My approach is any trips less than 25 miles, use electric only. Any highway drive, use m8 and deplete the battery over ~60 miles getting ~30mpg. it seems like a way to operate the gas engine when it’s most efficient (1-1.5k rpm) with electric motors assisting to avoid having to go into 6-7th gear.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I have a 60 mile both ways most sundays. If I deplete electric only first then use hybrid I average about 22mpg (dashboard). This weekend I will try blended mode and see if I can get it up to 30mpg.
I would love to see a Hybrid mode on the dash screen. Maybe in the Hybrid section with the battery save, battery charge. Add a Hybrid mode, maybe even with a adjustable percentage or predicted miles.
Good for going downhill or uphill. If revving too much. Downhill can be used to slow the engine down by using the weight of the engine AND make money with superfast recharging of the 400v battery! Used it coming down Pike’s Peak- real pleasure!!!
The issue with the AA example is that the 4xe has 2 different power sources that are at their most efficient at different times. The battery with be most efficient in city or traffic and the ICE on the highway. Now yes the computer’s algorithm are set to be most efficient at most times but it doesn’t account for your route and distance you will be travelling. For rides just over the electric range I’m 100% convinced it pays to extend the “e” range at higher speed by blending thus saving some electric for when you get off the highway vs depleting it then using gas when your stop and go.
Thanks for this. I like using Manual shift mode to control RPM (maybe P2 electric motor helps avoid lugging) and also to keep the gas engine on rather than having it start and stop a lot, especially when oil temperature is low.
I like to use it to force a warm up before you get on the highway. I also like it a lot for entering the highway instead of waiting for whatever mode you're in to figure out that you need power. When it comes to highway driving, I'm really not sure if it helps efficiency. Even in standard hybrid mode I find that it's assisting for a long time(much longer than 26m) before it's depleted, because it is kicking the engine on no matter what mode you're in. I need to run it on a 55mph road in blended mode and compare it to the hybrid mode by using the gas pump method.
I have a Cadillac ELR that is similar to a 4xe, I think this mixed mode would work great in the winter. It helps heat the cab and batteries without running up the rpms so high that burns alot of gas. My Cadillac will do this automatically when it is below 32 degrees when I first start driving. If my car has sat out in the cold all day, like when I'm at work, it will run in this mode much longer to warm up the batteries.
The 4XE has an electric coolant heater that warms the battery and the cabin pretty quickly. It still has a heater core but it has the ECH so it can heat without running the gas engine.
Ahhh, yes. I'm new to the Jeep and 4xe world. I totally get that it is nearly impossible to compare driving modes. It must be a true apples-to-apples comparison Ala the suggestion from the poster. I just stumbled across this phenomenon today AND, it totally makes sense for me as a daily commute. I work 16 miles from home. I used to drive to work on Hybrid-auto (effectively electric) and then charge to allow me to drive on Hybrid-auto back home. I'd pay about $0.24/kWh. Since I discovered this, I could run in Hybrid-manual on the way into work to stretch the battery usage and drive home in Hybrid-auto. This would "defer" the energy replacement of the battery until it is a lower kWh/unit cost (less than $0.12/kWh). Hence more COST effective. I'm not worried about energy efficiency but I am concerned about cost efficiency and this seems the better way to manage my cost.
Love the videos on the 4xe. Ordered our 2022 4xe in Jan. Just got confirmation it will be arriving on June 30 here in Vancouver, BC. Sales guy is suggesting the extended warranty, some sort of rubber under coating (helps with road sound?), and coating to protect the pain job. Would you recommend any of these?
Wondering if this mode would work well for me. I have solar panels, so I basically get free electricity. If I go to the Big City and take the interstate, I think this would use some elec, but not all, to optimize mileage, and leave some for the city driving (most efficient use). Using elec. to push the brick at 70mph seems... not optimum. But then M8 starts to sound like e-save mode too. But... I don't need to save all the electric as with e-save. Maybe I'm just thinking too hard.
It would be hard to say that you would come out ahead from a net energy perspective. But it’s sure worth the experiment. If you calculate gas mileage at the pump (and don’t trust the dash calculator) to test it, it would be cool to hear how it works out. I haven’t been able to create a scenario where it comes out ahead from a net energy perspective.
I have an unrelated question. We have a 2022 4Xe and escape the cold for a month. We we travel to does not have places to recharge the vehicle nor is using the supplied recharge cable an option. Will driving the vehicle without access to recharging the vehicle damage or reduce the future ability to fully recharge the battery? Thank you for responses.
