WATERPROOF MEMBRANE for TILE SHOWER PAN
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- As you have seen from many of my testing videos, the weak point in any waterproof membrane material for a shower pan is at the seams where the sheet and band come together. These polyethylene sheet membranes for tile rely on thinset mortar to adhere the banding and corners at the junctions of the sheets. We know the various brands of membrane as schluter Kerdi, Ardex SK-175, and Hydro Ban Sheet Membrane. As we know, regular thinset mortar is not waterproof, so if water sits on one of the seam areas for prolonged periods of time, the water can seep through the layers of waterproof membrane. To eliminate the seams in the shower pan area, you can implement a fold and tuck technique similar to how a PVC pan liner is used. This video shows how to do that, plus a few additional tips and tricks for waterproof membranes for tiled showers.
For the video on installing the drain and mortar bed: • FLO FX SHOWER DRAIN ON...
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To purchase a Flo FX bonding flange and grate you can get them here www.tilecoach.com/product-page/flo-fx-bonding-flange-abs. Thank you for your support and love!
Does Flow FX have linear drains?
Do you have a link to the work trousers too please 👖
@@dansondevelopmentsltd6754 truewerk.com?sca_ref=539863.k...
ok
Dude I tried this today, soooo simple! I had a bondo squeege and used that to tuck it in. When I was done I sat there for a moment and admired my work, then the client walked in a could not believe how neat it was. I got the ultimate compliment, she said, "you are an artist"! so I took out my sharpie and signed the membrane.
Don't bullshit
Artist is nice but after a few more tucked corners, you'll elevate to a true arteest!
I was once a world champion at something too embarrassing to state specifically. I learned technique and methods from guys during their first week and pros during their last days. I put together a combination of all I learned. If you're not switching it up, you're not getting better. I love that you are a real world tradesman sharing your trials and tribulations so others can save time.
Ok Dave now we need to know what you were the world champion at. Being the best at whatever you choose to do has no room for embarrassment!
Not just once, he's been the world champion as part of a team several times and won 40-something national titles. Super impressive, man!
@@TileCoach Domino's Pizza world box folding champion 1996. Are you happy now?
@@lockwooddave could be worse, you could be the kinda guy that hangs his hat on teaching competitive high school marching band like I do. *LOL*
@@lockwooddave I bet you still got it too. 😃
Man... I have been in the tile business since 2013 and I must say your attitude is so awesome towards trying new tricks to the trade. You're right there are only a small percentage of the tile contractor who think like that and it just holds them back. Innovation is how we grow as individuals but also as a tradesman too! Been a viewer for a while and have loved watching your channel grow. Keep on doing what you're doing!
When I install shower pan liner I always cut inside corners of the studs,so the liner can fold inside.so the durock doesn’t bulge out. Same method. Am glad you are helping out the so call tile guys to do it right. Am getting tired of tearing out all theses shower.keep up good work 👍
If this is something that you plan on doing - I would suggest you get a set of plastic automotive trim tools that you can use to tuck the membrane. They come in a lot of different shapes and sizes and you won't run the risk of poking through it like you would using a metal tool/screwdriver.
Good advice. I use a windshield gasket installation tool.
The "Bruce Jenner" HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Now I know the official name for the "tuck technique." And I will forever call it that. Thank you! I needed that laugh 💯
I like your idea about folding it up and not using strips
Hot mop,yeah right.So many old schoolers are stuck.Shower liners,quartz,composite beams,lumber,mold proof drywall,pex and list goes on and on.I don't get it either,what are these guys thinking.I'm 62,still learning and changing.You do you buddy,it's working just fine.Thanks coach.
You have a great view on life and on how to be a great worker. I also think like you and have no issues with adapting when it comes to work.
I used the method with the folding in the corners, makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
I tried this and it's simple to do. Make sure you cut out an opening in the backer board to accept the tucked membrane. I ended up putting a bead of sealant in each corner and up the wall 2 inches because allowing a clear path for water to go behind the wall made me nervous. Installing inside corners instead of sealant would work too. I'm not sure about RSS membrane but water does wick up hydroban membrane and I didn't want that to happen and possibly get to the studs.
