Whatever it is it's definitely pathetic. I mean more than one person took a week to come up with this, yikes. What a searing indictment of the industry.
Depends on the context really. It's a common enough term to be used if the product itself is supposed to be niche, but acknowledgement of the word doesn't extend much outside of anime/japanese-oriented spaces. Schadenfreude is only widely known because of a song from a popular musical that got everywhere for quite some time.
@@chucklebouf5379 You're never going to see it in a context where you need to translate it for normies to understand. If someone is consuming anime, or a Japanese game, they can learn what the term means.
Rule I use translating is can someone can speak both languages translate my translation of the original text back into the original text or very close to it while retaining meaning and emotion of it.
I understand that French, lol. In English it's apple tart. I know this because I haven't forgotten my mother who took 4 years of french explaining that potatoes are called pommes de terre, or apple of the earth.
This person literally said "It took us several weeks to figure out how to install the message into this line of dialogue" These people are so incompetent they barely can even insert their pre-programmed messaging into a game without struggling.
Send weeks trying to come up with a replacement for “TSUNDERE”, come up with “Fragile Male Ego”, the most COMMON WOKE ANSWER IMAGINABLE…… WHY NOT USE “TSUNDERE” AND BE DONE WITH IT!?!? 99.99999% of the Anime fans KNOW WHAT TSUNDERE MEANS!!! Another example of the delusions of a WOKALIZERS….
It is a trope about how one character (typically female, but does not have to be) relates to another character (typically male, but does not have to be). How "fragile male ego" could be regarded as anywhere near what "tsundere" actually refers to is abjectly stupid, if not malicious. I imagine they did this because it is typically a trope relating to romantic relationships.
"Tsundere" in English is "Tsundere". If you partake of Japanese entertainment it's something you must learn like sempai, kohai, sensei, -kun, -chan, and -san/-sama. Heck even TouYube's (or my browser's) spell checker knows the first 3.
Weeb shit thinking. Nothing featuring a kin, San, sama , senpai deserves to be called a translation. It is the job of a translator to render these elegantly - it is easily doable, without “localizers” to boot. There is no excuse for weebshit translations just as there is none for propaganda wokealizations.
That "fragile make ego" isn't naming cats, dressing them in baby clothes, putting them in shopping carts like strollers, and pushing them around Wal-Mart, m'lady.
Fragile localizer ego. It'd be easier to call someone who's a tsundere "moody" and move on. Simple, easy, and it works. Or you can use the term itself like how we call pizza the same in all countries. Edit: thanks to all the support and suggestions.
"moody" isn't quite as insulting as tsundere would be for a guy. She's telling him that he's secretly a fragile lovey-dovey pile of mush who's only pretending to be aggressive and standoffish to hide his insecurity.
Moody is a very good word for tsundere. You could also just say. "Emo." Cause honestly, the tsundere personalty is VERY much what we associate with emo, this teenager who thinks he or she is so totally edgy, but really the person is just... You know... a teenager who cares just as much as anybody else.
The original line was something like 来てやったわ、このツンデレ馬鹿野郎 If you ABSOLUTELY must avoid using the word "tsundere", it translates to something like "I have come, you stupid volatile man." Doesn't take 5 seconds to come with that translation, yet that localizer took WEEKs to be wrong!
Volatile isn't nearly as insulting as "Tsundere". I'd go for something sarcastic like "I'm here now. Your fragile little heart can rest." or "I'm here. No need to throw a tantrum"
@@Strill_ It is if you're calling them out. Tsundere implies a front. The aggression and hostility is cover for affection that they don't want to admit to. Tsun - Disgust/Repulsion, Dere - Affection. The most popular english thing covering the concept would be Katy Perry's Hot N Cold, which describes at least one implementation of the tsundere archetype and why sometimes this will get translated as Hot-and-cold/Hot-cold person, though this translation also tends to make people cringe.
Not quite. Tsundere implies a front or the aggression is a cover for affection. While the concept is known in english, the basic idea of a schoolkid bullying their crush, there's not really an easy term for it. I think the closest to an actual term is talking about the hedgehog's dilemma and even that's not really right. Just saying someone is thorny, prickly or standoffish doesn't capture the whole idea either.
Aw, I like tsundere characters. "Someone, usually a woman, who plays hard to get" would be a better definition, I think. A funny parody of this trope is in Uncle from Another World, where the protagonist was Isekai'd to a typical fantasy world before the word "tsundere" became popularized and just thinks the heroine hates him.
@@FreakazoidRobotsin spite of the fact that we've have had countless tales of characters transported to other worlds: Alice, Dorothy, those rascals in Narnia, etc., we didn't have a good, compact term like "isekai'd" until recently. Same thing with Google as a verb. Yes, you can say, "look it up using a web search tool," but nobody is saying that.
@@chucklebouf5379 Prickly works if Tsundere used when some one approaches them, If they the, Tsundere, approaches other person themselves, need a different translations.
I still think Tsundere is a well enough known word in the circles that would be playing this game that very few would not know what it means at this point. Sure if it were the early 2000s or maybe even the 2010s I could understand it but come on it's been decades now that that term has been floating around even in the west so there's really no excuse.
Good localization always respects the creators idea. It makes sure whatever the source material says is understood by the audience. Doesn't change it. Doesn't add something else. Doesn't inject an ideology absent in the source material. These people are unprofessional.
