Pokemon Red, very first Pokemon game and first cave required flash, however, I somehow missed it and just did the cave blind and just changed my direction every time I was bumping in a wall.
If flash was better than sand attack or smoke screen, I'd tolerate it. But the HM moves that aren't surf, strength, or fly are basically worse versions of better moves for most of the early gens.
@@AnnFetamines First cave is Mt Moon, which does not require flash. You're talking about Rock Tunnel, which does require it and, for some dumb reason, asks you to backtrack all the way to Pewter City to get it by going to the back end of Diglett's tunnel. Many kids did it the hard way, because once they figured out that there was nothing but Digletts in there (and a rare chance at a Dugtrio, I guess), they turned around and went back to Vermillion, instead of checking it all the way out.
The Chamber Of Emptiness better be on here, the only reason it exists is because they couldn't think of somewhere to put the Spooky Plate and Banettite
OBJECTION! Gible isn't found in the annoying part of Wayward Cave, it's found in the sub level accessible through a secret second entrance that is hidden by Cycling Road. In D/P BD/SP, you need Strength to access this area, in Platinum you can access this area as soon as you get the bike.
I feel diglett cave feels quite themed. Taking you back to a new place on an old route, plus diglett and dugtro are cooler Pokémon then zubat. Rock tunnel is the last place before the game completely opens up and it feels so suffocating
I feel like glittering cave is hallway esqe because its mostly man made as they dug new paths to look for fossils. I quite enjoyed it, there's no other cave in Pokemon like it
Ice Path in Crystal is actually one of my favourite caves. Not only does it look pretty, I also liked the ice sliding puzzles. And I didn't see the strength boulder part as much of a puzzle since you just push boulders down whatever hole is the closest. Unless the Seafoam Island where you have to look for the corresponding boulders to completely block the river underneath (I hated that confusing maze as a kid) all the Ice Path boulders that you need are sitting on the same floor and just need to be pushed down.
Yeah Seafoam Islands is way worse than Ice Path (and honestly every other cave in Kanto) and didn't even get mentioned. I always fly to Pallet Town to avoid it on the way to Cinnabar.
*Diglett's Cave:* It is supposed to be a short-cut to Peter City, as the way was blocked off after Mount Moon once Cerulean City was reached. The player is *supposed* to go there, and talk to a NPC to get Flash in order to cross the Rock Tunnel. Except you require Cut to access that NPC. So most players explore there before getting Cut, are blocked off and can't do nothing, then decide it is pointless and will never go there afterward, since they think it is just a short-cut to Pallet Town. So yeah. Most people thought: _What is the point?_ It isn't Diglett's Cave is bad (well it is). It isn't a "cave". It is a pathway. But mostly: the design is absurdly bad. Why is the HM Flash so far removed from the Cave it needs it? Cut is obtained and used in Vermillion, while Surf and Strength obtained and usable in Fuchsia (or have practice boulder). 1- Why Cut is required to even get to that NPC? 2- Why is that NPC located there anyway? 3- Why the game has a short-cut to Pewter City at this point of the game? What needs does it fill? 4- Why can't we backtrack to Mount Moon from Cerulean City in the first place? To be honest, Diglett's Cave should have been one of the Underground Path allowing to circumvent Saffron City. When you add dropped items that can be find with the Item Finder like in the Underground Path, the Diglett's cave would have felt more unique. Just tone down the encounter rate. Those manmade paths always felt... lore-wise unnecessary? I mean, why would people would rather cross an underground creepy paths, instead of crossing a city? It exists just for the players to prevent going inside Saffron City for plot reason.
I think the best thing to do with caves is have 2 mandatory small caves during the main story that is just a quick run through. Then have victory road done similarly to B2W2 where its a long arduous trek consisting of wasteland, cave, maintain side, forest and ruins. Then have 3 or so caves be readily available {even if only at post game} that are long, deep, dark but not too dark, perilous excursions that require recourse management and preparation, bearing rare and powerful Pokémon and very skilled trainers.
3:50, I'm surprised the whirlpool island caves didn't beat the ice path. Catching Lugia was such a chore because of that location, and needing so many HMs prior to a legendary encounter feels rigged
Galar is the best and worst cave in my opinion. I HATED getting stuck in a cave because of getting a Zubat or Diglett like a million times and I sometimes forget to stock up on repel. So a nice little run through the cave had charm. But I also hate how simple it is at the same time
I will not take this Ice Path slander! It's linear, its puzzles are easy, and it has a unique tileset. How is it worse than Mt. Mortar or Tohjo Falls??
Rusturf tunnel is awful. It's a cave where you can only find whismur but you can get whismur as a common encounter on the route literally right before!
Scorched Slab is maybe the worst cave in R/S: it's one small room with the TM for Sunny Day in it, which you would probably never think to visit. And it only exists as a reference to Japanese mythology.
I had like 400 hours on Ruby before I stumbled across it, and I was shaking with delight that I'd missed an area and was ecstatic to find what was inside but alas...
