UPDATE: Welp, enough people complained and Stage Manager is being brought to A12X and A12Z models. External monitor support has been delayed for these variants... but I digress. I took Apple's word for it and maybe I shouldn't have! I will cover this later (probably in October). Stay tuned :)
I literally JUST got an iPad mini 6. I was really excited for stage manager until I heard it was M1 only. The iPad mini 6 isn't even a year old, and it's already missing features. This stinks.
I feel you dude, although I'm not gonna lie... Stage Manger is cramped on the 11 inch. I don't think it'd be the best experience on device. But if you could do it externally that would be SO dope :)
(Edit: Oh i prefer puplic meetups stores, near cameras, etc) Yo try doing wat I plan to do. Which is sell it on Facebook/offerup. See on facebook see people selling up to 500. Then look for an iPad pro 5th gen on them and see if u can find one. Had got my iPad pro 4th gen for 650 of course checked if everything was working and was. The guy had got the 5th gen and was selling old one. BUT ALWAYS READ THE DESCRIPTION!!! and try to verify the specs, along with asking for serial # and checking if its blacklisted(stolen), or under warranty( if it is how long), etc.
Stage manager being M1 exclusive is egregious and unacceptable. They’re not convincing anyone that it isn’t doable on the A12. Way to alienate everyone who bought a $1K+ setups for iPad pros last year.
And if they did it would suck and you would be here complaining about performance. Maybe you should consider paying for the hardware that supports the software costs that Apple incurs developing things like Stage Manager.
Bought a 12.9 inch 2020 iPad Pro last year with the Magic Keyboard. So expensive, especially as I’m a student. But I thought “buy once cry once” apple are talking about making the iPad more like a laptop so this will start to get all the cool new features in the years to come. It’s lasted one year before it’s now missing features. Crazy.
Sorry Noah, but this is an extremely apologetic video. If an old Intel Macbook Air can run stage manager no issues, you are gonna tell me that the A12Z iPad Pro, which is the same chip the transition kits to Apple silicon had, can’t run it? I don’t think so. This is an artificial limitation made on purpose to push people to upgrade, and I hope the strategy fails. Apple, you want people to upgrade? Then give us users what we’ve been asking for years. We want finder, we want pro apps, we want real multitasking, etc.
Stage Manager is not just about external display support or windowed apps, it is really about the ability to run 8 apps at once where iPads cannot do that currently. The MB Air has always been able to run 8 apps at once because it has 8GB of RAM and supports swap, the 2018 iPad Pro only has 4GB of RAM and no swap so comapring the two is not really useful as they are clearly totally different.
@@andyH_England apple is notorious for limiting features anyways. they could easily nerf older ipads. If they can run split screen w a floating app, they could give the same limitation to stage manager for older ipads
Like I said, this is partly a money grab. I'm not stupid enough to think that Apple of all companies has zero capability of optimizing this experience for older gen iPads. But I do believe that if there goal is to offer "Pro" users the ability to run "Pro" apps all at once, and not only that somehow scale apps natively to resolutions completely foreign to iPad apps up until now... more memory if required. 2018-2020 models offer 4-8gb max. 2021 models offer 8-16gb + 128gb of swap. That's a HUGE difference. I think comparing iPadOS with macOS is a mistake, they do not wish to conflate the two whatsoever. So call me an apologist, it's fine. I'm not happy with all of this either, but I'm just reporting what make sense to me.
From now on, it seems the non M1 iPad users are going down the hill extremely fast, some devices that are not even a year old are already being left out with features, this year was Stage Manager, but what about next years? More and more features exclusive to the M1/2 iPads? Yeah, I honestly don’t know how to feel about that but it’s not good. Disappointed because Apple has always been great at long support with devices, but this is not supporting their A-series chip devices that are not even a year old and then just give them a weather app and nothing else. Major letdown
They keep supporting the non Mx ipads, only with a more limited featureset. Do you want ipados development come to a halt because of having to support older cpu’s? Unfortunately progress always means older products will get less features
@@pietdegeling4696 I’d understand if they were old enough, this are chips that came out some even 10 months ago, that’s NOT old enough to start unsupporting features, the Mac Mini dev kit runs Mac OS Ventura with fully Stage Manager on it while having a A12Z chip same as some iPads. The chips are powerful enough to be able to get this features, it was a business decision and a greedy one, iPads with not even 1 year of life getting already unsupported is not progress
@@stevee1989 as i said, the non Mx iPads will be supported some more years, like Apple always does. My guess is, we will get a new Os for M1 iPads, and a continuation of ipados for all other models. I agree it seems a bit greedy, but it is also - my opinion - the only possible way Apple can go with this, how sad it perhaps is for non-M1 iPad owners. And to be honest, if you bought a non-M1 iPad 10 months ago, you could have guessed this could be happening.
I respect your feelings, but: 1. Apple have been selling the idea that the iPad can replace my laptop well before 2020. And I bought the iPad Pro 11” 2020 for that vision; which, even with all of the IOS 16 updates, is not there yet. 2. 4GB of RAM may not be ideal, but it is not little. If you have ever swiped horizontally on the home bar and see the app that the app you just switched to resume where you left it, that is because it is saved in RAM. My iPad Pro 2020 can definitely do it up at least 3-4 apps; which is all I needed. All I wanted now is a quick way to switch between those 4; without having to swiping the home bar multiple times. Therefore, I feel angry and cheated. I will be getting rid of my iPad and find something else to use, I am tired of waiting for what Apple has been promising and I will not pay them just for incremental steps.
The apps you use are not pro apps and what people on YT have been asking for is to use pro apps like Procreate and LumaFusion that can easily eat up 5GB of RAm on projects. Apple has to build a feature for the worst case scenario, they cannot assume that people will just use a few light-weight apps on it. If a 4GB iPad Pro was doing serious multitasking on Stage Manager it would be killing apps left, right and centre and you would be losing all your work. I am not sure the storage on non-M1 ipads are anywhere near as good as on M1 iPads as the latter are built to handle heavy memory swapping where as teh ones in iPhones are def not.
You're totally valid. I don't blame you for hopping to Mac or an alternative, and I wish they would've at least let users scale iPadOS as it us full screen. I also wish us creators collectively did a better job telling people the 2020 models weren't any more powerful than the 2018 models. I tried to, but who knows, I'm not totally free and clear or misguiding people. But just like you... I had no idea this was gonna happen. Nor do I enjoy the outcome. But I also wasn't happy that my M1 iPad Pro didn't do anything that much different from a previous gen model. Now we have our answer, but it isn't without its consequences.
@@CaptureCat88 You best believe when iPadOS 15 was nothing special, I wasn't thinking "oh god bless Apple, they do everything right." I was pissed. I felt cheated, I felt like my career was gonna be over because my channel is so iPad oriented. But hey, NOW they're finally doing something interesting with the iPad. Not all iPads which sucks... but with their flagship ones. And they're probably going to pass down these "bougie" features as the years go on, along with higher end hardware. Regardless, they aren't perfect. They're slow to change and have given me one hell of a ride too. So we're more on the same page than you think. You're at Apple's mercy to make your products work the way you want; I'm at their mercy because my whole job is dependent on how interesting their products are ahaha. It's wack, but I love what I do regardless 😂❤️
@@NoahHerman I feel that, but it sucks knowing all tech RUclipsrs were initially inspired by Apple circa 2000's. We are officially in the post-Jobs/Forstall/Ive era and it shows. Honestly the new MacBooks are all so ugly with the notch and bubble design. Huge regression. Same for iMac and honestly studio display is way thicker at the side than my Dell. This is NOT the same company we all got into ten or more years ago. So sad to see how it has fallen. And feel bad for RUclipsrs that still have to act excited about these products for their job. It was way easier a decade ago.
I would have been really unhappy if my iPad Pro wasn’t M1 so will not use stage manager. I don’t know why people like to make excuses for apple with the “I think’ comments when they are not sure why. My old 2017 Samsung S8 still runs Dex very well with more advanced multi tasking and monitor support. Folks always say apple support devices for years but always ignore or make excuses for things like this. How is a 2020 ipad that old? Well until apple tells us the real reason for excluding these iPads I don’t think we should make up excuses for them. If ram was a concern, they could do have designed the window management better not exclude the next lower generation ipad.
Can your S8 run Procreate with seven layers and also run Adobe Rush and other apps, 8 all at the same time wilst pushing a 6K display? Of course, not, Stage Manager is a pro feature to maximise the utility of the M1. Your S8 is fine running a browser and Twitter and maybe a couple more lightweight apps but it is nowhere near what the M1 iPad could handle so the comparison is very poor.
@@andyH_England 😂😂😂another apple apologists. If you don’t understand why I mentioned the S8 I guess I can’t help you.. note it all works on lower res screens not just 6k.
I have a 2020 iPad Pro 12.9” with 6GB of RAM that I was told it was “future proofed it for at least 4-6 years” as I was debating whether to wait and see what the next one would be…and of course the Developers have already revealed there is literally a toggle in iPadOS16 that would allow Stage Manager to work on the 12x and 12z…Apple has lied saying it requires the hardware of the M1. I get that companies lie for sales all the time but I thought Apple might be above that, especially for $1000 tablet that people have been paying a premium for with the expectation that “it will be get the software to match the hardware soon…” and disappointed year after year that this didnt happen, now Apple is claiming the M1 is required when it simply isnt true. I sense a Class Action lawsuit coming on…
As a software engineer, toggles are common practice, especially in betas. It allows QA engineers to turn on and off features they want to test or not get in the way of their testing. Those toggles won’t be there when it leaves beta. Seriously, people who know nothing about how software is written are saying some of the most outrageous things. Just because a toggle exists doesn’t mean it works on all iPads. All it means is that QA people can turn on and off features without having to get another software build.
I understand what a toggle is, and did not think it was user accessible, my point was Apple claiming Stage Manager *required* an M1 when others have said it works fine on the 12z and even the 12x (if the 1TB version with 6GB). And as the 12z with 16GB of RAM can run full MacOS its with all of its multiple windows and features as demonstrated with the Transition kit, it has been revealed by engineers like yourself that Stage Manager certainly could run on the 12z even with just the lowly 6GB these models shipped with. I dont know what outrageous things others that know nothing about how software is written are saying. I get Apple wants to drive sales, but considering how many of us purchased these iPAD PROS and waited…and waited, and waited some more for truly “Pro” features and software, it just feels like a low kick that such a useful feature is being arbitrarily excluded when it absolutely could run. You gave me an idea tho - MAKE the toggle user accessible, and if performance is truly abysmal, then we’d know first hand and wouldnt blame Apple. Maybe they can do this for Beta 2 for good will! Heck, I would maybe even buy an M1 iPAD then! Except if they did that, we might all find Stage Manager would work fine and we’d stick with our perfectly capable 2020 iPAD Pros and finally be able to use more Pro-like features. Let the user decide Apple instead of now being even MORE wary of buying the latest and greatest only to have the next cool feature left out because someone decided that is the best way to drive sales. There is no technical or performance reason the feature isnt enabled, and yet Apple implies it requires the power of the M1 which just isnt true according to various engineers like yourself. And yes, that makes me annoyed that Apple would pull such a stunt, *and* misrepresent why they are doing it. How about innovate with some cool features that truly will require new hardware and have us upgrade for those reasons? You know, a landscape mounted selfie cam so meetings are always showing me looking to the side? Or the oft rumoured OLED+ display? A new system interface dock port and new Keyboard that truly make the iPAD Pro as close to a touch screen Mac as we’re likely to get in the next few years? Instead Apple seems to be trying to force loyal users who already purchased the most expensive model with the implied promise of years and years of upgrades ahead of us because the hardware was so ridiculously overpowered that it would take at least that long for the software to catch up. I’ve always been a loyal Apple FanBoy, but this is just rotten to the core.
@@NewtonDKC Toggles are there for testing purposes, not for users. Also the A12Z is not capable of running macOS. The dev kit was a cobbled together collection of parts off-the-shelf with support chips that don't exist on any iPad. Apple didn't have an M1 to use in the Dev kit so they took what they could get their hands on and kluged it to make it work. The dev kit is not proof the A12Z can run macOS on its own and therefore not proof it can run virtual memory required for Stage Manager. I know people desperately want this feature, but from all I can find, it really isn't possible. People make the mistake of thinking a non-shipping system that ran macOS really badly that had to be returned in order to destroy them is an example of a polished system that could elegantly run macOS. No, it isn't. The A12Z wasn't the only chip on the motherboard, and that is the mistake people make. Intel CPU's can't run Windows either by itself, requiring a ton of support chips, referred to as its chipset. Apple simulated a chipset by putting in other chips to make up for the A12Z's shortcomings.
