Cant it be third descender is traveller sibling that already clear 1 phase of cycle samsara? Cos her name is write in irminsul and we see her in caribet backstory. And we almost cant talk with her. Maybe she is only shadow of the past. The same when we down in chasm, there is hilicurl and lumine give them flower, but we still cant meet her, cos our sibling is only left memories, she already gone as third descender?
Have you read Rene’s note about what a descender actually is? Not all aliens to Teyvat are descenders; they need a will strong enough to rival the world itself. This is why the Narwhal is not a descender even if it enters Teyvat through some portal. It also explains why our sibling might not be classified as a descender.
we don`t know reasoning behind fatui and nahida`s classification of a descender, so this note have nothing to add. Rene might be right, but it doesn`t mean that Fatui excluded abyss twin from descenders for the same reason
i think nahida explicitly told us that our sibling belonged to this world according to the irminsul.... as irminsul only has information about things belonging to teyvat and our sibling was recorded in the irminsul
It was already kinda obvious that coming from outside of Teyvat wasnt enough to make one a descender and Narzissenkreuz research confirmed that. The title is « reserved for wills that can rival an entire world ». Descenders are most likely tied with Teyvats cycle of destruction and creation, which Narzissenkreuz also talks about : Teyvat is in its 4th cycle currently. Caterpillar also reminds us of the « rule of three » introduced by Ruu back in Tsurumi.
True, I feel like if Zhongli wasn't in Liyue, Havria would have teamed up with Guizhong and one of them would have replaced the other after the cataclysm.
Headcannon The third is still alive within Irminsul, if not Irminsul itself. The statues of the seven are the third trying to communicate with the traveler, possibly. The statues (as well as alchemy tables, odd) are the only thing in the game that you interact with that gives you dialogue. "The world opens itself before those with noble hearts." Irminsul is the world. There is a heartbeat near the statues. The statues talk directly to the traveler. The traveler has a vague idea of what the statues are, because they comment that "this power is.. this can't be good' after they touch the first statue. FRINGE HEADCANNON The third is the abyss twin, who had been either sent back in time, or from another samsara had their true, celestial body turned into the gnosis. The abyss twin in game that the traveler meets is a puppet or construct housing their mind. "That throne in heaven was not meant for you", because it was forcefully given to their twin, which we need to steal back
U have to consider that not all other who come to tyvat beyond the stars consider as descender it's now clear what is a descender “ those who's will rivel the entire world consider as descender" maybe our sibling doesn't have such a will.
this is what i fear if turns out to be confirmed and there are hints based on my personal understanding: (i wish i am wrong) - the reason why the twin is not registered as descender, at the end of 3.2 AC, maybe the one we refer is not our actual sibling but inherit its mind and appearance as an abyss princess/prince - at the end of 4.2 AC, when the traveler (aether) is asked by neuv if he possessed the same trait of the 3rd descender, the way the camera pov assessing the body of the traveler from top to bottom is sus is either misleading or a foreshadowing - the last lines of dains in teyvat chapter is about who is worthier of rescuing "her"
@@cosmicstargirI I think lumine existed way before descenders and irmensoul tree, when she came back her journey was recorded because she was originally from teyvat and secondly she stayed in this world because maybe she was kinda ruler of princess in this world (I don’t mean she was strong but like a queen or king ruling in sense ) She may have remembered of her past through second descender
@@cosmicstargirIShe said the abyss twin is not a descender and is from Teyvat. And there are already lore drops in artifact stories to suggest that Teyvat has already gone through what is is going through more than once. So it's not out of the question that the traveler has been in Teyvat for more than one cycle. They didn't arrive only 500 years ago, they arrived one cycle ago, slept through it while the abyss twin did what we did, then the world reset, the twin was turned into the gnosis and resurrected as a part of the world, then 500 years later we wake up
4.2 World quest spoilers: Narzissenkreuz elaborated on the nature of "Descenders", that he himself wanted to become one. To be a "Descender" is not just someone who came from outside of Teyvat, but it's "easier" to become one if they were from outside this world or universe. That's because the true condition of becoming a Descender is to be one who is not tied to the fate of Teyvat. Which is why even though our Sibling fell to Teyvat with us, they did not become a Descender because they resorted to fate. Maybe they gave up, maybe their will wasn't strong enough, maybe they were too strongly affected by the events of Cataclysm or Caribert and became intertwined with the fate of Teyvat. Whatever the case is, if someone has become tied to Teyvat's fate, they get recorded in the Irminsul and they will not be considered a Descender. Only entities with the will strong enough to defy destiny will be a Descender.
someone originally from Teyvat could become a Descender ? That seems so hard because their fate is linked to Teyvat from the moment they're born, no ? (I haven't done the quest so I don't know anything about it)
It's stated that to be a descender they must have a will that rivals the world. Its possible that lacking such will gets you "assimilated" into Teyvat as if you were a native.
@@Cyuutie Yea it basically sounds impossible but Narzissenkreuz thought it was theoretically possible and wanted to achieve that, I won't spoil anything more.
@@101Mant Yea if your will is not stronger than the world, you'll just become part of the world's will, part of its flow. So Descenders are people who can push against the flow of destiny itself, people who have the power to change the world.
The thing is- would the 3rd Descender even be cooperative? If you already have the power- why risk losing it all to some uncooperative all-powerful god who could upend your entire plan
@Dejay-rl2zq It could also be possible they could just the descender's power without reviving them- Natlan may have something to do with resurrection, but that could literally be metaphorical for all we know-
I find it interesting how all 4 descenders that came to teyvat all brought some form of destruction in there arrival and were able to change the world in different ways 1 descender literally terraformed the planet and defeated the seven sovereigns 2nd descender had a war with the first which nearly destroyed all of Teyvat and was also said to bring about all types of chaos in their wake 3rd descender dying created the gnosis which started the archon war which literally changed the foundation of the world and it's system 4th descender is literally he khaenrian war which changed teyvat forever
@@luckybuddy1234 It is during our time that the world is drastically changing once more. Technically, we've been at the center of every major historical event since the Cataclysm.
After you finish the long storyline with Ann, Caterpillar, and Seymour (I forgot the quest name but I do know the characters), there’s a note left at the Ordo that states that not all who come from beyond Teyvat are descenders, only those with the will to change the world or something along those lines
The more information we get, the less we fully understand. I know we've probably just went through the first half of the game and we have 3-4 years left to get all the answers, but I hope that some of the ends start to meet in Natland. As for my opinion on the 3rd descender: - I don't think that The Third was killed off. I believe they worked together with whoever was left after the war between The First and The Second. - Why were the gnoses created? In order to create order. There were lots of gods at the time. A time period much more barbaric than the present. Those gods just witness the most powerful being known to existence, The First, fight a new, equally powerful being, The Second. Regardless of who came on top, the winner would have been drained and/or weakened. Hence, a good number of those gods AND any of the dragon sovereigns still left around or recently born ones would have seen this as an opportunity. So, not only did the world and life (innocent humans, animals, plants, lesser elemental life-forms, etc) have to survive something as massive as a fight between two Descenders, NOW they had to potentially go through another power struggle. The Third probably decided to sacrifice themselves and created, in my opinion, not just the gnoses, but also the basis of the statues, through which elemental energy can be stored (gnosis) and channelled back into the world (statue). - My speculation about the statues and The Third doing this willingly aside, there's a fact that I'd say is not so easy to refute: the fact that Celestia/The Winner never explicitly said there HAD to be a war. Seven seats were opened. That's it. In Sumeru, Celestia offered the gnosis to King Deshret. The word is "offered", hence, they judged him to be most fitting for the role. But he refused and handed it over to Rhukhadevata. Celestia wasn't against this, as far as we know. Deshret fought and killed opponents in the past, but it's never mentioned that he did that explicitly for the sake of winning the gnosis, rather, he did that and thus became The King of Red Sand. In Mondstadt, Decarabian and Andrius were fighting well before the Archon war was even spoken of and Venti joined the human rebellion around the time it started, which ultimately ended with Decarabian's death and Andrius deciding that he couldn't become the archon and choosing to pass away. Celestia was also ok with Venti not having fought Andrius to take the gnosis. Heck, they were ok with having an archon who openly supported humans rebelling, defeating and potentially killing their ruler-god. Both cases prove that a seat among the seven could be taken through peaceful means and that what mattered more to Celestia is the god being kind and benevolent towards humans. - This leads me to conclude that the Archon war was an event instigated by the gods of the mortal realm, not by Celestia. As far as we know, not a single one of the first archons were a bloodthirsty murderer or a manipulator. Even Morax, the god of war, genuinely cared deeply for his friends, allies and subjects. Why Celestia didn't stop them is another question entirely, with one of the plausible answers, of course, being that they simply couldn't. This story has made it clear that gods aren't all-powerful and flawless, so I'd not be surprised if they tried and failed or couldn't even try. It would certainly add to the drama and be a nice surprise, compared to the expected "yes, it was all a part of the plan". Honestly, I think that Hoyoverse have been making us stand on the "Get convinced that Celestia was 100% to blame for everything bad in this world" and will laugh wholeheartedly when they pull it under us. I'm not saying that they're blameless, but I will remain sceptical until we truly have solid proof on more points.
@@shadowwolfcat13 From what I've seen everyone thinks they are good, or atleast innocent at the very least. A lot of people basically believe what you've said in the last paragraph. I believe the second won the war but since it didn't create Tevyat it needed the help of the first to maintain order, together they created the gnosis to that end using the body of the third, afterwards it banished the first ("The keeper is fading, the creator has yet to come").
@@AndrewsMobs Huh, interesting how we've bumped into opposite sides of this community. As for what is written in the Traveller's profile, I'm currently of the opinion that the "keeper" is the Sustainer, aka, the one who we met and a subordinate of The First or The Second. Meanwhile, the "creator" is either The First or whatever entity first created life on Teyvat. "The world shall burn no more" gives me the impression that the "burning" cycle of the world, where one mass extinction happens and a new type of lifeforms and order begin, will end when the Traveller ascends and most likely either assumes full control or sacrifices themselves to save the world.
We already know through the notes of rene that a descender is someone who has enough willpower to rival worlds. That makes sense because the sibling doesnt have a will that big on her own and compensates that with the will off the abyss as she said in the we will be reunited quest
According to a key figure in narzissenkreuz ordo, to be classified as a descender you need to have a will that can rival the entire fate of Teyvat, hencee why there's four of them. And said that any outside figure can't all be classified as one, meaning theres more outside figures but not called as descenders as their will is not powerful enough
"This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world. That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world." Notes on the Narzissenkreuz Ordo 1st Descender - Create the world - Phanes, the usurper, the master of four shades, Heavenly Principles 2nd Descender - Sustain the world - Unknown God, the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles 3rd Descender - Destroy the world - Nibelung, the Dragon King 4th Descender - Protect the world - Aether/Lumine the Traveler from another world To me thats closed until new information.
