Well, starting diplomacy perks are quite useful to get. You can have free stats if you do eugenics or befriend have a strong neighbor/leige who doesn't like you(and they are even willing help you out with money if you go bankrupt as well as it kind of makes it easier to secure alliances with them).
Not only is Diplomacy possibly the best, but also the best starting characters are Diplomats, nothing better than starting a game as the Armenian principalities and after a few quick offers of vassalization you already have two kingdom titles ready to be made, also best tree to calm down your annoying needy vassals, 1st perk on the diplomat side and boom +100 to you, and you, and you, don't forget about force vassalization, it's just amazing for cleaning up the leftovers from realms you just abused into dissolution, or for getting alot of land in Africa, Siberia, orjust about anywhere with alot of small independent rulers, groomed to rule because who doesn't love extra skill points to your kids? +25 on offer vassalization sounds good to me, one more diplomacy for each level of prestige? Sign me up! Commision an epic to help bring up that family renown (and for rp purposes)? Sounds good to me. TL;DR Diplo tree is best and anyone who disagrees with me does Intrigue only to seduce their sister
Diplomacy is good for easily holding your realm together while making everyone love you It's pretty good but just kinda boring, especially when compared to the other lifestyles imo
I think the only fun diplomacy perk is the writing history one, that gives you renown and a book artifact every few years. And honestly, that one could be learning perk.
I like that one perk that gives you a ridiculous amount of opinion for gifting money to people. Dudes that hate your guts immediately adore you. Basically assures that if you have a lot of money you won’t get plotted against
Plus diplomacy in a lot of cases does intrigue better than intrigue itself, since it helps with agent acceptance, which is what matters for the important schemes
@@qwertyasdf4081 no you need to personally lead them so you need the martial first. What's s couple percentage gain versus hundreds to thousands per battle?
@@TheKillaShowno you do. You get prestigious per battle won. The prestige for raiding or winning a war with out you as the commander it like 1/10th what you get from leading the armies your self. 2k vs 4k battles give you about 1k prestige as the leader. The same battle with a different commander gives zero prestige.
Tbh not really as op as stewardship. Who needs people to love you when you alone make 80% of your realm's income and are so far ahead in tech that any revolts get stackwiped. Or just give people 100goldnand watch them love you.
@The_Yukki depends on the mods you have. There are mods that make civil wars a pain in the ass to deal with. So that tactic is quite useless (especially after a ruler dies). 100 gold also doesn't guarantee a non-involvement in a faction. Sometimes, you're just funding your future enemy with that strat. Better to just raise Dread through torturing a landed vassal (yours or a foreign vassal) and do an Intimidation grand tour to dissolve factions while you still have 100 dread.
@@ashrunzeda4099 Honestly can't say much about mods, only ones I really use are shit that automates boring micro shit like auto converting counties (basically moves your priest around on it's own instead of you having to remember to do it, which is pain with how shit the ck3 notifications are), or total conversions like EK2.
idk man i fight 3 civil wars every time I die and take over as my player heir anyways regardless of the diplomacy of the previous leader or myself so why not just get uber rich with stewardship instead?
Diplomacy is awesome late game with a huge empire. You get the perk that increases the opinion gain from gifts. You can instantly make all your vassals have guaranteed 100 opinion of you on succession if you have the money. Basically makes vassal factions against you nonexistent
Intrigue is great when u are a vasall or overall a minor power. it looses some steam if u are an emperor, thats when diplomacy can help u hold ur empire together.
Stewardship is definitely the top one, even as a Duchy you get so powerful, the only downside to Stewardship is the same as for Learning which is when you're not your culture group leader you have to endure the AI's nonsensencial picks for a long while.
Stewardship is about the most overrated tree in game. It helps noobs learn how to make money. But spamming stewardship after your first ruler is a waste of time.
Im kind of a martial guy myself, and while i can agree that its better in tribal, its effective in feudal as well, especially when you have a bunch of different pressed claims, you can realy swell up in size
Diplomacy True ruler is pretty good if you want to consolidate an entire religion/culture under your realm. You need it for the Hausa and Bjorn Ironside to get off the ground effectively in one life. But literally every other character after you build your realm it is effectively useless in most cases.
"forgiving" is OP because if you negotiate release for a hook on your prisoners then when you get too stressed you can forgive the the hook and lose stress
@@viroshanargiri4641not even close to those, just don’t play a mass murderer. Its not hard to play around forgiving, i often choose it intentionally in ruler designer because its a virtue to catholics and extremely easy stress loss while also giving diplomacy
For me I would swap stewardship with learning. Learning has basically only 1 good perk tree, the rest of them are not as good. Stewardship has way better opportunities. Also, when my character grows older, I like to switch to diplomacy tree, pick up "Groomed to rule" to give more skill points to my children, reset perks, and pick it again for even more
Thats just not true, the piety and development you get from the other two trees beats stewardship easily. Having every character live till almost 80 is just too op too. So many times I’ve been able to have back to back wars because their leader died right after the war because its as simple as waiting for your enemy to be old.