I’m sad about stage manager too, but I mean I’ve been loving my iPad Pro for the last 2 years , the fact It won’t get stage manager doesn’t mean iPad Pro 2020 will be obsolete … it’s just a fancy feature that honestly people doesn’t need that much cause if they really needed desktop layout they would buy a MacBook instead
I feel that insufficient memory isn’t a an excuse for stage manager not to work on the 2020 (and previous) iPad Pro models. Apple literally announced a feature to solve the limited memory which is virtual memory swap which would definitely work with older iPads as their SSD speeds are almost always the same. Not only that but the Mac mini dev kit that is powered by the A12Z can run macOS Ventura, so surely there aren’t any excuses.
I bought that pro last year but return for issues on screen and so much glitches anyways glad I did but now I got a new regular one and this comes out w the m1 requirement that’s not fair they could limit to 2/3 max apps for that new multitasking but I guess it comes to make a difference and apple making customers spend more $ … cause that iPad was a monster such a scam
Memory swap kills ssds, now imagine a older iPad with smaller ssd that’s been used for years and already half way or more through its tbw. I don’t want memory swap. I liked just being able to use my iPad with worrying about killing it. Guess when peoples iPads only last year or two it’ll improve iPad sales for apple though.
Well, the A12z in the dev kits were modified to have more RAM, so the facts do seem to line up a little bit. Memory swap sounds like a magic bullet, but SSDs aren’t really made to be used as RAM very frequently Unlike RAM, SSDs are optimized for long-term storage, and the mechanisms they use to store bits even when the device is powered off inevitably wear down over time Using a drive as RAM means reading and writing more data to it at a much faster pace, which will wear it down much more frequently. This is worst on smaller, older, non-optimized drives. Like the ones in older iPads. 32 gb and 64gb drives will not fare well under fast swapping? And a device with 4gb RAM is going to need a lot more swapping Look, I’m just as mad as anyone. Apple should’ve planned better. How can the iPad Mini, my favorite iPad, ever hope to handle the thermals of an M1-style chip? Do I just never get external display support, on the iPad that most benefits from an external display? But virtual memory swap is not the answer to old chip
Did those kits not have 16GB of RAM, which is a massive difference to 4-6GB, a world’s difference. Also, the storage on the M1 is different to the ones in the A-chips as the M-chips storage are built to handle memory swap, whereas in iPhone’s there is no need for such enterprise storage. I feel that people do not get the limitations of the A-chip iPads and although my 2018 Pro misses out, I totally 100% understand that it would have been totally rubbish using Stage Manager unless I hardly used any apps.
Everyone seems to forget old intel chips like the core 2 duo with 4 GB of ram used to run macOS with its complicated preemptive multitasking, virtual memory swapping and so on. How is it the case that those chips ran macOS and supported windowing, but an a12z with more cores and graphics performance and even more ram can’t support stage manager, even if in a less fully featured form. So instead of up to 8 simultaneous apps max as on iPad Pro with m1, what about 6 or 4 simultaneous apps with iPad 2020 pro? There are no excuses. Apple is trying to increase iPad sales, and cutting off the 2020 iPad Pro from stage manager is one way to incentivize more sales of m1 or m2 hardware.
Usually I won’t feel unhappy or angry for Apple doing this kind of thing, but not this time. I bought iPad Pro 2020 and try to use it as a laptop replacement, not working very well for me but I still think upcoming updates should bring more new features for that. Stage manger should be able to change this but limiting to M1 iPad only is really frustrating. They just want to force people to buy new iPad and leaving the “old” iPad Pro users on their own, especially even can’t use the external display support. I should have ignored all the ideas of a “Pro-using iPad” and just bought iPad 8th gen or MacBook Air. This is my first iPad Pro, probably would be the last one. I am tired expecting improvement from iPad OS, just got the cheapest one if I even need another one in future.
Feeling the same dude. We have an iPad pro, which isn’t really “pro”. Like… I have a 512GB iPad pro which doesn’t support stage manager… seriously Apple. Stop robbing people. It’s not like we have the money to buy an iPad “pro” every year.
Ya'll are both so right. It's not fair... I think they could've at least given iPad Pro 2018-2020 users some about of external display support. But I do stand by my assertion (and Apple's) that there's just insufficient memory with the older models. A12X/Z models only have a max of like 4-8gb of ram... and then M1 models have 8-16gb + 128gb of swap. Huge huge difference!
@@NoahHerman Well, yeah... but still, I don't think iPad OS really needs more than 4gb of ram to open multiple windows of iOS apps. I mean come on... it's not like you're opening Final cut pro and playing a game on steam at the same time. They're just iOS apps. To me it's like them saying: ''buy the new iPad''.
I’ve already seen a few other videos explaining how stage manager could work fine if they just straight up limit the amount of workspaces/apps able to run at once based on the ram. They chose to lock this feature. It’s not something useful enough for me to upgrade for anyway, but the way they’ve been approaching iPadOS updates each year just makes me more and more lean toward eventually replacing it with a Surface.
This is for pro work and 4GB iPad Pros are just not going to cut it unless you are only using lightweight apps that take up low memory. Everyone says Pro is Pro and that it is for pro apps so that argument that if you restrict a pro device from doing pro stuff sorts out Stage Manager is very hypocritical, and I suspect loads more people would moan about that as well.
@@linhlevan8087 Yes, I get where you are coming from, it does sound ridiculous and it is def disappointing. Hopefully Apple does a half-way house so we at least get something? We will see.
Apple bragged for decades about being better than Android fragmentation and have separated Intel/m1 macs with important features and now with A-series vs M-series iPad. This is incredibly sad and frustrating bc I was 5 mins away from upgrading my wife's iPad air 3 to the ipad air 4 ... but it's a shame.
Let’s just simply not upgrade and keep our old iPads. I felt really frustrated at first with my iPad Pro 2018 but i though I’ve been coping well with it so ill stick with it, not going to let them force me to uprade
I have a 2020 Ipad pro 12.9 version its a shame that it does not have stage manager, if they don’t allow this function and after this, I will sell my Ipad and buy an Surface pro instead. This is disappointing I paid $1500 for my ipad, keyboard and pen and they can’t do it.
They could limit split screen or background apps based on the model. Just limit the window count on stage manager, to even half i guess as long as there's external monitor support 🤷♂️
They could do that, really complicate things, so 4GB iPads only have 2 apps and 6GB have 3 apps, but we are getting complicated and making the feature very messy. My assumption is that Apple will allow Stage Manager Lite, where they fork the ability to use an external display but keep the older multi-tasking. That is an easy fix.
@@andyH_England that'd work too as long as there's a proper external monitor support, simply because it's an essential function. I'm not even interested in the multiple resizeable window multitasking (?). I'd get surface pro if I wanted that.
I guess there will be two “versions” of iPadOS starting from iPadOS 16…There will be a watered down version for older iPads with A-series chips and a full iPadOS experience for iPads with M-series chips. iPads with A-series chips will eventually be phased out. That really makes the budget iPad or refurbished iPads less attractive because only M1 or maybe M2 powered iPads will have all the features available. Really curious about what they will do to the budget iPad this year tho.
I think that the standard iPad and Mini will retain the A range of processors while the iPhone use them. There will always be an audience for the cheaper lower end devices. The only thing that has muddied the water is placing the M1 in the most recent Air. Perhaps they might rebrand that as a semi-pro device, and maybe add an A processor version of the Air at a lower price point. The M1 is then the Pro chip, and the latest A is for iPhones and those who want a larger screen without paying a Pro price.
@@blowfishes i think they did it because they know if they don’t now the next air won’t have m2 and the ipad pro vice versa but why release something if it’s going to get a better chip the next year that changes so many things as we’ve seen, i like to stick to the rule if you need something get it devices and things will always be obsolete whether it be the next day next week next year etc
@@blowfishes i think they did it because they know if they don’t now the next air won’t have m2 and the ipad pro vice versa but why release something if it’s going to get a better chip the next year that changes so many things as we’ve seen, i like to stick to the rule if you need something get it devices and things will always be obsolete whether it be the next day next week next year etc
A second class release for the majority of iPad users. Why can’t we still not reduce the size of the dock or change its orientation on screen as well as disabling the slide bar?
Your explanation about 4 or 6gb of ram being too little for stage manager doesn’t make sense. Come on man I think it’s an offense for tech savvy people and non-tech savvy people. Samsung pulled off Dex with the same ram and less powerful chips yet they allow more apps and a beautiful experience and you’re telling me a12x and A12z can’t use stage manager because of this? Really? No offense but I don’t agree with your explanation I think it all comes down to the money I am so done with apple.
I respect your take but I also think you underestimate how much ram it takes to properly pull off an experience like this. You also fail to remember how long Apple usually supports older devices. Yes they want to make money, but they also want to deliver a solid experience. Stage Manger is a lot more complicated than we realize… it’s barely working properly on my M1 iPad Pro as we speak!
@@NoahHerman well a weather app does not justify an updated for the 2020 iPad Pro and by no means 6gb of ram could not handle stage manager and deliver a great experience or full scale external monitor support. It’s a slap in the face from apple to all its consumers.
They're basically separating the lineup as "iPad tablet" and "iPad laptop". You can see them doing that with the iPad Air that came with 64GB or 256GB storage option. It sucks that the previous A-series iPads that could handle Stage Manager perfectly are left out, but with iPadOS's ability to suspend apps unlike macOS, they could've squeezed them in. And for those who say that old Intel Macs can run Stage Manager perfectly, my 2020 Intel MacBook Pro sometimes struggles with it.
Remember that the iPad Pro 2018 has 4GB of ram until you get the 1TB option which has 6GB of ram. That is only 2gb off so it can clearly run stage manager even if it is limited to 2 or 3 apps. And all the iPad Pros 2020 has 6GB of ram so THAT is enough to run stage manager. Apple also talked about the M1’s even if you have the 8gb model it will use storage so it basically will have so much ram. Due to the fact that M1 is based off of A12X/A12Z and it even looks and has the same dimensions. Apple can clearly let the storage to ram option (memory swap) for older iPad pros and we technically would have so much more ram
Also watch maxtechs new video about it, he showed tweets that someone found an legacy option to enable stage manger on older ipads in the ipados 16 code
The storage in the M1 -v- the A-chips are different so I am not sure they would handlw heavy swaps. If you had just 4GB of RAM (my 2018 Pro) then I would be swapping out literally every time I moved to another app as Procreate takes 3GB of RAM. That would destroy my 128GB storage in no time and as only 30GB is free, then the destruction would be fast. I expect the storage in the M1 iPads are of higher spec, built to task heavy swapping whereas the storage in non-M1 iPads will be less resiliant. Apple would end up with devices crahing and burning and get even worse PR.
let them give everyone access to the stage manager and see how we like it. i bought my ipad 3 months before the m1 came out. and they didn’t drop the price or warned us. they happily took our money and kept quiet
I mean it's not like they can just reveal what they're working on haha. But I get it... it's an unfortunate sequence of events. I'm just thankful I was encouraging people to buy 2018 models, because the 2020 really wasn't any better.
Please stop with the hardware limitations garbage talk.... There are $200 chrome books that can do that with 1/10th of the hardware. Pure 100% cash grab by Apple.
literally just bought an iPad Air 4 and I can’t sue it with new update. Barely adds anything to my iPad not even the lockscreen customization like on iOS
I am somehow not convinced that it is only due to the architecture. I am more inclined to believe it is just a way to force people to upgrade, something that I will definitely not do. I bought the 2020 iPad Pro expecting that it would be upgraded in features with its software upgrade life cycle... Only to see 2 years down the road that being a top-of-the-line product category, my iPad will not be getting the full experience from an operating system upgrade. I will stick with my iPad Pro 2020 for as long as it lasts me and hopefully it will be a long time.
Again, it's a memory issue, not necessarily horse-power/processor type. But I guess my point about A12X/Z vs M1 is that Apple would be less inclined to optimizing an intensive experience for a nearly 4 year old processor.