My main question is, i thought the second who came hated the primordial one, and it was pretty much a huge war between them and one of them either parished or was sealed away. So how and why did the both of them end up working together to stop the third???
Neuvillette vision story says that after the war between the first and the second, wounded phanes and "a one who came after" created the gnosises together This more likely means that the 3rd descender came to teyvat AFTER the war between the first and second, so they worked with phanes to create the gnosises
@@mitab1 the idea on paper makes sense. But in practicality it still does not answer how the loser of the previous war survived, and existed alondside the the winner even after this being a war of vengeance. Then not only did they exist together long after the war, but they also worked together to stop the third descender. Im not sure if you know the implications of what your saying is like saying neuvillete worked together with the archons. Though on paper its possible and could make sense, from the information we have it wouldn't make sense atm
@@KlLLMOCRACY dude did you read my comment? I literally said it's impossible for the primordial one to work with the second who came, And that the one who made the gnosises with the primordial one was the 3rd descender themselves, so the 3rd descender choose to die in order to create the gnosises, but I don't believe they're fully dead, rather they're living on in Celestia, in a new body
Maybe the third was so powerful that the winner needed the help of the loser to deal with them. If the third could defeat the one, and then turn around and defeat the other afterwards (or cause enough collateral damage that there wouldn't be a Teyvat left to fight over) they'd both be in danger so they worked together to get rid of the larger threat.
I am sure that the 3rd desender is the other twin, since it remains that he is the same body as the traveler, apart from why Skirk does not mention it, it is because we will see until the last nation in Tartaglia and it will be the plot twist, why It is obvious that it will be the twin, but for some reason she is alive and so it will be like she went back in time (trunks style since another reality is created) or maybe it will be us since first in the beta it says that the celestial order tortures the twin and they have been impaled, and it was rarely changed, I mean if that will be the end that's why one will have to save her so that she doesn't become 'gnosis' I mean our twin is already dead. and it is obvious that zhongli or venti know it, and what is certain is that the tsarina will revive our sister. rather we will use the pieces and win the final battle with the power of our dead twin in the gnosis, revived in some way.
My theory is that the 3rd descender is the sinner and that that his/her body is traped in the purple cristal in caribert quest and that he/she persueded pierro to look for the gnosis because they are the containers for his/her powers which was separated from his/her body by the first and second who came in abattle they had,in which the primordial one got too weak and desapear from celestia and fell into a profound sleep until the traveler (mc)woke up and that is why the second who came stayed in the trone, and one more thing;i think that the archon war was to choose the strongest to each of the elements to guard the gnosis(containers of the third descenders power source)from the people of the abyss 😂ho are trying to bring back the sinner
I think your spot on! I wrote something similar in my comment. To round your theory out a bit, I believe the second descender was Pierro himself who is actually the Dragon King Nibelung (Alberich). This tracks with their mythological references.
There's, hmm... More lore regarding Descenders in Fontaine than what we learn from the Archon Quest... But as you seem to not have mentioned any of it in this video, I guess you haven't encountered it yet But people might spoil
1:44 The siblings aren't considered descendants since she's traveled Teyvat and completed the cycle, saving her info in Irminsul-making her exempt from descendant status.
Crackpot theory: The Traveler's sibling is really the 3rd descender and the one we talked to is just a fragment of them residing in the Irminsul. From the We Will Be Reunited quest, the twin said that "I have already traveled through this world once. Once you reach the end of your journey as I did, you will see for yourself the true nature of this world." meaning they've already finished their Samsara Cycle, and the reason that they're now registered in the Irminsul as a citizen of this world and we are not is because their fate has been integrated in the system and can be manifested in Leylines.. the branches of Irminsul Tree. Also, the sibling's name if we chose Aether as our Traveler, is Lumine.. meaning to illuminate, just like Lucifer/Samael, the lightbringer. We can assume that they landed on Teyvat to instill knowledge, and the fact that they have a vendetta against Celestia and the Heavenly Principles, aka the Divinity, is akin to Lucifer rebelling against God.
One RUclipsr Ashikai claims that being a Descender depends on their power of will. That the Abyss twin lacks the will to be a Descender while our traveler does
pretty confident the archon war was not a war for the purpose of the distribution of the gnosis, but a by product. The goetia names more than likely represent the shards of the primordial one and the war was the 'the shards of the primordial one will consume themselves'
I don't remember where, but I heard a story about a being dismembered and the pieces of that being reunited would revive him Natlan has a revival/reincarnation theme and is also the last Gnosis to be collected so it seems suspicious to me
I think the 3rd descender is the abyss sibling. In Genshin we have 3 current instances of an archon not being who they really are ( ei not being the original electro archon, nahida being a “ better branch of rukiadavta” and furnia being a human counter part to focalor.) we also know that information in irminsul, can be changed with instances with nadhia and scara. The only problem with this is the timing but I think it could be solved since we know that in raidens story quest that when we left she was fighting herself for over 500 years, and after we helped her she ended up planting the Sakura tree in the past, the same one that appeared to her after she came back from the archon war. So what I personally believe is that the true abyss twin is dead and they knew they were going to die so they split part of themselves just like Nahida and focalor did , and gave the abyss sibling a certain mission to carry out. Becuz to me it doesn’t make sense why the abyss sibling would see the traveler after not seeing them for so long and being like “ lol bye you haven’t explored the truth of this world yet” doesn’t seem like something a sibling that traveled legit worlds with you would say. Ontop of this it would make sense for the abyss sibling to be a counter part/ split soul to the true sibling becuz nadhia states that the abyss sibling is record to hail from khaenri’ah
this is genius! I mean if the theory about The Tsaritsa resurrecting the 3rd descender is true and if the 3rd descender is the abyss twin, then maybe we can see a final battle between Phanes against us and our twin at the end.
Pretty nice theory, I especially like the theory the 3rd descender was the Outlander in the Seelie story, now some data from the game that may add to your theories: - Humanity was created by the Primordial one 400 years after defeating the Dragon sovereigns, and created the sky and Earth "for" the humans. So humanity may have a purpose in the Primordial plans - After battling the Second, The primordial one "could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world" and they joined forces to make the Gnosis. So teh gnosis and the gods may be a way the Primordial one enforces the authority over teh world after his fight. Love your video, great work.
The lore designers purposefully giving us information on descenders through fatui intel, I think its valid to assume that fatui have learnt something about the descenders and especially the enigmatic 3rd descender which is what prompted the cryo archon to collect the remains of 3rd descender's power.
My initial idea about why the fatui were collecting the gnosis was that, because they are chess pieces, you need all of them to play (ie. challenge celestia). But now I can’t help but wonder if “the incandescent ode of resurrection” refers to the resurrection of the 3rd descender (with the gnosis). I got this idea from that video of the head of the fatui playing chess, with some of the pieces being gnoses and others not.
I still personally believe the third descender is the dragon king nibelung. Returned to teyvat after finding the power to rival celestia(the abyss) and all the danger that holds. The dragon king's body holding elemental authorities lines up with the gnosis and lines up with the third descender bringing what appears to be the abyss into teyvat, forcing the nails to be dropped.
i dont think so because she's still a part of teyvat (she forgot the existence of rukha) meanwhile descenders are supposed to be beings from other worlds with incredible power
going back to the archon quest about how skirk said the gnoses cause devastation and bad omens. it really makes you wonder if the traveler (us) is the reason why the events of some nations happen in the first place. we are a descender and have the same properties of the third descender to absorb elemental energy; so wouldn’t we also have the same thing of being a bad object of omen like skirk said. also what if the plan to collect the gnoses is to shape reality of teyvat, aster did say that two gnoses combined was able to change the fate of something in irminsul, imagine the power of all the gnoses combined. you. could be able to shape reality in a sense.
Descenders were always fated to usurp the throne from Teyvat's current ruler. Though judging from Neuvilette's lines, the Second managed to somehow trick the Third by making them believe that making their body split into pieces of gnoses is the best solution for them both. Thus, the second was able to change his fate from being usurped, and the first being to bring down two of his fellow descenders. With the database of the Irminsul in his hands, and the omnipotence Celestia provides he is near to impossible to be brought down unless someone who is on par with his power through ascension shakes the divine principles, his rule shall reign eternal.
7:45 this isnt that far fetched. It fits egyptian mythology on Osirias whose body was cut into pieces. Seramis, which might parallel sophia also looked to getting all the pieces back to “bring that one back from the afterlife” That said its also not far fetched cause it gives actual motive to what might the tsarista be doing? Why are the fatui gathering all the gnosises?
So Celestia just steals something from everyone I see: - Stole the power of the dragon sovereigns - Stole Teyvat from the Vishaps and dragons - Stole(?) the power of the 3rd descender to make the gnosis (we aren't really sure if the 3rd descender consented to being used for the gnosis) - There's a theory that they also stole the 4 shades, they might have originally been their own entities
What if what is happening with the 3rd Descender is similar to Typhon in Greek mythology? Zeus (the Heavenly Principles) defeated him (3rd Descender), but because he was immortal, he chopped him into pieces (Gnoses) and threw them into Tartarus (Teyvat) which was guarded by the Hecatoncheires (Archons). I don't mean to suggest that the 3rd Descender is immortal, but that there might be something unique about him that resulted in what I described above.
i heard a theory that says that dainsleif is the third descender and it makes a lot of sense, especially when we consider that in teyvat prologue dainsleif is planning to face the traveler at the end of his journey after he gets his full power and nobody can come fight a descender other than another descender
Do you remember abiut the quest is sumeru in which the traveller travel back time and he/she saw in sumeru a purple or some wha evil trapoed inside which the abyss order was born?? He said he was a sinner, thats why he was lock up, and he has no body ...so my theory is that he was the 3rd descender who was punish because of a certain sin and his body was became a gnosis which tsaritsa was stealing it to the other gods, then this tsaritsa was the god of love, the 3rd descender migth be a lover os tsaritsa but he probably broke some taboo thats why he was lock up and his body turn inti gnosis, then tsaritsa probably broke and became as cold as ice... Then this 3rd descender probably leading the abyss order along traveller twin.
Also to keep in mind that people from beond the fernment are only decenders if they have the power to change the world. Its said in one of the long fountain world quest lines (One of the pages from the many quest lines regarding the Narzissenkreuz Ordo)
Remains can also mean something left behind so it could be that the 3rd descender created the gnosis and left them behind not his their actual body, skirk said they often have trouble communicating with humans so this could one of those times.
so everything is about to change if Dottore burns down Irminsul which I think is going to happen really really soon. The image with Dottore burning down a tree has not yet happened and it is not likely that they made that scene without meaning. If successful people in Theyvat should be able to alter their own fate however Irminsul is responsible for the upholding of the world, so I don't really know what happens if he burns it down. If anything awakens the Heavenly Principles a.k.a the descenders it would be that. Him burning down another random tree seems less likely, but it is of course possible.
