Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:26 Gojo VS Jogo 6:00 Tai Lung VS Furious 5 7:46 Dragons VS Armies 10:19 Dae-Su VS Thugs 13:05 Thanos VS Avengers & Guardians 16:18 Saitama VS Boros
Along the lines of Dae-Su vs the thugs, I was actually thinking about the Netflix Daredevil series, specifically the halfway fight early in season 1, and I was hoping it would be here because I was curious about your thoughts, I actually need to go rewatch it myself, I don't remember specifics but I think it avoids the one-thug-at-a-time thing until it's justified because Daredevil has beaten the thugs to the point only one of them can stand up to fight him at a time 😂
Basically every fight from the World Trigger manga is a masterclass in strategy, and is usually a david v golaiath. One thing I love is that its never just the heroes who are smart. No one ever loses due to being an idiot, just by the opponent having a more thought out plan. I think the first fight in the B Rank Wars arc is a great fight to illustrate this since it requires very little context to understand, making it good for making a point in a 20-30 minute video. Note that the anime is awful so reading it will probably be farm more enjoyable and interesting.
"One thug at a time" works well if the choreography makes it clear that the fly swatter is maneuvering to make his opponents face him one at a time. For example, if he chooses a chokepoint for the fight, or stays mobile so the group has to keep chase and he keeps singling out opponents. That's how you beat multiple opponents in real life, after all.
In the Witcher 3 game there's a castle ruins full of bandits I always tackle way too early in order to get a specific reward, and it has literally dozens of bandits, with reinforcements spawning in, and since I'm so underleveled I basically die in two hits, making it impossible to survive unless I use the terrain to my advantage. From being a real pain in the ass, it has grown to be my favorite fight in the entire game, because I feel like a goddamn musketeer fighting my way around a castle, finding choke points in doorways and on stairs, forced to actually use my spells creatively to stay alive instead of just using the same few trusty spells in the same way in every fight. Any movie fight where someone is facing more than three opponents who don't all rush him makes me roll my eyes so hard.
@@korganrocks3995 Eh depends, it gets difficult to swarm a guy all at once after a certain point, because you are more likely to hit your allies than the little left of your opponent, and different weapons clear different amounts of space near a person- though in most cases it usually makes sense to form a ring around the foe even if you are not actively engaging. Of course most things in film are exxagerated to the point of breaking suspension of belief, but the inversion of a flawed or false picture is still seldom the completly correct one
@@No-longer1 This is why the lone fighter having a blade(preferably a long one) makes this kind of thing much more realistic, because no one wants to get too close to it. A lone fighter wielding a blunt weapon or no weapon at all is easily taken down by several people rushing him at once. Whether this actually is what happens in real fights when a single person is outnumbered doesn't actually matter for the realism; all that matters is what the average viewer finds realistic. Most people have not participated in or seen fights between one person and multiple opponents in reality, so while we might be way off, we'll still be bothered by the perceived unrealistic scene.
in a D&D encounter one time my character's party encountered an enemy who was way too strong for all of us at once. so my character cast shape earth on the ledge under his feet to trip him up so we could RUN!
The opening of the Kung Fu Panda Bridge fight is very cool visual storytelling. Ti Lung switches to walking on the support rope, forcing Tigress to shift her balance while he remains collected and relaxed. Even before the fight begins, he’s already in control and throwing her opponents off their rhythem
With regards to the last fight shown here, that being the Saitama V Boros fight, there's also another layer to the whole thing that feeds into characterisation. Boros gives a monologue preceding the one he was interrupted in, where he explains he spent 20 years flying across the entire universe seeking a worthy opponent. While Saitama never did any searching by conquering planets, he does fully understand the boredom Boros faces, so him not fighting back and even asking "Are you done?" mid-monologue adds to his characterisation that he's deliberately giving Boros a chance to fight at full power to give him that thrill Saitama himself thinks he'll never find. That very characterisation is the reason the fight goes on as long as it does, and yet it still works because Boros is using new powers and transforms twice within the relatively small space of 12 or so minutes.
Viewers are always waiting for Saitama rival during the show. And Boros fight really gives them (hope) that "this is it". But yeah, it's actually just heavily masked fly swatting You just don't expect this guy survive THIS MUCH damage. But Saitama just doesn't care😂
Part of what makes it spectacular is the sheer spectacle of it. The manga is exceedingly well drawn, which sells the sheer scale of carnage that the fighters (Mainly Boros) inflict: blowing through thousands of decks, ripping hull plating, smashing Saitama so hard he hits the moon, and that beautiful contrast of how the cloud cover is completely spilt. All that just doesn't affect our character in any meaningful way. Sure, the fight has zero tension as Satamina clearly isn't giving his all, even though his normal series of attacks are pretty basic and has all the energy of "well I guess I better finish it now because this is getting out of hand. Oh, and I'll throw one punch with intent to kill to finish the fight". But every panel is drawn gloriously which sells the sheer scale of the conflict that we can't help but be entertained. Plus we had the S-class heroes build up just how damn challenging Boro's minions are, so we are fully sold on how big a deal this fight is, just the protagonist is just too strong to even care. That sets the stakes that isn't exceeded until much later in the manga.
Another thing that makes the Saitama/Boros fight interesting is how it turns the antagonist into basically the underdog: as the fight goes on, the focus slowly shifts from Saitama, who’s having an easy time as always, to Boros who’s really giving his all and even enjoying this surprising challenge that suddenly fell into his hands. Every time Saitama tanks his moves, or resists one of his power-ups, Boros doesn’t feel fear, or rage, but excitement and fulfillment. All of this helps making an ultimately one-note, derivative character more endearing and memorable, to the point one may even root for him, a little bit
I've ended up saving that episode in my video collection. I go back to it from time to time it's a great episode. The part where Saitama starts to show more interest as Boros survies a Punch is also a nice touch. The destructive showcase of power that everyone else outside of their fight witnesses also help to sell it
The duality of these two in the fight is a perfection. In the end, when Boros recognizes Saitama holding back, and you see that shot of our One Punch Man walking away, it doesn't feel like his victory. Before, there was this dream of his, when he actually struggled against some made-up underground monsters. And he was HAPPY. Here, it's made a reality, but flipped - yes, Boros dies, but he also has the most fun in ages, the only thing that he craved. And Saitama KNOWINGLY give him that. Didn't hold back because HE wanted to have some fun, no - he is in the usual state of apathy. Instead, he did so, by recognizing himself in Boros and giving HIM the fulfillment that he wanted/needed so much. The weirdly fucked-up act of ultimate understanding and kindness. This one fight does so much work for character of Saitama in such a short time, it's actually masterful.
My favourite fly swatting scene that comes to mind is Gojo vs Jogo, Hanami, Choso, and Mahito. The fact that they have a reasonable plan to counter Gojo, are taking advantage of the terrain and all of their abilities to the fullest, and yet Gojo still brutally decimates them is amazing to watch. Especially when he manages to focus down Hanami and fully finish him off, too often in fights are characters slapped around and left until they can get back up. It's the first time we see Gojo go all-out and actually have to exert himself, and it's got great characterizations for all characters involved, great strategy from the weaker side, and great visuals and animation to back it all up. Truly an instant classic.
I think this fight is not a fly swatting fight because in the end they win, they don't kill him but they manage to capture him because of Kenjaku. And this results in the escalation of the Shibuya incident.
I'd argue it's more of a David Vs Goliath fight due to the outcome and because the weaker side employs a lot of strategy to try to beat the stronger side but i digress
I think another perfect example of fly swatting from One Punch Man comes even before Boros: The Deep Sea King fight. He quickly becomes the biggest threat we've seen so far in the show, the stakes are quickly set that he can (and will) destroy every human on that and every other city, we see every character struggle in the show so far fight with their all only to fail, it develops Genos character because he chooses to almost sacrifice himself for a random girl (before this fight, he didn't even care for civilian casualties) and shows Mumen Rider (a "nobody" without power who does as much as he always can and more to help) try to take on Deep Sea while giving a moving speech, only to fail completely afterwards. It's a fly swatting in the villain's favour. And at the end, when Saitama finally arrives, they pull the rug from under the spectator feet, and the fight's over before Deep Sea King can even land a punch. The fly swatting reverses, and then we see how everyone cheers for Saitama, but dismisses everyone else's sacrifice just because they couldn't defeat the monster. So he discredits himself saying it was because of everyone else and he'll steal the credit. So the glory goes back to those who almost gave their lives for the fight, even if it means he'll be hated by everyone, because he doesn't care about his image, his name or his "brand". He genuinely wants to help not because he'll get something for it, but because he has the power to do so. And this fight shows how far he's wiling to go, sacrificing his public image for the sake of everyone else's The fight's a double fly swatting that feels interesting, develops two character, leaves you with a better understanding of the protagonist and never overstays it's welcome since it ends in literally a single punch
Personally I don’t think that saitama “doesn’t care” about his image. He cares just a little bit. We see him get frustrated during the meteor event, the hammer head gang jackin his bald look, and caped baldy is not a name he really likes. It’s just that when push comes to shove he prioritizes other people over his own well being.
@@yukii381it would be better to say that it isn't his priority. He cares about it but won't let it get in the way of helping people, good deals, his friends or having fun as a hero.
Mumen Rider is the greatest hero of all. He is just A Guy, no powers, no strength, but he never backs away from heroic ideals, and will absolutely 100% do everything he can to help others.
Battle against the Deep Sea King was such a good arc. Even Saitama was feeling down because how easily he defeated it, reinforcing his depression, yet he pushed through and made the most heroic decision: give the credit to the rest of the team.
Deep Sea King was never the biggest threat in the show. Carnage Kabuto, Vaccine Man, and Beefcake smash him. You're also wrong that Genos didn't care about civilian casualties, his whole motivation is avenging civilian casualties and when he first showed up he checked for casualties before firing his ultimate attack as Mosquito Girl. Is this even a real post or was it AI generated? Unless you're just THAT bad at analysing media.
I feel like there's a handful of good situations for one-at-a-time fights and that fight scene actually makes sense to me. It's a fairly narrow hallway with a bunch of street thugs who probably didn't discuss strategy in advance. A lot of them are wielding weapons they use in wide-swinging arcs, which don't work well in narrow spaces. The dude they're fighting also has a weapon. So, naturally, it takes a second for everyone to get up to speed and they only work well together once or twice. Some of them are more aggressive than others, some hang back because they're worried about catching a stray from a friend, etc. I think it was about as close to realistic as it could get and still have the good guy win.
