@@RezaQin I don't know, Despecialized has its moments but it's also really inconsistent. Showing the old design for the emperor in ETSB leads to confusion when Palpatine shows up in ROTJ.
@@xFlareLeon That's one small thing, doesn't make it "really inconsistent". The special editions make it more inconsistent if anything because they added young Anakin as force ghost but showed old Obi Wan.
sometimes even two writers working on one story can be too much. They need to be in really tight communication with each other, because sometimes all it takes is one off-kilter sentence to spoil a sequence.
The more writers, the less cohesive a story with no vision. 26 people all fighting for their ideas to get in the game is a recipe for disaster and mediocrity.
We are rapidly approaching the era where movies are just going to be written by either a single AI or a hyperpolygroup of communists. 🎩 🐍 no step on snek!🇺🇸🇭🇰
AI has more creativity than most humans and artists. 'Not uh they copy art!" yes just like humans do every time they make art? "Not uh that it's all original!" oh, so humans are not influenced by sight? everything is just "Unique" with no commonalities? Bullshit.
That is why movies feel like they were written by aliens and made by aliens for humans who they never even meet or seen off checklist of what humans like.
@@refugeehugsforfree4151 No it doesn't. Recent scripts written by "AI" proves that it can only imitate authors its been trained on (there's already a plague of "AI" written books on Amazon and most of them are at best meh), but that doesn't mean that even this cannot be useful or better than anything that Sweetbaby Inc and Co have written so far...
It is going to be much worse of that. AI creates by combining things it saw on the internet. But since there are more and more AI generated things on the internet, AI is going to add those to its database as well. Soon AI will be more inbred than Charles Habsburg.
Reminder that Borderlands 2 only had 2 veteran writers, and its villain, Handsome Jack, is one of the most talked-about villains in gaming. Meanwhile Borderlands 3 has 4 amateur writers, and you'd be hard-pressed to find any discussion about the game that DOESN'T lambast the story, and rightfully so.
Honestly giving new ones a chance isn't necessarily bad, everyone needs to start somewhere. There were even a few moments in BL3 that showed potential but it felt like they set up plot points that were scraped like the betrayal of the brother, don't remember his name rn, Tyrone?
The reason why 26 writers cannot make a good story is that a story idea has to be accepted by the majority of the team to be put in, it's doable at 3 or 5, but at 26 it means that the only ideas that will ever be greenlit are the lowest common denominator between 14 people. Also it's not even always the same 14 people, so it feels disjointed. And that without mentioning the politics and censorship.
There's also the problem of that many artists all each having their "favorite" character, meaning they will veto anything that harms the image of their favorite little side character. This is why so many shows feel like they don't even have a protagonist anymore, because you have a writer or two dedicated to each character.
A story with 14 writers has no vision. Vision is a singular idea which only exists at the level of the individual. No 2 are the same. A story is only capable of representing one vision -- at most. A story is one vision -- at best. A story can't even communicate anything if it isn't consistent and cohesive. The more people you allow to control a story, the less consistent and less cohesive.
Yeah, I just played Yakuza 8 recently and I LOVED the writing. I sat through the end credits because I waited for the credit scene and then as writers came.... 1 story developer, 1 script writer. About 4 dialogue writers probably for all the random NPC dialogue... that's it... and I LOVED the story. You can't write a story when you have 20+ people all wanna do their own thing, it's legit impossible. Don't forget too. Breaking Bad... 1 writer... the whole show... 1... that's how you have consistency and a fulfilled vision.
Great, now I have to play through nine Yakuza games. (They made an episode 0.) [EDIT GOG Games has a couple of Yakuza bundles on sale right now, 3/2024]
@@trublgrl Well in good news, Yakuza 0 is actually an EXCELLENT entrance to the Game franchise for new players. Sadly while Yakuza 1-5 has their charm, for sure... They clearly are games from another era and thus have pretty simple one note writing in many places. You can kind of tell they had yet to figure this out with earlier games. How to do it, the story of Yakuza 1 is kind of... meh.. So it's nice that people can start with 0 now that has WAY better writing and is very good. That being said... the whole reason I fell in love with the franchise in the first place was the hysterical humor of the side quests, and there are laugh out moments in all the games.
The more writers a work has, the less coherent it will be. But the biggest reason these big films have such large comitees is to force their ideals into whatever is left of the work made by that one writer who actually can write.
Yes and no. The real cost comes from their horrific leadership. It's become industry standard in Hollywood to get VFX artists and the entire acting crew to begin production, before they have even finalised the script. And even once they finalise it, it always gets rewritten over and over and over again. This is where the real cost inflation comes from. Sure the wages for 26 writers is expensive, but its nothing compared to production costs. Modern western elites are worse than you could imagine.
When you try to appeal to as many people as possible; the end result becomes bland. The Mr. Hankey South Park episode showed it perfectly: School was planning a Christmas musical and all of the parents were sitting together to make the plans. While planning, they kept finding more and more things that were "problematic" and the end result was an unrecognizable bland mess that didn't resemble what it was supposed to be.
Lol it's like the Bohemian Rhapsody meme. 1 writer for a certified classic. Vs All the Single Ladies (Beyonce) where 70% or the lyrics were just "All the single ladies"... repeat ad nauseum like 7 fucking writers 😆
The violence and suffering of Luke in Star Wars heightened the story. When Luke saw the charred remains of his adoptive parents, when he lost his hand, when he got butt-graped on Dagobah, these things were difficult to watch, but they made the story more compelling, it showed us the gravitas of the situation. In The Last Whatever It Is, they had Luke just fade away into dust, clean and painless. What a bunch of hot, feckless garbage.
