I used to work as a dvd / early blue ray encoder for a media company in London. And some of the naughty short cuts I saw the BBC doing for their older Standard Def period drama movies, they would send a digibeta standard Def 720x576 resolution Master tape and ask us to upscale to HD as they wanted to make a quick buck instead of re scanning from the original rolls of film. The upscale would be done via rack mounted hardware so all processing would be done in real time, but the give away would be the Loss of detail in the distance, and on trees, and fences and hair. I couldn't believe it, as I'm a true believer of moves as a hard copy. So some of your examples of 4k discs being softer than the 1080pHD disc makes me think that the softer 4k discs are probably an upscale from a 1080p crispy film scan, the detail in the HD file is already there so an upscale to 4k would not be too difficult, they've probably added a shit load of sharpening then slapped a broadcast quality denoiser and adjusted that from scene to scene...i too personally hate noise reduction, I wood prefure to see the original film grain on a transfer (if it was originally shot on film). I also refused to buy 28 days later on Bluray as the movie was shot digital in standard definition 720x576 so the blueray again is either an upscale or a re film scan, you should be able to tell from the end scene in the movie, the 'SOS' jet scene was shot on film... So if you can see lots of detail in the distant mountains it's a re scan, if it's just mushy or soft then it's an upscale 🙄😳😇
Standard definition material on blu-ray tends to look better than it does on DVD. The BD format allows for significantly larger file sizes, which in turn allows for superior compression and overall transparency to the source master.
The Batman Begins, Jurassic Park and 3-10 To Yuma transfers were actually really good compared to a lot of awful 4K transfers I've seen. I'd definitely take those over the awful Pirates 1 and Terminator 2 transfers
Can’t talk for the others as I haven’t rewatched their 4Ks, but I will say for Batman Begins, it was substandard but not among the worst transfers I’ve seen. It still had a lot of the issues ‘classic’ WB remasters tend to have anymore, but not nearly as bad, and not nearly as often IIRC. It and many of the 4Ks I’ve seen just could’ve and should’ve been done better.
What's the guy on the left's gimmick? Does he just pretend he doesn't watch or care about film to appear cool? Maybe he was just having a bad day. 🤷🏽♂️
I think it depends on how you define worse. A lot of blurays have the wrong color timings, but people got used to seeing the movies in that way. They get corrected on a 4k and the bluray people riot. That said, in cases like heavy dnr on a 4k, the bluray can actually be objectively better.
Disney’s recent 4K UHD Cinderella (1950) is simply an amazing transfer that fixes all the issues that even the Blu Ray had. Hopefully it is a new step forward in all future classic animated titles.
Disney is the worst. To have full right to Star Wars and to not release the original trilogy with a new 4K scan with the original artwork slipcovers is a sin.
Ever heard of 4k77, 4k80, and 4k83? Fan scans of the original 3 films that were shown in theatres at the time (from collector stashes I think.) You won't get a slipcover and the file sizes are obviously going to be huge but there you go, 4k Star Wars, unfucked by unnecessary editing.
Disney recently penned a deal with Sony to handle the their physical distribution, (and Sony has a pretty good 4K track record), so I'm optimistic things will improve. Hopefully the original SW trilogy will have a proper re-release on 4K
Recent titles from Paramount that I own and have heard people complain about the transfers on are Friday the 13th and Saturday Night Fever. I think Disney intentionally puts out bad discs because they want to steer you to their streaming service.
Other than the IMAX Enhanced movies, I am yet to see anything that looks better on Disney+ versus the 4K disc. Their Atmouse mixes are notoriously lacklustre too. Little more than static 7.1 mixes in an Atmos container that lack bass and volume.
The very nature of streaming not providing the highest quality makes every disney 4k disc better than disney plus. Unless you like buffering, pixelation, and dips in quality at random moments.
Idk about the discs being intentionally bad, but last I recall the versions on Disney+ are identical to the 4K discs (with the exception on MCU movies with IMAX Enhanced). Last I recall, the Star Wars 4K releases had more changes under the request of George Lucas (Mahclunkey), so I'm pretty sure all the changes are because of him rather than Disney, and all the 4K's for Disney/Pixar films look fine. Now if we were talking about Disney making the prices high so people would rather watch it on streaming, yes that feels like something they would do.
That’s wild that you guys review all of these titles without both of you or at least one of you watching all of them. Weird format, but I guess if it works for you guys.
Paramount blurays and 4Ks don't pick up where they left off. If you pause the movie and go into the kitchen, you had better get back fast or you'll have to start the movie over again from the beginning, FBI warnings and all.
I really want them to do a 4k transfer of Dances with wolves but I am afraid it will be done on the cheap and they do a bad job. Its one of my favorite films of all time.
I could see Arrow taking that on. Seeing as they have recently released Robin Hood, a new 4K of Waterworks so maybe they will do the same with Dances With Wolves. I'd expect them to do a good job on it too.
Dude on left sounds too malleable and chill to form an opinion or offer an objective review. I’m guessing those shades are hiding some glassy eyeballs?
I remember when I didn't even know what DNR was and I got the Terminator 2 and Platoon 4k, I didn't know what was happening, people's faces were melting and no one looked quite right in most scenes. Then of course I learned what DNR was and can now detect (and despise) it in less obvious uses. But really, it says a lot about DNR that I had no clue what it was or had any reason to suspect the movies would look off, yet I could easily detect something was wrong. Thanks uncanny valley!
