He will Return! He hasn't yet! Don't belive those Preterists that say he has. 2 Peter 3 King James Version 3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8👉 But, beloved, 👉be not ignorant of this👉 one thing,👉 that one day is with the Lord 👉as a thousand years, and 👉a thousand years 👉as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack👉 concerning his promise, 👈as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing 👉that any should perish,👈 but that 👉all should come👉 to repentance.👈 🚨10 But the day of the Lord 👉will come👈👉 as a thief in the night👈; in the which the heavens shall pass away with 👉a great noise,👈 and the👉 elements shall melt with👉 fervent heat, 👈👈the earth also 👉and the works 👈👉that are👉 therein 👉shall be 👉burned up.👈 11 Seeing then that 👉all these things shall be👉 dissolved,👈👉 what manner 👉of persons ought👉 ye 👉to be in all👉 holy conversation👉 and godliness,👈 12👉 Looking for and👉 hasting unto the👉 coming of the 👉day of God, 👈wherein the👉 heavens being 👉on👉 fire shall be 👉dissolved👈, and the👉 elements shall👉 melt with fervent heat?👈 13 Nevertheless we, 👉according to 👉his promise👈, look for 👉new heavens and a new earth👈👉, wherein dwelleth 👉righteousness.👈 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things,🚨👉 be diligent that 👉ye may be found 👈👉of him in peace,👈👉 without spot, and blameless.👈 👉15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother👉 Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath 👉written unto you;👈 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨👉17 Ye therefore,👉 beloved, seeing 👉ye know these things before, 🚨👉beware lest ye also, 👉being led away 👉with the error of the wicked,👉 fall from👉 your👉 own stedfastness.👈🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨 18👉 But grow in grace,👈👉 and in the👉 knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 👈👉To him be 👉glory both now👈 and👉 for ever. Amen. Mathew24:48-50 King James Version👇👇👇👇👇 48 👉But and if that 👉evil servant 👈👉shall say👈 in his heart, 👈👉My lord delayeth👉 his coming;👈 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 👉The lord of that 👉servant shall come in a day👈 when 👉he looketh not👉 for him, 👉and in an hour👈 that 👉he is not 👉aware of,👈 51👉 And shall 👉cut him asunder, 👈👉and appoint him 👉his portion with the hypocrites:👈👉 there shall be 👉weeping and 👉gnashing of teeth.👈
What many full preterists do not acknowledge is that when the enemies of Christ (harlot, beast, false prophet) empowered by Satan, have all been defeated, then the next defeat to occur is that of Satan himself. That event is separated from the defeat of the original enemies of Christ by a thousand years (symbolic time period). This thousand years is quite pronounced in the text, and its significance cannot be ignored. Many people erroneously emphasize Rev. 20:4-6, but this is not the main event, the binding of Satan is the main narrative here. Satan is stopped from gaining new allies in destroying Christianity, during this thousand years. When briefly Satan is released, he returns to gathering more allies to do as he did previously, to attempt to destroy Christianity through persecution, but before he even gets to that point, Christ intervenes and Satan is destroyed by being thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet are. Evidently even today Satan is still bound. We will know that he is released when Christianity becomes powerless, by being surrounded by those who wish its demise. Some currently believe that we are seeing the beginning of those times.
@@larrymcclain8874what if Revelation was reiterating what had already happened and what was going to happen in the spirit world? Jesus said the strong man was bound in order to enter his house. He said right before the cross that now, his now, which was then, now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out and I if I am lifted up will draw all men unto me. And he was released for a short time, during the fall of Jerusalem, to cause chaos and judgment on the generation that crucified Christ. And the 1000 years was a quality of time, not quantity, when the disciples ruled on earth with Christ. What if? And why in Rev 22 are there sinners right outside the city gates of heaven? And whosever will, can come in and drink of the water of life freely? Maybe because it’s the kingdom of heaven that’s inside you, Luke 17, and it’s God’s new covenant with man that we have now on this earth. That’s good news to me. Just what if?
I'll never understand how anyone can be a preterist, it turns the book of Revelation into the most meaningless gibberish ever put to paper. I've also notice how futile it is to discuss anything with a preterist. The only way to debunk it is to use scripture, but for the preterist the scripture NEVER means what it actually says, expect for one single time when Jesus said THIS generation. That is the only word in all of Bible prophecy they take literally, all other words are nonliteral and symbolic. ID the words of the text NEVER mean what they say, then you can never use a verse to debunk anything they claim and its pointless to even try.
thats "an " explanation of a man whose job and livelyhood and pension rely upon total pretersim not being true. Christianity which ended in 70AD with the amazing complete work of Christ has been nothing but a curse to mankind and has led to billions being murdered in the name of a book and a false god.
I found Bruce Gore's very detailed YT lectures Apocolypse in Space and Time very comprehensive on understanding the book of Rev. He also sees Rev as being written pre 70 AD and he too had to be persuaded, before coming to that revelation.
I do I agree with Preterism to a certain degree but disagree their conclusion. Revelation is not a preterism or futurism book. It's a book that describes the end of age to its fullness of the gentile. From the beginning of Jesus death to the end of the the world when the harvest happens. Preterism teaches that Jesus came a second time and that the earth will be full of believers according to the parable of the mustard seed. It's the same doctrine that the roman catolic teaches the world. Having a one world religion one world faith and believe. Jesus will come again and reign with us 1000years at the end of the age of piscis. No one knows when his second coming will be until it's too late.
It was a good series, but there is not justification to say the prophecy in REV. was fulfilled in 70 AD AND sometime in the future. MATT 5:18. It would be ALL fulfilled, not partial.
I think the problem is that most American Christians somehow think that Preterism, whether full or partial, is somehow outside the realms of orthodoxy. This is NOT the case!
Read the first 80 pages of builder/developer Gary Cangelosi's "God's Kingdom on Earth and in Heaven" NAILS it. Shoots holes in all three prevailing views with solid exegesis and ante nicene fathers.
@@SavedByTheBloodOfChrist551 Agree 100%. I cringe sometimes looking back on comments I made a long time ago. Full Preterism is a gateway drug to Gnosticism and, as you said, denies one of the crucial tenets of the Nicene Creed.
The problem futurists have (and I was one) often breaks down to not understanding apocalyptic literary forms as well as a lack of historical perspective. I think there are some matters of eschatology that will always be a bit shrouded in mystery but that is not out of character for God to keep some things to himself.
Respectfully The problem for preterists, is they reject God’s PERFECT start, and then reject His Perfect ending. Which is clearly explained in Revelation. You and I live in a world of exploding sin….God will end sin, and death….He just hasn’t yet. But…..His coming is “soon” And Has been SOON, for over 2000years.
@@jamesstumpff7774 every preterist I’ve heard seems to forget that every man is a liar and that historians are almost always liberal atheists who’s main goal is discrediting or disproving God, so of course they wanna confuse the hell out of people and cause then to lose their faith.
@@jacksonrelaxin3425 I just started studying preterists. It’s kind of like studying a math book and then proclaiming math doesn’t count unless you’re S Korean.
@@jamesstumpff7774 Amen brother. There is a major increase in "kingdom now" ideology and it is coming from all sub groups, minus one! Within Reformed theology, we are seeing Theonomy being preached. They believe that they can bring about the kingdom by instituting God's law within governmental systems that we know presently belong to Satan until Jesus Christ returns and takes over all of them. It is so abundantly clear that all of the events taking place is leading straight to a governmental system where order is restored and corruption eradicated. Most people will joyfully accept this false hope and be decieved. Only He can bring the kingdom and put an end to the madness! Amen!!!
@@jamesstumpff7774 Great analogy. It's like a movie with an amazing start, then an amazing "end" then like 8 hours of just random extra film that adds nothing to the story as people meander in and out of the theater trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
I am fairly new to this concept. I am reading Lynn Louise Schuldt's older book titled "Prophecy Paradox". In addition to referencing every claim made, she gives a lot of history on the Jewish Wars. Her's is a classic preterist book.
Historically, both Preterism and Futurism were part of the counter-Reformation led by the Jesuits. Our Reformation forefathers were neither Preterists, nor Futurists. It's why the Jesuits had to try and combat them on this issue. Please look more deeply into these issues. I lament that my bible-believing brethren are falling more and more into one of these two [fallacious] camps. They (Preterism and Futurism) are and abandonment of the Reformation teaching on these issues. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
And....how about Zecharia 14, where Jesus TOUCHES DOWN, and we come back with him? Zecharia 14:4-5 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south...and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. There's also other things to consider. Ezekiel 36 hasn't happened yet, either. Remember way back when, when the Kingdom of Israel split into two kingdoms? The rejoining of kingdoms into one kingdom has yet to happen, and that is prophesied, as well. And ALL of the Jews must GO HOME to Israel, and REINSTITUTE the Temple Worship under the Law of Moses. Then the Book of Revelation can happen. We still have Jews in Hollywood, and all over the world. Did you know that only a small fraction of Jews came back to Israel after their captivity from Babylon? Many stayed behind in Assyria, while others moved to various places, as visited by Paul, and Peter, and such. What year was the Babylonian Talmud finished? Why is it called "Babylonian"? Much prophesy has yet to take place. Therefore, clinging to the word "Shortly" as if it means "in a few minutes" is not a good idea.
Dustin Nuttall thank you for a blanket statement that provides absolutely no examples. Now, I'll brace myself for you to provide verses out of context.
It is a problem for the dispensationalists because IT MAKES SPIRITUAL SENCE and they don't like something to make sense, they want people to accept their mind-boggling charts by faith.
Apparently Christ told His people He would return before some of them died did He not.?? And if He did not that would make Him a liar would it not..? Some kind of a fancy word preterism..! The bible says He would return like a thief in the night and cause earth changes and move islands out of their places,, and one place it says He will be seen in the clouds and the dead would be raised up to meet him in the clouds and then the rest will be changed and beamed up or taken up to meet Christ in the sky and then this earth will be burned.. Do I have that correct.?
They can’t agree which passages are AD 70 and which ones are future. This was an objection raised by Gary Demar when Wilson’s mob asked him to clarify his views on eschatology recently.
What about: "Absent from the body. Present with the Lord?" II Corinthians 5:6-8 "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
Whether "body" is individual physical body there, or corporate body of "the flesh"/being in Adam/not yet consummately "in Christ"'s inheritance, there's a legitimate longing expressed there of course. The latter, the fundamental (spiritual resurrection hadn't been consummated for those in Christ - there was a "now-not yet" to it. If the former, the same goes before the consummation of the latter. But a few other helps to note: Paul also explicitly says that the hope is not to be "unclothed" of body, but "clothed upon" - life condition bestowed. Second, he anticipated his physical death before the coming of Christ/covenant resurrection. In a very real sense, he himself was in a position of "filling up the sufferings of Christ" in his ministry. Peter, too, would die. (Perhaps the two witnesses in Revelation). Third, there was a very imminent sense of all this in their lifetime expressed, which is very clear when one sees it spelled out. Paul speaks to the Thessalonians in the expectation that some of them would not physically die before it. Even when he condemns the false teaching of some saying the resurrection had passed already, he never seemed to question their apparent spiritual sense of it per se - he never said, "don't be stupid..just look in the graves! And how could you possibly think that we're there!" He rather tells them the things that have to happen first. (The essence of saying the resurrection had come already was to commend the Mosaic system, i.e. Judaizers concept of Christ the Messiah, prophet, priest and king of a Mosaic/Judaic economy..Last, 2Cor 3-6 plus draw on the "New temple" motif of the OT - I.e. "we, the body of Christ, are that temple". This would be a full preterist understanding..and one that doesn't demean the physical body/equate it with "the flesh"/the body of sin.
My comment would have been more complete if I'd had said, too, that the tenor of spirit Paul expresses his words in isn't a wistful, other-worldly longing to be absent from his "now", but a powerful longing for both the "restoration"/"reformation"/"resurrection" in the context of already being confident and joyous and filled with the power of the Spirit to the degree that such believers were willing to die even before Christ came to be with him if that is what filled up Christ's sufferings in their body/honoured him. It was their honour and pleasure. Even when the time was very near/at hand to enter God's rest in consummate covenantal sense.To be absent from the earth before he came was to be nearer to him in a real sense. It was better while they awaited the best.
Do a study on the Greek used in that passage. Sometimes we forget that the New testament was wasn't originally written in English and its true meaning requires some digging.
So many pitbull FP’s here. Brethren, if you are the ones in the possession of truth in this matter, feed us with the truth! Wisdom is peaceable, and some of you are only vindicating a contentious spirit.
I used to be able to debate topics and it's a great way to get a deeper understanding but the last year or two you can't talk to anyone about anything without being attacked. Perhaps a sign of the times.
If you haven't studied the late Max R. King's work, The Cross and the Parousia", you really haven't seriously studied Preterism (Covenant Eschatology). Both R. C. Sproul and N.T. Wright studied eschatology under Max. With all due respect, none of the books mention even come close to decisely addressing the subject. For starters, Paul begins the resurrection saying Jesus died for our "sins" not for our "skins." He closes the chapter with the same theme forming an inclusio for all inbetween. I would be happy to have a discussion on the resurrection with a partial preterist or futurist.
I was looking for an actual response and I'm bummed by this answer. Full preterism wouldn't say that there's "no terminus". My understanding is that if it were true then we would obviously be living in the little season at the end of the millennial reign. If that were the case then we'd simply be awaiting the final judgement. How's that for a terminus?
Hyperbole, this generation knows what nails look like. Perhaps a better phrase would be: when you buy a new hammer, every surface looks like it could use a nail. No sound person goes around thinking everything looks like a nail. And no, I'm not always fun at parties, only sometime ;D
No. Why? Paul was the *LAST* to see Christ. Paul’s epistles *FULFILLED* (completed) the word of God. Therefore John’s revelation was given & penned pre 60s AD before Paul died as Paul was the last to ever see Christ. And he completed the bible. Hebrews to Revelation were penned before Paul completed his epistles. Col 1:25 KJV Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to *fulfil* the word of God; 1 Corinthians 15:8 KJV And *last* of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. Using scripture only, here is used to discredit the 90s AD writing of Revelation and yet also proving it to be anytime before
I was a full preterist for years. It was only by the grace of God that my heart was softened. Otherwise I never would have known how far I had drifted. I now see full preterism as horrible. It strips the promises of Jesus right out of the NT.
I find myself slipping into full preterism, although against my will. Can you please help me by providing proof from scripture that it's a false doctrine. Thank you so much!
@@ajarrett2940 Right on. I don't know if it's possible to do it all in a youtube reply - but I will certainly try! Full Preterism all builds on the premise that "The time indicators in prophesy are KEY in interpreting prophesy". So when Jesus says "This generation will not pass until all these things take place" the preterist jumps on that and says "So everything took place then, at that time, to those people, standing there, with Jesus, at that time, and thats it." Because "The time indicators tell us so". But preterists do not apply that same premise to the rest of scripture. In Genesis 22 Abraham prophesies to Isaac as they were going up the mountain saying "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burt sacrifice". So the question for the preterist is - was Abraham speaking about an event that would be fulfilled in Isaac's time or an event that would take place 2000 years later in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ? The account in Gen 22 has a father sacrificing his only son, the son even comes riding on a donkey (Gen 22:3, Zach 9:9, & Matt 21), the promise is that a lamb will be provided as a substitute,....it all seems to be pointing to Jesus. But it can't be about Jesus because Isaac was rescued in his day. Isaac saw Abraham's prophesy fulfilled. But we still have an issue - Isaac was not replaced with a lamb. He was replaced with a ram (Gen 22:13). So why did Abraham say lamb? We get the resolve in Hebrews 11:19 "[Abraham] concluding that God was able to raise [Isaac] up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense". Isaac was a typological or figurative fulfillment of the prophesy (promise) that would be ultimately fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ (His death and resurection). So when Abraham said "God will provide for Himself the lamb", Abraham was talking about something that would be fulfilled (though imperfectly) in Isaac's day but also fulfilled (perfectly) in Jesus' day, 2000 years later. So the fulfillment is both. The same happens in Joshua's day. The text clearly states that every promise (prophesy) was fulfilled: You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed. (Josh 23:14) But then there did still remain a future fulfillment: For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. (Heb 4:8) Although Isreal did see a fulfillment. The person and work of Jesus (~1,500 years later) was still the ultimate and perfect fulfillment of those promises give to Israel through Moses. How do preterists look at the sign of the virgin given in Isaiah 7? God is clearly speaking to king Ahaz. All the time text indicators point to the fact that Isaiah is speaking to Ahaz and the house of David. Isaiah 7:14 reads "The Lord will give YOU a sign"; speaking to the people who were standing there. At that time. So the question to the preterists is - how is it then, that we take that sign, and apply it to an event that happened 700 years later? In Matt 24:15 Jesus says "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel the prophet" Jesus is saying these words as being some future event. The problem is that the prophetic visions Daniel recieved concerning the abomination of desolations were already fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes 200 years before the olivet discourse (160s b.c.). So the question to the preterist is - how is Jesus saying that some prophecy of Daniel, which had already been fulfilled 200 years earlier, still have some future application? Prophesy isn't just future telling. Prophesy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev 19:10). It will always have it's perfect fulfillment in the person and work of Jesus. The first century church saw a typological/figurative fulfillment of the NT promises but we still wait for that perfect fulfillment when Jesus Himself actually bodily returns. I hope this helps some!
Not only the New Testament but the Old as well. Revelation 10:7, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Since we know that even Moses and Aaron were called prophets in the scripture, this verse covers a great amount of ground.
