I feel this terminal velocity feeling as well. When's the last time a group buy felt like I was part of something bigger? For better and worse, it seems that we've hit industrial efficiency for the hardware. I think maybe we as enthusiasts should start pushing for more professionalization in the distributors? I love the transparency that taeha has been trying to add in the shadiness of some of the vendors and wonder if there's anyone who has the capital and leadership to make in stock, premium keyboards. Given latest offerings from gaming brands and the fact that Corsair bought Drop may mean that this level of entry level aluminum cast or even cnc board will be readily available at Best buy or target soon
@@Keybored perhaps but maybe enthusiast keyboard brands also begin to start diversifying their offerings for peripherals and the hobby becomes collecting all sorts of high quality products made with premium materials like aluminum, stainless steel, and carbon fiber etc
Mode is the leader in this space. They actually function like a real company and have real support, a real website, hit their deadlines, etc. No company is perfect but they are the bar that other vendors should be held up to
It's a big turn off, especially when the solder PCB for some reason implements the same odd south and west facing switch sockets when it's completely unnecessary. It only makes for interference with caps lock (where I put control) and enter, directly in the problem row (R3) with GMK CYL.
Once you're in the hobby long enough, you know what switches, spring weights, sounds, mounting systems, form factors, design languages, etc. that you prefer. I know exactly what products serve me, and its the only ones I pay attention to anymore. I know which vendors are tried and true, I know which design labs have successfully run previous boards, and I know that boards these days punch far above their weight class more often than not. This is definitely terminal velocity for keeb projects, but if you're fully self-aware of your preferences... then this is also a new golden age for keebs. The number of extras and in-stock items alone is incredible. A big salute to the hard-working vendors across the globe!
In terms of functionality, hall effect switches are very interesting for gaming. I have a Wooting 60HE and I'm trying to make it sound as good as I can. The switches need a lot of work though, but I would never use a conventional keyboard for gaming at this point. It has really good mapping capabilites also, allowing me to have dedicated arrows on a 60% keyboard.
This is exactly what I was thinking throughout the video. If we had a board of the Jris quality with the HE switches/wooting software, it'd be a whole different ball game. That is probably the next frontier.
Hall effect switches have never been proven to be generally effective, yes on paper it should put you in an advantage however if you’re not a top/pro player it probably won’t benefit you at all, + currently no good HE keyboard/switches are good (sound and feel wise)
@@FrenchManZary1 sound wise they're just rgb housing clack, which i don't mind personally. feel wise they are smoother than virtually all mx linears but lack a lot of spring options. optical hall effect will probably end up winning though just because of cost.
Got into this hobby only in Feb 2023 and I already have 2 Kailh hotswap sockets collapse like that (on different PCBs, one I got in May, one in Sep I think), had to use a tweezer to force the contacts in. One was after swapping the switch twice, the second happended upon the first switch install. Personally I think there's still a lot that can evolve with the components inside keyboards once the related tech/manufacturing processes become cheaper. Like fold-in switch pins to make them harder to bend (like in Cherry MX2A and Gateron G Pro 3.0), or maybe even completely new mechanisms that don't use pins at all, like ball contacts. Then there's magentic connections like on the QK75N. Screwless assemblies seen partly on this JRIS 80 and Jelly Evolv. We're still seeing manufacturers trying to perfect stabilizers, like the WS Stabs 3.1 that builds in silicone padding inside the stab stems. Spring crunch is still commonplace (don't know if the MX2A spring design fixes that). I think we're not at terminal velocity. We're at a plateau where all the obvious innovations have being done, and everyone's staring at the peak on the horizon but none of the big makers who have the scale and the capital wants to take that next big venture to even arrive at the foot of that next peak. Instead they're all looking to milk the market using their existing molds and manufacturing processes. The hobby needs a disruptive innovator with the capital to invest and the will to break compatibility, else we'll all just settle down on this plateau and stop moving.
Good point on devoting RUclips time to keyboard software. I wondered why nobody has established a RUclips channel with weekly tips on refining your QMK and ZMK firmware.
Yeah! It's not just you! In my old keebs (I gave them away to my friends), the Feker IK75 and GMK67 both have Kailh hotswap sockets and BOTH OF THEM at least 3-5 sockets are like pushed down and the switch I'm using during that time on those 2 keyboards are just the Gateron Milky Yellow Pro. I literally need to push the sockets from behind with a pin to make contact with the switch pins which is a total pain btw since I need to open those keyboards all over again and remove the tape mod. I never experienced this when I built my Keychron V1, Keychron Q1V2 and Zoom75 (those 3 uses Gateron hotswap sockets I think but correct me if I'm wrong) and I changed the switches of those boards more than the times I changed the switches on the 2 keyboards I mentioned above. I think Kailh sockets are just kinda "eh" in terms of quality I guess.
You should maybe take a look into the custom-er keyboards, which basically involve making your own pcb, with custom layout custom made for your hand. I am currently looking into making my own split column-staggered 40% board with choc switches
i share the same sentiments about the kailh hotswap sockets, im glad you brought this up because not many do. i check the pins of the switch and i try to make sure its straight in, then sometimes yeah it just collapses in. and i try to fix the hotswap pin holders but sometimes it doesnt work, and yeah my switch pin just kind of gets bent now because of the collapsed socket pin holder.. but i dunno i try to ignore it since functionally it works still.. but annoying
I think we are poised on the edge. We’ve had all of these interesting custom options;screens, dials, blockers, wireless modes, weight options etc. I think the next step is modularity, being able to chop and change elements and further honing your options according to your budget
The only think they should focus now is make it better in term of sound and typing with no help from foams at "entry" price. I think until now there is no actual TKL layout kit at 200-300$ price point that sound good with no foam. Regarding inovation, QK is actually the best of them when using magnetic connection in stead of cable. Love the design of QK75N and Neo70.
nice camera, I love all that features and low light performance ！！ I'm new to the mechanical keyboard world, and your video helped me understand some key aspects
I think you are right in regards to what we are doing right now. New switch designs and how they work, software and better prices are hopefully what we see over the next couple of years. Nice review and video but I miss the skit :) Board is nice and lively with or without the foam.
