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GW should have last years Winners be the judges and decide the new winner, but are not allowed to compete themselves. The Judges should only be the past winners of up to a maximum of 3 years back, so the judges is constantly switched out, but not until their 3 years is up. They can coose to decline to be a judge to be allowed to compete again, but best not to, let someone else have a chance to win for a while. And the current judges can have some down time to work for a couple of years on their own pieces.
Great video and honestly one of the best sponsored product placements I’ve seen in a long time - I actually watched that section and now I want one of those standing desks! :)
It'll probably win something when/if you take it to crystal brush. I wouldn't be surprised if GW just 'disqualified' it because they didn't think that having spider motif on anything that wasn't a warp spider would fit their brand. Which is fucking insane, but GD is a marketing event, not really a painting competition.
No, the REAL kicker on that Éomer is the base! Thats a Rohirric burial mound with the white simbelmynë flowers! That's such a beautiful, elevating detail!
I think this was a great break down also I liked that you spoke up for the ultramarine guy. We like that both you and Zumikito made sure to say how you liked the winners making sure people get they did nothing wrong. Thanks for the unemotional and logical breakdown absolutely champion mate - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow well, of course, he did nothing wrong. He entered a mini, and it won. The judges should be questioned, though, with how everything was set up and what they were looking for. It's a bit weird that so many beautiful minis painted extremely well were awarded really low or nothing at all.
except both make it implicitely clear by questioning the judgement of the judges they also question the position of the entries. they are absolutely linked no matter what they say. Zumi had clear undertones of "others are more deserving of placement/wins"
These arent the painters of old. They aren't us geeks in basements doing their best. These are skilled, fine-artists, at a level far far beyond us, the average gamer/painter. Wild to see how far things have come since the 90s
Indeed. Just go out on the mini painting forums. Hobbyists and amateurs nowadays are very often better than anything official then. Just staggerig the leaps and bounds we have made as a hobby.
We shouldn't compare painting for Golden Demon with painting a Army. In my 30 years of GW I have seen a top-notch painted Army exactly once at an Event (Were Bretonnia, each Knight/Horse a unique Pattern) otherwise mine were in the top 3 and I have been painting "Battle Ready" long before GW invented it
The standard is amazing! That said, as a basement geek who toiled for hours back in the 90s & even managed to get minis into the finalist cabinet a fair few years, there was still a gulf between what I managed and the winning entries. They were stunning - perhaps the difference is that now there is even greater depth
Well, they are skilled, yes, however, for everyone who actualpy PLAYS WH, there is almost no variant to play with ARMIES painted like this due to tremendous amount of time that goes to one miniature
When you have to choose 1 miniature out of a thousand as "the best" you're always going to have dozens, if not hundreds of entrants that could have also arguably won. Judging is hard. I know I don't have a tenth the skill of anyone who entered, and so I'm in no place to pass judgement or to criticize any entries. They're all gorgeous, and everyone should be proud of their amazing work.
People saying "It looks like the box art" like it's a bad thing. As a newer person to the hobby if I can accomplish that while following a tutorial it's a great achievement. Haters are just going to hate. Meanwhile they aren't putting themselves out there.
I saw the controversial Space marine live at the Spiel. It really looks exactly like the a box art and it was actually quite impressive. It gave me a chuckle.
Golden Demon needs to be judged by past winners and maybe members of the ‘Eavy Metal team. There needs to be some continuity in how things are judged and some feedback given, at least to those who get commended entries if not also to the finalists. All of this will elevate the competition, help ease all the controversy after, and all around make a better experience for everyone. I will never be a good enough painter to enter Golden Demon, but all of the frustration I see in the community afterwards really makes me want to advocate for a better system for GD (or just a different award altogether, away from the GW infrastructure)
Like pretty much everything else with GW, they seem to be winging it and hoping no one will notice. Such a prestigious and world famous event should be effectively ran for all entrants to feel they have something to contribute and not go away bitter and let down.
Are you any good at ? Is important to you? Does the success of matter to you? Would you demand reforms of if was observed more favorably than other teams? I think most people around the world have cases which return (No,Yes,Yes,Yes). If you can't, you probably just don't like sports (which is ok). It could be any sort of competitive endeavor.
I like this idea alot. The past winners gets to decide, but not to compete. And it should only be the past winners of a maximum of 3 years back, so the judges is constantly switched out, but no until their 3 years is up. They can coose to decline to be a judge to compete again, but best not to, let someone else have a chance to win for a while and work for a couple of years on your own piece.
6:40 - The technical skills on display here are mind blowing but I cannot get past the fact that the light makes no damn sense at all. I know it's a stylistic choice but man I had this trend
Was just thinking about a new desk. Never thought I'd compliment an in-video ad, especially on a first visit to a channel, but that demo of it lifting you was clutch. 😂
I agree whole heartedly with your closing. Yet......, clear outlines on what is and is not acceptable for judging should be upfront and honest to be 100% fair to the artists who spend 100's of hours only to find out that their masterpiece is DQ'd outright. This will also ensure a baseline for all future GldDmn going forward so all parties, artists and judges alike, have a clear understanding of what the boundaries are and could be improved as the space evolves.
Yeah, but GW doesn't care and will never give you these outlines. You can ask for it all you want. You can say it should be there all you want. It won't. Always was a lottery, always will be. IF you enter you have to deal with that and be prepared that it hits you. Or you simply don't enter.
I'm glad you gave Christian the respect he deserves for his entry, as you said it's a perfect example of the eavy metal style and technical skill counts for a lot it seems. Too many people who should know better are using his winning piece as an example of why the judges were "bad" or whatever and it's unfair on him and his achievement.
