*Rectification: at 2:07 Siebe Henstra is talking about 'pennetje' (Dutch), which can best be translated as 'plectrum' or 'quill' (and not 'pin'). Also, at 6:42 Leo van Doeselaar mentions the instrument of Anton Walter, but by this he means the instrument of Weiss, which appears at 4:52.
These fine musicians had mastered instruments that required different technic than what is critical for the type of instruments like Piano et forte that Bach helped Silbermann design, sold and promoted avidly. Expression of nuanced dynamics is achieved by engagement of wrist on hammer-action claviers. And it is a special skill that once mastered, pays back with great expression. But organ and harpsichord do not require such approach since they have no capacity for dynamic diversity. This different technique is likely the major challenge for harpsichord and organ players to deliver dynamically nuanced performance on hammer action clavier. But traditionally they are considered “the gurus” of Bach’s standard for scholarly approach to his music ( valid for their true merits on different instruments) I don’t mean to offend anyone, but instead, am trying to help the intentions of the composer to come through. I know NBS cares a great deal about passionate performance of Bach’s music and SATO is superb at this on violin! Let’s remember that Bach had to sacrifice a lot for his musical rebellion of insisting on diverse dynamics during his time that we take for granted today - thanks to him... Time to honor this...
Netherlands Bach has created one of the most important video libraries of not just performance but also educational materials. Unique, so far as I know. Thank you, NB.
love these guys and the lifestyle portrayed here. Seeing them in this more casual setting and getting a glimpse of their homes is just such a treat (on top of all the musical value and insights provided)
Normally every organist starts out as a pianist. Tried to learn the organ as my first instrument, all teachers required me to have at least a year or more of piano training done before they would take me on.
Yeah, I started with Organ when I had 9 years of Piano experience. It was just surprising, because personally, I think its pretty difficult to get enough practice time for both the instruments, to be playing at such a high level as Van Doeselaar...
What a treasure trove! Even old Bach lovers like me pick up a new thing or two every time Mr. van Doeselar plays or speaks. Thanks yet again and cheers!
Fascinating! It makes a refreshing change to see and hear more personal views like this, which are still informative and inspiring. And what wonderful collections of instruments! Thank you very much.
Wonderful to hear these masters discuss it all; the general NBS fan might not think about these issues, but keyboardists thirst for the instrument info. We usually cannot carry our instrument in a case to the gig, after all ;-), but coax the music out of whatever instrument we play at any given venue.
The single most important innovation in the piano was the introduction of the cast-iron plate by Steinway, around 1850. It allowed the strings to be heavier and under much greater tension. This increased the sustaining power of the notes dramatically. It made the piano more of a "singing" instrument. Before that, notes died away so quickly that long notes were imagined rather than heard. With heavier strings came heavier hammers. This allowed for the powerful fortes of the modern piano.
Sehr verständlich und informativ! Es ist erstaunlich, dass die authentische Tradition der deutschen Barockmusik viel besser in den Niederlande als in Deutschland konserviert ist. Danke wie immer!
Bach is p e of those composers whose music can truly be beautiful on just about any instrument. I even play Bach on my various digital keyboards and I enjoy it just as much on those as my acoustic instruments.
Very nice. Please do more of this video's, i really want know the story behind the instramenet ans peiced (like the passion) And please please be more active on Spotify
Informatief en mooi filmpje! Mij is alleen nog niet duidelijk geworden of Bach ook op een fortepiano heeft gespeeld. Hij moet de ontwikkeling ervan van nabij hebben gevolgd. Een bepaald instrument ontbreekt nog en dat is het zogenaamde "Lautenwerk" waarvan Bach er twee in zijn bezit had en dat was naar verluid zijn favoriete instrument naast het clavichord. Dat doet mij de mening post vatten dat de muziek van Bach expressief genoeg geïnterpreteerd mag worden, dus ook een moderne vleugel is denk ik, mits mooi vertaald, genoeg om Bachs muziek te laten schitteren. Ik vind oude muziekinstrumenten bij tijd en wijle geweldig maar soms neigt het naar zo authentiek mogelijk willen uitvoeren zodat ik soms weleens het gevoel krijg dat men de muziek van Bach als museumkunst ziet, als een oud schilderij en niet als een uiterst levendige expressie.
I agree completely. No question that Bach would have been happy to own a modern grand piano. Were he alive today, I can imagine him using a synthesizer. But you must know that by stating that Bach should be played on anything and everything you are baiting the inevitable purist scolds.
