I mean, I wouldnt mind if creators asked for donations cause lets be real here, everyone would agree with it(Myself included). But paywalling something gives justification for one to make it free by force if need be.
@@SWDennis This could be concern, but again its better than paywalling stuff. Sure, good portion of people probably wont donate but those of them that really enjoyed the mod probably will. That and from examples of other game communities like Starsector, shady paywalling of stuff generally ends in people going in to at the very least leak stuff and make it public, or to literally go after creator
Exactly. I don't mind paying 5 bucks for a DLC quality mod. But paying 5 bucks a month adds up quick. Especially as you are only paying for minor changes after the initial purchase.
No one is stopping you from buying into the subscription for only one month to download the mod, just if you cancel your subscription after a month, you will be missing out on the most upto date versions of the mod unless if you buy into the subscription for a month periodically over time
@@BeBoBE No, it's paying for subscription, downloading and cancelling subscription and loosing access to the downloadable files in case you loose them. It's not the same as just buying it, it comes with risks and additional efforts. Call me petty, but it's my money and if I'm, supposed to pay, I can expect better service. I know patreon is a legal loophole to sell mods without legally saying they're selling them, but let's not act stupid, we know that it's just subscription selling mods.
@@LeadedHen If it's so simple why not just sell it normally? I know, the answer is a legal loophole, but here's the thing, if I'm supposed to pay, I am allowed to demand better service.
I heard Matt Lowne say on Twitter that, if you got one month of EVE in the past but cancelled, messaging Blackrack would have him send you the updated one. Not sure if this is true, but just leaving it here.
Modder here. I've spent over 4000 hours working on mods, unpaid. Yes, it's a hobby, but it is also a lot of work. I have a full time job, so I don't depend on my mods for income, but the (admittedly small) amount I get via Patreon is helpful. Linx & Blackrack have put an enormous amount of time and effort into their two respective mods (updated Parallax and Volumetrics, respectfully). They both improve the game's graphics enormously, way beyond what this video shows. The immersion is now a real thing. Demanding that people work for free is unreasonable; if someone wants to be compensated for their time, they are totally in the right to do so. Converesly, you are absolutely in the right to refuse to pay for these mods. It's your choice. And, it's your choice if you subscribe for a month to get the mod and then cancel. It's also your choice if you decide that you want to put in the hundreds of hours of work to make your own version of these mods, improved in whichever way you want to, after which you can either release it for free, ask for donations or sell it via subscription or a flat fee. I do wonder, however, if he were to sell it for a flat fee (say, $15) with updates for a year included, would you be willing to pay that?
I'm glad Blackrack is working for the Kitten Space Agency developers because it'll mean at least volumetric clouds + eve + scatterer will be part of the game when you buy it. I know alot of people on Reddit strongly dislike that he asks for payment but the work he is doing 100% deserves to be paid for. The tragedy is that the KSP 2 studio blew through $40 million before hiring him during the last 6 months of development and that none of his work even made it to the game's final patch release. His work as a graphics engineer is worth way more than the measly amount he makes from patreon donations, and the proof is in the fact that the KSP 2 studio and Kitten Space Agency studios both hired him to work as a full time graphics engineer. That kind of salary in the industry is an easy minimum 6 figures given his skill set, and the fact that you can even buy his work for only a one off $5 payment is insanely good value.
When it's worth it, I think it's valid. Mod developers are still developers, just unofficial. If they can make enough money from mods to live off, in theory they can just live off that funding and make even higher quality mods. But if you really want something to be concerned about: Mods with ads and microtransactions aren't impossible.
You have to be deserving of it to charge. Normally the entire purpose of modding is free community resources, but blackrack’s atmosphere stuff is basically his trademark at this point, he got hired by PD for it before they canned KSP2, and he’s already got a new job on the KSA project for it as well. I don’t mind paying 5 measly dollars for that kind of work. But it needs to be that kind of work. Something so signature nobody else could produce something like it. I believe parallax is one of those things too, Linx puts a lot of effort into that mod and especially into mod compatibility with mainstays like outer planets and co., stockalike station parts, near/far future, etc. Plus it’s not like he’s locking everyone out entirely, he only charges for access to early builds before official public release, which is perfectly fair. Blackrack doesn’t have a free version of the clouds, but he did recently release deferred for free, which is a very beautiful visual mod. yet he didn’t put it on his patreon exclusively, so clearly he has an awareness of whether or not a mod is worth charging for. He also says you can share the volumetrics among friends and he won’t mind as long as you don’t outright undermine his sales by posting it online for free. All told, these guys aren’t grifters, they only sell what they believe is worth charging, and it’s a high bar at that, and they aren’t stingy about it either, they actively encourage you to share the file locally so that only one guy out of a group of some friends has to pay, they provide free updates, or in the case of Linx, the charge is only temporary. My only gripe on the paying service for their mods is that they should move to a different service than Patreon for selling them. Because you can’t get updates unless you keep an active subscription, which is not worth it with the update cadence. Blackrack will send you updated files of his volumetrics mod if you prove you bought it at some point, but that’s inconvenient for both him and his buyers. They should both consider instead selling “keys” of some sort to a secure server or drive so that you can buy a one-month subscription, be rewarded a key, and then have access to that mod and any updates they put there even after the subscription ends, that way it’s an actual one-time payment for that mod.
@@LooperEpic There is no subscription fee to use these mods. There is nothing stopping you from paying the $5 for a membership, downloading the addon, and then cancelling right afterwards, making it a one-time payment. I paid $5 for volumetric clouds months ago and I've been using it ever since without paying another dime.
I can understand throwing a couple bucks at a mod creator, but paid mods and especially mod subscriptions are anti-consumer. Subscriptions in particular are really greedy.
Why is it anti-consumer? We paid for the game - and some of the mods arguably have better work than the base game has. So why shouldn't the mode creators who spent years and lots of money developing their skills sets get paid?
it’s literally an individual that took time out of their life to develop a mod. it’s not a corporation asking for $5 a month, it’s a guy trying to support his hobby, and maybe turn that hobby into an income stream. there is nothing wrong with that at all. it’s just capitalism. Buy one month, download, and then cancel your subscription. You have now paid $5 for a stable version of the mod, if there are substantial updates in the future, repeat the process. it’s immature to whine about someone who is trying to make a living.
