It really was a shame because Terrance Howard's personality and appearance did resemble very comic book accurate War Machine, but Don Cheadle over the years proved his place. Crazy that he is nearing his late 50's.
Robert did so well in iron man because he played a character that was much like himself in real life. A tragic soul who wanted to change and help people, becoming a hero.
In short there was no chemistry between Robert and Terence and its clear to see in the airplane scene in the first movie. Cheadle and Robert in the other hand are believe friends who have each others backs if shit hits the fan. Terence in some scenes feels like he is in a totally different movie.
@@Wezqu Honestly completely believable. There was some INSTANT chemistry between Don and Tony the moment Don Rhodes appears on screen and it was great. Also, imagine playing like a secondary character, and getting paid more than the main character in the first film, and still complaining about your pay. Was he downgraded to a million for the sequel? Yeah, and sure that kinda sucks, but it's still good pay. To me it just feels like Terrance let his ego get in the way. And I'm happy for it, wish Don was war machine in Iron Man 1 instead.
@@rev0568 Yeah if somebody told him back then the Marvel franchise would be a hit 20 more movies and plenty of cameo appearances for War Machine he would've known it was best to suck it up.
He has way more range as an actor. Terrance Howard is always just the stoic, soft spoken, tough guy. He's not a bad actor, and he has done good work, but he doesn't fit the Rhody role to me.
He got a raw deal . He gets a decrease in pay while your coworker get a raise . Not cool MARVEL IS CHEAP TOWARDS ITS ACTORS. Though RDJ did stand up for his Avengers actors when Marvel wouldn't increase their pay on a new contract he made Marvel pay up and his co workers that raise . A studio thats making billions should share with its workers
Howard's character was never meant to be an equal to Tony Stark in the movie. Howard was paid for his star status, because RDJ had no star status before Ironman 1. So when Ironman 2 came about, things had changed. Howard wanted to get paid as an equal star in the movie. Disney/Marvel disagreed. Marvel turned out to be right. Good for Cheadle. Not so good for Howard.
He wouldn't have been equal, rdj would have still made more in IM2. The issue was they didn't offer him at least his going rate if 3.5 mil at the time. 1mil was an insult
@@camdonking1919 looking at the movie's he played after Ironman, who do you think paid his $3.5m "going rate" lol? Guy should have taken 1mil, do his best performance (he was horrible in Ironman imo), and have a legit reasoning to ask for more going forward. But what happened he got butt hurt, and dropped tantrum.
It's categorically false to say that RDJ had no star status prior to Iron Man. He had been a working actor for over 20 years at that point, had earned an Oscar nomination and won a Golden Globe earlier that same decade. He was a household name, and was widely regarded as one of the most talented actors of his generation at that point. The only issue was that his history of drug use and erratic behavior made him a risky person to lead a potentially high-profile blockbuster franchise. He'd burned a lot of bridges at that time, and even though he was incredibly famous and highly regarded for his talent, very few studios wanted anything to do with him.
@@AgentOracle ah yes one of the most successful IPs owned by the biggest entertainment company with a huge following will die before they could get a few episodes of an animated series out
I like Don Cheadle as an actor in general way more than Terrence Howard. but I always liked Howard's performance as Rhody. I have watched Iron man 1 so many times and I never understand what the director hated about his performance so much.
Sometimes greed and ego leads to downfall. Don took less bag 💰 but ended earning big as the movies went successful. Moreover Don had more chemistry RDJ.
On one hand, I can understand Terrance's perspective... and to be frank, I really liked him in that role in I.M. 1. That said, he had to know he wasn't going to get THAT kind of pay as a sidekick. Sometimes you need to take the short-term cut for longer-term benefit. Iron Man didn't kill his career. HE killed his career.
So, you're telling me if you were promised $8 million, then got told they're renegotiating the contract, and you're getting $1 million instead, you would accept it?
@@Scion141 Look, I don't know if I would accept it either if I were him at that time. It's a lot easier to armchair quarterback with the benefit of hindsight... Then again, if someone like ME were told I was only getting 1 mil instead of 8, I would personally still feel blessed, but your point is very valid. That said, as I clearly said at the start, I can understand where he is coming from. But I also understand Marvel's side. They initially paid a lot to get him due to his credentials, but they weren't interested in paying someone 10s of millions in the long run to phone in a second-tier role. Ultimately, he missed out, and now he knows that, and I think he regrets it.
@@Ojas97 that depends on what the studio wants to pay them, technically they could of been paid near equal, but even then what you suggested might of been more likely.
I think terrance would have been great. Terrance being the odd man out of an insane group of heroes and acknowledging how crazy everything is and getting dragged into mess would have been enjoyable. Someone actually being human. The closest member to a real human is steve but he's so self righteous that he is still far away from the average person. Terrance would have been like a 4th wall audience character. I remember watching Iron Man 1 when terrance found Tony in the desert and he said next time you ride with me. That was exactly what I was thinking.
I can't imagine the scene in Age of Ultron when Rhodes sees the Vision for the first time performed better than what Cheadle did. It's one of my favorite scenes 😂
Love Terrance Howard, and was disappointed when he wasn’t coming back for Iron Man 2, but Don killed it so I was quickly over it, which is usually rare cases.
I find the theory that Terrence was let go because he was difficult to work with quite believable actually you can clearly see from interviews he had a certain ego and stubbornness not to mention the spectacle that is his saga in trying to prove 1X1=2
I thought this was a joke, so I did some light searching to see if this was exaggerated or something. If anything, it's worse. Not only does he think that 1x1=2, but he thinks the square root of 2 is 1.
Let's be honest. The movie was called Iron Man. This was Terrance Howard's ego getting the best of him. They were still going to offer him twice what RDJ took for the first movie and he was the leading role. Sometimes it's worth taking a short game loss for long-term gain. That's what Don Cheadle did. Howard's loss was Cheadle's gain.
@@yutisima RDJ was NOT wanted by the studio for the lead role as he was unreliable, unprofessional and an uninsurable risk . Howard pushed for him as they were friends in real life and actually put his own money up to insure that RDJ would come to work and not flake out on production. It is a shame that when Howard needed RDJ to support him with contract negotiations that RDJ would only think of himself. There would be no RDJ Ironman without Terrence! I'm glad that RDJ could turn his life around and show his incredible acting skills, but it is such a shame that he is such a scumbag friend to Howard.
@@littlepeon i think, as the video said, that RDJ was on really thin ice with that one. Howard was the known and respected actor, not him. I imagine the fear to speak up knowing you're an ex drug addict turning your life around, but well, we'll never know what happened between the two
I really like Don Chaedle and find it a shame his role was diminished in Iron Man 2 due to the Terrance Howard dispute between Marvel and his Agency. I always wonder how the MCU would've played out if War Machine had retained his relevance in the whole of the Iron Man trilogy
Luckily for you War Machine will make a true comeback in the next couple years. In the upcoming “Armor Wars” show to be on Disney +. James Rhodes is set to be the main character
I doubt it would've been much differently. Instead of harping on what would seem like another Iron Suit variant, Marvel would naturally go the route of exploring the other Avenegers and not worrying too much about B tiered heros. Hence why they can have so many Spider Man films across 2 phases of movies.
@@sumarianprince why are you saying that to me? I’m not the one who brought up Don Cheadle. The first guy did. You should’ve brought your opinions to him, not me. No point in me seeing this
Hiring Don Cheadle, who was really seen in the behind the scenes as someone who geniuinely enjoys the character and being a support character for Iron Man, was the best move they could ever make. The man basically owned the role because he understood the nature of the media he is working in. Howard on the other hand, felt like he had this "I'm the big star and I don't care if this movie fails" attitude to him.
That's was makes Rhodey perfect as a friend of Tony Starks. They're two badasses. It's literally in the script too; Rhodey isn't supposed to bend over backwards for Stark. He has his own mind and emotions, he gets in a fight with Tony Stark. He's Stark's friend and helps keep him in line at times. They disagree but also take advice from each other. That's what makes Rhodey's character compliment Tony Stark. He's not supposed to be a freakin kid Robin who just follows Batman around. Love it or hate it, the fact is that Terrence Howard's attitude more fittingly portrays Rhodey. Don was more easily an ignorable sidekick. I don't want Rhodey to be ignorable. I don't want him to be a goddamn pushover. I don't get why you would think the characters shouldn't be portrayed properly. Anybody can like the character they're playing. Few match.
Honestly? It's about ego. Terrence Howard's ego works on Empire, because Lucius Lyon is a man of ego. James Rhodes is all about loyalty - and honestly, Don Cheadle exudes that more, and is a better fit.
This is likely why they canned Ed Norton after Hulk and gave the Bruce Banner role to Ruffalo. Actors with big egos + letting perfectionism get in the way of cooperativeness just don't make good choices for multiple future movies that share the same universe where collaboration makes or breaks this franchise.
@@thepaintingbanjo8894 that and Louis Letterier wasn't even allowed to direct a lot of post production. Norton kept getting in the way and kept taking over a lot of the times. I don't know about you, but I'm a major control freak. If I wasn't allowed to fully direct something every single way I'm envisioning because someone demands it to be *their* way, I wouldn't even want to dream about that person the rest of my life.
I always felt like Terrance and robert had better chemistry. They’re in each other’s faces trying to get their points across. Terrance is also hitting different vocal notes as he speaks, something that my theater teacher always told us to do or look out for when watching films. Don on the other hand doesn’t even look like he’s enjoying himself. He’s a capable actor, he’s just monotone and going through the motions. I really think that Fav’s take on Terrance ‘s performance has to do with Terrance not obeying the tone that Fav wanted to set. Robert and Terrance seem almost inseparable, like one is trying to outdo the other , which i found really entertaining, but also a far cry from the tone Marvel has set for its “characters first,” or character central movies. Marvel likes very distinguished characters and the tone has to be perfect to hit that mark, and Nothing Meta that the audience might notice like two actors trying to one up each other or Terrance trying to outdo robert I should say. That’s the only thing I can think of when they say he did a bad acting job.
@@VonJay i do agree that Terrence Howard is an amazing actor, but I think he would've never worked out for the mcu. Not because of his acting skills, but because of his attitude and inability to work with others. He wasn't a great team player and in a franchise like the mcu being a team player is important. But then again, Hollywood does have a problem with screwing actors over written contacts
@@aldrichjosiah6495 no doubt. I don't see him getting along with everyone else. I Don't mean that in a bts way because I've never been on set with him. And idk how they told him to act but in my opinion, Donnie shined more whenever Terrance wasn't on scene. Donnie is a better actor in my opinion but it feels like the character had a one up on Tony while Don Cheadle's Rhody is too neutral to shift the tone.
@@helenomstreken7577 imo, most of the mcu characters and side characters especially aren't interesting. Not that the comic characters aren't, because they are, but the mcu formula leaves out plenty of literary devices, formidable villains and necessary risks to make these characters interesting. It's because marvel is following a three act, family friendly formula. They're also risk averse and keep things very very simple. However, I've found that the newest phase is taking a considerable risk as it's the most cinematic that I've ever seen the MCU. Well, the shows at least.
The Chead is the best. Love that guy. I'm honestly always excited when he pops up around the MCU (like his cameo in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier). Can't wait for him to take the leading man role in Disney+'s . He deserves it!
I thought Terrence Howard played a good part in the first movie but I had absolutely no idea that Rhodes and Stark were supposed to be good friends. I know now they are supposed to have a turbulent friendship but Terrence Howard played it so straight that I was completely unaware they were friends at all, it just seemed like Rhodes knew Stark through work but didn't have a lot of time for him. Once Don Cheadle came in you could suddenly see the warmth and camaraderie between the two of them. I imagine it's similar to Eric Stoltz as Marty McFly - a hell of a good actor who's just not quite right for that particular role.
@@acekkkkkk Reading through all the comments it seems that people are split about 50/50 on the subject. Not many seem to say "both actors were great as Rhodes" it's either that Terrence was great and Don wasn't or exactly the opposite. Not many seem to be critical of the acting either, just whether or not each actor did a good job playing Rhodes. It's funny to read such strongly split opinions and the fact that most people have good reasons for their preference.
@@acekkkkkk howard felt very special idk why and don was introduced in a not so good movie that might be one of the reasons altought in age of ultron don started feeling like a bro to tony but i always hate it when they switch actors for the same character in a franchise it's always weird just like how they changed the hulk's actor
Yeah i was kinda confused as a kid on why this random air force guy was following Tony around. I legit thought he was trying to get dirt on Tony then ended up becoming friends cause he got a medal at the end. I watched this movie a lot as a kid too, his performance just sucked that much.
Quite the opposite, as another user has stated, RDJ and Terrance felt like they were at each other's faces trying to outdo the other which perfectly fit the dynamic of Tony and Rhodey being best friends and somewhat rivals, at least in the solo films, of course there was no point in building upon that dynamic any further when the future of the character was to be largely sidelined and his role in the overarching story minimized.
Yeah I've always felt it weird that people couldn't differentiate who was the better War machine/Rhodes, although it's subjective but definitively Terrence and Robert in only one movie had a more believable brotherly and equal friendship while Don cheadle is quite frankly childish little brother type in all the movies. And acting wise Terrence is better but I guess as a minor role it really doesn't justify the pay rate there i said it.
This makes me wonder, how much better of a deal was Cheadle? He had a fairly impressive resume at the time too, but maybe he was more down to earth about what the role was going to be/worth in salary. And of course just a better fit for the character (as someone not at all familiar with War Machine outside of the MCU). So I definitely didn't mind it. I sometimes wonder how Norton would have done in the team up movies. Probably not as lighthearted as Ruffalo has been. Less fun to have on set too, I imagine.
As a person to be around for 12 hours a day, ill take Ruffalo every fucking day of the week. Both good actors, but as personalities go -- Ruffalo hands down
Howard was still offered the role, just at a massive pay cut. That means someone (Favreau and other management level people) didn't want him to reprise his role. All he had to do was just take the pay cut and he'd still be War Machine, that was his choice. Don Cheadle likely will forever be grateful to Howard for turning it down. Besides, who doesn't like Donny Cheadle!!
gonna be honest Terrance was pretty bland in Ironman one, from all i've seen he really didnt deserve the pay he got for the first movie. Re-watching the first movie there were times i thought Terrance was just a random soldier with a couple speaking lines. Don Cheadle on the other hand put so much effort and personality into the character, actually felt like he knew tony stark in the movie and not just "hey best friend i haven't seen in 20 years" type shit
@@maiyapride8457 Couldn't agree more, just commenting about all the crying he did as a result of loosing the role. Love Cheadle, he's perfect as his best bud.
