Why Is Lumine Not A Descender? [Genshin With Aster] (v4.6)
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Nuh uh
Lumine is the descender.... Aether is the Abyss brat 😜
I like to think that Lumines fate got intertwined with Teyvat because her will is tied to restoring "the homeland" which is part of Teyvat and leading the Abyss Order which is also of Teyvat in a sense.
Meanwhile Aether only wants to be reunited with his sister and return to the time where both were travelling the stars separate from Teyvat, which doesn't tie his will to something of this world but to his own wish to be with his Sister.
I like this idea but I think they came from the Crimson Moon dynasty not Theyvat in particular. So might even be orphans it's not impossible
Indeed, but that makes the Traveler's journey kind of... dangerous. At the moment, despite everything, the only thing they truly want to to reunity with their sibling. But what if they journey through Teyvat for so long that they become attached to this world?
My strongest theory at the moment is:
- Khaenri'ah used a summoning ritual to bring someone from beyond Teyvat to get a Descender
- The Abyss Sibling is summoned, while the Traveler goes after them of their own accord
- The Abyss Sibling becomes connected with Teyvat upon arrival, which explains why their records begin in Khaenri'ah
- The Traveler arrives shortly behind but for some reason remains asleep, perhaps due to the effort of the journey.
With this in mind, in my opinion there are two possible reasons why Abyss Sibling did not become a Descender:
1 - The ritual caused their destiny to be linked to Teyvat
2 - They were brought by force while the Traveler came of his own free will
Your second point could probably be somewhat supported by the fact that in the first cut scene, the Sustainer subdues the abyss sibling first, clearly taking more of an interest in them over the Traveller
They came to teyvat together. Whatever drew in one drew in the second one as well. It’s possible that Khaenriah didn’t intend to summon 2, and Lumine choosing to respond to the summoning is what bound her to the world. But they did come together. They didn’t arrive separately like your theory posits.
The traveler’s awakening just happened 500 years after being trapped by the sustainer. Whereas Lumine was seemingly let go immediately after being captured.
they were both summoned
@@Zeke1460 they only met and fought with the sustainer after the abyss sibling woke up the normal sibling because of what was happening in khaenriah.
I feel that Arlecchino's interperetation of death might come into play. if sheding memories kills the present version of someone, then would sheding one's power be as well? What if Lumine was a decender but sheds away that will and became someone that could be written into Irmmunsul?
That’s a good point.
She battle pass cutscene does say she “forgot her noble origin” and now believes she belongs to the kingdom of darkness.
So it’s possible Khaenriah partially wiped her memories. Which would be a “death” according to Arlecchino’s interpretation. And wiping memories also changes someone’s personality and will.
The Fatui's classification and numbering system could be faulty. Like there were more descenders including the Abyss sibling, but by at the time of the Fatui records only four could be verified as Descenders.
Considering pearo knows lumine it's highly unlikely
Descenders are not exactly things outside from Teyvat, as there are many, even this Narwhale. Pierro is the smartest guy out there, with knowledge that even Nahida does not have, so Ill trust him
Given the way the story is progressing, I'm also inclined to believe Pierro's findings are true. But then again, there are a lot of suspicious individuals in Genshin. We have the Heavenly Principles, the four shades, the Second Who Came, the Sinner, Surtalogi, Nibelung, Alice, Nicole, Paimon, the Perinheri talking about children beyond the ocean (stars) traversing the hearth and being reborn. Then there are people outright erasing themselves from existence. Two more nations, we are clearing missing some key information.
My guess is a lack of will
Doubt it’s that simple since she literally had the will to create the loom of fate to take down this current world
Traveller to to sibling: you lack hatred
I had the same thought but I feel like she does
enough to want her brother to finish his journey and for being the princess of kaenriah, cause that's quite the title to receive and have the other abbysal beings serving her?
(I hope that made some sense I'm kinda sleep deprived rn😅)
@@aishathunaisa9714I don’t think OP means a lack of any will at all, rather a will that’s powerful enough to rival the world itself, as we know that’s a requirement to be considered a descender.
Lack of will to live? Same 😊👍
I think something we need to remember all Descenders are Outlanders but not all Outlanders are Descenders
Exactly, like the Sapling from Albedo's Story Quest is not a Descender... 😂
Hell that Sapling still brings in an interesting concept that any form of Outlander can exist in this world just fine, however (and this is just a guess, the prerequisites could be entirely different) if "it" doesn't have a strong enough Will or a Will at all, then when it tries to bring outside/new information into this world (in the Sapling's case Bloom into a plant not of this world and normally could not Bloom here) it in some way automatically gets erased or teleported away or ejected from the system which is something we've never seen since nor heard of it happening to any sentient beings as of yet... THEN we have Outlanders with such overwhelmingly strong Wills that it can rival the world's Will and do with outside information as they please (which is how the Dragon Sovereign was able to return with Forbidden Knowledge, with this being whole other conversation that the being itself can still be classed as a Outlander even if they originally come from this world), these being the Descenders.
