Full Preterism is the ULTIMATE rationalization
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 май 2023
- Full Preterism is the ULTIMATE rationalization
Full Preterist eschatology is the ultimate exercise in rationalization. By interpreting passages through a highly selective and convoluted lens, adherents attempt to salvage the prophecy of Jesus from being labeled a failure. However, the cognitive dissonance required to maintain such a belief is staggering. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, while insisting that it was always meant to be that way. But perhaps the most telling aspect of Full Preterist eschatology is the lengths to which its proponents will go to protect their belief system. Even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they will twist and turn the scripture until it conforms to their worldview. It's a remarkable display of mental gymnastics, but ultimately one that falls short of convincing anyone except the most die-hard believers.
Subscribe to @Matthewhartke
/ @matthewhartke
==============================
*RECOMMENDED ONLINE COURSES HERE*
Check out MVP Courses
www.mvp-courses.com
Sign up here for Dennis MacDonald's course "Reading The Gospels With One Eye on Greek Poetry - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/hom...
Sign up for Dr. Kipp Davis Course "The Real Ancient Israelite Religions"
mythvisionpodcast.com/israeli...
Sign up for Dr. Richard Carrier's Course "New Testament Studies For Everyone."
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/nt-...
Sign up for Bart's new Mark course "The Unknown Jesus"
mythvisionpodcast.com/unknown...
Sign up for 👉 "Creating Jesus: Why Mark’s Gospel Was Forgotten?"
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/fir...
Sign up here for Dr. M. David Litwa's course - The Ancient Greek Mysteries & Christianity - -
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/mys...
Sign up here for Dr. Dale C. Allison Jr's course - The Quest For The Historical Jesus - - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/jes...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's course - Finding Moses - -
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/moses
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's course - Other Virgin Births In Antiquity - -
www.mythvisionpodcast.com/vir...
Sign up for the 7 hour resurrection debate between Dr's Bart Ehrman & Mike Licona here - - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/res...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Genesis "In The Beginning" Webinar here - - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/gen...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Christmas Webinar here - - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/chr...
Sign up for Dr. Bart D. Ehrman's Did Jesus call himself God webinar - - www.mythvisionpodcast.com/bart
============================
**GET RECOMMENDED BOOKS HERE: 👉 amzn.to/35FqNYf
============================
Please consider helping support MythVision's work by joining the Patreon or contributing a one-time donation through my links below:
MythVision Website: 🔥 mythvisionpodcast.com/
MythVision Patreon: 👉 / mythvision
MythVision Paypal: 👉 www.paypal.me/dereklambert7
Cashapp: 👉 $rewiredaddiction
Venmo: 👉 @Derek-Lambert-9
Email MythVision: 👉 mythvisionpodcast@gmail.com
Facebook page: 👉 / mythvision
Facebook group: 👉 / thewaterboyzradio
Twitter: 👉 / derekpodcast
TikTok: 👉 / mythvision
Instagram: 👉 / dereklambert_7
Discord: 👉 / discord
===========================
👉👉 Checkout Our Other RUclips Channel:
www.youtube.com/ @mythvisionclips
👉👉 Checkout MVP Courses to find new and upcoming online courses:
mvp-courses.com/
===========================
#Preterism #mythvision #MythVisionPodcast #mvp #dereklambert
Correction! Glenn Hill is still alive, I'm not sure where I heard this. I may have conflated a person who had died when I was at Michael Miano's church 9 years ago.
Check out MVP Courses
www.mvp-courses.com
Second, we want to test the claims of truth through the test of rationality. Is it logically consistent, or does it speak with a “forked tongue”? We examine the content of Scripture to see if it is coherent. That’s another test of truth. One of the most astonishing things, of course, is that the Bible has literally thousands of testable historical prophecies, cases in which events were clearly foretold, and both the foretelling and the fulfillment are a matter of historical record. The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature.
Derek! From a ex christian view what’s your thoughts on the saying once saved always saved? I’m not a christian I’m just curious.
@@caleb10099 Well I’m not a universalist John 3.16f John 11:25-26.
And I do not believe once saved always saved and that is a personal decision in one’s life how they walk with God and between them and God.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Attention all sheep Jesus power warning it is intense last 30 minutes ❤
Explaining the Bible the Greek way is a classic mistake.
"this generation shall not pass till all these things take place" ....these were the people he was talking to not the people 2000 years later.
Exactly. And Revelation was written for the 7 churches in Asia at the time. Heck, it even says so in Chapter 1 of Revelation!
yes sir and since the churches are gone would suggest Jesus did return, and saving twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel would be impossible today. NERO was likely antichrist and revelations was written in 60's not 90's.@@openingshift7070
The genea he was referring to has still not passed awsy. Genea =
fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
@@paulthomson8798 40 years is widely excepted as a generation.....within that time the things Jesus said took place, it seems Babylon the great was ancient Jerusalem and the temple....it only took a generation from when he said that to the time no stone was left unturned on that temple.....Josephus Flavius wrote about those things, listen to his account of the fall of Jerusalem.....amazing
@@paulthomson8798 You just proved his proof. (You ALWAYS finds ways to lie)
For those interested, I reached out to Derek this morning asking him to set up a debate between Mr. Hartke and myself. Derek did contact Hartke but he said he was not interested in debating me, since it would be a "no win" situation for him.
Well, I fully agree that he would lose such a debate, but I find it unfortunate that he is unwilling to engage in a debate after coming online and mocking, ridiculing and condemning preterism.
Don, I encourage you to kindly press the issue, as a respectful dialogoue on the topic would do tremendous good for skeptics and believers alike... In Christ my brother
Many like Hartke online Hit and Run.
@@OobucknutoO You might contact Derek and ask him to urge Mr. Harkte a bit more. After watching some more of that program, I assuredly would love an exchange!!
I second this. I also found their arguments muddled - some applied to FP-specific concepts, but others conflated FP concepts with simple Biblical concepts, such as the meaning of death in Genesis (it’s not FP’s who “redefined” it - simply look at St. Paul and Christ himself). Overall it was a sloppy presentation and I think a debate would give them an opportunity to clarify their arguments, so it would be win-win.
@@ResisttheNWO He’s had some good guests who specialize in Nag Hammadi scholarship, which is of interest to me. But I think he might do better to slow down and let them speak more because his own conclusions tend to be sort of shallow and poorly supported. For all I know he’s a genius and just isn’t the most articulate in front of a camera - I kind of stutter on camera myself. I’m not going to bash the guy, I appreciate what he’s doing. We’re all critics! At any rate I value this channel mostly for his guests but he’s on a journey and I don’t fault him for sharing where he’s at. It was the “Gnostic” Gospels that sparked my interest in Christianity, and less orthodox outlets like this were more comfortable for me at that point in my journey - God works in mysterious ways, and surely He’s at work here too!
It is a hallmark of youth to feel you have discovered Truth that no one else has seen-
2020 started me on the journey of self reflection and determination of my beliefs; not my parent's beliefs, nor society's beliefs. It has been a 3 year unraveling of a Christian lifetime of 73 years. Your channel, books, and other channels on deconstruction have been so helpful to my application of critical thinking skills to the Bible and the history of mythology, gods, and cultural viewpoints. Thank you for your channel. It helps to open my mind.
It’s so fascinating that this type of content unravels Christian faith for some. Buddhism, Gnosticism, esoterica, that was what eventually led me to Christianity and then the Bible led me to Catholicism. It seems many folks have the reverse experience! Thanks for sharing. God bless you on your journey
@workmansong
How could the Bible possibly lead you to Catholicism since many of the important Catholic doctrines are not even biblical?
