The best part of the show are the old stories of their hunts or knowledge passed on from the old timers. I can’t believe they don’t still covet the 30-06. My favorite deer round.
Have had all of the out hunting through the years but have to give love to the 25/06. It is a great deer cartridge period in my opinion and I loved the years of hunting with it. I did not handload, but for those who I knew that did it was even more special.
The old 270 win is hard to beat for a Deer rifle. Still as good if not better then ever with the newer ammo types out there. 130gr just seems to be the magic.
@@Manbunmen65but 270 ammunition is easier to find, so if your a factory ammo user then 270 has a huge advantage in that department. For me 270 has a huge advantage because I have an unknown quantity of brass piled up as it was first hunting rifle 25 years ago, always saved my brass to reload and haven’t started yet so when I do I’ll have more brass then I could possibly use lol
@jaydunbar7538 Just bought 100 rounds of Norma match 6.5 prc for 1.20 a round on Gunbroker. You should look around on this thing called the internet...you might be able to see clearer.
@rustyarnold7692 There's a big difference before you pull the trigger. It is the ergonomics of your rifle setup if your PRC is in a short action. You should chronograph your 270....see what those 130s are actually doing. In my Bergara 24 inch the factory Federal 130 grain terminal ascents are running between 3150-3180. I have shot it out to 425 yards on paper to see what the drop is on a 200 yard zero. 9 inches. You can't just look at the boxes of ammo or info online you have to find out yourself.
I was the biggest 6.5 creedmoor hater now it's my favorite deer hunting cartridge for range beyond 30-30 usage, but the 30-30 won't be leaving my hands in brush and deep woods
I'm with Ron, love the 284 Win. Got introduced to it in a Winchester model 100. But needed a bolt gun for the longer shots. Also like Ron, I wanted a lighter handier rifle. Purchased a Weatherby Vanguard Camilla Wilderness 7mm-08 ( 20 Inch barrel and more compact stock). Had my local gunsmith ream the chamber to the 284 Win. What a great rifle and caliber. The rig shoots 139 grain bullets at 3000 ft/sec. Deer don't stand a chance.
Great talk guys, my son bought a Tikka t3x light stainless in 7mm 08 and the mountain hunting gun shop where he bought it reamed it to 280ai. Always been a 7mm fan and that one is a keeper!
This is becoming one of my favorite new podcasts. I love all things rifles, cartridges, and hunting. Greetings from east Mississippi, home of the best whitetail and eastern wild turkey hunting😉. Keep up the great work, you and Mr. Ron Spomer.
@@BackcountryHuntingPodcast Howa Superlite with scope rail removed. Leupold vx3hd 3.5-10x, no frills canvas sling. The 130s are sitting on a case full of Varget.
I don’t understand why so many westerners think that just because we hunt whitetails in the east, that we’re automatically limited to close shots in big woods. In the last two years hunting north central PA I’ve shot 6 deer over 250 yards, and the furthest was 457 yards. Are long shots more common out west? Sure. But they’re not uncommon on the east coast either.
I’m out west and usually have no problems getting under 200 yards. You’ll have the occasional 400 yard shot across a canyon but even then you can always get closer.
Same I hunt in east Texas piney woods and my shots average between 200 and 400 with only a couple under 200. They don’t come to feeders on our place so I hunt the logging trails and catch them crossing.
I am out west , 250 yard shot or further is not common. Idaho north woods are dense. I could hunt elk with a lever action 45-70. They are just generalizing.
@@propertypreparedness6846 I agree, I think most people when they think of out west are picturing Colorado, Wyoming, and central Montana broken timber and high country meadows. It really just depends where you’re at though. North Idaho western Montana and anywhere west of the cascades is pretty much like hunting the east coast in a lot of ways.
When I started hunting deer in the 80’s. Here in New York, opening day was on a Monday before Thanksgiving. I had a Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine. At first light, you would hear the echoes from the hunters firing away. Back then, the Remington 742 and Browning BAR rifles were very popular with hunters from the NYC area and Long Island. The gun stores were selling semiautomatic rifles mostly in 30-06. The vast majority of these hunters were European immigrants who would prefer an automatic. After my first season hunting an open field. My shots were over 100 yards. I used the rifle on trade after the season to buy a budget priced Winchester Model 70 30-06. Around the early 2000’s watching the Hunting shows. I purchased a Thompson Center Encore with a 25-06 barrel. After two seasons, I went with a .300 WSM Savage with a thumbhole stock. It was used effectively for 5 hunting seasons. I went with a Remington 7600 in 30-06 to hunt in Pennsylvania and Remington 742 BDL for hunting in New York for many years using the Winchester Silvertip 180 grain for both Remington rifles. I have started using a Winchester Model 94 in the wooded areas with shots under 100 yards. I prefer the 170 grain Remington Corelokt. It sure does a great job on whitetail deer. Low recoil, able to carry around in one hand. For the Northeast woods, the 30-30 and .35 Remington Leveraction rifles are all you need. The old time hunters, have passed down their rifles to family. This is why you will see them around the hunting camps.
My first year I hunted with a old Ruger carbine in 44 rem mag, but I was born in the 80s so it was a well loved rifle by the time it got in my hands lol The family friend that borrowed it to me still around, I’d love to buy it from him but he’s never been the type to part with a rifle.
My favorites are 270 Win, 280AI and 35 Whelen. My personal favorites are the Rem 760 and 7600 pump action. My 280AI is a custom bolt action for longer range shots out west.
Live and hunt in Southern Maine and hunt in northern Maine and literally in my back yard can take a 250-300 yard shot, not saying I have taken a deer that far or shoot it often but it's there and up north across the clear cuts or fields 300 + yards happen often. And the 7-08 and 30-30 are my go-to deer guns so this made me smile. Around here atleast the 7-08 gets a bad rap as a youth or beginners gun but it's a flat shooting great round and I've seen black bears taken with both. And the 30-30 is probably the gun taken more animals in northern America than any other caliber. Alot of 30-06 around here. Which for moose or black bear yah I take the 06 but deer hunting my 30-30 is still the gun I take the stand 90% of the time. Everyone is all about the 6.5 around here.
Well I enjoyed listening to your theories, Not one single thing you talked about applied to me. I live in a state where you can't use bottle neck Cartridges. And for the longest time all we could use was muzzle loaders and shotgun slugs. But in the last several years now i've found my ideal white tail cartridge. 45-70! I cast my own lead. I use a RCBS 325 gr mold. They generally come out at about 340 gr because i use a bit softer lead. And since it's a little soft, I have to down load them a little bit. But this has benefits. Number one it reduces the recoil a little. Use just a little bit less of my precious powder supply. And it's deadly to 200 yards. I'm sure I could extend that range.But i'm using a lever action and no scope. Even a large deer looks pretty small at 200 yards when you're not using a scope.
The Remington model 788 in 7mm-08 with the 9 lug bolt was such an excellent deer gun as so accurate! The .284 win Remington model 7 mention put me in the mind to bring up that model 788! Mine shoots hornady interlock pills like match ammo! 😂
There is one thing that Ron didn’t mention that might be of importance to you - magazine length constriction as it relates to seating depth. When I build my 284 Winchester I used a Winchester Model 70 FWT (push feed XTR) that was originally a 243 Winchester. I removed the 243 box magazine and installed a WSM magazine, and adjusted the feed lips to allow the 284 case to feed flawlessly. The advantage of the WSM magazine is that it allows over 3.1” of length. I then lengthened the bolt stop. I’m afraid you’ll feel handicapped by trying to run that 284 in the Remington 2.8” magazine restriction.
