Shower Leak FLOODED HOUSE!!! REDGARD and Pan Liner
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2023
- One of the biggest mistakes in tile shower pans is mixing traditional pan liner installations with a topical membrane like Redgard. In attempt to provide "insurance" on an improper pan liner job, they apply Redgard to the mortar bed, drywall or hardiebacker hoping to seal penetrations where there should be none. With a pan liner, no penetrations are allowed below the line that is 3" above the shower curb or dam. The application of Redgard actually prohibits the flow of water out the weep holes at the base of the drain, causing the water to back up and go over the curb and into the walls and floor. Pan liners are designed to be used as a "water in, water out" system.
Shower leaks can cause significant damage including mold, termites, and fungus dry rot. In order to prevent bad tile jobs from happening, it is important for installers and homeowners to have the proper education and training necessary.
To purchase RSS waterproofiing membrane and components go to: www.tilecoach.com/revolutiona...
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www.tilecoach.com/flo-fx
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This is the most educational video on how to install a shower bed. Instead of watching people go through the installation process, this is more informative. It answers a lot of questions left out on installation videos
My wife attended a mushroom growing workshop and unfortunately, nothing from the workshop project actually grew. Other attendees at the workshop had the same results. Could you post the contact information for the guy who did this shower? He could possibly share some of his mushroom-growing secrets with us.
Just get them from under cow turds like the rest of us.
damn what a dick comment
I always feel sorry for the home owners in these situations. Here they are happy and excited to have a newly remodeled bathroom for it to end in a nightmare. Thanks for the videos and tips!
Well said
I work at a locally owned tile store in Michigan, sadly I hear these stories daily.
And one these mistakes have a domino effect to require a whole new bathroom. There's gotta be a better method that doesn't precailriously rest on such high expertise. That or there has to be, unfortunately, strict laws when it comes to licensing for such work. I know it Cali it may, but people might need to held financially accountable for this to end.
@e4 d5 I don't know about California, but it's not easy at all to become licensed in Virginia to be a contractor. Sometimes I think getting a government clearance would be easier
All because a homeowner or a flipper thought they could do it themself. Sad but true. Not everyone is capable, or lucky.
I'm buying a prefab shower pan after watching this. Seems so much easier and they make some that look decent.
I think this is a good idea. Also, I just don't understand how anyone would think screwing into a material that is suppose to hold water out is a good idea. The common sense on this install was a 0 out of 10.
Tilecoach has ready- to-tile pans on his website
@9:30, c'mon buddy, YOU know and I KNOW this guy was a "Tile Guy", and *NOT* a shower builder 🤣
Often times a guy does backsplashes & floor work, get's excited for the big bucks on a shower and takes a few RUclips University course's and THINKS he can do it. Prep is everything, mess it up with any material/method and failure is insured.
Like you I prefer Ardex over Redgard, but Redgard works if applied properly....and lest I remind you of your Schluter failures 😉. Anyway, he did all his prep backassward. I have a video ( ironically ) coming up in a few weeks of a pan with Redard applied on mortar, flood tested 24 hours, and perfectly waterproof💯. And my way of a sealed system has been in use for at least 7 years, WAY before FloFX drains & sheet membranes, but they both work if done correctly....likewise both can fail if f*****d up, and this guy winged it all the way.
*THIS WAS A CLEAR CASE OF OPERATOR MALFUNCTION*
Unfortunately, he built two other showers in the house that are leaking as well. You can remind me of Schluter failures any time!!! I still get comments of people who think I'm sponsored by Schluter haha. I am doing a livestream next week with a contractor who had a schluter linear drain failure, and they paid out $6k without even seeing the job. Manufacturing defect. Stay tuned!
@@TileCoach 🫨😮😮🫨
I am watching a lot of youtube in preparation for my DIY plus professional plumber bathroom remodel. I have found the "what you DON'T do" videos most informative. Thank you for the video and education.