I have had to do the same thing, but it freeing
This!!! 2020 did it for me too… It was like my eyes really open for the first time in nearly 40 years!😮
My observation as a Christian and as new to (this depth of) this subject: I think it's possible to intellectualize yourself into becoming too skeptical and injuring your simple faith, due to the inexhaustible and overwhelming amount of content involved. Remember that it is not by the will of man or will of the flesh that we enter into and see the kingdom of God, and we must be (remain) as a child in our belief. I think eschatology, like so many other biblie topics (free will vs calvinism for example) offers information but does not explain apparent inconsistencies. And I think it is kept mysterious for a reason. The key for me is to accept the major doctrinal truths (salvation thu Jesus, a resurrection, a judgement, a heaven, eternal life with God, the moral law, love, etc) without all the details about how it hangs together so as not to become discouraged, and I think the key to this is to maintain a relationship with God., Who will show Himself to you as you continue to seek Him.
This is excellent and true. Thank you.
Yes it is so much better to not look behind the curtain. Might find something that upsets you.
@@timothyrogers1964if you look behind the curtain and find "something that upsets you", then maybe you were never meant to be here, like the man in the parable who was found at the wedding who didn't belong. Only "His children" will look behind the curtain with the faith of Job and trust Him - "though He sley me, I will not turn from Him!"
I 110% agree!
@@timothyrogers1964 My point is the scriptures are veiled to some extent and can appear to conflict, and that God will not answer every question you might have. Further, no prophetic scripture was ever fulfilled the way people/believers expected. Yet we must (not close our eyes as you suggested I espouse) continue in the knowledge and grace om our faith without frustrating ourselves through endless and futile over analysis. NO ONE understands it all, right?
Preterism is the truth! Love it! Jesus did exactly what he said he would. Amazing!
Preterism is a weak & convenient approach to the bible
@@wesleygordon1645 Maybe in your little opinion. The truth of preterism is a truth of the Bible, which is alive and powerful sharper than a two edged sword! It can't be proven wrong!
You are going to get what you believe.
@@kimmykimko Amen! Cannot wait!
2 Thessalonians 2:1
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
Derek, "Jerusalem ruled Jack-diddly-squat." I hope I have the opportunity to use that quote in casual conversation.
Were you expecting ancient literature to read like a book in 2023?
It's so sad to see people loose their faith over ignorance! MOstly from RUclips.
Cool. I was just wondering how I was going to find your older podcast on this subject. This did the job very nicely.
Matt is an awesome guest.
These two look like they stepped directly out of the pages of the latest edition of “Beards and Flannel”.
🤤 🥵
And that's a problem?
You know who else dresses like that? Lumberjacks.
😂
Mmmmmmm yummy.
When Jesus come back where will he go first?🤷🏽♂️😜
I agree with everything, where I have a problem is with REV.11 and the City that was going to be destroyed by the lord, it was jerusalem, so it throws a wrench in the whole rome is babylon thing...
Yes their theory falls apart when they say that the Beast seven heads represent the seven hills of Rome. That makes the Beast Rome while at the same time claim the Whore, the Great city Babylon represent Rome. At the end that Rome destroyed Rome . Seem fallacy.
That city is called Sodom and Egypt. If Jerusalem was Babylon, why not call her Babylon here? It throws no wrench in anything. Jerusalem was cooperating with the whore of Babylon, Rome.
Rome, a non-Israelite nation destroyed Jerusalem and is called Babylon, just as the nation of Babylon destroyed Jerusalem the first time.
@@MythVisionPodcast you said yourself that the great city that the lord Jesus was crucified would have been Jerusalem not Rome. The author doesn't reference any other "great city" other than Jerusalem. The issue is you claiming Rome as the Beast destroyed Rome the Harlot. Forcing the seven caesars hating their own city Rome and destroyed her. Which never happened.
Could you talk with an expert about the chariots in the skies that Josephus, taccidus, and multiple other historians mention? Ive heard it brought up in regard to preterism.
He has nothing.
I once pointed out to a Christian who said Jesus was coming back soon the bit in Matthew 16:27-28 where Jesus told his disciples that some of them would live to see that happen. The guy's response was that people lived longer in olden times according to the Bible, so how did I know that some of those disciples weren't still alive?
Most Christians are unqualified to answer biblical questions.
🤦🏾♂️
The proof against it is that we don’t have 2000+ year old people walking around. Plus, Adam died at 930. If lifespan decreased over time due to the fall, why would some guy live another thousand years longer?
Mormonism teaches that some of those disciples are still alive among us today, anonymously and secretly among us. That the Heavenly Father has unnaturally or supernaturally extended their lifespan.
Guess what? Matt.24:30? Is not the 2,nd coming!!!; Jesus was going after the covenant breakers from Matt 23, no more no less. So get off that high horse
heretical idea that a 2nd coming happened in 70 a d. Nothing could be farther from the truth!!!!
6:40 How can you say that Jerusalem was not Babylon? That's the most obvious piece in the puzzle!
💯 Jerusalem is mystery Babylon revealed According to multiple scriptures from the old testament and the new testament. The Dragon the whore road on was Rome , the Pharisees told Pilate that they had no King but Ceasar ( God was supposed to be their King ). Daniel 9 points to the end of sin , after the son of man would die when the temple was destroyed that scripture was fulfilled in that moment because without a temple no offerings for sin could be made. People will turn on you real quick for showing them this at least most Christians and say your anti semitic. Manipulation is a tool religious folks like to use all the time no surprise.
@@generalgen1542 Amen.
Derek and his guest are against Full Preterism and that's why they try to claim Rome is the Beast as well the Woman that rides the Beast. Crazy way to interpret that scripture.
Usa. Is Babylon if isreal is babylon of which is destroyed in one hour during the tribulation. how is it nations gather to destroy them. Are y'all Jehovah witness? Meaning what bible are ya referencing?
@@rogerbeck3560 you got it, they don't want to be honest because they see how powerful the correct interpretation of scriptures is. They also cater to the Jewish crowd and won't declare the truth of first century Jerusalem's and Israel's depravity and judgment.
You two would legitimately experience cognitive dissonance if you tried to believe Preterist ideas, because they don’t fit with the cognitive framework you already have in place. But for people for whom Preterism was their first theological framework, assuming it’s a version that is internally coherent, they will not feel cognitive dissonance because they are willing to adapt to what they learn.
Although, note, that intellectual growth probably always involves cognitive dissonance as new information comes in, which we trust, but it doesn’t fit our prior mental model, and so we must do rational intellectual work to resolve the contradiction. It’s called being human.
Cognitive dissonance is not the problem; how you deal with it is the real issue.
Derek @ you might not reply to this , but if what you claim that the Whore, Great city Babylon is to be understood as Rome just how does that work when your reference was of the Beast seven heads as the seven hills of Rome.
You mean to tell me that the Beast and the ten kings hated the Whore and eat her and sat her on fire. So Rome destroyed Rome ? 😮
I don't see the logic in that interpretation. Help me out.
Oc israel
Are you going to invite Don Preston or another FP on for another hour long session to listen to them?
Put me in, coach. I am ready to play!
@jimfisher1140 Probably not....guys like these are the "armchair quarterbacks" of eschatology! 🙄🤦♂️
futurism is FANTASY.....preterism is FACT
Futurism is what God calls prophecy. Preterism is nothing more than arrogant heresy.