@@maiyapride8457 Its true, but that was also because of writing. Don Cheadle already become War Machine. Its big difference, thats why you think he put more in character because he played full character Rhodes and War Machine. While in Iron Man 1 it was just beginning of Rhodes, who is not yet War Machine best part of character. And Iron Man 1 main focus was his origin story that also had impact on weak perfoamcne of Rhodes, while in second it was more about Rhodes and other things not just Iron Man
I’m disappointed that you didn’t mention ike pearlmutter marvels ceo at the time. The guy was pulling all the strings at that time and had a huge part on not paying Terrence
@@SlashManEXE That sounds perfectly in character for him. Perly is the reason Black Widow and Black Panther were not Phase 2 movies, and whiy Iron Man 3 was heavily rewritten to get rid of the originally female main villain.
@@SlashManEXE yep. and the reason marvel TV was so shit for a while. and the reason that an inhumans movie was almost pushed out. and the reason that the x-men were basically killed and replaced with inhumans in the comics. and the reason the inhumans tv show was run on a shoe string budget. he REALLY wanted the inhumans to replace the x-men because he hated that fox was making money off a marvel property. oh yeah! and the reason why we never got a black widow movie until now! or why there weren't that many black widow toys! because boys won't buy girl action figures. hes a trash person and i'm glad they pushed him out. hopefully hell lose all power within marvel altogether, and we can get some actually good marvel cartoons again.
@@Morlock19 He is, of course, also the guy that was responsible for pretty much permanently selling off all those movie rights to Spider-Man, X-Men etcetera in the first place. And one of the very few people who have both the ability and the stomach to be friends with Donald Trump.
@@procrastinator547 probably true. I have seen those movies and when I compare his acting, you can just see how much more comfortable he is as Steve Rogers when compared to Johnny Storm.
@@kyliethelittlespider-mangirl94 I agree. Johnny Storm was actually a very funny character. In fact the 2015 Fanstastic 4 was so bad that... It shouldn't have been made. If anything, Michael B. Jordan was given a second chance in Black Panther.
I wouldn't really call it a second chance for Chris Evans or Michael B Jordan. I think Chris Evans was hilarious in the original. And I'd say Michael B Jordan wasn't a bad actor in the reboot it was just horrible writing
exactly. And then there was "excuse me new girl" and "scarlet, part of me doesn't even want to know" or something like that. He delivered some great lines.
Lmao I was confused with this comment, but I get it now. Just in case anyone else got confused: Neb = Nebula Orb = Power Stone container Rod = Rhodey This takes place when rhodey and nebula went to Morag then Nebula reaches her hand to get the orb, which causes her hand to melt
Terrance Howard has had so many chances to “break out” and make tons of money but he sabotages himself repeatedly. Don Cheadle is a working actor and a professional so is it better to have a “artist” or someone who understands this is a team effort and plays well with others? I think Marvel made a great choice.
3 different Hulks 2 different Rhodes 2 different Fantastic 4 families and Dr. Dooms 4 different Spider Man/Men 2 different Quick Silvers... We've been watching the multiverse of madness all along!! 😳 😜😆😆
The line "It's me. I'm here. Deal with it." is most likely a meta way of telling the audience to not stress about it. At least that's what I think. EDIT: Thanks for the likes!
I actually really liked Terrence‘s performance, the slightly friendly but still professional persona was not seen again by war machine and for me made it a struggle to like wall machine in the future
This is pretty spot on imho. I thought that Terrence Howard's performance was pretty lackluster in Ironman. I was pretty pleased when he was replaced with Don Cheadle. It's hard to explain, but every time Howard tried to give his lines in a military setting, it felt so out of place; it almost felt like Howard was playing DJay (his Hustle & Flow character) as if he had gone into the military instead of pimping/rapping. Meanwhile, Cheadle nailed the part of a career military officer balancing a friendship with someone like Stark. Side Note: I had no idea RDJ was only paid $500,000 for the first Iron Man. I know he was on the career rebound, but wow.
Essentially RDJ had to accept that the studio saw him as a liability. He was humble about this and wanted to work. Sounds like Terrence Howard wanted to be recognized as a draw but wasn't putting in the work.
I was aware about the financial disagreement and that was why he walked away and really, I understand his perspective and why he did what he did. What I didn't know is that he has been publicly stating things about the franchise haha.
To be fair, everyone in the industry who's unlikely to get a phonecall from Kevin Feige eventually bashs Marvel Movies. As James Gunn has implied. It's a great way to essentially promote whatever project you're working on that's not getting the attention you think it deserves while telling everyone that you're a SERIOUS ARTIST.
@@BHRamsay lol u sound like a fan boy marvel movies are great fun but they don’t go outside the boundary And not all actors want to be in that part of the movie. And honestly there are so many actors in Hollywood but really how many ppl bash marvel
@@daemonace5910 they all have to follow Disney set of guidelines/rules Don’t get me wrong. They are fun to watch and they do take their time and effort to keep setting things up and they select great cast with great chemistry that carry the movies but in terms of story , depth , they are very Disney Nothing wrong with that but for some actors they may want to do something more “non mainstream “ for lack of better words That’s why while they are popular , ppl even Mcu fans still choose dark knight as greater super hero movies
dude rdj is literally the perfect casting for tony stark, like both are someone that has struggled with addiction and with substance abuse, i wish we had gotten to see more of that in the movies
I like how Terrence claims he is the one that recommended RDJ to play as Iron Man but it was actually Stan Lee that requested him. Sounds to me like he's bitter over the success of the MCU so he says something like that to show some sort of involvement.
Honestly yes, if you blame Iron Man for ruining your career, that's a sure sign. If the movie went total bust then sure, but the first movie was a hit, and then his career fizzled out because of his own decisions.
With all due respect to Terrance Howard, I'm somewhat with Jon Favreau- I know he was just a side character, but he didn't really do much with the role. He seemed very monotone and uncaring. Don Cheadle was a great replacement, and even if he isn't spectacular all the time, his role generally is well done. Not nearly as bored/uncaring, at least in my opinion
I feel like the monotone acting was just the aesthetic of the time for movies. Marvel completely changed the pop culture of the movie industry with their movies and how they did them.
I like Don more cheerful and funny persona than Terrance, too. However, the comic version of War Machine is really the always serious, no fun military dude archetype. Which kinda fit terrance more. However, i also don't think that the movies need an comic accurate WM either. I like think to be more fun and less serious
@@dieptrieu6564 Don cheedle was more impactful with the character in his first appearance than howard was with his. Also, he is much more cheerful. there was already enough to not be cheerful about with the one guys death in the cave we certainly didn't need more of the sadness.
The script he was working with was a monotone and uncaring character, in Iron Man 1 he was there as a military attache to pull Tony Stark in line. Don Cheedle was given a more comic relief. Thats down to the writers not the actors
I can understand Terrence's perspective. He was friends with Robert D Junior. He pushed for him and then they dropped his pay and cut his part. Terrence is a great actor and he is more charismatic as an actor. But Don... I think he fits the image of Rhode better. He seems like more of a stoic soldier.
@@kellharris2491 Because Downey was the real actor, the main gold bar. Terence was the silver bar. They already paid him 8 mil for his supportive role and for RDJ recommendation even tho they didnt want him, they just stuck with RDJ cause he was cheap. And then by Ironman 2 since RDJ is coming back and was the gold bar in the 1st movie they decided RDJ would get the bigger pay considering he lifted the 1st movie with 500k. Terence should have just taken the 1 mil. Its better than nothing
@@braincell4536 another reason is, sometimes, not all sequel get positive things, lot of sequel getting flop too. Imagine you pay terrence for 8 millions, and rdj for 10 millions, then the movie ia going flop? Terrence should wait to see if second movies is going well, not just drop it
Important to note that the director cut down his scenes. The relationship of characters is acted out in small gestures throughout the film. If you reduce the number of scenes they are in pre-shoot, they have to give a more concentrated performance, become more of an archetype of themselves - hence "supporting role". If you do that post shoot... You simply water down the performance. Honestly, it's crazy to suggest that Howard's performance was the problem, when our only metric of judging that is by taking the word of Favreau, who himself edited Howard out of the movie. Important to note - Favreau's taste in movies is a subject of debate (Jungle book, Lion king, Cowboys vs Aliens? Etc...). It's very much possible that War Machine had was a co-lead in the original movie, and it was Favreau's personal bias that completely changed the tone of the movie. Studios don't pay 4 million for an actor they don't plan on using.
@@serumbae7879 He was considerably better imo. Not that Don Cheadle is bad, he was just directed to be the standard forgettable sidekick. Terence had presence in Iron Man 1.
@@serumbae7879 HE HAD A signed contract YOU FOOL. How would you like to have a signed contract and then get a counter offer that you never received because you were at your mother's funeral and your replacement hired in 24 hours.
To be real honest, in my opinion it was a noticeable difference when Howard was replaced. I like Cheadle just fine, but I really thought Howard nailed it. He had amazing chemistry with RDJ and he just had a better comedic feel. He would have made Rhody a better character. Imo.
The chemistry with RDJ makes sense since they are (or were) actually friends in real life, and in general the natural method acting of the first Iron Man - at least between those two - is probably what made it so good.
I like the fact it's never mentioned in the films that Rhody stealing the Warmachine armour was ALLOWED by Stark. It would've been easy for Stark to switch off the Warmachine armour, but he obviously chooses to let Rhody take the armour. And he never makes it known that he let him take it because that's how cool Stark is.
Nick Fury brings it up when he and Tony are talking in Iron Man 2. Fury: "Lil brother walked in there, kicked yo ass, and took your suit! Is that possible?" He has Natasha confirm that there are security bypasses that prevent unauthorized entry, which basically means Tony let him take the suit.
I was fortunate enough to be on the set of the first 2 movies, and after the first one it was weird seeing Cheadle play the role. TH was perhaps the coolest guy on set. Very nice to all of the servicemen and women, I included. Talked with the guy for a solid 10 minutes about the industry, and trying to figure out what to do when they were done for the day. He was in disbelief when he had no real place to go to off of base outside of driving all the way back to LA for a night-life scene. GP was ...... as unpleasant as the stories about her. Truly! RD Jr. was super in the role. Method acting I believe. I just know that at the time of the first movie TH was coming off of being nominated for the Oscar and he got paid a great fee for Iron Man. If I"m not mistaken he was paid the most for the first flick because of that. If that is the case, the rest of what I believe to be true would make sense. IM2 was supposed to really bring in the War Machine and at the current pay rate of TH, he wanted even more for a sequel that actually was going to be focused on him far more. There is no way a supporting actor should make more than the lead in 2 movies with half of the screen time. Especially when the man that is on screen as Iron Man also has an Oscar under his belt. TH priced himself out of the role. Cheadle was a great pick up for less bucks.
We now have variants and the multiverse. Terrence could easily come back as War Machine from another timeline. Won't happen, but it's cool to think about.
@@DoctorPhileasFragg it's more complicated, if we consider the MCU as the main timeline (which we the viewers consider it as it is) then it would be like the same scene but different characters and not far from the main timeline. The next movie of Spider-man will explain the concept of the multiverse but you can watch Loki (series) for more info. PS: My guess is that they're going to explain this particular scene at some point.
I liked Terrence Howard in the first Iron Man. I would even say that I was disappointed in Cheadle's performance in Iron Man 2 vs Howard's in the first movie. (Maybe that was because it was a pared down role though. I certainly enjoyed Cheadle's work in subsequent movies.) That said, I can't bring myself to feel bad for Old Baby Wipes Howard not getting that Marvel money.
What stands out to me is how few actors were changed in the MCU. Those movies are running for almost 15 years now, so I would expect more actors to be forced to leave the project in such a long time. I also think that we as viewers are somewhat spoiled by that not recasting characters if the actor left policy. Look at Superman or Batman - they were forced to recast the character and it was fine (except for the movies that weren't, but those were bad because the werebad, not because of the recasting) It is just us viewers who make such a big fuzz about recasting roles and stuff.
eh, the superman and batmans movies don't exist at the same universe. it's normal for the actors to change because the movies are reboots, not sequels.
@@huhjanus Except for _Superman Returns,_ which is meant to be a continuation of the first two Christopher Reeve films. Brandon Routh was specifically cast for his resemblance to Reeve.
When I originally heard that his pay was cut to a million if he wanted to appear in Iron Man 2 I took his side considering how much more of a role the character played after the first film. I didn't know that had he accepted he was actually going to have a much smaller role than in the original. So in the end I'm glad he was replaced.
I forget what movie it was, but RDJ and Winona Ryder were cast in the same movie and the insurance company for the production said the studio couldn't use both of them because they were seen as uninsurable.
I actually think he made the correct business decision at the time. He could’ve have made more working on other movies (each movie can take several years of work). Your criticism is somewhat fair considering he wasn’t able to act very successfully in other roles since, but he had no way of knowing what the MCU would become. Odds were that it would end after 2 or 3 more movies like most other superhero movie series before. I mean the Hulk movie right before was ended after 1 movie and that was originally intended to be in the MCU. Hindsight is 20 20, so it is obvious now he should’ve stuck around and even he regrets it.
I really liked Terrence Howard. He was cool and funny. But Don Also does a Spectacular Job but still it would have been amazing if Howard was still War Machine.
Reason being nobody remembered terraces performance as war machine in iron man 1 but everyone remembers don, when I saw iron man 1 a bit ago I forgot he was supposed to be rowdy he fit more like a background character easy to forget about
In the end Howard IS a great actor, maybe even better than Cheadle BUT he wasn't the best Rhodey. The tone of the MCU isn't his strengths. I think there's something in saying it did kind of kill his career, as a superstar, as a name to bring in an audience but I think he still has a pick of great projects.