How is M8 mode different from e-save? When I run in e-save and look at the power meter, it’s still using the electric motor in combination with the ICE. It just uses the electric motor less as to ensure the battery does not deplete much past its current level. As you always say, it’s always a hybrid - never 100% ICE.
I tried that but couldn’t quite get the timing right. The shifting is electronic so it’s not like we have a direct connection to the transmission. Based on other manufacturers that are getting better performance out of their automatics than their manuals now, my guess would be no.
It would be nice if they gave us an option to always run the ICE in hybrid mode during highway speeds. This option could be available in the battery menu. I noticed a big difference in my fuel consumption after the battery ran out in highway speeds. There should be an option for every scenario for the customer to choose.
Either way, you use the same net energy. If you drive 50 miles in blended mode or just leave it in hybrid mode and let it use the battery first, the end result is the same. The MPG estimator in the dash will make you think it does better but real world tests show otherwise.
@@Wrangler4XEFansbut as another poster said, ICE is more efficient at highways speeds and electric better in stop and go, if there was an option that would automatically switch to M8 mode when traveling above 55mph and then goes back to electric below 55mph, this would be a more efficient use of the 2 power systems, maybe the cutoff could even be at 50mph
@@joespart4782 I have seriously considered opening up the compartment around the shifter to see what happens when we pull the shifter over to the left. Like if there's some sort of switch that gets activated, I'd like to install my own switch that would turn on the engine yet allow it to stay in automatic shifting.
I don’t think it’s the “blended hybrid” that’s saving the fuel (electric or gas). I think it’s the shifting inefficiency of the transmission and by manually shifting, you’re overcoming that inefficiency, running at a lower RPM more often, providing better fuel mileage. What inefficiency? Well, I took a 1000 mile trip recently and had the Jeep in auto, cruising at 65mph and at some point early on I looked at my dash and noticed the Jeep was in 7th gear. So here I am running at a higher RPM, on the highway for who knows how many miles, using a tad more fuel than if I were in 8th gear. Why wasn’t the Jeep shifting into 8th? As mentioned, I was at a steady speed. I was towing a very small boat though…may have been a factor. I manually shifted into 8th, RPMs went down and my mpg went up by 2mpg. I tested this several times through out the trip, going back into automatic. Sometimes the Jeep would shift up to 8th gear but there were several times it would stick in 7th and I would go into manual to get it into 8th. It may just be my Jeep doing this but I wonder if others are having the same issue. You probably won’t notice it unless you’re actively watching for what gear the Jeep is in while in auto.
I'd say pulling the boat was the thing that was crossing the demand threshold for it to stay in 8th. I'm no mechanic and certainly not a transmission guy but I'd have to wonder what forcing the vehicle in to a higher gear does to either the transmission or the engine in the long term.
What I don't understand is why Jeep didn't make it like a Toyota Camry Hybrid which I own one of. I also own Diesel Gladiator and Wranger. The Toyota Camry is a true hybrid. No plug in and I just got 50mpg last night it's incredible
Great question. The only difference between an HEV and a PHEV is that the battery is bigger and the latter has a plug with which to draw additional energy in to the battery. When the 4XE reaches the point that it can no longer drive on electric alone, the hybrid system is not dissimilar to the Camry hybrid system. The reason it can’t get 50MPG is because it’s a 4 wheel drive with axels, body on frame construction, weighs over 5,000 pounds and has one of the lowest drag coefficients for a passenger vehicle on the market. Those elements all have to change in order to achieve Camry like results. At that point, it would no longer be a Wrangler.
Personally, I would only use this method when on the highway. Max Regen doesn’t make as much sense on the highway since it only kicks in when we decelerate. I tend to turn it off on the highway since I generally like to coast more. I only tend to use max regen on surface streets as that’s when it seems to make the most sense.
That's a great question. I wish I had a good answer. It's one way to force the engine to run a little longer and avoid a lot of short engine runs for sure.
I have a commute that includes some highway driving. I am using M8 mode while on highway to hopefully prevent FORM from happening while simultaneously extending my electric range (when on surface streets at beginning and end of my drive). I prefer this over using esave mode on highway to force the ICE to run. The experiment I would like to see is a comparison of M8 vs esave during a highway drive to compare "efficiency"....if that makes sense?
