For beginners, some back ground info: (Fighting) games are build up out of frames, 60 frames per second for SF6. A move consists out of 3 phases of frames: - start up (how long before the move hits) - active (it actually hits the opponent during these frames) - recovery (you can’t do anything until your move is done) When you hit some one (or they block something), they are in hit stun or block stun, meaning they also are in a recovery phase. The difference between your recovery being done and their block/hit stun being done is the advantage (or disadvantage). Meaning; if you recover first, it’s your turn to make a move. Having a huge advantage is not great, because you don’t have moves with huge start ups. This means you have to eye ball when some one gets up and meet their wake up with about 2 to 5 active frames. Remember, there are 60(!) frames in a second so you’re manually timing within a window of 2/60th of a second. Thats very prone to miss. In this video I’m teaching a method to automatically reduce your advantage to a desired amount of frames. This way you can automatically time your attack to hit on their wake up with way more accuracy. Hope that helps to understand whats going on here!
@@iZonkGaming2021chun li has a stance heavy punch that is perfectly timed against a wakeup after her knockdown. Same for her water lotus fist 3hp. But once the opponent learns that, secret is out. So this stuff is useful for her mixups.
Yw!! Yea very useful stuff. Instead of copying its best to think for yourself and try stuff. Where the mk might seem best for Ken in example one according to numbers, its not what I actually like using so always best to understand it and do “you” 😎
i was always wondering why all my buttons aren't coming out on wakeup i thought my controller has some issues haha but after watching this video and going back to replays i can confirm they were frame killing as well, i really appreciate the information man thanks !
Yw!! I do share the feeling of inputs being eaten in sf6 by the way. Leaving frame kills out of the equation: pretty sure the input buffer isnt 100% right now, I expect improvements honestly
yo this is sick to know. thanks for the vid iZonk. I actually really hate when my opponent is in the corner, for whatever reason it feels just as dangerous for me as it does them. This will help me feel more sure of what kind of aggression I can push rather than backing up and playing defense on their escape attempts
For sure, using a frame kill that lets you walk back (like the cammy in game situation at the start) will beat their delay throw, their OD reversal and if they jump out, you can react with a jump back jab to keep them cornered. It loses to cmk into drive rush, but everything has a weakness ofcourse Glad it helped, you have advantage, you get to decide what happens 😎
so if I get this right being +33 is usually better than +3 but in this case we're fishing for that counter hit so we want to be +3 to be slightly ahead of them to bait the counter hit right?
Ideally you wanna be +2 to +4 at point blank range because then there is a true strike throw mixup. The fastest buttons are 4 f start up. A throw is 5 f start up. In sf6, strikes beat throws when they are active on the same frame There for..when you are +1, your throw will lose to an opponent pressing their fastest button since they will be active on the same frame. So you need to be +2 or better to beat their button, so that they have to guess between strike and throw. If you have more advantage then +4 you cant throw them either, you need to manually delay, which gives room for error. When an opponent is in block stun hit stun or wakes up, they are throw invulnerable. Since a throw is 5f start up, you cant throw at +5 or more, so thats why +2 to +4 is best. +33 is way too much, unless you are out of throw range. Then you can dash forward to move into throw range and decrease your frame advantage ✌️
This is good advice, I got bodied cos I was stuck in a corner and the player just keeps hitting me without me having a chance to retaliate, despite using LP or CLP that has a very short start up frame.
Thx jacky! I’m not an expert on input lag but I do play on non-max settings. I feel like it reduces the amount of errors and disconnects by a substantional amount, the game is stable now. I dont really experience input lag, but of course I do have a frequent input drops, because there is something wonky about the special cancels in this game. It def feels like the input buffer is a bit off. The longer window on wake up reversals that they implemented this last patch did improve the experience for me!
Hey! Depends on the set up. Most of them are auto timed, so frame one. You can just mash the button and it should come out as soon as the previous one is done recovering.
So I'm still a beginner since this is my first fighting game since sf2. I got it in late August 2023. I've been only playing chun Ii, classic controls. I have gone from rookie rank to am now struggling against smurfs (clearly master levels on new chars) at plat 5 (got close to diamond but then had a losing streak). What I dont get still is the options for the corner or wake up. I still wing this. Some people really have that down. I also eat a lot of jump ins from ryu and Ken on chun li after fireballs. I also drop my block too early expecting throws but then just eat combos. Sometimes I do unsafe enders and then eat punish combos. I still have trouble canceling into drive impact on crunching medium kick on chun li and get screwed that way a lot. Other people also have strong cancel drive rush hit confirms and full extended combos. I have full combos some days (mess up some) but no extended combos with drive rush cancel. I lose footsies some. I lose against manon or Zangief since I don't seem to understand command throws.