I just wrote something similar. I actually like Terrance way better in that role but I understand that what he was going for wasn’t what Fav wanted. I absolutely love the chemistry between Terrance and Rob, abs I think that Don is really boring but that’s exactly what Robert needs for the tone to be right. I’m not a fan of Marvel at all, I enjoyed a few of their films, not a fan of the character central focus but I respect their ability to create the tone necessary for huge success. And Terrance would have ruined it. I can’t see him taking a back seat to any of the other actors in an avengers film for instance.
@@VonJay which is the POINT I think. Howard would *never* have let his character sit in the back. War Machine would have had more relevance, a bigger following, bc he'd ask for more lines, scenes etc
@@achieachie911 I absolutely love the exchange between them two. I think marvel fans would love it and he would be a more interesting war machine imo. The suit feels so empty with Cheadle in it.
when your a black man in a whiteMALE DOMINATED industry you got to be careful PERIOD. white men dont like seeing confident black men it makes them very insecure, hence why they love blacks who put up with they ish.
I've dealt with a lot of different soldiers in my life and Howard honestly fit that role more than Cheadle did, but I totally understand why the studio cut him, based on the video and the issues Ive heard/read of in the past with Howard's or his agent. Looking at that time period, when the studio knew they had a road of 10 years of movies down the road for them and these characters, it must have been a huge red flag to see this guy arguing for more money right before the second movie. I bet that they figured this would be a constant renegotiation after every success and frankly was more headache than he was worth. Heck, they were paying the sidekick way more than the leading actor for goodness sakes.
Yes, Howard also seemed more appropriate for me as a stoic soldier type than Cheadle, but it seems after the first movie's success, Disney Execs ultimately concluded him Howard to be a financial liability. Personally, I don't buy that Howards performance wasn't up to par; cutting him was just a financial ploy to save $$$. Even today War Machine still remains one of the more replaceable characters in the franchise. It's likely Disney told RDJ some plans after the 1st movie but purposefully didn't communicate this to Howard's agent. The agent would be doing their traditional job in refusing the $1 mil to secure the most $$$ for an 'in-demand star' instead of having the foresight of the juggernaut franchise. But really, who knew at that point. But the side Howard seems to be coming from is how RDJ didn't speak up for him like how Howard stuck up for RDJ. By this, RDJ played his hand very well, but in doing was a really very lousy friend to Howard. He saw a way forward for himself, but at the expense of a friendship. But this is open to however one sees the values/morals/business in this area. In hindsight, of course Howard and his agents should have taken the 1$ million as a short-term loss, but again, who knew what the mcu would become, and plans likely weren't communicated to Howard and co., and Disney tactically saw a way to cut him and move forward. Ultimately, I guess Howard is still War Machine in another universe. :P
He didn’t have a plan like that at the time tho. The ten year plan didn’t start until the success of Iron Man 2. And, I to this day can’t tell why they disliked Howard’s performance so much, I think that other than RDJ, he had the best scenes, and most enjoyable performance. He was a genuine pleasure on screen as Rhodes.
@@hectorcornejo1468 Take a look at the link I gave Nah Boi. Answers some earlier phase projections for the movies, and while I've read before that infinity war wasn't planned so early, I cannot provide a link for that. And yes, agreed, when all is said and done, the Howard recasting is really just speculation, and I doubt after all this time we'll never really know what really happened. Shame, but eh, that's Hollywood business.
never really thought cheadle quite nailed the role, always thought it was a shame terrence didnt stay on board...but what do I know ive never produced a hit movie, let alone a string of them.
its also hard because their rhodeys are different imo. which is cool that don cheadle didnt try to the same thing but made the role his own. makes it hard to compare tho lol
I think Terrance Howard gives off more of a commanding presence than Don Cheadle. Even though it hurts to have your expected earnings cut to 1/8, it's mean to go after people for things they didn't do. But yeah, acting is a lot trickier than we usually think it is.
I would of still did ky best cuz 1 million is better than 1 dollar we normal ppl working living paycheck to paycheck n that 1 million is what we as normal ppl dream to have
I think the biggest issue with Terrence was his hiring contract: the contract for the first film already covered the sequence, this is very common, to sign and agree with the salary for the next movies, if and when they were to be released, in the contract usually the studio is only obligated to hire with the defined salary if the sequel would be made, which protect the studio if the project fails. These contract are used to ensure the salary of the actors do not deviate and go thru the roof once the franchise is very successful, it is very common for those franchise to sign a contract for 3 movies at least, Chris Evans for example mention several times that he was very reluctant to sign and was convinced by Downey Jr. because he didnt' want to be contractually tied for 10 years. Now back to Terrence contract: according to him, his contract already covered the shooting of the sequence for the same salary, and when disney get back offering less, it should be a violation of his contract. Only then Howard found out that the contract only obligated him to participate in the movie for that value if Disney wanted to pay it, but Disney was not obligated to honor that value if it choose not to do it. this was a low blow, he felt tricked by the legal nuances, which really puts him in a hard spot. Accepting this change not only set precedence to receive less in future projects but also set a precedence to the studio to continue this kind of contractual exploit with him and other actors (something that lawers disney seem to be experts)
@@uthopia27 I wouldn't say it is the same thing that happened to Johansson, at first I would think that it fits in the same category of "predatory legality" where the contract is followed by the letter regardless of what each party expected when they sign the contract, but the aftermath of the case points to a more civilized disagreement because Disney and Johansson are still working together after the settlement and both parties said were happy with the new agreement While Terrence case seems more a douche move from Disney, Johansson case seem something that no one could anticipate: the pandemic and its consequence in the film industry. Black Widow was release in the middle of this culture shift where different interests collide while the status quo and power structures were changing and uncertain. The Scenario So, the first thing to be notice is that Black Widow contract was signed before the pandemic. and the contract included a percentage of the profits of the theater’s ticket, this is something big names (actors and actress) can do, since their names are associates with big sell, people go out to see them, but can also be benefit the studio by tying the salary of the actor with the success of the movie. So, at least in the past, big movies like this one could take 4-6 months to be available in other medias, which is a big incentive to go to the theaters. Is also worth mentioning that the studio and the movie theater owner’s usually split the profit 50-50 and there is a well establish process to count those sells with transparency (since it is the best interested at both parties). On the other hand, the streaming service currently have no obligation to disclaim their “movie views count” or rentals for individual movies, this is usually disclaimed to the investors as a sign of transparency (this information will be important). So, at the time of the contract Johansson expectation was, like any other movie at that time, to be solely released in theaters. but delays occurred, the movie was rescheduled more than once and along came the pandemic, people were not going to the theater, so Disney decided to release the movie on the theaters and Disney Plus streaming service at the same time. So Black Widow was release simultaneously on stream and theaters without any revision on the original contract, but Disney would not continue to do that in future movies due to pressure from the industry (Apparently the theaters have a lot of political power), and the next big marvel movie (Shang Shi) was not released on Disney plus at the same time. Nowadays it takes 3 months for the movie to be available on the streaming service of origin, which seem to be something that the industry is ok with that. All that scenario made a lot of 3rd parties interested in the Johansson vs Disney battle because it could set a lot of precedence, specially on how actors get their compensation. There Is no question that having different alternatives to watch the movie will impact the theater ticket sells, especially during the pandemic. For Disney, releasing the movie in streaming means not only avoid the split of the profit with the movie theater but also promote their streaming service: people have to install the app in their equipment and use the app, which is part of the effort to get users invested in subscribe to their plan. a while after the movie was released, Disney surprised the industry revealing the revenue from Disney+ premier access of Black Widow: 60 million in the first 20 days, this was new to the industry which usually don’t disclaim Video on Demand numbers, only theater and Box office numbers. But the general believe is that they didn’t want to look bad with the fact that the movie did not pass the marker of U$100m of the first weekend in theaters (it got to U$80m) The Lawsuit and allegations Johansson allegation is that her earnings were cut due to unilateral decisions from Disney, and said she tried to disccus the contract with the studio after finding out about the simultaneous release, but Disney were never open for discussion, if I am not mistaken Kevin Feig and/or other involved people were trying to setup meetings but there seem to be no dialog, as you can notice in the scenario there were additional motives for more people to incentive that discussion. Disney allegation was that the contract with the actress already considered compensation for the digital distribution, also for Disney this was more than a negotiation with Johansson it could basically define future contracts of the company and maybe in the industry. In my humble opinion Disney wanted to take this into court, I am not sure about the specifics of the law in US, but where I live (Brazil) if they make an off-court agreement there is still risky for the party to go to court if, for example, Johansson no longer think the negotiation was fair. And for the lawyer’s perspective, just the fact that Disney would be willing to negotiate the contract could look like they consider the currently contract is unfair and needs revision, giving more ammunition to Johansson case. The result of the agreement is confidential, but the dispute made Disney reveal that the movie made more than $125million from online revenue.
..but what was the performance like for all the material they cut?..if all that was usable was in the film, then it probably isn't worth the millions he got paid...
@@Jaycelestra maybe, but did his screen time warrant such a large pay packet? And how much would he expect that to increase as time went on? Marvel got rid of him before he became irreplaceable and far too expensive...
The reason you don't really notice how bad Terrence Howard was is that Favreau used the best parts he could get out of him for the way they wanted the role to be played.
what? how? in my memory of watching whole ironman movies, first time war machine introduced to the series was played by Don Cheadle. i don't even remember when war machine played by another actor.
All jokes aside, I feel like that was just not a good role for Terrence. And no matter his performance, he was just not fit for the direction the movies were taking.
I thought that it was purely because of Howard's and RDJ's egos clashing. This gave much more of a perspective I should've looked more upon. Great video!
I can definitely see it playing a part though, Cheadle & RDJ have good on screen chemistry, they’re actual friends, which Howard & RDJ aren’t so that mismatch might be part of what led to his scenes being cut back for “bad performance”.
Frankly, Howard bringing up RDJ always felt like him being petty. He acts like RDJ had any negotiating power at the time. _Now_ he does, sure, but at the time he was a liability that had only just then proved _his_ own worth. He had no power to vouch for other actors and as soon as he did have that power he actually DID negotiate for higher salaries for the rest of the Avengers cast.
The fact that someone had to point out to me that they replaced the actor playing War Machine in the subsequent movies probably says all you need to know about the impact the first actor had on the first Iron Man movie. He was - certainly in the edit as I know the film - a completely interchangeable secondary character. I honestly had to go back to the first movie to check they were not the same guy.
@@newtfigton8795 Nah, they look literally nothing alike. Mark Brown makes a fair comment, I have no idea how you could not see Iron Man 2 and go 'Oh, they replaced War Machine'. Nobody said 'racism' except you complaining, which probably says more about you 🙂
I like Terrance Howard and I didn't mind him as Rhodey in the first Iron Man. And his situation absolutely sucks, if he was screwed out of the role as he claims. That said...I honestly think Don Cheadle suits the role far more than Howard did. The means by which Cheadle got the role is messy, but it worked out in the end.
I didn’t realize at first that Terrance Howard and Don Cheadle were playing the same character. First time I saw Iron Man, I couldn’t stand James Rhodes. He had one expression and there was no emotional connection. Don Cheadle played the character so differently, so much better, that it never clicked that it was the same guy (I’m terrible with names and still had to look up Rhodes’ name to make sure I had it right, and I am unfamiliar with the Iron Man comics). Nevermind budget, it was a better artistic move. Had Howard still be playing the role when Vision shot down War Machine, I’ve have been rooting for the character to die.
really should never judge a book by its cover, RDJ was grateful for his 500k while the prima donna was butt hurt he was only getting double what the leading STAR got on the previous movie - to do a MINOR role, I know theres war machine fan girls here but hes not that important to really any part of the story - other than a really cool bro shake - like if were drawing straws here, the friendship between captain and RDJ was way more present than a supposed "lifetime" of friendship with howard - "least they got drunk together that one time on that plane for all of a 15 second clip." - meanwhile hes about to break down crying in a fight against his parents murderer and his actual bestfriend - thats how you EARN (key word here) a 8 million dollar pay check - fuck this oscar coasting prissy ego little baby.
Howard thinks 1x1 equals 2 and thinks all the mathematicians, scientists, and teachers are wrong. I have a suspicion that it wasn’t the performance that Jon was unhappy about but an uncontrollable ego on set.
@@allenrodgers1577 wow you ain't joking either - and neither was he lol god, this man is 53 years old and he said that shit - how do you get this far into life and not understand elementary mathematics.
I also think we're just easily pleased. There's at least 50 actors that could've done as good a job or better than Don did. Thinking that only Don could pull it off is why we're in the problems we're in with the future of The Black Panther movies.
@@eduardocod8924 Eh iron man is different. after such a long run with RDJ, its hard to imagine him as anyone else, especially with his connon death being so recent
To be fair, while it's easy to say, "Well, he obviously should've taken it, because look how Don Cheedle made out having taken that," if the explanation for the lower offer was that the director really hated his performance, it's likely that he would have continued to hate his performance, and rather than the growth of the movie role that Cheedle's James Rhodes saw, Howard's would've continued to diminish in focus until they wrote him out altogether. I don't know why the director felt as you say he did, so I can't comment as to whether it was a fair move. But...well. I am not sure Howard made a mistake, here. The actors are not purely interchangeable in the role, so what Cheedle saw his role grow into is not necessarily what Howard would've seen.
@@ChyeHeng17 That's fair, too. I don't really have a preference, myself, and I couldn't tell you what about their performances were different that is due to the actors rather than the director or the writing. But _if_ I am right, then it's the director you have a disagreement with, and even if you're objectively right about Howard's performance being superior to Don's in the role, the director disagreeing would mean that the role diminishes while played by Howard and expands while played by Don. Even if it's something as petty as personal grudges or the like.
@@segevstormlord3713 Don's performance was so dull and easily forgettable. Like nobody mentioned anything memorable from his acting or character. To me, Howard played the role with good personality added to the character. But, perhaps it was not meant to be, if the director didn't like him. Perhaps, he was trying to outshine RDJ? Well, we will never see him being the War Machine though. RDJ has even retired.
Playing Marcel vs Capcom, War Machine is fucking badass. Some people are saying Terrence was being too tough/arrogant and they don't like it. But I disagree. Don is too polite and skinny. I think Terrence would have fit War Machine.