The biggest irony here, and it's one of the reasons I hate the "localizer bad" crowd as much as I hate the localizers, is the fact that the source material is a sad tale about tr00nery and other woke stuff, literally, so this localization is actually super appropriate. You people never fact check anything.
@@niccosalonga9009when the translator works closely with the author and the author approves of the translation, saying that it's totally in character (you can look for the tweets, they should still exist) it's not a bad translation. People just can't examine things on a case-by-case basis or are just in denial that their sacred cow of weeb shit can be woke.
I remember the era of fansubs where you'd have words like 'tsundere' explained in a different part of the screen, usually in different color to make it stand out from the rest of the translation. I also remember Visual Novels doing that, like Umineko no Naku Koro ni which had a separate menu that would explain if a character used slang or would talk in a manner unusual from normal (one of the female characters were talking more like a boy would, emphasizing she was a bit of a tomboy). I wish the times when we experience and learn from a culture came back instead of 'localizing' everything into what we know. Part of what I enjoy about anime and it's fandom is how different it is.
Oh my God… I’m sure a million other people have said this too, but in the year 2024 the word tsundere absolutely does not require any translation. This localization REMOVES context, not adds it.
Like when they translate oniichan into "bro bro". Because nobody can understand oniichan, but "bro bro" is what all little sisters call their brothers daily.
For what it's worth, a number of tsunderes seem to act that way because they are unwilling to admit they like something, whether out of pride, embarrassment, stubbornness, or whatever. So, depending on the context, "fragile ego" could convey the same idea. "Male" comes from their misandry, of course.
Cause they want to pander to the lowest common denominator who knows jacks**t about anime or otaku culture in general and is just hoping on a trend without meaningfully engaging with the medium beyond watching only the most popular and mainstream shows at the moment. So, shounentards.
Tsundere is character trope for male / female who act aggressive or stand offish to potential a friend or love interest not "fragile male ego" or some other nonsense these localizers...
Bear in mind that “tsundere” is non-gendered. It is a portmanteau of two Japanese terms: _Tsun tsun,_ which roughly means “aloof” and _dere dere,_ which equates to “smitten” or “lovestruck.” So basically it’s a term for someone who displays one emotion, but acts in a contrary manner. That’s why the meme goes “I-it’s not like I like you, or anything!” To translate “tsundere” to “fragile male ego” with regards to a woman speaking to a man is like if a man said to a woman “Still acting like a crazy b__ch?” Do you think that these people would accept that?
So I've been wondering why this isn't against the American Translators Associations code of ethics? As far as I can see its due to the exception in rule 6? "depending on the context of the source, purpose, readership or audience, and medium" However I notice no such exception is included in what Japanese translation code of ethics I looked at (But they have a lot of different associations I think) and I can't see such an exception in my countries code either (NZ). So once again, its an American imperialism problem.
It probably is, but that doesn't really matter. Not like these people are under some kind of regulatory body that has any real power or anything. They're just randoms who (sometimes) can pass a Japanese test.
That gives more of the feel of being bi-polar (which may still be the case). Even the literal "cold-love" doesn't quite capture the Japanese term. Even English dubs can't capture the emotion (Nier:Automata is an example).
@@timsievers2067 Yea, what Vee said 'playing hard to get' is probably closer than hot & cold. IIRC in the english dub of "The Disastrous Life of Saiki K" they just left the word tsundere as-is, but I think Saiki explains it. Since much of the show is him narrating to the audience about his life and what's going on anyway it works there, whereas it wouldn't in other shows.
@@timsievers2067 It could be contextually right. There is an implementation of the tsundere that's pretty much just bipolar. The typical implementation is more that the person is covering their real feelings though and overreacting so nobody can find out (which makes people know). In that case the 'playing hard to get' might be more accurate, but only in the case that the person is reacting to being pursued, which is not always the case either. The opposite side of that coin would be the bully who secretly likes their victim and the bullying is so they don't get their crush found out, which is recognized as a thing in the english world but there's no term for it to use.
How adorable, the tough guys acting all cute Hey there, no need to be shy tough guy Hello man, is that macho exterior holding up mr softy It took a few minutes to come up with this (yeah im reposting this, sorry) Bonus one Why hello there Hows the tough guy act mr softy
a lot of localizers that claim the script is boring as a defense don't want to admit that the heavy lifting of the entertainment value was done by the JP VA's performance and the artist's impeccable visuals. All they had to do was make a legible script and voila, a potential smash hit that'd could to turn into a cult classic is born.
Part of what I enjoy about anime is that I get to learn about different terms. Terms that aren’t exactly hard to find definitions of these days because search engines and many resources are free. I’m sure you could find a more accurate definition of “tsundere” on Urban Dictionary than what these localizers spat out. Even new anime fans need to learn some basics like honorifics and archetypes in Japanese media. It’s just part of getting into the medium.
Allow me to make an edgy joke for a moment. "There's no use for the word Fragile Female Ego because everyone knows that's the default." Thank you, I'll see you at my cancellation.
Reminds me of the second Death end game having a block of text to translate "gap moe." At that point just assume that the only people interested in the game would understand what that means.
