LDS Apostle Dale G. Renlund Answers the TOUGH Questions!
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video. The Original Meeting was publicly accessible, with no password required, hosted on both RUclips and Via Zoom. This makes it a public meeting and therefore commentary on what was said is in the public interest.
#LDS #Apostle #Mormon
As a South African, I enjoy your non-American POV and content, and I agree that members beckoning from the tree while never asking me why I left is a hopeless tactic. Thank you Britvengers for keeping us informed. ❤
Not only in USA, but in Utah. In Salt Lake City!!! Talk about the Mormon bubble. 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
I'm not at all frustrated with Nemo and Crew, but holy pile of Bullshitedo Batman! This is so freaking frustrating. They NEVER answer questions. It's like they are a corporation or something that will always skirt the issues and never risk a direct response. It's so annoying. And it's one of the main reasons I left the church. UGHHHHH!!!!
Right?!
So much for this scripture:
"Therefore, verily I say unto you, lift up your voices unto this people; speak the thoughts that I shall put into your hearts, and you shall not be confounded before men;"
Top Leaders in the church talk to their audience in very patronising manner. It’s like they are giving a primary lesson. Makes me cringe.
I grew up with Sister Ruth Renlund. When we were in high school and college she was a very strong advocate of women's rights to the point of "crossing the line" as far as the church was concerned. Her maiden name was Lybbert. We called her Lyberal. Her father was our high counsellor and was an attorney. Ruth became an attorney and I have a feeling she still is an advocate for women's rights. I believe she wants to say more but is constrained.
Does someone know why they only had one child - or adopt a child in need?
@@ksql4014 Anybody's
business??
She had ovarian cancer when their daughter was 16 months old. So she had a hysterectomy. Not sure why they chose not to adopt, it's expensive and competitive. Maybe they also just felt complete as a famoly. @ksql4014
I was Dr. Renlund’s personal assistant for two years. It seemed they were quite busy caring for their aging parents, along with very stressful careers. He was charged with bringing the Heart Failure program into Intermountain Healthcare. He did, essentially, adopt everyone’s sons and daughters for care and guidance, by his tireless and brilliant medical work.
He also cared for his employees. He gave me a job quickly after a research study lost funding. I came penniless, and unable to buy lunch or nearly dinner for of the first several months working there. I left two years later with an MBA degree in my hand. I always felt he was the largest factor in that.
The Church Handbook contains the fullness of the Mormon Gospel now. It's more authoritative than scripture.
That's hilarious 😂😂😂 because it's true
At 1:14 there is mention of sincerely praying and your prayers will be answered. I remember 12 years ago, thinking this very thing as my then ex-wife was in the hospital fighting for her life from a MRSA infection. I prayed with our kids together that she would be healed. Later that day I saw my 12 year old son in his room praying on his own. No laying on of hands healed her and 2 days later she was gone. I can testify prayers go unanswered about 99.9% of the time and I am haunted by that memory of my child asking God to heal his Mom....
You three are such a delight. Enjoying this broadcast. Thank you.
So are you Natalie!
@@jacoblewis2961 haha. Thanks.
WHY DO LDS REJECT ETERNAL GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE EVOLVING GODS OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
Nemo, you are doing the Lords work!
Which lord?? 🫣
"I don't know ... but I know God ..." really just sounds like a thought-stopping programmed response to cognitive dissonance
The church’s recent focus on garments screams CULT.
First of all, it shouts Freemasonry, with its embroidered Square and Compass.
Well, first of all it screams "Freemasonry".
screams ancient american tradition. Or all those jews and other religions who wear religious clothing are cults.
Not true!
@@nancywood3478 keep thinking celestial. You’ll be okay. That is what you’re told.
Thank you, Nemo, for your very hard work to pull this together. This was a massive undertaking. Thank you to Peter and Jane for joining and adding your wisdom and insight - always so much appreciated! Your channel and your voices are a lifesaver to help us keep tabs on the latest messaging from the Church, without having to swim through the emotionally abusive muck. We desperately need brave and bold humans like you to buffer this for us and give us the cliff notes version. Otherwise, mentally, and emotionally I cannot handle sit through it all. However, it is important to me and my family to stay abreast of what our devout parents and friends are being told. My parents returned from their 3rd full-time senior mission about a year ago. Our daughter decided to finally courageously come out to them [she has been out to us 9 years]. I went as moral support. Dad handled it textbook perfectly - immediate unconditional love, support, kindness, and concern. Asked questions. Wanted to use preferred name and pronouns correctly. It was incredible. Mom was very quiet. I knew she was trying very hard to hold back all the ingrained bigotry, religiosity, and judgemental comments that I was raised hearing. When we were preparing to go, she hugged my daughter, and once my daughter walked out the door, she finally broke her silence - her response was to ME, her child no longer attending church, by relating a message that had come directly from the “area Seventy over the mission … “Jesus stands at the tree, and He beckons, He beckons. But, it is up to us to come to Him.”
