Because, like most western franchises, they also jumped their respective sharks, losing that edge in exchange for mainstream appeal. (Or in Yakuza's case, went back in time to be awesome and then went back to being mid.) Case in point, he mentioned difficulty - P3 really wasn't balanced at it's core for all the modern battle mechanics (like absolute control over your team), and it shows in P3R.
"Painkiller" also won him over, memory serves. Semi-related sidenotes, "Duke Nukem Forever" and "Hunt Down the Freeman" also managed to seriously drag down his mood.
I love that the game feels the need to show you that there's a rare chest or a shadow on the floor, followed by the navigator telling you that there's a rare chest or shadow on the floor.
And an objective on your HUD to find the rare chest or shadow on the floor. And a marker on the minimap telling you the location of a rare chest or shadow on the floor. And as your approach it, one of your party members chiming in to talk about the rare chest or shadow right there. I don't know about you, but I'm starting to think there might be a rare chest or shadow on the floor.
Honestly I like that. Last time I played P3 on emulator I spent hours searching floors to see if a rare anything spawned. It would have gone faster if i could just load the area and if i didn't get the message reload the save state
@@glenngriffon8032 I agree with the thought process, but sadly, they have now exchanged searching for Rare Chests with hunting for Twilight Fragments, at least for me.
Back in 2009 I did a webcomic called Persona 3 FTW and I drew all of the Hermit Social Link comics in reference to the old ZP style. That's much funnier to me knowing that Yahtzee is a Persona fan now.
I was still left a little uncomfortable where that was coming from, but then I remembered he'd just admitted to playing over 30 hours of Overly-Sexualized Underly-Aged Mindfuck Anime: The Video Game; pt. 3: Now In HD. So there's that ...
i didn't know it was possible for Yahtzee to become more inappropriate but we seem to be reaching new heights with fully ramblomatic now and I'm all for it
That's what happens when you cast off the corporate shackles restricting your creativity. Or algorithm shackles, I guess, being largely a patreon funded channel.
@@danielgrezda3339 My wife and I both loved P5, recently finished P4 and loved it, then both got the flu and were like... well! No better time to pay full price for a video game I guess!
@@sarahnagy9300 It's not that this game is not worth full price, but usually I buy a bunch games on sale, and play them and if there is a cool new release I can just play my other games and wait. I have the other games on switch and will buy the game if it's on switch 2 with the answer like some leakers have said will happen.
Oh yeah, not that I think about it pretty much every ZP/FR video of his that I've watched is either of a game I have never played, or very rarely, a game that I've already completed.
Ah, back in the early ZP days Yahtzee commented how unthinkable it would be for him to review a Persona game. These days P5 gets namedropped in almost every other video
Remember back when he reviewed Catherine and he had such a massive misunderstanding of the Persona series that he assumed Persona 4 took place in a dream world?
Not even restricted to P3 either, Danganronpa is well known for having brutal execution scenes paired with some absolutely fresh beats to go with it lol. Stylistic dichotomy is kinda the goal with both of them in my opinion.
This “tonal dissonance” that P3 had was mostly just the fact that it still had a lot of old Persona/SMT DNA in its soul. P2 has a dungeon where you fight your way through waves of literal Nazi soldiers just to then have the game talk about how one of the teen girl party members sells herself and does drugs.
P3 for me has always had the better team, a group of different individuals becoming a team over time, people in said world aren't orbiting around you, like in the newer games where no character can have any development without your presence, rather you are a piece of this world and so the entire team have lives outside YOU.
this is entirely correct. the game makes this super clear as well, from the shadows being an already set in motion problem to party members just fucking off and not wanting to go dungeoning because their dad died or something, to the party members evolving their personas through the set story without anything to do with you. you're just the kid whose power is slightly cooler so you get to do the superficial leading
@@PotatoTortoise Honestly, that sounds lovely. I remember experiencing Octopath Traveler, and one thing that didn't bring joy was how all eight stories were so detached from each other sans the underlying mysteries and random chimes from a party member in the middle of the quest. On one hand, it makes sense to make these things personal, but on the other, it is disheartening to only imagine the reactions of some of our guys to the beats of the other's story they were definitely present for.
As someone who started with Persona 3, it still would have been nice to see an Awakening other than your own at least once. Still, I agree that it did help make the environment feel more alive since things were happening around you more rather than because of you. The story with a lot of this being instigated from events in the past also helps. You're really only there because you were the kid unlucky enough to be present when Aigis needed to shove the personification of death in a nearby soul, not because some deity thought you were special or a threat (4 and 5 respectively) It went a long way to making the environment feel alive.
That was always my favourite thing about the persona 3 cast. And after 4 and 5 where nobody can seem to help themselves without you and it’s amazing that 3 was able to stick the landing before them and do it great. Like my only issue, is that you can’t social link with everyone in your party, with the male you get the woman and in portable as the female you then get the men, which struck me as odd, but because of how the writing and story is done it still works fine because a lot of their development isn’t tied with social links so it’s a nitpick
Yeah, one of the things I like about P3 is something I thought Yahtzee might have appreciated considering how much he got annoyed with it in Zelda: you are not that special. Sure, having a Perosna at all is rare and the Wild Card is kind of a big deal, but not nearly as much as 4 or 5 where the entire world might as well revolve around you. This is further supported by the boss fights being at fixed times and the party members acting on their own (wonky as it was, damn you Marin Karin): you are NOT in control. This thing is happening with or without you.
In The Name Of The Father, The Son, And The Holy Waifu, Amen. (That could be the starting trio of party members in a JRPG, with the twist that ardent fans can't agree on whether the Holy Waifu should be the Waifu of the Son, the Father, or in some of the more "bold and taboo-breaking" fanfics, both of them.)
i absolutely love the soft spot for basically anything persona related now, the constant reminder that hes being a bit harsh and nitpicky despite its problems really makes me think this is an all timer series for yahtzee
If you ask me, missing out on important stuff off-screen is consistent with the MC's personality considering he very often has dialogue choices showing that he's pretty apathetic and often morose about things in the back of his mind. Like yeah, it probably was pretty cool and dramatic how Junpei awakened to his Persona... but why would the MC care? He barely built a rapport with him at that point and it's not like Yosuke or Ryuji where he actively had to step in and make a conscious caring choice to save them from a dangerous situation.
Exactly. Besides, their second awakenings are seen onscreen and they’re the culmination of the character’s development throughout the entire story. Those are their big moments. Those second awakenings felt more impactful than what we got in 4 and 5 imo.
I agree. It’s slow burn and I love it this way. Getting into it right away into persona 5 was fun, but this just feels like a complex, well written story
I'm disappointed to see you talking about "things happening outside the screen" as a negative. Personally I think it's Persona 3 main positive - it makes the world feel alive. One of the worst things for me in P5 was the fact that it felt like everything exists only if the main protagonist was around. People were standing around doing nothing, suspended in some sort of stasis until you arrive, not growing, not interacting with anyone else, just.. existing frozen in time. In P3 the characters evolve on their own, you see them living their lives, talking with each other, learning about each other, all while you're not there. IMO, one of the best things about P3: the world continues without you, just like the real world does.
Well said, and the same goes for Persona 3's selection of Social Links, I actually liked that many of them were relatively normal people with no connection to the main plot. The old couple running the bookstore in particular had a poignant little story that really stuck with me.
Yeah but there are just as many that boring and obnoxious. Not to mention there are plenty of S links in the other games that aren't connected to the main plot@@Arcananine77
To be honest, it didn't take 5 games for them to understand that negotiations were the tops. 1 and 2 had them and 2 had negotiations that are absolute comedy. Though in a roundabout way, you don't get the shadow/demon you were negotiating with but the arcana cards they are associated with. 3 and 4 became more direct with the cards by just giving you a chance to gain persona if you pick the right one and then 5 just straight up returned to diet recruitment from Shin Megami Tensei which I actually like better. SEES for the most part are slightly half baked if compared to 4 and 5 but counterpoint is that none of these people actually know each other with a few exceptions. People are dragged into SEES for the same reason Peter Parker becomes a superhero: "With great power comes great responsibility." Being dragged into the Dark Hour may be random chance but having enough willpower to actually overcome the call of the void is rarer. The main theme of the game is mortality. But that comes in many forms. And like the masks in 5, the evokers in 3 symbolize the lack of fear towards death. The game explores a lot of topics adjecent to the concept of death either symbolic or literal death. Death of a marriage, death of a loved one, death of a dream, etc etc. This also includes suicide which I will not be talking about as it is a massive spoiler on the overall message Persona 3 is trying to get across as Japan is one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Persona is never shy about social commentary on Japanese society.
@@nathank2289 not the protagonist. Spoiler: Aigis in Orgia Mode aka her full automation mode where she becomes relentless in pursuit of shadows caused the accident that led to the death of the protagonist's parents.
I'm just gonna add this here: Persona 3 has 2 main themes, and in the beginning only the first one is obvious but the second one becomes more apparent in the later parts of the game. That theme is Life. The protagonist is a blank slate because that's who he is after his lifetime of tragedy. Death is the obvious theme but finding the will to live on/ Your Answer to Life is the second theme of the game and the reason I absolutely love Persona 3 in all of its media adaptations. The 4th Movie got this one even better.
@@Brian-tn4cd most megaten games had negotiations. It was what the franchise started with and how the monster collecting RPG was born. 1987's Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei.
I have absolutely no idea what all this stuff that yahtzee is talking about is, and im not sure if its a good or a bad thing, but his enthusiasm would indicate that he wont cry like a anime fan on prom night.
@@kyotheman69 Why would you recommend p4 golden and skip p3 reload? makes no sense. They're all decent enough games that warrant trying out and I don't see what makes golden better than reload gameplay wise at all it's all pretty similar. The dungeon in P3 that opens up month to month is functionally the same thing as In P4 too just the pacing is slightly different.
@@kyotheman69 Persona 3 has flat out the best story, and one of the criticisms against it brought up in this video, like Junpei awakening off screen, is actually something I like. The world is alive and characters do things and without the MC being present. Hell, a lot of the characters have entire character arcs without your direct input. It makes the characters, imo, feel more like characters than just tag alongs in the MCs party.
@Steamedhams578 P3R is faithful to a fault, that's the main reason I would think. Everything - from dungeon crawling to character writing - feels far less realized compared to 4, and downright primitive to 5. Don’t get me wrong, It’s still a good game and a fantastic remake, but still - if you gotta play only one, play P5R.
I figured the evoker, glacial pace and basic nature of the game would be sticking points, still doesn't change that it's my favorite persona game but it's fun to see people riff on problems I've been aware of for almost a decade One thing I can't abide by is his interpretation of the characters, Persona 3 has some of the most grounded and realistic characters in the series
P3 will always have a special place in my heart as my first Persona game. It's just such a whiplash that most of the game is filled with standard anime antics, but the cutscenes are some of edgiest shit ever
Persona 3 is straight up amazing in a way that the later games aren't, but I do understand the rough bits turning people off. Even the Evoker was a genius move, it's introduced to the player perfectly, and just fits the themes of the game. Also the pacing of the opening isn't that bad. at least it's not five hours until you're actually in the meat of the game. I swear Reload lengthened it and it's still under an hour. Plus it actually foreshadows one of the later revelations remarkably well (Minato is not shocked or unnerved by the Dark Hour, because he's been experiencing it for up to a decade).
I love how the team comes together in Persona 3 ❤ I always liked this cast the most because they have actual reasons to hate each other but choose to work together.
Yeah that's the part of Persona 3 that I think is leaps and bounds better than 4 and 5. The party members individual storylines are woven in to the main plot well and let them have a character arc and a dynamic. While in 4 and 5 once you recruit a character they stay pretty static for the rest of the game and the only thing resembling a character arc happens in their option social link/confidant.