Great job being plat 5 for a first fighting game, thats great! Most of the things youre writing are practise. On wake up i’d just block amd watch what they do. You could also try delay throw tech in those ranks. Block for a few frames and then Press throw. Last point you mention; command grabs have to be jumped, back dashed or use something invincible (od upkicks or a super). You’re guessing at the end of the day..look at your health, is it OK to get thrown? Or are you in big trouble of they command grab you? If its the latter, you can go for od upkicks or a super
@@iZonkGaming2021 ok this is very helpful. I didn't know command grabs were such a strong punish mixup. I imagine those manon or Zangief players really watch for if you wake up to avoid the throw and then go for hit combos instead. I guess the goal is to not have any long gaps they can use one in.
Yup! Its more dominant in sf6 than sfv, because in sfv the back recovery is 5 frames slower than quick rise. That means the situation in the corner (where spacing doesn’t matter, they will be in the same spot regardless of their recovery decision) in sf6 is the same but in sfv there is a 5 frame difference. So in sfv, its much harder to frame kill, you need to watch their recovery and adjust your meaty button. In sf6 you can use the same button regardless of recovery so its much more powerful now
@@iZonkGaming2021 Man.. yesterday I played some matches. I WAS on gold *. I ended up with ****. And I was kinda stuck... really, it helped a lot. Keep up with these great content
If I'm understanding right, with the frame kill they'll be hit even if they try to throw, so why shimmy if you think they're going to throw when you'd hit them anyway?
I am trying to understand something, if the crouching light punch beats throw, then why would you need to walk back anticipating a throw? Did you mean to say OD reversal here?
@@iZonkGaming2021 at 2:23 you show that the meaty beats the throw, at 3:17 you say that you don't use this meaty because if you are afraid she is going to throw you will backwalk.
@jamesparlier1426 check, ok..so if i do clp, it beats throw. But if suspect an OD reversal or a super, my clp wil get hit. So to beat OD reversal/wake up super, i walk back (a shimmy, it blocks their wake up invulnerable move). But it i walk back and they go for throw, i will get thrown into the corner. We dont want that. Thats why i like the next option, where i can walk out of their wake up throw AND block their OD reversal. I wanna beat multiple options with the same action/frame kill
Haha understandable! Its advanced. Ok the bare basics: A game is made up out of frames, 60 frames per second. Thats what you see. A move (buttons, specials) take a certain amount of frames to complete. They consist out of: Start up frames, active frames (when they can actually hit the opponent) and recovery frames in which the player cant make his next move, you have to wait till youre done. When you hit some one (on block or actually hit), the opponent is in block or hit stun, where they also can’t move. When i say “we have X amount of advantage” it means that my move is done recovering those X amount of frames before the opponent. So i can move before they can move basically. Its my turn to attack. In the video i knock people down. I have lots of advantage, because when the opponent is knocked down, it takes a long time for them to get up, much longer than the recovery of my move. In example one, i have 33 frames of advantage, thus i am “+33” That is way too much because i dont have a move that has 33 (or 30) frames of start up. So i have to wait..and manually time my next attack, which is prone to go wrong. Because..60 frames in a second, an attack has about 4 to 10 frames of start up generally…so we are talking 4/60 of a second. Thats nothing, thats a blink of an eye So the video shows how you can “kill frames” .. meaning how you can purposely whiff a button to lower the amount of frames to a small number, so that you can auto time your next attack and will always hit them as soon as they get up so that they cant press a button, they have to guess right away between attack, throw or me walking back Hope that helps! Its very nerdy if you arent familiair with it sk consider this a start haha there are YT videos in this, i advice Sajam - reading frame data ✌️
@@iZonkGaming2021 oh wow, thank you for taking your time to type all that out. I appreciate it. I think I have an idea of what frames are now. I'm new to the fighting game scene and I'd like to learn more. I'll start with the video you suggested!
@@iZonkGaming2021This is really special, thank you for explaining this, I learned something for sure out of this and I'm sure not only me, thank you :)
Dude Holy crap! I don't know why i never knew this. I'm sure I've heard it before but it never clicked until I watched this. Time to practice. Thank you so much!