I never understood the hype of custom mechs, the crazy group buys, buying keycap sets for 3-4x their MSRP, boutique switches that cost over $1 per... I'm kinda glad we've reached this point with customs as it's always just been stuff manufactured in China and artificially hyped up to give the consumer a feeling of scarcity. Perfect example is doubleshot ABS and how people used to wait years or pay double or triple for them, only to now see that doubleshot PBT has always been objectively better in various ways while being much more affordable. I've moved on to watches as my new hobby now, and will be working on the keyboards I already have. All that said, the JRIS actually does sound pretty dang good. Thanks for the honest takes, Scott!
About the terminal velocity comment; I think that the mainstream has hit that blockage, but they could easily break through if they took some notes from the more niche keyboard spaces like the split-ergo hobby. The split-ergo hobby has come up with some insane innovations like e-ink displays, multiple knobs, and some far better (in my opinion) keyboard layouts. Also, I am surprised to see so little creativity in the keycap space. So many sets just use the same font and symbols as the last GMK set and slap a bigger pricetag on it. We need more sets redesigned by artists like the two I am running right now: Kon Momo and Milkshake. On the brightside, this terminal velocity has brought us better prices and better accessibility, especially for those new to this daunting hobby!
Next are hall effect keyboards, of course! Once we've ported all the features we have now (screens, wireless, and whatever else there is) to the hall effect keyboards, we'll just have to wait for the next innovation.
buying keyboards has definitely slowed down or died down but I feel like building your own keyboard though acrylic or 3d printing or modifying standard parts is still fun. I find no enjoyment in buying a hot swap keyboard kit, throwing in switches and keycaps and done. I mean you don't need to even lube your switches anymore, they come preluded. custom keyboard market has become too commercialized. would love to see a move back to a more diy approach then just buying. butttt keycap designers don't leave, we need youuuu! at least i feel we are in a better place for keycaps =)
Thanks for the video Scott!! I’d happily take more just general thoughts on the hobby / state of keyboards type commentary from you vs. more strictly review-focused videos. I’m sure your community would just generally enjoy whatever content you’re passionate about. I’ve personally largely moved away from HS PCBs due to issues with the sockets. If I want something hot-swappable, then I’d prefer to mill max, plus I also am afforded more customizability for the layout in most cases. Hope that Kailh gets it together regardless!!
Honestly the Jris boards seem definitely a bit more stiff than a Wuque/Meletrix boards and definitely not the comfort of an leaf spring like AM or Owlabs. However, I'm very impressed by the value boards like the Leobogs and Neos.
Exceptional Video! Quick question for you, or anyone else here. Can this PCB board utilize Screw in Stabilizers? Sorry if this is a noob question, but I just ordered this board and this will be my very first build when it comes to a Keyboard. Love the TKL! Any helpful suggestions are greatly welcomed. Thanks!
I just wish they would finally finish production. I guess thats the downside of groupbuy. You dont know if they ever deliver. I have such a nice build planned.
If nothing else, I think we've reached a point where hot swap mechanical keyboards are now a possibility for almost everyone who wants one. Sure, some of them are very cheap and lack certain features, but the fact that you can get a hot swap board for anywhere from like $20 to several hundred, means that at least almost everyone can make the move from membrane boards if they really want to. After that, it's really up to how much tinkering/modding you're willing to do and how big your budget is to get the components you want to get the feel/sound you're looking for.
Hall effect keyboards at an affordable price, and good open source software for remapping is one thing I can see the future of hardware giving us. But seeing as cheap RP2040 based O3C OSU rapid trigger boards already exist... yeah, not sure where else we'll see innovation 😅
A) Since when have personal computers hit terminal velocity?! Pretty sure my CPU and GPU were both outdated by the time they were shipped, and that's with Amazon Prime 2-day lol B) I agree that *aspects* of the hobby/industry have hit that zenith, so to be honest from this year onward is when the competition is really just starting. Now it's going to be about who can offer more, and that should be good for the consumers. More options, more customization, more INNOVATION - I think this one is going to be one of the biggest drivers of future boards' success. Like who can make the build process less painful (already seeing great strides in this with the ball catch systems and even wire-free PCB daughterboard connections), or who can add something to or take something away from a basic keyboard design to make it stand out and become something unique. Did I order a Cycle7 because it's the best keyboard ever? No, I ordered it because there aren't exactly a ton of WKL FRL TKLs out there and I want to have one. It's that type of standout that will play a big part of what we still have to look forward to. I can definitely see niche design concepts or rare/unique materials still being what can help differentiate "premium" customs from the rest. Lastly, let us not forget that switches, stabilizers, and keycaps are all part of what makes a keyboard a keyboard too - and I'm sure there's still plenty innovation and efficiencies to be seen in those areas as well. All these things together are why we most definitely have NOT reached terminal velocity. For all the Zooms, JRISs, Modes, & QKs out there, there are also Jelly's and Mr. Suits, Tenets and Havens. There are boards that never lived up to the hype but still became someone's end-game board that they never really move on from. Some special keyboards transcend "just" being a typing tool or mechanical gadget Art simply cannot reach terminal velocity
Kailh Hotswap sockets have been giving me trouble as well. I built three QK100s for friends and they all had at least one messed up socket that I had to work around.
