Update: My final fix for this toilet was to buy a Kohler. I suspected the issues might be related to my old sewage line, but it wasn't. The new toilet flushes everything every time, while this one was still a mess.
I have two Kohlers and I leave cleaning materials out if we have guests. Don't want them to be embarrassed. Bought a TOTO for our other bathroom. That one works really good. No more Kohler or American Standards in our homes.
Lift the main tank lid off. YOU SEE THE DRAIN TUBE WHERE THE BLACK HOSE POURS INTO, PULL OUT THE HOSE - INSTALL A ONE INCH PVC WHITE COUPLER TO TOP OF THE ONE INCH TUBE TO RAISE WATER LEVEL. Now use a screw driver and tighten- screw the adjuster all the way down and the water in tank will rise up and give you more volume of water to flush. place the black hose into the PVC tube - then get a powerful water flush you will be happy with! I DID THIS TO MINE AND NOW IT IS ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL!! Powerful flush........
Voila! My super flush is back. I took the slack out of the chain as the video suggested. I am like a kid again, excited for every opportunity I get to flush the. toilet. The simple things in life. Thanks Jon
2020 or newer Champion 4s come with a green dome that is all one piece, requiring you to turn entire green dome counter clockwise while holding the rod underneath. It is a difficult position and you feel like you might break the rod. Once you hear it click/crack it will unscrew providing access to a locking ring that then frees the white seal to replace. I just received these parts via one day fed ex from American Standard directly. The diagram that comes with the new seal doesn’t readily show this unlocking process, but it makes sense once you do it. Also rep from Amer Std mentioned that the newest dome is difficult enough that they might becoming out with yet another flush valve still working to correct the original challenges with the blue and now white seals. Pretty frustrating but appears Standard is aware and working on it.
Thanks. I'm a bit afraid to try it as I may break it - I wish someone had a video with the newer model - I've only had this 1.5 years and already having this issue.
Thanks for your time Jon. I have this design too, the 4215A model. When I opened the tank lid I immediately noted the amount of water that tall tower limits the flush to - I bet its is like 1 gallon tops, above the tower overflow. I am no expert at fluid dynamics and I see the tower raising the height at which the water has to fall and maybe that is where the velocity is helped, but dang, our systems way after the flush need water flow to make things drain - like thru your pipes all the way to the street. These low flow toilets have been crap since day 1 of the mandate the US pushed down to the makers. Now I flush 3 times, its a mandate in my house. I would like to replace that whole thing with a regular valve that flushed the whole tank of water, now that would be a great experiment.
Shawn, replace that flush valve with a Korky 3-inch flush valve and flapper. It will allow you to use more of the water in the tank and you will have a better flush.
I fought with my Champion lV on and off for a couple years. I finally stumbled onto what was causing weak flushes. It turned out the tank top was such a perfect fit over the tank that it was not allowing air to fill the tank as fast as the flush system was trying to empty the water. I put a small plastic wiring harness clamp on the top edge of the tank and voila! You can use anything that gives a bit a a gap between the tank and its top. I have heard that newer tanks are notched just for this reason.
@@TK-jc9by It's just a clamp for securing an electrical wiring harness. I chose it because it was handy and it won't rust. Being springy, it holds itself in place. For a while, I used one of those big, black paper clips. You can use anything you have handy. I'm assuming you proved to yourself that you are having flush problems for the same reason I was. If you're not sure, just take the tank top off to see if it flushes normally. Good luck!
These toilets have 2 areas that get water to the bowl. Of course from top of bowl that causes spin but also there is a 50cent size hole in bottom of bowl near the front that also is connected to the tank. Mine was clogged with crystals and wasn’t able to flush correctly. Drain ur bowl , get some type of round wire brush that will fit lengthwise and clean out this port. It is also the port where your tube fills bowl after flush. I’m not familiar with the terminology with toilets but trust me this might fix your flushing problem
I had my doubts on this but cleaning this port improved my flush the most. I have hard water and scale built up in there. I also tightened the chain by bending the metal toilet handle up, and put an extension on the overflow to fill the tank a bit more. Lastly I raised the lid in the back slightly to let a little more air in
After adjusting the chain again, I think there is an easier way. There are 2 holes to reinsert the pin, but there are also two orientations. Towards you and away from you. Just move the pin to the hole and orientation that gives the least slack. This is much easier than opening the ball holder.
