I used to play chess as a kid but personally I rationalized the comparison not just as tactics & strategy, but as tactics, trategy AND positional play (and maybe time). Positional play in chess it putting your pieces on good squares, controlling the centre, putting your king in safety, developing your pieces, putting rooks on open files etc. They aren't part of a specific tactic, they are simply good moves that will eventually lead to good things. You can play them without a bigger plan behind them. In BJJ this is like pinning a leg while passing guard, getting an underhook, controlling posture, getting into mount; this can ofcourse lead to many tactics but they are good in and of themselves because it improves your position. A lot of beginners especially struggle with this. They don't know good places to put their arms or legs. Even if you aren't doing a specific tactic from your position, it's still often a good idea to control someone's posture, look for an underhook, hold their wrists etc. (depending on the position ofcourse) Tactics are a sequence(s) of moves that can lead to capturing a piece, checkmating your opponent, getting a better position or even just wasting your opponents time on their clock. In BJJ a tactic might be to get a submission or for getting to mount or the back. Tactics aren't just chasing the submission, but also to get points, position or to just tire your opponent. If someone only uses tactics for submissions, then that's still their strategy. The person who uses their tactics to get points or prioritize positional advantage clearly just has a better strategy (as long as he wins ofcourse). Strategy is a sequence of tactics that you choose according to your own abilities, your opponents abilities, and the ruleset at play, the latter being the most prevalent at high levels. A chess player might play a certain opening line because he is good at it, because he thinks his opponent plays bad against it, or because he studied that line and thinks his opponent won't be able to counter it without giving up position or losing a considerable amount of time on the clock (you can compare time with energy in BJJ). At a lower level you just strategize towards your strengths and weaknesses, you pull guard if you suck at wrestling, you do leglocks if you do them often during training etc. At a high level you still kinda do this, but you have to either be extremely prepared with a certain tactic, know some new moveset, have a counter to something your opponent does, or be just that little bit better at something to leverage a small positional advantage (like Cole Abate). Gordon Ryan uses a strategy around the ruleset (submission only, long time format) to pick certain tactics (backtracking to tire out pena) based on his strengths compared to Pena (extremely good guard passing and cardio) to give him a fundamental advantage (energy)
Let me see if I got this right. Strategy = the overall plan used to achieve a desired goal. Usually consists of a series of engagements. Tactics = the individual actions used to win an engagement. Strategy comes first as it will determine what tactics are required, those tactics are then implemented to execute the strategy. Failure to plan is planning to fail.
Analyzing actual BJJ footage of high level competitors really set this video up to be a great learning experience! It makes me want to rethink how I look at my attacks during my rolls and ensure there is a bigger goal with each one. Keep up the great work man!
Strong opening. I appreciate the nuance discussion on the difference between tactics and strategy. Please keep up the high quality uploads, no one's making jujitsu videos like you!
Using chess analogy... tatics are pins, fork and skewers. ◇ pin is to position and pressure. ◇ fork is to create enemy's dilema ◇ skewer is to deny enemy's choice As for strategy... i'd reckon is about favorable positioning in the creation of ever more options.
I love this channel, another fantastic video. Don't ever start dumbing down your videos for those who can't keep up. It would be like if schools/universities stopped teaching all advanced level courses and stopped offering Doctorates and Masters degree programs because not everyone can keep up with those classes. They're not for everyone.
Some people want to watch a 15 sec short on a topic and not be bothered with nuance and details and for others it's ALL in the nuance and details. Your video def appeals to the latter. Thank u
Gordon Ryan's pre-fight envelopes that show a submission also indicate that he is thinking of strategy and tactics on a different level. I know they are generally seen as a flex, a promise that he can just bully people to his submission of choice, but I think they're more thoughtful than that. He knows going in that what his strategy is and what submissions will be available to him in the end game. He uses tactics to keep the game on that path and to ensure that, in the end, he does finish as promised. If he promises an arm triangle finish but the fight stays on the feet or is all leg entanglements, the promise won't be fulfilled. If he is confident that he'll end up in chest to chest passing or mount, he can make that promise and deliver.
You are my favorite RUclipsr. Look forward to your vids. I just got my first stripe on my white belt like 3 weeks ago and my game has grown so much. I’ve been able to catch some higher belts and tap them and I am consistently tapping out other white belts. I also hooked a brown belt recently I was very happy.
This is really cool. I used to study chess quite a bit. Never got good, but floated around 1000-1200. Jiu Jitsu took over, but I have always felt a connection between the two. Amazing video! “Chess is war over the board. The object is to crush the opponent’s mind.” - Bobby Fischer
Great video! I am a club-level chess player, and the parallels can be uncanny. But there are also significant differences. The biggest one is that in chess each side makes a move at a time. But in BJJ you could execute several moves before the opponent is able to respond. Speed is a factor that does not impact the game of chess unless you develop your pieces so badly that you can't keep up against the opponent's threats - you could make a parallel to that. That is really perhaps the main problem with inferior positions, that your opponent has it becomes difficult to handle all the threats that the opponent has, and that is very similar to chess. The dilemmas in BJJ are more similar to the way of playing where you threaten two weaknesses in the opponent's position at the same time, rather than a fork or a double attack. The double attack is one step beyond a threat - it is more like you reverse triangle the opponent and attack a kimura simultaneously for example. That said, the dilemmas you show are excellent and if you did more videos about dilemmas in different positions, I am sure they would be very well-received. I watched this video and the next day in training I would try to cross-face my opponents and every time they would hide their chin - half Nelson, boom. :)))) Thank you, amazing work!