Maybe I'm biased against Howard because I don't like him as a person, but I'm wondering what exactly made him think he deserved 4/5ths of the salary of the man who was not only the lead in the movie, but also the one who was single-handedly giving life and soul to the MCU. Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but even around that time it was pretty obvious that Downey's charisma and appeal was drawing audiences (hence, money) in a way that you don't see with many actors, specially in a genre that, while not exactly "niche", wasn't palatable to most people; not to mention that Iron Man was not exactly Marvel's most popular character. Downey went from being an uninsurable liability to an obviously bankable star who *made* Tony Stark and that's why his pay increased so dramatically. The real injustice was RDJ making only half a million as the leading role in the first one, not Howard being offered one million as a sidekick in the sequel. But I guess Howard didn't see it that way...
@@derek96720 I think it’s because anybody could’ve played Iron Man since most of the character was CGI anyway. Howard was more on screen than RDJ and that would’ve been the case going forward. It’s like the Hulks character, why pay him big money when the Hulk is CGI anyway? People don’t realize that Co-Stars make the Stars look better. Try to replace all the Avengers actors with low budget movie actors and keep RDJ and that movie automatically goes down the drain.
@@SRT_DRE wtf are you talking about? RDJ was definitely more on screen than howard and even when in suit, the innovative HUD kept his face in the scene. And there's a reason People talk more about Tony Stark than Iron man..
Don Cheadle's first appearance was at least twice better and show the chemistry between Rhoades and Tony more than Terrence did in the entire Iron Man 1 movie, and he actually got paid more for it. ONE SCENE
Don Cheadle is a brilliant actor. His performance, dealing with his conflicted and complicated friend, was nuanced and emotional, most of all memorable. Loved it. Terrence Howard just looked bored.
Not true lol. Howard's character was fun and care about tony more than Cheadle did. Cheadle's character just looks like he's fed up with everything tony does.
To be honest, plenty of side characters are in the MCU, and Terrance didn't deserve the pay cut. Either you rehire someone, or let them go. Don't insult them by telling them you think their worth less than they think, after winning an award. I haven't seen any comments about Terrance doing a bad job. And I love Don, but he's too small to play Rhody.
I thought Terrence did great with the role tbh. His chemistry with RDJs Stark worked very well. My impression has always been that he was more of a handful to work with behind the scenes than the director cared to deal with. For my part, the pay cut just felt like a slick way to make Terrence walk away without the drama of having to fire/remove him.
Howard seemed like a diva in some of the interviews I saw him give. I really liked him in Hustle and Flow, but he appears so few times in Iron Man that it felt like they could have cast some aspiring actor for the role, instead. I didn't know the studio didn't want RDJ at first, which seems effing insane lol
I actually really liked Terrance Howard as 'Rhodey', my issue was his recasting who looked completely different to the original choice (similarly like Ruffalo over Norton). I just don't get Howard was suddenly 'unsuitable' as he must've tested well to be cast, moreover why not recast when Favreau realised it wasn't working in the early stages of production (like Michael J Fox replacing Eric Stolz as Marty McFly)
look it up. the big guy of marvel was a racist among other things and thought all black people look the same so he recasted whomever. but everyone under him didn't like that so they were thrilled when they finally got rid of him
If you are going to recast, the worst thing you could do would be to just go by whoever looks the most like the guy. Clearly they wanted something different than what they had.
@@Koooo4 I personally disagree, for me to recast with an actor who looks completely different from the previous takes me out of the film slightly as another character has to announce their presence in a scene (much like the courtroom testimony scene in Iron Man 2), to go from a light skinned black man with certain features then change to someone with dark skinned feels somewhat lazy to me. If Iron Man were a rebooted property away from the RDJ films I wouldn't have a problem, nor do I have an issue with Don Cheadle, more the way of the casting replacement.
@@dannyr2976 It's not like people arent going to notice a recast just because they look more alike. There'd still be a need to announce their presence. Howard was in one movie where he didnt play a major role. Lots of people didnt even remember him lol
OMG hahahaha I was looking for this comment. 1x1=2. He made his own language too LOL This guy Terrence is a annoying and a weirdo. If you look at his violent history to air hostess, his ex wives, divorced & remarried the same wives again... goes to show, he's just indecisive & has problems with compromising. Definitely the type always think he's entitled to some thing. I never like him since Hustle & Flow & 50 cent movie. There's just something about him he was annoying. You can tell sometimes from an actor's performance in movies that he's just not quite right upstairs in the head. And Bingo. I was right.
I actually enjoyed Terrance Howard's performance as Rhody more than Don Cheadle's. I was pretty bummed when the second movie came out and I saw the switch. I like Don Cheadle, don't get me wrong. I just preferred Howard's take on the character
Terrance Howard is a more likeable actor. It's no disrespect to Don Cheadle, Don is great! But Terrance has a surprisingly fun and likeable on screen persona. Howard felt like a war machine you would want to hangout with. Cheadle was a war machine who reminded me of Jerry Rice; dedicated, focused, and his idea of partying with friends is to say goodbye to his friends as they go off to party and he goes to the gym for a late night workout.
@@srr9930 Everyone is entitled to like who they like. So yeah this guy did not like Terrance. I did not either and was hoping they would write the entire character out thinking it was the writing of the character I did not like. With a new actor I liked it fine. Everyone has their own take on things . You like the way it was played originally. You are not wrong.
I really liked Terrance Howard in the first movie, and expected him to come back for sequels. He was perfect for that role. And his armor was literally like Iron Man himself. If he'd just accepted that "smaller" paycheck for Iron Man 2, he would have made a fortune just sticking to his character. But now its too late for that. Must have been frustrating to see how "his" role just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger. He missed out on being a full part of this now legendary set of movies. Its a tragedy really.
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"NEXT TIME, BABY!" - Terrence Howard, Last online 11 years ago.
Lol funny definitely didn’t see the same joke on another video.
RIGHT IN THE FEELS I SEE
@@LJV2 welcome to internet buddy.
Pedro space, music start
@@LJV2 I've seen your type of comment everywhere pointing out stolen comments like it's a hate crime
The fact that Terrence said, "Next time baby!"
And never got that next time. 😔
But it wasn't Terrence it was Rodey who said it and he got that next time
And then in the 2nd movie, in his intro, Don Cheedle the legend says: "Look it's me. I'm here, deal with it. Let's move on"
and Don said "Boom lookin for this"
Idk I like both performances, I'm just disappointed that we couldn't keep the original actor
Well, to be fair the multiverse is here to maybe give actors like Terrence to actually get that "next time"
It really was a shame because Terrance Howard's personality and appearance did resemble very comic book accurate War Machine, but Don Cheadle over the years proved his place. Crazy that he is nearing his late 50's.
*DAYUM* … 50 I’m so sorry lol
50?! Nah that man is 28, I swear
@@mrpineapples4752 Don’s reaction:😐
@@youngvicious1017 😭🤣🤣
I thought he was in his 20s
Robert did so well in iron man because he played a character that was much like himself in real life. A tragic soul who wanted to change and help people, becoming a hero.
Don Cheadle felt like he genuinely enjoyed playing the character
Terence's performance felt like he didn't care for the film or the characters
In short there was no chemistry between Robert and Terence and its clear to see in the airplane scene in the first movie. Cheadle and Robert in the other hand are believe friends who have each others backs if shit hits the fan. Terence in some scenes feels like he is in a totally different movie.
@@Wezqu Honestly completely believable. There was some INSTANT chemistry between Don and Tony the moment Don Rhodes appears on screen and it was great.
Also, imagine playing like a secondary character, and getting paid more than the main character in the first film, and still complaining about your pay. Was he downgraded to a million for the sequel? Yeah, and sure that kinda sucks, but it's still good pay. To me it just feels like Terrance let his ego get in the way. And I'm happy for it, wish Don was war machine in Iron Man 1 instead.
@@rev0568 Yeah if somebody told him back then the Marvel franchise would be a hit 20 more movies and plenty of cameo appearances for War Machine he would've known it was best to suck it up.
@@rev0568 he got paid more because he was an oscar nominated actor, while rdj was fresh of rehab and prision. It was a wonder he was hired at all
Maybe movie chemistry, I thought Robert and Terrance were buddies going into Iron Man --Terrance supposedly suggested Robert to begin with....
They both did a good job but Don Cheadle really embodies Rhody for me. He's had much more time with the part so I guess that makes sense.
same
@@DyslexicMitochondria hey bro i watch your videos. Love ur channeI
He has way more range as an actor. Terrance Howard is always just the stoic, soft spoken, tough guy. He's not a bad actor, and he has done good work, but he doesn't fit the Rhody role to me.
@@CaptanF0rever and he don't look like he would work in an Iron man-ish suit
Yeah, that's sort of how I feel about it. It's hard to say how we would feel about Howard in the long run.
IMO It's hard to compare them since Terrence didn't even had the chance to wear the suit or get into action
To be fair don barely wears the suit anyway since he barely ever shows up
He got a raw deal . He gets a decrease in pay while your coworker get a raise . Not cool MARVEL IS CHEAP TOWARDS ITS ACTORS. Though RDJ did stand up for his Avengers actors when Marvel wouldn't increase their pay on a new contract he made Marvel pay up and his co workers that raise . A studio thats making billions should share with its workers
@@speedracer1945 lol don cheadle was the THIRD MOVIE. wdym billions?
@@speedracer1945 Not really a raw deal 1million for being a side character that barely has to show up is a lot.
@@LucyWest370 Don Cheadle was in Iron Man 2.
Howard's character was never meant to be an equal to Tony Stark in the movie. Howard was paid for his star status, because RDJ had no star status before Ironman 1. So when Ironman 2 came about, things had changed. Howard wanted to get paid as an equal star in the movie. Disney/Marvel disagreed. Marvel turned out to be right. Good for Cheadle. Not so good for Howard.
He wouldn't have been equal, rdj would have still made more in IM2. The issue was they didn't offer him at least his going rate if 3.5 mil at the time. 1mil was an insult
@@camdonking1919 looking at the movie's he played after Ironman, who do you think paid his $3.5m "going rate" lol? Guy should have taken 1mil, do his best performance (he was horrible in Ironman imo), and have a legit reasoning to ask for more going forward. But what happened he got butt hurt, and dropped tantrum.
It's categorically false to say that RDJ had no star status prior to Iron Man. He had been a working actor for over 20 years at that point, had earned an Oscar nomination and won a Golden Globe earlier that same decade. He was a household name, and was widely regarded as one of the most talented actors of his generation at that point. The only issue was that his history of drug use and erratic behavior made him a risky person to lead a potentially high-profile blockbuster franchise. He'd burned a lot of bridges at that time, and even though he was incredibly famous and highly regarded for his talent, very few studios wanted anything to do with him.
But Tony Stark wouldn’t be alive if it wasn’t for Howard Stark, and he laid the groundwork for Tony’s arc reactor
@@AtomicSquid_Talking about Terrance Howard bud, the actor for Ironman1’s War Machine, not Howard Stark, keep up squidward
Looking forward to Rhodes being front and center in Armor Wars
Assuming we get Marvel for that long - Sad time for the franchise ahead.
@@AgentOracle wait why, what happened?
@@AgentOracle You’re talking out your ass
@@AgentOracle as though marvel is suddenly gonna die on its ass, it’s here to stay for a while
@@AgentOracle ah yes one of the most successful IPs owned by the biggest entertainment company with a huge following will die before they could get a few episodes of an animated series out
Fun Fact: Don Cheadle is very confused as to why he won that award.
Yeah so am I. He did jack shit in that show.
I didn't even know he starred in it or had a role in it till now. Granted I didn't watch it either but I never heard anyone speak about his character.
@@thecrazyslopoke
That's EXACTLY why he's confused about it. Lol
@@lastmanstanding7155
He was in the show for ONE scene, and he did nothing in that scene. Not much to talk about. XD
@@salkjdfhalsdgfkauhg
Wow and they gave him an award? That's really odd.
“Look it’s me, I’m here, deal with it.” Real AF way to address the swap
Simplest and best way to address it in the movie. It worked and made sense to the characters relationship.
Agreed, very chad-like way to do it
I personally liked Terrance's performance and wouldn't of minded seeing him go all the way; but business is business and I like Don too.
I know, me too. I was kind of disappointed he wasn’t in the 2nd film. However, his replacement wasn’t bad either.
🙌
I like Don Cheadle as an actor in general way more than Terrence Howard. but I always liked Howard's performance as Rhody. I have watched Iron man 1 so many times and I never understand what the director hated about his performance so much.
Sometimes greed and ego leads to downfall. Don took less bag 💰 but ended earning big as the movies went successful. Moreover Don had more chemistry RDJ.
On one hand, I can understand Terrance's perspective... and to be frank, I really liked him in that role in I.M. 1. That said, he had to know he wasn't going to get THAT kind of pay as a sidekick. Sometimes you need to take the short-term cut for longer-term benefit. Iron Man didn't kill his career. HE killed his career.
So, you're telling me if you were promised $8 million, then got told they're renegotiating the contract, and you're getting $1 million instead, you would accept it?
@@Scion141 Look, I don't know if I would accept it either if I were him at that time. It's a lot easier to armchair quarterback with the benefit of hindsight... Then again, if someone like ME were told I was only getting 1 mil instead of 8, I would personally still feel blessed, but your point is very valid. That said, as I clearly said at the start, I can understand where he is coming from.
But I also understand Marvel's side. They initially paid a lot to get him due to his credentials, but they weren't interested in paying someone 10s of millions in the long run to phone in a second-tier role. Ultimately, he missed out, and now he knows that, and I think he regrets it.
He shouldn't be paid his worth? Lol.
@@Scion141 if you look at it he was over paid in the first movie but they did do him wrong dropping him that much
@@Ojas97 that depends on what the studio wants to pay them, technically they could of been paid near equal, but even then what you suggested might of been more likely.
Don can pull off the lighthearted banter with other Marvel leads, I don't see Terrence doing that.
I think terrance would have been great. Terrance being the odd man out of an insane group of heroes and acknowledging how crazy everything is and getting dragged into mess would have been enjoyable. Someone actually being human. The closest member to a real human is steve but he's so self righteous that he is still far away from the average person. Terrance would have been like a 4th wall audience character. I remember watching Iron Man 1 when terrance found Tony in the desert and he said next time you ride with me. That was exactly what I was thinking.
