God = Science? | The Atheist Experience: Throwback
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
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“God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance”. -Neil DeGrasse Tyson. (My hero!)
Mine too!
Neil deGrasse Tyson is all for transwoman competing against women! Have you seen the boxing match in the Olympics where the woman got destroyed by the man?
It can also be a tool used by people with hierarchical power in society to beat back progress that threatens their perceived superiority and comfort
@@LovelyIslandVacation-ch6wo I truly believe this was it's original intent. I base it on the fact the bible mentions putting Kings in place. Also, I feel the bible was never intended for the general public to even read. It was intended for priests to use and interpret as required in order to control the people. Priests have been twisting and turning the words in the bible to manipulate whatever situation is in front of them for the betterment of the church which was essentially controlled by the King and used as an alternative way to control the people without them knowing.
@@LovelyIslandVacation-ch6wo As always, got censored and said nothing bad. I believe Kings had the bible written, hence in the bible it says god appoints Kings. The bible was created for control and nothing more.
Nice callers like this one make me sad. He isn't a bad person and he wasn't being rude. He even admitted to not having a rational evidence based reason to believe in god, yet he still chose to believe because it made him feel good. This is a clear display of how religion is like a dangerous drug; it causes otherwise good people to do irrational, and sometimes harmful, things.
"It seems to me that with or without religion good people will behave well and bad people will do evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
At least he was being honest and listening. That’s the road to skepticism.
@@vincentranger09 The etymology of the word religion is Latin. Rome. Hinduism and Buddhism don't use that new label. It's called Dharma. Columbus labeled native Americans Indians. Is that what native Americans called themselves?
@@democrat7441and this helped further the conversation in what way?
@@DK666999 Understanding the ethnocentric word called religion. It's the same as native Americans being called Indians by a foreign culture. For sure the Latin world thought everything begins with their religion the only valid one they think.
"Let me tell you my interpretation"
That said it all.
Stellar evolution described in the Judean holy book--where?! Then caller giggles when his error is called out. "Yeah, it's a mistake, but I choose to perpetuate it, so kinda it's not a mistake."
"That's a really good point, actually." At least he can recognize solid logic when he hears it, and gives it due credit. 👍🏾
I felt sorry for that guy. He agreed with every point that MD made, then moved on to another item on his list. I wonder if, after these seven years had passed, he reconsidered every point he agreed with and quit the superstitious life.
Quitting comes with consequences, and it's something people who never experienced or undergone religion overlooks and thinks it's some kind of simple toggle switch you can so easily undo
@@Anti-FreedomD.P.R.ofSouthKorea
Too true
Saying tot ziens to comfortable klompen is the same as giving up religious superstition-painful in many ways. Adopting adult thinking happens when we discover the myth of a sky father-bear.
This guy reminds me of something my therapist once said to me. The more intelligent and smart one is, the more complex the traps one makes for him/her/themself.
This caller is not smart and not all that intelligent.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver He seemed extremely self aware and is a physics grad student, you have to be pretty smart and intelligent to have both of those things under your belt
@@dandrechesterfield5411 Religious faith undoes all of it.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Nah I don't think so. You can say there's not enough evidence to prove god but you can also say there's not enough evidence to disprove god either so you end up agnostic but with a hope that there is more than materialism and hold out hope for some sort of spiritual reality. There's nothing too irrational about that especially if it's just a personal belief and you're not a zealot.
@@dandrechesterfield5411 " you can also say there's not enough evidence to disprove god"
You are able to say that, but it's a phony statement. Why would you try to prove something can't exist? Utterly dead-end non-thinking.
"a hope that there is more than materialism"
That's neither science nor physics. It's fantasy.
"hold out hope for some sort of spiritual reality"
That's neither science nor physics. It's fantasy.
"There's nothing too irrational about that"
It's totally irrational to apply fantastic supernatural hopes to the study of nature.
"especially if it's just a personal belief"
Which has no place in science nor physics.
When John says he is a science student, I believe him. The problem with being a scientist is you won't be a good scientist if you work backwards from a conclusion or if you jump to conclusions. His problem is he loves the empiricism of science but has a tough time reconciling it with magic.
This has got to be one of the few Christians who comes across as sensible enough to be open to honest debate.
