A Round In The Chamber? (John's Briefs with Marc Victor) | Active Self Protection Extra
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- Опубликовано: 30 авг 2018
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Attitude. Skills. Plan.
(music in the outro courtesy of Bensound at www.bensound.com)
Chambered 11 years Glock 🤣
Hopefully not the same round!
Active Self Protection Extra lol, great response🤣
Chambered for 45 years. No issues.
Your Pal Ever heard of indexing your weapon pal? 11 years and I bet his pencil is just fine.
@@dattape2828 jackass!
This is a perfect example of how to conduct a civil discussion regarding different points of view regarding guns, etc. There wasn't any testosterone filled statements or attitudes. Good job!
this is how you make progress
Imagine having this with a Liberal. They wouldn't last 2 seconds without getting crzy
Oh sure, it was a it was a good conversation and fair. Fair. The attorney, comma unlike I expected, is completely wrong. His analogies are just idiotic and they are based off of the fact that a professional made a mistake and now that is the baseline for civilians. If this is true And we were not allowed to carry one in the pipe, comma that will cost lives of intelligent legend gun handlers. Stupidity at its finest It is to carry a weapon and attempt to rack it in an adrenaline state.
@@mattmodena8299 That is an opinion that I agree with AND it is backed up by significant evidence. It is, however, still an opinion.
I thought the attorney made some good points. For example, I don't agree that it is legitimate that racking a slide for deterrence is a good idea since, if you have time to do that, you are probably illegally threatening or "brandishing", (depending where you are.) I do agree, though, that if it crosses your mind to carry on an empty chamber, and you are not willing to leave your gun at home in the safe that day, PLEASE carry with an empty chamber!
Also, the attorney probably knows that most modern handguns are equipped with many passive safeties AND designed to always be paired with modern holsters, but he may not be aware of how much that actually improves the safety of carrying in condition one. Unintentional discharges today are almost always the result of negligence. I can't even think of an actual "accidental" discharge with a modern pistol, either hypothetically , or in a real situation that isn't highly suspect (including the RCMP/ P-320 "incident"), I just included "almost" in case someone has. I would even guess that there is a higher rate of NDs with double action only revolvers than modern pistols due to a false sense of safety and the complacency it invites. (As i said- just a guess. Feel free to correct me if that is not true...)
I’m with Marc on this one. The statistics on negligent discharges are alarming and I think many people need to humble themselves and realize they are human and susceptible to mistakes. That being said, I do understand where John is coming from.
When it comes to topics like this I ask myself, what would a badguy prefer? 1. That I not carry a firearm. 2. If I do carry one, that I not be proficient with it. 3. If I carry it & I'm proficient with it, to not carry with a round in the chamber, because his gun will have one in the chamber. Knowing that, I'm going to do the opposite of what the badguy prefers, because when they decide to do evil, they make sure they're as ready as can be. So if he's got one in the chamber...well so will I, because like you say John, it is a race isn't it? Be the opposite of what the criminal element wants us to be.
Which includes being trained and capable, not just armed.
@@asmamiller Yep, that's why I included being proficient.
@@bassblaster162
Absolutely. You hit every. single. point. Best response I read.
@@asmamiller Thank you
Yeah I totally and completely disagree with the lawyer. Now, you should train with your firearm absolutely. But as Massad Ayoob and Ken Hackathorn say. Anyone that carries a gun without a round in the chamber is an idiot.
You don’t pick the time, the time picks you. One prepares for success. One worries about potential mistakes and prepares you for failure. Ok. Don’t wear your seatbelt and don’t chamber a round. Good luck with your well thought out plan. Good talk.
Bret Parker amen
@@THISSHOWNEEDSMORETITS so was Colonel Cooper. And he always said "carry in condition one".
Totally! When the time comes and you have to make a split second decision to pull out your tazer, you don’t have time to check to make sure it’s not your loaded Glock 17.
Bret Parker....Mic Drop and 👏 slow 👏 slow 👏
Please stop comparing sest beats to having a round in the chamber. It's idiotic.