@@randomdude9758 So you’re saying that it may have been fulfilled in some sense in 70AD but there will be a second, greater fulfillment? Are you saying that Matt 24 hasnt been fulfilled or some of it has?
@@evanu6579 My understanding is that all of human history is building up to and pointing to the return of the Lord Jesus Christ; which would include the first century church. What are your thoughts?
I am a full preterist now and started out as a partial preterist, but I kept persevering with the more "difficult" aspects of the full position and I'll tell you it was worth it. For example, when you dig into studying the resurrection, you discover that the problem is not with the FP position but with the fact that (1) we have been heavily seeded with futurism and (2) we come face to face with a decidedly different culture (ancient Judaism) which is far different than our modern American culture. When you take a serious look at the "resurrection" in the New Testament it is saturated with a "spiritual' resurrection position. For example, "You died and your life is hidden with life in God." and "It is no longer I that live, but Christ." Salvation is resurrection! You died with Him and you were raised with Him. Jesus said the "flesh profits nothing." We're redeemed spiritually which is the center of the issue. From there you have the opportunity to overcome everything including physical death! Remember...Adam died spiritually instantly, but it took almost a millennium for his body to come to an end. There are good teachers on the more difficult aspects of the FP position and not so good ones, and also still more areas that need to be studied but as long as you keep with the two basic pillars: time stamps and audience relevance you will remain anchored. Keep on persevering. God bless!
@@thebeardedman-drenaline5546 Here's another verse: "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life…Romans 6:4,5 When we believe, we die with Christ, are resurrected with Him, ascended with Him and seated with Him! What Adam lost, we have NOW.
@@pugalicious2419 Yes...there is no scriptural evidence for it's destruction. There are ages that it has passed through and more that it will pass through. The good news is that now that Christ rules we have full access to the the Father. He is now in the process of restoring all things. From Daniel: the whole earth will be full of the knowledge of theLord as the waters cover the sea.
@@gloryman3634 From reading the bible on its own and if I hadn't known the teaching that Jesus would return in my future I probably would have assumed it already happened based on scripture like the Olivet discourse, Matthew 16:28 and other examples. I think all I can do is continue reading to find the truth and to be honest, I wouldn't go as far as to say that full preterism doesn't have problems of its own based on scripture.
Partial Preterists are still orthodox Christians, but Full Preterists cannot explain why death still occurs if death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire in AD 70.
@@nicholaszenga4388 that’s not me talking, Yeshua told everyone when he was on earth that he would return in his generation. (First century). if you think he didn’t you are the one calling Yeshua a liar, not me
I have been a full preterist for 20 years or more. :) When I buy a new hammer..............everything does not look like a nail. weird analogy you have presented.
You can't separate Daniel 12, from Daniel 9. And Mathew 24, the resurrection is from Daniel 12, Jesus and Paul's source of the resurrection doctrine, happens when the abomination of desolation is set up, also taught in Daniel 9 and 12 and Mathew 24, and that would all take place in Jesus generation Mathew 24:34.
It certainly wasn't a "shiny hammer" in my experience. 'Twas very cautiously, even reluctantly approached, with a wide theological understanding essentially "Reformed", with justification by grace alone upon faith alone right at the heart of the gospel...Like many positions (e.g. "Reformed"), "full preterism" isn't monolithic, and I too am sensitive to certain concerns such is Christology. But here's the thing: every element of what put together equals Full Preterism has shown up in part in different Partial positions historically. And simply, there is no hermeneutic warrant for sorting NT passages into "AD70" vs "yet to be" that isn't begging the question. If you stick to redemptive historical covenants and a biblical redemptive history (yet with an awareness of the principles that are inherent in them per a sound understanding of "theological" covenants - again, not a monolithic treatment that latter) and realize that Paul, as he stated, preached "nothing but the hope of Israel" with regards "the resurrection" (Acts 24,26,28) and that that hope is the consummation/establishment of the New Covenant inheritance (resurrection from the Adamic curse having received post-Judgment justification by the gift of righteousness) - that the eschatology of all the Law and Prophets, Psalms, Job, synoptics, letters, epistles and finally Revelation is one and the same, and the timing and nature accord, there it is. For my part, I believe in the ongoing humanity of Christ, as well as his deity, and that the resurrection/kingdom inheritance won by virtue of the atonement subsists in Him. I also believe when those in Christ die, they obtain their physical resurrection body in consummate form, no gap. But just as our bodies cycle through a whole new set of cells/atoms every 7 years (quicker for many parts), so which set of atoms mixed with other things will a physical resurrection body so-dependent obtain(?) the biblical heart of the doctrine of resurrection has always been spiritual - that is, to be raised from the dead spiritually by virtue of justification unto reconciliation to God - so everything physical depends on that. It's not an either-or, it's a question of logical priority : obtain the spiritual seed, see the fruit in time. In essence, my view, while full preterist of a sort, even entails a (spiritual, gospel, not structures of this world) postmillenial-esque "increase"/manifestation of fruit. And the picture at the end of Revelation, per Isa 65,66 from whence comes the "New creation" language (and strong Partial Preterists like Edwards called this present earth a new [covenant] heavens and earth, too) isn't the same as what is demanded by a "what appears" reading and expectation. But it is representative of a covenantal reading. In reality, seen properly, in my eyes this is the furthest view from a Gnostic/Platonic Dualist conception of soteriology, eschatology, and anthropology, very much in tune with the ancient Hebraic and Old Testament conception of "the body" (both personally - "man is a body who has been made a living soul/spirit, not a spirit who has a morally corrupt body" - a frequent asceticism in theology - and corporately - "in Adam"/the body of death/sin/a broken covenant of works - "in Christ"/raised, alive from that death, a covenant of grace"). That is, rather than foisting an essential dichotomy between the spiritual and the material, it makes the distinction properly, and grounds the physical properly in the spiritual. No disjunction or "second redemption", as it were, for the physical. And an ongoing salvation of people, an ongoing living fellowship with God in Christ (no veil of the Law after judgment!, tabernacles fulfilled) and grace upon grace as new creations for eternity (forever time not a "disjunct" from "time"). It is supposed to be better in our experience and conception today, I believe, and eschatology is not supposed to be fractured, complicated, and all over. It's just meant to be understood as the redemptive history of soteriology, the establishment of the covenant kingdom of Christ with the Father, saved man raised as sons, heirs of God, joint-heirs with Christ, with a glorious future and ongoing fruit of it because of a finished redemption.
PS: one of the books that was helpful to me as I considered these things was the same book that was helpful to RC Sproul become a strong Partial Preterist : the Parousia, by James Stuart Russell. If you take the sine qua non of "Full Preterism" as "past judgment/"coming of Christ" (and judgment/vindication was the anticipation and the "bar" which every person had/has to do with, not "investigation" - something many a reformed, non-full preterist would agree with in essence), then JSR was an (inconsistent) Full Preterist per that book.
Holy word salad batman. Explain Jesus repeatedly, explicitly, plainly saying his return was imminent. Any way you bend this will be bending his speech far more than the preterists bend the prophetic language. Preterism is therefore more coherent. We're currently in satan's season. The Millennial Kingdom's "rule of iron" was the Middle Ages.
Exellent job of explaining the terms...Can you give me your thoughts regarding our biblically honest responsibility to each other,how we interact with those who we may not be in 100% doctrinal agreement with(everybody!) versus what I see as condemnation/judgement for even questioning the status quo doctrines? The extremism on both sides of futurism and preterism scare the hell out of me...frankly. Thanks! Mike
I'm full preterist and have been for a few years. One scripture that is causing me problems is 1 Tim. 2:14. "Creation of the world" is always associated with a covenant established by God with his people. It is shown with Israel, and in the New covenant. However, Paul seems to be taking a literal interpretation of Genesis in stating that the woman was not created first and was deceived. I believe in evolution and so the exact date there was a delineation of male/female would not be in the same era as humanity's struggle to hold to their moral obligation with God. Am I missing something?
God created Adam out of the dust, and "dust" can mean "multitudes of people". The "dust of Judah" means his descendants, "Jehu was exalted out of the dust", armies can be brought out of "the dust that remains of Samaria" and Solomon says his subjects "are like the dust of the earth". When Adam was cursed, God took him out of Eden and returned him to "to till the ground from whence he was taken". He was sent back among the gentiles, with the breath of God still filling his lungs and the fruits of the two trees still in his belly. Eve on the other hand was created out of Adam so they would complement each other. They are made of the same substance. If you are interesting in engaging on the topic of preterism I have a commment above explaining how the fig tree of Matt 24 points to a dual fulfillment in AD70 and in the future. I prefer the term historicist as I see prophecy being unsealed by historic and future events.
@@FozzyBBear ? It clearly says Adam is the first person made. The first human. What is with all these symbolic scripture mental gymnastics? Your just adding words and taking words from scripture.
gotta check all possiblity. Read on MBTI functions: 1. If it happend, where the new earth, heaven, judgment? 2. If It didnt happend, well, was jesus a false messiah apocalyptic preacher? 3. if is future, dont make sense, because the disciples and Paul expected a imminet return. Why would israel return back, and go through the trib? lol does that make sense?
I've been looking into Preterism lately and I have noticed that some full preterists seem to be verging on some unusual beliefs. Full Preterism as I understand it means the devil has been defeated and there is no activity today, only human evil. Some preterists argue satan, devil is not a real person and the only evil is perpetrated by man.
Full preterists are very wrong and they give partial preterists a bad image. Dispensationalism, the most popular view of today, to me is borderline cult like.
Everything they see in scriptures is symbolic, full of interpretation which leads to the wrong scripture or a scripture being added or taken. They all do scripture symbolic mental gymnastics.
If Death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire in AD 70 why do we still see physical and spiritual death today? Yes the FP position states that the only evil today is the evil of the human heart. So what was accomplished on the Cross? If all things were fulfilled in AD 70 is the Bible just a history book? Why do we still celebrate Holy Communion? If we're in the Age to Come why are we still seeing marriage taking place?
Mt 16:27-28 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
"Partial' 3-4 days a week, 'full' (like Don Preston) the rest of the time. Seriously, I do kinda go back and forth, probably depending on who I'm mostly listening to at the time.
*Historicism is biblical* Declaring *the end from the beginning* and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: {Isaiah 46:10} “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” {Revelation 1:19} Prophetic continuance is histrorisim.
I know right? Some very intellectual dishonest statements made by Doug here. I feel like Doug knows the second coming was in 70 ad as the Bible clearly teaches. But the resurrection was to happen at Jesus second coming, for some reason Doug dishonestly separates the second coming and ressurection
So where in the timeline of the Bible or history do preterists think we are? The millennial kingdom, the new heaven and earth or what? Because if you believe we’re in the millennial kingdom, Isaiah clearly describes that time as “the wolf will lie down with the lamb and the lion will graze with the ox. So, let’s take a trip to the zoo and we’ll see what happens when you get in the cage with a lion or wolf. And Isaiah also states that mortal humans will live to be 100 years old and infants will not die unexpectedly. Well, that isn’t true either. And if preterists believe we’re in the new heaven and earth why is the old one still here because in the book of revelation is states that the old heaven and earth will melt with a fervent heat and be fed forever and there will be no more sickness, death or sin.
@@rpdbaeaphcmp4229This is actually easy to explain but it’s been awhile since your comment and you probably don’t care. Unless you’re like me, this bugs the crap out of you and you need an explanation. Which is how I came to full preterism.
I believe that the second coming of Jesus is when He saves us. A lot of the scripture that is considered to be about the end of time fits perfectly with Jesus’s death and resurrection. I don’t discredit any views though. In reality, the only thing that matters is that we’re saved by grace and have a personal relationship with Jesus.
Romans 5:13- "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." This means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today.
Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 11 Thess 2 : 33.
Exactly, and futurist or as known dispensationalism or premillennialism is the biggest deception sold to the church. The devil used Margaret MacDonald and John Nelson Darby to deny the full fulfillment of scripture in the 1800’s.
Well said. I'm also a partial-preterist. I believe that the great tribulation ended in the 1st century but that the rapture/2nd coming of Jesus will happen in our future when the world is judged by fire. The Church will be saved from the wrath to come. Full-preterism is extreme and destroys the hope of bodily resurrection and the new heaven and earth.
I'm a new partial-preterist. Just put things together a month or so ago. So far what you stated is close to where I'm at. There are still some things in the Bible that need fulfilled yet.
@josh Well, the enemies of God must be made a footstool for his feet, the world must grow in further submission to Christ, and of course, the last enemy, death must be defeated at the return of Christ. Full Preterism might have some value to the mindset it offers of Christ's kingdom established, but it must acknowledge that if it is true, the current world fully in bondage to the curse of sin, riddled with evil, pain, death, suffering, wars, corruption, will never ever be liberated. Full Preterists say, "It has been liberated! Spiritually!" But my friend, if there is no end to sin in God's glorious creation, there is no culminate victory for Him. Honestly, look around at the world, and ask yourself, "does this make sense, for God to leave things the way they are? To allow evil and sin to just keep going and going?" Scripturally, I don't think it does.
If the great tribulation has already happened, then why aren’t we already gathered up at the Coming of the Son of Man? Matt. 24:29-31; 1 Thess. 4:13-18
There is never a mention in any part of scripture that states a physical bodily resurrection. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
This is one man’s view of preterism and not what all preterists (full, hyper, partial) believe.Dr John Noe is an excellent source for explaining preterism.Some others are Gary DeMar, Dr Lynn Hiles and Don K Preston.
“But full preterist is the shiny hammer that makes everything look like a nail. It thinks because it has great explanatory power here, here, here, and here, it explains absolutely everything. We’ll the problem is it explains you right out of the orthodox Christian faith.” If it explains everything, and explains you right out of the Christian faith, maybe the “Christian” faith or religion we have today isn’t right? Maybe we’re trying to inject ourselves into Israel’s redemptive story? Maybe we are trying to apply the redemptive plan for Israel to us today? What it sounds like you’re saying is….since it explains so much, and it doesn’t fit into my paradigm, it must be wrong.
To be blunt, the so-called "partial-preterists" may just as well be called "futurists". Either you believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (Preterist view) or you don't believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (Futurist view).
I get your issue with the explanation, but the same can be said for futurism. All Christians must be partial futurists, not just partial preterists. There are prophecies we must insist are yet to be fulfilled: the bodily return of Christ, the resurrection of the dead, final judgment. So that makes us all partial preterist. Likewise, there are prophecies we must insist have already been fulfilled: the coming of the Messiah. So that makes us all partial futurist. Hypothetically speaking, if I was a futurist, believing that Revelation was entirely yet to be fulfilled, but then I started putting all of scripture into the future, I’m out of the Christian faith, because now Jesus can’t be the Messiah anymore. I’m basically an apostate Jew. I don’t call myself a “partial preterist”, because I believe it gives the heretical preterists too much validity, and it gives brothers who disagree with us reason to say we’re on the road to heresy. It’s basically propaganda, and I can, with the same amount of basis, make a case that futurists are constantly in danger of explaining themselves out of the faith just by being futurists. One should want to be honest with the text to the point of being open to a preterist interpretation… not to necessarily use preterism (or futurism or anything else) as an interpretive tool.
The Bible is the story of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant Law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today. Here's more... If you believe the Bible, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the Old Covenant Law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away. You'd have to agree with history, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70. You'd have to agree with Paul, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today. You'd also have to agree with Hebrews 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today. The bitter pill of truth is that nobody has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible. "But...but...I'm gentile!" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who had been dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort. Today's self-appointed, self-professing "Christians" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a Law that passed away...and need a savior who said he came for someone else...who will save them from a sin that's already been removed...and a judgement that already happened...and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and are not part of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible.~Michael Bradley Stop hijacking & inserting yourself into ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible. The Bible: It's Not About Us Today!
@@josephrohland5604 What a liar you are. So I guess the apostolic fathers, such as Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp, who either knew an Apostle or knew those taught of them, who clearly continued in preaching and promoting the faith well after 70AD, were clearly in error. And I guess the Apostles and church fathers who were careful to pass down all they had received must have had a momentary slip up in memory, seeing as how the preterist heresy is found nowhere in the writings of the early church...except when being condemned by them. All you are is a lying, antinomian antichrist, deceived, and doing the work of the devil. But I take heart in the knowledge that the elect of God will never, ever believe you. You have already lost.
Is 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Preterism? 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some
And also Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 2 Thessalonians 2:3
To be blunt, the so-called "partial-preterists" may just as well be called "futurists". Either you believe "all things" were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (the Preterist view) or you don't believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (futurist view).
Actually the Historical view is consider when you believe some was then and everything after Rev. 6 is an unfolding of history into the future. Futurists believe it’s all prophecy of the future.
@@solitairecat1 1,000 years is simply symbolic for fullness or completion. Peter reassured the 1st century audience who were growing impatient that Christ's return had not happened yet, that a thousand years is as a day. Jesus said He would return in that generation. A generation in the Bible is 40 years and He returned 40 years later in judgement on the Harlot city of Revelation, which was Jerusalem. It's much easier to believe that 1,000 years represented fullness and fits into the first century, than to believe Christ is yet to return in our time. Believing that Christ is yet to return is basically calling him a liar. He said it would all be fulfilled in the generation of the first century. The time statements are clear
Who decides which interpretation is the right one? I struggle with the textual historians who date the book of Revelation in the early 90’s and those who date the prophecies of the temple destruction in 70 A.D. ?