Yeah the main problem is that it hadn't a legendary. While probably originally it had Terrakion in there (at least, according to an NPC) they should have put Keldeo (And perhaps Game Freak have thought about this in development, given that while encountering Keldeo with cheats in the wild, he has the Sword of Justice music, while for example Meloetta and Genesect don't have any legendary Pokémon ost if encountered)
@ Nah, I feel like Genesect would’ve made more sense as Challenger’s Cave is Unova’s version of Cerulean Cave and Genesect is Unova’s version of Mewtwo
One small thing to make Diglett tunnel slightly better, gen 7 is the one where leech life got super buffed. It makes Zubat just a tiny bit more exciting to use than in the older games.
I'm sure they will expand or replace glittering cave given they said the whole region would take place just in Lumiose City so having an expansive underground area is practically a requirement for that end
1:28 Man, Mt. Moon was a nightmare for me. In any other cave in Kanto, as long as you don't backtrack, you'll eventually reach the end, but in Mt. Moon, the first floor has two ladders that take you down a whole nother two floors before you finally reach a dead end. I was constantly wiping out because of constant encounters with my pokemon slowly dying to Paras-induced status effects while I tried to remember what paths I haven't already taken. By the time I left, I had a level 30 Wartortle. For reference, I got through Rock Tunnel with a level 40 Blastoise. Ran out of PP, but all considered not that bad.
You're not alone. The first time I played Pokemon Blue as a kid, I ended up with a Blastoise before fighting Misty entirely due to how lost I was in Mt. Moon
I remember one time when play through of FRLG I just forgot where Flash was gotten from, and I ended up going through Rock-Tunnel pretty much completely blind.
Ice Path as least exciting when there's stuff like union cave seems crazy to me. The memorable music, the path to the endgame, the sliding puzzles were unique at least, it's like the one unique cave location in the game! appreaciate your effort and content still, just my 2c
Union cave is uninteresting the first time you visit, but there's tons of exploration rewards when you come back with a few HMs. things like a secret exit to the Ruins of Alph and a lapras on fridays.
Caves are one of the few aspects that made me love Kalos as a region. Reflection Cave is perfect as a dungeon. Alola, in exchange, has the worst caves in the franchise. Mt. Lanakila is horrible and pointless. I have a soft spot for Johto early game, so Union Cave has a special place in my heart. It's really nice, it opens once you unlock Surf to go to Alpha Ruins and even the Lapras event. Granite Cave is not bad, but extremely dissapointing in ORAS.
Mount Lanakila in USUM is far from pointless, and it even has some cool battles and things to find there in SM. Definitely a great location in my book. Also, the whole dark part in granite cave is still there in ORAS, but you can't access it without the mach bike
Worst Cave is Mount Coronet. needing 6 overworld moves to fully scout it is hilarios second worst is Mount Mortar. Okay it´s completly optional, but when your 8, step in this cave and don´t find out is frustrating. And even with 14 and the aim to become Tyrogue is pain. And then "you have already 6 team members, we can´t transfer Tyrogue to PC directyl" makes it even worse, to find this way a second time with 5 Team members
4:20 Nahhhh Honestly I always hated Seafoam Islands a lot more, that's an optional dungeon where you can ger Articuno as a reward, but it's always been super skippable and the common encounters I just don't find memorable. Music's pretty dull as well and has none of that winter charm Ice Path I prefer much more for being a cool challenging and memorable place, that'll at least bother to have some unique encounters and a nice theme shared by Dark Cave that I always found a true bop. It does a lot for the region to feel better and even if the puzzle is a little annoying, it's fun to have somewhere to slide around in, Seafoam meanwhile I always found more tedious and with less unique Pokemon to capture, when most encounters are just water types they get dull easily
Kanto: Seafoam Islands is a pain to traverse to the point that it's better to surf South of Pallet Town to get to Cinnabar Island. Jhoto: Ice Path was a pain for me as a child, but I still need a guide to get to Lugia in the Whirl Islands.
My personal opinions out of the games I've no-lifed enough to have solidified opinions on: Gen 1 - Rock Tunnel Gen 2 - Dark Cave (if you decide to do it) Gen 3 - Victory Road Gen 4 - Wayward Cave Gen 5 - Twist Mountain I haven't played very much of Gens 6-9 (outside of ORAS and BDSP), so I don't have much of an opinion on them. I can't remember any particular cave as being awful, and this was around where HMs got canned, so there wasn't really any real way to get stuck/lost.
Honestly, I'd still give it to Rock Tunnel. At least Diglett's Cave is only really one room since the entrance and exit are both pretty small and don't have encounters. Rock Tunnel is about three or four and has twenty trainers in it. And you need Flash. It sucks.
The worst one imo are RSE Scorched Slab, Altering Cave, and the Chamber of Emptiness for all being pointless, one room caves. Scorched Slab is the least bad one here, though, as it did get fixed in ORAS.
Truly one of the best showcases of gamefreak's game design't, it has the whole package of outdated mechanics that only existed because of the gameboy's technical limitations and plain out bad gameplay decisions
Ice Path and other puzzle-based caves are fine to me, they have the vibes of an old top-down Zelda dungeon. The one I always hated was the Whirl Islands, sure Lugia is there but otherwise it's just Seafoam Islands but bigger, so you get even more lost. Ravaged Path in Sinnoh is also pointless, it could've been combined with Oreburgh Gate or just replaced with a single Rock Smash rock to stop you from going that way early.