Great Video as always! I really think the entry into this hobby is now crazy saturated but still with too few in-stock options. For someone like me, who already has at least one build for each sound and feel signature (thock, pop, clack), I really don't feel any need to buy this board. It looks and sounds good, but especially the sound is just too average for me. It's nothing that stands out to my ears. I need something truly unique in my collection. I guess that's why it's more for beginners or as a second build. At least that's my opinion.
I had some issues with Gateron hotswap sokets on my tiger 80. My switches just stuck in it and my pins for some unknown reason curved inside the socket. (but i inserted in it correctly) I had that problem on my u4t housing but not with Gateron Box Inks V2. IDK WHY??
great video yet again! I do have a question though, just like how previously the 3 75s (QK,JRIS and Zoom) were compared, if I did have a QK80, is this skippable?
Jris80 is a solid heavy weight keyboard with substantial internal weight. Also the catch ball quick release system is nice. Both Qk80 and Jris80 are awesome just depends whether you like the aesthetic or if you want to try the catch ball that's absent in qk80. One can't go wrong with either one for sure.
I kinda miss the innovative mid to high end boards. Yes, while we do get new ones like the, sin65 (autocorrect wanted to call the sin65 donut lmao), polyhaku, and others, they just don't feel as impactful and older boards. An example is the arc60. Literally everyone was praising it back when it first releases like the qk65. We don't really get that anymore where a large part of the community agrees that one board is a "must buy". Budget keyboards are kinda stuck at "perfect state" until some kind of new technology gets developed. Basically, I feel like there are a lot more improvement that can be discovered my removing the budget constraints. Why am I writing an essay again? Also, some company should prob make a qmk for wireless kbs cus having 20 different programs for wireless kbs is a pain.
Yeah. There was no need to mod my tiger 80 lite nor my qk 80. And there’s just no desire to get any other keyboards unless they break because all my bases are covered with a linear qk80 and a tactile tiger 80 lite
I agree with the terminal velocity feeling. The exclusivity of older boards and the DIY nature of the hobby before 15 different switch manus emerged to all make different versions of the same switch made everything feel a bit more special a few years ago. Not that its a bad thing that people can get a great board for a lower price, but the “great board for a low price” segment of the hobby is so oversaturated now that it just feels kinda stale at this point.
Ngl man the Kailh HS sockets are a pain lately. My JRIS75 has similar issues, switch with straight pins placed into the sockets but the contacts collapses like yours.
In custom keyboards i would really like an open source rgb software that makes it super easy to have different patterns or download user designs, i know you can program with qmk but not everyone knows how to do that
I know you’ve been wanting to branch your content into other tech spaces and such. It’ll be hard but I know you can put your own spin on it. Maybe if keyboards have hit a wall, it might be worth it to start easing some new content in. Badseed Tech did that and has found success so far in still keeping his keeb audience with tech. I believe you could do the exact same
Innovation comes at a price. Not many people are willing to pay into the new technology when it comes. But alternatively, new innovation such as keyboard switches failed to gain traction from the fact that there's not much custom keycap availability if everyone were to stay on the MX platform. We have reached the point where we need to innovate within the current constrains set by ourselves. MX stems? ANSI/ISO layout? Cherry profile keycaps? The issue with these budget-oriented keyboards are that they are meant to cater to the mass market, where it has features that MOST people would like in a keyboard, while also keeping the cost to a minimum. Then, people who are looking to get into the more premium options may opt to buy from the 2nd hand market as well, further diluting the pool for potential buyers for a more "innovative" keyboard, relying more on "Design & Feel" (or Brand) to further justify their higher costs than innovation. It will take an all-in-one solution, like a whole new prebuilt or a new definition of "Keyboard" to radically stir up the current market. Hall effect switches are on the rise, I hope innovation could be had there, maybe like a keyboard where there's a solid plate where the PCB is installed from the under side and the keycaps/switches are installed from the top. OR alternatively there's the Flux keyboard, which would definitely intrigue most keyboard nerds, if it comes to reality.
I don't think we reached Terminal Velocity, yet. To this day, the most used layout is still staggered and I wish to see more ortho boards with normal sized modifiers.
Like it or not, ortho boards are niche products. It will never go mainstream, just like ortho-anything (mouse for example). Terminal velocity has nothing to do with niche layouts. At least, in my opinion.
I understand what you mean by terminal velocity, but I feel like there are additionally just limitations either based on what is possible at the manufacturing level or price level. As someone who prefers as close to full size keyboards as possible, there are somethings you can get or experience more freely at an 80% size that you can't get at 1800 or 100%. A full-size split or Alice-style keyboard? There's the Feker Alice 98, but in addition to not quite being full the build was not great and the software is hideous. With all of the things a person can do or get into with cases and PCBs (wood! so much polycarbonate! printed ergonomic options!), I feel shut out as a full-size enjoyer, and what is available is frequently eye-wateringly expensive. For example, I felt like I needed to check out the qk100 because the options available for it usually go for double the price elsewhere. I realize that innovation costs time and money to prototype, test, manufacture, and finally ship, and every organization partnered with every step of the way wants to make a profit, so I don't want to be quick to demand things, but I do feel the limitations, and I think software is an area where people could make a big impact for a lot of users without the need for large outlays of capital or a big supply chain.