Yes it is very interesting that Doug appeals to the creeds and church history to refute full preterism rather than the bible. Partial preterism is fundamentally flawed. I've read all those books Doug mentions and the theology within them is so inconsistent it boggles my mind that the relevant authors could have written them and not see it themselves. Tradition and orthodoxy are very powerful things. Seriously, when will those of the Reformed tradition begin living up to the call of 'Sola Scriptura'?
Preterism has answered most of my questions concerning eschatology and I am grateful for that. Futurism to me is a fairy tale and it has caused much harm throughout the ages. All these false prophets predicting 'the end' and the 'anti-christ' has caused fear and confusion. God is not the author of confusion but liars sure are. Peace
***** I'm an Orthodox Christian. We also believe scripture to be completely infalliable? IF that's what sola scriptura truly means, you should have no issue with veneration of saints.
Decent explanation and I know this is a short video but we have to be careful combating what the Bible says with how church history interpreted it. Church history does not have the same authority as the Bible; everything has to go back to the Bible so though it is true that the historical church did not hold the preterist view this does not make it untrue. I would encourage listeners to look at it Bible verse by Bible verse and compare the different views Bible verse by Bible verse I would also recommend getting a literal translation such as Young's translation or Green's translation because a lot of translations tend to be translated along doctrinal issues and are not word for word translations of versus that demonstrate preterism to be true such as time indicators found in the Bible. They are often simply removed because the church can't explain them; a great place to start is Matthew 10:23 where Jesus is telling his apostles that they won't be able to make it out of the cities of Israel before he returns.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Jesus was referring to the generation that would be gathered in the caught up event with the Elect by Angels)
Revelation has no unfulfilled prophecies. Jesus said the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies would be the sign that all things which were written were about to be fulfilled Luke 21:20-22. The destruction of Jerusalem was execution of the judgment. The judgment in Revelation is not the judgment of the world but the Jews. They are the ones who rejected Christ, crucified him and asked his blood be upon them and that of their children. Matthew 27:25. Jesus made it clear that it is the twelve tribes of Israel that would be judged in Matthew 19:28. In Revelation 20:4 you see this fulfilled when judgment was given to the saints to judge the ungodly. The Bible is about the Hebrews from start to end. So if you read it with that understanding, it will make complete sense to you.
@@CanonPress 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? note 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. "We" your rapture generation included Peter and his audience. Did God Create the new heaven and earth after your preterist rapture? The coming of the Day of God as a thief in the night... Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Revelation could not have possibly been written before 70 A.D., which would have placed John's vision around the time or shortly after Paul was still writing his epistles to the church. John was an old man in the 90's so he would not have been an old man in the 60's A.D., and Nero had no interest in exiling Christians but loved murdering them. Why would Peter and Paul die under Nero's reign while John didn't? And what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels. The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to switch this around by 3 decades? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 63 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 and Hebrews 10:9-10 both clearly show that both the Old and New covenants could not have existed side-by-side. The Mosaic law had long since finished by the time of the 2nd temple's destruction. Even Hebrews 8:10-13, which preterists love to quote, says the Mosaic law had already become obsolete so it's impossible for it to have still been 'growing obsolete' at the time of it's writing pre-70 A.D. Many Old Covenant saints came out of their graves for a short time after Jesus resurrected and appeared to a lot of people (Matthew 27:51-53). One could reasonably infer that they testified about who Christ is while they walked the earth again for a short time. Christ is the end of the Mosaic law for all who believe in Him. There was nothing left to still be in effect after the cross. The laws of purification were superseded by the Jesus' blood. There is no longer a requirement to stone those who don't celebrate the Friday night to Saturday night Sabbath. Those who celebrate the Jewish feasts and holidays are on equal footing with those who don't (Romans 14). What was left to still be in effect for about 40 years from the cross until 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem? Sacrifices? Jesus was the last sacrifice, and there was nothing forgiven under the animal sacrifices that took place after the cross. To say otherwise is blasphemous to what He accomplished for us. The animal sacrifices after the cross until 70 A.D. were not authorized to forgive sin and were an insult to the cross. Remember Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10 when they brought unauthorized sacrifices? They died horribly, by fire. No such thing took place after the cross. Why is that? It's because the Mosaic law was finished, and the New Covenant of grace was in effect and showing mercy to give them time to repent in Jerusalem before it fell. Had the Old Covenant somehow still been in effect, there would have been mass casualties at the temple since Jesus was the only way to forgiveness going forward. No real evidence for a pre-70 A.D. dating of Revelation, a position in diametric opposition to nearly 2000 years of overwhelming scholarly consensus of a post-70 A.D. writing, and no way for the Mosaic Law to exist alongside the New Covenant... A very, very shaky foundation indeed.
@Custom Made "The mosaic law was done away at the cross but the Pharisees were still doing their temple sacrifices until the temple was destroyed. None of those sacrifices counted for anything." you just defeated your own preterist doctrine by saying the Mosaic law was done away with at the cross. True preterist view states that it was still in effect, albeit in a diminished form, up until the 70 A.D. judgment of Jerusalem. If you truly believe that the Old Covenant was not existing side-by-side with the New Covenant, then you are not a preterist.
@royal priest lol, I was being facetious :) There's no time stamp in the Bible itself. The pre-70 A.D. view did not even come into existence until centuries after all of the original apostles had died. The predominant view from the first century onward is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan. Interestingly enough there was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. Also, do you have nothing to say about my original comment itself? If not then I'll just take that to mean you have no way of refuting the facts that I've presented.
@royal priest verification of what I've said isn't difficult. Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance is another entirely. Look up the 1995 Patmos celebration for yourself. Look up Hegessipus in the mid-2nd century and how he wrote decades before Irenaeus about John being exiled under Domitian and not Nero. See how Victorinus and Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicious Severus, Primasius, for starters all stated in the centuries before the first Neronic datings appeared that John was exiled under Domitian. 6th and 7th century writings are the earliest attempts to rewrite history. Literally all of them before that commonly accepted the Domitianic dating and not the Neronic dating. You've also failed to respond to any of my challenges. Can you find a single historical event that is moved around by 30 years in the dating and presented as credible from the first century A.D.? Can you? Because that's what preterism tries to do with Revelation.
@royal priest If you discredit every written word outside of the Bible itself then you'd better be consistent with that. Make sure you never read a history book, an autobiography, any other book or historical document and think of them as anything other than fiction since those aren't Scripture. Do you believe World War 1 and 2 took place? If so, then why? Did you read some accounts or watch documentaries about them? Those aren't in the Bible, so how can you trust that they happened? Was it hearsay from supposed veterans who were there? I'll take your refusal to answer my challenges as your inability to do so.
The Old Testament foreshadows things to come in the New Testament. That's why they look alike. For example: the substitutionary sacrifice for the son of Abraham, a ram/lamb (Jesus on the cross), the disasters/plagues in Egypt (wrath of God), persecution of the prophets/Christians (tribulation worldwide), the flood (wrath/end of the world, of God) In the Old Testament many events on a smaller scale, and in the future on a LARGE scale. Similar to the contractions increasing.
I was a full preterist (very briefly) about 20 years ago. If you are interested in checking out my channel, I refute the full preterist heresy extensively and definitively by submitting numerous proofs for a 70 AD start to the millennium. I also do a thorough critique of J.S. Russell’s and Dr. Duncan McKenzie’s position on the New Heavens and New Earth. I also look at a few partial preterist incongruencies.
This is great, but I've never seen a Partial Pret explain how they divide this out since every time statement, and I mean every one of them were all for that generation, audience, etc...This is why people who see the Partial view are forced by the time statements to figure out if perhaps the resurrection is not exactly what we think it is. Doug should really take a deep look at this, and produce a video of how he knows and where he finds, the cut off, otherwise, its just arbitrary and makes Partial Prets error in the same way other futurist do.
But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. - 2 Timothy 2:16-18 What changed in 70 AD that could possibly be termed a resurrection?
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 Thanks for the question, too much to go into here, but it was invisible, Josephus mentions some very strange phenomena, and Tacitus. There are good Full Preterist books that go into detail, plus a careful study of 1st Cor 15 leaves me believing whatever the resurrection body is, its not "selfsame", its still us, but not in the way tradition would have it. A good You-Tube channel is Berean bible church, you can find full sermons from this perspective. I'm not 100% convinced, but I am leaning this way. Thanks
@@mcgragor1 Just because strange phenomena occurred, that doesn’t override the clear Scriptural teaching that our mortal bodies will be given life and conformed to be like Christ’s body.
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 But we must take what is very clear first, then figure out the rest-right? Its clear Jesus was coming back then, to THAT generation, and of course, He did, right now Gary DeMar is being persecuted (mildly so far), for just asking questions and that is what we need to do. God-bless
Question to full preterists. What are the consequences of not believing in christ.??? As an atheist, what do i miss out, or what do i face, if i dont believe in christ / bible??
Well, some of us Preterists are IO, Israel Only...we see no one today included in the bible story...only ancient Israelites that met their end in AD70. Jesus himself said he came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel.
It explains everything because it allows scripture to interpret scripture which is what it's supposed to do, and it does not explain right out of the Orthodox church, let's not forget the core tenets of our faith which is the finished works of CHRIST ON THE CROSS and the great commission commandments, problem is dispensationalists put all their eggs in the eschatological basket which is why they keep date setting and always end up pushing the dates forward it's redundant and rediculous imo
The main reason why Christians argue against preterism is because it shows that the Bible is dealing up to 90CE, and not past that point. Full preterism follows the original context of the Bible, while others redefine it fit their particular viewpoint, and preterism does not get new members, nor does it sell books as well.
Question to full preterists. What are the consequences of not believing in christ.??? As an atheist, what do i miss out, or what do i face, if i dont believe in christ / bible??
@@keithelrod777 how do you explain rev 20? Has that coming happened yet? Rev 20:4 KJV And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
@@williambrewer Hi William!!! We must first realize that the First Resurrection already happened (Matthew 27:52 to 54). Then we see everyone in Heaven right now in Hebrews 12:22 to 24. Notice the Firstborn from the First Resurrection are listed separately from the spirits of the Righteous made perfect. If you die between the Two Resurrections you are a spirit in Heaven. The souls beheaded are spirits in Heaven right now. They get their Heavenly body later at the 2nd Resurrection.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😊😊
@@keithelrod777 okay, well that would mean it was only Old testament saints that were part of the first resurrection, right? After all, rhe new covenant was just being ratified, so you can't say New testament believers were part of a 30AD resurrection. But my contention would be why are these praised as having not received the mark of the beast? And how can they be "souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus"?
I would understand the saints who went into the holy city as just a sign of the Lord's resurrection. This is the same kind of resurrection as Lazarus or Tabitha. Not a resurrection to a glorious body. To me, it seems to fit better to put Revelation 20's first resurrection corresponding with Christ 70AD return (with the "dwelling places" he had prepared, see John 14, albeit inviable Rev 21:11, 18, 21). The Thessalonians passage seems to link resurrection and rapture together as well. Paul was looking forward to the rapture and so were all the other christians. I think Paul even got raptured, he says to Timothy that God would preserve him to his heavily kingdom. That means the thousand year reign ended about 1070. Satan was released for a few hundred years. Fire came down (Reformation) and his armies. Now we are back to millennial conditions- Christ reigning from The invisible City.
Tongues and Interpreting " Preterism is a Metaphor for Messiah crucified , 666 died , went to Hades cooled the fires , rose from the dead , and ascended on high IS imputed to true Jews in Jerusalem " This is the true statement " Salvation is Israel " " Elijah is the Head of true Christianity - the Holy Catholic Church - Messiah's new name is Solent " Son el t. Or Son of God, the Cross. Preterism.
"everything thing looks like a nail" in not a rebuttal of full preterism. I like Pastor Wilson, Ken Gentry and others they do some fine teaching but their poisoning the well with "Hyper-preterism" / "unorthodox" statements is again not a rebuttal. It is mind boggling the same men who teach sola scriptura appeal to "Christian Orthodoxy" what ever that may mean. Or appeals to "church" history or the "creeds". In every other area they teach the bible alone is our standard but in this area they appeal to "orthodoxy".
The real question is did anyone living throughout the bible ever know and read a prophecy and then it come to pass exactly like they thought it would? So it seems that God is probably going to perplex us and confound us all isn't he?
I am an Amillenialist in the sense that most things have been fulfilled. However, obviously Jesus has not returned yet. If you look at this as an apocalyptic book and that we must understand that it had to make sense to the 1st century readers first, this book will make more sense. It frees you from thinking every new event is the mark of the beast when you are able to see it as most things being fulfilled in the time of the first readers.
The book of 2 Esdras chapters 11-13 tells us that we are near the end of the Short Season. The wings of chapter 11 are US presidents Hoover through Clinton. Most of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have already been fulfilled. Analysis, proofs, dates, and timelines at my YT channel.
The Olivet prophecy was fulfilled within the first century or none of it was. That prophecy foretold of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans and the parousia of Jesus Christ happening at the same time. One was a outward physical sign of the other which occurred in the spirit realm. Jesus said that. Why do people have such a difficult time believing it?!!
So if the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the first century, are we saying ALL the tribes of the earth saw the sign of the Son of Man in the heavens and He sent His angels out to the four corners of the earth, from one end of the heavens to the other, then why don't historical writings from around the world speak of the greatest event since the flood? Did Jesus already sit on His Glorious Throne judge the nations(sheep and goats) were all Christians take to Heaven back in the first Century? What about us Christians today? Are we waiting for a Third Coming? Did the Millennial Reign already start? Is Christ ruling from Heaven? Is Satan bound so as to NOT deceive the nations any longer UNTIL the thousand years has ended? If Satan is bound, and is not deceiving the nations, why have over la billion been deceived into following Islam? Why over a billion following Buddha? Why over a billion following Hinduism? Why over a billion Catholics entrusting their souls to Mary ar the hour of their death? Not to mention atheists, LGBTQ, human trafficking, child molestation and pornography, murder, rape, drugs, alcohol, schools and universities teaching the godless Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution? Jesus in the Olivet Discourse was asked these questions: when will these things be? (The destruction of the temple) And what will be the sign of your coming again and the end of the age? He didn't address the timing of the destruction of the temple because it was a few short years away, BUT He did address His coming again. He said there would be false Messiahs (didn't happen in the first century) you (Christians) will be hated by ALL nations (did not happen in the first century) He Jesus would judge the nations of the world(did not happen in the first century) ALSO, in the Millennial Reign a person dying at 100 would be said to be an infant. Do we say a person living to 100 is a child? No! Also, in the Millennial Reign we will beat our weapons into plowshares and practice war no more. Has there EVER been a time like that in the last two thousand years? NO! I could go on and on. The preterist makes (This generation will not pass away...be literal) and then EVERYTHING else a metaphor!?!
An important note regarding Irenaeus, a preterist talking point: Preterists such are either being extremely disingenuous regarding Irenaeus, or they are unaware that Irenaeus wrote not once but twice in his work 'Against Heresies' that John survived into the time of Trajan and not just Domitian. How then can there be any question about whether he was referring to John's vision or to John himself being seen near the end of Domitian's reign? At best this is sloppy scholarship. At worst it's a willful deceiving of those who haven't read up on Irenaeus. That's like if you had a grandparent who passed away in 1995, and you said they were seen almost in our day towards the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency in the United States. Reagan obviously left office in the 80's so it makes no sense to relegate their life to an earlier time when they lived beyond that time frame. And yes, Irenaeus got Jesus' age wrong on account of a faulty interpretation of John 8:57. But to then make the claim on a completely unrelated topic that it is also suspect thanks to this error has yet to be extended to any other writer that I'm aware of. It's the 'Irenaeus treatment', as I like to call it. Let me ask you this, the reader if you're a preterist, have you ever misinterpreted a verse? If so, does that disqualify you indefinitely from ever making a true statement? Is everything else you've ever said automatically wrong thanks to your misinterpretation of a Bible passage? If the answer is no, then why is this supposedly the case with Irenaeus? Has every written statement by Josephus or others preterists rely on been proven factual beyond a shadow of a doubt? If there is just one error anywhere to be found in their writings, why wouldn't this be an automatic 'disproving' of everything else they stated? This is cherry-picking to the nth degree. Has a trusted relative or friend ever told you something they genuinely believed true that you later learned to be false? How, then, can you trust anything they say ever again? And why is Hegesippus never addressed by preterists? He recorded John's banishment under Domitian and not Nero. And he wrote this decades before Irenaeus ever did.
Irenaeus is an argument I don't bother with. It's an interesting topic of discussion, but it's not something I rely on either way. I used to be a futurist. I walked with the Lord through his Word from dispensationalism, which is so much harder to believe/defend than preterism, through the other millennial views until I arrived at preterism. I came to believe the Bible is fulfilled because of what the Bible says, not what others say it says. When it comes to John and Revelation, I believe it was written before 70 AD because of what the book itself says (along with the rest of the Bible). The INTERNAL evidence of the dating of Revelation is overwhelming. The EXTERNAL evidence seems to hang on the words of Ireneaus. Nothing against Ireneaus, and nothing against those true Believers that differ in their eschatology, but I trust the Word to interpret the Word, and the Word does a fine job. I don't understand why people go around calling preterists "heretics". Do we teach anything other than salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus? Do we not teach that we are 'resurrected' or made alive in Christ and will spend all eternity with him? So if the premillennialists have it right, is God going to condemn the postmillennialists? No. Of course not. So why is God going to condemn the preterists when they believe every word he ever said just the way he said it? Blessing in the name of Yeshua.
