Honestly I don't think people appreciate the true weight of knowledge he just shared with us for free. That was a 202 class for stupid fun response Street build or strong road race/ rally machine. Thank you.
I went with port and polishing the stock cast iron headers. Opened up all of the inlet ports to increase flow rate, but I left the header to up-pipe connection about the same to maintain velocity. Haven't tuned it yet, but I'm already pretty happy with it. Plus it was about 70 bucks worth of tools and a few hours vs $700+. The reliability of cast iron headers is hard to beat for a fun daily.
Did you write or video record your process / experience at all? I'd be super curious to see the tools and process you used. Nice idea though, sounds like a much better mid-power mod than dropping in $700 headers like you said
@@codyhendrickson7735 zero issues with headers, and I daily it to work 50 miles a day. Currently making 420whp/366tq on an EJ207 with a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XTR (8cm), Cobb FMIC, on E85. Tuner said I could have made more power but my high flow cat was limiting it. So the pnp headers is doing its job well. At higher power levels it might become restrictive. Something a tuner would know more about.
One thing that many don’t account for is that heat coming off of the header is a massive source of heat soak through your intake. Not so much for the stock intake/stock header but most of the aftermarket intakes pull air from the fender well, which winds up sucking up a ton of ultra hot air coming off of the header. Less an issue when you’re moving but in stop and go or if say you’re in drag/race staging you’re intake temps are going to very quickly go up over 150 degrees. Better air venting helps a lot. For that matter, $20-$30 of aluminum sheet can make a very functional heat shield for the header and up pipe…
Very true. We have melted enough things to cause us to really think about heat management on the headers on our cars. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I ran the latchute equal length on mine. My favorite feature was the header pipe went past the uppipe to header flange and slipped into the uppipe. This removed the possibilty dreaded uppipe leak. The car picked up a nice increase in midrange/high end torque. It lost about 300 rpms worth of spool time. Worth it imo. Also to note, since the rumble was gone, the smoother tone quieted the exhaust down significantly and I could hear more inside the car.
Thanks very much, that is really awesome to hear. Please share the podcast if you can to help get the word out. Thanks for your support and Stay Tuned!
I'm running CNT equal length header, and invidia up pipe, it's also painted with 1200⁰ header paint. My td06h 20g exhaust side is ceramic coated and the invidia catless down pipe is also painted with the 1200⁰ paint.
@@1VIPWRX well I don't have that issue with the V2. Then again I drive a 2005 legacy gt. Just bought the rear subframe for a 2017 sti and front hubs and knuckles. Yes they work on the 05-09 legacy chassis. Don't have to modify anything. Both vehicles have the same wheel base. So I'll be a 5x114.3 coming soon.
Thanks for your question. You would want to look at anything that might be close to a high heat source, or a line that moves something that is vulnerable to heat. Any wiring that is close to the exhaust is a good place to start, or vacuum/water lines that are close to the exhaust as well. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I read a lot of comments to find out what's the crossover pipe in the headers. Couldn't find a clue. Care to explaing it a little? Amazing content btw! Very much educational
I know Chris at Killer B does not recommend wrapping the header or it will void the warranty. Also Josh at bbr does not recommend wrapping as it can cause cracks. I think if you want the ultimate heat management you go with Swain technologies.
Thanks for the comment. We have yet to crack a header, but it is certainly a risk. We have melted enough things (plastic and wiring mostly), that it is something that we are comfortable with. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I like how you talked about header volume, heat insulation, and header design. But what about flow depending on the volume that your engine is flowing based on boost pressure, cylinder displacement, rpms, etc.
Thanks for your question Connor. That is where volume comes in. The more power your are making, the more air and fuel is being packed into the cylinders, and the more exhaust is heading out of the engine. That is where there would be come more of a need for a larger volume header, compared to a smaller one. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Awesome video, and thanks for the detailed information!!! Question, on the VB 2022+ platform, which top mount intercooler would you use on your own car; the COBB or ETS?
I'd like to see some data on GS's "Unequal Length" headers. Is this a marketing thing or are there actual aftermarket unequal length headers out there in the Subaru Market?
Thanks for the question. There are definitely unequal length headers out there. Not sure about the data from one to the other. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Equal length all day I have mine custom made with Innova’tig in Puerto Rico best header on the market v band with his uppipe 💪🏻 I do recommend him RBT-E header No wrap that’s a big mistake to do
Is this a setup you run? The ported oem header and harvey up-pipe has little information that I can find, but those who have this setup love the results.