We're talking about what if's, not confirmed fact
@@johnathanwill1945 I completely agree. The term you're thinking of is "audience surrogate"
How could you if he ain't in Marvel😶😶
@@johnathanwill1945 Agreed. Terrence was not given the chance to continue to play the character. He was the better actor.
I can't imagine the scene in Age of Ultron when Rhodes sees the Vision for the first time performed better than what Cheadle did. It's one of my favorite scenes 😂
Right
Ay mayne!..... Robot boy stole my kill Mayne! Who is this muthfukka! Yeah you right cheadle was better choice
I can
@@jimmyjam5453 👍
Rhodes saw vision (of course the character) for the first time: "Uuuuhh what??"
Love Terrance Howard, and was disappointed when he wasn’t coming back for Iron Man 2, but Don killed it so I was quickly over it, which is usually rare cases.
I find the theory that Terrence was let go because he was difficult to work with quite believable actually
you can clearly see from interviews he had a certain ego and stubbornness
not to mention the spectacle that is his saga in trying to prove 1X1=2
Wait is he actually trying to prove 1x1=2
@@ljspencer3 yeah I that was a weird saga of his
@@ljspencer3
yep, he is confidently and condescendingly ignorant
Everybody ive met named Terrence has a huge ego problem
I thought this was a joke, so I did some light searching to see if this was exaggerated or something.
If anything, it's worse. Not only does he think that 1x1=2, but he thinks the square root of 2 is 1.
Let's be honest. The movie was called Iron Man. This was Terrance Howard's ego getting the best of him. They were still going to offer him twice what RDJ took for the first movie and he was the leading role. Sometimes it's worth taking a short game loss for long-term gain. That's what Don Cheadle did. Howard's loss was Cheadle's gain.
Armored wars could have been Terrances...
Cheadlebeetle always wins
@@potatochipappi that's true. it still bugs me that he blamed RDJ for him not being in the sequel. feels a bit shameless
@@yutisima RDJ was NOT wanted by the studio for the lead role as he was unreliable, unprofessional and an uninsurable risk . Howard pushed for him as they were friends in real life and actually put his own money up to insure that RDJ would come to work and not flake out on production. It is a shame that when Howard needed RDJ to support him with contract negotiations that RDJ would only think of himself. There would be no RDJ Ironman without Terrence! I'm glad that RDJ could turn his life around and show his incredible acting skills, but it is such a shame that he is such a scumbag friend to Howard.
@@littlepeon i think, as the video said, that RDJ was on really thin ice with that one. Howard was the known and respected actor, not him. I imagine the fear to speak up knowing you're an ex drug addict turning your life around, but well, we'll never know what happened between the two
I really like Don Chaedle and find it a shame his role was diminished in Iron Man 2 due to the Terrance Howard dispute between Marvel and his Agency. I always wonder how the MCU would've played out if War Machine had retained his relevance in the whole of the Iron Man trilogy
Luckily for you War Machine will make a true comeback in the next couple years. In the upcoming “Armor Wars” show to be on Disney +. James Rhodes is set to be the main character
I doubt it would've been much differently. Instead of harping on what would seem like another Iron Suit variant, Marvel would naturally go the route of exploring the other Avenegers and not worrying too much about B tiered heros.
Hence why they can have so many Spider Man films across 2 phases of movies.
maybe thats why iron man 2 is not as good as the other 2,sudden change of script because of uncoorperative actor
@@sumarianprince why are you saying that to me? I’m not the one who brought up Don Cheadle. The first guy did. You should’ve brought your opinions to him, not me. No point in me seeing this
Don Cheadle is a fucking 😴 bore.
He ruined the character.
Hiring Don Cheadle, who was really seen in the behind the scenes as someone who geniuinely enjoys the character and being a support character for Iron Man, was the best move they could ever make.
The man basically owned the role because he understood the nature of the media he is working in. Howard on the other hand, felt like he had this "I'm the big star and I don't care if this movie fails" attitude to him.
That's was makes Rhodey perfect as a friend of Tony Starks. They're two badasses. It's literally in the script too; Rhodey isn't supposed to bend over backwards for Stark. He has his own mind and emotions, he gets in a fight with Tony Stark. He's Stark's friend and helps keep him in line at times. They disagree but also take advice from each other. That's what makes Rhodey's character compliment Tony Stark.
He's not supposed to be a freakin kid Robin who just follows Batman around.
Love it or hate it, the fact is that Terrence Howard's attitude more fittingly portrays Rhodey. Don was more easily an ignorable sidekick.
I don't want Rhodey to be ignorable. I don't want him to be a goddamn pushover. I don't get why you would think the characters shouldn't be portrayed properly. Anybody can like the character they're playing. Few match.
Don Cheadle's smarter in hindsight to Howard. He played the long game and took the lower entry pay for the big pay off at the end.
Honestly? It's about ego. Terrence Howard's ego works on Empire, because Lucius Lyon is a man of ego. James Rhodes is all about loyalty - and honestly, Don Cheadle exudes that more, and is a better fit.
This is likely why they canned Ed Norton after Hulk and gave the Bruce Banner role to Ruffalo. Actors with big egos + letting perfectionism get in the way of cooperativeness just don't make good choices for multiple future movies that share the same universe where collaboration makes or breaks this franchise.
@@thepaintingbanjo8894 that and Louis Letterier wasn't even allowed to direct a lot of post production. Norton kept getting in the way and kept taking over a lot of the times. I don't know about you, but I'm a major control freak. If I wasn't allowed to fully direct something every single way I'm envisioning because someone demands it to be *their* way, I wouldn't even want to dream about that person the rest of my life.
Wait a fucking a second is this a J Cole reference simultaneously
Proof? Do you have proof it's ego?
@@LuffyBlack did you not read anything they said
I feel like Terrence was mad that he was Iron Man's sidekick and not Iron Man himself. Tbh, Don's performance is way better imo
I always felt like Terrance and robert had better chemistry. They’re in each other’s faces trying to get their points across. Terrance is also hitting different vocal notes as he speaks, something that my theater teacher always told us to do or look out for when watching films. Don on the other hand doesn’t even look like he’s enjoying himself. He’s a capable actor, he’s just monotone and going through the motions. I really think that Fav’s take on Terrance ‘s performance has to do with Terrance not obeying the tone that Fav wanted to set. Robert and Terrance seem almost inseparable, like one is trying to outdo the other , which i found really entertaining, but also a far cry from the tone Marvel has set for its “characters first,” or character central movies. Marvel likes very distinguished characters and the tone has to be perfect to hit that mark, and Nothing Meta that the audience might notice like two actors trying to one up each other or Terrance trying to outdo robert I should say. That’s the only thing I can think of when they say he did a bad acting job.
@@VonJay i do agree that Terrence Howard is an amazing actor, but I think he would've never worked out for the mcu. Not because of his acting skills, but because of his attitude and inability to work with others. He wasn't a great team player and in a franchise like the mcu being a team player is important. But then again, Hollywood does have a problem with screwing actors over written contacts
Its not an interesting character, played by two uninteresting actors tbh
@@aldrichjosiah6495 no doubt. I don't see him getting along with everyone else. I Don't mean that in a bts way because I've never been on set with him. And idk how they told him to act but in my opinion, Donnie shined more whenever Terrance wasn't on scene. Donnie is a better actor in my opinion but it feels like the character had a one up on Tony while Don Cheadle's Rhody is too neutral to shift the tone.
@@helenomstreken7577 imo, most of the mcu characters and side characters especially aren't interesting. Not that the comic characters aren't, because they are, but the mcu formula leaves out plenty of literary devices, formidable villains and necessary risks to make these characters interesting. It's because marvel is following a three act, family friendly formula. They're also risk averse and keep things very very simple. However, I've found that the newest phase is taking a considerable risk as it's the most cinematic that I've ever seen the MCU. Well, the shows at least.
Don Cheadel to Terrence Howard: "Boom, you looking for this?"
showing the war machine role and the $40M
i can imagine Don Cheadel nodding and make the face lmao
underrated comment
😂
The Chead is the best. Love that guy. I'm honestly always excited when he pops up around the MCU (like his cameo in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier). Can't wait for him to take the leading man role in Disney+'s . He deserves it!
Yeah, I need a trailer for Armor Wars stat
I thought Terrence Howard played a good part in the first movie but I had absolutely no idea that Rhodes and Stark were supposed to be good friends. I know now they are supposed to have a turbulent friendship but Terrence Howard played it so straight that I was completely unaware they were friends at all, it just seemed like Rhodes knew Stark through work but didn't have a lot of time for him. Once Don Cheadle came in you could suddenly see the warmth and camaraderie between the two of them. I imagine it's similar to Eric Stoltz as Marty McFly - a hell of a good actor who's just not quite right for that particular role.
I feel the opposite way about rhodes actor'd
I also feel the exact opposite. Don felt totally distant and cold where as howard felt like a bro to tony
@@acekkkkkk Reading through all the comments it seems that people are split about 50/50 on the subject. Not many seem to say "both actors were great as Rhodes" it's either that Terrence was great and Don wasn't or exactly the opposite. Not many seem to be critical of the acting either, just whether or not each actor did a good job playing Rhodes. It's funny to read such strongly split opinions and the fact that most people have good reasons for their preference.
@@acekkkkkk howard felt very special idk why and don was introduced in a not so good movie that might be one of the reasons altought in age of ultron don started feeling like a bro to tony but i always hate it when they switch actors for the same character in a franchise it's always weird just like how they changed the hulk's actor
Yeah i was kinda confused as a kid on why this random air force guy was following Tony around. I legit thought he was trying to get dirt on Tony then ended up becoming friends cause he got a medal at the end. I watched this movie a lot as a kid too, his performance just sucked that much.
Don Cheadle has more best friend chemistry with RDJ than Terrance.
I've honestly always felt the opposite. I never bought their friendship after the recast.
Quite the opposite, as another user has stated, RDJ and Terrance felt like they were at each other's faces trying to outdo the other which perfectly fit the dynamic of Tony and Rhodey being best friends and somewhat rivals, at least in the solo films, of course there was no point in building upon that dynamic any further when the future of the character was to be largely sidelined and his role in the overarching story minimized.
Yeah I've always felt it weird that people couldn't differentiate who was the better War machine/Rhodes, although it's subjective but definitively Terrence and Robert in only one movie had a more believable brotherly and equal friendship while Don cheadle is quite frankly childish little brother type in all the movies. And acting wise Terrence is better but I guess as a minor role it really doesn't justify the pay rate there i said it.
tbh I don't really like either of them
@@Peypug “some men just want to see the world burn” 😂
This makes me wonder, how much better of a deal was Cheadle? He had a fairly impressive resume at the time too, but maybe he was more down to earth about what the role was going to be/worth in salary.
And of course just a better fit for the character (as someone not at all familiar with War Machine outside of the MCU). So I definitely didn't mind it.
I sometimes wonder how Norton would have done in the team up movies. Probably not as lighthearted as Ruffalo has been. Less fun to have on set too, I imagine.
As a person to be around for 12 hours a day, ill take Ruffalo every fucking day of the week. Both good actors, but as personalities go -- Ruffalo hands down
Ruffalo in Eternal Sunshine is basically young MCU Banner
I think Norton is the better actor (although maybe not the best choice for hulk), but Ruffalo is definitely rumored to be less of an ass hole on set.
@@birdiec I agree Norton likes to control the script
From what I can tell, Cheadle is far more professional. He doesn't strike me as someone who would do what Howard has.
00:12 Get out button
Thank you
@@itsjustsilver8172Get Out! 😂
Howard was still offered the role, just at a massive pay cut. That means someone (Favreau and other management level people) didn't want him to reprise his role. All he had to do was just take the pay cut and he'd still be War Machine, that was his choice. Don Cheadle likely will forever be grateful to Howard for turning it down. Besides, who doesn't like Donny Cheadle!!
gonna be honest Terrance was pretty bland in Ironman one, from all i've seen he really didnt deserve the pay he got for the first movie. Re-watching the first movie there were times i thought Terrance was just a random soldier with a couple speaking lines. Don Cheadle on the other hand put so much effort and personality into the character, actually felt like he knew tony stark in the movie and not just "hey best friend i haven't seen in 20 years" type shit
@@maiyapride8457 Couldn't agree more, just commenting about all the crying he did as a result of loosing the role. Love Cheadle, he's perfect as his best bud.
@@maiyapride8457 Its true, but that was also because of writing. Don Cheadle already become War Machine. Its big difference, thats why you think he put more in character because he played full character Rhodes and War Machine. While in Iron Man 1 it was just beginning of Rhodes, who is not yet War Machine best part of character. And Iron Man 1 main focus was his origin story that also had impact on weak perfoamcne of Rhodes, while in second it was more about Rhodes and other things not just Iron Man
Ummm...thanks? That's exactly what was said in the video.
I don't like don Cheadle
I’m disappointed that you didn’t mention ike pearlmutter marvels ceo at the time. The guy was pulling all the strings at that time and had a huge part on not paying Terrence
Was he the same guy that said audiences wouldn't know the difference?
@@SlashManEXE
That sounds perfectly in character for him. Perly is the reason Black Widow and Black Panther were not Phase 2 movies, and whiy Iron Man 3 was heavily rewritten to get rid of the originally female main villain.
@@Carabas72 he's also the one responsible for the X-Men and the fantastic four disappearing from media for a while
@@SlashManEXE yep. and the reason marvel TV was so shit for a while. and the reason that an inhumans movie was almost pushed out. and the reason that the x-men were basically killed and replaced with inhumans in the comics. and the reason the inhumans tv show was run on a shoe string budget. he REALLY wanted the inhumans to replace the x-men because he hated that fox was making money off a marvel property. oh yeah! and the reason why we never got a black widow movie until now! or why there weren't that many black widow toys! because boys won't buy girl action figures.
hes a trash person and i'm glad they pushed him out. hopefully hell lose all power within marvel altogether, and we can get some actually good marvel cartoons again.