This is the most helpful video you have ever put out, John! I’ve been a gun owner for about 3 years now and plan on starting to carry soon. I have been struggling with this question of whether to have one in the chamber or not. I would never have guessed that negligent discharge is a felony offense with mandatory prison time in AZ. That shocked me. I think I agree more with your libertarian lawyer friend. Thank you so much for this video!
They almost all get pled down to misdemeanors, in reality.
I think your seat belt analogy was the winner in the debate. I limit the risk of a negligent discharge by carrying a double action/single action pistol.
ND or AD were rare during the police revolver era but when Glocks became vogue the ND/AD shot through the roof. No pun intended. If someone thinks they require a 2.5 lb trigger to hit anything, they better spend the money on practice than on gadgets to "make them shoot better".
I have a zero percent chance of an ND because I don't finger fuck my gun.
It lives in its holster.
The seatbelt analogy was not well-thought out. Not wearing a seatbelt as a driver can get others killed rather easily, since a driver flying through a windscreen or even bumping their head and losing consciousness can get the passengers and other drivers/pedestrians in the path of danger or death. This is a frequent occurrence, so that analogy was plain wrong and the probability is much higher of getting in a car accident than having to use or accidentally discharge a firearm.
@@LuvBorderCollies No stock striker fired gun designed for duty or carry comes from the factory with a 2.5lb trigger. Those increases in accidents show a lack of training, not a problem with gear. If you are reliant on ANYTHING to prevent you from having an ND other than your safe handling of firearms, whether that be a heavy trigger or a manual safety, it is just a crutch.
8:55 John's look to the camera when Mark mentions how "highly trained" the atf agent was, as if to ask us "should I bust this man's bubble?"
"Try to avoid handling the gun administratively outside of it's holster." Great advice! Glad I listened to this vid again.
Between your review of holsters and your prior discussions about leaving the weapon holstered I have upgraded my holster and not removed my firearm from the holster except for practice and cleaning. I used to remove it daily when storing in my bedside safe and also when in my vehicle. I believe that the changes I made have greatly reduced my likelihood of experiencing a negligent discharge.
Awesome. When I made those changes I think it also decreased the chances of a negligent discharge. Glad you see that difference too!
Hear! Hear!
Ya know, when I first saw the title "John's Briefs" I wasn't sure if he should be sharing that with all of us, but I'm sure glad he did! Thanks for baring it all, John! Keep up the mission, Brother!
This debate is great and a pleasure to watch
John, you are performing a great public service with this video. We carriers tend to be unrealistic about where the threat to us and our families' future is likely to come from. The only thing stopping the DA from filing felony-strike charges on a self-defending person is... absolutely nothing at all.
Great video. I’m on the carry with a round chambered team but man is that scary to think about going to prison for a felony for a negligent discharge in your own home with no one being injured. I’ve never had a negligent discharge but I know it happens. 1 instant of carelessness can destroy lives (the shooters’ & the unintended victims’).
Truth! It isn't often charged that way but it can be, so care is required.
Great segment John! Even a simple topic like this has nuance and subtlety. I thought this was a really effective way to highlight the motivation, consequences and *requirements* of chambered carry. I'm looking forward to similar videos for other topics!
Great discussion! I love Marc Victor and have watched his videos for years. And you as well John! So it's amazing to find you two talking here, and about a very important issue. Great to hear both sides. Thanks to both of you as always.
Amen to that! You guys rock.
I know this video is 2+ yrs old, but I'm new here and like the discussion and differences of opinion. Its an amazing display of two guys having a different view but still respecting one another as human beings should.
Thanks for the encouragement!
I see both points. I choose to carry with one on the chamber because I know how to carry it that way.
Solid!
Holy balls. Mandatory prison time for an ND? That blows my mind. I live in CT and I'm now terrified to even look up what the law is on that here. Granted, I haven't(yet) had an ND, but it's just one of those things that is almost inevitable the longer you own and use guns.
Extremely valuable information from both. Thank you gentlemen
These videos are pretty good. Thanks for making them.
absolutely loved this vid and hope this is continually linked in many of your videos in the future. Thank you soooo much John for your work
You are very welcome!
Excellent video! I will carry chambered and train! Many thanks to both of you for the reasonable, informed and enlightened discussion.