One at a time is how 1vX are won in real life, because good positionning, friendly fire and untrained cohesiveness allows to force successive 1v1s. Go look at fights, go look at weapon sparring. One at a time is far from an automatic sin. That being said, what was shown was the most unwinnable situation I have ever seen. All his "good exemples" had the 1 in the 1vX be clearly physically superior in an open field, so with way better odds. If he ever lost suspension of disbelief, it's not because of one at a time, it's because the guy won at all.
I think the better David vs Goliath fights are the ones where David's goal isn't to defeat Goliath, just secure an objective that is within their reach when outright victory would be impossible for them. Tien from Dragonball Z isn't really allowed to win any fights after Dragonball given the universal power scaling being a joke for humans, but he's able to hold Semiperfect Cell off for a while to allow other characters to escape by using a move that could never kill Cell, but it can push him deeper and deeper into a crater so that he can't get up and pursue his targets. Tien burns through his own life energy, showing he's putting way more into this than Cell is to close the power gap a bit while Cell needs energy to still actually win a fight when he gets out, and Tien's doing it to cause a disruption way above his weight class rather than outright victory. There's no question at any point that Cell could kill Tien, but rather the drama is in whether or not Tien can successfully stall Cell before burning out his own life or slipping up and dying to Cell. The audience doesn't know the outcome the same way they do when weaker protagonist must defeat stronger antagonist for narrative conclusion, as Tien can simply die and the narrative moves on to the obviously stronger characters who are going to be the real battle, but it kept our attention to see how it went down.
This was the first thing I thought about when I read the title- instances when the stakes are not tied to who wins the fight, but some other aspect of it. "Sure, character A isn't going to beat character B, but can A keep B distracted long enough for C to escape with the macguffin?" Actually, that Vader scene from Star Wars: Rogue One is a great example of this.
For David vs Goliath fights, I >BEG OF YOU< to use some Hunter x Hunter fight. Doesn't matter which. It can be Gon vs Genthru, it can be Killua vs the Chimera Ant siblings, it can be Meruem vs Netero, it can be... SO MANY of the fights in that show. That show is the KING of David vs Goliath fights and your video on the topic will NOT be complete without it. It's also the inspiration for JJK.
Jujutsu tech students againtst the forest curse was a fly swatting until the arrival of besto friendos at which point it became a david and goliath battle Poor david had a real hard time managing the boogie woogie and yuji "Black flash mashinegun" itadori
HunterxHunter also does something interesting for flyswatting, in that is characterizing the loser and failing to use their nen to the fullest, as with hisoka vs kastro or Morelle vs Cheetu.
I love how this happens in Baki When Baki fights someone, it's like "How is he gonna beat this guy" because Baki usually goes for opponents stronger than him When Yujiro fights someone, it's still like "How's he gonna beat this guy" because despite winning every fight in like ten seconds, Yujiro never beats his enemies with a normal punch. It's usually something insane like ripping a dudes face off with one hand or pushing them through an entire convenience store
Bro Ryu Kaioh was crazy STILL trying to fight Yujiro after getting his face ripped off. Mans had to get roundhouse kicked in his skinless face and had Retsu begging before he gave up
Old Boy: you're missing out that this is happening in a narrow corridor preventing them to all attack at the same time. You also probably got confused by the side view which is only a cinematic view as opposed to what is really happening in the movie and some actors might be stepping a bit out of where they should have stayed when they all attack at the same time. As for 20 guys attacking at the same time, try it with 19 of your friends armed with a baseball bat vs a moving piñata and you'll see that it requires crazy coordination if you don't want to hit each others bats, hands, arms and face. Everyone is hesitating and scared of their teammates who could hit them by accident.
Old boy being mentioned as a bad fight was something i didn't expected at all. The fight was never intended to be a great fight, where Odesu can show off his skills. The movie is about him and the antagonists crazy revenge fantasy. Odesu just did some work out in a room for years on end without any fighting skills. The Hallway where the fight mentioned takes place in was not only very narrow but also wet, and you can even see the thugs slipping on the floor or missing hits due to space and slipping, same with Odesu. On top of that, noone won the fight. Odesu managed to get out there alive, since noone really wanted to continue to battle as Odesu is clearly insane, unpredictable and managed to get through the mass of people. Its one of the best fight scenes in cinema for the whole choreography being in one single shot, where the fight in itself is cohesive (in comparison he could have used the Old Boy Remake fight scene as a bad example instead), and realistically not a single person realistically would have been able to get out of Odesus situation alive
Perfectly said. I also made a comment on this but yours is much more concise. The whole video’s credibility sort of went down for me when somehow one of the greatest 1vX scenes in film history is being slandered like this. Want an example of an actual dogshit scene? The Oldboy American remake fight scene. That is clearly what the video should have referenced.
Thanos is pretty arrogant when you think about. He thought and knew there was no way they’d bounce back from that, and in the end when he died on Titan he didn’t care because he did what he needed to do.
@@alex2005z at risk of sounding stupid (I haven't seen the movie), if you plan on killing half the universe, there's no reason not to start with a couple guys in front of you, right?
@@Squampopulous I think he wanted the stones to decide who lives or dies or something. Plus he is "Honest" about the way he does thing and he does keep deals
@@Squampopulous i think you also forgot that in that scene the fight took place in a tight hallway, making it so that there was very little room for them to attack all at once.
@@glatykoffi6672 yep the key to winning or at least surviving ganking in real life is to force the opponents to a situation that makes their number advantage useless
14:30 In general defense of the "waiting to use your full power" trope, it actually does make realistic sense when you think of it terms of how easy it is to use some of your strength vs all of it. Why drop a nuke on every opponent, when a few punches will do? Once they start showing a chance of actually winning, though, that's when the cost becomes outweighed by the possibility of actually losing the fight, and that's when it makes sense to use your full power.
It also does work for characterisation, specifically to display a character’s pride. A good example of this would be Emiya Shirou vs Gilgamesh in Fate: Unlimited Blade Works, where Gilgamesh explicitly states that he would consider using his full power to be a loss, because that’s the standard he must hold himself to as a king. He loses because he doesn’t use his strongest weapon, but it doesn’t feel unsatisfying at all because it’s entirely realistic for him to do so. Thanos also works in that context, because he’s an egomaniac and equally has his pride to uphold. He takes his armour off at the beginning of the movie for exactly that reason, he doesn’t believe anything is a threat to him with the stones. And when he does almost lose the gauntlet, he panics and immediately starts spamming his strongest attacks, exactly how you’d expect someone in that situation to do.
5:00 The explaining bit caught my eye because Gege made jjk have a GREAT way around the cliché of characters explaining their techniques for no reason. In jjk universe, you can make a binding vow that can make your technique output stronger if you explain how it works.
The 1v1 nature of the oldboy hallway fight is so easily forgiven due to a couple things. First: It's in a hallway, that really limits how many people can come for him at once. Second: As the fight goes on, the thugs are clearly scared and don't want to fight and get their ass kicked.
The main flaw in powerscaling is that most (like 99.9%) of authors don't write fights in accordance to what some nerds on the internet calculated. Storytelling/writing just works differently and the plot and character arcs are in most cases way more important to the outcome of a fight than what the combatans are theoratically capable of. So it's fine if you just do it for fun but some get really obsessive about it and get outright mad when fights don't play out to their expectatoins.
The Oldboy fight also has the added element of being in a hallway, if he fought them on a parking lot he'd definitely lose but the hallway makes it more even.
14:20 Personally, I disagree with this point. I do believe that in most circumstances Thanos should have ,and would have, taken them all out, but there exists a problem. Thanos wants something from them. It isn't unreasonable to believe that Thanos understood the situation with Doctor Strange, and this scene showcases his wisdom. He knows that Doctor Strange has what he wants, and he has to give it up willingly. I believe this is the purpose of his actions. I believe that this scene shows how he is still a creature with fear, but he has ambition and wisdom that allowed him to have made it this far. I think that the writers included this as a way to express him as a very complex character. This is also why he doesn't slaughter everyone after he wins the time stone. The writers wanted to further the plot that Thanos is egotistical yet merciful, and the decision for him to not finish off one of the greatest threats to his conquest expresses that.
Huh… I thought the opposite lol. Thanos is at the end of his lifelong goal and is basking before the final part. I thought one of the writers must’ve been trying to pigeonhole him into the traditional villain role of monologuing or toying with the heros before finishing their evil plan. Where’s the fun in ending his journey with an insta-win fight via the gauntlet? Why not make the ending fight a hard fought, drawn out beat-down? The bards will sing of this tale for eons. Interesting how different a take we can have XD
1) the One Punch Man anime predates the manga. It started as a webcomic. 2) Saitama’s killer move is literally just to take the fight remotely seriously.
I’ve actually been having a lot of trouble with this, thanks. My series that I’m writing has an OP antagonist that is supposed to be a benchmark for the characters to grow to. I wanted to showcase that strength without the butt-whooping being too boring to watch. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately, and this helped me think some things over.
Just because the hallway scene doesn't fit your neat categorization doesn't detract from the magnum opus of cinema that scene was. That scene was pure art.
5:10 Small correction here: This isn't the first time a domain expansion is used in jjk. Sukuna used a domain against the finger bearer a few episodes ago in episode 4. However, this IS the first time that they explain how it works and show that other characters can use it aside from Sukuna. Sukuna's domain expansion was meant to leave the viewer curious as to what it was and how it worked, then it leads to this episode where both Jogo and Gojo use a domain expansion and gojo explains it to both yuji and us, the audience. Haven't watched the rest of the video since I wanted to point this out but it is VERY entertaining and informative as of now! Keep up the good work 👍
Not mentioned with the Gojo vs Jogo fight is that exposition fits into the actual mechanics of JJK's power system. The Binding Vow. Giving up something in return for an upgrade in your technique. A sorceror explaining to their opponent about how their power works gives up the element of surprise, allowing the opponent possibly finding a work around but boosting that power's effectiveness in return.
I think the best example of a 1 v. many fly-swatting fight that I can think of is the Warehouse fight in Batman v. Superman. Regardless of how you feel about Batman’s characterization, the fight excellently shows how it avoids the tired enemies-taking-turns trope. The most crucial moment of this fight is Batman’s opener as it gives him many advantages against a group: 1) allows him to take the jump on an entire room full of armed men. If you don’t already know, Batman initiated the fight by blowing up the ground beneath the middle of the group. This gives him a unique angle in the fight. 2) some of the men fall through the hole and are instantly taken out of the equation 3) those remaining fall to the ground disoriented 4) this gives Batman enough time to grapple to the ceiling which gives him the vantage point 5) because the thugs never saw him, they still assume he was down there and start firing in the wrong direction 6) Batman’s hidden vantage point gives him the opportunity to use his superior equipment in order to neutralize all of the rifles in the room 7) the device that neutralizes the guns also act as a mini explosive that will take out some of the goons and disorient others 8) after all is said and done, the remaining few are left scattered leaving low chances to jump Batman Once he finally engages in combat, he still uses his superior speed, skill, and gadgetry to dispatch goons and keep others at bay. At most he gets jumped by 3 people. The only guns that still work are measly side arms that can’t penetrate his cowl and gauntlets.