Another amazing video. Play chess myself, and people often make the BJJ chess analogy, but I’ve never heard it quite a clear and useful as you have just laid it out now. Thanks again
I'm one of those who is too dense and slow to pick up on half of the content of most of your videos. I continue to watch for the awesome commentary, entertaining edits and memes, and the competition analysis. But this video I got! The concept was a slight shift from what I am used to seeing from your channel, but it makes total sense. In addition to the tactics that I try to practice and learn, I am now developing a goal to set up a strategy for my rolls. Thanks!! 🤙
fantastic stuff. I was really worried after your last video you would start dumbing videos down to be more understandable. keep it high-brow. this is the stuff I'm coming to you to see.
This is a great analysis, I think. I realise that I have probably been doing exactly what you describe this whole time, that is: collecting tactics rather than developing a strategy. I think you could also draw a comparison with professional Starcraft 2, where even top players can be caught out with 'cheese' tactics, and even develop their own to exploit weaknesses in the meta, but can only be caught out if the opponent is a top player. Ie., even very tricky and unexpected tactics still require a rock solid foundation of strategic knowledge in order to work at the highest level. A beginner cannot beat a pro no matter how excellent the 'cheese'.
Great comparison! I imagine the idea of strategy and tactics will work under any game. It has certainly changed the way I approach learning and categorizing things in my head
Videos like this are why this is a top-tier bjj channel. This is some high-level thinking that is almost completely absent from grappling instruction and coaching.
Loved the video broseph, been a long time chess player and firefighter . They also make this distinction in firefighting. Really enjoy your videos ! Thanks!
Love this. I've been aware of the difference for awhile but only applied it broadly in MMA and Muay Thai. When thinking about it for BJJ I've only been focused on tactics with very little strategy.
Great video mate. I have a question, not about this video, but in general, ive been watching so many instructions videos, but sometime i got lost because is huge content, many hours, how do you study watching videos? any suggestion to try to get the principals details? cheers mate
Hi! My general strategy (when watching a Gordon instructional) has been to watch the first section to get the gist of what its about then watch Gordon's rolling footage to see how it looks in real time put all together and try to pin point things that he is doing most often. The things he does in rolling or in competition the most is where I try to focus most of my time
Simple explanation using Gordon Ryan Strategy: Tire out opppnent, only when you’ve done this try for submission Tactics is how you achieve your strategy: Collar ties, riding opponent/make him carry your weight, stay in dominant positions and backtrack if you have to but stay dominant.
Incredible insight, as always. One observation (not a disagreement): In chess, I have always heard the first position you showed called a fork, never a double attack. Another common chess tactic that relates to BJJ is the skewer, where you attack a less valuable piece by attacking a more valuable piece that is in line with it, forcing the more valuable piece to move in sacrifice of the less valuable piece. (think of forcing your opponent to concede a sweep to mount in order to avoid a certain kimura)
Amazing comparison between the WNO match and Polaris. Even tho I like to see submissions, I find submission only kinda stupid. The fear of getting scored on is what makes you over commit to something and your opponent can capitalize on it. In a submission only match, you can just play full defense and then go into an offensive move once you're out of danger. You see it time and time again in ADCC that most back takes happen from a guard pass/takedown scenario, everyone says that they love ADCC and then go and complain about point based matches ????
Great content as usual... It's scary how accurate you hit the timing on what I am trying to improve right now. Do you know which tool Josh uses for the short instructional clips... Great idea to have the techniques quickly at hand 👌
Brilliant video! It could explain why Gary Tonon hasn't had the same success as Gordon. Your point on tactics and strategy reminds me of a book called winners by Alastair Campbell which is worth a read.
from a table top war gaming perspective. strategy is how you want to win the game. shelling your opponent with artillery before finishing them off in close combat or using a fast manoeuvrable force to roll up and flank then take out their center. tactics are the details like where should i deploy my artillery or go thought the forest and take longer but you get more cover verses charging in and not letting them get as many turns of shooting at you melee unit.
One of my favorite mma fights is Jessica Andrade vs Claudia Gadelha and partially because it clearly shows a tactically focused gameplan losing to a strategically focused one in dramatic fashion. And the sharper tactical fighter ends up losing in large part due to a losing strategy.
On the one hand, I want to promote your channel because your videos are great. On the other hand, I don't know that I want everyone in my gym getting a hold of these nuggets at the same time I do... quite a dilemma :P
This really really nailed the concept of thinking at least one step ahead at all times for me... I need to start thinking "what are the possibilities or consequences from this position?" before I execute. Hard to think sometimes Mid roll but this definitely was an eye opener. Cheers.
@@peteypablo09 They say "tactical" when they should be saying "strategic," and vice versa. A tactic is a short-term sequence of moves in Chess, but they talk about tactics as big-picture strategy.
I have been competing and training in various grappling sports for half of my life. I have NEVER once heard a single athlete say anything negative about strategy. I assume new fans and practitioners would say that.
@@LIMIBJJ i guess i am not as connected to that part of the BJJ community 🤷♂️ i have heard people say watching grappling in general is boring and honestly, i agree at times. I watch to admire techniques and learn from people better than me, but if I did not know the rules or what was going on, I would be lost and disinterested. I hear some no gi and mma guys says they don’t like gi and give various reasons, but I have not heard it being boring as one of them. I have moved around a lot so I have been part of gyms in five states, most in the midwest so the culture may be different. I don’t follow Craig or what he says or posts regularly. I just watch some of his matches and highlights here and there. I assume he is trolling or is speaking in hyperbole, but maybe it is boring to him. That baffled me because it is removed from my personal experience, but I could see that for some people.
As a 1800 ranked chess player and BJJ purple belt, I found there is a lot of similarity between the 2. I have to say, I don't think the concepts in this video seem to click in with chess to well. But good video.