@@BudgeG80 Friends of the family back east off an Adirondack farm were newlyweds. As a gift the parents gave the couple the ol’ 788 in 6mm Remington to them. They brought it to my dad who loaded for them, and I’m doing so, loaded the 80 grain Barnes TTSX. It has been a meal maker now for them every season. While testing the handloads before settling on a load we noticed the rifle’s penchant towards fine accuracy.
@@MIDNIGHTSUNALASKA what an awesome gift! Mine was my very first rifle I bought with my very own money as 17 year old. I’m 44 abd now have more newer options and I still use it to this day. Awesome rifle, i wouldn’t alter it at all! Well, With only a little lighter tigger from its original a free floated barrel and glass bedded action that is..
I'm with Ron on the 284 Win, awesome cartridge. I lucked into a nice Tikka T3 rebarreled to 284 win set up in the long action form factor with a 1-9 twist; its a great do all caliber.
If I used that caliber in Ohio I'd lose my hunting privileges... The ultimate hunting rifle should be legal in all states before anything else. If it's illegal in one state then it shouldn't be in the running. This is where the straight wall or cartridges , or even a shotgun rein Supreme because they are legal in all 50 states.
Nothing like having the same argument/ debate that happens every year and in every hunting camp since guns have been around, LOL!! I've hunted in my home state of Idaho as well as Wyoming, California, Nevada, Mississippi, and Virginia. Over the 60 years I've been hunting deer I've used the .357 Mag, 454 Casull, 30-30, 243 Win., 6mm Rem., 30-06, 300 RSAUM, 7mm Rem mag, 280 Rem., 280 AI, 405 Win., 45-70, and even my 375 H&H. Which one would I say is the best. I'd say the best caliber is the one I was using on any given day in the field. They all worked well and killed deer as long as you stayed within the given caliber's capabilities. Since I live in and hunt in Idaho where elk season follows the day after deer season ends. I don't want to be carrying several different guns on my hunts. As I've gotten older and more beat up(and my Doc telling me I have to reduce recoil to protect my store bought shoulders), I carry my 280 AI as my primary deer and elk rifle. I also bring my 45-70 (Marlin Guide Gun) if the need arises where I have to go into the deep dark timber after elk. So I guess I currently consider the 280 AI as the best deer rifle. I am also a handloader so I am able to tailor loads and bullets to my intended use.
The reason for the lower max chamber pressure of the 284 Win vs 308 is the fatter case, 0.50" vs 0.47"dia. and the rifles for which it was developed. The bolt thrust is caused by the max chamber pressure pushing rearward through the case. It is calculated by multiplying that max chamber pressure by the area of the largest part of the case body (technically, the interior diameter). It acts like a piston pushing against the bolt. The case body of the 284 is larger than that of the 308, so it pushes harder at a given chamber pressure. The rifles for which the 284 was created (Winchester Models 88 and 100) had just enough strength to deal with the bolt thrust of the 308, so to keep from exceeding that, the 284's max pressure is lower. It is important to note that typically some of that force is taken up by the case wall sticking against the chamber wall, but rifles are designed for to deal with the full force that might occur if there is oil or water acting like a lubricant in the chamber. In a stronger action, the pressures of the 284 can be pushed up some, but case life may drop a bit.
Backcountry Hunting what do you guys think about a 280 Remington for elk? I picked up a used Cooper 52 and it’s a solid 1/2” gun with 150 Accubonds at 2970ish fps. Up until now I have only used larger cartridges on elk. I limit my range to 400 yards and in.
With that accuracy, bullet, and range limit, you'll be just great. You might want to check out our other video with Ron about elk cartridges, where he talks about the .280 Rem quite a bit.
The 284 Winchester is one of those cartridges that was made to try and compete with the 270. It has some serious capacity because there’s people that make like a 6 mm dasher off in that 284 casing Winchester is the only one that I know of other than normal like you guys were talking about that offers the facture ammunition, and some of those barrels in the whole gun was actually handmade, so you don’t see that very often I’d like to see a 270 Ackley improved. That would be interesting because there are some bullets coming out that have higher BC you just have to look for a minute. It’s a handlers cartridge once you’ve done that.
All good choices, used a couple of them over the years. Last 12 years are so i have been using a 6.5 grendel either in the ar platform or a bolt action. Simply just works for my deer hunting inside 300 yards with a 120 grain bullet.
Where did Ron live in Indiana, and did he hunt in Indiana? Hoosiers need to know! And I’ll add one more point for the 270 Winchester. More than 30 years ago when you ordered Bullets in the Midwest you called a guy named Larry Potterfield. And yes, when you called Midway Larry, was the guy who many times would answer the phone. I remember one of those calls asking about Bullets for a 270 Winchester for deer. And Larry telling me the 270 was an easy cartridge to pick Bullets for, because it was hard to find a .277 bullet that was not made to be perfect for the velocity of the Winchester cartridge. Stuff like the .308 you had to be more careful about your choice.
Here in Iowa we were stuck with using straight wall cartridges. I've been using a 45 raptor for several years. A couple years ago they changed the laws to any cartridge 35 cal or bigger. I just got done building a custom 35 whelen on a 700 action. Loaded with 200gr TTSX bullets at 2845 fps. I'll be taking it to Idaho next week to try it out on a bear. I really enjoy watching your podcasts!! Thanks!!
What a dumb change, a good change in my opinion as more options is always better but just removing the restrictions all together would have made more sense. Can’t hunt with a 243 but a 9mm Luger is ok…
@@jaydunbar753871+ year old FUD here. Also a former Iowan who grew up there during the shotgun only days. I’ve been gone for 50 years but I could still go back and hunt with my relatives on their farms in northwest Iowa IF I could ever draw a permit in my lifetime. I keep up with the Iowa regulations and pretty much know them by heart. The guy posting here didn’t give all the relevant information. It is minimum 35 caliber for rifle or hand gun BUT the cartridge must have a minimum published muzzle energy of at least 500 ft lbs in rifle or hand gun, so I don’t think 9x19 will make the minimum. Maximum is 50 cal. No maximum case length. I don’t remember if they have a minimum case length. They have a list of some of the cartridges including 35 Whelen that meet their requirements but not all. They say if you have a question about a cartridge to contact the local game warden. I have a 358 Winchester which is not on the list but easily meets the requirements. I’m not sure if 35 Remington is on that list but it would be ok too. 358 Norma, 375 H&H, 458 Winchester or 50 BMG and you’re good to go. 444 Marlin and 45-70 too. But 30-30, 30-06, 300 Win Mag. 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 anything, 243 Winchester you’re SOL. I can’t make this stuff up. Go to the Iowa DNR website to read. To make matters even more confusing, in some zones in some special seasons you can us AR platform rifles in .223/5.56mm. I don’t remember about magazine restrictions. Again, I can’t make this stuff up!
Because other options that exist that won’t break the bank the same way, I don’t own any Weatherby cartridges and probably never will. I don’t have any issue with paying top dollar for ammunition, but I don’t like the idea of it being the only option. If I need a box in a pinch I want to be able to find it on a shelf in a classic option like rem core-lokt, Hornady whitetail, or any of the other similar options from other brands.