I thought the gnosis was just used to mint mora? So that Zhongli or "Morax" himself doesn't have to be in the golden house 24/7? I thought Zhongli wasn't making mora anymore so as to not absolutely wreck the economy.
It kinda reminds me of ancient Egypt practises of mummifying and putting organs in jars. Perhaps the gnosis are like organs in a jar, and the rest of the body is somewhere... sealed... redy to be dug up....
Beside everything in this video, I also have something in my mind after finishing fontaine archon quest. Come to think of it, could it be that the all devouring narwhal is a kind of "honkai"?😨
Um the first descender is the primodial one aka paimon, the second descender fought paimon ad stole her power then tossed her into the sea, the second descender gave the third descender the gnosis and the fourth descender is the traveler
Maybe it's too exaggerated but in the old genshin intro, the one from the beta. In one part you can see something like the twin falling and then seven circles appear that can symbolize the seven gnoses. This could also explain that by becoming part of the twin in the seven gnoses, the twin is considered part of teyvat, although I don't know.
I really like your points so consider Paimon to be the third descender, stripped of her power and cut into gnosis but beeing summoned in her natural form wich is why she never really "connects" to teyvat by walking. Also from the beginning she trys to lecture us but fails most of the time wich would also be prove of her nature to bring wisdom but beeing stripped of her power and even knowledge. Now also consider us beeing summoned into an existing person of teyvat to cloak our descending like furina cloaked not really beeing the hydro archon to fullfill the fate wich was cast on the people of fontain but to descive the heavenly principles. This would also explain why our sibling is from teyvat but we are not and have false memorys. Yes our sibling was shoked to see us but did not weaver any moment to still pursue it's quest wich means our sibling either choose a fate on teyvat wich created a bond that made him or her from teyvat or our sibling was never a descender in the first place and we just took over his or her sibling but we were summoned by will to challange the heavenly principles wich are either the first descender or something even higher but i guess the first. So OUR quest to all of teyvat is just to repower paimon in the end. Also we kinda gave skittish answers about gnosis but for paimon they were always something precious she even can't belive Neuvilette just gave it away but since he is an elemental dragon in the first place he isn't interested in this power since his own once rivaled the power of a descender so much it took two and a third to keep him in check and maybe he is the best hint for why fighting the elemental dragons in the first place and creating archons is a thing. Because dragons do not understand humans even though they are able to feel like humans and are able to understand humans if they can relate but i guess dragons werent always that wise so maybe Paimon was sent to give elemental dragons the wisdom to understand humans but the first and second descender had other plans wich they maybe cloaked in human desires but this would lead to the heavenly principles not beeing a descender but also would explain why the heavenly principles are reffering to the arrogance of mankind even though descenders seem to be the reason for constantly changing teyvats fate and thus messing up everything and even creating the abyss wich seems not to be of teyvat in the first place. But those are just guesses maybe some point you in the right direction but paimoin beeing the third descender and beeing stripped of her powers makes hell a lot of sense to me after your video even though i am just into this for three months still finished fontain mainstory a week ago 😅
In a rare divergence from my "blame Alice for everything" thoery; I'm instead going with the idea that the abyss twin might actually be in some way the spirit of the third descender. Bound to and integrated into irminsol via the gnosis.
I think this war of vangence is not the war with the Second who came but a different war after when the dragon king returns, the very reason for the seelies existence was to guide the Savage humans, but in the time of phanes the couldn't be savages, so i think they become savages after the war with the Second who came and then the seelies were created
I think the other twin is the 3rd descender and that. The twin descended first before the archon war or during the archon war since time works differently in celestia which could explain why the archons and that the other twin's divinity has been taken by the heavenly principle, stored in the gnosis which made the other twin absorb abyssal energy which made the other twin became a residence of teyvat. Idk just a fun plot and theory if that was the case
Makes me think that the 3rd descender is the outlander who married the Seelie, and that the Tsaritsa is that Seelie, trying to bring back her loved one.
You talked about angels a long time ago and I loved that theory. Here: I'll give you all a headcanon ranking of the angels. The highest, mid, and lowest ranking are in order. Highest Order: Middle Order Lower Order: - Seraphim = The Twin and Sibling - Dominions = The Seven Sovereigns - Principalities = The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles - Cherubim = The Primordial One - Virtues = The Four Shining Shades - Archangels = The Seven Archons - Thrones = The Second who Came - Powers = The Heavenly Principles - Angels = Allogenes I'll add that there could be there could be more than Four Shining Shades. Because if they are the Virtues that means there would be Seven of them in total. Their called the Seven Heavenly Virtues consisting of the Four Cardinal Virtues and Three Theological Virtues. THREE??? Where have we seen Three menacing individuals in the game? No... In the Manga when someone asked Barbatos about Celestia. (There is a possibility that these Three menacing individuals and the Three Shades who went with the Primordial One are one of the same.) (They probably came back corrupted.)
In Fontain archon quest, Traveler had dreams of Child while carrying his Vision. So what will happen if the Traveler gets his hands on a gnosis for extended period.
You are the first Genshin content creator who actually said Rukkhadevata correctly. The last part is called Devata (देवता), which means God. Thank you so so much Aster!!
Wasn't it explained in the Ordo story quest that "People who's will rivals the world are the descenders"? I thought it pretty much explained why the other sibling isn't a descender
My theory is that our twin is the third descender and he shed the gnoses joining the abyss because our brother doesn't posses an element so perhaps he gave his elements away being in the abyss would mean Celestia,s gaze can,t reach him so to the gods he,s dead The abyss was also doing an operation with the loom of fate which is still suspicious to me like why did they want to change fate perhaps
WAIT IF THE TSARITSA IS TRYING TO GATHER THE GNOSIS TO REVIVE THE THIRD THAT MEANS THAT HER DEAD HUSBAND IS THE 3RD (it's confirmed he's a guy buy skirk) AM I RIGHT??
Skirk said the Gnoses are like god's curse... maybe the remains of the Third Descender is dangerous like dead gods' remains. If so, the true reason behind creation of the Gnoses might be “contain the descender's remains safely.”
Did the gnoses birth the Archon War? Or were the gnoses just the end result? A lot of people seem to just assume that the Archon War was fought *because* of the gnoses, but we don't really know for a fact that they are what TRIGGERED it... only that they were the prize Celestia offered to the victors. And if fighting over the gnoses was entirely the PURPOSE of the Archon War, set in motion by Celestia... (I dunno, threatening the gods or something...), then WHY did Celestia set it in motion when they did? Remember that Teyvat did have a time period where no gods walked the land, and that humanity's only connection to Celestia was the heavenly envoys (possibly seelie), which we were recently REMINDED OF in Chenyu Vale... and at the same time, the story spoke of the Archon War to remind us THAT happened. So why was Celestia content to leave the land godless before, but not later? What changed? Why is the post-Fontaine story bringing these story elements up all over again? It seems pretty solid to me that the Primordial One was too weak to continue to control Teyvat's systems, and thus the gnoses were created to re-establish that order, (as Neuvilette told us). We see this some in Chenyu Vale - the mists starting to retake the land, the soil and water changing so that the tea is ruining, an adeptus had to use their power to fix it.... because the natural order was taking over the area. But again, wouldn't that have been a problem before? When no gods walked the land? What changed? I feel like the reason Chenyu Vale brought up the Archon War and the loss of the heavenly envoys (and even made a subtle reference to the moon sisters via a certain set of seelie) is that the "secret" we will learn in Natlan will have a LOT to do with the Archon War and the Third Descender's identity. Random thought that could be related.... What if all the "demon gods" that we know of... are actually the Seelie? If demons are fallen angels and the seelie are Genshin's "angels" as heavenly envoys, and the seelie were losing their forms because of the curse placed on them, then MAAAAYBEEEE the "gods" needed gnoses to retain their forms? We know that the Goddess of Flowers was a seelie who had been "exiled from the heavens" when she met King Deshret and became worshiped as a goddess by their people. ...In fact, what if the curse placed on the seelie was the erosion mentioned by Zhongli? This could ALSO explain why all the Archons we've encountered seem to be AGAINST Celestia.
My biggest issue with the whole ‘the Tsaritsa is gonna revive the third descender’ theory is how would she even know what the gnoses really are. Is someone in the Fatui a descender and if not, how would they even have discovered this in the first place considering it was Skirk who told us. It’s entirely possible that she wasn’t even born when the gnoses were created. Of course we have no way of knowing at this point, but it’s really interesting to think about any other reason she could have for collecting the gnoses beyond reviving someone.
It's much more likely that the phanes made the gnosises NOT with the second who came,( because everything about them makes ot impossible that phanes would ever work with them) BUT rather with the third descender themselves, the third descender could have sacrificed themselves to create the gnosises, or they're alive in Celestia but in a different body from their original one that was used to create the gnosises, It would be Hella weird if it's the first and the second working together, and wouldn't make sense at all
“To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together.” - Neuvis friendship 6 story “Visions”, so it’s basically canon that it’s the case
I have an odd theory… What if the third descender is nibelung? It’s said that nibelung searched for power beyond the skies to seek revenge with the heavenly principles. He then returned to teyvat but the otherworldly (abyss) powers made him unrecognizable. He’s technically of teyvat origin but his desire for revenge might be a will as strong as the world itself. How about the second? I think it’s the seed or an entity that later became irminsul and the ley line web. Possibly killed as well by the heavenly principles to harvest their power. And somehow I think they gave their lives willingly or it’s not too big of a deal for Heavenly Principles. And the war with “The Second who Came” is actually with the third. Maybe the first and the second came together, seen as one arrival but of different origins. The fatui counted them separately nonetheless. The revival of the third descender for me makes a lot of sense if what they’re looking for the gnoses only, not the powers within it. Nibelung’s power is within the casing after all, the ancient authority are just bonuses. It’s quite an irony that the gnosis might be traced with abyssal powers. With nibelung on Tsaritsa’s side, celestia will definitely have a hard time to fight them off again.