It is so unfortunate that we cannot get good reliable products these days, but I understand why. GREED! This is intentional. Why would a mechanism (the toilet) that is working one day all of a sudden stop functioning properly when all of the components still appear to be working? This should not not be that complicated. The formula is WATER - PRESSURE - A STOPPER - and a LEVER with a chain. Why is this flush inconsistent? Hmmmm? GREED!
Holding it down always works. The prob is that the seal part won't float and falls back over the outlet before the available water goes through - which becomes a short flush. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Short flush work for liquid waste, but not necessarily for solid waste (some toilets have two buttons for short and longer flushes. AS uses the hold longer approach). Only two solutions: hold it down for a slow 2 count whenever you're dealing with solid waste, or find a third party flush valve that floats like the pre-water saver toilets did
I found that the flapper wasn’t sitting properly on the drain. I went in and adjusted the chain. In the process I discovered that the centering pin was not attached to the flapper. I managed to get it threaded and now my toilet is working correctly. My assumption is that the installer didn’t properly tighten the centering pin and after a week of use it worked loose….
What do I do if my screw off broke, so I went to Lowes and bought the entire new valve. The problem is within a week or so, the water started leaking through the washer and the toilet every fills up each time it happens. The new valve didn't come with a "screw on top". It's all one piece. So I can't even take the tank off again and replace the washer.
Letting the tank fill higher than 1/2 inch below top of tube is not up to building code regulations. If you have a water damage incident and this is the cause, insurance company can deny claim
I shortened the chain in mine and still have to hold down the handle to get a proper flush. My toilet is a 1.28 gal flush and its a piece of crap. No pun intended. I emailed Champion two weeks ago and they never got back to me. The battle goes on. I have two of these toilets and they both do the same exact thing. Called a plumber, he came in and he said that the flush valve is an issue this this type of toilet.
Thanks for the video. I have the same problem with mine, less than 6 months and issues began. I actually did what you suggest but still have intermittent weak flushes. I think the chain is kinking at the base and affecting tension. I'll get back in there and take out all remaining slack.
Your problem might be that the black hose that's fills the bowl when you flush it might be very low, it starts to suck up the water from the tank into the bowl very slowly, that was the problem that I had, and it took a long time to figure out, try to raise up the hose as high as you can, raise up the clip that holds the hose into the overflow tube, that solved my problem
You know sometimes I get bad flushes too! I suspect that the air in the tank creates enough of a vacuum to prevent the water from escaping at its max velocity. I think this because with the bowl off it's always good, with the lid on, sometimes not.
I just got mine installed today and the plumber just said you have to hold it down to get a max flush. Very disappointed, this toilet had good reviews. The chain is taunt and hose is up. Its a bummer.
I thought these toilets had two levels of flush. A quick press of the lever for liquid waste. For solid waste, you simply hold the lever down a little longer!
Toilet manufacture are trying so hard to meet new water saving toilet requirements. California is now at 1.28 gal. We have a replacement valve for Champion 4.
Helpful, but I cannot figure out how to shorten chain because video does not show you actually doing it. Don't understand what I'm supposed to do with flathead screwdriver etc.
Yes, sorry. I was just shooting this with an iPhone. There is a kind of "cup" that holds the ball, you can make it expand by using a flathead, then get the ball out. Once you put another ball into the cup so that the chain is nice and tight. You can use pliers to cramp it back down.
In case you are still waiting for an answer, you need to use a small flat point screwdriver and carefully open up the slot the chain is held by. Using caution by opening the slot gradually, the chain will slip through the opening and you will be able to adjust it. I would recommend adjusting it one ball at a time and insert the pin and test the amount of travel. I hope this helps.