One thing to make fights more interesting is alternative objectives. e.g. Gon doesn't need to defeat Hisoka, he just needs to take his badge/land a good punch A fight can be interesting if each party has a different victory condition.
@@Squampopulous Also, some things you didn't talk about with Boros: At the end of the first ep saitama has a dream where he fights opponents that can actually fight him, and there's a moment where we see his stylised heartbeat to show his excitement. Just before Boros' final attack, we see a colour-inverted version of the same heartbeat from Boros. Saitama fought Boros like he did in order to give meaning to his life, because he related to his boredom. Their characters have strong parallels, and it's more thematic than most people think.
Speaking of Hunter X Hunter and alternative objectives, the fly swatting fight between Gon and Hanzo is interesting for exactly this reason. Here, the fly actually wins, because he completes his objective, while the fly swatter doesn't.
I’ve been loving your videos I’ve been here for about 3 weeks and you make some of my favourite videos I love watching people analyze movies characters and genres
I would say the big thing worth discussing that didn't show up in this video is the characterization options for the loser of the fight. I don't mean the Naruto-style "let's find out what this guy's deal is in the last 2 seconds before he dies" moment, but rather the flyswattings where characters are left alive. You mention it, kinda, with the joke about "learning more about Quill," but there are a lot of fights - particularly if the one who loses is the protagonist - where a flyswatting is a chance to learn how our character deals with failure, fear, or pain.
Vi and Jayce vs the chemtanks is such a good flyswatting scene because it goes from the enforcers fly swatting the workers, the chemtanks flyswatting the enforcers, and then Vi and Jayce (a character with no fight experience) fly swats the chemtanks, thus showing how insanely overpowering and dangerous Hextech is.
Tbh I think they should’ve used the scene to show Vi in her element while showing Jayce to be stumbling, although being more knowledgeable about his own weapon’s capabilities. Still good fight overall though
Idk if this would count as a toss up or a david-goliath but the Tanjiro vs Rui fight would be great imo. I love when fights show the conviction of the "david" in that tanjiro was willing to decapitate rui even if hed be slashed to ribbons. If not this fight itd be cool for you to include a fight in which the "david" has overwhelming conviction, that shit gets me every time. Love the vids man keep it up
The part I liked about Tai-Lung Vs. The F5 is at the very beginning. Tai-Lung is casually lounging about the ropes of the bridge and Tigress has to stumble in order to find her footing (while saying ‘how do you know I’m not the dragon warrior’). It’s a very subtle detail, but it just really contrasts the power of Tai-Lung vs. Tigress.
One of my favorite fly swatting fights is Red vs Blue's Agent texas vs York, Wyoming and Maine. There are quite some interesting details in the fight that show us more about Texas and also York. It was shown already that Agent Texas was the goat, she already had 2 fly swatting fights where she performed really good, but this time, we get to see that even against top tier agents, she can dispatch them pretty easily (even though York was trying to get Wyoming and Maine to work together and they refused to do so). We see yet again during the bo staff fight round, hand to hand round, and also gun fight round that she mops the floor with them, with most of the time showing off, and i think it is a good detail from the animator that she tries to do these tricks and being cool because some time after that, it'll make sense why she is always depicted like that. Anyways, we see York more into York's personality as someone that makes jokes and satirizes most situations, no matter how hard they get. We get to a a certain gunfight round where Wyoming and Maine are given live rounds and grenades instead of non-lethal ammo, and they go straight to try to kill Texas despite being in a practice session. York gets fed uo with this situation as he didn't know why was it happening, so he tries to help Texas, even though it was the first time he met her. We see that York tried to do the right thing even if it means that he has to betray his teammates. On the other hand Texas reacts to this by saying "I don't need your help, never abandon your team", even though she was dealing with 2 top tier agents that were actively trying to kill her, which shows how she values loyalty (despite that she always tries to do things on her own) above everything, or maybe not, but that's a spoiler. And yeah, she rejects York's help and even gets to beat his ass in one of her outburst of rage when she got shot in the shoulder by Wyoming. At the end of the fight, Maine accidentally throws a grenade to York, he couldn't react to it because he was stunned after getting hit by a huge block of concrete. How he survives the grenade? Texas started shooting York with the non-lethal rounds (which on impact it creates like a pink mass that blocks the movement of the armor, so yeah it was used to reduce the impact York would receive), and this also shows that, despite Texas valuing so much loyalty, she is not a senseless murderer and wants to do the right thing. And these traits have a big impact later on and explains why everything turned out to be the way it was (i forgot to tell that the fight took place way earlier than the current events of the show)
Great videos. Seems like Kill Bill has a tone of excellent examples of these different types of fights. I think it does what you're talking about quite well. I really thought about it thinking about how the sword fight against the gang is an example of somehow having a fight against a huge number not just fall into the 'they line up and fight one at a time' trope. So for David v. Goliath I might say that The Bride vs. Budd. Maybe it's not enough of a 'fight scene' but we've seen her absolutely mow down everyone in her path, and then she is going after this out of shape has been, who uses his apparent weakness to hit her with a shotgun blast. Very tactical in context.
I think it might actually be one of the best David vs Goliaths I’ve ever seen, because not only does the Goliath, Ushijima, not feel weaker as the game goes on, he only gets stronger and stronger, to the point where at the end he’s one of the best depictions of a realistic character feeling genuinely superhuman. He outshines the entire rest of the cast by such a huge margin and yet because the context of the “fight” is a team sport, he’s still beatable. And they don’t even take the easy way out of having him be strong but his team be weak, the rest of his team still all feel realistically strong, but it somehow still doesn’t feel unrealistic when they lose. There’s some alchemy there, and I do feel some slight fudging to make sure everything works, but it’s completely unnoticeable unless you overanalyse it to a completely ridiculous degree.
1:07 Who dat? Anyway, I appreciate this much more nuanced and detailed discussion of powerscaling. The unnecessary hyperbole in the last vid only served to obscure your point, imo, but this is a much clearer explanation of your argument.
14:43 I think the issue with the move is simply the existence of the move at all. The way Thanos should’ve defeated them was by learning their capabilities and abilities throughout the fight and then adapting and using that knowledge to defeat them, which of course he couldn’t have done immediately when they first jumped him. This, of course, would require complex fight choreography and writing which is beyond most of Marvel. Alternatively, establish some reason why he either couldn’t or was unwilling to use such a powerful move in the first place, for example show him absorbing power from their moves and storing it in the gauntlet, or show that at the start of the fight the Avengers and Guardians are fresh and able to take such a hit and keep fighting, then show them getting tired and then beaten by the same or a similar move later on.
Another great couple of David v Goliath fights have to be Spider-Man vs The Sinister Six from The Spectacular Spider-Man S1E11 and S2E3. Both of them are quite different and also showcase a great use of strategy against stronger opponents, or characterize the growing effects of the black suit.
ive been subscribed since the first video i watch from this channel and I just realised you have less then 100k subs craziest hidden gem ive ever seen. keep up the great work.
My personal favourite approach is the One Punch Man "matter of course" flyswatting. Character is in the middle of doing something, gets interrupted or attacked, swats away the attacker and goes back to what they were doing without breaking their train of thought. Rather like swatting a literal fly while dining outside and holding a conversation. One might remark on being annoyed at the fly, but it doesn't turn into an actual fight.
I think the rooftop fight scene at the end on Hardcore Henry is a great example of a David vs Goliath fight and I'd love to see it covered! The movie as a whole is great and you should 100% give it a watch. On another note tho, these vids are amazing and suuuper high quality and I'm excited to see more from you! Keep up the good work
This was really great! My only thought is it felt more like you were mainly talking about various fights in the context of your graph. I think you’ve got some great views and insights, would love an even deeper breakdown of things done right vs wrong, and ACTUALLY how a fight of this type can be crafted successfully.
I think a major things with Thanos is that he's very steadfast and focused on his self-righteous mission and doesn't view himself as any kind of tyrant or murderer, his moves tend to go just as far as necessary for optimal results, so while it may have been optimal to try and incapacitate everyone from the start he doesn't really behave like the antagonist until people insist on getting in his way. In the end, everyone will face off against chance when he achieves his goal.
A david vs goliath fight I like is Vetto the Despair vs the Black Bulls in Black Clover, the opponent is clearly stronger than everyone, and the one person who could stand a chance in a 1v1 is occupied, so they have to use their abilites together to win
I love the fight scene in Frieren: Beyond Journey's End, Frieren vs Aurora, where there was a hint that Frieren is OP, but you cannot be sure until the reveal of the backstory. The fight scene is, I think, a great example of fly-swatting.
Id love to see an analysis of commander erwin, not just that final fight (ofc that last one) but more importantly to me, the one where they charge titans and erwin gets his arm chomped off, that was the scene that sold me on his character, and his dedication to the cause. That his character is entirely about the cause, about militant action, and about the fierce determination for humanity to survive.
I think Saitama's fight was interesting because you see that moment where he's caught off guard and you wonder for a moment if he's finally going to be challenged. He keeps hoping to be challenged and so does the audience.
I think one of the interesting things about fly swatting with groups, is that it can easily seem like a lack of teamwork if they're getting swatted in their attempt. Imagine the bridge scene in kung fu panda, but after Mantis jolts the bridge, Tai Lung just knocks monkey to the ground, viper can't follow up and has to grab monkey before he falls, Crane gets struck down by a non-distracted Tai Lung, and Tai-Lung returns to beating the crap out of Tigress. Suddenly it becomes another case of fly swatting the group 1 by 1, but it's not because they don't have strategy, it's because their strategy failed against the excessive power of their opponent. In the Dae-Su VS Thugs example, it looks to me like a scenario where you see multiple people try to hit him at once, but he'll knock one guy into his friends, and then another guy will try to catch them, while Dae-Su is beating up another trying to get around him to surround him. It's a tight space and their strategy involves an initial failure, due to limited space and the excessive power of their opponent. In the end those that got knocked down are slowly making their way past other friends stumbling into them, before they get behind Dae-Su and win by surrounding him. Then you also have examples like Omni-Man vs the Guardians of the Globe, where Omni-Man specifically breaks their strategies by being significantly stronger than they expected. Every single attempt they make to wound or disorient him is reciprocated with a devastastating blow. Except for the first time Martian Man restrains him, each devastating blow results in one fewer team member, and immediately after the one attack that didn't result in dead team members, the reciprocated blow from the next attack kills two of their members anyway. Every time they try to do some combo attack where one disorients or restrains Omni-Man to create an opening, the person making that opening move is obliterated and the others have to recover and find a new opening with fewer resources, until only War Woman and the Immortal is there, who have no way to stop his incoming attacks and die immediately. So I think fly-swatting has that very unfortunate effect of often making a team seem incompetent when the issue is that their strategy does not make up for their power difference.
