The Screwdriver Test
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
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On Oliver diesel tractors with the American Bosch injection, things can get stuck in the head if they sit for extended periods of time and the fuel goes bad. This test is fairly quick and will show if the pump needs to be disassembled to free up the parts, or if it is loose enough to work correctly. The parts are getting scarce for these pumps, so a repair can be very expensive. This video show how to do the test.
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That test will only tell you if the control sleeve is stuck. The plunger could still be stuck in the head. I take the front cover off, mark the timing bolts as to which holes they are in them remove them. You can the GENTLY turn the center nut while you watch through control sleeve hole. The plunger will rotate and go up and down. It's hard to see. On 6 cylinders it has a 3 sided cam that you will feel some resistance on from the plunger spring. Some people take the pump clear off to test it but I have been successful doing it this way so far.
That makes sense. John didn't go into that much detail in his article. He did mention taking the front cover off like you mentioned. I guess we'll find out if I broke anything.
From the looks of it you're probably ok. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge. That's about all I got!
@@paulaagaard7641 i appreciate the input. Anything that keeps them running is good in my book
I try to start my diesels every 3-4 months and keep fresh fuel in them so I don't have to check them. It's doesn't take long to check them after you've done it a few times. I only share to keep them going as well. John has been very helpful to me and many others. Bless him for sharing all his knowledge and thank you for all yours too!
Nice video with you in front of the camera and Alan doing the filming. Great information and excellent explanation on the injection pump. Your tech tips I’m sure will be a nice addition to the magazine.
Thanks!
Interesting details on the Oliver engines Chris. The first diesel tractor in our area in central PA was an Oliver 77. A young farmer had returned from WWII and had seen Diesel engines and wanted a diesel tractor. He first went to the local IH dealership and tried to buy a diesel tractor. He was told they would not sell one and it was a silly idea. He went to the Oliver dealer and bought the 77. He told me once that many people in the community came by and wanted to see this unique tractor that they could hold their hand over the exhaust and there hand was not burned!
He became a longtime Oliver customer!
It was 1954 or 55 when Oliver had over half the diesel tractor market. Of course, at that time that was a small slice of the overall pie. Now it would be dominating!
Honestly Chris I was waiting for the “swear jar” to make an appearance 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I can still see where that wire poked my finger. LOL
Congrats Chris!!!!
What an honor to be asked to do the tech tips!!!
Yes it was! Thanks!
Chris I enjoy watching all of your videos, But my swear jar would be a 55 gallon drum. You are very patient man.
Thanks!
As someone who signs off the lockwiring of others as airworthy, the way you did it was fine, not a work of art, but perfectly acceptable for the application.
Thanks! Definitely not the prettiest thing I have ever done.
That must have been one heck of a durable gas engine in those Olivers if it was built heavy enough for diesel. Thanks for serving the greater Oliver community via tech talks. 👍
The 1600 I'm slowly rebuilding only needed a polish on the crank and will be getting standard bearings after all these years. And the rods are squirt lubricated, not pressure fed through the crankshaft.
In the late 50's or early 1960s my dad and grandpa bought a Ford 861 diesel. Ford did the opposite of Oliver and tried to make the gas 172 cubic inch gas engine into a diesel. In the 1st year the block cracked so it got replaced...next year replacement block cracked. It was back to gas only until the later 60's when Ford built a real diesel engine.
@@bigfoot4515 And that lesson was repeated with the 350 Olds diesel. We had fairly good luck with the 2 we had, but what a disaster overall.
The other Green Company made 3 cylinder gas engines from their Yanmar Diesels for commecial garden tractors. Those gas engines would out last 2-3 Liquid Cooled V-Twin engines!
@@bigfoot4515 Seems like the only company that successfully converted a Gas to Diesel was VW and their 1.6 4 cylinders. But the gas was a 5 main crank..
Hi Chris
Our 570 Cockshutt with the 339 Hercules uses an American Bosch pump that appears to be the same as this 88. I read somewhere once that if they sit more than six months this should be checked. So this video will be a great resource as once folks see it done will realize it is not difficult or take a lot of time. Thanks for all your tech videos.
Thank you for watching, I'm just passing on knowledge from the generation that knew what they were doing. The PSB was used on a few manufacturers, so hopefully this helps a few people.
That cardboard trick will work on other RUclipsrs that won’t shut their mouth either.
That depends on whether they blow or suck.
@@ThatOliverGuyChrisif you stuff it in far enough it won’t matter.
Animal noises
Man who ever put that engine together looks like they did a great job jod luck with the tech tips it seems like you know a lot about the Oliver tractors I just wish there was someone that knew about the 1450 that I have
Thanks!
Chris, you are an awesome man to carry on with tech tips. It seems very evident you love what you do and people love you for doing it. I think it is valuable to have the medium to share your knowledge to everyone who care to listen that people like Dean never had. I have a Super 88 diesel that needs to be redone. I will learn from this.