I’m not happy with this 200 dollar toilet. A quick pull makes the toilet practically choke it sounds like. The flapper closes too soon. However, sometimes when I flush I get the nice jet sound of a lot of pressure and a good flush, and other t8mes even after holding down the lever it’s still a weak flush. This thing truly is garbage. What a waste of money. I’ve adjusted my chain like yours and did a high tank fill like yours and it still sucks. Another guy had a video where he added to the fill pipe to get more water inside the tank, but 8 realized that doesn’t work with the flush master valve in it because it’s already maxed out to the fill right at the top of the tube and can’t fill any more....ugh!
Try "soaking" bowl and throat in bleach overnight. Flush toilet and let bowl fill completely. Poor a quart of water into bowl slowly, just to make sure bowl is completely full. Pour one cup of bleach in bowl and let sit overnight. The bleach will clean parts of toilet you can't see after the first bend. Slime can build up here and slow the water.
Cadet 3 better jon many folks have much chlorine in water eats ring around base also if got heavy load u can hold flopper up vs a preset up dn on tower setup !
Pretty much everything about this video is exactly wrong. A tight chain didn't fix his problem. The fact that his water level is 2 inches out of compliance with any United States County likely is giving him the strong flush. He also didn't install the Champion correctly, the intake pipe is 100 degrees off. Also you don't really need pliers to adjust the chain length, you simply align the angle of the metal part attaching to the beads and give it a pull if removing, or a push if reattaching. Your chain didn't just extend or shorten on it's own after a year, so your theory about what fixed it is completely beyond any logic. YOU CHANGED SOMETHING ELSE. I have one that has no slack in the chain, but still has a weak flush because my water level is now 1.5 inches lower (but within code) than my last one thanks to a complete unwelcome redesign of Fluidmaster fill valves recently, they are just shorter now. The way to work around it is to hold the flush level down for a second, not just give it an instantaneous push.
same brand same toilet - had 3 different plumbers try to fix mine..TRUST ME, just go buy a Kohler, youll be much happier. These American Standard toilets are 110% pure trash
We love your video here at NuFlush, we will send you any toilet part we make and sell on our website "free" to test if you do a video. nuflush.com "We make toilets flush better" Ron
Hi Jon, the first item I would like to send you is our Champion 4 Repair Kit. This is an easier fix for folks that don't want to take there toilet apart. Send me your address and we will send it out. If video is half as good as the one I just watched, we would like to do more with you. We only do an explanation video's of our different Toilet parts. We do have video's on our NuFlush youtube channel. We don't have one on our Champion 4 parts solution yet. Ron @ NuFlush 5195 Marshall Street Arvada, Co. 80002 303-278-8067 www.nuflush.com ron@nuflush.com
@@joneclegg Hi Jon, go to our website www.nuflush.com , pick out a product you would like to test and we will send it to you. don't pay for it but send me a note so I can send it to you. Ron
@@NuFlush1 hi, I’m curious. What is the repair kit? Does it make the flush any better without having to replace the entire flapper and take the tank off? Mine is brand new and the flush is so disappointing.
Update: My final fix for this toilet was to buy a Kohler. I suspected the issues might be related to my old sewage line, but it wasn't. The new toilet flushes everything every time, while this one was still a mess.
theres a video on here where he adds a 1" pvc coupling to the fill tube, which allows more water to fill the tank, thus providing stronger flush
Kholer jons are terrible and no water in bowl so , if u plan on #2 get a toilet brush s#i% on porclin
Have three brand new ones in my house same exact issue.
Which Kohler model did you buy, and are you happy with it?
I have two Kohlers and I leave cleaning materials out if we have guests. Don't want them to be embarrassed. Bought a TOTO for our other bathroom. That one works really good. No more Kohler or American Standards in our homes.
Thank you for posting this. It took me less than five minutes to restore my toilet to proper operation again.
Lift the main tank lid off. YOU SEE THE DRAIN TUBE WHERE THE BLACK HOSE POURS INTO, PULL OUT THE HOSE - INSTALL A ONE INCH PVC WHITE COUPLER TO TOP OF THE ONE INCH TUBE TO RAISE WATER LEVEL. Now use a screw driver and tighten- screw the adjuster all the way down and the water in tank will rise up and give you more volume of water to flush. place the black hose into the PVC tube - then get a powerful water flush you will be happy with! I DID THIS TO MINE AND NOW IT IS ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL!! Powerful flush........