Hearing Renland parrot that very same thing tonight means this is obviously the new party line trickling down from the top. It’s likely Nelson himself. Stand by the tree. Don’t move. Stay in the boat. Don’t get out. Don’t listen, look, consider, discuss, or associate with anyone who isn’t a true believer! Fear and distrust even your own family if they aren’t “all in”.
To me, this is one of the most sick and twisted messages they’ve come up with yet! It flies in the face of everything I was taught about the gospel of Jesus Christ. I had a really visceral reaction at the time and was utterly shocked. I very firmly replied; “well, Mom, that is NOT the Jesus the scriptures teach! Jesus went out to the people. He walked with them. He visited them. He stayed with them. He had deep discussions with them. He cried and laughed with them. He “left the 99 and went to find the one”. He went through Samaria, and to leprosy colonies. He “dined with the sinners” - he hung out with ALL the people that the leaders of the church were telling everyone to SHUN, labeling them as “sinners”, “unclean”, and undesirable. The apostate. The untouchables. So, how do you reconcile that contradiction, Mom?! I don’t know about you, but I CHOOSE to stand by my daughter and my family is always going to come FIRST. I don’t believe any loving Heavenly Parent or Jesus would punish me for that. I really hope you will come to that same conclusion!”
She has never discussed it again. To her credit, she has bit her tongue and not said any of the cruel intolerant things to my daughter or me about LGBTQ+. However, she has built a wall between herself and our family. It breaks my heart how much distress I know she is feeling. She is 80 yrs old driving precariously to the temple 3 days a week and now staying 3 hours each time! My sister says she was counseled by her SP that SHE can be a “Savior on Mount Zion” not only to all her ancestors on the other side but to her own posterity. Apparently, she has the power to single-handedly "call down the powers of heaven" to save her children and grandchildren, "soften our hearts" and bring us all back to the church. She literally believes it is HER JOB TO SAVE US NOW! She must wear herself out sobbing, pleading, praying, fasting, and attending the temple to "prove" to the Lord that she is worthy of this blessing. How mental is this?!? Where is Jesus' atonement in this equation? It makes me sick with anger and sadness to see how the leaders of this church are traumatizing and harming my poor devout mom. It’s the Pharisees and Sadducees all over again.
WHY DO LDS REJECT ETERNAL GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE EVOLVING GODS OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
The serenity prayer for Mormons:
There is coffee for the things you can change
and wine for the things you cannot change.
Renlund should have checked out the Rosetta Stone in the British Museum. He would have found that the hieroglyphs actually take considerably more space than the Greek and demotic. This implies that you cannot use hieroglyphs to save space on the plates.
That's why they wrote it in REFORMED Egyptian, obviously. /s
The plates were written in reformed Egyptian, a sort of short hand, not hieroglyphics.
@@kimhaughton3771 The Idea that it is a short hand is already an interpretation. Please provide a source for this idea. A hieroglyphic short hand would basically be demotic. You don't need "Reformed Egyptian" when demotic already exists.
Being a great mother does require super powers. My wife wasn’t a traditional “stay at home mom”, she balanced that role along with being an equal “bread winner” and a lovely spouse. To me, she is a super hero!
Thank you Jane, Nemo, and Peter. The three of you counter responded to the subjects the Renlunds addressed awesomely. The Renlunds did not do awesome, but you guys did.
Thanks for all your hard work!
No worries!
I’m glad the mom said that she knows god loves her (gay) son. This is in direct contradiction to Dallin oaks and the hatred he has spewed from the pulpit for many years.
God loves us all. Oaks has never spewed hatred from the pulpit...ever.
@@kimhaughton3771I agree. I have never heard Dallin H. Oaks spew hatred from the pulpit. I also agree that God loves all His children, despite their poor choices. However, this doesn't mean He accepts or appeoves those choices.
I could just sit and listen to Jane. love her accent pluck and reason
If all we have to do is pray “like we are drowning” then WTF is the priesthood good for? They don’t even know they are contradicting the doctrine when they speak.
They know that they are contradictory. They don't care. Honesty isn't very important in the learning of the Jew.