@@markthehammer3448 blessings to you too. Where preterism steps into heterodoxy can be a fine line, but full preterism with its lack of belief in Hell and the belief that Jesus will never return again to set things right in this world are both more than enough to step over the 'heresy' line but that's a whole 'nother topic entirely. "The EXTERNAL evidence seems to hang on the words of Ireneaus." That's actually not true at all, and it's an oft-repeated preterist talking point. I mentioned Hegesipus who wrote decades before Irenaeus ever did about John being exiled under Domitian and not Nero. Interestingly enough there was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. The overall predominant view since the first century in Christendom is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan. It wasn't until centuries after the original apostles had died that the pre-70 A.D. view came into being. Another major issue with a Neronic dating of Revelation is the fact that this has been the minority view in the scholarly sense. And you'll never, ever see a logical case to move dates around by 3 decades in the first century A.D. because records were kept well during that time period. No credible historian would say Nero ruled during the 30's A.D., or 90's A.D., or say that the apostle Paul was martyred 30 years before or after the mid-60's A.D., or say the earthquake at Laodicea was in 90 A.D. or 30 A.D. vs the actual date of 60 A.D., or that the Colosseum was opened in 110 A.D. or 50 A.D instead of 80 A.D, or that 1 Thessalonians was written in 20 A.D. rather than the early 50's, or Paul's journey to Rome taking place in 30 A.D. rather than 60, or that James the brother of John was martyred in 14 A.D. rather than the mid 40's, or that the book of Timothy was written in the mid 30's rather than the real date of the mid 60's. No one would attempt to put the mass suicide of the Jewish rebels at Masada from 73/74 A.D. to the 40's A.D., or the 100's. You can't change the approx. 9 A.D. date for Rome's defeat to the Germanic tribes under Arminius to 30 years prior or 30 years afterward. Can you claim the day of Pentecost as described in Acts took place in any decade but the 30's A.D. (late 20's A.D., absolute earliest if stretched, provided that the calendar miscalculated Jesus' birth by a few years)? Could Mt Vesuvius have erupted in 49 A.D. rather than 79 A.D.? The great fire of Rome in 34 A.D. rather than the correct date of 64 A.D.? I could go on and on. There isn't a single significant event that took place in the first century that you can move by 30 years. Not one. It just doesn't work to mess with Revelation's established dating. And since the early evidence for Revelation falls apart, the time interpretations of Jesus' supposed return in 70 A.D. have nothing left to stand on.
@@JohnnyDoe1012 The time interpretations of Jesus' return have nothing to stand on except the words of Jesus. Someone is wrong, and I doubt it's Jesus. If I am a heretic for believing the words of Christ written in His book, then I guess I'm a heretic. I'd rather die being called a heretic by man than assume the God of all creation didn't know what he was talking about and couldn't tell time.
So the 100lb. hailstones, worldwide pestilence, waters turned to blood, mark of the beast, Jersusalem split into three parts from an earthquake, moon turned to blood, sun darkened, and the rest of the seals, trumpet, and bowl judgements have already happened? Yeah right!!!!
You need to understand what those things symbolize, and yes, they happened in the Jewish War. Gentry explains them very well in his books, so well that it becomes unmistakable.
@Kelly Blevins.. I believe a lot of what the Preterist are saying scripture means, but the very issues you stated, I too believe that they haven't happened yet. Full Preterist can't have it both ways. Look these scriptures were fulfilled, seet how history matches up with it. Then explain away other verse through conjecture and scriptural gymnastics.
Kelly you know what these preterists are teaching is lies...they are twisting the WORD to suit themselves...Gentry is no better than John Smith for the mormons....we know better...pray for them Grace and peace to you Gilly wife of Mark
Actually, each point of the Apostles' Creed and Nicene Creeds are taken from the Bible and vouched for by universal church council, so as far as you and I are concerned, those are authoritative.
@@CanonPress Well, the Nicene Creed is beautiful until one reads the "one baptism for forgiveness". This has led many in Christendom to believe that water baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and salvation. The Apostles Creed is also beautiful. I grew up reciting this one. Many believe from this one that Christ went to hell, as in the place of eternal conscious torment. Most still do not understand that hell is the grave. One must also be careful with the word "catholic", which I understand to mean whole yet it lends itself to acknowledging the literal catholic church. God bless you.
Has the book of revelation already been fulfilled? When was the mark of the beast introduced to the world? When did we lose one third and then half of the earths population? What happened to the anti christ? The global religion? The jews fleeing to the wilderness? The abomination of desolation? The rapture of the saints? the image of the beast? the 144,000 witnesses? The angel proclaiming the gospel? The 2 witnesses? The days of Lot and Noah? The 70th week of Daniel? Am I missing something?
Full preterists believe all of Revelation is fulfilled. I'm a partial preterist and believe Revelation is fulfilled up to Rev 20:6, not the release of Satan from the abyss, the judgement when death and hades are destroyed in the lake of fire in Rev 20:7 to 15, or the new heaven and new earth coming down out of heaven from God in Rev 21:1 to 4.
As a former atheist, the only books I research are different versions of the Bible. I believe preterists think the gospel according to Christ has already been preached. It hasn't. Look up the word END. Endure to the end. Mt. 10:22, 24:13. Kingdom delivered up at the END. 1 Cor. 15:23-24. I don't know about you, but if God's kingdom is wars, and politicians, that's a convoluted kingdom. The coming kingdom of God, and repentance, IS the gospel. NOT the message/teaching of salvation. Calling the message of salvation the gospel, is another gospel, and thee be cursed for it. Mk. 1:14-15.
@james-cq3mi I see the mainstream of the faith in a process of collapse necessary for it to become a remnant. Rev. 12:17 I see the reason being failure to worship in truth, based on the embrace of Rome, while claiming to be reformed. I believe when Christianity is at it's smallest, the gospel according to Christ will finally be THE gospel, and he will return. The frustration is, it could be done now.
That is your presuppositions what does the bible say ..... am i not a Christian because im a full preterist? I am not a BROTHER? I dont understand alot of you Christians i accept you as a BROTHER in CHRIST even though i belive your very wrong
tonyteb you don't believe Jesus is coming back! The bible says he's coming back in like manner as we saw him leave. Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
***** The Bible is the only Truth of God. It is as it says. No way to break down the truth when it states it perfectly clear. Preterism is false teaching. Stick to the true gospel of God. Go re-read Revelations and pray for God to show you the truth, you'll see Preterism is complete garbage.
***** And him being the saviour, yes, but now you choose the path. You will be judged and teaching the wrong gospel gives you no access to His Kingdom.
Problem is, the Partial Prets like Doug have no "defeater" against Full Pret views that I have seen yet. All of the time statements, everything they were expecting seemingly had to happen then, if we are being consistent.
To me, what is the most interesting thing from the perspective of someone who is not a christian and comes from a more jewish background, is that the full preterism debunks completely xtianity from within. It's clear fomr the passages that preterists highlights(some of them are used by gnostics for their own purposes) that the early christians, not the Paul wing, but the ones who were opposing his gospel, actually believed the the end was close to them and that Jesus would come back within their lifetime. Yet, Paul in Tessalonians tells them that this would not happen till the present empire falls(meaning the roman empire, as interpretation of the book of Daniel) which only happened centuries later!!
You are conflating two separate issues with Thessalonians and Daniel. Daniel is just noting WHEN the "Stone" would break those world empires and establish God's everlasting empire, it wasn't at the end rather DURING the 4 world empire. Paul on the other hand is talking about the people that were persecuting the CHRISTIANS which is CLEARLY the Jews throughout the New Testament. That power was taken out of the way as a redemption from their persecutions in 70 A.D with Jerusalem's total destruction, exactly as Christ makes clear in Matthew 23 and 24. Romes persecutions of Christians only takes place decades after 70 A.D and a different matter completely.
So how does a preterist justify the book of revelations already be fulfilled? This is a bit of rhetorical question because I know it would require a ton of explaining. I’m sorry but the entirety of the world gathering itself under a single ideology wrapped up in a single united system lead by a single man has not happened. Also if preterism ends up being false and the book of revelation actually takes place, won’t all preterists completely miss what’s happening right before them?
Read 2 Thessalonians chapters 1 and 2 carefully, and you will see that the man of sin, would be judged at the coming of Christ, when He came in judgment to give the Thessalonian church rest from persecutors in their generation. It would hold no validity to think that the Thessalonians were not given rest from their persecutors( who were the unbelieving Jews persecuting the church of the first century throughout the whole empire) in the generation which they were living. To think that 2000 years later Christ still hasn't come in judgment to give those (Thessalonians) who were being troubled rest would be of no comfort to them. The man of sin was already at work in their day, and was consumed at the brightness of Christ coming in judgment.
The explanation is found in Matt 24:32-33 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." The fig tree is unique in that it fruits twice each season, first at the beginning, and again at the end. This tells me that the signs leading to the destruction of the Temple and the end of the Mosaic age in AD70 ("verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.") are a shadow of the time leading up to Christ's return. It has been fulfilled regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, and it is not yet fulfilled Christ's return. Also, since I have never met a "full preterist", I prefer the word "historicist".
@@Moodboard39 The Jewish world literally did end. That’s what Jesus was speaking about. That’s why he told them the signs to look for so they would know to flee to the mountains. It was a Jewish doomsday.
Ha, you found maybe the only "Ask Doug" not properly branded. This is Doug Wilson, one of Canon Press's authors (and a pastor for more than 40 years now).
The problem I have with preterism is that it ignores the parable of the fig tree. The blossoming fig tree is the main parable and sign that Jesus' return is soon, even at the doors! Israel was not blossoming in 70 AD, in fact it was cursed by Jesus just before His crucifixion and Jesus even declared them as "desolate." Luke 13, Matthew 21, Mark 11, Matthew 23:37-38. The fig tree is representative of Israel and other trees as other nations. Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:12, Isaiah 33:9. But Israel must be blossoming and not desolate, not withered when Jesus returns. This was not the case in 70AD. See Joel 2:22. This whole chapter is a 'Day of the Lord' passage which parallels Matthew 24.
Jesus also says there will be insane wars and chaos. So which is it? We weren't in Israel during the Roman war so we can't be so clear on all the minutia. Jesus was talking to that specific generation about specific things they would go through. The main thing for us is to get the big picture right. The Jews missed the first coming of Christ and sadly the Church missed the second coming. It is what it is.
@samuelspiel8855 I think Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain it. Israel will be brought back and be blossoming and thriving... and an enemy from the north will recognize it, find a weak spot, and attack Israel. But as opposed to the Babylonian invasion or 70AD, this time God will not permit Israel to be scattered as they had been in the past. Because as it says in Ezekiel 39:23-24 that Israel was scattered and given into the hands of their enemies because of their unfaithfulness... but according to this passage, after they have borne their shame and been left desolate for many years, God would remember His covenant and bring Jacob back and be jealous for His holy name, restore them, and not hide His face from them anymore. Amos 9 also prophecies something similar and says when God restores Israel in the latter days, they would be regathered out of all the nations and never be pulled up out of their land again. Amos 9:15
In these prophechies, Jerusalem does not fall. Zechariah 14:2-3, Isaiah 31:4-5, Matthew 24:28-31. "Where the carcass is, there the eagles will gather." Matthew 24:28, Isaiah 31:5, Hosea 8:1, Hosea 14. Whereas during the Babylonian invasion and 70AD, Israel was the dead carcass, it's reversed in the last days before Christ's return. Jerusalem is defended and the nations who attack it are destroyed. Who is the dead carcass? Joel 2:20. The northern army and its leader. Ezekiel 38:14-17, 39:17-20 Revelation 19:17-21. Luke 13. Parable of the fig tree. Matthew 24:32-35. God comes 4 different times expecting to find fruit. But the first 3 times He doesn't find any and each time results in judgment against Israel. 1. Exodus wilderness wanderings. Hosea 9:10. Wandered for 40 years and all except Joshua and Caleb perished. Psalm 95:10-11, Numbers 14:30-34 2. Babylonian invasion. Jeremiah the prophet spoke to Israel for 40 years, but they refused to repent and were overtaken by their enemies. 3. 70AD. Israel rejected their Messiah. Jesus Himself declared them desolate and cursed the fig tree. Matthew 21:18-19, 23:37-39. 4th time? Does He find fruit? Joel 2:22
Not a full preterist, but I do believe that the Olivet Discourse & Jesus's statement in Matthew 26:64 were fulfilled in AD 70.
He will Return! He hasn't yet! Don't belive those Preterists that say he has.
2 Peter 3
King James Version
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8👉 But, beloved, 👉be not ignorant of this👉 one thing,👉 that one day is with the Lord 👉as a thousand years, and 👉a thousand years 👉as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack👉 concerning his promise, 👈as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing 👉that any should perish,👈 but that 👉all should come👉 to repentance.👈
🚨10 But the day of the Lord 👉will come👈👉 as a thief in the night👈; in the which the heavens shall pass away with 👉a great noise,👈 and the👉 elements shall melt with👉 fervent heat, 👈👈the earth also 👉and the works 👈👉that are👉 therein
👉shall be 👉burned up.👈
11 Seeing then that 👉all these things shall be👉 dissolved,👈👉 what manner 👉of persons ought👉 ye 👉to be in all👉 holy conversation👉 and godliness,👈
12👉 Looking for and👉 hasting unto the👉 coming of the 👉day of God, 👈wherein the👉 heavens being 👉on👉 fire shall be 👉dissolved👈, and the👉 elements shall👉 melt with fervent heat?👈
13 Nevertheless we, 👉according to 👉his promise👈, look for 👉new heavens and a new earth👈👉, wherein dwelleth 👉righteousness.👈
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things,🚨👉 be diligent that 👉ye may be found 👈👉of him in peace,👈👉 without spot, and blameless.👈
👉15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother👉 Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath 👉written unto you;👈
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨👉17 Ye therefore,👉 beloved, seeing 👉ye know these things before, 🚨👉beware lest ye also, 👉being led away 👉with the error of the wicked,👉 fall from👉 your👉 own stedfastness.👈🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
18👉 But grow in grace,👈👉 and in the👉 knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 👈👉To him be 👉glory both now👈 and👉 for ever. Amen.
Mathew24:48-50
King James Version👇👇👇👇👇
48 👉But and if that 👉evil servant 👈👉shall say👈 in his heart, 👈👉My lord delayeth👉 his coming;👈
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 👉The lord of that 👉servant shall come in a day👈 when 👉he looketh not👉 for him, 👉and in an hour👈 that 👉he is not 👉aware of,👈
51👉 And shall 👉cut him asunder, 👈👉and appoint him 👉his portion with the hypocrites:👈👉 there shall be 👉weeping and 👉gnashing of teeth.👈
@@ivonnemeza5237He’s not saying Jesus won’t return. He said he’s not a full preterist.
What many full preterists do not acknowledge is that when the enemies of Christ (harlot, beast, false prophet) empowered by Satan, have all been defeated, then the next defeat to occur is that of Satan himself. That event is separated from the defeat of the original enemies of Christ by a thousand years (symbolic time period). This thousand years is quite pronounced in the text, and its significance cannot be ignored. Many people erroneously emphasize Rev. 20:4-6, but this is not the main event, the binding of Satan is the main narrative here. Satan is stopped from gaining new allies in destroying Christianity, during this thousand years. When briefly Satan is released, he returns to gathering more allies to do as he did previously, to attempt to destroy Christianity through persecution, but before he even gets to that point, Christ intervenes and Satan is destroyed by being thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet are. Evidently even today Satan is still bound. We will know that he is released when Christianity becomes powerless, by being surrounded by those who wish its demise. Some currently believe that we are seeing the beginning of those times.
@@larrymcclain8874what if Revelation was reiterating what had already happened and what was going to happen in the spirit world? Jesus said the strong man was bound in order to enter his house. He said right before the cross that now, his now, which was then, now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out and I if I am lifted up will draw all men unto me. And he was released for a short time, during the fall of Jerusalem, to cause chaos and judgment on the generation that crucified Christ. And the 1000 years was a quality of time, not quantity, when the disciples ruled on earth with Christ. What if? And why in Rev 22 are there sinners right outside the city gates of heaven? And whosever will, can come in and drink of the water of life freely? Maybe because it’s the kingdom of heaven that’s inside you, Luke 17, and it’s God’s new covenant with man that we have now on this earth. That’s good news to me. Just what if?
@@ivonnemeza5237 Christ said he would return in THAT generation, according to eye witness accounts he did, in the clouds - just like he said he would.
Being a Preterist, that is a perfect explanation. First book to read, “Last Days according to Jesus” R. C Sproul
I'll never understand how anyone can be a preterist, it turns the book of Revelation into the most meaningless gibberish ever put to paper. I've also notice how futile it is to discuss anything with a preterist. The only way to debunk it is to use scripture, but for the preterist the scripture NEVER means what it actually says, expect for one single time when Jesus said THIS generation. That is the only word in all of Bible prophecy they take literally, all other words are nonliteral and symbolic. ID the words of the text NEVER mean what they say, then you can never use a verse to debunk anything they claim and its pointless to even try.
RC Sproul was not a preterist
@@Darthblevins He was a partial preterist.
@@Orange6921 Do you believe that some things are symbolic and some are literal in Revelation?
thats "an " explanation of a man whose job and livelyhood and pension rely upon total pretersim not being true. Christianity which ended in 70AD with the amazing complete work of Christ has been nothing but a curse to mankind and has led to billions being murdered in the name of a book and a false god.
Partial preterism definitely has substance, but I personally just can't get on board with full preterism.