When I first started getting really into training and blitz and bullet chess I totally felt overlap in the idea of positional determinism - when there is a time constraint there are certain moves which force certain combinations of moves nearly every time. I’m not very good at chess so the moderate difficulty computer usually whoops me but I became a lot more defensively sound by playing bullet chess a lot at work and memorizing certain reactions, while my sparring certainly got a lot better when I stopped reaching when in guard or making other analogous mistakes
@@LIMIBJJ Bro thank you lol you make the best analyses out there and your videos got me to thinking about how folk like Gordon have such excellent metas: they force positional determinism on their opponents and attempt to control reactions to a limited set of options; this lets you win being good at most things and expert at some rather than trying and failing to be expert at every possible thing imaginable. I think Danaher has talked about this and about learning the core of an “ocean of moves” rather than learning every move possible - chess computers work much in the same way by using algorithms to narrow down possible moves
@@MercedesSLSJpak exactly! Awesome man this is pretty much all I am trying to do with my channel and it makes me very happy that you are getting the message through my videos. Thanks for the support!
I honestly just yeet everything. Probably bad coming up to Blue belt but they way I see it. If I get put into a bad position and can't get out. 1) My recovery to prevent strategy is poor. 2) my escapes from being a bad postion isn't good enough. Been in side guard so much from my fails that my side guard escapes are much better than most and I can stall there just enough to wait for a moment to escape and put my self in half guard and then Into guard. People focus to much on winning than improving
I think that works at the lower levels for sure and even at the higher levels. But I think people are studying more about how to actually hold people down effectively. So when people actually know how to control you from the top position there starts to be some serious consequences when it doesnt work. Right now like you said if you have decent escapes you just throw the kitchen sink at them and if it doesnt work you are patient and get out and just try again
good content overall. maybe less chess/semantics, more bjj examples would be my only feedback. thanks bro good stuff always look forward to a new video
Agreed! I am still trying to figure it out myself to be honest and am messing with these concepts now in my own game. So maybe in the future we can dive into the weeds a bit more. I appreciate the feedback!
I've understood bjj through poker more than chess. I think cos chess is in 3 dimension and there are clear beginning, middle and end points with the variety of play styles. John Danaher and his team bringing leg locks into being a necessary part of bjj reminds me of Moloch more than evolution of the game.
In chess you play with a clock and you spend time but in bjj you spend energy. In chess if you pose your opponent lots of tactical difficulties he will run his clock down finding the correct path, but 3 hours into the game when you have 30 minutes of your clock and he has 5 you pick your pase up pushing the pressure and he will blunder. And you punish the blunder. So escaping from mount takes energy. How many times can you escape from mount before your fucked. This does make more sense in no time limit matches. As a side not chess used to be no time limit. GMs would have a 7h playing session and then start again the next day but commuters killed that.
I think that you got things backwards in your video. IMO, BJJ players should be more willing to adapt their strategy to better suit their own tactics. (your video has this being the other way around) So many people are told that there is a "right" way to do things or a certain ideal strategy to execute that they bend their best tactics to pursue a generic strategy rather than developing a tailored strategy to complement their best tactics. You hit on the idea that you were looking for in the end when you mentioned that the chess pieces do not have the same value all of the time or even change value based on your preferences. Bobby fischer would probably disagree that bishops will always decrease in value as the game goes on. Some of his best games were bishop vs knight end games. In BJJ we value positions like halfguard or mount the same, but depending on the variation of those positions or even just your strategy they can have a drastically different value. Gordon seems to value having his opponent carry his weight, Garry Tonon seems to most value his freedom of movement, lighter people seem to value the ability to get their hips under their opponent... These are more of the high level strategic decisions that lead to long term success and should be chosen to complement your best tactics. These high level strategies should modify each person's relative value for each position instead of defaulting to the IBJJF designated point value like so many do. Have you ever had a killer wrestler get you in side control and almost tap you from sheer pressure only to move to mount and let you breathe a sigh of relief while he does nothing? Why should that person's strategy be to get to mount? Just because some old Brazilian guy thought that it should be worth more points in his version of the sport? John Danaher mentioned this in a round about way when talking with Lex fridman on his podcast. He mentioned that he felt like he failed Gary Tonon on his ADCC prep because John valued and drilled the positional game extremely heavily in the training camp, but Garry's optimal strategy is movement and constant submission attacks.
Yeah exactly thank you for the well thought out comment! I tried to emphasize that "controlling the center of the board" is going to be different for everyone depending on the skills that you bring to the table, ruleset, and the skills of the other person. But just the idea of having a long term goal behind your attacks was what I was trying to get across. Your comment is very insightful and well thought out. Thank you for this
Going to be different depending on the ruleset and your specific skillset. The idea behind controlling the center is to give you a long term advantage. So anything that gives you a long term advantage (scoring points and getting to their hips are the examples discussed in the videos)
It's sad that the West doesn't have any content with the game of Go. There's no other game in which you could seemingly lose all battles and yet win the war (related: pyrrhic victories, and sacrifices in Chess).
@@LIMIBJJ Go has the simplest set of rules (only 3 actually), learning its rules takes about 5 min max. However, you can spend many lifetimes trying to master it. It's as complex as you wish it to be.
Lol I played Chess for 5 years and just started Jiu Jitsu like 6 months ago. They have some similarities, but try playing chess with a 250 lb man sitting on your chest, wanting to rip your arm off.
Encase anyone cares: Looking at the definitions they seem the same: but they are not. A tactic is an action done in the short term; and a strategy is something done in the long term. TACTIC: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end. STRATEGY: a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim. So a strategy is the message you get, from a collection of tactics. (The message is the given end). A message is the conclusion you come to, when describing the sum of somethings parts.
