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[CHRIS] Tesla guarantees 70% retention for years on their batteries. I would say selling before the 8 year mark would be the way to go if you are concerned about battery replacement costs.
Tesla is VERY CLEAR in their warranty - capacity is always replaced with like capacity. There is no capacity warranty whatsoever. You get a used battery. Imagine the lawsuits if Ford replaced defective engines with used engines. You are given an engine with 15,000 miles on it during the first year of the warranty, all the way up to 120,000 miles on the engine at year 8, then nothing at all. Tesla is not a serious attempt at an electric car company, Musk is quickly exiting the car market and taking his $100 billion in compensation while the company continues hemorrhaging losses. That's why Tesla bonds are now trading with junk ratings across the board. Capital markets are entirely closed to Tesla, they must raise cash with announcements and associated pyramid deposits. Wall Street says the company has already failed. I agree with them. Only about 250 Model 3's are being produced each month, but each Model 3 will out live the company, even with their near-ideal 6% capacity fade.
I disagree. With a gasoline car, it makes total sense to ask how many miles are on the car. With an electric, that doesn't matter as much, what matters is how many years are on the battery. LiOn life is primarily time bound, but also use bound. Note the losses in Table 3: batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries Electric cars are not in a great position here, since they really need to be stored fully charged as range is an issue.
$475 For Tesla Key fob Battery and Wiperblade replacements?! The model 3 has NO KEYFOB... Only a card. It costs a whopping $5 to replace. So... are the wiperblades $235 each? Something ain't right.
They're just trying to sell Toyotas and Hondas you know how they get tax breaks and nobody else does just another trick to get you to buy Toyota and Hyundai
That's what I was thinking, suddenly I'm not so sure this guy has any idea what he's talking about. I'm not trying to replace my wipers every 2 weeks in the first year.
I forgot to mention, I have a Model S with 80,000+ miles and spend only 1,200 in maintenance for tires. No other costs. Didn't need to do the annual check up and it doesn't affect warranty either.
Kyco MC At the moment its looking like the batteries will be in good condition for about 300 - 400k miles (600k km) so he'd probably need to replace the battery in 10 - 20 years for about $13k (at current price of batteries) but if batteries go down at the rate they are it'll probaly be under 7.k and you can reuse the batteries later for Tv remotes , Toy cars , Cellphones , (or just general energy storage) for 2 - 5 years worth about 2k if prices go down Also with petroleum cars they generally get replaced every 5 - 10 years anyway and the amount that you save on electricity is ridiculous in AUS about 2.5k USD per year (at 15k miles its about 3.5k USD)
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 om telling you because my uncle asked me. His tesla roadster is 8 years old and the batteries give him a range of 30 miles.
Lots of misinformation in the comments (as usual)... here are my facts: Most of the service on the Model 3 is “suggested”, not required for keeping the warranty. The important one is replacing the battery coolant fluid after 4 years. That’s the only important service and costs $850, that’s it. Insurance costs is another strange one... before I bought a Model 3 I made sure to get a quote from my Progressive insurance. It was within $20 of my Audi A4 at around $600 a year for a guy in his 40’s. Some people reporting hundreds of dollars per month need to switch insurance companies, that’s some sort of scam. The battery should last at least 200,000 miles or more easily and this has been proven out by many older Model S’s. We don’t know how much that will cost yet, but at 200,000 miles or more, you’re talking about a 10 to 20 year old car at that point. My neighbor has 120000 miles on his Model S and the original battery has only degraded to 89% capacity at this point. He’s got plenty of life left in the battery. You just have to care for the battery meaning 1) do not supercharge often, and 2) do not charge over 90% unless you really need those extra miles the next morning.
once they implement their 'robo taxi fleet', the "cost of ownership" of a Tesla will be moot since it'll generate more money than it costs (according to Galactic Emperor Musk)
@@510jesus I assume that includes paying someone at the dealership to do it for you. It's definitely a rip off but well within the norms of the ridiculous prices auto shops charge for maintenance.
You are liyng about the Tesla service costs! It is not even required during the first year and second year is only tire rotation and cabin filter replacement!
@NotTheCIA I.think Electric parts and sensors that cost $200+ to buy and $170 /hr labor to install them. What, you think because it has less moving parts they won't break? You do know non moving parts in gas cars go bad tight? Tesla cars are hard to work on to where most people take it to the dealership. The only people who like Tesla are the fanboys who have been suckered into the marketing, which I'm not shocked. There has been a lot of brainwashing marketing lately from cars, social media ads and apps like Acorns, as if they are a smart choice. I've also noticed that tech enthusiast like these cars. If you work on cars or have any knowledge of good build quality in cars, they will all say Teslas are GARBAGE when it comes to reliability.
Two Bit da Vinci I would kindly suggest adding a correction then. There is no way that the Model 3's maintenance cost is that high. If you're using the Model S cost as a base line then you're looking at maintenance costs from a completely different top end luxury bracket - for a car that is very different in many ways.
Maintenance none existing key fob battery and wipers cost 400 a year what is gold plated wipers and are oil changes factored in Honda and suspension parts are extremely well known to need yearly replacement
The $7,500 tax credit does NOT simply disappear once a manufacturer hits 200,000 electrical vehicles. It stops being $7,500 two quarters after the manufacturer hits that mark, which it will then be $3,750 (50%), and again two quarters later it will be $1,875 (25%). Then it disappears. You did not mention this phase out at all. 4:35 The model 3 does not have a key fob battery. The card uses a passive RFID chip. Wiper blade replacements would not constitute $475. I like this video, because it feels like a lot of research was done, and the animation is nice.
[Ricky] Thanks Jon, great points all around. The phase out was something we didn't discuss, and maybe we can make a follow up video discussing it. And the key fob was also a good point. We used maintenance data for Model S, since we couldn't find any data for the 3. So that is different, but our point was simply that these companies still have a list of things they'd like you to bring in to get checked out. The honda is similar too, I have had one, drove it to 200k miles, and never did all the stuff they recommended. Just what it needed and most of it was around the 100k mark. thanks again for sharing Jon, we hope you'll subscribe, we have a lot of good stuff in the works!
Larry Smith the credit is designed to usher in new technologies lol. I don't think you understand economics there are all kinds of credits like this one to help companies get off the ground... This is something that's done to help generate jobs also
Even if the tax credit is around i still wouldn't include it. Remember that's only if you can use it. Most people max out there rrsps meaning the credit could be useless anyway. It's not free money
Thanks for the great content. I recently discovered your channel and am browsing through some of your older videos. It would be neat to see a 5 year update on this. You could compare how they held their value, how the change in gas prices affected the cost of ownership, the price of similar vehicles today.
@@hadespogi LOL It's definitely not everywhere... I paid about 340 € every year for the maintenance of my car, a mazda one, but I always paid about this price with all the other brand of car I had before, and BMW is even more expensive. But I get some info that EV (at least Tesla) doesn't have any maintenance before 2 years and it's only for the break liquid, then there is a maintenance at 4 years and it's of course break liquid again and cooling liquid for battery... Definitely far from the price announced here. So the Model 3 is even cheaper.
There are no subsidies. No tax credit. But gasoline/diesel vehicles are very highly taxed, EVs are not. And gasoline, as Einar mentioned, is very expensive - to the tune of almost $2 per liter - $7-8 per gallon.
Great video and very well produced! However, I have owned a Model S (P85D) for over 3 years and have about 45,000 miles on it. It has cost me a total of about $300 in maintenance. THERE IS NO scheduled maintenance that is required! Tesla "recommends" the maintenance checkup at the service center which you factored in. It dos NOT void or affect your warranty to forgo it. All they do is inspect the car, replace the wipers, cabin air filter, and rotate the tires. All of which you can do for far less than the "scheduled" maintenance from Tesla. Also, I do not have the home charger, nor is required it is optional. The charger that comes with the car works fine. I paid an electrician about $120 to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage to plug into and charge.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing your real world experience. Yes, the maintenance plan is optional, and is likely not to be used by many, making the TCO even lower. And on the charger, again as you stated, it is optional. We did look at L2 charger + installation costs across the US, and we went on the high end. Again, plug in your own numbers to our calculator, and determine TCO for your needs.
You can buy home charging stations anywhere from 16A to 40A giving a charge rate of between 3.8kW/h and 9.6kW/h. That would equate to times of about 13 hours and 5 hours to fully charge a 50kWh Model 3. Regarding the $1500 installation cost mentioned in the video; I was quoted $1000 to install a new 30A line from the panel by an electrician and the unit itself was $500. However, in the end I just routed the existing 40A electric cooker line into the garage (as I never intend to own one) and PG&E gave me $500 cash for switching to a time-of-day electrical rate schedule, so the overall cost can easily be negligible.
You don't need to install an L2 charger at home, and we typically charge our cars at night, at 12.5c per KWH. Plus, Teslas hold their values real good, so I am surprised that the resale value is only coming at 43%, less than the civic. In today's world, buying an ev is the smart move over an ice car imo.
You are wrong about the tax credit. You said it only works for the first 200,000 cars Tesla produces. The fact is it for the first 200,000 cars Tesla (or any company) sells in the US. There are Tesla's all over the world and those sold in any other country do not count to towards the 200,000 total.
[Ricky] Yes the US Federal Tax credit counts towards Tesla's sold in the US. Thought that was clear, but thanks for the clarification. We didn't talk about credits anywhere else because that would be a whole video by itself.
[CHRIS] Yeah, we didn't specify the US, but you are correct. However, the best numbers we could find & did cite are correct for the US (~140K sold). Here is one source: electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/
You should also add that the tax credit ‘phases out’ past the 200k cars sold in US. And in fact, for the first two quarters after the 200k landmark is hit, there is no limit to how many cars the manufacturer can sell that qualify the full $7.5k credit. After that it drops to 50%, then 33% before vanishing (I think I got the numbers right). It’s safe to assume that everyone that pre ordered the first few days (that’s about 250k orders) will get the full credit.
I was going to pile on for the tax credit error, but you beat me to it. Tesla will be able to deliver thousands of cars before the credit extinguishers completely. Great video though.
Not sure what part of the world everyone else lives in and changes wipers yearly. I live in Canada and even after using wipers on an icy windshield they still last me two years guaranteed. They also cost $10 each to replace on your own.
@@butters9274 True, but the Model 3 will also not lower in value as much as other cars. The demand is just way too high. Everybody here wants electric.
There's a guy on here, saying that Tesla brakes wear out faster because you are always using them for regenerative braking. Oh God. I had to correct a journalist depicting the new electric Nissan LEAF 2018 model, because she spoke about regenerative brakes as if they were ACTUALLY a special set of brake disks and pads and stuff?! This is depressing. For the record, the electric motor of the type any decent electric car uses, is often referred to by engineers simply as an electric machine. This is because it is both a motor and a generator. Putting power through the electric machine, makes it perform effort to turn the shaft or wheel surrounding it (if it is a motor-in-a-wheel type). In other words, it is acting as a motor. If however the machine is forced to rotate faster than the amount of power you are putting in, it acts as a net generator. Putting mechanical effort into rotating the rotor, causes a voltage to be created at the electrical terminals or wires sticking out of the electric machine, and a current will flow if some load (eg a battery willing to take charge) is connected to those wires. This is regenerative braking - the act of what on a normal combustion engine car we call 'overrun'. Of course, ONLY an electric motor can perform this dual role, in conjunction with a battery pack able to take up the energy so generated. So, for the record, for anyone wondering, there are no special regenerative brakes, there IS regenerative braking, caused by letting the vehicle be forced onward by its inertia, in what we would normally term an 'overrun' situation. EG coasting downhill, without having to use the throttle/accelerator. No special brakes, with special regen pads and regen disks! Actually, if someone would care to invent some, I will buy them and fit them to my old diesel Volvo, that would be brilliant, thanks in advance!
