Lumix S5IIX VS Lumix S1H (OLPF VS No OLPF)
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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There's always been quite a lot of discussion around OLPF's (Optical Low Pass Filters), and whether they actually make for a better image. The Lumix S1H features an OLPF, and many people agree that the S1H has the best image quality of any mirrorless camera.
The Lumix S5IIX does not have an OLPF, and since I have both cameras, I thought I would compare the image quality between the S1H and the S5IIX so we can see what the OLPF is really doing.
I've also had a few requests to make a 'Lumix S5IIX vs Lumix S1H' Video, so I guess this is kind of that!
Hopefully this video is insightful for some of you! 
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What do you guys want to see next? :)
Next video : best lens for street and portrait photography but also for vlogging or documenting a video. It’s has to be just in 1 lens as I don’t want change lens. Like Sony they have 20-70 but the thing it’s an F/4 so that’s ok but not awesome
how to choose l mount lens, Lumix or Sigma
Honestly, I’ve been trying to find a good general comparison between the S5II/X and the S1H.
(Less shots of your mates, more of Hann???) Nice professional post, Josh.
I would love to see S1h vs s5iix vs Blackmagic Full Frame 6k. The ultimate shootout.
I shot on the S1H since it came out. I bought an S52X to replace my S5. After a month of shooting with the S52X I felt the same way @aiseurnae5976 did. The biggest problem I ran into though was aliasing and moire, especially shooting in open gate in detailed environments. I think Panasonic should've made the S52X with the OLPF and the S52 without, that would've really made a distinct difference between the two cameras (photo vs video). I'm patiently waiting for the S1H2 and really hope they don't remove the OLPF. If the S1H had the same AF as the S52X, I think that camera would still be one of the best mirrorless camera's out there.
I have both cameras, and honestly I maybe saw moiré two times with the s5iix since I purchased it
Ayee I’m featured in this video at : 0:02 that’s me 😂🙌🏾
I agree the S1H looks better, but the low pass filter is not the only reason why the S1H has nicer image quality in video. Both the S5 and the S1 also have better image quality than the S5II.
The S5II fine details in video are simply worse, with too much edge sharpening and worse very fine details because of the new engine. Even V-log is impacted. This is the first thing I noticed when I compared my S5II with my other S cameras.
You reckon this could this be fixed with an update?
My s1 looks better than my new X for sure.
@@Freeskiingisdabest No the issue is their new engine, so there is nothing to do. People who really loved the Panasonic image quality and fine details are very disappointed.
@@aiseurnae5976if it is so bad as you say why it has received the TIPA and EISA awards then? Just asking…
@@ShellyBHollis Yes I sold the S5II and kept my S1. This is not even close in video. 4K and 6K are so much better on the S1. The actual details of the S5II are not as good and they have too much sharpening. What is funny is to see most Panasonic fanboys saying Panasonic has much better image quality than Sony while they are unable to see the difference between the S1 and S5II.
Amazing tests man, your models look pretty cool too. I love how they're not as different as I thought they'd be.
It left me feeling more confused tbh 🤣
I always wondered what the low pass filter was 😂.
I preferred the s5iix for the outside. ❤
I’m so happy I got me an S5II 😁
this was super cool Josh! As a wedding photographer/videographer, moire on suits is my ENEMY. give me a slightly softer image any day!!!!
Not sure if it's just your exposure, but something about S5IIX seems to handle highlights better. Shadows are slightly more exposed, but the highlights are slightly less blown out. Definitely a better looking image to my eyes with all things considered. I can image moire and aliasing would be an issue sometimes with certain fabrics when you have such a detailed image, but there are lens filters designed to help with this (though they soften the image a bit). I will always prefer no filter, but I understand why some people would want it.
Man of the people! Thanks for doing this, Josh! I think in terms of what I'd selfishly want next, I'd be curious if when you film interviews or sit downs with folks who wear suits, or patterns, if the S5IIx regularly has an issue or not with moire, and if it ruined a shot(s) for you.
What I think we determined here is that in studio, in a T-shirt, the S5IIx looks awesome, and of street video again with someone in not super complex clothes, it wasn't an issue.