This was me when I saw the 4K version of Lord of the Rings in theaters. I noticed the issues that DNR would create (waxy faces, things more out of focus looking more blurry, digital film grain over the CG being erased making the effects more noticeable) and I also noticed the use of color being less effective, but I didn't know at the time that it was the result of a bad transfer and I had previously only watched them via the DVD's years prior, so I thought it was an issue with the way the movie was made from the get-go. It made them much less engaging to the point that I rated Two Towers a 5/10 and Fellowship a 6/10. It was only until months later when I learned about the DNR and what previous verisons looked like where I made the effort to find the original theatrical and extended blu-rays from 2010/2011.
I’ll give pushback on Disney; they seem more like a mixed bag than anything. Star Wars for example: 1-3 is just…a mess, especially TPM. 4-6: 4 is decent but 5,6 are really disappointing. 7-9: literally all reference quality discs, film grain, and incredible hdr coloring.
First time watching your channel. Guy on left: "I've never watched it. I don't seem to care. What am I doing here?" Great job guys! Maybe get the 4K discs, and capture clips and do some in-depth visual analysis.
WB removing special features from discs is a big disappointment (Vacation, Enter the Dragon, Exorcist, etc). T2 is probably the worst transfer I’ve seen with the weird teal hue that permeates the whole film. Packaging can also be a significant issue (Indy Jones box set).
Technology is objective, it's not matter of opinion. The stories, aesthetics or artistry in these movies is not what we are judging here, we are judging their transfers and they are either good or bad, better or worse, period. A good transfer will be as close to the original source as possible with all its grain, virtues, or flaws presented in it, because their presence means that everything was correctly transferred. A bad one is one that messes with it, usually downgrades it by losing detail or changes the original colors and contrast. The other big thing that is messing with 4k media even if the transfer was done correctly is that many movies are being scanned from a deteriorated source or from a source that has a lower resolution and it's just digitally upscaled. Remasterization is extremely important to preserve them and it's the best way to ensure quality to the consumer, buts thats the last thing these greedy studios are willing to do. I would work for free for 3 years or more to remaster Jurassic Park to ensure it looks as good as when it first came out in glorious 35mm brand new film, but they don't think like that, they don't see legacy, they only see money, the one they will expend on that remasterization ignoring the bigger amount they will gain after is done.
This is why I don't first-day buy unless it's a reputable company with a good track record (i.e. LionsGate). I always wait for the reviews of the transfers.
Yeah I agree. Criterion, Kino Lorber, and Arrow have a consistent track record for me at this point, and I trust Warner Brothers more than other big studios because from what i've read they always do 4K scans from the original negative if they have it (sometimes 8K for some movies) unless the director says otherwise (in which case the fault can be blamed on the director).
I picked up the pirates of the caribbean in 4k cause I LOVE the franchise to death and it makes me sad. I hope there’s eventually a good 4k transfer for the films cause they deserve it
Star Wars TPM, Wizard Of Oz and Batmsn: Mask Of The Phantasm are probably the worst I’ve seen on 4K, which is a shame as they’re all great movies. They all had pretty much the same issues, too-a botched audio mixing, random shots/scenes that looked like they put an Insta blur filter on it, and then TPM had the unfortunate bonus of a chase scene in the jungle where it looked like I was watching on GBA Video-for whatever reason, that one action was compressed to Helen Bach. :/ Alternatively, as far as studios go, I actually think Paramount and Universal are the best for 4Ks. And to stick up for Disney a mo, cos they *really* need all the help they can get rn, OG Beauty And The Beast 4K was flawless AFAICT, and I’d say the same about Aladdin if it wasn’t for that censored opening song standing out more than ever. The only animated 4K I’ve seen done better than either was Prince Of Egypt, which was just, peak. 👌
Its not so much of it being a bad transfer, but more the case of not much of an upgrade from the blu ray to justify a double dip or a trilple dip in my case lol
Good on you for judging for yourself. It's a solid upgrade. Got off to a bad start when released because a youtuber with a lot of subs trashed it without really knowing better
Thank you, I get all my life advice from RUclips comments... There is a reason I wear them, but until I'm insulted properly I won't explain. I'm also wearing a hat indoors if you want to report that to your higher-ups at the fashion police department. I will say, in your quest for superiority, you watched our video and engaged with our channel, so I humbly thank you for being a customer in my sunglass-covered eyes.
The UK blu ray of Killing Zoe is the worst blu ray transfer, one were I said "the worst". It's essentially a poor quality 90's DVD transfer slapped onto blu ray. Actually the quality is so bad, it looks like a VHS on a HD TV.
Warner Home Video is pretty bad. They should give all of their budget to the Warner Archive. They run circles around WHV and it baffles me as they are under the same umbrella.
I’m confused what the host on left is contributing to this video, dude on the right is on point with technical commenting which is what we’re watching this video for. More that please
One saving grace for T2 in 4K: I'm getting it signed by Robert Patrick himself at the Armageddon Expo in New Zealand, on June 16th. :) . It will soon become my most valuable 4K movie.
Pan's Labyrinth on 4K Blu-ray is really bad. The original US Blu-ray VC-1 is bad, the European VC-1 29 Mbps with 7.1 surround is amazing, my favorite release. The US Criterion is OK in my opinion, the 4K release is bad, the image is soft with denoise and the sound is 5.1.
Thanks for the info. I was considering upgrading to 4K for some of the movies you reviewed (STAR WARS, TERMINATOR, PIRATES...) but now you saved me from a lot of disappointment & I'll stick to what I have (DVD & BLU-RAY Versions). I'm looking to get the up-coming: TO LIVE & DIE IN L.A. & I would like to see your review before I commit to the Blu-Ray or 4k version.
Hey if you guys want me to take pictures of A & B from my 35mm print & 4k of fellowship …. 9 out 10 Blu rays & most physical releases rarely nail the OG negatives … most of these restored & remasters are people in post taking liberties… the job of people doing the work is to restore how the original or as closely to it… you can only make some thing look so good..
