How Popular Is Magic: The Gathering IP? | Dies To Removal 45
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2022
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I can't believe you'd go and post the 44 previous Dies to Removal episode in the first three minutes of the show. Incredibly brave.
And amazing
I was in tears by the end of that skit. "Wizards makes something you really want. Then they don't print it."
The absurdist tone they took made it so sooo perfect!
The best !!!
@@MrCenturion13 stunning, brave, truly informative and changed my life.
Wizards did have a passionate knowledgeable writer in Brandon Sanderson who is a huge fan of the game. Unfortunately they managed to burn that bridge almost instantly when they decided to get greedy and remove free access to the short story he wrote for them. He had written it for free on the condition it was free to read, and after it was well received wizards removed the online posting of the story and made it available as a full priced novel only. I believe he has stated somewhere that he has no intention of working with them again as a result of bad faith from WotC, though I may be incorrect on that. Unfortunately in recent years it seems WotC is totally fine burning long standing good will in the name of short term profits.
And...let this he our daily reminder to NEVER trust the big corporations. If it isn't written in ink and legally binding, then it is subject to change at their whim.
That really sucks for Sanderson. It sucks even more for WotC, because even though that world building stuff doesn't appeal to me, I know that it would certainly bring in a few new faces. How long they stayed for the game is up for debate, but if nothing else its still a new customer for Wizards for their Magic IP stories.
Came here to mention that as well. Whole thing was crazy and indicates to me that we don't have any more good spinoff media because the people in charge are totally out of touch with what audience want / lack the skills or desire or confidence in the IP to make good stuff happen.
I'm pretty sure he did it for free too, gave all the money they would have paid him to charity
mistborn secret lair would have been dope too. ew.
@@ryanrobot7975 wouldn’t shock me, he’s known to be an enormous MtG enthusiast.
the duffer brothers who created stranger things originally wanted to have magic the gathering in the show but had to change it to d&d because it was set before magic existed. they are only kind of into d&d but as kids they got into film making by creating magic the gathering fan films.
The therapist behind the camera: "Are these 'Wizards of the Coast' in the room with us right now?"
the Dominaria United set symbol is literally the Dominaria set symbol and the Invasion set symbol merged together. I think this theory holds water.
I cannot believe that prof didn't know about the critically acclaimed film Cats and Dogs 2: Revenge of Kitty Galore.
There's a movie called dogs VS Cats. The opening bit of this episode was giving some strong Half in the Bag vibes.
"That's right Prof!"
MTG monopoly except each player is Phyrexian and you aren’t “buying properties”, you’re “besieging planes” and you can build up your “compleat” sets that you collect.
💀
Magic IP was the biggest reason I wanted to play this game. And the lore can be really captivating and interesting. But it always feels like WotC doesnt trust Magic's identity to be good enough. And Universes Beyond feels like the ultimate backstab to Magic, the only way to get people interested is to make Magic a fad with random cross brand promotion. Cant wait for Secret Lair Kraft Mac n Cheese
Secret Lair Kraft Mac n Cheese is the first secret lair I will ever buy
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy basically. They don't trust in their own IP enough to branch out and put it out there to the public (not even committing to a book line for longer than a year or two nowadays), which leads to nobody caring about Magic as a narrative and setting beyond window dressing, which leads to their concerns being "justified" by public apathy of their own creation.
I'm exactly opposite of your opinion. The fantasy setting of Magic actively drove me away. That is all that anyone seems to want to do. It's a big part of the reason that I don't like Flesh and Blood (well, that and it's not a great game).
I ended up getting into Magic 2 years after I first learned of its existence because a friend basically said, " 'Here, play this game with me. You'll love it.' " and he was right, I did love it. But I loved the actual gameplay.
Sure, I enjoyed the art, but it could have literally been any other setting and I would have still liked the game. Hell, had Magic not been a typical swords and sorcery style setting, and had it been almost anything else, I would have probably been wiling to check it out from the first time that I ever saw it.
@@Xoulrath_ Lol typical fantasy setting? Magic bounces from Gothic horror world, to Indian steampunk world, to Ancient Egyptian world, to Dinosaur Pirate world… I think Magic’s various settings is probably its strongest creative aspect
@@willjackson5885 oh wow, they threw in some pirates and some dinosaurs. Did you know that pirates and dinosaurs often exist in those fantasy settings? Apparently not.
And Gothic? Please, Ravnica was a part of D&D for years before Magic ever visited Innistrad. It doesn't somehow make Magic not a largely swords and sorcery based FANTASY WORLD.
The art is HIGHLY generic and has been for years. The flavor text makes little to no sense when taken out of context. This is a game. It isn't a damn story. You want to read a book, then go read a book. Keep your top down fantasy trope trash out of my game. It's ruining it.
Saying that about the Strixhaven animations, I loved the college promos that Game Knights made for each school
Fun fact! There's a Japan only arcade game called Lords of Vermillion. It collaborated with mtg! You can use Garruk and Liliana in it!
There's also Duel Masters (okay that's Wizards too), Puzzle and Dragons, probably a bunch of others too...
Lords of Vermillion City, a pokemon spinoff where you play as Garruk collecting different beasts to fight your rival, Lilliana, and become the true Pokemon Master
To the point of WotC having too much of a grip on their IP:
In the very comics you mention here, they wanted to show a scene of Jaya Ballard drawing mana from the mountains. Tapping lands, basically. And WotC literally stepped in and told them not to do that.
I'll say that again:
The people doing the comics wanted to include a scene that references a game mechanic within the lore, out of a love for the game probably, and WotC didn't want them to do that.
That's crazy. Do you have a source for this, or more context you can share? Why would WotC not want that?
Would love to read more about this, please share a link.
I think a lot of the issues WoTC has with a multi-media approach to the MTG ip boils down to one thing.
Management.
Now, hear me out. If you look at the majority of WoTC leadership, and to some degree Hasbro as well.
Very few have "Media" experience, many of them are focused on systems, financing, business technology.
They are good at making number (of dollars made) go up.
They are not good at brand management, multi-media strategies, film/movie/tv rights negotiations.
That's why a lot of the big moves we have seen them make with MTG are just "turning the dials up" on the existing player base.
More sets every year, more supplemental products, secret lair, more commander decks, premium commander decks.
They are good at making players spend more, and spend more often. Those are easy dials to turn.
They are not good at anything besides that, and largely when they have been, it's been spurred on by individuals within WoTC.