I somewhat understand this concept, but not fully. I dont understand frames. but this give me a far better idea. I will use this to study and frame work . cool stuff
Waking up in the corner is always a guess, you are per definition disadvantaged. A frame kill only ensures that the “mistimed it” aspect isnt there, making it more likely the attacker is on point. Sooo you are guessing. Its best to bet on something that beats multiple options most of the time like..block for a few frames and then throw tech. This beats strikes and throws, it loses to shimmies. Or OD reversal, same deal. Or if you are very sure they will shimmy, you bet on that and do a cmk into drive rush, that will clip movement. Blocking also fine, block the first few hits and then parry. You are guessing though, offense dominates in sf6
Yw! 😎 its in a lot of fighting games but its way more prevalent in sf6 because in sf6 there is no difference in frame data between quick rise and back roll. So in the corner, where you cant roll away, the situation is always the same so the attacker can do his frame kill and doesn’t have to pay attention how the defender gets up. In sfv, the back recovery is 5 frames later so if you frame kill there, you have to watch how they recover as you do your frame kill and decide on the spot which button you need, its way harder to use, taking away from the strength of this concept 😎
The concept of a frame kill? They could delay the back roll a few frames (like sfv) and its gonna be way harder to do consistently, so who knows..maybe they’ll take it out
@@iZonkGaming2021 yes, i get trouble with that online. For exemple, i try to get up with an ex-shoryuken & i get stopped by a light/mid punch. I don't know if it's more due to a connection issue or that frame kill ^^
For which knock down? Every combo ender/combo has a different knock down advantage so you have to change the frame kill options. With which combo do you knock people down mostly? What combo do you do? If I know that, I could have a look at ot and think of an option for Dee Jay
The beg makes it appealing but unlikely haha Juri will be next. You could try thr MC Mura guide, he makes in depth stuff usually. Haven’t watched his Chun guide but I bet its useful!
Oh i played her, I had a few! I remember after hitting gladius in the corner, I would whiff a medium punch to kill frames. Don’t remember the exact frame data but if you press another mp it will counter hit them and you can also (command) throw from it. Try something like that 😎 Enjoy Marisa!
Good question, no that changes things. People can recover in place or back recover. They dont change the wake up timing (same frame) but do change the position. In the corner, they will always be in the same spot, back against the wall. You use these in the corner 👌
@@iZonkGaming2021 makes sense, thanks man. Hope this pushes me to Plat 2. I’m trying to figure out how to bait the drive impact because everyone is spamming it on every mistake.
For which knock down do you want to do it? Ryu wants to use st mp for most attacks on wake up..so you need to know 1: how much advantage do you have on the knock downs you want to do this for and 2: which move can you whiff? I can help you with the second point
Que vídeo bom. Sou jogador de Tekken e algums coisas acontecem em SF6 que eu não entendo. Sei como aplicar Frame data no. Jogo. Mas ainda estou me adaptando pois o jogo é rápido e precisa de reação para quase tudo. Percebi que algumas pessoas reagem a DI mesmo elas apertando alguns botões. Quais botoes podem ser apertados que ainda é possivel reagir a um DI. Estou usando Ryu e durante um F HP (sollar) o adversário usa DI para vencer o solar plexus mas o meu DI nao sai de forma alguma. Existe alguma regra para revidar DI ? Obrigado
Hi Vinicius, thanks for watching! Good question, and I have a clear answer. DI is considered somewhat of a Special Move meaning that buttons that cancel into specials can also cancel into DI. Solar Plexus is not cancelable, so if somebody happens to DI, you will be punished and your DI will not come out. Solar Plexus is +1 on block and gives a big combo on hit, so it’s very good however it’s slow and will lose to DI, that’s how the move is balanced. For Ryu, you can poke with Heavy Punch and Crouch Medium Kick, those buttons CAN cancel to Drive Impact. This is a big part of the neutral game. If you can convince your opponent to not Drive Impact in neutral, you can steal turns and pressure with Solar Plexus. If you use Solar Plexus a lot, people will resort to Drive Impact more and more Good luck! I made a Ryu guide where I go over this in the first few minutes 👌
@@iZonkGaming2021 Thanks for the reply, it was very enlightening. I really use Solar a lot because it was the only scam I found to stay positive. (In Tekken there are many) so it's a craze I need to lose. I already watched your video of Ryu, now I'm going to train with the knowledge obtained. Success and thank you. Sorry for the google translation.
@@viniciusbarreto6530o foda desse jogo vindo de outros fg é isso msm, tem muito poucos botões que são positivos. Mas dps q entende o pq vc vai ver q é bem melhor, não da pra os cara ficar spammando sequência sem pensar igual no SFV por ex, então o "flowchart" nesse game é bem menos presente por causa disso e do DI. O truque pra ficar positivo no SF6 é usar o drive rush. Toda move que vc usa no drive rush ganha uns +4 frames de vantagem em hit e block, então um medium punch q te deixaria -3 vc fica +1, podendo continuar a pressão depois. Se vc quer ficar positivo meio q tem q gastar meter, o drive rush direto do parry custa 1 barra mas o cara consegue interromper dependendo da distância e personagem, e vc cancelar um golpe no driverush é bem difícil de interromper dependendo da move q vc usar, só q custa 3 barras. Parece caro, mas vale bastante a pena pq vc continua pressionando e o cara vai ter q adivinhar se vai dar throw nessa situação. Enfim, no modo treino se vc ir nas opções de visualização ou interface, acho q é a penúltima página, recomendo ligar o frame meter (a barrinha q aparece no video) pra vc poder ver os frames de cada move, e como elas mudam em hit/block quando vc usa o drive rush. Também tem uma opção de cancel timing (janela de cancelamento acho) q faz vc brilhar vermelho quando pode cancelar uma move em special. Se vc pode cancelar em special, também pode no DI e driverush, q já ajuda a resolver o problema q vc tava tendo.