+Sleekitwan, yes regen braking doesn't consume brake pads it's the electric motor bring turned into a generator when you let off of the accelerator. As far as it being called overrun in an internal combustion engine, that is a first for me, I have always heard it called and or called it engine braking. Maybe it's a US thing?
Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust. When the brakes are used they will dry the discs before they start to rust and they will last longer as the rust will quite effectively "eat" into the metal of the discs when they are wet.
Be realistic though. There is no 35k Tesla and there are none in the works. Base model is $50k. It's probably not going to 35 anytime soon. The regen isn't even doing that much other than saving wear on your brakes. Batteries cannot handle giant surges coming in. IF EVs catch on, the price of electricity is going to skyrocket. The price of wall charges will go up quite a bit for quite some time, though it would eventually come down. The $1500 is assuming you have the right wiring to your garage and that assumes you have a garage. There are massive fit and finish problems with Tesla. There are many stories by Tesla lovers of endless shop and home visits to fix many, many minor but annoying problems for a $50k car and that's the cheapest one. The ones being sold are in the 70-$100k range.
+Tom Arne Knashaug, "Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. " no... no... noooo.... just... no.... I get what you are trying to say, really I do... but you are not taking some very basic fundamentals into consideration. "The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust." This, and everything after it is based on seriously misunderstanding the very basics of what is being talked about. To elaborate on that and not just say you are wrong without saying why... In order for brake discs to rust it will take a while. At least a day or longer before even beginning to show any minute surface rust (weeks before the rust will really matter in the realm of higher initial wear). Maybe if you drive through a salty puddle it will take a few hours? Ok let's say it can somehow magically rust in 2 hours. Regenerative braking doesn't stop the car. It slows the car. Well it can "stop" the car sort of if you have enough distance to actually come to a rolling stop. It would be close to what you would do by engine braking with a normal car just let off the accelerator while in gear. So... how do you stop? Well, it's a novel idea. You use the pedal next to the accelerator called a brake pedal. This applies the brake pads to the brake disc and it begins to slow the car and if held long enough with enough pressure it is very effective at stopping the car. All joking aside the point is that you need to use the brakes in order to stop. Unless you are driving cross country and never touch the brake pedal in very salty hostile weather there is very little time for "rust" to accumulate quick enough and to the degree it needs to for this to really matter. Every time you hit the brake pedal it starts the cycle all over again. I would agree with what you are saying if... and only if regenerative braking essentially replaced the brake pedal in normal everyday operation, and maybe only using the brakes to come to a complete stop once every other day. The reality is regenerative braking slows the car... not stops it. Think of all the times you press the brake pedal during a normal drive. You press it to stop, and to slow down for corners speed limit changes, etc. Now imagine you just letting off of the accelerator to slow down instead of hitting the brake pedal. You still need the actual brakes to come to a complete stop. So all the times you come to a complete stop during a normal drive will be enough to keep the discs as free of rust as driving without regenerative braking.
+mikeberg [Ricky] Sweden I think buys more Tesla’s per capital than most countries! So so we understand, how much is a gallon of petrol (3.8 liters) and how much do you pay per kWh? Thanks!!
+mikeberg [CHRIS] Yeah, we complain about gas prices in the US, but it’s really bad in Europe and clearly in Sweden. Do you know what the government incentives are in Sweden? I think Norway is the #2 market for Tesla, Just curious how other Scandinavian countries compare. And what about registration taxes, which I heard are high for regular cars?
Two Bit da Vinci I plan to get about 7500 USD back from the government. The price of the 35 kUSD M3 will be higher than the US because of customs fees and VAT it will be something like 53 kUSD, the US rate also effects this. In Norway they have removed VAT and other taxes making a Tesla model S comparably priced to a Volvo more or less, Tesla’s are selling like lemonade on a hot day!
$475 maintenance for Model 3 is so not true. Not even close. Especially just driving 15k miles. A charger capable of charging up to 30 miles per hour comes free with the Model 3 with a 14-50 adapter. I just has an electrician install my 14-50 outlet for $460 including parts. The $500 charger you can purchase from Tesla only gives you up to 44 miles per hour.
My electrician beat yours.$270 parts and labor. Consumer Reports estimated the installation cost at $2000. I don't know where these people come up with their info.
@@frankfazekas5414 My electrician beat yours. A whopping $100.00 parts + $1.00 bottle of water labor. Got two plugs and secondary panel for garage. Can now split both to 50A, or double up 1 outlet to 100A and move the second to the switchable dryer circuit. Send family members to trade school!
justinspirational Very true... I am one of the dumb owners of model 3 which cost us $58k after all the extras and are ready to trade-in which one dealership quoted us $41k
I am an owner of a Civic XT and I can tell you that I have not spend on maintenance that much as estimated in this vdo. I drive it around 13K miles a year and changed oil only once a year. For two years now my maintenance cost is about $500 total. Probably cost of washing it is half of that. The most expensive thing I had to do is to pay for a deductible when my kid crashed it. It cost me only around a thousand a year to insure. No way you can insure a Tesla for less than 1K a year. The best thing about owning an ICE car is that there is no range anxiety. Honda Civic reliability is legendary. That alone is worth my hard earned money.
[CHRIS] All good points, but to be fair, the actual maintenance on the Tesla will likely be lower too. FYI, we used projected maintenance and repiar costs from Edmunds.com for the ICE vehicles.
Yes, you have range anxiety. That's why you go to smelly ass dangerous gas stations still. I don't. I plug in at home and wake up with 250 miles ready to go and more than that if I feel like saying "SIRI, DIRECTIONS TO THE NEAREST EV GO STATION".
Honestly, until you own an EV, shut up. Just listen to the people who own an EV and take notes. You have no right to comment about something you know nothing about. You're a virgin talking about sex. Just "Shhhhhh."
Well now what if you have to travel more than 250? hmmm how long will it take to charge? On the road where will you recharge? How about the magnetic field around you body causing health problems and maybe cancer? What is the cost of replacing the battery? Can the battery catch on fire or if there is a short from a wreck will you burn? There is more but I dont have time
Video is very well done! Thanks for compiling those numbers. The Model 3 maintenance cost seems too high though, unless you replace the wiper blade once per month.
adam roy This. Tesla has no oil to replace, transmission fluid, coolant, spark plugs or wires. Just tires and window washer fluid. Tesla warranty is in a class of its own for any major expenses.
Yes, the maintenance cost is ridiculous for the Model3! And then adds in $1500 for electricity set up when I can plug into electric dryer plug for free;-)
First, very useful comparison. 1. Comparison here is for $35000 model 3 which is not available, yet. Minimum available is $49000 that adds $8000 to model3 total cost (57% depreciation). By the time real 35k car is available, tax rebates will be gone. :( 2. How long battery typically last. How much does it cost to replace/repair battery?
I think you also have to consider bodywork. My buddy was rear ended in his Model S. The car has been in the shop for 6 months and they haven't started fixing it. He needs a car to commute to work. His insurance only paid for the first 30 days of his loaner. He is paying almost $1000 for his rental. While still making payments on his Model S he had for 8 months, before it was hit. He is planning to sell it the day it is finally fixed.
The worst part is, they only give him the runaround. Otherwise he would have just bought a winter beater, instead of renting a corolla at his cost for 5 months and counting. Whenever he calls, they tell him the same thing, parts are on the way. They have even lied and told him parts were being shipped overnight. He bought this car to save money as he commutes from Seattle to Everett each day. He is going to lose thousands, from an accident that was not his fault. Tesla does not care at all about that. Know what happens if you get rear ended in a Civic? They write it off and hand you a cheque, or fix it within a week or two.
[CHRIS] I have no problem with Tesla Corp cutting out the dealer, and selling only direct to customers. But when it comes to repairs and body work, it sounds like they have really dropped the ball. The sad part is that even if there were 3rd parties that could repair Teslas, chances are, any parts availability would be even worse. It's crazy that Tesla can drag out repairs for so long and not have some legal obligation to compensate their customers.
No,the Model 3 is not the same as the Model S in terms of repair. The Model 3 body is made of steel while the Model S is aluminum. Few body shops work on aluminum bodies. This is why work on the Tesla Model S may take quite a while. Limited availability in repair shops.
If comparing a base model Civic to a base model Tesla M3 the equation might calculate differently. I think it would be a fairer comparison to look at the numbers with both vehicles fully loaded with options. I cannot think of any ICE powered car that needs refueling at 220 miles. Tesla's are known for high cost collision repairs. That can translate into high insurance rates for physical damage coverage. What about after the warranty expires? The Civic will still be able to get dealer and aftermarket parts and service long after the warranty is over. Other than eBay, where can you buy parts for Tesla's? Don't get me wrong, I like Tesla's an EV's but to think a niche vehicle will have a lower cost of ownership than an economy version of a popular mainstream vehicle just doesn't add up to me. If you want a Tesla then get one but I'm not convinced it's cheaper to own.
I own a Tesla for 3 years. The maintenance per year is ZERO (no oil/transmission/Spark plug change, no need to replace brake pads, etc.), Your maintenance assumptions are totally nonsense.
@@TheJackedJames Electric Vehicles have "Regenerative Braking" which is just using the electric motor as a brake and putting the energy back in the battery. This significantly reduces the wear on the brake pads.
Using Tesla Model S service plan is unrealistic, as the car is much more complex and requires much more work to be done to service it. Thats literally why they simplified the Model 3, and we cannot estimate something that we know nothing about. Using Model S service costs are numbers for a luxury car. They are literally numbers for a car that is over twice the price at base value. Wipers cost 400$/year? What kind of wipers are you buying. I can pay $25 for one of the best wiper brands, and i would honestly be VERY surprised if you were replacing your wipers every year. Definitely a good video, but you need to do a bit more research before suggesting some of those numbers.
The tax credit thing is really wrong. The 200k applies to US deliveries but more importantly, it expires in the quarter after the 200,000th vehicle is sold in the US. That means if vehicle number 200,000 is sold say on April 1, 2018 first day of Q2 2018), then every car delivered by Sep 30, 2018 (last day of Q3 2018) would qualify for the $7,500 credit. Further, the credit then tapers off, so Q4 '18 and Q1 '19 would each receive $3,750 credit and Q2 '19 and Q3 '19 would receive half of that amount or $1,875. I don't know whether they will cross the 200k threshold in Q1 or Q2 of 2018.
+EarlMalmsteen [Ricky] Yes we misspoke and we apologize! Thanks as others have pointed out you it it on the head. Great write up. We may make a follow up video to this
$3709 Civic maintenance fees for 5 years ? How did you come up with that number ? I own a civic and it's been 8 years except the regular oil change. I only spent $317 repairs cost for 8 years over 100k odo. Now just wondering if I get Model 3 for 2021, is that gonna be as good as civic?
I'd like to see cost of ownership over 10 years, factoring in a battery replacement around year 9. Model 3's offer an 8 year warranty on their battery. I'd also like to know more about how your maintenance costs were calculated. I'm also floored that you guys are still talking about a $35,000 Tesla Model 3 when the cheapest Model 3 currently available is $46,000, and it was $49,000 a few months ago.
Sure they do. My brother-in-law has a 2003 330CI with 153,000+ on it and runs perfect. I change the oil, brakes/rotors, and more. Very good automobile.