As I'm listening to the show, it has occurred to me and seems to be lost on people, that attempting to use reason to justify the belief in God is pointless and defeats the whole purpose of religion. The purpose of religion is to destroy the reliance on reason through relying on faith.
The entire gambling analogy is precisely why gambling is a drug. Just like religion
The sound was the device losing connecitvity to a device and then immediately re-establishing it. as if you were unplugging and plugging back in a USB device
Some religious say science proves God, while other religious claim science can never prove God, other religious say science is a conspiracy and science denies God... Religious claims are all a damn jokefest 😂
"The genesis myth aligns with science..."
Meanwhile in the genesis myth: The sun was created after plants.
What a clown....
Wow, just wow. What an amazing call. It's all part of the journey to finally realizing and accepting.
The first command God issued to Adam and Eve was Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat". Christianity's God forbid humans to have knowledge. This was never going to be a utopian relationship.
"The way to Utopia is across a sea of blood".
The caller's use of the term 'macro-evolution' suggests he's not quite the scientific seeker he presents himself as.
Atheism was presented to people like a fashion trend, it was decorated with the name of freedom, the person who denies will not be held accountable, he will live freely in the world, but this is wrong, everyone will die, he will be resurrected on the day of judgement, he will be held accountable, those who do good will be rewarded, the last religion is Islam. Islam orders us to do good to parents, relatives and orphans, and it tells us to lie, slander, drink, gamble, and adultery. It prohibits sins etc.
Ian,
I couldn't disagree with you more. His use of "macro-evolution" shows me that he is an overwhelmingly scientific seeker because he is using this term to separate himself from fundamentalist creationists, who say they believe in micro-evolution, but not macro-. He was saying that, unlike them, he accepts not just micro-evolution, but also macro-evolution.
Yes, this is an assumption on my part, but it is the only way I can make sense of his use of the term. Listening to him, while he may be mistaken about finding Genesis coherent with modern science, I find that he seems more than well enough educated to understand that the term "evolution" does not need the prefix "macro-" to make the point he was trying to make.
If YOU want to be treated with charity, Ian, then you need to treat others, like this caller, with charity. And, Ian, we all need to be treated with charity (myself included), at least sometimes.
@@victorbernard6544 I'm probably just jaded after listening to too many Christians.
@@victorbernard6544
Victim,
you, victim, do, victim, realize, victim, that, victim, micro, victim, and, victim, macro, victim, does, victim, not, victim, actually, victim, exist, victim.
Victim?
I think what he's trying to say is that him having faith in his religion makes him feel good
What would it matter if people constantly asked god to get them out of situations? A) They already do B) God chooses whether or not to help them anyway.
I just love how truthful honesty destroys most human minds!
With his gambling analogy he let accidentally slip that he is addicted to faith... Explains a lot.
well i wont comment on assumptions but i will say, when i went to Gamblers Anonymous they gave me 3:1 odds i couldnt make it.
The caller said "I'm a Christian and I know God is infinite". Whoaaaaaaa ! ......... HOW does he know that ? People say the darndest things do they not ?
Misty likely from Ray Comfort, because he knows that.
There's no such thing as an honest theist.
Billions didn't exist because the 0 didn't exist....
The concept of zero didn't exist, but there were counters that fountain the current concept of 0. X, L, C all contain concepts of where we now use 0 used by Romans. Pretty sure the Chinese counters are also preceding a 0
I always imagine the 2nd day's, "let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters" to be a really primitive explanations of how water gets up in the sky to rain, and possibly even to answer "why is the sky blue?" --- but so far off base we don't even register it as an explanation anymore. Was it ever interpreted as an explanation? If so, that might have been a fruitful response to the motivated reasoning behind the "physics consistent with genesis" statements.
Thank you for the reupload
This is what religion does to this guy: it makes him completely dishonest, albeit not intentionally, not just to the hosts but also himself.
@josephmartin5483 Hair and a chair? That was enough to convince you of what now? A ghost dimension? You discovered all that from your neck hair and a moving chair??
@josephmartin5483Or someone is messing with you with string tied to the chair, playing horror music at a really low volume, or it's your imagination. There are other explanations for it other than supernatural happenings.
@josephmartin5483 Like how I hear sounds at night in my own house, but when I check no one's there? Or when I'm using the computer, I get the feeling of someone behind me when I'm alone? Lol
@josephmartin5483dumb enough to think anyone would believe your claim.