I agree, I dont think that Diglett's cave is even that bad, but abilities did change the fun and flexibility of Gen 1 and 2 Kanto. The ghost type now can only be countered by Psychic due to them having Levitate which made ground ineffective. The most common early-game mons, Nidoran, has poison point which means you're more likely to get poisoned and need to run to a center. Arena trap made diglett's cave a NIGHTMARE to treck through.
fun fact (well to new pokemon players anyways) flash isn't required to get through rock tunnel you can still get through without it though its hella annoying but if you decide to go through with it you can actually sequence break the gym orders this way in fact the only mandatory order for the gyms is beating brock first, then misty, after those two you have to beat koga first before blaine and giovanni has to be the last gym leader you beat
I didn't have the luxury of guides, I had to figure out those caves myself. Thankfully the caves in the Gameboy/DS era weren't really that big to begin with. I was actually able to get through Granite Cave without flash and skip the gym leader in Emerald. I'm pretty sure you can't do that in the remakes, but because the Dewford gym was normally the last gym for me, that made it very easy to solo shot Brawly's team when I circled back around.
In the Indigo Disk DLC, there is a replica of Charge Stone Caves from gen 5 in the Blueberry Academy Terrarium. I remember getting lost in that area several times and having trouble finding my way out since the wild Poke'mon refused to leave me alone.
Jhoto's is 100% the cave where you get Tyrogue as a gift at the end. The game doesn't let you receive the gift if your party is full, so most have to leave and go back through the tedious path.
I don't care if Mewtwo is in it, I will never forgive Cerulean Cave for how lost I got in it as a child. Caught Mewtwo and spent forever just trying to find my way back out.
For me caves which i most hated (or less liked) each generation... 1) Seafoam Islands 2) Whirl Islands 3) Shoal Cave 4) Distortion World 5) Hard. All caves was good/hardly (but not extremely) hardly done there, very balanced. I liked them all. So hard to say which one was the worst, but maybe... The Clay Tunnel a lil bit on TOP? Idk... Let's just skip this gen. Maybe Chargestone cave as well... I didn't liked the crystal puzzle that much... But it wasn't a disaster, it was fun as well... No no, lets just... Skip this gen. Yeah! 6) Terminus Cave (and its also the hardest cave in whole Pokemon history, really really really extremely hard (not hard to find Zygarde or get out, but hard to explore it completely) 7) All caves easy... 8) There wasn't even caves... 9) Victory Road. Not because it was there. but because it wasn't there... It missed me there. Even gen 7 had canyon before league similar to victory road... and galar too (ice road, worst from all victory roads, but best from all caves in galar), why they removed it in Paldea.... But caves was very easy there, probably due to open 3D world, they still need to improve it. Let's see Gen 10. PS: But now let's be serious... If you think all these caves suck... Or hard... Or anything. Go play Mystery Dungeon Series... And you will stop laughing. :) Who likes caves, will love this game..!
I dislike Rock Tunnel entirely because of my personal experience with it from Let's Go. It's the only place where you can encounter Kangaskhan at 1% and I spent SO LONG there looking for one, I just had the worst luck. I encountered a shiny Geodude before I found a single Kangaskhan. Later I spent even more time there hunting for shiny Zubat and by the time I got it, I was sick of that freaking place.
Johto Victory Road is the worst of the Victory Road iterations, even though the flavor is there for it. Zero trainers in a Victory Road is inexcusable.
Cerulean Cave is awful but post game Mt Mortar is also awful, very confusing and I remember needing flash. It is optional tho. Hoenn has no caves basically, the first one requires flash tho to do anything cool Sinnoh's Mt Coronet is so big and so confusing and just filled with bad Team Galactic Trainers and you have to do it all
Rock tunnel was funny for me as a kid. As I played this game over andover again, nad without any knowledge on how to read english, I sometimes didn't get flash, and just waltz through rock tunnel, tumbling about until I got out
Diglett cave at least had the one Brock event in it in HG/SS and allows you to get a good trade and the old amber early. There has never been anything of note in Rock Tunnel besides the Rock Slide move tutor which isn't that interesting or necessary. By the time you get there you likely already have a Graveler/Golem if you wanted a rock and/or ground type on the team and if not it's better to just hold out for Rhyhorn or a fossil later.
Caves and other dungeons (like Tin Tower or the Abandoned Ship) are the best parts of playing through the main stories of the games. Actual exploration that requires at least a shred of mental mapping and thinking to navigate. Getting lost is a skill issue (that you should enjoy overcoming) and if you can't get lost then you aren't actually exploring anything. The loss of dungeon areas with puzzles like Ice Path's is one of the biggest reasons that newer Pokémon games suck. You wouldn't rather listen to Lillie or Hop yap your ears off with dull inane dialogue than actually play the game, would you?
I hated Rock Tunnel. It felt long and unnecessary. Plus there were trainers in there that said useless things and the hikers and lasses got on my nerves more than anything. If you chose Charmander you better have backup that is all I am saying. Digletts cave is easy peckings if you have a flying type. Dig can't hurt Pidgey or Soearow.