@@NoahHerman sure, yes... but my 4-year-old Samsung Galaxy Note 9 does DeX with full external monitor support and handles multiple applications on screen with window resizing, etc... all on 6GB of RAM + the CPU. The iPad Pro 2020, a 2-year-old top-tier product with a superior chip architecture and the same 6GB of RAM can't provide a similar experience? I call B.S. on that all day, any day! I hope my iPad lasts me for 8 years because I'm not seeing purchasing another for a long while. After all, maybe after 2 years, those M1 iPads might not be considered "adequate" by Apple then.
@@stockwa I'm with you on the "they could've done something for the older models" argument. A12X/Z is definitely powerful enough to push some kind of alternate UI/external display... but they have a vision, and they want the experience to suit "Pro users," whatever that means lol. So I can see why they've prioritize M1 models. The experience right now is so broken bro... I'm honestly not surprised. They have a LOT of work to do before they release the pubic beta.
@@NoahHerman I do get your point, though. Fortunately, I am quite happy with the way my iPad works... Wonderful for the uses i have for it... even if it is limited in many other ways as you and many others have pointed out. I am just not going to spend any money upgrading from this device, one that the company does no longer consider "Pro" after 2 years on the market, at least as far as software upgrades is concerned.
even as an M1 user, I feel Apple should honestly discontinue the iPad Pro line. they barely put in effort for iPad. what's the point for those who buy a Pro iPad and they can't even get the new lock screen from iOS 16 and stage manager. meanwhile, old ass Samsung phones can be used for Samsung Dex. but, what do I know.
I disagree, but the progress has been slow. I blame COVID, a lot of these improvements probably should've come last year. But I wouldn't make the mistake of comparing Apple's interface and goals with Stage Manger to DeX, Windows or any Android experience.
@@NoahHerman maybe what I said above was a bit too much. I just feel Apple, as good as they can be, they take so long to roll out such basic features. for example, haptic feedback when typing on iPhones finally implemented in the default keyboard. after all these years, I thought iPhone always had it. guess not lol
I think you're forgetting about the point that Apple's OWN Arm Transition Kit used an A12z in a Mac Mini chassis that ran full MacOS Big Sur AND supported swap memory which now suddenly is an M1 only feature despite the A12z being fully capable of running a desktop operating system.
The kit had 16GB of RAM so this argument seems to be trotted out but is an unreasonable comparison as non-M1 iPads do not have the same robust storage that is built for swap, or 16GB of RAM, and especially as it has been mentioned by Apple and others that RAM is what matters more than CPU or GPU (though M1 will obviously speed things up).
@@NoahHerman they could’ve limited the apps on background if it were a ram problem (say, instead of 8 apps running simultaneously, run 4 on non M1 iPads). A12z is not M1 level chip, sure, but it’s still one of the best and most powerful chips out there especially on mobile devices, on Samsung a lot of devices that aren’t even 25% as powerful as the iPads can run things like Dex very well. This is not a performance issue, is just apple not wanting to support it to leave out the A-series chips as quickly as possible to fully move to M chips
Have an iPad mini 6 and I’m not too disappointed about missing out on stage manager, but at least give us the full external display scaling support….don’t see how memory swap would be an issue with that
I'd say let the older iPads have stage manager because it's really unfair for the people that spend A LOT of money on an iPad pro/air and not get the iPadOS features. If Apple is being money hungry like they always are, they should let the older iPads have stage manager even though there maybe some lag, then it's up to the people if they want to get a faster (non-lag) or keep their iPads and deal with lag. If that happens people should have a feature of how many apps they want to have on the screen that may reduce lag.
Bro! Im so mad… it makes no sense for a device like the air 4 which isn’t even 2 years old to not get stage manager or the new features! I get they don’t have memory swap but they can still put a more limited version of stage manager on the A14 and A13 iPads or at least give them monitor support to some extent!
They just can limit the amount of apps you can open on stage manager in non M1 iPads. They did something similar with the split view on iPads with only 2gb of RAM in the past. So I guess they just want you to upgrade to the newer models. No excuses.
I think it’s completely bs that this is hardware related, a Mac Mini with an iPad Processor ran macOS just find, stage manager isn’t that intensive, this is simply just a bad call from apple
Those were supplied with 16GB of RAM to developers, not 4GB that are in the 2018 iPads. How can they be directly compared when Apple has said the limitation is directly due to lack of RAM. Why are not people understanding this, it is not the CPU or GPU, it is RAM, and mainly the amount, and also the ability to memory swap which non-M1 iPads are not as robust at.
They limiting stage manager and the simple feature of UI scaling to M1 iPad Pros and software gating the 2020 iPad Pro is why I’m never spending $800+ for an iPad again they’re just not worth it, when the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros came out they were marketed as a “computer replacement” but now we see that they really aren’t more powerful than a 2015/2016 MacBook Pro as they run full macOS perfectly fine while the 2020 iPad Pro is basically obsolete.
They are still not ready for what iPad users want and need. Let's face it, and I am gonna be very upfront, we have been bamboozled by Apple placing the M1 processor into a device that really was not ready with a proper OS. And no, external screens only work for a few set of screens. I have some LG 24 inch monitors that do not work, this can change in the future but as of now iPadOS16 still has done nothing for the iPadPro 11". Stage manager? Pfffff give me a break, that is not multitasking, that is just a task-swapper where only apps in the foreground are capable of running, oh right we can merge and drag and drop.... Well woooohooooo 12 months have gone by. I have given up hope, I am going to use the iPad for what it is: A fine device to watch movies on.
The iPad is a tablet at its core. If you want laptop functionality then you really are in the wrong place. As for Stage Manager, it is the same as DeX in all but design, DeX being a direct copy of a Windows UI. I am not really sure what else you want? Developers have to code for iPads so if they do not think it is economically viable they wont. Of course, iPads have more pro apps than Android so if you do not like iAPdOS then Android will suck more? Just buy a cheap iPad for tablet work and get a laptop for the stuff you need.
@@andyH_England I have been using devices for decades. So don't tell me that Stage Manager is the same as DeX, it is dumbing down the experience. Developers are not coding for iPads, they are coding for IOS devices because that was Apple's big push three years ago. What I want is the Apple is going to get serious about the iPad and the operating system they want to use on it. Because "what is a computer" will become very much the new slogan. It is not a computer and yet shares computer like functions. It does not do a great job at that. This is, of course, my opinion and I differ from yours - by the way Android does not suck, but the ecosystem with Apple is much better.
@@type45tomcat21 I am well aware. But Stage Manager is not macOS; it’s an entirely different experience that is all about giving the user the most performance, not just in basic web apps.
@@NoahHerman thank you for letting me know Apple's statement, but it means nothing. A single "Sorry" would means more than all those letters. Apple has been promoting iPad Pro as something can replace laptop, with 4 or 6 GB of RAM onboard. Now you are telling me your iPad Pro can't be laptop replacement because it did not have enough RAM, something decided by Apple. Your decision, we suffer, no regret, no apology, not even a single sorry. Thanks Apple.
I bought the iPad Pro 2020 because I wanted to use it for many years and thought with the Pro line I’m safe for the next few years‘ updates and new functions. Now I feel like I wasted my money. I feel fooled and betrayed.
This is *not* a good step in the right direction, this makes it harder for people who don’t have the budget for the iPad Pro 2021 or later or M1 Air to do everything that we need. I personally use my iPad 10.2 (granted, 8th Gen, not 9th) as my main laptop because I don’t have the budget to get an expensive laptop. I know so many people who use the 10.2 or mini and especially who recently got them.
Yeah they are giving you a reason to go Pro... but over time I think these bougie features will be passed down. One day the baseline iPad will pack the M1 when we're on M3 or something haha
Everyone seems to forget old intel chips like the core 2 duo with 4 GB of ram used to run macOS with its complicated preemptive multitasking, virtual memory swapping and so on. How is it the case that those chips ran macOS and supported windowing, but an a12z with more cores and graphics performance and even more ram can’t support stage manager, even if in a less fully featured form. So instead of up to 8 simultaneous apps max as on iPad Pro with m1, what about 6 or 4 simultaneous apps with iPad 2020 pro? There are no excuses. Apple is trying to increase iPad sales, and cutting off the 2020 iPad Pro from stage manager is one way to incentivize more sales of m1 or m2 hardware.
How do you limit that? I suspect Apple has tried all the options and may have found a way but is still working on it for later release, or they may have tested alternatives and found that it is to unstable?
We can also likely count on this new UI capability weighing enough on the processor to drive us to M2, M3 and later processors over a very short period of time. Building in obsolescence is becoming a more rapidly-accelerating trend with the nearly forced move to M1 for features of the OS. They won't build it to be light because that would enable the M1 powered IPads to last due to their incredible power. I predict, hopefully wrongly, that these new features will put a significant strain on the processor intentionally to force moves to newer iPads in 1-3 years.
The thing is, that I personally don’t need a Mac because I can do everything on a iPad. Earlier this year I bought a 2020 iPad Pro and so far it did what I needed it to do. Yet as my workflow became a little more demanding I felt that the 2020 model startet to break down, for example I write something in Word and have another app in splitview. Then I switch to fullscreen safari to research something and when I come back to Word it had to reload the app. For me, stage manager and external monitor support would have been a relief. I will probably buy the M1 iPad Pro because like I said, I don’t need a Mac to do what I do.
I have a normal iPad 7th Generation I downloaded the beta 2 public version on it. And I have noticed no differences other then the font on my Lock Screen is bolder
I’m scratching my head with this stage manager functionality as Apple just cannot seem to get this right on iPadOS. Apple is clearly trying to add features to iPad which respond to the criticism regarding the lack of versatility of the system. Very average multitasking and the awful external display support are two very good examples. However at the same time, they are trying not to cannibalise the macOS products and so they are still severely limiting iPad OS in many ways. I have a strong suspicion that this will just end up in a complete dogs dinner of a mess. This stage manager is so convoluted and confusing. I cannot arrange the windows how I want. Only how Apple wants me too. Infuriating. The iPad Pro simply isn’t worth the financial outlay for something which still probably won’t be exactly what customers are seeking. Time will tell. I have no intention of buying another iPad Pro. Still running the 2020 model. A MacBook Air and the classic budget iPad for pen support is the way to go for most people.
Hey sir, sorry but what do u mean by “budget iPad for pen support”? Like, can u use the IPad as a digitalizing table which I can plug to use together with the MacBook?
I agree. Weaker Mac OS, Chrome OS, Linux, Windows, and Android tablets implement external monitor support better. Apple's excuse of limiting iPad A series in order for customers to upgrade to M1/M2 iPads!
i only recently got a 2020 pro as well :/ there's no way i could afford an m1 ipad, i opted to get an m1 macbook anyway- for audio production. ipad OS isn't in the same ecosystem as mac, so i wouldn't be able to use my plugins. and 16gb ram is likely the minimum i'd need...
I was really excited for this feature but seeing that it’s only available for iPad’s with M1 in it after I purchases a 2020 pro, im very disappointed but not surprised. I want to hope that Apple will eventually bring it to all their iPads like how Samsung brought Dex to all their galaxy tablets. But honestly I’m not too sure. The only thing holding me back from possibly going the galaxy tab route for my next tablet update is app system.
MacBook Air with 4 GB of RAM and an intel processor supports full MacOS and yet iPad Pro 2020 with a more modern processor can’t do something more simple because reasons. They’re losing me with the iPad at this point, cause it’s not a big update at all if you don’t have M1.
A mB Air with 4GB would be awful running eight apps at a time with heavy pro apps like Procreate using at least 3GB. It could use swap but that would slow it down but not a very good example.
@@andyH_England 110% Agree with you there. That is why you scale it down to just 4 Apps in non M1 devices, they did this with iPads below 3GB of RAM, you couldn’t interact with more than 2 apps at once but on 4GB models you could interact with an extra slide over app (3 apps at once). So less capable iPads still got split view, just not it’s full capability. Something similar can be done on A12X/Z iPads, instead of 8 apps, just 4. Plus the MacBook Air I mentioned it’s archaic, what I meant is that the iPad does less while been more advanced, which is counterintuitive. But it’s just my opinion.