Also there was a talk, I wish I could remember exactly which man/apostle it was, who said in conference that “other churches may be very sincere about their prayers and what they believe; BUT those churches do NOT have the authority of the OTC - LDS!!” He said, “They are playing church”!!
So if women don’t hold the priesthood, how are they not “just playing”. Women don’t have the “authority” to bless their children, no matter how sincere and “desperate” their prayers are.
I loved how Peter summed up the entire meeting: “Just pick and choose whatever you like. We’ve always all been “cafeteria Mormons” secretly. So God Loves everyone unconditionally. Don’t worry about the details, or that the apostles and the Prophets contradict each other.
And my take away: Just pray like you’re drowning, wear your superwoman apron/cape and TITHE !! 😅
Unfortunately, they’re very good speakers and if I didn’t know better, I’d be completely sold!! Everyone seems so kind, compassionate, open-minded and jolly!! Until you get to the “garments” part…. Things that make you go hmmmm 🤔🤨🤪
@@Boi33-mc4hs was it Brad Wilcox that insulted all other religions by say sing they were playing religion? Probably more than one person said it. Some are just more famous assholes than others.
Wonderful work as always
Cheers!
Some heroes don't wear capes, Sam Young, myself and many others wore flags during the #protectldschildren movement.
LOVELY AND PRECIOUS
FRIENDS, well done.
Places I just had to skip over as my throat is sore from alternately guffawing and vomiting, sometimes simultaneously.
You keep yourselves together with such enviable aplomb. 🌹
A special witness of Jesus Christ is testifying not of Christ but of the prophet.
Idk if it was noted anywhere, but Sister Renlund had a career as an attorney, so I thought it was interesting that she donned an apron to promote the traditional motherhood role. Also, great work, I always enjoy your guys' commentary and humor!
Also, the Renlunds only had one child. They were not traditional lds parents in any sense of the word. They were both career working people, which is great in my opinion. The part that is wrong is her trying to convince this room full of women to be traditional lds wives.
Yeah, I have known several leaders whose wives were professionals who (in church role) preached that women's proper role is in the home.
@@rodneyhuckaby8716So Dallin Oaks would label Ms. Renlund a “role model.” 😮
She was a suga mama! 😊
@@rodneyhuckaby8716To be fair, she had ovarian cancer after having her first child. She was unable to have more, presumably. If I remember correctly, she began law school to cope/distract her from her fears dealing with the cancer.
Wait, an apostle quoting a dead prophet who was quoting a dead prophet. Weren't we told not to do that?
Great point 😂
Great Commentary!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nemo, Dude. You ARE very good at this. Own it!
They retconned the veil. It was never meant to symbolize Jesus Christ because you had to speak through the veil to talk to Jesus.
The apron and cape is a tag line from a grocery store in Utah.
Really, fascinating! Which store?
Mormons are notorious in plagiarized ideas from their cultural context. 😄
32 minutes in and this is basically word for word the same as the multi stake RS meeting we had here in San Jose.
21:00 the sister putting on chef’s apron during a ward conference was not on my patriarchal bingo card, yet here we are.
I sure do like and enjoy Peter! He’s a very likable fellow
We do too! He's great!
I see my parents in these people. They're like clones of the leaders.
Happy to listen to you Peter till the cows come home. Great job Nemo keeping it tidy, both things are true xxx
The rate at which the leaders are changing the terms and meanings, around garments, is mind blowing. Adding holy priesthood and saying they symbolize the vail is so made up. What bullshit.
Mormonism, is a a “Worldly” organization. Garments should not have changed as stated by earlier leaders. Temple rituals should not of changed - even though copied from the Masons😊.
I’m in love with all of you Brit Avengers, your analysis, your chemistry. Jane appreciating the behind the scenes work of Nemo is well deserved. Kudos to Peter for getting Renlund to bite on his list of five questions. This is the first time I’ve never heard Renlund’s voice and was pleasantly surprised at how ear friendly his tone, pace, and smoothness is even though his theology is a lost cause. Dallin Oaks voice for comparison is fingernails on the blackboard 😂
Thanks!
No problem! thanks for the support!
Oh the self righteous men! They just make it up as they go along! For the love of pizza!!!It’s so sick and wrong!!!
And they got rid of visual aids at the podium. Sucking all the fun out of everything. My friend was giving a talk and had a visual and while using it, she was asked to take it down. She kept it up in defiance lol. It was a big part of her talk
Had to mute Renlund when he talked about the upper room... gag. There was no mystery except they gathered before the sustaining vote by the membership.