It's so interesting seeing, and hearing, the evolution of these keyboard instruments leading up to our modern pianos. Watching this it occurred to me that the ORGAN has undergone FAR LESS evolution/development than these stringed instruments - with only the addition of electric blowers and computerized stop/combination action, really. And the computers are completely unnecessary for playing an organ, as can be seen in new fully-mechanical-action organs today. The actual organs - the pipes, windchests, trackers, etc., - are made in virtually the same way today as they were 300 years ago.
Fascinating discussion. I had no idea there were all of these options for Bach music. How the heck did they get some of those instruments in those houses! LOL.
I recently played some Bach (little) pieces on a harpsichord and I felt they were meant to be played with the harpsichord. After that experience, playing Bach on the piano become less satisfying as it suddenly feels too loud or too quite. I guess that was why they called it the Forte-piano, since it doesn't have the even-ness of the harpsichord.
Ik vind het prachtig Bach op een Steinway! En je zult het nooit weten maar Bach moet het denk ik geweldig hebben gevonden een piano van nu In die zin zijn muzikanten veel pramatischer dan historici . En hoeft de waarheid niet altijd ver weg gezocht te worden.
@@christianwouters6764 true, but i think that was a rather practical decision. Some of those variations are very tricky to play with lots of hand-crossing. On a mondern piano the keys are big enough so that it's possible to play it on one keyboard. But don't even bother trying it on an old clavichord or fortepiano.
Please, re-record this video and make your point loud and clear both in demos on fortepiano and in your comments. No wonder most comments reflect confusion of the viewers It’s time for bold clarity! Finally!
Jack doesn't pluck the string, the plectrum does. Plectrum is a part of the tongue, that is a part of the jack. Tongue pivots around an axis and so plectrum moves away from the string on the way down, when the key is released. You can see how it works by googling harpsichord and looking at what wikipedia has to say....
@@corgilove2070 J.S.Bach had Piano et forte and sold them too with receipts, while one of them had survived, but is being withheld from the public. Just ask his archive and they will send Engoush translation of it ... and it will blow your mind
I wholeheartedly agree! Read my long comment and follow the link that will blow you mind about Piano et forte that Bach sold and gave receipt for with his signature. Let me know what you think of this liberating news pls
Depends on what you're used to. I would guess Bach himelf would be fascinated... just as he would to hear a Rhodes piano or a Wurlitzer or a Yamaha DX synth. After all the man made use of just about every instrument he could get his hands on. My humble opinion is that the player is more important than the instrument. E.g., I happen to own two clavichords - but I can only play a couple of pages of Bach on them...
You missed the point of this presentation! But it isn’t made clear enough by the presenters who need to admit WITH OPEN CLARITY the error by NBS of recording his clavier music on harpsichord, instead of fortepiano that composer intended for his clavier music.
"This is where The Organist lives." If the world were right, "The Organist" would be living in a castle not a fucking flat sharing walls with two different neighbors.
😆! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE in this video is almost funny, but it isn’t, it is very disappointing... The key Essence is still amiss: the demonstration on dynamically diverse instrument does NOT have dynamic expression! So what’s the point this video is making? Why can’t NBS say openly and with much more clarity: “NBS had practiced traditional blind spot and been mistaken for years, by recording J.S.Bach’s Music for clavier on harpsichords, when WRITTEN EVIDENCE - signed by J.S.Bach sales receipt for >>>Piano et forte
Badura-Skoda was wrong. I am just writing on the subject. Bach was certainly not against Silbermann‘s pianos, but Badura-Skoda made some blatantly wrong claims: she claims the German words „Flügel“ or „Clavicymbel“ could mean piano, however I have checked the terminology in several dozens of historical documents; in central Germany a Fortepiano was always called Fortepiano... so many of her conclusions are wrong. Bach didn’t own a Fortepiano when he died, for instance. Clavier meant keyboard or clavichord. Most of Bach’s keyboard music carries the word Clavier, except Goldberg and the French ouverture and Italian concerto which are for „Clavicymbel“. Probably Bach was thinking of a big diversity of instruments; he owned 5 harpsichords, 2 lute harpsichords (gut strings), a spinet, 3 clavichords and a Clavichord pedalboard. So he was certainly not looking for „the one ideal“ instrument. Btw he must have encountered the first Fortepiano in the 1730‘s or before. In 1740 he designed a new lute harpsichord. So obviously the piano didn’t make the harpsichord outdated in his eyes. A lot can be said and I have already 180 pages about it... just some of the points...