Honestly I wish Apple would just admit that they're doing this limitation on older devices to encourage people to upgrade. I just saw Renee Richie's video and I find it honestly insulting to the intelligence of Apple consumers that they're trying to act that a basic desktop mode with a resizable windows cannot be accomplished with the second most powerful chip ever put on a tablet. Even though a Galaxy S9 from 2017 or something and the MacBook with an Intel chip from 2017 can do it just fine. Hell, a $200 Chromebook with 4 GB of RAM has no problem supporting external monitor with basically unlimited resizable windows.
Sooooo I have a 2021 iPad Pro, but not the M1. While I understand that I can't use Stage Manager, will I at least be able to use an external display without the stupid black bars on the sides?
Noah. Have you seen the video from Max Tech? There is no reason Apple couldn't at least allow propper external monitor support without the black bars on each side of the screen. They could have at least given 2018 and 2020 ipad pro owners that !!
You're right, external display support shouldn't be an issue at all. But the Stage Manager interface apparently is hard to push... but I agree. Apple could've at least allowed 2018 and 2020 users to connect externally, turn the iPad display off and let people use a scaled up version of the preexisting iPadOS interface. Maybe no stage manager and split screen at most. But trust me when I say... Stage Manager is so buggy right now. It makes sense that they would only optimize an experience specifically for the M1 iPad Pros. Regardless, I wish they could've done more for older gen users :(
Thanks for explaining in some detail how these new updates may be intended to be appeal to customers, sometimes reviewers can gloss over that too much and it starts seeming like they are just dragging the iPad lines for not also being able to make espresso or something. Sounds like if the iPad can hold its own in terms of a benchmark task like video editing, that'll change the landscape substantially. I don't mind at all that my 9th gen basic iPad is essentially just for working with ProCreate and as a functional accessibility device for my visual impairment, but if iPad OS is able to perform some truly beefy tasks, that's a big deal.
so my ipad air4th gen (a14 bionic chip version)not gonna get it? 😱 this is not far since I bought my ipad air jzt a year ago and I don’t get stage manager? Then what is the point for updating to iPad os 16? If only the best features are for pro models only then why do they have other non pro iPads?
I’m so salty right now I could be a f***ing sea creature. I was upgrading this year anyway from my 2018 iPad Pro, however it still annoys me that features only support M1. Besides, if I get the M2 Air, that will replace a 2013 MacBook Air and my iPad, so……….. Thx Noah 🙏🏻 🙂
Go for it!! Very safe upgrade. But if you want to replace your iPad Pro 2018 with an Air 5th gen or a used Pro 11" 3rd gen... it wouldn't be a bad idea either :)
I’m still rocking the iPad 2018 11in and it works fantastically. I guess I just won’t have stage manager, cuz they are bugging if I’m gonna drop bank just for a faster chip.
I didn't like how the video worked around this stage manager issue. It compares to old iPad pro, but you have new models like iPad air 4, iPad mini 6 and iPad 9 that is going to be harmed with that decision, the video don't even mention this.
If you connect an external display to M1 iPad Pro via usb-c then connect to that iPad Pro wirelessly via sidecar from a Mac mini or m1 MacBook Air will you now 3 or potentially 4 displays?
I can't stand it anymore. All those tech bloggers without a clue believing this bullshit. Guys... my 2012 MacBook pro with 4gb of ram can run a full blown osx with more than 8 apps. why? because virtual memory swap is a technology as old as Linux. of course your old iPad is capable of running stage manager. it's also capable of running macos and we already saw it in the dev kit. the m1 in reality is a rebranded A chip. they are just lying to bump up the ipad sales. the iPad is crippled down since years in terms of its software. it was never intended to be good. it was intended to develop chips to be put in a Mac, which they finally did. the iPad is just as good as it needs to be to sell you a secondary device.
Last year everyone was complaining that the M1 Ipads were overpowered, too fast and not taking advantage of the M1 processor. Apple listened and delivered. Now people are complaining that these features are not compatible with non-M1 processors. You can’t have it both ways!
Maybe it’s just me, but stage manager doesn’t seem all that useful. I have the 11” iPad Pro M1 and I don’t really see myself using this feature much. My screen is already small and stage manager just seems to leave a lot of dead/unused space. Additionally, not being able to drag apps from the iPad to the extended display is a huge miss in my opinion. Also, I personally think this feature should be iPad “pro” exclusive, not M1 exclusive. If ram really is the issue here, apple could just limit the number of apps you can have open based on ram usage.
It needs to be improved. It's also hella buggy... but I'm remaining optimistic! :) And yeah... you think they could've had a compromise with the older gen models... but considering how buggy it is right now it makes sense that they're optimizing for a more capable device.
That’s not the only problem, the fact that Apple did this to their relatively new product is what pissed off the public. I don’t even care if Stage Manager finally come to my 9th gen as the demo shows it really sucks, it’s just the fact that Apple even consider doing this to their barely old product indicates bleak future for rest of us.
i have an ipad 8thgen with 256gb and ios16 so far feels so lacklustre. i would have wanted something and we have nothing as regular ipad users. it sucks and feels very offensive that anyone other than professionals have been left out
Memory Swap/Virtual Memory is more than possible on both older iPads and non M1 Macs. All it is at this point is excuses for Apple, since in a virtual machine on an unsupported Mac, Stage Manager worked fine with only 4GB of RAM available.
iPhone memory which is used in iPads was not built for memory swap, where as M1 storage is more robust and designed to cope with high swapping numbers. Failed storage would be bad for Apple and consumers so Apple has to be sensible.
@@andyH_England I'm with Andy on this one... if older gen models used swap it could ruin those SSDs and completely f*** up peoples personal data. But maybe I'm/he's wrong.
disgusting attempt to get all ipad pro users with a pre 2021M1 model to upgrade to the m1 ipad pro is truly unaware i’d rather move back to buying a macbooks then fork out the same ammounts of money for stage manager which let’s face is a pathetic attempt to be more macos like soo i’d rather just go back to Macos on a macbook Air
I love your open-minded explanation as to why stage manager isn't going to be available in older iPads. Thanks so much for your video. I have an iPad mini 6 and a 2018 iPad Pro and I was so excited about learning about stage manager in WWDC I started counting down the days of the release date to the public until I found out its not available for the current iPads that I own. It sucks so bad but it would be a huge great investment for me to update to a M1 iPad since I use iPads as my main device than my MacBook Air M1 2020 device.Being an iPad lover I think stage manger seems like a better fit for iPads than MacBooks because of their software. it just seems out of place in MacBooks..... I'm going to be giving away my MacBook to my cousin who recently graduated high school and is heading into University. He'll have more use with it than me.
Every excuse you use on this video to justify features being M1 exclusive don't have ANY SENSE. "Four year old architecture" You repeat that a lot like if it is a bad thing when there is really no real difference with the gen before the M1 Pro. Hardware limitations? I'm sure you are joking when i see more than 6 years old potato Android tablets using REAL multitasking with maybe 1/10 of the power of M1 at best and 4 gb of RAM or even less. Are you implying ipados is not efficient than Android anymore then? The real reason is really simple. Apple wants you to buy M1 with the "PRO" feature of multitasking because they want to make money. I don't know why "tech" tubers are trying to make excuses for Apple when it is obvious what is happening.
I get what you're saying but I don't think that's Apple's intention, nor do I think Stage Manager is comparable to what Microsoft or Google are going for
@@NoahHerman it’s more fancy that’s for sure. But is it more functional? How do you think? IMO simple desktop environment would do. For sure i’ll be using it on my M1 device, but still it’s a bummer they will not backport this to non M machines.
@@qwer55555555 A bummer indeed, I don't disagree with you there. And I don't know quite yet, I think I'll have a more complete opinion on the matter once I use a non-broken version with the public beta :)
What new things does the stage manager bring that couldn’t be done using split screen and slide over where three apps could be used at once with one app in slide over or maybe even 4 apps with a video in PIP. In Stage manager, you cannot even use 3 apps without them overlapping. Only use case that I can think of is when the iPad is connected to an external display. And only M1 iPads support Stage Manager! I’m an owner of the M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch but that doesn’t stop the iPadOS flaws. And I don’t blame apple too because they don’t want to merge mac and iPads.
So my iMac or even MacBook Air with out fan with only 8gigs can juggle a plethora of applications but my iPad Pro although not with the exact same chip but pretty well equipped one and 6gigs of ram can on do 2 things at once that bs that clearly apple limiting a product early in its life if a 2016/2017 Mac book can run stage manager then my iPad should have no problem
Last year I bought the iPad 9 and was excited as it was my first iPad. I don’t get why stage manager is only M1 excl. For real iPadOS 16 is only a big update for M1 iPads and not for the others. They shld have named this iPadOS 16 M1. Very disappointed. 😪
I think it’s obvious at this point that Apple isn’t going to unchain the potential of the iPad any time soon. A fully optimized iPadOS would pretty much kill my need for a Mac.
iPad Pro can be configured with more storage, more memory and of course a bigger, better and higher refresh rate display. However you're right, performance wise there is not much of a difference. iPad Pro M2 will make buying a Pro model make sense though... iPad Air won't get M2 for a while, after iPad Pro at the very least.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
UPDATE: Welp, enough people complained and Stage Manager is being brought to A12X and A12Z models. External monitor support has been delayed for these variants... but I digress. I took Apple's word for it and maybe I shouldn't have! I will cover this later (probably in October). Stay tuned :)
nice ❤ thank you
So do you think it is not only delayd but it will NOT come to the M1 iPads?
I literally JUST got an iPad mini 6. I was really excited for stage manager until I heard it was M1 only. The iPad mini 6 isn't even a year old, and it's already missing features. This stinks.
I feel you dude, although I'm not gonna lie... Stage Manger is cramped on the 11 inch. I don't think it'd be the best experience on device. But if you could do it externally that would be SO dope :)
Better off with memory swap destroying yiur iPad
(Edit: Oh i prefer puplic meetups stores, near cameras, etc)
Yo try doing wat I plan to do. Which is sell it on Facebook/offerup. See on facebook see people selling up to 500. Then look for an iPad pro 5th gen on them and see if u can find one. Had got my iPad pro 4th gen for 650 of course checked if everything was working and was. The guy had got the 5th gen and was selling old one. BUT ALWAYS READ THE DESCRIPTION!!! and try to verify the specs, along with asking for serial # and checking if its blacklisted(stolen), or under warranty( if it is how long), etc.
Already found a couple iPad pros 5th gens that I'm interested in just waiting for payday.
@@sly2792004 you can swap memory ipad air 4 256gb version btw
Stage manager being M1 exclusive is egregious and unacceptable. They’re not convincing anyone that it isn’t doable on the A12. Way to alienate everyone who bought a $1K+ setups for iPad pros last year.
Exactly.. My tab S8 runs dex just fine with a processor thats In the A12/ A13 range as far as power
100%
I got the iPad Air 256 gb 🥲
And if they did it would suck and you would be here complaining about performance. Maybe you should consider paying for the hardware that supports the software costs that Apple incurs developing things like Stage Manager.
@@kruegdude there are toggles in the os to enable stage manager in non m1 ipads lmao
Bought a 12.9 inch 2020 iPad Pro last year with the Magic Keyboard. So expensive, especially as I’m a student. But I thought “buy once cry once” apple are talking about making the iPad more like a laptop so this will start to get all the cool new features in the years to come. It’s lasted one year before it’s now missing features. Crazy.
I have a ipad pro 11inch too, knowing stage manager will not come to it piss me off 😞
Guys, it might come in later betas
@@anamethatlastsforeverinternet I really doubt it. Apple is not going back on this.
@@vominhsang000 If you have the m1 version you will
Sorry Noah, but this is an extremely apologetic video. If an old Intel Macbook Air can run stage manager no issues, you are gonna tell me that the A12Z iPad Pro, which is the same chip the transition kits to Apple silicon had, can’t run it? I don’t think so. This is an artificial limitation made on purpose to push people to upgrade, and I hope the strategy fails. Apple, you want people to upgrade? Then give us users what we’ve been asking for years. We want finder, we want pro apps, we want real multitasking, etc.
Stage Manager is not just about external display support or windowed apps, it is really about the ability to run 8 apps at once where iPads cannot do that currently. The MB Air has always been able to run 8 apps at once because it has 8GB of RAM and supports swap, the 2018 iPad Pro only has 4GB of RAM and no swap so comapring the two is not really useful as they are clearly totally different.
Tell ‘em!