The 284 Winchester is one of those cartridges that was made to try and compete with the 270. It has some serious capacity because there’s people that make like a 6 mm dasher off in that 284 casing Winchester is the only one that I know of other than normal like you guys were talking about that offers the facture ammunition, and some of those barrels in the whole gun was actually handmade, so you don’t see that very often
I am in Ron's camp. My first deer rifle was a Savage 110 30-06 Wal-Mart special. I later ended up with a Sako L57 that was rebarrelled to 7mm-08 and it is my deer rifle of choice. 139gr Interlocks or 150gr TTSX.
Ron actually has a really good Washington state/Idaho accent. JVB has the very traditional Utah/mountain west/we use to call it the morman mountain accent. I love regional accents
I loved this episode, I was wondering if you could have the same conversation about shooting deer in New Hampshire and Maine habitats. In certain situations you may have an opportunity up to 250 yards but most of the time opportunities are anywhere from 20 yards to 100 yards at a Whitetail. Running deer and thick brush can often be an issue with harvesting a deer as well. I would love to hear about your cartridge selection and bullet design and composition for these parameters, thank you.
Believe it or not, the chamber spec of the 7mm Rem Mag is slightly tighter than the 7mm PRC. The shorter neck of the 7mm Rem Mag is less of a disadvantage since it has a more advanced chamber than the 280AI to align the bullet. The chamber of the Rem Mag has a section of tight freebore (a tube only 0.0005" larger than the bullet) before the taper into the rifling. If the bullet is loaded long enough to have the shank in the freebore, it will be precisely aligned with the bore. This helps with accuracy. The 280AI just has a taper into the rifling and depends on the shoulder and neck to align the bullet with the bore. It has a little more slop and might take a little more tuning to get the best accuracy.
Thanks for giving the 308 some credit. I never liked it until I got one. Browning A Bolt 2 308, 3.5 x 10 vx3 shooting 150 grain Interlock, American Whitetail load. Every shot I’ve had has been 200 yards or less. I have harvested around 20 deer with this combo. Have seen every Deer drop. All pass through shots. I hunt Midwest Whitetails. As you said, cheap and available ammo. I’m going to start running a suppressor, thanks for turning me on to Silencer Central. I’m going to look at the Xbolt 2 SPR 308 with a 18” barrel. What are your thoughts on this rifle. Love You’re and Ron’s channels.
308 is such a great cartrigde because its not really good in anything ;) For every situation there definitelly exists a cartrigde that will be way better for the job. BUT exactly this is the reason why i love the 308. It will not shine in any specific situation BUT it will get the job done. It´s great because its average in about everything :)
I’m behind on podcasts but you guys didn’t help me at all with this one. I have my first hunt west of the MS in November. Had it narrowed down to my 270, 136 grain terminal ascents and a 7mm-08 with 120 grain ttsx’s. Looks like they’re both on the list 😂
Love my town, while dropping the lady off at the Dr.s office this morning, my 4yrld yells "BUC!" from the backseat. I look up to see a huge bodied Muley grazing on side of the st.
As an Eastern hunter. I found that original Model 7 REM in 7-08 was the most deadly rifle I ever owned. It was so light and fast to the shoulder even a 94 couldn’t beat it. I had an oversized 4-12 Leupold on it and it was still under 7 pounds. It wasn’t a tack driver because of the thin barrel at 18 inches but it did 3 inches and better. But overall it was pretty much the deadliest rifle I’ve ever owned. I went on a drive with it and with 3 shots I dropped 3 whitetails 2 dropped in their tracks and the last went 25 feet.
71+ year old FUD here. Been hunting over 60 years. Started hand loading for a 1903 Springfield with a one-at-a-time Lee Loader when I was 15 or 16 years old. On my central Kansas farm I could have a shot at 50 yards in creek bottom timber or 400 yards across a bean field, but I would never take a shot that long. In the last 50 years I’ve killed more deer with my Ruger 77 270 Winchester than with any other rifle I own so I suppose I could say that’s my favorite. I use a common old Hornady 150 grain spire point in my hand loads at around 2850 fps. Some years I got several deer, some years none! I can only remember shooting a couple of deer at much past 300 yards. Average probably 150. The only time I ever used a tree stand was in muzzle loader only season and that scared me to death! I see a bunch of people writing that all we do out here is hunt from tree stands and that’s pure BS! We can have those long shots across the big pasture canyons in the Flint Hills or the Smoky Hills in the area where I reside. Sure no tree stand shooting in those places. You’ve got to walk and spot. I do have several other rifles that I pull out once in a while just for the enjoyment of shooting something different. 336 Marlin 35 Remington, Savage 99 300 Savage, ‘98 Mauser action built rifles in both 308 Winchester and 35 Whelen. Also 6.5x55 Swede and 7x57 Mauser. They’ve all worked for me and my hunting style. Variety is the spice of life. Happy hunting boys and girls!
I live in the south. I have shot a 280 rem a long time. I can buy 280AI ammo locally. I live in a small town. Even find the 280AI rifle. I just went to a 280AI. A Xbolt Speed Long Range 280AI. I have a 1@8 twist 26-inch barrel. I am working on load development on heavier bullets. A Hornady ELD X 175 gr. And a ELD M 180 gr. I have several friends shooting one. First 280AI I ever owned was a Kimber 84L 280AI hunter. I didn't even hunt with it. I sold it before season. Wasn't a fan of it.
The 6.8 western is so cool, but they can't give it away here in indiana. In fact, the local gunshop I visit has about 10 boxes on the clearance rack for 15 a piece.
Me too. In TX the guys at Cabelas say they don’t sell many Westerns or PRCs but I notice the 6.8 ammo does not stay on shelves when they put it out so somebody is buying it
@Molly8247 It does not help that I think the longest shot I've taken on a deer was within 100 yards here. You might get a shot across a beanfield, but if you hunt public, you are restricted to straight wall cartrages and slugs.
Awesome cartridge for pronghorn, mulies and whitetails. I watched a buddy kill a 173” mulie in Wyoming at a touch over 325 lasered yards using 120 partitions. The buck went 50 yards forward and 10 yards backwards before it fell over.
🤠 In Parts of The Country Where Your Shots Are Shorter, a "Short Action Cartridge" Makes The Most Sense! If You Are Only Hunting Whitetail Deer in Those States, Then I Would Go With a 7mm-08! If Moose and Other Bigger Critters Are Also Available (Like Maine or Minnesota), Then I Would Pick The 308 Winchester! If Factory Ammunition Availability is The Main Concern (Why Ron Picked The 308 Over The 7mm-08) Out West, Then I Would Use That Same Logic To Pick The 270 Winchester Over The 280 AI! 👨⚖️
I used a 62 grain federal fusion 223 out of an 18” Jp enterprise barrel. Took a high shoulder shot on an 8 point blew thru both shoulders. Did a flip and died immediately in its track. There was no blood shot meat. No bad tasting meat from adrenaline because it didn’t run. And very minimum meat damage. Would I hunt like that every time no I just used it because I had an optic. The ar platform sucks to carry around. So if you use 223 I would think it’s a great cartridge if you take that specific shot with a tough bullet but I wouldn’t shoot heart and lung doubt you’ll even get a blood trail. There was hardly any blood.