Voila! My super flush is back. I took the slack out of the chain as the video suggested. I am like a kid again, excited for every opportunity I get to flush the. toilet. The simple things in life.
Thanks Jon
Thanks man. This is super helpful. Going to try this now.
2020 or newer Champion 4s come with a green dome that is all one piece, requiring you to turn entire green dome counter clockwise while holding the rod underneath. It is a difficult position and you feel like you might break the rod. Once you hear it click/crack it will unscrew providing access to a locking ring that then frees the white seal to replace. I just received these parts via one day fed ex from American Standard directly. The diagram that comes with the new seal doesn’t readily show this unlocking process, but it makes sense once you do it. Also rep from Amer Std mentioned that the newest dome is difficult enough that they might becoming out with yet another flush valve still working to correct the original challenges with the blue and now white seals. Pretty frustrating but appears Standard is aware and working on it.
Thanks. I'm a bit afraid to try it as I may break it - I wish someone had a video with the newer model - I've only had this 1.5 years and already having this issue.
I had same issue with AS 4215A I installed, you are first person to explain replacement & also no instructions..Thanks
Thanks for your time Jon. I have this design too, the 4215A model. When I opened the tank lid I immediately noted the amount of water that tall tower limits the flush to - I bet its is like 1 gallon tops, above the tower overflow. I am no expert at fluid dynamics and I see the tower raising the height at which the water has to fall and maybe that is where the velocity is helped, but dang, our systems way after the flush need water flow to make things drain - like thru your pipes all the way to the street. These low flow toilets have been crap since day 1 of the mandate the US pushed down to the makers. Now I flush 3 times, its a mandate in my house. I would like to replace that whole thing with a regular valve that flushed the whole tank of water, now that would be a great experiment.
Shawn, replace that flush valve with a Korky 3-inch flush valve and flapper. It will allow you to use more of the water in the tank and you will have a better flush.
I fought with my Champion lV on and off for a couple years. I finally stumbled onto what was causing weak flushes. It turned out the tank top was such a perfect fit over the tank that it was not allowing air to fill the tank as fast as the flush system was trying to empty the water.
I put a small plastic wiring harness clamp on the top edge of the tank and voila! You can use anything that gives a bit a a gap between the tank and its top.
I have heard that newer tanks are notched just for this reason.
I've thought the same thing!! Thank you!!
What is a plastic wiring harness clamp?
@@TK-jc9by
It's just a clamp for securing an electrical wiring harness. I chose it because it was handy and it won't rust. Being springy, it holds itself in place.
For a while, I used one of those big, black paper clips. You can use anything you have handy.
I'm assuming you proved to yourself that you are having flush problems for the same reason I was. If you're not sure, just take the tank top off to see if it flushes normally.
Good luck!
These toilets have 2 areas that get water to the bowl. Of course from top of bowl that causes spin but also there is a 50cent size hole in bottom of bowl near the front that also is connected to the tank. Mine was clogged with crystals and wasn’t able to flush correctly. Drain ur bowl , get some type of round wire brush that will fit lengthwise and clean out this port. It is also the port where your tube fills bowl after flush. I’m not familiar with the terminology with toilets but trust me this might fix your flushing problem
I had my doubts on this but cleaning this port improved my flush the most. I have hard water and scale built up in there. I also tightened the chain by bending the metal toilet handle up, and put an extension on the overflow to fill the tank a bit more. Lastly I raised the lid in the back slightly to let a little more air in
After adjusting the chain again, I think there is an easier way. There are 2 holes to reinsert the pin, but there are also two orientations. Towards you and away from you. Just move the pin to the hole and orientation that gives the least slack. This is much easier than opening the ball holder.
ruclips.net/video/lniD-EUjjf0/видео.html
Best toilet I ever had especially because of the ball holder!
Attach a cork or bouyont device to chain to allow the flapper to stay open longer during the flush.