Eh I dont mind the encounter just gives me more exp and the puzzles are fun sometimes. I like ice skating and most stuff in pokemon is based on real life. It shouldnt be fun exploring a cave coz how cold and dangerous it would be coz there are bears that can live inside caves. So there gonna be tons of encounter in caves. I just use that to level up my water types. The Diglett tunnel is my level ground for my grass and water types so I dont really mind walking through it. The boulders well WTH are we gonna use Strength for if we not gonna use it? We can just remove every HMs then and just do TMs. It supposed to give us a challenge to teach us to be smart and memories. Sure kids hate it coz they dont wanna learn they just wanna game and continue but for adults we wanna earn what we get and solving puzzles is what earns us credits. Also where tf do u think we get coal from? Those caves are necesarry to drive industry etc. And rock and ground types must have a home too? Bats must have a dark place to live coz they are sensitive to lights and are blind. without caves its like play Skyrim without dungeons and ruins. I know ppl who play it so many times will get tired of it but we get used to it. Also so what if its long it gives my pokemon plenty of time to level up and u can just run away. Also use ur Escape ropes like the game tells u. I dont see anything wrong with it and the reason its there coz in real life they are there. But I get it ppl wanna be lazy and want the game to be easy but guess what, everything aint perfect for everyone. :) Good video and I agree with some agree like encounter for every 3 steps I guess that also why u need to save money to buy repels. U have items to get rid of your problems so just do that.
Kalos' (gen6) worst dungeon is Mirror Cave. It is full of Wobuffets with ability not letting you escape. They randomly cast their moves. Amkes yu want to never to return.
wait so you hate the repetitiveness of the old caves and the random encounters, but you also hate the caves in SWSH because they don´t have them? also I completely disagree with your complaints about the Legends ice caves, I have a terrible sense of direction and getting lost in those caves is impossible, they are too small for that to be a problem
@@gengargamer5657 Maybe but unlike shoal cave...there really isnt anything of worth there. There is a mega stone for a pokemon you cant get in oras the most basic encounters possible as its quite literally all zubats and golbats unless you fiah and then a legendary post the boxarts which feels a bit tacked on
Cliff Cave and Mount Silver Cave are the best in Johto Iron Island and Snowpoint Temple are the best in Sinnoh Clay Tunnel and Twist Mountain are the best in Unova Because Steelix
a few valid critiques sprinkled among overcritical and unnecessarily incisive opinions. also please work on your accent, some mispronunciations were unforgivable. progress (noun) and progress (verb) are not pronounced the same
I never really minded caves that much, but I've always hated Flash. So any Flash Cave is my least favorite.
Pokemon Red, very first Pokemon game and first cave required flash, however, I somehow missed it and just did the cave blind and just changed my direction every time I was bumping in a wall.
If flash was better than sand attack or smoke screen, I'd tolerate it. But the HM moves that aren't surf, strength, or fly are basically worse versions of better moves for most of the early gens.
@@AnnFetamines First cave is Mt Moon, which does not require flash. You're talking about Rock Tunnel, which does require it and, for some dumb reason, asks you to backtrack all the way to Pewter City to get it by going to the back end of Diglett's tunnel.
Many kids did it the hard way, because once they figured out that there was nothing but Digletts in there (and a rare chance at a Dugtrio, I guess), they turned around and went back to Vermillion, instead of checking it all the way out.
Thankfully, caves that required Flash didn't appear in Generation 6 onwards.
The worst part about it that even with that move, you still don't see very much.
The Chamber Of Emptiness better be on here, the only reason it exists is because they couldn't think of somewhere to put the Spooky Plate and Banettite
OBJECTION! Gible isn't found in the annoying part of Wayward Cave, it's found in the sub level accessible through a secret second entrance that is hidden by Cycling Road. In D/P BD/SP, you need Strength to access this area, in Platinum you can access this area as soon as you get the bike.
I was so disappointed when I saw there wasn’t a terastal Houndoom or a static encounter Houndoom when I returned to Inlet Grotto
Yea, that houndoom should have been a unique houndoom. A mark or a shiny or something. Achivement even if nintendo belived in those.
Rock Tunnel really is just the pits
I remember doing Rock Tunnel without Flash as a kid playing Red because I had no idea it existed. It took several days.
Cherry, peach, or apricot!
I feel diglett cave feels quite themed. Taking you back to a new place on an old route, plus diglett and dugtro are cooler Pokémon then zubat. Rock tunnel is the last place before the game completely opens up and it feels so suffocating
Seriously fuck Rock tunnel. I just completed the main game of Fire Red yesterday and I almost forgot how much of a pain old caves could be.
Yeah. from new caves (3D gaming, Gen VI onward) i had problem only with 1 cave: The Zygard cave (forgot the name). All else so ez..... :(
I feel like glittering cave is hallway esqe because its mostly man made as they dug new paths to look for fossils. I quite enjoyed it, there's no other cave in Pokemon like it
Gible isn't even in that horrible part of Wayward cave it's in the other one with the fun bike puzzles and Earthquake
Ice Path in Crystal is actually one of my favourite caves. Not only does it look pretty, I also liked the ice sliding puzzles. And I didn't see the strength boulder part as much of a puzzle since you just push boulders down whatever hole is the closest. Unless the Seafoam Island where you have to look for the corresponding boulders to completely block the river underneath (I hated that confusing maze as a kid) all the Ice Path boulders that you need are sitting on the same floor and just need to be pushed down.