He did use “double attack” incorrectly (which a lot of people do) when he meant to say “fork”. But that doesn’t stop it from being a pin. It’s both a pin and a fork
Gotcha. I know nothing but for some reason I thought I heard that a fork was a form of a double attack. Either way I think it was a great comparison to jiu jitsu
@@LIMIBJJ don’t get me wrong, the general idea for this video is great and very relevant. Don’t get distracted by the cool short-term play (which often works at the lower levels ), learn how to play the long-term game. That will carry you further. This is very much an accurate message from chess! However, I think in this video would have been better with less specific chess analogies and just keeping the general spirit of the main message throughout. Your videos are great and the effort shows. Chess (like BJJ) is hard.
For sure. That is the message I was hoping to get across but the chess analogy starts to break down once you get into the weeds. I plan to go into more actual jiu jitsu examples in the future once I get to play with it more as I am still trying to figure it out myself. I appreciate the comment!
![Wolfram Physics Project: Working Session Wednesday, Apr. 29, 2020 [Finding Black Hole Structures]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SbDzqlOLIZA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Wolfram Physics Project: Working Session Wednesday, Apr. 29, 2020 [Finding Black Hole Structures]](/img/tr.png)
![AI x Mathematics [Steven Wolfram, Deepmind's FunSearch, Khosla Ventures]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZrRl5ihBLY/mqdefault.jpg)
This is why i let opponents get all the way to my back, to lull them into a false sense of security. It's a part of my strategy
Haha chess not checkers
6d chess
hitting a sub while someone is actively on your back is my favorite
I used to play chess as a kid but personally I rationalized the comparison not just as tactics & strategy, but as tactics, trategy AND positional play (and maybe time).
Positional play in chess it putting your pieces on good squares, controlling the centre, putting your king in safety, developing your pieces, putting rooks on open files etc. They aren't part of a specific tactic, they are simply good moves that will eventually lead to good things. You can play them without a bigger plan behind them. In BJJ this is like pinning a leg while passing guard, getting an underhook, controlling posture, getting into mount; this can ofcourse lead to many tactics but they are good in and of themselves because it improves your position. A lot of beginners especially struggle with this. They don't know good places to put their arms or legs. Even if you aren't doing a specific tactic from your position, it's still often a good idea to control someone's posture, look for an underhook, hold their wrists etc. (depending on the position ofcourse)
Tactics are a sequence(s) of moves that can lead to capturing a piece, checkmating your opponent, getting a better position or even just wasting your opponents time on their clock. In BJJ a tactic might be to get a submission or for getting to mount or the back. Tactics aren't just chasing the submission, but also to get points, position or to just tire your opponent. If someone only uses tactics for submissions, then that's still their strategy. The person who uses their tactics to get points or prioritize positional advantage clearly just has a better strategy (as long as he wins ofcourse).
Strategy is a sequence of tactics that you choose according to your own abilities, your opponents abilities, and the ruleset at play, the latter being the most prevalent at high levels. A chess player might play a certain opening line because he is good at it, because he thinks his opponent plays bad against it, or because he studied that line and thinks his opponent won't be able to counter it without giving up position or losing a considerable amount of time on the clock (you can compare time with energy in BJJ). At a lower level you just strategize towards your strengths and weaknesses, you pull guard if you suck at wrestling, you do leglocks if you do them often during training etc. At a high level you still kinda do this, but you have to either be extremely prepared with a certain tactic, know some new moveset, have a counter to something your opponent does, or be just that little bit better at something to leverage a small positional advantage (like Cole Abate).
Gordon Ryan uses a strategy around the ruleset (submission only, long time format) to pick certain tactics (backtracking to tire out pena) based on his strengths compared to Pena (extremely good guard passing and cardio) to give him a fundamental advantage (energy)
This is super insightful and helpful! Thank you for taking the time to write this out! We can all take lots away from it!
Let me see if I got this right.
Strategy = the overall plan used to achieve a desired goal. Usually consists of a series of engagements.
Tactics = the individual actions used to win an engagement.
Strategy comes first as it will determine what tactics are required, those tactics are then implemented to execute the strategy.
Failure to plan is planning to fail.
Spot on!
Analyzing actual BJJ footage of high level competitors really set this video up to be a great learning experience! It makes me want to rethink how I look at my attacks during my rolls and ensure there is a bigger goal with each one.
Keep up the great work man!
Exactly! This was the message I was hoping to get across. Thanks for the great comment!
Strong opening. I appreciate the nuance discussion on the difference between tactics and strategy. Please keep up the high quality uploads, no one's making jujitsu videos like you!
Thank you! I have been working on my intros so I appreciate the feedback. Thank you for the support!
best strategy. use a bunch of steroids.
@@Teddy-se8qb now that's more of a tactic I would say. You clearly were not paying attention to the video...
@@ChristopherCarpenter yeah. really good steroids.
@@Teddy-se8qb osss
Using chess analogy... tatics are pins, fork and skewers.
◇ pin is to position and pressure.
◇ fork is to create enemy's dilema
◇ skewer is to deny enemy's choice
As for strategy... i'd reckon is about favorable positioning in the creation of ever more options.
I love this channel, another fantastic video. Don't ever start dumbing down your videos for those who can't keep up. It would be like if schools/universities stopped teaching all advanced level courses and stopped offering Doctorates and Masters degree programs because not everyone can keep up with those classes. They're not for everyone.
For sure! I appreciate the support! I am staying on the path! Thank you!
Word
as both a jiu jitsu player and a chess player this video made me very happy
Amazing I am glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for the comment!
I’ve understood the chess analogy for years, but to see them compared on a screen is just absolutely amazing. I really do love this sport.
For sure everyone always compares BJJ and chess but I never really understood it until now. I am glad you found it helpful! Thanks for the support!
Some people want to watch a 15 sec short on a topic and not be bothered with nuance and details and for others it's ALL in the nuance and details. Your video def appeals to the latter. Thank u
That is the target market! Thank you for the support! I appreciate the comment!