I really like this system. Thank you for sharing. I love to learn, I seem to get humbled when I watch your videos.
Fantastic Idea... As a diy who has yet to attempt I thankyou for all the great videos you provide so that when I do attempt I will have a better idea of what to do.
The background commentary from the owner / camera man? Good stuff 😂
I like seeing the American made shower pan and flowFX drain - that’s you all delivering on your integrity and gravitas with this channel or “eating your own dog food” so to speak.
I’m really interested in doing something like this in my powder room and your channel is invaluable for making a decision. I think I’m going to have a tough time finding someone here in LA!
Saw Amus do this in IG awhile back and love it! Definitely takes a little practice to perfect it. Only tip is to make the gap you're tucking into a tad bigger so it's easier to work the membrane into the corners. 👍🏼
hey what's his IT link? thanks
Just sitting here wondering why schluter overlaps seams with no regard to direction of water flow. You solved it now I know how I'd like to do my shower. Been talking myself into and out of pan plans for 2 weeks.
Never stop improving!
Please.
Is the waterproofing membrane replacing the rubber liner method? Thanks for the videos, keep up the good work!
Way better then the Schluter method!
Not gonna lie, when you told me that neon yellow border was just to keep grout out of the drain and that it was not used as the final product, I was bummed. I would love to see Flo Fx come out with neon yellow or neon baby blue drain, just like the flange. Something funky. The videos are awesome.
I learned something yet again. I love this channel.
If you eliminated the seam at the bottom by raising the pan’s membrane up the wall 2 inches, why not extend the wall, width wise, to over lap the adjacent wall, eliminating the vertical seams where the walls meet.
I'm glad watched this... So simple but massive different...
What a killer install.
Your psychological insights are well-founded in the personality research literature.
hi coach I like the way you improved in the work site thanks for sharing the knowledge!👍💪👏
What did you use for the corners and the long strip in the corner going up the wall? Can you list all the supplies you used?
Just would like to see how you cut out the corners for the “Bruce Jenner “ tuck .
Also just wanted to say good advice on being stubborn ! God bless .
This seems like a simpler, more streamlined system. It eliminates the need for multiple layers at the corners.
Great advice on needing to grow and learn! Have you ever tried using Hydro Ban waterproofing instead of thinset to attach the membrane to the deck and corners?
Is there a TileCoach in Phoenix, AZ area? LOL I have two showers to upgrade in N. Scottsdale.
Great idea to run the membrane up the walls thereby eliminating the band. However it seems like there is not any overlap at the very "point" of the corner. I thought all the thinset membrane systems required a 2 inch overlap to achieve the specified water proofing. I would still use a prefabricated inside corner, then run the corner band.
The corner is folded, it's not cut at the corner. There could be a possibility of getting a little water in the fold, but It doesn't really have anywhere to go other than back out.
From other videos, it looks like I'm not likely to get a reply to this question, but it looks like the coach kneels (and probably stood) on the sheet membrane right after install so he could then install the wall corner bands. not sure if he let the floor sheet set a bit or not since he did a video cut between floor and corner seams. I asked an AI and it said to wait for the floor sheet to set.
Great video as always, love learning from you!
I just stumbled upon your channel and I LOVE IT! Please keep the videos coming! I also love that your willing to talk about new and better things. Innovation is good.
I really like that, keep up the good works.
actually i will be doing something similar to this with kerdi membrane , but i will not insert the corners because they'r already done then i will use the Kerdi in-corners . i like this
I've used waterproof membrane before and it has a consistency like thick paper. Seems like it would wrinkle when applied to a three-dimensional shower floor surface. I can see it working if it's stretchy, but it's not, so I'm apprehensive about using it over other solutions. Guess I'll just have to try it!
does the curb install directly atop the pan or abutted?
Thank you for the great series of videos on the FX Pro....looking at your website I see you are selling an FX mat product instead of RSS. Is that what you currently recommend, and is it basically the same thing? Thanks again.
May I ask why not cut a bigger sheet that can cover the curb as well?