I think in terms of Art/ Design, there are still space to explore. There might also be some advancements in the (touch) screen design and their software support. Also pricing :D
Surprised that you've only brought up the 'terminal velocity' topic only now. As someone who's been in this hobby from 2016, I've personally felt that the 'hardware design' aspect of keyboard hobby has been relatively stagnant for several years, ever since the focus has shifted to prioritizing flex, soft bottom-out, use of gaskets, and Linear MX-style switches. [EXTRA LONG ESSAY INCOMING! TL;DR: looking more into switch design outside of 'MX-style Linears' which may even influence how keyboard chassis are designed, I miss large keyboards, and support for open-source firmware alternatives to QMK/VIA for tri-mode PCBs would be interesting directions to shake up the keyboard hobby] I'm not saying that there haven't been interesting innovations: switch materials, spring design, switch plate, variations of different gasket designs, the 'ball-catch' system is an interesting mechanism that I hope gets brought down to more lower price brackets, coating experimentation, are notable examples that I can think of the top of my head. However, as someone who thinks all MX-style switches are almost the same with different material 'flavours', any new keyboard project I see within the last couple of years usually make me think , "Oh, yet another keyboard that is built with 'soft bottom out' in mind, that is likely using some sort of gaskets, provided with foam, and likely going to be designed with MX-style linears in mind anyways". Instead what has been interesting for me the last few years is the huge improvement of 'ultra-budget' boards, due to vastly improved manufacturing and 'trickling down' of previously premium features into the very budget segment thanks to big volume manufacturers such as Akko (been seeing some decent to good tri-mode Aluminium boards for price of
I am sorry but I don't agree. As long as humans have imagination there is room for mods and improvement: force-feedback, ventilation/heating/cooling, sound from samples library, music at typing pace to help increase speed ....e.t.c. ...I have faith that imagination will never allow terminal velocity in any form of progress
To name one thing, custom keebs are really lagging behind in terms of performance -in wireless mode especially- compared to Logitech hardware. The problem with that is that it's not something visible or shiny or weighty, so keyboard "hobbysts" (aka compulsive buyers) don't care about it.
When it comes to most keyboard hardware I can agree. However, low profile switches could have more innovation. They just do not sound as good as MX style switches. Perhaps we may see innovations in low-profile switches that will lead to thockier sounding switches.
I truly respect and value your opinion but cannot disagree with you more. I don't know who's right or wrong but I will not bet against the many creative and talented people in this hobby who continue to bring brand new innovation at an astounding pace. Simply put, I'm excited for what's to come because I don't know what it is.
I love your channel. i wonder if you are getting a little worn out from your hobby. I think if things have become tiresome, it's time to innovate. You have a lot you could offer by way of knowledge and creativity.
This video won't age well. Keyboards will change drastically in time. Ie switches so small that they will be ultra thin and be tactile, linear and clicky options all in one. Just one example.
What's the benefit of having linear, tactile, clicky all in one switch? Everyone has their own preference for typing feel and sound, so I don't think that one switch for all will not be too popular. For example, I am sure linear switch lovers will not be interested in clicky. And clacky lover will not be interested in deep thock. So having an all in one switch in a preference based hobby does not seem that attractive. Just my opinion.
This is probably going to be the last one for me because they're basically all the same at this point and the quality difference between high and low pricing is just minuscule now in my opinion. Although I'll probably grab the qk 65 v2😊
I feel this terminal velocity feeling as well. When's the last time a group buy felt like I was part of something bigger? For better and worse, it seems that we've hit industrial efficiency for the hardware. I think maybe we as enthusiasts should start pushing for more professionalization in the distributors? I love the transparency that taeha has been trying to add in the shadiness of some of the vendors and wonder if there's anyone who has the capital and leadership to make in stock, premium keyboards. Given latest offerings from gaming brands and the fact that Corsair bought Drop may mean that this level of entry level aluminum cast or even cnc board will be readily available at Best buy or target soon
Perhaps this is the path things are going. The hobby has definitely changed for the years and not sure if it's a "hobby" anymore lol
@@Keybored perhaps but maybe enthusiast keyboard brands also begin to start diversifying their offerings for peripherals and the hobby becomes collecting all sorts of high quality products made with premium materials like aluminum, stainless steel, and carbon fiber etc
Mode is the leader in this space. They actually function like a real company and have real support, a real website, hit their deadlines, etc. No company is perfect but they are the bar that other vendors should be held up to
@Keybored why not cover Nuphy's low profile boards? Very nice to type on surprisingly and sound nice too.
Wow, it's so interesting that you noticed the hotswap socket quality on this!! I had the same problem with the jris75 pcb just a few weeks ago!
It's a big turn off, especially when the solder PCB for some reason implements the same odd south and west facing switch sockets when it's completely unnecessary. It only makes for interference with caps lock (where I put control) and enter, directly in the problem row (R3) with GMK CYL.
Once you're in the hobby long enough, you know what switches, spring weights, sounds, mounting systems, form factors, design languages, etc. that you prefer. I know exactly what products serve me, and its the only ones I pay attention to anymore. I know which vendors are tried and true, I know which design labs have successfully run previous boards, and I know that boards these days punch far above their weight class more often than not.
This is definitely terminal velocity for keeb projects, but if you're fully self-aware of your preferences... then this is also a new golden age for keebs. The number of extras and in-stock items alone is incredible. A big salute to the hard-working vendors across the globe!