I feel like Fairy Tail would have some David vs Goliath done wrong. Example, when Natsu is that strong where his mere flames can melt stone, where he can evaporate an entire lake, but then next season it feels like his been nerfed. like that OP video game weapon you’ve loved using for its destructive tendencies and now it feels like it’s shooting out Cotten candy.
Regarding the Old Boy hallway fight scene, I think it does it well. for starters, unlike normal fights, this takes place in a small hallway, and as we see a lot of the thugs have sticks and weapons you gotta swing. They need room to do that, and even more to swing and not hit their own allies. That kind of forced positioning and decision making can lead to people standing there and waiting. Second, it's not like a Steven Segal movie where he tirelessly takes out 20 dudes one at a time. The entire time our protag is getting more and more tired. It makes some sense to wait to go in if the guy before you might tire the other guy out. Lastly, I think this works super well because it's all one single shot with no cuts. Flooding the screen with all the guys at once would cover the fight itself and prevent us from even seeing what's going on, including the knife stab. The whole fight is done with that camera in mind.
Really cool as always. This kind of videos always makes me think about fight scenes in the fiction pieces i like, and one of the best examples of fly swatting is gotta be most fights in re: zero. They never fail to showcase the characters, even tho you'll always know who will win. Especially with the new season airing fully packed with fight scenes.
Great video! I have one criticism however. The way you described One Punch Man makes it sound like the entire series is about Fly Swatting, but that’s only true when Saitama is on-screen, which isn’t always the case. There are plenty of fights without him, especially in season 2. These fights are still Fly Swatting sometimes, but not always. For example, I can think of 2 instances of World Cups right off the top of my head: the S-class heroes vs the aliens at the end of season 1, and Garou vs the A and B class heroes at the end of season 2, with the latter being one of my favorite fight scenes of all time.
Another example might be the Kenshin vs Shishio fight from Rurouni Kenshin Part III The Legend Ends (2014) but if that's not your cup of tea there's an excellent toss-up fight between Kenshin and Sojiro in Rurouni Kenshin Part II Kyoto Inferno (2014). Maybe it's something you can touch on in a later video?
For the first Thanos fight, I got the impression that these characters (most of whom only met shortly prior) were not good at working together and had to learn by receiving the beat down, which would be a humbling experience to the usually solo superheros. When critiquing a fight, I wouldn't call out just the writers. A good fight needs the director, fight choreographer, visual effects supervisor, and the write all working together to be the best it can be. Great video!
It should also be noted on the exposition point that in JJK, explaining your abilities straight up empower them. It's a very fun way to get around what would otherwise be very clunky exposition on someone explaing how their power works.
What would have been cool is if Thanos had fought and learned his abilities along the way. It'll be similar to how a Mega Man level is designed where something new is introduced, then something else introduced, and then finally an a-ha moment where Thanos uses both new abilities at once to survive or finish a fight. A purple fireball later followed by a wave of bats would not only justify but characterize the purple wave attack not appearing earlier.
14:33 Actually... he doesn't really. At this point Thanos is more into getting the stones than he is trying to fight. Partly it's due to overconfidence in their power and partly because he's just not really into it. Since has a good chunk of them he's closer to his goal than he's been in a long time and so he really just wants to get things over with. As a result he doesn't give it his all in the fight because he doesn't think he _needs_ to. Which is something the Avengers play into. Their one-to-one approach in the beginning of the fight is deliberate (as well as the writers making a showcase of their abilities). They knew from the start their their chances of beating Thanos in a straight fight were practically impossible. And Thanos assumed that's what they wanted; having a misplaced confidence in their abilities to take him head on. However that was the ploy. They knew that Thanos didn't really want to fight himself, he was more focused on the Time Stone. So they realized that if they gave just enough of a fight to keep Thanos busy he wouldn't realize their true intent; getting him into the perfect position to get the glove off. They knew they'd only have one shot at this so they had to keep Thanos in the dark. Because the moment they failed Thanos got serious, since he had to keep the glove safe. The problem is that the plan isn't specifically stated so it comes across as the Avengers fighting stupidly. In reality it was the smartest play they had.
Your videos are great, love watching them. I highly recommend an anime movie called Sword of the Stranger for the world cup video you plan on making. The final fight is probably my favorite of any movie.
Great video, I really like how you clarified your point about powerscaling, I had the same questions as that commenter did. About the one-thug-at-a-time problem, I wonder what you think of the Madness Combat animations, I think they do have that problem quite often (the 5.5 episode is most notable for this in my opinion), but the sheer speed of the fight makes it believable most of the time. Also the characterization is quite lackluster? Though it does get better at the newer episodes. Anyway I just can't stop but enjoy the animations and I wanted to hear your opinion on it (even if it's a negative one).
Honestly if anything I was a little disappointed with MC12 because we watched Sanford get completely decimated and exhausted in 11, and now all of a sudden he's mostly back to being a badass killing machine again.
for david vs goliath I must mention the female titan arc from aot. from finding out shes an abnormal going for kills instead of eating people, knows to protect her nape, able to jump, abilty to focus healing on one eye, hardening, scream to attract titans, and actually a spy among them who is proficient with odm gear & able to titanize a 2nd time. everything is stacked up againist Eren. they know nothing about the opponent while the opponent knows so much about them, yet although they were unable to capture her, Annie, despite having so much advantages, didn't get what she wanted. its peak writing of both strategie and characterization for both sides and showcases the cruelty of war so well
The Bride vs. The Crazy 88 (from Kill Bill Vol. 1) needed to be mentioned here. It offers great characterization, mood-setting, and exposition. There was even a miniboss and boss fight. Tarantino basically checked every single box of every single trope related to this kind of fight.
Is fun to watch that other video blow up and now you're playing off that success to make a series delving into the details. Like watching a flower bloom. 😊
I think I saw one of your videos some weeks ago and didn't feel like it added anything to the scenes you commented but now your analyses are really pertinent and for any beginner writer are strong advice, so keep up the good work and keep improving mate you're doing tremendous work!
I think that the worst "one thug at a time" flyswatting fight scenes are those where the weaker side is clearly made to be uncoordinated and clumsy just to lose. But when the stronger side wins through sheer skill and power, I don’t mind if their abilities are overpowered. It still makes for an entertaining fight.
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:26 Gojo VS Jogo
6:00 Tai Lung VS Furious 5
7:46 Dragons VS Armies
10:19 Dae-Su VS Thugs
13:05 Thanos VS Avengers & Guardians
16:18 Saitama VS Boros
I think if you set these in the description the video will actually create in vid timestamps, not sure exactly how it works, great video!
@@PrinceVoiderit does
Along the lines of Dae-Su vs the thugs, I was actually thinking about the Netflix Daredevil series, specifically the halfway fight early in season 1, and I was hoping it would be here because I was curious about your thoughts, I actually need to go rewatch it myself, I don't remember specifics but I think it avoids the one-thug-at-a-time thing until it's justified because Daredevil has beaten the thugs to the point only one of them can stand up to fight him at a time 😂
Lots of fly swatting and David Vs Goliath fights in Ghost in the Shell, Stand Alone Complex has some of the best and worse stakes in fight scenes.
Basically every fight from the World Trigger manga is a masterclass in strategy, and is usually a david v golaiath. One thing I love is that its never just the heroes who are smart. No one ever loses due to being an idiot, just by the opponent having a more thought out plan. I think the first fight in the B Rank Wars arc is a great fight to illustrate this since it requires very little context to understand, making it good for making a point in a 20-30 minute video.
Note that the anime is awful so reading it will probably be farm more enjoyable and interesting.
"One thug at a time" works well if the choreography makes it clear that the fly swatter is maneuvering to make his opponents face him one at a time. For example, if he chooses a chokepoint for the fight, or stays mobile so the group has to keep chase and he keeps singling out opponents. That's how you beat multiple opponents in real life, after all.
In the Witcher 3 game there's a castle ruins full of bandits I always tackle way too early in order to get a specific reward, and it has literally dozens of bandits, with reinforcements spawning in, and since I'm so underleveled I basically die in two hits, making it impossible to survive unless I use the terrain to my advantage. From being a real pain in the ass, it has grown to be my favorite fight in the entire game, because I feel like a goddamn musketeer fighting my way around a castle, finding choke points in doorways and on stairs, forced to actually use my spells creatively to stay alive instead of just using the same few trusty spells in the same way in every fight.
Any movie fight where someone is facing more than three opponents who don't all rush him makes me roll my eyes so hard.
@@korganrocks3995
Eh depends, it gets difficult to swarm a guy all at once after a certain point, because you are more likely to hit your allies than the little left of your opponent, and different weapons clear different amounts of space near a person- though in most cases it usually makes sense to form a ring around the foe even if you are not actively engaging.
Of course most things in film are exxagerated to the point of breaking suspension of belief, but the inversion of a flawed or false picture is still seldom the completly correct one
@@No-longer1 This is why the lone fighter having a blade(preferably a long one) makes this kind of thing much more realistic, because no one wants to get too close to it. A lone fighter wielding a blunt weapon or no weapon at all is easily taken down by several people rushing him at once.
Whether this actually is what happens in real fights when a single person is outnumbered doesn't actually matter for the realism; all that matters is what the average viewer finds realistic. Most people have not participated in or seen fights between one person and multiple opponents in reality, so while we might be way off, we'll still be bothered by the perceived unrealistic scene.
It also works if he's intimidating enough to make people think twice before lunging at him.
in a D&D encounter one time my character's party encountered an enemy who was way too strong for all of us at once. so my character cast shape earth on the ledge under his feet to trip him up so we could RUN!