One thing I've always wondered is if we ourselves are not recorded within Irminsul, did we ever really do anything? It's one thing for us to not have our memories altered by it, but what about the people? How do their memories of us work? Does history within the leylines have chunks missing where we took part in major events? Or are we writing ourselves into it by doing all these things?
remember the broken cup on the floor or something like that, where paimon has no memory of why or how it was broken?
or scarashorty's change before and after getting his memory back?
or how the fatui agent in Monstardt talks about how the Sixth seat with in the harbinger has been empty for houndred of years?
so yes, it has some level of "self healing" abilities to fill in the gap with other information, but it seems to be only for major events, if it's insignificant like what caused a cup to break, it would just be "well i don't remember".
@@askaliu2943 So essentially if we don't "exist" in Teyvat's history, how do our feats go? Do they get "fixed" so that some random people were the ones who did what we did?
@@sinfulmourning2780 so far from what we could see, the event would be altered to make sense with out the missing piece of data, for example, everything that the Greater Lord Rukkhadevata has ever done, was done by Lesser Lord Kusanali, and she is now the great lord who has "lost most of power" and became the lesser lord, in this case there was a convenient replacement, so Irminsul replaced it with that.
But if we look at Scaramouch, because there is nothing to replace his existence, his seat in fatui is just "empty for long time", and the events that involve him in Inazuma has his presence completely removed.
so it's a fairly smart AI, if we could call it that.
@@sinfulmourning2780 which leads to one strange and unanswered question... IF descenders are in fact not recorded by the Irminsul, how was any event involving them, or even the existence of them, being recorded and pass down = .=? like, how does anyone even know how many descenders there has ever been to Teyvat? is someone secretly keeping a tab? or? because we know for sure now, anything that is not recorded by the Irminsul, DID NOT HAPPEN as far as the Teyvatians is concerned. 🙄
@@askaliu2943because they still exist: celestia, the traveller , the truth about the gnosis(the 3rd descender). You don't need to see the record if the proof is infront of you.
And like how nahida did to the cat story for scaramouche's past, there are books and stories in teyvat that still hold those info in some other way. Irminsul can't directly delete information as that will cause a paradox(like how rukkhadevata needed nahida to remove her), it can only change the way it is percieve.
The traveller is basically a living proof and reminder as they are outside of irminsul's control, and thats the reason nahida even remembered that she made a story for a purpose.
This doesn't discount your theory at all, but to me in the Dainslif trailer I've always thought that the "she" he says doesn't refer to lumine. I have two reasons for this, one in game reason and one out of game reason. My in-game reason was really shown with the Caribert quest in that Lumine and Aether are interchangeable (possibly even the same person at some point tho thats a super conspiracy theory.) I think them being interchangeable also ties into the Cyclical nature of tevats story and how many many things seem to be on a loop.
my second reason is out-of-game, Rendering cutscences (for YT) and making splash art (and god forbid animating it) takes time and resources and at the start of the game launch I think they chose to only feature one character to try to cut down on costs where they could. (I think you can also see this in HSR since Stelle and Callus are used more interchangeably. they have more time and resources.) I also think that having one true cannon sibling dynamic just doesn't seem like Hoyo's style since it would alienate around half the players who choose lumine as their traveler.
buuuuuuuut thats just my 2 cents.
If the Heimarmine is the cycle of cause-and-effect; and the cause of “the Heavens answered the Summoning” and the effect is the Abyssal Twin arrived they were already tied to the Heimarmine to begin with. My current hypothesis is that because they were traveling together, the Abyss Twin was summoned, and it was an accident that Traveler came along too. There are no records in Irminsul of Traveler because nothing summoned him through the Firmament.
I think so too what if traveler is just a by product of her summoning because thay are twin
8:46 I really like idea what Aether woke up only after Lumine finished journey
*lumine mains confusion noises*
MiHoYo has confirmed that the canon main character is either Lumine or Aether.
This is just Aster's point of view since she chooses Aether.
Another reason the Sustainer may have not wanted to kill the siblings is to avoid the "dead god residue" from affecting Teyvat. As Descenders (or close to it) they would probably leave a powerful miasma/tartarigami behind if they were killed. And/or, killing them may have released their spirit to the Abyss, enabling it to be summoned back and placed into a new body, like the way Gold did with creatures like Durin and Elynas.
I don’t think Lumine was EVER a descender. Because I’m pretty sure she willingly responded to Khaenriah’s summons.
The only 2 criteria for descenders so far are
1: Be from outside Teyvat
2: Have a will that rivals a world’s.
If Lumine didn’t have a will that rivals a world, then she was never a descender. Just an outside influence, same as the astral Narwhal.
The Fatui do say we are the 4th descender they have on file. If Lumine was a descender we would be the 5th. Just the fact that her status was later changed wouldn’t mean she wasn’t a descender when she came into the world. The Fatui would still have her on the list if this were the case.
It’s definitely possible they’re lying and she IS on the list, just obscured or crossed out. After all it was Dottore who gave us that info.
But if the info is correct I don’t think she was a descender.