Well it quite literally IS an example of why the judging is bad. Lying to avoid feelings getting hurt is a special kind of toxic. It may suck for the dude, but that's life - he submitted an entry visible to the public. Nothing personal, we're all sure he's an adequate human being.
@@clinch4402 GD has always rated technical execution highly and from what I've heard from others who compete, the scoring is "negative", looking for imperfections to take points off. If a piece is simple yet perfect, it's hard to take any points off for the execution which is probably why it did so well. People getting mad on youtube because they or their friends didn't win seems silly in an entirely subjective artform.
@@vadersjester Irrelevant. Criticism of the judging by highlighting this piece as an example is allowed and entirely warranted. Nobody's saying "bully the participant because I don't like his entry."
@vadersjester But the issue here would be that the technical execution to do an eavy metal mini is far less than that of something with volumetric lighting, insane blends, and texture work going on. So what would be the point in doing something that is far harder and executing it extremely well, if you can do something far easier and win anyway? Not knocking the guy or the paint job, it's nicely done, and 99% can't paint like that, but as someone who can do eavy metal style I would never let it win a GD, let alone silver. The judges were terrible this time around, and every top painter has called them out in one way or another. Again, nothing against the winner.
@@lilpain1997 It's a good thing you don't judge a paintjob on how difficult it is to execute. Something of less inherent difficulty executed perfectly is just as valuable as something substantiated of more difficult techniques especially difficult done imperfectly. By selecting more difficult techniques you leave yourself open for judgement if you do not execute them perfectly. Otherwise we would give awards to people who stipple a mini with a brush with only 3 bristles over the course of 2 years because it's more difficult to do. What you are doing is conflating stylistic choice with level of execution, never the same and never will be.
I painted when I was younger and I’ve been checking on the stuff recently and the new painters are wild. They look 2 dimensional the way that an artificial light source is chosen.
Good on the kid, they earned and deserve the win for painting an _actual_ mini with excellent execution. Some of y'all are _so_ salty that a classic, meticulously painted mini won *one* award. Bottom line: I get that some people want this to be a 3d printed sculpture painting competition... but it is not. It is a *mini* painting competition for a commercial wargame that sells minis. Why wouldn't they reward someone doing classic, beautiful work on a mini as depicted on their product's box art? If you enter an art competition built around a commercial product, ya better do it for the love of the art and not for some company's validation.
While that Gollum looks _phenomenal_ I am going to have to play Devil’s advocate here - that was more than just a conversion. I feel like if you’re completely reprinting a miniature like that, at that point, it’s not a GW mini anymore, and at the end of the day this is a contest about painting GW minis - and while I think GW is definitely overly heavy-handed about that when it comes to other cases like 3rd party bits, we already know that re-creating “their” sculpts like that is a huge no-no for them. So in this specific case I don’t think I can blame them - and it feels like it should have been obvious that it was never going to fly.
This may also explain the inconsistent judging. They may be taking a hard stance against 3D printing, but then they should have made it clear in the rules. The lack of feedback from the judges is weird.
It is hard to know whether it is a painting competition or a hobby competion and what is being judged on. If Golden Demon is just a painting competition then I understand why they would bias towards just selecting models which are lightly converted or reposed, and focusing on the painting aspect of it. If it's also a conversion competition then that's another skillset, and it's fair enough to include because it's always been part of GW's "hobby" and has been encouraged. If people are just scanning or modelling things in CAD packages from scratch then that's an entirely different skillset and I think it's fair enough for them to disqualify entries for this. How can you honestly judge someone who's just painting a model straight ouf the box vs someone who has generated their own model and printed it? Is it even a GW product at that point? It just opens the floodgates to anything being entered.
You remind us that GD is a marketing event for a massive, soulless corporation, and not a celebration of painting within a very passionate hobby community. And that's tragic.
While I respect and agree with the opinion that GD should be a high stakes painting competition, I don't really get why so many people have a hard time understanding what it really is: a GW marketing tool. It is not about the best pieces, it is there to draw attention to GW figures. To keep the hobby relevant to painters. Ultimately to increase sales! When you know the judges are from the marketing department and not a bunch of classically trained veterans, how many more clues do you need? They make people spend 500+ hours to get a plastic trophy that costs $1,50 to produce. If you want a real painting competition you need to look elsewhere, or start your own, but try to see GD from a marketing perspective and it all makes sense.
@@ThomasGallinari Yes, they were amazing, but they were not GW boxart eavy metal style. With judges coming from marketing, they compare the work to what is selling boxes, not what is the best show of skill. In that seting, da Vinci could have entered the Mona Lisa and not made the finals because her bolt gun wasn't highlighted enough.
@@ThomasGallinari that purple base looks like crap and I WILL die on this hill. Mini's were excellent, better even but that base. Like really? My dude zumikito. What the F$@k were you smoking?
Wow, I haven't caught one of your videos in quite a while, but I am impressed! From what I can tell you've really upped your production game, and you seem much more comfortable and at ease in front of the camera. Well done!
Always love these reviews. A few ‘surprise’ result for me included the SM you covered in Open but also the Vehicle winner. Superb ‘box art’ results in my humble opinion. I couldn’t pull off what they did! So congrats! But they def made me feel the judging was looking deliberately for entries like those this time round. The mystery continues haha
that ultramarines and khorne battle scene is absolutely incredible. I get that it’s a different style to what GD typically prefers but I think it was the best
A really good video with a good perspective from not being there and just judging by photos. I really enjoyed your summary and the table ad was ace! Almost sexy in a weird form ... 😂
The guy who did the Gollum was only ever going to be disqualified, it wasnt a GW mini at that point. it was a conversion of a "recast" effectively. I've seen less egregious models get DQed in the past.
especiall, when this is in the rules pack "Conversions and scratch-built entries are allowed as long as they are in scale and set thematically within one of the Warhammer worlds or universes. This does not extend to entries set in the Middle-earth™ setting - showing exactly why his model was disqualified.
