Your app left me feeling helpless, it is like i need a fat wallet to receive the truth. Hard to navigate to the minuscule free data. Thankyou for the many free years of the sermon podcasts they have enriched my families life.
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? (Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?) Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10 Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then? John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive? John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46? Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context… The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage. What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..." Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55? Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”? Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne. Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This sounds so much like my experience coming into reformed theology and, soon after, post millennialism. Big thanks to the whole Canon Press people like Doug Wilson and the guys at Apologia like James White and Jeff Durbin.
Ok guys, I’ll jump on as well. I heard Apologia, which led me to Dr. White and MR Wilson. These are the men 10 generations in the future will be watching and reading about
The twig has not snapped in my skull yet...but I'm sure looking in that direction. Thanks for posting...gotta get some Doug books. Thanks again. Shalom
I attended Chilton's church in 1989. He was a good friend. I was able to bring him on as a columnist for the Sacramento Union -- since closed -- where he helped us with our goal of putting out a mainstream daily paper with an explicitly Christian worldview. He died way too young -- he would have been a valuable asset in the battles we face today. I don't remember if it was in the book Doug mentioned or something I heard him once say, but he had a post-millenial time horizon that easily incompassed the next 40,000 years. That was more than I could accommodate, although I am, at least by temperament, post-mil.
I agree with you considering the heavens and the earth was created 6000 years ago Creation Week. To use inflated figures like 40000 years is stupid. Sounds like pandering to vast long ages ?
The next stage is biblical flat earth. That realization will hit you for years. Crazy bible verses will make sense. Like the rolling up of the sky as a scroll.
@@Joshcaldwell24 Eric Dubay. Rob Skiba. DITRH. ODDTV. good start. RUclips those channels. There’s more but I don’t remember offhand. Post your reaction after watching a few intro videos!!
I've been trained in a Dutch Reformed Calvanist where au-mil was the understanding. I'm going to have to go to the app and give you a more through listen.
I call that environment “accidentally premil”. Most Americans fall into that category if they aren’t intentional about their eschatology and it’s hard to talk them out of it even thought they don’t know that much about it. I too was a non-millennialist for a long time and am now postmil.
Maybe you can help me? I'm autistic and I've always been pretrib but lately I've been seeing the post trib way much clearer when I read the pertinent passages. I also am losing my old views of Dispensationalism and Zionism. Okay but I still don't understand, literally don't understand but earnestly want to, how anyone could possibly believe anything but pre mill. Maybe my understanding of it is wrong. But can you explain to me how or why you believe that the millennium has either already happened or is happening now? Why would you assert that it's possibly the case? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm extremely interested and I feel you're trustworthy and can possibly give a good answer to this. To me it seems absurd that those things have already happened. I don't understand the preterist ideas. I understand the temple was destroyed in seventy A D but I just can't imagine how people make sense of the millennium, Christ's second coming, any kind of resurrection or rapture, etc etc etc, in the past...... Those things clearly have never happened........ Unless I'm missing something. Can you help me? I want to understand this very much.
@@coryc1904 The book “The Last Days According to Jesus” by RC Sproul is a good starting place. You can also find the series on RUclips of him discussing it. It’s a long study. Maybe 20ish episodes. Both are excellent if you can get over the 90’s filming.
When I talk to my PreMill Dispy friends they’re completely oblivious to other views. Or their limited knowledge of partial preterism and PostMillennialism is based on what their favourite doomsday prophecy “expert” has to say about it. Quite sad really.
"What we do matters." Powerful stuff. That was the mind blowing realization that hit me when I left dispensationalism... And I don't even think I'm a full on post mill yet
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? (Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?) Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10 Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then? John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5? John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive? John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46? Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context… The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage. What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..." Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55? Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”? Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne. Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I find it odd when some Christians become angry over Postmil eschatology. It’s a hope that is quite clear in the Word. Giving certain believers biblical optimism in this life is met with disdain? Quite befuddling. Most premill believers have been popping the end times popcorn for so long it’s like they don’t want to hear “all the nations will remember and turn to the Lord.”
I was dis-fellowshiped by someone I’ve this recently. Eschatology can be an idol. Especially when it’s treated as a salvation issue and it’s clearly not.
I think it's because they've been fed the idea that the Great Tribulation, Jesus spoke about is still to come and the way of escape is through the false teaching that the church will be removed from earth until that time is over. They don't realize that the redemption of our bodies spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15 is the "rapture ". The resurrection from the dead!
This was fun. When I was 18, I asked Doug to disciple me. At the time I thought that meant the older Christian imparted knowledge on the younger. Instead he had me read the new testament highlight quotes from the old, find it in the old and highlight it there. This was before he was post mill. I recall reading Matthew 24, walking into his office and saying, "This says within that generation". We have disagreed over the years but once and only once did I believe him to have given me a dumb answer. That was his premill answer to my question about Matthew 24.
I lean historic premill but don't know what you mean that death is the first thing dealt with according to that system. According to the Bible, in Rev. 20 death is dealt with finally at the end of the millennium when Satan is released for a time to be finally dealt with. So I would agree that death does continue through the millennium. I am confused about your confusion.
1 Corinthians 15 indicates that Jesus is presently reigning, as do many other NT passages. The “death of death” happens at the second coming. The notion of death continuing after Christ’s return has no Biblical support.
How sad it sounds to me and many of the comments I read from postmills that lash out at premillennialists as though they don’t care for the world and only for our little spot in Heaven. Shame of them, I’ve been a premill from study after becoming a Christian. I came out of homosexuality, married only to find out 8 months later that tested + for HIV. I became involved in ministry trying to tell as many as possible that Jesus can set them free, they can go to Heaven and to this day I feel the same at 63. Most of my friends are premills and not one of them want to go hide out in a bunker! They want to preach the gospel to as many as possible because we believe the time is short. Don’t ask me when I don’t but if it’s not 20, 30, 40, it will happen. There are a few flakes in every camp, but if all you hear from premills is the bunker doctrine, you’re listening to the wrong teachers. Tell me John MacArthur is a lousy teacher? He’s the only one who stood up for the Gospel through this Covid insanity and preached in support of Canadian pastors who preach Biblical sexuality in opposition to our government’s evil law. Not all premills want to hide!!
What are we drinking? Lagavulin 16? Appreciate the thoughts here but still can’t go post-mil. As an amil guy, I still believe that what we do matters now and eternally… come Lord Jesus.
I grew up with Baptist family and was always forced into christianity, but was always off put by the pessimistic view of the future. Only now in adulthood when I've looked for christ on my own interest have I shared similar views-what we do matters long term and short term.
I had an odd eschatological journey, I think. While I was still a dispensationalist, I came to reject Zionism thanks to Chuck Baldwin, and it took me a while to realize that one pretty much has to be a Zionist to be dispensational, so I became historic premillennial while further researching eschatology. Reading Gabriel Hughes' eschatological writings led me to become amillennial on January 4, 2024. As I started getting into theonomy, dominionism, Christian Reconstruction, and Kuyperian theology, though, I started leaning postmillennial and finally became postmillennial on May 21, 2024 thanks to Joel Webbon clarifying "My kingdom is not of this world."
Exactly death is not defeated until after the 1000 years. It says that plain as day. And it also says plain as day the first resurrection is before the millennium. Well folks I guess we missed it. Paul had some pretty awful things to say about those that kept troubling the church that the day of the Lord had come or the resurrection had happened already. He uses the term blasphemy btw.
In the face of increasing hostility towards Christianity in the western world, Islam becoming the most popular religion in the world, and Paul's warning in 2 Timothy about a great falling away, with people becoming lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of good, how can you possibly be as optimistic as postmillennialism requires??
Would the Christians alive during the black plague have said the same thing? We’ve gotta stop being so self centred. The world has advanced and the gospel has gone forth since it’s roots with 11 confused disciples. Chin up. He wins!
If I'm cultivating a farm over several decades and a storm causes some damage, do I automatically assume all is lost and there will forever only be storms to prevent my work? Or do I see the storm as a momentary set back and plan my damage control for when the sun comes out?