NOT a huge fan of paid mods, but Blackrack deserves every penny now that he's working on KSA. With that said tho, I wish mod developers would stop putting their mods behind subscription services.
People deserve to be paid for their work, but him now working on KSA is precisely he shouldn't be charging for KSP mods any longer. He's getting paid working on KSA, so he's basically working for a competitor to KSP while making money off of KSP as well. This is a conflict of interests.
The issue I have is with the culture that will follow paid modding. Modding came from passionate individuals modifying games for themselves and others to enjoy. Paid modding will inevitably lead to subpar modification, specifically designed to lower frame rates and poorer quality. If someone can make a living doing that it'll be a race to the bottom and the benefits will be few and far between. There is a parallel with modern game development from big companies
No. Just no. You obviously don't personally know anyone that offers paid mods, and have not modded anything yourself, these people are asking a pittance in compared to the work they're putting in, and you and people with uninformed opinions like yours are just exacerbating the issue.
Your poor assumptions show your opinion to be dumber than mine. I've supported the patreon of kenshi modders, spent a ridiculous amount of my time modding in that game. Went out of my way to learn how to use blender to increase my ability to mod in that game. I've been using and modding the total war series for nearly two decades, and recently released a sub mod for rtw remastered. A few years ago I wanted to have the awesome modded Iva cockpits inside one of the starship mods for KSP, and did so. Nowhere did I say paying modders was a bad thing, just the culture that will inevitably follow mods behind a paywall. An individual pays a pittance (a low monthly support is no pittance) to a modder to use the work. 500 individuals paying a pittance one time or monthly is more than enough to make a living. It should be publicly released now and those who wish to support will do so. Putting it behind a cost will incentivize another to do it cheaper and cheaper. Cheaper will mean poorer quality over time. If being paid is more important than the work you release, it just a job. You will also see game Publishers in the next couple of years removing newer games from the Steam Workshop specifically to monetize their modding community. Hard to see any benefit there for modders and those who enjoy their work.
@@BobzeMovie because early access was invented for this purpose only. Selling an unfinished product but expecting full price, while also having the privilege of never having to finish the product while keeping the funds. Also, idk if you noticed but, once a game does leave early access, its usually abandoned by the creator entirely. Paid mods are horrible.
Pros of paid mods (yes even subscription): it helps support genuinely devoted mod creators and allows them focus more time on the mod. Negatives: can lead to laziness and slow development, along side a precedent that mods SHOULD be paid for… this toxic and NOT what mods are about.
Very cool, thanks! In some cases the free mods actually looked better imo. But in the sky, and especially during sunset the the paid mods were crealy better!
i think subscribing to a patreon for a mod is fine, its not like im paying some corporation who's only goal is profit and growth; im supporting a creators hobby and in return getting early access to a mods development. i think people who are complaining about these subscription mods just have the wrong mindset, and see it solely as a transactional thing. you are becoming a patron of a community. plus you can always just pay once for access and then cancel. when blackrack decides they are done working on the mods, and that they are finally finished, im assuming they will be open for everyone to use like many many other mods. its definitely fair for mod authors to want some compensation after working on a mod for years on end, especially in the case of blackrack.
Paid mods by themselves don’t sound as bad as the precedent they set, especially for game development/business decisions - feels not too far logically from “if you want the full game experience you have to pay more”. Do some mods enjoy enough use and popularity to arguably deserve compensation? Sure. Is that mindset capable of being taken advantage of by greedy developers? Absolutely. It’s a grey area and so it’s inevitable that some people are going to test the waters to see what they can get away with.
In my opinion, both of the mods make some of the kerbin surface and that of some of the other planets look worse in that they miss the point of what the areas are supposed to look like, but the free mod has more appealing clouds. (however, the paid mod takes the cake when it's a sunset)
I feel like this is one of the more advanced and transformative mods for the game and deserves payment. People get angry that they cant get the newest version for free. Just pretend it doesn't exist and get a different mod. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you deserve to have it for free just because its a 'mod'.
Kinda, but paywalling anything on internet be it arts, mods, games, videos and whatever else is enough of justification to have someone make it all public, for free to anyone else who may find it interesting. Especially if its again subscription based paywall since its cancer, and more so if you have case of shady paywall with "trust" and whatever not.
@@Alpharius.18123 no, the cancerous element here, is you and people like you. People deserve to be compensated for their work, period. If you don't like it, don't use it, but making "it all public" is a gross misuse of your fellow community member's trust, and what leads to modders just quitting the scene all together.
@@booth403 Very cool take, but you forget we are on internet where generally noone gives a crap about that sort of thing. That and generally money tends to bring out ego more than exposure and general engagement with one's works. We have those types of people on Starsector and it sure aint pretty to try and rip them off from community. Especially when they put shady paywalls, trust barriers and all other sort of nasty things.
@@booth403 That and like I said in my other comments. If guy were to do donations system OR one time payment and you have permament access to his mods+support and all that then I would say that its fair deal to pay. But subscription is big no no cause it often or not can lead into wrong directions.
Didn't knew about paid version of these already fantastic mods. I personally think it sucks, modding (if not pure hacking) of games always had been a hobby, not a job. Modders enhance their work thanks to the community feedback. Is the community paid for this free debugging/refining? The only case a modder /mapper may earn money is if his work is bought by the game developer itself. That is fair.
ew, wrong, gross. 1, people make money on their hobbies, that's how they continue to finance said hobbies ... 2, 'Is the community paid for this free debugging/refining?" this question is pure nonsense. You're a player, you don't get paid, that's understood. 3, "The only case a modder /mapper may earn money is if his work is bought by the game developer itself. That is fair." Are you a child? if so, I'm sorry for being blunt, but any self respecting adult understands that time is money, and that anyone putting time towards a project is well within their right to expect compensation. Developers make the game, and DLC. They do not, and should not, be a part of the modding community unless its by choice and separate from their job at the company. Last thing, modding has been always been a hobby, that is true. BUT, those of us that have been gaming since PCs literally became common in most households, are well aware that creators have been asking for compensation from the beginning. There were paid mods in the 90s and early 2000s ... the ignorance in this comment section is sickening.