I think the physical nature of the corner tucks would prevent a wrinkle free transition over the curb without cuts
it just doesnt look like the thinset on the wall board/ curb riser sticks as good as the floor. because the wall board is dry and a bit porous the thinset dries a bit to fast for a great bond. what might be better is to use a liquid membrane on the wall board, curb riser, etc, just in the area where the kerdi band is going to be , just one coat and let it dry for 10 minutes or so, then apply thinset like you did, then apply the kerdi. i think it would keep the thinset a bit more wet and give a bit more time and bond to the kerdi a bit better
So what is that pancake batter consistency "mud" comprised of? Is it wetly mixed deck mud or or is it modified or unmodified thinset?
Hello from Chicago!! Do you have any suggestion on how scaffolding a 10 foot kitchen wall for tiling above wall cabinets?
Where do we purchase this WATERPROOF MEMBRANE?
Hi Isaac
Is there a reason why your not using the hydroban sheet membrane? Is the rss membrane better?
Also when you mixed the multimax lite did you go over the max water recommended in packaging?
Love the videos brother
Keep them coming
Thanks
Isaac
I have not installed a pan with this type of material yet. I would like to now from your experience what would happen if you install the membrane first like a traditional shower pan then install the backer board over top the turn up? I don't think you would ever have a leak if it was done like I tried to explain. You would also not be fighting to stick the waterproofing to the wall surfaces and floor surfaces at the same time.
I could be wrong, but don't the side walls also get the waterproofing membrane? I don't see it here, not sure how he waterproofed the sidewalls.
are you gonna show us the rest?
Can you use Hydro ban instead of using a membrane?
I’m a bit shocked.
I been tucking the corners for years.
Although only up wall 2-3 inch. You gotta go higher. I’m always running 6 high.
This hit me many years ago with kerdi.
Inside corners. I’ll pull corner out so I can tuck corner behind wall. It’s all about water shed.
My grandpa was from Italy.
Old plaster guy. He could make us look like jackasses. Float a wall. Who needs sticks or a level. Good tools and your eyes.
I could never pick his skill up.
How you make a wall smooth as glass and dead nuts level.
Anyway he’s the one who showed me a few tricks. And he liked kerdi but not there methods.
Redguard and others. It was a 50/50 pending on job. Tile size. Etc.
as he made me do it.
Mock a shower up and use kerdi and others. No tile. Etc then run a hose. Watch water and think how you can improve water shed. That’s what he did to me.
He was a grumpy old man but he could do wonders with materials.
Curious how has Covid hit you with work in sac??
I’m in northern ca also and it picked up shocking. Then inspectors wouldn’t come out. Then said. Self inspect and send pics.
Lol.
Gotta love ca
Yep, opening between the boards receives the fold.
Love the information you provide. Are you using the band on the wall seams What about over the screws in the wall board?
What do you recommend for a newbie that might not be comfortable attempting to put the sheeting down over the deckmud?
@@davidwilcox9562 Hi David, I'm sure you've found the videos by now, but if you're not comfortable with the sheeting, Isaac has videos on using Laticrete Hydroban directly over the deck mud. Watch his videos, especially the one where he comes three different types, as he goes into calculating how much liquid you need to ensure proper coverage (but not too much). The sheet membrane isn't too expensive, so you could always buy 3-5 extra feet and practice laying it over some plywood if that would make you feel more comfortable. I'm going to go back and re-watch videos to make sure, but I thought Isaac used Multi-Max Lite to put the sheet membrane down at least in one video. He said that stuff has a 40 minute open time before it dries, so as long as you are putting it on dried/set dry pack, you would be able to pull the sheet back up and fix an error - although I'm sure that could get messy quick. You can also sign up for Isaac's Team Forum for $10/mth and Isaac and others respond to comments made there.
Does Flofx have linear drain products?
would be interested to see how you waterproof the niche in this shower. Not sure if you have time for that.
Your videos are professional and you are obviously perceptive, aware and thoughtful. I have no skin in this game but think about the Bruce Jenner dig for a minute... Thank You for your time and information you are incredibly helpful!
So you tile right on top 🔝 of the membrane ?
Do you have another video showing how you finished this install? What wall material and did you cover all the walls and niche with the same RSS system?
what kind of curb was used ?
where is the video where you do the tile on this bathroom?
Do you now prefer the Hydro Ban over the membrane method?