@@Morlock19
He is, of course, also the guy that was responsible for pretty much permanently selling off all those movie rights to Spider-Man, X-Men etcetera in the first place.
And one of the very few people who have both the ability and the stomach to be friends with Donald Trump.
Could you do a video about how Chris Evans got a second chance to star in another Marvel film.
I feel like that ones not much of a mystery. Fantastic four was so bad there’s still marvel fans who don’t know he was even in it lol
@@procrastinator547 probably true. I have seen those movies and when I compare his acting, you can just see how much more comfortable he is as Steve Rogers when compared to Johnny Storm.
I don’t care what you guys say about Fantastic Four (2005) I love it, it’s so underrated.
@@kyliethelittlespider-mangirl94 I agree. Johnny Storm was actually a very funny character.
In fact the 2015 Fanstastic 4 was so bad that... It shouldn't have been made.
If anything, Michael B. Jordan was given a second chance in Black Panther.
I wouldn't really call it a second chance for Chris Evans or Michael B Jordan. I think Chris Evans was hilarious in the original. And I'd say Michael B Jordan wasn't a bad actor in the reboot it was just horrible writing
0:34 that must have been a slap in the face for Terrence Howard and the people who wanted to see him in iron man 2
Remember Endgame?
Neb: **after removing the orb**
"I wasn't always like this..."
Rod: "Yeah, me neither..."
[**Flashback**]
🤣
exactly. And then there was "excuse me new girl" and "scarlet, part of me doesn't even want to know" or something like that. He delivered some great lines.
best comment so far... XD
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Lmao I was confused with this comment, but I get it now. Just in case anyone else got confused:
Neb = Nebula
Orb = Power Stone container
Rod = Rhodey
This takes place when rhodey and nebula went to Morag then Nebula reaches her hand to get the orb, which causes her hand to melt
I'd love to see Terrance and Norton cameo in LOKI.
I rather see Tobey Maguire
That will probably be in no way home
They would never want to come back lol
@@gomichow Multiple Spider-Mans trading quips with multiple Lokis would be fun to see.
Only if they are willing to pay 8 million dollars for a cameo
You know, technically, Terrence was never war machine. Don Cheadle became war machine. Terrence was simply Lt. Colonel Rhodes.
Yes , I was gonna point that out as well.
Thats a reach come on, you and everyone else knew who he was
You mean the same guy that war machine is just stop
@@crosswiz6 Even though everyone knew who he was supposed to be, Terrence was never given the chance to be War Machine on screen.
God Don Cheadle sucks
Terrance Howard has had so many chances to “break out” and make tons of money but he sabotages himself repeatedly. Don Cheadle is a working actor and a professional so is it better to have a “artist” or someone who understands this is a team effort and plays well with others? I think Marvel made a great choice.
I was annoyed with my suspension of disbelief being tainted...until Don said "it's me I'm here deal with it." Now that's how you intro a recast.
3 different Hulks
2 different Rhodes
2 different Fantastic 4 families and Dr. Dooms
4 different Spider Man/Men
2 different Quick Silvers...
We've been watching the multiverse of madness all along!! 😳 😜😆😆
**shocked Pikachu face**
4 spider mans????🤨
@@anti9306 yes bro only 3 yet I was shocked
I think he might said miles morales
New fantastic 4 and a new blade are on the way.
When is the 2nd T'Chala..?
The line "It's me. I'm here. Deal with it." is most likely a meta way of telling the audience to not stress about it. At least that's what I think.
EDIT: Thanks for the likes!
I agree. It's the impression I got when I saw it for the first time.
Most likely, it sounded way too unnatural to be unintentional
Maybe it was also targeted at Howard himself as in "yeah now this guy is in your spot, that's life" which make it extra meta and kinda spicy lol.
@@sunbleachedangel True
@@piccoloatburgerking Huh, that makes sense too.
I actually really liked Terrence‘s performance, the slightly friendly but still professional persona was not seen again by war machine and for me made it a struggle to like wall machine in the future
This is pretty spot on imho. I thought that Terrence Howard's performance was pretty lackluster in Ironman. I was pretty pleased when he was replaced with Don Cheadle. It's hard to explain, but every time Howard tried to give his lines in a military setting, it felt so out of place; it almost felt like Howard was playing DJay (his Hustle & Flow character) as if he had gone into the military instead of pimping/rapping. Meanwhile, Cheadle nailed the part of a career military officer balancing a friendship with someone like Stark.
Side Note: I had no idea RDJ was only paid $500,000 for the first Iron Man. I know he was on the career rebound, but wow.
Essentially RDJ had to accept that the studio saw him as a liability. He was humble about this and wanted to work. Sounds like Terrence Howard wanted to be recognized as a draw but wasn't putting in the work.
I was aware about the financial disagreement and that was why he walked away and really, I understand his perspective and why he did what he did. What I didn't know is that he has been publicly stating things about the franchise haha.
To be fair, everyone in the industry who's unlikely to get a phonecall from Kevin Feige eventually bashs Marvel Movies. As James Gunn has implied. It's a great way to essentially promote whatever project you're working on that's not getting the attention you think it deserves while telling everyone that you're a SERIOUS ARTIST.
@@BHRamsay Oh, what did James Gunn implied? I’m not really updated with what happened behind the scene so I’m curious.
@@BHRamsay lol u sound like a fan boy
marvel movies are great fun but they don’t go outside the boundary
And not all actors want to be in that part of the movie.
And honestly there are so many actors in Hollywood but really how many ppl bash marvel
@@dandansfu
What does don't go outside the boundary means? Pardon my ignorance
@@daemonace5910 they all have to follow Disney set of guidelines/rules
Don’t get me wrong. They are fun to watch and they do take their time and effort to keep setting things up and they select great cast with great chemistry that carry the movies but in terms of story , depth , they are very Disney
Nothing wrong with that but for some actors they may want to do something more “non mainstream “ for lack of better words
That’s why while they are popular , ppl even Mcu fans still choose dark knight as greater super hero movies
I'm biased towards Don because he speaks fluent Cantonese.
And that he also learned kungfu from master Freddie Ching
@@imm0rt544 They're brothers lol
@@shadowaitherios6172 I hope that he still have his restaurant.
@@imm0rt544 that is a fcking good reference.
@@shadowaitherios6172 😂 beat me too it
dude rdj is literally the perfect casting for tony stark, like both are someone that has struggled with addiction and with substance abuse, i wish we had gotten to see more of that in the movies
I like how Terrence claims he is the one that recommended RDJ to play as Iron Man but it was actually Stan Lee that requested him. Sounds to me like he's bitter over the success of the MCU so he says something like that to show some sort of involvement.
Honestly yes, if you blame Iron Man for ruining your career, that's a sure sign. If the movie went total bust then sure, but the first movie was a hit, and then his career fizzled out because of his own decisions.
Ikr dudes ego has blinded him
@@Sock-Puppet lol pure copium, simple as that.
It's basically a story of a man who's playing a supporting character who expects to be paid and treated like a main character.
@@fbi855 alright agent coulson, back to work
With all due respect to Terrance Howard, I'm somewhat with Jon Favreau- I know he was just a side character, but he didn't really do much with the role. He seemed very monotone and uncaring.
Don Cheadle was a great replacement, and even if he isn't spectacular all the time, his role generally is well done. Not nearly as bored/uncaring, at least in my opinion
I feel like the monotone acting was just the aesthetic of the time for movies. Marvel completely changed the pop culture of the movie industry with their movies and how they did them.
I like Don more cheerful and funny persona than Terrance, too. However, the comic version of War Machine is really the always serious, no fun military dude archetype. Which kinda fit terrance more. However, i also don't think that the movies need an comic accurate WM either. I like think to be more fun and less serious
@@dieptrieu6564 Don cheedle was more impactful with the character in his first appearance than howard was with his. Also, he is much more cheerful. there was already enough to not be cheerful about with the one guys death in the cave we certainly didn't need more of the sadness.
@@arthurpendragon8192 Uh? Did you read my comment? I was saying exactly this?
The script he was working with was a monotone and uncaring character, in Iron Man 1 he was there as a military attache to pull Tony Stark in line.
Don Cheedle was given a more comic relief.
Thats down to the writers not the actors
I can understand Terrence's perspective. He was friends with Robert D Junior. He pushed for him and then they dropped his pay and cut his part. Terrence is a great actor and he is more charismatic as an actor. But Don... I think he fits the image of Rhode better. He seems like more of a stoic soldier.
Terrence was his friend and took 8M while RDJ took 500K, dude was on screen for a few minutes. That's not a friend, that was his business decision.
@@nobytes2 they didn't want Robert at all though. Terrence recomended him.
In the second film the money was the other way around.
@@kellharris2491 Because Downey was the real actor, the main gold bar. Terence was the silver bar. They already paid him 8 mil for his supportive role and for RDJ recommendation even tho they didnt want him, they just stuck with RDJ cause he was cheap. And then by Ironman 2 since RDJ is coming back and was the gold bar in the 1st movie they decided RDJ would get the bigger pay considering he lifted the 1st movie with 500k. Terence should have just taken the 1 mil. Its better than nothing
@@braincell4536 if you're pay went from 8 mil to 1 mil you would be pissed too.
@@braincell4536 another reason is, sometimes, not all sequel get positive things, lot of sequel getting flop too. Imagine you pay terrence for 8 millions, and rdj for 10 millions, then the movie ia going flop? Terrence should wait to see if second movies is going well, not just drop it
Important to note that the director cut down his scenes.
The relationship of characters is acted out in small gestures throughout the film. If you reduce the number of scenes they are in pre-shoot, they have to give a more concentrated performance, become more of an archetype of themselves - hence "supporting role".
If you do that post shoot... You simply water down the performance.
Honestly, it's crazy to suggest that Howard's performance was the problem, when our only metric of judging that is by taking the word of Favreau, who himself edited Howard out of the movie. Important to note - Favreau's taste in movies is a subject of debate (Jungle book, Lion king, Cowboys vs Aliens? Etc...).
It's very much possible that War Machine had was a co-lead in the original movie, and it was Favreau's personal bias that completely changed the tone of the movie. Studios don't pay 4 million for an actor they don't plan on using.
Cost cutting for supportive role.
That counter offer literally came on the day Terrance was at his mother's funeral. THEY NEVER WANTED HIM BACK.
cause he sucked at being brody, best decision ever made... paid less money ... got a better actor
@@serumbae7879 He was considerably better imo. Not that Don Cheadle is bad, he was just directed to be the standard forgettable sidekick. Terence had presence in Iron Man 1.
@@serumbae7879 HE HAD A signed contract YOU FOOL. How would you like to have a signed contract and then get a counter offer that you never received because you were at your mother's funeral and your replacement hired in 24 hours.
@@jorgepereira2950 I disagree
@@jorgepereira2950 Not true
To be real honest, in my opinion it was a noticeable difference when Howard was replaced. I like Cheadle just fine, but I really thought Howard nailed it. He had amazing chemistry with RDJ and he just had a better comedic feel. He would have made Rhody a better character. Imo.
The chemistry with RDJ makes sense since they are (or were) actually friends in real life, and in general the natural method acting of the first Iron Man - at least between those two - is probably what made it so good.
I disagree and since this is the internet and i disagree with you, you are now everything phobic
I did feel that Don came off as a tad too dry, cold and uncaring in Iron Man 2. But I eventually warmed up to him in future movies in the MCU.
I hated Terrance howard
@NI GGER you can't say that to him, thats sexist
I like the fact it's never mentioned in the films that Rhody stealing the Warmachine armour was ALLOWED by Stark.
It would've been easy for Stark to switch off the Warmachine armour, but he obviously chooses to let Rhody take the armour. And he never makes it known that he let him take it because that's how cool Stark is.
The way that scene and a few others were presented, I am pretty sure that armor was literally made for him. Stark is a bro like that.
Nick Fury brings it up when he and Tony are talking in Iron Man 2.
Fury: "Lil brother walked in there, kicked yo ass, and took your suit! Is that possible?"
He has Natasha confirm that there are security bypasses that prevent unauthorized entry, which basically means Tony let him take the suit.
I was fortunate enough to be on the set of the first 2 movies, and after the first one it was weird seeing Cheadle play the role. TH was perhaps the coolest guy on set. Very nice to all of the servicemen and women, I included. Talked with the guy for a solid 10 minutes about the industry, and trying to figure out what to do when they were done for the day. He was in disbelief when he had no real place to go to off of base outside of driving all the way back to LA for a night-life scene.
GP was ...... as unpleasant as the stories about her. Truly!
RD Jr. was super in the role. Method acting I believe.
I just know that at the time of the first movie TH was coming off of being nominated for the Oscar and he got paid a great fee for Iron Man. If I"m not mistaken he was paid the most for the first flick because of that. If that is the case, the rest of what I believe to be true would make sense. IM2 was supposed to really bring in the War Machine and at the current pay rate of TH, he wanted even more for a sequel that actually was going to be focused on him far more. There is no way a supporting actor should make more than the lead in 2 movies with half of the screen time.
Especially when the man that is on screen as Iron Man also has an Oscar under his belt. TH priced himself out of the role. Cheadle was a great pick up for less bucks.
We now have variants and the multiverse.
Terrence could easily come back as War Machine from another timeline.
Won't happen, but it's cool to think about.
Doesn't make sense. So Rhodey was swapped somehow got another Rhodey in another universe?
@@reagle9315 from another universe, it'll be two Rhodeys in one place and when it comes to multiverse, that's a possibility
@@24Ippo I agree with Jonathan. Did Iron Man 1 take place in an entirely different universe from the rest of the MCU?
@@DoctorPhileasFragg it's more complicated, if we consider the MCU as the main timeline (which we the viewers consider it as it is) then it would be like the same scene but different characters and not far from the main timeline.
The next movie of Spider-man will explain the concept of the multiverse but you can watch Loki (series) for more info.
PS: My guess is that they're going to explain this particular scene at some point.
@@24Ippo Oh so now it's timelines instead of universes?
I liked Terrence Howard in the first Iron Man. I would even say that I was disappointed in Cheadle's performance in Iron Man 2 vs Howard's in the first movie. (Maybe that was because it was a pared down role though. I certainly enjoyed Cheadle's work in subsequent movies.) That said, I can't bring myself to feel bad for Old Baby Wipes Howard not getting that Marvel money.