@@andyH_England apple is notorious for limiting features anyways. they could easily nerf older ipads. If they can run split screen w a floating app, they could give the same limitation to stage manager for older ipads
@@localblackman427 but that’s exactly what is available, a watered down multitasking experience with split screen and slide over
Like I said, this is partly a money grab. I'm not stupid enough to think that Apple of all companies has zero capability of optimizing this experience for older gen iPads. But I do believe that if there goal is to offer "Pro" users the ability to run "Pro" apps all at once, and not only that somehow scale apps natively to resolutions completely foreign to iPad apps up until now... more memory if required. 2018-2020 models offer 4-8gb max. 2021 models offer 8-16gb + 128gb of swap. That's a HUGE difference. I think comparing iPadOS with macOS is a mistake, they do not wish to conflate the two whatsoever.
So call me an apologist, it's fine. I'm not happy with all of this either, but I'm just reporting what make sense to me.
From now on, it seems the non M1 iPad users are going down the hill extremely fast, some devices that are not even a year old are already being left out with features, this year was Stage Manager, but what about next years? More and more features exclusive to the M1/2 iPads? Yeah, I honestly don’t know how to feel about that but it’s not good. Disappointed because Apple has always been great at long support with devices, but this is not supporting their A-series chip devices that are not even a year old and then just give them a weather app and nothing else. Major letdown
They keep supporting the non Mx ipads, only with a more limited featureset. Do you want ipados development come to a halt because of having to support older cpu’s? Unfortunately progress always means older products will get less features
@@pietdegeling4696 I’d understand if they were old enough, this are chips that came out some even 10 months ago, that’s NOT old enough to start unsupporting features, the Mac Mini dev kit runs Mac OS Ventura with fully Stage Manager on it while having a A12Z chip same as some iPads. The chips are powerful enough to be able to get this features, it was a business decision and a greedy one, iPads with not even 1 year of life getting already unsupported is not progress
@@stevee1989 as i said, the non Mx iPads will be supported some more years, like Apple always does. My guess is, we will get a new Os for M1 iPads, and a continuation of ipados for all other models. I agree it seems a bit greedy, but it is also - my opinion - the only possible way Apple can go with this, how sad it perhaps is for non-M1 iPad owners.
And to be honest, if you bought a non-M1 iPad 10 months ago, you could have guessed this could be happening.
I respect your feelings, but:
1. Apple have been selling the idea that the iPad can replace my laptop well before 2020. And I bought the iPad Pro 11” 2020 for that vision; which, even with all of the IOS 16 updates, is not there yet.
2. 4GB of RAM may not be ideal, but it is not little. If you have ever swiped horizontally on the home bar and see the app that the app you just switched to resume where you left it, that is because it is saved in RAM. My iPad Pro 2020 can definitely do it up at least 3-4 apps; which is all I needed. All I wanted now is a quick way to switch between those 4; without having to swiping the home bar multiple times.
Therefore, I feel angry and cheated. I will be getting rid of my iPad and find something else to use, I am tired of waiting for what Apple has been promising and I will not pay them just for incremental steps.
The apps you use are not pro apps and what people on YT have been asking for is to use pro apps like Procreate and LumaFusion that can easily eat up 5GB of RAm on projects. Apple has to build a feature for the worst case scenario, they cannot assume that people will just use a few light-weight apps on it. If a 4GB iPad Pro was doing serious multitasking on Stage Manager it would be killing apps left, right and centre and you would be losing all your work. I am not sure the storage on non-M1 ipads are anywhere near as good as on M1 iPads as the latter are built to handle heavy memory swapping where as teh ones in iPhones are def not.
You're totally valid. I don't blame you for hopping to Mac or an alternative, and I wish they would've at least let users scale iPadOS as it us full screen. I also wish us creators collectively did a better job telling people the 2020 models weren't any more powerful than the 2018 models. I tried to, but who knows, I'm not totally free and clear or misguiding people. But just like you... I had no idea this was gonna happen. Nor do I enjoy the outcome. But I also wasn't happy that my M1 iPad Pro didn't do anything that much different from a previous gen model. Now we have our answer, but it isn't without its consequences.
Thank you! Too many RUclipsrs that are Apple sheep try to justify everything they do. So annoying.
@@CaptureCat88 You best believe when iPadOS 15 was nothing special, I wasn't thinking "oh god bless Apple, they do everything right." I was pissed. I felt cheated, I felt like my career was gonna be over because my channel is so iPad oriented. But hey, NOW they're finally doing something interesting with the iPad. Not all iPads which sucks... but with their flagship ones. And they're probably going to pass down these "bougie" features as the years go on, along with higher end hardware. Regardless, they aren't perfect. They're slow to change and have given me one hell of a ride too. So we're more on the same page than you think. You're at Apple's mercy to make your products work the way you want; I'm at their mercy because my whole job is dependent on how interesting their products are ahaha. It's wack, but I love what I do regardless 😂❤️
@@NoahHerman I feel that, but it sucks knowing all tech RUclipsrs were initially inspired by Apple circa 2000's. We are officially in the post-Jobs/Forstall/Ive era and it shows. Honestly the new MacBooks are all so ugly with the notch and bubble design. Huge regression. Same for iMac and honestly studio display is way thicker at the side than my Dell. This is NOT the same company we all got into ten or more years ago. So sad to see how it has fallen. And feel bad for RUclipsrs that still have to act excited about these products for their job. It was way easier a decade ago.
I would have been really unhappy if my iPad Pro wasn’t M1 so will not use stage manager. I don’t know why people like to make excuses for apple with the “I think’ comments when they are not sure why. My old 2017 Samsung S8 still runs Dex very well with more advanced multi tasking and monitor support. Folks always say apple support devices for years but always ignore or make excuses for things like this. How is a 2020 ipad that old? Well until apple tells us the real reason for excluding these iPads I don’t think we should make up excuses for them. If ram was a concern, they could do have designed the window management better not exclude the next lower generation ipad.
Can your S8 run Procreate with seven layers and also run Adobe Rush and other apps, 8 all at the same time wilst pushing a 6K display? Of course, not, Stage Manager is a pro feature to maximise the utility of the M1. Your S8 is fine running a browser and Twitter and maybe a couple more lightweight apps but it is nowhere near what the M1 iPad could handle so the comparison is very poor.
@@andyH_England 😂😂😂another apple apologists. If you don’t understand why I mentioned the S8 I guess I can’t help you.. note it all works on lower res screens not just 6k.
Or simply only allow 4 or 6 apps at a time if ram really is a limiting factor.
Get good
@@andyH_England please shut up android manufacturers have done better
I have a 2020 iPad Pro 12.9” with 6GB of RAM that I was told it was “future proofed it for at least 4-6 years” as I was debating whether to wait and see what the next one would be…and of course the Developers have already revealed there is literally a toggle in iPadOS16 that would allow Stage Manager to work on the 12x and 12z…Apple has lied saying it requires the hardware of the M1. I get that companies lie for sales all the time but I thought Apple might be above that, especially for $1000 tablet that people have been paying a premium for with the expectation that “it will be get the software to match the hardware soon…” and disappointed year after year that this didnt happen, now Apple is claiming the M1 is required when it simply isnt true. I sense a Class Action lawsuit coming on…
As a software engineer, toggles are common practice, especially in betas. It allows QA engineers to turn on and off features they want to test or not get in the way of their testing. Those toggles won’t be there when it leaves beta. Seriously, people who know nothing about how software is written are saying some of the most outrageous things. Just because a toggle exists doesn’t mean it works on all iPads. All it means is that QA people can turn on and off features without having to get another software build.
I understand what a toggle is, and did not think it was user accessible, my point was Apple claiming Stage Manager *required* an M1 when others have said it works fine on the 12z and even the 12x (if the 1TB version with 6GB). And as the 12z with 16GB of RAM can run full MacOS its with all of its multiple windows and features as demonstrated with the Transition kit, it has been revealed by engineers like yourself that Stage Manager certainly could run on the 12z even with just the lowly 6GB these models shipped with. I dont know what outrageous things others that know nothing about how software is written are saying. I get Apple wants to drive sales, but considering how many of us purchased these iPAD PROS and waited…and waited, and waited some more for truly “Pro” features and software, it just feels like a low kick that such a useful feature is being arbitrarily excluded when it absolutely could run. You gave me an idea tho - MAKE the toggle user accessible, and if performance is truly abysmal, then we’d know first hand and wouldnt blame Apple. Maybe they can do this for Beta 2 for good will! Heck, I would maybe even buy an M1 iPAD then! Except if they did that, we might all find Stage Manager would work fine and we’d stick with our perfectly capable 2020 iPAD Pros and finally be able to use more Pro-like features.
Let the user decide Apple instead of now being even MORE wary of buying the latest and greatest only to have the next cool feature left out because someone decided that is the best way to drive sales. There is no technical or performance reason the feature isnt enabled, and yet Apple implies it requires the power of the M1 which just isnt true according to various engineers like yourself. And yes, that makes me annoyed that Apple would pull such a stunt, *and* misrepresent why they are doing it. How about innovate with some cool features that truly will require new hardware and have us upgrade for those reasons? You know, a landscape mounted selfie cam so meetings are always showing me looking to the side? Or the oft rumoured OLED+ display? A new system interface dock port and new Keyboard that truly make the iPAD Pro as close to a touch screen Mac as we’re likely to get in the next few years? Instead Apple seems to be trying to force loyal users who already purchased the most expensive model with the implied promise of years and years of upgrades ahead of us because the hardware was so ridiculously overpowered that it would take at least that long for the software to catch up. I’ve always been a loyal Apple FanBoy, but this is just rotten to the core.
@@NewtonDKC Toggles are there for testing purposes, not for users. Also the A12Z is not capable of running macOS. The dev kit was a cobbled together collection of parts off-the-shelf with support chips that don't exist on any iPad. Apple didn't have an M1 to use in the Dev kit so they took what they could get their hands on and kluged it to make it work.
The dev kit is not proof the A12Z can run macOS on its own and therefore not proof it can run virtual memory required for Stage Manager. I know people desperately want this feature, but from all I can find, it really isn't possible. People make the mistake of thinking a non-shipping system that ran macOS really badly that had to be returned in order to destroy them is an example of a polished system that could elegantly run macOS. No, it isn't. The A12Z wasn't the only chip on the motherboard, and that is the mistake people make. Intel CPU's can't run Windows either by itself, requiring a ton of support chips, referred to as its chipset. Apple simulated a chipset by putting in other chips to make up for the A12Z's shortcomings.
I’m sad about stage manager too, but I mean I’ve been loving my iPad Pro for the last 2 years , the fact It won’t get stage manager doesn’t mean iPad Pro 2020 will be obsolete … it’s just a fancy feature that honestly people doesn’t need that much cause if they really needed desktop layout they would buy a MacBook instead
I feel that insufficient memory isn’t a an excuse for stage manager not to work on the 2020 (and previous) iPad Pro models. Apple literally announced a feature to solve the limited memory which is virtual memory swap which would definitely work with older iPads as their SSD speeds are almost always the same. Not only that but the Mac mini dev kit that is powered by the A12Z can run macOS Ventura, so surely there aren’t any excuses.
I bought that pro last year but return for issues on screen and so much glitches anyways glad I did but now I got a new regular one and this comes out w the m1 requirement that’s not fair they could limit to 2/3 max apps for that new multitasking but I guess it comes to make a difference and apple making customers spend more $ … cause that iPad was a monster such a scam
Memory swap kills ssds, now imagine a older iPad with smaller ssd that’s been used for years and already half way or more through its tbw. I don’t want memory swap. I liked just being able to use my iPad with worrying about killing it. Guess when peoples iPads only last year or two it’ll improve iPad sales for apple though.