@@jxcksxnx6 it's actually not, if your character lives for too long you have to start micromanaging grandchildren or suffer a shitty heir ruined by lifestyle excesses because they just spent their whole life without anything to do. Piety is basically useless most of the times since you only need to farm piety if you want to create a new religion or reform some backwards one. And if you're talking about endless wars, successive generations of Stewardship rulers let you bank wars as you please, while fielding high quality MaA armies at all times. There's just no comparison, by the time your dev bonuses from learning lifestyle start making a real difference in your revenue a stewardship ruler is already way ahead since you can upgrade all your holdings easily in a single lifetime.
Blood did not just put intrigue in D yeah I hate fabricating a hook on my pope and requesting a claim on the Holy Roman Empire then plotting to kidnap the Caesar and as soon as the war starts it’s already over and I become the new Caesar. Yeah really bad class.
Also you can do whatever you want and your realm won’t care because they’re all too terrified of you to even join a faction + fear tax makes them pay you more
Intrigue is absolutely busted. I was England and constantly feuding with France, I married my kid to the 5th in line for the French throne. A few assassinations later, my grandson was the king of France, he converted to my custom culture and religion. I did the same with 4 other kingdoms. When the Pope declared a crusade against us, we had over 200,000 men.
I like Diplomacy a lot! Lets you fabricate artifact claims so you can steal all the coolest shit in the game, lets you expand peacefully by befriending and vassalizing... I love forming lasting friendships with other houses in my realm, and it's always nice when your loyal vassals of 200 years actually like you in-game.
Playing as England, Mongols had half of the world and were pushing into Italy and North Africa. Assassinated the kahn and heir, empire collapsed immediately. All the conquered people rebelled against the splinter hordes. A few well placed assassins can destroy any enemy.
What I will say for Diplomacy is that alot of its good stuff is very early in the tree. Generosity, Groomed to Rule, Befriend, and Flatter are all worth picking up for most characters. You can usually pick up most of the best stuff in Diplomacy just from doing some grand weddings and traveling.
My usual runs is a high martial first char, making a huge realm as a warlord, and his calm Charismatic heir to keep it together long enough for them to gain some semblence of unity
Having a duplo character after conquering a large swath of land as a predecessor is great, as with the 100% increase in gift power you can simply give money to keep the realm together.
Dip is amazing when you are focusing on family. I've literally gone from a 1 province minor in Ireland to the king of France with Dip by marrying my heir to the daughter of France, claiming the throne through her and calling in my 20 allies, and then just playing as their son when the time comes. All the while I was uniting Ireland and Wales and pushing into Scotland and England.
Diplomacy is great for huge realms, and martial is great for war and controlling your lands, it also gives you hella prestige if you’re commanding your armies consistently enough. Intrigue is more situational but very powerful. This tier list seems like a what I like to do vs a what is objectively good
I like Intrigue for larger realms. It allows you to purge your realm when you need it and you can effectively create a police state that terrorizes everybody into submission
If I'm playing wide it goes martial into intrigue If I'm playing tall I go stewardship into learning I don't think I've ever once went down a diplomacy tree. Maybe I should
the only time i use diplomacy was to put one point that give 2/3 points to a all of you children, but since it's not possible to know to what stat it will be alocated, not often used
Diplomacy is great when you have a large empire! Vassals always hate the new king/heir, not matter what you do, so the best option is to just have your heir have lots of Diplomacy, and lots of gold, and just buy the trust of any noble who plots against you!
Diplomacy was SUPER useful near the end of my Roman Empire campaign. Believe it or not, holding most of Europe and North Africa is much easier when people like you.
I like diplomacy if I feel like my realm is about to become unstable (usually due to a current martial character). Alternating between martial and diplomacy between characters is solid for wide empires
Dude, diplomacy was OP at the start of my Mother of Us All playthrough. I just asked politely for everyone around me to vassalize, and they just said yes en masse, lmao.
Diplo is goated in one specific circumstance. For the ruler in charge just after you have a hurr durr martial one. Good diplo can keep an empire that has no businuess keeping together, together. Long enough for all those who hated your predecessor to die out and make a stable realm for the following stewardship or learning ruler to thrive with.
never used diplomancy, learning only if my inheritor happens to be learning it depends on the situation of my ruling but can be good, steward is great and helped me build tall and then expand but u don't want to be in constant war, martial is top tier and always use it. They need to update these!
It is immediately clear that the author has never played through the Seduction and Torture talent tree. This is most likely why knowledge about the Itrigs is so meager.
