God this is such a good day for me first the announcement of Pokemon Legends ZA and now a Dapper video on the same day this is gonna be a great couple of years getting back to the arcane trickster if you think about it if you take the telekinetic feat powers up the mage hand even farther the invisibility and extended range added onto the spell along with the subclass abilities that apply to mage hand makes it so powerful and I think this subclass deserves a 10/10 in my book what a great way of starting the rogue begining with a bang and hopefully we'll end with a bang as well
Very thorough coverage, probably the strongest subclass for rogue but , I'm looking forward to the swashbuckler I think it provides a face of the party play style that you can't get with any of the other subclasses.
I wish there was a 'natury' rogue, no not scout, ... I mean 1 that can do something like wildshape and sneak attack from wildshape form. That would be amazing and still very fitting, perhaps it's a mix of having learned some tricks from druid, fey and changelings and disguising different parts to look very animal like, but it's a dagger made in such a way that it looks like a claw or something. How could this^ not be super rogue like?
@@woutvanostaden1299 I don't know if you have watched the anime Fairy tale , but the character Elfman in the beginning changes his arm usually to an animals arm or leg depending on the animal. but you could homebrew a rogue that changes his arms and maybe legs later giving different boosts depending on the animal. Maybe a chameleon arm to camouflage your attacks to give advantage proficiency times per day. Or cheetah legs to boost your speed by 15 feet.
versatile trickster is very niche and weak. As you said previously, the AT uses the wizard spell list and should focus on spell that do not use saving throw. Guess what spell is on the wizard spellist and do not use a saving throw? Find Familiar. That familiar cannot attack, true, but he can provide the help action which in turn gives an advantage on your attack WITHOUT needing a bonus action. So versatile trickster is good if your familiar died, or if you expect to have a reaction attack and want to use your familiar to gain advantage on your next attack and you cannot use cunning action to hide (let's keep in mind that for hiding you need to break the line of sight, so yes that lonely pillar that everyone knows you are hiding behind still count as hiding. And with Tasha steady aim... Versatile trickster lost even MORE of it's already limited utility 10/10 is a bit exaggerated: the spellcasting: they could have let the player CHOOSE what 2 schools to specialize on. My vision of the arcane trickster uses his magic to divine ahead (divination) and enhance my assassination attack (conjuration or transmutation or evocation), but no here I need to mind control others (enchantment) or trick them (illusion). Giving more options is always better. Same with Versatile Trickster, even before Tasha, the find familiar spell was doing a better job. They need to remove that bonus action. Mage hand should have a way longer duration. it's ridiculous that I need to recast it every minute. Sure it's a cantrip it doesn't matter but it's annoying. giving it an 8 hours duration would be a quality of life improvement
AT Rogue gives the rogue offensive progression between 3 and 9, something every other rogue lacks. Versatile Trickster is actually an example of bad PHB design. It doesn't modify the way you use mage hand, it gives you an additional action if the mage hand is already out. To use it, the mage hand has to be already next to the target, you can't move it as a part of the action. So you have to use a bonus action or action to set this up a turn early, pray they don't move, then bonus action to trigger a sneak attack. It's clunky and counter intuitive. I expect this to be changed come 5.5e. As for AT spells, here are some of the standout choices as being a rogue does change some of your focus. None of these require a good intelligence score. - Booming / Green Flame Blade: You can sneak attack with this and it is an overall damage bump at 5th level. Combine booming with disengage to prompt the bonus damage more often. - Find Familiar: Counts as a creature for sneak attack purposes or a help action if you want advantage too, you might even be able to get away with having the familiar ride you. Owls are a classic but bat's blind sight is a useful tool for a rogue. The flying monkey if available also has hands for thievery. - Shield / Absorb Elements: Overlaps with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, but can have upside in some situations. Use them all as appropriate - Minor Illusion / Silent Image: Illusion classics that can provide mobile cover where none exists. - Silvery Barbs: Give yourself advantage for a guaranteed sneak next turn, plus it's enchantment. - Disguise Self / Alter Self: pairs well with expertise in deception for a charisma based rogue. - Unseen Servant: It's not as good as a familiar but it is invisible and can cause a lot of mayhem. - Borrowed Knowledge: This used to be Enhance Ability to buff your skills, but gaining the proficiency is better once you get reliable talent. - Shadow Blade: Is finesse, provides advantage, and the all psychic sneak attack is rarely resisted. The 3rd level up cast is worth it. - Phantom Steed: Allows you to steady aim while retaining a high movement speed. Also counts as a creature for sneak attack. - Summon Spells: All of these are about the same, creatures that do damage, count as a creature, and maybe provides flanking if your party uses it - Greater Invisibility: Permanent offensive advantage and defensive disadvantage, good stuff.
My arcane trickster took green flame blade as a cantrip. When you only get one attack per round this really beefs up that attack especially if you get stealth attack and as my got, a flame tongue short short. For first level spell from any school I took shield, for my second level I took invisibility, and tor my third I took haste.