Mark Rosewater, Gavin Verhey, The individual story writers/website story team. It largely feels like any vague semblance of a multi-media approach has been an effort by individuals struggling to work within the confines of WoTC, rather than a team being empowered by the company to do so.
Why are MaRo & Gavin largely the PR face of any given set? There should be a separate PR & media team.
The fact of the matter is, it's very easy to increase MTG profit by doing what leadership knows best.
Adjust the number, adjust the product line.
It's very hard for them to increase profit in a way that they have no familiarity with and that would be very expensive, by using a multi-media brand approach to increase the consumer base.
Until we see more executives hired to WoTC with multi-media/brand management experience, or the announcement that they plan expand, empower, or grow a team that focuses on that for the Magic IP, any efforts will likely fail.
This is very accurate. I mean, hell, you see it with a lot of other Wizards IP's. DnD has multi media exposure, but mostly just games, and that's a legacy element at this point. The rest of DnD's multi-media penetration is mostly fan driven.
And, of course, Hasbro has been primarily a toy company since forever. So they've always made other forms of media with the sole expectation of pushing people to buy product.
The value of eyeballs changed very quickly over the past 10-15 years, and a lot of legacy companies in niche industries, like toys and games, really haven't adapted their strategies to capitalize on that.
Magic is awful at marketing itself. I never would have tried the game if I didn’t have a friend that loved it and the only thing I could do alone in a new state was play commander at a LGS. MTG has to advertise itself beyond word of mouth. Secret lairs do a good job but it’s not enough. Arcane makes me wanna play League of legends and I know how awful the game is.
It's not super well known, but there's actually an ongoing manga about the early days of MTG in japan called "Destroy All Humankind. They Can't Be Regenerated.". It's a coming of age romcom kinda story about a high school MTG player learning to get really good at magic to compete with his crush, and it depicts the strategy and duels of MTG really well. You should read it and make a vid about it Prof!
Yeah this is easily one of the best non-game component of magic and its really obscure and doesn't have an official English release. Hopefully one day
I can perfectly see Karn traveling to fix something as a nice introduction of the Starcraft IP.
Karn: Look, I found a a strange bug!
Jim Raynor: That's a Zerg larva, kill it or I'll do it!
Karn: No I will take care of it! Besides, what's the worst that could happen?
*Everyone yells: "phyrexia"*
Karn: I learned my lesson from that!
*fast forward*
Next set: New Zerus
Sorry Prof. There is an early 2000s movie named "Dogs and Cats"
Also, in Tom & Jerry, we have our wonderful supportive character named Spike. (American Bulldog)
I keep seeing the Mirrodin Pure, vs New Phyrexia thing mentioned. It wasn't a 'surprise'. They came out of thed gate saying it was going to be one of two sets, and they gaver us the name of both, and just said we arent telling you which. It wasnt "Oh the next set is Mirrodin Pure' and then they snuck it in. We knew from the start it would be one of two, and they even gave two separate promos out for it depending on which side you wanted to win.
Yeah, strange "miss" by the TCC Proctor, here. I even remember that, and I've only ever been a "casual" player of MtG.
I still don’t think that this rules out the possibility that Dominaria United has been “united” through compleation and wotc is just using some clever wordplay. The original motto of New Phyrexia was along the lines of “All Will be One” after all.
@@kiyohiyt1562 yeah, "All will be One" is a phrase that still sends shivers down my spine, a buddy of mine still has the reversible card box with that on it, the Mirrodin side has never seen the light of day lol. The artwork is pretty creepy on it too. It was an absolutely fantastic bit of advertising, very memorable.
I think it would be perfect if they did one 40-60 minute episode for each set that showed the world and major events and characters. but that's probably asking too much for wizards
Yeah, a nice special to go with each episode. Have it breeze through a basic version of the set's storyline, with emphasis on the parts that would provide the most spectacle, like the werewolves interrupting the Dawnhart festival or Elspeth's battle with Ob Nixilis .
A big thing I've seen with MTG is that there are not any characters that I identify with. I'm sure others feel different, but it's not like when I played the Dragon Ball Z TCG back in the day and I wanted to immediately make a Gohan deck.
I now proxy my commanders to a different character to make it more fun for me. Magic is going at break neck speeds that keeping up with the lore is just too much.
I'd argue that the "lack of identifiable characters" is twofold.
With a game like Dragonball, people are typically coming into it FROM being a fan of the anime/manga, and coming from that side makes it a lot easier to latch onto the game because you already have characters that you like. Magic the Gathering's a property that was a game first, and the lore is supplementary material that's relegated to online articles and flavor text. If I didn't find channels like Magic Arcanum, I wouldn't KNOW most of the stories in Magic.
The other part of this problem is the way the story works. Traveling to new planes every set (or formerly couple of sets) makes it so that even if you do latch onto a character or a group of characters, you may not see them for a very long time. And if you don't like the cast at the next couple of planes, what is there to latch onto?
There's guaranteed an MTG character that you WOULD identify with. It's a big ass game with countless stories they've told. But they're buried under so many layers of obfuscation that it makes it hard to find them.
@@RoastedPheasant I felt this with Kamigawa and Kaito. That entire story with him and the empress (I forget her name) along with Jin all seemed so interesting then it was basically forgotten.
@@CHEFPKR We never get to know her actual name, but she's referred to by The Emperor (gender neutral title) and The Wanderer from previous sets like in War of the Spark. So it was really in Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty that we got to know her backstory a little more.
And I'd agree with Roasted Pheasant that MTG often travels to new planes every set, so even if there is a character(s) that you enjoy seeing, there may or may not be a chance you'll see either the plane again or the character(s) again.
To each their own I guess, I’m sorta attached to Arlinn Kord, who dislikes her werewolf heritage
@@SmuggyOcelot true, took me a bit of wiki searching and reading to find a few I like. I like reading so I don't mind but I can see others having issues.
Sarkhan is dope with the redemption arc. Same with garruk. The keeper of souls from strixhaven is cool too.
Hey, I never noticed that the TCC motto is "SEMPER EME SINGULAS"... love it!
Popular enough to make the company more and more money than ever before. Not popular enough to actually leave much of an imprint on modern pop culture aside from trending on Twitter when wotc does something gross or hateabls
The worlds of Magic are it's strongest aspect to me: Innistrad, Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, Kamigawa pre and post cyberpunk, they have so many interesting stages to set a story that have their own developement through set design. The biggest problem to me is that the characters are not actual characters; they're just concepts for characters that have stock personality traits associated with their color identity.