Nahida can see "honesty" of a person - that's how she made him to destroy his clones, so his info should be reliable. Unless Pierro lied to Dottore so he doesn't know the truth but that sounds stupid
@@olgabutorina4156However, lumine came into this world before the fatui were even made so maybe they didnt even put her on the list cuz well, they knew she could do much
then why put the first 3 and the traveller in the list? that doesn't make sense.@@thatminer7174
I use Lumine for traveller I like to think Aether is the abyss twin 😭
I play as Traveler Lumine as well. MiHoYo has confirmed that the canon main character is either Lumine or Aether.
That's valid, it's just that Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence the title.
It’s definitely aether as traveler sorry
Me too lol
Hoyoverse says there isn't a canon twin, which is ironic since they only use Aether, but I wish even then people wer more neutral and using Abyss Twin and neutral pronouns other than 'Lumine' and she/her :')
@@Salvageskate1 sorry but hoyo said otherwise. Whatever twin is chosen by the player is the canon traveler. They are interchangeable.
What if its because that lumine built Khanriah (also a theory) she attached herself to this world and is therefore considered part of teyvat? Or the twins were from teyvat originally but because the traveler woke up later, it was enough time for his ID to time out. (very cracked theory btw.)
I think if this were the case the traveler would be affected by manipulations of Irminsul
Until proven wrong, I am going to maintain my theory that the sibling we have met in game is a fake created to manipulate the Traveler as a potential weapon against Celestia and the real one is either dead, somewhere beyond our reach or never existed in the first place. That's why they are tied to Irminsul, because they are from the world it recalls.
Genshin won't go that deep.
@@kaialsh4321 That's the opposite of deep. That's cliché and boring. Antagonistic characters having their own motivations is simply a better story than "oh it's not really them." Like how bored would you be by that answer. Turns out the Abyss Sibling never betrayed us, and the fake doesn't care about us because they're not real. That's a bad story.
@@bookswithike3256 it is bad.
She got caught in a Samsara reset, her data belongs to irminsul now. She's already seen the end of the journey.
The main problem with this theory is that I can't see Hoyo 'ruining' the immersiveness of the game if you're playing as Lumine as the traveller with all the stories talking about a 'she' when in this canon it's actually 'he', Aether
My guess is that they're a clone, a creation like Albedo(homunculi) or a damn Ley Line disorder phantom
Did you do the Narzissenkreus world quest?
Yeah I swear this quest confirms it all, though not *why* just how. Simply they lost their Will to rival The World.
...Still am running around with my headcanon of Lumine being the third descender and the main reason why she "was not" at least temporarily was bcs she was dead since back during the archon war, then Khanri'ans resurrected her but cannot restore her power as descendent bcs her power were sealed away in the gnoses, thus irminsul confused her as being from this world that "just suddenly appeared in Khanri'ah". Her journey with Dain was actually to regain her power as a descender but somehow only by the end of the journey did the Heavenly Principle realize what Khanri'ah had done and the resurrection of the descender who can potentially overthrow the heaven was actually the last straw that causes the Heavenly Principle to curse all of Khanri'ah and leading up to the event of cataclysm. At the end of the journey, the reason why her record in the irminsul became hazy may be bcs she did regain part of her power back somehow and the irminsul just stop recording bcs she kinda regain her descender's status tho incomplete after that. The main reason why the Tsaritsa is collecting gnoses was actually bcs the fatui was actually cooperating with abyss order to fight against Celestia and they also know that they need to get Lumine back her power in order for them to even stand that chance.
Fully aware that it's just a dodgy headcanon just loosely based on the fact that the third descender is dead, irminsul was said to only record those that originate from this world but we don't know if descender died then got resurrect esp without their original power, will they be considered as technically "being reborn into this world" or not, resurrection will play as major plot point somehow in the Natlan AQ according to the Teyvat Trailer, and a lot of things around Lumine not being descender just doesn't make sense) at best and I'm more than ready to be wronged by Natlan tho (since I believe, whether this is true or not, it'll all be revealed in Natlan AQ bcs my headcanon revolves mostly on the theory of descender's resurrection and I believe we'll learn a lot of things about resurrection in Natlan, so if there's nothing being said about that, then my headcanon is most likely nothing but just my own imagination and will throw it right out...but for now, will just run with this fantasy until then...lol
What if she's possessed by someone from teyvat or maybe even Khaenriah? We know that she's not khaenriahn at all since she doesn't have the eyes, but that guy from the caribert archon quest called her "princess of khaenriah", it's highly likely khaenriah is part of teyvat or atleast another part of it that was separated, maybe during her journey her memory got tangled within the irminsul, or it's possible she's possessed by khaenriahs princess? I know it sounds silly but it could explain why her memory is in the irminsul, there's other explanations but It's confusing why she's called princess of khaenriah, it can explain why she's hostile towards dain, since he's the twilight sword and failed to protect the people of khaenriah, khaenriahs princess and lumine being two different people but similar in some ways which is why khaenriahs princess chose her to use as a vessel to avenge her people
I guess it's because she didn't lose her powers and the difference between what each twin will is, simply her will doesn't defie what teyvat want but aether does want something that teyvat doesn't want.
I could make a dirty joke, but I won’t. Instead my theory is Lumine tied herself to Khanria and therefore the world. Aether is not tied to the world and can thus rival it.