@josephmartin5483 And yet it's just as believable as what I said. All you have is a story, just like aliens abducted me and probed my butt, or I met Jesus and he told me to do handstands in public. All are equally believable and convincing. If we could investigate your experience with, say, video recordings just as an example, then it would have some more merit. But all you did is tell a story. Cool story, bro.
I hate it when someone talks for 5 minutes straight for context. I prefer and enjoy a rather straight concise argument without the fluff and dancing around.
I find it fascinating that Theists like @Sam-fd2ym will demand evidence of non-existence, but when they get asked a simple question like "what is the process you use to prove something is true?" they always run. It's almost like they know they can't intellectually honest.....
It's more likely they thought they had a clever script and then you asked them something they didn't have a "goto" for....
@@t800fantasm2 Yeah, I have a bad habit of breaking scripts. It's terrible the way engage in critical thinking and consistent logic, LOL
@Sam-fd2ym which is you saying that you do not actually know what it is that you claim you know.
@Sam-fd2ym For me there are things like gravity or the shape of the earth that require evidence like photos, experiments, the ability to make predictions, etc. and all be consistent with reality to be proven true. A god would fall into that or anything super natural really as we need something that we can examine to prove it exists. And then there are things like someone saying they have a pet dog at home that doesn’t really need proof because it’s reasonable to just be live a person has a dog because many people have dogs. I’d like to think I have a sound episiotomy and I’d be curious as to what yours is
When you know you can’t demonstrate what you say is true you have to do anything to get away from talking about it.
Ask them “how can we demonstrate your god exists” or “how can we demonstrate your version of god is more accurate than anyone else’s” it always breaks the script. Along with asking them to demonstrate HOW god “created” anything.
33:07, Bro just destroyed my browser, best coincidence ever
This was a soon too be atheist.. he was clearly mutch more intelligent then the most of the callers 🙌
There is an accomplished scientists who saw a frozen waterfall in three pieces and and felt to his knees and converted on the spot, because he took it for the Trinity or a sign from it. So don't underestimate indoctrination.
16:50 Just because you can't understand quantum chormodynamics, does that mean the academics writing a text book should not speak concisely and accurately but instead speak in vague and oft errant metaphor? No! Any explanation of reality should be as accurate as possible.
Does anybody know if John called back in another show? I really liked this honest conversation
I have never heard anyone believe in God who did not assume it was true and the rest of the time they look for arguments to confirm their beliefs.
Confirmation Bias: the most evil activity of the mind.
@@Sam-fd2ymwrong I lack a belief in gods since there is zero evidence for their existence
@@Sam-fd2ymyou're actually wrong, most of us do not deny any God. We are simply unconvinced that a God does exist, provide your evidence for your God and if you meet the burden of proof I will happily believe you. Unlike the theist my mind is open and I welcome anyone to change my mind with facts and data, I have changed my mind on a great number of topics. My beliefs are not fixed unlike the religious cult followers.
@@Sam-fd2ym Since you have *ZERO GOOD EVIDENCE* that some kind of g0d exists I have no good reason to believe that any g0d exists. That makes me an atheist. What exactly is the problem here?
so sad for the caller being a physics major and compartmentalizing his critical reasoning to protect his tribal hebrew mythology from scrutiny. what is more disturbing is that he gets the science wrong to fit his biblical universe.
Well sad, and I am rarely impressed!
When people say “macro-evolution” ALWAYS ask them to cite where they learned that term from. Because it’s always to say that things that are easier to see are true but the things that require effort aren’t.
There’s no difference between macro/micro evolution. How is it these people never go to an actual source to get an actual education on the topic they use to scapegoat the fact that they can’t demonstrate their god?
Shows a lack of honesty and cognitive capacity.
i think the worst part of being Christian is that you believe in unjustifiable concepts (regarding 30:10) and making life decisions based on these.
Dear Theists,
What is the process you use to determine something is real/true/exists?
Also, define "exists".
Seems odd. But you seem to figure a thing can exist in a way other than "consisting of matter". So.....
Well, God exists beyond space and time!
Seems like God "exists" in no place, for no amount of time, made out of no-things. One could almost draw a conclusion out of it... Hmm...
A real supreme creator is an inherent and provable contradiction. If you allow real contradictions then you allow every possible concept to be true - a clearly irrational position that leads to perpetuation of unreasonable suffering. Choose carefully what you accept, all our well-being depends on it.