In terms of functionality, hall effect switches are very interesting for gaming. I have a Wooting 60HE and I'm trying to make it sound as good as I can. The switches need a lot of work though, but I would never use a conventional keyboard for gaming at this point. It has really good mapping capabilites also, allowing me to have dedicated arrows on a 60% keyboard.
This is exactly what I was thinking throughout the video. If we had a board of the Jris quality with the HE switches/wooting software, it'd be a whole different ball game. That is probably the next frontier.
Did it take you long to adapt to playing FPS games with the Wooting? If you do so that is :)
Hall effect switches have never been proven to be generally effective, yes on paper it should put you in an advantage however if you’re not a top/pro player it probably won’t benefit you at all, + currently no good HE keyboard/switches are good (sound and feel wise)
@@FrenchManZary1 sound wise they're just rgb housing clack, which i don't mind personally. feel wise they are smoother than virtually all mx linears but lack a lot of spring options. optical hall effect will probably end up winning though just because of cost.
Got into this hobby only in Feb 2023 and I already have 2 Kailh hotswap sockets collapse like that (on different PCBs, one I got in May, one in Sep I think), had to use a tweezer to force the contacts in. One was after swapping the switch twice, the second happended upon the first switch install.
Personally I think there's still a lot that can evolve with the components inside keyboards once the related tech/manufacturing processes become cheaper. Like fold-in switch pins to make them harder to bend (like in Cherry MX2A and Gateron G Pro 3.0), or maybe even completely new mechanisms that don't use pins at all, like ball contacts. Then there's magentic connections like on the QK75N. Screwless assemblies seen partly on this JRIS 80 and Jelly Evolv. We're still seeing manufacturers trying to perfect stabilizers, like the WS Stabs 3.1 that builds in silicone padding inside the stab stems. Spring crunch is still commonplace (don't know if the MX2A spring design fixes that).
I think we're not at terminal velocity. We're at a plateau where all the obvious innovations have being done, and everyone's staring at the peak on the horizon but none of the big makers who have the scale and the capital wants to take that next big venture to even arrive at the foot of that next peak. Instead they're all looking to milk the market using their existing molds and manufacturing processes.
The hobby needs a disruptive innovator with the capital to invest and the will to break compatibility, else we'll all just settle down on this plateau and stop moving.
Good point on devoting RUclips time to keyboard software. I wondered why nobody has established a RUclips channel with weekly tips on refining your QMK and ZMK firmware.
We've hit that with the Cycle7 already. JRIS just gets cycled.
Yeah! It's not just you! In my old keebs (I gave them away to my friends), the Feker IK75 and GMK67 both have Kailh hotswap sockets and BOTH OF THEM at least 3-5 sockets are like pushed down and the switch I'm using during that time on those 2 keyboards are just the Gateron Milky Yellow Pro. I literally need to push the sockets from behind with a pin to make contact with the switch pins which is a total pain btw since I need to open those keyboards all over again and remove the tape mod.
I never experienced this when I built my Keychron V1, Keychron Q1V2 and Zoom75 (those 3 uses Gateron hotswap sockets I think but correct me if I'm wrong) and I changed the switches of those boards more than the times I changed the switches on the 2 keyboards I mentioned above. I think Kailh sockets are just kinda "eh" in terms of quality I guess.
You should maybe take a look into the custom-er keyboards, which basically involve making your own pcb, with custom layout custom made for your hand. I am currently looking into making my own split column-staggered 40% board with choc switches
i share the same sentiments about the kailh hotswap sockets, im glad you brought this up because not many do. i check the pins of the switch and i try to make sure its straight in, then sometimes yeah it just collapses in. and i try to fix the hotswap pin holders but sometimes it doesnt work, and yeah my switch pin just kind of gets bent now because of the collapsed socket pin holder.. but i dunno i try to ignore it since functionally it works still.. but annoying
I think we are poised on the edge. We’ve had all of these interesting custom options;screens, dials, blockers, wireless modes, weight options etc. I think the next step is modularity, being able to chop and change elements and further honing your options according to your budget
The only think they should focus now is make it better in term of sound and typing with no help from foams at "entry" price. I think until now there is no actual TKL layout kit at 200-300$ price point that sound good with no foam. Regarding inovation, QK is actually the best of them when using magnetic connection in stead of cable. Love the design of QK75N and Neo70.
nice camera, I love all that features and low light performance ！！ I'm new to the mechanical keyboard world, and your video helped me understand some key aspects
I think you are right in regards to what we are doing right now. New switch designs and how they work, software and better prices are hopefully what we see over the next couple of years. Nice review and video but I miss the skit :) Board is nice and lively with or without the foam.
I never understood the hype of custom mechs, the crazy group buys, buying keycap sets for 3-4x their MSRP, boutique switches that cost over $1 per... I'm kinda glad we've reached this point with customs as it's always just been stuff manufactured in China and artificially hyped up to give the consumer a feeling of scarcity. Perfect example is doubleshot ABS and how people used to wait years or pay double or triple for them, only to now see that doubleshot PBT has always been objectively better in various ways while being much more affordable.
I've moved on to watches as my new hobby now, and will be working on the keyboards I already have. All that said, the JRIS actually does sound pretty dang good. Thanks for the honest takes, Scott!
I've had my eye on the Gyus 80, thanks for sharing. and also haha the webcam is must-have man..
The khail hs sockets have been doing that too!! 7:03
Is this an issue? Does it still work?