Little analogy : WCW peaked when two guys were writing the shows : Kevin Sullivan and Eric Bischoff. Then it became Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera from WWF fame. But then it was Russo, Ferrera, Eric, Sullivan, Turner execs, Kevin Nash. Too many cooks, shows were all over the place and it lead to WCW loosing the Monday Night Wars. Similarely, WWE peaked when Patterson was the one creative mind. Or when it was Russo and Ferrera. Now there is an entire team and execs, and TV consultants, and shareholders, and focus groups. And it's struggling to get 3 millions when they used to have 7 under Russo and Ed, or 11 under Patterson.
They legit think we are stupid. They hand us slop where characters and plot take a backseat to the message,all stitched together by cringe to mediocre dialog and think they can insult and shame us into saying we like it. They treat us like children, and last I checked children tend to be pretty dumb and gullible due to lack of life experience.
No wonder manga has taken over the comicbook industry. You have too many clowns writing comics and then they get replaced by another team of clowns so there is no consistency anymore, just a never ending series of reboots.
I bought and completed all them games except Gotham knights and suicide squad so no, most gamers are not loyal to a franchise so much we will accept woke trash.
The quality of the writing appears to decrease the more writers are on the project. What in the world requires 2 dozen writers that couldn't also be done by at least 2?
The only way this could work is if you had one or two main writers and all the others just wrote side quests of something, even then, that's an excessive amount of writers.
7:23 What you mean? The graphics are still amazing. The MAP from the first one is too restricted, but they still have amazing graphics for today. Let's be honest, most of the graphics advancements we had since Arkham City/Origins serve more the developers E-PEEN than the players visual pleasure.
@@franzosisch5965 I notice that too. My guess is that before they made multiple passes. They could allow themselves to say that it wasn't good enough and try to improve until the game was gold. NOW, they can't redo things because it hurts their ego to have to fix stuff. So they try to predict everything beforehand, take longer to do it, and then can't change anything after delivering under the penalty of admitting they aren't "perfect people who can do anything at the first try".
The audience is captured. I think the main goal of modern executives is to keep the costs of movie making high enough to keep independents and small studios out. $300,000,000 to produce garbage-can juice? Come ohhhnnnnn.
There might be a captured hardcore audience, but I think the last marvel movie I watched was black panther. I got dragged to see that one, and the people taking me to cape movies haven't bothered since then. I didn't even have to complain. Same for games, we all got bored of our usual multiplayer games and now we just watch each other stream interesting looking singleplayer games on discord.
Its because the first few arkham games were written by actual writers, such as the guy who actually wrote the animated series so they needed way more people to replace the actual talented people.
I would argue Origins and Knight also had great stories, even without Dini. Gotham Knights while I don’t think it has an awful story, it did need more work and fleshing out. As for Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League…..well I don’t think I need to dissect that abomination.
The Mouse was never "small changes" with Star Wars, they went scorched Earth from the onset by throwing out the expanded universe lore before they established their corporate fanfic.
The graphics from the Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City still holds up to this day. The only sticking point for me is that they carry the legacy of Unreal 3 and Gear of Wars that saturated the gaming industry at the time: big buff guys and, similar-looking textures and muted color palette(thankfully they were not as brown as other Unreal 3 games).
Tbh in really big games I feel multiple writers are ok, iirc that’s how it always worked in RPGs. You just give every writer a different character and quest chain, and as a player you just engage with portion of content that vibes with your character. This requires a strong vision from director though as you still need somebody to pull it into a coherent vision. For example I believe Chris Avellone? was regarded as a good game writer, but unwilling to write romances so if you hire him you just hand him parts of your game that isn’t romantic, and hand the romanceable characters to someone who can pull the hearts’ strings. Still, as we say here in Poland, the tail can’t be the one wiggling a dog.
Arkham Asylums graphics were NOT limited tho, they still look good to this day, Sure they aren't unreal engine 5 quality but thats called having an art style, Knight however still trumps all arkham games with graphics and kill the franchise league
Tbh I'am glad to see that miss Dakota seems like a reasonable lady, not only beautiful. Imo it's very true what she said about artists. Art, such as movies and games, should be made by ppl with passion, vision and competence. REGARDLESS of their skin color, sex, sexual preferences etc. I feel like it really is just common sense and should be obvious. To see us where we are now, it's such a regression and a very, very bad sign for future of humanity. You really do want to be careful about who you are being inclusive to. You don't want to be including psychos and narcissists anywhere except mental treatment facilities and not as a staff members either.
The 2016 Suicide Squad movie suffered the addition of other writters than the main one, the director complained about that, and now he disapeared from hollywood's face.
i feel like it's better when devs write their own games with actual writers as just editors you know , just so it's quality remains high but the idea isn't altered.
Arkham Asylum jingle and those goddamn Scarecrow segments still live in my head rent free. I can literally hear that jingle in my mind whenever I remember that game. The good old times. Back then I had a GTS 250 and played games that are my favorite to this day Arkham Asylum, Deus Ex Human Revolution and Dishonored. Good times.
A similar criticism has been made about music, often comparing the more complex and poetic lyrics of older hits compared to some of the more simpler and straightforward modern ones.
Many many people not knowing how these contracts are written. You will likely find that the newest writers contracts don’t get paid to ghost write, they probably only get points and need to be listed in credits. There are usually dozens of support staff but they would have been silent in the past. But they got paid. Now, not so much. The producer credits are the same thing. Everyone wants a credit now because the money just isn’t worth it. Sadly a credit isn’t worth anything now. But I think they know that.
Umm, I'd disagree on the first draft part. Fewer writers are good, but redrafting is important. And getting feedback is important. You just don't want people splitting that creative control too much, especially when most of them are poor writers with conflicting intentions.