The same as with senpai. You can translate it as senior, but it often requires a bit more than that to get the point across, at which time, it's bordering on verbosity. (^p^;)
They had tough meetings to come up with a translation. It was so hard for them. I just googled 'translate tsundere into english' 'The short answer: Tsundere is an adjective used to describe a person or character who swings between emotionally hot and cold, in particular when dealing with a love interest. Especially used to describe someone who is usually cold or cranky but occasionally shows a soft, kind, mushy side.' Took me 3 seconds, and 2 of those was copy pasting it here.
There was actually a serious article on localizing recently from RockPaperShotgun (Yeah ... I know...) for the recent Yakuza game about what goes into it. The title is dumb but it does touch upon some topics of translation (or localization) that are interesting. I would say it's probably a more accurate window into what's done than what these Twitterites have to say about it.
Tsun = standoffish behaviour dere = lover's behaviour Actual meaning, being standoffish to hide a character's true feelings. There, done in less than 10 minutes, no week long meetings needed.
Several weeks to come up with a translation for "tsundere" (love that terrible pronunciation too, Vee), seriously!? I first saw this word back in the noughties as a literal title for an aloof/lovestruck girl in an adult manga - ah, I think I just went and defined the term there. As somebody below rightly said, it's pretty much the same as the word "moody" in English. (=^_^=) (Hmm, I wonder how long it would be take him to come up with a definition for the word 'senpai'.)
Why, hello there. Still acting tough? Still playing hard to get? Still pretending you don't like me? I did this in a minute. Why don't I need SEVERAL weeks of brainstorming to conjure this miracle?
A "tsundere" would be perhaps something like "stuck up". That's the closest that I can think of based on the context I've seen it being used. Going from that to "fragile male ego" is pure, unadulterated, 100% sociopolitical, far leftist, feminazi propaganda bullshit and it's hilariously transparent. There's a difference between struggling to translate a unique word or phrase from another language to a language that doesn't have that, and injecting "current day politics" to completely unrelated stuff by using the excuse of "I didn't know how to translate it so I made it about my evil extremist politics".
Instead of saying you're being tsundere just say "you're not being honest about your feelings" or "I know you're saving face" or smth depending on context.
I will never play a Japanese visual novel or RPG maker game in English unless it is by a very small selection of localizers I've been following for years and whom I know passionately translate things the way they are meant to be. The vast majority of Japanese games I play (visual novels and RPG maker games) I simply use a text hooking program, translation aggregators, and sometimes if the text hooking isn't good enough I use a screen OCR program to capture text to be auto translated. Translation software is pretty dang good nowadays, you don't need it to be localized for you. If you don't mind learning how to use these programs, it's by far the best method through which to make sure you're getting an accurate translation.
New loanwords in the English language in "Current Year" are their Kryptonite / Achilles' heel. Those Yoomers and Zoomers were raised on 4kids version of Pokémon and abridged animed shows... (onigiri = jelly-filled doughnuts, not rice pastries to them) and it shows!
At this point, I think it's fair to call modern localization simply cultural appropriation, because really, that's what it is now. Not only is it cultural appropriation, it's the textbook definition of it.
I can't even figureout what original text even is from localizer "translation". I need to see the original text to figure how to actually translate to English.
Would have been better if it was just something like "Sweet and sour attitude", if not just keep "Tsundere" since it's particularly well known and adopted in most spheres that engage with Japanese media.
I looked up what tsundere means. It's not that hard to translate. You just need to use different phrases depending on the context of how it was used. I'm not sure about the context of how it was used but I could easily translate it in many contexts. If it was something like "You're a tsundere." I would translate it as "You're giving off mixed signals." Several other phrases would work depending on the context of how it's used. And if I were to use two sentences, I could get far more descriptive. Fire them and hire me. I have 0 experience, but apparently, I can do the job better. That took me seconds of thought to make something that roughly gets the point across, instead of weeks of meetings that result in the original text being ignored just to make up some crap that nobody likes.
How TF do you get 'fragile male ego' from 'Tsundere?' Morgana should be saying something along the lines of "don't play coy with me." or "Why are you acting up?" if you must make it about his ego, why not just say 'fragile ego' and make it gender ambiguous? Was the original conversation gendered? This shit isn't as hard as they're making it out to be.
Coulda just left it at "fragile ego," which would have been a gross mistranslation anyway, but at least it wouldn't have been sexist. I don't understand why this is so complicated for these people.
Translation LoL from Guild Wars 2 for the GvG Mount En: Warclaw Es: Garrabélica De: Kriegsklaue Fr: ...... Razziafelis In French MMO style Raids are just "raid" not "razzia", and "felis" is not the word you would use for a lion, panther, big cat.
I just have 1 question to that "localizer": would you translate a female tsundere (a trope far more common than a male tsundere) as "fragile female ego"?
No cause a male is called a tsundere because of their fragile male ego While a female is only ever called a tsundere because fragile male egos are intimidated by a strong independent woman BS logic but honestly wouldn't be surprised if they genuinely thought like that
about the ramen thing , ramen isnt even a japanese word/dish , its always written in katakana , the kana they use for foreign words, so it would be even stupider to translate it lol.