With regards to why the gnoses were given to archons as rewards, the answer is simple- to make them the governing and ONLY entity to fully control the elemental powers. We know the current archons were not the gods of elements, but of completely different things(freedom, contracts, eternity, knowledge and justice), however to get the "ultimate" power of element manipulation, they had to win the archon war. And the first one who successfully manipulated all the elements at their will(long before current or former archons were even born) was the Third Descender. This went against the ideals of Celestia and/or Heavenly Principles and thus, they ordered the first two descenders to subjugate the Third, and strip them off their elemental powers. They were a threat because I assume they learnt how to use those elemental powers from the Sovereigns themselves, who had already lost their divinity in the war against the First Descender. And this knowledge was called "the forbidden knowledge" thereafter. If the Third Descender was left unregulated, they had the potential of even surpassing the original Sovereigns, and may even had created a new element by themselves. After getting their powers, Celestia kept it for a long, long time before deciding them to give away to the best(not necessarily the strongest) gods who could propel humanity forwards. The traveler is called the Fourth Descender because we can use all the elemental powers like the Third. The reason why our sibling is not a descender is because presumably they lack the ability of element manipulation, hence they sought out the powers "from beyond", aka Abyssal power. We also know from the Unfinished Comedy world quests that according to ancient Fontainian researchers, a Descender is a being who possess the will to change the entire fate of the world. That also implies not every Outlander is a Descender, and maybe not every Descender needs to be an Outlander. Tsaritsa is collecting all the gnoses because she wants to make herself(or someone else) the Fifth Descender, and maybe create an element of her own(most probably "Light" element) that can counter the powers of Abyss, who have the "Dark" element. But since the creation of such a thing is a sin, Celestia and Heavenly Principles are ready to subjugate her as well. This is her last all out war against both Celestia and Abyss that will either liberate Tevyat, or either/both of Celestia and Abyss will rule over it for eternity.
What if rhinedottir is (related) to the third descender? The themes of wisdom, poison and sin are all quite present in what liitle info we have about her. Also her mention by skirk in the new archon quest. In my headcanon, present rhinedottir is a reincarntaion of the 3rd descender, maybe a part of their body that seaked humanity. When she started growing her power of Khemia, Celestia was afraid of the 3rd descender coming back and hoped for destroying them before it was too late. Thoughts?
Imagine how cool it would be if hoyo decided to make a prequel of genshin of playing as the other twin we didn’t chose and get to see what really happened in khaenri'ah
Hmmm interesting but I’m very convinced about zhongli through this theory video by this channel “wei” see their zhongli identity theory and I’d love to see you talk about it too! It’s one of the theories which is very believable and has more than enough Evidence, since you talk about how this descender may still be alive but not at its full power supports zhongli too?
I mean that vision was described with the eye of a god and gnosis with the heart of a god. So the seven Gnosis are the heart of the 3rd Decender in 7 parts?
Now I'm wondering if Alice is the 3rd decender, but the "buisness" she's ben attending to is actually the red herring. What if Alice is currently formless, like a soul with no body, able to contact her friends and family through her consciousness (which we have clearly seen is possible) and the Gnosis are the remains of her physical body.
Ok, but anyone else a bit confused by the timeline of things? From what I understand, the first descender took over teyvat first, and to do that, had to get the authorities of the dragon sovereigns. So why do the gnosis have the dragon authority in them? Did Celestia have them originally stored in the seven thrones, which thanks to Fontaine, have been proven to be more than just a metaphor. Why is this a problem? Because the Gnosis are from the third descender, meaning that the gnosis could only have been made after the dragon authorities had already been seized. Like, what was Celestia doing with the authorities before the gnosis? Also, why does the traveler have similar properties to a gnosis, like element adaptability and the conversion of “faith” into power(the Liyue nuke attack where the main characters surrounded traveler and the traveler got a golden glow, and the fight against shogun where the wishes of the people powered up the traveler)? Is the third descender another one of the traveler’s kind? In that case, who would they be? Maybe the sibling? But that muddies the timeline even further.
My theory: The 3rd decender fought the 2nd alongside Phanes, the 1st, and then they sacrificed themselves so Phanes could create the Gnosis and create a new world order. Neuvilette's stories say that the 1st created the Gnosis alongside "the one who came after", and unless this is some translation error, "came after" doesn't NECESSARILY mean the one immediately after, aka the 2nd, I think it refers to the 3rd. It makes no sense that the 1st and 2nd waged WAR and then worked together later to create the Gnosis out of nowhere. So yeah, I think the 3rd died willingly to create the Gnosis. The new "order" stabilished with the Gnosis is the whole "Vision" system, and the Gnosis are the "keys" to manipulate that system. They are NOT the "Elemental Authority", mind you, its pretty clear the Archons kept their powers even AFTER giving their Gnosis, people still make this mistake. The Tsaritza wants the Gnosis because she wants to either "change" the Vision system, or abolish it altogether. I think there is some horrifying truth behind the whole Vision granting system that she knows of, maybe its actually a curse upon humanity or something, and she wants to end it.
OH WAIT in the new Narzissenkreuz quest there are notes of René where he says that "to gain a Vision is to tie oneself to the fate of the world", so maybe the Visions are how the Heavenly Principles control the "fate" of people in Teyvat? No wonder only the people with the "strongest wills" are granted Visions! Because they're the ones more likely to become a threat to Celestia!
Your theory is flawed in thinking that "the one who came after" isn't the Second Throne. It's pretty ilogical to refer to the 3rd as “ *the* one who came after”, as well as the fact that Phanes used help from anoher Descender to make the Gnoses with the remains of the Third; meaning that when they were being created by two Descenders, the Third was already deceased. Also, though as of now it doesn't make that much sense, just think about it this way: Both the 1st and the 2nd wanted to rule over Teyvat, but since the 3rd introduced Forbidden Knowledge, it was a threat to both's objectives. Striking truce to deal with the 3rd and use its powers to "cure" Teyvat is pretty much their only option; they're deities, not numbskulls. It could also been that, after taking a fat L, the Second Descender was subdued/took a "second-in-command" position to at least have some power over Teyvat. After all, it's safe to say that after the war, it couldn't go back to look for another planet to rule over.
Also and again, it's not like they say "one who came after", but it's " *_the_* one who came after", using a word like "the" pretty much solidifies that it's the Second Throne. Lastly, "Second Throne", pretty much a title of power in a hierarchy of Descenders. I really think that it just decided to join Phanes, at least for the time being.
@@AndrewsMobs Really doubt that the Heavenly Principles lost, since yk, the Sustainer is still there, the Shadows still alive, and Teyvat still working as per their original design...
I wonder if the 3rd Descender is … the Seelie Race? I don’t remember where I heard this, so I could be wrong, but I believe there were Kings amongst the Seelie Race? If so, then perhaps the Gnoses were crafted from their remains. If not, then perhaps certain individuals from the Seelie Race threatened the Heavenly Principles, and their remains were used. Before the Seelie Fall, the Seelie Race guided humanity and were regarded as a divine race. However, if the humans were made from Phanes, then … where did the Seelies come from? I believe that they came from another world as well, possibly coming to Teyvat after Phanes took over it. However, I don’t think they were considered as Descenders at that moment, but later, right after their Fall. (Just to clarify, the 3rd Descender isn’t necessarily the Seelie Race entirely, but possibly individuals that originated from the Seelie Race.) When Nabu Malikata fell into Sumeru, and befriended King Deshret, he afterwards was theorized to have been offered a Gnosis. If this theory is true, then the Gnoses were crafted after the Seelie Fall. Now the reason why I believe it was several individuals is due to there being Seven Gnoses (as far as we know), and I’m under the slight suspicion that the Gnoses are in actuality, a Seelies Court. We know from Electro Seelies that the Seelies Court can have their shape altered to a severe amount. And we know from Warming Seelies and Luminous Seelies from Dragonspine and the Chasm, that it is in a Seelies core nature to provide what is needed by others. And the Heavenly Principles needed a container for the Sovereigns Authority, this need created the Thrones, while the Courts would’ve been created into Chess Pieces. This would indicate that the design of the Gnoses are significant to the Seelies, not the HPs, what this significance is exactly, I do not know. Perhaps it’s to signify that the Seelies guide the humans the same way a Chess Player guides the Chess Pieces? There are a lot of plot holes in this theory of mine, I know. But I’m still going to have a good time supporting it until proven otherwise.
My current goofy theory is that the third descender is what Nibelung brought when he came back to teyvat by mistake or not. Maybe when Nibelung left teyvat, his status changed from native to descender which qualified him to become the "second who came" and then returned to teyvat with whatever power and fought the primordial one. But during the conflict, the third descender being something truly alien did something to the world that both Nibelung and the primordial one couldn't accept. So they had a cease fire or made an alliance, killed the 3d one and made the gnosis out of it. But then again all of this depends on a old ass dragon in middle of desert.
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Aster, *you* are the third descender.
I think she is. Like think about it she knows a lot about teyvat while not being from teyvat. Very suspicious.
sus
Tsaritsa trying desperately to resurrect Aster, she miss her so much XD
Cant it be third descender is traveller sibling that already clear 1 phase of cycle samsara? Cos her name is write in irminsul and we see her in caribet backstory. And we almost cant talk with her. Maybe she is only shadow of the past. The same when we down in chasm, there is hilicurl and lumine give them flower, but we still cant meet her, cos our sibling is only left memories, she already gone as third descender?
Is that a threat..? Are we going to use her remains as an antique🤣
Have you read Rene’s note about what a descender actually is? Not all aliens to Teyvat are descenders; they need a will strong enough to rival the world itself. This is why the Narwhal is not a descender even if it enters Teyvat through some portal. It also explains why our sibling might not be classified as a descender.
Which makes it interesting, as either Twin could be the Descender; the one we chose at the start of the game.
This is very important I hope the lore people cover this note it really fills things out.
we don`t know reasoning behind fatui and nahida`s classification of a descender, so this note have nothing to add. Rene might be right, but it doesn`t mean that Fatui excluded abyss twin from descenders for the same reason
Exactly, or Rene could be wrong. @@flame_ofhope
i think nahida explicitly told us that our sibling belonged to this world according to the irminsul.... as irminsul only has information about things belonging to teyvat and our sibling was recorded in the irminsul
the idea that the third descender came to educate the humans fits really well with his death allowing for the creation of gnoses which means knowledge
This part of the theory i think suits better the second who came
It was already kinda obvious that coming from outside of Teyvat wasnt enough to make one a descender and Narzissenkreuz research confirmed that. The title is « reserved for wills that can rival an entire world ». Descenders are most likely tied with Teyvats cycle of destruction and creation, which Narzissenkreuz also talks about : Teyvat is in its 4th cycle currently. Caterpillar also reminds us of the « rule of three » introduced by Ruu back in Tsurumi.
I STILL agree with the theory that they did not want the strongest archons to win but those that loved humans the most. Easier to control.
True, I feel like if Zhongli wasn't in Liyue, Havria would have teamed up with Guizhong and one of them would have replaced the other after the cataclysm.
Zhongli and Ei be like
@@AndrewsMobs EI wasn't the one who won in the war, it was Makoto
Ei got the archon title@@JaneShepardLive
@@AndrewsMobsafter makoto's death, that is. ei had sacrificed herself. makoto with her powers, resurrected her.
Headcannon
The third is still alive within Irminsul, if not Irminsul itself. The statues of the seven are the third trying to communicate with the traveler, possibly.
The statues (as well as alchemy tables, odd) are the only thing in the game that you interact with that gives you dialogue. "The world opens itself before those with noble hearts." Irminsul is the world. There is a heartbeat near the statues. The statues talk directly to the traveler. The traveler has a vague idea of what the statues are, because they comment that "this power is.. this can't be good' after they touch the first statue.