I literally never even thought of doing something with a webcam but damn, you got me on that part xD
About the terminal velocity comment; I think that the mainstream has hit that blockage, but they could easily break through if they took some notes from the more niche keyboard spaces like the split-ergo hobby.
The split-ergo hobby has come up with some insane innovations like e-ink displays, multiple knobs, and some far better (in my opinion) keyboard layouts.
Also, I am surprised to see so little creativity in the keycap space. So many sets just use the same font and symbols as the last GMK set and slap a bigger pricetag on it. We need more sets redesigned by artists like the two I am running right now: Kon Momo and Milkshake.
On the brightside, this terminal velocity has brought us better prices and better accessibility, especially for those new to this daunting hobby!
Next are hall effect keyboards, of course! Once we've ported all the features we have now (screens, wireless, and whatever else there is) to the hall effect keyboards, we'll just have to wait for the next innovation.
buying keyboards has definitely slowed down or died down but I feel like building your own keyboard though acrylic or 3d printing or modifying standard parts is still fun. I find no enjoyment in buying a hot swap keyboard kit, throwing in switches and keycaps and done. I mean you don't need to even lube your switches anymore, they come preluded. custom keyboard market has become too commercialized. would love to see a move back to a more diy approach then just buying. butttt keycap designers don't leave, we need youuuu! at least i feel we are in a better place for keycaps =)
I have always thought the same. Cuts in metal plates are more for looks than function. Great video as always!
Interesting and insightful video Scott! Curious to know if you will review the NEO70?
Thanks for the video Scott!! I’d happily take more just general thoughts on the hobby / state of keyboards type commentary from you vs. more strictly review-focused videos. I’m sure your community would just generally enjoy whatever content you’re passionate about.
I’ve personally largely moved away from HS PCBs due to issues with the sockets. If I want something hot-swappable, then I’d prefer to mill max, plus I also am afforded more customizability for the layout in most cases. Hope that Kailh gets it together regardless!!
Honestly the Jris boards seem definitely a bit more stiff than a Wuque/Meletrix boards and definitely not the comfort of an leaf spring like AM or Owlabs. However, I'm very impressed by the value boards like the Leobogs and Neos.
Exceptional Video!
Quick question for you, or anyone else here. Can this PCB board utilize Screw in Stabilizers? Sorry if this is a noob question, but I just ordered this board and this will be my very first build when it comes to a Keyboard. Love the TKL! Any helpful suggestions are greatly welcomed. Thanks!
Still the best keyboard youtuber, in my opinion you are completely right about it!
I just wish they would finally finish production. I guess thats the downside of groupbuy. You dont know if they ever deliver. I have such a nice build planned.
If nothing else, I think we've reached a point where hot swap mechanical keyboards are now a possibility for almost everyone who wants one. Sure, some of them are very cheap and lack certain features, but the fact that you can get a hot swap board for anywhere from like $20 to several hundred, means that at least almost everyone can make the move from membrane boards if they really want to. After that, it's really up to how much tinkering/modding you're willing to do and how big your budget is to get the components you want to get the feel/sound you're looking for.
I mean this in the best way, but you don't look like you're old enough to remember the chip wars and rapid Pentium escalation of the 90s!
Hall effect keyboards at an affordable price, and good open source software for remapping is one thing I can see the future of hardware giving us.
But seeing as cheap RP2040 based O3C OSU rapid trigger boards already exist... yeah, not sure where else we'll see innovation 😅
You definitely sounded keybored with the hobby.
A) Since when have personal computers hit terminal velocity?! Pretty sure my CPU and GPU were both outdated by the time they were shipped, and that's with Amazon Prime 2-day lol
B) I agree that *aspects* of the hobby/industry have hit that zenith, so to be honest from this year onward is when the competition is really just starting. Now it's going to be about who can offer more, and that should be good for the consumers. More options, more customization, more INNOVATION - I think this one is going to be one of the biggest drivers of future boards' success. Like who can make the build process less painful (already seeing great strides in this with the ball catch systems and even wire-free PCB daughterboard connections), or who can add something to or take something away from a basic keyboard design to make it stand out and become something unique. Did I order a Cycle7 because it's the best keyboard ever? No, I ordered it because there aren't exactly a ton of WKL FRL TKLs out there and I want to have one. It's that type of standout that will play a big part of what we still have to look forward to. I can definitely see niche design concepts or rare/unique materials still being what can help differentiate "premium" customs from the rest. Lastly, let us not forget that switches, stabilizers, and keycaps are all part of what makes a keyboard a keyboard too - and I'm sure there's still plenty innovation and efficiencies to be seen in those areas as well. All these things together are why we most definitely have NOT reached terminal velocity. For all the Zooms, JRISs, Modes, & QKs out there, there are also Jelly's and Mr. Suits, Tenets and Havens. There are boards that never lived up to the hype but still became someone's end-game board that they never really move on from. Some special keyboards transcend "just" being a typing tool or mechanical gadget
Art simply cannot reach terminal velocity
Kailh Hotswap sockets have been giving me trouble as well. I built three QK100s for friends and they all had at least one messed up socket that I had to work around.
Great Video as always! I really think the entry into this hobby is now crazy saturated but still with too few in-stock options. For someone like me, who already has at least one build for each sound and feel signature (thock, pop, clack), I really don't feel any need to buy this board. It looks and sounds good, but especially the sound is just too average for me. It's nothing that stands out to my ears. I need something truly unique in my collection. I guess that's why it's more for beginners or as a second build. At least that's my opinion.