Something that they completely ditched in the sequels and I’m still pissed about it. Morgana getting angry at Ryuji was moronic and when you compare it to the slow burn of Junpei or Yukari legitimate reason to be pissed at Mitsuru… yeah not a great look
Yep, the best part of Persona 3 is that it's not about tHe PoWeR oF fRiEnDsHiP and how all these people randomly thrown together are instantly besties for life. It's also why it's a crying shame that The Answer is missing from this version, since the Royal Rumble (and build-up to/aftermath of it) is my favorite sequence in any Persona game and directly challenges the idea of everybody having the exact same goals.
Guess I'm in the minority then of preferring the characters to be friends. I'm not expecting them to always get along but the relationship with all the characters feels like nothing more than toleration and for that, I don't care for them. Junpei getting mad at the protagonist randomly out of jealousy and not bothering to consider talking it out (this happens multiple fucking times) doesn't make a good character. The hate towards mitseru is at least a little warranted (to a degree, it's not like she knew every detail) but they don't even try to work things out. Honestly they hit the nail on the head with the protagonist having an "I don't care" attitude in most scenarios because honestly I have no reason to care for them. They hardly like each other and only stick around because they feel they have to. I really can't get attached to any of these characters making the bad ending a sort of "oh well" moment. At least in 4 and 5 I feel terrible with witnessing the bad endings. Especially 4 when Naoto is brutally murdered over the phone. that still haunts me.
I figured Yahtzee would have enjoyed the game where the characters grapple with the inevitability of death and loss by symbolically commiting suicide in battle. The cavalier animations are both stylish and symbolic.
I have a secret theory that in retrospect he actually doesn't hate old school JRPGs as much as he used to but can't admit that and Persona games are his outlet to scratch that itch. It's ok Yahtz you can admit Chrono Trigger is really really good it won't make you a sell out.
As someone who started with 3, it’s been fun going back to it and seeing how the series has grown. Even with the QoL improvements, there’s a lot that feels underbaked, as Yahtzee said. Plus it makes the highlights stand out. I still think it’s got the best ending of the 3, and Junpei is my favourite character across all of them.
I love Persona 3 and disagree when Yahtz says this is the one to be skipped, but he does have a point: even as a remake full of upgraded visuals and new QoL features, it still is very loyal to the original and might feel off or outdated for someone who started with P5.
They had a chance to improve stuff, the pacing and the villains in particular. I’m in July and have given up on the hopes the pacing got fixed. My only hope is that THOSE reveals regarding the villains are done better but I doubt it. Even the script is following word by word the anime. EXCEPT THEY DIDNT MAKE A PROPER CUTSCENE FOR YOUR PERSONA AWAKENING
That's actually what I appreciate most about it. It IS Persona 3. I was really afraid they would ruin characters and themes with new writing, but the things they added are so seamless into the original experience, I have no choice but to applaud it!
@@cambur3 Yep, same. The combat is just SO insufferably slow with far too many unskippable repetitive animations. Even playing on an emulator with Fast-Forward, I lost patience with it pretty quickly. Which is a shame, since I was loving the quirky characters.
@@Crispman_777 keep in mind the leaks specified that 2 is getting a re*master*, so more like an hd upgrade like what they did with smt3 nocturne. persona 4 is the one getting a reload-like remake
As a big fan of the original P3, my thoughts about the remake begin and end with, "This is really pretty but I've played this game before. I'd like Persona 6 now please."
It is kinda a shame Yahtzee didn't experience all the little quirks and blemishes of the OG P3/P3 FES. The "Tired" mechanic that makes you either stop exploring sooner than you'd like or makes you swap out party members frequently to keep the exploring going, the uncontrollable party members, The Answer, or anything else that's slipping my mind. Experiencing those things really does put into perspective how much things have changed and evolved over the series.
He would have hated the Fatigue mechanic because it's a mechanic that's sole purpose is to take away player agency and extend game length. And for the people that want to complain about not being "challenged" by a lack of reason to leave Tartarus, the game already has a system that makes you leave baked into its mechanics in the form of SP management. The only defense of it that I see whenever I point this out is "it's not THAT bad and it isn't an issue later". Well if it isn't an issue later, then that means the game isn't even committing to the concept. Just because something was taken out doesn't mean it's automatically a bad thing.
@@tbnwontpop8857 Oh, Yahtzee absolutely would've gotten sick of the fatigue system no doubt. It was a neat idea to try but there's a good reason why it never really came back. Hilariously enough, in P3 Portable it only kinda came back. Characters only ever get tired once you leave Tartarus they never get tired during exploration. Managing resources with SP is more than enough for dungeon exploring in these games.
Given Yahtzee's hated of most anime non-sense, I was half-expecting him to enjoy how the universe doesn't revolve around the protagonist in 3 unlike 4 and 5 to the point the player isn't even the one in command of the group and they generally just treat each other like co-workers for the first half.
Exactly what I was thinking. I genuinely got emotional in FES when they acknowledged they have become friends. For the entire game they had fun but everyone had some beef with one another. Just like real people
It's honestly something I dislike in P3, because it takes agency away from the player. Makes us feel like our protag doesn't even need to be there... Mitsuru and the chairman are the actual leaders of the team, you just tell people what to do in combat and even then, Mitsuru could do it. It's even worse when our character barely says anything in the story, and "I don't care" is a dialog option half the time.
There is a difference between things not revolving around the protagonist, and plot happening off-camera. P3 has too much of the latter at the beginning.
@@arturoaguilar6002 that’s another issue entirely though, one I agree with. It’s one thing saying that it’s nice to see characters growing on their own and evolving without the protagonist’s constant presence, another complaining about the fact that we don’t see half the things we hear about. I literally just got the part where the party discovers Koromaru has a persona and it was as frustrating to see as it was on the OG game
I'm about 12 hours into the game right now and I think I enjoy the contrast of this game's party from Persona 5's. This game's party feels like a group of co-workers that are forced to work together despite not really being friends yet. Junpei joining the team felt like being introduced to a new hire. And it's kinda interesting that they all seem to have lives outside of yours. Also I think I like the social links in this one better than P5's (although I only got about halfway through P5 so maybe I just haven't seen a lot of the great ones yet). Also I find that the game seemingly being themed around the inevitability of death and enjoying the limited time that one has on this earth to be rather relatable right now as I'm currently in my mid 20s and completely lost in life.
I noticed a lot of people who like persona 3 are kinda sad people 😂 we all try our best to live our life and persona 3 kinda inspires us to continue despite shitty situations
I like that Persona 3's cast acted more like autonomous people with their own lives and agendas. Yukari, Akihiko, and Mitsuru have their own stuff going on they won't open up about until they're forced to by the plot. There's none of that in Persona 4 and 5 because of how their awakenings work.
I'm not sure if its a FullRam thing or if Yahtzee started doing it in ZP, but I love it when he finds some real life person who looks vaguely like the main character and puts googly eyes on them
My weekly session of “boy I hope he doesn’t make a joke I was planning to make on my video”. I’m just sad Yahtzee didn’t acknowledge that this is the only persona where the party slowly become friends. I hated how in 4 and 5 everyone becomes your friend in 6 nanoseconds. In 3 it takes a whole fucking year before they call each other friends snd the main character doesn’t become their way to find their inner strength. They have their arcs and they culminate on their own. Almost like it’s not up to us to be their only way to become better persons. Refreshing
It’s a common criticism I’ve seen for P3 from people who played 5 and 4 first. I remember thinking similarly when I first started FES that the cast felt kinda dry. But honestly I feel like the way the characters develop and grow to be a family at the end was more satisfying than how 4 and 5 do it where the characters get big scenes when they’re introduced and then proceed to fall into the background for the rest of the game.
LOL, what a garbage take, and not at all what happens in P5. In that game, the party does not ALL have borderline personality disorders, but are pretty normal people forged into a group through some pretty serious shit.
@@MrSmokinDragonThe thing is, the group essentially just revolves around Joker. The characters barely do anything together that isn’t Phantom Thieves business, and even then barely talk to each other outside of Ryuji/Morgana/Ann.
Atlus be like: So we dont have a new game for you all. But here is $70 remake of a nearly 2 decade old game that is also missing canonically important story content, and that we will more than likely repackage as paid dlc. But we promise we are working on Person 6 EDIT: I Literally Called It.
To be fair Persona games seem famous for coming out late heck persona 4 came out in 2008 on the ps2 5 was supposed to come out in 2014 probably whh they always do spin off games to help tge wait
Nobody fucking understands Answer since nobody played it, lol. I mean I'm the only one defending it, I guess. What they needed was to explain Plume of Dusk, Nyx lore(fucking Jenova shit) and some Dark Hour rules like what happens to planes, why MC neved noticed fucking coffins and why SEES is just a bunch of kids if apparently Dark Hour is either a worldwide thing or а time paradox exclusive to Japan.
The tonal clashes didn't bother me as much because the other Persona games got me used to that sort of weirdness already. I feel like the story in 3 had more moments that made me genuinely emotional, even if they all were just "a main character you like dies for real", which hasn't really happened since this installment of the series.
I like that each Persona entry has a different tone. It’s like reading fanfic but your favorite characters are put in different settings with the same FALL IN LOVE goal. Glad Yahtzee liked it well enough, even if it wasn’t his favorite.
It's really subjective. I liked P3 but really preferred P5's characters. A lot of P3 fans focus on what happened towards the end of the game, which is good, but then they forgett that almost fuck all happens when you actually meet the characters. It's no wonder they get their 2nd awakening in the story, because for them, it's the 1st awakening we see. P4 and P5 characters, however, awaken a few hours after we meet them, and it's such a good first impression that P3 really lacks imo.
Also speaking as a fan of all three, I've actually put a lot of thought into which game had the best written people. I personally feel like it MIGHT be 4 however that comes with so many asterisks as to be meaningless. End the end I've just decided my stance is they must all be well written because they aren't comparable. Each game focuses on VERY different aspects of life and the experiences therein. The social links reflect that, which is good design. However it does mean actually comparing them is fraught apples to oranges.
Well now that I'm playing P3 for the first time I can safely say it's because of the fact that your group aren't all social link potential. Which was a really stupid decision that P4 and P5 rightfully fixed
I have a theory that people's feelings toward the characters are mostly decided by the order they played the games. Though the characters can be very different it's easy to see the set of archetypes they tend to use from game to game. so if you played them in release order, your reaction to characters like Yosuke and Ryuji is probably to compare them to Junpei where as if you play them in reverse (like a lot of people have done since Persona 5 became so popular) then you'll do the opposite. I don't really think anybody is right or wrong though, its just a matter of preference. XD
Surprised yhatzee didn't acknowledge how the story doesn't always involve your character. Story beats and character development happen divorced from him. That alone makes the story better than just wish fulfillment wankery of 4 and 5.
What? Just slapped onto the team? There's a whole summer vacation sequence to introduce Aigis, Ken is mentioned and seen regularly before he joins, and Koromaru has a big moment that directly leads to him joining the party. I'm starting to think he might not have actually focused while playing this one, or moreso he was only focused on being silly and ripping into this one. Shame.
I think he has a point compared to Persona 4 and 5, which he says he played first. P4's party recruitment is very linear where you have a defined set-up via seeing a character on the news, a dungeon experience in the form of the Midnight Channel and then a conclusion that eventually culminates in the victim of the week's recruitment into the party. Then with Persona 5, outside of Haru being a bit of an odd duck at the end there, all the characters are set up very well - Ryuji and Ann both have big character moments in the first Palace, Makoto is set up a few Palaces in advance (I legit thought she was gonna be a minor antagonist when I first played the game, her pulling out a Persona was a huge surprise and she went from one of my least favorite characters to my absolute favorite party member), Futaba is a big fan favorite with connections to the backstory and to an established character etc. I didn't mention Yusuke, but his story is more like a Persona 4 story arc. I love Persona 3, but I agree with Yahtzee here. The first batch of characters are already Persona users, Junpei gets his powers off-screen, Ken and Koromaru are foreshadowed (and Ken is tied into the plot significantly) but I can see how Koro in particular is kind of a jump, and Aigis does come out of left field before getting a lion's share of the plot development from that point on. Compared to P4 and P5, which spend a lot more time building the characters from the ground up, P3 can be a bit spottier. There is another commenter who mentioned that P3 has a lot of the plot development take place away from the MC compared to the later games - like Junpei's character arc with the MC and another character - and I totally agree that this aspect gives Persona 3 a different (and kind of refreshing) feel. I still think that compared to the incredibly tight way that later games handle party development, it's valid for a first-time Persona 3 player - especially having played the later games before P3 - would find this aspect of the game to be a bit shakier.