Great video. Here's a question for both of you. I already have a Model 700 in 280 Remington that shoots 140 Accubonds right at 2965 FPS and I get 3/4" or better groups. Do you think it is worth moving up to a 280 AI while still shooting 140 Accubonds or is the move only worth it if I shoot at least 150 grain bullets?
You Big Sky folks need to come here to the highly claustrophobic eastern dense woods where a long shot is stretching your arm out a little with a good 6" knife... For the out of reach ones, I use a 20" SS Mod 7 in 308 with 165 Gr Partitions kuz we got Big black bears around here, too, and you need enough boolit to settle arguments with them, too. At 2650 MV, and 2.75" hi at 100 yards, it is a direct hold to 250 yards and a 6" holdover at 300. Beyond that, the boolit drops below 2000 f/s, so reliable expansion on a soft deer gets 'iffy'. For those galactic distance long shots I use a regular 280 rem with 140 gr Partitions at 3000 MV. Worx for me. I only hunt live game with Nosler Partitions kuz they wont blow up on Bro Bear at 5 feet. You gotta git Thru all that hair, hide, fat, muscle and bone to mess up the plumbing in the boiler room! THAT shot will be head-on! Eat Meat. Dunt git ET git'n it!!
Ive left the 7 mag the 06 the model7 in708 and a bunch of others for the 303 savage in a 120 year old model 1899 take down The thuttythutty is its equal.with the new leverevalution powder thi is a true 250 yd cartridge.i know that there are more powerful flatter cartridges but for nm mulies in the pinon/juniper hills the 303 or 3030 are perfect
See now I'm not in there, because you just said about the availability of 708 rifles and ammunition. Can find them all day long in Pennsylvania. No matter where you go there's 708
i don’t think it’s really harder to find rifles or ammo in 7mm-08, now that we have those new fangled internets. for my daughter’s 18th, i got get an X-bolt Hunter with 4 boxes of ammo - 2x Hornady Whitetail & 2x Superformance CX. Had no trouble finding any of it.
Maybe in the US but they don´t ship ammo in europe. This means you can buy it on the internet but you have to appear in person to collect it. This sucks. Especially because i wait since 2 month that 150 grainer in FMJ (for training) in 308 become availiable again. All shops have this "shitty" 180 grainers (I guess because nobody buys them). All hunting ammo is still available BUT i have a "problem" with training when a single shot costs me 4 bucks. For hunting perfect BUT for the range i WANT my cheap FMJs ;)
I love my seven and I'm gonna wait and in North Central Pennsylvania. I don't have a problem finding or looking for 708 because I reload and I already have all the brass and powder and bolts that I need for the rest of my life 59 years old plus part of my son's life. One of my my son's lives. I have two sons.😅
300 yds and under, there are so many great options to discuss in one episode. Over 300yds your looking at 243, maybe a 260 Rem, 25-06, 280, 280AI and the short mags in 6mm, 6.5, 270/6.8, and 280/7mm cartridges. Sorry Ron, if you're wanting a 300 yd mpbr, you're not going to get it from a 308. It and the 7-08 are plenty accurate to reach out and do the job, but you're going to need to know your distance and trajectory.
🤠 SO, TO SUM UP THE VIDEO, THE 7MM-08, 284 WINCHESTER, AND 280 AI DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AVAILABLITY! ☹️ SO, FOR CLOSE RANGE, THE 308 WINCHESTER! AND, AT DISTANCE, THE 270 WINCHESTER! 🤑
Serious question, How much are slack tolerances improved in an older with 'close enough' chambering by fire forming cases and only neck sizing on reloading?
To ethical hunting distances they are literally the same. If you don't believe me look up the Hornady Precision Hunter for each. There is 1 inch difference in drop at 500 yds.
Any one who compares a 280 AI reload to a 7 mag properly loaded and says it’s similar performance is off their rockers. Fully formed cases. Bullets seated out. 7 rem mag has more case capacity by a long shot. When I am running a 195gn Berger in my 7 mag, having well over 70 grains of powder in it and still hear air in the case. No way a 280 ai will get even close to that performance.
🤠 For Those of Us Who Live Out West, The Bigger Bucks and Bulls Often Live At Higher Elevations! At Those Higher Elevations, a 1 in 10 Twist 270 Winchester Will Stabalize Those Heavier and Higher B.C. Bullets (Up to 180 grain Bonded Bullets) If You Reload? Thus, The 270 Winchester Doesn't Need To Take a "Back Seat" To Either The 280 AI or 30-06! 😮
The best part of the show are the old stories of their hunts or knowledge passed on from the old timers. I can’t believe they don’t still covet the 30-06. My favorite deer round.
The brand new innovative and space aged 30-06, 280rem, 270win, and 25-06rem fill my needs for about anything that walks.
Have had all of the out hunting through the years but have to give love to the 25/06. It is a great deer cartridge period in my opinion and I loved the years of hunting with it. I did not handload, but for those who I knew that did it was even more special.
Both the first two for me. Friend swears by 270. No knowledge on the 25-06.
The old 270 win is hard to beat for a Deer rifle. Still as good if not better then ever with the newer ammo types out there. 130gr just seems to be the magic.
.270 win still checks the most boxes for me. And it has always worked
Jack O'Connor answered this question decades ago. 270 win.
270. This guy just moved up a notch in my book
@jamespowell7609 270 is okay but can't hang with the 6.5 PRC.
@@Manbunmen65until you get past 400 yards there is literally no difference in them.
@@Manbunmen65but 270 ammunition is easier to find, so if your a factory ammo user then 270 has a huge advantage in that department. For me 270 has a huge advantage because I have an unknown quantity of brass piled up as it was first hunting rifle 25 years ago, always saved my brass to reload and haven’t started yet so when I do I’ll have more brass then I could possibly use lol
@jaydunbar7538 Just bought 100 rounds of Norma match 6.5 prc for 1.20 a round on Gunbroker. You should look around on this thing called the internet...you might be able to see clearer.
@rustyarnold7692 There's a big difference before you pull the trigger. It is the ergonomics of your rifle setup if your PRC is in a short action. You should chronograph your 270....see what those 130s are actually doing. In my Bergara 24 inch the factory Federal 130 grain terminal ascents are running between 3150-3180. I have shot it out to 425 yards on paper to see what the drop is on a 200 yard zero. 9 inches. You can't just look at the boxes of ammo or info online you have to find out yourself.
I just acquired my 280AI in a Kimber and have been really impressed with it, can't wait to get my first kill with it
exactly--270 win. great capability, available everywhere!!
I was the biggest 6.5 creedmoor hater now it's my favorite deer hunting cartridge for range beyond 30-30 usage, but the 30-30 won't be leaving my hands in brush and deep woods
I'm with Ron, love the 284 Win. Got introduced to it in a Winchester model 100. But needed a bolt gun for the longer shots. Also like Ron, I wanted a lighter handier rifle. Purchased a Weatherby Vanguard Camilla Wilderness 7mm-08 ( 20 Inch barrel and more compact stock). Had my local gunsmith ream the chamber to the 284 Win. What a great rifle and caliber. The rig shoots 139 grain bullets at 3000 ft/sec. Deer don't stand a chance.
I've been using a model 77 Ruger in 7×57 since 1977 in Michigan's upper peninsula and northeast Wisconsin. Always does the job.