Chris, like always you seem to be a vast wealth of knowledge. Nice of you to pick up where the other person left off. But it is a very good idea to check everything out prior to starting it. I never seen a six-row mounted cultivator. I know dad had a four row mounted cultivator when I was a kid. Thanks Michael
6 rows on a Super 88 would be something. I'll see if he has a picture I can use in a future video.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thanks that would be neat to see that if you can come up with a picture. Michael
Hi 😊 Chris 👋. Great video 👍. My opinion on the wire twist; there's two ways. there aviation way- by twisting between the screws and after the last one. And the farmer way - run the wire through the holes than twist at the end 😂. Great job you did the farmer way 🎉🎉
I'm going to have to look up the aviation way. I'm sure there must be videos on RUclips
I agree Chris, why chance with getting something a bit toasty!! Plus new rebuilds always run hotter faster because everything hasn't taken that final "polish"! Also if there is a cooling leak knowing now is better than after you have it all painted. Can't wait to see it run!!!!
Very interesting tip. There is just so much to know. Glad you're gonna be doing tech tips and I will definitely look for your articles.
I'm still learning!
Chris, we have 4 diesel tractors with the Bosch system. A 77, 88, And 2 880s. 1 880 is a ongoing project. The 88 is the hardest starting one of them. Our 77 has the early square head on it and it will start at 20 degrees just like it is 85 degrees and you can’t tell the difference. Our other 880 is usually pretty good about starting in cold weather but it also has a elbow water heater in it that I try to plug in if need be.
I love the Oliver diesels with the Bosch pumps. They were really ahead of their time!
Ps I sent you a email regarding another project.
Bailey @ The Oliver Acreage
My dad used duck bill pliers when he did safety wire and being an aircraft mechanic there's no telling how many miles of safety wire he did in his lifetime.
I need to practice with them more. A little heavier wire would have helped too.
wow what a timly video we are going to start my dads old 77 this summer it hasn"t ran in a few.. thanks
Good luck!
We used to have to repair pumps ourselves. The nearest pump shop was an auto parts store a 120 round trip mile x 2. The old mechanical pumps were not rocket science. A man put them together so man can repair them. I think the pump shops make a fortune by cleaning up a pump, putting a new head or transfer pump in it, and dialing in maybe a few percent more fuel delivery which always makes the customer feel like the $1,000 he just spent was a great value. Roosa Master pumps could be rebuilt on the back of the service pump. common problems, metering valve linkage or the valve itself, flex coupler failed (a very common failure on the GM 350 diesels that they sold for a couple of years), transfer pump worn out, pump cam ring worn our, shaft seals, and the magic fix of just tightening the leaf spring a little bit to give that extra few ponies. Not rocket science. Same with injectors. Test the injectors by removing them, reinstall them with the injector not in the engine, crank the engine and watch all of the injectors for bad patterns. Replace tips or the whole injector.
We have had a good injection shop nearby for years, so I guess it was easier to take them in. I've done more injection pump work in the last two years than the rest of my life.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Chris. Your an excellent teacher and do a great job explaining things like this.
I appreciate that!
Great video Chris. I’ve done John’s screwdriver test before. Thanks for putting it into video format and for the HPOCA advertisement.
A former mechanic from our dealership stopped by after I had done the test, and he recalled our long time mechanic doing it once or twice.
I think it's great that you get to help out with tips on the magazine. I think you put the wire in the injector screws correctly, looks good to me. As for how the pump works and all that, I have to leave that to the experts in the field. My dad had to use his hand and a jersey glove to cover the breather when he over sprayed starter fluid to a JD 820 diesel trying to start it in the cold. Afterwards he had a ring cut in the glove and on his hand from that one, duh! I agree with you on the winter issue, I don't like the intense heat either, good luck and I will be anxious to see her run! As always I enjoyed watching, great information here, thanks. I hope you have a good Sunday and a great week.👍🚜
Thanks Dan! Now that I have gotten started on the project, I'm anxious to get it running. I think it's going to run great.
I had read somewhere that Oliver even cast and forged many parts of those Waukesha engines but Waukesha did all the machining work?? If so it kinda makes sense because of severe tool steel shortage after the war. It allowed them to get those engines intp production faster.
Yep. Castings were poured at the Oliver factory, and machining and assembly was done at Waukesha. The were 2 truck drivers, each left their respective factory and met halfway between, swapped trailers, and went back.
Excellent video! Thanks Chris! We enjoyed it!
Glad to hear it!
You and your wife were magazine editors. Impressive.
How did you like the Waukesha engines compared to the other engines.
We were an Allis Chalmers family, and I believe some of the WD’s and WD 45’s came with Waukeshas.
Thanks for the video.
I've been very happy with the ones I have had, but we've never been the type to overwork stuff. Some guys brag about how they pulled an engine down from wide open to 1400 RPM. We were more of the "maybe we should shift down" type.