Yeah Seafoam Islands is way worse than Ice Path (and honestly every other cave in Kanto) and didn't even get mentioned.
I always fly to Pallet Town to avoid it on the way to Cinnabar.
*Diglett's Cave:* It is supposed to be a short-cut to Peter City, as the way was blocked off after Mount Moon once Cerulean City was reached. The player is *supposed* to go there, and talk to a NPC to get Flash in order to cross the Rock Tunnel. Except you require Cut to access that NPC. So most players explore there before getting Cut, are blocked off and can't do nothing, then decide it is pointless and will never go there afterward, since they think it is just a short-cut to Pallet Town.
So yeah. Most people thought: _What is the point?_
It isn't Diglett's Cave is bad (well it is). It isn't a "cave". It is a pathway.
But mostly: the design is absurdly bad. Why is the HM Flash so far removed from the Cave it needs it? Cut is obtained and used in Vermillion, while Surf and Strength obtained and usable in Fuchsia (or have practice boulder).
1- Why Cut is required to even get to that NPC?
2- Why is that NPC located there anyway?
3- Why the game has a short-cut to Pewter City at this point of the game? What needs does it fill?
4- Why can't we backtrack to Mount Moon from Cerulean City in the first place?
To be honest, Diglett's Cave should have been one of the Underground Path allowing to circumvent Saffron City. When you add dropped items that can be find with the Item Finder like in the Underground Path, the Diglett's cave would have felt more unique. Just tone down the encounter rate.
Those manmade paths always felt... lore-wise unnecessary? I mean, why would people would rather cross an underground creepy paths, instead of crossing a city? It exists just for the players to prevent going inside Saffron City for plot reason.
I think the best thing to do with caves is have 2 mandatory small caves during the main story that is just a quick run through. Then have victory road done similarly to B2W2 where its a long arduous trek consisting of wasteland, cave, maintain side, forest and ruins.
Then have 3 or so caves be readily available {even if only at post game} that are long, deep, dark but not too dark, perilous excursions that require recourse management and preparation, bearing rare and powerful Pokémon and very skilled trainers.
3:50, I'm surprised the whirlpool island caves didn't beat the ice path. Catching Lugia was such a chore because of that location, and needing so many HMs prior to a legendary encounter feels rigged
Galar is the best and worst cave in my opinion. I HATED getting stuck in a cave because of getting a Zubat or Diglett like a million times and I sometimes forget to stock up on repel. So a nice little run through the cave had charm. But I also hate how simple it is at the same time
I will not take this Ice Path slander! It's linear, its puzzles are easy, and it has a unique tileset. How is it worse than Mt. Mortar or Tohjo Falls??
To be fair to Diglett Cave, at least it’s clear on what you’ll find in there. No false advertising here. 😂
Rusturf tunnel is awful. It's a cave where you can only find whismur but you can get whismur as a common encounter on the route literally right before!
I dunno. Want some easy HP EV training?
Scorched Slab is maybe the worst cave in R/S: it's one small room with the TM for Sunny Day in it, which you would probably never think to visit. And it only exists as a reference to Japanese mythology.
Fr, really glad ORAS ended up expanding upon it and put Heatran as a reward for going through it in the post game
As a kid I liked hatching eggs there because the name sounds super cool.
@ 👍
I had like 400 hours on Ruby before I stumbled across it, and I was shaking with delight that I'd missed an area and was ecstatic to find what was inside but alas...
in my opinion challengers cave is the worst in unova because its 3 floors leading to nothing plus they removed it in b2w2
Yeah, it’s weird too considering it was essentially Unova’s version of Cerulean Cave yet they didn’t put Unova’s version of Mewtwo, Genesect, in it.
Yeah the main problem is that it hadn't a legendary. While probably originally it had Terrakion in there (at least, according to an NPC) they should have put Keldeo (And perhaps Game Freak have thought about this in development, given that while encountering Keldeo with cheats in the wild, he has the Sword of Justice music, while for example Meloetta and Genesect don't have any legendary Pokémon ost if encountered)
@ Nah, I feel like Genesect would’ve made more sense as Challenger’s Cave is Unova’s version of Cerulean Cave and Genesect is Unova’s version of Mewtwo
One small thing to make Diglett tunnel slightly better, gen 7 is the one where leech life got super buffed. It makes Zubat just a tiny bit more exciting to use than in the older games.
I'm sure they will expand or replace glittering cave given they said the whole region would take place just in Lumiose City so having an expansive underground area is practically a requirement for that end
1:28 Man, Mt. Moon was a nightmare for me. In any other cave in Kanto, as long as you don't backtrack, you'll eventually reach the end, but in Mt. Moon, the first floor has two ladders that take you down a whole nother two floors before you finally reach a dead end. I was constantly wiping out because of constant encounters with my pokemon slowly dying to Paras-induced status effects while I tried to remember what paths I haven't already taken. By the time I left, I had a level 30 Wartortle. For reference, I got through Rock Tunnel with a level 40 Blastoise. Ran out of PP, but all considered not that bad.
You're not alone. The first time I played Pokemon Blue as a kid, I ended up with a Blastoise before fighting Misty entirely due to how lost I was in Mt. Moon
Finally, somebody answering a pokémon question that I actually care a lot about.