Great talk guys, my son bought a Tikka t3x light stainless in 7mm 08 and the mountain hunting gun shop where he bought it reamed it to 280ai. Always been a 7mm fan and that one is a keeper!
Awesome!
This is becoming one of my favorite new podcasts. I love all things rifles, cartridges, and hunting. Greetings from east Mississippi, home of the best whitetail and eastern wild turkey hunting😉. Keep up the great work, you and Mr. Ron Spomer.
South west Mississippi here👋
thanks!
HOTTY TODDY!!!!
308 Win, 130 gr Barnes TTSX, 6lb ready to hunt rifle with sling. After 35 years, this is my settled done deer system.
Awesome! What rifle is it, by chance?
@@BackcountryHuntingPodcast Howa Superlite with scope rail removed. Leupold vx3hd 3.5-10x, no frills canvas sling. The 130s are sitting on a case full of Varget.
Amigo, gasta una fortuna en TSX para equipar un 270 cuando hay puntas mucho más baratas para el 270, vende ese repugnante 308 y compra un 270
I don’t understand why so many westerners think that just because we hunt whitetails in the east, that we’re automatically limited to close shots in big woods. In the last two years hunting north central PA I’ve shot 6 deer over 250 yards, and the furthest was 457 yards. Are long shots more common out west? Sure. But they’re not uncommon on the east coast either.
You answered your own question shots in the west are generally longer and shots in the east are generally shorter. It’s a generalization
I’m out west and usually have no problems getting under 200 yards. You’ll have the occasional 400 yard shot across a canyon but even then you can always get closer.
Same I hunt in east Texas piney woods and my shots average between 200 and 400 with only a couple under 200. They don’t come to feeders on our place so I hunt the logging trails and catch them crossing.
I am out west , 250 yard shot or further is not common. Idaho north woods are dense. I could hunt elk with a lever action 45-70. They are just generalizing.
@@propertypreparedness6846 I agree, I think most people when they think of out west are picturing Colorado, Wyoming, and central Montana broken timber and high country meadows. It really just depends where you’re at though. North Idaho western Montana and anywhere west of the cascades is pretty much like hunting the east coast in a lot of ways.
When I started hunting deer in the 80’s. Here in New York, opening day was on a Monday before Thanksgiving. I had a Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine. At first light, you would hear the echoes from the hunters firing away. Back then, the Remington 742 and Browning BAR rifles were very popular with hunters from the NYC area and Long Island. The gun stores were selling semiautomatic rifles mostly in 30-06. The vast majority of these hunters were European immigrants who would prefer an automatic.
After my first season hunting an open field. My shots were over 100 yards. I used the rifle on trade after the season to buy a budget priced Winchester Model 70 30-06. Around the early 2000’s watching the Hunting shows. I purchased a Thompson Center Encore with a 25-06 barrel. After two seasons, I went with a .300 WSM Savage with a thumbhole stock. It was used effectively for 5 hunting seasons. I went with a Remington 7600 in 30-06 to hunt in Pennsylvania and Remington 742 BDL for hunting in New York for many years using the Winchester Silvertip 180 grain for both Remington rifles.
I have started using a Winchester Model 94 in the wooded areas with shots under 100 yards. I prefer the 170 grain Remington Corelokt. It sure does a great job on whitetail deer. Low recoil, able to carry around in one hand.
For the Northeast woods, the 30-30 and .35 Remington Leveraction rifles are all you need. The old time hunters, have passed down their rifles to family. This is why you will see them around the hunting camps.
My first year I hunted with a old Ruger carbine in 44 rem mag, but I was born in the 80s so it was a well loved rifle by the time it got in my hands lol
The family friend that borrowed it to me still around, I’d love to buy it from him but he’s never been the type to part with a rifle.
Personally I use and love the new/old 270wsm
My favorites are 270 Win, 280AI and 35 Whelen. My personal favorites are the Rem 760 and 7600 pump action.
My 280AI is a custom bolt action for longer range shots out west.
Live and hunt in Southern Maine and hunt in northern Maine and literally in my back yard can take a 250-300 yard shot, not saying I have taken a deer that far or shoot it often but it's there and up north across the clear cuts or fields 300 + yards happen often. And the 7-08 and 30-30 are my go-to deer guns so this made me smile. Around here atleast the 7-08 gets a bad rap as a youth or beginners gun but it's a flat shooting great round and I've seen black bears taken with both. And the 30-30 is probably the gun taken more animals in northern America than any other caliber. Alot of
30-06 around here. Which for moose or black bear yah I take the 06 but deer hunting my 30-30 is still the gun I take the stand 90% of the time. Everyone is all about the 6.5 around here.
I have a backcountry 2.0 carbon in 280ai with 22" barrel and it shoots lights out. Such a great light rifle for that cartridge
.270 Win
Well I enjoyed listening to your theories, Not one single thing you talked about applied to me. I live in a state where you can't use bottle neck Cartridges. And for the longest time all we could use was muzzle loaders and shotgun slugs. But in the last several years now i've found my ideal white tail cartridge. 45-70!
I cast my own lead. I use a RCBS 325 gr mold. They generally come out at about 340 gr because i use a bit softer lead. And since it's a little soft, I have to down load them a little bit. But this has benefits. Number one it reduces the recoil a little. Use just a little bit less of my precious powder supply. And it's deadly to 200 yards. I'm sure I could extend that range.But i'm using a lever action and no scope. Even a large deer looks pretty small at 200 yards when you're not using a scope.
The Remington model 788 in 7mm-08 with the 9 lug bolt was such an excellent deer gun as so accurate! The .284 win Remington model 7 mention put me in the mind to bring up that model 788! Mine shoots hornady interlock pills like match ammo! 😂
There is one thing that Ron didn’t mention that might be of importance to you - magazine length constriction as it relates to seating depth.
When I build my 284 Winchester I used a Winchester Model 70 FWT (push feed XTR) that was originally a 243 Winchester.
I removed the 243 box magazine and installed a WSM magazine, and adjusted the feed lips to allow the 284 case to feed flawlessly.
The advantage of the WSM magazine is that it allows over 3.1” of length.
I then lengthened the bolt stop.
I’m afraid you’ll feel handicapped by trying to run that 284 in the Remington 2.8” magazine restriction.
@@MIDNIGHTSUNALASKAyes sir and I haven’t thought to nor I’m I going to try..
@@BudgeG80 Friends of the family back east off an Adirondack farm were newlyweds. As a gift the parents gave the couple the ol’ 788 in 6mm Remington to them.
They brought it to my dad who loaded for them, and I’m doing so, loaded the 80 grain Barnes TTSX.
It has been a meal maker now for them every season.
While testing the handloads before settling on a load we noticed the rifle’s penchant towards fine accuracy.
@@MIDNIGHTSUNALASKA what an awesome gift! Mine was my very first rifle I bought with my very own money as 17 year old. I’m 44 abd now have more newer options and I still use it to this day. Awesome rifle, i wouldn’t alter it at all! Well, With only a little lighter tigger from its original a free floated barrel and glass bedded action that is..
I'm with Ron on the 284 Win, awesome cartridge. I lucked into a nice Tikka T3 rebarreled to 284 win set up in the long action form factor with a 1-9 twist; its a great do all caliber.
If I used that caliber in Ohio I'd lose my hunting privileges...
The ultimate hunting rifle should be legal in all states before anything else.