That's something we can't be dogmatic on.
We're currently in satan's season. The Millennial Kingdom's "rule of iron" was the Middle Ages.
I found Bruce Gore's very detailed YT lectures Apocolypse in Space and Time very comprehensive on understanding the book of Rev. He also sees Rev as being written pre 70 AD and he too had to be persuaded, before coming to that revelation.
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html
mathew 24 truth bomb
I do I agree with Preterism to a certain degree but disagree their conclusion. Revelation is not a preterism or futurism book. It's a book that describes the end of age to its fullness of the gentile. From the beginning of Jesus death to the end of the the world when the harvest happens. Preterism teaches that Jesus came a second time and that the earth will be full of believers according to the parable of the mustard seed. It's the same doctrine that the roman catolic teaches the world. Having a one world religion one world faith and believe. Jesus will come again and reign with us 1000years at the end of the age of piscis. No one knows when his second coming will be until it's too late.
@@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua thanks. Somehow only notified of your response today. God bless.
I agree Bruce Gore is absolutely superb on these topics.
It was a good series, but there is not justification to say the prophecy in REV. was fulfilled in 70 AD AND sometime in the future. MATT 5:18. It would be ALL fulfilled, not partial.
The 3 books Wilson mentioned are fantastic.... Read Wilson's "When the Man Comes Around", a great explanation of the book of Revelation.
Amen, this was a great explanation
Actually it wasn't
No examples or anecdotes, completely skirted the issue.
Thanks for the clarity and very intriguing topic.
I think the problem is that most American Christians somehow think that Preterism, whether full or partial, is somehow outside the realms of orthodoxy. This is NOT the case!
Read the first 80 pages of builder/developer Gary Cangelosi's "God's Kingdom on Earth and in Heaven" NAILS it. Shoots holes in all three prevailing views with solid exegesis and ante nicene fathers.
Who cares??
I agree with you 100%.
Full preterism is definitely outside of orthodoxy. Completely denies the second coming of Christ is yet future.
@@SavedByTheBloodOfChrist551 Agree 100%. I cringe sometimes looking back on comments I made a long time ago. Full Preterism is a gateway drug to Gnosticism and, as you said, denies one of the crucial tenets of the Nicene Creed.
I really loved this explanation. I am a partial preterist
No you’re not. There is no such thing. Why are you reading their script? We’re you alive in 2020?
@@cryptojoecoin5480Maybe you shouldn't be telling someone what they are and what they're not.
Me too. When I learned about Rome sacking Jerusalem in 70ad it finally made Christ's talk of "imminent" destruction make sense.
It looks very unorthodox but that is where scripture would take you,
It’s funny how that works. If you read scripture with a completely unbiased view orthodoxy doesn’t hold up so well.
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No gap was intended in the 70 wks of Daniel. We are lied to on the timeline.
Better to be Orthodox to God than Orthodox to man.
I would highly recommend "The Days of Vengeance: An Exposition of the Book of Revelation " by David Chilton / Dominion Press
The problem futurists have (and I was one) often breaks down to not understanding apocalyptic literary forms as well as a lack of historical perspective. I think there are some matters of eschatology that will always be a bit shrouded in mystery but that is not out of character for God to keep some things to himself.
Respectfully
The problem for preterists, is they reject God’s PERFECT start, and then reject His Perfect ending.
Which is clearly explained in Revelation.
You and I live in a world of exploding sin….God will end sin, and death….He just hasn’t yet.
But…..His coming is “soon”
And Has been SOON, for over 2000years.
@@jamesstumpff7774 every preterist I’ve heard seems to forget that every man is a liar and that historians are almost always liberal atheists who’s main goal is discrediting or disproving God, so of course they wanna confuse the hell out of people and cause then to lose their faith.
@@jacksonrelaxin3425 I just started studying preterists. It’s kind of like studying a math book and then proclaiming math doesn’t count unless you’re S Korean.
@@jamesstumpff7774 Amen brother. There is a major increase in "kingdom now" ideology and it is coming from all sub groups, minus one!
Within Reformed theology, we are seeing Theonomy being preached. They believe that they can bring about the kingdom by instituting God's law within governmental systems that we know presently belong to Satan until Jesus Christ returns and takes over all of them.
It is so abundantly clear that all of the events taking place is leading straight to a governmental system where order is restored and corruption eradicated. Most people will joyfully accept this false hope and be decieved. Only He can bring the kingdom and put an end to the madness! Amen!!!
@@jamesstumpff7774 Great analogy. It's like a movie with an amazing start, then an amazing "end" then like 8 hours of just random extra film that adds nothing to the story as people meander in and out of the theater trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Doug Wilson Rocks!!
I have the dvd he did with Christopher Hitchens as well as the debate with Dan Barker.
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Wilson was the best advocate for God against Hitchens, I've ever witnessed.
great explanation.
Agreed.
Good distinction. Full preterism is gangrenous
How so? Which scripture has been twisted to promote full Preterism?
Does it have gangrene? 😀
I am fairly new to this concept. I am reading Lynn Louise Schuldt's older book titled "Prophecy Paradox". In addition to referencing every claim made, she gives a lot of history on the Jewish Wars. Her's is a classic preterist book.
Historically, both Preterism and Futurism were part of the counter-Reformation led by the Jesuits.
Our Reformation forefathers were neither Preterists, nor Futurists.
It's why the Jesuits had to try and combat them on this issue.
Please look more deeply into these issues.
I lament that my bible-believing brethren are falling more and more into one of these two [fallacious] camps.
They (Preterism and Futurism) are and abandonment of the Reformation teaching on these issues.
Questions?
Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
Many verses say Yahshua was returning soon, in that generation, like in Matt 16:28, 24:30 to 34, and Rev 1:1 to 7.
And....how about Zecharia 14, where Jesus TOUCHES DOWN, and we come back with him?
Zecharia 14:4-5
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south...and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
There's also other things to consider. Ezekiel 36 hasn't happened yet, either. Remember way back when, when the Kingdom of Israel split into two kingdoms? The rejoining of kingdoms into one kingdom has yet to happen, and that is prophesied, as well. And ALL of the Jews must GO HOME to Israel, and REINSTITUTE the Temple Worship under the Law of Moses. Then the Book of Revelation can happen. We still have Jews in Hollywood, and all over the world.
Did you know that only a small fraction of Jews came back to Israel after their captivity from Babylon? Many stayed behind in Assyria, while others moved to various places, as visited by Paul, and Peter, and such. What year was the Babylonian Talmud finished? Why is it called "Babylonian"?
Much prophesy has yet to take place. Therefore, clinging to the word "Shortly" as if it means "in a few minutes" is not a good idea.
"The problem with Preterism is that is has great explanatory power. It explains a lot of passages very well."
That's a problem? 🙄
Preterism is false teaching.
Dustin Nuttall Awww; are you waiting to be raptured with the rest of the imbeciles?
FAITHandLOGIC Read the Bible. That's the ONLY true Word of God. God's Words destroys everything if preterism.
Dustin Nuttall thank you for a blanket statement that provides absolutely no examples. Now, I'll brace myself for you to provide verses out of context.
It is a problem for the dispensationalists because IT MAKES SPIRITUAL SENCE and they don't like something to make sense, they want people to accept their mind-boggling charts by faith.
Apparently Christ told His people He would return before some of them died did He not.?? And if He did not that would make Him a liar would it not..?
Some kind of a fancy word preterism..! The bible says He would return like a thief in the night and cause earth changes and move islands out of their places,, and one place it says He will be seen in the clouds and the dead would be raised up to meet him in the clouds and then the rest will be changed and beamed up or taken up to meet Christ in the sky and then this earth will be burned.. Do I have that correct.?
Good explanation. I would be interested in hearing more specific detail, which passages you believe have a preterist explanation and which don't.
That would be helpful.
Read Christianity's greatest dilemma by Glenn Hill or the last days according to Jesus by RC Sproul
There are none.
They can’t agree which passages are AD 70 and which ones are future. This was an objection raised by Gary Demar when Wilson’s mob asked him to clarify his views on eschatology recently.
What about: "Absent from the body. Present with the Lord?" II Corinthians 5:6-8
"Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
Whether "body" is individual physical body there, or corporate body of "the flesh"/being in Adam/not yet consummately "in Christ"'s inheritance, there's a legitimate longing expressed there of course. The latter, the fundamental (spiritual resurrection hadn't been consummated for those in Christ - there was a "now-not yet" to it. If the former, the same goes before the consummation of the latter. But a few other helps to note: Paul also explicitly says that the hope is not to be "unclothed" of body, but "clothed upon" - life condition bestowed. Second, he anticipated his physical death before the coming of Christ/covenant resurrection. In a very real sense, he himself was in a position of "filling up the sufferings of Christ" in his ministry. Peter, too, would die. (Perhaps the two witnesses in Revelation). Third, there was a very imminent sense of all this in their lifetime expressed, which is very clear when one sees it spelled out. Paul speaks to the Thessalonians in the expectation that some of them would not physically die before it. Even when he condemns the false teaching of some saying the resurrection had passed already, he never seemed to question their apparent spiritual sense of it per se - he never said, "don't be stupid..just look in the graves! And how could you possibly think that we're there!" He rather tells them the things that have to happen first. (The essence of saying the resurrection had come already was to commend the Mosaic system, i.e. Judaizers concept of Christ the Messiah, prophet, priest and king of a Mosaic/Judaic economy..Last, 2Cor 3-6 plus draw on the "New temple" motif of the OT - I.e. "we, the body of Christ, are that temple". This would be a full preterist understanding..and one that doesn't demean the physical body/equate it with "the flesh"/the body of sin.
My comment would have been more complete if I'd had said, too, that the tenor of spirit Paul expresses his words in isn't a wistful, other-worldly longing to be absent from his "now", but a powerful longing for both the "restoration"/"reformation"/"resurrection" in the context of already being confident and joyous and filled with the power of the Spirit to the degree that such believers were willing to die even before Christ came to be with him if that is what filled up Christ's sufferings in their body/honoured him. It was their honour and pleasure. Even when the time was very near/at hand to enter God's rest in consummate covenantal sense.To be absent from the earth before he came was to be nearer to him in a real sense. It was better while they awaited the best.
Do a study on the Greek used in that passage. Sometimes we forget that the New testament was wasn't originally written in English and its true meaning requires some digging.
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So many pitbull FP’s here. Brethren, if you are the ones in the possession of truth in this matter, feed us with the truth! Wisdom is peaceable, and some of you are only vindicating a contentious spirit.
I used to be able to debate topics and it's a great way to get a deeper understanding but the last year or two you can't talk to anyone about anything without being attacked. Perhaps a sign of the times.
"The problem is it explains you right out of the orthodox Christian faith" - we have a winner!
If you haven't studied the late Max R. King's work, The Cross and the Parousia", you really haven't seriously studied Preterism (Covenant Eschatology). Both R. C. Sproul and N.T. Wright studied eschatology under Max. With all due respect, none of the books mention even come close to decisely addressing the subject. For starters, Paul begins the resurrection saying Jesus died for our "sins" not for our "skins." He closes the chapter with the same theme forming an inclusio for all inbetween. I would be happy to have a discussion on the resurrection with a partial preterist or futurist.
I was looking for an actual response and I'm bummed by this answer. Full preterism wouldn't say that there's "no terminus". My understanding is that if it were true then we would obviously be living in the little season at the end of the millennial reign. If that were the case then we'd simply be awaiting the final judgement. How's that for a terminus?
I am beginning to suspect we are in the little season
@@VerseauZZlol, tartaria
Hmm... great explanatory power of full preterism vs association of the hammer and partial literal interpretation?
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“When you buy a new hammer, everything looks like a nail”.
I got to use that sometime 😁
Hyperbole, this generation knows what nails look like. Perhaps a better phrase would be: when you buy a new hammer, every surface looks like it could use a nail.
No sound person goes around thinking everything looks like a nail. And no, I'm not always fun at parties, only sometime ;D
What are your thoughts on Dr. Don Preston?
He speaks too fast that’s my opinion 😂
I love Don! His books are great and he’s a wonderful Christian gentleman.
Was Revelation written around 90 AD?
I would say more like pre 70AD
No. Why? Paul was the *LAST* to see Christ. Paul’s epistles *FULFILLED* (completed) the word of God.
Therefore John’s revelation was given & penned pre 60s AD before Paul died as Paul was the last to ever see Christ. And he completed the bible.
Hebrews to Revelation were penned before Paul completed his epistles.
Col 1:25 KJV
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to *fulfil* the word of God;
1 Corinthians 15:8 KJV
And *last* of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Using scripture only, here is used to discredit the 90s AD writing of Revelation and yet also proving it to be anytime before
I was a full preterist for years. It was only by the grace of God that my heart was softened. Otherwise I never would have known how far I had drifted. I now see full preterism as horrible. It strips the promises of Jesus right out of the NT.
I find myself slipping into full preterism, although against my will. Can you please help me by providing proof from scripture that it's a false doctrine. Thank you so much!
@@ajarrett2940 Right on. I don't know if it's possible to do it all in a youtube reply - but I will certainly try!
Full Preterism all builds on the premise that "The time indicators in prophesy are KEY in interpreting prophesy". So when Jesus says "This generation will not pass until all these things take place" the preterist jumps on that and says "So everything took place then, at that time, to those people, standing there, with Jesus, at that time, and thats it." Because "The time indicators tell us so".
But preterists do not apply that same premise to the rest of scripture.
In Genesis 22 Abraham prophesies to Isaac as they were going up the mountain saying "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burt sacrifice". So the question for the preterist is - was Abraham speaking about an event that would be fulfilled in Isaac's time or an event that would take place 2000 years later in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ? The account in Gen 22 has a father sacrificing his only son, the son even comes riding on a donkey (Gen 22:3, Zach 9:9, & Matt 21), the promise is that a lamb will be provided as a substitute,....it all seems to be pointing to Jesus. But it can't be about Jesus because Isaac was rescued in his day. Isaac saw Abraham's prophesy fulfilled. But we still have an issue - Isaac was not replaced with a lamb. He was replaced with a ram (Gen 22:13). So why did Abraham say lamb? We get the resolve in Hebrews 11:19
"[Abraham] concluding that God was able to raise [Isaac] up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense".
Isaac was a typological or figurative fulfillment of the prophesy (promise) that would be ultimately fulfilled in the person and work of Jesus Christ (His death and resurection). So when Abraham said "God will provide for Himself the lamb", Abraham was talking about something that would be fulfilled (though imperfectly) in Isaac's day but also fulfilled (perfectly) in Jesus' day, 2000 years later. So the fulfillment is both.
The same happens in Joshua's day. The text clearly states that every promise (prophesy) was fulfilled:
You know with all your heart and soul that not one of all the good promises the Lord your God gave you has failed. Every promise has been fulfilled; not one has failed. (Josh 23:14)
But then there did still remain a future fulfillment:
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. (Heb 4:8)
Although Isreal did see a fulfillment. The person and work of Jesus (~1,500 years later) was still the ultimate and perfect fulfillment of those promises give to Israel through Moses.
How do preterists look at the sign of the virgin given in Isaiah 7? God is clearly speaking to king Ahaz. All the time text indicators point to the fact that Isaiah is speaking to Ahaz and the house of David. Isaiah 7:14 reads "The Lord will give YOU a sign"; speaking to the people who were standing there. At that time. So the question to the preterists is - how is it then, that we take that sign, and apply it to an event that happened 700 years later?
In Matt 24:15 Jesus says "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel the prophet" Jesus is saying these words as being some future event. The problem is that the prophetic visions Daniel recieved concerning the abomination of desolations were already fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes 200 years before the olivet discourse (160s b.c.). So the question to the preterist is - how is Jesus saying that some prophecy of Daniel, which had already been fulfilled 200 years earlier, still have some future application?
Prophesy isn't just future telling. Prophesy is the testimony of Jesus (Rev 19:10). It will always have it's perfect fulfillment in the person and work of Jesus. The first century church saw a typological/figurative fulfillment of the NT promises but we still wait for that perfect fulfillment when Jesus Himself actually bodily returns.
I hope this helps some!
Not only the New Testament but the Old as well. Revelation 10:7, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Since we know that even Moses and Aaron were called prophets in the scripture, this verse covers a great amount of ground.
@@randomdude9758
So you’re saying that it may have been fulfilled in some sense in 70AD but there will be a second, greater fulfillment?
Are you saying that Matt 24 hasnt been fulfilled or some of it has?
@@evanu6579 My understanding is that all of human history is building up to and pointing to the return of the Lord Jesus Christ; which would include the first century church.
What are your thoughts?
I am a full preterist now and started out as a partial preterist, but I kept persevering with the more "difficult" aspects of the full position and I'll tell you it was worth it. For example, when you dig into studying the resurrection, you discover that the problem is not with the FP position but with the fact that (1) we have been heavily seeded with futurism and (2) we come face to face with a decidedly different culture (ancient Judaism) which is far different than our modern American culture. When you take a serious look at the "resurrection" in the New Testament it is saturated with a "spiritual' resurrection position. For example, "You died and your life is hidden with life in God." and "It is no longer I that live, but Christ." Salvation is resurrection! You died with Him and you were raised with Him. Jesus said the "flesh profits nothing." We're redeemed spiritually which is the center of the issue. From there you have the opportunity to overcome everything including physical death! Remember...Adam died spiritually instantly, but it took almost a millennium for his body to come to an end. There are good teachers on the more difficult aspects of the FP position and not so good ones, and also still more areas that need to be studied but as long as you keep with the two basic pillars: time stamps and audience relevance you will remain anchored. Keep on persevering. God bless!