As soon as you said you didn't think Johto had many memorable caves, I immediately went "That's not true! There's...there's...uh...ummmmmm"
That's a good thing. Caves from gen 1 through 5 are pretty bad
Dark caves… the best feature of the new Pokémon games is no more random encounters.
Meh disagree
I remember one time when play through of FRLG I just forgot where Flash was gotten from, and I ended up going through Rock-Tunnel pretty much completely blind.
Ice Path as least exciting when there's stuff like union cave seems crazy to me. The memorable music, the path to the endgame, the sliding puzzles were unique at least, it's like the one unique cave location in the game! appreaciate your effort and content still, just my 2c
Union cave is uninteresting the first time you visit, but there's tons of exploration rewards when you come back with a few HMs. things like a secret exit to the Ruins of Alph and a lapras on fridays.
You're forgot the Cerulean Cave in Kanto. The cave with Mewtwo inside
Caves are one of the few aspects that made me love Kalos as a region. Reflection Cave is perfect as a dungeon.
Alola, in exchange, has the worst caves in the franchise. Mt. Lanakila is horrible and pointless.
I have a soft spot for Johto early game, so Union Cave has a special place in my heart. It's really nice, it opens once you unlock Surf to go to Alpha Ruins and even the Lapras event.
Granite Cave is not bad, but extremely dissapointing in ORAS.
Mount Lanakila in USUM is far from pointless, and it even has some cool battles and things to find there in SM. Definitely a great location in my book. Also, the whole dark part in granite cave is still there in ORAS, but you can't access it without the mach bike
sun and moon lanakila is garbage
usum lanakila is really fucking awesome
Worst Cave is Mount Coronet. needing 6 overworld moves to fully scout it is hilarios
second worst is Mount Mortar. Okay it´s completly optional, but when your 8, step in this cave and don´t find out is frustrating. And even with 14 and the aim to become Tyrogue is pain. And then "you have already 6 team members, we can´t transfer Tyrogue to PC directyl" makes it even worse, to find this way a second time with 5 Team members
4:20 Nahhhh
Honestly I always hated Seafoam Islands a lot more, that's an optional dungeon where you can ger Articuno as a reward, but it's always been super skippable and the common encounters I just don't find memorable. Music's pretty dull as well and has none of that winter charm
Ice Path I prefer much more for being a cool challenging and memorable place, that'll at least bother to have some unique encounters and a nice theme shared by Dark Cave that I always found a true bop. It does a lot for the region to feel better and even if the puzzle is a little annoying, it's fun to have somewhere to slide around in, Seafoam meanwhile I always found more tedious and with less unique Pokemon to capture, when most encounters are just water types they get dull easily
Kanto: Seafoam Islands is a pain to traverse to the point that it's better to surf South of Pallet Town to get to Cinnabar Island.
Jhoto: Ice Path was a pain for me as a child, but I still need a guide to get to Lugia in the Whirl Islands.
My personal opinions out of the games I've no-lifed enough to have solidified opinions on:
Gen 1 - Rock Tunnel
Gen 2 - Dark Cave (if you decide to do it)
Gen 3 - Victory Road
Gen 4 - Wayward Cave
Gen 5 - Twist Mountain
I haven't played very much of Gens 6-9 (outside of ORAS and BDSP), so I don't have much of an opinion on them. I can't remember any particular cave as being awful, and this was around where HMs got canned, so there wasn't really any real way to get stuck/lost.
Honestly, great concept. Such a cool idea.
Me, hearing you accent for the first time: "MEDELANDER????"
Flash caves are the actual worst tho
Honestly, I'd still give it to Rock Tunnel. At least Diglett's Cave is only really one room since the entrance and exit are both pretty small and don't have encounters. Rock Tunnel is about three or four and has twenty trainers in it. And you need Flash. It sucks.
Digglett cave had encounters tf
Aren't the Catacombs of Paris full of dead bodies?
The worst one imo are RSE Scorched Slab, Altering Cave, and the Chamber of Emptiness for all being pointless, one room caves. Scorched Slab is the least bad one here, though, as it did get fixed in ORAS.
Truly one of the best showcases of gamefreak's game design't, it has the whole package of outdated mechanics that only existed because of the gameboy's technical limitations and plain out bad gameplay decisions
Ice Path and other puzzle-based caves are fine to me, they have the vibes of an old top-down Zelda dungeon. The one I always hated was the Whirl Islands, sure Lugia is there but otherwise it's just Seafoam Islands but bigger, so you get even more lost. Ravaged Path in Sinnoh is also pointless, it could've been combined with Oreburgh Gate or just replaced with a single Rock Smash rock to stop you from going that way early.
I agree, I dont think that Diglett's cave is even that bad, but abilities did change the fun and flexibility of Gen 1 and 2 Kanto.
The ghost type now can only be countered by Psychic due to them having Levitate which made ground ineffective.
The most common early-game mons, Nidoran, has poison point which means you're more likely to get poisoned and need to run to a center.
Arena trap made diglett's cave a NIGHTMARE to treck through.
Sevii Islands: Lost Cave is obvious because you need a guide to figure out how to traverse it.