Eu jogo de ryu também e sofro um pouco com DI, mas tem q fazer igual o cara falou, usa os botões cancelaveis pra pokear, e dependendo do timing vc consegue cancelar num DI. Não é sempre garantido com o heavy punch por exemplo, pq as vezes o DI do cara vai tarde e vc reage dps da janela de cancelamento do soco. Mas é interessante vc ver que o tempo reação mínimo é uns 15-18 frames, então uma move igual o soco pesado q tem uns 10f de startup é impossível de reagir, o cara se der DI nele é pq ele ta tacando tentando prever q vc vai usar. Se vc ver q o cara usa mt DI, a melhor opção é vc evitar usar os botões pesados e usar os mais leves, q tem recovery menor como o light kick, crouching medium kick, crouching medium punch, q todos vc pode cancelar bem fácil no DI. Até sequência de lights que vc consegue soltar 3x seguidas, facilitam mt pra reagir ao DI. Outra coisa q o frame meter ajuda também, pq vc consegue ver suas blockstring e o quanto tempo o cara fica preso em blockstun, q é o amarelinho na barra de baixo. Se tiver algum frame que não ta amarelo, quer dizer q ele pode usar DI, então as vezes vc cancelar um medium kick naquele special q dá chutão, o cara consegue tacar o DI entre o medium kick e o chutão, ai vc mama. Mas é outra coisa q é impossível de reagir, o cara tem q prever então vc pode baitar só usando o medium kick e dps fazendo nada. Não dá pra vc jogar no piloto automático por causa disso, tem q ir vendo os padrões e ficar variando pq se vc fica previsível vai mamar pro DI o tempo inteiro.
@@10Edguy Show obrigado pela dica. Essa no modo treino vale ouro, eu ainda não me adaptei ao modo de treino. Por onde faço pesquisas dizem que Ryu é bom mas que é fácil de jogar contra ele acho que por isso estou sofrendo kkkk. Mas não vou desistir. O maior problema mesmo é a velocidade do jogo. Tekken tem golpe mais rápido de i10 aqui é i4. Percebi TB que não se deve pular ou apenas pular para cair nas costas do adversário, isso TB me incomoda kkkk. Tekken não existe pulo. O joga é divertido e quero aprender a jogar de forma certa. GG
@@iZonkGaming2021 Sure! I love to lab this kind of things. And it's good that it's a universal mechanic and not character specific. The frame data display of this game is probably the best I've ever seen in a video game.
For beginners, some back ground info:
(Fighting) games are build up out of frames, 60 frames per second for SF6. A move consists out of 3 phases of frames:
- start up (how long before the move hits)
- active (it actually hits the opponent during these frames)
- recovery (you can’t do anything until your move is done)
When you hit some one (or they block something), they are in hit stun or block stun, meaning they also are in a recovery phase.
The difference between your recovery being done and their block/hit stun being done is the advantage (or disadvantage). Meaning; if you recover first, it’s your turn to make a move.
Having a huge advantage is not great, because you don’t have moves with huge start ups. This means you have to eye ball when some one gets up and meet their wake up with about 2 to 5 active frames. Remember, there are 60(!) frames in a second so you’re manually timing within a window of 2/60th of a second. Thats very prone to miss.
In this video I’m teaching a method to automatically reduce your advantage to a desired amount of frames. This way you can automatically time your attack to hit on their wake up with way more accuracy.
Hope that helps to understand whats going on here!
If you do nothing, do you still have this frame advantage? How long is the wake up frames?
Depends on each knock down. So different per move and per character, so i advise to test in training with your characters most common combo ender
@@iZonkGaming2021chun li has a stance heavy punch that is perfectly timed against a wakeup after her knockdown. Same for her water lotus fist 3hp. But once the opponent learns that, secret is out. So this stuff is useful for her mixups.
i saw some other pro players doing this but i didn't know the real use for it. Thanks for the tips!
Yw!! Yea very useful stuff. Instead of copying its best to think for yourself and try stuff. Where the mk might seem best for Ken in example one according to numbers, its not what I actually like using so always best to understand it and do “you” 😎
i was always wondering why all my buttons aren't coming out on wakeup i thought my controller has some issues haha but after watching this video and going back to replays i can confirm they were frame killing as well, i really appreciate the information man thanks !
Yw!! I do share the feeling of inputs being eaten in sf6 by the way. Leaving frame kills out of the equation: pretty sure the input buffer isnt 100% right now, I expect improvements honestly
yo this is sick to know. thanks for the vid iZonk.