I’ve used the S5IIX multiple times on interviews where the subject was wearing either a shirt or a blazer etc and never had any moire issues personally. I’ll try to include some of that footage in the next one ✌🏻
@@JoshCameron you're the best! Love your attention to detail here. I'll be keenly keeping my eyes out for this type of comparison with the S1H. I think the S5II is still so very new, and with the x model taking forever to reach folks, it's hard to gauge how much if at all the lack of an optical low pass filter hurts the camera or not.
The auto focus was a bit of a give away with the examples haha. Thanks for the info i didn't know about OLPF till today! Really enjoy the content, thanks for doing it!
Glad it was helpful Ryan, thanks for watching!
Great video as always 👍 keep up the good work
Thanks dude!
34 year edit veteran here… if you get handed footage from the Lumix sh17e with moiré, hopefully you’re delivering in 1080 and the DP shot in 4K or OG. Try punching in a bit in post and marvel at the disappearing moiré!
A fantastic and very informative video! Love the channel.
I have a question regarding the S1H because Im considering it as well as the S5II, which I like less for its ergonomics... Is it possible to punch in (enlarge the view for precise manual focusing) while recording? I know its possible with the new S5II as well as the G9II. I couldnt confirm it for the S1H. Thank you in advance!
Camera B has an interesting lift in the highlights that make the shadows a bit softer, but still solid contrast. I’m kinda diggin that feel!
Terrific video. Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the S1H…they’re coming down in price quite a bit and I fear I might be priced out of the next generation!
Awesome test bro 🎥🔥💯
Thanks dude!
Basically, moire can be a real problem if you're downsampling at the point of capture without an OLPF. The aliasing that high res sensors can output is most common when you're not capturing at native, so in the case of the S5ii X, you're much less likely to get moire if you capture at the sensors native res, which is 6k. If you shoot C4K with a downsampled image from a higher res sensor (which can look fantastic) and your focus plane hits the wrong texture, you WILL get moire, even an OLPF might not save you in every instance. This isn't a LUMIX thing, it's a by product of any high res sensor outputting at non native resolutions. Cameras that don't downsample (that much anyway), like the FX3 or FX6 will be less affected, which is why you hardly hear anyone complain about moire in those cameras.
Interesting. No wonder black magic likes to keep everything at it's native resolution even though you have way less options
That's not a choice but a result of shooting in raw@@nathancasey7712
So if I shoot c4k / in apsc mode I should be fine on the s5 II , right ?
Quite insightful, & a bit problematic if we want to use high framerates which usually come with crops, & the 6K in this case, that can remove some functions (IBIS, PDAF..).
Actually using IBIS in itself also involves a crop, so would that imply a + prone to Moiré capture with it?
I guess I have to make a distinction between crop & downsampling, which brings to the question just above, I would confirm that in theory.
So it means we'd have a compromising choice to make anyway.
What about the rolling shutter? I've seen some tests that are not very flattering for the S5iiX. Wondering whether you have done any tests on this?
It's good to see the two cameras side by side to see the difference in images. I prefer to softer look of the OLPF. I would have liked to see an example of moire and how that was handled by the two different cameras. I use a Lumix S5, and quite often see moire, which I find really annoying and often is not noticed until looking at the footage when editing. It also often means the shot is unusable, which is rather unsettling if it is a critical shot (or series of shots). This puts me off getting any cameras now that do not have an OLPF.
Nice Video Josh! Camera B autofocus seemed better but at least in the grade more vibrant than camera A
Josh is the S5 ii & S5iix going to receive the updated AF of the new G9 ii? Also is going to be new versions of the S1, S1R and S1H.
I’m not sure, if I hear anything I’ll let you know!
The colors do look indeed similar but damn
The green of the womans jacket at 4:28 changes completely! (Or at least way more than I expected)
There’s certain colours that each camera capture very differently, green being one of them!
For me of course the S1h 🙂👌 OLPF Filter is a must have for me. I shoot a lot of Interviews and I never have to tell anyone to "not wear stripes and bla" moire destoyed once some fashion pictures I took with my S5. Never make this mistake again.
Did you compare the EVFs too? One reason to upgrade from the s5m1 is the bad EVF. Mostly filming on vintage manual lenses and don’t want to carry around a monitor for spontaneous private filming.
the standard S5II has an OLPF or not? do the S5II and the S5IIx have something electr. to simulate it (the same way other brands do)?