I'm watching video after video of shower systems...(about to remodel my bathroom) and I do not trust the material they are made out of..so many videos show it breaks down and the membrane leaks..are there better options?..I'm about to make shower base like a roof
Would love to know your opinion of GoBoard!
I am dying to do this in my upstairs shower. I remodeled it with granite and marble about 18 yrs ago but used a fiber shower pan. I want to do the mud tbing.
If a curbless shower is being installed should the waterproof membrane be around the shower area, or should the whole bathroom floor be waterproofed?
Doesn't the corner tuck method cause the corner edge to be lower?
what was it you used for the cleavage membrane? And how is the final product doing? Are you still using the Flow as your go to drain?
What do you recommend if doing a larger shower for the membrane? We are planning on doing a 40ishx60ish shower and the waterproof membranes I'm finding are only 39" wide, would it be best to overlap a few inches with the curb sheet and use a liquid membrane to adhere to each other?
Is it ok to install a water proof pan /tray before waterproofing the walls ?
Well if you are using foam board for walls its almost completely waterproof (except the screw holes and seams) - need onlyt to use manufacturer's sealant and/or banding to finish the wall waterproofing . Water proofing the pan before walls are finished means you risk damaging the floor waterproofing that you may not see causes a leak.
Great video and learned allot. where in northern CAL are you at?
Hi, can I tile the membrane after doing that, or do I need to wait until the thinset cures to hold the membrane?
Hey Isac, thanks for all the great uploads. I needed to ask if I have a mortar bed on a concrete slab, do I still need to use any membrane, or just use thinset to instal the tile on the bed directly. BTW, that FLO-FX is a great product. I took your advice and got one.
future readers, you always need to waterproof (sheet or liquid membrane) the mortar bed to the drain even if the mud deck is built on a slab.
I installed pebble stones on my shower floor put my installation was not that great (not a very smooth level slope), want to cover all imperfections and make sure down slope everywhere toward the linear drain. I need advise on using Non-Shrink Construction Grout Concrete Mix by SAKRETE .
Is this Shower ready for tile or will you be floating your walls or waterproofing the walls? In your video trying out the Hydroban membrane your walls were already floated so you wouldn’t be able to do the “tuck method”, is that why you did the the shower pan waterproofing first this time ?
Love the tuck for the inside corners, and that you are eliminating any kind of seams or cuts there. Curious about the finished height of the Flo drains though? Is it adjustable, and how so? Thank you for the videos, the more knowledge the better, so thank you for sharing your knowledge as well! Cheers
Yes, it has height adjustment shims for the grate carrier.
Sounds like the Bruce Jenner tuck is the way to go..
Bruce Jenner method? HaHa great stuff!
Hey man plz make a video using this method with kerdi membrane that would be a great video.
Exact same method regardless what brand membrane you're using.
I see a failure in the making. Those inside corners are not sealed with the "Bruce Jennar" method. When you do a water test, I see water mitigation happening in the corners. I would use hydroban urethane to seal the corner closed. It's great that there's no banding, but the inside corner pieces for the banding seal the corners. I would urethane the inside corners, then thinset the banding down the inside corners.
Sorry, but I dont understand how thinset seals the floor membrane with the transition stub membrane? Shouldn't the membrane be one piece from the floor and then up and over the transition stub? (sorry, not sure what it is called - the area between shower floor and the rest of bathroom floor)
The Bruce Jenner method. That's great! I tried these corners on my last shower as well. I used the 6" trowel to tuck the corners, starting with the point of the sheet to be tucked in.
You didn’t just say that 😂😂😂 Thats enough RUclips for me
What is the paper you put on the corner
So, basically this membrane replaces the use of red guard or aqua defense?
yes
Hey Tile Coach I got a question- so we installed the schluter shower pan / foam and then I found out that the homeowner wants to use penny tiles , what’s my options ? Use epoxy thin set or go with another layer of membrane to make the top of the shower pan harder ? Any idea ?
You can't use penny tiles on a schluter foam pan. You need minimum 2"x2" (or is it 4"x4"?) minimum tiles to disperse the weight or else the foam could collapse under pressure on a single penny tile.