Nicely put together video guys. I've seen some of the 4K's on the "bad" list. For the most part, Pirates Of The Caribbean was fine. I think it's the most natural colour pallette over the DVD and BD which were both created from the same master. But they seriously messed up the compression on the 4K causing details to dissappear. I don't think it's anything to do with DNR. I've done a video on my channel called "Is Blu-ray Lying To Us?" talking about how the Blu-ray image has lied to us for 15 years. Showing how colours were boosted to help exaggerate fine detail and now the colours have been corrected again the detail levels are back to normal. I think this is also why people claim excessive DNR or scrubbing. I did 3 image poles on my community page for Curse Of The Black Pearl, asking "which image was most Filmic? The 4K image won. For Heat I asked "Which do you prefer?" They chose the DVD Image. And for Saving Private Ryan I asked "Which image looked worse?" They voted the DVD with the 4K being best. 4K images will always look darker with there being billions more colours available for the image compared to how many are available for BD I've also got a video called Don't Compere Blu-ray and 4K Unless... This is also where so many people mess up. Also TV/Projector picture settings will massively affect any image if not set correctly. Take it easy Trevor
Paramount has definitely messed up some releases but they also put out some really nice ones too. Top Gun: Maverick, Dragonslayer and the work they did on the Star Trek Next Gen box set for example were great. Some of the best looking titles in my collection.
Paramount got me with both 48 Hrs. And Flashdance… hella irritating. I have Frankenstein copies now - paramount presents box with the 4K inside, maybe including the BD if there’s no features on the 4K disc. Irritating… Disney’s soundtracks continue to disappoint but frustratingly enough, I keep buying them because I like the movies. Here’s hoping they don’t ruin Avatar or the eventual release of The Abyss.
That was the first time they put out a Paramount Presents 4K disc. As soon as I saw that I knew it was only going to be downhill from here on the double dips
Definitely ‘Giant’, I reckon is the worst 4K I’ve ever seen. The studio mustn’t have had a good enough print to scan in the first place. It’s pretty much as bad as the Blu-ray.
There's a movie called "Kin." I watched on digital 1080p and it was fine. Unfortunately, I bought it on 4K and it's worse than "Forrest Gump." It is the worst 4K I've seen.
The 2015 T2 Blu-ray is the only decent release! I would add star wars OG trilogy 4k releases too because they are just DNR crazy and Frankensteined. 4k77 is the best way to watch the film! Disney & Paramount just don't care about releases! 💀
I own both on 4K, but I had never owned them previously so I wasn't sure what I was getting. I think they both look great, but haven't seen the other releases to compare.
Most release says 4k but they don’t have HDR so it’s a cheap transfer or they don’t have Dolby atmos or Dolby vision I bought SALT and it was the worst a lot of snow
Batman Begins always did look more orange/copper in the theaters. DVD it seemed dialed back to me. Pixar films are all in 2k masters like most films now and animated films in general since film went bye bye
I actually liked the Jurassic Park release in 4K. The DVD didn't have the resolution and the bluray had distracting amounts of noise in the dark scenes. The 4K disc fixed both, so I'm happy.
What is the worst is more challenging to assess than it appears. The caveat is the equipment end of the equation. The 4K experience depends on what kind of flat screen is being used, how good the HDMI cable is or not and, of course, the quality and performance of the 4K player and whether the settings on the player have been optimized or not. Better [more expensive] components will invariably yield different and better results when it comes down to it.
There is nothing waxy about T2, if your colour temp is very warm I can understand it looking fake. It is the cleanest version that's been released, complaining about colour palette being cool yet the same people love Drive 4k by second sight which is very cool and the same as the Blu ray but massively praise it and spend stupid money on the boxset for an extremely minor upgrade over the Blu ray and that's only for resolution. Goodfellas, again, it was filmed to look old nothing can be done about that, the way HDR was used I thought was great. The colour palette was faithful for the type of film and era. Detail was fantastic. Generally the hypocrisy and contradictions in this space are something out of the ordinary.
I saw this too. Looks like an excuse to sell discs and throw some memorabilia and a hard box at us, but I doubt they're doing anything different for the transfer.
Color Of Money blu ray is definitely a terrible transfer. It’s blurry . The person who did the transfer messed it up hugely. The dvd actually looks better.
its a shame that disney 4k sucks really bad. ive been recently buying 4k films, and i really hate disney right now for other reasons. but to add the cherry on top, and let them have some of my cash for 4k movies, they do not offer a single movie i would like to own that the 4k release looks better. im sitting here blu rays in my cart debating even buying them. i wish disney would stop wasting there time on crap and focus on something positive and dump money into making proper 4k releases of their animated films. in fact i saw a goofy movie 4k remaster mini doc on youtube where it looks amazing and im wondering why disney is that bad. i want that 4k goofy movie, but disney is so far up its own ass with whatever they cant smell the roses anyways
The recent 4K of True Lies, 4K of Aliens, 4K of American Graffiti, 4K of Platoon and 4K of Love Actually are all awful. Full of DNR. True Lies and Aliens on 4K hurts the most since those got A.I. upscaling. American Graffiti hasn't looked that good since DVD. Duel from 1971 and Titanic from 1997 are two more 4K upscaling A.I. messes. The Accountant on 4K back in 2017 is also another disappointment. Same goes for the 1950s War of the Worlds on 4K by Paramount. I'll update more bad 4Ks on another comment some other day.
The Bourne Indentity (first film only) 4k is one of the worst transfers ever. I had to shut it off and put on the bluray. The other films 4k transfer in the set are ok at best. But the first film being so bad is unforgivable.. Now Terminator 2 transfer.. Cameron's excuses are full of you know what. He could fix it very easy. He is just lazy about it.. I wanted to buy Pirates set but I the reviews are so bad and Disney does not support physical media..