I actually really hate when my opponent is in the corner, for whatever reason it feels just as dangerous for me as it does them. This will help me feel more sure of what kind of aggression I can push rather than backing up and playing defense on their escape attempts
For sure, using a frame kill that lets you walk back (like the cammy in game situation at the start) will beat their delay throw, their OD reversal and if they jump out, you can react with a jump back jab to keep them cornered. It loses to cmk into drive rush, but everything has a weakness ofcourse
Glad it helped, you have advantage, you get to decide what happens 😎
Well said, I believe that this will improve my knowledge,.simply because framekill is such an important tool as it is a skill.
Thank you very much for this interesting explanation. I just tried it and it works perfectly. Its very easy and effective to do with HP
Yw! And you can think of stuff for every knock down, I’m changing my choices pretty frequently, don’t think I have my fav set up yet 😎
I’ve been doing or at least trying meaties without frame killing, really need to learn this if I wanna level up
Yup and its also fun because you can find your own set up and when that works, its all you 😎
so if I get this right being +33 is usually better than +3 but in this case we're fishing for that counter hit so we want to be +3 to be slightly ahead of them to bait the counter hit right?
Ideally you wanna be +2 to +4 at point blank range because then there is a true strike throw mixup. The fastest buttons are 4 f start up. A throw is 5 f start up. In sf6, strikes beat throws when they are active on the same frame
There for..when you are +1, your throw will lose to an opponent pressing their fastest button since they will be active on the same frame. So you need to be +2 or better to beat their button, so that they have to guess between strike and throw.
If you have more advantage then +4 you cant throw them either, you need to manually delay, which gives room for error. When an opponent is in block stun hit stun or wakes up, they are throw invulnerable. Since a throw is 5f start up, you cant throw at +5 or more, so thats why +2 to +4 is best.
+33 is way too much, unless you are out of throw range. Then you can dash forward to move into throw range and decrease your frame advantage ✌️
This is good advice, I got bodied cos I was stuck in a corner and the player just keeps hitting me without me having a chance to retaliate, despite using LP or CLP that has a very short start up frame.
Love the videos man. I’m curious do you play on 1080 p or 1440? I heard the former is better for input lag?
Thx jacky! I’m not an expert on input lag but I do play on non-max settings. I feel like it reduces the amount of errors and disconnects by a substantional amount, the game is stable now. I dont really experience input lag, but of course I do have a frequent input drops, because there is something wonky about the special cancels in this game. It def feels like the input buffer is a bit off. The longer window on wake up reversals that they implemented this last patch did improve the experience for me!
thanks bro checking this out later
Hey I hope you reply I finally understand this, I just dont know if I have to hit exactly in the same frame or 1 frame before or 1 frame after?
Hey! Depends on the set up. Most of them are auto timed, so frame one. You can just mash the button and it should come out as soon as the previous one is done recovering.
Hey this video helped me.but i would like to know are you dutch??
Yes I am! 🇱🇺
So I'm still a beginner since this is my first fighting game since sf2. I got it in late August 2023. I've been only playing chun Ii, classic controls.
I have gone from rookie rank to am now struggling against smurfs (clearly master levels on new chars) at plat 5 (got close to diamond but then had a losing streak).
What I dont get still is the options for the corner or wake up. I still wing this. Some people really have that down.
I also eat a lot of jump ins from ryu and Ken on chun li after fireballs.
I also drop my block too early expecting throws but then just eat combos.
Sometimes I do unsafe enders and then eat punish combos.
I still have trouble canceling into drive impact on crunching medium kick on chun li and get screwed that way a lot.
Other people also have strong cancel drive rush hit confirms and full extended combos. I have full combos some days (mess up some) but no extended combos with drive rush cancel.
I lose footsies some.
I lose against manon or Zangief since I don't seem to understand command throws.
Great job being plat 5 for a first fighting game, thats great! Most of the things youre writing are practise. On wake up i’d just block amd watch what they do. You could also try delay throw tech in those ranks. Block for a few frames and then Press throw.
Last point you mention; command grabs have to be jumped, back dashed or use something invincible (od upkicks or a super). You’re guessing at the end of the day..look at your health, is it OK to get thrown? Or are you in big trouble of they command grab you? If its the latter, you can go for od upkicks or a super
@@iZonkGaming2021 ok this is very helpful. I didn't know command grabs were such a strong punish mixup. I imagine those manon or Zangief players really watch for if you wake up to avoid the throw and then go for hit combos instead. I guess the goal is to not have any long gaps they can use one in.
This has been staple in SF for years and good info to share. Didn't know it had a name just something we always did. Frame kill sounds cool tho.