The opening of the Kung Fu Panda Bridge fight is very cool visual storytelling. Ti Lung switches to walking on the support rope, forcing Tigress to shift her balance while he remains collected and relaxed. Even before the fight begins, he’s already in control and throwing her opponents off their rhythem
great observation
He became a her apparently
Now that's Power
With regards to the last fight shown here, that being the Saitama V Boros fight, there's also another layer to the whole thing that feeds into characterisation. Boros gives a monologue preceding the one he was interrupted in, where he explains he spent 20 years flying across the entire universe seeking a worthy opponent. While Saitama never did any searching by conquering planets, he does fully understand the boredom Boros faces, so him not fighting back and even asking "Are you done?" mid-monologue adds to his characterisation that he's deliberately giving Boros a chance to fight at full power to give him that thrill Saitama himself thinks he'll never find. That very characterisation is the reason the fight goes on as long as it does, and yet it still works because Boros is using new powers and transforms twice within the relatively small space of 12 or so minutes.
wow yea this is a great point
Viewers are always waiting for Saitama rival during the show. And Boros fight really gives them (hope) that "this is it". But yeah, it's actually just heavily masked fly swatting
You just don't expect this guy survive THIS MUCH damage. But Saitama just doesn't care😂
Part of what makes it spectacular is the sheer spectacle of it. The manga is exceedingly well drawn, which sells the sheer scale of carnage that the fighters (Mainly Boros) inflict: blowing through thousands of decks, ripping hull plating, smashing Saitama so hard he hits the moon, and that beautiful contrast of how the cloud cover is completely spilt. All that just doesn't affect our character in any meaningful way.
Sure, the fight has zero tension as Satamina clearly isn't giving his all, even though his normal series of attacks are pretty basic and has all the energy of "well I guess I better finish it now because this is getting out of hand. Oh, and I'll throw one punch with intent to kill to finish the fight". But every panel is drawn gloriously which sells the sheer scale of the conflict that we can't help but be entertained. Plus we had the S-class heroes build up just how damn challenging Boro's minions are, so we are fully sold on how big a deal this fight is, just the protagonist is just too strong to even care. That sets the stakes that isn't exceeded until much later in the manga.
Yes!
@@LaserTractor anyone that understands one punch man knows that boros had zero chance to do anything.
Was about to call this video out for plagiarism until I saw it was literally the same guy who uploaded the other video XD
@@AbyssPriestess hahaha welcome back
I just had the exact same thing, I subbed so I don't forget
SAME
haha silly
LOL I am glad I wasn't the only person who thought this hahaha
Another thing that makes the Saitama/Boros fight interesting is how it turns the antagonist into basically the underdog: as the fight goes on, the focus slowly shifts from Saitama, who’s having an easy time as always, to Boros who’s really giving his all and even enjoying this surprising challenge that suddenly fell into his hands. Every time Saitama tanks his moves, or resists one of his power-ups, Boros doesn’t feel fear, or rage, but excitement and fulfillment.
All of this helps making an ultimately one-note, derivative character more endearing and memorable, to the point one may even root for him, a little bit
yup, goes to show how flyswatting has such a strong impact on characterization
Yes! Even the music follows Boros through his beats and transformations, Boros is fully the main character of that fight
I've ended up saving that episode in my video collection. I go back to it from time to time it's a great episode. The part where Saitama starts to show more interest as Boros survies a Punch is also a nice touch. The destructive showcase of power that everyone else outside of their fight witnesses also help to sell it
@VoidBringer_98 the sparring vs Genos was almost as great, and exceptional when it came to visuals
The duality of these two in the fight is a perfection. In the end, when Boros recognizes Saitama holding back, and you see that shot of our One Punch Man walking away, it doesn't feel like his victory. Before, there was this dream of his, when he actually struggled against some made-up underground monsters. And he was HAPPY.
Here, it's made a reality, but flipped - yes, Boros dies, but he also has the most fun in ages, the only thing that he craved. And Saitama KNOWINGLY give him that. Didn't hold back because HE wanted to have some fun, no - he is in the usual state of apathy. Instead, he did so, by recognizing himself in Boros and giving HIM the fulfillment that he wanted/needed so much. The weirdly fucked-up act of ultimate understanding and kindness.
This one fight does so much work for character of Saitama in such a short time, it's actually masterful.
My favourite fly swatting scene that comes to mind is Gojo vs Jogo, Hanami, Choso, and Mahito. The fact that they have a reasonable plan to counter Gojo, are taking advantage of the terrain and all of their abilities to the fullest, and yet Gojo still brutally decimates them is amazing to watch. Especially when he manages to focus down Hanami and fully finish him off, too often in fights are characters slapped around and left until they can get back up. It's the first time we see Gojo go all-out and actually have to exert himself, and it's got great characterizations for all characters involved, great strategy from the weaker side, and great visuals and animation to back it all up. Truly an instant classic.
Gojos one of the best fly swatters around
Hanami is a muscle mommy
I think this fight is not a fly swatting fight because in the end they win, they don't kill him but they manage to capture him because of Kenjaku. And this results in the escalation of the Shibuya incident.
@@lucasrodrigo2051 Yeah, you have a point, although I think Hanami may beg to differ lol. Either way an awesome fight scene
I'd argue it's more of a David Vs Goliath fight due to the outcome and because the weaker side employs a lot of strategy to try to beat the stronger side but i digress
I think another perfect example of fly swatting from One Punch Man comes even before Boros: The Deep Sea King fight. He quickly becomes the biggest threat we've seen so far in the show, the stakes are quickly set that he can (and will) destroy every human on that and every other city, we see every character struggle in the show so far fight with their all only to fail, it develops Genos character because he chooses to almost sacrifice himself for a random girl (before this fight, he didn't even care for civilian casualties) and shows Mumen Rider (a "nobody" without power who does as much as he always can and more to help) try to take on Deep Sea while giving a moving speech, only to fail completely afterwards. It's a fly swatting in the villain's favour.
And at the end, when Saitama finally arrives, they pull the rug from under the spectator feet, and the fight's over before Deep Sea King can even land a punch. The fly swatting reverses, and then we see how everyone cheers for Saitama, but dismisses everyone else's sacrifice just because they couldn't defeat the monster. So he discredits himself saying it was because of everyone else and he'll steal the credit. So the glory goes back to those who almost gave their lives for the fight, even if it means he'll be hated by everyone, because he doesn't care about his image, his name or his "brand". He genuinely wants to help not because he'll get something for it, but because he has the power to do so. And this fight shows how far he's wiling to go, sacrificing his public image for the sake of everyone else's
The fight's a double fly swatting that feels interesting, develops two character, leaves you with a better understanding of the protagonist and never overstays it's welcome since it ends in literally a single punch
Personally I don’t think that saitama “doesn’t care” about his image. He cares just a little bit. We see him get frustrated during the meteor event, the hammer head gang jackin his bald look, and caped baldy is not a name he really likes. It’s just that when push comes to shove he prioritizes other people over his own well being.
@@yukii381it would be better to say that it isn't his priority. He cares about it but won't let it get in the way of helping people, good deals, his friends or having fun as a hero.
Mumen Rider is the greatest hero of all. He is just A Guy, no powers, no strength, but he never backs away from heroic ideals, and will absolutely 100% do everything he can to help others.
Battle against the Deep Sea King was such a good arc.
Even Saitama was feeling down because how easily he defeated it, reinforcing his depression, yet he pushed through and made the most heroic decision: give the credit to the rest of the team.
Deep Sea King was never the biggest threat in the show. Carnage Kabuto, Vaccine Man, and Beefcake smash him. You're also wrong that Genos didn't care about civilian casualties, his whole motivation is avenging civilian casualties and when he first showed up he checked for casualties before firing his ultimate attack as Mosquito Girl. Is this even a real post or was it AI generated? Unless you're just THAT bad at analysing media.
"But this is a flyswatting video. And unfortunately for the furious five, they are the flies."
✒️🔥🔥🔥
hahaha
"More like...Furious Flies".
That was goddamn smooth
I feel like there's a handful of good situations for one-at-a-time fights and that fight scene actually makes sense to me. It's a fairly narrow hallway with a bunch of street thugs who probably didn't discuss strategy in advance. A lot of them are wielding weapons they use in wide-swinging arcs, which don't work well in narrow spaces. The dude they're fighting also has a weapon. So, naturally, it takes a second for everyone to get up to speed and they only work well together once or twice. Some of them are more aggressive than others, some hang back because they're worried about catching a stray from a friend, etc. I think it was about as close to realistic as it could get and still have the good guy win.
Agreed, I didnt watch the full fight but it does seem to have that accounted for, even if not 100% realistic.
One at a time is how 1vX are won in real life, because good positionning, friendly fire and untrained cohesiveness allows to force successive 1v1s. Go look at fights, go look at weapon sparring. One at a time is far from an automatic sin.
That being said, what was shown was the most unwinnable situation I have ever seen. All his "good exemples" had the 1 in the 1vX be clearly physically superior in an open field, so with way better odds.
If he ever lost suspension of disbelief, it's not because of one at a time, it's because the guy won at all.
@@glatykoffi6672 Yeah, irl the dude is toast against, like, less than half their number.
I think the better David vs Goliath fights are the ones where David's goal isn't to defeat Goliath, just secure an objective that is within their reach when outright victory would be impossible for them.
Tien from Dragonball Z isn't really allowed to win any fights after Dragonball given the universal power scaling being a joke for humans, but he's able to hold Semiperfect Cell off for a while to allow other characters to escape by using a move that could never kill Cell, but it can push him deeper and deeper into a crater so that he can't get up and pursue his targets. Tien burns through his own life energy, showing he's putting way more into this than Cell is to close the power gap a bit while Cell needs energy to still actually win a fight when he gets out, and Tien's doing it to cause a disruption way above his weight class rather than outright victory. There's no question at any point that Cell could kill Tien, but rather the drama is in whether or not Tien can successfully stall Cell before burning out his own life or slipping up and dying to Cell. The audience doesn't know the outcome the same way they do when weaker protagonist must defeat stronger antagonist for narrative conclusion, as Tien can simply die and the narrative moves on to the obviously stronger characters who are going to be the real battle, but it kept our attention to see how it went down.
thats a good point and i have some examples in mind where victory is not necessarily about defeating the opponent
This was the first thing I thought about when I read the title- instances when the stakes are not tied to who wins the fight, but some other aspect of it. "Sure, character A isn't going to beat character B, but can A keep B distracted long enough for C to escape with the macguffin?"
Actually, that Vader scene from Star Wars: Rogue One is a great example of this.