@@briancizek7136 Woh, great idea!
Thanks - I hope it works!... though I'm sure I'll be sitting on a Kohler soon as well
It is so unfortunate that we cannot get good reliable products these days, but I understand why. GREED! This is intentional.
Why would a mechanism (the toilet) that is working one day all of a sudden stop functioning properly when all of the components still appear to be working?
This should not not be that complicated. The formula is WATER - PRESSURE - A STOPPER - and a LEVER with a chain. Why is this flush inconsistent? Hmmmm? GREED!
Holding it down always works. The prob is that the seal part won't float and falls back over the outlet before the available water goes through - which becomes a short flush. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Short flush work for liquid waste, but not necessarily for solid waste (some toilets have two buttons for short and longer flushes. AS uses the hold longer approach). Only two solutions: hold it down for a slow 2 count whenever you're dealing with solid waste, or find a third party flush valve that floats like the pre-water saver toilets did
I found that the flapper wasn’t sitting properly on the drain. I went in and adjusted the chain. In the process I discovered that the centering pin was not attached to the flapper. I managed to get it threaded and now my toilet is working correctly. My assumption is that the installer didn’t properly tighten the centering pin and after a week of use it worked loose….
What do I do if my screw off broke, so I went to Lowes and bought the entire new valve. The problem is within a week or so, the water started leaking through the washer and the toilet every fills up each time it happens.
The new valve didn't come with a "screw on top". It's all one piece. So I can't even take the tank off again and replace the washer.
Letting the tank fill higher than 1/2 inch below top of tube is not up to building code regulations. If you have a water damage incident and this is the cause, insurance company can deny claim
I shortened the chain in mine and still have to hold down the handle to get a proper flush. My toilet is a 1.28 gal flush and its a piece of crap. No pun intended. I emailed Champion two weeks ago and they never got back to me. The battle goes on. I have two of these toilets and they both do the same exact thing. Called a plumber, he came in and he said that the flush valve is an issue this this type of toilet.
Thanks for the video. I have the same problem with mine, less than 6 months and issues began. I actually did what you suggest but still have intermittent weak flushes. I think the chain is kinking at the base and affecting tension. I'll get back in there and take out all remaining slack.
Your problem might be that the black hose that's fills the bowl when you flush it might be very low, it starts to suck up the water from the tank into the bowl very slowly, that was the problem that I had, and it took a long time to figure out, try to raise up the hose as high as you can, raise up the clip that holds the hose into the overflow tube, that solved my problem
You know sometimes I get bad flushes too! I suspect that the air in the tank creates enough of a vacuum to prevent the water from escaping at its max velocity. I think this because with the bowl off it's always good, with the lid on, sometimes not.
@@joneclegg I think the lid is not the problem, if you look at the lid, it has two openings at the back for the air to enter the tank.
I just got mine installed today and the plumber just said you have to hold it down to get a max flush. Very disappointed, this toilet had good reviews. The chain is taunt and hose is up. Its a bummer.
I bought that mess not knowing what I was getting myself into. I won't recommend that toilet ever
I thought these toilets had two levels of flush. A quick press of the lever for liquid waste. For solid waste, you simply hold the lever down a little longer!
This is exactly the way this toilet works.
That is the exact answer. Not sure why this is such a controversy.. is it really that hard to hold the handle down literally a split second longer.
Home Depot only $6.13 Amazon twice this price.
That system is stupid. I can't believe they make crap like that nowadays. I have to keep a hold it down. Chain adjusting doesn't fix anything.
Toilet manufacture are trying so hard to meet new water saving toilet requirements. California is now at 1.28 gal. We have a replacement valve for Champion 4.
Helpful, but I cannot figure out how to shorten chain because video does not show you actually doing it. Don't understand what I'm supposed to do with flathead screwdriver etc.
Yes, sorry. I was just shooting this with an iPhone. There is a kind of "cup" that holds the ball, you can make it expand by using a flathead, then get the ball out. Once you put another ball into the cup so that the chain is nice and tight. You can use pliers to cramp it back down.