Diplomacy is amazing for tribal, commisionning epics is really strong not to mention gaining one whole prestige a month just by going into diplomacy, plus it pairs nicely with martial allowing you to quickly get more knight and then more prestige per knight. Maybe its not as strong as it used to be because of how much you can spam events like hunts to gain prestige, but from tribal its very strong. it also can help gain alliances and improve vassalization. Intrigue is also not as strong as it used to be, and its scheme tree is pretty weak, but some perks are nice. however, the torture tree is very good, as it can create alot of dread and retain that dread forever, paired nicely with other trees that bring benefits to high dread. Diplomacy and intrigue both are excellent to jump into and pick up specific perks, especially gaining the one that makes intimidated vassals pay you more in gold and levies, good at keeping things in line for when running an empire, which leads me into Martial. you are vastly underrating Martial, which when looked at in comparison to stewardship as a whole is superior in many ways. Stewardship is extremely powerful for its single tree that leads to the architecture perk, yet almost every tree in martial is extremely useful and it is never wasted to pick any perk up, it significantly boosts your army not just in the early game but in the late game as well, reduced cassus belli cost is very important in the mid game, overseer tree is super useful at gaining control of your lands, and control can be a hard thing to manage if you are playing tall or wide, and the Gallant tree just makes your knights way better and gives way more which is also extremely useful in all stages. None of these trees even come close to how op learning is, learning is the king and is easily S tier. Ruling a kingdom posses lots of issues, but being able to gain more times to solves those problems is useful, on top of that controlling those people in which you rule over with religion is even more useful, and of course the most important is development. so many people sleep on development, they say they play tall but never focus on developing their lands. On top of all that once you become head of your culture learning is a must to gain technology as quickly as you can. Then if that still isnt enough to convince you, you can go down the middle tree only a couple perks down and get learn the job perk which gives you 20 percent of your councilors' skills, that is a massive boost if you stack your council right. All and all I highly disagree with this list, its should be ranked, learning S tier, Stewardship A tier, intrigue, diplomacy, and martial all at B tier. the reason I put those three at B tier is because they are solid and you would never really fully invest in just one, if you mix and match with any lifystyle it can make a medicore skill tree far more valuable, so none of these would ever be ranked below B tier for those that know how to play the game, even if you play tall, you only ever really use the middle tree for stewardship because the other two trees should be a B or even C tier if you ranked them on their own.
Diplomacy is actually really good if you know how to use it right. but yeah most the time it is good to have if you’re realm is really huge and hard to control but I’m one of those people that conquer certain mount of land then just build tall for few generations then conquer some more
i once got diplomacy to rank five as a russian ruller, who was ashari, and thanks to true ruler, i was able to vasalise all of the russians, all of the turks, the kazarians who fought for independance AND took a big part of persia that was pretty much all the caliph detractors.
Martial is extremely good for 1066 starts in the eastern parts of the map who will need to face the mongols sooner rather than later. The only hope of contending with Ghengis Khan is stacking as many martial bonuses and MAA/Knight modifiers as possible
Diplomacy = Easy Vassalisation, buy artifact claim, commission epic (If you just have the base game this is you only reliable way to get renown). C-tier in my opinion. Learning is definitely S-tier.
Intrigue lets you kidnap the unlanded heir of any nearby kingdom, and force them to marry your heir in whatever marriage you choose (matrilineal or patrilineal), effectively letting you pick and choose whatever kingdoms you’ll get (in 3 generations, but it’s more or less a guarantee that your dynasty will rule said kingdom)
I conquered the entirety of India using only diplomacy as Zoroastrian Persia. It keeps larger lands together super well. I think it's a solid B tier. It's definitely better than intrigue.
Once you form an empire, I'm pretty much jumping between diplomacy and stewardship, but one you have 8 to 9 domains the money just rolls in so diplomacy help keep the empire together and makes it so much easier to declare war on bigger nations and call allies with the defensive negotiation
@@ashrunzeda4099 Those look bigger on paper but the AI sucks at stationing so unless you have only the strong you should be able to handle either of those handly without allies. Your vassals show up to the crusade and unless you are a kid your martial king will btfo the vassals unless you get all 4 at the same time in which case you can just accept the liberty demand or independence one and fight the other three. Allies just show up and fight with you and don't help handle the extra fronts that would actually be helpful.
Diplomacy helped me refound the HRE. Literally used it to build up my shit built character by befriending super skilled wanderers (friendly counsel gives you their skills), then inviting them to my court for free to be my councillors. Then I made friends with almost any vassal that started a faction, ensuring realm peace so I could focus on conquering Germany so I could refound the HRE
@@Yoo-Kang the game has an annoying cycle where your eldest children will start becoming drunkards or gain other bad traits and being pulled into your vassals' schemes if your character lives for too long.
Diplomacy deserve B tier the pope became the sugar.If a kindom colapse you are the new king with no wars. Rebelions would not start if u dont mess with the vassals also everyone loves u and thats means that not many people wants to kill u it can be played in Tribal to get more man at arms can negociate an aliance and mi favorite you can buy the rigths of artifact no matter what thats so broken if you know wich ones are the best.