Glad to help!
Great thoughts on both sides. Enjoy these educational videos. Thanks
I love this one!!! Great video, John!
I love this man's briefs. They fit so well for my lifestyle.
Fantastic nuanced discussion on a tricky topic. Thanks!
This was a great conversation, and I am grateful for you efforts John and Marc. What I am taking away from it is that we should all be diligent and routinely practice and train with our firearms. Like a boy scout, be prepared! Be alert and be prepared.
Great takeaway.
Great points! Love these videos!
I agree with John, but love this attorney. I’m working through all the videos with him. Really stellar content!
Marc is great.
This is so excellent on a dozen levels! Thanks.
It may not seem like it but so many of our decisions are MATH lol but disguised in a Tactics wrapper.
Risk Stratification is the technical term.
The risk of accidentally discharging vs. The risk of not having a chance/training to chamver
*A robber approaches you knife drawn* "give me all your money" he says. "Ok but give me a sec to chamber a round" Glock 29 10mm chambered all day.
@@papimaximus95 yeah ill just flash my pistol at any suspicious person walking by; that's not illegal at all.
Papi Maximus If you can do that, why carry?
TheAllSeeingTruth get real.
Most people misapply the Tueller Drill but this is literally the purpose of it. Try it and see how wrong you are, condition 3 people.
Also, what, do you honestly believe the guy's example was a perp approaching you with a knife in plain view from a hundred feet? Then no shit he'd have time to draw and aim.
Your Pal is offended by people carrying one in the chamber lol
I Love this discussion!
Love the videos, keep up the good work!!
Great video. Remember the lawyer sees the problems after the person has been charged so his perspective is somewhat different. I carry with one in the chamber but I also carry a double action single action pistil (HK P30 sks) with a manual safety. That said I still catch a lot of grief for having a Manual safety. I make no apologies because I’ve carried pistols with a manual safety for over 30 years. Thanks for posting this excellent video.
Great discussion.
Great discussion!
Two rules of fire arm handling, 1. Treat every fire arm as if it's loaded. 2. Never point a fire arm at anything you don't intend to destroy.
And biggest keep your finger off trigger.
Taking self defense advice from an attorney is like taking legal advice from a sovereign citizen.
Grouchy Ed BEST COMMENT AWARD 🥇 This made me lol.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AM I BEING DETAINED?!?!
Active Self Protection Extra Not if you’re just traveling through from point A to point B🤣
I DO NOT CONSENT!! I DO NOT CONSENT!!!!
Great points John and thanks for the debate/discussion.
Glad to help.
I have seen Marines carrying Condition 3 because of the same reasons . So commanders don’t even trust their Marines to carry a chambered weapon. That is crazy!
Seems insane to me. If a Marine can't be trusted, then they shouldn't wear the EGA.
I have seen Marines impregnate a bowling ball.
On the whole most commanders in the military treat the rank and file like a bunch of 8 year olds.
By and large - on the average - wearing the seatbelt all the time is the most prudent thing to do. BUT, drive defensively because everybody else on the road has driving skills that are suspect at best. Focus! I agree, John, with your analogy.
What if you carry a revolver? A round is always in the chamber.
To fire that revolver, you either have to take a LONG pull on the trigger to fire it Double Action (safer), or manually cock the hammer back to get a lighter pull and fire Single Action. Hammerless revolvers can only be fired Double Action (safer). Newer revolvers have floating firing pins that are blocked until the trigger is pulled (safer). Older revolvers have firing pins fixed to the hammer that strike the primer directly (less safe). Therefore, cowboys carrying Single Action revolvers with fixed firing pins used to keep an empty chamber under their hammers. Legend said some kept a rolled up bill in that empty chamber. So, it's probably safe to carry a round under the hammer in most new late-model Double Action revolvers with firing pin safeties. My department did. Probably not a good idea to keep a round under the hammer with most authentic Single Action revolvers with firing pins fixed to the hammer. :)
ND/AD in the police revolver era were very rare and when they did it was always operator error like quick drawing against Matt Dillon on TV forgetting your S&W M10 was loaded. True story but wasn't me.