You don't have to pay for it. Most modders do it for fun as a hobby, some actually use it to generate income for themselves. It's a free market; Some modders release mods for free, others ask for donation, and a few ask for it to be paid. Going from personal experience, the number of people who voluntarily donate is extremely low. For someone who is trying to live off of modding, or even pay a substantional portion of their bills, the voluntary path is unsustainable. Mods are not necessary to play the game, they only enhance the game in one or more ways. If you are happy with the game, don't mod it. If you mod it, you are knowingly using what is at best beta software which you aren't paying for. Hopefully the modder will fix the bugs, but if it's not worth it, or he loses interest, the player can either remove the mod or just use the mod with bugs. If you want better than beta software, you have to be willing to pay for it. Yes, some modders provide great mods without payment. Speaking from experience, at least half of all the mods that I've adopted over the years had one or more significant bugs which needed to be fixed. I've tried to keep up, but it's only a hobby and RL takes precedence. Given the quality of the mods from Linx and Blackrack, support them in these mods and any future endevours is, IMHO, extremely worthwile.
on the otherhand, no one is forcing you to buy it. You don't like it, don't pay for it. But stop bitching about something you have no stake in, everyone is well within their right to ask for compensation for their work.
I don’t mind supporting modders on the class of Blackrack who literally gets offered jobs specifically for the quality of his work, I just wish he had a way of providing updates to people who have already paid him instead of using Patreon, because while you can subscribe for a month or two to give him some money then cancel, if he releases an update you have to buy a new subscription for a month to get that update.
Paying for mods is a *wild* concept to me, as someone who usually works with Minecraft. People will make things and give them freely, if they can. Ads on the website you download them from can give a little bonus, but people sboukd make things for the sake of making and sharing them as much as possible. Now, I do think It's not like it's evil to try to make money from things, but I won't support it by paying for it.
@@everybodyants It is planned to be free when its finished from everything I've seen, and the other versions are already, so nothing should lead you to believe otherwise.
just buy the subscription once for the download and then cancel it. it’s like buying a cup of coffee for the developer that probably spend hundreds of hours on the mod.
God please do, this comment section is disgusting ... Glad to see that some people actually have an understanding of how the world works. Side note, as someone that has paid for the clouds, they're well worth it. You get a performance boost if used with his FREE "deferred" mod as well, so doubly worth it in all honesty.
I honestly don't care that I have to use free versions of paid mods and sacrifice some fps and quality.. I'm happy with them as they are As bummed as I am about the super nice versions being paid, I make do with what I have, and it's honestly more than enough for me
When I downloaded Parallax from CKAN I had a problem with the lack of scatters for Ike and Dres, how to fix these errors? Also I decided to look into the configs, and saw the 'billboard' parametre for the scatters, what does it mean?
The only reason I'm not paying for the new releases of Parallax is because I am already paying for stock volumetric clouds. If I wasn't already paying for volumetric clouds, I would get the more advanced version of parallax.
I live in Russia and simply do not have any ways to buy it because patreon doesn’t accept any russian cards. So I use “pirated”(I’m still not sure if I can call it pirating) versions of paid mods. The same with some other products. If you don’t allow me to pay you, why should not I pirate?
this is an edge case, and I don't think anyone would be legitimately upset with you for taking that route. Young kids and people in countries that don't have access to the paid versions, are well within their moral rights to look around for free alternatives. Just try to pay when you can, as these people do put a lot of time into the work they create.
If I had money I would get them but not only am I a kid who can't get any money but also the money I do get is not didgital so I'm stuck with free mods /:
little man, you are appreciated. Keep that mindset for when you can afford to support creators, everyone deserves to be compensated for their work, and we all understand that young homies can't always afford to do so, and that's alright :)
2 месяца назад+1
Das ist jetzt vielleicht eine blöde Frage, aber kann es sein, dass du Deutsch bist, da ja auch das Overlay auf Deutsch in dem Video ist?
Why is it unfair? This is not some greedy developer trying to gouge money. Blackrack and Gameslinx have created truly game changing mods and the earlier versions are free. You are free to walk away.
I wouldn't mind paying even £10 for the clouds mod, but they want a monthly payment of £4.... meaning, you have to "keep paying" for a mod, so that's a NO GO for me 👎 The free version is just fine for me.
gross, if you use it, you're a part of the problem. You realize that multiple mod creators have just stopped working on their mods because of people sharing their work for free? You want to stop getting quality mods? this is how stop getting quality mods.
I have not a problem with paying their work in general. They worked on it for years - it is fair to give them something in return. But.... I am not registered on these platforms like patreon. I don't like to get access via a subscription. Final question: I play KSp with RSS. What would be my profit of the paid versions? Is there any other way to get hand on these mods? (I mean a legal one! Not by dirty ways!)
I don't want to accuse the author of fraud in any way, but... I literally made my own free mod compilation a week ago (I don't distribute it) where everything looks the same as in your "paid" version. Moreover, sometimes I noticed that you change the terrain frames between the free and paid versions, and in most cases the difference is so small that it differs only in a couple of flora models and clouds (although the clouds, even if not the latest paid version, are freely available)
i pay for better planes in flight simulators. I would pay for a mod , a logical price considering that an amazing f35 for msfs cost around 35 euros...for parallax i would pay 10. One time purchase with support. I dont like the sub idea.
This video just saddens me because it shows what KSP 2 could have been if it was passion not suits in white ties who made the game. I can't believe squad was gutted like that.
This framing kinda irks me. Did Blackrack/Linx say their mods are "premium"? Because last _I_ checked, the mods are Early Access/Beta - that is, they're developing what will _eventually_ become free mods, but they're giving Patreon members beta access. It's not a "paid mod," it's a reward for being a supporter. There's a pretty clear difference. Forgive me. It appears I made the mistake of trying to inject nuance into a conversation on the Internet.
you have to pay to be able to download it (legally), so its a paid mod. Its that simple. The reward for being a supporter is literally the exact same thing.
You only need to look at KSP 2 to see how "early access" is often used as a shield against criticism for things that are never planned to actually leave it. Why would Blackrack/Linx release their mods for free when they can get people to pay for it, and get people to defend their making people to pay for it?