0:57 maybe the most interested in your highlights than the ones that have placed, because I have seen those a lot on social media already. Also nice that the ones that have not placed get some extra attention.
One thing about Zumikito I'd like to note is his entry was disqualified last year. He then posted a video giving his side of the story, which probably got his name put into a little black book (read: excel document) somewhere blacklisting him from winning. This time around, he put in another entry and they decided to just acknowledge it but was probably still blacklisted from a podium, and then he posted another video talking about that one once he found out. He's probably not going to win any as a result, as he'll be deemed 'too controversial' by GW marketing for years to come. People outside the Company may think different, but GW won't want to give him the oxygen an award would. I'd say he shouldn't really compete as this cycle is 100% going to repeat for 2025 if he does try.
Or maybe there were just dozens of phenomenal entries among over 1000 in total and his just wasn't deemed to be what the judges were looking for and now he's whining about it.
Thank you for this video! I appreciate the discussion and your tagging of the creators so that I can follow them online and take inspiration from their works ❤
GD competitions were at their best when there were multiple competitions each year (4 or 5 in the US and 4 or 5 in Europe). Now that there are maybe 3 per year, worldwide, there are a lot of great artists that go home empty handed.
All we need is the Eavy Metal team to judge again. There were not controversies with them in charge. All the controversies of late (AI, ridiculous decisions in Essen etc) were only when random guys who are not even painters decided to take over…
Im so mad about this year's Golden Demon. first time I could attend(wanted to see some pro painting, not take part) and my car got lifted the friday before saturday when I had tickets. german police somehow knew nothing and left me on my own to find it and I couldn't get it back in time to visit Essen during the event. fingers crossed next time it's in Germany again or a neighboring country
They are moving towards what is essentially an open competition with a top 3 for each category and a best of show. They should lean into this, Judge it like this and staff with sufficient judges so they aren't overlooking things.
I like the "box art style" and minimal to none-conversion/sculpting quite a bit nowadays. Used to hate it, but tastes change I guess. That said, I don't disagree with the criticism. I just have grown very fond of going with official sculpts and clean painting, like the Sword winner did.
I think it would be really cool to add a category next year for all the gw inspired individual custom kits: where entries like the gollum or the war boar would go. I think it would be cool to see if the winner was made into a custom gw mini where the winner would get some percentage of kits sold.
The LOTR category don’t get me wrong they’re nice models that won but we were robbed of that Gollum. Absolutely insane piece I hope he enters it in other events
@@hanoi_revolver so from how I understand it heavy converting and modelling is certainly possible and many winners in every other category have done large conversion work and diorama work. But GW entirely own those systems themselves as they invented them. Whereas I think because GW licenses to produce LOTR models based on the new line films, unless your conversion is quite subtle, GW doesn’t want to run the risk of creating issues with the licensing by rewarding a creation that heavily deviates from their officially licensed products.
@@hanoi_revolver The way I understood it back in the day is that, basically, every single LotR miniature that is made public in any official GW function, be it as an entry at any event or released for the game has to be pre-approved by the license holders.
Love these GD wrap up videos you do. Congrats to the winners! Always lots to be inspired by :) I’ve never entered GD and keep hearing it’s worth doing.
Whilst I appreciate the effort involved i think it should be remembered that GD is a painting competition not really a modelling or sculting one and its a fine line that GW needs to walk to keep the competition accessible to all. That was a lovely Gollum miniature but the rules on LOTR models are unchanged in 20 years now. No conversions and no scratch bulbs. I love that ultramarine miniature paint job but all the winners and many others are so amazing
Месяц назад+1
for me 3d prints already painted looks better then official miniatures and I'm not artist just some lore guy
It's a competition with judges... Just face facts: it's heavily dependant on the judges (and what they get as guidelines). The results will therefor always be unpredictable and controversial.
@@trovarion yes, I'm in agreement. Sorry if it came across wrong. I suppose I was more responding to some comments I saw on this video, rather than what you said in the end. :)
glad to hear, thank you! I wanted to condense them down a bit more and make them more concise than just the livestream being edited. The livestream still helps to collect my thoughts and put them in order, but as a video it just makes more sense.
@@trovarion Yeah I love that you still do the livestream. I personally like a longer video but most people will appreciate the shorte format. I also love that you give us more cool pieces that didnt place in the top 3 and show us more/better pictures from the once that did where needed. Good stuff man!
The categories need to have clear qualifiers and the judges clear guidelines that's available to the contenders. If there are completely different results for the same categories across competitions then it just means it's all subjective. A great analogy for this (albeit not painting related) is disciplines like swimming and gymnastics. Every move has a known points range for the contender. Repeating moves can draw you down and relying solely on nailing medium difficulty moves can still see you loose to somebody that did an OK job at them while nailing one or two hard moves as those are awarded more points. PS: I think one major issue of 3D printing is that you can't really take the print into account in a competition where it's perfectly valid to contend using solely retail parts. A sculptor (regardless if he is sculpting by hand or digitally) will put a lot of effort into the model beyond just painting it.
people thinking GD will ever be like any given sport or other competition with clear rules are dreamers. It's a marketing event by GW. They will never bother.
Trovarion, the difference between your videos last year and this year are stark and impressive. Your humility and willingness to pivot your approach to video making shows why you're such a good painter - you have an eye for seeing what precisely isn't working and rectifying any issue. You are a phenomenal creator and watching you learn and grow has been a real treat. Thank you for your hard work, wonderful video!
Well some choices were... baffling. Judging is non-consistent and no clear guidelines are present what we should be expecting. Thank you for overall analysis.