LuvBorderCollies I have an M10! I love that piece! My daughter loves it too! Her favorite pistol to shoot. Solidly built, and with +P a legitimate defensive weapon. Stainless steel too! When I bring that out at the range, everyone stops by to look or try it out! :)
smokey spice Department of State Police carried with a round under the hammer. Of course these were newer Smith and Wesson revolver models with the locking floating firing pin. Firing pin was locked until the trigger was pulled. And training was very rigorous. :)
Old Single-Action “cowboy” revolvers, yea, empty chamber under that hammer.
Newer revolvers...? Depends on make, model, action, and level of expertise/training of the shooter. :)
Glenn Douglas My issue M10 was one whose sights were spot on perfect. So I did some unauthorized stuff to it and used it for competition duty gun matches as well as everyday patrol. Sad day when told we had to trade in our M10's for Glocks. It got worse when we couldn't buy our issue M10. :(
Great discussion. I carry with a round in the chamber, but because I typically carry in a belly band holster I do have to administratively handle more than I’d like (taking firearm into and out of holster). For this reason I do carry with a thumb safety activated.
Have a process, do what you can to minimize the risk, and be disciplined. Analyze your process and evaluate it.
I think mistakes get made when people are just being casual and not affording the respect to the firearm that it deserves
I used to never carry a round in the chamber but now do because of John's videos !
I've seen too many of John's videos where things go south, quickly, without a round in the chamber.
I used to not wear a seatbelt but have been doing so for quite awhile now.
Be careful while covering your ASP.
Thank you both for having a discussion that should be shared. I think both ends of the spectrum should be analyzed. Yes in most intellectuals have conversation and heart both sides even with different opinions. Winning a debate is only done with a good knowledge of the opposed position.
John you won that debate hands down!!
I don't think so.
@@natalya7004 congratulation, you are the proud owner of an opinion.
@@tnttim9 Thank you, that's exactly what I'm talking about 👍
This debate wasn’t really set up properly to have a winner, because the attorney is correct from a legal perspective about what’s best, and John was correct as a firearms instructor about which is best, thus the viewer needs to decide which to prioritise: the legal repercussions of an accidental discharge or the repercussions of being unprepared to survive in a self-defence encounter. That’s what I gleaned from the discussion.
Great points from both sides. Really good video.
Thanks!
I only put on my seatbelt right before a car accident happens...
Virak Chhang well said my friend
I've had people tell me that and they were serious! Being in and witnessing crashes you better be quick since they happen in a fraction of a second like 1/10th.
2nd Best Comment Award. Followed by the taking gun advice from a lawyer is like taking legal advice from a sovereign citizen 🤣🤣
Lmao
You missed the point
John, after watching just about every ASP video over the past year and have been a lawful CCW holder in Michigan for almost 10yrs. I would like to ask some questions regarding possible future videos. I also would like to state because of your videos I have signed up with FLP this week. I Haven’t gave that much thought to the financial part of being a CCW holder before your videos. So thank you for that! I feel much better knowing I’m protected if I’m in a bad situation. In response to this video to carrying a round in the chamber. I always carry a round in the chamber, I have no kids, single, but however as a FLP member I would love to hear from them what to do in the unfortunate event of a negligent discharge. I feel I have a good holster, extremely aware of how to handle my firearm, good training and my holster is with a complete cover of the trigger. I always have my firearm on my person. This video makes me think of what to do in the event something happens like my firearm accidentally discharges and nobody was hurt... or maybe unfortunately someone accidentally got hurt. What does FLP recommend? Do I call the police and state I had a ND if nobody was around or hurt or do I just not say nothing? I don’t want to end up in jail and ruing my life due to some accident like i accidentally dropped my firearm and accidentally and there was a ND. But I would like to do the right thing. Would love to hear from the legal team at FLP on what to do. I appreciate the lessons you give and I learn from them all. If you can address this question I would greatly appreciate it. Keep up the good work and God bless John!
A very thoughtful discussion thank you for sharing it.