@@dsshocktrooper7523 The remaster/port devs phoned it in when it came to integrating the gamepad screen's information back into the TV screen. I'm not sure if that's what Luther is referring to or if they're sort of person who think drawing the shapes with the stylus is faster/easier than using the right stick, but either way, it's an extreme exaggeration to say the game is only worth playing on Wii U.
@@lutherholayeahme7449 No. But even if it was this game is pure life itself and Hideki Kamiya's magnum opus, flawed yet absolutely perfect in its execution and especially the brand of idealistic tone. I DEMAND to see it reviewed and mentioned as often as it can possibly be done !
The thing about P3R is that it makes the one and only improvement that it actually *needs* to make. Any other improvements or failures don't mattet so much by comparison. And by the one improvement it needs to make, I of course mean direct party member control.
That was added in P3P, I would say the one and only improvement that still needed to be made was how strict your timetable was for completing all the SLinks, due to about half of them being locked off entirely for about a week out of every month.
@@PsychicWars and as i’ve been playing they seem to have made the need to spend too much extra time outside of school to rank up your S Links, usually by adding a couple of extra dialogue choices with more point gains or lowering the little point requirements for them. i even had a schedule i made to max them all in one shot and though some have been late to get (because social stats), some have strangely been able to catch up quickly despite it.
@@THB192 I'm so tired of hearing this take all the time. I actually really like the VN presentation of P3P. Sure, it does away with the overworld details (which I think look ugly anyway) and controlling your character directly (which I think is clunky and annoying), but even then that does not matter to me. My immersion certainly isn't broken (tbh dealing with frustrating controls is more immersion-breaking than anything else to me) and the added benefits of P3P (like direct party member control and a FemC) are more than worth it to me.
@@THB192 Too Many drawbacks like what? A menu instead of running around to talk to people with the exact same amount of options as the menu? A better Main Character option? 2D portraits used more than 3D models when 2D portraits are usually more expressive? The only drawback people actually say which is a Drawback and not a sidegrade is not having the animated cutscenes and thats like... barely an issue? oh and not having the answer but neither does P3R so.
The social links are a lot simpler in 3 (some are downright dumb), so I can see someone thinking that the writing's weaker in that sense. But the way the plot unfolds is my favorite, and while some people can find it jarring, P3's stylish depression shit rocks.
I like the social links in 3 the best out of the series because they are pretty simple. It's a lot of normal people dealing with normal problems and reaching normal solutions. Sure there are some stinkers and some out there ones but most of them feel pretty grounded and realistic. My biggest issue with the confidants in 5 was that all of them started grounded but nearly always included some antagonist or external force holding them back. It's not just Ryuji reconciling with his old track team they also have a horrible new coach that's making things worse. It's not just a washed up journalist drowning her frustrations in booze it's also about how her old friend mysteriously disappeared. One of my favorite social links in 3 is Maiko, the Hanged Man arcana. She's a little girl whose parents are getting divorced. You don't dive into Tartarus and fight the shadow versions of her parents to make them love each other again, you just help her come to terms with the change in her life. The simplicity of 3's social links amplify the juxtaposition of the daily normal high school life aspect and the over the top fighting shadows aspect. 5's need to push everything up to a higher, less relatable degree means that you never not feel like you're playing as super heroes
Funnily enough I would argue P3 has both the best and the worst social links in the series. You have bangers like Akinari, Maiko, and the old couple, but then you have massive stinkers like Nozomi and Kenji
@@ihappy1 5 had decent writing but I disliked how every story had to end with the cast using their powers to solve the problem. If ppl relate to any of the issues the other confidants have, too bad! You can only get out of it using maaaaaagic. While to an extent it makes sense, on the other hand it doesn’t hit as strongly as someone like Maiko or Akinari talking about something the player can’t fix. And as for the party members, their issues often are the effects of them dealing w/ their problems and trauma. But that should’ve affected the main plot. It’s why ppl liked P5’s 3rd semester. There was some form of conclusion, but it could’ve been more. Something similar happened in P3 for the girls, but their SLs unlock after they’ve developed to a point it would make sense for them to deal with these issues and involve the mc in them.
@@Villain_of_Overhype Yeah, I'm honestly pretty mixed on the links in 3. I think it's kind of cool how the male party members have arcs that aren't just tied to links, but on the other hand I'm not a fan of how they feel completely disconnected. It's a little weird how little they interact or confide in you considering you all live together. It doesn't help that the characters that were supposed to replace them for links were largely forgettable or outright bad.
This was the series' first dip in that Waifu Simulator 200X formula folks love so much after all. Growing pains are expected. Persona 2.5 famously had a main cast with real jobs and who'd be old enough to vote. Unthinkable stuff.
About the assessment I expected. Persona 3, while my favorite of the series, is very inconsistent and what we could charitably call "A Slow Burn". It has probably what I consider the strongest core cast of the series, but it takes half the game before the plot really gets going and they develop. Not to mention some of the Social Links are perhaps the best in the franchise whereas others are easily among the worst.
Been having a fun time so far, about 10 hours in and this is my first Persona game. It's interesting conceptually, and oddly cathartic to go through the gameplay loop day by day.
I would carry is one of the best games out there Is depressing It has Elisabeth ( the Malenia of Persona series ) It has shinji in it It doesn't have a happy ending Most importantly IT HAS SHINJI
All things be said, I can't help but really appreciate Persona 3 as the last hurrah for the overall "feel" for the series if that makes sense. Persona being a Shin Megami Tensei spinoff was a MUCH darker and overall bleaker series for the first couple of games with Persona 2 and it's direct sequel being the biggest examples of such (I mean, how many games do YOU know of where the world ends in a spectacularly horrifying fashion, and the only way to fix it involves you and your teammates, people you've grown quite close to, forgetting EVERYTHING including each other?). Persona 3 was the last time in the franchise that complete victory over the villain came at a spectacular cost, ensuring that even the best ending was still spectacularly bittersweet, and the road getting there was basically coated with Lovecraft inspired horrors. I can't lie, on some level I do miss that.
@@r68saga31 yeah p3r has made me cry multiple times and has some bleak af moments. I think it is narratively much stronger than p4 but also makes it a very not cozy experience during major story events. P4 has cozy fun summer vibes and probably my favorite cast in the series.
@@nobodythisisstupid4888 hope to see a p4 remake too, remove marie but keep the rest of the stuff golden added. That would easily be my favorite Persona game. And leave the ost alone.
@@persona3rulez that is why I was surprised with Yatzee reaction, the themes and story seem to be right up his alley. [SPOILER] the fact the game plot basically resumes into "the world is gonna end and there is nothing you can, its not you fault and its not happening out of malice, its just how it is. enjoy your last moments"
It's ok, everyone has the prerogative to be incorrect. Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES are in fact the best ones because I said so. That said I doubt he had time to do the side content that isn't directly linked to the critical path in some form.
This review sounds like Yahtzee i trying to hate on P3 but doesn't know exactly how, so he's just going "it looks boring" and doesn't really give any reasons.
Look, I don't want any toast, and he doesn't want any toast. In fact, no one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. No toast. Or muffins. Or muffins. We don't like muffins around here. We want no muffins, no toast, no teacakes, no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns and definitely no smegging flapjacks. 0:28
Spot on there mate. I really enjoy P3 Reload, and I am a fan of the new mechanics being put into an older game, as it makes moving between them much smoother. Having said that, the age of the game shows through Tartarus and the very small explorable area. I wondered how P3 Portable didn't cut out all that made the game great by just being a visual novel with dungeon crawling, but really, you didn't do much exploring in the base game anyway, the map is bloody tiny.
Persona 3: "Do you want me to explain the basics of combat? You can say No, it's fine." Persona 3 Reload: "LET ME STOP YOU SO WE CAN EXPLAIN HOW ITEM BOXES WORK!"
I don’t have the evidence to back this up, but I truly believe that the remake existing is going to get a lot of people to check out P3 Portable just to play as Femc. Those who wouldn’t had a good chance of never buying Portable or Fes anyway, so it’s cool that they got to experience the story and characters in some form.
Don't worry, they'll repackage this one again with all the expanded content in a year when the price for games is up to $100 a pop and sell it for full price... it's Atlus we're talking about here
IMO the sign of a good game is one that is still good despite it's flaws. If you can articulate problems with a games design, story, art style, whatever you want and yet it still wins you over that means it's doing something right. There is no "perfect" game, everyone is going to have at least some warts. The best games are so well made in some or many fashions that you can overlook the warts and still enjoy your tits off.
@@estefencosta1835 Sorry, but this sounds like a cope. I’ve been juggling Hades and P3R and Hades is “amazing in just about every way” whereas P3R is “riddled with problems.” You don’t have to look past the flaws if the game doesn’t have that many flaws to begin with. Admittedly they’re different styles of games, but come on, a good game is a good game and a flawed game is a flawed game
@@tweeeeeex What exactly am I coping for? I've never even played a Persona game. I'm going to go and try to cope with this comment now. We're all coping with the situation.
@@estefencosta1835I’m saying that your assessment of what makes a good game is misguided. The best games are not the ones where you can “overlook the warts,” the best ones are the ones that don’t have warts to begin with. Come on my dawg, think about it. Don’t excuse poor quality. Expect better from your games. Don’t tolerate nonsense.
Actually, P5s Persona collection method was a return to form, P3 and P4 are like the only ones who have random card collecting method. P1, P2 and most of the SMT games use the convince them into your Persona sack method.
Not sure about P1, but in P2 it still didn’t work like that. P2 had you form contracts by making Demons like you over and over, eventually letting you ask them for Arcana cards that you could use in the Velvet Room to buy new Personas.
Look I know disagreeing with Yahtzee's opinion on a video game in 2024 is like complaining the sky is blue, but as someone who only played 4 and 5 before P3R, I was amazed at how fresh 3's story plays out. This game explores Personas and Shadows in ways that aren't even addressed in later entries. Like, had someone explained this story to me and then told me it was Persona 6's story, I'd believe them. So I don't think writing the narrative off is entirely fair. (also SEES is still 8,000 times better than the Investigation Team)
Really disappointing we didn't get to hear Yahtzee describing getting hyped up for the ending by the comments or his peers before explaining it away with something like "yeah it works, whatever."
I'm glad I started with Persona 3. While 4 and 5 came with a cadre of refinements that improved the experience, 3 will always have that special place in my heart.
@@dayp68gaming20 honestly, the "expand to fill out training bra" bit pushed it into way too specific for me. That final punchline did not turn it into a funny IMO.
@@TCO_404 In Yahtzee's defense this joke is in the Persona 3 review, where he keeps stating that you date teenage girls in it. It was a buildup to a joke he more or less wouldn't make elsewhere unless appropriate.
It's kinda funny to hear Yahtz complain about remaking an unpolished fan-favorite, when he had no interest in playing the original anyway. Hard to judge but it sounds like he hasn't finished it yet. Hope we get some followup content if and when he does since any effusive Persona 3 praise always begins with people talking about how much they love the ending. Even if he has finished it and is still this lukewarm, I'd be very interested in hearing his spoiler takes on what did and didn't work for him.
Yeah him not mentioning Shinji as a party member makes me think he's only in like late summer, before most of the major story beats and character moments really start happening
A lot of P3's reputation is from memoryholing most of its highs are extremely backloaded. Like 50 hours in backloaded. The rest of it might as well be a 6 out of 10 2000s modern fantasy anime at the height of the first Fate's popularity.