Yes and the game itself is not made by the modder so basically the modder is profitting off of the game developer IP directly. This will not hold in court in any way and bring down the entire modding community with it. Mods were always meant as a passion project not as a full-time job. Once money is involved companies are going to take notice.
@@Ponja__ 1) That's survivorship bias. A not insignificant number of the games in my Steam library are ones I bought into when they were in EA, and are now fully-featured titles with ongoing support. 2) Early Access isn't a warning sign in-and-of itself. Most products that use EA as a shield had oh-so-many red flags before they even went into EA. To use KSP2 as an example, the publisher was already well known for that kind of nonsense, the original development company was the target of a hostile takeover, they didn't hire any of the original KSP team, they didn't have the original KSP team on call to help work out known issues, and they didn't even really get any of the community members involved until, what, 6 months before the EA launch? Sure, on the _surface_ they seem similar, but there is a very clear difference in kind here IMO.
@@sanjay_swain You... clearly don't understand how any of this works. Literally the only legal argument that can be made here is that the EULA might, _maybe_ prevent it, and even then I'm not convinced. As for "mods [being] meant as passion projects," frankly, I reject that statement in its entirety. Essentially what you've just argued is that you're entitled to experience the fruits of someone else's labor without providing any form of recompense. I wish we lived in a world where people could pursue their passions without having to worry about paying the bills, but that's not how it works. And unless and until that changes, I can't see that statement any other way.
This is really mean but I think the people who get mega emotional over this issue still eat dinosaur nuggies and get spanked by mommy. Sry not sry. The Reddit is cringe whenever this issue comes up but I understand both sides
I always pirate my KSP mods, i don’t care that i’m not supporting the developer because people like blackrack just charge too much. If it were $5 or maybe even $25 just for a one time thing i’d be fine with it and would be happy to support, but i’m not paying 5 bucks a month for a in dev mod that’ll never be finished and never stop being updated
god you're ignorant ... pay the 5 bucks, save the google link ... then you only pay once. Multiple people have mentioned this, and I believe that even Blackrack has it mentioned in one of his posts, hence why he hasn't changed the DL link.
Hot take but i think paid mods aren't a half bad idea, since it allows for modders to develop more intensive stuff quicker without incurring (as much of a) financial burden, among other reasons
It does, but then creator shouldnt mind if people were to leak his mod or in worst case break any form of DRM protection his/her's mod might have. Cause after all we are on internet
@@Alpharius.18123 oh that is constantly happening. Ofcourse that would be a crime. So I have to warn you to never Google the title of these patreons with japanese word for "monster" in romanji. Who knows what things you would be able to stumble upon!
In my case I didn't buy the PC my dad did, I don't wanna pirate the mods either cause that just feels.. Scummy, I'm fine with it for say, old retro games cause those companies both don't care about that and also dont profit off those games anyways but with such a small creator and all pirating that feels bad. Not that I would even know WHERE to get a pirated mod.
@@Sharpless2 Using the logic of your replies, that would make the mods significantly more expensive than the PC which makes no sense. I'm not a fan of paid mods, but cmon,
@@Sharpless2 Come on. Ambulance rides are not that cheap in the US. If you skip one ride, you would be able to buy a high end gaming PC, assuming that you survive.
The least the jerks could do is make sure the ram useage and fps is better,if i haven't seen this vid i would think the paid version is just as choppy and would think "they want money for this laggy piece of shit?" 😂
I'm not a fan of paid mods, but I understand the mod authors want something in return for so much work they put in.
will volumetric clouds and paid parallax ever enter the free domain?
I don't know
I mean, I wouldnt mind if creators asked for donations cause lets be real here, everyone would agree with it(Myself included). But paywalling something gives justification for one to make it free by force if need be.
@@Alpharius.18123 Would be preferable. But I think most people wouldn't donate.
@@SWDennis This could be concern, but again its better than paywalling stuff. Sure, good portion of people probably wont donate but those of them that really enjoyed the mod probably will. That and from examples of other game communities like Starsector, shady paywalling of stuff generally ends in people going in to at the very least leak stuff and make it public, or to literally go after creator
Bigger problem for me is not that they're paid at all, it's how they're paid. I will not buy a subscription for a mod.
Exactly.
I don't mind paying 5 bucks for a DLC quality mod.
But paying 5 bucks a month adds up quick. Especially as you are only paying for minor changes after the initial purchase.
Just pay it once to download it, ksp isn’t getting updated anyway
No one is stopping you from buying into the subscription for only one month to download the mod, just if you cancel your subscription after a month, you will be missing out on the most upto date versions of the mod unless if you buy into the subscription for a month periodically over time
@@BeBoBE No, it's paying for subscription, downloading and cancelling subscription and loosing access to the downloadable files in case you loose them. It's not the same as just buying it, it comes with risks and additional efforts. Call me petty, but it's my money and if I'm, supposed to pay, I can expect better service. I know patreon is a legal loophole to sell mods without legally saying they're selling them, but let's not act stupid, we know that it's just subscription selling mods.
@@LeadedHen If it's so simple why not just sell it normally? I know, the answer is a legal loophole, but here's the thing, if I'm supposed to pay, I am allowed to demand better service.
If it was a one off payment I'd be fine, it's the fact it's monthly. I'm not paying every month just to update bugs in a mod
I heard Matt Lowne say on Twitter that, if you got one month of EVE in the past but cancelled, messaging Blackrack would have him send you the updated one. Not sure if this is true, but just leaving it here.
@@SpainSpace I subbed once and downloaded an updated one
Parallax Continued has a GitHub repository so you don't need to pay actually. M$ Visual Studio is free.
You are entitled
Modder here. I've spent over 4000 hours working on mods, unpaid. Yes, it's a hobby, but it is also a lot of work. I have a full time job, so I don't depend on my mods for income, but the (admittedly small) amount I get via Patreon is helpful. Linx & Blackrack have put an enormous amount of time and effort into their two respective mods (updated Parallax and Volumetrics, respectfully). They both improve the game's graphics enormously, way beyond what this video shows. The immersion is now a real thing. Demanding that people work for free is unreasonable; if someone wants to be compensated for their time, they are totally in the right to do so. Converesly, you are absolutely in the right to refuse to pay for these mods. It's your choice. And, it's your choice if you subscribe for a month to get the mod and then cancel. It's also your choice if you decide that you want to put in the hundreds of hours of work to make your own version of these mods, improved in whichever way you want to, after which you can either release it for free, ask for donations or sell it via subscription or a flat fee. I do wonder, however, if he were to sell it for a flat fee (say, $15) with updates for a year included, would you be willing to pay that?