What other videos can you recommend?
@@Brah027 Channels: Home Renovision - www.youtube.com/@HomeRenoVisionDIY and Sal Diblasi www.youtube.com/@SalDiBlasi
It's not a Redguard issue. It's a "I'm not qualified to do showers" issue. I find a common misconception is that "floor guys" think they can build showers. After many years installing shower tiles using the "lick and stick" method for my employers and production builders, you cannot install directly to drywall in showers. You cannot allow the water to get to the substrate.
More of a "do your homework" issue. Every single waterproofing system comes with a very through step by step guide backed by video material and in some cases even free hands on courses.
The good thing about your videos, is they have helped me recognize the importance of a good build but really importance of waterproofing. Man, thanks for all you do and the content you share
Screwing through your waterproofing liner.......very smart install.
Master craftsman and humble. What a combo.
I’ve watched a ton of Sals videos and just came across your channel. At this point I can see there’s a lot to doing a good tile job especially a tile shower floor. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Issac knows his stuff and seems to always be expanding his knowledge to ensure a top notch and long lasting result. BRAVO!
You got huge since last time I saw one of your videos! Good to see you’re working in the gym and not always in a bathroom.
I’ve learned so much from your expertise. I’m starting an entire bathroom build and your videos should help me to avoid a leak in the shower.
Arms are looking huge 💪🏽 Thanks for the videos brother, super helpful.
Grass Valley's finest.
What good vibes you put out into the world. 💜
So greatful
Thanks coach, you always give us a vary professional help 🙏
Sure appreciate the time you spent diagnosing issues. I know it's an awful amount of time and energy to disect.. thank you for your hard work. Love yah back
Always professional, courteous and very informative 👍. Great video
As a jp plumber you're a true craftsman who knows how to prevent nightmares! Respect!
Looks like someone has been working out. 💪
Hopefully we get to see the repair of this one. Thanks for the video.
I love demoing failed showers and figuring out why they failed. Ya learn so much that way. At this point I can usually tell people why it failed within minutes or even from pics. Usually people skip the pre slope, don't protect weep holes, and nailing backer board into the curb are the main culprits 🤦🏻♂️
Thanks for making these videos! Education on bad showers is very helpful for anyone building showers. With no real schools for this, RUclips is a huge help in continuing education!
So I have been watching your videos and decided to retile my shower, I have never done tile before. It was a challenge but it turned out really awesome, I have just today ripped up my bathroom floor to retile now. Thank you for all your videos and it you every want to see the shower let me know. Thanks for the amazing videos keep them coming.
I could watch these tear downs all night! Love demo days!😂
Great intro Isaac!
Nice video Isaac ❤ keep up the good work 😉👍🏻💪🏼
Thank you very much, very informative and very well done.
Not the tile coach it’s the tile doctor I’ve watched a few of your repair calls and it’s informative I do at least 5 a year
Thank for the video man I have learned so much from you and I love that your so passionate about what you do. I do like that you don’t just throw other guys under the bus but you really just couch them on how not to make the same mistake. On the other note HOMEOWNERS would never get it, why the other guy was cheaper. We’re is he now?? If I had any of my showers fails best believe I am going to be there and fix it!! Now this time around they just going to pay a lot more. 🤦🏻♂️
You rock Isaac.. just wow
I am in the process of remodeling our shower and am seeing the identical problems you have shown. Luckily it was built on a concrete slab and damage is minimal. Thanks for all your videos. I will be rebuilding with the RSS pan and walls.
Everyone who's ever had to repair or remodel someone else's crap work knows exactly what you're feeling at 13:48 😁
I had to rewind haha. What did I hear him say? Haha
I like these failure videos - learning from mistakes.
Love the surgical dismantling to find the failure points. An expensive fix for the homeowner, but with Isaac on the case at least they’ll have peace of mind that it won’t fail again. And if it does he stands behind his work.