What also tends to happen with what I've read of the many short-stories for Magic is that the voice of the writer often comes through rather than that of any given character, meaning that there's no consistency to any character's thought processes or mannerisms, and that each character in any given story just blur together into what feels like the writer using those characters as puppets to tell the story they want to tell instead of having the events of the story be motivated by the characters.
I don't think the lore of Magic is lacking in any way, but the characters are so bland because of everything mentioned that it's difficult for someone unfamiliar with the Magic universe to latch onto it. I think it might be important to have characters that someone might identify with or want to familiarize themselves with and learn more about as a "point of entry" into Magic lore.
Couldn't agree more. There's no consistency with these characters, who could be such a rich vein for storytelling. Investing just a little more of WotC's massive profits into story/character development could pay massive dividends for player engagement and thus sales. Unfortunately, though, it seems like WotC only thinks of short-term gain these days, and anything that's more than a direct A to B relationship between effort and money isn't worth their time. Most of the story beats these days are predictable and unexciting, but these worlds and characters are capable of so much more. A little depth would go a long way.
WotC seems so focused on highlighting the worlds of magic instead of the characters that there are hardly any new characters with any depth for people to invest in it.
Lilianna Vess is probably the most viable character for a show since her character arc at least focuses on her growth as a person.
And then you've got players like me, who, you know, PLAY the game. They could change the art style to some futuristic science fantasy setting, change the names, change the game terms, and so long as the game itself is good, then I wouldn't bat an eyelash.
It's been my personal experience, anecdotal as it may be, that the hundreds of people that I've met over the years playing this game, cares far more about the game part than any promised story.
In my opinion, for Magic to really grow, they need to introduce 7th Edition rules. They need to rethink how the entire game is played. Yes, that's a big ask, but at this point in time, for enfranchised players, it's just more of the same. Card B replaces card A, Card C replaces card B, and on and on. The gameplay has largely become stale at this point. Every format has their goldfish decks. Every format has their must have cards that are excessively pricey. The game itself has far more pressing matters to deal with than the story.
@@Xoulrath_ To me, the state of the game itself is a COMPLETELY different topic, which admittedly can get stale seeing the same patterns of powercreep and recurring archetypes. I think for a lot of people, the characters and lore of the game are a big potential draw, and at the end of the day the longevity of the game depends on drawing in new players. That being said, I think I'm at the point where I drift in and out of Magic for about 6 months to a year at a time, but despite that, I'm always tempted to revisit it.
@@Xoulrath_ then go somewhere where they're talking about those things. It's possible to care about more than one thing.
By the time Double Masters 4 comes out, the price will be so high that Wizards might as well send you some raw lumber to justify the price. Some 2x4s with your 2X4, as it were.
Lmao, as if WotC cares about justifying the price of their products
@@sandwichboy1268 i got no problems holding onto my cards for long term. at least 20 years.
@@ChickenMcThiccken I wish a leaky roof to all card hoarders
I think the IP of MtG WAS popular, but honestly I'd say over the last 10-12 years there seems to have been a BIG shift in how they treat the Magic world.
Back in the day they used to have cycles of stories, and the story used to MOVE ONE, but WotC changed this to have the story based around the main planeswalkers and NEVER MOVE ON from there!
There is some logic of this strategy, but overall the game suffers as the you miss out on epics like the Weatherlight saga.
There ARE non-planeswalker-focused stories, but they are relegated to "side-stories" that you have to dig through their website to find. That's a damn shame. Because Magic has always been about more than the Planeswalkers.
Hell, Gerard had multi block stories really. Chasing Volrath. Well, dealing with.
I remember opening boosters of Hour of Devastation, and seeing the story unfolding from the cards. I haven't seen a set before or since then that came close to the story telling that HoD had, and most people consider that a "bad" set.
Both cinematic trailers for the recent innistrad sets were very good.
The editing has absolutely sold me on these new episodes, they're so good
Yeah, I noticed that too. The editing on this episode is great!
The island in the sun bit killed me
I believe Prof is talking about the 1997 Microprose PC game which was called Magic: The Gathering but apparently people refer to it by the world it was set in, Shandalar. And I think it was just mostly base set cards and later introduced more cards in another expansion. But you could build amazing broken decks with multiples of Power 9.
A property I loved was called Culdcept Saga. It was monopoly and instead of putting down houses or hotels you put down creatures from your deck. It was fantastic and thought it would have been a really good reskin with Magic.
I never played any expansion, but aye, it was basically revised and 4th edition... and the power 9 and astral cards hidden in the dungeons.
Man, this episode made me go back and watch the WAR trailer. My goodness, it still gets me right in the feels.
The IP by nature becomes less valuable as there’s no way to be familiar with it outside of playing the game. You can tell by how many crossovers come to MTG, versus MTG crossing over to other games. It’s because there’s no new people just into the lore/vibe of mtg anymore
A lot of that has to do with the oversaturation of the fantasy swords and sorcery tropes. The stuff exists everywhere. I grew tired of it before I even got out of high school. Over the last almost three decades it's just gotten worse. And that's all Magic is as a storyline: swords and sorcery, barbarians and fireballs, dragons, giants, small mischievous creatures up to no good, and everything in between.
@@Xoulrath_ See the thing is I don't think that's even really the case anymore. Early Magic maybe, back when it was just larping around on Dominaria, but we have Ravnica and Innistrad and Kamigawa and all these other planes that break away from tired fantasy tropes. If Magic's still seen as generic boring fantasy, I think that's more them not knowing how to handle their own brand.
@@nathanl8622 dude, none of those planes pulls away from the swords and sorcery fantasy theme. They are all centered around it in some way. I mean I guess that Neon Dynasty tried to have a more cyberpunk feel to it, but it was still just more of the same old, same old, with a new coat of paint as far as I'm concerned.
I don't mean to come off as so harsh, but because I genuinely love this game, I question its future. Hasbro continues to push the cost of new product ever higher. Mechanics are honestly being recycled at this point as far as gameplay goes. The game is fast becoming stale, and I say that as someone who has taken several a long and healthy break from it over the 25 years since I started.
I'm extremely cynical that having minor differentiating factors between planes like Ravnica and Shadowmoor have any real difference in how the story would be told. They've focused on planeswalkers for a while now, so yeah, uh, "Planeswalker good guy beats Planeswalker bad guy." It doesn't matter what the differences are when the basic blueprint is the same.