I guess I lucked out on my Super 77 Diesel. It set for 10 years. I did have the pump rebuild along with the injectors. Then I discovered a cracked transmission case so after that swap it will be on to the overhaul.
Great news Chris! Congratulations on your new position. I was just reading on a fourm about John and people were asking about him. Anyway I will be looking forward to more great info from you in the magazine.. I was going to ask you about the tractor I had seen it in the background in some other videos. Was the engine completely rebuilt?
Yes, rebuilt and even balanced. It should run great with everything that was done to it.
Nice video Chris
Thanks!
Morning Chris,
I know you don't like attention or credit for anything lol but you are the guy to write tech tips. Thats awesome man, looking forward to reading. So my girlfriend works for the usda and she just got back from Iowa for training. She was only 45 min from the museum.. I couldn't talk her into going though lol, I was hoping I could at least get her over there to take some pictures
Thanks Adam! My wife is a Little House on the Prairie fan, so when we went out to Iowa to get the 4-25L skid steer she wanted to stop at Burr Oak (they lived there for a year). GPS had us going right by Charles City to get there, so we had to stop so I could get a picture of the skid steer in the bed of my pickup, in front of the museum. And as long as we were there, might as well go in. Lol
I just had to have a super 88 pump rebuilt because the last owner parked it 20 years ago filled with Bio diesel. Fuel tank, every fuel line, injection lines, return lines and filter housings were hardened molassas. Pump was 2600.00.
Ouch. At least they were able to get it fixed.
I'm about 3 magazines behind for reading them. I've been to busy bugging Ross with the comments on his videos and working on a Farmall Cub 🤯 The Farmall is one of 302 that were a custom order and painted a different red with a white hood. One of the possibilities was they were ordered by the Canadian Cockshutt dealers but after they were shipped the order got canceled.
I get behind on my magazine at times, and catch up in the winter.
Don’t care what brand anyone owns or collects. A cub belongs no matter what. Just the smallest, most useful little tractor any of the manufacturers ever made. Oliver copied the Super A and made the Super 44 and 440. I’m honestly surprised nobody ever tried to compete with the Cub in that simple little 8-12 horsepower class.
@@kennyz6533 there were others trying to compete such as the Massey Harris pony and Allis Chalmers G but none had the production numbers even close to the Cub
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I'll be looking for your tech tips
Chris which part breaks? That little tang on the piece you removed to get into the fuel regulator sleeve??
That could but it's the plunger in the middle of it that can get seized in the bore. The plunger turns as it goes up and down so that it points at the correct port as the engine runs. I didn't get that on film and should make a sequel. You need to disconnect the drive gear of the pump and ever so gently turn the pump while watching in the hole to see if the plunger turns. If you can see it rotate, you're good. If it doesn't want to turn , don't go any farther. Remove the pump and take it a reputable diesel shop. I did take my screwdriver and turn the gear that is behind the linkage just the little bit that gear backlash would allow, and it turned freely. So I feel confident that it isn't stuck. I need to make a part 2 to show that.
Great video and explanation how to check pump out. Curious if the roosa master pump needs to be examined if it has been sitting too many years?
I'm sure they can eventually get bad enough, but I can't think of anything a guy could do to test it. Parts are more readily available for them, but now that I say that, when I had the pump for the 1855 rebuilt they said that particular model was hard to get parts for and mine needed one of those parts. They were able to find a good used one. I guess I would pull the top cover off and see how bad it looked and if the fuel shut moved freely, and from there if it looky nasty, just take it off and send it in.
👍
Is it gonna be in Heritage Iron Magazine too or just oliver Magazine
Only in the Hart-Parr Oliver Collector magazine, not Oliver Heritage or Heritage Iron.
Greetings from Japan Chris, will you be parading anything for the 4th this year?
Japan? You get around! We're not going to be parading any tractors this year. Long story, but just trying to keep it simple this year.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I’m just here with the Navy for a little bit, I’ll be back in the states soon enough!
The Ricardo style is indirect injection head
Thanks Paul!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
That's awesome you will be doing tech tips for the magazine! Looking forward to that and to you getting this tractor running. Looks like it shouldn't take much to fire it up.
Thanks! I don't think it's going to take much at all. That's what perplexes me. A little more work and the guy could have had this done.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris yes, really just a matter of getting it fuel if he wanted to just fire it up briefly, and a battery to turn it over
How much Fiat stuff is there in the magazine?😊
Honestly, not much. For a long time they weren't very high on the list of many collectors, but I think that has been changing. My experience with them is limited, so I don't see me writing too much on the subject.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris does that mean there may be a special guest tip writer such as John Bender or ???
@@davidroberts3489 that's a good idea. I'll let Greg know. Thanks!
Would love to have someone write some articles on the Fiat built tractors.
I would be glad to provide any Fiat information that I have gleaned from life experience for anyone that may be interested.
🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟🦟 hello from Mo the mosquito 😜😜😜😜😜
LOL