Sorry old baby wipes Howard?? Wtf☠️☠️
Yeah can you explain the baby wipes thing? Like cry baby? I mostly agree with what you said though.
@@rodjjt7742 If you expand the comments under my original one, there should already be an explanation to somebody else.
What stands out to me is how few actors were changed in the MCU. Those movies are running for almost 15 years now, so I would expect more actors to be forced to leave the project in such a long time. I also think that we as viewers are somewhat spoiled by that not recasting characters if the actor left policy. Look at Superman or Batman - they were forced to recast the character and it was fine (except for the movies that weren't, but those were bad because the werebad, not because of the recasting) It is just us viewers who make such a big fuzz about recasting roles and stuff.
eh, the superman and batmans movies don't exist at the same universe. it's normal for the actors to change because the movies are reboots, not sequels.
Lol flash is getting replaced
@@huhjanus Except for _Superman Returns,_ which is meant to be a continuation of the first two Christopher Reeve films. Brandon Routh was specifically cast for his resemblance to Reeve.
@@Okusar so you found a single example that proves a statement about the general recasting of superhero movies
Nobody wants roles recast in a franchise, it breaks the immersion.
When I originally heard that his pay was cut to a million if he wanted to appear in Iron Man 2 I took his side considering how much more of a role the character played after the first film. I didn't know that had he accepted he was actually going to have a much smaller role than in the original. So in the end I'm glad he was replaced.
its the studio fault. they should of never promised terrance more money than the main actor
To be fair, RDJ was relatively unknown at that time and they didn't want to pay him too much in case it flopped.
@Jordan Vance One might say major risk is an understatement
I forget what movie it was, but RDJ and Winona Ryder were cast in the same movie and the insurance company for the production said the studio couldn't use both of them because they were seen as uninsurable.
I swiped it
Uber qualified
Simple.
Terrence's Ego and his short-sighted agent killed his career and cost him tens of millions of dollars in the long run.
yeah, instead of taking criticisms and acting classes and trying to do better, He instead bitch up, Oh well his replacement is better in my opinion.
Thank you
Yep, he should have taken the million, try to improve, and then make the big bucks later on like everyone else did.
I never liked Terrance. He's such an ego trip
I actually think he made the correct business decision at the time. He could’ve have made more working on other movies (each movie can take several years of work). Your criticism is somewhat fair considering he wasn’t able to act very successfully in other roles since, but he had no way of knowing what the MCU would become. Odds were that it would end after 2 or 3 more movies like most other superhero movie series before. I mean the Hulk movie right before was ended after 1 movie and that was originally intended to be in the MCU. Hindsight is 20 20, so it is obvious now he should’ve stuck around and even he regrets it.
I really liked Terrence Howard. He was cool and funny. But Don Also does a Spectacular Job but still it would have been amazing if Howard was still War Machine.
PICK A SIDE!!
3:40 John Favreau was ultimately "UNhappy" with Terrence Howards performance🤣🤣
The fact that I couldn't care less about the answer to this question is probably indicative of why he wasn't brought back
I thought this was the one thing everyone did know why he got fired for.
I had no idea since i don't follow much news like this much less the actors lives do it was some nice info
about half way through the video, but I thought it was over pay increase demand that he got replaced.
I had no idea he was publicly bashing Marvel
He wasn't fired, he rejected the role
@@pats3212 technically true.
Imagine the MCU if Terrence Howard and Edward Norton were still there
It would be perfect. Their replacements have done really well with the roles, but I wish they could have stayed.
@@Ethan-Entah the replacements are better in every way
I got bored of Edward Norton, but maybe it was the film, the hulk movie its not really great at all
Bro i see this guy every where
@@theperians Rayman for Smash!
Reason being nobody remembered terraces performance as war machine in iron man 1 but everyone remembers don, when I saw iron man 1 a bit ago I forgot he was supposed to be rowdy he fit more like a background character easy to forget about
There’s nobody other than Cheadle I could imagine doing the “Yeah he’s a king” “what are you doing” scene.
And "Boom. Looking for this?"
"Why couldn't we just find a baby Thanos and... *do rope-neck suicide gesture*..."
In the end Howard IS a great actor, maybe even better than Cheadle BUT he wasn't the best Rhodey. The tone of the MCU isn't his strengths. I think there's something in saying it did kind of kill his career, as a superstar, as a name to bring in an audience but I think he still has a pick of great projects.
I just wrote something similar. I actually like Terrance way better in that role but I understand that what he was going for wasn’t what Fav wanted. I absolutely love the chemistry between Terrance and Rob, abs I think that Don is really boring but that’s exactly what Robert needs for the tone to be right. I’m not a fan of Marvel at all, I enjoyed a few of their films, not a fan of the character central focus but I respect their ability to create the tone necessary for huge success. And Terrance would have ruined it. I can’t see him taking a back seat to any of the other actors in an avengers film for instance.
@@VonJay which is the POINT I think. Howard would *never* have let his character sit in the back. War Machine would have had more relevance, a bigger following, bc he'd ask for more lines, scenes etc
@@VonJay further, T's got an ego to match Robert's. And Marvel fans fawn over that.🤷🏾♀️
@@achieachie911 I absolutely love the exchange between them two. I think marvel fans would love it and he would be a more interesting war machine imo. The suit feels so empty with Cheadle in it.
when your a black man in a whiteMALE DOMINATED industry you got to be careful PERIOD.
white men dont like seeing confident black men it makes them very insecure, hence why they love
blacks who put up with they ish.
I've dealt with a lot of different soldiers in my life and Howard honestly fit that role more than Cheadle did, but I totally understand why the studio cut him, based on the video and the issues Ive heard/read of in the past with Howard's or his agent.
Looking at that time period, when the studio knew they had a road of 10 years of movies down the road for them and these characters, it must have been a huge red flag to see this guy arguing for more money right before the second movie. I bet that they figured this would be a constant renegotiation after every success and frankly was more headache than he was worth. Heck, they were paying the sidekick way more than the leading actor for goodness sakes.
Yes, Howard also seemed more appropriate for me as a stoic soldier type than Cheadle,
but it seems after the first movie's success, Disney Execs ultimately concluded him Howard to be a financial liability. Personally, I don't buy that Howards performance wasn't up to par; cutting him was just a financial ploy to save $$$. Even today War Machine still remains one of the more replaceable characters in the franchise.
It's likely Disney told RDJ some plans after the 1st movie but purposefully didn't communicate this to Howard's agent. The agent would be doing their traditional job in refusing the $1 mil to secure the most $$$ for an 'in-demand star' instead of having the foresight of the juggernaut franchise. But really, who knew at that point.
But the side Howard seems to be coming from is how RDJ didn't speak up for him like how Howard stuck up for RDJ. By this, RDJ played his hand very well, but in doing was a really very lousy friend to Howard. He saw a way forward for himself, but at the expense of a friendship. But this is open to however one sees the values/morals/business in this area.
In hindsight, of course Howard and his agents should have taken the 1$ million as a short-term loss, but again, who knew what the mcu would become, and plans likely weren't communicated to Howard and co., and Disney tactically saw a way to cut him and move forward.
Ultimately, I guess Howard is still War Machine in another universe. :P
He didn’t have a plan like that at the time tho. The ten year plan didn’t start until the success of Iron Man 2. And, I to this day can’t tell why they disliked Howard’s performance so much, I think that other than RDJ, he had the best scenes, and most enjoyable performance. He was a genuine pleasure on screen as Rhodes.
@@nahboi483 do you have a citation showing that we didnt have a plan for infinity war? I have heard the opposite here in the offices.
@@fosterkmas I doubt we will really ever know the truth on that one. I think thats a story RDJ will most likely take with him to the grave.
@@hectorcornejo1468 Take a look at the link I gave Nah Boi. Answers some earlier phase projections for the movies, and while I've read before that infinity war wasn't planned so early, I cannot provide a link for that.
And yes, agreed, when all is said and done, the Howard recasting is really just speculation, and I doubt after all this time we'll never really know what really happened.
Shame, but eh, that's Hollywood business.
1:18 wow it's two of my favorite joker together
Admittedly theres only one we don’t really like
never really thought cheadle quite nailed the role, always thought it was a shame terrence didnt stay on board...but what do I know ive never produced a hit movie, let alone a string of them.
You will one day. 👍🏻
its also hard because their rhodeys are different imo. which is cool that don cheadle didnt try to the same thing but made the role his own. makes it hard to compare tho lol
Don Cheadle still makes me think of volcano every time he talks. He's only matched by Ryan Reynolds for his sh!t flinging. It's amazing.
I never saw a problem with his performance & I actually enjoyed his
probably cus his shit performances was cut.
I think Terrance Howard gives off more of a commanding presence than Don Cheadle.
Even though it hurts to have your expected earnings cut to 1/8, it's mean to go after people for things they didn't do.
But yeah, acting is a lot trickier than we usually think it is.
I would of still did ky best cuz 1 million is better than 1 dollar we normal ppl working living paycheck to paycheck n that 1 million is what we as normal ppl dream to have
I think the biggest issue with Terrence was his hiring contract:
the contract for the first film already covered the sequence, this is very common, to sign and agree with the salary for the next movies, if and when they were to be released, in the contract usually the studio is only obligated to hire with the defined salary if the sequel would be made, which protect the studio if the project fails. These contract are used to ensure the salary of the actors do not deviate and go thru the roof once the franchise is very successful, it is very common for those franchise to sign a contract for 3 movies at least, Chris Evans for example mention several times that he was very reluctant to sign and was convinced by Downey Jr. because he didnt' want to be contractually tied for 10 years.
Now back to Terrence contract: according to him, his contract already covered the shooting of the sequence for the same salary, and when disney get back offering less, it should be a violation of his contract. Only then Howard found out that the contract only obligated him to participate in the movie for that value if Disney wanted to pay it, but Disney was not obligated to honor that value if it choose not to do it. this was a low blow, he felt tricked by the legal nuances, which really puts him in a hard spot.
Accepting this change not only set precedence to receive less in future projects but also set a precedence to the studio to continue this kind of contractual exploit with him and other actors (something that lawers disney seem to be experts)
Sound like wht happen to Johansson in black widow movie or am i wrong in this ?
What an insightful post - more people should read this.
@@uthopia27 I wouldn't say it is the same thing that happened to Johansson, at first I would think that it fits in the same category of "predatory legality" where the contract is followed by the letter regardless of what each party expected when they sign the contract, but the aftermath of the case points to a more civilized disagreement because Disney and Johansson are still working together after the settlement and both parties said were happy with the new agreement
While Terrence case seems more a douche move from Disney, Johansson case seem something that no one could anticipate: the pandemic and its consequence in the film industry.
Black Widow was release in the middle of this culture shift where different interests collide while the status quo and power structures were changing and uncertain.
The Scenario
So, the first thing to be notice is that Black Widow contract was signed before the pandemic. and the contract included a percentage of the profits of the theater’s ticket, this is something big names (actors and actress) can do, since their names are associates with big sell, people go out to see them, but can also be benefit the studio by tying the salary of the actor with the success of the movie.
So, at least in the past, big movies like this one could take 4-6 months to be available in other medias, which is a big incentive to go to the theaters.
Is also worth mentioning that the studio and the movie theater owner’s usually split the profit 50-50 and there is a well establish process to count those sells with transparency (since it is the best interested at both parties). On the other hand, the streaming service currently have no obligation to disclaim their “movie views count” or rentals for individual movies, this is usually disclaimed to the investors as a sign of transparency (this information will be important).
So, at the time of the contract Johansson expectation was, like any other movie at that time, to be solely released in theaters. but delays occurred, the movie was rescheduled more than once and along came the pandemic, people were not going to the theater, so Disney decided to release the movie on the theaters and Disney Plus streaming service at the same time.
So Black Widow was release simultaneously on stream and theaters without any revision on the original contract, but Disney would not continue to do that in future movies due to pressure from the industry (Apparently the theaters have a lot of political power), and the next big marvel movie (Shang Shi) was not released on Disney plus at the same time. Nowadays it takes 3 months for the movie to be available on the streaming service of origin, which seem to be something that the industry is ok with that.
All that scenario made a lot of 3rd parties interested in the Johansson vs Disney battle because it could set a lot of precedence, specially on how actors get their compensation.
There Is no question that having different alternatives to watch the movie will impact the theater ticket sells, especially during the pandemic. For Disney, releasing the movie in streaming means not only avoid the split of the profit with the movie theater but also promote their streaming service: people have to install the app in their equipment and use the app, which is part of the effort to get users invested in subscribe to their plan.
a while after the movie was released, Disney surprised the industry revealing the revenue from Disney+ premier access of Black Widow: 60 million in the first 20 days, this was new to the industry which usually don’t disclaim Video on Demand numbers, only theater and Box office numbers. But the general believe is that they didn’t want to look bad with the fact that the movie did not pass the marker of U$100m of the first weekend in theaters (it got to U$80m)
The Lawsuit and allegations
Johansson allegation is that her earnings were cut due to unilateral decisions from Disney, and said she tried to disccus the contract with the studio after finding out about the simultaneous release, but Disney were never open for discussion, if I am not mistaken Kevin Feig and/or other involved people were trying to setup meetings but there seem to be no dialog, as you can notice in the scenario there were additional motives for more people to incentive that discussion.
Disney allegation was that the contract with the actress already considered compensation for the digital distribution, also for Disney this was more than a negotiation with Johansson it could basically define future contracts of the company and maybe in the industry.
In my humble opinion Disney wanted to take this into court, I am not sure about the specifics of the law in US, but where I live (Brazil) if they make an off-court agreement there is still risky for the party to go to court if, for example, Johansson no longer think the negotiation was fair. And for the lawyer’s perspective, just the fact that Disney would be willing to negotiate the contract could look like they consider the currently contract is unfair and needs revision, giving more ammunition to Johansson case.
The result of the agreement is confidential, but the dispute made Disney reveal that the movie made more than $125million from online revenue.
Copy/pasted - bumping this comment. This is the true reason
This is the kind of comment I like
I actually like Terrence’s appeal as war machine compared to Don’s…
..but what was the performance like for all the material they cut?..if all that was usable was in the film, then it probably isn't worth the millions he got paid...