@@Keeki95 You'd be surprised. Very often the first draft is the best, later on muddying up the script. Not saying it'd be right away good, but usually best out of the bunch and trying to force improvements will just worsen it.
Yeah I've had the same take for a long time. Games and animation is trying so hard to "be like the movies!" where you have 20 writers on a council because the movie is going to cost a billion dollars and you need to avoid as much risk as possible. One bad apple wouldn't spoil the bunch. The problem is all of the apples are bad now, and best case scenario is the script comes out "average". Almost all of my favorite medias have been written by a single senior/lead writer with a small handful of assistants to do the tiny stuff that isn't plot-relevant. A room full of writers just simply cannot create a cohesive story that is interesting because they will all veto any actually good ideas, and contradict each other non-stop.
I can see multiple writters working for something like a elder scrolls game. You could have one for the main quest one for each guild and maybe a few for sude quests and books. As each is mostly self contained the writters would step on each others toes and each one of several different in game organizations having a slightly diffrent tone wouldnt be that out of place. Other than that its a terrible idea
It wouldn't have been so bad if the writers didn't promise that the Arkham knight was a new character that was going to suprise everyone when his identity was revealed, and specifically said it wasn't Jason Todd. Then you start playing and they keep bringing up Jason Todd, so you're immediately like 'hold on...something's fucky'
I think city and knight were one of the better ones, origins felt uninspired but cool visuals, asylum was only ruined by Titan Joker. But the main relationship between batman and joker was one of the best. And knight was a cool little conclusion, where Joker was locked up forever.
@@TheScience69also despite Joker being dead and Scarecrow bdleig the main villain whonis marketes to people, Joker is back as the main villain and all the other villains are part of the side missions
That's a good point about having writers for the main story and others for side content and environmental storytelling. But with Suicide Squad I don't think there is any meaningful story outside the main campaign? There is no excuse for this waste.
Dismemberments in Star Wars were always supposed to show how dangerous lightsabers actually are. If you're just getting slapped with them and sparks shoot out or something then it doesn't really convey how deadly the weapon is.
Madam Web watches like it was made by asexual aliens trying to make a movie for human males, with out ever actually meeting or interacting with any men, just studied them from a far.
Nah, they'd do a better job because they'd study us objectively without weird ideologies telling them to reject simple truths. They'd look at what men are actually responding well to.
There are simply too many people in entertainment. A couple generations of kids grew up wanting to be Spielberg/Lucas/Tarantino/etc, but guess what, few people can be Michael Jordan or Tom Brady, and few people can write competent scripts. The proliferation of streaming services artificially inflated the demand for product, and moronic executives hired shit-tier writers to fill the void. The entire industry needs to shrink by a factor of ten, if not more.
This us thing with WGA demands, different undustry same issue, they want large writing teams for ideological gatekeepung reasons imo. Plus allows hacks to hide amongst competent ppl
Nah. What people love from Rising isn't just that one system. That system alone couldn't support a full game. It would maybe support a niche game on the complexity level of clustertruck. The reason Rising had staying power was the music, the characters, and the batshit story. Borderlands 3 is widely agreed to have the best gunplay and movement of the series, hands down, but that wasn't enough to save it, because people _fucking hate_ that the good gameplay is drowning in shit story.
I feel like b rated movies or something similar will eventually get all the views, like if movie theaters took on different movies like how game stores take on indie titles, the b rated movies would be watched far more than the current slop that keeps coming out. But hollywood probably has a stranglehold on movie theatres to an extent and wouldn't allow others to get a foothold into their territory.
The "knowledge problem" at its finest. the way more and worse writers make the product worse is the same mechanism that causes government programs to suck at their job and big bloated corporations to eventually fail. that being that people are hired and exist purely for bureaucracy or the company is too big , so big that they fail to properly manage internal resources and communications. and because they have so much resources they dont appreciate efficiency or profit motives correctly. its likely people in these corporations genuinely dont know or see the problem. those that do see the problem must get past 10 different management layers to speak up. the only reason they have survived so far is that they own everygreen IPs . but if we changed the laws regarding IP rights, every single AAA studio would crash and burn in less then a year because they would loose their precious monopoly. the most obvious example is minecraft. the devs spoke up and said they genuinely care to improve and expand the game but mojang has so much internal bureaucracy that it takes a year for 2 new mobs or blocks to get added.
Even my normie AF, mother of three, bartender friend was talking about the lack of good movies in the last few years. When the quintessential normie doesn't want your slop, you are f*cked. Get Woke Go BROKE
I cant really think if any need for more than 5 writers. I mean, how many different things in a game need writing? Npc, heroes, villains, enviroment, backround. Heck, even that may be pushing it. Or of we go with genres, lets say horror, romance, action, slice of life, drama ( even this seems almost forced, but at least it seems reasonable)
I bet that if you show that image with the number of writers to a WB exec they will come to the conclusion that the two last games underperformed because they didn't have a prime number of writers
I disagree with the doomers in the comments. Have you been paying attention to the independent movie scene? Kung Fury, the SCP movies, Emesis Blue, and plenty more have came out to good reviews and a growing audience. Small teams, on small budgets, making better movies than what Hollywood is making. My dudes, movies are going to be like video games, where it is a bunch of bros, some beer, a camera, and a dream, making movies.
My mother and my grandmother that liked horror movies. House of Wax, House on Haunted Hill. Child's Play, and so on. But grandmother liked real things, like a serial killer, like Saw. Mom, liked supernatural, like Nightmare on Elm Street. I hate all those. I do not like Horror Movies. But I do like Gremlins and Evil dead, and Phantasm, short story horror like Creepshow. I also like watching slaughterhouse movies where they dismantle animals. Weird, right?