Sinnoh: Stark Mountain
fun fact (well to new pokemon players anyways) flash isn't required to get through rock tunnel you can still get through without it though its hella annoying but if you decide to go through with it you can actually sequence break the gym orders this way in fact the only mandatory order for the gyms is beating brock first, then misty, after those two you have to beat koga first before blaine and giovanni has to be the last gym leader you beat
This is awesome I didn't know you had multiple channels I thought it was just Nagapedia.
Lol wait till you find out there are three more!
@@Pichupedia I am subscribed to all BUT Nagapedia ;)
I didn't have the luxury of guides, I had to figure out those caves myself. Thankfully the caves in the Gameboy/DS era weren't really that big to begin with. I was actually able to get through Granite Cave without flash and skip the gym leader in Emerald. I'm pretty sure you can't do that in the remakes, but because the Dewford gym was normally the last gym for me, that made it very easy to solo shot Brawly's team when I circled back around.
In the Indigo Disk DLC, there is a replica of Charge Stone Caves from gen 5 in the Blueberry Academy Terrarium. I remember getting lost in that area several times and having trouble finding my way out since the wild Poke'mon refused to leave me alone.
It's really hard to take his word for the games I haven't played when he picked Diglett Cave over Rock Tunnel.
Jhoto's is 100% the cave where you get Tyrogue as a gift at the end. The game doesn't let you receive the gift if your party is full, so most have to leave and go back through the tedious path.
I hate the whirl islands in Johto. I always get so confused
I don't care if Mewtwo is in it, I will never forgive Cerulean Cave for how lost I got in it as a child. Caught Mewtwo and spent forever just trying to find my way back out.
For me caves which i most hated (or less liked) each generation...
1) Seafoam Islands
2) Whirl Islands
3) Shoal Cave
4) Distortion World
5) Hard. All caves was good/hardly (but not extremely) hardly done there, very balanced. I liked them all. So hard to say which one was the worst, but maybe... The Clay Tunnel a lil bit on TOP? Idk... Let's just skip this gen. Maybe Chargestone cave as well... I didn't liked the crystal puzzle that much... But it wasn't a disaster, it was fun as well... No no, lets just... Skip this gen. Yeah!
6) Terminus Cave (and its also the hardest cave in whole Pokemon history, really really really extremely hard (not hard to find Zygarde or get out, but hard to explore it completely)
7) All caves easy...
8) There wasn't even caves...
9) Victory Road. Not because it was there. but because it wasn't there... It missed me there. Even gen 7 had canyon before league similar to victory road... and galar too (ice road, worst from all victory roads, but best from all caves in galar), why they removed it in Paldea.... But caves was very easy there, probably due to open 3D world, they still need to improve it. Let's see Gen 10.
PS:
But now let's be serious... If you think all these caves suck... Or hard... Or anything. Go play Mystery Dungeon Series... And you will stop laughing. :) Who likes caves, will love this game..!
I dislike Rock Tunnel entirely because of my personal experience with it from Let's Go. It's the only place where you can encounter Kangaskhan at 1% and I spent SO LONG there looking for one, I just had the worst luck. I encountered a shiny Geodude before I found a single Kangaskhan. Later I spent even more time there hunting for shiny Zubat and by the time I got it, I was sick of that freaking place.
yeahhhh, stopped watching when you put digglets cave as worse than rock tunnel. clearly we have very different and incompatible tastes.
Johto Victory Road is the worst of the Victory Road iterations, even though the flavor is there for it. Zero trainers in a Victory Road is inexcusable.
No cave is really a problem once you have a repel, with this mind the worst one is Mt Moon because of Pewter City Pokémon Mart not selling a repel.
Lets Go added Zubats and Chansey chances to Diglett Cave, which actually stinks when trying to chain.
Cerulean Cave is awful but post game
Mt Mortar is also awful, very confusing and I remember needing flash. It is optional tho.
Hoenn has no caves basically, the first one requires flash tho to do anything cool
Sinnoh's Mt Coronet is so big and so confusing and just filled with bad Team Galactic Trainers and you have to do it all
I low key love the Galar mines just cause they're so pretty
Rock tunnel was funny for me as a kid. As I played this game over andover again, nad without any knowledge on how to read english, I sometimes didn't get flash, and just waltz through rock tunnel, tumbling about until I got out
Are we counting Scorched Slab? Because if so, that wins.
What's worse about Rock Tunnel: outside of the Origins anime it's not even a tunnel. It's just a normal ahh cave.
Somehow when i played pokemon red as a child, i didn't know about the flash hm and did the flash cave without it :')
Worst experience
Gen 1 Rock Tunnel is the worst. I can still hear the Zubats
Diglett cave at least had the one Brock event in it in HG/SS and allows you to get a good trade and the old amber early. There has never been anything of note in Rock Tunnel besides the Rock Slide move tutor which isn't that interesting or necessary. By the time you get there you likely already have a Graveler/Golem if you wanted a rock and/or ground type on the team and if not it's better to just hold out for Rhyhorn or a fossil later.
Caves and other dungeons (like Tin Tower or the Abandoned Ship) are the best parts of playing through the main stories of the games. Actual exploration that requires at least a shred of mental mapping and thinking to navigate. Getting lost is a skill issue (that you should enjoy overcoming) and if you can't get lost then you aren't actually exploring anything. The loss of dungeon areas with puzzles like Ice Path's is one of the biggest reasons that newer Pokémon games suck. You wouldn't rather listen to Lillie or Hop yap your ears off with dull inane dialogue than actually play the game, would you?