I have the 2017 4K release of T2 fortunately. Looks great. I heard people talk about an AI enhanced version and was like WTF are they on about then saw that there was a release in 2021 of it.
I thought Jurassic Park looked amazing myself. I get that it has heavy DNR, but I thought it looked phenomenal on my system. Batman Begins was super disappointing. LOTR also looks phenomenal to me, but I'm a casual fan of the franchise at best
My problem with 4k is the disks damage easier than blu ray. I’m careful and still manage to get a scratch here and there. Probably more of a player issue….P5, XBOX X, TOSHIBA players
Terminator 2 is very polarising but I wouldn't say only a minority liked it. Seems to be about half and half... For me, the worst ones are Weird Science and Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves
Terminator 2 is the king of failed editions, one worse than the other and the last one is one of the worst, not only because of the wax textures and because they mistakenly used a master that was for 3D cinema, but also because of that green tint What they added to the image that bothers me, because that's not what the original was like, it was a bluish tone. We know that there is no one that is definitive but which of all the editions is the most redeemable in quality within that universe of bad editions? I have been told about the Lionsgate 2015 edition, which preserves the original bluish tone and grain, or is there another superior one?
People who say the first pirates is the best are fools. Its just a bunch of people who jump on the same bandwagon who said return of The jedi was bad. 2 and 3 are better. Comedy is better. Action is better. Story is better.
@@4K_Kings The early Universal Studios releases that included King Kong and Robin Hood were disappointing. That was when they made the HDR too excessive, made the blacks too dark, the whites too white, and the oranges too hot.
My issue with paramount is their inconsistency. Some of their 4Ks they hit it out of the park, and others are mediocre. As or T2, I don't think it was as bad as everyone made it out to be. Could it have been better? Absolutely. But I wouldn't call it unwatchable. My issue with it is that the 4K is the theatrical version and the special edition is on bluray. As for my worse 4K (I may et flamed for this) is Gemini Man. I HATE HFR! It makes a movie look so fake. I will never watch that 4K again! The bluray was SO MUCH better to watch. But that is just me. That is why I thought Avatar 2 looked better at home than in theater, because it had standard frame rate compared to the variable frame rate at the theater.
Accepting a lousy transfer because it comes in a cool box blows my mind. Like, really?
@@purplemicrodot58 yeah it's ridiculous logic
I guess that was the sign to close the video
@@purplemicrodot58 clearly the guy on the left is just a “collector” not really a film fan
I used to work as a dvd / early blue ray encoder for a media company in London. And some of the naughty short cuts I saw the BBC doing for their older Standard Def period drama movies, they would send a digibeta standard Def 720x576 resolution Master tape and ask us to upscale to HD as they wanted to make a quick buck instead of re scanning from the original rolls of film. The upscale would be done via rack mounted hardware so all processing would be done in real time, but the give away would be the Loss of detail in the distance, and on trees, and fences and hair. I couldn't believe it, as I'm a true believer of moves as a hard copy. So some of your examples of 4k discs being softer than the 1080pHD disc makes me think that the softer 4k discs are probably an upscale from a 1080p crispy film scan, the detail in the HD file is already there so an upscale to 4k would not be too difficult, they've probably added a shit load of sharpening then slapped a broadcast quality denoiser and adjusted that from scene to scene...i too personally hate noise reduction, I wood prefure to see the original film grain on a transfer (if it was originally shot on film). I also refused to buy 28 days later on Bluray as the movie was shot digital in standard definition 720x576 so the blueray again is either an upscale or a re film scan, you should be able to tell from the end scene in the movie, the 'SOS' jet scene was shot on film... So if you can see lots of detail in the distant mountains it's a re scan, if it's just mushy or soft then it's an upscale 🙄😳😇
Wow, thanks for that info!
Standard definition material on blu-ray tends to look better than it does on DVD. The BD format allows for significantly larger file sizes, which in turn allows for superior compression and overall transparency to the source master.
That is very lazy of the BBC! Thanks for the info. Was ''Faulty Towers'' upscaled real time also?
@@sem_skywalker we never worked on faulty towers dvd transfer.
The Batman Begins, Jurassic Park and 3-10 To Yuma transfers were actually really good compared to a lot of awful 4K transfers I've seen. I'd definitely take those over the awful Pirates 1 and Terminator 2 transfers
@@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r don’t forget SALT it was a terrible transfer,I wonder if we can sue for lying ?
Can’t talk for the others as I haven’t rewatched their 4Ks, but I will say for Batman Begins, it was substandard but not among the worst transfers I’ve seen. It still had a lot of the issues ‘classic’ WB remasters tend to have anymore, but not nearly as bad, and not nearly as often IIRC. It and many of the 4Ks I’ve seen just could’ve and should’ve been done better.
What's the guy on the left's gimmick? Does he just pretend he doesn't watch or care about film to appear cool? Maybe he was just having a bad day. 🤷🏽♂️
For me it’s when the 4K version looks worse then the Blu Ray version then you gone and botched the transfer.
I think it depends on how you define worse. A lot of blurays have the wrong color timings, but people got used to seeing the movies in that way. They get corrected on a 4k and the bluray people riot. That said, in cases like heavy dnr on a 4k, the bluray can actually be objectively better.
What I wish is that they would use the original movie poster art for the cover.
Always a plus and it literally requires no effort.
Disney’s recent 4K UHD Cinderella (1950) is simply an amazing transfer that fixes all the issues that even the Blu Ray had. Hopefully it is a new step forward in all future classic animated titles.