Yup! Its more dominant in sf6 than sfv, because in sfv the back recovery is 5 frames slower than quick rise. That means the situation in the corner (where spacing doesn’t matter, they will be in the same spot regardless of their recovery decision) in sf6 is the same but in sfv there is a 5 frame difference. So in sfv, its much harder to frame kill, you need to watch their recovery and adjust your meaty button. In sf6 you can use the same button regardless of recovery so its much more powerful now
@@iZonkGaming2021 I was refering to sf2 turbo and alpha 3 but i get your point. its all about advantage
Advanced level strats I like!
One of the best guides I have seen so far... congrats. Tumbs up, subscribed and shared. Tks!
Wow thanks! Ringing endorsement🤩
@@iZonkGaming2021 Man.. yesterday I played some matches. I WAS on gold *. I ended up with ****. And I was kinda stuck... really, it helped a lot. Keep up with these great content
If I'm understanding right, with the frame kill they'll be hit even if they try to throw, so why shimmy if you think they're going to throw when you'd hit them anyway?
Mainly because they can beat your strike AND throw with an OD reversal or super. Shimmy beats both. 😎
@@iZonkGaming2021 Also when do you stream? I followed your twitch but haven't seen you on.
I am trying to understand something, if the crouching light punch beats throw, then why would you need to walk back anticipating a throw? Did you mean to say OD reversal here?
Do you have a time stamp? It’s been a while 😅
@@iZonkGaming2021 at 2:23 you show that the meaty beats the throw, at 3:17 you say that you don't use this meaty because if you are afraid she is going to throw you will backwalk.
@jamesparlier1426 check, ok..so if i do clp, it beats throw. But if suspect an OD reversal or a super, my clp wil get hit. So to beat OD reversal/wake up super, i walk back (a shimmy, it blocks their wake up invulnerable move). But it i walk back and they go for throw, i will get thrown into the corner. We dont want that. Thats why i like the next option, where i can walk out of their wake up throw AND block their OD reversal. I wanna beat multiple options with the same action/frame kill
THE ZONK !!!
This is huge! Can’t wait to get to testing 🔬
Good luck! Lets see some creativity 🤩
Any basics on frames? I don't understand what these numbers mean at all 😂
Haha understandable! Its advanced. Ok the bare basics:
A game is made up out of frames, 60 frames per second. Thats what you see.
A move (buttons, specials) take a certain amount of frames to complete. They consist out of:
Start up frames, active frames (when they can actually hit the opponent) and recovery frames in which the player cant make his next move, you have to wait till youre done.
When you hit some one (on block or actually hit), the opponent is in block or hit stun, where they also can’t move.
When i say “we have X amount of advantage” it means that my move is done recovering those X amount of frames before the opponent. So i can move before they can move basically. Its my turn to attack.
In the video i knock people down. I have lots of advantage, because when the opponent is knocked down, it takes a long time for them to get up, much longer than the recovery of my move.
In example one, i have 33 frames of advantage, thus i am “+33”
That is way too much because i dont have a move that has 33 (or 30) frames of start up. So i have to wait..and manually time my next attack, which is prone to go wrong. Because..60 frames in a second, an attack has about 4 to 10 frames of start up generally…so we are talking 4/60 of a second. Thats nothing, thats a blink of an eye
So the video shows how you can “kill frames” .. meaning how you can purposely whiff a button to lower the amount of frames to a small number, so that you can auto time your next attack and will always hit them as soon as they get up so that they cant press a button, they have to guess right away between attack, throw or me walking back
Hope that helps! Its very nerdy if you arent familiair with it sk consider this a start haha there are YT videos in this, i advice Sajam - reading frame data
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@@iZonkGaming2021 oh wow, thank you for taking your time to type all that out. I appreciate it. I think I have an idea of what frames are now. I'm new to the fighting game scene and I'd like to learn more. I'll start with the video you suggested!
@@iZonkGaming2021This is really special, thank you for explaining this, I learned something for sure out of this and I'm sure not only me, thank you :)
Yw!! Happy to help players improve a bit!
Dude Holy crap! I don't know why i never knew this. I'm sure I've heard it before but it never clicked until I watched this. Time to practice. Thank you so much!
Haha awesome reaction bro! Good luck finding out the character specific nerd stuff
I somewhat understand this concept, but not fully. I dont understand frames. but this give me a far better idea. I will use this to study and frame work . cool stuff
Nicd, hope it helps. If you have any questions, let me know 👍
Wow okay I only really understood the value of the startup and advantage framed but now I know the purpose of total frames
Mister @iZonkgaming2021 , i tkank you for your work. Your videos means a lot for a beginner like me.
Ah great comment, player growth is what it’s all about 💯
How you say your name is still so awesome 🤘🏾😁 Good vid for newer players, Pay attention!
Haha thank you 😎
We need a manon video from you
Haven’t tried her yet! Is she fun? Probably, other wise you wouldn’t ask haha 😅
@@iZonkGaming2021 yea she is pretty fun: you do a great job with your tutorials on a short period of time: what other characters will you upload next?