Speaking of similar blueprints, to be fair to WotC, I guess that Innistrad does feel different enough from a typical swords and sorcery trope (far more than Ravnica at least), so I'll concede that point. But even then, it's still pretty fantasy trope with angels and knights and swords and magic.
So I guess that I care about the story aspect, not for me because I don't care, but for those who do want it. I am well aware that different people get different things out of this game, and I've known a Vorthos or two in my day. So I'm all for Wizards doing far more with the story, for those who want it, than has been done so far. But not at the expense of the game itself, which is still in a very dangerous spot with a lot of quality competition all around. So for me, this just seems like a very weird talk that isn't going to get many actual players and buyers of cards on board. In that regard, the story does hurt the game.
@@Xoulrath_ I mean, the game's called *Magic* the Gathering. Fantasy is in its blood, and turning its back on that is the worst thing it can do (hence why every time they've tried that with UBs people hated it)
Also... Ravnica is undeniably fantasy, but I wouldn't call it swords and sorcery. Unless your criteria is literally just "has swords" and "has sorcery." Like Mirrodin, Amonkhet, and New Capenna share some tropes, but the way they handle them is wildly different. If they're all interchangeable sword and sorcery to you I think that's a you problem
"outside playing the game"
Read the lore? Even new Planes
The best use of magic's IP in resent time was Children of the Nameless by Brandon Sanderson and the idiots at wizards didn't even kept it available I think that if wizards will give Brandon the freedom to continue tell the story of the characters he created in Children it would be for the best
He'll never work with them again, nor should he. The bad faith WotC showed in that deal should be enough for anyone to look at and know that unless there is an explicit contract and ample money on the table they're an absolute no-go as far as a business relationship goes.
Vince is simultaneously both underselling the Horus Heresy novels from the Black Library, *and* overselling them: there are actually *54* individual numbered volumes in the "main" series (a mixture of novels and anthologies of short stories/novellas) covering points up to the start of the actual Siege of Terra... but only *6* Siege of Terra novels (with a 7th coming out "soon") and a pair of novellas, they haven't actually made 50 of those (and that is very much not the plan, I think the full count will be somewhere in the region of "10 or so"). There's also a Horus Heresy series he didn't bring up though about the Primarchs (17 published/announced novels and 3 anthologies, so far - there will be at least 1 more novel), and then 3 more Horus Heresy "character novels" (with presumably more to come).
And that's "just" the Horus Heresy stuff: in addition to all the "books and series about various 40K factions/conflicts", that get the normal 40K branding - of which there are... many - you have Necromunda novels/anthologies, the "Warhammer Crime" novels/anthologies, and Warhammer Horror novels/anthologies (though that one at least is split between stuff set in 40K and stuff set in their fantasy setting(s)) - it came out a number of years back that, at the time at least, the Black Library was overall more profitable than the parts of Games Workshop making the ostensible "main line" product of the table-top games.
It's very hard to imagine a world where non-card game uses of the Magic IP ever come remotely close to that feat, based on how they've been using the license over its history.
To add on how powerful a running TV show would help Magic in the long run we just need to look how successful Yugioh based on how popular the show is and how it affected sales. Along with that it can provide a very powerful tool to expand the lore, make something small like basic lands feel larger and more lived in, or focus on a small part the universe like how the old CHAOTIC TV show handled it’s universe. Best part if they use that method is they could definitely time it to each season (12ish episodes) to each main set.
No love for the Crimson Vow cinematic. While not as good as War, it was certainly a good one.
Edit: As I realize now I even forgot about the Midnight Hunt cinematic. Which is funny because that's the set I was more excited about of the two because werewolves.
Been saying for years, if you want to do a magic series, make it an anime.
Won't have to worry about finding the right actors and won't have rubbish CGI.
Re MTG trailers: The Japanese Anime trailer for Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty was incredible (and im not even an anime fan) Easily the best one with War of the Spark.
The visuals were nice on the Kamigawa trailer, but it was too hard to figure out what the story line was since they kept jumping around and there were no words other than the song. Also the fact that it was anime made it seem disconnected from the rest of the Magic story line. A planeswalker going to a new plane does not make them change the way they look. They could have connected it to Japanese culture without making it anime.
Theres actually one instance of magic giving its IP for something else to use a romance manga called "destroy all humankind they can't be regenerated", it uses 90's magic cards directly and they have full 90's style magic duels. I don't know the licensing of it but it doesn't have a official English translation of it.
I'd love some MtG minis to paint! (I guess there is always 3d printing)
There are MTG miniature board games that were released...
It would be a nightmare for any writing studio to try and keep up with the release schedule the sets are under which currently manifests in an endless Preview Season and that's why we don't get any sort of story tension or buildup like Brian is discussing early on in the video.
Beyond that, it's pretty clear that WotC focus groups out anything interesting and tries to please some imaginary 'average' audience so much that they end up missing everyone instead. With the WotS novels they managed to both anger longtime fans and become a laughing stock for people who might have tried it out which is why we've seen this huge push afterward to incorporate other IPs. WotC is pulling all of these outside narratives into the game system because they can attach to those stories instead of actually developing their own outside of flashcard-action-tidbits which largely occur in the background behind everything else...
Apropos of cats and dogs, Homeward Bound was a great film from my childhood. Watched that VHS all the time.
Vince should start a RUclips channel. He sounds like a fun guy.
It sounds almost as if Magic: The Gathering lore would benefit from the age old comic of a Crisis event. The point in which some massive multiverse event results in us jumping to a multiverse jump/reset and we start from scratch with story.
If Karn, as rumored, really does have to go back in time, and "reset the multiverse" to prevent New Phyrexia from compleating the whole thing, then that might be what you're looking for. Since Crisis does involve at least a little "time travel" to justify their universal resetting (courtesy of the Flash characters).
Crisis on Infinite Planes?
If there was a novel in a bundle for every set like in the past I would look forward to every single one. And not feel set overload because I'd have a coherent story to sink my teeth into. I'm just discovering all the old MTG books and am going to start with Rath and Storm, and the weather light saga. So excited
Also with how popular commander has become in scope of a 4 player more casual game id love to see a return to the planechase format, I never got to play it physical but it was on one of the duels of the planeswalker games and it was really neat
Planechase was really fun to play physical! It’s a shame they became so expensive 🙈
The main reason WOTC doesn't make more books is because of control. They want to control every aspect of the story line. That's not how books are made, the writer creates the story line based on his or her imagination, i also believe the writer doesn't have the rights of the book. They get a one time fee. I believe that's why no writer wants to make a book and instead we get horrible short stories. WOTC wants to to control to much.