@@thebeardedman-drenaline5546 Here's another verse:
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life…Romans 6:4,5
When we believe, we die with Christ, are resurrected with Him, ascended with Him and seated with Him! What Adam lost, we have NOW.
I'm so confused by this teaching, does it mean that this world continues forever?
@@pugalicious2419 Yes...there is no scriptural evidence for it's destruction. There are ages that it has passed through and more that it will pass through. The good news is that now that Christ rules we have full access to the the Father. He is now in the process of restoring all things. From Daniel: the whole earth will be full of the knowledge of theLord as the waters cover the sea.
@@gloryman3634 From reading the bible on its own and if I hadn't known the teaching that Jesus would return in my future I probably would have assumed it already happened based on scripture like the Olivet discourse, Matthew 16:28 and other examples. I think all I can do is continue reading to find the truth and to be honest, I wouldn't go as far as to say that full preterism doesn't have problems of its own based on scripture.
@@pugalicious2419 I would be very interested in the specific scriptures you found that clearly indicate that Jesus will come in the future.
Woah, Moscow, Idaho. small world!
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The bible or the creeds, pick your choice.
The Word of GOD(Bible).
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both
Amen.
I am a partial preterist thanks to Gary Demar and Hank Hanegraaff
Partial Preterists are still orthodox Christians, but Full Preterists cannot explain why death still occurs if death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire in AD 70.
Keep studying you will be full preterist before you know it
@@allthingsbing1295 so Jesus came back and the resurrection already happened? Death and Satan was cast into the lake of fire? Sounds like heresy
@@nicholaszenga4388 that’s not me talking, Yeshua told everyone when he was on earth that he would return in his generation. (First century). if you think he didn’t you are the one calling Yeshua a liar, not me
@@allthingsbing1295 so we have resurrected bodies like Yeshua HaMashiach? Why is the world still fallen?
I have been a full preterist for 20 years or more. :) When I buy a new hammer..............everything does not look like a nail. weird analogy you have presented.
You can't separate Daniel 12, from Daniel 9. And Mathew 24, the resurrection is from Daniel 12, Jesus and Paul's source of the resurrection doctrine, happens when the abomination of desolation is set up, also taught in Daniel 9 and 12 and Mathew 24, and that would all take place in Jesus generation Mathew 24:34.
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It certainly wasn't a "shiny hammer" in my experience. 'Twas very cautiously, even reluctantly approached, with a wide theological understanding essentially "Reformed", with justification by grace alone upon faith alone right at the heart of the gospel...Like many positions (e.g. "Reformed"), "full preterism" isn't monolithic, and I too am sensitive to certain concerns such is Christology. But here's the thing: every element of what put together equals Full Preterism has shown up in part in different Partial positions historically. And simply, there is no hermeneutic warrant for sorting NT passages into "AD70" vs "yet to be" that isn't begging the question. If you stick to redemptive historical covenants and a biblical redemptive history (yet with an awareness of the principles that are inherent in them per a sound understanding of "theological" covenants - again, not a monolithic treatment that latter) and realize that Paul, as he stated, preached "nothing but the hope of Israel" with regards "the resurrection" (Acts 24,26,28) and that that hope is the consummation/establishment of the New Covenant inheritance (resurrection from the Adamic curse having received post-Judgment justification by the gift of righteousness) - that the eschatology of all the Law and Prophets, Psalms, Job, synoptics, letters, epistles and finally Revelation is one and the same, and the timing and nature accord, there it is. For my part, I believe in the ongoing humanity of Christ, as well as his deity, and that the resurrection/kingdom inheritance won by virtue of the atonement subsists in Him. I also believe when those in Christ die, they obtain their physical resurrection body in consummate form, no gap. But just as our bodies cycle through a whole new set of cells/atoms every 7 years (quicker for many parts), so which set of atoms mixed with other things will a physical resurrection body so-dependent obtain(?) the biblical heart of the doctrine of resurrection has always been spiritual - that is, to be raised from the dead spiritually by virtue of justification unto reconciliation to God - so everything physical depends on that. It's not an either-or, it's a question of logical priority : obtain the spiritual seed, see the fruit in time. In essence, my view, while full preterist of a sort, even entails a (spiritual, gospel, not structures of this world) postmillenial-esque "increase"/manifestation of fruit. And the picture at the end of Revelation, per Isa 65,66 from whence comes the "New creation" language (and strong Partial Preterists like Edwards called this present earth a new [covenant] heavens and earth, too) isn't the same as what is demanded by a "what appears" reading and expectation. But it is representative of a covenantal reading. In reality, seen properly, in my eyes this is the furthest view from a Gnostic/Platonic Dualist conception of soteriology, eschatology, and anthropology, very much in tune with the ancient Hebraic and Old Testament conception of "the body" (both personally - "man is a body who has been made a living soul/spirit, not a spirit who has a morally corrupt body" - a frequent asceticism in theology - and corporately - "in Adam"/the body of death/sin/a broken covenant of works - "in Christ"/raised, alive from that death, a covenant of grace"). That is, rather than foisting an essential dichotomy between the spiritual and the material, it makes the distinction properly, and grounds the physical properly in the spiritual. No disjunction or "second redemption", as it were, for the physical. And an ongoing salvation of people, an ongoing living fellowship with God in Christ (no veil of the Law after judgment!, tabernacles fulfilled) and grace upon grace as new creations for eternity (forever time not a "disjunct" from "time"). It is supposed to be better in our experience and conception today, I believe, and eschatology is not supposed to be fractured, complicated, and all over. It's just meant to be understood as the redemptive history of soteriology, the establishment of the covenant kingdom of Christ with the Father, saved man raised as sons, heirs of God, joint-heirs with Christ, with a glorious future and ongoing fruit of it because of a finished redemption.
PS: one of the books that was helpful to me as I considered these things was the same book that was helpful to RC Sproul become a strong Partial Preterist : the Parousia, by James Stuart Russell. If you take the sine qua non of "Full Preterism" as "past judgment/"coming of Christ" (and judgment/vindication was the anticipation and the "bar" which every person had/has to do with, not "investigation" - something many a reformed, non-full preterist would agree with in essence), then JSR was an (inconsistent) Full Preterist per that book.
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Holy word salad batman. Explain Jesus repeatedly, explicitly, plainly saying his return was imminent. Any way you bend this will be bending his speech far more than the preterists bend the prophetic language. Preterism is therefore more coherent. We're currently in satan's season. The Millennial Kingdom's "rule of iron" was the Middle Ages.
Exellent job of explaining the terms...Can you give me your thoughts regarding our biblically honest responsibility to each other,how we interact with those who we may not be in 100% doctrinal agreement with(everybody!) versus what I see as condemnation/judgement for even questioning the status quo doctrines? The extremism on both sides of futurism and preterism scare the hell out of me...frankly. Thanks! Mike
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I'm full preterist and have been for a few years. One scripture that is causing me problems is 1 Tim. 2:14. "Creation of the world" is always associated with a covenant established by God with his people. It is shown with Israel, and in the New covenant. However, Paul seems to be taking a literal interpretation of Genesis in stating that the woman was not created first and was deceived. I believe in evolution and so the exact date there was a delineation of male/female would not be in the same era as humanity's struggle to hold to their moral obligation with God. Am I missing something?
God created Adam out of the dust, and "dust" can mean "multitudes of people". The "dust of Judah" means his descendants, "Jehu was exalted out of the dust", armies can be brought out of "the dust that remains of Samaria" and Solomon says his subjects "are like the dust of the earth". When Adam was cursed, God took him out of Eden and returned him to "to till the ground from whence he was taken". He was sent back among the gentiles, with the breath of God still filling his lungs and the fruits of the two trees still in his belly.
Eve on the other hand was created out of Adam so they would complement each other. They are made of the same substance.
If you are interesting in engaging on the topic of preterism I have a commment above explaining how the fig tree of Matt 24 points to a dual fulfillment in AD70 and in the future. I prefer the term historicist as I see prophecy being unsealed by historic and future events.
@@FozzyBBear ? It clearly says Adam is the first person made. The first human. What is with all these symbolic scripture mental gymnastics? Your just adding words and taking words from scripture.
@@joshisraelvillahermosa2680 that's how they do it. They pick and choose what they want certain things to mean.
gotta check all possiblity. Read on MBTI functions:
1. If it happend, where the new earth, heaven, judgment?
2. If It didnt happend, well, was jesus a false messiah apocalyptic preacher?
3. if is future, dont make sense, because the disciples and Paul expected a imminet return. Why would israel return back, and go through the trib? lol does that make sense?
I've been looking into Preterism lately and I have noticed that some full preterists seem to be verging on some unusual beliefs. Full Preterism as I understand it means the devil has been defeated and there is no activity today, only human evil. Some preterists argue satan, devil is not a real person and the only evil is perpetrated by man.
Full preterists are very wrong and they give partial preterists a bad image. Dispensationalism, the most popular view of today, to me is borderline cult like.
Satan is the word used if im not mistaken, but belive what you like.
Everything they see in scriptures is symbolic, full of interpretation which leads to the wrong scripture or a scripture being added or taken. They all do scripture symbolic mental gymnastics.
If Death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire in AD 70 why do we still see physical and spiritual death today? Yes the FP position states that the only evil today is the evil of the human heart. So what was accomplished on the Cross? If all things were fulfilled in AD 70 is the Bible just a history book? Why do we still celebrate Holy Communion? If we're in the Age to Come why are we still seeing marriage taking place?
Satan is definitely real. See Job.
Mt 16:27-28 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Amen!!!
Hi Mike, I am a partial preterist. Are you the same?
"Partial' 3-4 days a week, 'full' (like Don Preston) the rest of the time. Seriously, I do kinda go back and forth, probably depending on who I'm mostly listening to at the time.
@@MrMurfle Take the plunge! : ) It's all written right on the pages.
The verse 28, means the transfiguration.
I feel sorry for people with no hope.
*Historicism is biblical*
Declaring *the end from the beginning* and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
{Isaiah 46:10}
“Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”
{Revelation 1:19}
Prophetic continuance is histrorisim.
This video only furthers my belief in full Preterism, thanks.
I know right? Some very intellectual dishonest statements made by Doug here. I feel like Doug knows the second coming was in 70 ad as the Bible clearly teaches. But the resurrection was to happen at Jesus second coming, for some reason Doug dishonestly separates the second coming and ressurection
So where in the timeline of the Bible or history do preterists think we are? The millennial kingdom, the new heaven and earth or what? Because if you believe we’re in the millennial kingdom, Isaiah clearly describes that time as “the wolf will lie down with the lamb and the lion will graze with the ox. So, let’s take a trip to the zoo and we’ll see what happens when you get in the cage with a lion or wolf. And Isaiah also states that mortal humans will live to be 100 years old and infants will not die unexpectedly. Well, that isn’t true either. And if preterists believe we’re in the new heaven and earth why is the old one still here because in the book of revelation is states that the old heaven and earth will melt with a fervent heat and be fed forever and there will be no more sickness, death or sin.
@@rpdbaeaphcmp4229Crickets 🦗
@@rpdbaeaphcmp4229This is actually easy to explain but it’s been awhile since your comment and you probably don’t care. Unless you’re like me, this bugs the crap out of you and you need an explanation. Which is how I came to full preterism.
Preterism is true. Doesn't do away with the Church.
He said that full preterism does because of what it makes of the risen body and the second coming of Christ.
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It's a lie
I believe that the second coming of Jesus is when He saves us. A lot of the scripture that is considered to be about the end of time fits perfectly with Jesus’s death and resurrection. I don’t discredit any views though. In reality, the only thing that matters is that we’re saved by grace and have a personal relationship with Jesus.
Romans 5:13- "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account."
This means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today.
Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 11 Thess 2 : 33.
Exactly, and futurist or as known dispensationalism or premillennialism is the biggest deception sold to the church. The devil used Margaret MacDonald and John Nelson Darby to deny the full fulfillment of scripture in the 1800’s.
Well said.
I'm also a partial-preterist.
I believe that the great tribulation ended in the 1st century but that the rapture/2nd coming of Jesus will happen
in our future when the world is judged by fire. The Church will be saved from the wrath to come.
Full-preterism is extreme and destroys the hope of bodily resurrection and the new heaven and earth.
I'm a new partial-preterist. Just put things together a month or so ago. So far what you stated is close to where I'm at. There are still some things in the Bible that need fulfilled yet.
@josh Well, the enemies of God must be made a footstool for his feet, the world must grow in further submission to Christ, and of course, the last enemy, death must be defeated at the return of Christ.
Full Preterism might have some value to the mindset it offers of Christ's kingdom established, but it must acknowledge that if it is true, the current world fully in bondage to the curse of sin, riddled with evil, pain, death, suffering, wars, corruption, will never ever be liberated. Full Preterists say, "It has been liberated! Spiritually!" But my friend, if there is no end to sin in God's glorious creation, there is no culminate victory for Him.
Honestly, look around at the world, and ask yourself, "does this make sense, for God to leave things the way they are? To allow evil and sin to just keep going and going?" Scripturally, I don't think it does.
If the great tribulation has already happened, then why aren’t we already gathered up at the Coming of the Son of Man?
Matt. 24:29-31; 1 Thess. 4:13-18
josh I agree! I believe we will be gathered up after the Great Tribulation and deception of the antichrist/son of perdition. Matthew 24.
There is never a mention in any part of scripture that states a physical bodily resurrection.
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
I am following partial peterisam
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This is one man’s view of preterism and not what all preterists (full, hyper, partial) believe.Dr John Noe is an excellent source for explaining preterism.Some others are Gary DeMar, Dr Lynn Hiles and Don K Preston.
What do you think he's leaving out? I mean obviously it's just an introductory video... but we're big fans of DeMar ourselves.
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“But full preterist is the shiny hammer that makes everything look like a nail. It thinks because it has great explanatory power here, here, here, and here, it explains absolutely everything. We’ll the problem is it explains you right out of the orthodox Christian faith.”
If it explains everything, and explains you right out of the Christian faith, maybe the “Christian” faith or religion we have today isn’t right? Maybe we’re trying to inject ourselves into Israel’s redemptive story? Maybe we are trying to apply the redemptive plan for Israel to us today?
What it sounds like you’re saying is….since it explains so much, and it doesn’t fit into my paradigm, it must be wrong.
To be blunt, the so-called "partial-preterists" may just as well be called "futurists". Either you believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (Preterist view) or you don't believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (Futurist view).
I get your issue with the explanation, but the same can be said for futurism.
All Christians must be partial futurists, not just partial preterists. There are prophecies we must insist are yet to be fulfilled: the bodily return of Christ, the resurrection of the dead, final judgment. So that makes us all partial preterist. Likewise, there are prophecies we must insist have already been fulfilled: the coming of the Messiah. So that makes us all partial futurist.
Hypothetically speaking, if I was a futurist, believing that Revelation was entirely yet to be fulfilled, but then I started putting all of scripture into the future, I’m out of the Christian faith, because now Jesus can’t be the Messiah anymore. I’m basically an apostate Jew.
I don’t call myself a “partial preterist”, because I believe it gives the heretical preterists too much validity, and it gives brothers who disagree with us reason to say we’re on the road to heresy. It’s basically propaganda, and I can, with the same amount of basis, make a case that futurists are constantly in danger of explaining themselves out of the faith just by being futurists.
One should want to be honest with the text to the point of being open to a preterist interpretation… not to necessarily use preterism (or futurism or anything else) as an interpretive tool.
The Bible is the story of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant Law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today. Here's more...
If you believe the Bible, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
You'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the Old Covenant Law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away.
You'd have to agree with history, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70.
You'd have to agree with Paul, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today.
You'd also have to agree with Hebrews 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today.
The bitter pill of truth is that nobody has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible.
"But...but...I'm gentile!" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who had been dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort.
Today's self-appointed, self-professing "Christians" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a Law that passed away...and need a savior who said he came for someone else...who will save them from a sin that's already been removed...and a judgement that already happened...and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and are not part of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible.~Michael Bradley
Stop hijacking & inserting yourself into ancient Israel's redemptive narrative, the Bible.
The Bible: It's Not About Us Today!
@@josephrohland5604 Well said!
@@josephrohland5604 What a liar you are. So I guess the apostolic fathers, such as Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp, who either knew an Apostle or knew those taught of them, who clearly continued in preaching and promoting the faith well after 70AD, were clearly in error. And I guess the Apostles and church fathers who were careful to pass down all they had received must have had a momentary slip up in memory, seeing as how the preterist heresy is found nowhere in the writings of the early church...except when being condemned by them. All you are is a lying, antinomian antichrist, deceived, and doing the work of the devil. But I take heart in the knowledge that the elect of God will never, ever believe you. You have already lost.
Is 2 Timothy 2:17-18 Preterism?
2 Timothy 2:17-18
Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some
And also
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thessalonians 2:3
What I'm confused about is if its already happened where's the new heavan and new earth. Why is there still sin lol???
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To be blunt, the so-called "partial-preterists" may just as well be called "futurists". Either you believe "all things" were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (the Preterist view) or you don't believe all things were fulfilled in 70 A.D. (futurist view).
As a futurists I agree.
Actually the Historical view is consider when you believe some was then and everything after Rev. 6 is an unfolding of history into the future.
Futurists believe it’s all prophecy of the future.
Partial-futurists
Full preterists have to shorten the millennial reign from 1000 years to make their theology work.