Disney is the worst. To have full right to Star Wars and to not release the original trilogy with a new 4K scan with the original artwork slipcovers is a sin.
Ever heard of 4k77, 4k80, and 4k83? Fan scans of the original 3 films that were shown in theatres at the time (from collector stashes I think.) You won't get a slipcover and the file sizes are obviously going to be huge but there you go, 4k Star Wars, unfucked by unnecessary editing.
Disney recently penned a deal with Sony to handle the their physical distribution, (and Sony has a pretty good 4K track record), so I'm optimistic things will improve. Hopefully the original SW trilogy will have a proper re-release on 4K
Recent titles from Paramount that I own and have heard people complain about the transfers on are Friday the 13th and Saturday Night Fever.
I think Disney intentionally puts out bad discs because they want to steer you to their streaming service.
Other than the IMAX Enhanced movies, I am yet to see anything that looks better on Disney+ versus the 4K disc. Their Atmouse mixes are notoriously lacklustre too. Little more than static 7.1 mixes in an Atmos container that lack bass and volume.
The very nature of streaming not providing the highest quality makes every disney 4k disc better than disney plus.
Unless you like buffering, pixelation, and dips in quality at random moments.
Idk about the discs being intentionally bad, but last I recall the versions on Disney+ are identical to the 4K discs (with the exception on MCU movies with IMAX Enhanced). Last I recall, the Star Wars 4K releases had more changes under the request of George Lucas (Mahclunkey), so I'm pretty sure all the changes are because of him rather than Disney, and all the 4K's for Disney/Pixar films look fine.
Now if we were talking about Disney making the prices high so people would rather watch it on streaming, yes that feels like something they would do.
It's pretty well known by now but the T2 Blu-ray used the wrong master, it actually used a master created specifically for the film's 3D re-release.
That’s wild that you guys review all of these titles without both of you or at least one of you watching all of them. Weird format, but I guess if it works for you guys.
Paramount blurays and 4Ks don't pick up where they left off. If you pause the movie and go into the kitchen, you had better get back fast or you'll have to start the movie over again from the beginning, FBI warnings and all.
Wow, Im not sure I picked up on that. That sucks!
@@4K_Kings It does indeed!
I really want them to do a 4k transfer of Dances with wolves but I am afraid it will be done on the cheap and they do a bad job. Its one of my favorite films of all time.
I could see Arrow taking that on. Seeing as they have recently released Robin Hood, a new 4K of Waterworks so maybe they will do the same with Dances With Wolves. I'd expect them to do a good job on it too.
@@halcyondaystunes *Waterworld
A quality OLED paired with high end 4K player makes up for ALOT of the flaws in these releases
Dude on left sounds too malleable and chill to form an opinion or offer an objective review. I’m guessing those shades are hiding some glassy eyeballs?
Insane take from the guy on the left 😂
I remember when I didn't even know what DNR was and I got the Terminator 2 and Platoon 4k, I didn't know what was happening, people's faces were melting and no one looked quite right in most scenes. Then of course I learned what DNR was and can now detect (and despise) it in less obvious uses. But really, it says a lot about DNR that I had no clue what it was or had any reason to suspect the movies would look off, yet I could easily detect something was wrong. Thanks uncanny valley!
Dnr has been used way before 4k
This was me when I saw the 4K version of Lord of the Rings in theaters. I noticed the issues that DNR would create (waxy faces, things more out of focus looking more blurry, digital film grain over the CG being erased making the effects more noticeable) and I also noticed the use of color being less effective, but I didn't know at the time that it was the result of a bad transfer and I had previously only watched them via the DVD's years prior, so I thought it was an issue with the way the movie was made from the get-go. It made them much less engaging to the point that I rated Two Towers a 5/10 and Fellowship a 6/10. It was only until months later when I learned about the DNR and what previous verisons looked like where I made the effort to find the original theatrical and extended blu-rays from 2010/2011.
Russ must have a serious sensitivity to light. I feel for you bruv
I’ll give pushback on Disney; they seem more like a mixed bag than anything.
Star Wars for example: 1-3 is just…a mess, especially TPM. 4-6: 4 is decent but 5,6 are really disappointing. 7-9: literally all reference quality discs, film grain, and incredible hdr coloring.
First time watching your channel.
Guy on left: "I've never watched it. I don't seem to care. What am I doing here?" Great job guys!
Maybe get the 4K discs, and capture clips and do some in-depth visual analysis.
Bourne Identity 4K looks like an upscaled DVD
I'm so sad for the Bourne fans.
WB removing special features from discs is a big disappointment (Vacation, Enter the Dragon, Exorcist, etc). T2 is probably the worst transfer I’ve seen with the weird teal hue that permeates the whole film. Packaging can also be a significant issue (Indy Jones box set).
I'm actually surprised people don't like the Lord of the Rings 4K. They're the 4Ks that got me into Collecting 4K physical media.
Wow, really? I'm a huge fan of the films, and I'm completely satisfied with the 4K release.
Because of revisionist excessive use of DNR wiping away virtually almost all film grain. That’s why people hate them.
Some scenes are worse than others regarding the waxy faces. Otherwise though, it's a phenomenal looking and sound transfer.
Yeah.. they did take the film grade away.. so people who watch TV series don`t care. Movie fans are terrified.
4k were better than the bluray releases, blurays had that green/blue tint. 4k has none of that garbage.