Well, the A12z in the dev kits were modified to have more RAM, so the facts do seem to line up a little bit. Memory swap sounds like a magic bullet, but SSDs aren’t really made to be used as RAM very frequently
Unlike RAM, SSDs are optimized for long-term storage, and the mechanisms they use to store bits even when the device is powered off inevitably wear down over time
Using a drive as RAM means reading and writing more data to it at a much faster pace, which will wear it down much more frequently. This is worst on smaller, older, non-optimized drives. Like the ones in older iPads. 32 gb and 64gb drives will not fare well under fast swapping? And a device with 4gb RAM is going to need a lot more swapping
Look, I’m just as mad as anyone. Apple should’ve planned better. How can the iPad Mini, my favorite iPad, ever hope to handle the thermals of an M1-style chip? Do I just never get external display support, on the iPad that most benefits from an external display? But virtual memory swap is not the answer to old chip
Did those kits not have 16GB of RAM, which is a massive difference to 4-6GB, a world’s difference. Also, the storage on the M1 is different to the ones in the A-chips as the M-chips storage are built to handle memory swap, whereas in iPhone’s there is no need for such enterprise storage. I feel that people do not get the limitations of the A-chip iPads and although my 2018 Pro misses out, I totally 100% understand that it would have been totally rubbish using Stage Manager unless I hardly used any apps.
Everyone seems to forget old intel chips like the core 2 duo with 4 GB of ram used to run macOS with its complicated preemptive multitasking, virtual memory swapping and so on. How is it the case that those chips ran macOS and supported windowing, but an a12z with more cores and graphics performance and even more ram can’t support stage manager, even if in a less fully featured form.
So instead of up to 8 simultaneous apps max as on iPad Pro with m1, what about 6 or 4 simultaneous apps with iPad 2020 pro? There are no excuses. Apple is trying to increase iPad sales, and cutting off the 2020 iPad Pro from stage manager is one way to incentivize more sales of m1 or m2 hardware.
Usually I won’t feel unhappy or angry for Apple doing this kind of thing, but not this time.
I bought iPad Pro 2020 and try to use it as a laptop replacement, not working very well for me but I still think upcoming updates should bring more new features for that. Stage manger should be able to change this but limiting to M1 iPad only is really frustrating. They just want to force people to buy new iPad and leaving the “old” iPad Pro users on their own, especially even can’t use the external display support. I should have ignored all the ideas of a “Pro-using iPad” and just bought iPad 8th gen or MacBook Air.
This is my first iPad Pro, probably would be the last one. I am tired expecting improvement from iPad OS, just got the cheapest one if I even need another one in future.
Feeling the same dude. We have an iPad pro, which isn’t really “pro”. Like… I have a 512GB iPad pro which doesn’t support stage manager… seriously Apple. Stop robbing people. It’s not like we have the money to buy an iPad “pro” every year.
Ya'll are both so right. It's not fair... I think they could've at least given iPad Pro 2018-2020 users some about of external display support. But I do stand by my assertion (and Apple's) that there's just insufficient memory with the older models. A12X/Z models only have a max of like 4-8gb of ram... and then M1 models have 8-16gb + 128gb of swap. Huge huge difference!
@@NoahHerman Well, yeah... but still, I don't think iPad OS really needs more than 4gb of ram to open multiple windows of iOS apps. I mean come on... it's not like you're opening Final cut pro and playing a game on steam at the same time. They're just iOS apps. To me it's like them saying: ''buy the new iPad''.
No reason for anyone to get an iPad. They are so restricted.
@@Bardockvision and iPad 8th gen with 3GB of ram can handle this with flying colours
I’ve already seen a few other videos explaining how stage manager could work fine if they just straight up limit the amount of workspaces/apps able to run at once based on the ram. They chose to lock this feature. It’s not something useful enough for me to upgrade for anyway, but the way they’ve been approaching iPadOS updates each year just makes me more and more lean toward eventually replacing it with a Surface.
This is for pro work and 4GB iPad Pros are just not going to cut it unless you are only using lightweight apps that take up low memory. Everyone says Pro is Pro and that it is for pro apps so that argument that if you restrict a pro device from doing pro stuff sorts out Stage Manager is very hypocritical, and I suspect loads more people would moan about that as well.
@@andyH_England iPad Pro 2020 is much more worse than iPad Air 2022
The word PRO lasts only 2 years. Haha 🤣🤣🤣
@@linhlevan8087 Yes, I get where you are coming from, it does sound ridiculous and it is def disappointing. Hopefully Apple does a half-way house so we at least get something? We will see.
Surfaces are heinous
“replacing it with a Surface” LOL
Apple bragged for decades about being better than Android fragmentation and have separated Intel/m1 macs with important features and now with A-series vs M-series iPad. This is incredibly sad and frustrating bc I was 5 mins away from upgrading my wife's iPad air 3 to the ipad air 4 ... but it's a shame.
Let’s just simply not upgrade and keep our old iPads. I felt really frustrated at first with my iPad Pro 2018 but i though I’ve been coping well with it so ill stick with it, not going to let them force me to uprade
At least you didn't buy a 2020 model... I hopefully did my best to tell people the performance was the same.
I will never upgrade
I decided to just get a 14” MacBook Pro and forget about iPadOS getting better, I lost every bit of hope I had
I have a 2020 Ipad pro 12.9 version its a shame that it does not have stage manager, if they don’t allow this function and after this, I will sell my Ipad and buy an Surface pro instead. This is disappointing I paid $1500 for my ipad, keyboard and pen and they can’t do it.
They could limit split screen or background apps based on the model. Just limit the window count on stage manager, to even half i guess as long as there's external monitor support 🤷♂️
They could do that, really complicate things, so 4GB iPads only have 2 apps and 6GB have 3 apps, but we are getting complicated and making the feature very messy. My assumption is that Apple will allow Stage Manager Lite, where they fork the ability to use an external display but keep the older multi-tasking. That is an easy fix.
@@andyH_England that'd work too as long as there's a proper external monitor support, simply because it's an essential function. I'm not even interested in the multiple resizeable window multitasking (?). I'd get surface pro if I wanted that.
I guess there will be two “versions” of iPadOS starting from iPadOS 16…There will be a watered down version for older iPads with A-series chips and a full iPadOS experience for iPads with M-series chips. iPads with A-series chips will eventually be phased out. That really makes the budget iPad or refurbished iPads less attractive because only M1 or maybe M2 powered iPads will have all the features available. Really curious about what they will do to the budget iPad this year tho.
they gonna give it a14 or a15 and call it a day.
I think that the standard iPad and Mini will retain the A range of processors while the iPhone use them. There will always be an audience for the cheaper lower end devices. The only thing that has muddied the water is placing the M1 in the most recent Air. Perhaps they might rebrand that as a semi-pro device, and maybe add an A processor version of the Air at a lower price point. The M1 is then the Pro chip, and the latest A is for iPhones and those who want a larger screen without paying a Pro price.
Don’t forget there will and should be pro only features and there already is with the exclusion of reference mode
@@blowfishes i think they did it because they know if they don’t now the next air won’t have m2 and the ipad pro vice versa but why release something if it’s going to get a better chip the next year that changes so many things as we’ve seen, i like to stick to the rule if you need something get it devices and things will always be obsolete whether it be the next day next week next year etc
@@blowfishes i think they did it because they know if they don’t now the next air won’t have m2 and the ipad pro vice versa but why release something if it’s going to get a better chip the next year that changes so many things as we’ve seen, i like to stick to the rule if you need something get it devices and things will always be obsolete whether it be the next day next week next year etc
A second class release for the majority of iPad users. Why can’t we still not reduce the size of the dock or change its orientation on screen as well as disabling the slide bar?
Your explanation about 4 or 6gb of ram being too little for stage manager doesn’t make sense. Come on man I think it’s an offense for tech savvy people and non-tech savvy people. Samsung pulled off Dex with the same ram and less powerful chips yet they allow more apps and a beautiful experience and you’re telling me a12x and A12z can’t use stage manager because of this? Really? No offense but I don’t agree with your explanation I think it all comes down to the money I am so done with apple.
I respect your take but I also think you underestimate how much ram it takes to properly pull off an experience like this. You also fail to remember how long Apple usually supports older devices. Yes they want to make money, but they also want to deliver a solid experience. Stage Manger is a lot more complicated than we realize… it’s barely working properly on my M1 iPad Pro as we speak!
@@NoahHerman well a weather app does not justify an updated for the 2020 iPad Pro and by no means 6gb of ram could not handle stage manager and deliver a great experience or full scale external monitor support. It’s a slap in the face from apple to all its consumers.
They're basically separating the lineup as "iPad tablet" and "iPad laptop". You can see them doing that with the iPad Air that came with 64GB or 256GB storage option.
It sucks that the previous A-series iPads that could handle Stage Manager perfectly are left out, but with iPadOS's ability to suspend apps unlike macOS, they could've squeezed them in.
And for those who say that old Intel Macs can run Stage Manager perfectly, my 2020 Intel MacBook Pro sometimes struggles with it.
Remember that the iPad Pro 2018 has 4GB of ram until you get the 1TB option which has 6GB of ram. That is only 2gb off so it can clearly run stage manager even if it is limited to 2 or 3 apps.
And all the iPad Pros 2020 has 6GB of ram so THAT is enough to run stage manager.
Apple also talked about the M1’s even if you have the 8gb model it will use storage so it basically will have so much ram.
Due to the fact that M1 is based off of A12X/A12Z and it even looks and has the same dimensions. Apple can clearly let the storage to ram option (memory swap) for older iPad pros and we technically would have so much more ram
Also watch maxtechs new video about it, he showed tweets that someone found an legacy option to enable stage manger on older ipads in the ipados 16 code
The storage in the M1 -v- the A-chips are different so I am not sure they would handlw heavy swaps. If you had just 4GB of RAM (my 2018 Pro) then I would be swapping out literally every time I moved to another app as Procreate takes 3GB of RAM. That would destroy my 128GB storage in no time and as only 30GB is free, then the destruction would be fast. I expect the storage in the M1 iPads are of higher spec, built to task heavy swapping whereas the storage in non-M1 iPads will be less resiliant. Apple would end up with devices crahing and burning and get even worse PR.
let them give everyone access to the stage manager and see how we like it. i bought my ipad 3 months before the m1 came out. and they didn’t drop the price or warned us. they happily took our money and kept quiet
I mean it's not like they can just reveal what they're working on haha. But I get it... it's an unfortunate sequence of events. I'm just thankful I was encouraging people to buy 2018 models, because the 2020 really wasn't any better.
I'd have to disagree with you on that one. The dev kit that used a A12z was able to run full macOS. The excuse about ram doesn't make any sense.
I have the A14 iPad Air just last year
And I feel this really unfair
Please stop with the hardware limitations garbage talk.... There are $200 chrome books that can do that with 1/10th of the hardware. Pure 100% cash grab by Apple.
literally just bought an iPad Air 4 and I can’t sue it with new update. Barely adds anything to my iPad not even the lockscreen customization like on iOS
I am somehow not convinced that it is only due to the architecture. I am more inclined to believe it is just a way to force people to upgrade, something that I will definitely not do. I bought the 2020 iPad Pro expecting that it would be upgraded in features with its software upgrade life cycle... Only to see 2 years down the road that being a top-of-the-line product category, my iPad will not be getting the full experience from an operating system upgrade.
I will stick with my iPad Pro 2020 for as long as it lasts me and hopefully it will be a long time.
Again, it's a memory issue, not necessarily horse-power/processor type. But I guess my point about A12X/Z vs M1 is that Apple would be less inclined to optimizing an intensive experience for a nearly 4 year old processor.
@@NoahHerman sure, yes... but my 4-year-old Samsung Galaxy Note 9 does DeX with full external monitor support and handles multiple applications on screen with window resizing, etc... all on 6GB of RAM + the CPU.
The iPad Pro 2020, a 2-year-old top-tier product with a superior chip architecture and the same 6GB of RAM can't provide a similar experience?
I call B.S. on that all day, any day!
I hope my iPad lasts me for 8 years because I'm not seeing purchasing another for a long while. After all, maybe after 2 years, those M1 iPads might not be considered "adequate" by Apple then.
@@stockwa I'm with you on the "they could've done something for the older models" argument. A12X/Z is definitely powerful enough to push some kind of alternate UI/external display... but they have a vision, and they want the experience to suit "Pro users," whatever that means lol. So I can see why they've prioritize M1 models. The experience right now is so broken bro... I'm honestly not surprised. They have a LOT of work to do before they release the pubic beta.
@@NoahHerman I do get your point, though. Fortunately, I am quite happy with the way my iPad works... Wonderful for the uses i have for it... even if it is limited in many other ways as you and many others have pointed out.
I am just not going to spend any money upgrading from this device, one that the company does no longer consider "Pro" after 2 years on the market, at least as far as software upgrades is concerned.
even as an M1 user, I feel Apple should honestly discontinue the iPad Pro line. they barely put in effort for iPad. what's the point for those who buy a Pro iPad and they can't even get the new lock screen from iOS 16 and stage manager. meanwhile, old ass Samsung phones can be used for Samsung Dex. but, what do I know.