@@solitairecat1 1,000 years is simply symbolic for fullness or completion. Peter reassured the 1st century audience who were growing impatient that Christ's return had not happened yet, that a thousand years is as a day. Jesus said He would return in that generation. A generation in the Bible is 40 years and He returned 40 years later in judgement on the Harlot city of Revelation, which was Jerusalem. It's much easier to believe that 1,000 years represented fullness and fits into the first century, than to believe Christ is yet to return in our time. Believing that Christ is yet to return is basically calling him a liar. He said it would all be fulfilled in the generation of the first century. The time statements are clear
With all that is happening in the world today...how can anyone say Matthew 24 has already happened.
Who decides which interpretation is the right one? I struggle with the textual historians who date the book of Revelation in the early 90’s and those who date the prophecies of the temple destruction in 70 A.D. ?
Yes it is very interesting that Doug appeals to the creeds and church history to refute full preterism rather than the bible.
Partial preterism is fundamentally flawed. I've read all those books Doug mentions and the theology within them is so inconsistent it boggles my mind that the relevant authors could have written them and not see it themselves. Tradition and orthodoxy are very powerful things.
Seriously, when will those of the Reformed tradition begin living up to the call of 'Sola Scriptura'?
yes it is bud
This just shows that sola scriptura is flawed. It's not even in the bible, so it fails to meet its own standard.
Preterism has answered most of my questions concerning eschatology and I am grateful for that. Futurism to me is a fairy tale and it has caused much harm throughout the ages. All these false prophets predicting 'the end' and the 'anti-christ' has caused fear and confusion. God is not the author of confusion but liars sure are. Peace
***** I'm an Orthodox Christian. We also believe scripture to be completely infalliable? IF that's what sola scriptura truly means, you should have no issue with veneration of saints.
Scripture interprets scripture.
Decent explanation and I know this is a short video but we have to be careful combating what the Bible says with how church history interpreted it. Church history does not have the same authority as the Bible; everything has to go back to the Bible so though it is true that the historical church did not hold the preterist view this does not make it untrue. I would encourage listeners to look at it Bible verse by Bible verse and compare the different views Bible verse by Bible verse I would also recommend getting a literal translation such as Young's translation or Green's translation because a lot of translations tend to be translated along doctrinal issues and are not word for word translations of versus that demonstrate preterism to be true such as time indicators found in the Bible. They are often simply removed because the church can't explain them; a great place to start is Matthew 10:23 where Jesus is telling his apostles that they won't be able to make it out of the cities of Israel before he returns.
Full interview?
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (Jesus was referring to the generation that would be gathered in the caught up event with the Elect by Angels)
Right, many events were fulfilled at 70AD (the Rapture isn't going to happen), but Revelation (for one) clearly has unfulfilled prophecies as well.
@@CanonPress Thy faithlessness has made thou unwhole.
Revelation has no unfulfilled prophecies. Jesus said the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies would be the sign that all things which were written were about to be fulfilled Luke 21:20-22.
The destruction of Jerusalem was execution of the judgment. The judgment in Revelation is not the judgment of the world but the Jews. They are the ones who rejected Christ, crucified him and asked his blood be upon them and that of their children. Matthew 27:25.
Jesus made it clear that it is the twelve tribes of Israel that would be judged in Matthew 19:28.
In Revelation 20:4 you see this fulfilled when judgment was given to the saints to judge the ungodly.
The Bible is about the Hebrews from start to end. So if you read it with that understanding, it will make complete sense to you.
@@tanyushey246 Jehovas Witness much?
@@CanonPress 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? note
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
"We" your rapture generation included Peter and his audience. Did God Create the new heaven and earth after your preterist rapture? The coming of the Day of God as a thief in the night...
Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
So the problem is that it is not consistent with tradition. Riiiight.
Thats what hes saying gotta go with what man says
That's an interesting interpretation.
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Revelation could not have possibly been written before 70 A.D., which would have placed John's vision around the time or shortly after Paul was still writing his epistles to the church. John was an old man in the 90's so he would not have been an old man in the 60's A.D., and Nero had no interest in exiling Christians but loved murdering them. Why would Peter and Paul die under Nero's reign while John didn't?
And what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels.
The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to switch this around by 3 decades? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 63 A.D. let alone 34 A.D.
A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation.
2 Corinthians 3:7-11 and Hebrews 10:9-10 both clearly show that both the Old and New covenants could not have existed side-by-side. The Mosaic law had long since finished by the time of the 2nd temple's destruction. Even Hebrews 8:10-13, which preterists love to quote, says the Mosaic law had already become obsolete so it's impossible for it to have still been 'growing obsolete' at the time of it's writing pre-70 A.D.
Many Old Covenant saints came out of their graves for a short time after Jesus resurrected and appeared to a lot of people (Matthew 27:51-53). One could reasonably infer that they testified about who Christ is while they walked the earth again for a short time. Christ is the end of the Mosaic law for all who believe in Him. There was nothing left to still be in effect after the cross. The laws of purification were superseded by the Jesus' blood. There is no longer a requirement to stone those who don't celebrate the Friday night to Saturday night Sabbath. Those who celebrate the Jewish feasts and holidays are on equal footing with those who don't (Romans 14).
What was left to still be in effect for about 40 years from the cross until 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem? Sacrifices? Jesus was the last sacrifice, and there was nothing forgiven under the animal sacrifices that took place after the cross. To say otherwise is blasphemous to what He accomplished for us.
The animal sacrifices after the cross until 70 A.D. were not authorized to forgive sin and were an insult to the cross. Remember Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10 when they brought unauthorized sacrifices? They died horribly, by fire. No such thing took place after the cross. Why is that? It's because the Mosaic law was finished, and the New Covenant of grace was in effect and showing mercy to give them time to repent in Jerusalem before it fell. Had the Old Covenant somehow still been in effect, there would have been mass casualties at the temple since Jesus was the only way to forgiveness going forward.
No real evidence for a pre-70 A.D. dating of Revelation, a position in diametric opposition to nearly 2000 years of overwhelming scholarly consensus of a post-70 A.D. writing, and no way for the Mosaic Law to exist alongside the New Covenant... A very, very shaky foundation indeed.
@royal priest II Opinions 3:16?
@Custom Made
"The mosaic law was done away at the cross but the Pharisees were still doing their temple sacrifices until the temple was destroyed. None of those sacrifices counted for anything."
you just defeated your own preterist doctrine by saying the Mosaic law was done away with at the cross.
True preterist view states that it was still in effect, albeit in a diminished form, up until the 70 A.D. judgment of Jerusalem. If you truly believe that the Old Covenant was not existing side-by-side with the New Covenant, then you are not a preterist.
@royal priest lol, I was being facetious :) There's no time stamp in the Bible itself. The pre-70 A.D. view did not even come into existence until centuries after all of the original apostles had died. The predominant view from the first century onward is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan.
Interestingly enough there was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. Also, do you have nothing to say about my original comment itself? If not then I'll just take that to mean you have no way of refuting the facts that I've presented.
@royal priest verification of what I've said isn't difficult. Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance is another entirely. Look up the 1995 Patmos celebration for yourself.
Look up Hegessipus in the mid-2nd century and how he wrote decades before Irenaeus about John being exiled under Domitian and not Nero. See how Victorinus and Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicious Severus, Primasius, for starters all stated in the centuries before the first Neronic datings appeared that John was exiled under Domitian. 6th and 7th century writings are the earliest attempts to rewrite history. Literally all of them before that commonly accepted the Domitianic dating and not the Neronic dating.
You've also failed to respond to any of my challenges. Can you find a single historical event that is moved around by 30 years in the dating and presented as credible from the first century A.D.? Can you? Because that's what preterism tries to do with Revelation.
@royal priest If you discredit every written word outside of the Bible itself then you'd better be consistent with that. Make sure you never read a history book, an autobiography, any other book or historical document and think of them as anything other than fiction since those aren't Scripture. Do you believe World War 1 and 2 took place? If so, then why? Did you read some accounts or watch documentaries about them? Those aren't in the Bible, so how can you trust that they happened? Was it hearsay from supposed veterans who were there?
I'll take your refusal to answer my challenges as your inability to do so.
He doesn't seem familiar with the IBV fullpret movement but rather the syncretistic view proposed by Max King
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The Old Testament foreshadows things to come in the New Testament. That's why they look alike.
For example: the substitutionary sacrifice for the son of Abraham,
a ram/lamb (Jesus on the cross), the disasters/plagues in Egypt (wrath of God), persecution of the prophets/Christians (tribulation worldwide), the flood (wrath/end of the world, of God)
In the Old Testament many events on a smaller scale, and in the future on a LARGE scale. Similar to the contractions increasing.
I was a full preterist (very briefly) about 20 years ago. If you are interested in checking out my channel, I refute the full preterist heresy extensively and definitively by submitting numerous proofs for a 70 AD start to the millennium. I also do a thorough critique of J.S. Russell’s and Dr. Duncan McKenzie’s position on the New Heavens and New Earth. I also look at a few partial preterist incongruencies.
I’ll check it out. Thanks.
This is great, but I've never seen a Partial Pret explain how they divide this out since every time statement, and I mean every one of them were all for that generation, audience, etc...This is why people who see the Partial view are forced by the time statements to figure out if perhaps the resurrection is not exactly what we think it is. Doug should really take a deep look at this, and produce a video of how he knows and where he finds, the cut off, otherwise, its just arbitrary and makes Partial Prets error in the same way other futurist do.
But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
- 2 Timothy 2:16-18
What changed in 70 AD that could possibly be termed a resurrection?
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 Thanks for the question, too much to go into here, but it was invisible, Josephus mentions some very strange phenomena, and Tacitus.
There are good Full Preterist books that go into detail, plus a careful study of 1st Cor 15 leaves me believing whatever the resurrection body is, its not "selfsame", its still us, but not in the way tradition would have it.
A good You-Tube channel is Berean bible church, you can find full sermons from this perspective. I'm not 100% convinced, but I am leaning this way. Thanks
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 ironically, modern day hymenaus and philetus are teaching the resurrection hasn’t happened yet.
@@mcgragor1
Just because strange phenomena occurred, that doesn’t override the clear Scriptural teaching that our mortal bodies will be given life and conformed to be like Christ’s body.
@@justanotherbaptistjew5659 But we must take what is very clear first, then figure out the rest-right? Its clear Jesus was coming back then, to THAT generation, and of course, He did, right now Gary DeMar is being persecuted (mildly so far), for just asking questions and that is what we need to do. God-bless
Question to full preterists.
What are the consequences of not believing in christ.???
As an atheist, what do i miss out, or what do i face, if i dont believe in christ / bible??
Well, some of us Preterists are IO, Israel Only...we see no one today included in the bible story...only ancient Israelites that met their end in AD70. Jesus himself said he came ONLY for the lost sheep of Israel.
You aren't preterists at all. Just idiots.@@duanedahljr1669
@@BertGraef so you don't read the bible then? No worries man.
@@BertGraef anyone who is anybody knows that if your not "under the law" then your not under condemnation. Who's the Idiot now?
then go and kill and steal and rob and cheat, if theres no "law" you moron.@@duanedahljr1669
It explains everything because it allows scripture to interpret scripture which is what it's supposed to do, and it does not explain right out of the Orthodox church, let's not forget the core tenets of our faith which is the finished works of CHRIST ON THE CROSS and the great commission commandments, problem is dispensationalists put all their eggs in the eschatological basket which is why they keep date setting and always end up pushing the dates forward it's redundant and rediculous imo
The main reason why Christians argue against preterism is because it shows that the Bible is dealing up to 90CE, and not past that point. Full preterism follows the original context of the Bible, while others redefine it fit their particular viewpoint, and preterism does not get new members, nor does it sell books as well.
Question to full preterists.
What are the consequences of not believing in christ.???
As an atheist, what do i miss out, or what do i face, if i dont believe in christ / bible??
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" This generation will not pass away..." IMHO Jesus simply means, " The generation I am speaking of..."
Then He would have said "THAT generation."
But if the hammer works might as well use the hammer.
Partial preterism is the Way to go!!! Hallelujah!!!
@@keithelrod777 how do you explain rev 20? Has that coming happened yet?
Rev 20:4 KJV And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
@@williambrewer Hi William!!! We must first realize that the First Resurrection already happened (Matthew 27:52 to 54). Then we see everyone in Heaven right now in Hebrews 12:22 to 24. Notice the Firstborn from the First Resurrection are listed separately from the spirits of the Righteous made perfect. If you die between the Two Resurrections you are a spirit in Heaven. The souls beheaded are spirits in Heaven right now. They get their Heavenly body later at the 2nd Resurrection.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😊😊
@@keithelrod777 okay, well that would mean it was only Old testament saints that were part of the first resurrection, right? After all, rhe new covenant was just being ratified, so you can't say New testament believers were part of a 30AD resurrection.
But my contention would be why are these praised as having not received the mark of the beast? And how can they be "souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus"?
I would understand the saints who went into the holy city as just a sign of the Lord's resurrection. This is the same kind of resurrection as Lazarus or Tabitha. Not a resurrection to a glorious body.
To me, it seems to fit better to put Revelation 20's first resurrection corresponding with Christ 70AD return (with the "dwelling places" he had prepared, see John 14, albeit inviable Rev 21:11, 18, 21). The Thessalonians passage seems to link resurrection and rapture together as well. Paul was looking forward to the rapture and so were all the other christians. I think Paul even got raptured, he says to Timothy that God would preserve him to his heavily kingdom.
That means the thousand year reign ended about 1070. Satan was released for a few hundred years.
Fire came down (Reformation) and his armies.
Now we are back to millennial conditions- Christ reigning from The invisible City.
Tongues and Interpreting
" Preterism is a Metaphor for Messiah crucified , 666 died , went to Hades cooled the fires , rose from the dead , and ascended on high IS imputed to true Jews in Jerusalem "
This is the true statement
" Salvation is Israel "
" Elijah is the Head of true Christianity - the Holy Catholic Church - Messiah's new name is Solent " Son el t. Or Son of God, the Cross. Preterism.
"everything thing looks like a nail" in not a rebuttal of full preterism. I like Pastor Wilson, Ken Gentry and others they do some fine teaching but their poisoning the well with "Hyper-preterism" / "unorthodox" statements is again not a rebuttal. It is mind boggling the same men who teach sola scriptura appeal to "Christian Orthodoxy" what ever that may mean. Or appeals to "church" history or the "creeds". In every other area they teach the bible alone is our standard but in this area they appeal to "orthodoxy".
sum more pp here
Doug, it's time to become a full-preterist. There are no holes. Sola Scriptura or Sola Creedo?
Boom! nailed it!
We're currently in satan's season. The Millennial Kingdom's "rule of iron" was the Middle Ages.
His argument against it is actually an argument for it. It wasn't a real argument. "This makes too much sense so it must be wrong"?
The real question is did anyone living throughout the bible ever know and read a prophecy and then it come to pass exactly like they thought it would? So it seems that God is probably going to perplex us and confound us all isn't he?
I am an Amillenialist in the sense that most things have been fulfilled. However, obviously Jesus has not returned yet. If you look at this as an apocalyptic book and that we must understand that it had to make sense to the 1st century readers first, this book will make more sense. It frees you from thinking every new event is the mark of the beast when you are able to see it as most things being fulfilled in the time of the first readers.
Preterism DOES have answers. See www.GaryDeMar.com
1/4 of the whole earth have not been killed by war, famine and pestilence.
Therefore revelation 6 is still future.
The book of 2 Esdras chapters 11-13 tells us that we are near the end of the Short Season. The wings of chapter 11 are US presidents Hoover through Clinton. Most of the prophecies of the book of Revelation have already been fulfilled.
Analysis, proofs, dates, and timelines at my YT channel.
The Olivet prophecy was fulfilled within the first century or none of it was.
That prophecy foretold of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans and the parousia of Jesus Christ happening at the same time. One was a outward physical sign of the other which occurred in the spirit realm. Jesus said that. Why do people have such a difficult time believing it?!!
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html more truth here
I’m am not a partial Preterist , I’m a Preterist just like Gary Demar is. Same camp
That puts you and Gary into the Heretic camp.
@@randyl74”Anyone who I disagree with is a heretic”
So if the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the first century, are we saying ALL the tribes of the earth saw the sign of the Son of Man in the heavens and He sent His angels out to the four corners of the earth, from one end of the heavens to the other, then why don't historical writings from around the world speak of the greatest event since the flood? Did Jesus already sit on His Glorious Throne judge the nations(sheep and goats) were all Christians take to Heaven back in the first Century? What about us Christians today? Are we waiting for a Third Coming? Did the Millennial Reign already start? Is Christ ruling from Heaven? Is Satan bound so as to NOT deceive the nations any longer UNTIL the thousand years has ended? If Satan is bound, and is not deceiving the nations, why have over la billion been deceived into following Islam? Why over a billion following Buddha? Why over a billion following Hinduism? Why over a billion Catholics entrusting their souls to Mary ar the hour of their death? Not to mention atheists, LGBTQ, human trafficking, child molestation and pornography, murder, rape, drugs, alcohol, schools and universities teaching the godless Big Bang and Darwinian Evolution? Jesus in the Olivet Discourse was asked these questions: when will these things be? (The destruction of the temple) And what will be the sign of your coming again and the end of the age? He didn't address the timing of the destruction of the temple because it was a few short years away, BUT He did address His coming again. He said there would be false Messiahs (didn't happen in the first century) you (Christians) will be hated by ALL nations (did not happen in the first century) He Jesus would judge the nations of the world(did not happen in the first century) ALSO, in the Millennial Reign a person dying at 100 would be said to be an infant. Do we say a person living to 100 is a child? No! Also, in the Millennial Reign we will beat our weapons into plowshares and practice war no more. Has there EVER been a time like that in the last two thousand years? NO! I could go on and on. The preterist makes (This generation will not pass away...be literal) and then EVERYTHING else a metaphor!?!