If it's illegal in one state then it shouldn't be in the running.
This is where the straight wall or cartridges , or even a shotgun rein Supreme because they are legal in all 50 states.
Nothing like having the same argument/ debate that happens every year and in every hunting camp since guns have been around, LOL!! I've hunted in my home state of Idaho as well as Wyoming, California, Nevada, Mississippi, and Virginia. Over the 60 years I've been hunting deer I've used the .357 Mag, 454 Casull, 30-30, 243 Win., 6mm Rem., 30-06, 300 RSAUM, 7mm Rem mag, 280 Rem., 280 AI, 405 Win., 45-70, and even my 375 H&H. Which one would I say is the best. I'd say the best caliber is the one I was using on any given day in the field. They all worked well and killed deer as long as you stayed within the given caliber's capabilities. Since I live in and hunt in Idaho where elk season follows the day after deer season ends. I don't want to be carrying several different guns on my hunts. As I've gotten older and more beat up(and my Doc telling me I have to reduce recoil to protect my store bought shoulders), I carry my 280 AI as my primary deer and elk rifle. I also bring my 45-70 (Marlin Guide Gun) if the need arises where I have to go into the deep dark timber after elk. So I guess I currently consider the 280 AI as the best deer rifle. I am also a handloader so I am able to tailor loads and bullets to my intended use.
The reason for the lower max chamber pressure of the 284 Win vs 308 is the fatter case, 0.50" vs 0.47"dia. and the rifles for which it was developed. The bolt thrust is caused by the max chamber pressure pushing rearward through the case. It is calculated by multiplying that max chamber pressure by the area of the largest part of the case body (technically, the interior diameter). It acts like a piston pushing against the bolt. The case body of the 284 is larger than that of the 308, so it pushes harder at a given chamber pressure. The rifles for which the 284 was created (Winchester Models 88 and 100) had just enough strength to deal with the bolt thrust of the 308, so to keep from exceeding that, the 284's max pressure is lower. It is important to note that typically some of that force is taken up by the case wall sticking against the chamber wall, but rifles are designed for to deal with the full force that might occur if there is oil or water acting like a lubricant in the chamber.
In a stronger action, the pressures of the 284 can be pushed up some, but case life may drop a bit.
Backcountry Hunting what do you guys think about a 280 Remington for elk? I picked up a used Cooper 52 and it’s a solid 1/2” gun with 150 Accubonds at 2970ish fps. Up until now I have only used larger cartridges on elk. I limit my range to 400 yards and in.
With that accuracy, bullet, and range limit, you'll be just great. You might want to check out our other video with Ron about elk cartridges, where he talks about the .280 Rem quite a bit.
The 284 Winchester is one of those cartridges that was made to try and compete with the 270. It has some serious capacity because there’s people that make like a 6 mm dasher off in that 284 casing Winchester is the only one that I know of other than normal like you guys were talking about that offers the facture ammunition, and some of those barrels in the whole gun was actually handmade, so you don’t see that very often I’d like to see a 270 Ackley improved. That would be interesting because there are some bullets coming out that have higher BC you just have to look for a minute. It’s a handlers cartridge once you’ve done that.
All good choices, used a couple of them over the years.
Last 12 years are so i have been using a 6.5 grendel either in the ar platform or a bolt action.
Simply just works for my deer hunting inside 300 yards with a 120 grain bullet.
35 whelen for everything! Alaska to Florida!
Where did Ron live in Indiana, and did he hunt in Indiana? Hoosiers need to know!
And I’ll add one more point for the 270 Winchester. More than 30 years ago when you ordered Bullets in the Midwest you called a guy named Larry Potterfield. And yes, when you called Midway Larry, was the guy who many times would answer the phone. I remember one of those calls asking about Bullets for a 270 Winchester for deer. And Larry telling me the 270 was an easy cartridge to pick Bullets for, because it was hard to find a .277 bullet that was not made to be perfect for the velocity of the Winchester cartridge. Stuff like the .308 you had to be more careful about your choice.
I don’t use it but I have to say the 6.5 Creedmoor is about perfect for deer. 😅
You mean the 6.5 cripplemore
@@cjr4497😂😂😂first time hearing that one.
Lea@@cjr4497
Here in Iowa we were stuck with using straight wall cartridges. I've been using a 45 raptor for several years. A couple years ago they changed the laws to any cartridge 35 cal or bigger. I just got done building a custom 35 whelen on a 700 action. Loaded with 200gr TTSX bullets at 2845 fps. I'll be taking it to Idaho next week to try it out on a bear. I really enjoy watching your podcasts!! Thanks!!
What a dumb change, a good change in my opinion as more options is always better but just removing the restrictions all together would have made more sense. Can’t hunt with a 243 but a 9mm Luger is ok…
@@jaydunbar753871+ year old FUD here. Also a former Iowan who grew up there during the shotgun only days. I’ve been gone for 50 years but I could still go back and hunt with my relatives on their farms in northwest Iowa IF I could ever draw a permit in my lifetime. I keep up with the Iowa regulations and pretty much know them by heart. The guy posting here didn’t give all the relevant information. It is minimum 35 caliber for rifle or hand gun BUT the cartridge must have a minimum published muzzle energy of at least 500 ft lbs in rifle or hand gun, so I don’t think 9x19 will make the minimum. Maximum is 50 cal. No maximum case length. I don’t remember if they have a minimum case length. They have a list of some of the cartridges including 35 Whelen that meet their requirements but not all. They say if you have a question about a cartridge to contact the local game warden. I have a 358 Winchester which is not on the list but easily meets the requirements. I’m not sure if 35 Remington is on that list but it would be ok too. 358 Norma, 375 H&H, 458 Winchester or 50 BMG and you’re good to go. 444 Marlin and 45-70 too. But 30-30, 30-06, 300 Win Mag. 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 anything, 243 Winchester you’re SOL. I can’t make this stuff up. Go to the Iowa DNR website to read. To make matters even more confusing, in some zones in some special seasons you can us AR platform rifles in .223/5.56mm. I don’t remember about magazine restrictions. Again, I can’t make this stuff up!
257 Weatherby, 100gr partitions. 3500FPS. How is that not the number 1 choice for deer?
257 Weatherby is a dream of mine to own. One day within the next few years I hope to have one🤞
Always wanted one of those. Built a .257 roberts since i inherited brass. May take it out this yr
Why not.. Brass is way to expensive
Because other options that exist that won’t break the bank the same way, I don’t own any Weatherby cartridges and probably never will. I don’t have any issue with paying top dollar for ammunition, but I don’t like the idea of it being the only option. If I need a box in a pinch I want to be able to find it on a shelf in a classic option like rem core-lokt, Hornady whitetail, or any of the other similar options from other brands.
Weatherby = $$$
The 284 Winchester is one of those cartridges that was made to try and compete with the 270. It has some serious capacity because there’s people that make like a 6 mm dasher off in that 284 casing Winchester is the only one that I know of other than normal like you guys were talking about that offers the facture ammunition, and some of those barrels in the whole gun was actually handmade, so you don’t see that very often
I am in Ron's camp. My first deer rifle was a Savage 110 30-06 Wal-Mart special. I later ended up with a Sako L57 that was rebarrelled to 7mm-08 and it is my deer rifle of choice. 139gr Interlocks or 150gr TTSX.