I'm glad Blackrack is working for the Kitten Space Agency developers because it'll mean at least volumetric clouds + eve + scatterer will be part of the game when you buy it. I know alot of people on Reddit strongly dislike that he asks for payment but the work he is doing 100% deserves to be paid for. The tragedy is that the KSP 2 studio blew through $40 million before hiring him during the last 6 months of development and that none of his work even made it to the game's final patch release. His work as a graphics engineer is worth way more than the measly amount he makes from patreon donations, and the proof is in the fact that the KSP 2 studio and Kitten Space Agency studios both hired him to work as a full time graphics engineer. That kind of salary in the industry is an easy minimum 6 figures given his skill set, and the fact that you can even buy his work for only a one off $5 payment is insanely good value.
Inb4 he makes paid mod for that game
I hope this paid mod trend doesn't expand further
Considering Blackrack is gone to work on KSA, I wouldn't expect it to
When it's worth it, I think it's valid. Mod developers are still developers, just unofficial. If they can make enough money from mods to live off, in theory they can just live off that funding and make even higher quality mods.
But if you really want something to be concerned about: Mods with ads and microtransactions aren't impossible.
@@TJPrime99paid mod isn’t the issue, you should support that. Subscription fee for using the mod is the issue.
You have to be deserving of it to charge. Normally the entire purpose of modding is free community resources, but blackrack’s atmosphere stuff is basically his trademark at this point, he got hired by PD for it before they canned KSP2, and he’s already got a new job on the KSA project for it as well. I don’t mind paying 5 measly dollars for that kind of work. But it needs to be that kind of work. Something so signature nobody else could produce something like it. I believe parallax is one of those things too, Linx puts a lot of effort into that mod and especially into mod compatibility with mainstays like outer planets and co., stockalike station parts, near/far future, etc. Plus it’s not like he’s locking everyone out entirely, he only charges for access to early builds before official public release, which is perfectly fair. Blackrack doesn’t have a free version of the clouds, but he did recently release deferred for free, which is a very beautiful visual mod. yet he didn’t put it on his patreon exclusively, so clearly he has an awareness of whether or not a mod is worth charging for. He also says you can share the volumetrics among friends and he won’t mind as long as you don’t outright undermine his sales by posting it online for free. All told, these guys aren’t grifters, they only sell what they believe is worth charging, and it’s a high bar at that, and they aren’t stingy about it either, they actively encourage you to share the file locally so that only one guy out of a group of some friends has to pay, they provide free updates, or in the case of Linx, the charge is only temporary.
My only gripe on the paying service for their mods is that they should move to a different service than Patreon for selling them. Because you can’t get updates unless you keep an active subscription, which is not worth it with the update cadence. Blackrack will send you updated files of his volumetrics mod if you prove you bought it at some point, but that’s inconvenient for both him and his buyers. They should both consider instead selling “keys” of some sort to a secure server or drive so that you can buy a one-month subscription, be rewarded a key, and then have access to that mod and any updates they put there even after the subscription ends, that way it’s an actual one-time payment for that mod.
@@LooperEpic There is no subscription fee to use these mods. There is nothing stopping you from paying the $5 for a membership, downloading the addon, and then cancelling right afterwards, making it a one-time payment. I paid $5 for volumetric clouds months ago and I've been using it ever since without paying another dime.
I can understand throwing a couple bucks at a mod creator, but paid mods and especially mod subscriptions are anti-consumer. Subscriptions in particular are really greedy.
Why is it anti-consumer? We paid for the game - and some of the mods arguably have better work than the base game has. So why shouldn't the mode creators who spent years and lots of money developing their skills sets get paid?
it’s literally an individual that took time out of their life to develop a mod. it’s not a corporation asking for $5 a month, it’s a guy trying to support his hobby, and maybe turn that hobby into an income stream. there is nothing wrong with that at all. it’s just capitalism.
Buy one month, download, and then cancel your subscription. You have now paid $5 for a stable version of the mod, if there are substantial updates in the future, repeat the process. it’s immature to whine about someone who is trying to make a living.
It’s not anti-consumer though? Such moral indignation! Just tuck yourself back into bed and sleep it off ma’am
I didn't even know there were paid mods
Volumétrica and last land scatter update
There is just one paid mod actually. "Paid" and "Open source" are mutually exclusive so Parallax doesn't count.
NOT a huge fan of paid mods, but Blackrack deserves every penny now that he's working on KSA.
With that said tho, I wish mod developers would stop putting their mods behind subscription services.
People deserve to be paid for their work, but him now working on KSA is precisely he shouldn't be charging for KSP mods any longer. He's getting paid working on KSA, so he's basically working for a competitor to KSP while making money off of KSP as well. This is a conflict of interests.
Holy shit, this video is amazingly well done, it's 1 to 1 to 1 comparisons, impeccable work!
Oder auf Deutsch:
Da kann man nicht meckern.
The issue I have is with the culture that will follow paid modding. Modding came from passionate individuals modifying games for themselves and others to enjoy. Paid modding will inevitably lead to subpar modification, specifically designed to lower frame rates and poorer quality. If someone can make a living doing that it'll be a race to the bottom and the benefits will be few and far between. There is a parallel with modern game development from big companies
No. Just no.
You obviously don't personally know anyone that offers paid mods, and have not modded anything yourself, these people are asking a pittance in compared to the work they're putting in, and you and people with uninformed opinions like yours are just exacerbating the issue.
Your poor assumptions show your opinion to be dumber than mine. I've supported the patreon of kenshi modders, spent a ridiculous amount of my time modding in that game. Went out of my way to learn how to use blender to increase my ability to mod in that game. I've been using and modding the total war series for nearly two decades, and recently released a sub mod for rtw remastered. A few years ago I wanted to have the awesome modded Iva cockpits inside one of the starship mods for KSP, and did so.