Sure! We actually have a video on that as well: ruclips.net/video/idt2OAci6Ic/видео.html For the street, ceramic coating works all right. If you are tracking the car, we have had better luck with more aggressive measures like wrap, etc. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I actually have been debating which header I want to go with. Currently I run the agency power unequal length header which has cracked in two spots, it is not wrapped so it can happen without the wrap.
Thanks for your question. I would say that the gold reflective tape is a better and easier solution. You to want the pan to be able to radiate heat most everywhere else. You just want to try to prevent the headers from heating up the pan where they are close. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I see a lot of Killer B header on big setups like 600whp+ and so not with the smallest turbos... Maybe not the most volumed header as you said, but equal as I never seen before and getting the major heat away in a single spot and not in a unequal spot that can affect more one head than the other at some point (particually with an unequal), no? Like heat travelling efficiency to the turbo. Can you develop more about that, has I'm wrong? And with the same thinking equal on top of unequal should be the choice to make after a certain HP number, no?
Thanks for your question Hugo. Equal length runners for the header are always going to be a more efficient design. I would say the best way to think about that is they will have better peak power/max power typically. The point that we were trying to get across is that you have to also think about the volume and overall design of the headers as well to get the best benefit for your application. The Killer-B header is a good example. Yes, you can make good power with them for sure. But they will also have good spooling characteristics too. And the spool characteristics would be a better reason to pick those headers over their power potential. The car you mentioned making 600+ whp with the Killer-B headers would likely pick up a bit more peak power with a traditional equal length design, but it would also most likely mean that the turbo would spool up a bit later. With that in mind, it is easier to pick which header you would want to run. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I can't recall the brand that the company used when we were having headers coated, but I think that it was similar to what Swain Tech uses, or it was the same. Sorry I can't be more help there. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
When warranty is part of your equation, it is best to focus on wheels/tires, brakes, and suspension. The stock suspension feels pretty good from the factory. I'd suggest a good set of brake pads, and wheels and good summer tires. That is where I'd start. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Exactly. This is what we are referring to when we talk about considering volume in the video. The smaller the volume of the header the faster the turbo will spool up. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Does ceramic coating do a better job than the factory heat shields? The stock heatshields work loose and rattle like a mofo, especially the up pipe. I'm wondering if ceramic coated aftermarket downpipe and up pipe would radiate more heat than stock with heatshields.
Thanks for your question. I'd say that from our experience the answer is no. The factory heat shields will contain the heat more effectively. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have EJ204 NA engine on SG Facelift Forester streetcar . For NA engine which header is better for performance / fuel efficiency ? EL stock header or UEL header ?
Hello, great info first off. I'm new to the Subaru WRX STI. I have a 2013 STI, I like the look of chrome or polished headers. My car is more stock, it has stock header pipe off the engine. However do I really need a header wrap for a daily driver?
If you still have the factory cast iron headers, there should be metal heat shielding all-around the header. So no heat wrap is needed in your situation.
@eltonharris4502 no. The factory heat shields will not fit on the aftermarket headers. With aftermarket headers you got 2 common options. 1.) High temp Cerakote coating. 2.) Exhaust heat wrap.
Thanks for your question. If your car started out with a catless UEL header, then the aftermarket options won't require a tune to function properly. Though you will not get the full benefit of the aftermarket header until you tune the car with it installed. Hope that helps, and thanks for watching!
Thanks for your question. If you have the stock turbo, stay with the stock headers. They will give you the quickest spool, and you don't need the extra flow that the tubular headers offer. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning I just have to replace my exhaust manifold bc it’s junk already it has hole and everything and I was thinking getting a aftermarket one so that’s why I’m asking which one would be reliable and good for my 2014 wrx hatchback bc I’m not trying to buy the same stock intake manifold
Ok so conclusion, is unequal headers healthy for my WRX engine? Lol... Sorry I really loved the sound they produce, but I don't want to take a risk just for the sound. Thanks for the info
If your subaru came with unequal length headers (pretty much all but the VA/VB WRX's), then they will certainly not hurt your car. The results between unequal length headers and full equal-length headers are going to be somewhat close. Equal length headers are going to be more efficient, but as you say, you will lose some of that boxer rumble. If you have a VA/VB WRX that came with equal length headers, I wouldn't recommend swapping to UEL. Hope that helps, and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
Yes anything that effects the combustion cycle of your engine you should get a tune for. Subarus do not like when parts like this in without a tune. While in some cases you might be "ok" you should always want to bring out the most in all of the parts you put in your vehicle and that they all work together
Dumb question that's semi related... does the reflective tape on the air box (2016 wrx Cobb airbox in my case) actually lower temps? I've got the hood vented and the scoop blocked off (fmic) but it does get really hot under the hood still.