@@iainansell5930 he performed well imo…
@@Jaycelestra maybe, but did his screen time warrant such a large pay packet? And how much would he expect that to increase as time went on? Marvel got rid of him before he became irreplaceable and far too expensive...
Yep Terence definitely had more chemistry with Robert.. like they were really buddies off cam.. Don and Robert kinda feels forced
@@iainansell5930 his credentials’demanded’ his paycheck for the role… i just thought Terrence looks more superhero than Don… just my opinion 😊
The reason you don't really notice how bad Terrence Howard was is that Favreau used the best parts he could get out of him for the way they wanted the role to be played.
We don’t know that tbh unless you have seen those deleted scenes
what? how? in my memory of watching whole ironman movies, first time war machine introduced to the series was played by Don Cheadle. i don't even remember when war machine played by another actor.
All jokes aside, I feel like that was just not a good role for Terrence. And no matter his performance, he was just not fit for the direction the movies were taking.
I thought that it was purely because of Howard's and RDJ's egos clashing. This gave much more of a perspective I should've looked more upon. Great video!
I can definitely see it playing a part though, Cheadle & RDJ have good on screen chemistry, they’re actual friends, which Howard & RDJ aren’t so that mismatch might be part of what led to his scenes being cut back for “bad performance”.
Frankly, Howard bringing up RDJ always felt like him being petty. He acts like RDJ had any negotiating power at the time. _Now_ he does, sure, but at the time he was a liability that had only just then proved _his_ own worth. He had no power to vouch for other actors and as soon as he did have that power he actually DID negotiate for higher salaries for the rest of the Avengers cast.
The fact that someone had to point out to me that they replaced the actor playing War Machine in the subsequent movies probably says all you need to know about the impact the first actor had on the first Iron Man movie. He was - certainly in the edit as I know the film - a completely interchangeable secondary character. I honestly had to go back to the first movie to check they were not the same guy.
The fact that you had to take a second look probably says more about you than the movie. I mean how many black actors are there in Hollywood?
@@aabbdec1 Hundreds? Thousands? I don't see your point. The fact that he's black is completely immaterial.
I could definitely see a difference and it weirded me out
@@aabbdec1
You guys truly excel at finding racism in literally every situation.
@@newtfigton8795 Nah, they look literally nothing alike. Mark Brown makes a fair comment, I have no idea how you could not see Iron Man 2 and go 'Oh, they replaced War Machine'.
Nobody said 'racism' except you complaining, which probably says more about you 🙂
Robert Downey Jr was perfect casting. Addictions and all, kind of mirrored his real life a bit.
I like Terrance Howard and I didn't mind him as Rhodey in the first Iron Man. And his situation absolutely sucks, if he was screwed out of the role as he claims. That said...I honestly think Don Cheadle suits the role far more than Howard did. The means by which Cheadle got the role is messy, but it worked out in the end.
I mean, I enjoyed Cheadle’s performances as War Machine WAY more than Howard’s
"The director John favreau was ultimately un-happy" LMAO
and here I was thinking he was Happy throughout the whole movie :P
I'd really like to see someone do a deep fake and add Howard in scenes from all of the Avengers film as War Machine.
I didn’t realize at first that Terrance Howard and Don Cheadle were playing the same character. First time I saw Iron Man, I couldn’t stand James Rhodes. He had one expression and there was no emotional connection. Don Cheadle played the character so differently, so much better, that it never clicked that it was the same guy (I’m terrible with names and still had to look up Rhodes’ name to make sure I had it right, and I am unfamiliar with the Iron Man comics). Nevermind budget, it was a better artistic move. Had Howard still be playing the role when Vision shot down War Machine, I’ve have been rooting for the character to die.
felt the same. When i rewatched the iron man series, I had completely forgotten that Terrance was Rhodes
really should never judge a book by its cover, RDJ was grateful for his 500k while the prima donna was butt hurt he was only getting double what the leading STAR got on the previous movie - to do a MINOR role, I know theres war machine fan girls here but hes not that important to really any part of the story - other than a really cool bro shake - like if were drawing straws here, the friendship between captain and RDJ was way more present than a supposed "lifetime" of friendship with howard - "least they got drunk together that one time on that plane for all of a 15 second clip." - meanwhile hes about to break down crying in a fight against his parents murderer and his actual bestfriend - thats how you EARN (key word here) a 8 million dollar pay check - fuck this oscar coasting prissy ego little baby.
Howard thinks 1x1 equals 2 and thinks all the mathematicians, scientists, and teachers are wrong.
I have a suspicion that it wasn’t the performance that Jon was unhappy about but an uncontrollable ego on set.
@Chi right? It sounds like an idiom for idiot, but nope, he’s spent a lot of his energy and time “proving” it.
@@allenrodgers1577 wow you ain't joking either - and neither was he lol
god, this man is 53 years old and he said that shit - how do you get this far into life and not understand elementary mathematics.
@@_Aemse Maff is Hard *drools*
From all accounts, TH was great on set. The cast and crew loved him GP on the other hand...
I also think we're just easily pleased. There's at least 50 actors that could've done as good a job or better than Don did. Thinking that only Don could pull it off is why we're in the problems we're in with the future of The Black Panther movies.
We can say the same for the Ironman role ? Options are always available
@@eduardocod8924 Eh iron man is different. after such a long run with RDJ, its hard to imagine him as anyone else, especially with his connon death being so recent
RDJ made the perfect tony stark because the character is basically a mirror of himself. Arrogant, narcissistic but trying to turn his life around
What about Hugh Jackman with Logan?
Binky these dudes are talkin out they ass lmao, we all know damn well the actors chosen perfectly fit and it would be gross w anyone eelse
I liked Howards and Downeys chemistry in the first movie, would have been cool if he saw the potential like RDJ did
To be fair, while it's easy to say, "Well, he obviously should've taken it, because look how Don Cheedle made out having taken that," if the explanation for the lower offer was that the director really hated his performance, it's likely that he would have continued to hate his performance, and rather than the growth of the movie role that Cheedle's James Rhodes saw, Howard's would've continued to diminish in focus until they wrote him out altogether.
I don't know why the director felt as you say he did, so I can't comment as to whether it was a fair move. But...well. I am not sure Howard made a mistake, here. The actors are not purely interchangeable in the role, so what Cheedle saw his role grow into is not necessarily what Howard would've seen.
That’s a fair analysis though I personally prefer Howard Terence performance.
In fact, I dislike Don’s with the War Machine.
@@ChyeHeng17 That's fair, too. I don't really have a preference, myself, and I couldn't tell you what about their performances were different that is due to the actors rather than the director or the writing. But _if_ I am right, then it's the director you have a disagreement with, and even if you're objectively right about Howard's performance being superior to Don's in the role, the director disagreeing would mean that the role diminishes while played by Howard and expands while played by Don. Even if it's something as petty as personal grudges or the like.
@@segevstormlord3713 Don's performance was so dull and easily forgettable. Like nobody mentioned anything memorable from his acting or character.
To me, Howard played the role with good personality added to the character.
But, perhaps it was not meant to be, if the director didn't like him. Perhaps, he was trying to outshine RDJ?
Well, we will never see him being the War Machine though. RDJ has even retired.
Playing Marcel vs Capcom, War Machine is fucking badass. Some people are saying Terrence was being too tough/arrogant and they don't like it. But I disagree. Don is too polite and skinny. I think Terrence would have fit War Machine.
I remember when Don Cheadle appeared on screen I had recently watched Hotel Rwanda.
My immediate thought was ‘War Machine just got an upgrade’.
Maybe I'm biased against Howard because I don't like him as a person, but I'm wondering what exactly made him think he deserved 4/5ths of the salary of the man who was not only the lead in the movie, but also the one who was single-handedly giving life and soul to the MCU.
Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but even around that time it was pretty obvious that Downey's charisma and appeal was drawing audiences (hence, money) in a way that you don't see with many actors, specially in a genre that, while not exactly "niche", wasn't palatable to most people; not to mention that Iron Man was not exactly Marvel's most popular character.
Downey went from being an uninsurable liability to an obviously bankable star who *made* Tony Stark and that's why his pay increased so dramatically. The real injustice was RDJ making only half a million as the leading role in the first one, not Howard being offered one million as a sidekick in the sequel. But I guess Howard didn't see it that way...
I don't know that he deserved 4/5 the salary of the lead actor, but he definitely didn't deserve less than he made for the first movie.
@@derek96720 I think it’s because anybody could’ve played Iron Man since most of the character was CGI anyway. Howard was more on screen than RDJ and that would’ve been the case going forward. It’s like the Hulks character, why pay him big money when the Hulk is CGI anyway? People don’t realize that Co-Stars make the Stars look better. Try to replace all the Avengers actors with low budget movie actors and keep RDJ and that movie automatically goes down the drain.
@@SRT_DRE wtf are you talking about? RDJ was definitely more on screen than howard and even when in suit, the innovative HUD kept his face in the scene. And there's a reason People talk more about Tony Stark than Iron man..
Especially when they paid him ten times what rdj did in the first. And it was a supporting role.
One mil offer was crazy tho for someone of his stature at the time
Don Cheadle's first appearance was at least twice better and show the chemistry between Rhoades and Tony more than Terrence did in the entire Iron Man 1 movie, and he actually got paid more for it.
ONE SCENE
Don Cheadle is a brilliant actor. His performance, dealing with his conflicted and complicated friend, was nuanced and emotional, most of all memorable. Loved it.
Terrence Howard just looked bored.
Terrence had an ego problem.
Signature of GOD
Not true lol. Howard's character was fun and care about tony more than Cheadle did. Cheadle's character just looks like he's fed up with everything tony does.
Terrence was way more friendly and caring to Tony than Cheadle.
To be honest, plenty of side characters are in the MCU, and Terrance didn't deserve the pay cut. Either you rehire someone, or let them go. Don't insult them by telling them you think their worth less than they think, after winning an award. I haven't seen any comments about Terrance doing a bad job. And I love Don, but he's too small to play Rhody.
I thought Terrence did great with the role tbh. His chemistry with RDJs Stark worked very well.
My impression has always been that he was more of a handful to work with behind the scenes than the director cared to deal with. For my part, the pay cut just felt like a slick way to make Terrence walk away without the drama of having to fire/remove him.
Terrance Howard actually looks like the Rhody from the cartoons/comics
Howard seemed like a diva in some of the interviews I saw him give. I really liked him in Hustle and Flow, but he appears so few times in Iron Man that it felt like they could have cast some aspiring actor for the role, instead.
I didn't know the studio didn't want RDJ at first, which seems effing insane lol
I actually really liked Terrance Howard as 'Rhodey', my issue was his recasting who looked completely different to the original choice (similarly like Ruffalo over Norton). I just don't get Howard was suddenly 'unsuitable' as he must've tested well to be cast, moreover why not recast when Favreau realised it wasn't working in the early stages of production (like Michael J Fox replacing Eric Stolz as Marty McFly)
look it up. the big guy of marvel was a racist among other things and thought all black people look the same so he recasted whomever. but everyone under him didn't like that so they were thrilled when they finally got rid of him
@@namminmi3275 I had no idea it was a different character till I watched this video.
If you are going to recast, the worst thing you could do would be to just go by whoever looks the most like the guy. Clearly they wanted something different than what they had.
@@Koooo4 I personally disagree, for me to recast with an actor who looks completely different from the previous takes me out of the film slightly as another character has to announce their presence in a scene (much like the courtroom testimony scene in Iron Man 2), to go from a light skinned black man with certain features then change to someone with dark skinned feels somewhat lazy to me. If Iron Man were a rebooted property away from the RDJ films I wouldn't have a problem, nor do I have an issue with Don Cheadle, more the way of the casting replacement.
@@dannyr2976 It's not like people arent going to notice a recast just because they look more alike. There'd still be a need to announce their presence.
Howard was in one movie where he didnt play a major role. Lots of people didnt even remember him lol
In the parallel universe where he kept playing Rhodey, do you think he went on to say 1x1=2?
OMG hahahaha I was looking for this comment. 1x1=2. He made his own language too LOL This guy Terrence is a annoying and a weirdo. If you look at his violent history to air hostess, his ex wives, divorced & remarried the same wives again... goes to show, he's just indecisive & has problems with compromising. Definitely the type always think he's entitled to some thing.
I never like him since Hustle & Flow & 50 cent movie. There's just something about him he was annoying. You can tell sometimes from an actor's performance in movies that he's just not quite right upstairs in the head. And Bingo. I was right.
I actually enjoyed Terrance Howard's performance as Rhody more than Don Cheadle's. I was pretty bummed when the second movie came out and I saw the switch. I like Don Cheadle, don't get me wrong. I just preferred Howard's take on the character
Terrance Howard is a more likeable actor. It's no disrespect to Don Cheadle, Don is great! But Terrance has a surprisingly fun and likeable on screen persona.
Howard felt like a war machine you would want to hangout with. Cheadle was a war machine who reminded me of Jerry Rice; dedicated, focused, and his idea of partying with friends is to say goodbye to his friends as they go off to party and he goes to the gym for a late night workout.
Who every wrote this video script comes off pretty biased against Terrance with some of his phrasing.
@@mr.doctorcaptain1124 This is like the perfect explanation. Also thank you for the laugh! 🤣
I like and respect don cheadle's role as war machine but i feel like the character would be more iconic and cool
@@srr9930 Everyone is entitled to like who they like. So yeah this guy did not like Terrance. I did not either and was hoping they would write the entire character out thinking it was the writing of the character I did not like. With a new actor I liked it fine. Everyone has their own take on things . You like the way it was played originally. You are not wrong.
I really liked Terrance Howard in the first movie, and expected him to come back for sequels. He was perfect for that role. And his armor was literally like Iron Man himself.
If he'd just accepted that "smaller" paycheck for Iron Man 2, he would have made a fortune just sticking to his character. But now its too late for that.
Must have been frustrating to see how "his" role just kept getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger. He missed out on being a full part of this now legendary set of movies.
Its a tragedy really.
I think he kinda dodged a bullet given how underwhelming they ended up making Rodey/War Machine throughout the rest of the franchise.