Technology is objective, it's not matter of opinion. The stories, aesthetics or artistry in these movies is not what we are judging here, we are judging their transfers and they are either good or bad, better or worse, period. A good transfer will be as close to the original source as possible with all its grain, virtues, or flaws presented in it, because their presence means that everything was correctly transferred. A bad one is one that messes with it, usually downgrades it by losing detail or changes the original colors and contrast. The other big thing that is messing with 4k media even if the transfer was done correctly is that many movies are being scanned from a deteriorated source or from a source that has a lower resolution and it's just digitally upscaled. Remasterization is extremely important to preserve them and it's the best way to ensure quality to the consumer, buts thats the last thing these greedy studios are willing to do. I would work for free for 3 years or more to remaster Jurassic Park to ensure it looks as good as when it first came out in glorious 35mm brand new film, but they don't think like that, they don't see legacy, they only see money, the one they will expend on that remasterization ignoring the bigger amount they will gain after is done.
I gotta say WB is pretty good. I do 3rd part QC for them and they still love physical media. They were the very last to give up on 3D.
The movie clip inserts are fantastic you guys 😂
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
This is why I don't first-day buy unless it's a reputable company with a good track record (i.e. LionsGate). I always wait for the reviews of the transfers.
Yeah I agree. Criterion, Kino Lorber, and Arrow have a consistent track record for me at this point, and I trust Warner Brothers more than other big studios because from what i've read they always do 4K scans from the original negative if they have it (sometimes 8K for some movies) unless the director says otherwise (in which case the fault can be blamed on the director).
I picked up the pirates of the caribbean in 4k cause I LOVE the franchise to death and it makes me sad. I hope there’s eventually a good 4k transfer for the films cause they deserve it
I got T2 shipped from California to Scotland for $3.99, which was about £2.50 then. Still feels like I was ripped off.
Star Wars TPM, Wizard Of Oz and Batmsn: Mask Of The Phantasm are probably the worst I’ve seen on 4K, which is a shame as they’re all great movies. They all had pretty much the same issues, too-a botched audio mixing, random shots/scenes that looked like they put an Insta blur filter on it, and then TPM had the unfortunate bonus of a chase scene in the jungle where it looked like I was watching on GBA Video-for whatever reason, that one action was compressed to Helen Bach. :/
Alternatively, as far as studios go, I actually think Paramount and Universal are the best for 4Ks. And to stick up for Disney a mo, cos they *really* need all the help they can get rn, OG Beauty And The Beast 4K was flawless AFAICT, and I’d say the same about Aladdin if it wasn’t for that censored opening song standing out more than ever. The only animated 4K I’ve seen done better than either was Prince Of Egypt, which was just, peak. 👌
I like my original laserdisc of the original unedited Star Wars.
Its not so much of it being a bad transfer, but more the case of not much of an upgrade from the blu ray to justify a double dip or a trilple dip in my case lol
Right on with the eye exam! I'm mid 30s now and didn't realize how much I wasn't seeing until I got some lenses prescribed.
thank you for filming in IMAX aspect ratio and not charging us extra.
Inglourious Basterds always gets dumped on and idk why; I took a chance, bought it, and it looks really good.
I saw that come up a few times. I agree though, I looked at the screenshots and thought it looked fine.
Good on you for judging for yourself. It's a solid upgrade. Got off to a bad start when released because a youtuber with a lot of subs trashed it without really knowing better
Never trust a man who wears sunglasses indoors.
Thank you, I get all my life advice from RUclips comments...
There is a reason I wear them, but until I'm insulted properly I won't explain. I'm also wearing a hat indoors if you want to report that to your higher-ups at the fashion police department.
I will say, in your quest for superiority, you watched our video and engaged with our channel, so I humbly thank you for being a customer in my sunglass-covered eyes.
SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER 4k is crap. That sound does not sound like a disco soundtrack should sound.
The labyrinth has a terrible film stock so it will never look good!
Russ is my dude now w the Forrest Gump hate. Never seen it, never will. #PulpFictionWasROBBED
still hoping a boutique label will do a proper gremlins 4k release
I would adore Gremlins 2 from Arrow or even VS, but yes, both deserve respectable releases.
Gremlins looks great on 4K!
The UK blu ray of Killing Zoe is the worst blu ray transfer, one were I said "the worst". It's essentially a poor quality 90's DVD transfer slapped onto blu ray. Actually the quality is so bad, it looks like a VHS on a HD TV.
Is it worse than the one eyed jacks release (prior to criterion) or The Osterman Weekend?
I just knew that T2 was going to top the list and you won't get a argument from me
Give me grain not DNR
Warner Home Video is pretty bad. They should give all of their budget to the Warner Archive. They run circles around WHV and it baffles me as they are under the same umbrella.
I’m confused what the host on left is contributing to this video, dude on the right is on point with technical commenting which is what we’re watching this video for. More that please
I'm subscribing just because they ended the video with "Stay healthy out there" HILARIOUS.
Thanks for watching!
One saving grace for T2 in 4K: I'm getting it signed by Robert Patrick himself at the Armageddon Expo in New Zealand, on June 16th. :) . It will soon become my most valuable 4K movie.
I agree on the Paramount & Disney.. Keep getting upset each disc & dont know what to expect from them 😂
Props on the DJ Harvey shirt. 😀
Pan's Labyrinth on 4K Blu-ray is really bad. The original US Blu-ray VC-1 is bad, the European VC-1 29 Mbps with 7.1 surround is amazing, my favorite release. The US Criterion is OK in my opinion, the 4K release is bad, the image is soft with denoise and the sound is 5.1.
That's terrible to hear. I don't own that movie in 4K, but was hoping criterion would double dip on us. Sounds like it's needed
Thanks for the info. I was considering upgrading to 4K for some of the movies you reviewed (STAR WARS, TERMINATOR, PIRATES...) but now you saved me from a lot of disappointment & I'll stick to what I have (DVD & BLU-RAY Versions). I'm looking to get the up-coming: TO LIVE & DIE IN L.A. & I would like to see your review before I commit to the Blu-Ray or 4k version.