I think Lumine used to be a Descender, but then upon witnessing the truth of the world, she just lost the will to do what's needed and lost her descender status which maybe corrupted her on it's own or maybe someone did it once she became vulnerable.
My entire reason for this is because this is kind of what happens to the protagonist of Legend of Saha. She arrives at the end of her journey, realises gods betrayed humanity and finds the way to destroy them. The way - kill everyone. Being a nice protagonist she generally either refuses to do it or fails to and gods mock her and reset the cycle sending her to the beginning of her journey (mt. sumeru if i recall?).
So what if Lumine was put in front of similar problem. Maybe she realised she has to kill everyone, maybe that everyone included her brother and she just said no? With her will to act broken she'd lose descender status, which is what protected her against Forbidden knowledge, thus she'd instantly become corrupted.
What if she was reborn instead of waking up like the original sibling died but Her memories and power was used to built khaenriah and her new self thats why she was linked to teyvat
what i don't understand about irminsul is, how come everyone still remembers aether?
scaramouche erasing himself makes the irminsul alters everyone's memories in teyvat.
but aether is not in the data, shouldn't everyone forget about aether?
Think of it in reverse. Why would the people in Teyvat forget us? We don't have any records in Irminsul that can be deleted and make everyone forget.
@@xentplays4348 the fact that everyone we know still remembers us after the scaramouche overwrite means irminsul remember traveler. don't you get it?
my question is, how can irminsul remember traveler if we're supposed to not exist.
You're confused. Everyone we know still remembers us doesn't mean Irminsul remembers us or records us too.
It's clearly stated we are out of Irminsul's reach. Everything we do with everyone exists in the current Samsara, the 4th to be exact, in which Irminsul hasn't recorded yet because it's not done yet. Events that happened in the earlier Samsara's can be manipulated but the current Samsara's file isn't complete yet that's why everyone remembers us. Just like that one scene where Alhaitham tricked the Akasha by entering a fabricated information during Nilou's dance. The Irminsul is yet to record us or our dealings with Teyvat but that doesn't mean that what we did didn't happen or we didn't exist.
I thought it was just because Lumine isn't going to change anything. Because Descender is someone who can Protect, Destroy, Sustain or (Something i can't remember). An Outlander is what i thought Lumine was, someone who comes from another world who can live among Teyvat but not change it.
we know that the gnosis are made from the remains of the third descender, so what if lumine is the third descender and the one we see is fake one from the abyss and maybe she doesn't remember her brother but maybe she see some memories of them together
it might be a good reason for the Irminsul to record her and make her belong to teyvat because if teyvat is in a loop and something happen to lumine in one of the loops might make her part of this world?
This could actually be a pretty viable theory HOWEVER, the timelines do not line up. The archon war was nearly 2000 years ago prior to the current events of the game and as we know, the twins arrived in Teyvat around 500 years ago. Your theory would suggest that Lumine somehow arrived in Teyvat 2000 years before the game to then have her remains turned into the Gnosi'.
Like I said though, this would still be a pretty solid theory if it wasn't for the major timeline difference
@@saturn_lynx5910 i don't think time is an issue in genshin since istaroth exists and she is capable of manipulating timelines (e.g. the sacred sakura in inazuma). not like i believe the sibling is dead, but it's not entirely impossible
@@noctism you do have a compelling point, plus we could also use Dottore as example seeing as he has/had several variants of himself and it could be a similar situation with the twin
I think Lumine (the Sibling) regained her power as a Descender at around the time when Irminsul loses track of her. Her summoning may have diminished her power or her will, but she got better. And she got the abyssal powers, and possibly control over the Abyss. Fatui underestimate her, because they rely on outdated information from the time when Lumine lived in Kaenri'ah.
When the Traveler collects all the elements, he will have control over the light realm. And so, together, they would be able to put an end to the conflict between the abyss and the light realm. It will, of course, require us to obtain a lot of knowledge and discover a lot of hidden truths. But the result might be much better than Tsaritsa's plan to "burn away the old world".
at the end of the fight with sussy, the sibling gets trapped immeadietly, while traveler hols out for a few seconds longer. why?
has the sibling already lost their decender status at this point somehow or were they never a decender to begin with?
99% of possibililties that could make them lose it would have to have happened after this fight.
So i choose "never been a decender at all"
also, whats the first thing that happens right after you choose which sibling you play with? its sussy looking at them. at the decender. they notice this and lets go of their sword in reflex. sibling does not.
the siblings were never equal and one of them simply isnt good enough to be a decender
I came up with my own theory a couple weeks ago, so I'll leave a copy of it here.
"It seems really obvious in hindsight, but it didn't really occur to me until now that the twins don't both have to possess "Will." One would think they should because players can choose either Aether or Lumine as their MC, but I think there's a deeper meaning behind it when they don't.
I think that it's because the Will they possess isn't theirs, it's the player's. This isn't your MC's story, it's yours. You journeyed to Teyvat by installing the game. You choose how you progress through the game. And at the end, I believe players will be met with a final choice between two or more possible endings.