I’m trying to reconcile the first and the second resurrections. If when Christ comes the dead in Christ rise and that is the first resurrection, what is it about the second resurrection and when does that happen?
Amen, the advance of Jesus' Kingdom is inevitable Jesus said, All authority in the heaven and EARTH belongs to me, therefore go and teach all nations...Of the INCREASE of his government and peace there shall be NO END...the zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this...All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the LORD...the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea...I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it...(Matt 28: 18-20, Isaiah 9:7, Psalm 22:27, Hab. 2:14, Matt 16:18)
Always appreciate Doug----but still thankful for MacArthur's dispensational approach and for the opportunity I had to study under Walvoord, Ryrie, etc during the classic Dallas Seminary period! And Jim Boice sure sounded like a dispensationalist to me!
To be fair, there are many great men of God who are Dispensationalist. But it is, nonetheless, a hellish error. While I'm personally Postmillennial, I'm totally cool with Amillennialism and historic premillennialism. But dispensationalism is evil.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
MacArthur is constantly hammered for being dispensational but describes himself as a "leaky dispensationalist" bc he doesn't agree with all the dispensations others have come up with.
Jesus: I go to prepare a place for you (John 14:3) Post Mil: The Church will prepare a place for Him Question: When we read scripture, is the return of Jesus described as a peaceful event where Jesus is welcomed back to Earth to conduct the Final Judgment and usher in the eternal state by a mostly "Christianized" world, or do we read of the return of Jesus as a violent and bloody event where the Son of God goes to war against His enemies and includes the rescue of Israel (Zech 12-14, Rev 19) ??
I'm not sure why Pastor Doug thinks that "according to the Premil understanding, the first enemy to be destroyed is death". That's not the Premil understanding...
Amill and Postmill are actually both postmill in the sense that they both see Christ's return as happening after his "thousand year" reign (the church age). The Amillinialist simply sees that reign as far more heavenly, describing us being in his presence before the resurrection. The kingdoms of darkness and light will grow parallel to one another until Christ's return. At least that's how I've heard Sam Storm's describe it. The Postmillenialist sees Christ's millenial reign as having far more earthly impact, subduing the kingdom of darkness until the last enemy, death, is all that remains. Christ will then return and destroy death.
What exactly is post millenialism? I would really value a concise definition of terms... Maybe it's a dumb question but I get so confused by all the terminology for different positions.
Today (Dec. 16,2021) I posted a comment in this comment section. If, after you read it, you would like me to try to offer some more "concise" definitions, please reply to what I posted this morning.
The mark is not a literal mark but symbolizes who your allegiance is to in your thoughts (forehead) and deeds (hand). The Bible speaks of being sealed on the forehead by God.
@@SerenityNow22 Sarah that’s a really good explanation, thank you for this! I am not sure on my end time views, other than Jesus is coming. But i want postmil to be true. But ultimately my hope is in the Lord. May God bless you richly.
Die Offenbarung hat sich erfüllt. Es gibt ein Hier auf der Erde, und die weitere Ewigkeit ist im himmlischen Jerusalem. Wir sind die Braut Christi, das himmlische Jerusalem. Jesus kam einmal im Fleisch, an Pfingsten durch den Heiligen Geist, und zum Gericht. Alles hat sich ereignet.
So even when I disagree with Doug, I usually at least admire his logic and thought process. In this case, I can’t say even that though. He just said that 1 Cor. 15:26 says that the *last enemy that will be abolished is death, but that Premillennialists say that the *first enemy that will be abolished is death. But that is not accurate. Dispensational Premillennialists do not say that the *first enemy to be abolished with be death. There will still be death all through the Millennium. No one, especially Doug, should be having a “Transformer Moment” over this. Very disappointing… 🤔🙄🙏
It's not just with Doug, but I hear this all the time in the Reformed community that they are convinced of their theology by reading books written by men. Instead of doing the hardwork, studying like Berean's and praying for wisdom and discernment and wrestling through the scriptures themselves with the Holy Spirit as our guide (1 John 2:27), you simply rely on other men's opinions. I'm not saying God hasn't appointed teachers, etc. and we shouldn't read the thoughts of other Christians, there is a place for that, what I am saying is I've often wondered how Doug and others went off the rails with his eschatology and here you have it, he was convinced by the words of men. Another example is I wonder how a Christian could be convinced by Calvinism, and they say I read Luther's Bondage of the Will. I respond do you also now consider ripping out the pages of James (a book Luther rejected) or avoiding the book altogether like Luther proposed? Come on brothers and sisters, how often are we warned about not being deceived by man.
If he must reign(remain there) until all enemies are put under his feet, then how can there be enemies that we subdue at his return? I do not read this event the same way as you are reading it. I am not at this time opposed to either, however there is much that does not fit with this postmil. The stone that struck the feet of the statue was not cut out with hands, and it was not built up by hands to cover the earth, it grew. You cannot say this world is being ruled by Christ. Far to many children being struck down in the womb, a internet filled with the darkest desires of the dragon himself. Even a husband not having control of his household was forbidden from being in a leadership position of the church 1 Timothy 3:5 “(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)”. It seems a huge insult to say this is under the control of my Lord. Man's bad decisions are man's alone and he will pay for them justly. When Jesus returns halfway through the tribulation it is the exciting climax to the most epic of stories. By far more epic than has ever graced the imaginations of men. I do not see this as a series in its 500th season and nobody sure how many more to come. Although, with the gusto shown by the church in America today it well might be. I guess I read Jesus returning... Physically .... and restoring all things. He is the Lord and all things are his. I do not understand how our works will ever attribute to perfection 1 Corinthians 15:50 “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” Which is WHY we are changed at the 7th trumpet, in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in Christ rise first and we who remain are caught up to meet him. If we cannot inherit, being flesh and blood, how can we ever call ourselves the builders of the kingdom? 1 Corinthians 13:12 “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” If Paul, my apostle being a Gentile, stated he knows in part, how can any of us claim to know more? (that not being accusatory at all but a statement of fact) I am curious to see what scripture I have over looked. I have become a regular viewer of many of your videos, this one point (as with the pre trib rapture with Pastor Lawson and Pastor John MacArthur) just seems to not be in the KJV I study.
Hi there. Hope I can help. The ruling of Jesus Christ ALSO has to do with His Body the Church learning and taking their position. Also prayers...praying in the spirit in the agenda Jesus told us to pray that the Father's kingdom come and will be done. Mixing faith with what we do. Do what we do for the sake of the Kingdom for the expansion of it. It is a complete repentance (change of mind) to become focused on the present and continual reign of Jesus and also our bit on the earth giving Him "legal right" by our prayers to do what needs to be done in the situation. To say Jesus rules and reigns and there's nothing we must do is a clear lack of understanding of why God made us. Genesis 1:26 says God gave man dominion over the earth...so it's clearly by us having a revelation of the Kingdom and also submitting to God...but subduing everthing we come across underneath Him. The problems on the earth aren't because Jesus isn't reigning, the yh are there for a lot of reasons, probably a major one is the lack of understanding of our role and Jesus position and rule, and not taking our place in offensive taking of all things for the Kingdom. Hope that helps.
I don't really understand how the verses he quoted excluded premillennialism. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. It's always been my impression that people still die in the millennium: "one who dies when he is a hundred shall be regarded as cut off in his youth" (Isa 65:20). I've always viewed this verse as occurring during the millennium. It's always been my impression that all the nations will be saved...at the end of the 7 year tribulation. Those that are left alive. Also "these things will happen during this generation" in Matthew 24. Everything in Matthew 24 occurs during this generation? Including Jesus appearing in the clouds and gathering the elect from the four winds? And appearing as visible as a lightning bolt that flashes across the sky? Matthew 24:30-31 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." This happened in the first century? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just don't quite understand.
Yeah, I saw the same thing... And I think he misunderstands "death is the first enemy to be destroyed". Death being swallowed up in victory refers to glorified bodies for Christians (1Cor.-15). But the last enemy death being destroyed is at the Great White Throne (Rev.-20:13). And ultimately the New Heavens and New Earth have no death/sin/corruption. But yes, I agree, death is certainly operative during the Millenium, as God destroys people at the start and end of the Millenium.