Hey if you guys want me to take pictures of A & B from my 35mm print & 4k of fellowship …. 9 out 10 Blu rays & most physical releases rarely nail the OG negatives … most of these restored & remasters are people in post taking liberties… the job of people doing the work is to restore how the original or as closely to it… you can only make some thing look so good..
Love that PJ Harvey shirt!
Got to see her in Detroit a few years back.
Had Mick Harvey from the Bad Seeds with her.
Great show.
Nicely put together video guys.
I've seen some of the 4K's on the "bad" list.
For the most part, Pirates Of The Caribbean was fine. I think it's the most natural colour pallette over the DVD and BD which were both created from the same master. But they seriously messed up the compression on the 4K causing details to dissappear. I don't think it's anything to do with DNR.
I've done a video on my channel called "Is Blu-ray Lying To Us?" talking about how the Blu-ray image has lied to us for 15 years. Showing how colours were boosted to help exaggerate fine detail and now the colours have been corrected again the detail levels are back to normal. I think this is also why people claim excessive DNR or scrubbing.
I did 3 image poles on my community page for Curse Of The Black Pearl, asking "which image was most Filmic? The 4K image won.
For Heat I asked "Which do you prefer?" They chose the DVD Image.
And for Saving Private Ryan I asked "Which image looked worse?" They voted the DVD with the 4K being best.
4K images will always look darker with there being billions more colours available for the image compared to how many are available for BD
I've also got a video called Don't Compere Blu-ray and 4K Unless...
This is also where so many people mess up.
Also TV/Projector picture settings will massively affect any image if not set correctly.
Take it easy
Trevor
3:10 to Yuma looks great to me
Paramount has definitely messed up some releases but they also put out some really nice ones too. Top Gun: Maverick, Dragonslayer and the work they did on the Star Trek Next Gen box set for example were great. Some of the best looking titles in my collection.
What's with the inconsistency?
Is the dude with the sunglasses awake? Seems not very interested in this video
Paramount got me with both 48 Hrs. And Flashdance… hella irritating. I have Frankenstein copies now - paramount presents box with the 4K inside, maybe including the BD if there’s no features on the 4K disc. Irritating… Disney’s soundtracks continue to disappoint but frustratingly enough, I keep buying them because I like the movies. Here’s hoping they don’t ruin Avatar or the eventual release of The Abyss.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the Abyss...
It may be Paramount Presents but I did enjoy The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance 4K.
That was the first time they put out a Paramount Presents 4K disc. As soon as I saw that I knew it was only going to be downhill from here on the double dips
Definitely ‘Giant’, I reckon is the worst 4K I’ve ever seen. The studio mustn’t have had a good enough print to scan in the first place. It’s pretty much as bad as the Blu-ray.
Not bad but I wanted more is how I felt about the pulp fiction transfer
There's a movie called "Kin." I watched on digital 1080p and it was fine. Unfortunately, I bought it on 4K and it's worse than "Forrest Gump." It is the worst 4K I've seen.
9:31 - That's the best joke right there. lol
Blu-ray of Star Wars and pirates looks better I don’t know why. T2 I only don’t like the changes
The 2015 T2 Blu-ray is the only decent release! I would add star wars OG trilogy 4k releases too because they are just DNR crazy and Frankensteined. 4k77 is the best way to watch the film! Disney & Paramount just don't care about releases! 💀
‘Nobody’ has got to be up there with one of the worst ever transfers.
Really? What happened?
No wth. Get a better tv or set of eyes
Braveheart and Gladiator come to mind ... absolutely not worth the upgrades. These epic visual movies should look stunning.
I own both on 4K, but I had never owned them previously so I wasn't sure what I was getting. I think they both look great, but haven't seen the other releases to compare.
Huh? It’s generally agreed that Braveheart and Gladiator look gorgeous on 4K, because they do.
I've got Gladiator and I thought it looked alright.
My top 4k movies that i got for 2023 was
Bloodsport 4k
Ronin 4k
Point break 4k
Face off 4k
Watching 4k movies with sunglasses would be difficult to gauge the difference between a VHS release.
Most release says 4k but they don’t have HDR so it’s a cheap transfer or they don’t have Dolby atmos or Dolby vision I bought SALT and it was the worst a lot of snow
The MMA movie Warrior has to be the worst for a modern movie!!!
That's a shame, cause I really enjoy that movie.
Batman Begins always did look more orange/copper in the theaters. DVD it seemed dialed back to me. Pixar films are all in 2k masters like most films now and animated films in general since film went bye bye
5:45 spot on guy, spot on!
I actually liked the Jurassic Park release in 4K. The DVD didn't have the resolution and the bluray had distracting amounts of noise in the dark scenes. The 4K disc fixed both, so I'm happy.
Maybe blue ray is still the best
What is the worst is more challenging to assess than it appears. The caveat is the equipment end of the equation. The 4K experience depends on what kind of flat screen is being used, how good the HDMI cable is or not and, of course, the quality and performance of the 4K player and whether the settings on the player have been optimized or not. Better [more expensive] components will invariably yield different and better results when it comes down to it.
There is nothing waxy about T2, if your colour temp is very warm I can understand it looking fake. It is the cleanest version that's been released, complaining about colour palette being cool yet the same people love Drive 4k by second sight which is very cool and the same as the Blu ray but massively praise it and spend stupid money on the boxset for an extremely minor upgrade over the Blu ray and that's only for resolution.
Goodfellas, again, it was filmed to look old nothing can be done about that, the way HDR was used I thought was great. The colour palette was faithful for the type of film and era. Detail was fantastic. Generally the hypocrisy and contradictions in this space are something out of the ordinary.