This is why the Abyss Twin isn't a Descender, but you are. Whether you're playing as Aether or Lumine, their twin's story has already happened. They are merely an NPC whose destiny is already decided by fate."
i like this muchly
‘decided by destiny!’ -mona burst English
Wait... lumine isn't a decender?? Bro, Nahida lied to me 😢
I’m wondering about being a twin is part of a theory. Genshin has a lot of themes with twins being the same person like Raiden Ei always being a shadow of her sister, Nahida being the reborn of the previous archon, Lynette playing as Lyney when doing their magic shows. Could the traveler be the same person but divided into two?
what if she is and she just screwed with irminsul (I haven't watched the video yet)
I was so confused by the title because i have Lumine MC, but then i remembered that most people has Aether. Lmao i thought that Nahida was wrong based on the title 😂
I believe most people actually have Lumine as the traveler, iirc from a poll few years ago. She's also fairly more popular with the community, it's just HYV likes to push Aether for some reason, even after confirming both are canon.
- A Lumine player who stopped to care....
@@seuzin I think it's because MiHoyo probably thought would be easier to follow the story's flow to have one promotional traveler and one Abyss twin.
@@seuzinlmao no, they're not pushing anything, the trailer shows aether, why change it after that? that would only confuse people
What if, the Abyss Sibling *WAS* the Third Descender and perished to give birth to the Gnoses? And the "Abyss Sibling" we know now is a marionette copy of the "original Abyss Sibling" using memories of them to recreate which is why they are in Irminsul.
This can't be. If she's just a copy, she wouldn't care for Aether and advice him to go and see the truth of this world. She's willing to wait for Aether to finish his journey until he decides which side to fight for. She could just persuade him to join the abyss and it will be very hard for us to refuse because we're twins but she didn't.
Here's my sister's theory: The abyss descender we see is actually not the real one. Instead it's a situation similar to how Venti took on the appearance of his dead friend.
I think that it's because they rewrote the irminsul to be a teyvat local
Can you talk about how much of a fraud the traveler is from not using 5/7 elements in a fight to getting carried by venti, nahida and neuvillette?
i haven't got that far in the game yet, still stuck at the beginning of sumeru. still, from what i've heard of gnoses and descenders, it reminds me of zhongli's rite of descension and the chess set that ningguang was making in her hangout event, and the other part of her hangout event where she like zhongli before her, tried to pretend to be a normie. as such, descenders are probably nothing important at all.
She's a humonculus made by Khaenriah to emulate a descender.
Why aether is not a descender? This seems right.
What if Lumine(or Aether) isn't actually Lumine (or Aether)?
Like this twin is a faker or imitation of the REAL Lumine(or Aether)? That way they can't actually be labeled as a Descender.
Perhaps they exist and yields Lumine's (or Aether's) memories and existence, but the real them has been compromised. The Irminsul having records of Lumine (or Aether) in the first place shouldn't be possible as she's (or he's) a Descender like Aether(or Lumine). So depending on when the Irminsol's records of our twin starts, that identifies when the faker was created in Teyvat. As to why the faker's records gets discontinued, I have no idea, it may be their connection to the Heimarmene🤔
It's just a theory.
or u could've used "Abyss Twin" and "Traveller".
@@AiNotions1 shoulda coulda woulda 🤷🏿♂️
but.. but lumine in my game is decendent lol
They lack conviction.
I've been wondering. Since we are not a descender and according to Nahida our fate cannot be recorded by Irminsul how does it record the consequences of the traveler's journey? By it's logic how did all of the people's fates that we changed were changed, like by some mysterious invisible force?
We can come up with multiple reasons for why The Sustainer didn't just outright kill the twins, here are my points to consider:
- A descender is not just an alien life form. Perinheri is an alien like the twins but they are not a descender. The terms are mutually inclusive. A descender is a Jungian concept at its core (breaking this down further would make this post mega-long).
- We know the Gnosis are the remains of a descender, powerful tools for storing and boosting power, so we can infer that any future descenders might also have some similar value to Celestia
- We know the Usurper-Lord/Celestia currently slumbers or is injured, not at full capacity, etc.
- The twins were summoned to Teyvat by Khaenrians, given in their namecard and further substantiated by Perinheri
So with these points, we can assume that the Twins were spared, on the Sustainer's side, as part of some plan to maybe revitalise the currently injured/slumbering Usurper-King or some other reason. At the very least, they have given us that we can cover a baseline for them being spared
I think it’s cuz the cyclical nature of teyvat where irminsul refreshes its database and at the time we weren’t in teyvat so we weren’t written in .
My question is, how does Nahida know that the traveler is the "fourth" descender? i am just gonna think out loud for a bit, some random thoughts...
first and for most... the whole "abyss twin is NOT a descender and we are the fourth" idea was mainly due to Nahida's words about their record with in (or not?) the Irminsul, at least, that is what solidified the idea, i mean, if the GOD OF WISDOM and the ONLY archon that has full access to the content of Irminsul says so, she can't be lying right? RIGHT??????