I think they need to be clearer on the “unspoken” rules. If they don’t want 3D printing, then put it in the rules. I remember back before 3D printing GW hosted or sponsored tournaments had a percentage rule for the models, for example 80% of the model had to be GW parts and if there was any question about that you had to provide evidence before hand like pictures of your conversions otherwise you were not allowed to use the figure. As you said at the end of your video people spend 100s of hours on these projects. It is utterly disappointing being disqualified without knowing why until after the fact.
I personally like the Ultramarine more than many of the "should have beens" of people with large online presences for one reason alone - it isn't overcooked. Granted, I'm not a fan of the overly perfect style in general, and I always find more interest in works where there's some more texture and grit. The Ultramarine has that. The "should have beens" are just too perfect, too reflective, too smooth, too everything. They do not evoke the universe itself, they're PURELY about one's skill of blending at the cost of composition, storytelling and overall feel. At some point these models don't even look like they're part of anything, it's just a collection of smoothest blends in the world. A skill an artist needs beyond their technical ability is also knowing when to stop, when they're overworking, overcooking, murdering a piece with detail that just makes it look worse. The Ultramarine is simple, it's crisp, it's got light dusting of weathering and it is NOT OVERDONE WITH THE BLENDS. It actually looks like it belongs in 40k rather than a car show due to how chromed up and blinged up many entries look. I'm sorry, but when I think of Nurgle, I do NOT think of beautifully smooth, vibrant colors that are blended to perfection as they transition from one tonal opposite to the other - that's the aesthetic of TZEENTCH. And sure, some years the judges might like that if it's something against the norm - but a lot of the stuff we see online has the problem of getting too samey, too obsessed with perfection and just losing the sight on what makes a good display piece.
What many people dont seem to grasp, nearly 1000(!) entries. 2 gw judges + roman is just not enough manpower to really sort that. Ofc many pieces will fly under the rader
Man, sooo many people angry at the judges. Tbh all the winners deserved to win and a lot of other painters also deserved to win. The level was insane, and at some point any decision to place one job above another would be wrong. And to all Zumikito's fans: the argument of how many hours he put into the piece is completely useless. I could spend a thousand hours painting one single mini and would never be as good as any of the winners. (I do not mean that he did or did not deserve more, my first comment applies)
For the next Golden Demon: Every paintuber should paint the same ultramarines lieutenant in the same 'eavy metal style just to screw with the rules. Just an idea
25:10 I thought I read on Nils's Instagram page that his piece was not disqualified (and removed from the cabinet), but that they just couldn't reward it (and bring a spotlight to it) in any way.
i think the ork on boar suffered due to how it was fully 3d sculpted and printed, which lets be honest 3d printing and GW havent got the best relationship that thing winning would have been a political gut punch for gw from independant sculptors making proxies that directly compete with them.
yeah I wont bash the guy as its very nicely painted, and we know most people cannot paint to box art standard at all. But winning silver??? Especially when you see what was entered into open was crazy.
As Trovarion said, it's a perfect example of the eavy metal style and technical execution carries a lot of weight. It's not my preferred style but I can see why it did well.
Because it was 'technically' perfect. Allegedly, the scoring is based on a 'perfect' baseline and points are deducted from models for flaws. Ergo, the space marine had almost no flaws, so it was awarded right behind the model with even less visible flaws.
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GW should have last years Winners be the judges and decide the new winner, but are not allowed to compete themselves. The Judges should only be the past winners of up to a maximum of 3 years back, so the judges is constantly switched out, but not until their 3 years is up. They can coose to decline to be a judge to be allowed to compete again, but best not to, let someone else have a chance to win for a while. And the current judges can have some down time to work for a couple of years on their own pieces.
Great video and honestly one of the best sponsored product placements I’ve seen in a long time - I actually watched that section and now I want one of those standing desks! :)
Thank you for the kind words! I'll be focusing on different things for the next GD and just enjoying myself.
For me its unbeliveble that the autarch dont win!!! Love this painting style.
It'll probably win something when/if you take it to crystal brush.
I wouldn't be surprised if GW just 'disqualified' it because they didn't think that having spider motif on anything that wasn't a warp spider would fit their brand. Which is fucking insane, but GD is a marketing event, not really a painting competition.
YOU
WERE
ROBBED.
Your piece was perfection.
No, the REAL kicker on that Éomer is the base! Thats a Rohirric burial mound with the white simbelmynë flowers! That's such a beautiful, elevating detail!
I think this was a great break down also I liked that you spoke up for the ultramarine guy. We like that both you and Zumikito made sure to say how you liked the winners making sure people get they did nothing wrong. Thanks for the unemotional and logical breakdown absolutely champion mate - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow well, of course, he did nothing wrong. He entered a mini, and it won. The judges should be questioned, though, with how everything was set up and what they were looking for. It's a bit weird that so many beautiful minis painted extremely well were awarded really low or nothing at all.
except both make it implicitely clear by questioning the judgement of the judges they also question the position of the entries. they are absolutely linked no matter what they say. Zumi had clear undertones of "others are more deserving of placement/wins"
These arent the painters of old. They aren't us geeks in basements doing their best. These are skilled, fine-artists, at a level far far beyond us, the average gamer/painter. Wild to see how far things have come since the 90s
Indeed. Just go out on the mini painting forums. Hobbyists and amateurs nowadays are very often better than anything official then. Just staggerig the leaps and bounds we have made as a hobby.