Gordon Ryan's pre-fight envelopes that show a submission also indicate that he is thinking of strategy and tactics on a different level. I know they are generally seen as a flex, a promise that he can just bully people to his submission of choice, but I think they're more thoughtful than that.
He knows going in that what his strategy is and what submissions will be available to him in the end game. He uses tactics to keep the game on that path and to ensure that, in the end, he does finish as promised. If he promises an arm triangle finish but the fight stays on the feet or is all leg entanglements, the promise won't be fulfilled. If he is confident that he'll end up in chest to chest passing or mount, he can make that promise and deliver.
Exactly. This is spot on. Thanks for the comment!
You are my favorite RUclipsr. Look forward to your vids. I just got my first stripe on my white belt like 3 weeks ago and my game has grown so much. I’ve been able to catch some higher belts and tap them and I am consistently tapping out other white belts. I also hooked a brown belt recently I was very happy.
Amazing! I am glad you are finding the videos helpful. Stay on the grind my man! I appreciate the support!
This is really cool. I used to study chess quite a bit. Never got good, but floated around 1000-1200. Jiu Jitsu took over, but I have always felt a connection between the two. Amazing video!
“Chess is war over the board. The object is to crush the opponent’s mind.” - Bobby Fischer
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 love the comment. Thanks for the support!
1:31, in chess it's called zugzwang, a situation in which the obligation to make a move in one's turn is a serious, often decisive, disadvantage
Awesome I hadnt heard that word before. Thanks for sharing
Great video! I am a club-level chess player, and the parallels can be uncanny. But there are also significant differences. The biggest one is that in chess each side makes a move at a time. But in BJJ you could execute several moves before the opponent is able to respond. Speed is a factor that does not impact the game of chess unless you develop your pieces so badly that you can't keep up against the opponent's threats - you could make a parallel to that. That is really perhaps the main problem with inferior positions, that your opponent has it becomes difficult to handle all the threats that the opponent has, and that is very similar to chess. The dilemmas in BJJ are more similar to the way of playing where you threaten two weaknesses in the opponent's position at the same time, rather than a fork or a double attack. The double attack is one step beyond a threat - it is more like you reverse triangle the opponent and attack a kimura simultaneously for example. That said, the dilemmas you show are excellent and if you did more videos about dilemmas in different positions, I am sure they would be very well-received. I watched this video and the next day in training I would try to cross-face my opponents and every time they would hide their chin - half Nelson, boom. :)))) Thank you, amazing work!
Awesome I appreciate the comment! That crossface half nelson dilemma is amazing!
didnt know chess players are juiced to the gills
As someone who both practices BJJ and plays chess, I found this video very cool and entertaining :)
Awesome I appreciate the feedback! Thank you for the comment and the support!
Another amazing video. Play chess myself, and people often make the BJJ chess analogy, but I’ve never heard it quite a clear and useful as you have just laid it out now. Thanks again
Awesome thank you! I am glad you found it helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
fun fact: I trained 5 martial arts over the years and heard the chess analogy with all of them lol
Haha I bet!
I'm one of those who is too dense and slow to pick up on half of the content of most of your videos. I continue to watch for the awesome commentary, entertaining edits and memes, and the competition analysis. But this video I got! The concept was a slight shift from what I am used to seeing from your channel, but it makes total sense. In addition to the tactics that I try to practice and learn, I am now developing a goal to set up a strategy for my rolls. Thanks!! 🤙
Awesome! That is the exact message I was hoping to get across. I am glad you found it helpful! Thank you for the continued support!
fantastic stuff. I was really worried after your last video you would start dumbing videos down to be more understandable. keep it high-brow. this is the stuff I'm coming to you to see.
For sure. I am staying on the path! Thanks for the support!
High level analysis. Thanks for creating content for this niche.
Thank you! I am glad you are finding it helpful! Thank you for the support!
Dude I’m loving your videos. I just discovered your page. Very informative!🔥🔥
Thank you! I am glad you are finding them helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
Bro! how in the world do these videos keep getting better each week!
The grind is real my man! Day by day! I appreciate the support!
This is a great analysis, I think. I realise that I have probably been doing exactly what you describe this whole time, that is: collecting tactics rather than developing a strategy.
I think you could also draw a comparison with professional Starcraft 2, where even top players can be caught out with 'cheese' tactics, and even develop their own to exploit weaknesses in the meta, but can only be caught out if the opponent is a top player. Ie., even very tricky and unexpected tactics still require a rock solid foundation of strategic knowledge in order to work at the highest level. A beginner cannot beat a pro no matter how excellent the 'cheese'.
Great comparison! I imagine the idea of strategy and tactics will work under any game. It has certainly changed the way I approach learning and categorizing things in my head
Dude I love your channel. Great to get such a deep dive into jiu jitsu.
Thank you! I am glad you are finding the videos helpful! Appreciate the support!
Let’s go another banger. Loving the constant uploads!
Thanks man I appreciate the support! Trying to keep the 1 per week pace!
Videos like this are why this is a top-tier bjj channel. This is some high-level thinking that is almost completely absent from grappling instruction and coaching.
Thank you! I am glad you are finding the videos helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
Loved the video broseph, been a long time chess player and firefighter . They also make this distinction in firefighting.
Really enjoy your videos !
Thanks!
Amazing! Thanks my man I appreciate the support. Keep being you 🙌🏼
I might not have tactics nor strategy but at least i still have beautiful ears
😂
Love this. I've been aware of the difference for awhile but only applied it broadly in MMA and Muay Thai. When thinking about it for BJJ I've only been focused on tactics with very little strategy.
Yeah I think a lot of us newer grapplers get caught up in chasing submissions so much!
