the Maxus T90 ev and the EV Africa city blitz pickup
As they say, Timing is everything. You did not mention the Sub-Prime USA / Europe economic collapse. Lucky for Elon and Tesla, Obama sponsored Tesla to the tune of $80B or tesla would have shuts its doors in December, 2008. RUclips has talks on this state of what impacted on world economy. All this while Tesla had a very wealthy audience in the USA that wanted to be seen with the original Lotus Tesla. Building the foundation to ramp production and develop what became the Model S again a $100k car affordable for those wanting to be seen in an electric car. Those Lotus models had endless problems but tolerated by the Hollywood celebrity. As South African living in Canada, its no surprise for me that the skills from many parts of industry including Denel and the Rooivalk invested skills in tandem with Nissan Leaf. A shame government refused to get involved or get an international Venture capital investor like Tesla acquired. Joule would most definitely have failed if they tried to start with 50,000 units production. It took Tesla 11 years to get to those kinda numbers. And many of the other EV start-up are still not at those numbers. The battery should have been farmed out to Panasonic or CTAL.
Almost 4 weeks now without an upload
Its not about the R9bn guys. Do the math. 50,000 cars a year, from a plant costing R9bn in capital to build. At R300,000 retail price on each vehicle gives R15bn revenue per year. With maybe 10% net margin, simple repayment on the plant is 6 years, and with financing costs would probably have been 8-9 years. IRR around 11-12% not great, but not bad. Then, perhaps there is potentially a larger net margin to squeeze out. In principle, Gov just didnt have the balls to do it. PBMR as well, would have been world leaders in SMR by now. But no. We need visionaries in Gov that handle the peoples money,.....the PEOPLES money.
Please review the BYD Atto 3 EV. I see no reviews from any South African publications yet - which I find surprising. I thought most would be "itching" to get there hands on it and BYD would appreciate the marketing.
It's a Chinese EV brand, for what purpose do you expect us to speak about foreign manufacturing?
Can you bring it back now, because then 2010 comparing the prices I would bought luxury car benz bmw audi range rover
Pitty one would need a plug point with electricity supply. That's an Easter egg hunt in South Africa.
Great story and a proud one even though it didn't make it to production... Come on South Africa... Local is Lekker.. now just for a few Billion to revive it.. anyone know Elon personally?😅
You did not mention Ford Amarok or VW Ranger once...
I used to follow up most of the news about Joule even the Facebook page, sadly the funding issue ended everything. And i see most of their tech is being copied by other electrical companies. Good episode though
Ciro, have u seen how fast fires start from a battery pack and how hot they get? Not to mention the toxic smoke? Of course, fire and smoke from both fuel and battery are bad but at least u know why or when fuel is going to burn. If u have a lithium-ion battery or lithium-whatever make sure u have a couple of smoke detectors and regularly change their batteries! ps. nice hearing from Nico, i was unaware of his Joule involvement.
The stats have proven that a Tesla is 1/10 as likely to catch fire compared to an ICE vehicles.
The styling was the only part I didn't really like. But I wish it had gone further.
The funny thing is, to me the Joule looked a bit ugly on photos or on video, but you won't believe how different it looked in reality and was actually truly beautiful. Not sure how that works! And was magnificent to drive. I worked for the company for a few years.
Is there a possibility of picking up the project? the small car market especially EV's are just emerging. Many EU cities will be banning petrol and diesel in their cities for small EV's from 2035, I Think London is aiming for 2030. There was a guy after the Pebble Bed failure who was going around the ExPat SA circles overseas who were looking for funding. As far as I know he ended up in the US somewhere but I am not sure it was just stories.
It's amazing what can happen if you find a billionaire willing to light a few billion on fire.
Wish we could mention the South African government to see this and consider funding to revive this car manufacturing company
You probably vote ANC
The South African government?
I'll give you this one true statement: "You can't put a fuel tax on electric cars."
You can draw your own, fairly obvious, conclusions.
I just want to know why my comments keep on disappearing. Do you have something against me
Hi there, no your comment is public
EVs were being made towards the end of the 18th century so SA was unlikely the first with this car
It's gonna rebound
First ev? Lies, there existed evs in the 1800s.
politics stopped this
These dem's are NUTS ☢️☣️🚫🤪😵🤢
Lets see what the simulation has in store for Africa, South Africa, as far as global innovation is concerned. For now we'll claim Elon.