Nowhere did I say paying modders was a bad thing, just the culture that will inevitably follow mods behind a paywall. An individual pays a pittance (a low monthly support is no pittance) to a modder to use the work. 500 individuals paying a pittance one time or monthly is more than enough to make a living. It should be publicly released now and those who wish to support will do so. Putting it behind a cost will incentivize another to do it cheaper and cheaper. Cheaper will mean poorer quality over time.
If being paid is more important than the work you release, it just a job.
You will also see game Publishers in the next couple of years removing newer games from the Steam Workshop specifically to monetize their modding community. Hard to see any benefit there for modders and those who enjoy their work.
paid mods should only be early access to free mods features
A lot of them say they're early access, but when it's been years and they're getting hundreds of $ a month....
@@BobzeMovie because early access was invented for this purpose only. Selling an unfinished product but expecting full price, while also having the privilege of never having to finish the product while keeping the funds. Also, idk if you noticed but, once a game does leave early access, its usually abandoned by the creator entirely. Paid mods are horrible.
Pros of paid mods (yes even subscription): it helps support genuinely devoted mod creators and allows them focus more time on the mod.
Negatives: can lead to laziness and slow development, along side a precedent that mods SHOULD be paid for… this toxic and NOT what mods are about.
Paid mods are bad enough. Subscription based mods are pure cancer.
Very cool, thanks!
In some cases the free mods actually looked better imo.
But in the sky, and especially during sunset the the paid mods were crealy better!
i think subscribing to a patreon for a mod is fine, its not like im paying some corporation who's only goal is profit and growth; im supporting a creators hobby and in return getting early access to a mods development.
i think people who are complaining about these subscription mods just have the wrong mindset, and see it solely as a transactional thing. you are becoming a patron of a community.
plus you can always just pay once for access and then cancel.
when blackrack decides they are done working on the mods, and that they are finally finished, im assuming they will be open for everyone to use like many many other mods.
its definitely fair for mod authors to want some compensation after working on a mod for years on end, especially in the case of blackrack.
Bro is turning this into star citizen
Paid mods by themselves don’t sound as bad as the precedent they set, especially for game development/business decisions - feels not too far logically from “if you want the full game experience you have to pay more”. Do some mods enjoy enough use and popularity to arguably deserve compensation? Sure. Is that mindset capable of being taken advantage of by greedy developers? Absolutely. It’s a grey area and so it’s inevitable that some people are going to test the waters to see what they can get away with.
Yes - if a game relies on paid mods to be good, then the base game should be cheaper.
The whole paid mod thread on the KSA discord gave me ptsd. So yeah, free mods pls :)
? Where
bro i used to watch you years and years back, great to see you never wavering in loyalty to ksp
In my opinion, both of the mods make some of the kerbin surface and that of some of the other planets look worse in that they miss the point of what the areas are supposed to look like, but the free mod has more appealing clouds. (however, the paid mod takes the cake when it's a sunset)
I feel like this is one of the more advanced and transformative mods for the game and deserves payment. People get angry that they cant get the newest version for free. Just pretend it doesn't exist and get a different mod. Just because you want something, doesn't mean you deserve to have it for free just because its a 'mod'.
Kinda, but paywalling anything on internet be it arts, mods, games, videos and whatever else is enough of justification to have someone make it all public, for free to anyone else who may find it interesting. Especially if its again subscription based paywall since its cancer, and more so if you have case of shady paywall with "trust" and whatever not.
@@Alpharius.18123 no, the cancerous element here, is you and people like you. People deserve to be compensated for their work, period. If you don't like it, don't use it, but making "it all public" is a gross misuse of your fellow community member's trust, and what leads to modders just quitting the scene all together.
@@booth403 Very cool take, but you forget we are on internet where generally noone gives a crap about that sort of thing. That and generally money tends to bring out ego more than exposure and general engagement with one's works. We have those types of people on Starsector and it sure aint pretty to try and rip them off from community. Especially when they put shady paywalls, trust barriers and all other sort of nasty things.
@@booth403 That and like I said in my other comments. If guy were to do donations system OR one time payment and you have permament access to his mods+support and all that then I would say that its fair deal to pay. But subscription is big no no cause it often or not can lead into wrong directions.
It's crazy that I can get better performance than stock while using a mod that makes everything look better.
Star Citizen ships in ksp is just another level!
Didn't knew about paid version of these already fantastic mods.
I personally think it sucks, modding (if not pure hacking) of games always had been a hobby, not a job. Modders enhance their work thanks to the community feedback. Is the community paid for this free debugging/refining?
The only case a modder /mapper may earn money is if his work is bought by the game developer itself. That is fair.
ew, wrong, gross.
1, people make money on their hobbies, that's how they continue to finance said hobbies ...
2, 'Is the community paid for this free debugging/refining?" this question is pure nonsense. You're a player, you don't get paid, that's understood.
3, "The only case a modder /mapper may earn money is if his work is bought by the game developer itself. That is fair." Are you a child? if so, I'm sorry for being blunt, but any self respecting adult understands that time is money, and that anyone putting time towards a project is well within their right to expect compensation. Developers make the game, and DLC. They do not, and should not, be a part of the modding community unless its by choice and separate from their job at the company.
Last thing, modding has been always been a hobby, that is true. BUT, those of us that have been gaming since PCs literally became common in most households, are well aware that creators have been asking for compensation from the beginning. There were paid mods in the 90s and early 2000s ... the ignorance in this comment section is sickening.
You don't have to pay for it. Most modders do it for fun as a hobby, some actually use it to generate income for themselves. It's a free market; Some modders release mods for free, others ask for donation, and a few ask for it to be paid. Going from personal experience, the number of people who voluntarily donate is extremely low. For someone who is trying to live off of modding, or even pay a substantional portion of their bills, the voluntary path is unsustainable. Mods are not necessary to play the game, they only enhance the game in one or more ways. If you are happy with the game, don't mod it. If you mod it, you are knowingly using what is at best beta software which you aren't paying for. Hopefully the modder will fix the bugs, but if it's not worth it, or he loses interest, the player can either remove the mod or just use the mod with bugs. If you want better than beta software, you have to be willing to pay for it. Yes, some modders provide great mods without payment. Speaking from experience, at least half of all the mods that I've adopted over the years had one or more significant bugs which needed to be fixed. I've tried to keep up, but it's only a hobby and RL takes precedence. Given the quality of the mods from Linx and Blackrack, support them in these mods and any future endevours is, IMHO, extremely worthwile.