I disagree, but the progress has been slow. I blame COVID, a lot of these improvements probably should've come last year. But I wouldn't make the mistake of comparing Apple's interface and goals with Stage Manger to DeX, Windows or any Android experience.
@@NoahHerman maybe what I said above was a bit too much. I just feel Apple, as good as they can be, they take so long to roll out such basic features. for example, haptic feedback when typing on iPhones finally implemented in the default keyboard. after all these years, I thought iPhone always had it. guess not lol
@@pipthegooner I'm with you man. Imagine your job being tied up in what Apple releases/doesn't release. I've felt your pain ahaha.
I think you're forgetting about the point that Apple's OWN Arm Transition Kit used an A12z in a Mac Mini chassis that ran full MacOS Big Sur AND supported swap memory which now suddenly is an M1 only feature despite the A12z being fully capable of running a desktop operating system.
True but I’m pretty sure the kit had 16 GB Ram.
I’m well aware, but memory swap is not available with A12Z, and that chip is like 60% as powerful as the M1 on top of that.
The kit had 16GB of RAM so this argument seems to be trotted out but is an unreasonable comparison as non-M1 iPads do not have the same robust storage that is built for swap, or 16GB of RAM, and especially as it has been mentioned by Apple and others that RAM is what matters more than CPU or GPU (though M1 will obviously speed things up).
@@NoahHerman they could’ve limited the apps on background if it were a ram problem (say, instead of 8 apps running simultaneously, run 4 on non M1 iPads). A12z is not M1 level chip, sure, but it’s still one of the best and most powerful chips out there especially on mobile devices, on Samsung a lot of devices that aren’t even 25% as powerful as the iPads can run things like Dex very well. This is not a performance issue, is just apple not wanting to support it to leave out the A-series chips as quickly as possible to fully move to M chips
Have an iPad mini 6 and I’m not too disappointed about missing out on stage manager, but at least give us the full external display scaling support….don’t see how memory swap would be an issue with that
I'd say let the older iPads have stage manager because it's really unfair for the people that spend A LOT of money on an iPad pro/air and not get the iPadOS features. If Apple is being money hungry like they always are, they should let the older iPads have stage manager even though there maybe some lag, then it's up to the people if they want to get a faster (non-lag) or keep their iPads and deal with lag. If that happens people should have a feature of how many apps they want to have on the screen that may reduce lag.
Honestly stage manager is not that useful for productivity for me.
This young man is a thoroughly professional presenter. He knows his material, is quick to the point and is highly organized. Two thumbs up.
Bro! Im so mad… it makes no sense for a device like the air 4 which isn’t even 2 years old to not get stage manager or the new features! I get they don’t have memory swap but they can still put a more limited version of stage manager on the A14 and A13 iPads or at least give them monitor support to some extent!
Yeah man I feel ya, but perhaps that too would be not a great experience with the hardware inside
They just can limit the amount of apps you can open on stage manager in non M1 iPads. They did something similar with the split view on iPads with only 2gb of RAM in the past. So I guess they just want you to upgrade to the newer models. No excuses.
@@mam.c definitely
I think it’s completely bs that this is hardware related, a Mac Mini with an iPad Processor ran macOS just find, stage manager isn’t that intensive, this is simply just a bad call from apple
Those were supplied with 16GB of RAM to developers, not 4GB that are in the 2018 iPads. How can they be directly compared when Apple has said the limitation is directly due to lack of RAM. Why are not people understanding this, it is not the CPU or GPU, it is RAM, and mainly the amount, and also the ability to memory swap which non-M1 iPads are not as robust at.
Even an old laptop from 2013 with the latest windows 10 can do all that just fine, even with 6gb of ram 🤷🏻♂️
They limiting stage manager and the simple feature of UI scaling to M1 iPad Pros and software gating the 2020 iPad Pro is why I’m never spending $800+ for an iPad again they’re just not worth it, when the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros came out they were marketed as a “computer replacement” but now we see that they really aren’t more powerful than a 2015/2016 MacBook Pro as they run full macOS perfectly fine while the 2020 iPad Pro is basically obsolete.
They are still not ready for what iPad users want and need. Let's face it, and I am gonna be very upfront, we have been bamboozled by Apple placing the M1 processor into a device that really was not ready with a proper OS. And no, external screens only work for a few set of screens. I have some LG 24 inch monitors that do not work, this can change in the future but as of now iPadOS16 still has done nothing for the iPadPro 11". Stage manager? Pfffff give me a break, that is not multitasking, that is just a task-swapper where only apps in the foreground are capable of running, oh right we can merge and drag and drop.... Well woooohooooo 12 months have gone by. I have given up hope, I am going to use the iPad for what it is: A fine device to watch movies on.
The iPad is a tablet at its core. If you want laptop functionality then you really are in the wrong place. As for Stage Manager, it is the same as DeX in all but design, DeX being a direct copy of a Windows UI. I am not really sure what else you want? Developers have to code for iPads so if they do not think it is economically viable they wont. Of course, iPads have more pro apps than Android so if you do not like iAPdOS then Android will suck more? Just buy a cheap iPad for tablet work and get a laptop for the stuff you need.
@@andyH_England I have been using devices for decades. So don't tell me that Stage Manager is the same as DeX, it is dumbing down the experience. Developers are not coding for iPads, they are coding for IOS devices because that was Apple's big push three years ago. What I want is the Apple is going to get serious about the iPad and the operating system they want to use on it. Because "what is a computer" will become very much the new slogan. It is not a computer and yet shares computer like functions. It does not do a great job at that. This is, of course, my opinion and I differ from yours - by the way Android does not suck, but the ecosystem with Apple is much better.
It’s not like lesser hardware has been able to do this for decades with actual apps and not mobile apps, oh wait!
Apple just proved that OS updates are useless to older devices. Apparently iPad Pro 2020 isn't pro enough for those new OS features.
Not powerful enough*
@@NoahHerman not powerful enough for stage manger but powerful enough for Big Sur? DTK is powered by A12Z, same chip used in iPad Pro 2020
@@type45tomcat21 I am well aware. But Stage Manager is not macOS; it’s an entirely different experience that is all about giving the user the most performance, not just in basic web apps.
@@type45tomcat21 www.macrumors.com/2022/06/10/apple-statement-on-stage-manager-m1-ipads/
@@NoahHerman thank you for letting me know Apple's statement, but it means nothing. A single "Sorry" would means more than all those letters. Apple has been promoting iPad Pro as something can replace laptop, with 4 or 6 GB of RAM onboard. Now you are telling me your iPad Pro can't be laptop replacement because it did not have enough RAM, something decided by Apple. Your decision, we suffer, no regret, no apology, not even a single sorry. Thanks Apple.
I bought the iPad Pro 2020 because I wanted to use it for many years and thought with the Pro line I’m safe for the next few years‘ updates and new functions. Now I feel like I wasted my money. I feel fooled and betrayed.
This is *not* a good step in the right direction, this makes it harder for people who don’t have the budget for the iPad Pro 2021 or later or M1 Air to do everything that we need. I personally use my iPad 10.2 (granted, 8th Gen, not 9th) as my main laptop because I don’t have the budget to get an expensive laptop. I know so many people who use the 10.2 or mini and especially who recently got them.
Yeah they are giving you a reason to go Pro... but over time I think these bougie features will be passed down. One day the baseline iPad will pack the M1 when we're on M3 or something haha
I refuse to believe that the Galaxy Tab S series which can do all this is more powerful than my iPad Air 4. TRY HARDER, APPLE.
They got competition haha
Everyone seems to forget old intel chips like the core 2 duo with 4 GB of ram used to run macOS with its complicated preemptive multitasking, virtual memory swapping and so on. How is it the case that those chips ran macOS and supported windowing, but an a12z with more cores and graphics performance and even more ram can’t support stage manager, even if in a less fully featured form.
So instead of up to 8 simultaneous apps max as on iPad Pro with m1, what about 6 or 4 simultaneous apps with iPad 2020 pro? There are no excuses. Apple is trying to increase iPad sales, and cutting off the 2020 iPad Pro from stage manager is one way to incentivize more sales of m1 or m2 hardware.
Just give a limited stage manager functionality to older iPads to be on par with 4/6 gigs of Ram, the experience will still be good.
How do you limit that? I suspect Apple has tried all the options and may have found a way but is still working on it for later release, or they may have tested alternatives and found that it is to unstable?
@@andyH_England Perhaps, you both raise great points!!
We can also likely count on this new UI capability weighing enough on the processor to drive us to M2, M3 and later processors over a very short period of time. Building in obsolescence is becoming a more rapidly-accelerating trend with the nearly forced move to M1 for features of the OS. They won't build it to be light because that would enable the M1 powered IPads to last due to their incredible power. I predict, hopefully wrongly, that these new features will put a significant strain on the processor intentionally to force moves to newer iPads in 1-3 years.
The thing is, that I personally don’t need a Mac because I can do everything on a iPad. Earlier this year I bought a 2020 iPad Pro and so far it did what I needed it to do. Yet as my workflow became a little more demanding I felt that the 2020 model startet to break down, for example I write something in Word and have another app in splitview. Then I switch to fullscreen safari to research something and when I come back to Word it had to reload the app.
For me, stage manager and external monitor support would have been a relief. I will probably buy the M1 iPad Pro because like I said, I don’t need a Mac to do what I do.
Apple we will keep ranting until you give us all the iPad os 16 features at least for the a12x, a12z, and a14 iPads.
I have a normal iPad 7th Generation I downloaded the beta 2 public version on it. And I have noticed no differences other then the font on my Lock Screen is bolder
I’m scratching my head with this stage manager functionality as Apple just cannot seem to get this right on iPadOS. Apple is clearly trying to add features to iPad which respond to the criticism regarding the lack of versatility of the system. Very average multitasking and the awful external display support are two very good examples. However at the same time, they are trying not to cannibalise the macOS products and so they are still severely limiting iPad OS in many ways. I have a strong suspicion that this will just end up in a complete dogs dinner of a mess. This stage manager is so convoluted and confusing. I cannot arrange the windows how I want. Only how Apple wants me too. Infuriating. The iPad Pro simply isn’t worth the financial outlay for something which still probably won’t be exactly what customers are seeking. Time will tell. I have no intention of buying another iPad Pro. Still running the 2020 model. A MacBook Air and the classic budget iPad for pen support is the way to go for most people.
Hey sir, sorry but what do u mean by “budget iPad for pen support”? Like, can u use the IPad as a digitalizing table which I can plug to use together with the MacBook?
I agree. Weaker Mac OS, Chrome OS, Linux, Windows, and Android tablets implement external monitor support better. Apple's excuse of limiting iPad A series in order for customers to upgrade to M1/M2 iPads!
i only recently got a 2020 pro as well :/ there's no way i could afford an m1 ipad, i opted to get an m1 macbook anyway- for audio production. ipad OS isn't in the same ecosystem as mac, so i wouldn't be able to use my plugins. and 16gb ram is likely the minimum i'd need...
with ipad, i could get by with 6gb maybe. the price jump to the m1 was too much for me and getting a powerhouse mac was more important
I was really excited for this feature but seeing that it’s only available for iPad’s with M1 in it after I purchases a 2020 pro, im very disappointed but not surprised. I want to hope that Apple will eventually bring it to all their iPads like how Samsung brought Dex to all their galaxy tablets. But honestly I’m not too sure. The only thing holding me back from possibly going the galaxy tab route for my next tablet update is app system.
MacBook Air with 4 GB of RAM and an intel processor supports full MacOS and yet iPad Pro 2020 with a more modern processor can’t do something more simple because reasons. They’re losing me with the iPad at this point, cause it’s not a big update at all if you don’t have M1.
A mB Air with 4GB would be awful running eight apps at a time with heavy pro apps like Procreate using at least 3GB. It could use swap but that would slow it down but not a very good example.
@@andyH_England 110% Agree with you there. That is why you scale it down to just 4 Apps in non M1 devices, they did this with iPads below 3GB of RAM, you couldn’t interact with more than 2 apps at once but on 4GB models you could interact with an extra slide over app (3 apps at once). So less capable iPads still got split view, just not it’s full capability. Something similar can be done on A12X/Z iPads, instead of 8 apps, just 4. Plus the MacBook Air I mentioned it’s archaic, what I meant is that the iPad does less while been more advanced, which is counterintuitive. But it’s just my opinion.