Thanks for the question. The reflective tape would reduce the amount of radiant heat that gets to the intake air, but ideally you would want a good source for ambient temperature air to get to the intake. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I prefer no headers for the noise but have problems building boost for some reason.
Have you tried blocking the ports? It'll build a lot of pressure.
@@PocketDrummer good idea. I’ll look into that.
Hmmm. Interesting...
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Have you checked the flux copasitor? 😊
😂
Honestly I don't think people appreciate the true weight of knowledge he just shared with us for free. That was a 202 class for stupid fun response Street build or strong road race/ rally machine. Thank you.
Thanks very much Matthew!
Really appreciate it and pass it on if you can.
Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning hard to drive a Scoob and not have Scoob friends . And already done sir. Shared and liked.
I went with port and polishing the stock cast iron headers. Opened up all of the inlet ports to increase flow rate, but I left the header to up-pipe connection about the same to maintain velocity. Haven't tuned it yet, but I'm already pretty happy with it. Plus it was about 70 bucks worth of tools and a few hours vs $700+. The reliability of cast iron headers is hard to beat for a fun daily.
For sure. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching.
Stay Tuned!
Did you write or video record your process / experience at all? I'd be super curious to see the tools and process you used. Nice idea though, sounds like a much better mid-power mod than dropping in $700 headers like you said
Good thinking!
Any updates on you getting this pnp header installed and the results you had. Always, what turbo were you running?
@@codyhendrickson7735 zero issues with headers, and I daily it to work 50 miles a day. Currently making 420whp/366tq on an EJ207 with a Blouch Dominator 1.5 XTR (8cm), Cobb FMIC, on E85. Tuner said I could have made more power but my high flow cat was limiting it. So the pnp headers is doing its job well.
At higher power levels it might become restrictive. Something a tuner would know more about.
One thing that many don’t account for is that heat coming off of the header is a massive source of heat soak through your intake. Not so much for the stock intake/stock header but most of the aftermarket intakes pull air from the fender well, which winds up sucking up a ton of ultra hot air coming off of the header. Less an issue when you’re moving but in stop and go or if say you’re in drag/race staging you’re intake temps are going to very quickly go up over 150 degrees. Better air venting helps a lot. For that matter, $20-$30 of aluminum sheet can make a very functional heat shield for the header and up pipe…
Very true. We have melted enough things to cause us to really think about heat management on the headers on our cars.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I always learn a lot from these Q & As. Thanks.
Thanks very much and glad that these videos have been helpful.
Stay Tuned!
I ran the latchute equal length on mine. My favorite feature was the header pipe went past the uppipe to header flange and slipped into the uppipe. This removed the possibilty dreaded uppipe leak. The car picked up a nice increase in midrange/high end torque. It lost about 300 rpms worth of spool time. Worth it imo. Also to note, since the rumble was gone, the smoother tone quieted the exhaust down significantly and I could hear more inside the car.
Glad to hear those headers are working well for you.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
*Lachute Performance
Stock headers with cross pipe gets the job done. Especially if it was ported . Thanks for the info
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Sooooooooooo many people disregard how efficient the stock headers truly are and are always quick to do that as one of their first upgrades
That is definitely easy to do.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I love you guys so much, watched all the podcasts, great information
Thanks very much, that is really awesome to hear. Please share the podcast if you can to help get the word out.
Thanks for your support and Stay Tuned!
I'm running CNT equal length header, and invidia up pipe, it's also painted with 1200⁰ header paint. My td06h 20g exhaust side is ceramic coated and the invidia catless down pipe is also painted with the 1200⁰ paint.
I also have a cnt header
@@1VIPWRX i bought mine when they first came out with the V2. It cost me 320 bucks at the time. No cracks or dents. Still in great shape!
@@eliasmelendez1271 i have the v2 installed and have the v3 for my new motor . V3 should give more clearance for the oil filter
@@1VIPWRX well I don't have that issue with the V2. Then again I drive a 2005 legacy gt. Just bought the rear subframe for a 2017 sti and front hubs and knuckles. Yes they work on the 05-09 legacy chassis. Don't have to modify anything. Both vehicles have the same wheel base. So I'll be a 5x114.3 coming soon.
Nice! Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
I just did the Tomei equal headers last friday. oem up pipe was cracked, new up pipe fixed the boost leak.
Nice! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What lines in the engine bay would you recommended insulating/gold wrapping for heat control?