One problem with preterism is that DEATH is never defeated. Both spiritual and physical death continue for eternity
@@tdmartin7 Exactly. "What will be the signs of your coming, and of the end of the world?" The end of the world - and death being swallowed up in victory - did NOT happen in AD70. It's astounding we even have to point this out.
@@jeremiahjohnson7741the end of the old world did happen. With the old world covenant passing away.
this was good. well explained and honest
BRAINWASHING MAKES THOSE HEBREW MYTHS SEEM REAL, CUPCAKE.
Wow, I love this channel! I never became a Full Preterist, I familiarized myself with FP after no longer calling myself a Christian. The various attempts at salvaging Christianity whether that be via Full Preterism or allegorical and esoteric interpretation is all so very interesting to me.
You obviously never knew Christ personally , thinking you did and actually knowing you do are two different things
@@mikemarcil9184cope why is it that if someone looses faith they were never a true believer yet there are people that have given their lives to Christianity then later lost faith and you keyboard Christian’s have the never to invalidate peoples life experience. You demonize people for using their intelligence.
Getting to the truth is not "salvaging". Although because of the bad doctrine propagated by the American churches I myself feel at times I have to put a qualifier on saying I'm a Christian. It has nothing to do with the truth of scripture, but Churchristianity. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. God's word is faithful and true.
Derek. According to GWF Hegel, the proof that God did not MEAN that Adam and Eve would "die that day," is the claim of the Serpent in Gen. 3:5. It is EXACTLY what God later says in Gen. 3:22, namely: "God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil!” He's right! God said the same thing WORD FOR WORD. So -- the Serpent and God had a conspiracy going. According to Hegel, God played a TRICK on Adam and Eve. Only this TRICK could create Free Will -- the first Free Choice in human history. Hegel was so cool.
Mesopotamia dietys worked in slightly antagonist tandem like this in Genesis 3.
And having Jacob as a patriarch is akin to claiming Bugs Bunny as your dad. Tricksters all the way down.
When I hear God and trick in the sentence I think of the speech in the devil's advocate about God. Now I want to watch that movie 😂
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
Regarding Adam, and the death he died that day, why would the author write in such a way as to present a failed prophecy? It is more logical to assume the author did not intend to define death the same way we do. Based on the culture, I would tie the death to their shame and honor society. The scripture is replete with examples of sin equating to relational or covenantal death. The story of the Prodigal son, for example. "My son was dead and is alive again".
And also genocide. Those people got turned into dead and it had nothing to do with social death. It was, y'know, genocide.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
Surely, to be cast out from the supernatural presence of a Father God who loves and provides for us, and into the physical world of laboring for our needs and struggling to survive, not to mention all the suffering -- would very well be considered "death"?!
@vladgor4099 no where in scripture are we told or even implied that this is a 'Formula for the Interpretation of Prophetic Time'. Yet, so many people have adopted this methodology which doesn't make sense when you stay consistent with it = because now you have Jesus being in the grave for 3000yrs!...🤨
@@ShadowofTheAlmighty No, don’t put words in my mouth.
You can understand the meaning of the words by the outcome. Adam and Eve did not die that same human day. But they did die that same Gods day. So we can understand what was meant wasn’t a human day.
Jesus died and was dead for 3 human days and rose on the third day. So we can understand what was meant.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to make this confusing lol Scripture explains scripture and it’s very simple.
I read the book of revelation and the war of judeans by joseph. There are so many similarities between these Brooks that it’s impossible to not see the accomplishment of the propheties contained in the book of the revelation and the apocalyptic chapters of the gospel. A full preterism make more sens in that frame work
Hey, tell me more please
Great. I love the clarity of information.
Fascinating guest, thank you!
Derek my brother this is straight fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Didn't get past the intro, sorry if you got there later. Genesis "would not die" means that people would live forever. Original sin made humans actually mortal. They died, God didn't say "die immediately".
Genesis 2:17 says "...and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die." (YLT)
מוֹת תָּמוּת
dying you die - that's what the Hebrew says, in warning.
(Nice comment, good sir)
@@AnHebrewChild days were really long in Genesis ;-)
@@AnHebrewChild The form of the Hebrew demands a death that very day. God did not say "You will become mortal./" He did not say "You will begin to die." He did not say you will die 900 years later.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
@@AnHebrewChild We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
This makes the Bible more like Greek Mythology. The gods live upstairs in the clouds. The ancient understanding of the firmament is needed (the dome, the flat earth). When I listen to this biblical stuff it is like the world of a fantasy novel. No wonder they threw out references to God's wife.
Yes.
Christianity is the biggest fantasy fiction cult in history.
The flat Earth is not biblical, it's a misinterpretation by those who don't read it correctly.
The Greeks gods were on mount Olympus which is on Earth from what I remembered.
God does not live in or on the clouds, but according to the scriptures he lives in different realm which my guess its beyond the universe.
1st Heaven is sky
2nd Heaven is space
3rd Heaven is God's Dwelling
@@justadude-qr1bz
Everytime one Christian disagrees with another believer they say its misinterpretation by the other.
Perhaps misinterpretation is all there is, well that and cherry picking.
@SuzumeShimmer☆ I disagree with you on that.
For example, Matthew 24 when Jesus says 2 man will be in the field one will be taken the other left, 2 women will be grinding at the mill, and one will be taken the other left.
The popular view says they are being rapture up which means a person is tooken to heaven by Jesus, but thats cherry picking.
But when a person reads this text in full context Jesus never mention anything close to that.
To keep it short Jesus says like in Noah's days people were tooken(killed) by the flood.
It will be the same at the coming of Jesus, those who are taken are killed off and those who stay live like how Noah lived.
Truth is what it is despite anybodies opinions. A person must let the scripture speak for itself.
@@justadude-qr1bz
The scripture never speaks for itself. It is always interpreted through the individual mind of each person who reads it. And your comment offers more evidence of that.
Derek is on 🔥! Your guest is great too!
Gotta start at the beginning: The Parousia by James Stewart Russell.
One problem with preterism is that DEATH is never defeated. Both spiritual and physical death continue for eternity
I so thought you 2 were in 2 different locations until he just took those books from you😂
To be fair, Jerusalem was built on 7 hills as well.
Give me the primary source for this. Also, show me anywhere when Jerusalem ruled the kings of the earth?
Revelation 17
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
Rome did rule over the kings of the earth.
@@MythVisionPodcast It’s common knowledge that Jerusalem is said to be built on 7 hills. There is a Wikipedia article called “List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills” which lists the names of those hills. As for Jerusalem ruling the earth, that’s a spiritual interpretation made by many who’ve studied Revelation. Jerusalem is where the temple was - it is the city where God resided. The book of Revelation is a revelation of the spiritual realm, not the physical realm. We don’t need a revelation of the physical realm - we can already see that ourselves.
The great city "WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED" = cannot be Rome!!!....🙄🤦♂️😮💨
Did you get the book titled: "House Divided; Bridging the Gap in Reformed Eschatology"? By David Green, Edward Hassertt, and Michael Sullivan. Second Edition.
Full preterism-or hyperpreterism-is the belief that all prophecy in Scripture has already happened.
The only missing parts are names, dates and locations prior to the events and not added later.
Rome makes sense on the surface. But Jerusalem can make sense internally.
Israel many times is referred to as the harlot because they chose to love idols/gods instead of God. Apostate Israel
Israel is referred to as a woman like babylon
Revelation 17:7 the beast carry’s the woman.