"I don't have to win, I just have to make you lose"
For David vs Goliath fights, I >BEG OF YOU< to use some Hunter x Hunter fight. Doesn't matter which. It can be Gon vs Genthru, it can be Killua vs the Chimera Ant siblings, it can be Meruem vs Netero, it can be... SO MANY of the fights in that show. That show is the KING of David vs Goliath fights and your video on the topic will NOT be complete without it. It's also the inspiration for JJK.
@@AR15ORIGINAL you can 100% expect a hxh fight 👍
Those fights really just come down to a trap which the other caracther didnt look out for. Its a one move trap.
@Squampopulous let's goooo!!! HxH is the king of David vs Goliath
Jujutsu tech students againtst the forest curse was a fly swatting until the arrival of besto friendos at which point it became a david and goliath battle
Poor david had a real hard time managing the boogie woogie and yuji "Black flash mashinegun" itadori
HunterxHunter also does something interesting for flyswatting, in that is characterizing the loser and failing to use their nen to the fullest, as with hisoka vs kastro or Morelle vs Cheetu.
I love how this happens in Baki
When Baki fights someone, it's like "How is he gonna beat this guy" because Baki usually goes for opponents stronger than him
When Yujiro fights someone, it's still like "How's he gonna beat this guy" because despite winning every fight in like ten seconds, Yujiro never beats his enemies with a normal punch. It's usually something insane like ripping a dudes face off with one hand or pushing them through an entire convenience store
Typical baki stuff
"Alright how far is he taking it this time?"
No way you mention Baki fights as an example of good fights 😭😭
Bro Ryu Kaioh was crazy STILL trying to fight Yujiro after getting his face ripped off. Mans had to get roundhouse kicked in his skinless face and had Retsu begging before he gave up
@@onlysongs1607 I mean, there is a reason why Baki is as popular as it is.
14:27 "I always wonder why people don't use their strongest attack first"
- Sans Tzu, the art of turn-based war
Old Boy: you're missing out that this is happening in a narrow corridor preventing them to all attack at the same time. You also probably got confused by the side view which is only a cinematic view as opposed to what is really happening in the movie and some actors might be stepping a bit out of where they should have stayed when they all attack at the same time. As for 20 guys attacking at the same time, try it with 19 of your friends armed with a baseball bat vs a moving piñata and you'll see that it requires crazy coordination if you don't want to hit each others bats, hands, arms and face. Everyone is hesitating and scared of their teammates who could hit them by accident.
Old boy being mentioned as a bad fight was something i didn't expected at all.
The fight was never intended to be a great fight, where Odesu can show off his skills. The movie is about him and the antagonists crazy revenge fantasy. Odesu just did some work out in a room for years on end without any fighting skills. The Hallway where the fight mentioned takes place in was not only very narrow but also wet, and you can even see the thugs slipping on the floor or missing hits due to space and slipping, same with Odesu.
On top of that, noone won the fight. Odesu managed to get out there alive, since noone really wanted to continue to battle as Odesu is clearly insane, unpredictable and managed to get through the mass of people.
Its one of the best fight scenes in cinema for the whole choreography being in one single shot, where the fight in itself is cohesive (in comparison he could have used the Old Boy Remake fight scene as a bad example instead), and realistically not a single person realistically would have been able to get out of Odesus situation alive
Perfectly said. I also made a comment on this but yours is much more concise. The whole video’s credibility sort of went down for me when somehow one of the greatest 1vX scenes in film history is being slandered like this.
Want an example of an actual dogshit scene? The Oldboy American remake fight scene. That is clearly what the video should have referenced.
I'm glad the algorithm is boosting your videos again man you deserve it
thanks :)
16:04 Thanos doesnt want to kill them, he just wants the time stone. Him sparing them after he gets the stone makes perfect sense
thanos' main goal is to wipe out half the universe, and if i were him i would probably kill the avengers in order to achieve this goal lol
@@Squampopulous they are stranded in Titan without a fighting chance. What need is there to kill them? Thanos couldnt have expected endgame
Thanos is pretty arrogant when you think about. He thought and knew there was no way they’d bounce back from that, and in the end when he died on Titan he didn’t care because he did what he needed to do.
@@alex2005z at risk of sounding stupid (I haven't seen the movie), if you plan on killing half the universe, there's no reason not to start with a couple guys in front of you, right?
@@Squampopulous I think he wanted the stones to decide who lives or dies or something. Plus he is "Honest" about the way he does thing and he does keep deals
An oddly nuanced take on what makes good and bad lopsided fights? Did not know this was the content I craved so badly.
Madara vs Shinobi Alliance is another iconic fly swatting scene. After his like 500 chapter build up
The second meteor 😭😭
Madara VS Shinobi Alliance. *[Upgrade]*
Madara VS 5 Kage. *[Upgrade]*
Madara VS backstabby black old man. *[Go back! Go back!]*
Bro I was looking for this comment
If I was a thug in the hallway fight scene I would avoid attacking when there's others are attacking because I don't wanna get hit
you sound like a bad thug then haha ;)
@@Squampopulous Funny joke, but irl a 1vX is about forcing 1v1s with positionning and friendly fire being a thing. Cohesiveness is nothing innate.
@@SquampopulousI'm not really a good thug if I accidentally sock my homies behind the head, or am I?
@@Squampopulous i think you also forgot that in that scene the fight took place in a tight hallway, making it so that there was very little room for them to attack all at once.
@@glatykoffi6672 yep the key to winning or at least surviving ganking in real life is to force the opponents to a situation that makes their number advantage useless
14:30 In general defense of the "waiting to use your full power" trope, it actually does make realistic sense when you think of it terms of how easy it is to use some of your strength vs all of it. Why drop a nuke on every opponent, when a few punches will do? Once they start showing a chance of actually winning, though, that's when the cost becomes outweighed by the possibility of actually losing the fight, and that's when it makes sense to use your full power.
It also does work for characterisation, specifically to display a character’s pride. A good example of this would be Emiya Shirou vs Gilgamesh in Fate: Unlimited Blade Works, where Gilgamesh explicitly states that he would consider using his full power to be a loss, because that’s the standard he must hold himself to as a king. He loses because he doesn’t use his strongest weapon, but it doesn’t feel unsatisfying at all because it’s entirely realistic for him to do so.
Thanos also works in that context, because he’s an egomaniac and equally has his pride to uphold. He takes his armour off at the beginning of the movie for exactly that reason, he doesn’t believe anything is a threat to him with the stones. And when he does almost lose the gauntlet, he panics and immediately starts spamming his strongest attacks, exactly how you’d expect someone in that situation to do.
5:00 The explaining bit caught my eye because Gege made jjk have a GREAT way around the cliché of characters explaining their techniques for no reason. In jjk universe, you can make a binding vow that can make your technique output stronger if you explain how it works.
The 1v1 nature of the oldboy hallway fight is so easily forgiven due to a couple things.
First: It's in a hallway, that really limits how many people can come for him at once.
Second: As the fight goes on, the thugs are clearly scared and don't want to fight and get their ass kicked.
The main flaw in powerscaling is that most (like 99.9%) of authors don't write fights in accordance to what some nerds on the internet calculated. Storytelling/writing just works differently and the plot and character arcs are in most cases way more important to the outcome of a fight than what the combatans are theoratically capable of.
So it's fine if you just do it for fun but some get really obsessive about it and get outright mad when fights don't play out to their expectatoins.
right
The Oldboy fight also has the added element of being in a hallway, if he fought them on a parking lot he'd definitely lose but the hallway makes it more even.
14:20 Personally, I disagree with this point. I do believe that in most circumstances Thanos should have ,and would have, taken them all out, but there exists a problem. Thanos wants something from them. It isn't unreasonable to believe that Thanos understood the situation with Doctor Strange, and this scene showcases his wisdom. He knows that Doctor Strange has what he wants, and he has to give it up willingly. I believe this is the purpose of his actions. I believe that this scene shows how he is still a creature with fear, but he has ambition and wisdom that allowed him to have made it this far. I think that the writers included this as a way to express him as a very complex character. This is also why he doesn't slaughter everyone after he wins the time stone. The writers wanted to further the plot that Thanos is egotistical yet merciful, and the decision for him to not finish off one of the greatest threats to his conquest expresses that.
this is a good point, but i still think his gauntlet was not used as well as it could have been
Huh… I thought the opposite lol. Thanos is at the end of his lifelong goal and is basking before the final part. I thought one of the writers must’ve been trying to pigeonhole him into the traditional villain role of monologuing or toying with the heros before finishing their evil plan. Where’s the fun in ending his journey with an insta-win fight via the gauntlet? Why not make the ending fight a hard fought, drawn out beat-down? The bards will sing of this tale for eons. Interesting how different a take we can have XD
1) the One Punch Man anime predates the manga. It started as a webcomic.
2) Saitama’s killer move is literally just to take the fight remotely seriously.
A good David V Goliath fight that you should include as an exception is the final fight of Puss in Boots: The Last Wish
I’ve actually been having a lot of trouble with this, thanks. My series that I’m writing has an OP antagonist that is supposed to be a benchmark for the characters to grow to. I wanted to showcase that strength without the butt-whooping being too boring to watch. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately, and this helped me think some things over.
glad it helps!
8:02 Was not expecting that lmaoo
I got coffee up my nose thanks to that.
😂😂
Just because the hallway scene doesn't fit your neat categorization doesn't detract from the magnum opus of cinema that scene was. That scene was pure art.
5:10 Small correction here: This isn't the first time a domain expansion is used in jjk. Sukuna used a domain against the finger bearer a few episodes ago in episode 4. However, this IS the first time that they explain how it works and show that other characters can use it aside from Sukuna. Sukuna's domain expansion was meant to leave the viewer curious as to what it was and how it worked, then it leads to this episode where both Jogo and Gojo use a domain expansion and gojo explains it to both yuji and us, the audience. Haven't watched the rest of the video since I wanted to point this out but it is VERY entertaining and informative as of now! Keep up the good work 👍
Really enjoying the videos, definitely like the perspective you bring to the table
@@BattleGodorMRH glad you like em!
opm doesn't just mock anime, it also pays homage to it, which is why its liked rather than disliked by anime fans imo.
these vids are so entertaining and also informative for creating good characters and fight scenes! thanks much
@@arsileyoutube I’m really glad you enjoy them :)
Not mentioned with the Gojo vs Jogo fight is that exposition fits into the actual mechanics of JJK's power system. The Binding Vow. Giving up something in return for an upgrade in your technique. A sorceror explaining to their opponent about how their power works gives up the element of surprise, allowing the opponent possibly finding a work around but boosting that power's effectiveness in return.