Rozalina gimme a fucking break! Badura skoda is a notorious pseudo historian and a fantasist who doesnt know a hoot about historical instruments or baroque era.
ps: and with your out of control rants in the comment section you really come off as the musical equivalent of a flat-earther. You better keep your tin foil hat on and rush back to your little factory made modern japanese piano to play Bachs italian concert and tell yourself it is written for piano so you can feel special. And I wouldn't be surprised if you would start to claim that Bach wrote his choral vorspiele and organ sonatas for harmonium.... but you most likely already made that claim.
*Rectification: at 2:07 Siebe Henstra is talking about 'pennetje' (Dutch), which can best be translated as 'plectrum' or 'quill' (and not 'pin').
Also, at 6:42 Leo van Doeselaar mentions the instrument of Anton Walter, but by this he means the instrument of Weiss, which appears at 4:52.
These fine musicians had mastered instruments that required different technic than what is critical for the type of instruments like Piano et forte that Bach helped Silbermann design, sold and promoted avidly. Expression of nuanced dynamics is achieved by engagement of wrist on hammer-action claviers. And it is a special skill that once mastered, pays back with great expression. But organ and harpsichord do not require such approach since they have no capacity for dynamic diversity. This different technique is likely the major challenge for harpsichord and organ players to deliver dynamically nuanced performance on hammer action clavier. But traditionally they are considered “the gurus” of Bach’s standard for scholarly approach to his music ( valid for their true merits on different instruments) I don’t mean to offend anyone, but instead, am trying to help the intentions of the composer to come through. I know NBS cares a great deal about passionate performance of Bach’s music and SATO is superb at this on violin! Let’s remember that Bach had to sacrifice a lot for his musical rebellion of insisting on diverse dynamics during his time that we take for granted today - thanks to him... Time to honor this...
Netherlands Bach has created one of the most important video libraries of not just performance but also educational materials. Unique, so far as I know. Thank you, NB.
Harpischord is my favorite instrument. That plucking sound is so satisfying.
love these guys and the lifestyle portrayed here. Seeing them in this more casual setting and getting a glimpse of their homes is just such a treat (on top of all the musical value and insights provided)
Amazing! Love these "real life" Videos, especially with van Doeselaar! Didnt know he was a pianist too..
Normally every organist starts out as a pianist. Tried to learn the organ as my first instrument, all teachers required me to have at least a year or more of piano training done before they would take me on.
Yeah, I started with Organ when I had 9 years of Piano experience. It was just surprising, because personally, I think its pretty difficult to get enough practice time for both the instruments, to be playing at such a high level as Van Doeselaar...
The 'birthday bell' was hilarious!
What a treasure trove! Even old Bach lovers like me pick up a new thing or two every time Mr. van Doeselar plays or speaks. Thanks yet again and cheers!
Fascinating! It makes a refreshing change to see and hear more personal views like this, which are still informative and inspiring. And what wonderful collections of instruments! Thank you very much.
Wonderful to hear these masters discuss it all; the general NBS fan might not think about these issues, but keyboardists thirst for the instrument info. We usually cannot carry our instrument in a case to the gig, after all ;-), but coax the music out of whatever instrument we play at any given venue.
FINALLY a brilliant, simple, straight-forward introduction to these wonderful instruments! And as usual with Netherlands Bach: SUPERB.
Beautiful little stroll through clavier history. Thank you.
The fact van Doeselaar has this much instruments in his house shows how blessed this organization is.
These videos are always lovely, please do more of them!
HERMOSAS HISTORIAS DE ANTIGUOS INSTRUMENTOS.CREADOS POR HOMBRES GENIALES. GRACIAS MAESTROS. DESDE MÉXICO
The single most important innovation in the piano was the introduction of the cast-iron plate by Steinway, around 1850. It allowed the strings to be heavier and under much greater tension. This increased the sustaining power of the notes dramatically. It made the piano more of a "singing" instrument. Before that, notes died away so quickly that long notes were imagined rather than heard. With heavier strings came heavier hammers. This allowed for the powerful fortes of the modern piano.
The harpsichord, clavichord, and fortepiano are my favourite ones.
Sehr verständlich und informativ! Es ist erstaunlich, dass die authentische Tradition der deutschen Barockmusik viel besser in den Niederlande als in Deutschland konserviert ist. Danke wie immer!
Bach is p e of those composers whose music can truly be beautiful on just about any instrument. I even play Bach on my various digital keyboards and I enjoy it just as much on those as my acoustic instruments.
Thank you so much for this video, NBS! I enjoy videos like these a lot.
That was - once again - a very enjoyable video to watch. The enthusiasm of the two for the music and their instruments is catching.
하프시코드 소리 좋아 하는데, 세월의 흐름에 따라 변화된 악기들의 소리는 다들 각자의 아름다움이 있네요.
Thanks NBS!