Rushing the knight effectiveness and number of knights in martial is the best because you can defeat almost all ai armies at start and when you can roll over your vassals you dont have to worry about factions. Also who plays long enough to doom stack ?
Diplo combines nicely with learning to help educate super smart kids. And depending on the start, an early alliance from Diplo perks can win you more wars than Martial. Still would agree Diplo is the worst, but it certainly has its uses. Would argue it has more value late game than martial when it comes to managing a realm, again combined with learning. On it's own.... specific Strats or challenges only.
Intrigue is great if you play towards it, bad otherwise. Same for Diplomacy, it's okay but the others are usually better. Martial is great early or for tribal/riding, not much use otherwise. Steward is great because more gold is always usefull. Learning is the goat especially when going tall. The age bonusses alone make it worth it.
Diplomacy is amazing once you get to the empire level for the true ruler perk in my mind, like it just makes my life so much easier to recruit all the vassals of the kingdom or empire title I just usurped + if you change your religion to match the region you want to expand into it becomes very easy to make your realm like 50% bigger even at the high ends.
Diplomacy is a path I go down if I do t need the martial or stewardship and already have whole of body. The middle path for renown can be pretty solid. But overall rarely use diplo
It depends on your goals, as tribal I realize that Intrigue is too important as martial, since you can receive almost non penalization for war by Kidnaping, and short the time of the truce by assasination.
All my characters do this and I don't use the health tree at all. I found that I have forbid my heir from having land and educate his heir myself and then they still get bad wives.
Diplo is good for very specific situations. If you get a kingdom title with a bunch of neigh ours belonging to that title you can get very big with no effort using diplo
First diplo no. But on the third path you have stress controll (not as good before nerf but still 25%) and if you basically have vassals mostly you family members extra opinion with some extra stats for kids. And one point on left tree and the extra opinion can help in sucsesson (you can basically tip-100 to 100 relationship)
if you say that you like diplomacy you're lying 😤
Diplomacy mfs when you can just imprison everyone: 😢
Well, starting diplomacy perks are quite useful to get. You can have free stats if you do eugenics or befriend have a strong neighbor/leige who doesn't like you(and they are even willing help you out with money if you go bankrupt as well as it kind of makes it easier to secure alliances with them).
Not only is Diplomacy possibly the best, but also the best starting characters are Diplomats, nothing better than starting a game as the Armenian principalities and after a few quick offers of vassalization you already have two kingdom titles ready to be made, also best tree to calm down your annoying needy vassals, 1st perk on the diplomat side and boom +100 to you, and you, and you, don't forget about force vassalization, it's just amazing for cleaning up the leftovers from realms you just abused into dissolution, or for getting alot of land in Africa, Siberia, orjust about anywhere with alot of small independent rulers, groomed to rule because who doesn't love extra skill points to your kids? +25 on offer vassalization sounds good to me, one more diplomacy for each level of prestige? Sign me up! Commision an epic to help bring up that family renown (and for rp purposes)? Sounds good to me.
TL;DR Diplo tree is best and anyone who disagrees with me does Intrigue only to seduce their sister
For pacifists it's the only way you can take over the world is using the offer vassalisation mechanic.
Without gambling
Diplomacy is good for easily holding your realm together while making everyone love you
It's pretty good but just kinda boring, especially when compared to the other lifestyles imo
I think the only fun diplomacy perk is the writing history one, that gives you renown and a book artifact every few years.
And honestly, that one could be learning perk.
I like that one perk that gives you a ridiculous amount of opinion for gifting money to people. Dudes that hate your guts immediately adore you. Basically assures that if you have a lot of money you won’t get plotted against
Plus diplomacy in a lot of cases does intrigue better than intrigue itself, since it helps with agent acceptance, which is what matters for the important schemes
Diplo is also good for tribal characters bc troops cost prestige
Diplomacy is really good if you have lots of small neighbour, saves you the effort of just conquesting them all.
Diplomacy (the middle path specifically) is really good for tribal characters. More prestige = more men-at-arms
Win lots of battles. Infinite prestige.
@@robertblume2951the diplomacy can bolster that and alls give you the push needed to start snowballing tho.
@@qwertyasdf4081 no you need to personally lead them so you need the martial first. What's s couple percentage gain versus hundreds to thousands per battle?
@@robertblume2951you don’t need to lead them to start farming prestige.
@@TheKillaShowno you do. You get prestigious per battle won. The prestige for raiding or winning a war with out you as the commander it like 1/10th what you get from leading the armies your self. 2k vs 4k battles give you about 1k prestige as the leader. The same battle with a different commander gives zero prestige.
Dude diplomacy is OP when Ur huge
Tbh not really as op as stewardship. Who needs people to love you when you alone make 80% of your realm's income and are so far ahead in tech that any revolts get stackwiped.
Or just give people 100goldnand watch them love you.
@The_Yukki depends on the mods you have. There are mods that make civil wars a pain in the ass to deal with. So that tactic is quite useless (especially after a ruler dies). 100 gold also doesn't guarantee a non-involvement in a faction. Sometimes, you're just funding your future enemy with that strat.