I think the best example of a 1 v. many fly-swatting fight that I can think of is the Warehouse fight in Batman v. Superman.
Regardless of how you feel about Batman’s characterization, the fight excellently shows how it avoids the tired enemies-taking-turns trope.
The most crucial moment of this fight is Batman’s opener as it gives him many advantages against a group:
1) allows him to take the jump on an entire room full of armed men. If you don’t already know, Batman initiated the fight by blowing up the ground beneath the middle of the group. This gives him a unique angle in the fight.
2) some of the men fall through the hole and are instantly taken out of the equation
3) those remaining fall to the ground disoriented
4) this gives Batman enough time to grapple to the ceiling which gives him the vantage point
5) because the thugs never saw him, they still assume he was down there and start firing in the wrong direction
6) Batman’s hidden vantage point gives him the opportunity to use his superior equipment in order to neutralize all of the rifles in the room
7) the device that neutralizes the guns also act as a mini explosive that will take out some of the goons and disorient others
8) after all is said and done, the remaining few are left scattered leaving low chances to jump Batman
Once he finally engages in combat, he still uses his superior speed, skill, and gadgetry to dispatch goons and keep others at bay. At most he gets jumped by 3 people. The only guns that still work are measly side arms that can’t penetrate his cowl and gauntlets.
In Old Boy, they were in a pretty narrow hallway, making coming at him more than one at time harder.
No mention of Saitama's literal failure at literal fly-swatting (Ok, mosquito)?
One thing to make fights more interesting is alternative objectives.
e.g. Gon doesn't need to defeat Hisoka, he just needs to take his badge/land a good punch
A fight can be interesting if each party has a different victory condition.
very true
@@Squampopulous Also, some things you didn't talk about with Boros:
At the end of the first ep saitama has a dream where he fights opponents that can actually fight him, and there's a moment where we see his stylised heartbeat to show his excitement. Just before Boros' final attack, we see a colour-inverted version of the same heartbeat from Boros. Saitama fought Boros like he did in order to give meaning to his life, because he related to his boredom. Their characters have strong parallels, and it's more thematic than most people think.
Speaking of Hunter X Hunter and alternative objectives, the fly swatting fight between Gon and Hanzo is interesting for exactly this reason. Here, the fly actually wins, because he completes his objective, while the fly swatter doesn't.
@@MrSlothJunior But he still gets comprehensively swatted which keeps it from being david v goliath.
@@someguy4405 Yeah, definitely. The fight itself is an overwhelming loss.
“If all you want is to have fun, don’t get any stronger” - Saitama
I’ve been loving your videos I’ve been here for about 3 weeks and you make some of my favourite videos I love watching people analyze movies characters and genres
glad you enjoy!
I would say the big thing worth discussing that didn't show up in this video is the characterization options for the loser of the fight. I don't mean the Naruto-style "let's find out what this guy's deal is in the last 2 seconds before he dies" moment, but rather the flyswattings where characters are left alive. You mention it, kinda, with the joke about "learning more about Quill," but there are a lot of fights - particularly if the one who loses is the protagonist - where a flyswatting is a chance to learn how our character deals with failure, fear, or pain.
Vi and Jayce vs the chemtanks is such a good flyswatting scene because it goes from the enforcers fly swatting the workers, the chemtanks flyswatting the enforcers, and then Vi and Jayce (a character with no fight experience) fly swats the chemtanks, thus showing how insanely overpowering and dangerous Hextech is.
Tbh I think they should’ve used the scene to show Vi in her element while showing Jayce to be stumbling, although being more knowledgeable about his own weapon’s capabilities. Still good fight overall though
Idk if this would count as a toss up or a david-goliath but the Tanjiro vs Rui fight would be great imo. I love when fights show the conviction of the "david" in that tanjiro was willing to decapitate rui even if hed be slashed to ribbons.
If not this fight itd be cool for you to include a fight in which the "david" has overwhelming conviction, that shit gets me every time.
Love the vids man keep it up
thanks for the support, i will definitely consider that fight
The part I liked about Tai-Lung Vs. The F5 is at the very beginning. Tai-Lung is casually lounging about the ropes of the bridge and Tigress has to stumble in order to find her footing (while saying ‘how do you know I’m not the dragon warrior’). It’s a very subtle detail, but it just really contrasts the power of Tai-Lung vs. Tigress.
The start of Deadpool and Wolverine is a good example.
You’re blowing up! Best of luck on the journey man, I’ll be along for the ride!
Garou vs the heroes squad is def is an awesome fly Swatting fight
One of my favorite fly swatting fights is Red vs Blue's Agent texas vs York, Wyoming and Maine. There are quite some interesting details in the fight that show us more about Texas and also York.
It was shown already that Agent Texas was the goat, she already had 2 fly swatting fights where she performed really good, but this time, we get to see that even against top tier agents, she can dispatch them pretty easily (even though York was trying to get Wyoming and Maine to work together and they refused to do so). We see yet again during the bo staff fight round, hand to hand round, and also gun fight round that she mops the floor with them, with most of the time showing off, and i think it is a good detail from the animator that she tries to do these tricks and being cool because some time after that, it'll make sense why she is always depicted like that.
Anyways, we see York more into York's personality as someone that makes jokes and satirizes most situations, no matter how hard they get. We get to a a certain gunfight round where Wyoming and Maine are given live rounds and grenades instead of non-lethal ammo, and they go straight to try to kill Texas despite being in a practice session. York gets fed uo with this situation as he didn't know why was it happening, so he tries to help Texas, even though it was the first time he met her. We see that York tried to do the right thing even if it means that he has to betray his teammates.
On the other hand Texas reacts to this by saying "I don't need your help, never abandon your team", even though she was dealing with 2 top tier agents that were actively trying to kill her, which shows how she values loyalty (despite that she always tries to do things on her own) above everything, or maybe not, but that's a spoiler. And yeah, she rejects York's help and even gets to beat his ass in one of her outburst of rage when she got shot in the shoulder by Wyoming.
At the end of the fight, Maine accidentally throws a grenade to York, he couldn't react to it because he was stunned after getting hit by a huge block of concrete. How he survives the grenade? Texas started shooting York with the non-lethal rounds (which on impact it creates like a pink mass that blocks the movement of the armor, so yeah it was used to reduce the impact York would receive), and this also shows that, despite Texas valuing so much loyalty, she is not a senseless murderer and wants to do the right thing. And these traits have a big impact later on and explains why everything turned out to be the way it was (i forgot to tell that the fight took place way earlier than the current events of the show)
Great videos. Seems like Kill Bill has a tone of excellent examples of these different types of fights. I think it does what you're talking about quite well. I really thought about it thinking about how the sword fight against the gang is an example of somehow having a fight against a huge number not just fall into the 'they line up and fight one at a time' trope.
So for David v. Goliath I might say that The Bride vs. Budd. Maybe it's not enough of a 'fight scene' but we've seen her absolutely mow down everyone in her path, and then she is going after this out of shape has been, who uses his apparent weakness to hit her with a shotgun blast. Very tactical in context.
@@gailonebell2154 going to be watching kill bill soon, thanks for the comment!
Haikyuu has some of the best and most impactful "fights" in any anime. Karasuno vs Shritorizawa is the most obvious example of David vs Goliath.
i have to check that out
I think it might actually be one of the best David vs Goliaths I’ve ever seen, because not only does the Goliath, Ushijima, not feel weaker as the game goes on, he only gets stronger and stronger, to the point where at the end he’s one of the best depictions of a realistic character feeling genuinely superhuman. He outshines the entire rest of the cast by such a huge margin and yet because the context of the “fight” is a team sport, he’s still beatable. And they don’t even take the easy way out of having him be strong but his team be weak, the rest of his team still all feel realistically strong, but it somehow still doesn’t feel unrealistic when they lose. There’s some alchemy there, and I do feel some slight fudging to make sure everything works, but it’s completely unnoticeable unless you overanalyse it to a completely ridiculous degree.
1:07 Who dat?
Anyway, I appreciate this much more nuanced and detailed discussion of powerscaling. The unnecessary hyperbole in the last vid only served to obscure your point, imo, but this is a much clearer explanation of your argument.
Oh yeah, I'm so glad to have been here to witness the start of this channel ❤❤
I'm not the only one, but your viral fight video was the first one of yours I saw. Glad to be here and watching the follow-up. :)
im glad youre here too 😁
I thought this guy has at least 100k subs, keep going that's some high quality content
Maybe one day!
14:43 I think the issue with the move is simply the existence of the move at all. The way Thanos should’ve defeated them was by learning their capabilities and abilities throughout the fight and then adapting and using that knowledge to defeat them, which of course he couldn’t have done immediately when they first jumped him. This, of course, would require complex fight choreography and writing which is beyond most of Marvel. Alternatively, establish some reason why he either couldn’t or was unwilling to use such a powerful move in the first place, for example show him absorbing power from their moves and storing it in the gauntlet, or show that at the start of the fight the Avengers and Guardians are fresh and able to take such a hit and keep fighting, then show them getting tired and then beaten by the same or a similar move later on.
@@EliteVeyron835 both good ideas that would’ve made the fight much better
Another great couple of David v Goliath fights have to be Spider-Man vs The Sinister Six from The Spectacular Spider-Man S1E11 and S2E3. Both of them are quite different and also showcase a great use of strategy against stronger opponents, or characterize the growing effects of the black suit.
Love this series dude, can’t wait for the next videos in this series
Loving the vids keep it up! it helps TONNES!!
14:28, I love that one quote from Sans (Undertale), "huh, always wondered why people never use their strongest attack first".
ive been subscribed since the first video i watch from this channel and I just realised you have less then 100k subs craziest hidden gem ive ever seen. keep up the great work.
welcome back!
You should definitely make a series where you dissect different fight scenes and name what’s good and bad about it‼️‼️
My personal favourite approach is the One Punch Man "matter of course" flyswatting. Character is in the middle of doing something, gets interrupted or attacked, swats away the attacker and goes back to what they were doing without breaking their train of thought. Rather like swatting a literal fly while dining outside and holding a conversation. One might remark on being annoyed at the fly, but it doesn't turn into an actual fight.
Really compelling and well paced video. With that kind of high quality video essays you‘re going far
I think the rooftop fight scene at the end on Hardcore Henry is a great example of a David vs Goliath fight and I'd love to see it covered! The movie as a whole is great and you should 100% give it a watch.