B
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Hi! I have lumix s5, Can you help me? I set the camera to V-LOG, shoot in 4K 4:2:2, 10 bit. Iso 800 even 600 but anyway it shows me very loud noise, even if I add the light in the frame it still shows me noise, what should I do?
is it the colour is close in video picture profile of these two camera?thx
@6:20 what lens were you using - looks great :))
about moiré effect : it depend totaly about lense optical performance and photosite size. That why 6k S35 sensors are less prone to moiré : photosites size VS optical resolving power from lense.
Just to make sure I got it right : does the proportionality go so that :
The higher the optical resolving power from lens , compared to a given photosite size, the lower chance of getting Moiré ?
"6k S35 sensors are less prone to moiré" *than smaller 6K sensors* ?
I guess this would have to be added to the above comment suggesting downsampling at the point of capture is a factor, so that capturing at native censor res, would be preferred, on top of having the most resolving glass in front (i.e. prefer primes if possible, for instance?), right?
i prefered B for almost every shot.
glad it was the camera i own ^^
I would love for you to have tested more moire like roofs, grills, etc, especially along the vertical and horizontal axis, because as I understood, that's how the pixels in the sensor line up and that's why you get moire. The first example you shot was diagonal so that might be the reason that it did not show any moire. I got some moire from my S5 that's why I'm curious.
I agree. I wanted to see more examples too
Hi Josh, I noticed moiré on both the S5 and the S5ii, depending on what you shoot for some can be a problem, I have to say though that in most occasions, video, it is noticeable if zooming in 400%, in my experience, nothing dramatic I would say!
But I love my LUMIX cameras 😊
S1H looks less contrasty and more cinematic, just like if we compare a bit a solid sigma lens vs a meike or nisi that want to lower sharpness etc.
S1H looks more pleasing but I would still use S5II even if there is some used S1H at lower price than S5 II now because for run and gun it's way better !
But if you are looking for the most cinematic feels definately the S1H !Imagine if they release a S5IIX but with OPLF ..... damn that would have been just PERFECT!
I am planning to buy a camera for making short films and RUclips videos can I go with a Blackmagic pocket 6k old model (Non G2) second hand or can I purchase a new Lumix S5IIx
In the shot of you in the studio, there seems to be some flickering on the S1H, maybe from the shutterspeed/led refresh rate combo?
Both cameras were set to the same shutter speed, in the same region (PAL/NTSC etc) … strange!
@JoshCameron I watched it on my phone, so maybe that was the issue. I'll check it on a big screen later to see if I still see the flickering.
I'm still holding out for the s1h II.
I don't know when it'll be but I'm waiting 😂
some news there online :)
S5iix definitely seems to have a green shift. Just bought once, missed this, small adjustment in post I suppose.
use the right tool for the right job, if I'm shooting fashion I might want to reduce Moire as much as possible... but otherwise not really an issue
What is the song at 3:45?
I already have a S5 which I use for 50/50 hybrid shooting, and want a second camera for the same purpose. Video quality needs to be good enough for streaming services. S1H, S1, another S5 or a S5 II?
S5iix if you want to stream
Oh I thought you meant live NeverMind
Moire and having a low pass filter doesn't matter at all until it does. I've been using the original S5 for a long time, and I never had any kind of issue with it at all, until one day I did a shoot, and a pair of jeans looked like some kind of floating microwave oven with colors effect, it just ruined the shot, and it was on pants (blue jeans) that had been worn in shots many times where that never happened, but suddenly I guess because of the way the sun was hitting, or because of the frame composition, who knows? But it destroyed the shot. Ever since then, I've been hyper aware and paranoid that it was going to happen again, but having said that, I am such a huge fan of the original s5, I love the way it looks, the Highlight roll off is just as good as the s1h, or any camera for that matter, it just looks like a movie no matter what you shoot, but now I have to admit that I feel like I'm always looking over my shoulder, waiting for those weird floating colors to show up and ruin my shot, and looking I'm forward to the s1h mark ii, which will be a great possibility for me if it also has a low pass filter, which I'm assuming it will. I don't think the low pass filter really affects the image at all to any human being. I don't think we can really see the difference, but when those artifacts show up, and you clearly know that it's the filter that's missing, that just makes you think, should I upgrade just to feel more comfortable that this will never happen again? By the way, it has never happened again since that day, but I can't un-know what already happened. LOL
i get the thing about the soft image....but i dont know if i agree that it looks "better"....what exactly is "better" about the S1H image? It looks such at a lower resolution vs the s5iix, or is it just me? IMO, The BMPCC line of cameras are the only line of cameras that do the "soft" image look how its supposed to look. S1H just looks plain softer to me, but not better.