Great video mate. I have a question, not about this video, but in general, ive been watching so many instructions videos, but sometime i got lost because is huge content, many hours, how do you study watching videos? any suggestion to try to get the principals details? cheers mate
Hi! My general strategy (when watching a Gordon instructional) has been to watch the first section to get the gist of what its about then watch Gordon's rolling footage to see how it looks in real time put all together and try to pin point things that he is doing most often. The things he does in rolling or in competition the most is where I try to focus most of my time
Simple explanation using Gordon Ryan
Strategy: Tire out opppnent, only when you’ve done this try for submission
Tactics is how you achieve your strategy: Collar ties, riding opponent/make him carry your weight, stay in dominant positions and backtrack if you have to but stay dominant.
Simple enough 🙌🏼
Your videos are always such a treat to watch
Thank you! I am glad you are finding them helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
Damn you really are making me better at Jiu Jitsu with these vids. Thanks!
Awesome I am glad you are finding the videos helpful! Thank you for the comment and the support!
been following since day 1. Amazing explanations and the editing keeps getting better!
Thank you! I appreciate the continued support! Day by day!
Great vídeo you have Improved me bjj mindset
Awesome I am glad you found it helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
Incredible insight, as always.
One observation (not a disagreement): In chess, I have always heard the first position you showed called a fork, never a double attack.
Another common chess tactic that relates to BJJ is the skewer, where you attack a less valuable piece by attacking a more valuable piece that is in line with it, forcing the more valuable piece to move in sacrifice of the less valuable piece. (think of forcing your opponent to concede a sweep to mount in order to avoid a certain kimura)
Ah the skewer sounds like a super common one! Thanks for this! I appreciate the comment!
The "double attack" is called "a fork"! Your best video so far IMO
Thank you!
Great video. Some 🤡 ranked the BJJ channels recently and you didn’t even get a mention 🤦🏼♂️
Keep up the good work 🎉
I got a lot of love in the comments section though so I appreciate you all! Its tough to make a list like that and he is bound to leave someone out
@@LIMIBJJ it’s pretty arrogant to make a list like that in my opinion. But who am I 🤠
Great topic, thanks for all your hard work!
Thank you! I am glad you found it helpful. Thank you for the comment and the support!
Thank you. Do another one of these
Glad you enjoyed it! Another video about chess?
Great video and footage thanks bro
You got it my man! Thanks for the comment and the support!
Excellent video! Loved the chess analogy! Will share this with my chess people, maybe this will help them finally get BJJ
Awesome I am glad you found it helpful! Haha recruit the great minds of chess!
No wayyyy I’m featured in my favorite jiujitsu RUclips channel @5:30 😮
Haha it was fun watching you compete my man! Keep up the good work!
Thank you sir! I appreciate the informational content, it’s apparent you are on a higher level of thinking when it comes to this sport.
Amazing comparison between the WNO match and Polaris. Even tho I like to see submissions, I find submission only kinda stupid. The fear of getting scored on is what makes you over commit to something and your opponent can capitalize on it. In a submission only match, you can just play full defense and then go into an offensive move once you're out of danger.
You see it time and time again in ADCC that most back takes happen from a guard pass/takedown scenario, everyone says that they love ADCC and then go and complain about point based matches ????
Hahaha the hypocrisy runs deep. Yeah I agree. The rules have a lot to do with incentives in a match
Great content as usual... It's scary how accurate you hit the timing on what I am trying to improve right now.
Do you know which tool Josh uses for the short instructional clips... Great idea to have the techniques quickly at hand 👌
I think he literally just records it on his phone and then saves it in folders! Like you said a great idea to access them quickly!
Brilliant video! It could explain why Gary Tonon hasn't had the same success as Gordon. Your point on tactics and strategy reminds me of a book called winners by Alastair Campbell which is worth a read.
Good point! Thank you for the book recommendation. I will check it out!
Life hack right here. Appreciate the work!
Exactly! Thanks my man I appreciate the support!
from a table top war gaming perspective. strategy is how you want to win the game. shelling your opponent with artillery before finishing them off in close combat or using a fast manoeuvrable force to roll up and flank then take out their center. tactics are the details like where should i deploy my artillery or go thought the forest and take longer but you get more cover verses charging in and not letting them get as many turns of shooting at you melee unit.
Awesome I appreciate the comment! Thank you for the support!
Great stuff man ⚡🔥
Thank you! I appreciate the comment and the support!
One of my favorite mma fights is Jessica Andrade vs Claudia Gadelha and partially because it clearly shows a tactically focused gameplan losing to a strategically focused one in dramatic fashion. And the sharper tactical fighter ends up losing in large part due to a losing strategy.
Interesting I will check it out! Thank you for the comment and the recommendation!
Great video!
Thank you! Glad you found it helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
On the one hand, I want to promote your channel because your videos are great. On the other hand, I don't know that I want everyone in my gym getting a hold of these nuggets at the same time I do... quite a dilemma :P
Hahaha well played. Seems like the message hit home
Your partners getting better will make you better... But give yourself a head start :P
@@jtom416 haha veteran move
This really really nailed the concept of thinking at least one step ahead at all times for me... I need to start thinking "what are the possibilities or consequences from this position?" before I execute. Hard to think sometimes Mid roll but this definitely was an eye opener. Cheers.
Yeah its hard to think about during sparring. So much going on and I am exploring this idea myself so I feel your pain haha
As a chess nerd that took up bjj 1 year ago I like this video.
Thank you! I am glad you found it helpful! Thank you for the comment and the support!
So nice to hear these terms used correctly. DDS been getting it backwards for years.
I think that is why I was so surprised to hear what these terms meant in chess
How have they been using it backwards?
@@peteypablo09 They say "tactical" when they should be saying "strategic," and vice versa. A tactic is a short-term sequence of moves in Chess, but they talk about tactics as big-picture strategy.