It can get cheaper. Also, imagine a Nintendo joycon style numpad attachment. Modular alu keyboards the future? Refined quick disassembly?
I think the modular approach has started recently. Will be interesting to see where it goes!
Scott is the coolest person ever I wish I could see these keyboards
I had some issues with Gateron hotswap sokets on my tiger 80.
My switches just stuck in it and my pins for some unknown reason curved inside the socket. (but i inserted in it correctly)
I had that problem on my u4t housing but not with Gateron Box Inks V2.
IDK WHY??
great video yet again! I do have a question though, just like how previously the 3 75s (QK,JRIS and Zoom) were compared, if I did have a QK80, is this skippable?
Sure, QK80 is still shining
Jris80 is a solid heavy weight keyboard with substantial internal weight. Also the catch ball quick release system is nice. Both Qk80 and Jris80 are awesome just depends whether you like the aesthetic or if you want to try the catch ball that's absent in qk80. One can't go wrong with either one for sure.
I wish people starts experimenting with different mounting styles instead of the boring gasket mount seen on every other keyboards
Hii, are you going to bring the review of the new Neo70 ?
Thanks and you do a great job !
Scott lowkey hinting he got the QK65v2 at the end...
I actually like the latch system to disassemble it, but mainly to clean it
Great for that too!
I kinda miss the innovative mid to high end boards. Yes, while we do get new ones like the, sin65 (autocorrect wanted to call the sin65 donut lmao), polyhaku, and others, they just don't feel as impactful and older boards. An example is the arc60. Literally everyone was praising it back when it first releases like the qk65. We don't really get that anymore where a large part of the community agrees that one board is a "must buy". Budget keyboards are kinda stuck at "perfect state" until some kind of new technology gets developed. Basically, I feel like there are a lot more improvement that can be discovered my removing the budget constraints. Why am I writing an essay again? Also, some company should prob make a qmk for wireless kbs cus having 20 different programs for wireless kbs is a pain.
Yeah. There was no need to mod my tiger 80 lite nor my qk 80. And there’s just no desire to get any other keyboards unless they break because all my bases are covered with a linear qk80 and a tactile tiger 80 lite
Time stamp sound tests: no foam 09:34 with foam Pom plate 10:52
I agree with the terminal velocity feeling. The exclusivity of older boards and the DIY nature of the hobby before 15 different switch manus emerged to all make different versions of the same switch made everything feel a bit more special a few years ago. Not that its a bad thing that people can get a great board for a lower price, but the “great board for a low price” segment of the hobby is so oversaturated now that it just feels kinda stale at this point.
One thing that is still sadly in the stone ages are ISO Hot-swap support!
You should try the Drunkdeer A75 with the new metal case :D
Do a review on mode envoy / tempo. Would love to know your thought on it!
Ngl man the Kailh HS sockets are a pain lately. My JRIS75 has similar issues, switch with straight pins placed into the sockets but the contacts collapses like yours.
In custom keyboards i would really like an open source rgb software that makes it super easy to have different patterns or download user designs, i know you can program with qmk but not everyone knows how to do that
i think when they don't say hoe much the keyboard weights it tells you who is the keyboard targeted to
Trust me this board is pretty hefty and much nicer than keychrons. For the price you can't get any better.
@@IronCan88 if it weights less than 2kg then the Cycle7 was better (139$)
and cycle7 was frl and is practically 2kg
I know you’ve been wanting to branch your content into other tech spaces and such. It’ll be hard but I know you can put your own spin on it. Maybe if keyboards have hit a wall, it might be worth it to start easing some new content in. Badseed Tech did that and has found success so far in still keeping his keeb audience with tech. I believe you could do the exact same
I feel like the hobby now has a tendency to get cheaper and with a better quality
Innovation comes at a price. Not many people are willing to pay into the new technology when it comes.
But alternatively, new innovation such as keyboard switches failed to gain traction from the fact that there's not much custom keycap availability if everyone were to stay on the MX platform.
We have reached the point where we need to innovate within the current constrains set by ourselves. MX stems? ANSI/ISO layout? Cherry profile keycaps?
The issue with these budget-oriented keyboards are that they are meant to cater to the mass market, where it has features that MOST people would like in a keyboard, while also keeping the cost to a minimum.
Then, people who are looking to get into the more premium options may opt to buy from the 2nd hand market as well, further diluting the pool for potential buyers for a more "innovative" keyboard, relying more on "Design & Feel" (or Brand) to further justify their higher costs than innovation.
It will take an all-in-one solution, like a whole new prebuilt or a new definition of "Keyboard" to radically stir up the current market. Hall effect switches are on the rise, I hope innovation could be had there, maybe like a keyboard where there's a solid plate where the PCB is installed from the under side and the keycaps/switches are installed from the top. OR alternatively there's the Flux keyboard, which would definitely intrigue most keyboard nerds, if it comes to reality.
I don't think we reached Terminal Velocity, yet. To this day, the most used layout is still staggered and I wish to see more ortho boards with normal sized modifiers.
Like it or not, ortho boards are niche products. It will never go mainstream, just like ortho-anything (mouse for example).
Terminal velocity has nothing to do with niche layouts. At least, in my opinion.