Jurassic Park 4k, Collectors edition coming soon, Wonder what the Transfer is like?
I saw this too. Looks like an excuse to sell discs and throw some memorabilia and a hard box at us, but I doubt they're doing anything different for the transfer.
Color Of Money blu ray is definitely a terrible transfer. It’s blurry . The person who did the transfer messed it up hugely. The dvd actually looks better.
Could it be in the way that you used it?
its a shame that disney 4k sucks really bad. ive been recently buying 4k films, and i really hate disney right now for other reasons. but to add the cherry on top, and let them have some of my cash for 4k movies, they do not offer a single movie i would like to own that the 4k release looks better. im sitting here blu rays in my cart debating even buying them. i wish disney would stop wasting there time on crap and focus on something positive and dump money into making proper 4k releases of their animated films. in fact i saw a goofy movie 4k remaster mini doc on youtube where it looks amazing and im wondering why disney is that bad. i want that 4k goofy movie, but disney is so far up its own ass with whatever they cant smell the roses anyways
Yeah LOTR has some DNR, but it's not as bad as people say. There's some waxyness, but it's passable. It mostly looks and sounds outstanding.
The recent 4K of True Lies, 4K of Aliens, 4K of American Graffiti, 4K of Platoon and 4K of Love Actually are all awful. Full of DNR. True Lies and Aliens on 4K hurts the most since those got A.I. upscaling. American Graffiti hasn't looked that good since DVD. Duel from 1971 and Titanic from 1997 are two more 4K upscaling A.I. messes.
The Accountant on 4K back in 2017 is also another disappointment. Same goes for the 1950s War of the Worlds on 4K by Paramount. I'll update more bad 4Ks on another comment some other day.
The Bourne Indentity (first film only) 4k is one of the worst transfers ever. I had to shut it off and put on the bluray. The other films 4k transfer in the set are ok at best. But the first film being so bad is unforgivable.. Now Terminator 2 transfer.. Cameron's excuses are full of you know what. He could fix it very easy. He is just lazy about it.. I wanted to buy Pirates set but I the reviews are so bad and Disney does not support physical media..
T2 4k I watched on the weekend. Not once did I think it looked bad in anyway.
Forrest Gump looks great in 4k, but yeah that 3:10 to Yuma 4k is quite blurry
I remember watching Inception 4k and not really being able to tell the difference from my bluray disc. Maybe its me lol
Cool guy with cool sunglasses indoors adds zero value to the topic. Hard pass on this channel until it’s minus one Russ.
I have the 2017 4K release of T2 fortunately. Looks great. I heard people talk about an AI enhanced version and was like WTF are they on about then saw that there was a release in 2021 of it.
When it comes to bad transfers, you guys definitely have to mention the "Platoon" 4K. The worst transfer I have seen so far.
Agreed. Oversight on our part, not to mention I own the terrible 4K
I thought Jurassic Park looked amazing myself. I get that it has heavy DNR, but I thought it looked phenomenal on my system. Batman Begins was super disappointing. LOTR also looks phenomenal to me, but I'm a casual fan of the franchise at best
JP is messy, but I just love T2.
My problem with 4k is the disks damage easier than blu ray. I’m careful and still manage to get a scratch here and there. Probably more of a player issue….P5, XBOX X, TOSHIBA players
Terminator 2 is very polarising but I wouldn't say only a minority liked it. Seems to be about half and half...
For me, the worst ones are Weird Science and Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves
Terminator 2 is the king of failed editions, one worse than the other and the last one is one of the worst, not only because of the wax textures and because they mistakenly used a master that was for 3D cinema, but also because of that green tint What they added to the image that bothers me, because that's not what the original was like, it was a bluish tone. We know that there is no one that is definitive but which of all the editions is the most redeemable in quality within that universe of bad editions? I have been told about the Lionsgate 2015 edition, which preserves the original bluish tone and grain, or is there another superior one?
Disney releasing the Avatar 4k's without Dolby Vision is just terrible
People who say the first pirates is the best are fools. Its just a bunch of people who jump on the same bandwagon who said return of The jedi was bad. 2 and 3 are better. Comedy is better. Action is better. Story is better.
Would have been nice if you'd watched the releases you're talking about.
This list is mostly correct. Also, my vision needs correction because of old age.
Which 4Ks were you disappointed by? And yes, check your eyes! Otherwise what's all this extra clarity for?
@@4K_Kings Sonyʼs 4K transfer of District 9 had a looping issue in one scene, so that was disappointing.
@@4K_Kings The early Universal Studios releases that included King Kong and Robin Hood were disappointing. That was when they made the HDR too excessive, made the blacks too dark, the whites too white, and the oranges too hot.
Did Arrow fix those issues on their release of Robin Hood?
@@4K_Kings I was referring to the Ridley Scott / Russell Crowe Robin Hood
I'm so glad I don't do 4k. lol
My issue with paramount is their inconsistency. Some of their 4Ks they hit it out of the park, and others are mediocre. As or T2, I don't think it was as bad as everyone made it out to be. Could it have been better? Absolutely. But I wouldn't call it unwatchable. My issue with it is that the 4K is the theatrical version and the special edition is on bluray. As for my worse 4K (I may et flamed for this) is Gemini Man. I HATE HFR! It makes a movie look so fake. I will never watch that 4K again! The bluray was SO MUCH better to watch. But that is just me. That is why I thought Avatar 2 looked better at home than in theater, because it had standard frame rate compared to the variable frame rate at the theater.
i'VE HAD A LOT OF bad 4K & Blu-ray discs where the regular DVD's were better.
Which DVDs were better than the 4K?