Is he an actual practicing Physicist?😳 Or did Ron DeSantis hire him to teach non-woke Physics here in Florida?🤣🤣🤣
Its a joke, I get it its a haha but it does say he’s in wisconsin
Sorry
@@patrickmcelrath4962Ron could still hire him to teach down here and he should be happy here in Florida. On our one mile strip of main street alone we have 7 churches.
Humans often sin, but this behaviour is optional.
God should go to settings, preferences, creation, humans, modify,
Then in the drop-down menu, select "allow sin", click "no" and save.
Yours is admin-focused. For users I wonder about whether/which of sins are pre-ticked options awaiting click-to-accept-all.
@@brucebaker810
I have installed "I don't care about sin", so God doesn't bother me.
"Oh no, I feel the evidence does lead to that"
How in the flying-fuck does the Big Bang make it clear that a Jewish carpenter from the 1st century had magic powers, and that by being tortured to death we now get the opportunity to praise an invisible personality, lest we be tortured forever in a lake of fire?
Square this circle please.
I find it interesting that a good hearted individual like this gentleman who is seeking answers is leading to his own frustration. If he simply said that he believed in God and Jesus Purely because it gives him comfort and he has no rational reason for it. I would respect him and his views and agree to disagree and possibly be good friends.
I, for the most part agree but, I will never respect any religion.
@@Rob-fc9wg hi thanks for the reply. This is another half agreement. I absolutely hate organised religion and consider them the greatest cause of suffering on the planet. But feel sorry for those that got lost along the way that seem genuine.
Cheers from Australia 🦘🦘🦘
I love how in the same sentence he tells us that string theory doesn’t count because it’s unfalsifiable, he tells us that god is also unfalsifiable.
*Totally unrelated - I just learned completely by accident how to type in bold letters from my iPad* 🙂
By surrounding your text with asterisks?
*like this?*
@@Olyfrun Yep 😂
*boldly go*
You're right! That IS totally unrelated 😮
From the creators of "God is Love", comes "God is Science".
God will do to science… what JAWS did to the ocean!
@josephmartin5483
The capacity to make rational, logical methods for learning is a human capacity, and just because the point in history when our notions about the history of "science" in a modern way happen to have tied into a period when churches held the most powerful societal and cultural institutions, that doesn't mean the institutions get credit for the people who actually helped form scientific methods. The origins of science predate your church, predate their fairy tale god-man. Although some of the formal strictures we use today were certainly enacted by people who were engaging in research under the auspice of church authority, it in no way credits church authority with those ideas.
When the Catholic church was in power over the lives of certain very privileged white people who had to appeal to the same church--which controlled the vast majority of source texts of learning from across the world--to gain access to their libraries, then sure: the context of that learning and idea formation occurred under "religious" purview, but it was also the very same church which they had to struggle _against_ in order to give their ideas any air or traction. If anything, the history behind the formation of the scientific method is more an indictment of religions institutions--who often punished early scientific efforts with excommunication, imprisonment and/or torture--than in any way indicative of their "contribution" to things.
There's a Crash Course series on the History of Science that can give you some broad strokes about just how science came to be as we know it today, and it's quite well presented (if somewhat frantic in pace). Watch it, and you'll see that religion was more an attempt at pet ownership over the feral passions for scientific pursuits than an actual contributor.
@josephmartin5483 What's the point you're trying to make? I never said anything about religion.
Calendars aren't science. Anyone can create a way to track time in regular intervals, no religion or science needed.
@@patrickmcelrath4962Swim in it?
@josephmartin5483what does an arbitrary calendar have to do with anything?
I like how her notes the absurdity of Buddhist creation, then proceeds to make excuses for and rationalize the oddities and problems with his interpretation of Christian creation.
Whatever happened with John from Wisconsin?
Free tech tip: If Windows is constantly making those "disconnected" / "connected" / "device ready" noises, then check the cables.
It's likely a loose connection in the cables, so Windows is detecting the device, connecting to it, then - oops - lost it. Then it comes back, so Windows tries to connect to it again. Then loses it. Then connects. Then disconnects.
Likely, the cable's knackered. A loose connection, so the signal is coming and going all the time. Replace the cable, once you've worked out which one it is (which you can do, of course, by a process of elimination, unplugging stuff until it stops happening and that's the cable that's causing the problem).