What if, just what if, Nahida is lying? or at least, like Zhongli, She never told us the truth and/or hidden important information from us??
i mean if the Irminsul has the entire record of Teyvat history, the moment Nahida gained full control of it she would have access to all data that pre-dates even the archon war, it might even pre-date from the first war between the dragons and "the primordial one" (that cannot be certain, because we don't know how long Irminsul has existed in Teyvat, but my guess is that is has always been there, pre-dates the first war), if so, Nahida would know literally everything about what is actually going on in Teyvat, at least, to a extent (of what is recorded).
"But she has no reason to look into that information!" you might say... my fellow travelers... she is the GOD OF WISDOM, it is her duty, her "raison d'etre", TO KNOW SHIT 😂
also the fact that she says the traveler is the fourth descender, means she know who the first 3 are, or at least, is aware of their existence via records with in the Irminsul or other means, obviously, she need to count SOMETHING to work out the orders right? but wait a minute... if the descenders are NOT recorded with in Irminsul... what is she counting from = .=????
since the end of sumeru's quest, i just have this feeling that Irminsul (and most likely Nahida too) cannot be trusted, i don't fully know why, just a gut feeling. Also, in a way Irminsul dictates a person's fate, or even personality, i think we can see it's effect with scarashorty during the quest, his change before and after he get's the memory back, it is that powerful even archon's and dragon sovereigns are with in it system, i just find it extremely weird that such a strong system, for whatever reason, would not have any record what so ever of descenders? what about outlanders? well they were recorded, otherwise we wouldn't have known about the Khaenri'ah's orphanage and their collection of "children from the sea" 🤨, so how are the two different? outlander and descender are both outsiders from outside of teyvat, why is one type recorded and one type is not = .=? it makes no sense...
what about Skirk? Surtalogi?? or even that All-Devouring Narwhal??? are they recorded?
we don't know...┑(￣Д ￣)┍
I have a theory that I firmly believe as the reason why she isn't a decender(anymore)
She arrived first in Khaenriah (Scaramouche told us who was told by Pierro - Khaenriah's Royal Mage at the time.
Having lived with the people in the Kingdom must have made her feel some kind of kinship, or a sense of belonging. She was their Princess, Everyone must have adored her and loved her.
Everyone is forgetting the cause of Cataclysm. It was said that Gold (Rhinedottr) made a terrible mistake during one of her major experiments that opened a portal in which the abyssal monsters and corruption caused by forbidden knowledge came pouring out into the whole world wrecking havoc in its path.
It was so terrible the Heavenly Principles have to take action or else all of Teyvat would be destroyed, summoning all the Archons to try to defeat the calamity.
Seeing Khaenriah's destruction before her very eyes must've caused a shock and disbelief, all the people she knew and the place she once considered home was destroyed.
She's now driven with vengeance, and her will isn't for herself anymore. She's hell bent on reviving Khaenriah. And seeing the destructive power of the abyss, she thinks that she can somehow fight Celestia.
All of these events happened 500 years ago, The third Samsara, In which Irminsul already recorded including her.
I'm thinking that Irminsul's way of recording history isn't real time. It's per Samsara. You might argue that in Scaramouche's/Rukha's case where they deleted themselves and the effect was instant, I can argue that those history they deleted was in the 3rd Samsara, not the current one.
If a descender has to have a will that can rival the world, perhaps she lost that will somehow. Not her will to fight and survive, or even help, but a different will entirely. We don't know exactly what "will" a descender has to have. Freedom? Travel? Self? What will? Perhaps once she learned the truth of Teyvat she became sympathetic, empathetic to their situation, and she wanted to help change that. Maybe she gained this knowledge and that's what caused her to stay, not because she knows, but because she wants to do something about it.
If she's similar to Aether in the start, then her goal was probably finding her sibling, but that goal has obviously changed. But we also don't know the differences between the siblings when it comes to their life in Teyvat before the game begins, only that the sibling was in Khaenri'ah. Aether doesn't remember much about Teyvat, but hasn't it been hinted that the siblings lived there for a bit previously before they tried to leave, and that's when the Sustainer stopped them?
There's also some questions I'm wondering about. Who is the main "enemy" of this game? People want to say PO, but if that was the case why did the Sustainer stop the siblings from leaving and not getting involved? What's the risk of leaving once you arrive? Unless it wasn't the siblings together that they tried to stop, but the one that is the abyss twin. If you think about it, whichever one you choose, the other one is the first one captured, thus that twin is always the abyss twin, the one who is NOT a descender.
So...did the descender status fall as soon as the siblings arrived? Or after the journey?
(Random ramblings)
Here’s my theory…
The Third Descender is dead, per the lore. And the Gnoses are pieces of the Third Descender’s body. I think the sibling was the Third Descender, but the Sustainer split the sibling’s individual elemental powers from her to make the Gnoses, which were then made part of the world’s laws and order as the fonts of power for the various archons. What was left of the sibling after being split like that, created an immortal body capable of housing immense power, used as a sort of battery to house and channel the Abyss, which is nearly confirmed to be like the Sea of Quanta from HI3. The sibling ceased to be a descender when pieces of them became parts of the world order, the Gnoses were given to the elemental archons, the abyss was tapped into as a power source from beyond Teyvat, and the player character was discarded as unnecessary. What this theory doesn’t answer is the motivations of most of those involved. The dragons’ powers were stolen to grant the archons their thrones, but we know the hydro gnosis wasn’t destroyed when the hydro power was restored to the hydro dragon, only the seat of archon was removed. This theory lines up with the lore as I’ve seen it so far.