Thank you! Now everything makes sense!
Yw, hope you can make it work in your gameplay!
Awesome video. Very clear explanation I got it right away!
Nice to hear!!
goodvid
Thx Jiga, long time 👋
Nice vídeo! Do a ryu example
I got a question: what are the ways to retaliate/defend against the frame kill attacks. Is blocking the only way out?
Waking up in the corner is always a guess, you are per definition disadvantaged. A frame kill only ensures that the “mistimed it” aspect isnt there, making it more likely the attacker is on point. Sooo you are guessing. Its best to bet on something that beats multiple options most of the time like..block for a few frames and then throw tech. This beats strikes and throws, it loses to shimmies. Or OD reversal, same deal. Or if you are very sure they will shimmy, you bet on that and do a cmk into drive rush, that will clip movement.
Blocking also fine, block the first few hits and then parry. You are guessing though, offense dominates in sf6
@@iZonkGaming2021 Cool, thanks for the tips! Have been learning a lot of stuff from you and can't wait for your next upload!
This blew my mind. Thank you for this!
Yw! 😎 its in a lot of fighting games but its way more prevalent in sf6 because in sf6 there is no difference in frame data between quick rise and back roll. So in the corner, where you cant roll away, the situation is always the same so the attacker can do his frame kill and doesn’t have to pay attention how the defender gets up. In sfv, the back recovery is 5 frames later so if you frame kill there, you have to watch how they recover as you do your frame kill and decide on the spot which button you need, its way harder to use, taking away from the strength of this concept 😎
I hate that feature
The concept of a frame kill? They could delay the back roll a few frames (like sfv) and its gonna be way harder to do consistently, so who knows..maybe they’ll take it out
@@iZonkGaming2021 yes, i get trouble with that online.
For exemple, i try to get up with an ex-shoryuken & i get stopped by a light/mid punch.
I don't know if it's more due to a connection issue or that frame kill ^^
Great video. Thanks!
Yw!
Can you do one on DJ PLEASE
For which knock down? Every combo ender/combo has a different knock down advantage so you have to change the frame kill options.
With which combo do you knock people down mostly? What combo do you do?
If I know that, I could have a look at ot and think of an option for Dee Jay
Please a Chun Li guide I beg you!
The beg makes it appealing but unlikely haha Juri will be next. You could try thr MC Mura guide, he makes in depth stuff usually. Haven’t watched his Chun guide but I bet its useful!
How to beat dp on wake up ?
OD reversal needs to be blocked, so you can walk back from the frame kill. That will beat the dp and also the throw tech from the defender 👌
Awessome! Gonna find these out with marisa
Oh i played her, I had a few! I remember after hitting gladius in the corner, I would whiff a medium punch to kill frames. Don’t remember the exact frame data but if you press another mp it will counter hit them and you can also (command) throw from it. Try something like that 😎
Enjoy Marisa!
@@iZonkGaming2021all try it! Just st mp right ? So you do smp after the glad and then go into scutum grab? ( if I wanted to try the grab version )
Great tech, great video.
Glad it helps!
Can you apply this when not in a corner?
Good question, no that changes things. People can recover in place or back recover. They dont change the wake up timing (same frame) but do change the position.
In the corner, they will always be in the same spot, back against the wall. You use these in the corner 👌
@@iZonkGaming2021 makes sense, thanks man. Hope this pushes me to Plat 2. I’m trying to figure out how to bait the drive impact because everyone is spamming it on every mistake.
Very good tutorial thank you
Thx!! Glad to help 👊
How do you do this with Ryu?
For which knock down do you want to do it?
Ryu wants to use st mp for most attacks on wake up..so you need to know 1: how much advantage do you have on the knock downs you want to do this for and 2: which move can you whiff? I can help you with the second point
Great video
Thx 😎
Que vídeo bom. Sou jogador de Tekken e algums coisas acontecem em SF6 que eu não entendo. Sei como aplicar Frame data no. Jogo. Mas ainda estou me adaptando pois o jogo é rápido e precisa de reação para quase tudo.
Percebi que algumas pessoas reagem a DI mesmo elas apertando alguns botões. Quais botoes podem ser apertados que ainda é possivel reagir a um DI. Estou usando Ryu e durante um F HP (sollar) o adversário usa DI para vencer o solar plexus mas o meu DI nao sai de forma alguma. Existe alguma regra para revidar DI ?
Obrigado
Hi Vinicius, thanks for watching! Good question, and I have a clear answer.
DI is considered somewhat of a Special Move meaning that buttons that cancel into specials can also cancel into DI.
Solar Plexus is not cancelable, so if somebody happens to DI, you will be punished and your DI will not come out.
Solar Plexus is +1 on block and gives a big combo on hit, so it’s very good however it’s slow and will lose to DI, that’s how the move is balanced.