They wish they knew this seven years ago
Does the Tower of Babel story further muddle the idea of a book being the innerant word of a god?
Gen. 11:7 " Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (NKJV)
This feels really counterproductive.
Yeah, it is like god is the one who did a science project and was lucky to get a D because he really messed up.
People in their time have always thought that they were right. The objective type knows he can only be wrong.
Here's a worldview that guarantees you won't constantly be reaching out to a god for help: atheism.
Atheism isn’t a world view. Its a lack of belief in other’s world views
Atheism isn’t a world view. But you’re absolutely correct on the second part
There is no connection between science and any of the gods. Like there is no connection between grass and sports. No Cause and Effect with 500 flavors.
Okay does that now mean God = Not having to do boring AF ritual activities like worship and prayer?
Gambling analogous to faith?
Gambling is addictive. But if it failed 100% of the time (ie no win ever), it would fail.
It requires a success at least some of the time.
What is the "win" analog with faith? Thing that could happen (or not) ... happens (or doesnt)?
Before i shed the rest of my religion, I was pretty clise to where this caller is. I excepted that yhe bible was largely bs because man is fallible and man wrote the book. Obviously god works within nature. After a while i stopped thinking about it because not having satisfying sucked and I confused myself with the lack of answers. Then i found the Atheist Experience. I learned that everyone's reason for believing was ae dumb as mine. At this point they largely fall back on philosophy for their points. But all thiests fall apart at the details.
I have never heard a religious argument that goes anywhere near standing up to secular reasoning!
Can you still pass exams by answering with "God dun it" 🤔
I don't know about now, but I definitely credit 2 things with my grade in OAC Biology (exactly 80%). The fact that I wrote at the top, on every page of the exam, "If there's a god, I'll pass with an 80%"
also, I'd made it clear throughout the semester that if I didn't get an 80, I'd be retaking the class following semester (small school, only the one bio prof).
*I'm very much not the sort of student that teachers want repeating their classes, lol*
(no doubt some creationist can find "god's will" at work, but let's be fair, nobody wants me in their class)
....It's probably worth noting, for context, that when my teacher told me I'd gotten an 80 in the class, the dialogue went like this:
"Congratulations! You passed. You're finishing with an 80, right on the nose"
"Bullshit!"
"I'm serious."
".....how? I left over half the exam blank..."
"I dunno, the numbers just worked in your favour, I guess."
"uhhh....what about the independent study. That was supposed to be 30% of the final grade..."
"You got a 90% that's what tipped the scales from a B to an A"
"ok.....but we both know I never did the independent study"
"No, but I'm sure you will"
"right....after the semester has ended, and my marks have been submitted, I'm going to --"
"If you hand me any few pages of notes - just notes you took in class - that'll do."
What do you guys think: God's hand at work, or my charming, likeable disposition? It sure wasn't coursework, determination and hard work...
In Alabama and Florida, probably
@@TheSnoeedogneither, teachers routinely bump grades for the financial rewards they need from the government. Are you suggesting your God cares about privileged middle class simpletons but not babies with malaria and cancer? Sounds like a pretty insidious and evil entity to me in which case you are quite welcome to your sadistic God.
I passed my anatomy class by praying, i got a A but i prayed for A+. I studied too and went to class everyday but i asked god for a A+
@@tsudagenam6292 Did you do any work?
"A beginning, and then an Earth..." WHAT? You just skipped over 9.24B years of cosmology! You got some 'splaining to do, Lucy!
Where was light coming from if light was created before the sun, the moon, and the stars?
The Moon doesn't produce light.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver I never said it did
But you listed it with the stars and if there are no starts, there is no Moon illuminating anything.
John, could you be the WORST "scientist" on this planet? Well…all the signs are there, brother😅😅😅😅😅
There is no free will - you can look into that topic - but without free will - Everything in religion falls apart.
Correlation does not equal causation...
Correction: Correlation _does not always imply_ causation.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver I do not accept your "correction"!
Causation means one thing causes another-in other words, action A causes outcome B. On the other hand, correlation is simply a relationship where action A relates to action B-but one event doesn't necessarily cause the other event to happen.