Not that this is what they did, but if you wanted to continue that trend, then you have then you could have a character writer, one who makes the overall plot and coordinates the writers, one who writes the environmental stuff as you said, one that does the fight choreography, if nsfw, then maybe one that handles that, a lore expert (especially for established franchise, but even for new/original ones) to keep everything straight and look for inconsistencies/plot holes, and various experts so, for instance, the people who know guns don't roll their eyes to hard at something, or who know combat, or who know hacking, etc. Actually, I'm surprised that isn't a job: writing consultants who are experts in a field. They'd both know how something works, but also have some experience on how to compromise between the writers vision/making it interesting with making it realistic, and feeling out how much of each the writer wants if they don't know/can't properly articulate it.
Vee I must make a point to say that the trope of the old OG actually good Arkham games is that yes, “press y to counter” but it doesn’t actually damage the enemies or count as knocking them out. If an enemy is on his own trying to fight you and you counter, instant knockout. Just beat Arkham Knight just right before any of this controversy has come to be. The fact I got Arkham knight for $5 for my friends ps4 and was just meant as a I gift, tell me why I kept bothering him to come over so we could 100% that game because we were having so much glitchless, functioning, agenda-less fun? We did it too except for par time on most time trials and we actually had fun every 1 percent of progress we made in the game (except for par time on the time trials cuz only Batman could drive the Batmobile that good). All i ask is to spread that the Arkham series does not run off of a simple press y to counter, yea you punch them so hard in the face when you counter, but you could just keep doing it and then you’ll be there forever. Assassins creed has that problem. Never got into the series but black flag was amazing. Still had press y to counter but now you go ARRRR and DABLOONS ON THE POOPDECK and WHAT DO YOU DO WITH A DRUNKEN SAILOR and that makes up for it SO much. Anyway, I watch your content 24/7, next $5 i get is going to u.
Looking for 20 people to collaborate on editing this comment. Edit: Looking for twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment. Edit: Seeking twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment. Edit: Seeking twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment.
Nonono, the personal perspective is inherently offensive. How can we be expected to produce safe slop like a good commitee if the illusion of an individual remains? Remove "I'm" and "I am" from all lines, including those representing previous versions.
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modern star wars isn't even worth pirating
Would highly recommend the Despecialized Edition.
@@RezaQin I don't know, Despecialized has its moments but it's also really inconsistent. Showing the old design for the emperor in ETSB leads to confusion when Palpatine shows up in ROTJ.
@@xFlareLeon That's one small thing, doesn't make it "really inconsistent". The special editions make it more inconsistent if anything because they added young Anakin as force ghost but showed old Obi Wan.
imo "too many cooks in the kitchen" describes it perfectly
less writers make the story feel tighter, like it has a clearer focus/direction
Definitely. Too many chefs spoil the broth, especially when they aren't chefs to begin with and their goal isn't to make a broth at all.
That requires you to have a human writer in the board room.
sometimes even two writers working on one story can be too much. They need to be in really tight communication with each other, because sometimes all it takes is one off-kilter sentence to spoil a sequence.
now i remembered that video of too many cooks
years ago when i heard witcher 3 have 5 writers i consider that too much, despite the sheer quantity of the game
The more writers, the less cohesive a story with no vision. 26 people all fighting for their ideas to get in the game is a recipe for disaster and mediocrity.
kojima did it the best, during mgs 2 development he made everyone come up with a new idea to add in to the game or else they can't leave the meeting
I'm curious how many of those were acting more as sensitivity readers and how much backstabbing and backbiting occurred.
@@MGrey-qb5xzThat's brilliant.
Especially when half of them are 'those' type of people. The ideas they're fighting to get in the game are poisonous.
Remember in force awakens when ray would say something and immediately do the opposite?
That smells like 30 writers to me, least.
They just need 27 writers, and it will be fine.
They were so close SMH
Nope only 2 or 7, the rest arw just activists or DEI checkboxes
@@ldmt1995 It was the WHOOOTE Supremacy I bet.
We are rapidly approaching the era where movies are just going to be written by either a single AI or a hyperpolygroup of communists.
🎩
🐍 no step on snek!🇺🇸🇭🇰
AI has more creativity than most humans and artists. 'Not uh they copy art!" yes just like humans do every time they make art? "Not uh that it's all original!" oh, so humans are not influenced by sight? everything is just "Unique" with no commonalities? Bullshit.
Hyperpolygroup of communist AIs.
That is why movies feel like they were written by aliens and made by aliens for humans who they never even meet or seen off checklist of what humans like.
@@refugeehugsforfree4151 No it doesn't. Recent scripts written by "AI" proves that it can only imitate authors its been trained on (there's already a plague of "AI" written books on Amazon and most of them are at best meh), but that doesn't mean that even this cannot be useful or better than anything that Sweetbaby Inc and Co have written so far...
It is going to be much worse of that. AI creates by combining things it saw on the internet. But since there are more and more AI generated things on the internet, AI is going to add those to its database as well. Soon AI will be more inbred than Charles Habsburg.
Reminder that Borderlands 2 only had 2 veteran writers, and its villain, Handsome Jack, is one of the most talked-about villains in gaming. Meanwhile Borderlands 3 has 4 amateur writers, and you'd be hard-pressed to find any discussion about the game that DOESN'T lambast the story, and rightfully so.
Honestly giving new ones a chance isn't necessarily bad, everyone needs to start somewhere. There were even a few moments in BL3 that showed potential but it felt like they set up plot points that were scraped like the betrayal of the brother, don't remember his name rn, Tyrone?
@@brotbrotsen1100 I'm all-up for giving the newbies something to work with and start from, but the main story of a mainline title?
@@Modeus. Yeah true, should have let them write a DLC storyline or something.