@@andreachrislogue1590 I know eSave will use way more gas than M8. I’ve seen the MPGs driven down to around 19MPG in eSave but seen as much as 33MPG in M8.
It's a little tricky though. When you run in M8 the vehicle doesn't count any of those miles as electric...so that 33 MPG may not be accurate. And you do deplete the battery in M8...just a lot slower. I am using M8 as a different kind of esave while on the highway (I call it eslow rather than esave?)
I think this is a good way to force the ICE to run for longer periods of time...better for the ICE to prevent FORM and may be most efficient way to do it?
I'm sure you hear this a lot, but I think you sound like David Letterman. If I don't look at you in the video, I hear Letterman talking intelligently about the 4XE in great detail, which is hilarious because I'm sure he would never own or drive one. The whole Jeep brand is probably repulsive to Letterman, which makes it funny to hear his voice in that context. LOL.
Funny enough, I hear that a lot but I don’t hear it in myself. Like, if you told me to do a Letterman impression, I don’t know how I would do it. It’s a high compliment because Letterman in the greatest.
It sure is. I’ve never had FORM but I had EMU+CHOC for about 3 months when my electric coolant heater went bad. The end result is the same as FORM in that the gas engine always runs.
The longer I have it, the more I appreciate the many little things that did great on. There are lots of little awesome things that really show the thought and consideration they put in to it.
My approach is any trips less than 25 miles, use electric only. Any highway drive, use m8 and deplete the battery over ~60 miles getting ~30mpg. it seems like a way to operate the gas engine when it’s most efficient (1-1.5k rpm) with electric motors assisting to avoid having to go into 6-7th gear.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I have a 60 mile both ways most sundays. If I deplete electric only first then use hybrid I average about 22mpg (dashboard). This weekend I will try blended mode and see if I can get it up to 30mpg.
I would love to see a Hybrid mode on the dash screen. Maybe in the Hybrid section with the battery save, battery charge. Add a Hybrid mode, maybe even with a adjustable percentage or predicted miles.
Good for going downhill or uphill. If revving too much. Downhill can be used to slow the engine down by using the weight of the engine AND make money with superfast recharging of the 400v battery! Used it coming down Pike’s Peak- real pleasure!!!
The issue with the AA example is that the 4xe has 2 different power sources that are at their most efficient at different times. The battery with be most efficient in city or traffic and the ICE on the highway. Now yes the computer’s algorithm are set to be most efficient at most times but it doesn’t account for your route and distance you will be travelling. For rides just over the electric range I’m 100% convinced it pays to extend the “e” range at higher speed by blending thus saving some electric for when you get off the highway vs depleting it then using gas when your stop and go.
Thanks for this. I like using Manual shift mode to control RPM (maybe P2 electric motor helps avoid lugging) and also to keep the gas engine on rather than having it start and stop a lot, especially when oil temperature is low.
I like to use it to force a warm up before you get on the highway. I also like it a lot for entering the highway instead of waiting for whatever mode you're in to figure out that you need power. When it comes to highway driving, I'm really not sure if it helps efficiency. Even in standard hybrid mode I find that it's assisting for a long time(much longer than 26m) before it's depleted, because it is kicking the engine on no matter what mode you're in. I need to run it on a 55mph road in blended mode and compare it to the hybrid mode by using the gas pump method.
I was wondering how inquisitive you were when you were a college student 😂 Awesome videos all around
Great, informative video!!!! I'm even more impressed that you're listening to the best band ever!!! RUSH baby!!
You got that right. I mean the Rush part. But I do hope it was informative too.
I have a Cadillac ELR that is similar to a 4xe, I think this mixed mode would work great in the winter. It helps heat the cab and batteries without running up the rpms so high that burns alot of gas. My Cadillac will do this automatically when it is below 32 degrees when I first start driving. If my car has sat out in the cold all day, like when I'm at work, it will run in this mode much longer to warm up the batteries.
The 4XE has an electric coolant heater that warms the battery and the cabin pretty quickly. It still has a heater core but it has the ECH so it can heat without running the gas engine.