Nederlands?☺ Goede video man.
Dankje!
gen 3's victory road was torture
idk if the scorched slab counts, but that's the worst cave in RS IMO. it straight up has nothing going for it.
Ice path is one of my favourite caves from Johto 😅
Zubats
Zubats Everywhere
_(insert Toy Story meme here)_
4:44 The Sevii Islands are in fact part of Kanto
how come you didn't count Kitakami and Blueberry acadami? they are not even in Paldea as they are in different regions
I hated Rock Tunnel. It felt long and unnecessary. Plus there were trainers in there that said useless things and the hikers and lasses got on my nerves more than anything. If you chose Charmander you better have backup that is all I am saying. Digletts cave is easy peckings if you have a flying type. Dig can't hurt Pidgey or Soearow.
I'm sorry, how is Diglett's Cave the worst? It takes like a minute to get through. Rock Tunnel is far, far more annoying. Weird list.
Eh I dont mind the encounter just gives me more exp and the puzzles are fun sometimes. I like ice skating and most stuff in pokemon is based on real life. It shouldnt be fun exploring a cave coz how cold and dangerous it would be coz there are bears that can live inside caves. So there gonna be tons of encounter in caves. I just use that to level up my water types. The Diglett tunnel is my level ground for my grass and water types so I dont really mind walking through it. The boulders well WTH are we gonna use Strength for if we not gonna use it? We can just remove every HMs then and just do TMs. It supposed to give us a challenge to teach us to be smart and memories. Sure kids hate it coz they dont wanna learn they just wanna game and continue but for adults we wanna earn what we get and solving puzzles is what earns us credits. Also where tf do u think we get coal from? Those caves are necesarry to drive industry etc. And rock and ground types must have a home too? Bats must have a dark place to live coz they are sensitive to lights and are blind. without caves its like play Skyrim without dungeons and ruins. I know ppl who play it so many times will get tired of it but we get used to it. Also so what if its long it gives my pokemon plenty of time to level up and u can just run away. Also use ur Escape ropes like the game tells u. I dont see anything wrong with it and the reason its there coz in real life they are there. But I get it ppl wanna be lazy and want the game to be easy but guess what, everything aint perfect for everyone. :) Good video and I agree with some agree like encounter for every 3 steps I guess that also why u need to save money to buy repels. U have items to get rid of your problems so just do that.
Kalos' (gen6) worst dungeon is Mirror Cave. It is full of Wobuffets with ability not letting you escape. They randomly cast their moves. Amkes yu want to never to return.
How can you hate Diglett cave? Its a great little area to farm XP by killing all the Diglett and Dugtrio in the early game...
Worst cave in Kanto? What about Victory Road or Seafoam Islands? You didnt even mention those..
Now its this Kanto and most of the region of 4 gens are based of real places in Japan so those cave might be realistic accurate.
Emerald victory road with no prior information or empty shoal cave are pretty bad
The ones that need flash, hated them as a kid hate them now
wait so you hate the repetitiveness of the old caves and the random encounters, but you also hate the caves in SWSH because they don´t have them?
also I completely disagree with your complaints about the Legends ice caves, I have a terrible sense of direction and getting lost in those caves is impossible, they are too small for that to be a problem
Rock Tunnel is such a bore to get through
You forgot Scorched slab existed for hoenn didnt you?
Mainly the RSE version considering ORAS fixed it
@gengargamer5657 eh... beaises putting a mega atine and heatran there its pretty much pointless still
@@shadowdragun Not really, it got a proper layout and encounters as well
@@gengargamer5657 Maybe but unlike shoal cave...there really isnt anything of worth there. There is a mega stone for a pokemon you cant get in oras the most basic encounters possible as its quite literally all zubats and golbats unless you fiah and then a legendary post the boxarts which feels a bit tacked on
@ It’s still significantly better than the original
All caves have to go because of annoying Zubat
Cliff Cave and Mount Silver Cave are the best in Johto
Iron Island and Snowpoint Temple are the best in Sinnoh
Clay Tunnel and Twist Mountain are the best in Unova
Because Steelix
Snowpoint Temple is more of a tower than a cave
I know that. However they all have Steelix hence why I said the best places
Victory road. Black and white..
And kanto. But mainly unova.. will always be the worst
I think chargestone cave is the worst cave in the entire universe
It took so long to get out of that stupid electric cave puzzle place
Mt moon stressed me out so much as a kid for some reason
I hated altering cave, its a complete waste of time 😢
Mt. Mortar bad, Ice Path good
Yeah. Mt. Moon is at least tolerable. In my opinion is my least favorite
The answer is all of them
I disagree on gen 1 seafoam is the worst It is too easy to get lost in. At least Digletts tunnelI straightforward and optional
Even Seafoam is optional LMAO. You could literally reach cinnabar from Pallet Town as soon as you get Surf
a few valid critiques sprinkled among overcritical and unnecessarily incisive opinions. also please work on your accent, some mispronunciations were unforgivable. progress (noun) and progress (verb) are not pronounced the same
Cool
They are all bad