@@brotbrotsen1100you don’t help amateurs/newbies by throwing them into the big leagues, it’s like having kids baseball go against the MLB.
@@gamerguy6990 That sounds entertaining though lol want to see that with the NFL though
We used to know that design and art by committee was a bad thing.
But comrade, you cannot abuse herd psychology if there isn't a committee to brow beat the creative and critical thinkers into line.
@@musicninja98 oh, da comrade! I will submit myself for re-education immediately.
The reason why 26 writers cannot make a good story is that a story idea has to be accepted by the majority of the team to be put in, it's doable at 3 or 5, but at 26 it means that the only ideas that will ever be greenlit are the lowest common denominator between 14 people.
Also it's not even always the same 14 people, so it feels disjointed.
And that without mentioning the politics and censorship.
There's also the problem of that many artists all each having their "favorite" character, meaning they will veto anything that harms the image of their favorite little side character. This is why so many shows feel like they don't even have a protagonist anymore, because you have a writer or two dedicated to each character.
A story with 14 writers has no vision. Vision is a singular idea which only exists at the level of the individual. No 2 are the same. A story is only capable of representing one vision -- at most. A story is one vision -- at best.
A story can't even communicate anything if it isn't consistent and cohesive. The more people you allow to control a story, the less consistent and less cohesive.
26 writers for SS: KTJL?! Did they give writing credits to every Twitter or Reddit user too?
I imagine they'd use their account names over there real names. "Special thanks to @CommieFeetlover and u/Bigchungus68".
Probably. After seeing the demands the writer's guild for Hollywood made, I think they're using most projects as a handout rather then work.
Sweet Trash Inc
Yeah, I just played Yakuza 8 recently and I LOVED the writing.
I sat through the end credits because I waited for the credit scene and then as writers came.... 1 story developer, 1 script writer.
About 4 dialogue writers probably for all the random NPC dialogue... that's it... and I LOVED the story.
You can't write a story when you have 20+ people all wanna do their own thing, it's legit impossible.
Don't forget too. Breaking Bad... 1 writer... the whole show... 1... that's how you have consistency and a fulfilled vision.
Great, now I have to play through nine Yakuza games.
(They made an episode 0.)
[EDIT GOG Games has a couple of Yakuza bundles on sale right now, 3/2024]
breaking bad had multiple writters though no?
@@trublgrl Yakuza suffering from success.
@@trublgrl Well in good news, Yakuza 0 is actually an EXCELLENT entrance to the Game franchise for new players.
Sadly while Yakuza 1-5 has their charm, for sure... They clearly are games from another era and thus have pretty simple one note writing in many places. You can kind of tell they had yet to figure this out with earlier games. How to do it, the story of Yakuza 1 is kind of... meh..
So it's nice that people can start with 0 now that has WAY better writing and is very good.
That being said... the whole reason I fell in love with the franchise in the first place was the hysterical humor of the side quests, and there are laugh out moments in all the games.
@@trublgrldon't forget the spin offs lol
Ishin is excellent
The more writers a work has, the less coherent it will be. But the biggest reason these big films have such large comitees is to force their ideals into whatever is left of the work made by that one writer who actually can write.
"A dog with 2 masters dies of hunger"
That’s very very nice
This also explains the exploding COST in woke movies as well. There a shoved to the brim with insane woke writers who only spew “THA MESSAGE!!”.
That explains why Disney is easily spending over $250-$300 million on each movie.
Yes and no. The real cost comes from their horrific leadership. It's become industry standard in Hollywood to get VFX artists and the entire acting crew to begin production, before they have even finalised the script. And even once they finalise it, it always gets rewritten over and over and over again. This is where the real cost inflation comes from. Sure the wages for 26 writers is expensive, but its nothing compared to production costs.
Modern western elites are worse than you could imagine.
When you try to appeal to as many people as possible; the end result becomes bland.
The Mr. Hankey South Park episode showed it perfectly: School was planning a Christmas musical and all of the parents were sitting together to make the plans.
While planning, they kept finding more and more things that were "problematic" and the end result was an unrecognizable bland mess that didn't resemble what it was supposed to be.
Lol it's like the Bohemian Rhapsody meme. 1 writer for a certified classic. Vs All the Single Ladies (Beyonce) where 70% or the lyrics were just "All the single ladies"... repeat ad nauseum like 7 fucking writers 😆
Yet people will tell me that Beyonce is incredibly talented. Her biggest talent is her ability to market herself.
Interesting
How many comrades does it take to write a story? As many as are in the union.
The violence and suffering of Luke in Star Wars heightened the story. When Luke saw the charred remains of his adoptive parents, when he lost his hand, when he got butt-graped on Dagobah, these things were difficult to watch, but they made the story more compelling, it showed us the gravitas of the situation. In The Last Whatever It Is, they had Luke just fade away into dust, clean and painless. What a bunch of hot, feckless garbage.
I think I missed that scene in Dagobah...
@@aliasjones6381was that when Yoda said, "Horny I am, bend over you will."
@@aliasjones6381 I think he must've gotten one of his pr0ns mixed in on that VHS tape.
@@aliasjones6381I know it's been a while since I watched it, but I must have blocked this out of my mind.
Must have been one of those special editions.
"They like the Chainsaw Massacre from Texas"
That was a perfect, non-US way of saying that title.
Little analogy : WCW peaked when two guys were writing the shows : Kevin Sullivan and Eric Bischoff. Then it became Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera from WWF fame. But then it was Russo, Ferrera, Eric, Sullivan, Turner execs, Kevin Nash. Too many cooks, shows were all over the place and it lead to WCW loosing the Monday Night Wars.