Matthew 22:7-8
Parable of the wedding feast
Daniel 9:26
The people (romans) of the prince (Jesus)
Matthew 23 as well
Jesus told them it's not fit for a prophet to die outside Jerusalem, Babylon the great is the killer of the prophets.....has to be Jerusalem with holy temple, Danial when king of north enters into the land of decleration was Rome just after defeating king of south Egypt.
How does "Rome make sense on the surface"? It says this is "the great city [where our Lord was crucified] - no matter how you swing it, it's impossible to say that Jesus was crucified in "Rome".😶
8:02 “that’s why I don’t understand why they don’t just call themselves Gnostics” salient point I’ve pulled from the Nag Hammadi myself in my eschatological studies.
I'm not sure if you know or not but gnostic isn't a religion.
It's first hand lived experiential knowing filtered through the actual PROCESS of discernment.
There are many religions that claim to be gnostic.
It's as opposed to faith and book knowledge.
@@Paul-cr7qm sure, you’re probably referring to gnosis itself. Nonetheless Gnosticism is still a category of spiritual teachings.
@@realSeanMcMahon sweet. A lot of people don't seem to understand that I've found.
Glen Hill is very much still with us. I spoke with him last Sunday.
Derek, would any of the scholars you've interviewed be able to confirm if in ancient times, people or rulers chose locations based on the topology and that building a city in an area with 7 hills was somehow spiritually significant. Could it be that when Constantin wanted to build a "new Rome" in the eastern part of the Roman Empire (because most of the economic life of the Roman Empire in the 4th century AD was centered in the eastern half of the Empire), he finally selected a spot on the Bosporus called Byzantium. The reason he selected this spot to be the "New Rome" was because it was a small village also located on "Seven Hills." This made "New Rome" as a City of Seven Hills." Any validity to that? Perhaps this is why Jerusalem was selected (even if that reason is not recorded in the Bible)?
This question is dope, I am really interested in this question Too.
A good question
I’m reading a lot of comments of people trying to explain Yahweh, Adam and how prophesies in the Bible are not failed it shows in real time how cognitive dissonance takes over some believers and double down.. as a former fundamentalist Christian it took me a lot of research critical thinking and time to realize that what I believed in was in fact False…
As an Ex Baptist, once I learned Hebrew, I knew the SCRIPTURE did not line up. TYPES AND SHADOWS, SOUNDED LIKE BS.
You don't seen to really understand what cognitive dissonance means, friend.
I like the role call of books that probably didn’t read.
Bible frappe: building an argument from a dozen or more snippets taken from any books or verses that can be construed to support what youre saying.
This is the history of Christianity, and it never seems to end.
What a great show you guys!
The proper translation/interpretation is: "The day you eat of it, that day you have sealed your fate."
That is true and also a day = 1k yrs also. And no man has lived to 1k. Adam and those before the flood died around 950yrs. So in that view Adam did die that day.
Thanks for the share ….. ✝️
Derek trying to say that even by being a Full Preterist, he was some how right or "smart"
Hey, Derek, set up a debate for me with Mr. Hartke. How about it???
I think he should have you on the channel and other Preterist, he's had a couple other Christians on.
As Derek gets out all these books on Full preterism his guest starts to look nervous. No sane person should have that many books on full preterism
LOL! Yeah, I saw it too. From thoroughly enjoying Derek's intro, to something of an "oh sht" kind of face.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Union with the Divine (see the Glossary entry under that word, for here it is used rather differently to its etymological definition) is essentially just a matter of living one’s life according to the principle of non-harm (“ahiṃsā”, in Sanskrit), for when one is living a PERFECTLY-HARMLESS existence, one is automatically elevated to a state of being that is akin to one who is (purportedly) in union with the Supreme Self (or “God”).
Holy based.
@@Yutope464, kindly repeat that in ENGLISH, Miss.☝️
Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱
@@ReverendDr.Thomas Oy, calm, sir. I'm literally agreeing with you. I'm a guy, as well.
And, yes, I am a vegan.
@@Yutope464, in your own words, define “VEGANISM”. ☝️🤔☝️
@@ReverendDr.Thomas Well, I'd define it as the idea that we ought to, as far as possible and practicable, live in such a way as to avoid animal suffering, such as abstaining from consuming animal products, using things tested on animals, etc.
1. We are, since 1900, seeing the evolution of Christianity. Just like all the movements councels and denominations of the past.
2. Expand on what the Stoics were believing about fervent heat and what the author of 2 Peter 3 was believing.
Why y’all scared to debate Don??? 🤔🤔🤔 You’d think if u were so confident to walk away from the truth then you’d be confident to debate your case
One problem with preterism is that DEATH is never defeated. Both spiritual and physical death continue for eternity
This was a close competition, but I think Derek took the trophy for best flannel shirt on this episode.
Well, both have dark buttons…that’s good.
Derek has one pocket unbuttoned…that’s a point off.
Mathew has a tragically clashing green t-shirt …that’s just transgressive!
Derek’s black t-shirt helps with the overall look.
(I fear that Derek’s shirt is …I hate to say it…fluffy polyester…but I don’t know.)
So, given all that..I agree with you.😂
It’s interesting how similar interests led us to different paths - Gnosticism led me to Protestant Christianity; preterist studies led me to Catholicism. While I don’t agree with your conclusions, I certainly remember having these very concerns and questions against preterism, I suppose we simply found different ways to resolve them!
Just curious are you currently Catholic?
There is no way we missed it and living on a heavenly earth. If Jesus came already, then maybe it's been 1000 yrs and Satan's been released and that's why the world is horrible now. We also under the new heaven and earth, we wouldn't have any illness
@@N81999 yes, Catholic
@@lisawilson1146 the 1,000 years concept comes from the Enoch material - it refers to an eternal period in which the saints reign with God, and it should be noted that they reign from heaven. You see this in Daniel 7 and Rev. 21; people have a problem with the latter, since many English translations say that Satan will be released the thousand years are finished, as if the thousand years has a termination point. That’s incorrect. The proper sense of the Greek is that Satan would be released ONCE the thousand years came to pass - sort of like “Mom, I’m hungry” “We’re not eating til after Grandma gets here.” It doesn’t mean they’re waiting til after Gramma arrives and THEN leaves. The apocryphal Epistle of Barnabas, written after AD 70, speaks of the thousand years as having come to pass.
Did/doing a whole series on the millennium here: ruclips.net/video/gQCkvs7eo4k/видео.html
@@realSeanMcMahon isnt Catholicism exclusive against full preterism because they hold to a future physically bodily return of Christ and resurrection of the dead?
I think one of the worst things the early church did when they were adopting the texts of the New Testament was to include the book of Revelation.
I converted to Preterism. It makes the most since. Daniels 70 weeks happened. No 2000 year gap bey year 69 and 70
How do you explain the following regarding the "land promise" (Inheritance)?
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
The promise to Abraham was not conditioned on the behavior of the children of Israel. The Law of Moses has no bearing on the promise. But...once under the law of Moses, they get kicked out from time to time, and as the following shows, God brings them back to the Promised Land (Deuteronomy 30:1-7. Both the Old Covenant, which begins in Exodus 20, and the New covenant, which begins at the death of Jesus, has no bearing on the land promise. All because the promise was given some 400 years before the law, aka old covenant. See also Deuteronomy 30:1-7 then Ezekiel 36. This is much as we know what GRACE is all about. Do you get to go to heaven based on your behavior? Or Grace, lest you should boast?