BMW cars are made for 4 years and 50,000 miles....when the lease is up, they die. That is why smart used BMW buyers get the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty. It costs about $2500 but will save the owner twice that. Some story about some brother in law who has 153,000 miles in his BMW from 16 years ago is NOT going to change that fact. There are plenty of BMW's out there with 150K miles...and about $15K in repair bills. You want a car that goes 150K without repair bills it has to say TOYOTA or HONDA on the hood.
@@chadhaire1711 Hey, I'm the person how's brother-in-law has the BMMR. You are right about the cost of keeping one of these cars. The heat failed a couple of months ago and the repair was $842 and had to be done by BMW. If it turned out the heater core needed replacement, it would have cost $2,300. But since I'm able to help with most other things, we've kept the cost down. If it were my car, I'd get rid of it and buy something less expensive to maintain.
4:35 about $500 for key fob battery (it's a key card) and wipers? AutoZone has those for under 30 but still great video 👏👏👏👍 next Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Toyota Prius versus Tesla model3.
[CHRIS] We used the recommended maintenance for the Model S/X, and didn't explain it very well. Many won't use the paid Tesla recommended maintenance plan, making the TCO even more compelling. We are looking at a future video, and considering several cars, but the Chevy Bolt keeps rising to the top as one contender.
I'm leasing an electric car - and your 'maintenance' costs just don't make sense - Besides, this is 'Murica - maybe 10% of electric car owners are going to follow any maintenance schedule.
Great video. I just wanted to add for people not familiar with EVs: For many families Lvl2 charger at home is not needed at all. 110 outlet is enough. If you are new to EVs, do not rush to install the charger in your garage. There is a good chance you will not need it. On trips, charging is free in hotels (according to my EV experience). This substantially reduces the cost of "fuel" in real life. If you really want to save even more, you can find free charging in most cites; use PlugShare app to find out. Maintenance is overestimated greatly in my opinion. I believe it is virtually free for the first few years, and then it is a tiny fraction vs ICE.
+SnapHost [Ricky] Good points! So it takes like over twenty hours to charge your Tesla with a 110 outlet so for some a level two charger might be more needed. Also for people in California which is one of the biggest EV markets on Earth, we get billed based on time of use. So people here will program their Tesla to fast charge during super off peak times with energy is substantially cheaper. And for maintenance, we used recommended figures because honestly for the civic it is also inflated. I’ve owned two civics my first I kept to 200k miles and it required so little maintenance. So to keep it apples and apples we just went with recommended Thanks for the comment! Hope you’ll consider subscribing we have a lot of great content planned!
The average US car drives 13000 miles a year. Tesla says you get 3 miles of range per hour on a 110 outlet with a model S, but a lot of forum people say 5 miles. It should be even more for the M3. Still, at 3 miles per hour, you need 4333 hours of charging to cover the average distance. That's a little less than 12 hours a day. So for most people that's plenty. Especially considering that any long trips will be charged at superchargers. Most super off peak run all weekend. So that's 50 hours charging right there. 110 charging only on off peak rates should be viable for an average person. TXU free nights plan is free from 9pm to 6am every day, so that's 9 hours a day. If the M3 recovers 5 miles per hour, it only needs 7 hours a day to cover average use. Drive for free! (well free fuel)
Larry Smith I didn't say you could. I said you could put more than an average day's driving back into the battery. If you empty the battery every day, then sure, you need a faster way to charge. But then you're certainly not an average driver.
charging on a 110V outlet is impractical at best, I speak from experience on that. However the description of a level 2 charger installation is a misleading term. The charger is in the car so all you are providing is a power source. We charge from a 30A dryer plug with no problem daily.
I would like a comparison done. I am an Uber/Lyft driver. I currently drive a 16 Prius II that ave 57.7. I drive roughly 6000 miles per month and has right at 100k now. Oil changes once every 10k and rotations once every 6k. Please include my current car with the Model 3 and a Chevy Bolt. Thank you in advance.
Same thing for the maintenance: I've had a model S for 3 years, got no maintenance on it whatsoever. Maintenance cost so far as been 0 (they sent a van to rotate my tires for free, and I paid maybe $100 to get a tire fixed after I got a flat once).
Actually it further surpasses it since they were actually almost doubling the national average for kWh rates. For the last almost decade the national average has been less than 13 cent per kWh. This rate cuts the cost they used for fuel by about 40% over 5 years.
I could imagine, that the selling price of the tesla will be much higher and the ICE cars will be lower. Tesla maintenance is much lower. Charging station for 1500$ is not needed for 99% of citizens. There are many spots to charge for free. If you use a referral code you get free supercharging for a view month or several thousand miles. So in reality the tesla is even much cheaper and about 250 times cooler than a civic 😂
I know this is old but as far as the free charging stations they're not nearly as readily available where I live. That probably goes for a lot of people but even still it seems to be the best value
The cost of insurance is different for the 3 cars. I heard, that the insurance for the model 3 was expensive so far. It would have been interesting to factor it in the break down costs...
Nice video, however I think your maintenance figures for the Model 3 are off. It has no key fob, so nothing to replace, which was one of your key points for why the service charge was high
+Vitz Patel [Ricky] it’s based on model S but it’s not zero. Just like the civic not everyone will perform this maintenance procedures. But to compare apples to apples we included both. Honestly I have had two civics and one I had to 200k miles and cost me very little in maintenance.
Maintenance cost of my Model S for one year at 25K miles is ZERO dollars (I don't use key fob since I have my phone with me all the time). I had washer fluid refilled once for free at a service center when they upgraded the car software to get extra 100 horsepower last week.
+Alexandre Andrianov [Ricky] yah we called out what Tesla recommends same as all cars. I have had civics in the past that required so little maintenance. But we wanted to keep it apples to apples and use recommended intervals and costs
Two Bit da Vinci think you plucked them maintenance costs out of your arse to be honest... how can a ice car have lower maintenance costs than a EV? Ice need oil and filter changes! That alone is a considerable higher cost than a few wiper blades, a few wiper blades that the ice car would still require!!! no? 🙄
Car insurance for a Tesla Model 3 is almost 2k a year. They also get real expensive to repair once they're out of warranty to the point you will probably opt to extend it, which is even more $$$. They're disposable cars and you had better have disposable income to keep up with it.
Great video! Have you done one including having rooftop solar at home with a few extra panels to remain at net zero grid power consumption while charging your Tesla, amortizing the cost of the solar array over their 35 year product life (as low as $0.03/kWh, over the 35 years without inflation)? The cost per mile really starts to drop on your own solar power, not to mention it's then a solar powered super clean car and you are your own power company and gas/fueling station!
Sounds great and the ideal situation for anyone, but the factories to make these parts will make a footprint in the environment which I believe is what Elon is trying to avoid.
@@Goddess_Char Oh you DEPLORABLE FOSSIL FUELS TROLL!! Of course making solar panels that last 35+ years and are 95+% recyclable has a carbon footprint you radically ignorant Neanderthal. And of course it's (proven to be if you weren't a denier of science like a MAGA) footprint is radically smaller than building a fossil fuels burning power plant, mining and burning fossil fuels and maintaining it for 35+ years. You Republicans should all suck a tailpipe and fade off into the sunset. And there's no such thing as gods you silly MAGA, that's mythology shit and radically bigoted.
It is interesting, that people discuss here all sort of costs, but the biggest trap of this promo video comes unnoticed. These guys are comparing a non-existent cars ($35k Model 3) with Honda Civic. Just the price differential ($45k minimum on Model 3) with Honda Civic (I would say, the price of comparable car would be closed ro $20k) makes entire video irrelevant.
Why compare to a Prius? That's a Hybrid. Totally different model and BTW I suspect that the Tesla kicks its ass but I've never run the numbers because it's so different. I did test drive a used 2017 Lexus CT200 F-Sport before I went with the Tesla 3 and the dictionary definition of no-contest, no- comparison is those two. Hybrids and EVs don't play in the same space.
I was just reflecting on the maintenance costs for my 20 year old Lexus. I replaced 4 tires last year for $100 and changed the oil myself for $13. The battery was replaced under warranty (free). I had a defective fuel pulse damper that I replaced myself for $21 and 15 min. work. The only other part failure EVER was a small thing that I could have done myself but paid a shop to do the diagnosis and replacement for about $100. Others were just consumables like wiper refills, brake pads (easy DIY) and the very rare bulb. Insurance is expensive at about $1000/yr. The "maintenance" costs described here seem very high to a frugal guy like me, but I'm old. A few years ago, they did bring a Model S to me for a drive. It was certainly impressive, at least superficially.
There's really no "work". Changing oil and knowing exactly what's going into the car is very satisfying. The one repair done by a shop was something I could easily have done and so could absolutely anyone else but didn't have the time then. Obviously I don't replace tires myself but the shop I use properly HAND TORQUES all lug nuts to factory specs. I like that! Wonder if Tesla does. Low frequency of repair rate = reliability = quality to me. I did notice that Tyler Hoover posted a video on a Tesla Model S he had bought from the father of a Tesla engineer. I think he said that the car was already on its third motor! Hope I recalled that correctly. If so, that would be shocking.
Yes, I really should have been clearer. The tires were $100 each with installation included. I change the oil every year at 5K and the part replaced was the only non-wear item like brakes, wipers, batteries. The car is my daily driver but I only put about 5k/year on it these days.
RUclipsMade’ B You don’t need a keyfob if you have your phone/keycard. If anything it’s better with the phone app, since it’s one less thing to carry around, along with most people in the 21st century carrying phones. If you can’t afford a phone, you shouldn’t get a Tesla.
I recently purchased a Tesla Model 3 here is the entire maintenance plan ready? Replace battery cooling fluid every 40 thousand miles. I can tell you after owning this car for 4 months that i will never purchase a combustion engine car for the rest of my life.
if you are in bumper to bumper traffic most of the time 0-60 time doesnt really matter. I mean its fun and all to drive fast but its not all that important to me.
Some day there will probably be a $35000 Tesla, but at the time an honest comparison would use a $44,000 price. Maybe this comparison should have used the Nissan Leaf.
What will happen to your cost of ownership calcs when you have to replace that Honda or BMW after a couple hundred thousand miles, but the Model 3 just keeps on humming?
1st off Great video not one bad thing to say at all! Now that said a couple missed points, as a car enthusiast it is not modifiable not everyone buys a car just to drive too and fro! As a avid road tripper that's something people may forget to factor in. I don't know charge time but 250 miles is about a 3-4hr trip based on 65mph and having to locate a charging station may necessitate you to alter your destination or route or get a rental. Remember gas is readily available within a mile or two of most exits. Plus to "re-fuel" you have to locate and park at a local charging station to charge up when you could of been in transit. This affects you if you also can't get a charging station installed as this can only happen if you have a house and not a rental or apartment! But never the less the most insightful video to date.... Keep up the good work!
Awesome comments!!!!! Yes you make some great points. Modifications are tougher but trust us, when EVs take off there will be an after market scene. There will be shops that offer higher output motors for your EV. Eco flashing tuning, battery pack mods etc
I bought an Ioniq for $22,000. Based on this video I am dominating the cost spectrum since I have driven 11,000 miles, spending $500 in gas and $65 in maintenance with an average fuel economy of 61.4 mpg. To me the real test is the 300,000 mile mark though.
Actually it is just the standard HEV. It has been a great car so far but I am finding out the downside to having an extremely efficient engine in the form of winter warm up time. Winter temps often drop into single digits where I live which means the car has to be driven for 10+ miles just for the engine to warm up. This translates into a lower fuel economy since the car is constantly trying running the ICE just to keep warm. My last fill up gave me only 51mpg compared to 64 during the summer...ouch. First world problems I guess though;)
Two Bit da Vinci Can you do 2019 Tesla Model 3 Base $35,000 vs 2019 Nissan Leaf E-Plus ~$33,500 vs the twins of 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric ~$30,000/2019 Kia Niro Electric ~$30,000?