Wizards control freak issues keep biting them i nthe ass, few years ago they pissed off D&D fandom when they tried to bully their subcontractors by stonewalling them until they don't...I'm not even sure what the plan was, renegotiate their deal to give WotC more control?
They should just change their name to DOTC (Dictators of the Coast), because that's what their tight-fisted controlling of Magic feels like to the general public.
That's a pretty distorted and somewhat romanticized view of the book writing process. Especially for licensed material, but writing something because a publisher pitches an idea is also a commonplace thing in the literary world. And writers for the most part have no issue with this setup; for instance, the reason why bridges have been burned between Sanderson and WotC wasn't because they imposed control over aspects of Children of the Nameless, it's because they reneged on their promise of keeping the novella free to download.
It's that, plus... they're just not very creative. They can't do storytelling for dogs, and what few neat ideas they have (like Tamiyo's compleation) they either overmilk or just toss away, doing nothing with.
the eliminster d&d book series is worthy
Id love a monopoly secret lair
Full circle
IMO the thing is, it's only until very, very recently that Wizards has begun to treat Magic as an IP and expand it to an audience that's beyond it's core audience. For better or for worse, Magic has always dedicated it's story and content for Magic players and people who love Magic- but it's never really tried to cater to people who otherwise don't necessarily *know* Magic. That's why you get these ads and trailers that feel so cookie cutter- they're trying to reach those kinds of people.
And that's not really a bad thing- what I think people miss out on is just how high the barrier for entry to recognizing Magic is. It's like if pop culture interests were a circle and the most common way to enter a circle is through an intersecting circle, then Magic is a circle that has very few intersections. I've been into anime, comics, games, and trading card games for most of my life but it's only for the past 5 years that Magic has really fallen under my radar, and it was because of Magic Arena providing an accessible entry point into the game. Magic is popular to the people that know it, and there are a lot of them, but sometimes you see how many people inside a circle and think that it's already a lot and miss just how small it is compared to the number of people *outside* the circle.
The problem with Magic's recognition as an IP is that has had a lot of other media over the years, but most if not all of it like the novels & comics caters to the already existing fanbase. In R&D terms, Magic is like a parasitic mechanic that cares only about itself and not how it interacts with anything that's not Magic. Street Fighter can have Secret Lairs because Magic players are likely to be Street Fighter fans, but the reverse might not be true. But Street Fighter can do that AND have cultural staying power because they've done the homework. There's Street Fighter movies, anime, merchandise, etc. Or take Pokemon- there are Pokemon fans that *just* play Pokemon GO, just play the console games, just collect the cards, just watch the anime, or just collect the merchandise because they're cute. But there are more than a dozen entry points that can potentially lead people to become a Pokemon fan and engage with the IP in multiple ways, each one potentially benefiting the others. Media mix strategies are so successful because they do just that. But with Magic? There is no Saturday morning cartoon, no RUclips series, no anime, no non-card game video game that random people can stumble upon, then think "Hey, this Magic thing seems pretty cool and the characters are neat enough, maybe I *should* try playing the actual card game even if I have to learn how to do it."
The good thing is, the core Magic product itself is already really, really strong as anyone that plays Magic can attest to. It has so many compelling characters and settings waiting to be fully explored, and I truly feel it's one the greatest games ever made. WotC & Hasbro just needs to create more and more ways for everyone not already in the know to care about it, which I feel they've been doing very slowly over the past couple of years. But even for something like with Marvel and the MCU, it took over two decades for them to get to this point, and they started with having to sell their film rights to a bunch of studios because they almost went bankrupt in the 90's. It takes time.
Magic as an IP can make it big, but they really need to introduce more ways for people to interact with Magic that's not with a card game.
i say hasbro strike a deal with arcsys; and have them create one badass 2d fighting game. wanna bring in street fighter fans into magic. then this is the way!
How about an anthology animated series? Uncharted Realms but animated, for wider appeal and worldbuilding. Babystep into longer form storytelling. Super easy.
This reminds me that MTG has a manga. But it's japanese-only.
And MTG has second to no ground in the japanese TCG market.
Sooo maybe that's why it wasn't expanded upon such as an anime or an English version- not successful there.
That's not quite the case- MTG is pretty popular in Japan and even ranked fifth for revenue in 2019, beating out Cardfight Vanguard. It's true that it's not as big as Yugioh or Pokemon, but it's got a sizeable following especially for the adult demographic (most of the other TCG in Japan are aimed at children) and a vibrant competitive scene. (The number of Japanese MTG pro players can attest to that.)
Plus, recently there's been a notable push to promote MTG in Japan that seems to be successful. Looking at the Japanese MTG RUclips channel or Twitter account, there's been lots of Japan-only promotions, web shows, and even TV spots. So you can expect it to only get even more popular there from now on.
@@raseaces Huh. I guess I just haven't been following as much as I thought I am...
I will check all of that out!
I can really think of four pieces of self published content created for MTG on MTG's IP I've consumed: Office Hours, the skits and music videos of Remy (which are mostly on the game aspect themselves), Spice's analysis on Police Abolishionism and Eugenics through MTG characters and Brandon Sanderson's novel.
Of those, the only one that feels close to what Kenobi and the Prof were talking about is Sanderson's. And that needed someone like the man himself ASKING WotC to make the novel FOR FREE. AND THEN THEY SCREWED HIM OVER.
In fact they did print Gaea's cradle on a planeswalker. My favorite gruul boi
Yeah, WOTC really needs to just catch up to how fandoms work and just go all in. That and hire folks that are competent at writing intriguing and meaningful narrative, invest in that specifically. Also, I sincerely hope there is somebody that watches this podcast and takes notes.
Well said. I'd write for them! I'd do it for chump change or maybe even do the first one for free to get my foot in the door and see if they like me. I bet a thousand other fans of the game would too, and from those thousand stories I'm sure they'd have some real gems to choose from!
It's a bit late for it to be relevant
The story leading up to War of the Spark, a novel written by Django Wexler that got published through an email newsletter (of all places) is one of the best Magic novels written _ever_ and it got like no press and no reach 🙃
God, I'd completely forgotten about that. It was published as a weekly e-mail newsletter and it was delayed so that it actually got published well after the War of the Spark novel did. 🙃 indeed!!