Thanks for sharing your expertise!
I do too! Like a TILECOACH CSI.
I love his technique.
The shower looked so beautiful but beauty is only tile deep!
he has failed on bathrooms.. these pans will always fail over time..
Isaac own job has also failed. He does have warranty though.
Your knowledge is saving people a lot of heartache and expense. Thank you!
Please create punch lists for:
• Product options you currently like.
• Materials list for a shower stall.
• How to interview an installer.
• Common DIY mistakes.
• Your plumbers preferred plumbing hardware they like that have little to no issues.
The worst part is even when built wrong, the showers take some time to show the failure, and in the mean time, so much damage is being done to the floor and walls.
And that was an exterior wall, that can get to huge amounts of money.
I have always said, the most difficult item to build in an entire house, is an all tile shower. So many crucial steps have to be done right or you will have a failure, and we aren't even talking about laying the tile yet. That is also an entire process of so many ways to make a mistake and make the job look terrible.
I feel bad for the home owners, absolute nightmare.
thats why you idealy check what they doing, when you cant do it yourself...
@@p__jay Sadly many home owners, or property owners aren't informed enough to be able to See a blatant misuse of a material even if they did check mid installation. So it goes unnoticed until the major leaks happen, and by then the contractor is long gone.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 they are still liable if they didnt do any work correctly and not to code...but maybe not in the US 🤷🏻♂
damn your channel is huge now... i was watching when it was 10k subs.. I've been out in the tile world tiling. Appreciate the good content!
I think they messed up on the height of the pan and added the backer board then concrete, then tried to waterproof it over that. Probably thought it was easier and faster than pulling up the liner they had already put down.
I am still glad I slathered my Kerdi pan six inches up or more with Ardex. Double coverage! Love my Tile Coach...
you have the best tile videos
Hey there long time and here we are, great content, my favorite. Hurricane Payne.
Great video showing what not to do when water proofing a shower
Pam liner is excellent product if you do it right with the pre slope and good waterproof you shouldn’t have this kind of problem thanks tile coach you doing excellent job and proper information
Appreciate the video. Definitely learned some more.
Nice report, so close but so far. I like to also pre float
Man this is a great channel brother 🙌
As always a great video and yes that was a big mess of bad knowledge ! I picked up on a few things that could use more tweaking. First item would be to always plug the drain inside of the pipe with a blow up test plug and chain. Get your water from another source other then the shower! Fill the pan with water to the top of the curb. Doing this test like this Isolates the components of this shower weather its the pan or the plumbing. Also by installing the test plug it would allow you to test your theory of water passing under the liner at the drain as well as any penetrations in the liner.
Next I would like to comment on the fact that there is no pre pitch installed for the liner to weep properly in this video.
Code calls for the pan liner to be 2-3 " above the "FINISHED " curb not the rough framing! I would use that as the termination height for the pan up turn through out the install. (8"-10" from top of pre ptich)
The drain assembly: That grove in the bottom of the assembly was designed to accept the "Bump" in the locking ring of the the drain. The ring looks to be reversible to allow for more height out of the drain and the bump should be on both sides of that locking ring. The bump in that locking ring locks into the grove with the liner sandwiched between it thus sealing the bottom side of the liner to the drain. I have been told by a pan liner manufacture that the sealant is not necessary because of the design of the grove and bump in the drain. I personally would always use the sealant along with this design element of the drain. Some drains manufactures may not have this design feature as well!
Next the weep Holes: The weep holes are not only at the top of the locking ring at the center of the locking ring. Take note of the groves molded into the locking ring . Depending on which way you install the locking ring these groves may be on both side and are designed to allow for water movement between the top of the liner and the underside of the locking ring which makes them WEEP Groves. This intern is the lowest point of weeping in the drain assembly. The holes you referred to in the video are at the highest point of weeping depending on the height of the drain in relation to the subfloor and pre pitch. If the higher holes where the only holes in the drain assembly then there would always be water at the locking ring at about 1/4 inch deep.