Bro, the word in English for Tsundere is a leela, like the Futurama character, which name, is literally his character; thing that also happens in manga and anime Lol
If you're having a hard time localizing a specific term or name, don't translate it. Leave it as it is, and add a note to further explain what it means, assuming it's a possibility. Pathfinder: Kingmaker and WotR did it pretty well with their dialogue boxes. Although I suspect that it's just a cheap excuse by the localizer. Regardless, this is one of the reasons why I completely stopped consuming subtitled content. I remember back in 2018 when RDR2 came out. I was watching a let's play on RUclips and I noticed that whoever Rockstar hired for the job translated a dialogue that said, "You speak as if killing is something I care about," where the subtext is that Arthur is showing that he's ruthless, as "You speak as if I enjoyed killing.", as if Arthur was bothered by Thomas Downes' death at all. It is hilarious because Arthur, in that same scene, threatens to kill Archie Downes for staring at him.
Tsundere could easily be translated to someone who isn't honest with their feelings. It's not exactly rocket science and ego has fuck all to do with it. Most tsundere characters are the way they are because of being shy, not because of a massive ego or some other retarded shit.
so....if this is a male tsundere, would that mean a female tsundere is "fragile female ego"? Cause tsundere, like many emotional states, can be given to both male and female and if that is their translation of the male, then the female translation should be exactly the same, right?
All the tsundere girls in anime and their fragile male ego's. 😅 Also honestly tsundere is such an abused term, it was supposed to just mean a character that's cold and distant at first until they get to know you and warm up into lovey mush. Now it's been troped into nonsense bipolar characters to flip flop obnoxiously.
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This isn't localization, this is just vandalism.
Sabotage.
Whatever it is it's definitely pathetic.
I mean more than one person took a week to come up with this, yikes.
What a searing indictment of the industry.
Eyup
I do not accept localsplaining.
Can’t argue with buzzwords 😂
@@grein545 Turning buzzwords on their leftist abusers can really get their "fragile marxist ego" bent out of shape 🤣
Localsplaining, adding that to my vocabulary
corretion....i rather call it 'wokesplaining', cause tatswho they are
Translating "Tsundere" today makes as much sense as translating schadenfreude.
Depends on the context really. It's a common enough term to be used if the product itself is supposed to be niche, but acknowledgement of the word doesn't extend much outside of anime/japanese-oriented spaces. Schadenfreude is only widely known because of a song from a popular musical that got everywhere for quite some time.
@@chucklebouf5379
We're talking about an anime-oriented space. You're right, but the distinction is irrelevant in the current context.
Makes as much sense as translating Beef (Boeuf) to English.
God forbid people open a dictionary or Google a word to find its basic definition
@@chucklebouf5379 You're never going to see it in a context where you need to translate it for normies to understand. If someone is consuming anime, or a Japanese game, they can learn what the term means.
"Tsundere" into "fragile male ego" make as much sense as "tarte aux pommes" into "rotten toast."
Rule I use translating is can someone can speak both languages translate my translation of the original text back into the original text or very close to it while retaining meaning and emotion of it.
@@aj.j5833 Precisely! It's what I always strive for myself. (^_^)
I understand that French, lol. In English it's apple tart.
I know this because I haven't forgotten my mother who took 4 years of french explaining that potatoes are called pommes de terre, or apple of the earth.
@@raumograeywolf5477 I just had family drunk yelling French at each other.
This person literally said "It took us several weeks to figure out how to install the message into this line of dialogue"
These people are so incompetent they barely can even insert their pre-programmed messaging into a game without struggling.
that's just what happens when you destroy a person's brain/soul by psychologically subverting them....
Send weeks trying to come up with a replacement for “TSUNDERE”, come up with “Fragile Male Ego”, the most COMMON WOKE ANSWER IMAGINABLE……
WHY NOT USE “TSUNDERE” AND BE DONE WITH IT!?!? 99.99999% of the Anime fans KNOW WHAT TSUNDERE MEANS!!! Another example of the delusions of a WOKALIZERS….
It is a trope about how one character (typically female, but does not have to be) relates to another character (typically male, but does not have to be). How "fragile male ego" could be regarded as anywhere near what "tsundere" actually refers to is abjectly stupid, if not malicious.
I imagine they did this because it is typically a trope relating to romantic relationships.
Could translate it as bipolar, moody, pretentious, etc. depending on the context.
@@sbdnsngdsnsns31312None of those would work.
3 weeks and came up with “Fragile male ego” for tsundere?
That should be instant fired
What happened to my reply? I didn't even say anything "offensive". God this site sucks.
"Tsundere" in English is "Tsundere". If you partake of Japanese entertainment it's something you must learn like sempai, kohai, sensei, -kun, -chan, and -san/-sama. Heck even TouYube's (or my browser's) spell checker knows the first 3.
Weeb shit thinking. Nothing featuring a kin, San, sama , senpai deserves to be called a translation. It is the job of a translator to render these elegantly - it is easily doable, without “localizers” to boot. There is no excuse for weebshit translations just as there is none for propaganda wokealizations.
@qwads "what a delicious hamburger" vibes.
Mofos can't accept other countries existing.
@qwads "Coca-Cola - flavored sparkling water" Funniest thing is that would still be way more accurate than translating tsundere to "fragile male ego"
And if your normy boss forces you to change it bipolar is a good substitute.
Yeah if we keep letting them changing stuff we gonna end up like when they change rice ball into jelly donut again.