Everything
Thanks for your question. You would want to look at anything that might be close to a high heat source, or a line that moves something that is vulnerable to heat. Any wiring that is close to the exhaust is a good place to start, or vacuum/water lines that are close to the exhaust as well.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I read a lot of comments to find out what's the crossover pipe in the headers. Couldn't find a clue.
Care to explaing it a little?
Amazing content btw! Very much educational
This amazing job I saw on those headers being wrapped making me wanna do it to mine asap.
Thanks very much. Stay Tuned!
I love your channel. Great content guys ❤. Great topics with great opinions which leads to THINKING about stuffs. Thx thx thx.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment. Really appreciate it!
Stay Tuned!
thoughts on the new grimspeed ulh?
I know Chris at Killer B does not recommend wrapping the header or it will void the warranty. Also Josh at bbr does not recommend wrapping as it can cause cracks. I think if you want the ultimate heat management you go with Swain technologies.
Thanks for the comment. We have yet to crack a header, but it is certainly a risk. We have melted enough things (plastic and wiring mostly), that it is something that we are comfortable with.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Bader uses the ets v2 max flow header now.
@@ranran2218 yes and he still has that old school Perrin.
I like how you talked about header volume, heat insulation, and header design. But what about flow depending on the volume that your engine is flowing based on boost pressure, cylinder displacement, rpms, etc.
Thanks for your question Connor. That is where volume comes in. The more power your are making, the more air and fuel is being packed into the cylinders, and the more exhaust is heading out of the engine. That is where there would be come more of a need for a larger volume header, compared to a smaller one.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Killer B Max VE...🔥Turn In Concepts working on the build
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Make a video on paring a turbo w cams, what would be ideal for 272 cams etc
Awesome video, and thanks for the detailed information!!! Question, on the VB 2022+ platform, which top mount intercooler would you use on your own car; the COBB or ETS?
I'd like to see some data on GS's "Unequal Length" headers. Is this a marketing thing or are there actual aftermarket unequal length headers out there in the Subaru Market?
Thanks for the question. There are definitely unequal length headers out there. Not sure about the data from one to the other.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
running holy headers with my pte5858, we'll see how it goes once it's tuned
Nice! Hope they work well for you.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Equal length all day
I have mine custom made with Innova’tig in Puerto Rico best header on the market v band with his uppipe 💪🏻 I do recommend him RBT-E header
No wrap that’s a big mistake to do
Thanks for the comment. Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning thanks for the awesome tips 💪🏻
Alex Innova'tig🔥💪
ported oem + harvey up pipe
Stay Tuned!
Is this a setup you run? The ported oem header and harvey up-pipe has little information that I can find, but those who have this setup love the results.
Thoughts of coating headers such as jet hot and swain tech
Sure! We actually have a video on that as well: ruclips.net/video/idt2OAci6Ic/видео.html
For the street, ceramic coating works all right. If you are tracking the car, we have had better luck with more aggressive measures like wrap, etc.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for the video
Of course. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I actually have been debating which header I want to go with. Currently I run the agency power unequal length header which has cracked in two spots, it is not wrapped so it can happen without the wrap.
That is true. Thanks for watching and hope the video was helpful.
Stay Tuned!
The ETS v2 max flow header is I think the best UEL header and can handle a STI pushing 1200hp proven by Josh bader.
Yep, that is a lot of power for sure. Thanks for the comment and Stay Tuned!
the fujitsubo one on my GD subaru sounds like a motorbike on idle but smooth power band
Would you recommend ceramic coating the oil pan??
Thanks for your question. I would say that the gold reflective tape is a better and easier solution. You to want the pan to be able to radiate heat most everywhere else. You just want to try to prevent the headers from heating up the pan where they are close.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your help and information much appreciated
@FlatironsTuning you think tomei elh is a good choice for a stock turbo 12sti on flex fuel and intake and tbe?
killer b EL header!!!
We definitely like their design.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I see a lot of Killer B header on big setups like 600whp+ and so not with the smallest turbos... Maybe not the most volumed header as you said, but equal as I never seen before and getting the major heat away in a single spot and not in a unequal spot that can affect more one head than the other at some point (particually with an unequal), no? Like heat travelling efficiency to the turbo. Can you develop more about that, has I'm wrong? And with the same thinking equal on top of unequal should be the choice to make after a certain HP number, no?
Thanks for your question Hugo. Equal length runners for the header are always going to be a more efficient design. I would say the best way to think about that is they will have better peak power/max power typically.
The point that we were trying to get across is that you have to also think about the volume and overall design of the headers as well to get the best benefit for your application.
The Killer-B header is a good example. Yes, you can make good power with them for sure. But they will also have good spooling characteristics too. And the spool characteristics would be a better reason to pick those headers over their power potential.