FRINGE HEADCANNON
The third is the abyss twin, who had been either sent back in time, or from another samsara had their true, celestial body turned into the gnosis. The abyss twin in game that the traveler meets is a puppet or construct housing their mind. "That throne in heaven was not meant for you", because it was forcefully given to their twin, which we need to steal back
U have to consider that not all other who come to tyvat beyond the stars consider as descender it's now clear what is a descender “ those who's will rivel the entire world consider as descender" maybe our sibling doesn't have such a will.
this is what i fear if turns out to be confirmed and there are hints based on my personal understanding: (i wish i am wrong)
- the reason why the twin is not registered as descender, at the end of 3.2 AC, maybe the one we refer is not our actual sibling but inherit its mind and appearance as an abyss princess/prince
- at the end of 4.2 AC, when the traveler (aether) is asked by neuv if he possessed the same trait of the 3rd descender, the way the camera pov assessing the body of the traveler from top to bottom is sus is either misleading or a foreshadowing
- the last lines of dains in teyvat chapter is about who is worthier of rescuing "her"
but Nahida said our sibling is considered from teyvat
@@cosmicstargirI I think lumine existed way before descenders and irmensoul tree, when she came back her journey was recorded because she was originally from teyvat and secondly she stayed in this world because maybe she was kinda ruler of princess in this world (I don’t mean she was strong but like a queen or king ruling in sense )
She may have remembered of her past through second descender
@@cosmicstargirIShe said the abyss twin is not a descender and is from Teyvat. And there are already lore drops in artifact stories to suggest that Teyvat has already gone through what is is going through more than once. So it's not out of the question that the traveler has been in Teyvat for more than one cycle. They didn't arrive only 500 years ago, they arrived one cycle ago, slept through it while the abyss twin did what we did, then the world reset, the twin was turned into the gnosis and resurrected as a part of the world, then 500 years later we wake up
maybe the real third descender was the friends we made along the way.
Paimon? But some theory said paimon is lose power heavenly principle.
hahahaa 😂, maybe that friend who taste osmantis wine
Hilichulrs?
4.2 World quest spoilers:
Narzissenkreuz elaborated on the nature of "Descenders", that he himself wanted to become one. To be a "Descender" is not just someone who came from outside of Teyvat, but it's "easier" to become one if they were from outside this world or universe. That's because the true condition of becoming a Descender is to be one who is not tied to the fate of Teyvat.
Which is why even though our Sibling fell to Teyvat with us, they did not become a Descender because they resorted to fate. Maybe they gave up, maybe their will wasn't strong enough, maybe they were too strongly affected by the events of Cataclysm or Caribert and became intertwined with the fate of Teyvat.
Whatever the case is, if someone has become tied to Teyvat's fate, they get recorded in the Irminsul and they will not be considered a Descender. Only entities with the will strong enough to defy destiny will be a Descender.
someone originally from Teyvat could become a Descender ? That seems so hard because their fate is linked to Teyvat from the moment they're born, no ?
(I haven't done the quest so I don't know anything about it)
It's stated that to be a descender they must have a will that rivals the world. Its possible that lacking such will gets you "assimilated" into Teyvat as if you were a native.
@@Cyuutie Yea it basically sounds impossible but Narzissenkreuz thought it was theoretically possible and wanted to achieve that, I won't spoil anything more.
@@101Mant Yea if your will is not stronger than the world, you'll just become part of the world's will, part of its flow.
So Descenders are people who can push against the flow of destiny itself, people who have the power to change the world.
Plot twist....the player makes you a descender. 1st cutscene things
7:53 that could mean that the Tsaritsa's goal is reuniting the Gnoses to resurrect the Third Descender to fight against the Heavenly Principles...
let's remember the Natlan title "Incandescent Ode of Resurrection". i believe the 3rd Descender will revive in Natlan
@@tartagliasjigglydworshipper Or likely its Himeko considering HI3.
The thing is- would the 3rd Descender even be cooperative? If you already have the power- why risk losing it all to some uncooperative all-powerful god who could upend your entire plan
@Dejay-rl2zq It could also be possible they could just the descender's power without reviving them- Natlan may have something to do with resurrection, but that could literally be metaphorical for all we know-
@@Infelious My goodness I would lose my mind if that is the case.
I find it interesting how all 4 descenders that came to teyvat all brought some form of destruction in there arrival and were able to change the world in different ways
1 descender literally terraformed the planet and defeated the seven sovereigns
2nd descender had a war with the first which nearly destroyed all of Teyvat and was also said to bring about all types of chaos in their wake
3rd descender dying created the gnosis which started the archon war which literally changed the foundation of the world and it's system
4th descender is literally he khaenrian war which changed teyvat forever
the 4th descender is us, and we werent in the khanreahn war
khaenri'ahn war 2 time babyyyyyyyyy
4th is currently the traveler, so nothing broken yet
@@luckybuddy1234 the traveller is both lumine and aether so i wouldnt discount it
@@luckybuddy1234 It is during our time that the world is drastically changing once more. Technically, we've been at the center of every major historical event since the Cataclysm.
After you finish the long storyline with Ann, Caterpillar, and Seymour (I forgot the quest name but I do know the characters), there’s a note left at the Ordo that states that not all who come from beyond Teyvat are descenders, only those with the will to change the world or something along those lines
The more information we get, the less we fully understand. I know we've probably just went through the first half of the game and we have 3-4 years left to get all the answers, but I hope that some of the ends start to meet in Natland. As for my opinion on the 3rd descender:
- I don't think that The Third was killed off. I believe they worked together with whoever was left after the war between The First and The Second.
- Why were the gnoses created? In order to create order. There were lots of gods at the time. A time period much more barbaric than the present. Those gods just witness the most powerful being known to existence, The First, fight a new, equally powerful being, The Second. Regardless of who came on top, the winner would have been drained and/or weakened. Hence, a good number of those gods AND any of the dragon sovereigns still left around or recently born ones would have seen this as an opportunity. So, not only did the world and life (innocent humans, animals, plants, lesser elemental life-forms, etc) have to survive something as massive as a fight between two Descenders, NOW they had to potentially go through another power struggle. The Third probably decided to sacrifice themselves and created, in my opinion, not just the gnoses, but also the basis of the statues, through which elemental energy can be stored (gnosis) and channelled back into the world (statue).
- My speculation about the statues and The Third doing this willingly aside, there's a fact that I'd say is not so easy to refute: the fact that Celestia/The Winner never explicitly said there HAD to be a war. Seven seats were opened. That's it. In Sumeru, Celestia offered the gnosis to King Deshret. The word is "offered", hence, they judged him to be most fitting for the role. But he refused and handed it over to Rhukhadevata. Celestia wasn't against this, as far as we know. Deshret fought and killed opponents in the past, but it's never mentioned that he did that explicitly for the sake of winning the gnosis, rather, he did that and thus became The King of Red Sand. In Mondstadt, Decarabian and Andrius were fighting well before the Archon war was even spoken of and Venti joined the human rebellion around the time it started, which ultimately ended with Decarabian's death and Andrius deciding that he couldn't become the archon and choosing to pass away. Celestia was also ok with Venti not having fought Andrius to take the gnosis. Heck, they were ok with having an archon who openly supported humans rebelling, defeating and potentially killing their ruler-god. Both cases prove that a seat among the seven could be taken through peaceful means and that what mattered more to Celestia is the god being kind and benevolent towards humans.
- This leads me to conclude that the Archon war was an event instigated by the gods of the mortal realm, not by Celestia. As far as we know, not a single one of the first archons were a bloodthirsty murderer or a manipulator. Even Morax, the god of war, genuinely cared deeply for his friends, allies and subjects. Why Celestia didn't stop them is another question entirely, with one of the plausible answers, of course, being that they simply couldn't. This story has made it clear that gods aren't all-powerful and flawless, so I'd not be surprised if they tried and failed or couldn't even try. It would certainly add to the drama and be a nice surprise, compared to the expected "yes, it was all a part of the plan".
Honestly, I think that Hoyoverse have been making us stand on the "Get convinced that Celestia was 100% to blame for everything bad in this world" and will laugh wholeheartedly when they pull it under us. I'm not saying that they're blameless, but I will remain sceptical until we truly have solid proof on more points.
Everyone believes Celestia is blameless.
@@AndrewsMobs Seriously? As far as I've seen, a lot of people think that Celestia is evil/tyranical.
@@shadowwolfcat13 From what I've seen everyone thinks they are good, or atleast innocent at the very least.
A lot of people basically believe what you've said in the last paragraph.
I believe the second won the war but since it didn't create Tevyat it needed the help of the first to maintain order, together they created the gnosis to that end using the body of the third, afterwards it banished the first ("The keeper is fading, the creator has yet to come").
@@AndrewsMobs Huh, interesting how we've bumped into opposite sides of this community.
As for what is written in the Traveller's profile, I'm currently of the opinion that the "keeper" is the Sustainer, aka, the one who we met and a subordinate of The First or The Second. Meanwhile, the "creator" is either The First or whatever entity first created life on Teyvat. "The world shall burn no more" gives me the impression that the "burning" cycle of the world, where one mass extinction happens and a new type of lifeforms and order begin, will end when the Traveller ascends and most likely either assumes full control or sacrifices themselves to save the world.
We already know through the notes of rene that a descender is someone who has enough willpower to rival worlds. That makes sense because the sibling doesnt have a will that big on her own and compensates that with the will off the abyss as she said in the we will be reunited quest
According to a key figure in narzissenkreuz ordo, to be classified as a descender you need to have a will that can rival the entire fate of Teyvat, hencee why there's four of them. And said that any outside figure can't all be classified as one, meaning theres more outside figures but not called as descenders as their will is not powerful enough
Yay,
There‘s nothing better than an Aster Video after a long day.
I remember speculations about the tsaritsa's story revolving around a certain lover maybe the third decender is her lover?
"This, too, is my goal, for not all that comes from beyond may be as one that "descends." That title belongs only to wills that can rival an entire world.
That is what I seek, the way to become just such a will, one that can protect the world, sustain the world, destroy the world, and create the world."
Notes on the Narzissenkreuz Ordo
1st Descender - Create the world - Phanes, the usurper, the master of four shades, Heavenly Principles
2nd Descender - Sustain the world - Unknown God, the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles
3rd Descender - Destroy the world - Nibelung, the Dragon King
4th Descender - Protect the world - Aether/Lumine the Traveler from another world
To me thats closed until new information.
My main question is, i thought the second who came hated the primordial one, and it was pretty much a huge war between them and one of them either parished or was sealed away. So how and why did the both of them end up working together to stop the third???