Better to just raise Dread through torturing a landed vassal (yours or a foreign vassal) and do an Intimidation grand tour to dissolve factions while you still have 100 dread.
@@ashrunzeda4099 Honestly can't say much about mods, only ones I really use are shit that automates boring micro shit like auto converting counties (basically moves your priest around on it's own instead of you having to remember to do it, which is pain with how shit the ck3 notifications are), or total conversions like EK2.
idk man i fight 3 civil wars every time I die and take over as my player heir anyways regardless of the diplomacy of the previous leader or myself so why not just get uber rich with stewardship instead?
Diplomacy is awesome late game with a huge empire. You get the perk that increases the opinion gain from gifts. You can instantly make all your vassals have guaranteed 100 opinion of you on succession if you have the money. Basically makes vassal factions against you nonexistent
Intrigue is great when u are a vasall or overall a minor power. it looses some steam if u are an emperor, thats when diplomacy can help u hold ur empire together.
Bro is intringue a english word ?
Stewardship is S tier it can double or tripple your income due to the bonuses you get
Stewardship 5 also gives bonuses to learning at a decent level.
Stewardship is definitely the top one, even as a Duchy you get so powerful, the only downside to Stewardship is the same as for Learning which is when you're not your culture group leader you have to endure the AI's nonsensencial picks for a long while.
Stewardship is about the most overrated tree in game. It helps noobs learn how to make money. But spamming stewardship after your first ruler is a waste of time.
Diplomacy in F tier is absolutely CRAZY dude, you better hope your bodyguard has excellent aptitude
Im kind of a martial guy myself, and while i can agree that its better in tribal, its effective in feudal as well, especially when you have a bunch of different pressed claims, you can realy swell up in size
Diplomacy True ruler is pretty good if you want to consolidate an entire religion/culture under your realm. You need it for the Hausa and Bjorn Ironside to get off the ground effectively in one life. But literally every other character after you build your realm it is effectively useless in most cases.
I love stewardship because more counties=more cash. This is one of the things I always check for in potential wives.
"forgiving" is OP because if you negotiate release for a hook on your prisoners then when you get too stressed you can forgive the the hook and lose stress
Forgiving is as trash like shy, craven, greedy and paranoid.
@@viroshanargiri4641Greedy vives You more money
@@viroshanargiri4641not even close to those, just don’t play a mass murderer. Its not hard to play around forgiving, i often choose it intentionally in ruler designer because its a virtue to catholics and extremely easy stress loss while also giving diplomacy
Diplomacy underrated as hell. As a tribal ruler with high diplo you can vassalize all of scandinavia in like 5 years
For me I would swap stewardship with learning. Learning has basically only 1 good perk tree, the rest of them are not as good. Stewardship has way better opportunities. Also, when my character grows older, I like to switch to diplomacy tree, pick up "Groomed to rule" to give more skill points to my children, reset perks, and pick it again for even more
Thats just not true, the piety and development you get from the other two trees beats stewardship easily. Having every character live till almost 80 is just too op too. So many times I’ve been able to have back to back wars because their leader died right after the war because its as simple as waiting for your enemy to be old.
@@jxcksxnx6 it's actually not, if your character lives for too long you have to start micromanaging grandchildren or suffer a shitty heir ruined by lifestyle excesses because they just spent their whole life without anything to do. Piety is basically useless most of the times since you only need to farm piety if you want to create a new religion or reform some backwards one. And if you're talking about endless wars, successive generations of Stewardship rulers let you bank wars as you please, while fielding high quality MaA armies at all times. There's just no comparison, by the time your dev bonuses from learning lifestyle start making a real difference in your revenue a stewardship ruler is already way ahead since you can upgrade all your holdings easily in a single lifetime.
@@admontblanc Thanks for your opinion but I am not reading all that. Steward sucks just accept learning and martial are the best 😭
@@jxcksxnx6 ironic you choose learning and talk about dev while refusing to learn how to actually max income and dev 😂
@@AlbertBasedman you don’t max dev with steward in 50 years game time thanks for your opinion.
If I remember correctly, most stat buffs you can get from the lifestyle system are in the diplomacy lifestyle trees.
Me uniting all of Scandinavia as Björn Ironside only using diplomacy
I agreed with everything but diplomacy I don't really min max but honestly diplomacy is my go to after learning
Putting Intrigue in D tier is wild.
you can literally win any war by kidnapping 😭 intrigue is top 1
Yes let me kidnap every ruler to win every war. Boring, intrigue is for when you wanna fuck around for one of your rulers lives.
bro thats been patched for years now 💀
@@purpleeykidnap realm heir>kill ruler> heir becomes ruler>you have ruler captured> war over.