Why not cover the pan and curb with a single sheet?
Hi Issac. I bought the X Flow from your website. Thanks for the speedy delivery. I am going to put in a mud bed for the first time on Monday. You explained everything perfectly. One question. Does the plastic extension pieces get glued to the main drain with thinset?
Yes thinset on the spacers. Thank you for supporting tilecoach.com!
I'm re-building our shower, I'm going to use Kerdi membrane and kerdiband. Does anybody knows if using Dap "Kwik seal plus" waterproof sealer (like silicone) to apply the bands (not the bed membrane, I'll use thinset for that) would work?. That thing is a strong waterproof glue, easier to apply, and I think that it would work on the drywall and it would kill the capillarity of the Kerdibands felt backing , is that a stupid idea (if yes, please tell me why)? The idea of using porous, non waterproof thinset bothers me, with the felt backing it seems to "invite" water...
No! Use unmodified thinset on the bands too.
@@nailbndr9869 Thank you, I think that I'll do that but I'll seal the edges with redguard
@@Yves95128 no need to use red guard , if you install the schuter system to their specs, it's waterproof on its own.
@@nailbndr9869 Thanks, I might or not I will see how it feels when it's done. I had major leak damages because the guys that installed the previous shower bed went 1 foot up with the pvc liner (nice) but stapled it all the way around the bottom, so that it looks great and neat...Rotten frame, black mold, white mold...So I kind of have ptsd and rather wear 2 pairs of suspenders and 2 belts...
The "Bruce Jenner" method! that shits funny!
How can I call you? I'm having my shower done and would like to speak to you please? Little nervous about the job being done. Do you have a phone contact?
See his website.
In Our Trade The Bruce Jenner method Jokes and Ball busting Can Last All day every day.👍👍👍👍👍
Why not install the membrane like a traditional PVC liner -- behind the wall boards? Here's what I'm referring to: ruclips.net/video/iYS-mn1k4i4/видео.html. In this manner, not only are you avoiding build-up, but you're potentially making the shower 400%(!) more failsafe since there are no seams for water to potentially sneak by (I'd also keep the wall boards 1/4" off the ground & liquid Hydroban the gap -- probably unnecessary, but I'd do it anyway). Granted, you'll need quite a large membrane sheet with a bigger shower. In that instance, you might need two sheets. If that's the case, I would try to keep that seam as far away from the drain as the design allowed. What's nice about the Laticrete system in particular is that if you run into this two-membrane floor pan problem (or a neo angle that you can't hospital fold) is that you can use their sealing tape and then use liquid Hydroban on top as "cheap insurance". Since it's all the Laticrete ecosystem, you know all the different products will play nice together. Anyway, keep up the good work, coach!
This is what I do. The only way it could ever leak is at the drain or overflowing the curb. It does take more time to add wood blocking between the studs to contain the deck mud and to staple the membrain to.
🙌🏼
I don’t understand bonding with thinset, I don’t know anything better but thinset isn’t water proof so there must be something better
thats also why he uses the multimax lite modified thinset for its better bonding properties. But i still see what youre saying.
The Bruce Jenner method!!😂🤣😂🤣😂
I agree with trying new things and techniques, but the only problem is it feels like you are experimenting with someone's shower. If it doesn't work, they are significantly inconvenienced and it cost you a lot of time and $$$. I think that is why a lot of tile guys and old timers stick with what they know works.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 Bruce Jenner method 🙌
One thing that really bugs me is when someone tells me that they have been doing something the same way for 30 years...
I always notice that those people are a tad angry..
Lol, another RUclips tile person comes to mind.
28 years here and my methods are always improving. #AlwaysLearning
And LOL at the ⭐Tile reference 😂🤣
@@joefowler3106 That tile reference came to mind after I commented and I had to go back and edit my comment. I in no way wrote that with said tile guy in mind.
what if u have a larger dimension than the membrane? lol
I’m trying to see what you are doing in the corners. I can’t see it…and I don’t understand what you are doing. Go back to your lab and explain so we can see.
He's pushing the extra folded up material in the corners into slots in the wall material. The advantage is having no cuts for water to leak through. Think of it kind of like wrapping a present :)
Slurry.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