I love the positive, Christ-focus, Gospel is powerful, view of postmil. My problem with it is its attempt to have the church engage in politics. This is why I am amill.
@@jpfiero Because the New Testament, by command and pattern, demands the church to be apolitical. Personally, I love politics. I believe Christians should be salt & light in the political system. The church, however, should not.
@@ctvtmo How is that an explanation though? Of course the church shouldn't be the state. If we modeled civil sociaty off of the Bible, we would see a clear seperation between the priests handling spiritual matters, and the judges and city elders (and eventually the king) handling civil matters. Or, to put it in the modern parlance, the Bible teaches separation of church and state. Postmil separating church and state isn't a problem unless we assume God doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to civics and we should just govern ourselves however seems right in our own eyes.
@@ctvtmo The church is made up of living stones, these same stones are in politics. You can't seperate the two. Do some research into sphere sovereignty, the problem with our society today is that Christians do not understand this concept. The church has handed its responsibilities to the government and the family has handed its responsibilities to the church and government. Government was never designed to handle all of these area's.
1. That bush, whether it lasts 100 years premill or 100 years postmill, still matters historically. And if Jesus comes back 50 years from now, under a postmill view that bush burns up whereas that same bush gets rejuvenated and is allowed to flourish without groaning under a premill scenario. 2. How would children have enough life experience, knowledge of the world or breadth of historical vision to have an opinion on whether the earth was getting better and better or worse and worse?
"For he must reign" is 1 Cor 15:25. The reign it is speaking of IS the millennium. So many are accepting postmillennialism just because they refuse to accept the millennium as it is described. Reread revelation 19 and 20. Jesus reigns in the millennium, he rules with a rod of iron. That is 1 Cor 15:24, the end comes when Jesus delivers the kingdom AFTER destroying every rule and authority. The millennium is Jesus reigning here, on earth, in person, putting all rebellion out, putting everything under his feet. Is Satan not active now? Because he will be bound for the thousand years, Rev 20:2. There's nothing wrong with the sequence of historical premillennialism as long as you understand the rapture is the first resurrection (1 Cor 15:23) and gathering to him in Jerusalem to reign. You just have to be willing to accept Christ's physical reigning in OUR reality. So many believers don't REALLY believe in a real, physical Jesus. We've so subconsciously accepted the neognosticism of today of going off to heaven as spirits. That's not biblical! So many can't even conceptualize Jesus being literally, physically right on front of them instead of in some ethereal dimension. -Trumpet -Christ descends -First resurrection and gathering of saints (rapture) -Satan bound -Thousand year reign of Christ -Satan released, he gathers the unbelievers still living on earth during this time (another thing people don't want to accept about millennium) -Jesus victorious and great white throne. -General resurrection and judgment -Death itself destroyed in lake of fire (notice this lines up with 1 Cor 15:26 AFTER Christ's coming.) -Now "the end" comes of v24 since the "after"s are completed. And the Son delivers the kingdom to the Father who makes his home with man bringing the home, new Jerusalem, with him, which he had promised he was preparing. This sequence overlays every biblical passage. Not every passage has every event, but the sequence never changes. When they are overlayed they fill in the sequence. But saying Christ comes after the millennium is objectively out of sequence.
“But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.” Matthew 12:28-29 ESV Did Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God? Yes. The kingdom is here NOW. Not future. Satan is bound now from deceiving the nations like he did in the OT. God is plundering his house.
@@SerenityNow22 The Kingdom and the millennium are different things. The kingdom of heaven is certainly here, yes, no where did I disagree. But it's not the millennium. The millennium is after the resurrection of the saints. And the resurrection after his coming and the coming after the blast of the trumpet. There's no confusion on that sequence if you simply read it.
The phrase “keep you from” in Rev. 3:10 is “tereo se ek” in Greek. Tereo appears 75 times in the Bible and is translated “keep” 57 of those. “Se” means “you”, and “ek”which is translated “from” in Rev. 3:10 is often translated “out of”. It literally means to be out of both the time and place of the event it concerns. Therefore it’s correct to say that the Lord will keep the Church out of the time and place of the hour of trial being referenced in Rev. 3:10. This translation makes Rev. 3:10 agree with 1 Thes. 1:10 where Paul said the Lord will rescue (deliver) the church from the wrath to come. John 17:15 is part of a prayer that begins in John 17:6 and continues through John 17:19. Jesus was offering it on behalf of His disciples who were there with Him on the night of His arrest. Some try to use this verse as an argument against the pre-Trib rapture. But to do so, they have to change both the purpose and scope of His prayer, which was to seek divine protection from Satan for His disciples.
@@sweatt4237 Not a chance there, Sweatt. There is only one Messiah. When he returns physically, it will be unmistakable. The dead will rise, my body will change in in the twinkling of an eye.
Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better (even though it certainly doesn't look like it is) with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2nd Timothy 3:1-5 it says, “There will be terrible times in the LAST days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God." IF Christians and thereby Christ were reigning, do we really think we would have over a billion Muslims, who view Jesus as a prophet right below Mohamad, a billion Buddhists, who believe Jesus was an enlightened person, a billion Hindus, who believe Jesus studied yoga and became a guru to the Jews, a billion Catholics who are entrusting their souls to Mary at the hour of their death, nearly a billion atheists, the LGBTQ running rampant, TV shows and movies, that continually blaspheme God and His Christ, drinking, drugs, and colleges that have become propaganda mills that promote Godless, Big-bang theology and Darwinian Evolution, human trafficking, and a host of other sinful deeds that will be eliminated during the reign of Jesus Christ, our Holy God. This is a good example of eisegesis; reading pre-conceived ideas into the text, rather than simply reading what the text is clearly stating.
Yeah, the world's a mess and I can't see it changing, not in the past or near future. I always wanted to escape it. Is it possible the death of Adam on that very day he ate the fruit was not a biological death, just perhaps? Then the heavenly land Abraham sought that Jesus spoke about - "flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God" - becomes something not what we were all taught in most churches. Born to die biologically, like a seed planted in the ground, to become sons of God shining like the stars forever. Dispensational, Post-mill, and A-mill were always confusing and did not add up for me. How could Jesus suggest He would return on the clouds in the lifetime of those standing in front of him? I think He did, just not the way we are taught in our history, creeds and confessions, along with our empirical interpretations as well. Maybe we don't escape this biological realm until we biologically die.
I don’t know what any of this jargon means, but until the day of the Lord arrives, the best practice is to be found doing what He commanded. I’m also ready for the rapture. Come Lord Jesus!
In the parable of the ten virgins, the ones who weren’t ready didn’t make it to the wedding because they didn’t have enough oil (thought the bridegroom was coming soon). The ones who made it had enough oil because the bridegroom delayed and they were prepared for that. Let the reader understand.
Good interview. Doug does not, however, live in the real and rightly divided scriptural world. Much of the NT was written to the jews primarily. Even Jesus told us why He was sent primarily. Paul was then commissioned by the same Lord, in Acts, to explain the mysteries (hidden things) of the church and His coming for His bride, and more. He will indeed will fulfill all of His promises made, including His defeating death, but many promises thru Isreal (the nation) again, just as He promised Abraham. Many Blessings
So thankful to you both.for this explanation. The planting of a hedge at the end reminds me of Job praying a hedge around his adult children who were partying and not believers. Everything matters. Everything is effectively altered by believing Jesus O T and N T past present future. He is the same yesterday today and forever. Jesus is the Word incarnate. So the whole of Scripture must be logical from The Logos. Eschatology matters and must make ultimate sense. We are to be witnessing to the Truth and the marvellous Gospel. That’s our job ? Until He comes again to wind up this World and restoration and recreation back to the Original Eden perfection for a New Heaven and New Earth. The rapture escape clause has never made sense and always seemed like imposition on the text eisegesis not exegesis of the text of Scripture informing and explaining the future or Eschatology .Building upon Gods Word alone Sola Scriptura is the only way forward for a Biblical Creationist Christian worldview and timeframe. 6000 years Creation Week .