@@chapmaned24 why did you deflect from my comment? Can you explain why Daniel prophesied the exact time when the end ( of the old covenant) would be. 70 x 7 is 490 years and historically Jesus' era was that EXACT time. The destruction of Jerusalem followed in 70 AD. Now answer my comments first. Then I will respond to your comments.
@kathycushman6326 I didn't deflect at all. Obviously, you and I have a completely different take on Daniel. But I'm going to set that aside because I'm not concerned with Daniel at this point. 70 ad destruction of the temple is irrelevant. In order to get to the MEAT of preterism, is that you have to go to the beginning, and the beginning is not the destruction of the temple. Preterism's whole PREMISE is wrong. Another term for preterism is covenant eschatology, which proclaims that physical Israel lost out due to disobedience, calling the Jews APOSTATE ISRAEL, and the church takes over, becoming spiritual Israel. But... and this is a huge but... the promise to Abraham about the Jews inheritance of that land is NOT conditioned on the behavior of the children of Israel. Preterism falls flat on its face based on Galatians 3: 18. Their whole premise is in the toilet. You've heard the term "Old Covenant Israel"? There is no such thing because the promise wasn't based on the old covenant. It wasn't based on the behavior of the Jews. Genesis 15 is the promised land. Genesis 17 is the promised seed. But Preterism hasn't figured out that the promise is BOTH carnal AND spiritual, at the same time. Galatians 3:16 sheds light on that.
Carnal
a. PROMISED LAND = Small piece of real estate in the middle east.
b. PROMISED SEED = Isaac
c. The seed of Isaac gets the promised land.
SPIRITUAL
a. Promised Land = Heaven
b. Promised Seed = Jesus
c. The seed of Jesus gets heaven
Both are true, and neither can be annulled, all because the promise was not conditioned on the behavior of anyone in either. Not by the works of the law, lest any man should boast. We call that grace in that same promise.
So the Jews get land, we get heaven. I've got a lot more to say, but that would take too long. But when you consider what I said here, you will see that Preterism's 70 weeks is trash. So is their take on the anti-christ. See Matthew 22:41-42. The Jews will never believe in a gentile messiah. There is just too many falsehoods in Preterism.
@@kathycushman6326 If I could, I'd like to bring up one major thing that couples preterists mindset, in that the Jews rejected Jesus. Yes, they did. But why?
When Jesus was on the cross, he said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Why did they know not? Was it not prophesied that Jesus would die as a sacrifice to save sinners by the blood of Jesus? Wasn't the mission of Jesus that cross? If they didn't kill Jesus, would you be saved? And they killed the prophets...what is their belief about false prophets? I'm not saying that they were false prophets...but they certainly thought that they were...
Deuteronomy 18:20
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Why did the Saul, before he was the Apostle Paul, kill Christian Jews?
Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
That is not judicial blindness, either. It is not their fault that they are blind. It is not their fault that they killed the prophets. It is not their fault that they killed Jesus. However, being under the law, they get punished...hence the famous preterist word...DESOLATE. They were desolate in the 70 year captivity in Babylon, too. But they still came back (Deuteronomy 30:1-7)
When Jesus came on the scene, he said...
Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Sight to the blind...
John 9:39-41
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Now, we also have Ezekiel 36 to contend with, where God BRINGS THE JEWS BACK TO ISRAELfor GOOD...if you notice the following:
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
Someday, those blinders will come off. Do you remember the story of Joseph and his brothers, who threw him in a pit, but in the end, Joseph went from the pit to the palace. And, Joseph's brothers had no clue who he was until Joseph revealed himself, and he forgave them all. Hence all Israel (blind Jews) shall be saved.
Joseph and his brothers are a prophetic story of Jesus and the Jews who killed him. He forgives them for everything. For what they meant for evil, God meant for good...to save many. They are blind due to no fault of their own. Therefore, they are not "apostate Israel".
Anyway, contrast Deuteronomy 29:4, their blindness, to Romans 15:21for Gentiles:
21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
They are NOT "IN CHRIST" THEREFORE, there is a huge difference between Jew and Gentile.
Someday, God will unblind them. He has to.
@@chapmaned24you misunderstand the position that preterists take on Israel. We don't discard Israel. Only the covenant is replaced. Ephesians 2 says gentiles are FELLOW CITIZENS with Israel. Other passages say there is neither jew nor Greek. We all are equally under the blood of Jesus. Because of the new covenant. It's somewhat hurtful to be misunderstood about these matters. Abraham is the father of ALL Christians . I have been in both camps...dispensationalism and Preterism. I find that if I am dogmatic in my position than I am not willing for the holy Spirit to work in me, help me search scriptures and grow in a deeper understanding . As far as the land inheritance for Israel .....even if you convinced me that they will get the land ultimately it's way more important that the Jews come to Christ, not inherit land. Israel broke the covenant with God over and over and over . God said they were harlots. He finally divorced them and the remnant that still believed became the first century church . Jews were the first Christians. The promise of the final sacrifice of the Lamb was the last sacrifice and salvation was for all men
Derek, your point that "the elements" [stoicheia in Greek] 2 Peter 3 have to be physical/material doesn't line up with how the same word is used in the rest of the Bible. It's used a total of 7 times and every time it is used outside of the Bible passage in question (2 Peter 3) the word is translated as "elementary principles", "basic principles", "elementary powers", or "spiritual powers".
Another reason we know Peter is not predicting the material world ("the elements") would melt in fire is that Jesus told Peter & the rest of the disciples, "let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains" when the end comes. Running to the mountains does no one any good when the entire material world is melting!! LOL . . . . (you can find these words of Jesus in Matthew 24 : 16)
So the fact Jesus told people to run to the mountains when the end comes is a HUGE hint that he did not teach his disciples (Peter being one of them) the entire world would melt when the end would come.
Again great points let me add another “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.”
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 KJV
Some were saying at that time the day had already come how could they think they day had come if their understanding of the day was the literal elements of heaven and earth melting, they like those elements would’ve been completely dissolved, so even though these individuals got the timing wrong they clearly new the correct context and nature of the coming.
@@lemnisgate8809 Yes! Yes! and Yes!
You're making a lot of sense :D
If the coming of Jesus and the end of the age includes the literal elements of heaven and earth melting, then why would Jesus tell the disciples during the Olivet Discourse that those who are in Judea are to flee to the mountains when they see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel? Those mountains would melting too!
Especially love how they take Genesis, written in Hebrew, and just use the English word "day" to explain their view. Less than 1 minute in and I'm convinced 😢
Its not that people think Christ is going to return, its that the scriptures teach that Christ is going to return. Isaiah the prophet speaks of a time that has no historical fulfillment.
How can comments be from six months ago if this is live now? I thought Matthew said he was not teaching this week. My apology for giving the wrong reply about MN teaching this week given in the morning meeting.
If you don't know Greek, read the YLT Young-s Literal Translation to see all of the instances of "about to" that the other translations, including the KJV have ignored. Eye opener!
Also, everyone has it in their mind that Jesus spoke about the "end of the world" when he said no such thing. The word translated to world in the KJV has since been corrected to say "age". Jesus never mentioned an end of the world, only the end of the old covenant age.
It’s not simply “scripture interprets scripture,” rather it’s understanding that NT authors quoted the OT and that revelation is progressive.