This is really good stuff.
Thank you! Glad you found it helpful. I appreciate the comment and the support!
This is insightful thinking. Very thought provoking. Ignore all the chess haters/know it alls.
Thank you I am glad you found it helpful. I appreciate the comment and the support!
My fav video so far
Awesome thank you! I am glad you found it helpful!
I have been competing and training in various grappling sports for half of my life. I have NEVER once heard a single athlete say anything negative about strategy. I assume new fans and practitioners would say that.
People say the gi is boring all the time because it is too strategic no? Craig says it a lot but he could be trolling haha
@@LIMIBJJ i guess i am not as connected to that part of the BJJ community 🤷♂️ i have heard people say watching grappling in general is boring and honestly, i agree at times. I watch to admire techniques and learn from people better than me, but if I did not know the rules or what was going on, I would be lost and disinterested. I hear some no gi and mma guys says they don’t like gi and give various reasons, but I have not heard it being boring as one of them. I have moved around a lot so I have been part of gyms in five states, most in the midwest so the culture may be different.
I don’t follow Craig or what he says or posts regularly. I just watch some of his matches and highlights here and there. I assume he is trolling or is speaking in hyperbole, but maybe it is boring to him. That baffled me because it is removed from my personal experience, but I could see that for some people.
As a 1800 ranked chess player and BJJ purple belt, I found there is a lot of similarity between the 2.
I have to say, I don't think the concepts in this video seem to click in with chess to well.
But good video.
Love your content
Thank you! I appreciate the comment and the support!
When I first started getting really into training and blitz and bullet chess I totally felt overlap in the idea of positional determinism - when there is a time constraint there are certain moves which force certain combinations of moves nearly every time. I’m not very good at chess so the moderate difficulty computer usually whoops me but I became a lot more defensively sound by playing bullet chess a lot at work and memorizing certain reactions, while my sparring certainly got a lot better when I stopped reaching when in guard or making other analogous mistakes
Very interesting comment. That is an angle I did not consider. Thanks for this!
@@LIMIBJJ Bro thank you lol you make the best analyses out there and your videos got me to thinking about how folk like Gordon have such excellent metas: they force positional determinism on their opponents and attempt to control reactions to a limited set of options; this lets you win being good at most things and expert at some rather than trying and failing to be expert at every possible thing imaginable. I think Danaher has talked about this and about learning the core of an “ocean of moves” rather than learning every move possible - chess computers work much in the same way by using algorithms to narrow down possible moves
@@MercedesSLSJpak exactly! Awesome man this is pretty much all I am trying to do with my channel and it makes me very happy that you are getting the message through my videos. Thanks for the support!
When you said double attacks I instantly thought of kickboxing
Is that a term commonly used in kickboxing?
@@LIMIBJJ yes
I honestly just yeet everything. Probably bad coming up to Blue belt but they way I see it. If I get put into a bad position and can't get out. 1) My recovery to prevent strategy is poor. 2) my escapes from being a bad postion isn't good enough. Been in side guard so much from my fails that my side guard escapes are much better than most and I can stall there just enough to wait for a moment to escape and put my self in half guard and then Into guard. People focus to much on winning than improving
I think that works at the lower levels for sure and even at the higher levels. But I think people are studying more about how to actually hold people down effectively. So when people actually know how to control you from the top position there starts to be some serious consequences when it doesnt work. Right now like you said if you have decent escapes you just throw the kitchen sink at them and if it doesnt work you are patient and get out and just try again
good content overall. maybe less chess/semantics, more bjj examples would be my only feedback. thanks bro good stuff always look forward to a new video
Agreed! I am still trying to figure it out myself to be honest and am messing with these concepts now in my own game. So maybe in the future we can dive into the weeds a bit more. I appreciate the feedback!
The best Chess/BJJ connection I've ever seen. Great job.
Thank you I am glad you enjoyed it. I appreciate the comment and the support!
I’d like to think I hade a good strategy going into that match 😂💪🏽
And perfectly executed! Keep up the good work Jed! 🙌🏼
I've understood bjj through poker more than chess. I think cos chess is in 3 dimension and there are clear beginning, middle and end points with the variety of play styles. John Danaher and his team bringing leg locks into being a necessary part of bjj reminds me of Moloch more than evolution of the game.
Very interesting. Thank you for the comment!
I love your videos king Jake
Haha thanks Ben! I appreciate the comments and the support 🙌🏼
In chess you play with a clock and you spend time but in bjj you spend energy. In chess if you pose your opponent lots of tactical difficulties he will run his clock down finding the correct path, but 3 hours into the game when you have 30 minutes of your clock and he has 5 you pick your pase up pushing the pressure and he will blunder. And you punish the blunder. So escaping from mount takes energy. How many times can you escape from mount before your fucked. This does make more sense in no time limit matches. As a side not chess used to be no time limit. GMs would have a 7h playing session and then start again the next day but commuters killed that.
This is a great comparison! Thank you for this comment!
I watch chess and BJJ videos all the time and I started tripping when I saw the chessboard.
😱😱😱 Hope you enjoyed it!
Amazing👏👏
Thank you glad you found it helpful! I appreciate the comment and the support!
I started playing chess a lot the last two weeks or so 😂 so weird the timing of this video
Haha can't teach that chemistry!
I think that you got things backwards in your video. IMO, BJJ players should be more willing to adapt their strategy to better suit their own tactics. (your video has this being the other way around) So many people are told that there is a "right" way to do things or a certain ideal strategy to execute that they bend their best tactics to pursue a generic strategy rather than developing a tailored strategy to complement their best tactics. You hit on the idea that you were looking for in the end when you mentioned that the chess pieces do not have the same value all of the time or even change value based on your preferences. Bobby fischer would probably disagree that bishops will always decrease in value as the game goes on. Some of his best games were bishop vs knight end games.