@@nigeltrigger4499 Not my correction. You stated it wrong. Example: tides correlate to the Moon's orbit in relation to both Sun and Earth. This relationship causes tides in Earth's oceans (and lithosphere and atmosphere).
You repeated exactly what I said.
I don't think there's anything wrong or harmful with him choosing to believe. It's just like adding a little wonder to your life. He's pretty logical and self aware so he doesn't fully fit the category of religious people who blindly truly believe. He's making a conscious decision and when you think about it, we're only here for a short time so you might as well believe what you want and what enriches your life and experience here if it doesn't harm others. It sounds like his belief makes him more kind so I don't get the feeling he's a judgmental christian.
It is like schizophrenia, except he controls it without medication. Also, innocent on the paper and irrational believes can be unpredictably harmful.
I question his claim that he's a physics major after he stated that there were all sorts of different evolution, in science there is only one type of evolution. Colloquially there are different types of evolution if he doesn't know there is a difference then he isn't a student of any science.
Why would a god try to spread his word through one small place? China and India had huge populations to speak to yet the abrahamic god chose a tiny strip of the mediterranean coast?😂 All the stories are full of holes and childish at best for primitive people. What a great tool for an emperor to use as his first line of security
It's not a point, it's a question.
he started like that (4:41 and 5:41 and 6:45) but later on managed to avoid that answer. :-)
you cannot be a scientist and Christian and be honest at the same time it just does not work .. its like being a pascificst and a mercenarry .. these things are mutually exclusive
You can and many scientists are. I don't understand it thought. It is like having a schizophrenia when they at work follow scientific method and at home and on Sundays are religious.
There's no such thing as an honest theist!
@@Rob-fc9wg well there probably is but that does make them even more ignorant
OOOOGA BOOOOGA, god wuubs you.
This guy is making his own argument against his own beliefs.
you guys sure those noises were coming from a near by computer? That could be the work of the God.
Also this caller's whole faith analogy around people being remembered in history is very selective because you're not including all the people that failed and died in agony and destitute. For every one person that found success and fame there's probably 10 to 100s of people that failed miserably but still spent their entire life grinding away to try to find that same success.
this man is doing the ultimate god of the gaps, If the man studies physics, then i am going to be the next president.
6:46
Bats aren't birds. Bats are bugs.
Fish aren't food. They're friends.
-- another Bruce
@@brucebaker810 "Salad isn't food. Salad comes WITH the food" -- John Pinette
@@woega Salad. Not food. But food-adjacent.
Never in human history has a mystery of nature or question of science turned out be explained by magic, make believe or the supernatural. NEVER.
Which doesn't meant it will never be ;)
@@pavel9652
Oh FFS mate!
Those in history who tried the most were the most bloodthirsty and were responsible for a lot of death and suffering.
As someone who lives in Wisconsin, I just wanna make it very clear I was not born in Wisconsin 😂
😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Onya mate 👍
When you separate views on god and science it opens huge amounts of knowledge, views, ideas, possibilities, options and constantly more questions. to be answered. The bible is a very limiting document. Especially If it is taken literally. There are many other views on philosophy and spiritually alone. As well as history that helps us understand Christianity.
LOL! Uses gambling as an analogy to faith? Suggesting we are addicted because of the highs and lows of it? WRONG SIR!! If I was gambling and winning every single time, only then would I be addicted to gambling. If having faith truly worked and we were constantly rewarded with greatness, wealth and health for being faithful, I would absolutely be addicted to being faithful.
The interesting point is if one is an atheist why entertain a title or possibility of a creator. I was never indoctrinated into any religion, though looked into Hinduism and Buddhism as alternative as in meditation. I figure life only lasts a period of time then we die, and nothingness after that. Thus religions and the discussion of that topic is interesting it is still a waste of time to myself for it does not help my life, or improve my life. Life happens thus I accept things as events and move on.
Some of Genesis holds water. Really?
The verses about water "hold" water.
I have yet to see how the different versions of the Bible are an actual problem. When it comes to a debate over the existence of God.
As far as I can tell. The differences between them are irrelevant when it comes to any sort of conversation outside of one between two believers.
All of it is a problem.
Just not the biggest problem to notice how bullshit it is, but it's there.
It creates a MASSIVE issue cuz one bible might say no killing what so ever then the next says nah, just dont murder, that creates a massive fuckin issue cuz one outright says not to kill what so ever but the other does but only in defense of yourself or others.....