We shouldn't compare painting for Golden Demon with painting a Army. In my 30 years of GW I have seen a top-notch painted Army exactly once at an Event (Were Bretonnia, each Knight/Horse a unique Pattern) otherwise mine were in the top 3 and I have been painting "Battle Ready" long before GW invented it
The standard is amazing! That said, as a basement geek who toiled for hours back in the 90s & even managed to get minis into the finalist cabinet a fair few years, there was still a gulf between what I managed and the winning entries. They were stunning - perhaps the difference is that now there is even greater depth
Well, they are skilled, yes, however, for everyone who actualpy PLAYS WH, there is almost no variant to play with ARMIES painted like this due to tremendous amount of time that goes to one miniature
When you have to choose 1 miniature out of a thousand as "the best" you're always going to have dozens, if not hundreds of entrants that could have also arguably won. Judging is hard. I know I don't have a tenth the skill of anyone who entered, and so I'm in no place to pass judgement or to criticize any entries. They're all gorgeous, and everyone should be proud of their amazing work.
People saying "It looks like the box art" like it's a bad thing. As a newer person to the hobby if I can accomplish that while following a tutorial it's a great achievement. Haters are just going to hate. Meanwhile they aren't putting themselves out there.
I saw the controversial Space marine live at the Spiel. It really looks exactly like the a box art and it was actually quite impressive. It gave me a chuckle.
Really well composed and paced video, I didn't even notice 27 minutes fly by.
Wait..omg that WAS 27 minutes! 😅
Take a drink every time Trov says 'to perfection'.
Good luck to you...
I had to stop
It's like taking a drink every time Gordon Ramsay says 'beautiful' in a show
Poor zumikito...
And I don't know how you kept a straight face on that rising desk lmao
Golden Demon needs to be judged by past winners and maybe members of the ‘Eavy Metal team. There needs to be some continuity in how things are judged and some feedback given, at least to those who get commended entries if not also to the finalists. All of this will elevate the competition, help ease all the controversy after, and all around make a better experience for everyone.
I will never be a good enough painter to enter Golden Demon, but all of the frustration I see in the community afterwards really makes me want to advocate for a better system for GD (or just a different award altogether, away from the GW infrastructure)
Like pretty much everything else with GW, they seem to be winging it and hoping no one will notice. Such a prestigious and world famous event should be effectively ran for all entrants to feel they have something to contribute and not go away bitter and let down.
Are you any good at ? Is important to you? Does the success of matter to you? Would you demand reforms of if was observed more favorably than other teams?
I think most people around the world have cases which return (No,Yes,Yes,Yes). If you can't, you probably just don't like sports (which is ok). It could be any sort of competitive endeavor.
I like this idea alot. The past winners gets to decide, but not to compete. And it should only be the past winners of a maximum of 3 years back, so the judges is constantly switched out, but no until their 3 years is up. They can coose to decline to be a judge to compete again, but best not to, let someone else have a chance to win for a while and work for a couple of years on your own piece.
the judges just need to be transparent as to what they are looking for in a paint job.
Absolutely NOT the eavy metal team.
6:40 - The technical skills on display here are mind blowing but I cannot get past the fact that the light makes no damn sense at all. I know it's a stylistic choice but man I had this trend
Was just thinking about a new desk. Never thought I'd compliment an in-video ad, especially on a first visit to a channel, but that demo of it lifting you was clutch. 😂
Zumikito's piece was awesome! Sooo smooth and pops like crazy. So easy to understand everything you are looking at.
I agree whole heartedly with your closing. Yet......, clear outlines on what is and is not acceptable for judging should be upfront and honest to be 100% fair to the artists who spend 100's of hours only to find out that their masterpiece is DQ'd outright.
This will also ensure a baseline for all future GldDmn going forward so all parties, artists and judges alike, have a clear understanding of what the boundaries are and could be improved as the space evolves.
Yeah, but GW doesn't care and will never give you these outlines. You can ask for it all you want. You can say it should be there all you want. It won't. Always was a lottery, always will be. IF you enter you have to deal with that and be prepared that it hits you. Or you simply don't enter.
I'm glad you gave Christian the respect he deserves for his entry, as you said it's a perfect example of the eavy metal style and technical skill counts for a lot it seems. Too many people who should know better are using his winning piece as an example of why the judges were "bad" or whatever and it's unfair on him and his achievement.
Well it quite literally IS an example of why the judging is bad. Lying to avoid feelings getting hurt is a special kind of toxic.
It may suck for the dude, but that's life - he submitted an entry visible to the public. Nothing personal, we're all sure he's an adequate human being.
@@clinch4402 GD has always rated technical execution highly and from what I've heard from others who compete, the scoring is "negative", looking for imperfections to take points off. If a piece is simple yet perfect, it's hard to take any points off for the execution which is probably why it did so well. People getting mad on youtube because they or their friends didn't win seems silly in an entirely subjective artform.
@@vadersjester Irrelevant. Criticism of the judging by highlighting this piece as an example is allowed and entirely warranted. Nobody's saying "bully the participant because I don't like his entry."
@vadersjester But the issue here would be that the technical execution to do an eavy metal mini is far less than that of something with volumetric lighting, insane blends, and texture work going on. So what would be the point in doing something that is far harder and executing it extremely well, if you can do something far easier and win anyway? Not knocking the guy or the paint job, it's nicely done, and 99% can't paint like that, but as someone who can do eavy metal style I would never let it win a GD, let alone silver. The judges were terrible this time around, and every top painter has called them out in one way or another. Again, nothing against the winner.
@@lilpain1997 It's a good thing you don't judge a paintjob on how difficult it is to execute.
Something of less inherent difficulty executed perfectly is just as valuable as something substantiated of more difficult techniques especially difficult done imperfectly.
By selecting more difficult techniques you leave yourself open for judgement if you do not execute them perfectly.
Otherwise we would give awards to people who stipple a mini with a brush with only 3 bristles over the course of 2 years because it's more difficult to do.
What you are doing is conflating stylistic choice with level of execution, never the same and never will be.