A tip for KSA, for the dwarf planets please don’t use the solar scope textures.
why is Jupiter in the fridge though???
Cool Zeus u got there
paying for mods is peak idiocy. making it a subscription based one is beyond tardation.
No one is twisting their arm to make these mods; they do it for fun, for prestige or the challenge. They should never charge for a mod.
on the otherhand, no one is forcing you to buy it. You don't like it, don't pay for it. But stop bitching about something you have no stake in, everyone is well within their right to ask for compensation for their work.
I don’t mind supporting modders on the class of Blackrack who literally gets offered jobs specifically for the quality of his work, I just wish he had a way of providing updates to people who have already paid him instead of using Patreon, because while you can subscribe for a month or two to give him some money then cancel, if he releases an update you have to buy a new subscription for a month to get that update.
mods should remain forever free. charging for them is disgusting
Does anybody know if the rocks in parralax paid version have collisions enabled and if it works with kcalbeloh system?
so weird hearing Star Citizen music over KSP footage
Paying for mods is a *wild* concept to me, as someone who usually works with Minecraft. People will make things and give them freely, if they can. Ads on the website you download them from can give a little bonus, but people sboukd make things for the sake of making and sharing them as much as possible. Now, I do think It's not like it's evil to try to make money from things, but I won't support it by paying for it.
nice star citizen ship
b-but parallax with grass is a vailable on Ckan...?
they're talking Parallax continued, a 3.0 version is in the works and available on Patreon.
@@booth403 oooh, right, i forgot about that thing. I hope it becomes free at some point, but i doubt it.
@@everybodyants It is planned to be free when its finished from everything I've seen, and the other versions are already, so nothing should lead you to believe otherwise.
@@booth403 that's... awesome news, thanks :D
look better, has better FPS, and uses less ram.
If I had less trust in KSP modders I would think the free version is a cryptominer.
Huh, maybe I should pay for these. All things considered they’re not that expensive
just buy the subscription once for the download and then cancel it. it’s like buying a cup of coffee for the developer that probably spend hundreds of hours on the mod.
@@applesaregoodeatings YES
God please do, this comment section is disgusting ... Glad to see that some people actually have an understanding of how the world works.
Side note, as someone that has paid for the clouds, they're well worth it. You get a performance boost if used with his FREE "deferred" mod as well, so doubly worth it in all honesty.
Can you add your system specs to the video description?
I honestly don't care that I have to use free versions of paid mods and sacrifice some fps and quality.. I'm happy with them as they are
As bummed as I am about the super nice versions being paid, I make do with what I have, and it's honestly more than enough for me
When I downloaded Parallax from CKAN I had a problem with the lack of scatters for Ike and Dres, how to fix these errors? Also I decided to look into the configs, and saw the 'billboard' parametre for the scatters, what does it mean?
The only reason I'm not paying for the new releases of Parallax is because I am already paying for stock volumetric clouds. If I wasn't already paying for volumetric clouds, I would get the more advanced version of parallax.
I live in Russia and simply do not have any ways to buy it because patreon doesn’t accept any russian cards. So I use “pirated”(I’m still not sure if I can call it pirating) versions of paid mods. The same with some other products. If you don’t allow me to pay you, why should not I pirate?
this is an edge case, and I don't think anyone would be legitimately upset with you for taking that route. Young kids and people in countries that don't have access to the paid versions, are well within their moral rights to look around for free alternatives. Just try to pay when you can, as these people do put a lot of time into the work they create.
If I had money I would get them but not only am I a kid who can't get any money but also the money I do get is not didgital so I'm stuck with free mods /:
little man, you are appreciated. Keep that mindset for when you can afford to support creators, everyone deserves to be compensated for their work, and we all understand that young homies can't always afford to do so, and that's alright :)
Das ist jetzt vielleicht eine blöde Frage, aber kann es sein, dass du Deutsch bist, da ja auch das Overlay auf Deutsch in dem Video ist?
Ja
What specs do you have? Do you think i could run this on ultra on a 3070 over 50~ish frames?
what mod adds that plane thing from the beginning
It's not mod. I build it with stock parts.
And you can find a download on KerbalX
So you have to pay for the same mod to have extra performance? Sounds unfair, both should have the same performance.
Why is it unfair? This is not some greedy developer trying to gouge money. Blackrack and Gameslinx have created truly game changing mods and the earlier versions are free. You are free to walk away.
How do I look for how much FPS am I getting?
Do you have AMD, Nvidia or even a Intel GPU?
I use my AMD software to show it.
@@SWDennis nvm i found a mod that just shows the fps it works very good :) also good video
I wouldn't mind paying even £10 for the clouds mod, but they want a monthly payment of £4.... meaning, you have to "keep paying" for a mod, so that's a NO GO for me 👎 The free version is just fine for me.
Beside all the problems that will come from monetizing mods, thing is the premium performance isn't as great to merit a paywall
If I don't pay a subscription for the vanilla game, why tf would I do it for a mod. Also, how much do you think you'll make on a game this old.
There's a huge difference between the paid clouds or not, but I'm not seeing a huge difference in the free vs paid ground.
I found a leaked version of volumetric clouds
gross, if you use it, you're a part of the problem. You realize that multiple mod creators have just stopped working on their mods because of people sharing their work for free? You want to stop getting quality mods? this is how stop getting quality mods.
@@booth403 I bought volumetrics and respect people who pirate it
I have not a problem with paying their work in general. They worked on it for years - it is fair to give them something in return. But....
I am not registered on these platforms like patreon.
I don't like to get access via a subscription.
Final question: I play KSp with RSS. What would be my profit of the paid versions?
Is there any other way to get hand on these mods?
(I mean a legal one! Not by dirty ways!)