Yahtzee: I can't stand the wackiness of you eventually unlocking a dog as a party member. Also Yahtzee: This game where your first party member is a cat is absolutely amazing!
The irony with Persona 3 is that most of the big nitpicks were addressed with the female protagonist and subsequent complete revamp of the story and Social Links in the PSP Remake, which then... did not get included in this remake.
Persona 3 may lack polish but it really felt like the most compelling story in the series thus far. Making it like P5 really waters down the journey of what Persona has become. Reload is mainly a cosmetic upgrade and will do the usual Atlus FOMO double-dip.
Yet as an overall story experience in 5 is still better because how bad the pacing is in 3 with so much nothing happening in 3 until like the last 3rd of the game other than just waiting around for a full moon and new party members just joining up...
@systolicshift6645 it takes over 10 hours to get your basic battle costume on the cover of Reload. That should give you the idea how bad the pacing is without giving any major story spoilers etc, and that's still in very early game...
I love persona games, but I will admit that this one wore me down slightly after I played for what would be enough time to complete a full metroidvania game and the story introduced exactly 2 plot developments. I’ll probably pick it up again at some point though
Thing is, you could argue the same thing about P4. Nothing really develops in the main story until like Mitsuo’s dungeon. Everything before that is basically just “rescue someone from the TV world and gets some vague clue that probably isn’t gonna matter anyway” or “have fun at Junes”
@@Villain_of_Overhype I’d say you’re definitely right. I suppose it was the subjective matter of me enjoying the “flavor” of persona 4’s cast and social link’s more immediately to where I hardly even blinked when it took over an hour to see combat in that game. Not to say I don’t enjoy those things in p3r, it just hasn’t grabbed me as effectively
@@ronaldquinlan4791Yeah that’s completely fair. I think Reload did a lot to try and mend that by adding lots of optional scenes with the party interacting, but it still feels a bit jarring and very slow
We can always appreciate the serenity of yahtzee getting backstabbed by a game studio, slowly eating at the good things that he likes in a game and will probably never see them again.
It's probably because it put Persona on the map. P3-P5 follow roughly the same pattern but P1 and P2 were a lot more traditional Shin Megami Tensei. Hardcore games that are more focused on being disturbing than a light horror romcom.
1 & 2 definitely need to be remade very well imo. 5 was great, but it's luster has really faded with age because of how hard Atlus has milked it. & 4s cast turns me off, while before I ever played 5, 3 always looked like it had the most interesting party/group. But P3P has a lot of QoL that Reload has that makes it kinda sucky even if it's mod'ed & emulated. Still weird why SMT keeps getting locked onto Nintendo hardware but Persona doesn't, Nocturne was cross platform but SMT IV & V had to be kept on crappy switch hmph
Okay, hear me out. I agree with most of this, but by the end of the day/game I surprised myself by... actually liking P3's story way better than P5??? P5's story bits were all about twists that didn't land as well as the game thought they did. P3's story is all about loss and the many ways people deal with it. And some (read: SOME) of the social links are done so well, too. If nothing else, just speed through the main story so you get the experience. Oh, and so you're prepared for if/when Atlus drops the The Answer epilogue as dlc 😂
It won't be DLC, this is Atlus... they'll repackage the whole thing in a year for full price (probably after the base game price increases to $100 because "reasons")
@@genlando327plays2 Yeah, you may be right. But I always console myself with the fact that at least we're better off than Pokemon fans. Pokemon fans are forced to buy two versions of virtually the same game, both of which are going to be a soul-less cash grab that's worse than Palworld. Atlus is gonna make us buy the "ultimate" version, but at least it will be good content.
@@Villain_of_OverhypeThey'll release The Answer as DLC, but then they'll do a definitive edition of the game that has even more content and that'll be a full price re-release.
I actually replayed Persona 3 a couple years ago, my first playthrough was years ago on PSP and the more recent second time was FES on the PS3 - a couple years after beating P5. It really is this great, offbeat experience. Like Christ the Social Links can be terrible, like the Moon arcana. But the Sun arcana (if the Sun arcana is the guy on the park bench, it's been a while) is my favorite social link in the series, bar NONE. It's a very dark and melancholy story with a surprisingly brave ending, even considering the almost twenty years since the game came out. The way things escalate is really unsettling and depressing, and I love how the game is about grief and despair and looking death in the face. I love P5's plot too, it's a fun game with a lot of personality and soul, but for all of the shocking, stylish story moments it has, there's a pulpy veneer to it all that doesn't get as "real" as P3 does. That being said, I love pulpy veneer, and P5 pulls it off perfectly. It's probably the perfect expression of itself. P3 is a bit jankier, but I can see how the through-line cuts deeper and how the plot's... less-homogenous aspects, compared to P4 and P5, are more of a treat. It's a great game.
Persona 3 Reload removes a lot of stuff that made Persona 3 interesting and replaces it with stuff that made Persona 5 interesting. Overall results in kind of a sidegrade, but I guess it's less rough around the edges for more casual players so that's kind of a plus.
Persona 3 is great in a lot of ways but it does suffer from first game syndrome where a lot of the ideas weren't fleshed out fully. I wouldn't have minded if they replaced some of the social links from the original version with new ones based around your party but I get why they didn't.
@@Kermthefrog They could have done away with most of the male ones and replaced them with the SEES members. Kaz is about someone frustratingly breaking his legs for 10 ranks and Kenji is a weird creep.
@@Kermthefrog I actually liked that one. Other games with rare exceptions social links feel very sterile. P3 you hang out with an alcoholic monk, a guy who's dying, a shady TV salesman, and a cultist. P5 especially suffers from this.
While you are absolutely right about everything, i personally was really drawn into the game by how unphased the player character was when entering the nightmare city.
Ah yes my favorite type of reviewer. Someone who goes into a game with a negative bias against the game and already wrote it off before it started. Writing off persona 3s story because you see an anime game and to you every girl is a only just a discount waifu and not a character tied to the main theme of the story its trying to tell.
I disagree with Yahtzee about remakes. It doesn't erase history because the original still exists, and in the case of Persona 3 there are multiple versions to choose from, vanilla, FES, and Portable (yes it counts). On top of that, you get a more direct way to see how a series has evolved over the years.
![Wings 1941 - Meta Quest 3 Gameplay | First Minutes [No Commentary]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2o7Z_Tia_vY/mqdefault.jpg)
Persona, Dark Souls, Yakuza; the holy trinity of "Series that won Yahtzee over"
and then he got really sick of
That last Yakuza review wasn't quite as glowing.
Because, like most western franchises, they also jumped their respective sharks, losing that edge in exchange for mainstream appeal. (Or in Yakuza's case, went back in time to be awesome and then went back to being mid.)
Case in point, he mentioned difficulty - P3 really wasn't balanced at it's core for all the modern battle mechanics (like absolute control over your team), and it shows in P3R.
@@Yesnaught Youre overthinking it. Its just burnout
"Painkiller" also won him over, memory serves. Semi-related sidenotes, "Duke Nukem Forever" and "Hunt Down the Freeman" also managed to seriously drag down his mood.
I love that the game feels the need to show you that there's a rare chest or a shadow on the floor, followed by the navigator telling you that there's a rare chest or shadow on the floor.
And an objective on your HUD to find the rare chest or shadow on the floor. And a marker on the minimap telling you the location of a rare chest or shadow on the floor. And as your approach it, one of your party members chiming in to talk about the rare chest or shadow right there.
I don't know about you, but I'm starting to think there might be a rare chest or shadow on the floor.
Honestly I like that. Last time I played P3 on emulator I spent hours searching floors to see if a rare anything spawned. It would have gone faster if i could just load the area and if i didn't get the message reload the save state
@@glenngriffon8032 ngl mate, i prefer to miss something than to feel my hand held, the dating waifu's mechanic already is built for that.
@@glenngriffon8032 I agree with the thought process, but sadly, they have now exchanged searching for Rare Chests with hunting for Twilight Fragments, at least for me.
This is true, but have you considered that there's a rare chest or shadow on this floor?
Don't forget how the main character's catchphrase is basically "I don't care"
You forgot that he's a main door not a character 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Finally, a relatable protagonist.
Sounds like Squall.
It's no "can't escape crossing fate."
Can't belive Squall got two gigs as a JRPG protagonist.
That scatterbrained joke blew my mind
I felt like the writing was on the wall for that one myself. Maybe a little bit on the floor and ceiling depending on the caliber of the joke.
It was a real parting gift, in that it parted you. A part of you here, a part of you there, and a part of you way over there: staining the wall.
Lucky me, it went right over my head.
Took me a bit to get, ngl ^^;
You win
Back in 2009 I did a webcomic called Persona 3 FTW and I drew all of the Hermit Social Link comics in reference to the old ZP style. That's much funnier to me knowing that Yahtzee is a Persona fan now.
Jesus crunchy Christ I actually remember that and now I feel WAY old.
Oh dip, I remember that! Man, those are some nice memories that have been suddenly unlocked! Thanks for making that, it was ace.
In the flesh?! I remember those comics! V good my guy.
Tatsuyaaaaaaa~ it's 4pm, time for Innocent Sin Online
So cool to see you commenting on this too. Love your Demonic Compendium videos too!
I'm glad the oddly suspicious "girlhood" metaphor resolved with another more consequential metaphor before the video ended
Seriously, that was probably the most shocking and weirdest joke I've heard in a while. Glad it ended with a rightful punch to the face.
agreed had me icked for a hot second
I was pretty curious where that was going, but we got the good ending.
I was still left a little uncomfortable where that was coming from, but then I remembered he'd just admitted to playing over 30 hours of Overly-Sexualized Underly-Aged Mindfuck Anime: The Video Game; pt. 3: Now In HD. So there's that ...
well yeah it was clear the joke was about a complete pervert getting bonced
i didn't know it was possible for Yahtzee to become more inappropriate but we seem to be reaching new heights with fully ramblomatic now and I'm all for it
This feels more like a return to his earlier ZP days and I too am here for it.
That's what happens when you cast off the corporate shackles restricting your creativity.
Or algorithm shackles, I guess, being largely a patreon funded channel.
Appropriately inappropriate.
Like your mum.
This is maybe the first time I'm actually in the middle of a game Yahtzee is reviewing, feels like a milestone
Me too. I usually don't buy new releases due to price but I got a free trial of gamepass a bit back and saved it for this game.
@@danielgrezda3339 My wife and I both loved P5, recently finished P4 and loved it, then both got the flu and were like... well! No better time to pay full price for a video game I guess!
@@sarahnagy9300 It's not that this game is not worth full price, but usually I buy a bunch games on sale, and play them and if there is a cool new release I can just play my other games and wait. I have the other games on switch and will buy the game if it's on switch 2 with the answer like some leakers have said will happen.
you're gonna need more than 2 weeks for this game lol @@danielgrezda3339
Oh yeah, not that I think about it pretty much every ZP/FR video of his that I've watched is either of a game I have never played, or very rarely, a game that I've already completed.
Ah, back in the early ZP days Yahtzee commented how unthinkable it would be for him to review a Persona game. These days P5 gets namedropped in almost every other video
In the early LDO days he was sceptical towards Dark Souls as well. Its a wonderful thing when peoples sensibilities evolve over time.
That's just how good P5 is honestly
Remember back when he reviewed Catherine and he had such a massive misunderstanding of the Persona series that he assumed Persona 4 took place in a dream world?
I find his decision to go from a yellow background in his old series to red in the new one a bit suspicious too, personally.
Hey, just because Persona 3 is about death and depression doesn't mean it can't be stylish and funky.
BABYBABYBABYBABYBABY *starts vibing and shoots myself in the fucking head*
I mean why do you think we have gallows humour?
Black Parade is Arena Rock album. Listen to Dead and tell me that isn't sick as fuck
Not even restricted to P3 either, Danganronpa is well known for having brutal execution scenes paired with some absolutely fresh beats to go with it lol. Stylistic dichotomy is kinda the goal with both of them in my opinion.