Thank you for mentioning my squigs 😊
Your squigs are really great! Saw them on P&P and really think that they're underestimated
@@andreyp2810 thank you I really appreciate that 😁
Just want to say that I sat through your whole sponsor section. Really well made, I normally skip those sections of videos.
I painted when I was younger and I’ve been checking on the stuff recently and the new painters are wild. They look 2 dimensional the way that an artificial light source is chosen.
The best thing with the 11:50 is that it doesn't make a circle.
The entire model, base and its pose makes the symbol of tzeentch.
Good on the kid, they earned and deserve the win for painting an _actual_ mini with excellent execution. Some of y'all are _so_ salty that a classic, meticulously painted mini won *one* award. Bottom line: I get that some people want this to be a 3d printed sculpture painting competition... but it is not. It is a *mini* painting competition for a commercial wargame that sells minis. Why wouldn't they reward someone doing classic, beautiful work on a mini as depicted on their product's box art?
If you enter an art competition built around a commercial product, ya better do it for the love of the art and not for some company's validation.
Seriously most of these look like they were drawn and are box art. Excellent work
Thanks for the shootout of my Nurgle boys here and the livestream you did days ago ❤
those nurgle guys were my favourite entry overall
While that Gollum looks _phenomenal_ I am going to have to play Devil’s advocate here - that was more than just a conversion. I feel like if you’re completely reprinting a miniature like that, at that point, it’s not a GW mini anymore, and at the end of the day this is a contest about painting GW minis - and while I think GW is definitely overly heavy-handed about that when it comes to other cases like 3rd party bits, we already know that re-creating “their” sculpts like that is a huge no-no for them. So in this specific case I don’t think I can blame them - and it feels like it should have been obvious that it was never going to fly.
This may also explain the inconsistent judging. They may be taking a hard stance against 3D printing, but then they should have made it clear in the rules.
The lack of feedback from the judges is weird.
Exactly.
The thing that GW is missing out on rn is official STL sales.
It is hard to know whether it is a painting competition or a hobby competion and what is being judged on. If Golden Demon is just a painting competition then I understand why they would bias towards just selecting models which are lightly converted or reposed, and focusing on the painting aspect of it.
If it's also a conversion competition then that's another skillset, and it's fair enough to include because it's always been part of GW's "hobby" and has been encouraged.
If people are just scanning or modelling things in CAD packages from scratch then that's an entirely different skillset and I think it's fair enough for them to disqualify entries for this. How can you honestly judge someone who's just painting a model straight ouf the box vs someone who has generated their own model and printed it? Is it even a GW product at that point? It just opens the floodgates to anything being entered.
You remind us that GD is a marketing event for a massive, soulless corporation, and not a celebration of painting within a very passionate hobby community. And that's tragic.
While I respect and agree with the opinion that GD should be a high stakes painting competition, I don't really get why so many people have a hard time understanding what it really is: a GW marketing tool. It is not about the best pieces, it is there to draw attention to GW figures. To keep the hobby relevant to painters. Ultimately to increase sales! When you know the judges are from the marketing department and not a bunch of classically trained veterans, how many more clues do you need? They make people spend 500+ hours to get a plastic trophy that costs $1,50 to produce. If you want a real painting competition you need to look elsewhere, or start your own, but try to see GD from a marketing perspective and it all makes sense.
That does not explain everything. Zumikito's entries were 100% GW stock models, perfectly painted, and he got nothing.
@@ThomasGallinari Yes, they were amazing, but they were not GW boxart eavy metal style. With judges coming from marketing, they compare the work to what is selling boxes, not what is the best show of skill. In that seting, da Vinci could have entered the Mona Lisa and not made the finals because her bolt gun wasn't highlighted enough.
@@ThomasGallinari that purple base looks like crap and I WILL die on this hill.
Mini's were excellent, better even but that base.
Like really?
My dude zumikito. What the F$@k were you smoking?
Wow, I haven't caught one of your videos in quite a while, but I am impressed! From what I can tell you've really upped your production game, and you seem much more comfortable and at ease in front of the camera. Well done!
Ok that space Wolfe diorama is pure magic how do you even do that with the water?!
Clear resin
@@Yen-pg3yd yeah obviously but like, how do you do the splash
@@deeperestmeme479 cutting the resin or prebuilding the mold.
Just a whole lot of work either way.
@@deeperestmeme479magic
boxart should be its own category
Always love these reviews. A few ‘surprise’ result for me included the SM you covered in Open but also the Vehicle winner. Superb ‘box art’ results in my humble opinion. I couldn’t pull off what they did! So congrats! But they def made me feel the judging was looking deliberately for entries like those this time round. The mystery continues haha
Your golden demon videos always goes unnecessarily hard bro!
Keep em coming!
that ultramarines and khorne battle scene is absolutely incredible. I get that it’s a different style to what GD typically prefers but I think it was the best
A really good video with a good perspective from not being there and just judging by photos. I really enjoyed your summary and the table ad was ace! Almost sexy in a weird form ... 😂
The guy who did the Gollum was only ever going to be disqualified, it wasnt a GW mini at that point. it was a conversion of a "recast" effectively.
I've seen less egregious models get DQed in the past.
especiall, when this is in the rules pack "Conversions and scratch-built entries are allowed
as long as they are in scale and set thematically
within one of the Warhammer worlds or
universes. This does not extend to entries set
in the Middle-earth™ setting - showing exactly why his model was disqualified.
0:57 maybe the most interested in your highlights than the ones that have placed, because I have seen those a lot on social media already. Also nice that the ones that have not placed get some extra attention.
One thing about Zumikito I'd like to note is his entry was disqualified last year. He then posted a video giving his side of the story, which probably got his name put into a little black book (read: excel document) somewhere blacklisting him from winning. This time around, he put in another entry and they decided to just acknowledge it but was probably still blacklisted from a podium, and then he posted another video talking about that one once he found out.