For Ryu, you can poke with Heavy Punch and Crouch Medium Kick, those buttons CAN cancel to Drive Impact.
This is a big part of the neutral game. If you can convince your opponent to not Drive Impact in neutral, you can steal turns and pressure with Solar Plexus. If you use Solar Plexus a lot, people will resort to Drive Impact more and more
Good luck! I made a Ryu guide where I go over this in the first few minutes 👌
@@iZonkGaming2021
Thanks for the reply, it was very enlightening.
I really use Solar a lot because it was the only scam I found to stay positive. (In Tekken there are many) so it's a craze I need to lose.
I already watched your video of Ryu, now I'm going to train with the knowledge obtained.
Success and thank you.
Sorry for the google translation.
@@viniciusbarreto6530o foda desse jogo vindo de outros fg é isso msm, tem muito poucos botões que são positivos. Mas dps q entende o pq vc vai ver q é bem melhor, não da pra os cara ficar spammando sequência sem pensar igual no SFV por ex, então o "flowchart" nesse game é bem menos presente por causa disso e do DI.
O truque pra ficar positivo no SF6 é usar o drive rush. Toda move que vc usa no drive rush ganha uns +4 frames de vantagem em hit e block, então um medium punch q te deixaria -3 vc fica +1, podendo continuar a pressão depois. Se vc quer ficar positivo meio q tem q gastar meter, o drive rush direto do parry custa 1 barra mas o cara consegue interromper dependendo da distância e personagem, e vc cancelar um golpe no driverush é bem difícil de interromper dependendo da move q vc usar, só q custa 3 barras. Parece caro, mas vale bastante a pena pq vc continua pressionando e o cara vai ter q adivinhar se vai dar throw nessa situação.
Enfim, no modo treino se vc ir nas opções de visualização ou interface, acho q é a penúltima página, recomendo ligar o frame meter (a barrinha q aparece no video) pra vc poder ver os frames de cada move, e como elas mudam em hit/block quando vc usa o drive rush. Também tem uma opção de cancel timing (janela de cancelamento acho) q faz vc brilhar vermelho quando pode cancelar uma move em special. Se vc pode cancelar em special, também pode no DI e driverush, q já ajuda a resolver o problema q vc tava tendo.
Eu jogo de ryu também e sofro um pouco com DI, mas tem q fazer igual o cara falou, usa os botões cancelaveis pra pokear, e dependendo do timing vc consegue cancelar num DI. Não é sempre garantido com o heavy punch por exemplo, pq as vezes o DI do cara vai tarde e vc reage dps da janela de cancelamento do soco. Mas é interessante vc ver que o tempo reação mínimo é uns 15-18 frames, então uma move igual o soco pesado q tem uns 10f de startup é impossível de reagir, o cara se der DI nele é pq ele ta tacando tentando prever q vc vai usar. Se vc ver q o cara usa mt DI, a melhor opção é vc evitar usar os botões pesados e usar os mais leves, q tem recovery menor como o light kick, crouching medium kick, crouching medium punch, q todos vc pode cancelar bem fácil no DI. Até sequência de lights que vc consegue soltar 3x seguidas, facilitam mt pra reagir ao DI. Outra coisa q o frame meter ajuda também, pq vc consegue ver suas blockstring e o quanto tempo o cara fica preso em blockstun, q é o amarelinho na barra de baixo. Se tiver algum frame que não ta amarelo, quer dizer q ele pode usar DI, então as vezes vc cancelar um medium kick naquele special q dá chutão, o cara consegue tacar o DI entre o medium kick e o chutão, ai vc mama. Mas é outra coisa q é impossível de reagir, o cara tem q prever então vc pode baitar só usando o medium kick e dps fazendo nada.
Não dá pra vc jogar no piloto automático por causa disso, tem q ir vendo os padrões e ficar variando pq se vc fica previsível vai mamar pro DI o tempo inteiro.
@@10Edguy
Show obrigado pela dica.
Essa no modo treino vale ouro, eu ainda não me adaptei ao modo de treino. Por onde faço pesquisas dizem que Ryu é bom mas que é fácil de jogar contra ele acho que por isso estou sofrendo kkkk. Mas não vou desistir. O maior problema mesmo é a velocidade do jogo. Tekken tem golpe mais rápido de i10 aqui é i4. Percebi TB que não se deve pular ou apenas pular para cair nas costas do adversário, isso TB me incomoda kkkk. Tekken não existe pulo. O joga é divertido e quero aprender a jogar de forma certa. GG
Really good and informative video!
Thank you, glad it helps! Now lets get creative 😎
@@iZonkGaming2021 Sure! I love to lab this kind of things. And it's good that it's a universal mechanic and not character specific. The frame data display of this game is probably the best I've ever seen in a video game.
Niiice...;)
😎