Good talk, thanks for sharing. I think it's more important to familiarize ourselves with the text, than to try to interpret it's meaning. I believe a better approach would be to keep abreast of world events and persons involved, and keep an open mind about the actual fulfillment, rather than allowing any interpretation to become set in mind. Setting our mind on a particular topic, by deciding that prophetic fulfillment must be this way or that way, limits our ability to see the real deal when it really occurs. We would not be the first people to do that, it's blinded the minds of many who had it "all figured out." When things don't go the way we've been sure they would go, we start pushing dates back. Somehow, we can not comprehend what Scripture means when it reports that God says our thoughts are not His thoughts, best we can do is know the text and keep an eye on world events. Trust in Yahuah and Yahusha, His Annointed.
He’s not coming back. So why not cancel religion now, then if he ever does reappear, worry about it then?
Ironically this is the most sense and smart Derek has ever sounded to me, even down to when he said it was a about a divine council when it is written “let us make God In our image” like he said very Mesopotamian
Matt is awesome. Derek, if you ever need a break ask him to wear contacts and do some podcasting for you. Half of us won't spot the difference.
He is obviously correct about the best option for failed prophecies being hybrid reinterpretation with partial fulfillment. This is the essence of Christianity after all. That is why Jesus will make a second coming - he didnt completely fulfill the prophecies the first time despite the gospels best attempts with fulfillment citations.
I would have loved to hear about prophets with properly fulfilled prophecies as an option.
It is also a great shame the Adam and Eve story is not understood properly. When God tells Adam not to eat to fruit for he will die that day, note that this is a warning not a prediction. God is not predicting Adam will eat from the fruit. There is just no point in God giving a man He just created a dire outcome about his immediate death following a voluntary action he cant avoid.
As a parent you tell your child not to drink bleach or they'll die. They stupidly drink it. You take them to the hospital and they pump the stomach and the child survives. That does not make you a liar. Had you not intervened they would have died.
God does claim the fruit is poison. It is clear it gives knowledge of good and evil not kill. Gos also does not say eating the fruit will be immediately deadly, rather only on that day. Adam eats it and sees his new evil thoughts. God walks the garden daily. When God will approach Adam to talk to him Adam knows he will die because he is no longer pure enough.He is ashamed and afraid. He fashions clothes to insulate his thoughts from God but knows its futile, so he hides from the One who sees all. Fortunately for Adam God stops from approaching feigning ignorance, giving Adam a chance to repent. Adam blames God for giving him Eve. God had undergone an excessive exercise letting Adam select his own mate from all creation so there could be no way Adam could justify his sin by blaming God back, and here he does it nevertheless. After the punishment first thing God does is clothe Adam, so that his thoughts could have some insulation when God approaches to have a relationship with mankind.
God didnt lie about the warming. He saved Adam and Eve's lives from the natural consequences by transforming them with clothes (leather skin).
You're smoking some heavy stuff mister!
What if we had archeological and historical evidence of the events of the Bible. What would you believe?
They didn’t have a periodic table……
“Elements” didn’t mean molecules. It’s meant “aspects” of the culture.
Exactly, the elements of the old covenant system.
Two for one on the Lumberjack shirts?
Derek went for the discount beard tho
I don’t see antiSemitic in play if anyone refers to old Jerusalem as mystery Babylon. It has nothing to do with being Jewish,. Judaea/Jews
Looks like I was wrong. Full preterism goes back at least to the early church fathers. Tertullian (200 AD), Athanasius (326 AD), and Irenaeus all make clear that the prophecies of Jesus second coming were fulfilled in 70 AD and reference the completion of Daniel’s 70 weeks. Let me know if you need the references. Looks like FP is definitely not a recent invention guys.
The destruction of the temple in 70 AD is when both the good and the evil arise from the grave to be judged before God. The nature of resurrection is explained at 1 Corinthians 15:35-58 but people don't understand verse 52 where it says "and we will be changed" because they don't remember verse 36 and realize that in order to have your spiritual body be raised you must die first as we can clearly see.
I may have to make a video response to the Whore of Babylon part haha. I'm not a believer or a preterist, and while I acknowledge Rome can fit the description, I think on balance much more of the text makes sense, and the riddles on balance more expected, if the whore is Jerusalem. Also, while I think you're right Rome is taken by the majority of critical scholars, my sense is we are probably dealing with a Q/no-Q type situation. Several well respected critical scholars have taken the view the whore is Jerusalem. Your wording makes it seems as though its an outlandish position. It certainly is not. The question of course is, which is more likely. Keep up the good work brother!
Rome never hated Rome or Destroyed Rome 😅
I always took you for someone who seemed level headed and researched without being dogmatic, though I took you as someone who was persuaded by Preterism. I ask that you look into the scholar Peter Oakes and what he has written on this. He sources everything as well as John Dominic Crossan with his book Render Unto Caesar and how the Sibylline Oracles and Revelation both validate Rome as the 7 hilled city as well as identifying Nero as a beast. Why would Roman Emperor's or a Roman emperor play a role as the beast? Weird that Rome plays any role negative in the scene. Preterism likes to posit that Jerusalem is the real culprit, however the nations who played a role in the hand of injustice against Israel or Judah through the mythical history of bible were all judged, yet FPist find it crazy that Rome would be viewed by this author as the whore and Babylon just like the first "non-Israelite" nation of Babylon who destroyed the Jews the first time.
Read these guys and consider a different perspective. The FPist dogma seems to have serious claws on anyone who swallows her pill.
I assume you're speaking about Roger?@@MythVisionPodcast This is something I've read extensively on, I'm not a preterist (or a christian), and think on balance the evidence favors Jerusalem as the whore. But again, Rome is also an attractive explanation for her as well, so I would never rule that out
@@MythVisionPodcast thanks for the comment of being level headed. I'll also say that I've weighted all the evidence and would say that the reference of the great city Babylon points more toward Jerusalem than Rome. I would also challenge that the Beast of the sea with seven headed reference Rome or Nero. I do believe Rome is part of the Beast but just not all. For instance I prefer to read the seven headed are seven mountains than seven hills. Which are seven kings. In this each king would have a mountain kingdom of which five have fallen. When one tried to view seven Caesars it doesn't line up or has to omit some Caesars.
Then again chapter 11 , 16, 17 and 18 reference the great city. At the very first in chapter 11 the author lays the foundation of the city as Jerusalem. Keeping it consistent.
I take issue with your understanding of Genesis 2:16 and 2:17. The more literal translation from the Hebrew as provided by Professor Everest Fox in the Schocken Bible is: "(16) YHWH, God, commanded concerning the human, saying: From every tree of the garden you may eat, yes, eat, (17) but from the Tree of the Knowing of Good and Evil - you are not to eat from it, for on the day that you eat from it, you must die, yes die."
It would appear that Adam and Eve (and by extension the rest of humanity possibly) were to be immortal. They ate and eventually died.
Question to the author of the vid: when you were a believer, did you ever claim to “experience God/Holy Spirit/miracles”? If so, what do you think about them now?
The death God was talking about was spiritual death, which did occur the moment Adam and Eve sinned.
Context, context.
You can be physically alive while spiritually dead;
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
They don’t want to hear that, it’s the truth and a threat to the lies the sell to make their income.
Gal.1:6-8, where is the line drawn on doctrine?
So Preterism, which hinges upon the idea that certain prophecies were already fulfilled, (prophecies you don't believe in) is rational? It seems to me that using Preterism as a basis for the journey of apostacy is a pretty bad starting point.
At 23:26 Matthew Hartke said, "... they [the Old Testament prophets] really didn't have any conception of an afterlife."
This is so easy to disprove :
In 2 Samuel 12 king David (who is also a prophet) said he would go to his dead son since his dead son will not return to him.