So, I am not as read up on my eschatology as I ought (to my shame), but have inclined toward Amil for many years. Yeah, I know Jesus is coming but as well, we are dying and we will die. I’m not clear how things are getting better when everything ends in death before it results in life (1 Cor 15:36). Our aim in light of death is to urgently proclaim the gospel counting all things a loss (even the shrub I just planted) compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ. *Not trying to debate. I respect Wilson a great deal. Just thinking out loud. I know have more reading to do especially if I decidedly change.
Postmill is not just wrong, it's the opposite of scripture. It's ruthlessly stupid. It's not even possible. It really comes down to between Amill and Historic Premill.
John Calvin’s view on the PreMill perspective: “This fiction is too puerile to need or to deserve refutation. Nor do they receive any countenance from the Apocalypse, from which it is known that they extracted a gloss for their error, (Revelation 20:4,) since the thousand years there mentioned refer not to the eternal blessedness of the Church, but only to the various troubles which await the Church militant in this world” (Institutes 3.25.5).” You better tell the Puritans how stupid their eschatological view was. The PostMillennial hope is what built America. You need to study up on church history before calling a view you clearly know nothing about “ruthlessly stupid”.
so, "the world getting better or not" thingy is problematic for me because of the technology evolution hockey stick world we live in. Simply, AI scares the hell out of me. Throw in the very evident "dopamine effect" of social media, and we are brewing a very frightening future and future generation. In short, something has to give. Either God intervenes and shakes things up dramatically, spawning a new revival, or it's not looking promising. One hundred years to see that tree grow? Not likely at the rate our world is spiraling into a godless black hole. The odd thing in all of this is that I've recently developed a large craving for figs...
This is my first issue with postmil if I am not misunderstanding it, like Doug says, his children responded with "worse and worse". I am the same way. The demonic activity is becoming so in your face all the time now it is vile. As a young man, in my early twenties, I see what they are doing to our younger generations through different social medias, apps, technology like you mentioned and it is BAD. Humans and all of God's creation is under attack like never before. Our food, our water, our livelihood... Even so, come quickly Lord.
But this world is dying. Things are worse than ever before. There are cycles but we are clearly on the downside of the cycle. Ancient people were smarter than we are. Things got worse in the Dark Ages and then Europe built back up. We reached another Golden Age in the Renaissance and continuing on into the early Modern age. Progress was made, but then we saw the early seeds of our destruction in some minor Enlightenment figures, even though most of the Enlightenment was Christian. Things continued improving in the 19th Century with most people in Europe and its outposts being at least nominally Christian. There was a subtext building with liberal theologians, radical critics of Western Civilization, and meliorists who saw that we could bring in the Millennium if we just gave up traditional ways of life and traditional concepts of the Bible. Atheism became more prominent into the 20th Century. Only by the 20th Century were we back to the living standards of the Roman Empire. Then the world wars hit, theological liberalism became the dominant brand of Christianity, the totalitarian state arose with over 100 million murders, mass society arose in the West, Christianity fell from public prominence. Then the 60's brought in the Sexual Revolution and radical feminism as well as attempts to destroy natural boundaries of people so that people begin losing any regard for people around them. See Robert Putman on the socially destructive effects of racial diversity. The family is disintegrating, women don't have children--especially the smarter women so that the entire population is shrinking and becoming dumber. Christianity is fading from its place in the West at a faster pace with supposedly Evangelical theologians pushing racial integration that destroys the distinct nations and civilizations. The world is coming together--setting up the Anti-Christ arising from the "Sea," i.e. the Sea of Anonymous social atomistic people who are cast away from any natural grouping. We are on the brink of collapse and with it either we will enter another dark age or the Tribulation.
Im not sure what pre vs post milleniumism is. Bible seems to indicate a rapture, the ending of Jacob's Troubles and mans judgement, a millennium rule with pre-floodish lifespan, and then Satan's release, defeat, judgement of all life, the reward of fire lake for lawbreakers, abolishion of sin and death, rewards, a new creation, and the new. Not sure how classifications get made. Just read the Book and believe what it says.
That is pre-milleniumism I read the Book as well and I don't find it as clear as that. If a preacher hadn't said something like that I would not have come to the same conclusions.
@@matthewsheppard7050 It's funny, most of the indicators i found actually were not taught. Things like this: Zep 2:3 - Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the LORD's anger. Or the idea that 6 days are given to man to work (man's working) but the seventh sabbath day is set apart to the Lord. Also pesach week, Messiah shows himself 3 days and is tested, is killed in the fourth day, three days and nights in earth, as Jonah's sign, completion and rises foreverat about 3pm-sundown. 8th day (sunday) is feast of firstfruits, whereas Messiah is the first fruit, whereas at the end of the seventh millennium?? The world is melted down in fervenent heat and the new is brought forth. I believe God's word so much richer than we know....
Or you could actually study what the Bible says about the end times and not try to determine what the future will be based number patterns that may or may not mean the same thing to you as they did to the Hebrew that first wrote them down. This would be a good place to start. www.ligonier.org/learn/series/last_days_according_to_jesus/the-end-of-the-age/
@@kylec8950 Well, unfortunately they are Calvinist in their thinking, but that's not what I mean. Pre-Millennial is the very obvious biblical perspective.
@@syfeb So they are Calvinist and NOT pre-millennial, seems they are very Biblical to me! What makes you say "Pre-Millennial is the very obvious biblical perspective."? If thats the case then I wonder why the early Church labeled it a heresy called Chiliasm.
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Your app left me feeling helpless, it is like i need a fat wallet to receive the truth. Hard to navigate to the minuscule free data. Thankyou for the many free years of the sermon podcasts they have enriched my families life.
I can’t find it anywhere on the app either🤷🏻♂️
Where might one find this?? I even have the paid subscription and can't find it.
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage.
What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..."
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This sounds so much like my experience coming into reformed theology and, soon after, post millennialism. Big thanks to the whole Canon Press people like Doug Wilson and the guys at Apologia like James White and Jeff Durbin.
Same experience here- a lot of scripture makes sense now
Me three! EXACTLY like my experience
Me too
Ok guys, I’ll jump on as well. I heard Apologia, which led me to Dr. White and MR Wilson. These are the men 10 generations in the future will be watching and reading about
@@3leon306 If only they didn’t all agree that the Pope was an anti-Christ then maybe this would make sense.
"What we do matters eternally and it matters historically." Thank you Pastor Wilson... I'm starting to get it.
Headed to canon to watch the whole thing. Post mill changed my view on having children. 💖
That’s bad news
@@lorainabogado having children is great news.
@@lindzwild3346LindzWild having children based on theology is bad new - very bad news. I'd rather you flip a coin.
Mine too
Thanks for converting me to a postmil theonomist! 🙏😊
The twig has not snapped in my skull yet...but I'm sure looking in that direction. Thanks for posting...gotta get some Doug books. Thanks again. Shalom
Un-doing our previous, incorrect thoughts is no easy task. I'm STILL working it out, but I did have a twig-snap eureka moment like Doug.
This is so right on! One's eschatology affects our priorities, what we do in the here and now!
I could listen to Doug all day
I attended Chilton's church in 1989. He was a good friend. I was able to bring him on as a columnist for the Sacramento Union -- since closed -- where he helped us with our goal of putting out a mainstream daily paper with an explicitly Christian worldview. He died way too young -- he would have been a valuable asset in the battles we face today. I don't remember if it was in the book Doug mentioned or something I heard him once say, but he had a post-millenial time horizon that easily incompassed the next 40,000 years. That was more than I could accommodate, although I am, at least by temperament, post-mil.
I agree with you considering the heavens and the earth was created 6000 years ago Creation Week. To use inflated figures like 40000 years is stupid. Sounds like pandering to vast long ages ?
@@rolandparfenovics5250 I take it you didn't read very carefully?
@@rolandparfenovics5250 he means 40,000 into the future.