This risk balancing approach (which I generally agree with) is why I carry a Beretta 92. I can carry with a round in the chamber and the safety engaged so that it is not possible for an errant finger or clothing to discharge the firearm. But I can bring it to full fireable status with one hand (with either hand) during the draw stroke with no measurable loss of speed. I have trained thousands of hours on the draw stroke to make sure that disengaging the safety is a reflex action during the draw stroke and I still have a long first double action stroke as an additional safety measure. I can generally make the one point5 second draw to first shot standard discussed on the channel.
I have been given no end of grief for this approach, especially by Glock advocates, but it allows me to go about my entire day armed but nearly wholly eliminating the risk of a negligent discharge. It’s never 100% but it is reduced.
I liken in my situation to the mortar crew in World War Two who instead of carrying the full M1 Garand rifle carried the intermediate cartridge firing M1 carbine. While they were slightly less capable of fighting as infantry they were more capable of performing the original function of being a mortar crew.
I am more capable of carrying out my essential function supporting my family going about my day but still being armed.
Chambered! Work to change that stupid law in Arizona! Learn to pay attention when doing mundane tasks with a weapon.
awesome chat about this!!
damn i love ASP so much. y'all are awesome. learning so much
Thanks!
Great video. Reasonable people with rational discussion and disagreement. So rare....Here is what I got from it: If your situation is set where you don't do much administrative handling - one in the chamber can be low risk because of less opportunity of a negligent discharge. If you have a lot of handling - more chance of negligent discharge and maybe one in the chamber bumps up the risk beyond what you feel is acceptable for your situation. I had not looked at things from this perspective before. I carry with one in the chamber and very minimal handling, so the risk is acceptable for me.
This is good information and made me look up the law in my state. ND or AD is a misdemeanor in my state. If you have a carry license then your license is suspended for 6 months also. That’s why I love these videos because it makes me think of situations I might not normally think of and do some research. Knowledge is power.
I would love to know what state thx
The lawyer made a great point about seat belts... Makes u think 🤔... great discussion
Glad to hear this gentleman validate how I’ve been thinking about this. I rack a round in the rare occasion that I’m going somewhere sketchy.
Man, please don't do that. Go watch the main channel.
@@ASPextra Thanks for your passion about the topic of self defense and all of the great videos! I have listened to and understand the various arguments for keeping one chambered. After much consideration I have come to decision that I'm not comfortable carrying chambered most of the time so would rather carry unchambered than not carry at all. Perhaps my perspective will change in the future after watching more of your great content :)
no way!!! thats awsome!!!
Great discussion guys and you both made valid points. Nice to see two people having a rational discussion on a hot topic.
Thanks Mike!
Well done with great information both ways.... I carry a revolver with a full cylinder 99% of the time.. I would really have to make a very serious mistake to have a discharge.. It can happen to the very best of the most highly trained, that is true.... Does make one stop and rethink about how you handle and carry your firearm..
If you can’t handle a loaded gun safely, you probably don’t need a gun.
He is awesome. He would definitely get my business if I was in Arizona and had any issue where I needed a lawyer.
Very informative. Good points but I agree more with John.
I didn't carry chambered the first year of EDC'ing. A huge impact (not all) in changing my mind was your channel John. Seeing so many bad endings where the good guys life is taken while trying to rack it is hard not to think of every day out in our crazy world. I have trained and have a great holster so my guns been chambered weeks on end without fear of misfire. My brother Nathan was in the 101st airborne and a fellow soldier racked the same round multiple times over a few days or week and the round discharged after racking the weapon. He was very close to hitting one of his mates but didn't. I've only racked the same round twice but after my brother told me that i will always rotate the first bullet. RIP Nathan,thanks for the stories.
Just make sure to minimize administrative handling so that you don't inadvertently discharge your firearm and run into the problems Marc talks about!
Very good exchange.
It seems to me that the "two groups" approach is perfect.
Of course, the ultimate solution to being in group two, is get trained so you're in group one.
This was a very enlightening discussion. I was always dominantly a "one in the chamber" guy, but the qualifiers are important. I think the final conclusion was to carry how it works best for you after get training, and then don't have a negligent discharge -- i.e. cover your ASP physically, but also legally and morally.
I think that's a good summary!