That "fragile make ego" isn't naming cats, dressing them in baby clothes, putting them in shopping carts like strollers, and pushing them around Wal-Mart, m'lady.
Fragile localizer ego. It'd be easier to call someone who's a tsundere "moody" and move on. Simple, easy, and it works. Or you can use the term itself like how we call pizza the same in all countries.
Edit: thanks to all the support and suggestions.
"moody" isn't quite as insulting as tsundere would be for a guy. She's telling him that he's secretly a fragile lovey-dovey pile of mush who's only pretending to be aggressive and standoffish to hide his insecurity.
Moody is a very good word for tsundere.
You could also just say. "Emo."
Cause honestly, the tsundere personalty is VERY much what we associate with emo, this teenager who thinks he or she is so totally edgy, but really the person is just... You know... a teenager who cares just as much as anybody else.
Moody, temperamental, shrewd, passive aggressive, irritable, etc. There are so many options but localizers clearly don’t know what a thesaurus is.
I think “hard to get” might be more appropriate but still not 100%
@@MoonPhantom Prickly be closer. You can just go comparing him to a cat.
I'm curious now, what's the difference between a fragile male ego, a fragile female ego, and a general fragile human ego?
Shhhhh the leftist was trying to to insult the audience not make any sense.
They hate one of them, worship another, and would destroy the last one if it meant getting away with what they want
Various degrees of emotional intelligence/intelligence mostly being the big separating factor between the three
The original line was something like 来てやったわ、このツンデレ馬鹿野郎
If you ABSOLUTELY must avoid using the word "tsundere", it translates to something like "I have come, you stupid volatile man."
Doesn't take 5 seconds to come with that translation, yet that localizer took WEEKs to be wrong!
Volatile isn't nearly as insulting as "Tsundere". I'd go for something sarcastic like "I'm here now. Your fragile little heart can rest." or "I'm here. No need to throw a tantrum"
Why "volatile" and not "pretending to be tough" (as I understand that's tsundere archetype is all about)?
@@alexanderwsm6296"Pretending to be tough" is accurate, but that's not what you'd actually say to someone who is pretending to be tough.
@@Strill_ It is if you're calling them out. Tsundere implies a front. The aggression and hostility is cover for affection that they don't want to admit to. Tsun - Disgust/Repulsion, Dere - Affection. The most popular english thing covering the concept would be Katy Perry's Hot N Cold, which describes at least one implementation of the tsundere archetype and why sometimes this will get translated as Hot-and-cold/Hot-cold person, though this translation also tends to make people cringe.
How about a sarcastic "I'm here, `tough guy`"?
Me, an intellectual: Shrew
I’ll just send you an invoice for $1200 for my services.
🎩
🐍 no step on snek!🇺🇸🇭🇰
Not quite. Tsundere implies a front or the aggression is a cover for affection. While the concept is known in english, the basic idea of a schoolkid bullying their crush, there's not really an easy term for it. I think the closest to an actual term is talking about the hedgehog's dilemma and even that's not really right. Just saying someone is thorny, prickly or standoffish doesn't capture the whole idea either.
Aw, I like tsundere characters. "Someone, usually a woman, who plays hard to get" would be a better definition, I think. A funny parody of this trope is in Uncle from Another World, where the protagonist was Isekai'd to a typical fantasy world before the word "tsundere" became popularized and just thinks the heroine hates him.
@@FreakazoidRobotsin spite of the fact that we've have had countless tales of characters transported to other worlds: Alice, Dorothy, those rascals in Narnia, etc., we didn't have a good, compact term like "isekai'd" until recently.
Same thing with Google as a verb. Yes, you can say, "look it up using a web search tool," but nobody is saying that.
@@chucklebouf5379 Prickly works if Tsundere used when some one approaches them, If they the, Tsundere, approaches other person themselves, need a different translations.
I still think Tsundere is a well enough known word in the circles that would be playing this game that very few would not know what it means at this point. Sure if it were the early 2000s or maybe even the 2010s I could understand it but come on it's been decades now that that term has been floating around even in the west so there's really no excuse.
Good localization always respects the creators idea. It makes sure whatever the source material says is understood by the audience. Doesn't change it. Doesn't add something else. Doesn't inject an ideology absent in the source material.
These people are unprofessional.
The biggest irony here, and it's one of the reasons I hate the "localizer bad" crowd as much as I hate the localizers, is the fact that the source material is a sad tale about tr00nery and other woke stuff, literally, so this localization is actually super appropriate. You people never fact check anything.
How did the VN denounced Gender Ideology and Transgenderism?
Well the localizers couldn't hold themselves from inserting a fraction of their biases in the behind the scenes, couldn't they?
@@Aesthetic_DialecticBad translation is bad translation.
@@niccosalonga9009when the translator works closely with the author and the author approves of the translation, saying that it's totally in character (you can look for the tweets, they should still exist) it's not a bad translation. People just can't examine things on a case-by-case basis or are just in denial that their sacred cow of weeb shit can be woke.
It took them 5min to come up with that translation.
It took them several weeks to all agree that they'd get away with it.
