A deep dive into Subaru Long Rod Engines with TiC and 3MI - Ep. 21 of the Syndicate Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2021
- For Episode 21 of the Flatirons Syndicate Podcast, I had the opportunity to have a conversation with Clint from Turn in Concepts, and Micah from 3MI Racing.
The inspiration for this came a few weeks when I called Clint to see if he might have a stock length rod in stock. His response was that he couldn't remember the last time that Turn in Concepts had built an engine with a stock length rod.
If you have been looking for a built engine for your Subaru, and you are paying close attention to some of the details, you may have noticed that, especially with Turn in Concepts blocks, most of their engines are built using +2mm rods. And there are a number of other engines out there that are built using rods that are either 2mm or 4mm longer than stock.
There are a number of reasons for doing this, and by sitting down with Clint and Micah, we were able to have a great conversation about why Subaru engines can benefit from a slightly longer rod, what building a long-rod engine involves, and some other options for builds that might be a bit less known.
This is definitely pretty detail heavy but there is so much great information here I'm glad that we were able to capture this so that we could put it out for you to hear.
Thanks for listening and Stay Tuned!
A big thanks to Turn in Concepts and 3MI for sitting down and nerding out about Subaru engine's with us! 
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This is my favorite podcast you have done. I have listen to this episode multiple times and get more from it every time. Please get these guys on again!!!!!!👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😊
I will definitely try. Micah is actually working for Red Bull Powertrain now developing their 2026 F1 engine. I'll have to see if I can pull him away from that to chat Subaru's again :-)
Give this episode of High Performance Academy a listen as well if you haven't all ready:
ruclips.net/video/JWD4hIpMZVc/видео.html
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Can we have these guys on the show more often? This level of expertise is literally unreal
Believe me, I would love to. Micah now lives over seas, and Clint is a very busy guy.
We are working on it though. Stay Tuned!
Micah AND Clint? Holy moly!
Ha! Yep! This was a great conversation.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Homemade WRX. I've read so much great info over the years. And Turnin. How is it flatiron only has just over 10k subs.
Thanks for the show.
Thanks for watching! Be sure to pass it on to help the channel grow :-)
Stay Tuned!
This is such an awesome display of pure knowledge
Thanks for the comment Kellen!
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned, there is a lot more in store :-)
Omg loved this. So much info I needed and reassured for my current build. Thx so much y'all 🥸
Absolutely! Very glad that it helped.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for sharing! We are putting together our first +2mm rod engine pretty soon and we’ll post it on our channel when we do. Theoretically it makes sense. We’re excited to hear more from part two of this video!
Awesome video! Lots of great info for someone like me, who is that “typical Subie owner” -who wasn’t thinking about a spare motor until it was too late. Thanks for such a great discussion!
Thanks very much for the comment. Stay Tuned!
All of the detailed information I needed to start a parts list for my next engine build, thanks
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks guys! It was pleasure to listen to and very informative. Looking forward to a detailed discussion on cams!
Thanks for watching, and thanks for the comment.
Stay Tuned!
Awesome! Coupla legit OG’s on your podcast. Dom was all that was missing. +2 rods are the only way to go.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I'm right here!! Lol
Awesome show guys👌, thanks for the information. Keep it up 👍
Absolutely!
If you haven't seen it yet, check out the Episode we did a couple of weeks ago with Dave from Rallispec as well:
ruclips.net/video/aavZnS3OnDY/видео.html
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I sometimes wish my EJ breaks so I can put a TiC 2+2 short block in it 😁. Great conversation guys. Thx
Why wait? The best time to put in a new engine is when your car hasn't had a failure so you can plan out the install and take your time :-)
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning its the $$$$
I remember talking about this subject back in 2008 on a thread by Turbo_Mike. Man that seems like so long ago. Great video and good info as always guys. Micah is a very smart guy, very smart.
Awesome. Thanks Keith, and glad you liked this episode!
Big Props to TIC, currently they're preparing a track 2+2 closed deck for my 15 STi, cant wait to see the outcome!🕣🕙🕤
Very cool! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I just randomly looked this up and y'all's video came up wow
That is awesome! Thanks for watching the video and Stay Tuned!