In 1 Samuel 28 king Saul consults a medium who brings up the spirit of the dead prophet, Samuel, to speak with king Saul. The text says king Saul knew it was Samuel. Then Samuel's spirit has a conversation with king Saul.
Daniel the prophet speaks about the resurrection in Daniel chapter 12 verse 2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
35:39 - Yep, that was quite a ramble! 😂
Imagine, one would rather lose one's Christian faith than let go of the sola scriptura dogma. It is preferrable to read all eschatology in the Bible as fulfilled in the Bible, and yet the Christian Covenant has an eschatological future hope for which the past biblical drama is typological.
Looking forward to Chris Hansen's To Catch a Preterist ;)
Sounds like the Entrapment Gosple
2 Peter 3:8
8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
If jesus visit hades and why he saves oonly patriarchs and what happen to the billions of souls?
I am a full preterist. Noting you said disproved it. Sorry
Agreed. It's humorous to me how they make themselves judge of the God of the Bible. I'm a partial preterist but on my way to full. The main concern is my relationship with Yeshua and abiding in Him. I love theology, but I also come to Him as a little child.
the devil tries desperately with all of his power to make The Most High's children lose faith, but Jesus Himself said, no one can pluck us from His hand. And the devil seethes at that. I also advise you to become non preterist sister. Israel back in the land is literally end time prophecy. And all the people coming against it.
the devil tries desperately with all of his power to make The Most High's children lose faith, but Jesus Himself said, no one can pluck us from His hand. And the devil seethes at that.@@sourclam904
@@Alexander-fy8ecthe promise to Israel in genesis 15:18 was already fulfilled - go and read these verses - Joshua 21:43-45 , 2 Samuel 8:3-4 , 1 Kings 4:20-21 , 1 Kings 8:56 , Nehemiah 9:7-8 & 24 .
One problem with preterism is that DEATH is never defeated. Both spiritual and physical death continue for eternity
"In the day you eat of this fruit... you will die:". God also said 1 day to Him is as a 1000 years to man. Adam lived 936 years. Next.
"...Apologetics is corrosive to forming any historical context...: (-paraphrasing), but yeah. Apologists are going to Apologize.
5:25 _The Great Controversy_ by EG White
The SDA church publishes abridged versions..
Yes, christ had come back like the word Parousia, his presence as witnessed by Stephen when he was being stoned to death he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God
For people who know the Bible well, know that it’s themes and the imagery of those themes start in Genesis and are repeated and develop throughout the entire Bible. The Bible is literature and as literature, it employs different genres and different literature devices such as imagery/figurative language. If you’re going to evaluate this book in a fair way, then you should evaluate it on the terms by which it’s Author/authors wrote it and not impose your own standard upon it. You are imposing a hyper literal interpretation to a book that wasn’t written to be understood in a hyper literal way, depending on genre of the portion you are reading. The biblical genre of prophecy employs both literal and symbolic language. Preterism is not inventing things and imposing the text as you claim. Preterism is simply reading prophecy in context and in the terms by which it was written and comparing it with the entire book. Revelation is a highly visual book and jam-packed with Old Testament prophecy. It’s jam-packed with Old Testament quotations and allusions and uses the language of the OT prophets. The reason why Revelation is hard to understand is because most of us are unfamiliar with the OT prophetic writings. But Revelation was written to an audience who was familiar with the OT and it’s language.
Jesus said he would return shortly and he did historically in 70 AD, just as he described. The majority of the church used to understand and embrace this until the dispensational movement of the 19th century and the publication of the Scofield Bible and its notes which introduced an entirely different hermeneutic than the church previously had. For whatever reason, the majority of the church embraced this false narrative and lens of how to read the Bible. The dispensational approach reads prophecy in a hyper literal way and imposes it’s prearranged system upon the text which is the way most of us have been conditioned to read prophecy. This makes prophecy extremely confusing to understand. More and more people are beginning to get back to reading the Bible on its own terms and the entire story begins to make much more sense. People are starting to read the Bible apart from the man-made dispensational systematic that created the confusion in the first place.
Amen!
She did sue the day she ate the apple. There was no death, then there was. Every part of her began dying that day.
They talk about if they eat from tree of good and evil they will certainly die. They said God lies but doesn't Gen 3:22 disprove he didn't lie.
He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever.
In Gen 2 did God mean if they ate they would die and not live forever?
I'm no expert and a non believer but just wondered about that.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close. We are on Gods clock, not our own.
This is an example of both sides looking at history through a glass darkly. This is what we should be asking: Why and when did Imperial authority begin to demand a consensus of Christian beliefs? This desire for consolidation and reconciliation would appear at first have started with Constantine, but it would have been preceded by the unexpected departure of certain aged and dominating institutions of the western empire that relied on polytheistic religion. Except for military events, this part of history immediately prior to the first officially Christian emperor is burned away, and offers a void of understanding. The forgotten events of this cultural tipping point is what we should be studying. Everything that comes after is a different world so to speak, the world of late antiquity into the middle ages, one that looks at the western empire as defeated, post-decadent and culturally subordinate to it's eastern half. This divided world that we've inherited has created the contextual debate of Christian origins
How do you explain the following regarding the "land promise" (Inheritance)?
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
The promise to Abraham was not conditioned on the behavior of the children of Israel. The Law of Moses has no bearing on the promise. But...once under the law of Moses, Deuteronomy 30:1-7, they get kicked out from time to time, but, God brings them back to the Promised Land. Both the Old Covenant, which begins in Exodus 20, and the New covenant, which begins at the death of Jesus, has no bearing on the land promise. The Old Covenant and the New Covenant ARE IRRELEVANT. All because the promise was given some 400 years before the law, aka old covenant. See also Deuteronomy 30:1-7 then Ezekiel 36. This is much as we know what GRACE is all about. Do you get to go to heaven based on your behavior? Or Grace, lest you should boast? You can't void a contract that is given WITHOUT CONDITIONS, like the one that ABRAHAM was given. Galatians 3:18.
Jesus came back in 70 AD and all I got was this tee-shirt !?!
NONE of His apostles wrote a book? Not even a Letter?
Or a pamphlet, even?
I actually got a response from Don Preston himself rebuking me for quoting Romans 8:21 - 24 as proof that Creation itself will be redeemed. He actually said to me that God will not restore "bugs or rocks."
Hey Derek! Have you ever dealt with the transcendental argument for the exsitence of God? Have you ever heard of Greg Bahnsen? I’d encourage that you check out some of the material Greg Bahnsen and other Presuppositional apologist have produced if you haven’t already.
I came again last night when my girlfriend started crying "Oh God!!!"
Every time I come on the clouds I just get reprimanded by the flight attendants.
Did you get the 0 face?
The Little Death!
@@chadtyrone He is 1900 years LATE. HE IS A VERY DEAD FAILED JEWISH MESSIAH.
@@chadtyrone I agree. It is odd that Christians love Isaiah. Yet in Isaiah says there is None before Me and None After to me. I am your Only Savior. And I DO NOT MY GLORY. NO JESUS.
During the days of Jesus, or 70ad, there was only 2 tribes in Israel.
So, how do you explain Ezekiel 36 and 37?
All Israelis go back to the land, not just a few. Then the 2 kingdoms reunite, in their respective tribes.
That has yet to happen. So how do you explain that?
Physical Israel was gathered back into the land during the time of Christ ministry the believing remnant of the two kingdoms were gathered spiritually in Christ their King. Acts tells “And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.”
Acts 2:5 KJV
What are you missing?