Great video has usual 👍👍
I was a carpenter for 30 years in the commercial & high end institutional industry and 95% of all these RUclips videos on shower / tub install are put out by low end residencial guys trying to make an extra buck on RUclips. Sure they delete my comments when I call them out. The Tile Coach is the only guy I found so far that I would consider a pro tile guy. Being that I was not a tile guy, I now have done 4 tile jobs thanks to Tile Coach. In all my years in the industry, I never saw this Schluter crap used in all my years and I would not touch these modern gimmicky products with a ten foot pool. lol Peace and love.
Issac I have always admired your work! You do amazing work for sure. You and my Brother in law probably are by fdar the best tilers I have ever seen.
Great Vid Coach!
GOOD DESCRIPTION OF WHAT A SHOWER LEAK! ;)
Dang. That actually looked like a half decent tile install. But the mess of all the crap below was surprising. Almost like two different people did the job. One to “waterproof” and one to install the tile.
I can’t believe how many different things were going on under the tile 🤣🤣
Screws in the bottom of the liner? Hardi in the pan? Concrete? Red guard? Come on. There are SO many resources out there and I seriously doubt any of them tell you to assemble like this.
That's why when I remodeled our bathroom I use KBRS system, yes it's cost more but very easy to install and full proof if follow instructions.
Nice to know that. Many contractors don't know what they are doing. My shower pan recessed when I step on it, and the glass door cannot be shut evenly because the glass wall is tilted by the recessed pan.
You can tell immediately by the Amazon bought shower valve something was gonna fail
Plus I dislike black fixtures.
As a plumber and a homeowner I like low maintenance items which do not gradually accumulate calcium deposits. They are pretty, homeowners want them.not me.
I do not want special order fixtures where I have no immediate access to material if need be.
@@beekeepermariadelgado6806 thanks for letting us know your preference. This changed my life
Great video. To make sure I understand: water got into the platform because it wasn’t sealed correctly. A separate problem was that the pvc was penetrated in several places, and because of that water that bypassed the drain went into the wood floor. The weep holes could not help because they were plugged.
You are ALWAYS Amazing
I just fixed a shower pan that was leaking and had screws in the pan also!!
I put down a layer of mud for a preslope. Over that was my PVC liner which I did seal properly. But what I don't recall is if I put gravel around the weep holes. But we are 7 years into this shower and I can see the floor from below as it's in the mechanical room of the basement. There is no indication of leakage.. I built my curb out of treated 2x4s with the pan liner wrapped over and PVC corners glued at the vulnerable transition from curb to wall. Additionally, I use a ceiling hung shower curtain so the curb rarely sees water above 1".
In retrospect, I could have done a curblas shower if I had cut the sub floor out and recessed it flush with the trusses. I have 2" of material above the trusses
Thanks for sharing! Your biceps look huge, you must be lifting a lot of tile. Lol
Love the channel.
I've done hundreds of highest priced showers in an area of circa 1900 homes, million dollar renovations, designers and picky customers. I thank the good Lord every day for the Schluter system. I have yet to get a callback on even one of them. I know guys that reserve a day or two per month for callbacks.... I go golfing. Thank you Schluter, and thank you Isaac, you are the benchmark of professionalism.
I used the Schluter system in three bathrooms. No issues. I will insist on that system in my next house.
@@donm2255 as long as they're installed properly
Schluter is just as prone to leaking as any other system or method if not installed properly.
This dude got paid by schluter to say that 😂
@@williamp9158 I believe you are correct about that!