Listening to it on Voice of All was an unforgettable experience!
I remember when I first opened the War of the Spark novel, how the prologue features Niv-Mizzit's ghost and thinking, "Wait, Niv died? That's news to me." And that was because that should have had setup that didn't come until later.
I can’t find the video now, but there was a ~45 minute video here on YT about Nico Bolas’ lore and I was gripped the entire time. There’s actually a lot to work with when you dive into it but I do find it odd that there’s never any attempt to do so.
Fun fact, according to IMDB, the Magic the Gathering show is set to come out this year!
And netflix is apparently confident enough about it coming out soon that they are letting you add it to your list.
I treat the Magic the Gathering show the same way I treat a new Game of Thrones (ASOIAF) book: something I assume won't happen, but I will be happy if it does. That way I don't get disappointed if it never happens, but don't totally write it off either.
We had Manastrike, which, even though was a very flawed game, it was genuinely pretty awesome. Nobody knows it even existed and died. One of my favorite mobile games of all time.
I literally came down here to say Manastrike was an okay game that died within a year of release for what felt like no reason.
@@ThisAreOr zero advertisement. Should have been front page of arena on the daily. If wotc actually funded and advertised it it could have gotten more money and been a great game
i find this episode extremely interesting because i didn't even know magic existed until a few months ago and now i love it. What makes D&D and League of Legends more popular and recognizable than Magic?
The nature of being a card game with expensive buy-in points robs it of the ability to easily draw in new players. I was first introduced to the game when I was 12, and the rules were complex enough that I just lost interest, likely to the disappointment of the woman trying to teach me.
D&D is considerably older and has a much broader cultural following than MTG, and is also much easier to get into. And League of Legends is basically just your typical blockbuster game. MTG is definitely something that doesn't get hardly any traction outside its fan community. It's an interesting question to ponder why, and my best guess is that it's a mixture of too esoteric and too hard to explain.
I might be missing the joke but Xenagos the reveler is a gaia's cradle on a planeswalker and better with it adding green and red to the pool
"Cats & Dogs" was a movie about cats being evil take-over-the-world organization and the good dog "secret-agents" trying to stop them, all while pretending to be house pets.
But... Gaea's Cradle WAS printed onto a planeswalker, and actually improved. Xenagos can add red or green.
Can't untap xenagos with arbor elf
@@landfilltarantulas4403 uuuh, cant untap Cradle with Arbor Elf either.
Besides, Chain Veil exists if you want to repeat Xenagos's effect. And provides you the mana to use Veil.
@Rod Rombauer true. My bad, but I stand by my point, untapping a land is easier than repeated xenagos activations
"Won't be as good as Arcane" which is true and there are few shows better than that. I have such a hard time convincing people to watch it because it is one of the best things to ever come out of western animation. Also Arcane took about 10 years to complete and they were willing to create a niche show that didn't need to appeal to everyone.
Hasbro will never allow a show to be niche in the same way Arcane was because this is the same company that holds the Transformers IP. Unless there's someone at Hasbro willing to throw money at something and let it sit to grow overtime, which they aren't due to the nature of corporations and a cyclical leadership cycle, it's not gonna happen. Riot Games still as their founders on staff who are willing to sit and wait to make something good instead of something to prove my worth in the company. They also have a cash cow of a really quite good and fun game (ignore the user base. the game is fun) which allows good shows like Arcane to happen.
Please people watch Arcane. It is simply phenomenal.
they should probably get rid of those founders, if they were with the company when they started policing women for being women
Arcane may be the best thing to come out of League of Legends
I would watch Arcane, but League of Legends
I watched the first 5 episodes of arcane and dropped it... while I think the animation is incredible and the story/themes are great, I had a hard time caring about any characters after episode 3. It feels like they focused a bit too much on style and coolness and fan service at the expense of more subtle moments and deeper character interactions. Maybe it's just not my cup of tea.
If mtg had a anime or cartoon even if it was Terrible it'd be miles better then arcane.
Clearly not popular enough that they feel the need to borrow other IP's to help make it sell.
@@blaze556922 Most of the crossovers seem more popular than magic though. MLP, DnD, Godzilla, Walking Dead, Transformers, Stranger Things, LoL, LoTR
The thing about brawl, I was super excited for it and had all the cars I needed for a Tezzeret the schemer instant win deck. Built it, was super happy with it, no one to play with and it rotated out before I had a chance to get any real games. It was a sad day for me
I enjoy both games. My play group for 40k petered out due to "adulthood " ... a few of us die hards continue to play MTG ... the novels in the 40k universe is dark and layered. Great video guys.
I'm a fairly new player to Magic. I've tried a few times to get into the storyline, but I can't figure out a good way to do that outside of RUclips explainers.
I actively avoid MOBAS like League of Legends, but thanks to Arcane I know more about the lore than I do Magic.
Even if it doesn't hit that level of quality, shows like DOTA and Rage of Bahamut really bring people into the world. All the show needs to do is exist and not be terrible.
There is a manga called Wizard's Soul - Koi no Seisen that is basically the writer's love letter to Magic. It's original enough while maintaining basic playability and really gets into ideas like combo versus aggro and the difference between control and prison strategies. One of the better moments is when during a game a player attacks with the equivalent of a 1/1 and the defender shrugs it off because it's literally the smallest creature possible, only to show through bounce and removal and counterspells, over 20 turns, they're dead. Basically 20 panels of "...and attack you for 1". Lots and lots of fan translations out there to check out.
Have you heard of 'Destroy all Humanity. They can't be Regenerated. '? Its about kids playing mtg in the late 90s and goes over the meta and card releases at the time and mixes it with a highschool slice of life
@@kriptonite981 It's interesting that they're not obfuscating any of the Magic cards. Is this like with the blessing of WotC or do they just ngaf?
@@matthewivans8590 i assume its with wotc permission. The sent out tokens with art of the main characters with kamigawa booster boxes in japan
I feel like I just watched everyone of your...podcasts? In the opening skit and I loved it!
If I could make a comment that might be completely out of my depth. I think the setting is actually a pretty good reason why you don't see a lot of fanwork about MTG as opposed to other IPs.