In BJJ we value positions like halfguard or mount the same, but depending on the variation of those positions or even just your strategy they can have a drastically different value. Gordon seems to value having his opponent carry his weight, Garry Tonon seems to most value his freedom of movement, lighter people seem to value the ability to get their hips under their opponent... These are more of the high level strategic decisions that lead to long term success and should be chosen to complement your best tactics. These high level strategies should modify each person's relative value for each position instead of defaulting to the IBJJF designated point value like so many do.
Have you ever had a killer wrestler get you in side control and almost tap you from sheer pressure only to move to mount and let you breathe a sigh of relief while he does nothing? Why should that person's strategy be to get to mount? Just because some old Brazilian guy thought that it should be worth more points in his version of the sport?
John Danaher mentioned this in a round about way when talking with Lex fridman on his podcast. He mentioned that he felt like he failed Gary Tonon on his ADCC prep because John valued and drilled the positional game extremely heavily in the training camp, but Garry's optimal strategy is movement and constant submission attacks.
Yeah exactly thank you for the well thought out comment! I tried to emphasize that "controlling the center of the board" is going to be different for everyone depending on the skills that you bring to the table, ruleset, and the skills of the other person. But just the idea of having a long term goal behind your attacks was what I was trying to get across.
Your comment is very insightful and well thought out. Thank you for this
Amazing video man!! Thanks for this awesome content!
I am glad you found it helpful. I appreciate the comment and the support 🙌🏼
Its a "fork" in chess not a double attack. And your pin example was a double pin which is nearly impossible. But great video and awesome topic!
Thank you appreciate the support!
How do you control the center in bjj?
With wedges and diagonal control.
Going to be different depending on the ruleset and your specific skillset. The idea behind controlling the center is to give you a long term advantage. So anything that gives you a long term advantage (scoring points and getting to their hips are the examples discussed in the videos)
It's sad that the West doesn't have any content with the game of Go. There's no other game in which you could seemingly lose all battles and yet win the war (related: pyrrhic victories, and sacrifices in Chess).
Ah that is a beautiful way to put it! My only experience with Go is the AlphaGo documentary but it seems very complex
@@LIMIBJJ Go has the simplest set of rules (only 3 actually), learning its rules takes about 5 min max. However, you can spend many lifetimes trying to master it. It's as complex as you wish it to be.
Sounds like a beautiful game
Lol I played Chess for 5 years and just started Jiu Jitsu like 6 months ago. They have some similarities, but try playing chess with a 250 lb man sitting on your chest, wanting to rip your arm off.
They have some similarities but a lot of differences as well for sure!
Encase anyone cares:
Looking at the definitions they seem the same: but they are not. A tactic is an action done in the short term; and a strategy is something done in the long term.
TACTIC: an action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
STRATEGY: a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim.
So a strategy is the message you get, from a collection of tactics. (The message is the given end).
A message is the conclusion you come to, when describing the sum of somethings parts.
I care! Thanks for the comment and the support!
3-Dimensional Kinetic Chess.
I have a hard time seeing Grappling or MMA any other way.
I don't know how to play Chess.
Haha I have no idea how to play chess either
Solid
👊🏼
Gotta be the guy that says whenever you are attacking more than one piece at once in chess it’s called a fork.
Ah yeah a couple people have said this as well. The video I watched said that a fork was a type of double attack so I just went with double attack
2:08 that’s not a dilemma. It’s a pin. The bishop can’t move.
All of the above!
He did use “double attack” incorrectly (which a lot of people do) when he meant to say “fork”. But that doesn’t stop it from being a pin. It’s both a pin and a fork
@@peteypablo09 right. I see.
In chess it's called a fork not a double attack but it doesnt really matter the principle is the same
He needs to start playing Go to get to the next level.
Haha levels to the game
0:07 😂😂😂😂😂 now that's meta
I want an instructional done by you lol id spend atleast 100$ a piece on sequences
Hahahaha you're a real one!
insane
🤯
I think you could have done well to define tactics and strategy more thoroughly at the beginning of the video
Ah ok I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!
Its actually called a fork, not a double attack.
Gotcha. I know nothing but for some reason I thought I heard that a fork was a form of a double attack. Either way I think it was a great comparison to jiu jitsu
The BJJ analysis is on point, as usual. But as a chess player, I found many of the parallels you made quite inaccurate and distracting.
Ah shoot sorry. I dont know much about chess but thought I understood the aspects I put in the video
@@LIMIBJJ don’t get me wrong, the general idea for this video is great and very relevant. Don’t get distracted by the cool short-term play (which often works at the lower levels ), learn how to play the long-term game. That will carry you further. This is very much an accurate message from chess! However, I think in this video would have been better with less specific chess analogies and just keeping the general spirit of the main message throughout. Your videos are great and the effort shows. Chess (like BJJ) is hard.
For sure. That is the message I was hoping to get across but the chess analogy starts to break down once you get into the weeds. I plan to go into more actual jiu jitsu examples in the future once I get to play with it more as I am still trying to figure it out myself. I appreciate the comment!
Ah yes, two things I like, chess and bjj
It’s called a fork brotha
Cool yeah thank you for the clarification
How did William the Conqueror win all of his major battles?.. Seduction
😂😂😂
It’s called a fork🤓
😆 I appreciate the comment! Thanks for letting me know!
Here's the DILEMA.. No matter how much TACTICS or STRATEGY you have, Gordon Ryan will not be beat for another 15 years. Maybe.
Haha 100%
I dont like how many nerds get into jiu jitsu. Grugs we will have our day and put the nerds back into the lockers
😆
🤜
🤛🏼
👊
👊🏼