@@rolandparfenovics5250 As somene else has noted, Chilton was refering to the future. He would have been in agreement with you on a young earth.
That was my experience when I read “When the Man Comes Around”.
This describes my experience with election. All of a sudden everything actually made sense in context lol.
The next stage is biblical flat earth. That realization will hit you for years. Crazy bible verses will make sense. Like the rolling up of the sky as a scroll.
@@BrokTheLoneWolf what do you mean?
@@Joshcaldwell24 are you interested in going down that rabbit hole or not?
@@BrokTheLoneWolf oh hell yeah lol
@@Joshcaldwell24 Eric Dubay. Rob Skiba. DITRH. ODDTV. good start. RUclips those channels. There’s more but I don’t remember offhand. Post your reaction after watching a few intro videos!!
I've been trained in a Dutch Reformed Calvanist where au-mil was the understanding. I'm going to have to go to the app and give you a more through listen.
Our former pastor Doug Busby introduced this to me... and my granddaughter is enrolled in your school! Wonderful!
I call that environment “accidentally premil”. Most Americans fall into that category if they aren’t intentional about their eschatology and it’s hard to talk them out of it even thought they don’t know that much about it. I too was a non-millennialist for a long time and am now postmil.
We need to make a film to defeat "Left Behind". That damned movie ruined countless lives.
Maybe you can help me?
I'm autistic and I've always been pretrib but lately I've been seeing the post trib way much clearer when I read the pertinent passages. I also am losing my old views of Dispensationalism and Zionism.
Okay but I still don't understand, literally don't understand but earnestly want to, how anyone could possibly believe anything but pre mill. Maybe my understanding of it is wrong. But can you explain to me how or why you believe that the millennium has either already happened or is happening now? Why would you assert that it's possibly the case? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm extremely interested and I feel you're trustworthy and can possibly give a good answer to this. To me it seems absurd that those things have already happened. I don't understand the preterist ideas.
I understand the temple was destroyed in seventy A D but I just can't imagine how people make sense of the millennium, Christ's second coming, any kind of resurrection or rapture, etc etc etc, in the past...... Those things clearly have never happened........ Unless I'm missing something.
Can you help me? I want to understand this very much.
@@coryc1904 The book “The Last Days According to Jesus” by RC Sproul is a good starting place. You can also find the series on RUclips of him discussing it. It’s a long study. Maybe 20ish episodes. Both are excellent if you can get over the 90’s filming.
@@coryc1904 ruclips.net/p/PL30acyfm60fWm9jA8LNRnYizJj5VEduus
When I talk to my PreMill Dispy friends they’re completely oblivious to other views. Or their limited knowledge of partial preterism and PostMillennialism is based on what their favourite doomsday prophecy “expert” has to say about it.
Quite sad really.
"What we do matters." Powerful stuff. That was the mind blowing realization that hit me when I left dispensationalism... And I don't even think I'm a full on post mill yet
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Graveyards needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before then?
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrections in John chapter 5?
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage.
What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..."
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
@@SpotterVideogreat questions indeed!
I find it odd when some Christians become angry over Postmil eschatology. It’s a hope that is quite clear in the Word. Giving certain believers biblical optimism in this life is met with disdain? Quite befuddling. Most premill believers have been popping the end times popcorn for so long it’s like they don’t want to hear “all the nations will remember and turn to the Lord.”
That popcorn is so overdone that it has become ashes!
I was dis-fellowshiped by someone I’ve this recently. Eschatology can be an idol. Especially when it’s treated as a salvation issue and it’s clearly not.
I think it's because they've been fed the idea that the Great Tribulation, Jesus spoke about is still to come and the way of escape is through the false teaching that the church will be removed from earth until that time is over. They don't realize that the redemption of our bodies spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15 is the "rapture ". The resurrection from the dead!
This was fun. When I was 18, I asked Doug to disciple me. At the time I thought that meant the older Christian imparted knowledge on the younger. Instead he had me read the new testament highlight quotes from the old, find it in the old and highlight it there. This was before he was post mill. I recall reading Matthew 24, walking into his office and saying, "This says within that generation". We have disagreed over the years but once and only once did I believe him to have given me a dumb answer. That was his premill answer to my question about Matthew 24.
I don't get the Matthew 24 thing, can you explain more clearly please?
@@apracity7672 ruclips.net/video/t-WBPjzhk3k/видео.html
So similar to my own experience! Though I was panmil for like 10 years.
Love getting to hear this story.
22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph. 1:22 ESV
This is sooooo relatable
I lean historic premill but don't know what you mean that death is the first thing dealt with according to that system. According to the Bible, in Rev. 20 death is dealt with finally at the end of the millennium when Satan is released for a time to be finally dealt with. So I would agree that death does continue through the millennium. I am confused about your confusion.
1 Corinthians 15 indicates that Jesus is presently reigning, as do many other NT passages. The “death of death” happens at the second coming. The notion of death continuing after Christ’s return has no Biblical support.
How sad it sounds to me and many of the comments I read from postmills that lash out at premillennialists as though they don’t care for the world and only for our little spot in Heaven. Shame of them, I’ve been a premill from study after becoming a Christian. I came out of homosexuality, married only to find out 8 months later that tested + for HIV. I became involved in ministry trying to tell as many as possible that Jesus can set them free, they can go to Heaven and to this day I feel the same at 63. Most of my friends are premills and not one of them want to go hide out in a bunker! They want to preach the gospel to as many as possible because we believe the time is short. Don’t ask me when I don’t but if it’s not 20, 30, 40, it will happen. There are a few flakes in every camp, but if all you hear from premills is the bunker doctrine, you’re listening to the wrong teachers. Tell me John MacArthur is a lousy teacher? He’s the only one who stood up for the Gospel through this Covid insanity and preached in support of Canadian pastors who preach Biblical sexuality in opposition to our government’s evil law. Not all premills want to hide!!
This is an awesome comment.
What are we drinking? Lagavulin 16? Appreciate the thoughts here but still can’t go post-mil. As an amil guy, I still believe that what we do matters now and eternally… come Lord Jesus.
Thank you
I grew up with Baptist family and was always forced into christianity, but was always off put by the pessimistic view of the future. Only now in adulthood when I've looked for christ on my own interest have I shared similar views-what we do matters long term and short term.
I had an odd eschatological journey, I think. While I was still a dispensationalist, I came to reject Zionism thanks to Chuck Baldwin, and it took me a while to realize that one pretty much has to be a Zionist to be dispensational, so I became historic premillennial while further researching eschatology. Reading Gabriel Hughes' eschatological writings led me to become amillennial on January 4, 2024. As I started getting into theonomy, dominionism, Christian Reconstruction, and Kuyperian theology, though, I started leaning postmillennial and finally became postmillennial on May 21, 2024 thanks to Joel Webbon clarifying "My kingdom is not of this world."
You had me fooled Doug, I really had you in my mind as a Pre .Millennialist
I've never heard a pre-mil that believed that death was defeated pre-mil.
Exactly death is not defeated until after the 1000 years. It says that plain as day. And it also says plain as day the first resurrection is before the millennium. Well folks I guess we missed it. Paul had some pretty awful things to say about those that kept troubling the church that the day of the Lord had come or the resurrection had happened already. He uses the term blasphemy btw.
Yeah, I wonder where Doug got that idea from?
This describes my experienc as well, but with amillennialism. Still can’t quite get behind postmil.
Why do we pay to listen? App/website is useless
This is pretty much my experience also.
In the face of increasing hostility towards Christianity in the western world, Islam becoming the most popular religion in the world, and Paul's warning in 2 Timothy about a great falling away, with people becoming lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of good, how can you possibly be as optimistic as postmillennialism requires??
Faith?
Would the Christians alive during the black plague have said the same thing? We’ve gotta stop being so self centred. The world has advanced and the gospel has gone forth since it’s roots with 11 confused disciples. Chin up. He wins!
If I'm cultivating a farm over several decades and a storm causes some damage, do I automatically assume all is lost and there will forever only be storms to prevent my work?