He's probably not going to win any as a result, as he'll be deemed 'too controversial' by GW marketing for years to come. People outside the Company may think different, but GW won't want to give him the oxygen an award would. I'd say he shouldn't really compete as this cycle is 100% going to repeat for 2025 if he does try.
Or maybe there were just dozens of phenomenal entries among over 1000 in total and his just wasn't deemed to be what the judges were looking for and now he's whining about it.
Every model is absolutely insane!
Cheers for featuring my Wraithbaron's Making-Of video. 🙂
Think you nailed the tone here, important and helpful to mention the drama but good focus on the awesome art and no undermining those who won
Thank you for this video! I appreciate the discussion and your tagging of the creators so that I can follow them online and take inspiration from their works ❤
GD competitions were at their best when there were multiple competitions each year (4 or 5 in the US and 4 or 5 in Europe). Now that there are maybe 3 per year, worldwide, there are a lot of great artists that go home empty handed.
Love the video as usual. That advert almost killed me seeing you raise up on it laid out, smart advertising! :D
From my PoV, all these are godlike level of paintskills and they should all be very proud of their work.
All we need is the Eavy Metal team to judge again. There were not controversies with them in charge. All the controversies of late (AI, ridiculous decisions in Essen etc) were only when random guys who are not even painters decided to take over…
Yes, miniature painting came a long way since I started playing in the 80s.
Thanks for the review, Trovv, Nurgle Bless!
Clearly an executive had decision power. Absolutely marketing and branding based action.
Fantastic review brother! Intelligent commentary, and philosophy, thanks for all you do, I really appreciate your videos!
It's almost like there's subjectivity to art! Who would have thunk!!
Really happy that GW took better pictures than they did in the past.
A good video and fair take, glad you're back to the light side!
Im so mad about this year's Golden Demon. first time I could attend(wanted to see some pro painting, not take part) and my car got lifted the friday before saturday when I had tickets. german police somehow knew nothing and left me on my own to find it and I couldn't get it back in time to visit Essen during the event. fingers crossed next time it's in Germany again or a neighboring country
so much amazing work. thanks for sharing it all with us.
Great summary of the competition :)
They are moving towards what is essentially an open competition with a top 3 for each category and a best of show. They should lean into this, Judge it like this and staff with sufficient judges so they aren't overlooking things.
I like the "box art style" and minimal to none-conversion/sculpting quite a bit nowadays. Used to hate it, but tastes change I guess. That said, I don't disagree with the criticism. I just have grown very fond of going with official sculpts and clean painting, like the Sword winner did.
I think it would be really cool to add a category next year for all the gw inspired individual custom kits: where entries like the gollum or the war boar would go. I think it would be cool to see if the winner was made into a custom gw mini where the winner would get some percentage of kits sold.
The LOTR category don’t get me wrong they’re nice models that won but we were robbed of that Gollum. Absolutely insane piece I hope he enters it in other events
Yeah, the history of LotR getting robbed of great works due to the strict licensing is about as old as the LotR game itself.
Can someone explain to me what was the licensing issue with making a gollum ?
@@hanoi_revolver so from how I understand it heavy converting and modelling is certainly possible and many winners in every other category have done large conversion work and diorama work. But GW entirely own those systems themselves as they invented them. Whereas I think because GW licenses to produce LOTR models based on the new line films, unless your conversion is quite subtle, GW doesn’t want to run the risk of creating issues with the licensing by rewarding a creation that heavily deviates from their officially licensed products.
@@hanoi_revolver The way I understood it back in the day is that, basically, every single LotR miniature that is made public in any official GW function, be it as an entry at any event or released for the game has to be pre-approved by the license holders.
@@agp11001 i see thanks
Outstanding golden demon coverage. Videos like this are why you are one of the absolute best on RUclips.
Wow!! Incredible paintings!!!
Love these GD wrap up videos you do. Congrats to the winners! Always lots to be inspired by :) I’ve never entered GD and keep hearing it’s worth doing.
Finally, a mature take on the event.
Crystal Brush is the only painting competition I look forward to every year.
I have a flexi desk and it's great, especially for Gundam work
When you're approached by someone that wants to gush about or discuss your mini, it's a feeling that I don't think can be matched.
This is the GD video I've been wating for. Thanks Trov!
Hey I have a Flexispot, highly recommend! Also Richard's Eldar was a thing of beauty
Whilst I appreciate the effort involved i think it should be remembered that GD is a painting competition not really a modelling or sculting one and its a fine line that GW needs to walk to keep the competition accessible to all.
That was a lovely Gollum miniature but the rules on LOTR models are unchanged in 20 years now. No conversions and no scratch bulbs.
I love that ultramarine miniature paint job but all the winners and many others are so amazing
for me 3d prints already painted looks better then official miniatures and I'm not artist just some lore guy
It's a competition with judges... Just face facts: it's heavily dependant on the judges (and what they get as guidelines). The results will therefor always be unpredictable and controversial.
That's exactly what i said?
@@trovarion yes, I'm in agreement.
Sorry if it came across wrong. I suppose I was more responding to some comments I saw on this video, rather than what you said in the end. :)
Great video!
Great video! Always appreciate your take on GD
really liked this new form for these types of videos Trov!
glad to hear, thank you! I wanted to condense them down a bit more and make them more concise than just the livestream being edited. The livestream still helps to collect my thoughts and put them in order, but as a video it just makes more sense.
@@trovarion Yeah I love that you still do the livestream. I personally like a longer video but most people will appreciate the shorte format. I also love that you give us more cool pieces that didnt place in the top 3 and show us more/better pictures from the once that did where needed. Good stuff man!