Made me think of one of Chad Daybells portals 😆😆
How is this type of meeting different from an Amway meeting
My firstborn child has a rare genetic condition and is profoundly disabled. When she was a little girl my extremely religious father told me that he felt my daughter could be healed if I had enough faith. This daughter was 23 years old when we left the church and she was never healed, so my faith was shown to be insufficient. While life is very hard, I am actually okay with my daughter’s disabilities. I have always felt that she has value as a person regardless of her disabilities and I did not need to her to be ‘healed’ aka ‘made normal’ to have worth. I think it is potentially very damaging to imply that someone is not healed because YOU lack faith. Many mothers, including me, feel guilty when they give birth to sick or disabled children because they feel that they must have done something wrong during the pregnancy to cause their child to be sick/disabled. This type of thinking is damaging to the mother’s mental health and potentially damaging to her relationship with her child. Women carry around enough guilt, they do not need extra guilt piled on their heads for not being faithful enough for their disabled children to be healed. (This type of thinking also lets God off the hook).
One of my friends is part of the extended family of sister renlund. The members of that family that I do know of (who are still active) are fairly nuanced and their type of Mormonism has the potential to change the culture and the teachings of the church for the better. Unfortunately, they still hold some negative beliefs so I don’t think too much change will actually happen because of it. So far, I have been disappointed, but we will have to wait and see if more comes out of the renlunds as far as reforms are concerned in the future. I don’t think they will, but there is a chance.
You are so incredible awesome.
If I had a wish free, I would love to see such videos just in parts. Of course I can stop it myself and later on I can watch again, but cutting such long videos in parts had a lot of advantages. I don't have to cut the videos my own, choosing eventually not to watch the rest or even forget about it. So people watch till the end and are not forced to get in trouble by either not watching to the end or getting in trouble with everyday life. Watching till the end helps with the algorithm of RUclips. More people have more interest and fun watching because it's not that long at once. You guys, which work I really do appreciate, can focus on a topic a bit longer if needed or could add some additional information to that part.
Since English is not my native language, I hope you get my thought.
He was my bishop 30 years ago. He looks like a corpse!
I’ve often wondered if the stress is killing him, it’s quite concerning
He’s obviously anemic.
Sister renlund is so patronizing.
The Soviets were more open and democratic with their leader succession.
Er it is not and never was meant to be a democracy!
True, but that's also not a point in the church's favor, exactly.
@@mr_ekshun the Church is not here to court popularity from the world.
It's a criticism.@@mr_ekshun
@@darrinhawkins8087 Then why the farce of voting?
As usual, the house always wins! (It’s hard to even listen to these non-answers from the highest authorities of tscc)
Tentacles sounds like the opposite of what he's trying to communicate to me.
Renlund's answer about mothers and children's outcome is certainly better than Spencer Kimball's "No other success can compensate for failure in the home"!!
NEMO... belated congratulations on your Eurovision win!
You looked so different in that costume and all that make up.
Let's also not forget that Nemo is still a member, so the LDS Church has actually won the ESC. 🎉 But why Switzerland? Shouldn't that be Steven Pynakker?
@@charlesmendeley9823 I don't know. Perhaps they are re-dedicating the Swiss Temple ( one of the oldest outside America)
Part of King Charles 111 crowning was hidden from view. When he was screened off. This was apparently the holiest part of the coronation.
I am surprised at the low turnout for an apostle speaking. The pews seem comfortably filled but not crowded. I remember when meetings with big shots required a convention size room.
I often debate that a problem with Mormonism is that they think they have a knowledge-feeling super power. Why would I debate with someone who is just tapped into the source of truth? My friends look at me like I'm crazy, and laugh, "I don't think I have a super power, bro." Thank you Sister Renlund for strengthening my rhetoric.
Isn't thinking that you are always right the sure sign of narcism
@@joanpearl7184 Seems to me. It's my fundamental problem with most Abrahamic religions. This narcissism is baked in.
Found it reeeeally hard to focus on this one with all the interrupting and talking over. Let the moderator lead! It's more powerful than getting your entire thought in.
Yes I was also really struggling to listen with all the talking over each other. I know there is a delay between them but it's as if Peter cannot move on unless he finishes his thought. I was skipping through a lot of what he said.
Omgosh the garments topic...