" of the Bible are an actual problem. "
The Bible, is essentially the only source for all the stories of your God.
It's just amazing that it's a a sheep loving book with over 500 references to sheep, flocks, lambs, shepherds and such was ONLY brought to a bunch of illiterate sheep herding superstitious people in the middle east. The only reference to sheep it missed is a recipe for mint sauce. The bible somehow never appeared anywhere else in the world, despite there being other civilizations, tribes and people's everywhere...
So the bible was given to these people that just happened to grow up in the same middle east that was home to older myths that oddly tell older versions of the same tales just slightly different from the Hebrew versions.
The Bible is a collection of borrowed stories and events that did not happen...
Genesis, was copied from the Egyptians..
It has errors, daytime is from sunrise to sunset, yet the sun was created on the 4th day?
Light created before the source of the light?
Jesus with a halo around his head was copied from the Egyptian Ankh symbol...
Noah's flood came from an older Sumerian myth and clearly could not and did not happen...
The story of Jesus was partly taken from other religions. Each of them, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, the Bible, all have a God coming to impregnate a human woman to create a demi-god.
Exodus didn't happen... It would have you believe that they escaped Egypt to go to Canaan, which was a province of Egypt at the time... and no one in Egypt documented the story.
There is nothing in the bible that was not knowledge to the people of that time.
No traveler ever went to another country outside the middle east and found them already worshiping the Bible God and already reading the Bible there.
It's a problem when Christians claim the version they use is the authorative version.
@joshsheridan9511 Why does there need to be one that is 'authoritative' when the differences don't affect the main claim? Why would an atheist care which one is considered authoritative?
With the Sun god thing, I've often wondered if the story of Christianity is the same symbolism, just personified and repackaged in a different way. I mean, we have religious holidays that happen to consistently coincide with solar events. The "rebirth of the Sun" at the spring Equinox and winter solstice (both representing new life). Motifs such as the halo around Jesus and his 12 (why 12?) disciples and phrases such as the "light of the world" and "risen saviour". There are also zodiac references in the Bible that may be allegorical to how ancient civilisations saw the movement of the heavens. When the "resurrection" of a human presenting being seems implausible, it makes sense to look at how that might be a more symbolic concept borrowed from ancient ritual and tradition, re-served as something that would centralise an authoritative doctrine that everyone would collectively be in tune with. We know these annual events were celebrated pre-Christianity in different ways and at the same times. So there is a sense of co-opting of observed ancient rituals by a more modern institution that I don't think can be ignored.
'With the Sun god thing"
The Egyptian creation myth is very similar to the Genesis story...
The Ankh symbol is very much like Jesus on a cross with a large halo around his head...
Most christian holidays happen on Pagan ones as Christianity sought to supplant previous festivals...
@@t800fantasm2 Thank you. I guess my question is then, why can't most Christians see the connection, even those who observe the historical basis of the myth? I mean it's pretty obvious even with just a casual glance.
@@epiphany55
"why can't most Christians see the connection"
Because for most, they are never taught the history and stories of other religions...
There are a lot of connections too that I think Christians almost pretend to not see...
Like the planet Venus rising in the morning was the morning star also the representation of the Roman goddess Venus, of love, sex and fertility...
Early Christianity seems to be an almost all male homosexual cult with women being shunned... (Almost all religions of the time, had a god coming to earth to have sex with a human woman to create a demi-god, but the Christian version he doesn't actually have sex with her)
So Venus became the symbol of evil to them... and that's why the Devil is also named Lucifer Morningstar, or the Lightbringer
The speech about hating how god works is why he called in to begin with 😐
And how many times this caller repeated…"that’s a fair point?"
Yeah, no, John. The Genesis 1-3 accounts do not gel with the Big Bang, cellular evolution, macroevolution, etc. At all. Not even with the most Stretch Armstrong of reaching or Simone Biles-level mental gymnastics. It doesn't hold some water; it holds no water. Zero water. The order of the Genesis 1 creation myth is directly in conflict with what we know about Big Bang cosmology and evolution.
And if he wants to play that game, the Quran also has a creation myth throughout its pages, most of which is similar to Genesis and, if interpreted in a theistic way through massive squinting, can be considered to align with aspects of Big Bang cosmology. So, John, you should believe in the Quran and become Muslim by your own standard.