Getting jacked more and more 💪😁
Love your videos I’m a disabled veteran doing a remodel with a roll in shower and I hope they do this right but I’m afraid because they are going to use some kind of redguard wish me luck
Love your leak investigation videos.But now I’d make a horrible customer because I’ve watched to many how to and what not to do videos, that I would have to watch every thing the contractor does,thats not cool for everyone.So I’m watching and taking in all the info you give.At least if something goes wrong,it’s my fault and not have that feeling of someone did me wrong.If I do EXACTLY what you teach I have a good chance I can do it 👍🙏
Bathroom autopsy reveals files!!
Great work Men.
Great vid 👍
If the shower pan can't weep, the homeowner will end up shedding tears...
Thank you for your time and help me a buch watching the video
I've built hundreds of bathrooms in the last 20 years. I've never had anything like this happen to a product. How guys get away with this is amazing to me.
Love your videos. Any videos you recommend for curbless shower installation on slab?
Very nice. More stabila pls.
that's a pretty bad botch job. this is the FIRST time I heard Isaac swear under his breath, but bro, you look so calm all the time, good for you. 😅
Lol I caught that too, but you know he's right wtf was that idiot thinking? I'm not Mr Tile by any means but Good Lord
@@jh5131 right. it's just he's always as cool as a Cucumber. but definitely warranted in this case
That membrane is not supposed to be sitting on the floor. There should be a pre-slope made of mortar, then the pan liner, then a post-slope, then tile. The pre-slope allows all the water that gets past the tile and into the mortar to drain downhill. Whoever did this pan didn't have a clue what they were doing. This type of pan was the only option when I was starting out, and they were such a pain to get right that there were contractors who only did pans, and a lot of tile contractors subbed out the pans and just did tile. I was so happy when surface applied membranes came to market. They were and are a game changer.
I enjoy these longer format investigations/repairs/installs/etc. Thanks! Also, I wonder if Star's ears are burning LUL
Nice truck!
Thanks 👍 2015 Chevy!
Eh!! I have a 2016 z71. I’m jealous of your leather!
OMG, I'm so worried that I might make a mistake somewhere now. After watching your video on laying a shower pan liner and drain, and your other one on doing the mud pan, I thought I had it down. But I'm building my 30X30 shower in a skoolie and can't afford to make a mistake because we are living in it full time, it's taken me over a year to even get to even start on building our shower.
Don't feel bad, I'm right there with you. I started building our bathroom almost a year ago and just finally finished all the tile work within the last two weeks. It's our only bathroom and let me tell you, we were all bumming showers from neighbors and family during this whole process for certain stretches of time. We showered in this bathroom for months with no tile on the walls lol, that's why I opted for the 100% waterproof backer board when I was building it, because I knew I wouldn't get it all done that fast. One thing from watching Isaac, Sal, Starr, and Steve at Bathroom Remodeling Teacher is that these guys are pros and make it look easy, this is what they do for a living day in and out. I'm just a regular guy with a full time job, two kids, a wife and a bunch of other obligations. Don't be too hard on yourself, just approach it like a large meal, bite by bite. Better to go slow, do it all correctly how they explain, and have a completed project in two years than rush and have to redo it because you missed something or felt under the gun. Good luck with it man, keep pressing.
I rebuilt my shower after watching a ton of Tile Coach videos. Just take your time and pay attention to details and remember it's about channeling the water to where you want it as much as it is about water proofing. Too many focus on the latter and don't think about where water will want/need to go.
When sealing your drain, just be careful about the sealant filling in weep holes...
Like Nick mentioned, go slow and dont rush any of it. I think the good thing is if any tile ever needs replacing or anything happens im quite sure i can handle the job most cases. In my case its a fully stone/concrete floor and block walls though so no wooden subfloors or construction.
If youre not 100 percent sure, stop, ask, do some r&d before continuing. Theres plenty of helpful people and resources around.
Good luck!