I don't want to accuse the author of fraud in any way, but... I literally made my own free mod compilation a week ago (I don't distribute it) where everything looks the same as in your "paid" version. Moreover, sometimes I noticed that you change the terrain frames between the free and paid versions, and in most cases the difference is so small that it differs only in a couple of flora models and clouds (although the clouds, even if not the latest paid version, are freely available)
where i can buy？
I don't care about mods having to be paid but if i pay i expect them to work easy and not cause issues with other mods. You know just like normal DLC
except for the clouds i did manage to get similar results without paying.
Its so good..😢
If you do i have to assume i could well you blinker fluid smh
Nah they should tear and rip the original source code and make a new comunity game version with all of this implemented from stock.
"No you shouldn't, you can get them for free if you look around"
paid mods should be taken down on ksp ngl
I had volumétric clouds free, whiout virua
honestly even a one time thing were is buy it is bad, i'm not paying for a graphical mod
i pay for better planes in flight simulators. I would pay for a mod , a logical price considering that an amazing f35 for msfs cost around 35 euros...for parallax i would pay 10. One time purchase with support. I dont like the sub idea.
This video just saddens me because it shows what KSP 2 could have been if it was passion not suits in white ties who made the game. I can't believe squad was gutted like that.
Imagine its dlc
Bethesda space program
so huh... torrent link?
How come paid parallax looks almost consistently worse????
This framing kinda irks me. Did Blackrack/Linx say their mods are "premium"? Because last _I_ checked, the mods are Early Access/Beta - that is, they're developing what will _eventually_ become free mods, but they're giving Patreon members beta access. It's not a "paid mod," it's a reward for being a supporter. There's a pretty clear difference.
Forgive me. It appears I made the mistake of trying to inject nuance into a conversation on the Internet.
you have to pay to be able to download it (legally), so its a paid mod. Its that simple. The reward for being a supporter is literally the exact same thing.
You only need to look at KSP 2 to see how "early access" is often used as a shield against criticism for things that are never planned to actually leave it. Why would Blackrack/Linx release their mods for free when they can get people to pay for it, and get people to defend their making people to pay for it?
Yes and the game itself is not made by the modder so basically the modder is profitting off of the game developer IP directly. This will not hold in court in any way and bring down the entire modding community with it. Mods were always meant as a passion project not as a full-time job. Once money is involved companies are going to take notice.
@@Ponja__
1) That's survivorship bias. A not insignificant number of the games in my Steam library are ones I bought into when they were in EA, and are now fully-featured titles with ongoing support.
2) Early Access isn't a warning sign in-and-of itself. Most products that use EA as a shield had oh-so-many red flags before they even went into EA. To use KSP2 as an example, the publisher was already well known for that kind of nonsense, the original development company was the target of a hostile takeover, they didn't hire any of the original KSP team, they didn't have the original KSP team on call to help work out known issues, and they didn't even really get any of the community members involved until, what, 6 months before the EA launch? Sure, on the _surface_ they seem similar, but there is a very clear difference in kind here IMO.
@@sanjay_swain You... clearly don't understand how any of this works. Literally the only legal argument that can be made here is that the EULA might, _maybe_ prevent it, and even then I'm not convinced. As for "mods [being] meant as passion projects," frankly, I reject that statement in its entirety. Essentially what you've just argued is that you're entitled to experience the fruits of someone else's labor without providing any form of recompense. I wish we lived in a world where people could pursue their passions without having to worry about paying the bills, but that's not how it works. And unless and until that changes, I can't see that statement any other way.
parallax has a paid version? 😭😭
This is really mean but I think the people who get mega emotional over this issue still eat dinosaur nuggies and get spanked by mommy. Sry not sry. The Reddit is cringe whenever this issue comes up but I understand both sides
I always pirate my KSP mods, i don’t care that i’m not supporting the developer because people like blackrack just charge too much. If it were $5 or maybe even $25 just for a one time thing i’d be fine with it and would be happy to support, but i’m not paying 5 bucks a month for a in dev mod that’ll never be finished and never stop being updated
god you're ignorant ... pay the 5 bucks, save the google link ... then you only pay once. Multiple people have mentioned this, and I believe that even Blackrack has it mentioned in one of his posts, hence why he hasn't changed the DL link.
I just hate those bubbles on Eve. Free or paid. Fuhking soap world?!
It's an optional settings. You can turn them off
Meanwhile im getting mods to do the opposite
Hot take but i think paid mods aren't a half bad idea, since it allows for modders to develop more intensive stuff quicker without incurring (as much of a) financial burden, among other reasons
It does, but then creator shouldnt mind if people were to leak his mod or in worst case break any form of DRM protection his/her's mod might have. Cause after all we are on internet
Is it a one-time payment or a subscription? I assume most paid mods are a one-time payment kind of thing.
@@InvictusMatrix No, it's actually all patreon subscription in KSP case.
@@Furebel Even more reason to have one guy constantly leak it to the public
@@Alpharius.18123 oh that is constantly happening. Ofcourse that would be a crime. So I have to warn you to never Google the title of these patreons with japanese word for "monster" in romanji. Who knows what things you would be able to stumble upon!
No.
or just pirate
Money is always a better way of allocating scarce labor
So he literally just made the free version poorly optimized so that people would buy the paid one. Pretty greasy
If you can afford a PC that can run KSP with graphics mods, then you can afford to pay for the mods. LOL
"If you can afford the ambulance ride in the USA, you can afford the treatment" is what you just said.
I dont want to spend a extra ten dollars
In my case I didn't buy the PC my dad did, I don't wanna pirate the mods either cause that just feels.. Scummy, I'm fine with it for say, old retro games cause those companies both don't care about that and also dont profit off those games anyways but with such a small creator and all pirating that feels bad. Not that I would even know WHERE to get a pirated mod.
@@Sharpless2
Using the logic of your replies, that would make the mods significantly more expensive than the PC which makes no sense.
I'm not a fan of paid mods, but cmon,
@@Sharpless2 Come on. Ambulance rides are not that cheap in the US. If you skip one ride, you would be able to buy a high end gaming PC, assuming that you survive.
The least the jerks could do is make sure the ram useage and fps is better,if i haven't seen this vid i would think the paid version is just as choppy and would think "they want money for this laggy piece of shit?" 😂