Ron is the best! Great video guys.
Ron actually has a really good Washington state/Idaho accent. JVB has the very traditional Utah/mountain west/we use to call it the morman mountain accent. I love regional accents
He is a Mormon so makes sense
Love the pod cast
thanks!
I love my old 270. Are the new "modern" cartridges better? Sure, they are, but are they that much been? Nope.
Great job, 100% on, and entertaining with history as well
Much appreciated!
I loved this episode, I was wondering if you could have the same conversation about shooting deer in New Hampshire and Maine habitats. In certain situations you may have an opportunity up to 250 yards but most of the time opportunities are anywhere from 20 yards to 100 yards at a Whitetail. Running deer and thick brush can often be an issue with harvesting a deer as well. I would love to hear about your cartridge selection and bullet design and composition for these parameters, thank you.
Believe it or not, the chamber spec of the 7mm Rem Mag is slightly tighter than the 7mm PRC. The shorter neck of the 7mm Rem Mag is less of a disadvantage since it has a more advanced chamber than the 280AI to align the bullet. The chamber of the Rem Mag has a section of tight freebore (a tube only 0.0005" larger than the bullet) before the taper into the rifling. If the bullet is loaded long enough to have the shank in the freebore, it will be precisely aligned with the bore. This helps with accuracy. The 280AI just has a taper into the rifling and depends on the shoulder and neck to align the bullet with the bore. It has a little more slop and might take a little more tuning to get the best accuracy.
Thanks for giving the 308 some credit. I never liked it until I got one. Browning A Bolt 2 308, 3.5 x 10 vx3 shooting 150 grain Interlock, American Whitetail load. Every shot I’ve had has been 200 yards or less. I have harvested around 20 deer with this combo. Have seen every Deer drop. All pass through shots. I hunt Midwest Whitetails. As you said, cheap and available ammo. I’m going to start running a suppressor, thanks for turning me on to Silencer Central. I’m going to look at the Xbolt 2 SPR 308 with a 18” barrel. What are your thoughts on this rifle. Love You’re and Ron’s channels.
308 is such a great cartrigde because its not really good in anything ;) For every situation there definitelly exists a cartrigde that will be way better for the job. BUT exactly this is the reason why i love the 308. It will not shine in any specific situation BUT it will get the job done. It´s great because its average in about everything :)
That's a terrific rifle!
I’m behind on podcasts but you guys didn’t help me at all with this one. I have my first hunt west of the MS in November. Had it narrowed down to my 270, 136 grain terminal ascents and a 7mm-08 with 120 grain ttsx’s. Looks like they’re both on the list 😂
The one you own?
But I like 2506
Love my town, while dropping the lady off at the Dr.s office this morning, my 4yrld yells "BUC!" from the backseat. I look up to see a huge bodied Muley grazing on side of the st.
As an Eastern hunter. I found that original Model 7 REM in 7-08 was the most deadly rifle I ever owned. It was so light and fast to the shoulder even a 94 couldn’t beat it. I had an oversized 4-12 Leupold on it and it was still under 7 pounds. It wasn’t a tack driver because of the thin barrel at 18 inches but it did 3 inches and better. But overall it was pretty much the deadliest rifle I’ve ever owned. I went on a drive with it and with 3 shots I dropped 3 whitetails 2 dropped in their tracks and the last went 25 feet.
71+ year old FUD here. Been hunting over 60 years. Started hand loading for a 1903 Springfield with a one-at-a-time Lee Loader when I was 15 or 16 years old. On my central Kansas farm I could have a shot at 50 yards in creek bottom timber or 400 yards across a bean field, but I would never take a shot that long. In the last 50 years I’ve killed more deer with my Ruger 77 270 Winchester than with any other rifle I own so I suppose I could say that’s my favorite. I use a common old Hornady 150 grain spire point in my hand loads at around 2850 fps. Some years I got several deer, some years none! I can only remember shooting a couple of deer at much past 300 yards. Average probably 150. The only time I ever used a tree stand was in muzzle loader only season and that scared me to death! I see a bunch of people writing that all we do out here is hunt from tree stands and that’s pure BS! We can have those long shots across the big pasture canyons in the Flint Hills or the Smoky Hills in the area where I reside. Sure no tree stand shooting in those places. You’ve got to walk and spot. I do have several other rifles that I pull out once in a while just for the enjoyment of shooting something different. 336 Marlin 35 Remington, Savage 99 300 Savage, ‘98 Mauser action built rifles in both 308 Winchester and 35 Whelen. Also 6.5x55 Swede and 7x57 Mauser. They’ve all worked for me and my hunting style. Variety is the spice of life. Happy hunting boys and girls!
Kudos for 300 Savage. Just tripled the number of rounds in storage. Hard to find.
Great show as always!
The key is being westerners. I was able to visit out there and wow. I get why they want bc, fragmenting bullets etc.
I live in the south. I have shot a 280 rem a long time. I can buy 280AI ammo locally. I live in a small town. Even find the 280AI rifle. I just went to a 280AI. A Xbolt Speed Long Range 280AI. I have a 1@8 twist 26-inch barrel. I am working on load development on heavier bullets. A Hornady ELD X 175 gr. And a ELD M 180 gr. I have several friends shooting one. First 280AI I ever owned was a Kimber 84L 280AI hunter. I didn't even hunt with it. I sold it before season. Wasn't a fan of it.
The 6.8 western is so cool, but they can't give it away here in indiana. In fact, the local gunshop I visit has about 10 boxes on the clearance rack for 15 a piece.
Holy Moly! what gunshop? I need to make a phone call!
Me too. In TX the guys at Cabelas say they don’t sell many Westerns or PRCs but I notice the 6.8 ammo does not stay on shelves when they put it out so somebody is buying it
@Molly8247 It does not help that I think the longest shot I've taken on a deer was within 100 yards here. You might get a shot across a beanfield, but if you hunt public, you are restricted to straight wall cartrages and slugs.
I have to throw in my vote here.Its not perfect for all people,but just for deer hunting,from the south to the big northwoods bucks,Ill take the '06.
What about a 25-06?
Some how the best deer cartridge in the world is always 100% overlooked.
One of my favs right next to my 270
Yep it's one of my favorites for sure.
Just bought one in February. I'm really hoping I enjoy it.
Awesome cartridge for pronghorn, mulies and whitetails. I watched a buddy kill a 173” mulie in Wyoming at a touch over 325 lasered yards using 120 partitions. The buck went 50 yards forward and 10 yards backwards before it fell over.
🤠 In Parts of The Country Where Your Shots Are Shorter, a "Short Action Cartridge" Makes The Most Sense! If You Are Only Hunting Whitetail Deer in Those States, Then I Would Go With a 7mm-08! If Moose and Other Bigger Critters Are Also Available (Like Maine or Minnesota), Then I Would Pick The 308 Winchester! If Factory Ammunition Availability is The Main Concern (Why Ron Picked The 308 Over The 7mm-08) Out West, Then I Would Use That Same Logic To Pick The 270 Winchester Over The 280 AI! 👨⚖️
I used a 62 grain federal fusion 223 out of an 18” Jp enterprise barrel. Took a high shoulder shot on an 8 point blew thru both shoulders. Did a flip and died immediately in its track. There was no blood shot meat. No bad tasting meat from adrenaline because it didn’t run. And very minimum meat damage. Would I hunt like that every time no I just used it because I had an optic. The ar platform sucks to carry around. So if you use 223 I would think it’s a great cartridge if you take that specific shot with a tough bullet but I wouldn’t shoot heart and lung doubt you’ll even get a blood trail. There was hardly any blood.