Or do I see the storm as a momentary set back and plan my damage control for when the sun comes out?
I’m trying to reconcile the first and the second resurrections. If when Christ comes the dead in Christ rise and that is the first resurrection, what is it about the second resurrection and when does that happen?
Amen, the advance of Jesus' Kingdom is inevitable Jesus said, All authority in the heaven and EARTH belongs to me, therefore go and teach all nations...Of the INCREASE of his government and peace there shall be NO END...the zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this...All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to the LORD...the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea...I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it...(Matt 28: 18-20, Isaiah 9:7, Psalm 22:27, Hab. 2:14, Matt 16:18)
Wasn't death destroyed on the cross? Is it "finished" or is it not finished?
Always appreciate Doug----but still thankful for MacArthur's dispensational approach and for the opportunity I had to study under Walvoord, Ryrie, etc during the classic Dallas Seminary period! And Jim Boice sure sounded like a dispensationalist to me!
My friend, I would very careful with dispensationalism. Look up the history of Darby, Schofield, Zionism, etc.
To be fair, there are many great men of God who are Dispensationalist. But it is, nonetheless, a hellish error. While I'm personally Postmillennial, I'm totally cool with Amillennialism and historic premillennialism. But dispensationalism is evil.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
MacArthur is constantly hammered for being dispensational but describes himself as a "leaky dispensationalist" bc he doesn't agree with all the dispensations others have come up with.
Jesus: I go to prepare a place for you (John 14:3)
Post Mil: The Church will prepare a place for Him
Question: When we read scripture, is the return of Jesus described as a peaceful event where Jesus is welcomed back to Earth to conduct the Final Judgment and usher in the eternal state by a mostly "Christianized" world, or do we read of the return of Jesus as a violent and bloody event where the Son of God goes to war against His enemies and includes the rescue of Israel (Zech 12-14, Rev 19) ??
Yeah Zechariah fully convinces me of pre-mil.. Replacement theology is absurd and was debunked 2,000 years ago in Romans 11
I'm not sure why Pastor Doug thinks that "according to the Premil understanding, the first enemy to be destroyed is death".
That's not the Premil understanding...
Exactly! Ridiculous strawman argument.
well , I know how, I just haven't figured out the why part
Someone briefly explain the difference between amillennialism and postmillennialism.
Amill and Postmill are actually both postmill in the sense that they both see Christ's return as happening after his "thousand year" reign (the church age). The Amillinialist simply sees that reign as far more heavenly, describing us being in his presence before the resurrection. The kingdoms of darkness and light will grow parallel to one another until Christ's return. At least that's how I've heard Sam Storm's describe it. The Postmillenialist sees Christ's millenial reign as having far more earthly impact, subduing the kingdom of darkness until the last enemy, death, is all that remains. Christ will then return and destroy death.
@@CrossplayGamingTV Thanks brother...exactly what I was looking for.
What exactly is post millenialism? I would really value a concise definition of terms... Maybe it's a dumb question but I get so confused by all the terminology for different positions.
Today (Dec. 16,2021) I posted a comment in this comment section. If, after you read it, you would like me to try to offer some more "concise" definitions, please reply to what I posted this morning.
Anyone near Laurel, MS
What about the mark of the beast on the postmil position?
The mark is not a literal mark but symbolizes who your allegiance is to in your thoughts (forehead) and deeds (hand). The Bible speaks of being sealed on the forehead by God.
@@SerenityNow22 Sarah that’s a really good explanation, thank you for this! I am not sure on my end time views, other than Jesus is coming. But i want postmil to be true. But ultimately my hope is in the Lord. May God bless you richly.
Die Offenbarung hat sich erfüllt. Es gibt ein Hier auf der Erde, und die weitere Ewigkeit ist im himmlischen Jerusalem. Wir sind die Braut Christi, das himmlische Jerusalem. Jesus kam einmal im Fleisch, an Pfingsten durch den Heiligen Geist, und zum Gericht. Alles hat sich ereignet.
So even when I disagree with Doug, I usually at least admire his logic and thought process. In this case, I can’t say even that though. He just said that 1 Cor. 15:26 says that the *last enemy that will be abolished is death, but that Premillennialists say that the *first enemy that will be abolished is death. But that is not accurate. Dispensational Premillennialists do not say that the *first enemy to be abolished with be death. There will still be death all through the Millennium. No one, especially Doug, should be having a “Transformer Moment” over this. Very disappointing… 🤔🙄🙏
It's not just with Doug, but I hear this all the time in the Reformed community that they are convinced of their theology by reading books written by men. Instead of doing the hardwork, studying like Berean's and praying for wisdom and discernment and wrestling through the scriptures themselves with the Holy Spirit as our guide (1 John 2:27), you simply rely on other men's opinions. I'm not saying God hasn't appointed teachers, etc. and we shouldn't read the thoughts of other Christians, there is a place for that, what I am saying is I've often wondered how Doug and others went off the rails with his eschatology and here you have it, he was convinced by the words of men. Another example is I wonder how a Christian could be convinced by Calvinism, and they say I read Luther's Bondage of the Will. I respond do you also now consider ripping out the pages of James (a book Luther rejected) or avoiding the book altogether like Luther proposed? Come on brothers and sisters, how often are we warned about not being deceived by man.
If he must reign(remain there) until all enemies are put under his feet, then how can there be enemies that we subdue at his return? I do not read this event the same way as you are reading it. I am not at this time opposed to either, however there is much that does not fit with this postmil. The stone that struck the feet of the statue was not cut out with hands, and it was not built up by hands to cover the earth, it grew.
You cannot say this world is being ruled by Christ. Far to many children being struck down in the womb, a internet filled with the darkest desires of the dragon himself. Even a husband not having control of his household was forbidden from being in a leadership position of the church
1 Timothy 3:5
“(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)”.
It seems a huge insult to say this is under the control of my Lord. Man's bad decisions are man's alone and he will pay for them justly. When Jesus returns halfway through the tribulation it is the exciting climax to the most epic of stories. By far more epic than has ever graced the imaginations of men. I do not see this as a series in its 500th season and nobody sure how many more to come. Although, with the gusto shown by the church in America today it well might be.
I guess I read Jesus returning... Physically .... and restoring all things. He is the Lord and all things are his. I do not understand how our works will ever attribute to perfection
1 Corinthians 15:50
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
Which is WHY we are changed at the 7th trumpet, in the twinkling of an eye. The dead in Christ rise first and we who remain are caught up to meet him. If we cannot inherit, being flesh and blood, how can we ever call ourselves the builders of the kingdom?
1 Corinthians 13:12
“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
If Paul, my apostle being a Gentile, stated he knows in part, how can any of us claim to know more? (that not being accusatory at all but a statement of fact) I am curious to see what scripture I have over looked.
I have become a regular viewer of many of your videos, this one point (as with the pre trib rapture with Pastor Lawson and Pastor John MacArthur) just seems to not be in the KJV I study.
Hi there. Hope I can help.
The ruling of Jesus Christ ALSO has to do with His Body the Church learning and taking their position. Also prayers...praying in the spirit in the agenda Jesus told us to pray that the Father's kingdom come and will be done. Mixing faith with what we do. Do what we do for the sake of the Kingdom for the expansion of it. It is a complete repentance (change of mind) to become focused on the present and continual reign of Jesus and also our bit on the earth giving Him "legal right" by our prayers to do what needs to be done in the situation.
To say Jesus rules and reigns and there's nothing we must do is a clear lack of understanding of why God made us. Genesis 1:26 says God gave man dominion over the earth...so it's clearly by us having a revelation of the Kingdom and also submitting to God...but subduing everthing we come across underneath Him.
The problems on the earth aren't because Jesus isn't reigning, the yh are there for a lot of reasons, probably a major one is the lack of understanding of our role and Jesus position and rule, and not taking our place in offensive taking of all things for the Kingdom. Hope that helps.
Imposing on the text is what u Presbyterians and reformed people
Do
If the Kingdom is here, where is YHWH?
I don't really understand how the verses he quoted excluded premillennialism.