I like this, thought it might be Tesla bashing but seems fair. In Europe with incentives and the price of fuel up to 10 times higher the Tesla rules this game.
I put 525 thousand kilometers on my 1993 civic and had negligible repairs needed.Only maintenance. And I still sold it for 1000 in 2013. It gave almost perfect reliability for 20 years. I got 45 miles per canadian gallon highway. This turned out to be the most extreme economical vehicle ever
And the expenses for the Tesla are ridiculous. You're not likely to need key fob replacement and if you do, it's likely covered under warranty. And there is no need for brake pad replacement until about 100,000 miles, if ever, while both of the comparison vehicles will need brakes at least once per year.
Yep, which is why many people complained about their estimates. They used the estimates from the Model s, which are way inaccurate for the Model 3. I think they just wanted to list something as a comparison. There is no data yet on the Model 3. But unfortunately, that comparison includes items that don't even exist on the Model 3.
These comparisons mean nothing to me considering fuel is about $2.69 average where i live while electric rates are 1/5th of your comparison in the video. So using your calculator where i live $2.69 / 0.05 = 53.8 * 4.4 = 236.7 miles over 3 times higher than your estimate. So this is really a biased comparison based on CA these number will fluctuate wildly depending on where you live so in my case in the midwest where electricity is $0.05 per kwh I would be stupid not to own an EV
+popeicus [Ricky] so we had two choices make one million videos for everyone’s situation, or show our process and we’ll provide calculators to let you figure it out. Also we used Texas also and Texas and California are two very big Tesla markets
Does this take account that electric cars don't need changes oil, anti freeze for radiators. Don't need to replace their brakes as often and the fact that the Tesla model S is a luxury car and there would need more costly repair then it's cheaper alternative?
[Ricky] Consider it a conservative estimate. You will have to do things like battery coolant flushes etc. so its not zero, but it is significantly reduced compared to a ICE car. great points and great comment
No, they have expensive computer controlled cooling systems for the expensive computer controlled battery filled with anti freeze. When you blow the engine in a Toyota, your corner mechanic can get a rebuilt unit installed for $5,000. When a Tesla goes to shit out of warranty, kiss your ass good bye and total the car. If you think Teslas don't fail, look up Tela Bjorn on RUclips. He's put a bunch of miles on an S and X and had a bunch of problems, including battery failures. Even the interiors wear quickly.
Teslas almost never need a brake replacement. They all use the kinetic energy from braking to charge their batteries and that significantly reduces the wear on brake pads to almost non existent. One of the major benefits of the Tesla Semi-truck.
$1500 for charger installation?? We spent $200, to have the 240 outlet wired. My wife has a 126 mile (round trip) commute. Never had an issue with home charging.
You don't need to install a high amp home charger. I use 120v home charging, and overnight charges to cover normal daily driving. For cross-country, superchargers are easily available.
Nice explaining video. Wow, although a fan of Tesla didn’t know Model 3 (when $35K option is available) has 5 year CTO of $21K. That is irresistible 👍🏻
[Ricky] No you wont, we have a 2 part series on the tesla batteries! check it out on our channel: ruclips.net/video/kGFiaWvD-KI/видео.html part 2 comes out in 2 weeks
Can't wait to see TBdV's Part 2 video on this subject, but I can also tell you that it seems that the Model S/X batteries retain around 90% of their initial capacity after 150,000-plus miles. If so, and if you typically put around 12,000 miles on your car annually, you can count on the battery still holding the vast amount of its initial charge for at least 12 years, likely more.
used to run different BMWs from 120i to M5, and let me tell you it was maintenance/repairs + petrol that's always been killing me (here in Germany we pay ~1,50 € / l) , so naturally I'm in with a reservation for a Tesla 3 - we've got VWs, too, a bit better then the BMs they are, but certainly less fun to drive ;-)
Absolutely! I secretly still dream about buying a 2002 M5, one of my favorite cars ever. But I know the service costs to keep it running will be quite high. Thanks for your comment!
[Ricky] We didn't really get into it, but one of the major drawbacks of EV's to date have been horrible resale values like the LEAF. a new Leaf for 35k is worth like 10k 3 years later, its unheard of, but Tesla has seemed to figure that out with superior technology, warranties and desirability.
Hi Ricky! If you set aside the federal tax credit, a $35k Tesla will actually cost you $35k. There are no dealer discounts on a brand new, never demo'd vehicle and no manufacturer's rebates. A $35k LEAF could easily be purchased for $28k or less after dealer discounts and Manufacturer's rebates. That's a 20% depreciation before the car is even sold to the first owner, let alone when it is actually "driven off the lot." When you consider the Tax Credit, a "$35k LEAF" actually only cost $21,500 or less to the first buyer. Depreciation from $21,500 to $10k in 3 years makes a lot more sense and in reality is what is happening.
Where can you find a Model 3 for $35k try more like $55k? Just check the Tesla site and price one out. In the long run, electric is the way to go but the market still needs more competition to bring pricing down to the $35k level.
@@TwoBitDaVinci all the Tesla fan boys are on here whining about no key fobs but you gave them the credit which is gone and only for the rich, and a $35,000 car which they made like 6 of before dropping. Oh and be sure and add tires and insurance next time.
Look on Craigslist. BMW are notorious for bad resale value due to high maintenance cost once they’re older. Also people with money to buy luxury German sedans typically don’t want used. I’d say the biggest reasons why theirs resale value is so bad
Nice advertisement for Tesla. No one has received a $35,000 model 3 yet as Tesla's marketing strategy is to deliver the higher cost model 3s first because of profitability and the need for income revenue. If you base this on the higher cost model 3s that have been delivered your outcome is very different.
I really wanted to buy a model 3; I added it plus the autopilot for 5000 for a total of 51k plus tax... even with 7500 tax credit, it is still over 45k. I ended up bought a 2015 bmw i3 Rex with 15k miles for 21k. Just own it for a few days but this probably the Best Buy ever, the i3 is amazing, i got 5.1 miles/kWh in Houston freeway and with the range extender kicked in seamlessly. The i3 Rex range is 120 to 130 miles so it is good for me. I can go to Austin 150 miles away easily and that is all I need... the Tesla model 3 cost ownership can’t even come close in the case
But none of the competition is in the same class. What people were buying were higher performance models of Model 3, which had no equivalent in the market. It is impossible to see a Civic or BMW 3 as the same class but in BEV, the competition is even less compelling. A Kona or Leaf is very cheaply appointed cars with few features and less performance. The fact that anyone buys Leaf now when there are far better built and equipped cars in a similar price range obviously is not paying attention.
So throughout the video you show the costs for California and Texas, but at the conclusion (8:35) you only show the cost per year for California (highest cost). You also didn't explain why you choose California and Texas for fuelcosts. Furthermore, no source to the five percent yearly increase.
[RIcky] We have provided a calculator for you to compare prices for where you live. 5% was an arbitrary price increase, lets see 5 years from now how close we were ;)
Plus, gas increases in price historically faster than electricity, and will continue to do so even more as more diversified sources of producing electricity are coming online.
because criminalfornia is the highest taxed state in the USA, so it's a worst case scenario. They now charge the highest registration costs for EV vehicles because of lost gas taxes, they tax the living shit out of everything in that state which is why people are fleeing, except the illegals....they live free.
One thing that missing from your video cost calculation which is "INSURANCE" I read and seen lots of forum article and video that Tesla insurance relatively way higher than Honda civic due to high claim rate and expensive repair cost. Also in Australia, the insurance price and its drive away for Tesla car is almost double compare from the US.
+Gonzo Azama [Ricky] it’s also high on BMWs. But the problem is your loan and financing costs will depend greatly on your credit, and insurance will depend on your driving history, tickets, infractions. So it’s very difficult to compare.
Insurance will depend on your driving history, tickets, infractions but even with clean driving history, Tesla insurance cost more than Honda Civic. Have a look at this link: www.motorauthority.com/news/1110827_aaa-hikes-tesla-insurance-rates-due-to-higher-than-average-number-of-claims The main reason why Tesla insurance cost way more is due to Tesla repair can only be done by Tesla technician or approved technician, normal workshop would not suitable. In addition Tesla repair cost way more compare to Honda Civic.
Two Bit da Vinci you should compare insurance cost for like to like owner then it's fair. Doesn't matter about driving history, if you look at average person insurance cost for all three cars
Seems to me, being a transit tech and working around hybrid and full electric vehicles, electric vehicles don’t seem to actually live up to the promises they make. The batteries don’t last as long they claim, they go through way more tires because of the higher torque, although the regenerative braking about doubles the life of the brakes. There’s also other failures on EV vehicles that are on regular vehicles as well, wiper motors, switches, air conditioning and heating components, for some reason EV fans like to pretend these components don’t fail. And while the power trains might require less or no maintenance, when they do need repairs they are far more expensive to purchase components for. I wonder what it really costs to maintain a Tesla when you’ve had to replace a couple batteries or a couple electric motors.
We have a 2 part battery video we highly recommend you watch. They really do last a long time. Very average numbers suggest about 10-15% range degradation after 150,000-200,000 miles.
+Jacky Cheung [Ricky] it’ll take more than 24 hours to charge via a conventional outlet, so not sure I agree that it’s “optional” but yes technically ;) and maintenance for all cars is optional. I have owned two civics and they cost SO little to maintain. But to compare apples to apples we provided recommended maintenance
How long does it take to have enough charge depends on how far the owner need to travel. It is rare for the owner to travel a few hundred miles everyday and thus many EV owners are OK with the mobile EVSE. Also, with the proper adaptor, the mobile EVSE can use 200V 40A as long as it has the right outlet (sorry, I am not living in US and thus not remember how it was called). To install the outlet, it does not need $1500.
That’s true for a full charge from zero but most people drive less then Thirty miles a day you would plug it in each night so wall chargers an unnecessary upgrade for most drivers and then there’s the super charger network to cover you for quick charge ups as needed
I dont know wtf they are talking about with maintanence costs. For my dodge work vehicle (diesel) I am spending about $250 per oil change. It uses Euro L just like a gas beamer so an oil change on that beamer could be $200 or so only because it would use 4L of oil instead of 9L. A tesla is going need tires, wheel alignments and wiper blades in 5 years. Thats it.
Great video! One criticism; $1,500 for a charger is way to much. We bought a charger from Tesla for our model S that cost $500 and was only a few hundred dollars to install ($150-$200)
[Ricky] Thanks for sharing! So we looked into it, and most people paid around what you did, some paid a little more, we thought we'd go with $1500 as a catch all worst case.
Nobody keeps a BMW more than the 3/4 lease--WRONG. And NOBODY is going to keep this crapbox Tesla longer than the warranty when they see how they fall apart--something they didn't talk about in the video...something called REPAIRS of which Tesla cars have plenty--all of the electrics in the cabin will go dead in a hurry.
chad haire cuz you own one? my 2014 Porsche Cayenne was a crapbox. Tranny went out at 118K miles....@ a cost of $8800, brakes and rotors ...$3300, diesel DEF pump went out at 95K miles...~$1600 at dearship..etc u get the picture. That did not include 22 oil changes, and a $1680 transmission flush preceding the $8800 tranny. Got rid of that piece of crap and got a model X. 2 yrs later and 65k miles, 4 tires. That’s it. No oil changes. No gas stations. Brakes at 80% still. Yes I had warranty done , but mostly rubber seals on doors, windows, cv-joints where dirt got inside and the axel joint had to be replaced. This is by far one of the most reliable cars I’ve ever had. My second I have a car it was a Saturn. The irony is that both of them are American cars
@@yingnyang2889 YING: The X model has already been PROVEN to be one of the worst reliable cars on the road.....the fact you got a good one doesn't change that fact......Saturn is another turd.