They might as well have said:
Your concerns are trivial, you can wait
(styles and fabrics)😅
I will always know the Magna Carta is 1215 because of Better Call Saul. 🤣
I have a comment for Jane : The useage of the garment is such that we agree to wear it whenever suitable for the activity that we are embarking on. Its my opinion that if women are getting infections etc from wearing the garment, then they shouldnt wear them as they are not suitable.
If they are not good for womens health, then that woman can rightly stop wearing them until breast feeding is over etc etc .
This to me is blatently obvious. I dont understand why anyone would suffer through such things if they think the garments are causing them.
I encourage my wife to not wear them to bed, since they are afterall not conducive to enjoyable night time activities.
Make of it what you will, but the advice on wearing them has always to my knowlege been " wherever possible"
Just sad to see everyone unsatisfied with the way things are carried out in the Church! Certainly we are not one and that’s what our main goal of our savior was- that we be one as he and his father is one! Maybe he can see that come to pass on another planet but sadly not here and now! But would like to ask ! If we women don’t put on the apron who will? I think we really know deep down that neither the husband or the child is going to do it and then there is the fact that so many of us women are so picky that we don’t allow or want someone else to do it because it won’t be done RIGHT! As women we seem to want it both ways! Tired of being the apron wearers but too ( can’t even come up with the right word)---. To relinquish it! We are all less than we can be! How about we give everyone that right and quite with the fault finding in all the details of life!!
Kind of wondering how that primary voice worked as an attorney? Fit and fabric? That’s gaslighting 101, women are asking because of personal health reasons
Back to magic or superpower clothing 😮
Whaat?!!! No need to bring the oil ... intense prayer is what will be heard? Wow!!
Yep, that's it apparently.
I love your hair, Jane!!!!
Ah you're so nice to me! ❤
Your hot Sarah!❤
Yes! Its soo good, Jane! 🎉
Trying to make their “process” of MEN “choosing” a prophet of God, a spiritual experience. They all felt so good about THEIR “decision”? What a mess.
Has anyone ever heard of “ keys of making spirit children”?? I have never heard of this spoken of !
Are they just making this us now ?
I had a similar thought, I wonder if it's been mentioned before?
And people wonder how Chad Daybell became and his patriarchy came about.
How long before deseret sells a Wonder Woman apron??
Thanks guys
Ugh! So many church leader contradictions 🤪
Catholic traditions plenty in mormon theology..also the sins of the parents are upon their children... Handicapped children because parent sinned..but the cult is keeping the flock following the pied pipers lullaby e voices.... Argggg. When I moved to SLC the same.lullabye voices were geared in zcmi... Lull them to sleep..I always wondered who was the voice coach for the mormon xhurch
Garment discussion is a great segue to why is rite masonic. What is masonic ritual doing in the Mormonism. It puts into question the who garment discussion.
Early Mormons believed Freemasonry dates back to King Solomon's temple or even Adam. Joseph Smith did not only restore Early Christianity (which he ad no temple) but also the Masonic version of the Jerusalem Temple, including handshakes and aprons.
@@charlesmendeley9823 so true
After choosing a new Profit, do those 15 elite Apostles put on a sumptuous banquet that they invite some rich members and some rich none member elites to after their annointing the "new profit", like the 15 put on at the conclusion of every General Conference? And where does that elite none member and elite members banquet take place after every General Conference? Reminds one of the 1800's Profit Snow's birthday party in the temple, where he received a birthday present of 100 deceased none member women being married\sealed to him. :.
They said they gave him 100 deceased non member women to be sealed to him?! WTF?!
@user-rd3cl7lg2f for a gay guy you're actually pretty stupid.
Interesting that they answer the “five things” question by saying what the members should do (same or different), but not on what the church or leaders should do differently.
The wife is not in the room when they call the man. She is brought in after, to be asked if she will sustain her husband as ....
It’s so gross
Not true. The wife is in the room. Been through multiple callings multiple leadership and my wife has been in the room every time.
@@incognito137 I have experienced for 47 yrs callings by Apostles given to dh. He was called, he accepted, then I was called into the room to sustain his new calling. 3 non-UT areas. And have further been involved preparing other couples for such processes. Your experience sounds nice, happy for your wife to be fully included.
I love that you covered this however it's very hard to hear when you interrupt and talk over people. Not sure if there needs to be better coordination/planning beforehand or just learn to not interrupt. I am a recovering interrupter... Had a talking to from a boss who pointed it out. I've been working on fixing it
I find these modern day imagery stories, paralleling a kitchen apron to superhero women, weak and unconvincing. These are people who supposedly know the secrets of God and the afterlife. If this kind of delivery is all you have…I’m severely unconvinced and unimpressed. Unfortunately I feel her audience is 60 year olds who drink from the LDS rhetoric or those who follow blindly.