John my man you're looking great! (No homo) lol
Chambered, 4 months, Glock. Nothing like a great debate/discussion, between 2 extremely knowledgeable individuals, from differing viewpoints. Well done Brother John, always super informative. And I fully agree with you on this one. Jesus Bless and Keep You And Yours Always!!
Edit-Train so you are skilled! Be responsible for your weapon and self defense ability.
Sorry, second edit-Don’t go in a restaurant or location that doesn’t allow concealed carry. Go spend your money to support a separate restaurant or store that does allow you to protect yourself as a conceal carrier.
Discard the serpa and negligent discharges go down.
Truth.
The only time I ever had an accidental discharge was when I racked the slide on a 32acp pocket pistol. It was a true AD; in that my finger was not on the trigger. The frame had cracked after a few hundred rounds and the sear no longer engaged. Thankfully, growing up near a popular gun store, I heard tons of stories about stuck firing pins, broken extractors and soft primers letting off on slide drop, so the errant round or two went through the target. A few years ago Sig Sauer had trouble with a few pistols dropping the hammer when the safety was engaged. This shows the importance of always pointing in a safe direction during handling and manipulation. All the training in the world won't protect against equipment failure.
For what it's worth, the above anecdote is another reason to carry with a round in the chamber.
I've always trained myself that all the guns I own have a rd. chambered. It's all about training
Good points on both sides. My perspective is to dry fire practice weekly and live fire at least monthly. John recommends gun owners who plan to carry a pistol to conduct professional, paid training at least yearly. I agree, AD/ND is far less likely to occur if you are carrying in a smart, safe, holstered manner.
"It CAN happen to you"! Words of wisdom and keep a round chambered.
I've always been a round in the chamber guy. But hearing the logic of a trade off makes sense to me. I'm more open to the idea of someone carrying empty if it's with that logic. Now I'm still gonna carry hot everyday. But I can get behind the logic of a trade off
Nice discussion. I think with a proper holster and avoidance of unnecessary handling really reduces the chance of negligent discharge as John suggests. Arm up in the morning with the gun and holster as a unit. Disarm in the evening the same way. And have a GOOD QUALITY holster.
You gotta love and hate attorneys! Marc makes SOLID points here, at least for Arizona and places where similar laws/regulations exists.
John, I think that the attorney very capably made this point: Carrying C1 is not a black & white issue.
We in the gun community do a disservice by blindly repeating goofy phrases like:
* A C3 gun is as useless as a brick/stapler/no gun at all.
* If you don't carry C1, you shouldn't carry at all.
* If you don't carry C1, you need more training.
* If you don't carry C1, you are afraid of your gun.
* C3 is the same as putting your seatbelt on before a car wreck.
* Etc.
All bunk!
They are silly phrases that get repeated over and over because they sound cool, but when you break them down they make little sense. Does anyone really want to duel me and my C3 G19, armed with your Swingline stapler? I didn't think so.
But here is where the rabidness of this issue does grave harm! We are surrounded by newbies or elderly, gun carriers who have little practice or training beyonds getting their license to carry. Our community humiliates them into carrying in a way that they shouldn't be carrying. And who gets to decide how much training people should have? I don't recall the Second Amendment saying anything about it.
Lastly, there are thousands of people who have physical injuries that make carrying C1 reckless. I'm blind in 1 eye, and my right hand is injured and it cannot hold a gun - it has 50% "sensation," which means that it can't tell if it is touching a dime, or a brick. Trust me, you don't want to be in the stall next to me in a truckstop restroom with a C1 gun!
I wish rational minds could retire this tired issue.
There are three times that the gun should be out of the holster, in my opinion: to fire (range or defense), for service (cleaning, etc), or dry fire (if no second weapon is available, and only after the gun is VERIFIED to be unloaded [check the mag, check the chamber, leave the ammo in another room). EXCELLENT discussions, guys!
My nephew is still alive after being t-boned while responding to a fire call...because he DIDN'T have on a seatbelts. But, anecdotal cases aren't necessarily indicative of your overall odds... same with chambered rounds...awesome video!
Would have liked to hear Marc's thoughts on revolvers and striker-fire with a round in the chamber with a thumb safety.