Ah yes fragile male ego is definitely the translation of all time
I remember the era of fansubs where you'd have words like 'tsundere' explained in a different part of the screen, usually in different color to make it stand out from the rest of the translation. I also remember Visual Novels doing that, like Umineko no Naku Koro ni which had a separate menu that would explain if a character used slang or would talk in a manner unusual from normal (one of the female characters were talking more like a boy would, emphasizing she was a bit of a tomboy).
I wish the times when we experience and learn from a culture came back instead of 'localizing' everything into what we know. Part of what I enjoy about anime and it's fandom is how different it is.
Eat the goddamn jelly donut!
Oh my God… I’m sure a million other people have said this too, but in the year 2024 the word tsundere absolutely does not require any translation. This localization REMOVES context, not adds it.
Like when they translate oniichan into "bro bro". Because nobody can understand oniichan, but "bro bro" is what all little sisters call their brothers daily.
A terrible excuse for vandalism. Im glad these people are getting called out.
Things become increasingly more difficult the more try to twist reality around a lie.
I have no earthly idea how they got "fragile male ego" from "tsundere." Either they don't know what "tsundere" means, or they don't give a shit.
It took them weeks. Clearly they cared to make it as bad as possible. It's malice.
@@denkerbosu3551 If it took these lolcowlizers weeks to come up with *that,* no wonder their stories are inept garbage.
For what it's worth, a number of tsunderes seem to act that way because they are unwilling to admit they like something, whether out of pride, embarrassment, stubbornness, or whatever. So, depending on the context, "fragile ego" could convey the same idea.
"Male" comes from their misandry, of course.
My JP would barely qualify as grade school level, mainly because kanji is pain, and I could still do an objectively better job than localisers.
Why the fuck would you ever bother to translate "Tsundere."
Because these hacks trying to justify them being paid for doing wokeization in bad faith.
Cause they want to pander to the lowest common denominator who knows jacks**t about anime or otaku culture in general and is just hoping on a trend without meaningfully engaging with the medium beyond watching only the most popular and mainstream shows at the moment.
So, shounentards.
Right? It's like changing the meaning of Onii-Chan...oh wait.
Because we're not going back to the "nakama cannot POSSIBLY be translated into English" but this is also not actual translation it's subversion.
The projection that's going on with this fragile male ego accusation. Those silly accusers assume we all think like they do.
one of the translations of all time
The amount of work doesn't negate the fact that you've done shit job.
Localizer: it took us several weeks to figure out how to use a can opener.
Stop judging me by being able-ist ya bigot.😂😂😂😂
I like how I can look at the word on the internet and see multiple explanations that do not resemble what was chosen
YOU'VE BEEN TSUNDERESTRUCK
at this point.
with the amount of weebs out there.
just keep tsundere.
1st rule of Wokeology...."thou shall defend the Message"
My ego is mostly unstable
Wouldn't calling him bi-polar have been just as insulting and more accurate as a translation as well as matching lip-flaps if necessary?
Hair trigger sociopaths projecting their fragile egos onto others
Tsundere is character trope for male / female who act aggressive or stand offish to potential a friend or love interest not "fragile male ego" or some other nonsense these localizers...
Bear in mind that “tsundere” is non-gendered. It is a portmanteau of two Japanese terms: _Tsun tsun,_ which roughly means “aloof” and _dere dere,_ which equates to “smitten” or “lovestruck.” So basically it’s a term for someone who displays one emotion, but acts in a contrary manner. That’s why the meme goes “I-it’s not like I like you, or anything!”
To translate “tsundere” to “fragile male ego” with regards to a woman speaking to a man is like if a man said to a woman “Still acting like a crazy b__ch?” Do you think that these people would accept that?
They did not translate "tsundere". They attempted to redefine it into something completely different.
"My male ego? Pretty good, not as bad as your fragile female feelings" 😎
Meanwhile the popular undertale had a character named "tsunderplane"
They spent weeks brainstorming this and got it completely fucking wrong in the end? Wow, the competency crisis is beginning
So I've been wondering why this isn't against the American Translators Associations code of ethics? As far as I can see its due to the exception in rule 6? "depending on the context of the source, purpose, readership or audience, and medium"
However I notice no such exception is included in what Japanese translation code of ethics I looked at (But they have a lot of different associations I think) and I can't see such an exception in my countries code either (NZ).
So once again, its an American imperialism problem.
It probably is, but that doesn't really matter. Not like these people are under some kind of regulatory body that has any real power or anything. They're just randoms who (sometimes) can pass a Japanese test.
I understand "tsundare" as being the phrase "hot & cold". I know that's not quite right, but it's close-ish.
That gives more of the feel of being bi-polar (which may still be the case). Even the literal "cold-love" doesn't quite capture the Japanese term. Even English dubs can't capture the emotion (Nier:Automata is an example).
@@timsievers2067 Yea, what Vee said 'playing hard to get' is probably closer than hot & cold. IIRC in the english dub of "The Disastrous Life of Saiki K" they just left the word tsundere as-is, but I think Saiki explains it. Since much of the show is him narrating to the audience about his life and what's going on anyway it works there, whereas it wouldn't in other shows.
@@timsievers2067 It could be contextually right. There is an implementation of the tsundere that's pretty much just bipolar. The typical implementation is more that the person is covering their real feelings though and overreacting so nobody can find out (which makes people know). In that case the 'playing hard to get' might be more accurate, but only in the case that the person is reacting to being pursued, which is not always the case either. The opposite side of that coin would be the bully who secretly likes their victim and the bullying is so they don't get their crush found out, which is recognized as a thing in the english world but there's no term for it to use.