I understand what you mean by terminal velocity, but I feel like there are additionally just limitations either based on what is possible at the manufacturing level or price level. As someone who prefers as close to full size keyboards as possible, there are somethings you can get or experience more freely at an 80% size that you can't get at 1800 or 100%. A full-size split or Alice-style keyboard? There's the Feker Alice 98, but in addition to not quite being full the build was not great and the software is hideous. With all of the things a person can do or get into with cases and PCBs (wood! so much polycarbonate! printed ergonomic options!), I feel shut out as a full-size enjoyer, and what is available is frequently eye-wateringly expensive. For example, I felt like I needed to check out the qk100 because the options available for it usually go for double the price elsewhere. I realize that innovation costs time and money to prototype, test, manufacture, and finally ship, and every organization partnered with every step of the way wants to make a profit, so I don't want to be quick to demand things, but I do feel the limitations, and I think software is an area where people could make a big impact for a lot of users without the need for large outlays of capital or a big supply chain.
I had issues with the hot swap sockets on my ISO tiger 80 lite pcb too
Same here. These are Gateron though, not Kailh.
I think in terms of Art/ Design, there are still space to explore. There might also be some advancements in the (touch) screen design and their software support. Also pricing :D
Yep, the keyboard space is FAR from saturated when it comes to great designs.
keycaps?
Surprised that you've only brought up the 'terminal velocity' topic only now. As someone who's been in this hobby from 2016, I've personally felt that the 'hardware design' aspect of keyboard hobby has been relatively stagnant for several years, ever since the focus has shifted to prioritizing flex, soft bottom-out, use of gaskets, and Linear MX-style switches.
[EXTRA LONG ESSAY INCOMING! TL;DR: looking more into switch design outside of 'MX-style Linears' which may even influence how keyboard chassis are designed, I miss large keyboards, and support for open-source firmware alternatives to QMK/VIA for tri-mode PCBs would be interesting directions to shake up the keyboard hobby]
I'm not saying that there haven't been interesting innovations: switch materials, spring design, switch plate, variations of different gasket designs, the 'ball-catch' system is an interesting mechanism that I hope gets brought down to more lower price brackets, coating experimentation, are notable examples that I can think of the top of my head. However, as someone who thinks all MX-style switches are almost the same with different material 'flavours', any new keyboard project I see within the last couple of years usually make me think ,
"Oh, yet another keyboard that is built with 'soft bottom out' in mind, that is likely using some sort of gaskets, provided with foam, and likely going to be designed with MX-style linears in mind anyways".
Instead what has been interesting for me the last few years is the huge improvement of 'ultra-budget' boards, due to vastly improved manufacturing and 'trickling down' of previously premium features into the very budget segment thanks to big volume manufacturers such as Akko (been seeing some decent to good tri-mode Aluminium boards for price of
its like a bubble
I ordered yunzii yz75, When it i will tell you if the hot swap socket are good or not
Sounds good
I am sorry but I don't agree. As long as humans have imagination there is room for mods and improvement: force-feedback, ventilation/heating/cooling, sound from samples library, music at typing pace to help increase speed ....e.t.c. ...I have faith that imagination will never allow terminal velocity in any form of progress
To name one thing, custom keebs are really lagging behind in terms of performance -in wireless mode especially- compared to Logitech hardware. The problem with that is that it's not something visible or shiny or weighty, so keyboard "hobbysts" (aka compulsive buyers) don't care about it.
When it comes to most keyboard hardware I can agree. However, low profile switches could have more innovation. They just do not sound as good as MX style switches. Perhaps we may see innovations in low-profile switches that will lead to thockier sounding switches.
looks like better than qk80
But why is typing angle at 7.5 degrees? Isn't that concerning? lol
Alu plate in other vids sound thinner watch several vids to compare
Wyman Isle
I truly respect and value your opinion but cannot disagree with you more. I don't know who's right or wrong but I will not bet against the many creative and talented people in this hobby who continue to bring brand new innovation at an astounding pace. Simply put, I'm excited for what's to come because I don't know what it is.
OLED keycaps so you can make custom legends
I love your channel. i wonder if you are getting a little worn out from your hobby. I think if things have become tiresome, it's time to innovate. You have a lot you could offer by way of knowledge and creativity.
can someone tell me if this is still an option or is the GB closed their site says "upcoming"..
11/28
why is there a gap where you can see the switches under the keycaps? It's 2023, thats unacceptable.
Yeah, that is the biggest dealbreaker to me
someone make a cheap southpaw
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Am I the only one feeling that Keybored really starting to get "KeyBORED" :(
Hope he doesn't, I just watch him for his content and not because of the keyboard he's reviewing tbh.
You sound bored Mr. Keybored hahaha
my only wish is a brazilian portugues custom keybord 😔
Haha I don't think I've ever seen one of those
You can research if want, the layout name is ABNT2
@@Keybored this one upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Qwerty_pt_BR-ABNT2.svg
way too long of a advertisement block in relation to the total video length =(
QK80 or JRIS80 ? :o
Jris has better sound for sure. QK is tad softer
This video won't age well. Keyboards will change drastically in time. Ie switches so small that they will be ultra thin and be tactile, linear and clicky options all in one. Just one example.
What's the benefit of having linear, tactile, clicky all in one switch? Everyone has their own preference for typing feel and sound, so I don't think that one switch for all will not be too popular. For example, I am sure linear switch lovers will not be interested in clicky. And clacky lover will not be interested in deep thock. So having an all in one switch in a preference based hobby does not seem that attractive. Just my opinion.
This is probably going to be the last one for me because they're basically all the same at this point and the quality difference between high and low pricing is just minuscule now in my opinion. Although I'll probably grab the qk 65 v2😊
Keybored looking bit Bored giving this review 🥲
I wish they did the typing angle this has with the 75.
75 Def is beefier!