Elder Boom didn't actually make any promises about desperate prayers being answered. He specifically says, "Boy, that prayer's gonna be heard." So, cool, somebody heard it. That is nothing.
"I wish you all could have been there." The point is, we are not allowed to be there. We are uninvited. If of a particular anatomical construction, we are DISinvited. The LDS hierarchy is an exclusive club, all men, appointed nearly always thru juxtaposition to one or more of the existing male appointees. Our donations pay their upkeep, yet we are utterly excluded from giving input or participating in decisions that affect us down to our individual, intimate lives and choices. I believe in intuitive knowledge. The spiritual affirmation felt by some or many of the men present in that room that day perhaps shortcircuited any future doubts or division within the hierarchy. Perhaps, too, Pres. Nelson was the best of the present to lead the church thru the Covid pandemic. This does not mean that Mormon hierarchical system is to be thought flawless, immutable, and even in some respects corrupted.
So when I was being SAed by a man in my ward, and praying for it to stop. That wasn’t a high enough level of prayer for God to intervene? Such BS!
25:00 I understand the good intended messege. I think where the harm comes in that makes us not feel great about it's delivery is where it's coming from. If a child or a peer were to say these things, they would be descriptive. But be ause she is presented as a role model to ALL women in the church, it becomes prescriptive. This wife of a church authority is tacitly prescribing the apron to her audiance by describing it as their role. I havent watch the whole thing obviously, and to me, I would be pleased if later in the talk she makes concession for women who choose other capes from hers. But I'm also not a woman and am not the one who she should make those concessions for.
So, the LDS church = Jesus Christ? when Renlund compared people leaving the church to the apostles leaving Jesus when He was in Gethsemane? First, they DIDN’T leave Him! They fell asleep. And second, the church does not equal Jesus Christ. What a disgustingly twisted and manipulative answer.
About wearing your bra over or under the garment: When I went through in 2022 I was told I could choose and I'm in Utah.
Imagine JS telling his followers that he can't answer their questions.
If I had to assign "steeple height doctrine" to a church, I would go for Catholicism.
I thought it was Christ that came down to ordain his one and only prophet on earth. Bummed it was only the 12. Public event, all the better.
the problem active mormons have is they choose to be ants following ants because they trust the front ant knows what he is doing and can be the bridge to the everlasting life. trusting the profits buys me a better seat in the eternal adoration of god/jesus/profits
Like ants doin the death spiral
It is very frustrating that they consistently talk around the answers.
She an attorney, but wearing an apron...so what! They are promoting kitchen women. If they were promoting lawyers, she would be in an office setting.
A spirit definitely entered that room, just not the Holy Spirit.
1:07:12 if Linda Sheppard is the leader, why is her husband (Craig) also sat on the stand? Interesting
Great point!
The Renlunds are the Lord and Lady of Thought-stopping Clichés.
Did he really call us careless and disobedient children? Rude.
Well.... 🤔💁♀️
So insulting.... Just apron wearing women if we don't worship the Mormon God 😡
Why in the world would anyone ever say out loud to a disembodied voice “here am I”? I would probably yell out “WTF”!!!
Control=satan.
That was his plan
Apostles needs psychadelics to see same visions as JS
Priesthood and blessings. There is no priesthood without s second comforter experience. And as for the Melchezidec priesthood, it does not come from any man by the laying on of hands except the Man of Holiness, and I don't mean RMN. Except for Baptism, and the sacrament (if you have a descendant of Aaron). Anyone claiming priesthood right now except the three Nephites and John, is a liar. Sad but true. Read d&c 101. What is the tower? Read section 124. The TOWER was the Nauvoo Temple. Jesus Christ, by his own words, rejected the church with its dead in 1844 when the "saints" were forced out on what some call an exodus, but it was more like God saying "get the hell out." in my humble opinion. He said If...Then. and "if" happened, as did "Then".
The BoM is the truth, and it warns you about the church repeatedly.
43:30 is an apostle speaking ill of the lord’s anointed?
The Whitney-Faust teaching is the golden ticket to the Celestial Kingdom !
#makeittaller #makeitatrillion
Compare the demeanor and spirit of your panel versus Elder Rendlund. Surely seekers of truth can see the difference.
Correct Nemo and friends are much more interesting and know what they are talking about!
The panel shows Christlike joy and comraderie. Renlund seems to be dead inside.
The MCW podcast.