I totally expect people to dip paladin to add divine smite and bless (for better to hit chance) perhaps if you like hiding in obscurity (😂 so pretty much every rogue, but what I mean is hiding in fog cloud for something similar to warlocks darkness+devilsight combo by using the blind fighting style. It's amazing on a flying race) and depending on how far you are willing to go gaining extra attack or even an aura to abuse is great.
I give it 6/10 1. Narrow school selection makes it harder to select most useful spells and also disincentivizes maxing spell casting ability. Illusion magic is the most arbitrarily treated school by DMs and mileage can vary dramatically 2. No Ritual casting to conserve meager spell slots and opportunities 3. No boost to combat effectiveness. 4. Mage hand duration is annoying and requires the DM to hand wave it or else you have to recast it. Also things it carries are not invisible, so anyone can notice objects floating in the air 5. Bonus action economy is already overloaded for rogues, so now using it to manipulate your mage hand interferes with your hide/disengage or extra attack (crossbow expert/dual wielding) Some ideas that could improve the Arcane Trickster pick one or two A) Casting Ability: Dexterity It didn’t break the game to allow weapon wielding with casting ability on Hexblade, Bladesingers, or Battlesmiths… I think allowing rogues to cast their tiny number of low level spells with Dex would help. B) Hand to Hand Combat Recommend the mage hand be able to be used on an enemy distracting it and either providing the rogue with sneak attack opportunities or a Hex like debuff. If that is too powerful, how about the hand being able to hold a shield granting half cover or that the extra hand removes the reloading property granting a bonus action ranged attack, or with thrown weapons, the mage hand throws an illusory copy of what you throw but if it hits it does 1 point of damage and allows you to apply your sneak attack dice if your throw missed. Roll your attack twice essentially. This would work like Bracer of Flying Daggers. C) The Hedge Wizard Grant the Arcane Trickster with a ritual casting ability for extra versatility and reduced dependence on meager spell slots D) Add double proficiency bonus for Arcana Skill E) Remove school restrictions and perhaps class. Mage Hand should not count as one of the three Cantrips F) Grant rogue subtle spell metamagic and regain 1 point on short rest H) Allow sneak attack to be applied to Cantrip attacks as if it were a qualifying weapon attack PB times per day.
God this is such a good day for me first the announcement of Pokemon Legends ZA and now a Dapper video on the same day this is gonna be a great couple of years getting back to the arcane trickster if you think about it if you take the telekinetic feat powers up the mage hand even farther the invisibility and extended range added onto the spell along with the subclass abilities that apply to mage hand makes it so powerful and I think this subclass deserves a 10/10 in my book what a great way of starting the rogue begining with a bang and hopefully we'll end with a bang as well
Very thorough coverage, probably the strongest subclass for rogue but , I'm looking forward to the swashbuckler I think it provides a face of the party play style that you can't get with any of the other subclasses.
I wish there was a 'natury' rogue, no not scout, ... I mean 1 that can do something like wildshape and sneak attack from wildshape form. That would be amazing and still very fitting, perhaps it's a mix of having learned some tricks from druid, fey and changelings and disguising different parts to look very animal like, but it's a dagger made in such a way that it looks like a claw or something. How could this^ not be super rogue like?
@@woutvanostaden1299 I don't know if you have watched the anime Fairy tale , but the character Elfman in the beginning changes his arm usually to an animals arm or leg depending on the animal. but you could homebrew a rogue that changes his arms and maybe legs later giving different boosts depending on the animal. Maybe a chameleon arm to camouflage your attacks to give advantage proficiency times per day. Or cheetah legs to boost your speed by 15 feet.
versatile trickster is very niche and weak. As you said previously, the AT uses the wizard spell list and should focus on spell that do not use saving throw. Guess what spell is on the wizard spellist and do not use a saving throw? Find Familiar. That familiar cannot attack, true, but he can provide the help action which in turn gives an advantage on your attack WITHOUT needing a bonus action.
So versatile trickster is good if your familiar died, or if you expect to have a reaction attack and want to use your familiar to gain advantage on your next attack and you cannot use cunning action to hide (let's keep in mind that for hiding you need to break the line of sight, so yes that lonely pillar that everyone knows you are hiding behind still count as hiding. And with Tasha steady aim... Versatile trickster lost even MORE of it's already limited utility
10/10 is a bit exaggerated:
the spellcasting: they could have let the player CHOOSE what 2 schools to specialize on. My vision of the arcane trickster uses his magic to divine ahead (divination) and enhance my assassination attack (conjuration or transmutation or evocation), but no here I need to mind control others (enchantment) or trick them (illusion). Giving more options is always better.
Same with Versatile Trickster, even before Tasha, the find familiar spell was doing a better job. They need to remove that bonus action.