This “tonal dissonance” that P3 had was mostly just the fact that it still had a lot of old Persona/SMT DNA in its soul. P2 has a dungeon where you fight your way through waves of literal Nazi soldiers just to then have the game talk about how one of the teen girl party members sells herself and does drugs.
Finally the real 'Suicide Squad' review
I see what you did there.
@@KeithFraser82 Read the steam reviews?
What are we, some kind of personas?
3?
"It's like an extremely ill advised premise for a saturday morning cartoon."
I laughed. Applause Yahtz.
P3 for me has always had the better team, a group of different individuals becoming a team over time, people in said world aren't orbiting around you, like in the newer games where no character can have any development without your presence, rather you are a piece of this world and so the entire team have lives outside YOU.
this is entirely correct. the game makes this super clear as well, from the shadows being an already set in motion problem to party members just fucking off and not wanting to go dungeoning because their dad died or something, to the party members evolving their personas through the set story without anything to do with you. you're just the kid whose power is slightly cooler so you get to do the superficial leading
@@PotatoTortoise
Honestly, that sounds lovely. I remember experiencing Octopath Traveler, and one thing that didn't bring joy was how all eight stories were so detached from each other sans the underlying mysteries and random chimes from a party member in the middle of the quest. On one hand, it makes sense to make these things personal, but on the other, it is disheartening to only imagine the reactions of some of our guys to the beats of the other's story they were definitely present for.
As someone who started with Persona 3, it still would have been nice to see an Awakening other than your own at least once. Still, I agree that it did help make the environment feel more alive since things were happening around you more rather than because of you. The story with a lot of this being instigated from events in the past also helps. You're really only there because you were the kid unlucky enough to be present when Aigis needed to shove the personification of death in a nearby soul, not because some deity thought you were special or a threat (4 and 5 respectively)
It went a long way to making the environment feel alive.
That was always my favourite thing about the persona 3 cast. And after 4 and 5 where nobody can seem to help themselves without you and it’s amazing that 3 was able to stick the landing before them and do it great.
Like my only issue, is that you can’t social link with everyone in your party, with the male you get the woman and in portable as the female you then get the men, which struck me as odd, but because of how the writing and story is done it still works fine because a lot of their development isn’t tied with social links so it’s a nitpick
Yeah, one of the things I like about P3 is something I thought Yahtzee might have appreciated considering how much he got annoyed with it in Zelda: you are not that special.
Sure, having a Perosna at all is rare and the Wild Card is kind of a big deal, but not nearly as much as 4 or 5 where the entire world might as well revolve around you.
This is further supported by the boss fights being at fixed times and the party members acting on their own (wonky as it was, damn you Marin Karin): you are NOT in control. This thing is happening with or without you.
I propose "holy ghost in the shell" for the sentient android.
4:04
XD
I thought of the father the son and the horny ghost but I think yours is better
👏👏👏 Bravo.
In The Name Of The Father, The Son, And The Holy Waifu, Amen.
(That could be the starting trio of party members in a JRPG, with the twist that ardent fans can't agree on whether the Holy Waifu should be the Waifu of the Son, the Father, or in some of the more "bold and taboo-breaking" fanfics, both of them.)
Nice one.
Yahtzee was really flexing his newfound autonomy with that last joke
i absolutely love the soft spot for basically anything persona related now, the constant reminder that hes being a bit harsh and nitpicky despite its problems really makes me think this is an all timer series for yahtzee
can't wait to see the loving insults he gives it when P3R is on his best of 2024 list
If you ask me, missing out on important stuff off-screen is consistent with the MC's personality considering he very often has dialogue choices showing that he's pretty apathetic and often morose about things in the back of his mind. Like yeah, it probably was pretty cool and dramatic how Junpei awakened to his Persona... but why would the MC care? He barely built a rapport with him at that point and it's not like Yosuke or Ryuji where he actively had to step in and make a conscious caring choice to save them from a dangerous situation.
Exactly. Besides, their second awakenings are seen onscreen and they’re the culmination of the character’s development throughout the entire story. Those are their big moments. Those second awakenings felt more impactful than what we got in 4 and 5 imo.
@@Villain_of_Overhype Yep. I don't disagree with Yahtzee that the plot is sluggish to start but that's what it means to be slow burn.
I agree. It’s slow burn and I love it this way. Getting into it right away into persona 5 was fun, but this just feels like a complex, well written story
I'm disappointed to see you talking about "things happening outside the screen" as a negative. Personally I think it's Persona 3 main positive - it makes the world feel alive. One of the worst things for me in P5 was the fact that it felt like everything exists only if the main protagonist was around. People were standing around doing nothing, suspended in some sort of stasis until you arrive, not growing, not interacting with anyone else, just.. existing frozen in time. In P3 the characters evolve on their own, you see them living their lives, talking with each other, learning about each other, all while you're not there. IMO, one of the best things about P3: the world continues without you, just like the real world does.
I think that aspect is mad overrated by fans in P3. It's actually refreshing to see Yahtzee not glaze 3 like the fandom does.
Well said, and the same goes for Persona 3's selection of Social Links, I actually liked that many of them were relatively normal people with no connection to the main plot. The old couple running the bookstore in particular had a poignant little story that really stuck with me.
Yeah but there are just as many that boring and obnoxious. Not to mention there are plenty of S links in the other games that aren't connected to the main plot@@Arcananine77
To be honest, it didn't take 5 games for them to understand that negotiations were the tops. 1 and 2 had them and 2 had negotiations that are absolute comedy. Though in a roundabout way, you don't get the shadow/demon you were negotiating with but the arcana cards they are associated with. 3 and 4 became more direct with the cards by just giving you a chance to gain persona if you pick the right one and then 5 just straight up returned to diet recruitment from Shin Megami Tensei which I actually like better.
SEES for the most part are slightly half baked if compared to 4 and 5 but counterpoint is that none of these people actually know each other with a few exceptions. People are dragged into SEES for the same reason Peter Parker becomes a superhero: "With great power comes great responsibility." Being dragged into the Dark Hour may be random chance but having enough willpower to actually overcome the call of the void is rarer.
The main theme of the game is mortality. But that comes in many forms. And like the masks in 5, the evokers in 3 symbolize the lack of fear towards death. The game explores a lot of topics adjecent to the concept of death either symbolic or literal death. Death of a marriage, death of a loved one, death of a dream, etc etc. This also includes suicide which I will not be talking about as it is a massive spoiler on the overall message Persona 3 is trying to get across as Japan is one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Persona is never shy about social commentary on Japanese society.
Also most Seese members had family killed by shadows
@@nathank2289 not the protagonist.
Spoiler:
Aigis in Orgia Mode aka her full automation mode where she becomes relentless in pursuit of shadows caused the accident that led to the death of the protagonist's parents.
Also all the SMT game before and since still had negotiating, probably just wanted something distinct
I'm just gonna add this here:
Persona 3 has 2 main themes, and in the beginning only the first one is obvious but the second one becomes more apparent in the later parts of the game. That theme is Life. The protagonist is a blank slate because that's who he is after his lifetime of tragedy. Death is the obvious theme but finding the will to live on/ Your Answer to Life is the second theme of the game and the reason I absolutely love Persona 3 in all of its media adaptations. The 4th Movie got this one even better.
@@Brian-tn4cd most megaten games had negotiations. It was what the franchise started with and how the monster collecting RPG was born. 1987's Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei.
Summoning demons by way of gun to the head is pretty metal. Has me more interested than the other Persona games tbh.
They can always make it Takaya style. Though they'll get a huge backlash for making a game about children tormenting themselves
@@pureevil9496 5 was as close as they'll get. Only because you would rip your face off too
I have absolutely no idea what all this stuff that yahtzee is talking about is, and im not sure if its a good or a bad thing, but his enthusiasm would indicate that he wont cry like a anime fan on prom night.
Mighty number give us 12 already capcom
Or legends 3
@@kyotheman69 Why would you recommend p4 golden and skip p3 reload? makes no sense. They're all decent enough games that warrant trying out and I don't see what makes golden better than reload gameplay wise at all it's all pretty similar.
The dungeon in P3 that opens up month to month is functionally the same thing as In P4 too just the pacing is slightly different.
@@kyotheman69 Suggesting people skip the best game in the series by a mile... Ew. You probably just didn't get it while everyone else did.
@@kyotheman69 Persona 3 has flat out the best story, and one of the criticisms against it brought up in this video, like Junpei awakening off screen, is actually something I like. The world is alive and characters do things and without the MC being present. Hell, a lot of the characters have entire character arcs without your direct input. It makes the characters, imo, feel more like characters than just tag alongs in the MCs party.
@Steamedhams578 P3R is faithful to a fault, that's the main reason I would think. Everything - from dungeon crawling to character writing - feels far less realized compared to 4, and downright primitive to 5. Don’t get me wrong, It’s still a good game and a fantastic remake, but still - if you gotta play only one, play P5R.
It’s always fun to see Persona 5 fans experience culture shock when they go back to older Persona or SMT games
I, too, find it fascinating to see a game I like before it added all the things I liked about it.
Didn't they add alot of the shit from persona 5?
@@FrancoUnAmericano
That was more a dig at SMT and Persona 1 & 2.
A new Fully Ramblomatic comes out while i'm eating. Perfect timing
@@ethzero Samosa and grapes
I figured the evoker, glacial pace and basic nature of the game would be sticking points, still doesn't change that it's my favorite persona game but it's fun to see people riff on problems I've been aware of for almost a decade
One thing I can't abide by is his interpretation of the characters, Persona 3 has some of the most grounded and realistic characters in the series
At least you can control your party members now.
P3 will always have a special place in my heart as my first Persona game. It's just such a whiplash that most of the game is filled with standard anime antics, but the cutscenes are some of edgiest shit ever
@@kingsleycy3450 But that's the charm of it. A mundane "normal" life filled with metaphors for depression
Persona 3 is straight up amazing in a way that the later games aren't, but I do understand the rough bits turning people off. Even the Evoker was a genius move, it's introduced to the player perfectly, and just fits the themes of the game.
Also the pacing of the opening isn't that bad. at least it's not five hours until you're actually in the meat of the game. I swear Reload lengthened it and it's still under an hour. Plus it actually foreshadows one of the later revelations remarkably well (Minato is not shocked or unnerved by the Dark Hour, because he's been experiencing it for up to a decade).
I know right. This is so cathartic to witness as an older fan of the series.
Baby Baby Baby Baby Baby Baby . . .
I burnt my breaaaaaad
OOOOOOH YEAH
**frog noises**
"justice for the man with no life"
Ribbit ribbit 🐸
I love how the team comes together in Persona 3 ❤
I always liked this cast the most because they have actual reasons to hate each other but choose to work together.
Yeah that's the part of Persona 3 that I think is leaps and bounds better than 4 and 5. The party members individual storylines are woven in to the main plot well and let them have a character arc and a dynamic. While in 4 and 5 once you recruit a character they stay pretty static for the rest of the game and the only thing resembling a character arc happens in their option social link/confidant.
Something that they completely ditched in the sequels and I’m still pissed about it. Morgana getting angry at Ryuji was moronic and when you compare it to the slow burn of Junpei or Yukari legitimate reason to be pissed at Mitsuru… yeah not a great look
Yep, the best part of Persona 3 is that it's not about tHe PoWeR oF fRiEnDsHiP and how all these people randomly thrown together are instantly besties for life. It's also why it's a crying shame that The Answer is missing from this version, since the Royal Rumble (and build-up to/aftermath of it) is my favorite sequence in any Persona game and directly challenges the idea of everybody having the exact same goals.
@@CaptainKenwayFrom what I heard, they're going to maje The Answer a DLC this time around
Guess I'm in the minority then of preferring the characters to be friends. I'm not expecting them to always get along but the relationship with all the characters feels like nothing more than toleration and for that, I don't care for them. Junpei getting mad at the protagonist randomly out of jealousy and not bothering to consider talking it out (this happens multiple fucking times) doesn't make a good character. The hate towards mitseru is at least a little warranted (to a degree, it's not like she knew every detail) but they don't even try to work things out.