Ahhh, yes. I'm new to the Jeep and 4xe world. I totally get that it is nearly impossible to compare driving modes. It must be a true apples-to-apples comparison Ala the suggestion from the poster. I just stumbled across this phenomenon today AND, it totally makes sense for me as a daily commute. I work 16 miles from home. I used to drive to work on Hybrid-auto (effectively electric) and then charge to allow me to drive on Hybrid-auto back home. I'd pay about $0.24/kWh. Since I discovered this, I could run in Hybrid-manual on the way into work to stretch the battery usage and drive home in Hybrid-auto. This would "defer" the energy replacement of the battery until it is a lower kWh/unit cost (less than $0.12/kWh). Hence more COST effective. I'm not worried about energy efficiency but I am concerned about cost efficiency and this seems the better way to manage my cost.
Is that the one touch top with some kind of shade screen?
Soft top with an AlienShade.
Love the videos on the 4xe.
Ordered our 2022 4xe in Jan. Just got confirmation it will be arriving on June 30 here in Vancouver, BC. Sales guy is suggesting the extended warranty, some sort of rubber under coating (helps with road sound?), and coating to protect the pain job.
Would you recommend any of these?
I’m a skeptic when it comes to dealer add-on stuff. I’ve watched too many behind the scenes videos about dealerships.
Wondering if this mode would work well for me. I have solar panels, so I basically get free electricity. If I go to the Big City and take the interstate, I think this would use some elec, but not all, to optimize mileage, and leave some for the city driving (most efficient use). Using elec. to push the brick at 70mph seems... not optimum. But then M8 starts to sound like e-save mode too. But... I don't need to save all the electric as with e-save. Maybe I'm just thinking too hard.
It would be hard to say that you would come out ahead from a net energy perspective. But it’s sure worth the experiment. If you calculate gas mileage at the pump (and don’t trust the dash calculator) to test it, it would be cool to hear how it works out. I haven’t been able to create a scenario where it comes out ahead from a net energy perspective.
What’s the Jscan tool that you plug into your Jeep that you use in some of your other videos?
@@nfran2 It’s an iPhone app. It connects via Bluetooth to an OBD reader.
@@Wrangler4XEFans which obd reader do you prefer?
@@nfran2 This is the one I have: amzn.to/3xXaGcJ
I have an unrelated question. We have a 2022 4Xe and escape the cold for a month. We we travel to does not have places to recharge the vehicle nor is using the supplied recharge cable an option. Will driving the vehicle without access to recharging the vehicle damage or reduce the future ability to fully recharge the battery? Thank you for responses.
No, it is fine. At that point, the 4XE is like any other regular hybrid. The engineers even tested one without ever charging it for that very reason.
Thank you for your response, I greatly appreciate it.
How is M8 mode different from e-save? When I run in e-save and look at the power meter, it’s still using the electric motor in combination with the ICE. It just uses the electric motor less as to ensure the battery does not deplete much past its current level. As you always say, it’s always a hybrid - never 100% ICE.
The only difference is that in force hybrid mode, the system isn’t going to work to replace the energy used until it gets down to the
This got me thinking… if shifted correctly, do you think manual (blended) mode will give us a better 0-60?
I tried that but couldn’t quite get the timing right. The shifting is electronic so it’s not like we have a direct connection to the transmission. Based on other manufacturers that are getting better performance out of their automatics than their manuals now, my guess would be no.
It would be nice if they gave us an option to always run the ICE in hybrid mode during highway speeds. This option could be available in the battery menu. I noticed a big difference in my fuel consumption after the battery ran out in highway speeds.
There should be an option for every scenario for the customer to choose.
Either way, you use the same net energy. If you drive 50 miles in blended mode or just leave it in hybrid mode and let it use the battery first, the end result is the same. The MPG estimator in the dash will make you think it does better but real world tests show otherwise.
@@Wrangler4XEFansbut as another poster said, ICE is more efficient at highways speeds and electric better in stop and go, if there was an option that would automatically switch to M8 mode when traveling above 55mph and then goes back to electric below 55mph, this would be a more efficient use of the 2 power systems, maybe the cutoff could even be at 50mph
@@joespart4782 I have seriously considered opening up the compartment around the shifter to see what happens when we pull the shifter over to the left. Like if there's some sort of switch that gets activated, I'd like to install my own switch that would turn on the engine yet allow it to stay in automatic shifting.
@@Wrangler4XEFans that sounds like a cool idea
I don’t think it’s the “blended hybrid” that’s saving the fuel (electric or gas). I think it’s the shifting inefficiency of the transmission and by manually shifting, you’re overcoming that inefficiency, running at a lower RPM more often, providing better fuel mileage.
What inefficiency?