Why would I make a movie about Innistradt, when I could just make one set in the usual Gothic world? Why set a story in Theros as opposed to just writing my own Greek myth? Why go to Strixhaven when I can do Harry Potter or any of a half a dozen other mage school settings out there? Why put my fan project in Dominaria at all? Is Benalia really that interesting? If I wanted a pseudo-medieval fantasy nation Gondor and Westeros both have way more depth and personality in the setting. And I think people are drawn to that.
And part of that is just how the game is set up. And honestly for the game that's a good thing. You can bounce around to a dozen different worlds with completely different aesthetics and issues and make a kick ass card set. But a lot of these settings are going to be pretty skin deep and often drawing from other more well realized sources of inspiration. I think only Ravnica really comes out of it looking really deep and its own unique thing.
What sets Magic apart and made it special has always been the magic system, with the color wheel and mana. But that's a game mechanic. You don't see people making stuff about 40K because they like the method for determining movement and range of the pieces. They write a lot about 40K because it owns its very particular oppressively dark setting that is pervasive through all of it billion planets. People love the factions and the brutality and so they are invested in recreating it.
For MTG the best the color wheel gets us is personality tests to determine which Ravnica house you belong to.
Other than that, we have to rely on the characters. And on average... they're fine. I guess. I've read more interesting characters, I've read less interesting. Some are better than others. But on the whole, they're, you know, fine. And that's not enough.
I don't even think the color wheel has that much of an identity. Over time they've given most colors abilities that don't fit into their assigned areas, it was always going to be a limiting design choice for the game.
I think its mostly known for being the trading card game, with probably lands being the most recognizable mechanic from it just because its a bit archaic so newer games don't try to copy it.
I'd say its the weakest of the big three in terms of identity and reputation. Games like runeterra and hearthstone have popular IPs to work from and have more innovative mechanics coming from a more experienced position design wise, it turns out lands slow the game down and cause a lot of unintended problems in deck building of you have them in a game.
Its a lot harder to replicate the game play experience of pokemon or yugioh on the other hand. Yugioh hasn't had a promotional anime airing alongside the game for like 2 years, the game has grown in a large part because people like its game play and good luck trying to replicate it.
What magic has going for it is it has the biggest community, and that what makes people keep coming back to it. Not to mention that any "improved" game system also inevitably comes up to a point where their mechanics break and people are likely to flock back to MTG. There's been a good amount of bad spots in MTG history, cough cough companions, but you can be reasonable sure you will still have a play group and things will get fixed eventually.
To be honest, I've never really been grabbed by the MTG IP. I like the cards, I like playing occasionally. I like collecting pretty things. But the only story elements that really grabbed me is the D&D ones. :) I'll show myself out.
It's a lot more character focused. If you don't resonate with the characters then it won't really matter.
I love how honest you are with all your videos!
I would really love if they adopted the Whispering Woods book into a series. You know, the classic Greensleeves discovering her magic, the drama of the Wizard's plans, etc.
TBF, Riot is really really f'ing good at multimedia. They spend a lot of time focusing on making really good things that elevate the main brand rather than shallow attempts at promotion or cheap cash grabs.
because the leadership of the company are people born and raised around the age of internet.
companies like wotc and gw have extremely traditional values and stick to them because the companies was started before the internet age.
Funny enough, Wotc has tried something similar to one of the alternatives, specifically comics. (manga in the case, but still)
Problem is, they targeted the japanese market. Which is already dominated by other card games big and small.
And once that didn't fly they didn't do anything with it.
@@spiritwildfiregaming1975 WotC has a very long tradition at half assing everything that is outside printing cards. I think its mainly because they do not have the right people managing the merchandising aspect of their company.
For the most part, the Magic IP isn't doing anything you can't find elsewhere. High-concept theme park worlds have been a genre staple since before Star Trek in the 60s. Other anthology IPs like Final Fantasy and DnD have iconic creatures they can use to set themselves apart from other universes.
If you look at the playable cast of Magic Legends- the most recent attempt by MtG to break into video games- the only indication that the characters are from Magic is that the black preacher has the symbol of Avacyn on his robe. Is the Dimir assassin even wearing Dimir's logo?
Avacyn for ever!! The only good thing for me is the whole Avacyn thing saddly she isn‘t anymore but i hope she comes back my angel of hope 🥰.
Been catching up on Dies to Removal all day while at work, awesome :)
Homeword Bound is my favorite dog & cat movie. Haven’t seen it in years but it was on heavy rotation during my childhood.
I disagree with the Prof's assessment of "old Magic story is too convoluted." I think the success of the Witcher netflix show indicates that people are more than willing to digest a complex, lore-rich story that is entertaining.
The Witcher has a main character which makes it easy to follow. Magic has like 40 main characters, that's why it's too convoluted
@@thomasdick6797 depends on the point in time they want to tell the story. Game of Thrones was massively successful and there’s no reason mtg couldn’t have something comparable in terms of quality and complexity. Especially given that transformers got like 5 movies from papa Hasbro and wizards way out earns transformers
@@thomasdick6797 Like over half the “old” lore (which they define as pre-mending) is basically the Weatherlight crew though.
@@thomasdick6797 Yes but the old story, really only had a handful in the weatherlight crew, they could make the weather light saga in to a whole show.
@@thomasdick6797 Game of thrones has multiple characters that could be considered main characters. Warhammer 30k/40k too.
"destroy all humans they can't be regenerated" is a great manga that is about playing mtg in japan in the 90's. It is a fun read. And it's physical copies have promo mtg cards. I think it would be cool to see you read it and give your opinion on it.
Were the cards not in Japanese only tho?
@@spiritwildfiregaming1975 Yeah I think so for the promos.
The RedLetterMedia bit in the beginning is fantastic.
Magic’s strongest aspect is it’s settings. You don’t get very much character-based lore, but each card is piece of worldbuilding for the plane.
I'd like to add to that first bit: Failing to bring over to the west the AMAZING MTG manga being made in Japan. The Destroy all Humanity It Can't Be Regenerated manga is SOOOOO good. Very disappointed they haven't given us an English release yet.
This is the Best, Satire and Serious ...Keep it up Prof!
There was a time that you could buy a "fat pack" for the new set that included a full visual catalog of the cards in the set and also a 250 to 400 page paperback novel related to the set.
The books were amazing!
I rewatched the intro like 5 times.
perfection.