The last enemy to be destroyed is death. It's always been my impression that people still die in the millennium: "one who dies when he is a hundred shall be regarded as cut off in his youth" (Isa 65:20). I've always viewed this verse as occurring during the millennium.
It's always been my impression that all the nations will be saved...at the end of the 7 year tribulation. Those that are left alive.
Also "these things will happen during this generation" in Matthew 24. Everything in Matthew 24 occurs during this generation? Including Jesus appearing in the clouds and gathering the elect from the four winds? And appearing as visible as a lightning bolt that flashes across the sky?
Matthew 24:30-31 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."
This happened in the first century?
I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just don't quite understand.
Yeah, I saw the same thing...
And I think he misunderstands "death is the first enemy to be destroyed".
Death being swallowed up in victory refers to glorified bodies for Christians (1Cor.-15). But the last enemy death being destroyed is at the Great White Throne (Rev.-20:13).
And ultimately the New Heavens and New Earth have no death/sin/corruption. But yes, I agree, death is certainly operative during the Millenium, as God destroys people at the start and end of the Millenium.
I love the positive, Christ-focus, Gospel is powerful, view of postmil. My problem with it is its attempt to have the church engage in politics. This is why I am amill.
Why are politics bad? Is Jesus King over them as well?
I am curious why so many are apposed to taking dominion over politics? They never seem to have an answer, is it just because you don't like politics?
@@jpfiero Because the New Testament, by command and pattern, demands the church to be apolitical. Personally, I love politics. I believe Christians should be salt & light in the political system. The church, however, should not.
@@ctvtmo How is that an explanation though? Of course the church shouldn't be the state. If we modeled civil sociaty off of the Bible, we would see a clear seperation between the priests handling spiritual matters, and the judges and city elders (and eventually the king) handling civil matters. Or, to put it in the modern parlance, the Bible teaches separation of church and state.
Postmil separating church and state isn't a problem unless we assume God doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to civics and we should just govern ourselves however seems right in our own eyes.
@@ctvtmo The church is made up of living stones, these same stones are in politics. You can't seperate the two. Do some research into sphere sovereignty, the problem with our society today is that Christians do not understand this concept. The church has handed its responsibilities to the government and the family has handed its responsibilities to the church and government. Government was never designed to handle all of these area's.
Oh yeah
1. That bush, whether it lasts 100 years premill or 100 years postmill, still matters historically. And if Jesus comes back 50 years from now, under a postmill view that bush burns up whereas that same bush gets rejuvenated and is allowed to flourish without groaning under a premill scenario.
2. How would children have enough life experience, knowledge of the world or breadth of historical vision to have an opinion on whether the earth was getting better and better or worse and worse?
"For he must reign" is 1 Cor 15:25. The reign it is speaking of IS the millennium. So many are accepting postmillennialism just because they refuse to accept the millennium as it is described. Reread revelation 19 and 20. Jesus reigns in the millennium, he rules with a rod of iron. That is 1 Cor 15:24, the end comes when Jesus delivers the kingdom AFTER destroying every rule and authority. The millennium is Jesus reigning here, on earth, in person, putting all rebellion out, putting everything under his feet. Is Satan not active now? Because he will be bound for the thousand years, Rev 20:2.
There's nothing wrong with the sequence of historical premillennialism as long as you understand the rapture is the first resurrection (1 Cor 15:23) and gathering to him in Jerusalem to reign. You just have to be willing to accept Christ's physical reigning in OUR reality.
So many believers don't REALLY believe in a real, physical Jesus. We've so subconsciously accepted the neognosticism of today of going off to heaven as spirits. That's not biblical! So many can't even conceptualize Jesus being literally, physically right on front of them instead of in some ethereal dimension.
-Trumpet
-Christ descends
-First resurrection and gathering of saints (rapture)
-Satan bound
-Thousand year reign of Christ
-Satan released, he gathers the unbelievers still living on earth during this time (another thing people don't want to accept about millennium)
-Jesus victorious and great white throne.
-General resurrection and judgment
-Death itself destroyed in lake of fire (notice this lines up with 1 Cor 15:26 AFTER Christ's coming.)
-Now "the end" comes of v24 since the "after"s are completed. And the Son delivers the kingdom to the Father who makes his home with man bringing the home, new Jerusalem, with him, which he had promised he was preparing.
This sequence overlays every biblical passage. Not every passage has every event, but the sequence never changes. When they are overlayed they fill in the sequence.
But saying Christ comes after the millennium is objectively out of sequence.
“But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.”
Matthew 12:28-29 ESV
Did Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God? Yes. The kingdom is here NOW. Not future.
Satan is bound now from deceiving the nations like he did in the OT. God is plundering his house.
@@SerenityNow22 The Kingdom and the millennium are different things. The kingdom of heaven is certainly here, yes, no where did I disagree. But it's not the millennium. The millennium is after the resurrection of the saints. And the resurrection after his coming and the coming after the blast of the trumpet. There's no confusion on that sequence if you simply read it.
The phrase “keep you from” in Rev. 3:10 is “tereo se ek” in Greek. Tereo appears 75 times in the Bible and is translated “keep” 57 of those. “Se” means “you”, and “ek”which is translated “from” in Rev. 3:10 is often translated “out of”. It literally means to be out of both the time and place of the event it concerns. Therefore it’s correct to say that the Lord will keep the Church out of the time and place of the hour of trial being referenced in Rev. 3:10. This translation makes Rev. 3:10 agree with 1 Thes. 1:10 where Paul said the Lord will rescue (deliver) the church from the wrath to come.
John 17:15 is part of a prayer that begins in John 17:6 and continues through John 17:19. Jesus was offering it on behalf of His disciples who were there with Him on the night of His arrest. Some try to use this verse as an argument against the pre-Trib rapture. But to do so, they have to change both the purpose and scope of His prayer, which was to seek divine protection from Satan for His disciples.
We are fast approaching the third day and the seventh day. The lawless one is coming; be watchful and hold fast to the Lord.
Yep, and these people are going to fall away when things get tough because they thought they were supposed to fix the world not trust in God.
We watch for Christ, not a mythical Antichrist.
@@kylec8950 Which is why you will end up worshiping the wrong messiah.
@@sweatt4237 Not a chance there, Sweatt. There is only one Messiah. When he returns physically, it will be unmistakable. The dead will rise, my body will change in in the twinkling of an eye.
@@kylec8950 Yep, when he returns to slay that "mythical Antichrist" like the Bible clearly teaches.
Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better (even though it certainly doesn't look like it is) with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2nd Timothy 3:1-5 it says, “There will be terrible times in the LAST days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God." IF Christians and thereby Christ were reigning, do we really think we would have over a billion Muslims, who view Jesus as a prophet right below Mohamad, a billion Buddhists, who believe Jesus was an enlightened person, a billion Hindus, who believe Jesus studied yoga and became a guru to the Jews, a billion Catholics who are entrusting their souls to Mary at the hour of their death, nearly a billion atheists, the LGBTQ running rampant, TV shows and movies, that continually blaspheme God and His Christ, drinking, drugs, and colleges that have become propaganda mills that promote Godless, Big-bang theology and Darwinian Evolution, human trafficking, and a host of other sinful deeds that will be eliminated during the reign of Jesus Christ, our Holy God. This is a good example of eisegesis; reading pre-conceived ideas into the text, rather than simply reading what the text is clearly stating.
Yeah, the world's a mess and I can't see it changing, not in the past or near future. I always wanted to escape it.
Is it possible the death of Adam on that very day he ate the fruit was not a biological death, just perhaps? Then the heavenly land Abraham sought that Jesus spoke about - "flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God" - becomes something not what we were all taught in most churches. Born to die biologically, like a seed planted in the ground, to become sons of God shining like the stars forever.
Dispensational, Post-mill, and A-mill were always confusing and did not add up for me. How could Jesus suggest He would return on the clouds in the lifetime of those standing in front of him? I think He did, just not the way we are taught in our history, creeds and confessions, along with our empirical interpretations as well. Maybe we don't escape this biological realm until we biologically die.