Mage hand should have a way longer duration. it's ridiculous that I need to recast it every minute. Sure it's a cantrip it doesn't matter but it's annoying. giving it an 8 hours duration would be a quality of life improvement
This subclass may not be the strongest in the game but it has a special place in my heart
Literally made an arcane trickster today to start ToA next week, perfect timing
We take those
Great... another char that I want to play now.
AT Rogue gives the rogue offensive progression between 3 and 9, something every other rogue lacks.
Versatile Trickster is actually an example of bad PHB design. It doesn't modify the way you use mage hand, it gives you an additional action if the mage hand is already out. To use it, the mage hand has to be already next to the target, you can't move it as a part of the action. So you have to use a bonus action or action to set this up a turn early, pray they don't move, then bonus action to trigger a sneak attack. It's clunky and counter intuitive. I expect this to be changed come 5.5e.
As for AT spells, here are some of the standout choices as being a rogue does change some of your focus. None of these require a good intelligence score.
- Booming / Green Flame Blade: You can sneak attack with this and it is an overall damage bump at 5th level. Combine booming with disengage to prompt the bonus damage more often.
- Find Familiar: Counts as a creature for sneak attack purposes or a help action if you want advantage too, you might even be able to get away with having the familiar ride you. Owls are a classic but bat's blind sight is a useful tool for a rogue. The flying monkey if available also has hands for thievery.
- Shield / Absorb Elements: Overlaps with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, but can have upside in some situations. Use them all as appropriate
- Minor Illusion / Silent Image: Illusion classics that can provide mobile cover where none exists.
- Silvery Barbs: Give yourself advantage for a guaranteed sneak next turn, plus it's enchantment.
- Disguise Self / Alter Self: pairs well with expertise in deception for a charisma based rogue.
- Unseen Servant: It's not as good as a familiar but it is invisible and can cause a lot of mayhem.
- Borrowed Knowledge: This used to be Enhance Ability to buff your skills, but gaining the proficiency is better once you get reliable talent.
- Shadow Blade: Is finesse, provides advantage, and the all psychic sneak attack is rarely resisted. The 3rd level up cast is worth it.
- Phantom Steed: Allows you to steady aim while retaining a high movement speed. Also counts as a creature for sneak attack.
- Summon Spells: All of these are about the same, creatures that do damage, count as a creature, and maybe provides flanking if your party uses it
- Greater Invisibility: Permanent offensive advantage and defensive disadvantage, good stuff.
My arcane trickster took green flame blade as a cantrip. When you only get one attack per round this really beefs up that attack especially if you get stealth attack and as my got, a flame tongue short short. For first level spell from any school I took shield, for my second level I took invisibility, and tor my third I took haste.
I totally expect people to dip paladin to add divine smite and bless (for better to hit chance) perhaps if you like hiding in obscurity (😂 so pretty much every rogue, but what I mean is hiding in fog cloud for something similar to warlocks darkness+devilsight combo by using the blind fighting style. It's amazing on a flying race) and depending on how far you are willing to go gaining extra attack or even an aura to abuse is great.
I give it 6/10
1. Narrow school selection makes it harder to select most useful spells and also disincentivizes maxing spell casting ability. Illusion magic is the most arbitrarily treated school by DMs and mileage can vary dramatically
2. No Ritual casting to conserve meager spell slots and opportunities
3. No boost to combat effectiveness.
4. Mage hand duration is annoying and requires the DM to hand wave it or else you have to recast it. Also things it carries are not invisible, so anyone can notice objects floating in the air
5. Bonus action economy is already overloaded for rogues, so now using it to manipulate your mage hand interferes with your hide/disengage or extra attack (crossbow expert/dual wielding)
Some ideas that could improve the Arcane Trickster pick one or two
A) Casting Ability: Dexterity
It didn’t break the game to allow weapon wielding with casting ability on Hexblade, Bladesingers, or Battlesmiths… I think allowing rogues to cast their tiny number of low level spells with Dex would help.
B) Hand to Hand Combat
Recommend the mage hand be able to be used on an enemy distracting it and either providing the rogue with sneak attack opportunities or a Hex like debuff. If that is too powerful, how about the hand being able to hold a shield granting half cover or that the extra hand removes the reloading property granting a bonus action ranged attack, or with thrown weapons, the mage hand throws an illusory copy of what you throw but if it hits it does 1 point of damage and allows you to apply your sneak attack dice if your throw missed. Roll your attack twice essentially. This would work like Bracer of Flying Daggers.
C) The Hedge Wizard
Grant the Arcane Trickster with a ritual casting ability for extra versatility and reduced dependence on meager spell slots
D) Add double proficiency bonus for Arcana Skill
E) Remove school restrictions and perhaps class. Mage Hand should not count as one of the three Cantrips
F) Grant rogue subtle spell metamagic and regain 1 point on short rest
H) Allow sneak attack to be applied to Cantrip attacks as if it were a qualifying weapon attack PB times per day.
Luckily most of the problems have been solved in one dnd