Similarely, WWE peaked when Patterson was the one creative mind. Or when it was Russo and Ferrera. Now there is an entire team and execs, and TV consultants, and shareholders, and focus groups. And it's struggling to get 3 millions when they used to have 7 under Russo and Ed, or 11 under Patterson.
They legit think we are stupid. They hand us slop where characters and plot take a backseat to the message,all stitched together by cringe to mediocre dialog and think they can insult and shame us into saying we like it. They treat us like children, and last I checked children tend to be pretty dumb and gullible due to lack of life experience.
No wonder manga has taken over the comicbook industry. You have too many clowns writing comics and then they get replaced by another team of clowns so there is no consistency anymore, just a never ending series of reboots.
I bought and completed all them games except Gotham knights and suicide squad so no, most gamers are not loyal to a franchise so much we will accept woke trash.
The quality of the writing appears to decrease the more writers are on the project. What in the world requires 2 dozen writers that couldn't also be done by at least 2?
The only way this could work is if you had one or two main writers and all the others just wrote side quests of something, even then, that's an excessive amount of writers.
7:23 What you mean? The graphics are still amazing. The MAP from the first one is too restricted, but they still have amazing graphics for today. Let's be honest, most of the graphics advancements we had since Arkham City/Origins serve more the developers E-PEEN than the players visual pleasure.
Not really sure what he meant by that. They look better than any of the newer games, even Knight.
@@franzosisch5965 I notice that too. My guess is that before they made multiple passes. They could allow themselves to say that it wasn't good enough and try to improve until the game was gold.
NOW, they can't redo things because it hurts their ego to have to fix stuff. So they try to predict everything beforehand, take longer to do it, and then can't change anything after delivering under the penalty of admitting they aren't "perfect people who can do anything at the first try".
The audience is captured. I think the main goal of modern executives is to keep the costs of movie making high enough to keep independents and small studios out. $300,000,000 to produce garbage-can juice? Come ohhhnnnnn.
There might be a captured hardcore audience, but I think the last marvel movie I watched was black panther. I got dragged to see that one, and the people taking me to cape movies haven't bothered since then. I didn't even have to complain.
Same for games, we all got bored of our usual multiplayer games and now we just watch each other stream interesting looking singleplayer games on discord.
No wonder that by the time Sushi Squad came out most of the original talent of the Rocksteady studio had already left.
26 writers with 13 babies, one baby per writer 'Band in China' style.
Its because the first few arkham games were written by actual writers, such as the guy who actually wrote the animated series so they needed way more people to replace the actual talented people.
I would argue Origins and Knight also had great stories, even without Dini. Gotham Knights while I don’t think it has an awful story, it did need more work and fleshing out. As for Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League…..well I don’t think I need to dissect that abomination.
as they say "too many cooks spoil the broth"
We all thought gender studies degrees are worthless and that nobody would hire anyone like that.
Turns out, reality is worse.
Seems more like an issue on "too many cook's spoil the broff" or something like that.
Stories with too many writers tend to suffer from lack of vision
The Mouse was never "small changes" with Star Wars, they went scorched Earth from the onset by throwing out the expanded universe lore before they established their corporate fanfic.
If a show is for everyone it is for no one.
Graphics shouldn't have any consideration on how good the game is. Art style is what makes or breaks visuals.
So basically Sweet Baby Inc is ruining writing in more ways than one.
The lesson of New Coke was never learned.
The graphics from the Batman Arkham Asylum and Arkham City still holds up to this day. The only sticking point for me is that they carry the legacy of Unreal 3 and Gear of Wars that saturated the gaming industry at the time: big buff guys and, similar-looking textures and muted color palette(thankfully they were not as brown as other Unreal 3 games).
26 voices in the head.
"Do you hear the voices too?"
-Chaos Sorcerer
Tbh in really big games I feel multiple writers are ok, iirc that’s how it always worked in RPGs. You just give every writer a different character and quest chain, and as a player you just engage with portion of content that vibes with your character. This requires a strong vision from director though as you still need somebody to pull it into a coherent vision. For example I believe Chris Avellone? was regarded as a good game writer, but unwilling to write romances so if you hire him you just hand him parts of your game that isn’t romantic, and hand the romanceable characters to someone who can pull the hearts’ strings. Still, as we say here in Poland, the tail can’t be the one wiggling a dog.
Arkham Asylums graphics were NOT limited tho, they still look good to this day, Sure they aren't unreal engine 5 quality but thats called having an art style, Knight however still trumps all arkham games with graphics and kill the franchise league
Asylum was made with UE3... 😮
@@hassathunter2464 😲
This reminds me of what the dev SFO interviewed said about saints row 4 being pulled in all sorts of directions.
Bland? That’s being generous.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" all over again.
"26 writers" is like the modern rendition of "how many feminists does it take to fix a light bulb"
Tbh I'am glad to see that miss Dakota seems like a reasonable lady, not only beautiful. Imo it's very true what she said about artists. Art, such as movies and games, should be made by ppl with passion, vision and competence. REGARDLESS of their skin color, sex, sexual preferences etc. I feel like it really is just common sense and should be obvious. To see us where we are now, it's such a regression and a very, very bad sign for future of humanity. You really do want to be careful about who you are being inclusive to. You don't want to be including psychos and narcissists anywhere except mental treatment facilities and not as a staff members either.
26 Writers for one project?!? What the actual hell?!?!
The 2016 Suicide Squad movie suffered the addition of other writters than the main one, the director complained about that, and now he disapeared from hollywood's face.
i feel like it's better when devs write their own games with actual writers as just editors you know , just so it's quality remains high but the idea isn't altered.
Arkham Asylum jingle and those goddamn Scarecrow segments still live in my head rent free. I can literally hear that jingle in my mind whenever I remember that game.