Well, we can't be right about everything.
Takes sip of whiskey
I don’t know what any of this jargon means, but until the day of the Lord arrives, the best practice is to be found doing what He commanded.
I’m also ready for the rapture. Come Lord Jesus!
In the parable of the ten virgins, the ones who weren’t ready didn’t make it to the wedding because they didn’t have enough oil (thought the bridegroom was coming soon). The ones who made it had enough oil because the bridegroom delayed and they were prepared for that. Let the reader understand.
Good interview. Doug does not, however, live in the real and rightly divided scriptural world. Much of the NT was written to the jews primarily. Even Jesus told us why He was sent primarily.
Paul was then commissioned by the same Lord, in Acts, to explain the mysteries (hidden things) of the church and His coming for His bride, and more. He will indeed will fulfill all of His promises made, including His defeating death, but many promises thru Isreal (the nation) again, just as He promised Abraham.
Many Blessings
So thankful to you both.for this explanation. The planting of a hedge at the end reminds me of Job praying a hedge around his adult children who were partying and not believers. Everything matters. Everything is effectively altered by believing Jesus O T and N T past present future. He is the same yesterday today and forever. Jesus is the Word incarnate. So the whole of Scripture must be logical from The Logos. Eschatology matters and must make ultimate sense. We are to be witnessing to the Truth and the marvellous Gospel. That’s our job ? Until He comes again to wind up this World and restoration and recreation back to the Original Eden perfection for a New Heaven and New Earth. The rapture escape clause has never made sense and always seemed like imposition on the text eisegesis not exegesis of the text of Scripture informing and explaining the future or Eschatology .Building upon Gods Word alone Sola Scriptura is the only way forward for a Biblical Creationist Christian worldview and timeframe. 6000 years Creation Week .
So, I am not as read up on my eschatology as I ought (to my shame), but have inclined toward Amil for many years. Yeah, I know Jesus is coming but as well, we are dying and we will die.
I’m not clear how things are getting better when everything ends in death before it results in life (1 Cor 15:36).
Our aim in light of death is to urgently proclaim the gospel counting all things a loss (even the shrub I just planted) compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ.
*Not trying to debate. I respect Wilson a great deal. Just thinking out loud. I know have more reading to do especially if I decidedly change.
Postmill is not just wrong, it's the opposite of scripture. It's ruthlessly stupid. It's not even possible. It really comes down to between Amill and Historic Premill.
John Calvin’s view on the PreMill perspective:
“This fiction is too puerile to need or to deserve refutation. Nor do they receive any countenance from the Apocalypse, from which it is known that they extracted a gloss for their error, (Revelation 20:4,) since the thousand years there mentioned refer not to the eternal blessedness of the Church, but only to the various troubles which await the Church militant in this world” (Institutes 3.25.5).”
You better tell the Puritans how stupid their eschatological view was. The PostMillennial hope is what built America.
You need to study up on church history before calling a view you clearly know nothing about “ruthlessly stupid”.
so, "the world getting better or not" thingy is problematic for me because of the technology evolution hockey stick world we live in. Simply, AI scares the hell out of me. Throw in the very evident "dopamine effect" of social media, and we are brewing a very frightening future and future generation. In short, something has to give. Either God intervenes and shakes things up dramatically, spawning a new revival, or it's not looking promising. One hundred years to see that tree grow? Not likely at the rate our world is spiraling into a godless black hole.
The odd thing in all of this is that I've recently developed a large craving for figs...
This is my first issue with postmil if I am not misunderstanding it, like Doug says, his children responded with "worse and worse". I am the same way. The demonic activity is becoming so in your face all the time now it is vile. As a young man, in my early twenties, I see what they are doing to our younger generations through different social medias, apps, technology like you mentioned and it is BAD. Humans and all of God's creation is under attack like never before. Our food, our water, our livelihood...
Even so, come quickly Lord.
I get what you're saying sort of...somethings gotta give! It could get bloody or a revival? The fig part cracked me up! Thanks
Why are they sitting in an abandoned warehouse?
BTW Love this stuff.
Let me guess u got special revelation 🙄🙄🙄
But this world is dying. Things are worse than ever before. There are cycles but we are clearly on the downside of the cycle. Ancient people were smarter than we are. Things got worse in the Dark Ages and then Europe built back up. We reached another Golden Age in the Renaissance and continuing on into the early Modern age. Progress was made, but then we saw the early seeds of our destruction in some minor Enlightenment figures, even though most of the Enlightenment was Christian. Things continued improving in the 19th Century with most people in Europe and its outposts being at least nominally Christian. There was a subtext building with liberal theologians, radical critics of Western Civilization, and meliorists who saw that we could bring in the Millennium if we just gave up traditional ways of life and traditional concepts of the Bible. Atheism became more prominent into the 20th Century. Only by the 20th Century were we back to the living standards of the Roman Empire. Then the world wars hit, theological liberalism became the dominant brand of Christianity, the totalitarian state arose with over 100 million murders, mass society arose in the West, Christianity fell from public prominence. Then the 60's brought in the Sexual Revolution and radical feminism as well as attempts to destroy natural boundaries of people so that people begin losing any regard for people around them. See Robert Putman on the socially destructive effects of racial diversity. The family is disintegrating, women don't have children--especially the smarter women so that the entire population is shrinking and becoming dumber. Christianity is fading from its place in the West at a faster pace with supposedly Evangelical theologians pushing racial integration that destroys the distinct nations and civilizations. The world is coming together--setting up the Anti-Christ arising from the "Sea," i.e. the Sea of Anonymous social atomistic people who are cast away from any natural grouping. We are on the brink of collapse and with it either we will enter another dark age or the Tribulation.
Sounds like a new drug
Augustinian Protestants 😬
Where are they both having a SHOT while discussing the Bible
No surprise his exegesis on this topic is poor. He is a Calvinist after all.
“Better” is something you are getting pretty sloppy about.
Religion is weird.
Im not sure what pre vs post milleniumism is. Bible seems to indicate a rapture, the ending of Jacob's Troubles and mans judgement, a millennium rule with pre-floodish lifespan, and then Satan's release, defeat, judgement of all life, the reward of fire lake for lawbreakers, abolishion of sin and death, rewards, a new creation, and the new. Not sure how classifications get made. Just read the Book and believe what it says.
That is pre-milleniumism I read the Book as well and I don't find it as clear as that. If a preacher hadn't said something like that I would not have come to the same conclusions.
@@matthewsheppard7050 It's funny, most of the indicators i found actually were not taught. Things like this: Zep 2:3 - Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the LORD's anger.
Or the idea that 6 days are given to man to work (man's working) but the seventh sabbath day is set apart to the Lord. Also pesach week, Messiah shows himself 3 days and is tested, is killed in the fourth day, three days and nights in earth, as Jonah's sign, completion and rises foreverat about 3pm-sundown. 8th day (sunday) is feast of firstfruits, whereas Messiah is the first fruit, whereas at the end of the seventh millennium?? The world is melted down in fervenent heat and the new is brought forth. I believe God's word so much richer than we know....
Or you could actually study what the Bible says about the end times and not try to determine what the future will be based number patterns that may or may not mean the same thing to you as they did to the Hebrew that first wrote them down. This would be a good place to start. www.ligonier.org/learn/series/last_days_according_to_jesus/the-end-of-the-age/
Some bad theology goes on with these guys.
OH yah? Like what?
@@kylec8950 Well, unfortunately they are Calvinist in their thinking, but that's not what I mean. Pre-Millennial is the very obvious biblical perspective.
@@syfeb So they are Calvinist and NOT pre-millennial, seems they are very Biblical to me! What makes you say "Pre-Millennial is the very obvious biblical perspective."? If thats the case then I wonder why the early Church labeled it a heresy called Chiliasm.
@@kylec8950 See, this is part of the error. Do you still subscribe to Catholicism? Because that's what Calvinism is, Catholicism-lite.
@@syfeb Oh yeah? How so? Please explain that one
So Wilson left racism for Postmillenialism? 😁