I listen/watch your videos while I paint and got really caught off guard at 4:20 when I looked up from mini
The categories need to have clear qualifiers and the judges clear guidelines that's available to the contenders. If there are completely different results for the same categories across competitions then it just means it's all subjective. A great analogy for this (albeit not painting related) is disciplines like swimming and gymnastics. Every move has a known points range for the contender. Repeating moves can draw you down and relying solely on nailing medium difficulty moves can still see you loose to somebody that did an OK job at them while nailing one or two hard moves as those are awarded more points.
PS: I think one major issue of 3D printing is that you can't really take the print into account in a competition where it's perfectly valid to contend using solely retail parts. A sculptor (regardless if he is sculpting by hand or digitally) will put a lot of effort into the model beyond just painting it.
people thinking GD will ever be like any given sport or other competition with clear rules are dreamers. It's a marketing event by GW. They will never bother.
Trovarion, the difference between your videos last year and this year are stark and impressive. Your humility and willingness to pivot your approach to video making shows why you're such a good painter - you have an eye for seeing what precisely isn't working and rectifying any issue. You are a phenomenal creator and watching you learn and grow has been a real treat. Thank you for your hard work, wonderful video!
Apart from it being a smurf that marine was perfect, beautifully executed, like his brothers at Calth. ;)
🤣
The new more friendly Trovarion is amazing. Great video man, loved it.
Very considerate and wholesome.
Been waiting for this analysis, thanks!
14:49 Probably the best painted human portrait ever. Looks incredible.
Well said in your last 15 seconds! Have fun ❤
Dig your shirt! Happy to see you again at the VTC! 🙂
That blue Eldar was crazy good
Well some choices were... baffling. Judging is non-consistent and no clear guidelines are present what we should be expecting. Thank you for overall analysis.
I think they need to be clearer on the “unspoken” rules. If they don’t want 3D printing, then put it in the rules. I remember back before 3D printing GW hosted or sponsored tournaments had a percentage rule for the models, for example 80% of the model had to be GW parts and if there was any question about that you had to provide evidence before hand like pictures of your conversions otherwise you were not allowed to use the figure. As you said at the end of your video people spend 100s of hours on these projects. It is utterly disappointing being disqualified without knowing why until after the fact.
I genuinely CANNOT tell the different between that ultramarine and the intercessor box art
I personally like the Ultramarine more than many of the "should have beens" of people with large online presences for one reason alone - it isn't overcooked.
Granted, I'm not a fan of the overly perfect style in general, and I always find more interest in works where there's some more texture and grit. The Ultramarine has that. The "should have beens" are just too perfect, too reflective, too smooth, too everything. They do not evoke the universe itself, they're PURELY about one's skill of blending at the cost of composition, storytelling and overall feel. At some point these models don't even look like they're part of anything, it's just a collection of smoothest blends in the world. A skill an artist needs beyond their technical ability is also knowing when to stop, when they're overworking, overcooking, murdering a piece with detail that just makes it look worse.
The Ultramarine is simple, it's crisp, it's got light dusting of weathering and it is NOT OVERDONE WITH THE BLENDS. It actually looks like it belongs in 40k rather than a car show due to how chromed up and blinged up many entries look. I'm sorry, but when I think of Nurgle, I do NOT think of beautifully smooth, vibrant colors that are blended to perfection as they transition from one tonal opposite to the other - that's the aesthetic of TZEENTCH. And sure, some years the judges might like that if it's something against the norm - but a lot of the stuff we see online has the problem of getting too samey, too obsessed with perfection and just losing the sight on what makes a good display piece.
Depends if you're more interested in the artistic or lore/realistic thing
What many people dont seem to grasp, nearly 1000(!) entries. 2 gw judges + roman is just not enough manpower to really sort that. Ofc many pieces will fly under the rader
Yeah since COVID got so many people into the hobby the entries have exploded in volume.
That biceps vein in Lukas's ork!
Heres how he constructiveley criticises, objectiveley true statement- followed by "who knows though..."
Great video, well said.
Man, sooo many people angry at the judges. Tbh all the winners deserved to win and a lot of other painters also deserved to win. The level was insane, and at some point any decision to place one job above another would be wrong.
And to all Zumikito's fans: the argument of how many hours he put into the piece is completely useless. I could spend a thousand hours painting one single mini and would never be as good as any of the winners. (I do not mean that he did or did not deserve more, my first comment applies)
Weird that Arnau’s work only gotten a finalist pin for this GD.
the EXARC is truely amazing
i feel its become a diorama and basing completion more so than a miniature painting competition.
For the next Golden Demon: Every paintuber should paint the same ultramarines lieutenant in the same 'eavy metal style just to screw with the rules. Just an idea
25:10 I thought I read on Nils's Instagram page that his piece was not disqualified (and removed from the cabinet), but that they just couldn't reward it (and bring a spotlight to it) in any way.
i think the ork on boar suffered due to how it was fully 3d sculpted and printed, which lets be honest 3d printing and GW havent got the best relationship that thing winning would have been a political gut punch for gw from independant sculptors making proxies that directly compete with them.
Yeah can't blame the guy for winning with the ultramarine, but i cannot think of a single reason it should have won.
yeah I wont bash the guy as its very nicely painted, and we know most people cannot paint to box art standard at all. But winning silver??? Especially when you see what was entered into open was crazy.
As Trovarion said, it's a perfect example of the eavy metal style and technical execution carries a lot of weight. It's not my preferred style but I can see why it did well.
It didn’t win, it came second. This whole conversation is getting silly.
Because it was 'technically' perfect. Allegedly, the scoring is based on a 'perfect' baseline and points are deducted from models for flaws. Ergo, the space marine had almost no flaws, so it was awarded right behind the model with even less visible flaws.
It s just a perfect mini, can t find a single default