Honestly they hit the nail on the head with the protagonist having an "I don't care" attitude in most scenarios because honestly I have no reason to care for them. They hardly like each other and only stick around because they feel they have to. I really can't get attached to any of these characters making the bad ending a sort of "oh well" moment. At least in 4 and 5 I feel terrible with witnessing the bad endings. Especially 4 when Naoto is brutally murdered over the phone. that still haunts me.
I figured Yahtzee would have enjoyed the game where the characters grapple with the inevitability of death and loss by symbolically commiting suicide in battle. The cavalier animations are both stylish and symbolic.
Sometimes I completely forget that Yahtzee is a Persona fan now and that fact just blows my mind.
I have a secret theory that in retrospect he actually doesn't hate old school JRPGs as much as he used to but can't admit that and Persona games are his outlet to scratch that itch. It's ok Yahtz you can admit Chrono Trigger is really really good it won't make you a sell out.
As someone who started with 3, it’s been fun going back to it and seeing how the series has grown. Even with the QoL improvements, there’s a lot that feels underbaked, as Yahtzee said.
Plus it makes the highlights stand out. I still think it’s got the best ending of the 3, and Junpei is my favourite character across all of them.
Better QOL but it feels Inferior in a lot of ways.
I love Persona 3 and disagree when Yahtz says this is the one to be skipped, but he does have a point: even as a remake full of upgraded visuals and new QoL features, it still is very loyal to the original and might feel off or outdated for someone who started with P5.
They had a chance to improve stuff, the pacing and the villains in particular. I’m in July and have given up on the hopes the pacing got fixed. My only hope is that THOSE reveals regarding the villains are done better but I doubt it.
Even the script is following word by word the anime. EXCEPT THEY DIDNT MAKE A PROPER CUTSCENE FOR YOUR PERSONA AWAKENING
@@roboknobthesnob They added a bunch of new scenes with strega in particular at least.
That's actually what I appreciate most about it. It IS Persona 3. I was really afraid they would ruin characters and themes with new writing, but the things they added are so seamless into the original experience, I have no choice but to applaud it!
i agree, it's the one modern persona game that's plot is consistent, no ass pulls or bait and switches
Now we need a remaster of Persona 2 so Yatzee can review it and SUFFER
Supposedly that's the next one they're working on according to their polls .
@@Crispman_777 GOOD.
That would have been a great one to remake and modernize, I tried playing it between 4 and 5 and absolutely could not get into it.
@@cambur3 Yep, same. The combat is just SO insufferably slow with far too many unskippable repetitive animations. Even playing on an emulator with Fast-Forward, I lost patience with it pretty quickly. Which is a shame, since I was loving the quirky characters.
@@Crispman_777 keep in mind the leaks specified that 2 is getting a re*master*, so more like an hd upgrade like what they did with smt3 nocturne. persona 4 is the one getting a reload-like remake
As a big fan of the original P3, my thoughts about the remake begin and end with, "This is really pretty but I've played this game before. I'd like Persona 6 now please."
Considering P3P exists I think making this remake is "the white whale" of the franchise
It is kinda a shame Yahtzee didn't experience all the little quirks and blemishes of the OG P3/P3 FES. The "Tired" mechanic that makes you either stop exploring sooner than you'd like or makes you swap out party members frequently to keep the exploring going, the uncontrollable party members, The Answer, or anything else that's slipping my mind. Experiencing those things really does put into perspective how much things have changed and evolved over the series.
He would have hated the Fatigue mechanic because it's a mechanic that's sole purpose is to take away player agency and extend game length. And for the people that want to complain about not being "challenged" by a lack of reason to leave Tartarus, the game already has a system that makes you leave baked into its mechanics in the form of SP management. The only defense of it that I see whenever I point this out is "it's not THAT bad and it isn't an issue later". Well if it isn't an issue later, then that means the game isn't even committing to the concept.
Just because something was taken out doesn't mean it's automatically a bad thing.
@@tbnwontpop8857 Oh, Yahtzee absolutely would've gotten sick of the fatigue system no doubt. It was a neat idea to try but there's a good reason why it never really came back. Hilariously enough, in P3 Portable it only kinda came back. Characters only ever get tired once you leave Tartarus they never get tired during exploration. Managing resources with SP is more than enough for dungeon exploring in these games.
Given Yahtzee's hated of most anime non-sense, I was half-expecting him to enjoy how the universe doesn't revolve around the protagonist in 3 unlike 4 and 5 to the point the player isn't even the one in command of the group and they generally just treat each other like co-workers for the first half.
Exactly what I was thinking. I genuinely got emotional in FES when they acknowledged they have become friends. For the entire game they had fun but everyone had some beef with one another. Just like real people
It's honestly something I dislike in P3, because it takes agency away from the player. Makes us feel like our protag doesn't even need to be there... Mitsuru and the chairman are the actual leaders of the team, you just tell people what to do in combat and even then, Mitsuru could do it. It's even worse when our character barely says anything in the story, and "I don't care" is a dialog option half the time.
There is a difference between things not revolving around the protagonist, and plot happening off-camera. P3 has too much of the latter at the beginning.
@@arturoaguilar6002 that’s another issue entirely though, one I agree with. It’s one thing saying that it’s nice to see characters growing on their own and evolving without the protagonist’s constant presence, another complaining about the fact that we don’t see half the things we hear about. I literally just got the part where the party discovers Koromaru has a persona and it was as frustrating to see as it was on the OG game
Ppl who claim they don’t like anime stuff tend to prove to be anime trope fans when the anime tropes aren’t there. Grass is greener on the other side.
1:36 Chie!? The *GIRL GIRL*? No, she is the tomboy.
Missed opportunity on them putting Rise there for sure.
I'm about 12 hours into the game right now and I think I enjoy the contrast of this game's party from Persona 5's. This game's party feels like a group of co-workers that are forced to work together despite not really being friends yet. Junpei joining the team felt like being introduced to a new hire. And it's kinda interesting that they all seem to have lives outside of yours. Also I think I like the social links in this one better than P5's (although I only got about halfway through P5 so maybe I just haven't seen a lot of the great ones yet).
Also I find that the game seemingly being themed around the inevitability of death and enjoying the limited time that one has on this earth to be rather relatable right now as I'm currently in my mid 20s and completely lost in life.
I noticed a lot of people who like persona 3 are kinda sad people 😂 we all try our best to live our life and persona 3 kinda inspires us to continue despite shitty situations
I like that Persona 3's cast acted more like autonomous people with their own lives and agendas. Yukari, Akihiko, and Mitsuru have their own stuff going on they won't open up about until they're forced to by the plot.
There's none of that in Persona 4 and 5 because of how their awakenings work.
I'm not sure if its a FullRam thing or if Yahtzee started doing it in ZP, but I love it when he finds some real life person who looks vaguely like the main character and puts googly eyes on them
That was a ZP thing too.
My weekly session of “boy I hope he doesn’t make a joke I was planning to make on my video”.
I’m just sad Yahtzee didn’t acknowledge that this is the only persona where the party slowly become friends. I hated how in 4 and 5 everyone becomes your friend in 6 nanoseconds.
In 3 it takes a whole fucking year before they call each other friends snd the main character doesn’t become their way to find their inner strength. They have their arcs and they culminate on their own. Almost like it’s not up to us to be their only way to become better persons. Refreshing
It’s a common criticism I’ve seen for P3 from people who played 5 and 4 first. I remember thinking similarly when I first started FES that the cast felt kinda dry. But honestly I feel like the way the characters develop and grow to be a family at the end was more satisfying than how 4 and 5 do it where the characters get big scenes when they’re introduced and then proceed to fall into the background for the rest of the game.
LOL, what a garbage take, and not at all what happens in P5. In that game, the party does not ALL have borderline personality disorders, but are pretty normal people forged into a group through some pretty serious shit.
@@MrSmokinDragonThe thing is, the group essentially just revolves around Joker. The characters barely do anything together that isn’t Phantom Thieves business, and even then barely talk to each other outside of Ryuji/Morgana/Ann.
@@MrSmokinDragon if by that you mean that they become friends in the span of 6 days for each party member, yeah sure
@@roboknobthesnob Nostalgia is one hell of a drug, huh?
Atlus be like: So we dont have a new game for you all. But here is $70 remake of a nearly 2 decade old game that is also missing canonically important story content, and that we will more than likely repackage as paid dlc. But we promise we are working on Person 6
EDIT: I Literally Called It.
To be honest, The Answer is fucking terrible and I'd rather not have it.
To be fair Persona games seem famous for coming out late heck persona 4 came out in 2008 on the ps2 5 was supposed to come out in 2014 probably whh they always do spin off games to help tge wait
What's missing?
It's on Gamepass so I'm playing without buying
Nobody fucking understands Answer since nobody played it, lol. I mean I'm the only one defending it, I guess. What they needed was to explain Plume of Dusk, Nyx lore(fucking Jenova shit) and some Dark Hour rules like what happens to planes, why MC neved noticed fucking coffins and why SEES is just a bunch of kids if apparently Dark Hour is either a worldwide thing or а time paradox exclusive to Japan.
persona 3 still has that SMT DNA in its tone
The tonal clashes didn't bother me as much because the other Persona games got me used to that sort of weirdness already. I feel like the story in 3 had more moments that made me genuinely emotional, even if they all were just "a main character you like dies for real", which hasn't really happened since this installment of the series.
Gods, I loved this game. When I finally realized what was going on with the ending, I straight up sobbed.
That ending remark. 0___0
I was just coming on here to see if someone mentioned it...
yeah seriously what the hell was that💀
@@synmad3638 ikr, that was strange
Anime was a mistake
It’s a joke about Persona being pervy lol
I like that each Persona entry has a different tone. It’s like reading fanfic but your favorite characters are put in different settings with the same FALL IN LOVE goal.
Glad Yahtzee liked it well enough, even if it wasn’t his favorite.
It's interesting to see Yatz think the characters in 5 are the most interesting, when the zeitgeist generally seems to be the exact opposite.
It's really subjective. I liked P3 but really preferred P5's characters.
A lot of P3 fans focus on what happened towards the end of the game, which is good, but then they forgett that almost fuck all happens when you actually meet the characters. It's no wonder they get their 2nd awakening in the story, because for them, it's the 1st awakening we see. P4 and P5 characters, however, awaken a few hours after we meet them, and it's such a good first impression that P3 really lacks imo.
I always say that P3 has the best story, P4 has the best characters, and P5 has the best style.
Also speaking as a fan of all three, I've actually put a lot of thought into which game had the best written people. I personally feel like it MIGHT be 4 however that comes with so many asterisks as to be meaningless. End the end I've just decided my stance is they must all be well written because they aren't comparable. Each game focuses on VERY different aspects of life and the experiences therein. The social links reflect that, which is good design. However it does mean actually comparing them is fraught apples to oranges.
Well now that I'm playing P3 for the first time I can safely say it's because of the fact that your group aren't all social link potential. Which was a really stupid decision that P4 and P5 rightfully fixed
I have a theory that people's feelings toward the characters are mostly decided by the order they played the games. Though the characters can be very different it's easy to see the set of archetypes they tend to use from game to game. so if you played them in release order, your reaction to characters like Yosuke and Ryuji is probably to compare them to Junpei where as if you play them in reverse (like a lot of people have done since Persona 5 became so popular) then you'll do the opposite. I don't really think anybody is right or wrong though, its just a matter of preference. XD
Surprised yhatzee didn't acknowledge how the story doesn't always involve your character. Story beats and character development happen divorced from him. That alone makes the story better than just wish fulfillment wankery of 4 and 5.
i think he did actually
What? Just slapped onto the team? There's a whole summer vacation sequence to introduce Aigis, Ken is mentioned and seen regularly before he joins, and Koromaru has a big moment that directly leads to him joining the party. I'm starting to think he might not have actually focused while playing this one, or moreso he was only focused on being silly and ripping into this one. Shame.