I’m in Finance and this is how you do a total cost of ownership model! Awesome video too! The only critique- if at all, is to add NPV to it. But that’s me being picky. Awesome job and summary.
One thing that is being forgotten about which is going to at some point become an issue is taxes because there is Road tax on gasoline. But not on electric the government is not going to let all this money not be collected for people who own electric cars. At some point the government is going to want their money because they always get it. Not to mention the increase in electric demand is probably going to cause the price of electric to Skyrocket given that we don't have the infrastructure to support all these new electric cars. When you look at the new semi-truck that vehicle is going to require one megawatt of power in a half an hour that is a incredible amount of power that will be consumed to charge that vehicle for a 500 mile trip to give people a idea of how much power that is in my house for the entire month I only used a little over 530 kilowatts. That just starts to give you an idea of how much electric these vehicles will consume. And when you start to factor in the efficiency of electric generation and transmission of that power it's not really a more efficient than a internal combustion engine.
J Rudy but it is more efficient. Any way you look at it. Ice cars blow off 60% or more of the potential energy into the atmosphere. Electric is nearly 90% efficient putting the stored energy into work. Power generation is more efficient than and ice engine.
Its not power generation or conversion that is the problem, but energy storage. The bigger the battery, the faster the charge is discharged i.e. the big heaping car batteries inherently have difficulty maintaining a charge. Then you have the fact that the your idea of 90% efficiency is not even close to reality. A small motor is lucky to get 85% and decreases as you get to something able to move a car. Then you have charging the car(lose energy), converting it to useful conditions for the battery(lose energy), sending power to the place for charging(losing about ~20-40% of energy). That is before generating the electricity. Acting like an EV is good for the environment is delusional(even with solar and wind you have to use less energy and materials to be advantageous).
Road taxes are actually peanuts. An average car pays around $200 a year in road taxes. In my area we have toll roads, and I pay several times that every year. There is no increase in electricity demand. Appliances, lights, HVAC, etc. keep getting more efficient. Which is why electricity production dropped 1.5% in the USA last year. That is enough electricity to drive 28 million electric cars 15000 miles each. You fail to account for in the semi truck the fuel that is offset from that Megawatt used. Keep in mind that a gallon of gas contains 33.7kWh of energy. So, a Megawatt is about 30 gallons of gas. If you can make a semi truck that can drive 500 miles on 30 gallons of gas, there are about a million trucking companies that would like to buy one from you today. Transmission losses and power generation included, electric cars are still far more efficient than gasoline cars, everything included. A study has already been done on this: blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
Andrew, energy storage is not an issue. Modern Lithium Ion batteries lost very little energy over time, and most people drive their cars every day or every couple of days. The amount lost is a rounding error. And there is no linear relationship to the size of the battery and the discharge rate. Tesla doesn't use a small motor, it uses a larger motor. The efficiency is over 95%. There is no loss to useful conditions. There are only small conversion losses from DC to AC and back. The transmission losses are not 20% to 40%. The actual data estimates the Transmission and distribution losses in the USA were estimated at 6.6% in 1997 and 6.5% in 2007. Acting like EV's are good for the environment are facts, supported by actual data and research by actual scientists. It is not based on your ill informed opinion. blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
I’m interested in electric cars mainly because it’s blissful escape from bs car maintenance like: air filters, dirty oil filters, oil changes, spark plugs, valves adjustments, timing belt replacements, intakes, fuel injectors, fuel pumps, oil pumps. Anyone that works on cars knows how obnoxious these common car troubles are. Finally a car with just simple electric motors.
Yep. You're 100% right about that. I bought a Chevy Bolt EV over a year ago, and I haven't been to so much as a gas station since. I love driving by the gas station I used to pump gas into my car, every other day for 10 fucking years, rain or shine, freezing cold or miserable hot or wind storm. I literally LAUGHED so much I almost cried the first time.
[CHRIS] Too high or too low? And do you have a crystal ball prediction you would like to share? We used percentage numbers based off the Model S over time, but we won't really know on the Model 3 for another 1-3 years.
100% agree, i looked at older model S the prices are almost new prices even after a few years, if not i would buy a used one now. This is way off. Look at used Tesla costs lol
Resale value is horrible, look on eBay completed sales, you'll find plenty of Model S sold in the 40k's, that is a $100,000 car. This video talks about a $35k Model3, give us a break, there is no such thing. Quality on these cars is developing a horrendous reputation, see: seekingalpha.com/article/4203477-tesla-reached-point-return I believe in the future of the electric car, but have little confidence in Tesla, I think they are heading toward bankruptcy.
The music you play throughout the video while talking is distracting and doesn't add anything of value to the video. Consider not playing music and just sticking with the presentation.
For the first 5 years on a civic you are going to do 2 oil changes per year , change the wipers, and get new tires. Not going to be the maintenance cost described here.
Both u are morons if u really go for a tesla right NOW, within the next 5 years u will see pretty much every single car brand out there with electric cars. Dont forget that Tesla only works on the battery and power but not on reliability which is key on cars, there will be better electronic cars out soon.
Lol nice video but his depreciation of a Tesla after 5 years is comical. First off though the cost is more like 50 to 60k for the all wheel drive but the tax credits are solid thru 2018. If you can afford a Tesla the credit will help you but unless the cost of gas just plunges and stays, the Tesla value remains very high and the constant computer updates help maintain the value
Yeah base models are still about 6 months away. Depreciation should be interesting. We’ve never have a mass produced Tesla before so it’s unlikely the depreciation will be like the Model S. But we’ll do future videos as data becomes available!
Have you traded your old Tesla in to test that hypothesis? I installed a Gen1 Wall Charger for a customer in 2013 for his new Model S. Last month he had me come back to upgrade to the Gen2. He had traded in his S for the Model 3 for the extended range and some of the other newer features. He had clocked over 100K miles (we live in California:-) and they gave him $41K towards his Model 3. About the same or better- than any other luxury vehicle
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are you crazy about this crap go get a job you trump loving, ass licking genius
You forgot to mention the battery depletion over time and the cost to replace them in the Tesla. Trump for POTUS 2020!
[CHRIS] Tesla guarantees 70% retention for years on their batteries. I would say selling before the 8 year mark would be the way to go if you are concerned about battery replacement costs.
Tesla is VERY CLEAR in their warranty - capacity is always replaced with like capacity. There is no capacity warranty whatsoever. You get a used battery. Imagine the lawsuits if Ford replaced defective engines with used engines. You are given an engine with 15,000 miles on it during the first year of the warranty, all the way up to 120,000 miles on the engine at year 8, then nothing at all. Tesla is not a serious attempt at an electric car company, Musk is quickly exiting the car market and taking his $100 billion in compensation while the company continues hemorrhaging losses. That's why Tesla bonds are now trading with junk ratings across the board. Capital markets are entirely closed to Tesla, they must raise cash with announcements and associated pyramid deposits. Wall Street says the company has already failed. I agree with them. Only about 250 Model 3's are being produced each month, but each Model 3 will out live the company, even with their near-ideal 6% capacity fade.
I disagree. With a gasoline car, it makes total sense to ask how many miles are on the car. With an electric, that doesn't matter as much, what matters is how many years are on the battery. LiOn life is primarily time bound, but also use bound. Note the losses in Table 3: batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Electric cars are not in a great position here, since they really need to be stored fully charged as range is an issue.
$475 For Tesla Key fob Battery and Wiperblade replacements?! The model 3 has NO KEYFOB... Only a card. It costs a whopping $5 to replace. So... are the wiperblades $235 each? Something ain't right.
This
how easy is is to duplicate that card and it's rf-id?
@@pogo1140 not easy. There hasnt been a single stolen tesla in the world that has not been returned.
They're just trying to sell Toyotas and Hondas you know how they get tax breaks and nobody else does just another trick to get you to buy Toyota and Hyundai
That's what I was thinking, suddenly I'm not so sure this guy has any idea what he's talking about. I'm not trying to replace my wipers every 2 weeks in the first year.
I forgot to mention, I have a Model S with 80,000+ miles and spend only 1,200 in maintenance for tires. No other costs. Didn't need to do the annual check up and it doesn't affect warranty either.
How much is going to cost your battery when it dies?
Kyco MC At the moment its looking like the batteries will be in good condition for about 300 - 400k miles (600k km)
so he'd probably need to replace the battery in 10 - 20 years for about $13k (at current price of batteries) but if batteries go down at the rate they are it'll probaly be under 7.k and you can reuse the batteries later for Tv remotes , Toy cars , Cellphones , (or just general energy storage) for 2 - 5 years worth about 2k if prices go down
Also with petroleum cars they generally get replaced every 5 - 10 years anyway and the amount that you save on electricity is ridiculous in AUS about 2.5k USD per year (at 15k miles its about 3.5k USD)
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 om telling you because my uncle asked me. His tesla roadster is 8 years old and the batteries give him a range of 30 miles.
Kyco MC Tesla's Battery quality has drastically increased since the roadster. How many miles on it btw
@@mrdirtblock-minecraft8535 67,357
Lots of misinformation in the comments (as usual)... here are my facts:
Most of the service on the Model 3 is “suggested”, not required for keeping the warranty. The important one is replacing the battery coolant fluid after 4 years. That’s the only important service and costs $850, that’s it.
Insurance costs is another strange one... before I bought a Model 3 I made sure to get a quote from my Progressive insurance. It was within $20 of my Audi A4 at around $600 a year for a guy in his 40’s. Some people reporting hundreds of dollars per month need to switch insurance companies, that’s some sort of scam.
The battery should last at least 200,000 miles or more easily and this has been proven out by many older Model S’s. We don’t know how much that will cost yet, but at 200,000 miles or more, you’re talking about a 10 to 20 year old car at that point. My neighbor has 120000 miles on his Model S and the original battery has only degraded to 89% capacity at this point. He’s got plenty of life left in the battery. You just have to care for the battery meaning 1) do not supercharge often, and 2) do not charge over 90% unless you really need those extra miles the next morning.
once they implement their 'robo taxi fleet', the "cost of ownership" of a Tesla will be moot since it'll generate more money than it costs (according to Galactic Emperor Musk)
$850 for a basic fluid is beyond outrageous. Imagine what it would cost for something major... We're talking $8K and above
@@510jesus I assume that includes paying someone at the dealership to do it for you. It's definitely a rip off but well within the norms of the ridiculous prices auto shops charge for maintenance.
@@510jesus Yeah wtf, can we not do that ourselves? Right to Repair and all that.
@@64fanatic My bet is there is a RUclips video on how to do it yourself. Theres one for everything else...
You are liyng about the Tesla service costs! It is not even required during the first year and second year is only tire rotation and cabin filter replacement!
Dude tire rotations need to be done at 7500 miles so that’s twice a year. That’s just for starters
@NotTheCIA I.think LOL
@William Arrington thats because we are running circles around gas cars.
Toyot
@NotTheCIA I.think Electric parts and sensors that cost $200+ to buy and $170 /hr labor to install them. What, you think because it has less moving parts they won't break? You do know non moving parts in gas cars go bad tight? Tesla cars are hard to work on to where most people take it to the dealership. The only people who like Tesla are the fanboys who have been suckered into the marketing, which I'm not shocked. There has been a lot of brainwashing marketing lately from cars, social media ads and apps like Acorns, as if they are a smart choice. I've also noticed that tech enthusiast like these cars. If you work on cars or have any knowledge of good build quality in cars, they will all say Teslas are GARBAGE when it comes to reliability.
model 3 doesn't have a key fob
[Ricky] Yes sorry many have pointed this out, we used data for the Tesla Service program for the Model S.