An important note regarding Irenaeus, a preterist talking point: Preterists such are either being extremely disingenuous regarding Irenaeus, or they are unaware that Irenaeus wrote not once but twice in his work 'Against Heresies' that John survived into the time of Trajan and not just Domitian. How then can there be any question about whether he was referring to John's vision or to John himself being seen near the end of Domitian's reign? At best this is sloppy scholarship. At worst it's a willful deceiving of those who haven't read up on Irenaeus. That's like if you had a grandparent who passed away in 1995, and you said they were seen almost in our day towards the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency in the United States. Reagan obviously left office in the 80's so it makes no sense to relegate their life to an earlier time when they lived beyond that time frame.
And yes, Irenaeus got Jesus' age wrong on account of a faulty interpretation of John 8:57. But to then make the claim on a completely unrelated topic that it is also suspect thanks to this error has yet to be extended to any other writer that I'm aware of. It's the 'Irenaeus treatment', as I like to call it. Let me ask you this, the reader if you're a preterist, have you ever misinterpreted a verse? If so, does that disqualify you indefinitely from ever making a true statement? Is everything else you've ever said automatically wrong thanks to your misinterpretation of a Bible passage? If the answer is no, then why is this supposedly the case with Irenaeus? Has every written statement by Josephus or others preterists rely on been proven factual beyond a shadow of a doubt? If there is just one error anywhere to be found in their writings, why wouldn't this be an automatic 'disproving' of everything else they stated? This is cherry-picking to the nth degree. Has a trusted relative or friend ever told you something they genuinely believed true that you later learned to be false? How, then, can you trust anything they say ever again?
And why is Hegesippus never addressed by preterists? He recorded John's banishment under Domitian and not Nero. And he wrote this decades before Irenaeus ever did.
Irenaeus is an argument I don't bother with. It's an interesting topic of discussion, but it's not something I rely on either way.
I used to be a futurist. I walked with the Lord through his Word from dispensationalism, which is so much harder to believe/defend than preterism, through the other millennial views until I arrived at preterism. I came to believe the Bible is fulfilled because of what the Bible says, not what others say it says.
When it comes to John and Revelation, I believe it was written before 70 AD because of what the book itself says (along with the rest of the Bible). The INTERNAL evidence of the dating of Revelation is overwhelming. The EXTERNAL evidence seems to hang on the words of Ireneaus. Nothing against Ireneaus, and nothing against those true Believers that differ in their eschatology, but I trust the Word to interpret the Word, and the Word does a fine job.
I don't understand why people go around calling preterists "heretics". Do we teach anything other than salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus? Do we not teach that we are 'resurrected' or made alive in Christ and will spend all eternity with him?
So if the premillennialists have it right, is God going to condemn the postmillennialists? No. Of course not. So why is God going to condemn the preterists when they believe every word he ever said just the way he said it?
Blessing in the name of Yeshua.
@@markthehammer3448 blessings to you too. Where preterism steps into heterodoxy can be a fine line, but full preterism with its lack of belief in Hell and the belief that Jesus will never return again to set things right in this world are both more than enough to step over the 'heresy' line but that's a whole 'nother topic entirely.
"The EXTERNAL evidence seems to hang on the words of Ireneaus."
That's actually not true at all, and it's an oft-repeated preterist talking point. I mentioned Hegesipus who wrote decades before Irenaeus ever did about John being exiled under Domitian and not Nero.
Interestingly enough there was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. The overall predominant view since the first century in Christendom is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan. It wasn't until centuries after the original apostles had died that the pre-70 A.D. view came into being.
Another major issue with a Neronic dating of Revelation is the fact that this has been the minority view in the scholarly sense. And you'll never, ever see a logical case to move dates around by 3 decades in the first century A.D. because records were kept well during that time period. No credible historian would say Nero ruled during the 30's A.D., or 90's A.D., or say that the apostle Paul was martyred 30 years before or after the mid-60's A.D., or say the earthquake at Laodicea was in 90 A.D. or 30 A.D. vs the actual date of 60 A.D., or that the Colosseum was opened in 110 A.D. or 50 A.D instead of 80 A.D, or that 1 Thessalonians was written in 20 A.D. rather than the early 50's, or Paul's journey to Rome taking place in 30 A.D. rather than 60, or that James the brother of John was martyred in 14 A.D. rather than the mid 40's, or that the book of Timothy was written in the mid 30's rather than the real date of the mid 60's.
No one would attempt to put the mass suicide of the Jewish rebels at Masada from 73/74 A.D. to the 40's A.D., or the 100's. You can't change the approx. 9 A.D. date for Rome's defeat to the Germanic tribes under Arminius to 30 years prior or 30 years afterward. Can you claim the day of Pentecost as described in Acts took place in any decade but the 30's A.D. (late 20's A.D., absolute earliest if stretched, provided that the calendar miscalculated Jesus' birth by a few years)? Could Mt Vesuvius have erupted in 49 A.D. rather than 79 A.D.? The great fire of Rome in 34 A.D. rather than the correct date of 64 A.D.? I could go on and on.
There isn't a single significant event that took place in the first century that you can move by 30 years. Not one. It just doesn't work to mess with Revelation's established dating. And since the early evidence for Revelation falls apart, the time interpretations of Jesus' supposed return in 70 A.D. have nothing left to stand on.
@@JohnnyDoe1012
The time interpretations of Jesus' return have nothing to stand on except the words of Jesus. Someone is wrong, and I doubt it's Jesus.
If I am a heretic for believing the words of Christ written in His book, then I guess I'm a heretic. I'd rather die being called a heretic by man than assume the God of all creation didn't know what he was talking about and couldn't tell time.
@@markthehammer3448 can you answer a single one of my challenges with anything substantive?
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html more pp here
So the 100lb. hailstones, worldwide pestilence, waters turned to blood, mark of the beast, Jersusalem split into three parts from an earthquake, moon turned to blood, sun darkened, and the rest of the seals, trumpet, and bowl judgements have already happened? Yeah right!!!!
You need to understand what those things symbolize, and yes, they happened in the Jewish War. Gentry explains them very well in his books, so well that it becomes unmistakable.
@Kelly Blevins.. I believe a lot of what the Preterist are saying scripture means, but the very issues you stated, I too believe that they haven't happened yet. Full Preterist can't have it both ways. Look these scriptures were fulfilled, seet how history matches up with it. Then explain away other verse through conjecture and scriptural gymnastics.
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html here's more truth
Kelly you know what these preterists are teaching is lies...they are twisting the WORD to suit themselves...Gentry is no better than John Smith for the mormons....we know better...pray for them
Grace and peace to you
Gilly wife of Mark
Someone doesn’t know his history of the Judeo-Roman war.
Don Preston destroyed him in their debate.
Bryson Townsend exactly
Bryson Townsend, where is this debate so I can watch it?
@royal priest I've never seen Don lose a debate. If you have a link to that please send it.
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html
mathew 24 truth bombs
revelation has not been fulfilled.
the creeds were man made so we want o stay away from those as authoritative. appreciated what you said about hyper not explaining our eschatology.
Actually, each point of the Apostles' Creed and Nicene Creeds are taken from the Bible and vouched for by universal church council, so as far as you and I are concerned, those are authoritative.
@@CanonPress Well, the Nicene Creed is beautiful until one reads the "one baptism for forgiveness". This has led many in Christendom to believe that water baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins and salvation. The Apostles Creed is also beautiful. I grew up reciting this one. Many believe from this one that Christ went to hell, as in the place of eternal conscious torment. Most still do not understand that hell is the grave.
One must also be careful with the word "catholic", which I understand to mean whole yet it lends itself to acknowledging the literal catholic church.
God bless you.
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html here u go. this may help
Preterism is heresy.
Why? Preterism is not about the gospel, so preterism is not heretical. Second, the futurist view is the less biblical view invented in the 1800’s.
Has the book of revelation already been fulfilled? When was the mark of the beast introduced to the world? When did we lose one third and then half of the earths population? What happened to the anti christ? The global religion? The jews fleeing to the wilderness? The abomination of desolation? The rapture of the saints? the image of the beast? the 144,000 witnesses? The angel proclaiming the gospel? The 2 witnesses? The days of Lot and Noah? The 70th week of Daniel? Am I missing something?
Full preterists believe all of Revelation is fulfilled. I'm a partial preterist and believe Revelation is fulfilled up to Rev 20:6, not the release of Satan from the abyss, the judgement when death and hades are destroyed in the lake of fire in Rev 20:7 to 15, or the new heaven and new earth coming down out of heaven from God in Rev 21:1 to 4.
As a former atheist, the only books I research are different versions of the Bible. I believe preterists think the gospel according to Christ has already been preached. It hasn't.
Look up the word END.
Endure to the end. Mt. 10:22, 24:13.
Kingdom delivered up at the END. 1 Cor. 15:23-24.
I don't know about you, but if God's kingdom is wars, and politicians, that's a convoluted kingdom.
The coming kingdom of God, and repentance, IS the gospel. NOT the message/teaching of salvation.
Calling the message of salvation the gospel, is another gospel, and thee be cursed for it.
Mk. 1:14-15.
Interesting comments. As a former atheist how do you see the faith now? Do you have a futurist concept or are you not sure?
@james-cq3mi I see the mainstream of the faith in a process of collapse necessary for it to become a remnant.
Rev. 12:17
I see the reason being failure to worship in truth, based on the embrace of Rome, while claiming to be reformed.
I believe when Christianity is at it's smallest, the gospel according to Christ will finally be THE gospel, and he will return. The frustration is, it could be done now.
@@eltonron1558 So He will return and reign on earth, or that believers will be raptured up?
@@james-cq3mi My understanding is his reign on earth for a thousand years before any new earth or heaven, as it ends the rule of Satan.
There is a need for pastors, Christ has not come back yet, partial preterism is some what ok, but there are still things to come
That is your presuppositions what does the bible say ..... am i not a Christian because im a full preterist? I am not a BROTHER? I dont understand alot of you Christians i accept you as a BROTHER in CHRIST even though i belive your very wrong
tonyteb you don't believe Jesus is coming back! The bible says he's coming back in like manner as we saw him leave. Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
False teachings is against God.
***** The Bible is the only Truth of God. It is as it says. No way to break down the truth when it states it perfectly clear. Preterism is false teaching. Stick to the true gospel of God. Go re-read Revelations and pray for God to show you the truth, you'll see Preterism is complete garbage.
***** And him being the saviour, yes, but now you choose the path. You will be judged and teaching the wrong gospel gives you no access to His Kingdom.
Problem is, the Partial Prets like Doug have no "defeater" against Full Pret views that I have seen yet. All of the time statements, everything they were expecting seemingly had to happen then, if we are being consistent.
To me, what is the most interesting thing from the perspective of someone who is not a christian and comes from a more jewish background, is that the full preterism debunks completely xtianity from within. It's clear fomr the passages that preterists highlights(some of them are used by gnostics for their own purposes) that the early christians, not the Paul wing, but the ones who were opposing his gospel, actually believed the the end was close to them and that Jesus would come back within their lifetime. Yet, Paul in Tessalonians tells them that this would not happen till the present empire falls(meaning the roman empire, as interpretation of the book of Daniel) which only happened centuries later!!
You are conflating two separate issues with Thessalonians and Daniel. Daniel is just noting WHEN the "Stone" would break those world empires and establish God's everlasting empire, it wasn't at the end rather DURING the 4 world empire. Paul on the other hand is talking about the people that were persecuting the CHRISTIANS which is CLEARLY the Jews throughout the New Testament. That power was taken out of the way as a redemption from their persecutions in 70 A.D with Jerusalem's total destruction, exactly as Christ makes clear in Matthew 23 and 24. Romes persecutions of Christians only takes place decades after 70 A.D and a different matter completely.
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mathew 24 truth bomb
John Doe ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html
mathew 24 truth bomb
@@JohnDoe-le8fy very well said, exactly what I was thinking. Blessings
Daniel ch 2 7 9and 12 everything happens in the same kingdom the kingdom after Greek that is the Roman empire
How fitting that you offer inane gibberish referencing inane gibberish.
ruclips.net/video/PvP_Hg87luI/видео.html
mathew 24 truth bomb
So how does a preterist justify the book of revelations already be fulfilled? This is a bit of rhetorical question because I know it would require a ton of explaining. I’m sorry but the entirety of the world gathering itself under a single ideology wrapped up in a single united system lead by a single man has not happened. Also if preterism ends up being false and the book of revelation actually takes place, won’t all preterists completely miss what’s happening right before them?
Read 2 Thessalonians chapters 1 and 2 carefully, and you will see that the man of sin, would be judged at the coming of Christ, when He came in judgment to give the Thessalonian church rest from persecutors in their generation. It would hold no validity to think that the Thessalonians were not given rest from their persecutors( who were the unbelieving Jews persecuting the church of the first century throughout the whole empire) in the generation which they were living. To think that 2000 years later Christ still hasn't come in judgment to give those (Thessalonians) who were being troubled rest would be of no comfort to them. The man of sin was already at work in their day, and was consumed at the brightness of Christ coming in judgment.
The explanation is found in Matt 24:32-33
"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."
The fig tree is unique in that it fruits twice each season, first at the beginning, and again at the end.
This tells me that the signs leading to the destruction of the Temple and the end of the Mosaic age in AD70 ("verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.") are a shadow of the time leading up to Christ's return.
It has been fulfilled regarding the destruction of Jerusalem, and it is not yet fulfilled Christ's return.
Also, since I have never met a "full preterist", I prefer the word "historicist".
he didnt return in their lifetime, so why say it? jesus was clear, say, pray, take heed
many scripture prove they believe it was doomsday. Ther world was going to end
if is future, it makes no sense either
@@Moodboard39 The Jewish world literally did end. That’s what Jesus was speaking about. That’s why he told them the signs to look for so they would know to flee to the mountains. It was a Jewish doomsday.
@@Moodboard39 how did the Jewish world end? There are still jews today. The jews are back in Israel and there will be a third temple.
cuz is backed up by scripture. Thats why they wrote that. Because they believe it was their lifetime. There no way around it.
Why not put this guy's name in the title?
Ha, you found maybe the only "Ask Doug" not properly branded. This is Doug Wilson, one of Canon Press's authors (and a pastor for more than 40 years now).
:) Thanks
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mathew 24 truth bombs
The problem I have with preterism is that it ignores the parable of the fig tree. The blossoming fig tree is the main parable and sign that Jesus' return is soon, even at the doors! Israel was not blossoming in 70 AD, in fact it was cursed by Jesus just before His crucifixion and Jesus even declared them as "desolate." Luke 13, Matthew 21, Mark 11, Matthew 23:37-38.
The fig tree is representative of Israel and other trees as other nations. Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:12, Isaiah 33:9.
But Israel must be blossoming and not desolate, not withered when Jesus returns. This was not the case in 70AD. See Joel 2:22. This whole chapter is a 'Day of the Lord' passage which parallels Matthew 24.
Jesus also says there will be insane wars and chaos. So which is it? We weren't in Israel during the Roman war so we can't be so clear on all the minutia. Jesus was talking to that specific generation about specific things they would go through. The main thing for us is to get the big picture right. The Jews missed the first coming of Christ and sadly the Church missed the second coming. It is what it is.
@samuelspiel8855
I think Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain it. Israel will be brought back and be blossoming and thriving... and an enemy from the north will recognize it, find a weak spot, and attack Israel. But as opposed to the Babylonian invasion or 70AD, this time God will not permit Israel to be scattered as they had been in the past. Because as it says in Ezekiel 39:23-24 that Israel was scattered and given into the hands of their enemies because of their unfaithfulness... but according to this passage, after they have borne their shame and been left desolate for many years, God would remember His covenant and bring Jacob back and be jealous for His holy name, restore them, and not hide His face from them anymore. Amos 9 also prophecies something similar and says when God restores Israel in the latter days, they would be regathered out of all the nations and never be pulled up out of their land again. Amos 9:15
In these prophechies, Jerusalem does not fall. Zechariah 14:2-3, Isaiah 31:4-5, Matthew 24:28-31.
"Where the carcass is, there the eagles will gather." Matthew 24:28, Isaiah 31:5, Hosea 8:1, Hosea 14.
Whereas during the Babylonian invasion and 70AD, Israel was the dead carcass, it's reversed in the last days before Christ's return. Jerusalem is defended and the nations who attack it are destroyed.
Who is the dead carcass? Joel 2:20.
The northern army and its leader. Ezekiel 38:14-17, 39:17-20 Revelation 19:17-21.
Luke 13. Parable of the fig tree. Matthew 24:32-35.
God comes 4 different times expecting to find fruit. But the first 3 times He doesn't find any and each time results in judgment against Israel.
1. Exodus wilderness wanderings. Hosea 9:10. Wandered for 40 years and all except Joshua and Caleb perished. Psalm 95:10-11, Numbers 14:30-34
2. Babylonian invasion. Jeremiah the prophet spoke to Israel for 40 years, but they refused to repent and were overtaken by their enemies.
3. 70AD. Israel rejected their Messiah. Jesus Himself declared them desolate and cursed the fig tree. Matthew 21:18-19, 23:37-39.
4th time? Does He find fruit? Joel 2:22