All those years of Yahtzee's journalistic integrity, in ruins
I think he has a point compared to Persona 4 and 5, which he says he played first. P4's party recruitment is very linear where you have a defined set-up via seeing a character on the news, a dungeon experience in the form of the Midnight Channel and then a conclusion that eventually culminates in the victim of the week's recruitment into the party.
Then with Persona 5, outside of Haru being a bit of an odd duck at the end there, all the characters are set up very well - Ryuji and Ann both have big character moments in the first Palace, Makoto is set up a few Palaces in advance (I legit thought she was gonna be a minor antagonist when I first played the game, her pulling out a Persona was a huge surprise and she went from one of my least favorite characters to my absolute favorite party member), Futaba is a big fan favorite with connections to the backstory and to an established character etc. I didn't mention Yusuke, but his story is more like a Persona 4 story arc.
I love Persona 3, but I agree with Yahtzee here. The first batch of characters are already Persona users, Junpei gets his powers off-screen, Ken and Koromaru are foreshadowed (and Ken is tied into the plot significantly) but I can see how Koro in particular is kind of a jump, and Aigis does come out of left field before getting a lion's share of the plot development from that point on.
Compared to P4 and P5, which spend a lot more time building the characters from the ground up, P3 can be a bit spottier. There is another commenter who mentioned that P3 has a lot of the plot development take place away from the MC compared to the later games - like Junpei's character arc with the MC and another character - and I totally agree that this aspect gives Persona 3 a different (and kind of refreshing) feel. I still think that compared to the incredibly tight way that later games handle party development, it's valid for a first-time Persona 3 player - especially having played the later games before P3 - would find this aspect of the game to be a bit shakier.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!
Yatzee completely forgot to make a review of *The Wonderful 101* back in 2013 and now in 2020. So I'm waiting.
You kinda need a wii u to play it optimally
@lutherholayeahme7449 what's wrong with the other versions?
@@dsshocktrooper7523 The remaster/port devs phoned it in when it came to integrating the gamepad screen's information back into the TV screen. I'm not sure if that's what Luther is referring to or if they're sort of person who think drawing the shapes with the stylus is faster/easier than using the right stick, but either way, it's an extreme exaggeration to say the game is only worth playing on Wii U.
@@lutherholayeahme7449 No. But even if it was this game is pure life itself and Hideki Kamiya's magnum opus, flawed yet absolutely perfect in its execution and especially the brand of idealistic tone.
I DEMAND to see it reviewed and mentioned as often as it can possibly be done !
The thing about P3R is that it makes the one and only improvement that it actually *needs* to make. Any other improvements or failures don't mattet so much by comparison.
And by the one improvement it needs to make, I of course mean direct party member control.
That was added in P3P, I would say the one and only improvement that still needed to be made was how strict your timetable was for completing all the SLinks, due to about half of them being locked off entirely for about a week out of every month.
@@PsychicWars Yes it was added in P3P, but P3P had too many drawbacks to be considered a definitive version of the game (mostly around presentation).
@@PsychicWars and as i’ve been playing they seem to have made the need to spend too much extra time outside of school to rank up your S Links, usually by adding a couple of extra dialogue choices with more point gains or lowering the little point requirements for them. i even had a schedule i made to max them all in one shot and though some have been late to get (because social stats), some have strangely been able to catch up quickly despite it.
@@THB192 I'm so tired of hearing this take all the time. I actually really like the VN presentation of P3P. Sure, it does away with the overworld details (which I think look ugly anyway) and controlling your character directly (which I think is clunky and annoying), but even then that does not matter to me. My immersion certainly isn't broken (tbh dealing with frustrating controls is more immersion-breaking than anything else to me) and the added benefits of P3P (like direct party member control and a FemC) are more than worth it to me.
@@THB192 Too Many drawbacks like what? A menu instead of running around to talk to people with the exact same amount of options as the menu? A better Main Character option? 2D portraits used more than 3D models when 2D portraits are usually more expressive?
The only drawback people actually say which is a Drawback and not a sidegrade is not having the animated cutscenes and thats like... barely an issue? oh and not having the answer but neither does P3R so.
The social links are a lot simpler in 3 (some are downright dumb), so I can see someone thinking that the writing's weaker in that sense. But the way the plot unfolds is my favorite, and while some people can find it jarring, P3's stylish depression shit rocks.
I like the social links in 3 the best out of the series because they are pretty simple. It's a lot of normal people dealing with normal problems and reaching normal solutions. Sure there are some stinkers and some out there ones but most of them feel pretty grounded and realistic.
My biggest issue with the confidants in 5 was that all of them started grounded but nearly always included some antagonist or external force holding them back. It's not just Ryuji reconciling with his old track team they also have a horrible new coach that's making things worse. It's not just a washed up journalist drowning her frustrations in booze it's also about how her old friend mysteriously disappeared.
One of my favorite social links in 3 is Maiko, the Hanged Man arcana. She's a little girl whose parents are getting divorced. You don't dive into Tartarus and fight the shadow versions of her parents to make them love each other again, you just help her come to terms with the change in her life.
The simplicity of 3's social links amplify the juxtaposition of the daily normal high school life aspect and the over the top fighting shadows aspect. 5's need to push everything up to a higher, less relatable degree means that you never not feel like you're playing as super heroes
Funnily enough I would argue P3 has both the best and the worst social links in the series. You have bangers like Akinari, Maiko, and the old couple, but then you have massive stinkers like Nozomi and Kenji
@@ihappy1 5 had decent writing but I disliked how every story had to end with the cast using their powers to solve the problem. If ppl relate to any of the issues the other confidants have, too bad! You can only get out of it using maaaaaagic. While to an extent it makes sense, on the other hand it doesn’t hit as strongly as someone like Maiko or Akinari talking about something the player can’t fix.
And as for the party members, their issues often are the effects of them dealing w/ their problems and trauma. But that should’ve affected the main plot. It’s why ppl liked P5’s 3rd semester. There was some form of conclusion, but it could’ve been more. Something similar happened in P3 for the girls, but their SLs unlock after they’ve developed to a point it would make sense for them to deal with these issues and involve the mc in them.
@@Villain_of_Overhype Yeah, I'm honestly pretty mixed on the links in 3. I think it's kind of cool how the male party members have arcs that aren't just tied to links, but on the other hand I'm not a fan of how they feel completely disconnected. It's a little weird how little they interact or confide in you considering you all live together.
It doesn't help that the characters that were supposed to replace them for links were largely forgettable or outright bad.
This was the series' first dip in that Waifu Simulator 200X formula folks love so much after all. Growing pains are expected.
Persona 2.5 famously had a main cast with real jobs and who'd be old enough to vote. Unthinkable stuff.
About the assessment I expected. Persona 3, while my favorite of the series, is very inconsistent and what we could charitably call "A Slow Burn".
It has probably what I consider the strongest core cast of the series, but it takes half the game before the plot really gets going and they develop. Not to mention some of the Social Links are perhaps the best in the franchise whereas others are easily among the worst.
Been having a fun time so far, about 10 hours in and this is my first Persona game. It's interesting conceptually, and oddly cathartic to go through the gameplay loop day by day.
I've been waiting for this.
I would carry is one of the best games out there
Is depressing
It has Elisabeth ( the Malenia of Persona series )
It has shinji in it
It doesn't have a happy ending
Most importantly
IT HAS SHINJI
I mean, I wouldn't call p3's ending sad either it's more so bittersweet
All things be said, I can't help but really appreciate Persona 3 as the last hurrah for the overall "feel" for the series if that makes sense. Persona being a Shin Megami Tensei spinoff was a MUCH darker and overall bleaker series for the first couple of games with Persona 2 and it's direct sequel being the biggest examples of such (I mean, how many games do YOU know of where the world ends in a spectacularly horrifying fashion, and the only way to fix it involves you and your teammates, people you've grown quite close to, forgetting EVERYTHING including each other?).
Persona 3 was the last time in the franchise that complete victory over the villain came at a spectacular cost, ensuring that even the best ending was still spectacularly bittersweet, and the road getting there was basically coated with Lovecraft inspired horrors. I can't lie, on some level I do miss that.
Persona 3 Reload is just really really comforting. The simpler feel makes it easy to just vibe to for a few hours.
nah, p4 is the cozy one.
Even funnier that they've put a disclaimer "take breaks if the themes are too dark"
@@r68saga31 yeah p3r has made me cry multiple times and has some bleak af moments. I think it is narratively much stronger than p4 but also makes it a very not cozy experience during major story events. P4 has cozy fun summer vibes and probably my favorite cast in the series.
@@nobodythisisstupid4888 hope to see a p4 remake too, remove marie but keep the rest of the stuff golden added. That would easily be my favorite Persona game. And leave the ost alone.
@@persona3rulez that is why I was surprised with Yatzee reaction, the themes and story seem to be right up his alley.
[SPOILER]
the fact the game plot basically resumes into "the world is gonna end and there is nothing you can, its not you fault and its not happening out of malice, its just how it is. enjoy your last moments"
Yay glad you finally did P3 Yahtzee I enjoyed your humor here as much as I enjoyed it when you did P4 and P5.
And a new generation of gamers gets to enjoy the 'putting an evoker to your head' bit, now in HD!
Not as controversial as it used to it seems
It's ok, everyone has the prerogative to be incorrect. Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES are in fact the best ones because I said so.
That said I doubt he had time to do the side content that isn't directly linked to the critical path in some form.
This review sounds like Yahtzee i trying to hate on P3 but doesn't know exactly how, so he's just going "it looks boring" and doesn't really give any reasons.
Fully Ramblomatic indie rock track of the week: Erasing The Past by the Perving Operators (with guest vocals from Flower of Girlhood and her dad)
5:24 - wow, he really IS a Persona fan.
P3 dosen't have someone saying the phrase "Shitty adults!" or "For REAL?!" every 20 minutes so that alone makes it superior to 5.
thats one point of view. Another is that everyone is that its full of 90s Teen edgelord characters
@@MrSmokinDragonbruh. Being depressed and having past trauma doesn’t make you “edgy” lol
@@MrSmokinDragon the coddled life of ppl who think like that are enviable
Look, I don't want any toast, and he doesn't want any toast. In fact, no one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. No toast. Or muffins. Or muffins. We don't like muffins around here. We want no muffins, no toast, no teacakes, no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns and definitely no smegging flapjacks. 0:28
Spot on there mate. I really enjoy P3 Reload, and I am a fan of the new mechanics being put into an older game, as it makes moving between them much smoother. Having said that, the age of the game shows through Tartarus and the very small explorable area. I wondered how P3 Portable didn't cut out all that made the game great by just being a visual novel with dungeon crawling, but really, you didn't do much exploring in the base game anyway, the map is bloody tiny.
Persona 3: "Do you want me to explain the basics of combat? You can say No, it's fine."
Persona 3 Reload: "LET ME STOP YOU SO WE CAN EXPLAIN HOW ITEM BOXES WORK!"
I don’t have the evidence to back this up, but I truly believe that the remake existing is going to get a lot of people to check out P3 Portable just to play as Femc. Those who wouldn’t had a good chance of never buying Portable or Fes anyway, so it’s cool that they got to experience the story and characters in some form.
Such a shame they decided to gut sone FES and all of Portables content
Now the question is oblivion or DLC
Don't worry, they'll repackage this one again with all the expanded content in a year when the price for games is up to $100 a pop and sell it for full price... it's Atlus we're talking about here
Persona Q2 did that for me.
I love Persona 3 Reload, but I mean, his criticisms aren't wrong
I do adore it though. lol
IMO the sign of a good game is one that is still good despite it's flaws. If you can articulate problems with a games design, story, art style, whatever you want and yet it still wins you over that means it's doing something right. There is no "perfect" game, everyone is going to have at least some warts. The best games are so well made in some or many fashions that you can overlook the warts and still enjoy your tits off.