Well, I took a 1000 mile trip recently and had the Jeep in auto, cruising at 65mph and at some point early on I looked at my dash and noticed the Jeep was in 7th gear. So here I am running at a higher RPM, on the highway for who knows how many miles, using a tad more fuel than if I were in 8th gear. Why wasn’t the Jeep shifting into 8th? As mentioned, I was at a steady speed. I was towing a very small boat though…may have been a factor.
I manually shifted into 8th, RPMs went down and my mpg went up by 2mpg. I tested this several times through out the trip, going back into automatic. Sometimes the Jeep would shift up to 8th gear but there were several times it would stick in 7th and I would go into manual to get it into 8th.
It may just be my Jeep doing this but I wonder if others are having the same issue. You probably won’t notice it unless you’re actively watching for what gear the Jeep is in while in auto.
I'd say pulling the boat was the thing that was crossing the demand threshold for it to stay in 8th. I'm no mechanic and certainly not a transmission guy but I'd have to wonder what forcing the vehicle in to a higher gear does to either the transmission or the engine in the long term.
What I don't understand is why Jeep didn't make it like a Toyota Camry Hybrid which I own one of. I also own Diesel Gladiator and Wranger. The Toyota Camry is a true hybrid. No plug in and I just got 50mpg last night it's incredible
Great question. The only difference between an HEV and a PHEV is that the battery is bigger and the latter has a plug with which to draw additional energy in to the battery. When the 4XE reaches the point that it can no longer drive on electric alone, the hybrid system is not dissimilar to the Camry hybrid system. The reason it can’t get 50MPG is because it’s a 4 wheel drive with axels, body on frame construction, weighs over 5,000 pounds and has one of the lowest drag coefficients for a passenger vehicle on the market. Those elements all have to change in order to achieve Camry like results. At that point, it would no longer be a Wrangler.
When driving like this, would you use Max Regen as well?
Personally, I would only use this method when on the highway. Max Regen doesn’t make as much sense on the highway since it only kicks in when we decelerate. I tend to turn it off on the highway since I generally like to coast more. I only tend to use max regen on surface streets as that’s when it seems to make the most sense.
Will that reduce the chance of FORM
That's a great question. I wish I had a good answer. It's one way to force the engine to run a little longer and avoid a lot of short engine runs for sure.
I have a commute that includes some highway driving. I am using M8 mode while on highway to hopefully prevent FORM from happening while simultaneously extending my electric range (when on surface streets at beginning and end of my drive). I prefer this over using esave mode on highway to force the ICE to run.
The experiment I would like to see is a comparison of M8 vs esave during a highway drive to compare "efficiency"....if that makes sense?
@@andreachrislogue1590 I know eSave will use way more gas than M8. I’ve seen the MPGs driven down to around 19MPG in eSave but seen as much as 33MPG in M8.
It's a little tricky though. When you run in M8 the vehicle doesn't count any of those miles as electric...so that 33 MPG may not be accurate. And you do deplete the battery in M8...just a lot slower. I am using M8 as a different kind of esave while on the highway (I call it eslow rather than esave?)
I think this is a good way to force the ICE to run for longer periods of time...better for the ICE to prevent FORM and may be most efficient way to do it?
I'm sure you hear this a lot, but I think you sound like David Letterman. If I don't look at you in the video, I hear Letterman talking intelligently about the 4XE in great detail, which is hilarious because I'm sure he would never own or drive one. The whole Jeep brand is probably repulsive to Letterman, which makes it funny to hear his voice in that context. LOL.
Funny enough, I hear that a lot but I don’t hear it in myself. Like, if you told me to do a Letterman impression, I don’t know how I would do it. It’s a high compliment because Letterman in the greatest.
Does this work using the smart cruise control?
Sure does.
That's almost identical to how it operates at speed in FORM
It sure is. I’ve never had FORM but I had EMU+CHOC for about 3 months when my electric coolant heater went bad. The end result is the same as FORM in that the gas engine always runs.
You should be able to put it in M8 and the transmission will shift up and down for you still.
It's to allow for manual shifting. It will shift down when you come to a stop but it won't shift up.
I feel like Jeep just threw this hybrid in at the last second and didn't think it all the way through.
The longer I have it, the more I appreciate the many little things that did great on. There are lots of little awesome things that really show the thought and consideration they put in to it.
its not a wrangler if its not a two door
Correct, it’s a Wrangler Unlimited.
😅