How adorable, the tough guys acting all cute
Hey there, no need to be shy tough guy
Hello man, is that macho exterior holding up mr softy
It took a few minutes to come up with this (yeah im reposting this, sorry)
Bonus one
Why hello there
Hows the tough guy act mr softy
It took us weeks to translate innocent tease to sexist insult
a lot of localizers that claim the script is boring as a defense don't want to admit that the heavy lifting of the entertainment value was done by the JP VA's performance and the artist's impeccable visuals. All they had to do was make a legible script and voila, a potential smash hit that'd could to turn into a cult classic is born.
O.K. is an abbreviation of Oll Korrect which was from a fashionable phase in the 1920s of making up silly words.
Localizers be like "What's '...soon dairy'? better google it."
Love them jelly donuts
Localizers think drawning a goatee in the Mona Lisa with a sharpie makes them like Picasso lmao
Part of what I enjoy about anime is that I get to learn about different terms. Terms that aren’t exactly hard to find definitions of these days because search engines and many resources are free. I’m sure you could find a more accurate definition of “tsundere” on Urban Dictionary than what these localizers spat out. Even new anime fans need to learn some basics like honorifics and archetypes in Japanese media. It’s just part of getting into the medium.
Allow me to make an edgy joke for a moment.
"There's no use for the word Fragile Female Ego because everyone knows that's the default."
Thank you, I'll see you at my cancellation.
Reminds me of the second Death end game having a block of text to translate "gap moe." At that point just assume that the only people interested in the game would understand what that means.
The same as with senpai. You can translate it as senior, but it often requires a bit more than that to get the point across, at which time, it's bordering on verbosity. (^p^;)
Thank you for staying on this.
It is "hard" because they are going far and beyond what they are suppose to be doing.
They had tough meetings to come up with a translation. It was so hard for them.
I just googled 'translate tsundere into english'
'The short answer: Tsundere is an adjective used to describe a person or character who swings between emotionally hot and cold, in particular when dealing with a love interest. Especially used to describe someone who is usually cold or cranky but occasionally shows a soft, kind, mushy side.'
Took me 3 seconds, and 2 of those was copy pasting it here.
LOL! I asked what Tsundere means in ChatGPT it hanged!!! 🤣
NVM it was my internet that was borked.
Wrestling with the vast depth and definition of Tsundere doing cosmic battle with the grammar and syntax Forging the cringe of darkest memories
There was actually a serious article on localizing recently from RockPaperShotgun (Yeah ... I know...) for the recent Yakuza game about what goes into it. The title is dumb but it does touch upon some topics of translation (or localization) that are interesting. I would say it's probably a more accurate window into what's done than what these Twitterites have to say about it.
there's an English expression for Tsundere, like the concept actually exists in the west. it's called playing hard to get.
weebs: "JUST SAY TSUNDERE"
normal people: "WHAT THE HELL IS TSUNDERE"
Wouldn't an accurate translation be something like "Ice Queen" it's not exact but it makes more sense and is still insulting.
Tsun = standoffish behaviour
dere = lover's behaviour
Actual meaning, being standoffish to hide a character's true feelings.
There, done in less than 10 minutes, no week long meetings needed.
Anyone who watches anime knows what a tsundere is at this point.
Several weeks to come up with a translation for "tsundere" (love that terrible pronunciation too, Vee), seriously!? I first saw this word back in the noughties as a literal title for an aloof/lovestruck girl in an adult manga - ah, I think I just went and defined the term there. As somebody below rightly said, it's pretty much the same as the word "moody" in English. (=^_^=)
(Hmm, I wonder how long it would be take him to come up with a definition for the word 'senpai'.)
Why, hello there. Still acting tough?
Still playing hard to get?
Still pretending you don't like me?
I did this in a minute. Why don't I need SEVERAL weeks of brainstorming to conjure this miracle?
A "tsundere" would be perhaps something like "stuck up". That's the closest that I can think of based on the context I've seen it being used.
Going from that to "fragile male ego" is pure, unadulterated, 100% sociopolitical, far leftist, feminazi propaganda bullshit and it's hilariously transparent.
There's a difference between struggling to translate a unique word or phrase from another language to a language that doesn't have that, and injecting "current day politics" to completely unrelated stuff by using the excuse of "I didn't know how to translate it so I made it about my evil extremist politics".
It literally just means your shy.
I always thought a tsundere was a jealous girl with unrequited love from someone not a cold aloof male who acts tough but is really soft on the inside
Tsundere= not being honest with your feelings/ responding to embarrassment with agression. It's not really hard.
Instead of saying you're being tsundere just say "you're not being honest about your feelings" or "I know you're saving face" or smth depending on context.
You translate ramen as jello donut of course 😂
Why, hello there.
Still playing hard to get?
Is what i came up with in 5 seconds...
I will never play a Japanese visual novel or RPG maker game in English unless it is by a very small selection of localizers I've been following for years and whom I know passionately translate things the way they are meant to be. The vast majority of Japanese games I play (visual novels and RPG maker games) I simply use a text hooking program, translation aggregators, and sometimes if the text hooking isn't good enough I use a screen OCR program to capture text to be auto translated. Translation software is pretty dang good nowadays, you don't need it to be localized for you. If you don't mind learning how to use these programs, it's by far the best method through which to make sure you're getting an accurate translation.