Maybe the third descender is powerfull
Neuvillette vision story says that after the war between the first and the second, wounded phanes and "a one who came after" created the gnosises together
This more likely means that the 3rd descender came to teyvat AFTER the war between the first and second, so they worked with phanes to create the gnosises
@@mitab1 the idea on paper makes sense. But in practicality it still does not answer how the loser of the previous war survived, and existed alondside the the winner even after this being a war of vengeance. Then not only did they exist together long after the war, but they also worked together to stop the third descender. Im not sure if you know the implications of what your saying is like saying neuvillete worked together with the archons. Though on paper its possible and could make sense, from the information we have it wouldn't make sense atm
@@KlLLMOCRACY dude did you read my comment?
I literally said it's impossible for the primordial one to work with the second who came,
And that the one who made the gnosises with the primordial one was the 3rd descender themselves, so the 3rd descender choose to die in order to create the gnosises, but I don't believe they're fully dead, rather they're living on in Celestia, in a new body
Maybe the third was so powerful that the winner needed the help of the loser to deal with them. If the third could defeat the one, and then turn around and defeat the other afterwards (or cause enough collateral damage that there wouldn't be a Teyvat left to fight over) they'd both be in danger so they worked together to get rid of the larger threat.
I am sure that the 3rd desender is the other twin, since it remains that he is the same body as the traveler, apart from why Skirk does not mention it, it is because we will see until the last nation in Tartaglia and it will be the plot twist, why It is obvious that it will be the twin, but for some reason she is alive and so it will be like she went back in time (trunks style since another reality is created) or maybe it will be us since first in the beta it says that the celestial order tortures the twin and they have been impaled, and it was rarely changed, I mean if that will be the end that's why one will have to save her so that she doesn't become 'gnosis' I mean our twin is already dead. and it is obvious that zhongli or venti know it, and what is certain is that the tsarina will revive our sister. rather we will use the pieces and win the final battle with the power of our dead twin in the gnosis, revived in some way.
My theory is that the 3rd descender is the sinner and that that his/her body is traped in the purple cristal in caribert quest and that he/she persueded pierro to look for the gnosis because they are the containers for his/her powers which was separated from his/her body by the first and second who came in abattle they had,in which the primordial one got too weak and desapear from celestia and fell into a profound sleep until the traveler (mc)woke up and that is why the second who came stayed in the trone, and one more thing;i think that the archon war was to choose the strongest to each of the elements to guard the gnosis(containers of the third descenders power source)from the people of the abyss 😂ho are trying to bring back the sinner
I think your spot on! I wrote something similar in my comment. To round your theory out a bit, I believe the second descender was Pierro himself who is actually the Dragon King Nibelung (Alberich). This tracks with their mythological references.
There's, hmm... More lore regarding Descenders in Fontaine than what we learn from the Archon Quest... But as you seem to not have mentioned any of it in this video, I guess you haven't encountered it yet
But people might spoil
1:44
The siblings aren't considered descendants since she's traveled Teyvat and completed the cycle, saving her info in Irminsul-making her exempt from descendant status.
Crackpot theory: The Traveler's sibling is really the 3rd descender and the one we talked to is just a fragment of them residing in the Irminsul. From the We Will Be Reunited quest, the twin said that "I have already traveled through this world once. Once you reach the end of your journey as I did, you will see for yourself the true nature of this world." meaning they've already finished their Samsara Cycle, and the reason that they're now registered in the Irminsul as a citizen of this world and we are not is because their fate has been integrated in the system and can be manifested in Leylines.. the branches of Irminsul Tree. Also, the sibling's name if we chose Aether as our Traveler, is Lumine.. meaning to illuminate, just like Lucifer/Samael, the lightbringer. We can assume that they landed on Teyvat to instill knowledge, and the fact that they have a vendetta against Celestia and the Heavenly Principles, aka the Divinity, is akin to Lucifer rebelling against God.
I was afraid some else would connect the dots. As soon as you mentioned the paradise lost set.
I jumped the gun my theory is different.
One RUclipsr Ashikai claims that being a Descender depends on their power of will. That the Abyss twin lacks the will to be a Descender while our traveler does
The third descender is obviously the dragon king neboloung read the dialouge of dendro dragon and the nevevulette's story
pretty confident the archon war was not a war for the purpose of the distribution of the gnosis, but a by product. The goetia names more than likely represent the shards of the primordial one and the war was the 'the shards of the primordial one will consume themselves'
I don't remember where, but I heard a story about a being dismembered and the pieces of that being reunited would revive him
Natlan has a revival/reincarnation theme and is also the last Gnosis to be collected so it seems suspicious to me
5:54
You are the first one i have seen to speak the name "Rukudevata" with this much accuracy
I think the 3rd descender is the abyss sibling. In Genshin we have 3 current instances of an archon not being who they really are ( ei not being the original electro archon, nahida being a “ better branch of rukiadavta” and furnia being a human counter part to focalor.) we also know that information in irminsul, can be changed with instances with nadhia and scara. The only problem with this is the timing but I think it could be solved since we know that in raidens story quest that when we left she was fighting herself for over 500 years, and after we helped her she ended up planting the Sakura tree in the past, the same one that appeared to her after she came back from the archon war. So what I personally believe is that the true abyss twin is dead and they knew they were going to die so they split part of themselves just like Nahida and focalor did , and gave the abyss sibling a certain mission to carry out. Becuz to me it doesn’t make sense why the abyss sibling would see the traveler after not seeing them for so long and being like “ lol bye you haven’t explored the truth of this world yet” doesn’t seem like something a sibling that traveled legit worlds with you would say. Ontop of this it would make sense for the abyss sibling to be a counter part/ split soul to the true sibling becuz nadhia states that the abyss sibling is record to hail from khaenri’ah
When I mentioned nahdia I mostly mean rukadavta I just can’t sleep her name properly but you get the gist of what I’m saying lol
BRO I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING YESTERDAY! 😭
this is genius! I mean if the theory about The Tsaritsa resurrecting the 3rd descender is true and if the 3rd descender is the abyss twin, then maybe we can see a final battle between Phanes against us and our twin at the end.
Pretty nice theory, I especially like the theory the 3rd descender was the Outlander in the Seelie story, now some data from the game that may add to your theories:
- Humanity was created by the Primordial one 400 years after defeating the Dragon sovereigns, and created the sky and Earth "for" the humans. So humanity may have a purpose in the Primordial plans
- After battling the Second, The primordial one "could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world" and they joined forces to make the Gnosis. So teh gnosis and the gods may be a way the Primordial one enforces the authority over teh world after his fight.
Love your video, great work.
The lore designers purposefully giving us information on descenders through fatui intel, I think its valid to assume that fatui have learnt something about the descenders and especially the enigmatic 3rd descender which is what prompted the cryo archon to collect the remains of 3rd descender's power.
My initial idea about why the fatui were collecting the gnosis was that, because they are chess pieces, you need all of them to play (ie. challenge celestia). But now I can’t help but wonder if “the incandescent ode of resurrection” refers to the resurrection of the 3rd descender (with the gnosis).
I got this idea from that video of the head of the fatui playing chess, with some of the pieces being gnoses and others not.
God this is my first time watching your video and your voice caught me off guard, i really thought Lumine was talking lmao
Banger video tho fr
I still personally believe the third descender is the dragon king nibelung. Returned to teyvat after finding the power to rival celestia(the abyss) and all the danger that holds. The dragon king's body holding elemental authorities lines up with the gnosis and lines up with the third descender bringing what appears to be the abyss into teyvat, forcing the nails to be dropped.
Paimon is definitely the third descender. Her small stature and bizarre function is due to her previous form being harvested for the gnosis.
she’s not dead tho
i dont think so because she's still a part of teyvat (she forgot the existence of rukha) meanwhile descenders are supposed to be beings from other worlds with incredible power
going back to the archon quest about how skirk said the gnoses cause devastation and bad omens. it really makes you wonder if the traveler (us) is the reason why the events of some nations happen in the first place. we are a descender and have the same properties of the third descender to absorb elemental energy; so wouldn’t we also have the same thing of being a bad object of omen like skirk said. also what if the plan to collect the gnoses is to shape reality of teyvat, aster did say that two gnoses combined was able to change the fate of something in irminsul, imagine the power of all the gnoses combined. you. could be able to shape reality in a sense.
Descenders were always fated to usurp the throne from Teyvat's current ruler.
Though judging from Neuvilette's lines, the Second managed to somehow trick the Third by making them believe that making their body split into pieces of gnoses is the best solution for them both.
Thus, the second was able to change his fate from being usurped, and the first being to bring down two of his fellow descenders.
With the database of the Irminsul in his hands, and the omnipotence Celestia provides he is near to impossible to be brought down unless someone who is on par with his power through ascension shakes the divine principles, his rule shall reign eternal.
7:45 this isnt that far fetched. It fits egyptian mythology on Osirias whose body was cut into pieces. Seramis, which might parallel sophia also looked to getting all the pieces back to “bring that one back from the afterlife”
That said its also not far fetched cause it gives actual motive to what might the tsarista be doing? Why are the fatui gathering all the gnosises?
So Celestia just steals something from everyone I see:
- Stole the power of the dragon sovereigns
- Stole Teyvat from the Vishaps and dragons
- Stole(?) the power of the 3rd descender to make the gnosis (we aren't really sure if the 3rd descender consented to being used for the gnosis)
- There's a theory that they also stole the 4 shades, they might have originally been their own entities
What if what is happening with the 3rd Descender is similar to Typhon in Greek mythology?
Zeus (the Heavenly Principles) defeated him (3rd Descender), but because he was immortal, he chopped him into pieces (Gnoses) and threw them into Tartarus (Teyvat) which was guarded by the Hecatoncheires (Archons).
I don't mean to suggest that the 3rd Descender is immortal, but that there might be something unique about him that resulted in what I described above.
i heard a theory that says that dainsleif is the third descender and it makes a lot of sense, especially when we consider that in teyvat prologue dainsleif is planning to face the traveler at the end of his journey after he gets his full power and nobody can come fight a descender other than another descender
Do you remember abiut the quest is sumeru in which the traveller travel back time and he/she saw in sumeru a purple or some wha evil trapoed inside which the abyss order was born?? He said he was a sinner, thats why he was lock up, and he has no body ...so my theory is that he was the 3rd descender who was punish because of a certain sin and his body was became a gnosis which tsaritsa was stealing it to the other gods, then this tsaritsa was the god of love, the 3rd descender migth be a lover os tsaritsa but he probably broke some taboo thats why he was lock up and his body turn inti gnosis, then tsaritsa probably broke and became as cold as ice... Then this 3rd descender probably leading the abyss order along traveller twin.
idk if youll read this but i just wanted to thank you for pronouncing Rukkhadevata properly
The third descender is Seele, the cryo archon (bronya), who is also the god of love, trying to revive her lover 😂😂
Also to keep in mind that people from beond the fernment are only decenders if they have the power to change the world. Its said in one of the long fountain world quest lines (One of the pages from the many quest lines regarding the Narzissenkreuz Ordo)
Remains can also mean something left behind so it could be that the 3rd descender created the gnosis and left them behind not his their actual body, skirk said they often have trouble communicating with humans so this could one of those times.