Two Bit da Vinci I would kindly suggest adding a correction then. There is no way that the Model 3's maintenance cost is that high.
If you're using the Model S cost as a base line then you're looking at maintenance costs from a completely different top end luxury bracket - for a car that is very different in many ways.
Maintenance none existing key fob battery and wipers cost 400 a year what is gold plated wipers and are oil changes factored in Honda and suspension parts are extremely well known to need yearly replacement
I agree. The video needs to have a correction as it is misleading at this point to customers.
PeteCorp what does that matter
The $7,500 tax credit does NOT simply disappear once a manufacturer hits 200,000 electrical vehicles. It stops being $7,500 two quarters after the manufacturer hits that mark, which it will then be $3,750 (50%), and again two quarters later it will be $1,875 (25%). Then it disappears. You did not mention this phase out at all.
4:35 The model 3 does not have a key fob battery. The card uses a passive RFID chip. Wiper blade replacements would not constitute $475.
I like this video, because it feels like a lot of research was done, and the animation is nice.
[Ricky] Thanks Jon, great points all around. The phase out was something we didn't discuss, and maybe we can make a follow up video discussing it. And the key fob was also a good point. We used maintenance data for Model S, since we couldn't find any data for the 3. So that is different, but our point was simply that these companies still have a list of things they'd like you to bring in to get checked out. The honda is similar too, I have had one, drove it to 200k miles, and never did all the stuff they recommended. Just what it needed and most of it was around the 100k mark.
thanks again for sharing Jon, we hope you'll subscribe, we have a lot of good stuff in the works!
No. it's going to disappear with the Senate's version of the current tax bill. I'm not paying for your EV wet dreams, pal!
Larry Smith the credit is designed to usher in new technologies lol. I don't think you understand economics there are all kinds of credits like this one to help companies get off the ground... This is something that's done to help generate jobs also
Not everyone pays 7500 in federal taxes to get the credit, Trump doesn't!
Even if the tax credit is around i still wouldn't include it. Remember that's only if you can use it. Most people max out there rrsps meaning the credit could be useless anyway. It's not free money
Thanks for the great content. I recently discovered your channel and am browsing through some of your older videos. It would be neat to see a 5 year update on this. You could compare how they held their value, how the change in gas prices affected the cost of ownership, the price of similar vehicles today.
BMW no maintenance for 2 years is laughable
When you buy a new car, maintenance is free of charge for the first 2 years
@@hadespogi Yeah it's something BMW started doing because folks were turning in their leased cars without ever having changed the oil.
Pogo HAHAHA
BMW is free to maintain for 4 years or 50000 miles... not 2. I never paid a dime before 4 years of owning a BMW.
@@hadespogi LOL It's definitely not everywhere... I paid about 340 € every year for the maintenance of my car, a mazda one, but I always paid about this price with all the other brand of car I had before, and BMW is even more expensive. But I get some info that EV (at least Tesla) doesn't have any maintenance before 2 years and it's only for the break liquid, then there is a maintenance at 4 years and it's of course break liquid again and cooling liquid for battery... Definitely far from the price announced here. So the Model 3 is even cheaper.
In Norway gas is expensive and electricity is cheap. Also no taxes on EV's. I think it's safe to say EV's are the future, and the future is now.
that's great
There are no subsidies. No tax credit.
But gasoline/diesel vehicles are very highly taxed, EVs are not. And gasoline, as Einar mentioned, is very expensive - to the tune of almost $2 per liter - $7-8 per gallon.
Great video and very well produced! However, I have owned a Model S (P85D) for over 3 years and have about 45,000 miles on it. It has cost me a total of about $300 in maintenance. THERE IS NO scheduled maintenance that is required! Tesla "recommends" the maintenance checkup at the service center which you factored in. It dos NOT void or affect your warranty to forgo it. All they do is inspect the car, replace the wipers, cabin air filter, and rotate the tires. All of which you can do for far less than the "scheduled" maintenance from Tesla. Also, I do not have the home charger, nor is required it is optional. The charger that comes with the car works fine. I paid an electrician about $120 to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in the garage to plug into and charge.
[CHRIS] Thanks for sharing your real world experience. Yes, the maintenance plan is optional, and is likely not to be used by many, making the TCO even lower. And on the charger, again as you stated, it is optional. We did look at L2 charger + installation costs across the US, and we went on the high end. Again, plug in your own numbers to our calculator, and determine TCO for your needs.
How fast can you charge at home from empty to full battery using your 220V home charging station ?
You can buy home charging stations anywhere from 16A to 40A giving a charge rate of between 3.8kW/h and 9.6kW/h. That would equate to times of about 13 hours and 5 hours to fully charge a 50kWh Model 3.
Regarding the $1500 installation cost mentioned in the video; I was quoted $1000 to install a new 30A line from the panel by an electrician and the unit itself was $500. However, in the end I just routed the existing 40A electric cooker line into the garage (as I never intend to own one) and PG&E gave me $500 cash for switching to a time-of-day electrical rate schedule, so the overall cost can easily be negligible.
How fast is the 85d? That's the model I plan on getting.
You don't need to install an L2 charger at home, and we typically charge our cars at night, at 12.5c per KWH. Plus, Teslas hold their values real good, so I am surprised that the resale value is only coming at 43%, less than the civic. In today's world, buying an ev is the smart move over an ice car imo.
You are wrong about the tax credit. You said it only works for the first 200,000 cars Tesla produces. The fact is it for the first 200,000 cars Tesla (or any company) sells in the US. There are Tesla's all over the world and those sold in any other country do not count to towards the 200,000 total.
[Ricky] Yes the US Federal Tax credit counts towards Tesla's sold in the US. Thought that was clear, but thanks for the clarification. We didn't talk about credits anywhere else because that would be a whole video by itself.
[CHRIS] Yeah, we didn't specify the US, but you are correct. However, the best numbers we could find & did cite are correct for the US (~140K sold). Here is one source: electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/
You should also add that the tax credit ‘phases out’ past the 200k cars sold in US. And in fact, for the first two quarters after the 200k landmark is hit, there is no limit to how many cars the manufacturer can sell that qualify the full $7.5k credit. After that it drops to 50%, then 33% before vanishing (I think I got the numbers right). It’s safe to assume that everyone that pre ordered the first few days (that’s about 250k orders) will get the full credit.
I was going to pile on for the tax credit error, but you beat me to it. Tesla will be able to deliver thousands of cars before the credit extinguishers completely.
Great video though.
Ioannis Nousias well said.
Not sure what part of the world everyone else lives in and changes wipers yearly. I live in Canada and even after using wipers on an icy windshield they still last me two years guaranteed. They also cost $10 each to replace on your own.
Hot temperatures kill wipers.
Can't wait until I can get a 5 year old Model 3 used for $15,000.
5 year old Model S (2013) are priced in the $35K-$40K range, not $15K...
Larry Kuch he said model 3 numb nuts
@@butters9274
Lol
@@butters9274 very well said
@@butters9274 True, but the Model 3 will also not lower in value as much as other cars. The demand is just way too high. Everybody here wants electric.
There's a guy on here, saying that Tesla brakes wear out faster because you are always using them for regenerative braking. Oh God. I had to correct a journalist depicting the new electric Nissan LEAF 2018 model, because she spoke about regenerative brakes as if they were ACTUALLY a special set of brake disks and pads and stuff?! This is depressing. For the record, the electric motor of the type any decent electric car uses, is often referred to by engineers simply as an electric machine.
This is because it is both a motor and a generator. Putting power through the electric machine, makes it perform effort to turn the shaft or wheel surrounding it (if it is a motor-in-a-wheel type). In other words, it is acting as a motor.
If however the machine is forced to rotate faster than the amount of power you are putting in, it acts as a net generator. Putting mechanical effort into rotating the rotor, causes a voltage to be created at the electrical terminals or wires sticking out of the electric machine, and a current will flow if some load (eg a battery willing to take charge) is connected to those wires.
This is regenerative braking - the act of what on a normal combustion engine car we call 'overrun'. Of course, ONLY an electric motor can perform this dual role, in conjunction with a battery pack able to take up the energy so generated.
So, for the record, for anyone wondering, there are no special regenerative brakes, there IS regenerative braking, caused by letting the vehicle be forced onward by its inertia, in what we would normally term an 'overrun' situation. EG coasting downhill, without having to use the throttle/accelerator. No special brakes, with special regen pads and regen disks! Actually, if someone would care to invent some, I will buy them and fit them to my old diesel Volvo, that would be brilliant, thanks in advance!
+Sleekitwan, yes regen braking doesn't consume brake pads it's the electric motor bring turned into a generator when you let off of the accelerator. As far as it being called overrun in an internal combustion engine, that is a first for me, I have always heard it called and or called it engine braking. Maybe it's a US thing?
If anything, regenerative braking should help your brake pads last LONGER since they no longer have to provide all of the braking forces.
Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust. When the brakes are used they will dry the discs before they start to rust and they will last longer as the rust will quite effectively "eat" into the metal of the discs when they are wet.
Be realistic though. There is no 35k Tesla and there are none in the works. Base model is $50k. It's probably not going to 35 anytime soon.
The regen isn't even doing that much other than saving wear on your brakes. Batteries cannot handle giant surges coming in.
IF EVs catch on, the price of electricity is going to skyrocket. The price of wall charges will go up quite a bit for quite some time, though it would eventually come down. The $1500 is assuming you have the right wiring to your garage and that assumes you have a garage.
There are massive fit and finish problems with Tesla. There are many stories by Tesla lovers of endless shop and home visits to fix many, many minor but annoying problems for a $50k car and that's the cheapest one. The ones being sold are in the 70-$100k range.
+Tom Arne Knashaug, "Actually when the brakes aren't used as much they will wear out faster. " no... no... noooo.... just... no.... I get what you are trying to say, really I do... but you are not taking some very basic fundamentals into consideration.
"The reason for this is that when the brake discs aren't used they will be more affected by moisture/water and start to rust."
This, and everything after it is based on seriously misunderstanding the very basics of what is being talked about. To elaborate on that and not just say you are wrong without saying why...
In order for brake discs to rust it will take a while. At least a day or longer before even beginning to show any minute surface rust (weeks before the rust will really matter in the realm of higher initial wear). Maybe if you drive through a salty puddle it will take a few hours? Ok let's say it can somehow magically rust in 2 hours. Regenerative braking doesn't stop the car. It slows the car. Well it can "stop" the car sort of if you have enough distance to actually come to a rolling stop. It would be close to what you would do by engine braking with a normal car just let off the accelerator while in gear. So... how do you stop? Well, it's a novel idea. You use the pedal next to the accelerator called a brake pedal. This applies the brake pads to the brake disc and it begins to slow the car and if held long enough with enough pressure it is very effective at stopping the car.
All joking aside the point is that you need to use the brakes in order to stop. Unless you are driving cross country and never touch the brake pedal in very salty hostile weather there is very little time for "rust" to accumulate quick enough and to the degree it needs to for this to really matter. Every time you hit the brake pedal it starts the cycle all over again.
I would agree with what you are saying if... and only if regenerative braking essentially replaced the brake pedal in normal everyday operation, and maybe only using the brakes to come to a complete stop once every other day. The reality is regenerative braking slows the car... not stops it. Think of all the times you press the brake pedal during a normal drive. You press it to stop, and to slow down for corners speed limit changes, etc. Now imagine you just letting off of the accelerator to slow down instead of hitting the brake pedal. You still need the actual brakes to come to a complete stop. So all the times you come to a complete stop during a normal drive will be enough to keep the discs as free of rust as driving without regenerative braking.