@@lemnisgate8809 No, they were not. And, furthermore, Ezekiel 36-37 isn't about BELIEVING Jews at all. Those Jews in Ezekiel 36-37 are LAW OF MOSES abiding Jews, HENCE THE NEED FOR A NEW 3rd TEMPLE. Regarding your Acts reference, the Jews in those days were REQUIRED to be in Jerusalem 3 times per year. However, that being said, TEN TRIBES were still in captivity. They couldn't make it, because they were all TIED UP! LOL. There were only two tribes in Israel, and they were from the Babylonian exile, Judah, and Benjamin...and...ONLY A FEW of those two tribes came back to Israel...Paul was from ROME! But MOST, like Paul, did not come back, except for the REQUIRED feasts. Now, getting back to Ezekiel 36-37, a JEWISH EARTHLY King will be set up once BOTH KINGDOMS re-unite. And again, they are the LAW OF MOSES abiding Jews, not believing Jews. And, THAT KING will be THE anti-Christ. He will be THEIR Savior that they have been waiting a long time for. THE anti-Christ MUST be a Jew, not a gentile dude from Rome. The PHARISEES already knows that THEIR CHRIST is a JEW...
Matthew 22:41-42
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
THE anti-Christ will have all the characteristics of JESUS, not NERO. He's a KING, he's gonna perform miracles, he's gonna proclaim to be God...and more!
How you people came up with NERO is beyond comprehension.
But I've got MORE evidence...Peter, in Acts 2, discusses THE SIXTH SEAL...did you know that? He does. But why?
Here you have unbelieving Jews making fun of believing Jews for speaking in tongues. But Peter talks about the 6th Seal...YEP...why?
Because the 144000, which is right after the 6th Seal, will ALSO be speaking in tongues after they get sealed with the Holy Spirit!
Pay attention to that 6th Seal, because even JESUS mentions it in all 3 end times chapters of his Olivette Discourse. THEN after that, what does he mention?
The rapture?
How can I be so sure? Because that's the LAST THING he talks about. He doesn't speak one word about any event of the 7th Seal of Revelation. And if you don't already know, the 7th Seal is THE DAY OF THE LORD, and THE WRATH OF GOD, and Jesus doesn't speak of it at all.
Now, please do some due dilligence and find where Jesus discusses the 6th Seal. THEN WHAT? RAPTURE...then what? NOTHING.
The 7th Seal is missing from his conversation.
Oh, and what about the word TAKEN and LEFT BEHIND? Remember, the BOAT had TAKEN Noah above the earth, while destruction took place below. In other words, because they missed the boat, they were left behind to drown.
Genesis 7:17 (ABOVE THE EARTH)
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up ABOVE THE EARTH.
We wont' have to worry about the MARK OF THE BEAST, because we won't be here for it.
Now, the 144000 plus new JEWISH converts will be raptured out in Revelation chapter 14.
The 7th Seal spans from chapter 8 to chapter 16. It's all over and done with in chapter 16. Beginning in chapter 17 is EXPLANATIONS.
Speaking of EXPLANATIONS...chapter 19...who do you suppose is that ARMY?
Revelation 19:14
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Revelation 19:19
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Now see Zechariah 14, where WE COME BACK WITH JESUS...as an ARMY...for what time frame? Armageddon, which is CHAPTER 16 of Revelation.
Zechariah 14:1-9
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
In case you didn't know, that's NOT A SPIRITUAL INVISIBLE RETURN, but a PHYSICAL one. And when he touches down, THEN Jesus is KING over all the earth, by defeating the anti-Christ, the EARTHLY King.
Now, what are YOU missing?
So the guest uses the word context, but the problem is that context needs to be defined and its not trivial.
So lets talk about some various texts, Ezekial. Daniel, Mark, Matthew. What is the author doing in the text and what is the context. I will spare the mesopotamian stuff.
Judges and Samuel 1. Mystics are seen as bad, religious practice is assocuated with a centralizing holy mountain (Gerezim) or its alternative (Shiloh). The context is the LBAC, the central actor are the rebellious tribes, who organize under their rebellion under the pretext of their old god El, and then confederate under the same god. What are their practices. Largely a ploy to the mountain god, a wide ranging umbrella god who shuns temples and firmalized constructions with metal, hewn stone and wood. The local observances are organized into beth and mysticism is in that context, mystics outside of that are like prostitutes outside of the temple. Ergo the context for the witch of Endor.
Kings: During the first temple period there are two kings, one over the larger tribes in Shechem and one over two tribes in Jerusalem. Loyalty is to the kings but observance is respectful of the overarching ruler, Egypt and Syria. At the end of the period the beth practices are seen as an undermining of the kings. Mystical practices occur within a set priesthood, but illegal practices occur just about everywhere. The priesthood is largely esoteric. For example Isaiah makes few futuristic prophecies.
Exile: Second Isaiah, Ezekial and the Danielic stories. The context now is that the kings are no more, there is a credence that judea can be restored, people seek visions of when the testoration occurs. People are looking for hope. The mystical cries of the pre-exilic prophet reverberate in the exilic community, as mysticism is no longer a threat yo the king.
The Seleucid Period. Judea is once again under the oppressive finger of a foriegn ruler, the loosely held books of daniel, some mystical, some just story are assembled and narrated. Once again their is a revolt against the leaders but there is no king, thus mystical prophesies are not a threat.
The book of Mark. I would defer to James Tabor on Marks motivations, though I would add that Mark is sampling a lost gispel Q and trying to build an esoteric magical divine figure out of sayings, tall tails and his storied imagination. The war is over, Jews are defeated, the sayings Jesus is falling, the mythical Jesus is rising.
The book of Matthew, a similar context but from a more Jewish persoective. I susoect Matthew is disappointed. The context is that, promoted by Nero, a zealous group of actors rise up and seal the fate of the Judeans. His disappointment is that he saw Jesus as a savior figure, but his own Jews would not listen. Instead of tollowing the sword of the tongue, they picked up swords of metal. Most people see Matthew as disliking Mark, but he borrows extensively from mark, and I think principally he bases his passion narrative on Marks story and expands it. So Matthews use of the word christ and certain parts of Mark is an admition that the more pauline view of Jesus has merit than a prewar Jewish follower might have. The context here is that Jews are in a state of confusion and transition. The later gnostic beliefs are largely derived from jewish prechristian groups that represent various mystical groups in Judaism. So that a variety of peripheral jewish groups are beginning to reflect on what happened and deciding to include Jesus within their belief framework.
The Gospel of John. Im one of the people who think the first hellenized structure within John was pre-war. It was a more whimsical text designed for a greek audiance, and its akin to a fan fiction. After osticization of christians from the assembly of Jews in Ephesus, they then added an anti-Jewish layer. But I think that a decade or more after the War, with a weak effective ecclesia grecan christians were increasingly seeing the Jesus following as kind of dry and unfulfilled. I think a major issue with the gospels is they lacked the features of other elective beliefs. I would imagine at the time there were already aspects of the gospel of Tomas in circulation and these authors want something for their audiance that was more hellenized, more like a mystery religion and embodied the soul as kind of an aspiring god.
Again, the god of the roman empire was the distant emperor, these people were far from kingly controls. They wanted a faith that aspired them closer to heaven as Jerusalem was unlikely to be restored in their lifetime. In the context of isolated groups in a large empire tgere was no hope of building an Israelite like state, there was no genetic cohesiveness. There was constant external threat from other beliefs, so growing a big austentacious church was not possible, their focus had to be on the power inside.