How does tsundere translate into fragile male ego? Just leave it as tsundere.
New loanwords in the English language in "Current Year" are their Kryptonite / Achilles' heel.
Those Yoomers and Zoomers were raised on 4kids version of Pokémon and abridged animed shows... (onigiri = jelly-filled doughnuts, not rice pastries to them) and it shows!
At this point, I think it's fair to call modern localization simply cultural appropriation, because really, that's what it is now. Not only is it cultural appropriation, it's the textbook definition of it.
I can't even figureout what original text even is from localizer "translation". I need to see the original text to figure how to actually translate to English.
Cant wait for AI to replace localizers
Quick, someone get the chopping block and the chainaxe ready. Bring popcorn too :P
Would have been better if it was just something like "Sweet and sour attitude", if not just keep "Tsundere" since it's particularly well known and adopted in most spheres that engage with Japanese media.
I swear AI translation can't come soon enough and put the activists out of business.
Either everyone in the world has a gender specific fragility to their egos. Or some individuals have fragile egos.
I looked up what tsundere means. It's not that hard to translate. You just need to use different phrases depending on the context of how it was used.
I'm not sure about the context of how it was used but I could easily translate it in many contexts. If it was something like "You're a tsundere." I would translate it as "You're giving off mixed signals." Several other phrases would work depending on the context of how it's used. And if I were to use two sentences, I could get far more descriptive.
Fire them and hire me. I have 0 experience, but apparently, I can do the job better. That took me seconds of thought to make something that roughly gets the point across, instead of weeks of meetings that result in the original text being ignored just to make up some crap that nobody likes.
Localizers this bad give a strong argument *for* MTL.
How TF do you get 'fragile male ego' from 'Tsundere?' Morgana should be saying something along the lines of "don't play coy with me." or "Why are you acting up?" if you must make it about his ego, why not just say 'fragile ego' and make it gender ambiguous? Was the original conversation gendered? This shit isn't as hard as they're making it out to be.
It's sounds like they never interact with normal people.
Coulda just left it at "fragile ego," which would have been a gross mistranslation anyway, but at least it wouldn't have been sexist.
I don't understand why this is so complicated for these people.
fragile ego? That's rich coming from a person who has to announce themselves to everyone as the "translator of the highest-rated game of all time"
Translation LoL from Guild Wars 2 for the GvG Mount
En: Warclaw
Es: Garrabélica
De: Kriegsklaue
Fr: ...... Razziafelis
In French MMO style Raids are just "raid" not "razzia", and "felis" is not the word you would use for a lion, panther, big cat.
Same with translating Onni-chan and Onne-san
Only because the Anglosphere is not used to accepting sibling honourifics.
I just have 1 question to that "localizer": would you translate a female tsundere (a trope far more common than a male tsundere) as "fragile female ego"?
No cause a male is called a tsundere because of their fragile male ego
While a female is only ever called a tsundere because fragile male egos are intimidated by a strong independent woman
BS logic but honestly wouldn't be surprised if they genuinely thought like that
Stop protecting them leave the handle
about the ramen thing , ramen isnt even a japanese word/dish , its always written in katakana , the kana they use for foreign words, so it would be even stupider to translate it lol.
Bro, the word in English for Tsundere is a leela, like the Futurama character, which name, is literally his character; thing that also happens in manga and anime Lol
How is Slimu-sama?
Oooh don't remember the last time when I was this early.
If you're having a hard time localizing a specific term or name, don't translate it. Leave it as it is, and add a note to further explain what it means, assuming it's a possibility. Pathfinder: Kingmaker and WotR did it pretty well with their dialogue boxes. Although I suspect that it's just a cheap excuse by the localizer.
Regardless, this is one of the reasons why I completely stopped consuming subtitled content. I remember back in 2018 when RDR2 came out. I was watching a let's play on RUclips and I noticed that whoever Rockstar hired for the job translated a dialogue that said, "You speak as if killing is something I care about," where the subtext is that Arthur is showing that he's ruthless, as "You speak as if I enjoyed killing.", as if Arthur was bothered by Thomas Downes' death at all. It is hilarious because Arthur, in that same scene, threatens to kill Archie Downes for staring at him.
Tsundere could easily be translated to someone who isn't honest with their feelings. It's not exactly rocket science and ego has fuck all to do with it. Most tsundere characters are the way they are because of being shy, not because of a massive ego or some other retarded shit.
You dont have to pretend to not care when you do. Took me 15 seconds. Where is my fucking paycheck.
so....if this is a male tsundere, would that mean a female tsundere is "fragile female ego"? Cause tsundere, like many emotional states, can be given to both male and female and if that is their translation of the male, then the female translation should be exactly the same, right?
This "translation" looks more like projection.
All the tsundere girls in anime and their fragile male ego's. 😅
Also honestly tsundere is such an abused term, it was supposed to just mean a character that's cold and distant at first until they get to know you and warm up into lovey mush.
Now it's been troped into nonsense bipolar characters to flip flop obnoxiously.
00:50
But is “they” plural in this case? Because it might not be. We are, after all, dealing with lunacy.