Even when buying a million dollar home this issue may be lurking in all bathrooms, may as well have an outdoor shower
What were they thinking? Never use red guard in a shower. Aqua defense by Mapei is a good waterproof system. The pan liner needs to be 6 to 8 inches up all the way round. At least 2 inches above the height of the curb. There should have been a pre float under the pan liner for draining. Right on for the TileCoach. The only way to go is the right way. When it comes to building showers, especially on the second floor, we can not cut corners. Thanks, brother. Aloha🤙🏼
Very unfortunate. Looks like it was set quite well.
Amazing!! Thanks!!
I recently just did a full shower replacement that was installed basically the same but with a Schluter pan and he screwed the damn thing in, he also did not waterproof the durrock on his walls at all
The former is a huge problem. The latter not so much.
@@calvinhobbes6118 I mean sure it might not fail right away, but durrock is garbage for walls your better off using green board drywall imo but yea the whole shower was trashed and redone
That looks like DIY or two guys and a van lowest bidder don’t understand all of these water problems. I was a contractor in the 80s even did a few years in the bay area. We didn’t have all the stuff that you guys have never had a problem with water leaking. most of my career was New York City lead pans.
Quite a combination of materials there, the only thing missing is some spray foam 🫣
Those arms bro, we need your workout routine !
Stay tuned!
Lol. I hate to say it but I noticed it also.
He's training for the next mud Olympics
I was thinking “this looks like a Starr tile job” before you even said it 😂
Very helpful channel. thanks. Reinforces my confidence in my approach of only using acrylic shower bases. I don't mind that it doesn't look as high end as tiled membraned showers (it's only in my own homes), I just know they've never failed me and I can still have luxury tile , Ditra heat and glass panels everywhere else in the bathrooms.
they have custom shower bases that can be tiled over. I researched after seeing these disasters. A shower pan is the way to go.. many different materials colors see research..
If you are doing it DIY and have the money, heck if your client has the $$$. Use a Tile Ready or equivalent pre-formed base made specifically for your project.
Yes, they are pricey, but EASY to install and they dont leak.
With all the great information out there, and you still see things like this. If you don't know how to do something, there are so many videos on just about every subject you may want to try. Learn how things work !! That's half the battle.
Thanks for the videos. You have helped me out more than I can say. One question if I may. What kind of primer should I use on new "green" drywall outside of the shower before tiling? Just going 4' up outside the shower and didn't have enough hydro-ban board so I used some leftover green board. Dry area so no need to waterproof. I saw a video of Sal-D putting tile right on some purple drywall with no primer at all. I am using laticrete multimax lite thinset. I was concerned the drywall would suck all the moisture out of the thinset before it could cure properly. Also concerned about the thinset adhering to the primer. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
It is always a good idea to prime unfinished drywall before tiling over it.
Wow, look at that caulking job under the tub, an omen of things to come?
Great vid, but would’ve been cool to see the troubleshooting, demo, and repair.. was this even repaired properly
Are you filming the repair???? GOTTA BE!!!!
My experience with RedGard is close inspection after each coat is essential. Might look like complete, thorough coverage, but scrutiny from a very short distance may reveal tiny pinholes (for lack of a better term) in the waterproofing.
Failure to locate, cover these microscopic flaws in the waterproofing, especially in the shower pan, could lead to a scenario as depicted in this video.
Plus you have to use fabric between first and second coat If ihave to do a red guard pan I put fabric at all walls where they pan and curb and over drain body and before I install tile I do water test and let sit at least 48 hours to make sure no leaks
thank you
nice safety glasses
Great vid. Love your content. What do you think about hot mop?
That's the old way of doing it and pretty uncommon these days. Much better systems out there. Kerdi, Wedi, KBRS, GoBoard, etc.
Please make a video of how to install acrylic shower pans!!! I can’t trust these other RUclips tile guys!! 😅😅
Wow. That was really assembled badly to leak that bad.
Everyone at 13:49 listen really close. I am actually scared now of what else is out there but maybe with some curiosity. Tile coach where ever you’re at has to be where my dad and I tore out one just like that about 10 years ago. Bay Area.