Blood did not just put intrigue in D yeah I hate fabricating a hook on my pope and requesting a claim on the Holy Roman Empire then plotting to kidnap the Caesar and as soon as the war starts it’s already over and I become the new Caesar. Yeah really bad class.
Also you can do whatever you want and your realm won’t care because they’re all too terrified of you to even join a faction + fear tax makes them pay you more
Me when I cause an entire empire to collapse because I felt like it
Intrigue is absolutely busted. I was England and constantly feuding with France, I married my kid to the 5th in line for the French throne. A few assassinations later, my grandson was the king of France, he converted to my custom culture and religion. I did the same with 4 other kingdoms. When the Pope declared a crusade against us, we had over 200,000 men.
Intrigue with the -1000% dread loss skill is good when managing a large realm making vassals too terrified to oppose you
But... but forced vassalization 🥺
Diplomacy is key to forming sweden, Norway and Denmark as Bjorn ironside and generally useful for vassalisation
100% send gift opinion is my go to first for new rulers, then I go for other lifestyles
I like Diplomacy a lot! Lets you fabricate artifact claims so you can steal all the coolest shit in the game, lets you expand peacefully by befriending and vassalizing... I love forming lasting friendships with other houses in my realm, and it's always nice when your loyal vassals of 200 years actually like you in-game.
Playing as England, Mongols had half of the world and were pushing into Italy and North Africa. Assassinated the kahn and heir, empire collapsed immediately. All the conquered people rebelled against the splinter hordes. A few well placed assassins can destroy any enemy.
I enjoy watching CK3 however I am terrible at the game😅 I couldn't get off Ireland
First half of the game: stewardship and learning
Second half after I become unstoppable: intrigue (just start mess around with the people)
Diplomacy is OP
What I will say for Diplomacy is that alot of its good stuff is very early in the tree. Generosity, Groomed to Rule, Befriend, and Flatter are all worth picking up for most characters.
You can usually pick up most of the best stuff in Diplomacy just from doing some grand weddings and traveling.
My usual runs is a high martial first char, making a huge realm as a warlord, and his calm Charismatic heir to keep it together long enough for them to gain some semblence of unity
Having a duplo character after conquering a large swath of land as a predecessor is great, as with the 100% increase in gift power you can simply give money to keep the realm together.
Dip is amazing when you are focusing on family. I've literally gone from a 1 province minor in Ireland to the king of France with Dip by marrying my heir to the daughter of France, claiming the throne through her and calling in my 20 allies, and then just playing as their son when the time comes. All the while I was uniting Ireland and Wales and pushing into Scotland and England.
Diplomacy is great for huge realms, and martial is great for war and controlling your lands, it also gives you hella prestige if you’re commanding your armies consistently enough. Intrigue is more situational but very powerful. This tier list seems like a what I like to do vs a what is objectively good
Diplomacy is my go to lifestyle when managing large realms. Prevents rebellions.
I like Intrigue for larger realms. It allows you to purge your realm when you need it and you can effectively create a police state that terrorizes everybody into submission
You can basically form the Empire of the North Sea in 2 generations starting with Bjorn Ironside and a Diplomacy focus.
I only like Diplomacy when I'm small and starting out, helps keep you alive.
I always just dip into diplomacy for the extra child skill points and to get the befriend plot and the never touch it again
Diplomacy is good, when ur growing your realm u can forcefully vassalize and with thoughtful you can easily make characters like you
Don’t underestimate the power of friendship and diplomacy
If I'm playing wide it goes martial into intrigue
If I'm playing tall I go stewardship into learning
I don't think I've ever once went down a diplomacy tree. Maybe I should
Diplomacy is pretty powerful. I've increased my realm size at a stupid rate without war using it
Diplo tribal hella kids and paint
Diplomacy can get you alliances without marriage, and also, all prestige bonuses get 2x, AND you can farm Renown with Epic
I love boosting algorithms for RUclipsrs whose videos I enjoy
the only time i use diplomacy was to put one point that give 2/3 points to a all of you children, but since it's not possible to know to what stat it will be alocated, not often used
Diplomacy is great when you have a large empire! Vassals always hate the new king/heir, not matter what you do, so the best option is to just have your heir have lots of Diplomacy, and lots of gold, and just buy the trust of any noble who plots against you!
Diplomacy was SUPER useful near the end of my Roman Empire campaign. Believe it or not, holding most of Europe and North Africa is much easier when people like you.
Its even more easy when people fear you (intrigue + dread)
I like diplomacy if I feel like my realm is about to become unstable (usually due to a current martial character). Alternating between martial and diplomacy between characters is solid for wide empires
If you spec into diplomacy you can subjugate neighbours really easily
Dude, diplomacy was OP at the start of my Mother of Us All playthrough. I just asked politely for everyone around me to vassalize, and they just said yes en masse, lmao.
Diplo is goated in one specific circumstance.