The good old times. Back then I had a GTS 250 and played games that are my favorite to this day Arkham Asylum, Deus Ex Human Revolution and Dishonored. Good times.
It's like Meth.
The Blue one?
Nope. The one that's got Chilly in it.
A similar criticism has been made about music, often comparing the more complex and poetic lyrics of older hits compared to some of the more simpler and straightforward modern ones.
New "hits" are basically made with a stamp following the same recipe, if you just hum them without words you can't tell them apart.
Many many people not knowing how these contracts are written. You will likely find that the newest writers contracts don’t get paid to ghost write, they probably only get points and need to be listed in credits. There are usually dozens of support staff but they would have been silent in the past. But they got paid. Now, not so much.
The producer credits are the same thing. Everyone wants a credit now because the money just isn’t worth it.
Sadly a credit isn’t worth anything now. But I think they know that.
GET PARRIED GET PARRIED GET PARRIED-
It is a little known fact, that usually the best version of a script, is the first draft written by one person...
Except it never is. *cough* Rian Johnson
Umm, I'd disagree on the first draft part. Fewer writers are good, but redrafting is important. And getting feedback is important. You just don't want people splitting that creative control too much, especially when most of them are poor writers with conflicting intentions.
@@Keeki95 You'd be surprised. Very often the first draft is the best, later on muddying up the script. Not saying it'd be right away good, but usually best out of the bunch and trying to force improvements will just worsen it.
Literature engineering.
It's not that the art doesn't do well when it's made by committee, it's that the art doesn't do well when it's made by hack propagandists.
Yeah I've had the same take for a long time. Games and animation is trying so hard to "be like the movies!" where you have 20 writers on a council because the movie is going to cost a billion dollars and you need to avoid as much risk as possible. One bad apple wouldn't spoil the bunch. The problem is all of the apples are bad now, and best case scenario is the script comes out "average". Almost all of my favorite medias have been written by a single senior/lead writer with a small handful of assistants to do the tiny stuff that isn't plot-relevant. A room full of writers just simply cannot create a cohesive story that is interesting because they will all veto any actually good ideas, and contradict each other non-stop.
Remember during the weiters strike, the writers were fighting for this.
I can see multiple writters working for something like a elder scrolls game. You could have one for the main quest one for each guild and maybe a few for sude quests and books.
As each is mostly self contained the writters would step on each others toes and each one of several different in game organizations having a slightly diffrent tone wouldnt be that out of place.
Other than that its a terrible idea
I can't believe they have that many untalented writers
To be fair in the Arkham series, Arkham Knight was trash story-wise.
It wouldn't have been so bad if the writers didn't promise that the Arkham knight was a new character that was going to suprise everyone when his identity was revealed, and specifically said it wasn't Jason Todd. Then you start playing and they keep bringing up Jason Todd, so you're immediately like 'hold on...something's fucky'
In all arkham games the main story is mediocre, but the tiny stories are perfect. In my opinion.
All of the stories were forgettable but I agree that Arkham Knight was the absolute worst of the bunch. And I hated the stupid batmobile.
I think city and knight were one of the better ones, origins felt uninspired but cool visuals, asylum was only ruined by Titan Joker. But the main relationship between batman and joker was one of the best. And knight was a cool little conclusion, where Joker was locked up forever.
@@TheScience69also despite Joker being dead and Scarecrow bdleig the main villain whonis marketes to people, Joker is back as the main villain and all the other villains are part of the side missions
unless ur developing something like a huge mmo world with lots of text and quests... Even 27 writers there seems WAAAAY overboard.
That's a good point about having writers for the main story and others for side content and environmental storytelling. But with Suicide Squad I don't think there is any meaningful story outside the main campaign? There is no excuse for this waste.
Dismemberments in Star Wars were always supposed to show how dangerous lightsabers actually are. If you're just getting slapped with them and sparks shoot out or something then it doesn't really convey how deadly the weapon is.
Madam Web watches like it was made by asexual aliens trying to make a movie for human males, with out ever actually meeting or interacting with any men, just studied them from a far.
Nah, they'd do a better job because they'd study us objectively without weird ideologies telling them to reject simple truths. They'd look at what men are actually responding well to.
My mom absolutely hates the 'gore porn' that so much stuff has these days.
Funny thing, it was actually SONY that made Madame Web. Sony is CHOOSING to go down the wrong path. The path of Disney and Marvel.
Oh the number of writers. Very good thing to notice. It's the same sort of product by committee type thing
Good lord that is way too many filters. Thats how you get bland sludge.
I dabbled in screenwriting throughout the years and I have a consistent vision, unlike these over-bloated writer's rooms.
There are simply too many people in entertainment. A couple generations of kids grew up wanting to be Spielberg/Lucas/Tarantino/etc, but guess what, few people can be Michael Jordan or Tom Brady, and few people can write competent scripts. The proliferation of streaming services artificially inflated the demand for product, and moronic executives hired shit-tier writers to fill the void. The entire industry needs to shrink by a factor of ten, if not more.
This us thing with WGA demands, different undustry same issue, they want large writing teams for ideological gatekeepung reasons imo. Plus allows hacks to hide amongst competent ppl
Those are rookie numbers...
Too many cooks, too manyyy coooks 🎶🎵
- A game where you're a sith
- Metal Gear Rising-like slicing
Done. People would buy it even if plot is trash.
Nah. What people love from Rising isn't just that one system. That system alone couldn't support a full game. It would maybe support a niche game on the complexity level of clustertruck. The reason Rising had staying power was the music, the characters, and the batshit story.
Borderlands 3 is widely agreed to have the best gunplay and movement of the series, hands down, but that wasn't enough to save it, because people _fucking hate_ that the good gameplay is drowning in shit story.