Ajax or aias, check the narzissenkreuz note. it mentioned that he is able to rival the world
Still cant believe we know nothing about Natlan beside having good hot spring😂
so everything is about to change if Dottore burns down Irminsul which I think is going to happen really really soon. The image with Dottore burning down a tree has not yet happened and it is not likely that they made that scene without meaning. If successful people in Theyvat should be able to alter their own fate however Irminsul is responsible for the upholding of the world, so I don't really know what happens if he burns it down. If anything awakens the Heavenly Principles a.k.a the descenders it would be that. Him burning down another random tree seems less likely, but it is of course possible.
I thought the gnosis was just used to mint mora? So that Zhongli or "Morax" himself doesn't have to be in the golden house 24/7?
I thought Zhongli wasn't making mora anymore so as to not absolutely wreck the economy.
It kinda reminds me of ancient Egypt practises of mummifying and putting organs in jars. Perhaps the gnosis are like organs in a jar, and the rest of the body is somewhere... sealed... redy to be dug up....
Beside everything in this video, I also have something in my mind after finishing fontaine archon quest. Come to think of it, could it be that the all devouring narwhal is a kind of "honkai"?😨
Um the first descender is the primodial one aka paimon, the second descender fought paimon ad stole her power then tossed her into the sea, the second descender gave the third descender the gnosis and the fourth descender is the traveler
Maybe it's too exaggerated but in the old genshin intro, the one from the beta. In one part you can see something like the twin falling and then seven circles appear that can symbolize the seven gnoses. This could also explain that by becoming part of the twin in the seven gnoses, the twin is considered part of teyvat, although I don't know.
Great video as always!
If you read Neuvillette's char stories, the answer as to why the gnoses was created is there. He really got lots of lore bombs.
Only after playing star rail i could see, Quantum and imaginary, we glow Gold, imaginary, and sibling uses Quantum, abyss
I really like your points so consider Paimon to be the third descender, stripped of her power and cut into gnosis but beeing summoned in her natural form wich is why she never really "connects" to teyvat by walking. Also from the beginning she trys to lecture us but fails most of the time wich would also be prove of her nature to bring wisdom but beeing stripped of her power and even knowledge. Now also consider us beeing summoned into an existing person of teyvat to cloak our descending like furina cloaked not really beeing the hydro archon to fullfill the fate wich was cast on the people of fontain but to descive the heavenly principles. This would also explain why our sibling is from teyvat but we are not and have false memorys. Yes our sibling was shoked to see us but did not weaver any moment to still pursue it's quest wich means our sibling either choose a fate on teyvat wich created a bond that made him or her from teyvat or our sibling was never a descender in the first place and we just took over his or her sibling but we were summoned by will to challange the heavenly principles wich are either the first descender or something even higher but i guess the first. So OUR quest to all of teyvat is just to repower paimon in the end. Also we kinda gave skittish answers about gnosis but for paimon they were always something precious she even can't belive Neuvilette just gave it away but since he is an elemental dragon in the first place he isn't interested in this power since his own once rivaled the power of a descender so much it took two and a third to keep him in check and maybe he is the best hint for why fighting the elemental dragons in the first place and creating archons is a thing. Because dragons do not understand humans even though they are able to feel like humans and are able to understand humans if they can relate but i guess dragons werent always that wise so maybe Paimon was sent to give elemental dragons the wisdom to understand humans but the first and second descender had other plans wich they maybe cloaked in human desires but this would lead to the heavenly principles not beeing a descender but also would explain why the heavenly principles are reffering to the arrogance of mankind even though descenders seem to be the reason for constantly changing teyvats fate and thus messing up everything and even creating the abyss wich seems not to be of teyvat in the first place. But those are just guesses maybe some point you in the right direction but paimoin beeing the third descender and beeing stripped of her powers makes hell a lot of sense to me after your video even though i am just into this for three months still finished fontain mainstory a week ago 😅
In a rare divergence from my "blame Alice for everything" thoery; I'm instead going with the idea that the abyss twin might actually be in some way the spirit of the third descender. Bound to and integrated into irminsol via the gnosis.
I think this war of vangence is not the war with the Second who came but a different war after when the dragon king returns, the very reason for the seelies existence was to guide the Savage humans, but in the time of phanes the couldn't be savages, so i think they become savages after the war with the Second who came and then the seelies were created
I think the other twin is the 3rd descender and that. The twin descended first before the archon war or during the archon war since time works differently in celestia which could explain why the archons and that the other twin's divinity has been taken by the heavenly principle, stored in the gnosis which made the other twin absorb abyssal energy which made the other twin became a residence of teyvat.
Idk just a fun plot and theory if that was the case
Makes me think that the 3rd descender is the outlander who married the Seelie, and that the Tsaritsa is that Seelie, trying to bring back her loved one.
You talked about angels a long time ago and I loved that theory. Here:
I'll give you all a headcanon ranking of the angels.
The highest, mid, and lowest ranking are in order.
Highest Order: Middle Order Lower Order:
- Seraphim = The Twin and Sibling - Dominions = The Seven Sovereigns - Principalities = The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles
- Cherubim = The Primordial One - Virtues = The Four Shining Shades - Archangels = The Seven Archons
- Thrones = The Second who Came - Powers = The Heavenly Principles - Angels = Allogenes
I'll add that there could be there could be more than Four Shining Shades.
Because if they are the Virtues that means there would be Seven of them in total.
Their called the Seven Heavenly Virtues consisting of the Four Cardinal Virtues and Three Theological Virtues. THREE???
Where have we seen Three menacing individuals in the game? No... In the Manga when someone asked Barbatos about Celestia.
(There is a possibility that these Three menacing individuals and the Three Shades who went with the Primordial One are one of the same.)
(They probably came back corrupted.)
Everyone on this list are Fallen Angels except the Twins.
I'm not sure but I thought the third descender and first descender created the Gnosis, The Third Descender sacrifice himself.
the second who came, the second descender and "the one who came after" arent't necessarily the same person
In Fontain archon quest, Traveler had dreams of Child while carrying his Vision. So what will happen if the Traveler gets his hands on a gnosis for extended period.
That would be so cool to see. Now i want it.
You are the first Genshin content creator who actually said Rukkhadevata correctly. The last part is called Devata (देवता), which means God. Thank you so so much Aster!!
And what does the first part "Rukkha" mean?
Wasn't it explained in the Ordo story quest that
"People who's will rivals the world are the descenders"?
I thought it pretty much explained why the other sibling isn't a descender
i think the sinner from the caribert story is leftover remains of the third descender
My theory is that our twin is the third descender and he shed the gnoses joining the abyss because our brother doesn't posses an element so perhaps he gave his elements away being in the abyss would mean Celestia,s gaze can,t reach him so to the gods he,s dead
The abyss was also doing an operation with the loom of fate which is still suspicious to me like why did they want to change fate perhaps
That being said, I want to believe that every member of the Hexenzirkles are actually game developers
I think the Tsaritsa just wants to play some chess.
natlan final gnosis and is the region which says on the trailer resurrection but ressurection of whom
WAIT IF THE TSARITSA IS TRYING TO GATHER THE GNOSIS TO REVIVE THE THIRD THAT MEANS THAT HER DEAD HUSBAND IS THE 3RD (it's confirmed he's a guy buy skirk) AM I RIGHT??
Skirk said the Gnoses are like god's curse... maybe the remains of the Third Descender is dangerous like dead gods' remains. If so, the true reason behind creation of the Gnoses might be “contain the descender's remains safely.”
Did the gnoses birth the Archon War? Or were the gnoses just the end result?
A lot of people seem to just assume that the Archon War was fought *because* of the gnoses, but we don't really know for a fact that they are what TRIGGERED it... only that they were the prize Celestia offered to the victors.
And if fighting over the gnoses was entirely the PURPOSE of the Archon War, set in motion by Celestia... (I dunno, threatening the gods or something...), then WHY did Celestia set it in motion when they did?
Remember that Teyvat did have a time period where no gods walked the land, and that humanity's only connection to Celestia was the heavenly envoys (possibly seelie), which we were recently REMINDED OF in Chenyu Vale... and at the same time, the story spoke of the Archon War to remind us THAT happened. So why was Celestia content to leave the land godless before, but not later? What changed? Why is the post-Fontaine story bringing these story elements up all over again?
It seems pretty solid to me that the Primordial One was too weak to continue to control Teyvat's systems, and thus the gnoses were created to re-establish that order, (as Neuvilette told us). We see this some in Chenyu Vale - the mists starting to retake the land, the soil and water changing so that the tea is ruining, an adeptus had to use their power to fix it.... because the natural order was taking over the area. But again, wouldn't that have been a problem before? When no gods walked the land? What changed?
I feel like the reason Chenyu Vale brought up the Archon War and the loss of the heavenly envoys (and even made a subtle reference to the moon sisters via a certain set of seelie) is that the "secret" we will learn in Natlan will have a LOT to do with the Archon War and the Third Descender's identity.
Random thought that could be related....
What if all the "demon gods" that we know of... are actually the Seelie? If demons are fallen angels and the seelie are Genshin's "angels" as heavenly envoys, and the seelie were losing their forms because of the curse placed on them, then MAAAAYBEEEE the "gods" needed gnoses to retain their forms? We know that the Goddess of Flowers was a seelie who had been "exiled from the heavens" when she met King Deshret and became worshiped as a goddess by their people.
...In fact, what if the curse placed on the seelie was the erosion mentioned by Zhongli?
This could ALSO explain why all the Archons we've encountered seem to be AGAINST Celestia.
ASTER DROPPED ANOTHER LORE VIDEO NOW DAY IS WAY MUCH BETTE4
My biggest issue with the whole ‘the Tsaritsa is gonna revive the third descender’ theory is how would she even know what the gnoses really are. Is someone in the Fatui a descender and if not, how would they even have discovered this in the first place considering it was Skirk who told us. It’s entirely possible that she wasn’t even born when the gnoses were created.
Of course we have no way of knowing at this point, but it’s really interesting to think about any other reason she could have for collecting the gnoses beyond reviving someone.
just like how skirk know about it, Tsaritsa can know about it the same way.
@@mememon5010 Certainly possible but it doesn't really give her a motive for reviving the 3rd Descender either.
The fatui only need 1 more gnosis I assume cryo would just give hers when the time came as it's her plan
It's much more likely that the phanes made the gnosises NOT with the second who came,( because everything about them makes ot impossible that phanes would ever work with them) BUT rather with the third descender themselves, the third descender could have sacrificed themselves to create the gnosises, or they're alive in Celestia but in a different body from their original one that was used to create the gnosises,
It would be Hella weird if it's the first and the second working together, and wouldn't make sense at all
“To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together.” - Neuvis friendship 6 story “Visions”, so it’s basically canon that it’s the case
@@Msyu-Vanrouge the case that what?