Very nice. Please do more of this video's, i really want know the story behind the instramenet ans peiced (like the passion)
And please please be more active on Spotify
Fascinating, thank you for a wonderful and fun explanation
We don’t finish to heard Bach, always is a fresh and new
So wonderful!! Thank you both … and team!!
I wish I had the space, both in my budget and in my home, to own all those different keyboard instruments. I am quite envious of Van Doeselaar.
One of the Best Videos!
Very interesting. And thank you very much for the English subtitles.
Two masters!!
An absolutely wonderful video🍃
Dank voor deze mooie mini docu
Informatief en mooi filmpje! Mij is alleen nog niet duidelijk geworden of Bach ook op een fortepiano heeft gespeeld. Hij moet de ontwikkeling ervan van nabij hebben gevolgd. Een bepaald instrument ontbreekt nog en dat is het zogenaamde "Lautenwerk" waarvan Bach er twee in zijn bezit had en dat was naar verluid zijn favoriete instrument naast het clavichord. Dat doet mij de mening post vatten dat de muziek van Bach expressief genoeg geïnterpreteerd mag worden, dus ook een moderne vleugel is denk ik, mits mooi vertaald, genoeg om Bachs muziek te laten schitteren. Ik vind oude muziekinstrumenten bij tijd en wijle geweldig maar soms neigt het naar zo authentiek mogelijk willen uitvoeren zodat ik soms weleens het gevoel krijg dat men de muziek van Bach als museumkunst ziet, als een oud schilderij en niet als een uiterst levendige expressie.
Great way to start my day!
Or end my day...
Great video ! I'm sure Bach would have loved the grand piano. Play Bach on everything you want !
I agree completely. No question that Bach would have been happy to own a modern grand piano. Were he alive today, I can imagine him using a synthesizer. But you must know that by stating that Bach should be played on anything and everything you are baiting the inevitable purist scolds.
@@man0sticks I really don't understand those said purists... Music is art yes but it's also recreative... it's supposed to be fun !
Read my comment and follow the link on distortion of the truth about Music legacy of J.S.Bach
Purists should learn to play J.S.Bach with most bold dynamics on the pianos, according to composer’s intentions
I feel like if I’ve been playing for as long as he did I wouldn’t enjoy it anymore also henstras house is my dream
this is very nice! I never met Bach so I don't know anything about baroque instruments!
It's so interesting seeing, and hearing, the evolution of these keyboard instruments leading up to our modern pianos.
Watching this it occurred to me that the ORGAN has undergone FAR LESS evolution/development than these stringed instruments - with only the addition of electric blowers and computerized stop/combination action, really. And the computers are completely unnecessary for playing an organ, as can be seen in new fully-mechanical-action organs today.
The actual organs - the pipes, windchests, trackers, etc., - are made in virtually the same way today as they were 300 years ago.
Did you know? Mozart's fortepiano was built by Anton Walter, and it lies in own's Mozart home, it's actually a museum.
Fascinating discussion. I had no idea there were all of these options for Bach music. How the heck did they get some of those instruments in those houses! LOL.
I recently played some Bach (little) pieces on a harpsichord and I felt they were meant to be played with the harpsichord. After that experience, playing Bach on the piano become less satisfying as it suddenly feels too loud or too quite. I guess that was why they called it the Forte-piano, since it doesn't have the even-ness of the harpsichord.
Me encantan estos instrumentos.
I love these videos!
This is so very interesting! I would have liked to see the mechanics a bit closer.
Thank you for so much for your research and sharing it
Geweldige video!
Ik vind het prachtig Bach op een Steinway! En je zult het nooit weten maar Bach moet het denk ik geweldig hebben gevonden een piano van nu In die zin zijn muzikanten veel pramatischer dan historici . En hoeft de waarheid niet altijd ver weg gezocht te worden.
Nicely done!
1:49
3:21
4:51
6:16
8:32
I think the Aria from the Goldberg Variations sounds equally beautiful when played on any keyboard instrument.
Bach meant the Goldberg for a 2 manual instrument, so harpsichord would be the right choice.
@@christianwouters6764 true, but i think that was a rather practical decision. Some of those variations are very tricky to play with lots of hand-crossing. On a mondern piano the keys are big enough so that it's possible to play it on one keyboard. But don't even bother trying it on an old clavichord or fortepiano.
Such a good video!!
I always like this informative videos!
nice!
Where does one get a suntan in Utrecht this time of year?
Great !
Please, re-record this video and make your point loud and clear both in demos on fortepiano and in your comments.
No wonder most comments reflect confusion of the viewers
It’s time for bold clarity! Finally!