But what if Abyss Sibling is not a Descender cause they did a ritual like in new book from 4.5? Don't remember exactly the name, but it's about orphans house, and that child should crowl in chimney and proclaim that they not alive and they see a crimson moon and etc? Traveller was asleep at first and this is why they did not do that ritual but abyss sibling did
Oooo new theory
I'm day dreaming or I actually read somewhere in Fontaine world quest that
Not every outsider is a descender in tevyat
Only who can change tevyat fate are only knows as a descender
Maybe she is just dead and what we see is like a puppet with her memories/soul much like raiden shogun. This would make her part of Teyvat.
shouldn't you put in the title "abyss twin"?
Because Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence referring Lumine on this video as the 'Abyss Twin'. She states this on the beginning of the video.
What if the real Lumine is dead and this one is a clone created by Aether and tried to escape teyvat with her but they got caught and he lost some of his memory
yeah mc is a decender and the sibling is a normal outlander
Man I can’t wait until we know the whole plot .. it’s a never ending mind fuck lol
She is tho
Plz next time put the ad at the end of at least mid video. I finish my food before the ad is over 🤣
Oh you mean the abyss sibling not actually lumine ok
What if she was offered to be a part of their world after their journey? And she just accepted.
Because you picked the wrong sibling :O
The real reason: the sibling we see is fake and the real sibling is missing
She must of picked 'Player 2' /hj
Lumine player who got so confused at first
A theory I once had was that the Abyss sibling is a clone of our sibling, and that the original is either dead or MIA.
I don’t think it’s actually the case, cause we know for a fact that Descenders are still recorded as such even after dying, so it wouldn’t explain why they’re no longer labeled as one.
But from a narrative view, it would be a really heartbreaking twist. Imagine the Traveler spends years to finally reunite with their sibling, only to find out that it wasn’t actually them the whole time
I think connection to abbys may be something to do with it
what is that song around 6:45 i cannot for the life of me figure out where i heard it from??? it’s from an anime right? i’m going crazyyyyyyyy
Aether wasnt recorded by the tree. Lumine was and I think Celestia had a hand in it. They were both sent to different times as well. Lumine was sent back 500 years earlier before Aether was I think. So she saw the fall of khaenria and the archon war as it happened 500 years in the past. Aether was woken up in the present 500 years later. idk how she isnt a descender if they were both summoned to save teyvat from destruction....
Maybe the summoning ritual was different? Its possible the king of khaenria and pierro summoned lumine one way and when things didnt go as planned and she couldnt do shit to save khaenria, shit hit the fan and she left...spent the next 500 years looking for a way to save the world and she joined the abyss to find that way and got aether summoned in a way that would never have recorded him??
When we picked aether at the beginning of the game he likely gets summoned from deep into the abyss and thrown into monstadt. We see scenes of the sister but we never get into contact with her for long....what is she doing behind the scenes and why???? so many questions...
no, sibling was not sent 500 years into the past, they stayed at present and the traveler was sent 500 years into the future
your voice is cute like hutao D:
Why is Aether not a Descender.
Paimon's the descender. She will have to fight the Traveler. Because the Traveler is Paimon's whole world. 🌎
Honestly aether ain’t either if you chose Lumine as your character in genshin
Technically, yes. Because Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence referring Lumine on this video as the 'Abyss Twin'. She states this on the beginning of the video.
Theory:
Lumine made a deal with Surtalogi. She promised something (likely her own soul and/or souls of the abyss dwellers) to obtain the power necessary to break the loom of fate, disrupt the Samsara cycle, and overthrow Celestia.
Pronouns stuffs in Gnostic Chorus might implied an older theory about the sister fall into darkness being Sustainer of Heavenly Principles prior to fallen into Celestia's clutches while the brother being Dainsleif, all while the twin Travellers being foreigner (which ironically the Travellers fits way more with Allogenes from a separate, yet interlinked actual Gnostic text tied to Hymn of The Pearl which inspires Genshin Impact's Gnostic Chorus about the two siblings)
Considering that Genshin is really emphasizing their main overarching inspirations from Bardaisan & "Bardaisanism" Gnostic group (which might being a Persianate adoption/branch of more general Sethianism)
Um, she actually is 🤓 (me when I play as Lumine)
: son for how long I’ve been playing this game?
; over 500 years dad
: how’s the journey son? Did it finally end?
; no dad, it’s just the beginning
: o-oh 💀
Considering some of Ashikai's videos, I think the theory of twins getting summoned to search for Genesis pearl, however metaphorical it may be, has a lot of credence. Albeit, the Traveler may be approaching the task form another end: collecting and strengthening samples of all the elemental powers into himself to grow another Genesis pearl, containing a higher power to rule over the elements.
I came expecting mad Lumine players in the comments, I'm pleasantly surprised.
There's a few, lmao.