@@andyH_England if you don’t run pro apps you can have even 12 applications running simultaneously… just saying
Honestly I wish Apple would just admit that they're doing this limitation on older devices to encourage people to upgrade. I just saw Renee Richie's video and I find it honestly insulting to the intelligence of Apple consumers that they're trying to act that a basic desktop mode with a resizable windows cannot be accomplished with the second most powerful chip ever put on a tablet. Even though a Galaxy S9 from 2017 or something and the MacBook with an Intel chip from 2017 can do it just fine. Hell, a $200 Chromebook with 4 GB of RAM has no problem supporting external monitor with basically unlimited resizable windows.
When exactly do iOS 16 comes to iPad?
I have the suspicion that the iPad department is neglected
Sooooo I have a 2021 iPad Pro, but not the M1. While I understand that I can't use Stage Manager, will I at least be able to use an external display without the stupid black bars on the sides?
what? all 2021 iPad Pros all have the M1 chip. what are you talking about?
@@pipthegooner ahhh I must have the 2020 model then. I got mine rightttt before they released the M1 iPad.
Noah. Have you seen the video from Max Tech? There is no reason Apple couldn't at least allow propper external monitor support without the black bars on each side of the screen. They could have at least given 2018 and 2020 ipad pro owners that !!
You're right, external display support shouldn't be an issue at all. But the Stage Manager interface apparently is hard to push... but I agree. Apple could've at least allowed 2018 and 2020 users to connect externally, turn the iPad display off and let people use a scaled up version of the preexisting iPadOS interface. Maybe no stage manager and split screen at most.
But trust me when I say... Stage Manager is so buggy right now. It makes sense that they would only optimize an experience specifically for the M1 iPad Pros. Regardless, I wish they could've done more for older gen users :(
Thanks for explaining in some detail how these new updates may be intended to be appeal to customers, sometimes reviewers can gloss over that too much and it starts seeming like they are just dragging the iPad lines for not also being able to make espresso or something. Sounds like if the iPad can hold its own in terms of a benchmark task like video editing, that'll change the landscape substantially. I don't mind at all that my 9th gen basic iPad is essentially just for working with ProCreate and as a functional accessibility device for my visual impairment, but if iPad OS is able to perform some truly beefy tasks, that's a big deal.
Can other ipads use the external monitor full screen too ?
Anyone giving a pass to Apple’s excuses, at this point, is simply a paid advertisement
so my ipad air4th gen (a14 bionic chip version)not gonna get it? 😱 this is not far since I bought my ipad air jzt a year ago and I don’t get stage manager? Then what is the point for updating to iPad os 16? If only the best features are for pro models only then why do they have other non pro iPads?
iPadOS 16 has lots of other features, not as headline as Stage Manager but def worth upgrading to (remember they get a lot of the iOS 16 updates).
With Stage Manager, can you have Netflix on full screen on the external monitor and continue to work off the iPad?
I’m so salty right now I could be a f***ing sea creature. I was upgrading this year anyway from my 2018 iPad Pro, however it still annoys me that features only support M1. Besides, if I get the M2 Air, that will replace a 2013 MacBook Air and my iPad, so……….. Thx Noah 🙏🏻 🙂
Go for it!! Very safe upgrade. But if you want to replace your iPad Pro 2018 with an Air 5th gen or a used Pro 11" 3rd gen... it wouldn't be a bad idea either :)
I’m still rocking the iPad 2018 11in and it works fantastically. I guess I just won’t have stage manager, cuz they are bugging if I’m gonna drop bank just for a faster chip.
I didn't like how the video worked around this stage manager issue. It compares to old iPad pro, but you have new models like iPad air 4, iPad mini 6 and iPad 9 that is going to be harmed with that decision, the video don't even mention this.
If you connect an external display to M1 iPad Pro via usb-c then connect to that iPad Pro wirelessly via sidecar from a Mac mini or m1 MacBook Air will you now 3 or potentially 4 displays?
For the display does it have to be a Mac display or can you use another monitor ?
ATM it is hit and miss and I assume Apple is aiming for full support but as we are in early developer beta not all monitors have driver support yet.
I can't stand it anymore. All those tech bloggers without a clue believing this bullshit. Guys... my 2012 MacBook pro with 4gb of ram can run a full blown osx with more than 8 apps. why? because virtual memory swap is a technology as old as Linux. of course your old iPad is capable of running stage manager. it's also capable of running macos and we already saw it in the dev kit. the m1 in reality is a rebranded A chip. they are just lying to bump up the ipad sales. the iPad is crippled down since years in terms of its software. it was never intended to be good. it was intended to develop chips to be put in a Mac, which they finally did. the iPad is just as good as it needs to be to sell you a secondary device.
Last year everyone was complaining that the M1 Ipads were overpowered, too fast and not taking advantage of the M1 processor. Apple listened and delivered. Now people are complaining that these features are not compatible with non-M1 processors. You can’t have it both ways!
Apple is money hungry period! IPad OS 16 will push people to other alternatives.
Sold my 2015 iPad Pro 12.9 will never buy a apple product ever again.
Maybe it’s just me, but stage manager doesn’t seem all that useful. I have the 11” iPad Pro M1 and I don’t really see myself using this feature much. My screen is already small and stage manager just seems to leave a lot of dead/unused space. Additionally, not being able to drag apps from the iPad to the extended display is a huge miss in my opinion. Also, I personally think this feature should be iPad “pro” exclusive, not M1 exclusive. If ram really is the issue here, apple could just limit the number of apps you can have open based on ram usage.
It needs to be improved. It's also hella buggy... but I'm remaining optimistic! :) And yeah... you think they could've had a compromise with the older gen models... but considering how buggy it is right now it makes sense that they're optimizing for a more capable device.
@@NoahHerman Word.
That’s not the only problem, the fact that Apple did this to their relatively new product is what pissed off the public. I don’t even care if Stage Manager finally come to my 9th gen as the demo shows it really sucks, it’s just the fact that Apple even consider doing this to their barely old product indicates bleak future for rest of us.
i have an ipad 8thgen with 256gb and ios16 so far feels so lacklustre. i would have wanted something and we have nothing as regular ipad users. it sucks and feels very offensive that anyone other than professionals have been left out
how do you now that I am up-sad... ipad air 4 😢thanks for making this video
Memory Swap/Virtual Memory is more than possible on both older iPads and non M1 Macs. All it is at this point is excuses for Apple, since in a virtual machine on an unsupported Mac, Stage Manager worked fine with only 4GB of RAM available.
iPhone memory which is used in iPads was not built for memory swap, where as M1 storage is more robust and designed to cope with high swapping numbers. Failed storage would be bad for Apple and consumers so Apple has to be sensible.
@@andyH_England I'm with Andy on this one... if older gen models used swap it could ruin those SSDs and completely f*** up peoples personal data. But maybe I'm/he's wrong.
disgusting attempt to get all ipad pro users with a pre 2021M1 model to upgrade to the m1 ipad pro is truly unaware i’d rather move back to buying a macbooks then fork out the same ammounts of money for stage manager which let’s face is a pathetic attempt to be more macos like soo i’d rather just go back to Macos on a macbook Air
My iPad Pro 12.9 (2020) has 6GB of Ram and can't do stage manager? I find that hard to believe.
So frustrating!! They will lose customers 😒
I love your open-minded explanation as to why stage manager isn't going to be available in older iPads. Thanks so much for your video. I have an iPad mini 6 and a 2018 iPad Pro and I was so excited about learning about stage manager in WWDC I started counting down the days of the release date to the public until I found out its not available for the current iPads that I own. It sucks so bad but it would be a huge great investment for me to update to a M1 iPad since I use iPads as my main device than my MacBook Air M1 2020 device.Being an iPad lover I think stage manger seems like a better fit for iPads than MacBooks because of their software. it just seems out of place in MacBooks..... I'm going to be giving away my MacBook to my cousin who recently graduated high school and is heading into University. He'll have more use with it than me.
Is it okay if I keep my iOS 16 beta forever ?
Every excuse you use on this video to justify features being M1 exclusive don't have ANY SENSE. "Four year old architecture" You repeat that a lot like if it is a bad thing when there is really no real difference with the gen before the M1 Pro. Hardware limitations? I'm sure you are joking when i see more than 6 years old potato Android tablets using REAL multitasking with maybe 1/10 of the power of M1 at best and 4 gb of RAM or even less. Are you implying ipados is not efficient than Android anymore then?
The real reason is really simple. Apple wants you to buy M1 with the "PRO" feature of multitasking because they want to make money. I don't know why "tech" tubers are trying to make excuses for Apple when it is obvious what is happening.
I just dowload public beta 2 and I have noticed no changes
Does Files app still corrupt your files when copying stuff to your HDD?
I’m holding my self from installing the beta one.
Not sure for how long, but stage manager really tempting
Yeah don't... if your iPad is your main device it's a terrible idea. Wait until the Public Beta, more apps will work!
Dude, android tablets so with 4GB RAM had desktop years back. Now apple needs RAM swap to incorporate semi desktop interface. LOL
I get what you're saying but I don't think that's Apple's intention, nor do I think Stage Manager is comparable to what Microsoft or Google are going for
@@NoahHerman it’s more fancy that’s for sure. But is it more functional? How do you think? IMO simple desktop environment would do. For sure i’ll be using it on my M1 device, but still it’s a bummer they will not backport this to non M machines.
@@qwer55555555 A bummer indeed, I don't disagree with you there. And I don't know quite yet, I think I'll have a more complete opinion on the matter once I use a non-broken version with the public beta :)
@@NoahHerman cool. I’ll wait for your opinion then ;)
How did you get task manager on the left side of the screen? I thought apple disabled that feature last year
Can you please please tell me
Can I now see my iPad 11" display bigger on an external monitor usin stage manager ?
I'm using iPad Pro 11" 2019 version
Hi Noah could you please do a video on iPhone 11 Pro now?
What new things does the stage manager bring that couldn’t be done using split screen and slide over where three apps could be used at once with one app in slide over or maybe even 4 apps with a video in PIP. In Stage manager, you cannot even use 3 apps without them overlapping. Only use case that I can think of is when the iPad is connected to an external display. And only M1 iPads support Stage Manager! I’m an owner of the M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch but that doesn’t stop the iPadOS flaws. And I don’t blame apple too because they don’t want to merge mac and iPads.
can we use stage manager on ipad air 5 m1 64gb with external ssd plz reply :(
Bruh I basically need to pay hundreds of dollars more to use the new ipadOS and in my country apple is already more expensive
Does the ipad air 5 support the stage manager and virtual memory swap??
Yeah! The Air 5 does
It does, but only the 256GB version iirc.
You really telling me I need M1 just to have full screen external display support
And Stage Manager, yes
More like you need to pay apple more money to get this early 2000s feature
So my iMac or even MacBook Air with out fan with only 8gigs can juggle a plethora of applications but my iPad Pro although not with the exact same chip but pretty well equipped one and 6gigs of ram can on do 2 things at once that bs that clearly apple limiting a product early in its life if a 2016/2017 Mac book can run stage manager then my iPad should have no problem
Last year I bought the iPad 9 and was excited as it was my first iPad. I don’t get why stage manager is only M1 excl. For real iPadOS 16 is only a big update for M1 iPads and not for the others. They shld have named this iPadOS 16 M1. Very disappointed. 😪
Great video as always Noah!! Thank you.
I think it’s obvious at this point that Apple isn’t going to unchain the potential of the iPad any time soon. A fully optimized iPadOS would pretty much kill my need for a Mac.
What’s the point then to buying a more expensive iPad “Pro” instead of an iPad Air if features like this cannot be used in it. 🤦🏻♀️
iPad Pro can be configured with more storage, more memory and of course a bigger, better and higher refresh rate display. However you're right, performance wise there is not much of a difference. iPad Pro M2 will make buying a Pro model make sense though... iPad Air won't get M2 for a while, after iPad Pro at the very least.
Thanks for the videos. At this point would you recommend a 5th gen iPad Air or a 2018 iPad Pro 11?
Stage Manager works on much older IPad with a jailbreak.