Hey Josh,
The moiree will reapear if the unicolor mode of Armani Style will revert no 1960 english green jersey style or 1980 Mr Been😂😂😂and by the way it is one of the reason why I still have the GH5s and not GH6 GH9ii it has olpf in case of a shooting close strange paterns with that kind of problems...I mostly see moiree with my DJI mini 3 pro on the rooftops with sun reflexion😂😂😂😅😅😅 but A DJI with olpf hm...Inspire series maybe 😂😂😂
Can you link that mist filter please Josh, ta 👊
Sure! Here’s the circular version - www.formatt-hitech.com/products/soft-silver-circle-filter?variant=41896276623413
KOLARI offers for 600$ to add OLPF to any Panasonic cameras (S5-S5II etc) something to consider , instead waiting a S1H II
I saw a very big diffenrence , I'm shooting badminton top athlete , and when I take vidéos you can see the disaster with the net, (big difference with s1H - S5)
I'm yet to order mine, but I defo will be!
Pour moi la A est l'image que je préfère !
I think the s1h handled the out of focus areas better as well. Not as much digital artifacting going on. S5iix owner here. I. Don’t. Care 😂 my clients would never be able to tell
S5 LOOKS BETTER OVERALL but for a cinema I understand why they like the filter even with the filter I would still have the S5 though
Really odd but I could’ve sworn camera B would’ve been the s1h as I preferred the colors and shadows of the B…. Well here we are 😂
S1H looks better for me :) thanks
Very informative video, what were the lenses used on both cameras? Don’t think you mentioned this
I used the 50mm F1.8 from Panasonic on both cameras :)
It’s a shame there is not an option to fit it after market.
video is active
hahahaha I see my video link in the comments section of one of the group chats.....woot woot 😃🧐🤣🤣
i like A camera more
do a night side by side of the same
Mor ei eatch these the more I regret selling my a7s3
You put the exact same grade on both sets of files? Same grade indoors and outdoors? Yes? Then in other words, both grades are sub-optimal and will have a tendency to drift in unexpected ways depending on the lighting. That’s not helpful. If you want to do this kind of side-by-side comparison then it’s important to incorporate a color chart in each shot and grade to the chart so that for each camera you’re setting the white balance, tint, saturation, etc. in as consistent a way as possible. Also out of curiosity, what codecs, bit depths, and input resolutions did you use? As for having an OLPF, these are particularly helpful when shooting into a video wall (something more and more production companies must do these days), plus there are certain fabrics and environmental details in other shots and settings which can set off moire problems. It doesn’t happen often in general videography/cinematography, but when it does (especially if you don’t notice the problem on the camera monitor) the fix can be somewhere between difficult and disaster, sometimes requiring an expensive reshoot (or a very disappointed bride!). Anyway, I would very much suggest you use color charts going forward and correct each clip accordingly, otherwise you haven’t given yourself or your audience useful information.
I think you misunderstood me a little here. I haven’t graded each clip exactly the same, each scene has been graded individually , and then those adjustments have been used across both cameras for that particular scene. Each camera was shooting at the exact same frame rate, white balance, codec, and with the same lens as well (the 50mm f1.8). There was no tint applied to either of them, and the saturation was also kept the same too.
Codec wise, all examples were shot using the 4K 4:2:2 Long-GOP internal codec on both cameras as well.
Hope this helps :)
@@JoshCameron For this sort of comparison (subtle sharpness differences between cameras) it’s best to shoot RAW so you eliminate any in-camera frame interpolation and/or sharpening. It also would have made sense to find something which triggers moire in the S5IIx and then reshoot the same object or fabric with the S1H to better demonstrate the difference. I won’t drone on about this, but the methodology used here has some significant holes.
Sir, showing more and telling less is helpful if you have such issues with this video. I know I learned something from it. I look forward to your tests, and please make them available for viewing if you would. Thank you. @@waveland
S1h video were a lot better .
Great video Josh! Are there any rumors about the potential release of the new LUMIX S1H model? It's a fantastic camera, and it seems like Panasonic is always focusing on entry-level model rather than their higher-end cameras. 🥲
There’s no word on the street yet about the successor to the S1H, but I’m hoping it’ll be coming within the next year or so!