I used to play this other game that's similar to combat quest. My fav weapon was the boomerang plus strike through power up XD
I was always under the impression that the Descenders are connected to the Heavens and to Thrones. Those who are believed to be the First three Descenders are connected to the heavens, the Primordial One and the Second Who Came are both called 'Thrones of the Heavens' and the third Descender had his remains used to make the gnosis which connects someone to Celestia.
Though I do believe that being a 'Throne of the Heavens' is different from being a Descender, a Descender as we can see can do great feats like using the Seven elements and more but a Throne of the Heavens seems to be able to manipulate the world at a whole.
We see this in the Third Descender whose power doesn't seem to be that important when compared to the others, the Third only has one important point, having their remains used and even then it was the Primordial One who created the 7 thrones and altered the world.
Both the First and the Second Throne were able to manipulate the world and change it to how they wanted, their war led to great destruction against each other, hell, Enkanomiya well into the Sea thanks to their war.
The traveler will become a Throne of the Heavens when he ascends, he will become more than his sibling...
To put it simply, all Thrones of the Heavens are Descenders but not all Descenders are Thrones of the Heavens, Descenders can decide their own fates but Thrones decide the fate of the World.
And that is why the sister will never be a Descender, she has connected herself to the Abyss, the opposite of the Heavens but in the end, she might not even be in control of her own fate or the Abyss.
It should be noted that Lumine is called the 'Abyss Princess' by Chlothar, a princess is second to a king, she is like the Unknown God (who I believe is not the Heavenly Principles but his lieutenant), not a Descender but the second in command.
So in the end, Aether can become the Throne of the Heavens and control Teyvat while Lumine is the opposite of whoever will be the Traveler's sustainer.
In the end, I see conflict not between the siblings and the heavens, but the Heavens and the abyss, I see the story ending with the two having to battle, fighting each other as both seem too stubborn to admit a mistake.
If you are wondering: the Heavenly Principles as I see it is the title given to the person who sits on the Throne in the Sky and decides the laws and rules of the world, who decides the fate and destiny of the world.
It would be amazing if we could take the Abyss' sibling's journey in the past and see the old Teyvat. And maybe it won't take a year per region
My theory was that:
Since the third descender has died, while we are the 4th, and the twins were abducted by the unknown god at the same time, our true sibling was dead for a long time, and the abyssal sibling that we see throught the game is actually a clone of some kind, this could also potentially explain how the abyssal sibling :
Has the memories of their past adventures, yet no strong fillings about them,
While still being "of Teyvat".
Because the world our Traveller wakes in isn't the world the pair arrived on. It's fake.
Also, Traveller does have a vision - Paimon.
I think the abyss sibling purposely wrote themselves into irmensol, for what reason i cant say though
I'm hoping Pierro is going to have some stories to tell us about out sibling, once we get to Snezhnaya
i think its simplier, my theory is that after the events she witnessed she lost her will to rival the world and then by some means her fate was attached to teyvat now
Don't know man
Is this only if you play Aether? Is it the other way around if you play as Lumine?
It's either or. Because Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence referring Lumine on this video as the 'Abyss Twin'. She states this on the beginning of the video.
Why you painting it as Lumine is Canon Abyss Twin?
Because Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence referring Lumine on this video as the 'Abyss Twin'. She states this on the beginning of the video.
Funny enough, the next Dain quest is right around the corner.
She is; after all she is my Traveler and Aether is the Abyss Prince.
Why Is Aether Not A Descender?
Me too
Me too
Because Aster has Aether as her traveler, hence referring Lumine on this video as the 'Abyss Twin'. She states this on the beginning of the video.
I didnt grind hard enough my apologies 🙏🙏
Miss gurl was just not bothered she just wants to live👌🏻🧚🏻
Cleary she's an Ascender
what if lumine still IS a descender but pierro keeps it secret to protect her of something? scara told us they knew each other and nahida told us that the descender classification is fatui information she received from the doctor. just because the fatui dont classify her as a descender doesnt mean she isnt one?
that would not explain irminsul having lumine in its database while aether is not as he is still a descender.
nahida looked into irminsul to double check and found some info about sibling, she shouldnt have found anything, so sibling is indeed not a decender
Well no, obviously because we don't know what the sibling did while the traveler was asleep so whether she is or isn't and why she's recorded within irminsul is something we won't know and it's knowledge we can't derive from the fatui classification, we can only theorise @@Valkirth
@@emd4682 true we don't know what they did when we slept but we do know lumine isn't classified as one as it's in game, there are only 4 descenders, the primordial one is suspected of being one of them , heavenly principles, the 3rd one is already confirmed to be dead and Aether as stated by nihida as the last descender at the end of the sumeru quest line and also proven when Aether was the only one who remembered Scaramouche when both paimon and nihida forgot him, we also know that information and memories about Descenders will not be recorded in Irminsul.
that is not to say lumine was not a descender at the beginning of the game (but the game is hinting at no) which is either linked to khaenri'ah in some way or as Scaramouche said that the sibling "came to this world because the heavens responded to the summoning" where as you were probably just following lumine.
the book Perinheri also points out that the Khaenri'ahn's waited for a descender but such a person never showed up (we know lumine was there during the cataclysm).