You should also check your Seal because you could have Bubbles on it! That's What I had.
Go to driving range and buy a bucket of balls. Mine works much better after flushing about 3 dozen golf balls. Go, one dozen at a time.
LOL some people may not get the sarcasm...;)
Reminds of the plumbus lol
Do you have a video on how to get the chain to adjust?
In case you are still waiting for an answer, you need to use a small flat point screwdriver and carefully open up the slot the chain is held by. Using caution by opening the slot gradually, the chain will slip through the opening and you will be able to adjust it. I would recommend adjusting it one ball at a time and insert the pin and test the amount of travel.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, but I still can't figure it out Need to see a video.
I’m not happy with this 200 dollar toilet. A quick pull makes the toilet practically choke it sounds like. The flapper closes too soon. However, sometimes when I flush I get the nice jet sound of a lot of pressure and a good flush, and other t8mes even after holding down the lever it’s still a weak flush. This thing truly is garbage. What a waste of money. I’ve adjusted my chain like yours and did a high tank fill like yours and it still sucks. Another guy had a video where he added to the fill pipe to get more water inside the tank, but 8 realized that doesn’t work with the flush master valve in it because it’s already maxed out to the fill right at the top of the tube and can’t fill any more....ugh!
Try "soaking" bowl and throat in bleach overnight. Flush toilet and let bowl fill completely. Poor a quart of water into bowl slowly, just to make sure bowl is completely full. Pour one cup of bleach in bowl and let sit overnight. The bleach will clean parts of toilet you can't see after the first bend. Slime can build up here and slow the water.
Cadet 3 better jon many folks have much chlorine in water eats ring around base also if got heavy load u can hold flopper up vs a preset up dn on tower setup !
Champion toilet not flushing properly as they advertise
ruclips.net/video/lniD-EUjjf0/видео.html
@@NuFlush1 helpful video thanks
Pretty much everything about this video is exactly wrong. A tight chain didn't fix his problem. The fact that his water level is 2 inches out of compliance with any United States County likely is giving him the strong flush. He also didn't install the Champion correctly, the intake pipe is 100 degrees off. Also you don't really need pliers to adjust the chain length, you simply align the angle of the metal part attaching to the beads and give it a pull if removing, or a push if reattaching. Your chain didn't just extend or shorten on it's own after a year, so your theory about what fixed it is completely beyond any logic. YOU CHANGED SOMETHING ELSE. I have one that has no slack in the chain, but still has a weak flush because my water level is now 1.5 inches lower (but within code) than my last one thanks to a complete unwelcome redesign of Fluidmaster fill valves recently, they are just shorter now. The way to work around it is to hold the flush level down for a second, not just give it an instantaneous push.
Uh
DO NOT BUY THIS TOILET. WORST FLUSH EVER. I HAVE TWO. BOTH SUCK.
same brand same toilet - had 3 different plumbers try to fix mine..TRUST ME, just go buy a Kohler, youll be much happier. These American Standard toilets are 110% pure trash
We love your video here at NuFlush, we will send you any toilet part we make and sell on our website "free" to test if you do a video. nuflush.com "We make toilets flush better" Ron
Sure! I would love to try it!
Hi Jon, the first item I would like to send you is our Champion 4 Repair Kit. This is an easier fix for folks that don't want to take there toilet apart. Send me your address and we will send it out. If video is half as good as the one I just watched, we would like to do more with you. We only do an explanation video's of our different Toilet parts. We do have video's on our NuFlush youtube channel. We don't have one on our Champion 4 parts solution yet.
Ron @ NuFlush
5195 Marshall Street
Arvada, Co. 80002
303-278-8067
www.nuflush.com
ron@nuflush.com
@@joneclegg Hi Jon, go to our website www.nuflush.com , pick out a product you would like to test and we will send it to you. don't pay for it but send me a note so I can send it to you. Ron
@@NuFlush1 hi, I’m curious. What is the repair kit? Does it make the flush any better without having to replace the entire flapper and take the tank off? Mine is brand new and the flush is so disappointing.
ruclips.net/video/lniD-EUjjf0/видео.html