Great video. Here's a question for both of you. I already have a Model 700 in 280 Remington that shoots 140 Accubonds right at 2965 FPS and I get 3/4" or better groups. Do you think it is worth moving up to a 280 AI while still shooting 140 Accubonds or is the move only worth it if I shoot at least 150 grain bullets?
To me you’ve got all you need
@@mmorris6341 I tend to agree.
I like my old stainless mini 14.. I like my old remington bdl 270
From pronghorns to pachyderms, the 7x57!
That's a super classy cartridge!
You Big Sky folks need to come here to the highly claustrophobic eastern dense woods where a long shot is stretching your arm out a little with a good 6" knife... For the out of reach ones, I use a 20" SS Mod 7 in 308 with 165 Gr Partitions kuz we got Big black bears around here, too, and you need enough boolit to settle arguments with them, too. At 2650 MV, and 2.75" hi at 100 yards, it is a direct hold to 250 yards and a 6" holdover at 300. Beyond that, the boolit drops below 2000 f/s, so reliable expansion on a soft deer gets 'iffy'. For those galactic distance long shots I use a regular 280 rem with 140 gr Partitions at 3000 MV. Worx for me. I only hunt live game with Nosler Partitions kuz they wont blow up on Bro Bear at 5 feet. You gotta git Thru all that hair, hide, fat, muscle and bone to mess up the plumbing in the boiler room! THAT shot will be head-on! Eat Meat. Dunt git ET git'n it!!
9.3x62 for everything, definitely a one world cartridge
Ive left the 7 mag the 06 the model7 in708 and a bunch of others for the 303 savage in a 120 year old model 1899 take down
The thuttythutty is its equal.with the new leverevalution powder thi is a true 250 yd cartridge.i know that there are more powerful flatter cartridges but for nm mulies in the pinon/juniper hills the 303 or 3030 are perfect
See now I'm not in there, because you just said about the availability of 708 rifles and ammunition. Can find them all day long in Pennsylvania. No matter where you go there's 708
Best (And Favorite) Deer Hunting Cartridges, with Ron Spomer
If .25-06 is not on the list then you don't have deer hunting cartridges.
Love my kimber mt ascent in 308 but it in the 280 ai would be about perfect
I just had a barrel cut for 284 win. Remington 700 ADL . Sweet rifle
Ill stick with my 30-06
Today Creedoor is a Psychiatric facility in disrepair in Queens NY on the Nassau Long-island border.
Longest shot growing up in Ohio was 110 yards. Longest in Colorado was 242 yards.
i don’t think it’s really harder to find rifles or ammo in 7mm-08, now that we have those new fangled internets. for my daughter’s 18th, i got get an X-bolt Hunter with 4 boxes of ammo - 2x Hornady Whitetail & 2x Superformance CX. Had no trouble finding any of it.
Maybe in the US but they don´t ship ammo in europe. This means you can buy it on the internet but you have to appear in person to collect it. This sucks. Especially because i wait since 2 month that 150 grainer in FMJ (for training) in 308 become availiable again. All shops have this "shitty" 180 grainers (I guess because nobody buys them). All hunting ammo is still available BUT i have a "problem" with training when a single shot costs me 4 bucks. For hunting perfect BUT for the range i WANT my cheap FMJs ;)
I love my seven and I'm gonna wait and in North Central Pennsylvania. I don't have a problem finding or looking for 708 because I reload and I already have all the brass and powder and bolts that I need for the rest of my life 59 years old plus part of my son's life. One of my my son's lives. I have two sons.😅
Not a better duo to listen to in the world of firearm knowledge!
270 win hands down. Stop it with all the new cartridge and just confirm it.
300 yds and under, there are so many great options to discuss in one episode. Over 300yds your looking at 243, maybe a 260 Rem, 25-06, 280, 280AI and the short mags in 6mm, 6.5, 270/6.8, and 280/7mm cartridges.
Sorry Ron, if you're wanting a 300 yd mpbr, you're not going to get it from a 308. It and the 7-08 are plenty accurate to reach out and do the job, but you're going to need to know your distance and trajectory.
Richie at High Tech Customs in Colorado Springs is a .284 kind of guy. Builds great guns!
great recommendation. thanks!
In Grizzly country I would consider 30-06 or 7mm rem mag.
I love it when they say you can find ammo in any hardware store. In what states can you buy ammo in a hardware store? Not around here. I wish.
Pretty much every True Value and local hardware stores I've been to in the west have had ammunition...
Mo and NC you can. Even in Wally World, although selection is limited there at some stores.
25-06 is my favorite
You're always a good time to watch you and you do so well
Ok
Just comes down to personal preference
Would like a higher quality video, says only 480p is available
Come on Ron. We all know it’s the 30-06.
🤠 SO, TO SUM UP THE VIDEO, THE 7MM-08, 284 WINCHESTER, AND 280 AI DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AVAILABLITY! ☹️ SO, FOR CLOSE RANGE, THE 308 WINCHESTER! AND, AT DISTANCE, THE 270 WINCHESTER! 🤑
Serious question, How much are slack tolerances improved in an older with 'close enough' chambering by fire forming cases and only neck sizing on reloading?
Quite a lot! That's one reason handloading traditionally resulted in much-improved accuracy.
Compare the difference between the 6.5 prc and 270. So very close.
Out of the muzzle maybe after that not as much.
To ethical hunting distances they are literally the same. If you don't believe me look up the Hornady Precision Hunter for each. There is 1 inch difference in drop at 500 yds.
Any one who compares a 280 AI reload to a 7 mag properly loaded and says it’s similar performance is off their rockers. Fully formed cases. Bullets seated out. 7 rem mag has more case capacity by a long shot. When I am running a 195gn Berger in my 7 mag, having well over 70 grains of powder in it and still hear air in the case. No way a 280 ai will get even close to that performance.
Where’s the 30-06? That doesn’t work anymore???
270 Weatherby mags another one that I wouldn’t discount either
30-06 160 ttsx 2850. Does it all. Even the 150 and 130 will dust a moose 280 ai isn’t close to 7mm rem mag REM mag crushes the280 ai.
25-06
So many choices. Whatever you decide on make sure you can afford the ammunition.
I would’ve sworn 25-06 would’ve been brought up in this video :/
do ya still think a 338 going 1000 fps is a good cartridge for Africa Ron
why would it be going only 1000fps?
@m444ss Subsonic 8.6blk absolutely love mind.
@@m444ss watch his channel 8.6 blackout
big surprise....they both love 7mms! 😂
6CM
I actually gave a disgusted sigh when Ron said 308. I'll take a 270
264 win mag.
👍👍👍
And the 708 has less recoil than 308
🤠 For Those of Us Who Live Out West, The Bigger Bucks and Bulls Often Live At Higher Elevations! At Those Higher Elevations, a 1 in 10 Twist 270 Winchester Will Stabalize Those Heavier and Higher B.C. Bullets (Up to 180 grain Bonded Bullets) If You Reload? Thus, The 270 Winchester Doesn't Need To Take a "Back Seat" To Either The 280 AI or 30-06! 😮