@@Xahnel Ok, than do what Force Unleashed did but add more dismemberment and blade mode.
I feel like b rated movies or something similar will eventually get all the views, like if movie theaters took on different movies like how game stores take on indie titles, the b rated movies would be watched far more than the current slop that keeps coming out. But hollywood probably has a stranglehold on movie theatres to an extent and wouldn't allow others to get a foothold into their territory.
The "knowledge problem" at its finest. the way more and worse writers make the product worse is the same mechanism that causes government programs to suck at their job and big bloated corporations to eventually fail. that being that people are hired and exist purely for bureaucracy or the company is too big , so big that they fail to properly manage internal resources and communications. and because they have so much resources they dont appreciate efficiency or profit motives correctly. its likely people in these corporations genuinely dont know or see the problem. those that do see the problem must get past 10 different management layers to speak up.
the only reason they have survived so far is that they own everygreen IPs . but if we changed the laws regarding IP rights, every single AAA studio would crash and burn in less then a year because they would loose their precious monopoly.
the most obvious example is minecraft. the devs spoke up and said they genuinely care to improve and expand the game but mojang has so much internal bureaucracy that it takes a year for 2 new mobs or blocks to get added.
Arham Asylum looks bad and bad gameplay?
What are you talking about...
Films are art. Movies are commerce.
I actually do know what all men around the world want. We want Tokyo Drift 2
The bigger the game studio the more of a mess their game is likely to be.
Even my normie AF, mother of three, bartender friend was talking about the lack of good movies in the last few years.
When the quintessential normie doesn't want your slop, you are f*cked.
Get Woke Go BROKE
Why the F... needs any Entertainment Medium more than 2 Writers
oh i see... DEI Hiring
activism as a type of make-busy work for the activists
I cant really think if any need for more than 5 writers. I mean, how many different things in a game need writing? Npc, heroes, villains, enviroment, backround. Heck, even that may be pushing it. Or of we go with genres, lets say horror, romance, action, slice of life, drama ( even this seems almost forced, but at least it seems reasonable)
The more writers there are, the less consistent it becomes.
I bet that if you show that image with the number of writers to a WB exec they will come to the conclusion that the two last games underperformed because they didn't have a prime number of writers
I disagree with the doomers in the comments.
Have you been paying attention to the independent movie scene?
Kung Fury, the SCP movies, Emesis Blue, and plenty more have came out to good reviews and a growing audience. Small teams, on small budgets, making better movies than what Hollywood is making.
My dudes, movies are going to be like video games, where it is a bunch of bros, some beer, a camera, and a dream, making movies.
There were WRITERS for Suicide Squad?
Lampreys in human skin
Starfield had 1 writer. Didn't help.
To be fair that writer was Emil Pagliarulo
My mother and my grandmother that liked horror movies. House of Wax, House on Haunted Hill. Child's Play, and so on. But grandmother liked real things, like a serial killer, like Saw. Mom, liked supernatural, like Nightmare on Elm Street. I hate all those.
I do not like Horror Movies. But I do like Gremlins and Evil dead, and Phantasm, short story horror like Creepshow. I also like watching slaughterhouse movies where they dismantle animals. Weird, right?
Dude, they don't want the old fanbase. They told us repeatedly they hate the old fanbase for years.
Yup too bad the new one does not exist.
Californya-nya.
Not that this is what they did, but if you wanted to continue that trend, then you have then you could have a character writer, one who makes the overall plot and coordinates the writers, one who writes the environmental stuff as you said, one that does the fight choreography, if nsfw, then maybe one that handles that, a lore expert (especially for established franchise, but even for new/original ones) to keep everything straight and look for inconsistencies/plot holes, and various experts so, for instance, the people who know guns don't roll their eyes to hard at something, or who know combat, or who know hacking, etc.
Actually, I'm surprised that isn't a job: writing consultants who are experts in a field. They'd both know how something works, but also have some experience on how to compromise between the writers vision/making it interesting with making it realistic, and feeling out how much of each the writer wants if they don't know/can't properly articulate it.
Too many chefs ruin the meal
Vee I must make a point to say that the trope of the old OG actually good Arkham games is that yes, “press y to counter” but it doesn’t actually damage the enemies or count as knocking them out. If an enemy is on his own trying to fight you and you counter, instant knockout. Just beat Arkham Knight just right before any of this controversy has come to be. The fact I got Arkham knight for $5 for my friends ps4 and was just meant as a I gift, tell me why I kept bothering him to come over so we could 100% that game because we were having so much glitchless, functioning, agenda-less fun? We did it too except for par time on most time trials and we actually had fun every 1 percent of progress we made in the game (except for par time on the time trials cuz only Batman could drive the Batmobile that good). All i ask is to spread that the Arkham series does not run off of a simple press y to counter, yea you punch them so hard in the face when you counter, but you could just keep doing it and then you’ll be there forever. Assassins creed has that problem. Never got into the series but black flag was amazing. Still had press y to counter but now you go ARRRR and DABLOONS ON THE POOPDECK and WHAT DO YOU DO WITH A DRUNKEN SAILOR and that makes up for it SO much. Anyway, I watch your content 24/7, next $5 i get is going to u.
Looking for 20 people to collaborate on editing this comment.
Edit: Looking for twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment.
Edit: Seeking twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment.
Edit: Seeking twenty people to collaborate on editing this comment.
Change it to I am and spell out twenty.
Change 'looking for' into 'seeking'
Nonono, the personal perspective is inherently offensive. How can we be expected to produce safe slop like a good commitee if the illusion of an individual remains?
Remove "I'm" and "I am" from all lines, including those representing previous versions.
Less is more it seems.
Thumbnail No [REDACTED] way
THAT MANY WRITERS couldn't make a passable product!!