On another note tho, these vids are amazing and suuuper high quality and I'm excited to see more from you! Keep up the good work
This was really great! My only thought is it felt more like you were mainly talking about various fights in the context of your graph. I think you’ve got some great views and insights, would love an even deeper breakdown of things done right vs wrong, and ACTUALLY how a fight of this type can be crafted successfully.
This guy is genuinely creating his own archetypes. You're going to go down in cinema history
I think a major things with Thanos is that he's very steadfast and focused on his self-righteous mission and doesn't view himself as any kind of tyrant or murderer, his moves tend to go just as far as necessary for optimal results, so while it may have been optimal to try and incapacitate everyone from the start he doesn't really behave like the antagonist until people insist on getting in his way. In the end, everyone will face off against chance when he achieves his goal.
A david vs goliath fight I like is Vetto the Despair vs the Black Bulls in Black Clover, the opponent is clearly stronger than everyone, and the one person who could stand a chance in a 1v1 is occupied, so they have to use their abilites together to win
have not yet watched black clover, is it any good?
@@Squampopulous it's one of my favorite anime, it does a lot of common tropes really well
I LOVE SQUAMP ❤
I love the fight scene in Frieren: Beyond Journey's End, Frieren vs Aurora, where there was a hint that Frieren is OP, but you cannot be sure until the reveal of the backstory. The fight scene is, I think, a great example of fly-swatting.
I almost didn't realize this was posted 2 hours ago. I just finished watching the previous video on fights lol
Neat. I've seen most of these, but I like it when people describe things well.
Id love to see an analysis of commander erwin, not just that final fight (ofc that last one) but more importantly to me, the one where they charge titans and erwin gets his arm chomped off, that was the scene that sold me on his character, and his dedication to the cause. That his character is entirely about the cause, about militant action, and about the fierce determination for humanity to survive.
check out my first video!
I think Saitama's fight was interesting because you see that moment where he's caught off guard and you wonder for a moment if he's finally going to be challenged. He keeps hoping to be challenged and so does the audience.
Absolutely love your ideas. Inspiring and I wish I had more anime recs that fit this theme. Keep it up!
I think one of the interesting things about fly swatting with groups, is that it can easily seem like a lack of teamwork if they're getting swatted in their attempt. Imagine the bridge scene in kung fu panda, but after Mantis jolts the bridge, Tai Lung just knocks monkey to the ground, viper can't follow up and has to grab monkey before he falls, Crane gets struck down by a non-distracted Tai Lung, and Tai-Lung returns to beating the crap out of Tigress. Suddenly it becomes another case of fly swatting the group 1 by 1, but it's not because they don't have strategy, it's because their strategy failed against the excessive power of their opponent.
In the Dae-Su VS Thugs example, it looks to me like a scenario where you see multiple people try to hit him at once, but he'll knock one guy into his friends, and then another guy will try to catch them, while Dae-Su is beating up another trying to get around him to surround him. It's a tight space and their strategy involves an initial failure, due to limited space and the excessive power of their opponent. In the end those that got knocked down are slowly making their way past other friends stumbling into them, before they get behind Dae-Su and win by surrounding him.
Then you also have examples like Omni-Man vs the Guardians of the Globe, where Omni-Man specifically breaks their strategies by being significantly stronger than they expected. Every single attempt they make to wound or disorient him is reciprocated with a devastastating blow. Except for the first time Martian Man restrains him, each devastating blow results in one fewer team member, and immediately after the one attack that didn't result in dead team members, the reciprocated blow from the next attack kills two of their members anyway. Every time they try to do some combo attack where one disorients or restrains Omni-Man to create an opening, the person making that opening move is obliterated and the others have to recover and find a new opening with fewer resources, until only War Woman and the Immortal is there, who have no way to stop his incoming attacks and die immediately.
So I think fly-swatting has that very unfortunate effect of often making a team seem incompetent when the issue is that their strategy does not make up for their power difference.
I feel like Fairy Tail would have some David vs Goliath done wrong. Example, when Natsu is that strong where his mere flames can melt stone, where he can evaporate an entire lake, but then next season it feels like his been nerfed. like that OP video game weapon you’ve loved using for its destructive tendencies and now it feels like it’s shooting out Cotten candy.
For a new channel, these videos are incredible. Keep doing what you do man!
as someone trying to get into writing, these videos are really helpful. Keep up the good work!
Regarding the Old Boy hallway fight scene, I think it does it well. for starters, unlike normal fights, this takes place in a small hallway, and as we see a lot of the thugs have sticks and weapons you gotta swing. They need room to do that, and even more to swing and not hit their own allies. That kind of forced positioning and decision making can lead to people standing there and waiting. Second, it's not like a Steven Segal movie where he tirelessly takes out 20 dudes one at a time. The entire time our protag is getting more and more tired. It makes some sense to wait to go in if the guy before you might tire the other guy out.
Lastly, I think this works super well because it's all one single shot with no cuts. Flooding the screen with all the guys at once would cover the fight itself and prevent us from even seeing what's going on, including the knife stab. The whole fight is done with that camera in mind.
Really cool as always.
This kind of videos always makes me think about fight scenes in the fiction pieces i like, and one of the best examples of fly swatting is gotta be most fights in re: zero. They never fail to showcase the characters, even tho you'll always know who will win.
Especially with the new season airing fully packed with fight scenes.
Glad you enjoyed it!
highly underrated channel
Great video! I have one criticism however. The way you described One Punch Man makes it sound like the entire series is about Fly Swatting, but that’s only true when Saitama is on-screen, which isn’t always the case. There are plenty of fights without him, especially in season 2. These fights are still Fly Swatting sometimes, but not always. For example, I can think of 2 instances of World Cups right off the top of my head: the S-class heroes vs the aliens at the end of season 1, and Garou vs the A and B class heroes at the end of season 2, with the latter being one of my favorite fight scenes of all time.
A good David v Goliath fight might be the fight between the space marines and psykers in Astartes.
Another example might be the Kenshin vs Shishio fight from Rurouni Kenshin Part III The Legend Ends (2014) but if that's not your cup of tea there's an excellent toss-up fight between Kenshin and Sojiro in Rurouni Kenshin Part II Kyoto Inferno (2014). Maybe it's something you can touch on in a later video?
i will have to check these out
@@Squampopulous Happy hunting. Love your videos
its really cool to be recommended a channel that is just getting its feet off the ground, keep up the good work, this shit was mad interesting
For the first Thanos fight, I got the impression that these characters (most of whom only met shortly prior) were not good at working together and had to learn by receiving the beat down, which would be a humbling experience to the usually solo superheros.
When critiquing a fight, I wouldn't call out just the writers. A good fight needs the director, fight choreographer, visual effects supervisor, and the write all working together to be the best it can be. Great video!
It should also be noted on the exposition point that in JJK, explaining your abilities straight up empower them. It's a very fun way to get around what would otherwise be very clunky exposition on someone explaing how their power works.
What would have been cool is if Thanos had fought and learned his abilities along the way. It'll be similar to how a Mega Man level is designed where something new is introduced, then something else introduced, and then finally an a-ha moment where Thanos uses both new abilities at once to survive or finish a fight.
A purple fireball later followed by a wave of bats would not only justify but characterize the purple wave attack not appearing earlier.
14:33 Actually... he doesn't really. At this point Thanos is more into getting the stones than he is trying to fight. Partly it's due to overconfidence in their power and partly because he's just not really into it. Since has a good chunk of them he's closer to his goal than he's been in a long time and so he really just wants to get things over with. As a result he doesn't give it his all in the fight because he doesn't think he _needs_ to. Which is something the Avengers play into. Their one-to-one approach in the beginning of the fight is deliberate (as well as the writers making a showcase of their abilities). They knew from the start their their chances of beating Thanos in a straight fight were practically impossible. And Thanos assumed that's what they wanted; having a misplaced confidence in their abilities to take him head on. However that was the ploy. They knew that Thanos didn't really want to fight himself, he was more focused on the Time Stone. So they realized that if they gave just enough of a fight to keep Thanos busy he wouldn't realize their true intent; getting him into the perfect position to get the glove off. They knew they'd only have one shot at this so they had to keep Thanos in the dark. Because the moment they failed Thanos got serious, since he had to keep the glove safe.
The problem is that the plan isn't specifically stated so it comes across as the Avengers fighting stupidly. In reality it was the smartest play they had.
As a lover of the Tai Lung fight scenes, you have made my day.
Your videos are great, love watching them. I highly recommend an anime movie called Sword of the Stranger for the world cup video you plan on making. The final fight is probably my favorite of any movie.
Cool, thanks!
House of Flying Daggers has a great scene of the bad guys actually using their group strategy to overpower the very skilled good guys.
Great video, I really like how you clarified your point about powerscaling, I had the same questions as that commenter did.
About the one-thug-at-a-time problem, I wonder what you think of the Madness Combat animations, I think they do have that problem quite often (the 5.5 episode is most notable for this in my opinion), but the sheer speed of the fight makes it believable most of the time. Also the characterization is quite lackluster? Though it does get better at the newer episodes. Anyway I just can't stop but enjoy the animations and I wanted to hear your opinion on it (even if it's a negative one).
Honestly if anything I was a little disappointed with MC12 because we watched Sanford get completely decimated and exhausted in 11, and now all of a sudden he's mostly back to being a badass killing machine again.
for david vs goliath I must mention the female titan arc from aot.
from finding out shes an abnormal going for kills instead of eating people, knows to protect her nape, able to jump, abilty to focus healing on one eye, hardening, scream to attract titans, and actually a spy among them who is proficient with odm gear & able to titanize a 2nd time. everything is stacked up againist Eren. they know nothing about the opponent while the opponent knows so much about them, yet although they were unable to capture her, Annie, despite having so much advantages, didn't get what she wanted. its peak writing of both strategie and characterization for both sides and showcases the cruelty of war so well
The Bride vs. The Crazy 88 (from Kill Bill Vol. 1) needed to be mentioned here. It offers great characterization, mood-setting, and exposition. There was even a miniboss and boss fight. Tarantino basically checked every single box of every single trope related to this kind of fight.
Is fun to watch that other video blow up and now you're playing off that success to make a series delving into the details. Like watching a flower bloom. 😊
I think I saw one of your videos some weeks ago and didn't feel like it added anything to the scenes you commented but now your analyses are really pertinent and for any beginner writer are strong advice, so keep up the good work and keep improving mate you're doing tremendous work!
I think that the worst "one thug at a time" flyswatting fight scenes are those where the weaker side is clearly made to be uncoordinated and clumsy just to lose. But when the stronger side wins through sheer skill and power, I don’t mind if their abilities are overpowered. It still makes for an entertaining fight.