It seems John is just a typical cultural Christian who is only a Christian because he was raised that way and is actively trying to find excuses to stick with something he barely practices and about which he knows very little because science is showing him things that are sowing doubts.
I see two likely outcomes for him. Either 1) He keeps going down this rabbit hole and eventually comes out on the side of atheism because there's too much conflict between creationism and science; or 2) He continues to try and reverse engineer science into the Biblical creation account, ignoring the actual evidence, and becomes more of a devout believer the older he gets. He may even one day when giving his "testimony" claim that he was previously an atheist all because he bad some doubts but then "found no conflict between science and Christianity." But eventually he's gonna have to stop sitting on the fence and playing this "Make two contradictory things cohesive" game. Doing so leaves you with bad science and bad faith.
The fact that god doesn’t exist kinda proves that god doesn’t exist 😅
It is a good reason to be cautious when a physics becomes a Christian
It's a good reason to be cautious when typing words in a post...but the typewriter might change the spelling.
*physicist?
Yeah, that's a good question. If you throw the bible out because you cannot trust the translation, or the provenance of the stories in it, how can you claim to be a Christian? Is it only because you follow the teachings of Christ that you like and vaguely remember? Because that doesn't seem to be a very good reason to call oneself a Christian! Lots of atheists follow some of the civilised teachings of Christ, and we see no reason to call ourselves Christian!
it also dont match up to the large meteor that hit the earth and caused the ice age.
Printing press made all Christianity popular.
He's young, and well on the path. He'll see the flaws in his logic in a decade or so
Under the doctrine of an "allknowing", but of course imaginary, god free will is logically not even possible! Because the imaginary god knows already BEFORE you are born what options you will choose and knows already before you are born what people will end up in an imaginary hell. To have free will you have to be able to choose between different options. But if you would choose another option that other option would already be part of your future and that imaginary god would also know that before you are even born, otherwise "he" would not be "allknowing! And although this imaginary god is also supposed to be "almighty" and "all loving" "he" does nothing to prevent that you will end up in an imaginary hell. That is also not compatible with the concept of an "all loving" god! That would be a celestial monster!
And what a morbid and cruel game would this celestial dictator be playing! "He" "created" the species of great apes imperfect and the "he" punishes them for eternity for being imperfect! So, "he" punishes people for "his" own bad design! Absurdity squared!
It's an insult to my intelligence and it should be an insult to the intelligence of everybody else including all the so-called believers!
Luckily there is not a shred of evidence for the existence of ANY god or Allah or whatever name they gave to their non-existing celestial dictator!
lol translation from one language to another shouldn't change the context of what is written.
In ideal world. There are words or phrases that don't translate well or have multiple meaning or we have lost it and have to make an educated guess, or even translators made a mistake.
According to the Bible.
God created everything in the universe.
And collected all the knowledge of good and evil from the entire universe and put it within our reach.
Then it's a blaspheme for us to ignore it.
That's Adam and Eve's sin.
Knowledge is power, ignorance is a choice.
Why does God have a beard?
Does god have sexual organs and an anus?
If so, why, is what I would like to know.
Not gambling with out faith. So your gambling on pure scientific knowledge. How come you don't win every time. 23:05 And do you not hope you win....
Like some presidents we have 😀
I was reading 3 Bibles in my biology class. The biology teacher looked frightened.
I was caught reading a biology textbook in theology class. I was taken to the front of the room and caned as an example.
You were, of course, reading your biology textbook in church?
@@TheSnoeedog That caning was just a blessed example of our Savior's "LUUUUVE" for you, a degenerate sinner.
Can I get a "hallelujah"?
That look was probably puzzlement as to why you were reading fiction when you should have been listening to facts.
@@krisaaron5771 1st, I was actually kidding.
2nd, I said theology class, rather than singling out, say, Catholic school.
Joking aside, I was backhanded clear out of my chair once, in a full (shocked) classroom by my math teacher, while attending public high school (grade 9). It was (more than) a few years ago...and it only happened once.
Microsoft is so freaking annoying
"What one man calls God another calls physics " - Tesla
We are both right and wrong at the same time.
"Heisenberg + Schrodinger ÷ Occam's razor = reasonable truth
Check my math.
Tesla was describing a pair of dunderheads.
@@RideAcrossTheRivercretin!