I mean, the long and short of it is the MtG IP isn't actually well known. Magic is known, and I'd say a lot of people know about like a Black Lotus. But people don't know Jace, or Urza, or the Weatherlight, or Elspeth, or the Praetors, or Eldrazi or anything else. It's just with so many planes and so many characters, you don't get to connect with the characters. And playing the game the only connection you get is if they've been mentioned in some flavour text and their own cards- it's not a lot to get their personality. While playing League or Dota or whatever else your character is commenting, talking the whole time, and interacting with other characters. How do I get attached to Ajani when Ajani hasn't been in a set since War of the Spark? Or how do I get interested in Garruks redemption, when he just appeared in Eldraine and hasn't been touched since? If I want to have fun in Dota and feel like Tidehunter, I just play a game. If I want to feel like Ajani, I need to construct a specific deck and try to get a game in whatever format (only to beaten down because my decks not competitive)
And then you have every different plane, and nothing really ties them together. It's just the planeswalkers fighting over different themed arenas. Magics themings are very very loose, so it's harder to grasp on to them.
EDIT: The Street Fighter set was little to nothing to do with the new game still.
Its known mostly for a bunch of sweaty, 30 to 40 year old white guys taking it oh so seriously. Yugioh is in a similar spot, but the anime at least has a pretty large cultural influence so there is an identity for the game besides that.
The LRR series of FNM-related shorts is what got me out of kitchen table and into competitive Magic
I love that Vince is a huge Warhammer 40K fan. This adds so much for me as a fan of both MTG and 40k. Thanks for this episode. I REALLY enjoyed this.
the editor quips are quickly becoming my fave part of TCC vods. great hire!
WotC abandoned their IP years ago in favor of fast-cash marketing schemes and over-saturated product cycles
The Phyrexians were trounced by the Sarpadian thrulls when they tried to invade the continent. The Phyrexians studied the thrulls and ultimately concluded that once the thrulls wiped out other sentient life on Sarpadia and found nowhere else to expand, they'd turned inward and focused on their own improvement. New strains of thrulls had been bred repeatedly, their power growing unchecked for many centuries. By the time of the invasion, the thrulls had become so powerful that the Phyrexians were not even a threat to them. The Phyrexians abadoned their Sarpadian campaign, fearing that if the thrulls ever developed an interest in expansion beyond the confines of Sarpadia, that the entire multiverse might be at risk. Dominaria Compleat? More like Phyrexia Enthrulled.
Lest you think the op was joking, this is something that was mentioned during the invasion period of mtg
I love the Prof’s AD&D 2e collection on the bookshelf behind him. The man has good taste!
As a Yugioh fan, we've recently been getting the lore of our cards and archetypes filled out through both Japanese product and Master Duel. MTG needs to step it up. Their age is starting to show.
Magic could actually make a great Elderscrolls, or Dragon Age, or Final Fantasy type game, even a more difficult, rugged Souls-esque game; or even like a Diablo A-RPG type game... I mean it could have been good.
I would KILL for an MTG style Skyrim.
MtG would actually make a really good Mass Effect-style game. Have your crew be various Planeswalkers you choose based on their abilities for the mission. Travel between Planes for different missions. Some inter-planar threat like Bolas or Eldrazi. Use Ravnica or Dominaria as a hub world.
Oh they tried an ARPG-ish-like game alright...
...I still don't want to think about how bad it was.
It seemed like Prof was just using Jace as the example since he & Kenobi were talking about the show that had Jace in it. But it did surprise me, since I honestly wouldn't pick Jace as the most recognizable MtG Planeswalker. I suppose the universally recognized planeswalker (by the general United States public) would be Chandra?
Back in the day (mid-2010s), Jace was the most recognized and liked Planeswalker in MTG by far, according to Mark Rosewater. A few years ago he said that Chandra, who had always been number two, had closed most of the gap. It'd be interested to see where the rankings stand now. It's hard to imagine anyone but one of those two being the most recognized, but I'd be prepared to go along with you that Chandra is actually better known now.
Chandra is becoming more popular recently because Wizards of the Coast made her the face of different sets. But I think that Jace is closer to the character that the majority of players identify with: a white male who is smarter than the average person. That sums up the majority of the Magic player base. While other characters like Chandra can certainly be popular (it helps that she's presented as attractive), but Jace has a built in advantage that keeps him in the running.
The biggest problem is there's so many good and different stories in MTG. Like take Marvel and you ask "Who is the main villain?" and a lot of people will say Thanos. There's not just Thanos though. You got MODOK, Galactus, Dormammu, Kang, Knull, and that's just super villain territory. MTG you ask "Who is the main villain?" and War of the Spark that's Nicol Bolas. Zendikar it's Ob Nixilis, and there's the Eldrazi. There's a ton of lore to go off of. MTG it's like DC comics dilemma. You got a lot of 'infinite multiverses' it's just a matter of pick one and tell it. Just don't Batman V Superman. Go the Arcane route whatever that is for MTG.
Hey Prof, just wanted to say that I listen to this before going to bed and the new sound bits (music, samples, etc) while cool and flashy make it hard to relax. I usually set a timer to fall asleep with the talk, to have sth interesting to listen to after a day of work.
One of the worst things about the game’s IP is its name. When I say magic people think of magicians.
Also the tv show made yugioh and Pokémon. Random people still know what those games are because of the shows
The intro hits like a train. But here we are still buying, who's the real clowns?
To be fair I would love a mtg series based on the brothers war (before, during and aftermath) and also the whole weatherlight plot (weatherlight, rath, invasion)
As always Prof and Vince have a great dynamic in this video. Love knowing Prof also enjoyed the old Master of Orion games!
'sometimes you lose at commander'
That’s when I first laughed out loud haha
Unfortunately, I've found there's a large group of players who are resistant to MtG being anything more than a card game.
that's surely due to lack of quality alternative magic media. I'm not longing for a new Mario movie for example, but if the first one was good, maybe i'd have a different tune.
Does that matter? Those players can continue to not care about MTG outside the card game. Others will enjoy it.
This reminds me of how a lot of people agree with "Calvin and Hobbes" author's decision not to turn the comic into a TV show because they assumed (probably correctly) that they'd screw it up. People are afraid that a Magic the Gathering TV show would be a poor representation as well. Though because Magic is far more varied in its source material, there seems to be less danger about making a bad show since you could just come up with another show with different characters and try again. A TV show about a comic strip would be closer connected to the IP of the comic strip (sort of like how people connect Garfield the comic strip and the TV show and Peanuts the comic strip and the TV show).
I was stunned when I saw the New Capenna ad with Ross Kemp. Talk about star power.
that yep yep editing gag was incredible