There are handguns where the safety can be kept on while putting a round in the chamber, so basically it can be kept on at all times to prevent a negligent discharge.
Just seen this video it's older but glad they are out there thanks I have a round in the chamber in all three and Evey gun in my house with safety off safety will get you killed but when you do this remember perfect practice makes perfect
I think a great compromise is carry with a round in the chamber with a gun that has a manual safety. If you practice sweeping off the safety when you practice your draw and dry fire it becomes muscle memory. If you're not willing to practice you might be safer with pepper spray. Can you legally carry and should you carry may have two different answers.
I hear that. I see a lot of people, even trained people, bobble the manual safety at times on presentation. So if you carry a manual safety gun, make sure the safety is easy for you to actuate and you do it so much you can't get it wrong!
I'm on the last step of becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen, just have to wait for my swearing in ceremony now. I'm also a Libertarian so I really appreciate the way you both approached and discussed this subject. Great video!
Very cool! Congratulations!
@@ASPextra Thank you! I'm proud to be swearing an oath to the Constitution of this great nation. A little sad to denounce my allegiance to my home country but they (Peru) don't allow dual citizenship so I made my choice.
The more I watch these, the happier I am I signed up for FLP the day I took my LTC course
I ALWAYS keep a round in the chamber! When milliseconds count, you better take advantage of them!
Living in CT and being subjected to strict gun laws I find it interesting that a negligent discharge of a firearm (or an unlawful discharge of a firearm whether intentional, negligent or careless at it states in CT ruling) is a class C misdemeanor and not a felony like for you guys in Arizona and it doesn’t mean someone will loose their right to a firearm. I would have thought CT would be equally as strict as a free state like Arizona.
Excellent advice either way. Hadn't thought about a novice carrier, and we all were at one time. I can see that point but everyone should get more training. Except that not everyone will. And the laws in your state are a big factor as well.
Hi John. Just stumbled upon this video. great conversation. So, I agree with you in that I prefer to keep a round chambered and I am ALWAYS highly conscience of that fact so I feel I am safe BUT, interesting thing, when I was deployed to Bosnia as part of SFOR, we were NEVER allowed to chamber a round unless instructed by our commander, LT, SGT, etc meaning they would have to determine that things had escalated to that point and instructed us to do so. In my entire year there, I personally ever had a round chambered a grand total of 3 times. Granted, peace keeping, etc but even the US army was concerned about accidental discharge.
I think that is mostly because the army is worried about liability and willing to have an acceptable casualty rate. My acceptable casualty rate is zero.
The more the weapon is handled the more chances something could go wrong. That is spot on. Keeping it in the holster as much as possible to minimize or even avoid administrative handling of the firearm when not at a hot range is excellent advice.
I feel the act of chambering a round Always has a slight chance of something going wrong -even if it is a freak failure within the gun itself and not anything the user did wrong. Add to this that every time a firearm is disassembled to do any work where the internal parts come out and then are put back together again there is a chance that maybe a spring or other part gets put back in the wrong way -such as backwards/misaligned/bent or whatever. Some designs are better than others when it comes to this -but any mechanical device can fail eventually.
For example I recently swapped out many of the internal springs with newer Wolff springs in a soviet-era surplus Polish pistol and the work was extremely finicky. Removing the safety/decocking lever with its detent and spring to get at the firing pin and its spring before reassembly could conceivably intoduce a failure-mode where the firearm could possibly fire while simply chambering a round as it automatically decocks the hammer if the hammer-block portion of the safety/decocker piece was damaged or bent in such a way that the hammer did somehow contact the firing pin as it decocked.
That first time I tested chambering a round I knew I had to be extra-careful about this and my safe backstop -even more careful than usual since we are trained to ALWAYS be sure a weapon is pointed in a safe position when a round is chambered. Yes, there are necessary function checks that are performed every time a weapon is reassembled after cleaning or work has been done, but even those do no fully replicate the test of using a live round, like placing a pencil or wooden dowel in the barrel to test if the firing pin is moving into the chamber.. Many gun owners do not know how to do a proper function check, or maybe not exactly right on all the different gun types they own.