The car you mentioned making 600+ whp with the Killer-B headers would likely pick up a bit more peak power with a traditional equal length design, but it would also most likely mean that the turbo would spool up a bit later. With that in mind, it is easier to pick which header you would want to run.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Just wondering what ceramic coating you've tried on headers?
I can't recall the brand that the company used when we were having headers coated, but I think that it was similar to what Swain Tech uses, or it was the same.
Sorry I can't be more help there.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thank you so much
Absolutely. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What should be first modification on my 2022 WRX that wont void warranty?
When warranty is part of your equation, it is best to focus on wheels/tires, brakes, and suspension.
The stock suspension feels pretty good from the factory.
I'd suggest a good set of brake pads, and wheels and good summer tires.
That is where I'd start.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
So what about header routing? What does an ELH like the Killer B Holy compare to an HKS header or ETS?
Exactly. This is what we are referring to when we talk about considering volume in the video. The smaller the volume of the header the faster the turbo will spool up.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Does ceramic coating do a better job than the factory heat shields?
The stock heatshields work loose and rattle like a mofo, especially the up pipe. I'm wondering if ceramic coated aftermarket downpipe and up pipe would radiate more heat than stock with heatshields.
Thanks for your question. I'd say that from our experience the answer is no. The factory heat shields will contain the heat more effectively.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
I have EJ204 NA engine on SG Facelift Forester streetcar . For NA engine which header is better for performance / fuel efficiency ? EL stock header or UEL header ?
Thanks
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Hello, great info first off. I'm new to the Subaru WRX STI. I have a 2013 STI, I like the look of chrome or polished headers. My car is more stock, it has stock header pipe off the engine. However do I really need a header wrap for a daily driver?
If you still have the factory cast iron headers, there should be metal heat shielding all-around the header. So no heat wrap is needed in your situation.
@codyhendrickson7735 OK, so your saying that the aftermarket header will work with the factory heat shields?
@eltonharris4502 no. The factory heat shields will not fit on the aftermarket headers. With aftermarket headers you got 2 common options. 1.) High temp Cerakote coating. 2.) Exhaust heat wrap.
@@codyhendrickson7735 OK gotcha 👌🏾
Unequal length headers for the win! Pure rumble. Everything else sounds like a lawn mower or a Honda Civic.
Thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
I’m getting them headers on mine with coolant mod
Would it put your car at risk if you run UEL catless headers without a tune?
Thanks for your question. If your car started out with a catless UEL header, then the aftermarket options won't require a tune to function properly. Though you will not get the full benefit of the aftermarket header until you tune the car with it installed.
Hope that helps, and thanks for watching!
What would be the best for my stock 2014 wrx stock turbo ?
Thanks for your question. If you have the stock turbo, stay with the stock headers. They will give you the quickest spool, and you don't need the extra flow that the tubular headers offer.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning I just have to replace my exhaust manifold bc it’s junk already it has hole and everything and I was thinking getting a aftermarket one so that’s why I’m asking which one would be reliable and good for my 2014 wrx hatchback bc I’m not trying to buy the same stock intake manifold
Ok so conclusion, is unequal headers healthy for my WRX engine? Lol... Sorry I really loved the sound they produce, but I don't want to take a risk just for the sound. Thanks for the info
If your subaru came with unequal length headers (pretty much all but the VA/VB WRX's), then they will certainly not hurt your car. The results between unequal length headers and full equal-length headers are going to be somewhat close.
Equal length headers are going to be more efficient, but as you say, you will lose some of that boxer rumble.
If you have a VA/VB WRX that came with equal length headers, I wouldn't recommend swapping to UEL.
Hope that helps, and thanks for watching.
Stay Tuned!
Thanks 🙏🏼👍🏼
Xforce headers is the best in my opinion
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
do you have to get a tune after replacing the headers to equal length? does it affect the if i dont?
Yes anything that effects the combustion cycle of your engine you should get a tune for. Subarus do not like when parts like this in without a tune. While in some cases you might be "ok" you should always want to bring out the most in all of the parts you put in your vehicle and that they all work together
Dumb question that's semi related... does the reflective tape on the air box (2016 wrx Cobb airbox in my case) actually lower temps? I've got the hood vented and the scoop blocked off (fmic) but it does get really hot under the hood still.
Thanks for the question. The reflective tape would reduce the amount of radiant heat that gets to the intake air, but ideally you would want a good source for ambient temperature air to get to the intake.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Ya'll just saved me $500 thank you
Glad we could help and thanks for watching.
Stay Tuned!