Both our shops were so close to each other but I wish we would have linked up because I was doing very similar engine development back in 03 04 05 timeframe coming from motorcycle engine dev background pistons speed is the name of the game I was also playing around with lightning up the crankshafts also but had minimal benefit imo
I've got that same book sitting in my room, it's a pretty interesting read honestly
Totally agree. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Would love to see a second podcast with same folks, loved to have heard which of the 75mm destroyed ej25 with either +2mm or +4mm which had better results
Thanks for the comment! It would definitely be good to get them on again. Spoilers, but keep an eye out for a new episode with Micah which should be out here in the next few weeks :-) Had another really great conversation with him.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Would have liked to hear a little on 79mm, +2 in 22t block. An a separate vid on head and cam decision would be awesome. Thanks again for a great vid.
What would you like to know? Again, you can simply view it as a smaller bore EJ25. COTS Piston selection is way down in comparison to EJ20 and EJ25, so custom pistons would no doubt be the option to take, especially with the 132.5mm rod length.
So crank 79mm then? Thrust conversion worth it? Rods 132.5 Then custom pistons. Heads are d25s. I guess pistons would be more my concern. But engine builder would need in on that. Compression 8.5 to 8.8 maybe?
Then head gasket? 22e gasket? Or?
@@__MAT__ so 79mm crank would put you around a 2.35, the 132.5 is again, just refinement for the given stroke, and being you'd probably need a custom piston anyway, given the D25 heads, it's essentially a freebie.
As for headgasket, I'm not too familiar with the OEM 22E headgasket. You could use the OEM EJ255/7 headgasket as well but keep in mind it will sit pretty far off of the bore and needs to be taken into your compression ratio calculations.
@@Micah_Makes thanks for the input. The 22e is a phase 2 2.2. The headgasket is what Fuji K used on his 22t/205 build and also his built 22t/d25 build.
"Just so you know the 11044AA542 HG is a 3layer HG. Same thickness as the WRX/STi EJ205/EJ257/EJ255. I ran them with my STOCK EJ22T shortblock on WRX EJ205 heads." Fuji K.
It has a 97mm bore. MLS and thickness of the 257 headgasket, .51 maybe if I remember correctly.
When I get ready to have this built, is it something that 3MI would be willing to build/put together? I still need to get the block to Motion Machine to work the thrust conversion. Thanks so much fer yer time.
Wait, I recognize that epic sandwich-eating man in the top right!
BUSTED!!!
Would have loved to hear more about EJ20 stroking and whether they do +2mm or +4mm rods for them. Also about the difference in spool from stroke changes vs Bore changes etc. loved this information guys keep it up! Can’t wait for the next one!
So for a stroked EJ20, simply think of it as a small bore EJ25. So a 132.5mm length rod would leave you with a plenty stout, and easy to assemble, 28.7mm compression height piston. It doesn't require you cutting into the oil ring.
Thanks for your question. I would mention that there are special pistons for the stroked EJ20's (with 79mm crank from the EJ25), and they actually move the wrist-pin up so that the stock length rods work.
With that in mind, adding a longer rod while also increasing stroke with the EJ25 crank would be a bit tricky.
I hope that helps, and Stay Tuned for more!
@@FlatironsTuning well...it would essentially be no different than making a 2mm rod EJ25. Only difference is the bore. So using 83mm stroker EJ20 pistons and using the 79mm crank and +2mm rods would work just fine, if I’m not mistaken.
@@Micah_Makes how are the characteristics of a 2.1 stroker in comparison to a 2.5? Is it just better to get a 2.5 block? Or is it worth it to build a 2.1 EJ20?
@@crxkid16 You can use a +2mm rod with the 75mm crank and the "2.1 stroker" pistons for sure. Where it would get difficult is trying to run a longer rod with the 79mm crank. You would need a very custom piston to keep it from pushing over the deck.
My ears are burning
For sure. This is definitely a topic that you are at the heart of. We will have to get you involved in a future conversation for sure!
@@FlatironsTuning I'm always up for a good discussion
do +2mm rods over 2006 sti stock rods require a new protune if thats all that was changed on the build?
I would definitely recommend it. Since you are changing the piston timing by going with the longer rod, you would need to re-set the spark timing to ensure that the engine is working properly.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Just about to drop in an Outfront V4 Racer+ engine. Running the 79mm Callies billet crank, and +2mm rods. Should be enough to handle all this PT6870 and BC280 cams can throw at it and spin up to 8k rpm without any issues! Not my daily, just a Mustang mashing street car.
Nice! Sounds like a fun build. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Let the ginger talk more. He knows what's up 😊
No doubt.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Okay so I have to ask... why are you wearing a mask while sitting in a room by yourself?
Because I'm not sitting in a room by myself :-) I recorded this from my desk, and the other guys (from the shop) were just to my left. Hence the headphones and mic set up.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!