For the ruler in charge just after you have a hurr durr martial one. Good diplo can keep an empire that has no businuess keeping together, together. Long enough for all those who hated your predecessor to die out and make a stable realm for the following stewardship or learning ruler to thrive with.
never used diplomancy, learning only if my inheritor happens to be learning it depends on the situation of my ruling but can be good, steward is great and helped me build tall and then expand but u don't want to be in constant war, martial is top tier and always use it. They need to update these!
Diplomacy is important every few cycles for stability
It is immediately clear that the author has never played through the Seduction and Torture talent tree. This is most likely why knowledge about the Itrigs is so meager.
Tell me you suck at CK3 without telling me you suck at CK3
I really like diplomacy. Feels like playing w/ a quality of life mod that makes you avoid 50% of the trouble the game throws at you.
The true ruler perk specifically Is super useful.
Nah idk what y'all talking about i nver fail a 95% intrigue 😅😅
Bro I’m playing first game, 200 years in and 95% has failed a couple times already 😢
@@morgan7412 that really crazy to me
Когда твоя Империя размером с половину мира, без дипломатии её невероятно сложно удержать.
Diplomacy is amazing for tribal, commisionning epics is really strong not to mention gaining one whole prestige a month just by going into diplomacy, plus it pairs nicely with martial allowing you to quickly get more knight and then more prestige per knight.
Maybe its not as strong as it used to be because of how much you can spam events like hunts to gain prestige, but from tribal its very strong. it also can help gain alliances and improve vassalization.
Intrigue is also not as strong as it used to be, and its scheme tree is pretty weak, but some perks are nice. however, the torture tree is very good, as it can create alot of dread and retain that dread forever, paired nicely with other trees that bring benefits to high dread. Diplomacy and intrigue both are excellent to jump into and pick up specific perks, especially gaining the one that makes intimidated vassals pay you more in gold and levies, good at keeping things in line for when running an empire, which leads me into Martial.
you are vastly underrating Martial, which when looked at in comparison to stewardship as a whole is superior in many ways. Stewardship is extremely powerful for its single tree that leads to the architecture perk, yet almost every tree in martial is extremely useful and it is never wasted to pick any perk up, it significantly boosts your army not just in the early game but in the late game as well, reduced cassus belli cost is very important in the mid game, overseer tree is super useful at gaining control of your lands, and control can be a hard thing to manage if you are playing tall or wide, and the Gallant tree just makes your knights way better and gives way more which is also extremely useful in all stages.
None of these trees even come close to how op learning is, learning is the king and is easily S tier. Ruling a kingdom posses lots of issues, but being able to gain more times to solves those problems is useful, on top of that controlling those people in which you rule over with religion is even more useful, and of course the most important is development. so many people sleep on development, they say they play tall but never focus on developing their lands. On top of all that once you become head of your culture learning is a must to gain technology as quickly as you can. Then if that still isnt enough to convince you, you can go down the middle tree only a couple perks down and get learn the job perk which gives you 20 percent of your councilors' skills, that is a massive boost if you stack your council right.
All and all I highly disagree with this list, its should be ranked, learning S tier, Stewardship A tier, intrigue, diplomacy, and martial all at B tier. the reason I put those three at B tier is because they are solid and you would never really fully invest in just one, if you mix and match with any lifystyle it can make a medicore skill tree far more valuable, so none of these would ever be ranked below B tier for those that know how to play the game, even if you play tall, you only ever really use the middle tree for stewardship because the other two trees should be a B or even C tier if you ranked them on their own.
Diplomacy is actually really good if you know how to use it right. but yeah most the time it is good to have if you’re realm is really huge and hard to control but I’m one of those people that conquer certain mount of land then just build tall for few generations then conquer some more
i once got diplomacy to rank five as a russian ruller, who was ashari, and thanks to true ruler, i was able to vasalise all of the russians, all of the turks, the kazarians who fought for independance AND took a big part of persia that was pretty much all the caliph detractors.
I chainge to diplomacy at the end before death so I can chose "groomed to rule" and has my heir start with extra points
Martial is extremely good for 1066 starts in the eastern parts of the map who will need to face the mongols sooner rather than later. The only hope of contending with Ghengis Khan is stacking as many martial bonuses and MAA/Knight modifiers as possible
Diplomacy = Easy Vassalisation, buy artifact claim, commission epic (If you just have the base game this is you only reliable way to get renown). C-tier in my opinion.
Learning is definitely S-tier.
Diplomacy: because your heir decided to be a diplomatic person and is somehow good at it.
I have a friend I play with who ONLY does diplomacy and I really can not fathom why
Intrigue is amazing killing all your rivals and unwanted vassals and you get a extra scheme slot
Intrigue lets you kidnap the unlanded heir of any nearby kingdom, and force them to marry your heir in whatever marriage you choose (matrilineal or patrilineal), effectively letting you pick and choose whatever kingdoms you’ll get (in 3 generations, but it’s more or less a guarantee that your dynasty will rule said kingdom)
I conquered the entirety of India using only diplomacy as Zoroastrian Persia. It keeps larger lands together super well. I think it's a solid B tier. It's definitely better than intrigue.