@@estefencosta1835 Sorry, but this sounds like a cope. I’ve been juggling Hades and P3R and Hades is “amazing in just about every way” whereas P3R is “riddled with problems.” You don’t have to look past the flaws if the game doesn’t have that many flaws to begin with. Admittedly they’re different styles of games, but come on, a good game is a good game and a flawed game is a flawed game
@@tweeeeeex What exactly am I coping for? I've never even played a Persona game.
I'm going to go and try to cope with this comment now. We're all coping with the situation.
@@estefencosta1835I’m saying that your assessment of what makes a good game is misguided. The best games are not the ones where you can “overlook the warts,” the best ones are the ones that don’t have warts to begin with.
Come on my dawg, think about it. Don’t excuse poor quality. Expect better from your games. Don’t tolerate nonsense.
@@tweeeeeex It's sunny and clear today.
They really will make EVERYTHING but Persona 6 at this point, will they?
persona 3 ultra max deluxe version is next
Remake p4g reloaded deluxe. And then ps6 when its five years later I wreckon.
I'm pretty sure Atlus already said that Persona 6 is next after this one, but I could be wrong.
I mean, it took like 8 years between 4 and 5. It hasn’t even been 6 years since 5 came out.
@@Villain_of_Overhype its been 9 years since persona 5 came, or will be 9 years this fall.
Actually, P5s Persona collection method was a return to form, P3 and P4 are like the only ones who have random card collecting method. P1, P2 and most of the SMT games use the convince them into your Persona sack method.
Not sure about P1, but in P2 it still didn’t work like that. P2 had you form contracts by making Demons like you over and over, eventually letting you ask them for Arcana cards that you could use in the Velvet Room to buy new Personas.
Look I know disagreeing with Yahtzee's opinion on a video game in 2024 is like complaining the sky is blue, but as someone who only played 4 and 5 before P3R, I was amazed at how fresh 3's story plays out. This game explores Personas and Shadows in ways that aren't even addressed in later entries. Like, had someone explained this story to me and then told me it was Persona 6's story, I'd believe them. So I don't think writing the narrative off is entirely fair.
(also SEES is still 8,000 times better than the Investigation Team)
Wow i wonder what copy of persona 5 you played where yusuke was "the serious boy"
Really disappointing we didn't get to hear Yahtzee describing getting hyped up for the ending by the comments or his peers before explaining it away with something like "yeah it works, whatever."
I'm glad I started with Persona 3. While 4 and 5 came with a cadre of refinements that improved the experience, 3 will always have that special place in my heart.
I like this new unhinged Yahtzee that ends a game review video with a pedophile joke.
I wonder if he wasn't able to make jokes like this under The Escapist.
He missed out on including a horse and late night roid beatings, though
I'm not sure how I feel about that joke honestly.
@@dayp68gaming20 honestly, the "expand to fill out training bra" bit pushed it into way too specific for me. That final punchline did not turn it into a funny IMO.
@@TCO_404 In Yahtzee's defense this joke is in the Persona 3 review, where he keeps stating that you date teenage girls in it. It was a buildup to a joke he more or less wouldn't make elsewhere unless appropriate.
It's kinda funny to hear Yahtz complain about remaking an unpolished fan-favorite, when he had no interest in playing the original anyway.
Hard to judge but it sounds like he hasn't finished it yet. Hope we get some followup content if and when he does since any effusive Persona 3 praise always begins with people talking about how much they love the ending. Even if he has finished it and is still this lukewarm, I'd be very interested in hearing his spoiler takes on what did and didn't work for him.
Yeah him not mentioning Shinji as a party member makes me think he's only in like late summer, before most of the major story beats and character moments really start happening
A lot of P3's reputation is from memoryholing most of its highs are extremely backloaded. Like 50 hours in backloaded. The rest of it might as well be a 6 out of 10 2000s modern fantasy anime at the height of the first Fate's popularity.
THANK YOU! The first half of P3 is such a drag. The highs are the absolute highs in the series, but they happen in the final third of the game.
Thank you…ending is nice and it’s well done. But ppl act like the story hasn’t been done in shonen sci fi anime a million times before
I've been waiting for this!!!!
Yahtzee: I can't stand the wackiness of you eventually unlocking a dog as a party member.
Also Yahtzee: This game where your first party member is a cat is absolutely amazing!
The irony with Persona 3 is that most of the big nitpicks were addressed with the female protagonist and subsequent complete revamp of the story and Social Links in the PSP Remake, which then... did not get included in this remake.
Persona 3 may lack polish but it really felt like the most compelling story in the series thus far. Making it like P5 really waters down the journey of what Persona has become. Reload is mainly a cosmetic upgrade and will do the usual Atlus FOMO double-dip.
Yet as an overall story experience in 5 is still better because how bad the pacing is in 3 with so much nothing happening in 3 until like the last 3rd of the game other than just waiting around for a full moon and new party members just joining up...
I like the stories of 3 and 5 the most honestly. I agree otherwise
@@V-Jes how bad the pacing is in 3?
@systolicshift6645 it takes over 10 hours to get your basic battle costume on the cover of Reload. That should give you the idea how bad the pacing is without giving any major story spoilers etc, and that's still in very early game...
@@V-Jesthis means literally nothing, you realize it takes 4 hours to get to jokers awakening in p5 right? Makoto at least does it in the first 2
I love persona games, but I will admit that this one wore me down slightly after I played for what would be enough time to complete a full metroidvania game and the story introduced exactly 2 plot developments. I’ll probably pick it up again at some point though
Persona 3's biggest fault IS its unevenness. When you reach the 40 hour mark, the story explodes and is impossible to look away from.
Thing is, you could argue the same thing about P4. Nothing really develops in the main story until like Mitsuo’s dungeon. Everything before that is basically just “rescue someone from the TV world and gets some vague clue that probably isn’t gonna matter anyway” or “have fun at Junes”
@@Villain_of_Overhype I’d say you’re definitely right. I suppose it was the subjective matter of me enjoying the “flavor” of persona 4’s cast and social link’s more immediately to where I hardly even blinked when it took over an hour to see combat in that game. Not to say I don’t enjoy those things in p3r, it just hasn’t grabbed me as effectively
@@ronaldquinlan4791Yeah that’s completely fair. I think Reload did a lot to try and mend that by adding lots of optional scenes with the party interacting, but it still feels a bit jarring and very slow
We can always appreciate the serenity of yahtzee getting backstabbed by a game studio, slowly eating at the good things that he likes in a game and will probably never see them again.
To this day, after beating P3 twice, and playing and loving P4 & P5, I still don't understand why this is hyped as one of the best ones.
It's probably because it put Persona on the map. P3-P5 follow roughly the same pattern but P1 and P2 were a lot more traditional Shin Megami Tensei. Hardcore games that are more focused on being disturbing than a light horror romcom.
I'm guessing it was a lot of peoples first Persona game, so they have a lot of bias towards it.
1 & 2 definitely need to be remade very well imo. 5 was great, but it's luster has really faded with age because of how hard Atlus has milked it. & 4s cast turns me off, while before I ever played 5, 3 always looked like it had the most interesting party/group. But P3P has a lot of QoL that Reload has that makes it kinda sucky even if it's mod'ed & emulated.
Still weird why SMT keeps getting locked onto Nintendo hardware but Persona doesn't, Nocturne was cross platform but SMT IV & V had to be kept on crappy switch hmph
I mean there’s like 3 modern Persona games lmao. “One of the best ones” when there’s only three doesn’t mean much.
Okay, that last joke was visible 20 miles away but it still caught me off guard. You seem much happier than you were under your previous overlords.
Okay, hear me out. I agree with most of this, but by the end of the day/game I surprised myself by... actually liking P3's story way better than P5??? P5's story bits were all about twists that didn't land as well as the game thought they did. P3's story is all about loss and the many ways people deal with it.
And some (read: SOME) of the social links are done so well, too. If nothing else, just speed through the main story so you get the experience. Oh, and so you're prepared for if/when Atlus drops the The Answer epilogue as dlc 😂
It won't be DLC, this is Atlus... they'll repackage the whole thing in a year for full price (probably after the base game price increases to $100 because "reasons")
@@genlando327plays2pretty sure it was leaked by a reliable leaker (who was right on many things about this remake) that the Answer will in fact be dlc
@@genlando327plays2 Yeah, you may be right. But I always console myself with the fact that at least we're better off than Pokemon fans. Pokemon fans are forced to buy two versions of virtually the same game, both of which are going to be a soul-less cash grab that's worse than Palworld. Atlus is gonna make us buy the "ultimate" version, but at least it will be good content.
@@Villain_of_OverhypeThey'll release The Answer as DLC, but then they'll do a definitive edition of the game that has even more content and that'll be a full price re-release.
I actually replayed Persona 3 a couple years ago, my first playthrough was years ago on PSP and the more recent second time was FES on the PS3 - a couple years after beating P5.
It really is this great, offbeat experience. Like Christ the Social Links can be terrible, like the Moon arcana. But the Sun arcana (if the Sun arcana is the guy on the park bench, it's been a while) is my favorite social link in the series, bar NONE.
It's a very dark and melancholy story with a surprisingly brave ending, even considering the almost twenty years since the game came out. The way things escalate is really unsettling and depressing, and I love how the game is about grief and despair and looking death in the face. I love P5's plot too, it's a fun game with a lot of personality and soul, but for all of the shocking, stylish story moments it has, there's a pulpy veneer to it all that doesn't get as "real" as P3 does.
That being said, I love pulpy veneer, and P5 pulls it off perfectly. It's probably the perfect expression of itself. P3 is a bit jankier, but I can see how the through-line cuts deeper and how the plot's... less-homogenous aspects, compared to P4 and P5, are more of a treat. It's a great game.
Persona 3 Reload removes a lot of stuff that made Persona 3 interesting and replaces it with stuff that made Persona 5 interesting. Overall results in kind of a sidegrade, but I guess it's less rough around the edges for more casual players so that's kind of a plus.
Persona 3 is great in a lot of ways but it does suffer from first game syndrome where a lot of the ideas weren't fleshed out fully. I wouldn't have minded if they replaced some of the social links from the original version with new ones based around your party but I get why they didn't.
They should've straight up removed the Gourmet King social link in this remake.
@@Kermthefrog They could have done away with most of the male ones and replaced them with the SEES members. Kaz is about someone frustratingly breaking his legs for 10 ranks and Kenji is a weird creep.
@@Kermthefrog I actually liked that one. Other games with rare exceptions social links feel very sterile. P3 you hang out with an alcoholic monk, a guy who's dying, a shady TV salesman, and a cultist. P5 especially suffers from this.
if there's one thing to take from this video, it's that everybody acknowledges how insane the persona summoning animation in p3 was.
The only problem with the P3 Rerelease is the price is insane. Not high and not bad, but actually insane.
seeing Yhatzee so eagerly awaiting for Persona 6 is pretty funny considering how he doesn't have a good relationship with both anime nor jrpgs.
Sure would have been weird to release this less than 12 months after already dropping P3P for everyone to play.
You actually did negotiate directly with enemies for personas in Persona 1 and 2.
Is one of the best games
While you are absolutely right about everything, i personally was really drawn into the game by how unphased the player character was when entering the nightmare city.
Ah yes my favorite type of reviewer. Someone who goes into a game with a negative bias against the game and already wrote it off before it started. Writing off persona 3s story because you see an anime game and to you every girl is a only just a discount waifu and not a character tied to the main theme of the story its trying to tell.
Settle down kiddo
I don't always agree with Yahtzee, but it's nice to see him casually explain exactly what I didn't like about remakes as a whole, including RE4.
I disagree with Yahtzee about remakes. It doesn't erase history because the original still exists, and in the case of Persona 3 there are multiple versions to choose from, vanilla, FES, and Portable (yes it counts). On top of that, you get a more direct way to see how a series has evolved over the years.