How about you make your own video if you dont think this ones good enough, i dare you
Bach chibcha desde Colombia 🇨🇴,
Leuke video
Where can I to buy a original manuscript of "das wohltemperierte klavier "?😭😭
Why doesn't the jack pluck the string a second time as it goes down after the key is released?
Jack doesn't pluck the string, the plectrum does. Plectrum is a part of the tongue, that is a part of the jack. Tongue pivots around an axis and so plectrum moves away from the string on the way down, when the key is released. You can see how it works by googling harpsichord and looking at what wikipedia has to say....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpsichord#/media/File:Harpsichord_jack_action.svg
El sonido me recuerda un poco a la mandolina
If Bach had had a Steinway he would have NOT used the other ones... it is painfully obvious to most except you ;)
Bach never had a piano...kind of a moot point.
@@corgilove2070 J.S.Bach had Piano et forte and sold them too with receipts, while one of them had survived, but is being withheld from the public. Just ask his archive and they will send Engoush translation of it ... and it will blow your mind
I wholeheartedly agree! Read my long comment and follow the link that will blow you mind about Piano et forte that Bach sold and gave receipt for with his signature. Let me know what you think of this liberating news pls
Bach on the Steinway just sounds wrong.
Depends on what you're used to. I would guess Bach himelf would be fascinated... just as he would to hear a Rhodes piano or a Wurlitzer or a Yamaha DX synth. After all the man made use of just about every instrument he could get his hands on. My humble opinion is that the player is more important than the instrument. E.g., I happen to own two clavichords - but I can only play a couple of pages of Bach on them...
Agreed. He would probably composed different music had he known a Steinway.
@@Robert_1685 Um, nope.
You missed the point of this presentation! But it isn’t made clear enough by the presenters who need to admit WITH OPEN CLARITY the error by NBS of recording his clavier music on harpsichord, instead of fortepiano that composer intended for his clavier music.
Eureka! You got it right intuitively! Read my above comment and follow the link
i'm waiting for Trevor Pinnock
Maybe Ton Koopman... the maestro Pinnock is resting this years...
@@ruperttmls7985 RIP.
So rude!
Pinnock is alive.
Ahhh!! Finally you took away that annoying music introduction! How did you take so long?? ...finally we can arrive with our ears clean to the videos.
Lol, it is pretty annoying to be fair
"This is where The Organist lives."
If the world were right, "The Organist" would be living in a castle not a fucking flat sharing walls with two different neighbors.
😆! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE in this video is almost funny, but it isn’t, it is very disappointing... The key Essence is still amiss: the demonstration on dynamically diverse instrument does NOT have dynamic expression!
So what’s the point this video is making?
Why can’t NBS say openly and with much more clarity:
“NBS had practiced traditional blind spot and been mistaken for years, by recording J.S.Bach’s Music for clavier on harpsichords, when WRITTEN EVIDENCE - signed by J.S.Bach sales receipt for >>>Piano et forte
Nah
Nobody cares. Just enjoy music.
Badura-Skoda was wrong. I am just writing on the subject. Bach was certainly not against Silbermann‘s pianos, but Badura-Skoda made some blatantly wrong claims: she claims the German words „Flügel“ or „Clavicymbel“ could mean piano, however I have checked the terminology in several dozens of historical documents; in central Germany a Fortepiano was always called Fortepiano... so many of her conclusions are wrong. Bach didn’t own a Fortepiano when he died, for instance.
Clavier meant keyboard or clavichord. Most of Bach’s keyboard music carries the word Clavier, except Goldberg and the French ouverture and Italian concerto which are for „Clavicymbel“. Probably Bach was thinking of a big diversity of instruments; he owned 5 harpsichords, 2 lute harpsichords (gut strings), a spinet, 3 clavichords and a Clavichord pedalboard. So he was certainly not looking for „the one ideal“ instrument.
Btw he must have encountered the first Fortepiano in the 1730‘s or before. In 1740 he designed a new lute harpsichord. So obviously the piano didn’t make the harpsichord outdated in his eyes. A lot can be said and I have already 180 pages about it... just some of the points...
Rozalina gimme a fucking break! Badura skoda is a notorious pseudo historian and a fantasist who doesnt know a hoot about historical instruments or baroque era.
ps: and with your out of control rants in the comment section you really come off as the musical equivalent of a flat-earther. You better keep your tin foil hat on and rush back to your little factory made modern japanese piano to play Bachs italian concert and tell yourself it is written for piano so you can feel special.
And I wouldn't be surprised if you would start to claim that Bach wrote his choral vorspiele and organ sonatas for harmonium.... but you most likely already made that claim.