The infinitesimal chance of something going wrong mechanically within the inner workings of the firearm is just that much less infinitesimal than usual after such a reassembly. Gunsmiths often have special bullet sinks right at their work bench to aim the muzzle into when they do these tests, and they are theoretically trained professionals with more experience and knowledge of the inner workings of firearms than the typical gun owner.
I like how you are discussing a sensitive topic. The basic design of a gun is to fire a projectile. The problem is the gun does not control itself. The gun only fires when a cartridge is chambered. The responsibility, no matter how it fires, is on whoever has the gun in hand. Yes you should know the laws about gun use, and you should know that you are the one responsible for its use.
The ATF guy, that had the accidental discharge in his classroom has more than likely handled a firearm more than any other person in this forum. He likely had years, and years of experience. A person could even make the argument that the more you handle firearms, the more chance for you having an accidental discharge. The odds are NOT in your favor, in other words. For example: I, personally, train at least 2-4 days a week. I have my own pistol range at home, and I feel very confident in my gun handling skills. However, that kinda raises my odds of having an accidental discharge. But, I will say this... I STILL think that my odds are better than the person that "rarely" handles a firearm. In other words, if you only handle your gun once a year, then you are at an EXTREMELY high risk of having an accidental discharge. My rule of thumb is... Always handle your guns with "deliberate" motion. Handle your guns very robotically. In other words, move very slowly when reholstering, or unloading it. I catch myself holstering my gun wayyy too fast sometimes, because I've became so comfortable with handling it. This is the wrong thing to do. You should handle your gun very methodically, putting thought into every motion. In other words, handle it as if it had an exposed ignition button on the outside of it, kinda like a homemade bomb would have. You would for sure handle THAT with extreme caution! Be the same way with your firearms. The main thing is... Get some training!!! And then, practice, practice, practice. Don't be "that guy", that buys a gun, and puts one box of ammo through it, then thinks that he can easily be good enough to defend himself in a stressful life, or death situation, when the time arises. Unfortunately, there are a lot of you out there, with this mindset. Nobody buys a guitar, and sets it to the side, thinking that they can go up on stage and immediately play like Slash, on the spur of the moment, without ever practicing with their guitar. But, MOST people will do this with a firearm. That's insane!!! lol DO NOT carry a gun, until you can efficiently draw it from concealment, and quickly put shots on target. This isn't just a natural skill. It takes hours, and hours of practice.
I argued/debated a buddy who said there is no such thing as an accidental discharge. "Every accidental is actually a negligent discharge."
My real life counter argument was, I was shooting another buddies pistol at the range. I was following the Universal Firearm Safety rules and as I was pointing at the target, I was trying to feel the wall of the trigger. It ACCIDENTALLY discharged way before I intended it to, but it was in a safe, intentional manor.
It was your finger on the trigger and the pressure you applied that made the gun fire as it was designed to do. That's not an AD. ADs occur through no fault of the person handling the gun. In the vast majority of cases, they are due to mechanical failure or equipment malfunction. See this recent video we had on the main channel for an example of an actual AD: ruclips.net/video/nDDxVWvCG08/видео.html
I know someone who was in a serious head on with lap belts (older car) the internal damage nearly killed him but damaged his internal organs so badly he was crippled with pain permanently. He sued because it was discovered that GM knew these belts were dangerous in some conditions and won several hundred thousand (at least back in the 80's he ). Sometimes belts don't help and cause injuries.
John, I don't recall seeing any videos from you where the defender didn't have a round in the chamber. I would find these very helpful to see the real world implications.
Nevermind. Just did a search on the channel for "chambered" and found a ton of stuff. Thanks for all you do!
Chambered 24/7.
If you have to ask, "Should I with carry a round in the chamber?" I don't want you to carry with a round in the chamber.
I definitely agree negligent discharge is bad. How any particular individual handles that risk is open to personal choice. Whether it be (1) Never carry a round in the chamber. Or (2) Always carry a round in the chamber, but be so well trained and so careful that you never make unnecessary administrative errors when handling the gun. Or (3) Carry a round in the chamber only for specified conditions and specified circumstances. In any case owning a gun is no child's game. It's a serious consideration. The lives of people are on the line.