I have an odd theory…
What if the third descender is nibelung?
It’s said that nibelung searched for power beyond the skies to seek revenge with the heavenly principles. He then returned to teyvat but the otherworldly (abyss) powers made him unrecognizable. He’s technically of teyvat origin but his desire for revenge might be a will as strong as the world itself.
How about the second? I think it’s the seed or an entity that later became irminsul and the ley line web. Possibly killed as well by the heavenly principles to harvest their power. And somehow I think they gave their lives willingly or it’s not too big of a deal for Heavenly Principles. And the war with “The Second who Came” is actually with the third. Maybe the first and the second came together, seen as one arrival but of different origins. The fatui counted them separately nonetheless.
The revival of the third descender for me makes a lot of sense if what they’re looking for the gnoses only, not the powers within it. Nibelung’s power is within the casing after all, the ancient authority are just bonuses. It’s quite an irony that the gnosis might be traced with abyssal powers. With nibelung on Tsaritsa’s side, celestia will definitely have a hard time to fight them off again.
Let's gooo, more lore! ❤
With regards to why the gnoses were given to archons as rewards, the answer is simple- to make them the governing and ONLY entity to fully control the elemental powers. We know the current archons were not the gods of elements, but of completely different things(freedom, contracts, eternity, knowledge and justice), however to get the "ultimate" power of element manipulation, they had to win the archon war. And the first one who successfully manipulated all the elements at their will(long before current or former archons were even born) was the Third Descender. This went against the ideals of Celestia and/or Heavenly Principles and thus, they ordered the first two descenders to subjugate the Third, and strip them off their elemental powers. They were a threat because I assume they learnt how to use those elemental powers from the Sovereigns themselves, who had already lost their divinity in the war against the First Descender. And this knowledge was called "the forbidden knowledge" thereafter. If the Third Descender was left unregulated, they had the potential of even surpassing the original Sovereigns, and may even had created a new element by themselves. After getting their powers, Celestia kept it for a long, long time before deciding them to give away to the best(not necessarily the strongest) gods who could propel humanity forwards.
The traveler is called the Fourth Descender because we can use all the elemental powers like the Third. The reason why our sibling is not a descender is because presumably they lack the ability of element manipulation, hence they sought out the powers "from beyond", aka Abyssal power. We also know from the Unfinished Comedy world quests that according to ancient Fontainian researchers, a Descender is a being who possess the will to change the entire fate of the world. That also implies not every Outlander is a Descender, and maybe not every Descender needs to be an Outlander.
Tsaritsa is collecting all the gnoses because she wants to make herself(or someone else) the Fifth Descender, and maybe create an element of her own(most probably "Light" element) that can counter the powers of Abyss, who have the "Dark" element. But since the creation of such a thing is a sin, Celestia and Heavenly Principles are ready to subjugate her as well. This is her last all out war against both Celestia and Abyss that will either liberate Tevyat, or either/both of Celestia and Abyss will rule over it for eternity.
When you were describing the third descender, call me crazy, but I could only think of one thing
... Guizhong???
What if rhinedottir is (related) to the third descender? The themes of wisdom, poison and sin are all quite present in what liitle info we have about her. Also her mention by skirk in the new archon quest.
In my headcanon, present rhinedottir is a reincarntaion of the 3rd descender, maybe a part of their body that seaked humanity. When she started growing her power of Khemia, Celestia was afraid of the 3rd descender coming back and hoped for destroying them before it was too late. Thoughts?
Imagine how cool it would be if hoyo decided to make a prequel of genshin of playing as the other twin we didn’t chose and get to see what really happened in khaenri'ah
Hmmm interesting but I’m very convinced about zhongli through this theory video by this channel “wei” see their zhongli identity theory and I’d love to see you talk about it too! It’s one of the theories which is very believable and has more than enough Evidence, since you talk about how this descender may still be alive but not at its full power supports zhongli too?
Tsaritsa ; I've collected all seven gnosis, 3rd desender obliterate 😂
aether anchors
human emotions
celestia gain a big boon from ascended vision bearers (fruits rip for the picking)
I mean that vision was described with the eye of a god and gnosis with the heart of a god. So the seven Gnosis are the heart of the 3rd Decender in 7 parts?
I thought Nahida said the second descender was the unknown god or am I imagining things
Liben is the third descender
Considering the traveler isn't affected by Tevyat laws, maybe they're trying to change fate.
Now I'm wondering if Alice is the 3rd decender, but the "buisness" she's ben attending to is actually the red herring. What if Alice is currently formless, like a soul with no body, able to contact her friends and family through her consciousness (which we have clearly seen is possible) and the Gnosis are the remains of her physical body.
Maybe the third descender was the lover of Tsaritsa. That's why she's collecting the gnosis to oppose celestia.
Ok, but anyone else a bit confused by the timeline of things?
From what I understand, the first descender took over teyvat first, and to do that, had to get the authorities of the dragon sovereigns.
So why do the gnosis have the dragon authority in them? Did Celestia have them originally stored in the seven thrones, which thanks to Fontaine, have been proven to be more than just a metaphor.
Why is this a problem? Because the Gnosis are from the third descender, meaning that the gnosis could only have been made after the dragon authorities had already been seized. Like, what was Celestia doing with the authorities before the gnosis?
Also, why does the traveler have similar properties to a gnosis, like element adaptability and the conversion of “faith” into power(the Liyue nuke attack where the main characters surrounded traveler and the traveler got a golden glow, and the fight against shogun where the wishes of the people powered up the traveler)? Is the third descender another one of the traveler’s kind? In that case, who would they be? Maybe the sibling? But that muddies the timeline even further.
My theory: The 3rd decender fought the 2nd alongside Phanes, the 1st, and then they sacrificed themselves so Phanes could create the Gnosis and create a new world order. Neuvilette's stories say that the 1st created the Gnosis alongside "the one who came after", and unless this is some translation error, "came after" doesn't NECESSARILY mean the one immediately after, aka the 2nd, I think it refers to the 3rd. It makes no sense that the 1st and 2nd waged WAR and then worked together later to create the Gnosis out of nowhere. So yeah, I think the 3rd died willingly to create the Gnosis.
The new "order" stabilished with the Gnosis is the whole "Vision" system, and the Gnosis are the "keys" to manipulate that system. They are NOT the "Elemental Authority", mind you, its pretty clear the Archons kept their powers even AFTER giving their Gnosis, people still make this mistake.
The Tsaritza wants the Gnosis because she wants to either "change" the Vision system, or abolish it altogether. I think there is some horrifying truth behind the whole Vision granting system that she knows of, maybe its actually a curse upon humanity or something, and she wants to end it.
OH WAIT in the new Narzissenkreuz quest there are notes of René where he says that "to gain a Vision is to tie oneself to the fate of the world", so maybe the Visions are how the Heavenly Principles control the "fate" of people in Teyvat? No wonder only the people with the "strongest wills" are granted Visions! Because they're the ones more likely to become a threat to Celestia!
Your theory is flawed in thinking that "the one who came after" isn't the Second Throne. It's pretty ilogical to refer to the 3rd as “ *the* one who came after”, as well as the fact that Phanes used help from anoher Descender to make the Gnoses with the remains of the Third; meaning that when they were being created by two Descenders, the Third was already deceased.
Also, though as of now it doesn't make that much sense, just think about it this way: Both the 1st and the 2nd wanted to rule over Teyvat, but since the 3rd introduced Forbidden Knowledge, it was a threat to both's objectives. Striking truce to deal with the 3rd and use its powers to "cure" Teyvat is pretty much their only option; they're deities, not numbskulls.
It could also been that, after taking a fat L, the Second Descender was subdued/took a "second-in-command" position to at least have some power over Teyvat. After all, it's safe to say that after the war, it couldn't go back to look for another planet to rule over.
Also and again, it's not like they say "one who came after", but it's " *_the_* one who came after", using a word like "the" pretty much solidifies that it's the Second Throne.
Lastly, "Second Throne", pretty much a title of power in a hierarchy of Descenders. I really think that it just decided to join Phanes, at least for the time being.
Or the 1st took a fat L, which is more likely considering it just got out of a huge war. @@KyzenEX
@@AndrewsMobs Really doubt that the Heavenly Principles lost, since yk, the Sustainer is still there, the Shadows still alive, and Teyvat still working as per their original design...
I wonder if the 3rd Descender is … the Seelie Race?
I don’t remember where I heard this, so I could be wrong, but I believe there were Kings amongst the Seelie Race? If so, then perhaps the Gnoses were crafted from their remains. If not, then perhaps certain individuals from the Seelie Race threatened the Heavenly Principles, and their remains were used.
Before the Seelie Fall, the Seelie Race guided humanity and were regarded as a divine race. However, if the humans were made from Phanes, then … where did the Seelies come from? I believe that they came from another world as well, possibly coming to Teyvat after Phanes took over it. However, I don’t think they were considered as Descenders at that moment, but later, right after their Fall. (Just to clarify, the 3rd Descender isn’t necessarily the Seelie Race entirely, but possibly individuals that originated from the Seelie Race.)
When Nabu Malikata fell into Sumeru, and befriended King Deshret, he afterwards was theorized to have been offered a Gnosis. If this theory is true, then the Gnoses were crafted after the Seelie Fall.
Now the reason why I believe it was several individuals is due to there being Seven Gnoses (as far as we know), and I’m under the slight suspicion that the Gnoses are in actuality, a Seelies Court.
We know from Electro Seelies that the Seelies Court can have their shape altered to a severe amount. And we know from Warming Seelies and Luminous Seelies from Dragonspine and the Chasm, that it is in a Seelies core nature to provide what is needed by others. And the Heavenly Principles needed a container for the Sovereigns Authority, this need created the Thrones, while the Courts would’ve been created into Chess Pieces. This would indicate that the design of the Gnoses are significant to the Seelies, not the HPs, what this significance is exactly, I do not know. Perhaps it’s to signify that the Seelies guide the humans the same way a Chess Player guides the Chess Pieces?
There are a lot of plot holes in this theory of mine, I know. But I’m still going to have a good time supporting it until proven otherwise.
My current goofy theory is that the third descender is what Nibelung brought when he came back to teyvat by mistake or not.
Maybe when Nibelung left teyvat, his status changed from native to descender which qualified him to become the "second who came" and then returned to teyvat with whatever power and fought the primordial one.
But during the conflict, the third descender being something truly alien did something to the world that both Nibelung and the primordial one couldn't accept.
So they had a cease fire or made an alliance, killed the 3d one and made the gnosis out of it.
But then again all of this depends on a old ass dragon in middle of desert.