Once you form an empire, I'm pretty much jumping between diplomacy and stewardship, but one you have 8 to 9 domains the money just rolls in so diplomacy help keep the empire together and makes it so much easier to declare war on bigger nations and call allies with the defensive negotiation
If you have an empire what bigger enemy are you facing? And who needs allies?
@@robertblume2951
Vassal rebellion after a ruler dies or the Pope after calling a crusade on you and you have an uncommon faith.
@@ashrunzeda4099 Those look bigger on paper but the AI sucks at stationing so unless you have only the strong you should be able to handle either of those handly without allies. Your vassals show up to the crusade and unless you are a kid your martial king will btfo the vassals unless you get all 4 at the same time in which case you can just accept the liberty demand or independence one and fight the other three. Allies just show up and fight with you and don't help handle the extra fronts that would actually be helpful.
Who doesn’t love modded warfare in ck3
Diplomacy helped me refound the HRE. Literally used it to build up my shit built character by befriending super skilled wanderers (friendly counsel gives you their skills), then inviting them to my court for free to be my councillors. Then I made friends with almost any vassal that started a faction, ensuring realm peace so I could focus on conquering Germany so I could refound the HRE
Learning is good until your heir is 40
Thats why your heir should be your grandson... or your last, much younger son.
@@LuBanchiowait why
@@Yoo-Kang the game has an annoying cycle where your eldest children will start becoming drunkards or gain other bad traits and being pulled into your vassals' schemes if your character lives for too long.
Not putting stewardship in S tier is just objectively wrong. Learning is also S tier though.
bjorn ironside would like to know your location
Diplo in CK2 at least was the goat choice if u wanted to get elected in Byzantium, or basically any elective succession
martial viking builds are wonderful fun.
Diplomacy deserve B tier the pope became the sugar.If a kindom colapse you are the new king with no wars. Rebelions would not start if u dont mess with the vassals also everyone loves u and thats means that not many people wants to kill u it can be played in Tribal to get more man at arms can negociate an aliance and mi favorite you can buy the rigths of artifact no matter what thats so broken if you know wich ones are the best.
Rushing the knight effectiveness and number of knights in martial is the best because you can defeat almost all ai armies at start and when you can roll over your vassals you dont have to worry about factions. Also who plays long enough to doom stack ?
Diplo combines nicely with learning to help educate super smart kids. And depending on the start, an early alliance from Diplo perks can win you more wars than Martial.
Still would agree Diplo is the worst, but it certainly has its uses. Would argue it has more value late game than martial when it comes to managing a realm, again combined with learning. On it's own.... specific Strats or challenges only.
Me while forming a whole empire using Diplomacy 😐
Intrigue is great if you play towards it, bad otherwise. Same for Diplomacy, it's okay but the others are usually better. Martial is great early or for tribal/riding, not much use otherwise. Steward is great because more gold is always usefull. Learning is the goat especially when going tall. The age bonusses alone make it worth it.
I dunno, the Overseer and Strategist tree are pretty good even with feudals
If you are an emperor or a king with powerful vassals diplomacy is the best
Diplomacy is goated when you do aggressive expansion
Same but i would change Martial to B Tier you can sometimes win battles with 3× less men
me likey big country
me martial
me conquer literally everything
Diplomacy is amazing once you get to the empire level for the true ruler perk in my mind, like it just makes my life so much easier to recruit all the vassals of the kingdom or empire title I just usurped + if you change your religion to match the region you want to expand into it becomes very easy to make your realm like 50% bigger even at the high ends.
Diplomacy is a path I go down if I do t need the martial or stewardship and already have whole of body. The middle path for renown can be pretty solid. But overall rarely use diplo
You need steward to even play tall. Like once you have a steward you need another to hold the domain
It depends on your goals, as tribal I realize that Intrigue is too important as martial, since you can receive almost non penalization for war by Kidnaping, and short the time of the truce by assasination.
I’ve had to ban learning character because they live too long and I end up skipping my heir completely and getting my dummy grandson
All my characters do this and I don't use the health tree at all. I found that I have forbid my heir from having land and educate his heir myself and then they still get bad wives.
Björn Järnsida + Diplomacy is goated
Diplo is good for very specific situations. If you get a kingdom title with a bunch of neigh ours belonging to that title you can get very big with no effort using diplo
First diplo no. But on the third path you have stress controll (not as good before nerf but still 25%) and if you basically have vassals mostly you family members extra opinion with some extra stats for kids. And one point on left tree and the extra opinion can help in sucsesson (you can basically tip-100 to 100 relationship)
Diplomacia te permite hacer amigos y mejorar relaciones muy facil, es perfecta para desbaratar conjuras enemigas, te haces amigo del líder y listo
No shot you dissed diplomacy like that (everything else is valid)
diplomacy users when they vassalise all their neighbours and become massive in a few clicks