Good analysis, in Sweden the fuel cost is 2,5-3 times higher so here it’s even more a no brainer to get the tesla!
+mikeberg [Ricky] Sweden I think buys more Tesla’s per capital than most countries! So so we understand, how much is a gallon of petrol (3.8 liters) and how much do you pay per kWh? Thanks!!
+mikeberg [CHRIS] Yeah, we complain about gas prices in the US, but it’s really bad in Europe and clearly in Sweden. Do you know what the government incentives are in Sweden? I think Norway is the #2 market for Tesla, Just curious how other Scandinavian countries compare. And what about registration taxes, which I heard are high for regular cars?
Two Bit da Vinci The kWh price varors but around 10 cents USD is pretty common. A US gallon 95 octane is about 6 USD here....
Two Bit da Vinci I plan to get about 7500 USD back from the government. The price of the 35 kUSD M3 will be higher than the US because of customs fees and VAT it will be something like 53 kUSD, the US rate also effects this. In Norway they have removed VAT and other taxes making a Tesla model S comparably priced to a Volvo more or less, Tesla’s are selling like lemonade on a hot day!
+mikeberg [Ricky] wow so 60 kWh per gallon which means your model three will run about 260 miles for the same price as a gallon of gasoline!!! amazing
$475 maintenance for Model 3 is so not true. Not even close. Especially just driving 15k miles. A charger capable of charging up to 30 miles per hour comes free with the Model 3 with a 14-50 adapter. I just has an electrician install my 14-50 outlet for $460 including parts. The $500 charger you can purchase from Tesla only gives you up to 44 miles per hour.
My electrician beat yours.$270 parts and labor. Consumer Reports estimated the installation cost at $2000. I don't know where these people come up with their info.
@@frankfazekas5414 My electrician beat yours. A whopping $100.00 parts + $1.00 bottle of water labor. Got two plugs and secondary panel for garage. Can now split both to 50A, or double up 1 outlet to 100A and move the second to the switchable dryer circuit. Send family members to trade school!
@@latimer4964 exactly what I would do any 220v outlet is game, to plug in a Tesla and it cost peanuts to charge.
@@frankfazekas5414 I did it myself. About $30, because I had to buy more 50A cable than I needed (about 2 feet from the box to the outlet).
Would like to see how a Tesla 3 with all the added extras to the max (around $65K) compares too please! Thanks
[CHRIS] Thanks for the suggestion; we will consider it for a future video.
justinspirational oooh mark up central!
Or - how every other car maker/dealer rips you off
It is still leagues more expensive that BMW i3 tricked out. Only about 41k(maybe 46K if at a bad/corrupt dealership).
Musk won't be making the $35k model. High-end versions only.
justinspirational
Very true...
I am one of the dumb owners of model 3 which cost us $58k after all the extras and are ready to trade-in which one dealership quoted us $41k
Where did you get your $475 battery and wiper blades? You overpaid about $425. And that's with really good wiper blades
I am an owner of a Civic XT and I can tell you that I have not spend on maintenance that much as estimated in this vdo. I drive it around 13K miles a year and changed oil only once a year. For two years now my maintenance cost is about $500 total. Probably cost of washing it is half of that. The most expensive thing I had to do is to pay for a deductible when my kid crashed it. It cost me only around a thousand a year to insure. No way you can insure a Tesla for less than 1K a year. The best thing about owning an ICE car is that there is no range anxiety. Honda Civic reliability is legendary. That alone is worth my hard earned money.
[CHRIS] All good points, but to be fair, the actual maintenance on the Tesla will likely be lower too. FYI, we used projected maintenance and repiar costs from Edmunds.com for the ICE vehicles.
Edmunds.com is notorious for its inaccuracy in repair and operating costs and used vehicle prices.
Yes, you have range anxiety. That's why you go to smelly ass dangerous gas stations still. I don't. I plug in at home and wake up with 250 miles ready to go and more than that if I feel like saying "SIRI, DIRECTIONS TO THE NEAREST EV GO STATION".
Honestly, until you own an EV, shut up. Just listen to the people who own an EV and take notes. You have no right to comment about something you know nothing about. You're a virgin talking about sex. Just "Shhhhhh."
Well now what if you have to travel more than 250? hmmm how long will it take to charge? On the road where will you recharge? How about the magnetic field around you body causing health problems and maybe cancer? What is the cost of replacing the battery? Can the battery catch on fire or if there is a short from a wreck will you burn? There is more but I dont have time
wiper blade replacements...only for the tesla? what else ca we pretend that only the tesla needs?
I put Bosch wipers on mine? as do everyone else
well this dude that made the video probably changes an immaginary turbo and a immaginary oil and oil filter so thats where the costs come from xD
LOL
Video is very well done! Thanks for compiling those numbers.
The Model 3 maintenance cost seems too high though, unless you replace the wiper blade once per month.
adam roy This. Tesla has no oil to replace, transmission fluid, coolant, spark plugs or wires. Just tires and window washer fluid. Tesla warranty is in a class of its own for any major expenses.
Agreed. Been driving electric for a year now and ZERO maintenance costs. Just drive it and plug in at home. $12 a month to operate thus far.
Yes, the maintenance cost is ridiculous for the Model3! And then adds in $1500 for electricity set up when I can plug into electric dryer plug for free;-)
and there is no need to replace the key fob battery since the key will be your phone most of the time
Those costs are completely unrealistic, over 5 years I spent no more than $1000 on BMW maintenance (including tires, wipers, etc)
First, very useful comparison.
1. Comparison here is for $35000 model 3 which is not available, yet. Minimum available is $49000 that adds $8000 to model3 total cost (57% depreciation). By the time real 35k car is available, tax rebates will be gone. :(
2. How long battery typically last. How much does it cost to replace/repair battery?
And there should be tax rebates.....Tesla should not be subsidized by the government. They are losing money.
I think you also have to consider bodywork. My buddy was rear ended in his Model S. The car has been in the shop for 6 months and they haven't started fixing it.
He needs a car to commute to work. His insurance only paid for the first 30 days of his loaner. He is paying almost $1000 for his rental. While still making payments on his Model S he had for 8 months, before it was hit. He is planning to sell it the day it is finally fixed.
[CHRIS] This is a really good point, and others have mentioned it. I have to think the Model 3 will similar to the S in this regard.
The worst part is, they only give him the runaround. Otherwise he would have just bought a winter beater, instead of renting a corolla at his cost for 5 months and counting. Whenever he calls, they tell him the same thing, parts are on the way. They have even lied and told him parts were being shipped overnight.
He bought this car to save money as he commutes from Seattle to Everett each day. He is going to lose thousands, from an accident that was not his fault. Tesla does not care at all about that. Know what happens if you get rear ended in a Civic? They write it off and hand you a cheque, or fix it within a week or two.
[CHRIS] I have no problem with Tesla Corp cutting out the dealer, and selling only direct to customers. But when it comes to repairs and body work, it sounds like they have really dropped the ball. The sad part is that even if there were 3rd parties that could repair Teslas, chances are, any parts availability would be even worse. It's crazy that Tesla can drag out repairs for so long and not have some legal obligation to compensate their customers.
No,the Model 3 is not the same as the Model S in terms of repair. The Model 3 body is made of steel while the Model S is aluminum. Few body shops work on aluminum bodies. This is why work on the Tesla Model S may take quite a while. Limited availability in repair shops.
If comparing a base model Civic to a base model Tesla M3 the equation might calculate differently. I think it would be a fairer comparison to look at the numbers with both vehicles fully loaded with options. I cannot think of any ICE powered car that needs refueling at 220 miles. Tesla's are known for high cost collision repairs. That can translate into high insurance rates for physical damage coverage. What about after the warranty expires? The Civic will still be able to get dealer and aftermarket parts and service long after the warranty is over. Other than eBay, where can you buy parts for Tesla's? Don't get me wrong, I like Tesla's an EV's but to think a niche vehicle will have a lower cost of ownership than an economy version of a popular mainstream vehicle just doesn't add up to me. If you want a Tesla then get one but I'm not convinced it's cheaper to own.
Great point and we’re not exactly saying that. Just that they’ve come a long way
I own a Tesla for 3 years. The maintenance per year is ZERO (no oil/transmission/Spark plug change, no need to replace brake pads, etc.), Your maintenance assumptions are totally nonsense.
Aren't the brakes the same as a gas car?
Oh yes, since I have an electric car that means I don't need brakes!
@@TheJackedJames I think he means on a yearly basis
@@TheJackedJames Electric Vehicles have "Regenerative Braking" which is just using the electric motor as a brake and putting the energy back in the battery. This significantly reduces the wear on the brake pads.
Come on people. I have a SUV and the brake pads lasted 100,000 miles and they were only 200 dollars
Using Tesla Model S service plan is unrealistic, as the car is much more complex and requires much more work to be done to service it. Thats literally why they simplified the Model 3, and we cannot estimate something that we know nothing about. Using Model S service costs are numbers for a luxury car. They are literally numbers for a car that is over twice the price at base value. Wipers cost 400$/year? What kind of wipers are you buying. I can pay $25 for one of the best wiper brands, and i would honestly be VERY surprised if you were replacing your wipers every year.
Definitely a good video, but you need to do a bit more research before suggesting some of those numbers.
The tax credit thing is really wrong. The 200k applies to US deliveries but more importantly, it expires in the quarter after the 200,000th vehicle is sold in the US. That means if vehicle number 200,000 is sold say on April 1, 2018 first day of Q2 2018), then every car delivered by Sep 30, 2018 (last day of Q3 2018) would qualify for the $7,500 credit. Further, the credit then tapers off, so Q4 '18 and Q1 '19 would each receive $3,750 credit and Q2 '19 and Q3 '19 would receive half of that amount or $1,875. I don't know whether they will cross the 200k threshold in Q1 or Q2 of 2018.
+EarlMalmsteen [Ricky] Yes we misspoke and we apologize! Thanks as others have pointed out you it it on the head. Great write up. We may make a follow up video to this
$3709 Civic maintenance fees for 5 years ? How did you come up with that number ? I own a civic and it's been 8 years except the regular oil change. I only spent $317 repairs cost for 8 years over 100k odo. Now just wondering if I get Model 3 for 2021, is that gonna be as good as civic?
I'd like to see cost of ownership over 10 years, factoring in a battery replacement around year 9. Model 3's offer an 8 year warranty on their battery. I'd also like to know more about how your maintenance costs were calculated. I'm also floored that you guys are still talking about a $35,000 Tesla Model 3 when the cheapest Model 3 currently available is $46,000, and it was $49,000 a few months ago.
nobody keeps a BMW for 10 years--not even 5.
Sure they do. My brother-in-law has a 2003 330CI with 153,000+ on it and runs perfect. I change the oil, brakes/rotors, and more. Very good automobile.
BMW cars are made for 4 years and 50,000 miles....when the lease is up, they die. That is why smart used BMW buyers get the 6 year 100,000 mile warranty. It costs about $2500 but will save the owner twice that. Some story about some brother in law who has 153,000 miles in his BMW from 16 years ago is NOT going to change that fact.
There are plenty of BMW's out there with 150K miles...and about $15K in repair bills. You want a car that goes 150K without repair bills it has to say TOYOTA or HONDA on the hood.
@@chadhaire1711 Hey, I'm the person how's brother-in-law has the BMMR. You are right about the cost of keeping one of these cars. The heat failed a couple of months ago and the repair was $842 and had to be done by BMW. If it turned out the heater core needed replacement, it would have cost $2,300. But since I'm able to help with most other things, we've kept the cost down. If it were my car, I'd get rid of it and buy something less expensive to maintain.
TOYOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4:35 about $500 for key fob battery (it's a key card) and wipers? AutoZone has those for under 30 but still great video 👏👏👏👍 next Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Toyota Prius versus Tesla model3.
[CHRIS] We used the recommended maintenance for the Model S/X, and didn't explain it very well. Many won't use the paid Tesla recommended maintenance plan, making the TCO even more compelling. We are looking at a future video, and considering several cars, but the Chevy Bolt keeps rising to the top as one contender.
Two Bit da Vinci yes that would be a great video. keep up the great content fellow RUclips creators 👍liked
Tampatec dude you dont get a new keyfob when the battery runs out - you can NFC charge the batteries of any other keyfob at any key cutter
Two Bit da vinci.....Rising above imho.
I'm leasing an electric car - and your 'maintenance' costs just don't make sense - Besides, this is 'Murica - maybe 10% of electric car owners are going to follow any maintenance schedule.
Great video. I just wanted to add for people not familiar with EVs:
For many families Lvl2 charger at home is not needed at all. 110 outlet is enough. If you are new to EVs, do not rush to install the charger in your garage. There is a good chance you will not need it.
On trips, charging is free in hotels (according to my EV experience). This substantially reduces the cost of "fuel" in real life.
If you really want to save even more, you can find free charging in most cites; use PlugShare app to find out.
Maintenance is overestimated greatly in my opinion. I believe it is virtually free for the first few years, and then it is a tiny fraction vs ICE.
+SnapHost [Ricky] Good points! So it takes like over twenty hours to charge your Tesla with a 110 outlet so for some a level two charger might be more needed. Also for people in California which is one of the biggest EV markets on Earth, we get billed based on time of use. So people here will program their Tesla to fast charge during super off peak times with energy is substantially cheaper.
And for maintenance, we used recommended figures because honestly for the civic it is also inflated. I’ve owned two civics my first I kept to 200k miles and it required so little maintenance. So to keep it apples and apples we just went with recommended
Thanks for the comment! Hope you’ll consider subscribing we have a lot of great content planned!
The average US car drives 13000 miles a year. Tesla says you get 3 miles of range per hour on a 110 outlet with a model S, but a lot of forum people say 5 miles. It should be even more for the M3. Still, at 3 miles per hour, you need 4333 hours of charging to cover the average distance. That's a little less than 12 hours a day. So for most people that's plenty. Especially considering that any long trips will be charged at superchargers. Most super off peak run all weekend. So that's 50 hours charging right there. 110 charging only on off peak rates should be viable for an average person. TXU free nights plan is free from 9pm to 6am every day, so that's 9 hours a day. If the M3 recovers 5 miles per hour, it only needs 7 hours a day to cover average use. Drive for free! (well free fuel)
You can't put a full charge into any Tesla in 20 hours using 110V.
Larry Smith I didn't say you could. I said you could put more than an average day's driving back into the battery. If you empty the battery every day, then sure, you need a faster way to charge. But then you're certainly not an average driver.
charging on a 110V outlet is impractical at best, I speak from experience on that. However the description of a level 2 charger installation is a misleading term. The charger is in the car so all you are providing is a power source. We charge from a 30A dryer plug with no problem daily.
I would like a comparison done. I am an Uber/Lyft driver. I currently drive a 16 Prius II that ave 57.7. I drive roughly 6000 miles per month and has right at 100k now. Oil changes once every 10k and rotations once every 6k. Please include my current car with the Model 3 and a Chevy Bolt. Thank you in advance.
Same thing for the maintenance: I've had a model S for 3 years, got no maintenance on it whatsoever. Maintenance cost so far as been 0 (they sent a van to rotate my tires for free, and I paid maybe $100 to get a tire fixed after I got a flat once).
Cool
Tesla quality is SHIT so dont tell us there are no repairs--these cars fall apart in a hurry
@@chadhaire1711 You probably don't even own a Tesla.
@@hv-1944 Luka: I test cars for a living Goober--i dont have to buy shit.
@@chadhaire1711 Experience>Knowledge
Tesla scheduled maintenance is no longer required. Even before that, maintenance was once every two years... this brings Model 3 on par with civic
Actually it further surpasses it since they were actually almost doubling the national average for kWh rates. For the last almost decade the national average has been less than 13 cent per kWh. This rate cuts the cost they used for fuel by about 40% over 5 years.
Any chance of getting an update of this video's subject matter?
It's still an ongoing question and there may be more solid data available.
How much does Tesla maintenance and repairs cost 'outside' of warranty?
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I could imagine, that the selling price of the tesla will be much higher and the ICE cars will be lower. Tesla maintenance is much lower. Charging station for 1500$ is not needed for 99% of citizens. There are many spots to charge for free. If you use a referral code you get free supercharging for a view month or several thousand miles. So in reality the tesla is even much cheaper and about 250 times cooler than a civic 😂
I know this is old but as far as the free charging stations they're not nearly as readily available where I live. That probably goes for a lot of people but even still it seems to be the best value
The cost of insurance is different for the 3 cars. I heard, that the insurance for the model 3 was expensive so far. It would have been interesting to factor it in the break down costs...
Check out our bolt video, model 3 isn’t as bad as we’d heard
Nice video, however I think your maintenance figures for the Model 3 are off. It has no key fob, so nothing to replace, which was one of your key points for why the service charge was high
+Vitz Patel [Ricky] it’s based on model S but it’s not zero. Just like the civic not everyone will perform this maintenance procedures. But to compare apples to apples we included both. Honestly I have had two civics and one I had to 200k miles and cost me very little in maintenance.
Maintenance cost of my Model S for one year at 25K miles is ZERO dollars (I don't use key fob since I have my phone with me all the time). I had washer fluid refilled once for free at a service center when they upgraded the car software to get extra 100 horsepower last week.
+Alexandre Andrianov [Ricky] yah we called out what Tesla recommends same as all cars. I have had civics in the past that required so little maintenance. But we wanted to keep it apples to apples and use recommended intervals and costs
Two Bit da Vinci think you plucked them maintenance costs out of your arse to be honest... how can a ice car have lower maintenance costs than a EV? Ice need oil and filter changes! That alone is a considerable higher cost than a few wiper blades, a few wiper blades that the ice car would still require!!! no? 🙄
tonefiesta I think the point was that battery fob batteries and wiper blades are more expensive for Tesla. The biggest expense will be tires.
Car insurance for a Tesla Model 3 is almost 2k a year. They also get real expensive to repair once they're out of warranty to the point you will probably opt to extend it, which is even more $$$.
They're disposable cars and you had better have disposable income to keep up with it.
Great video! Have you done one including having rooftop solar at home with a few extra panels to remain at net zero grid power consumption while charging your Tesla, amortizing the cost of the solar array over their 35 year product life (as low as $0.03/kWh, over the 35 years without inflation)? The cost per mile really starts to drop on your own solar power, not to mention it's then a solar powered super clean car and you are your own power company and gas/fueling station!
[Ricky] Great point, maybe its something we can cover in the future ;)
Sounds great and the ideal situation for anyone, but the factories to make these parts will make a footprint in the environment which I believe is what Elon is trying to avoid.
@@Goddess_Char Oh you DEPLORABLE FOSSIL FUELS TROLL!!
Of course making solar panels that last 35+ years and are 95+% recyclable has a carbon footprint you radically ignorant Neanderthal. And of course it's (proven to be if you weren't a denier of science like a MAGA) footprint is radically smaller than building a fossil fuels burning power plant, mining and burning fossil fuels and maintaining it for 35+ years.
You Republicans should all suck a tailpipe and fade off into the sunset.
And there's no such thing as gods you silly MAGA, that's mythology shit and radically bigoted.
Since you couldn't purchase a $35,000 telsa when the video was made (and still can't), the analysis breaks down right out of the gate.
It is interesting, that people discuss here all sort of costs, but the biggest trap of this promo video comes unnoticed. These guys are comparing a non-existent cars ($35k Model 3) with Honda Civic. Just the price differential ($45k minimum on Model 3) with Honda Civic (I would say, the price of comparable car would be closed ro $20k) makes entire video irrelevant.
@@pavelkochan2694 Exactly. To the average Joe, it would still be cheaper to own and operate over 5 years compared to a 35K model 3.
I'm from the future of 2019 and here to tell you that Model 3 now cost 35k.
@@reshad6856 And it's STILL more expensive and less viable than the Honda. Even in 2019.
Lmao
It would be nice if you included the cost of insurance in your comparisons. I've heard insurance for the Aluminum body Tesla is abnormally high.
Call and ask your agent we did and the quote was super reasonable
rust is more expensive.
What’s the cost per year of mod 3 compared with a Volt and a Prius?
Why compare to a Prius? That's a Hybrid. Totally different model and BTW I suspect that the Tesla kicks its ass but I've never run the numbers because it's so different. I did test drive a used 2017 Lexus CT200 F-Sport before I went with the Tesla 3 and the dictionary definition of no-contest, no- comparison is those two. Hybrids and EVs don't play in the same space.
I was just reflecting on the maintenance costs for my 20 year old Lexus. I replaced 4 tires last year for $100 and changed the oil myself for $13. The battery was replaced under warranty (free). I had a defective fuel pulse damper that I replaced myself for $21 and 15 min. work. The only other part failure EVER was a small thing that I could have done myself but paid a shop to do the diagnosis and replacement for about $100. Others were just consumables like wiper refills, brake pads (easy DIY) and the very rare bulb. Insurance is expensive at about $1000/yr. The "maintenance" costs described here seem very high to a frugal guy like me, but I'm old. A few years ago, they did bring a Model S to me for a drive. It was certainly impressive, at least superficially.
Lexus is like the most reliable car on earth so great choice. Also most people don’t do the work themselves
There's really no "work". Changing oil and knowing exactly what's going into the car is very satisfying. The one repair done by a shop was something I could easily have done and so could absolutely anyone else but didn't have the time then. Obviously I don't replace tires myself but the shop I use properly HAND TORQUES all lug nuts to factory specs. I like that! Wonder if Tesla does. Low frequency of repair rate = reliability = quality to me. I did notice that Tyler Hoover posted a video on a Tesla Model S he had bought from the father of a Tesla engineer. I think he said that the car was already on its third motor! Hope I recalled that correctly. If so, that would be shocking.
you dont drive it. its obvious
Yes, I really should have been clearer. The tires were $100 each with installation included. I change the oil every year at 5K and the part replaced was the only non-wear item like brakes, wipers, batteries. The car is my daily driver but I only put about 5k/year on it these days.
how much was 20 YEARS of gas?
You mentioned a key fob battery for he model 3 but it has no key fob...
[CHRIS] Yes, we made a mistake by using Model S maintenance plan. You and about 5000 other people have pointed this out.
This is kind of ridiculous. I’d like to see a breakdown of what maintenance exactly the Tesla needed, when THERE IS NO KEY FOB
RUclipsMade’ B You don’t need a keyfob if you have your phone/keycard. If anything it’s better with the phone app, since it’s one less thing to carry around, along with most people in the 21st century carrying phones. If you can’t afford a phone, you shouldn’t get a Tesla.
I recently purchased a Tesla Model 3 here is the entire maintenance plan ready?
Replace battery cooling fluid every 40 thousand miles.
I can tell you after owning this car for 4 months that i will never purchase a combustion engine car for the rest of my life.
Ridiculous to focus on silly kefob at all.
You didn't factor battery replacement and how it'll affect resale cost. Sinceriously?
we have a two part battery series on our channel check it out!
if you are in bumper to bumper traffic most of the time 0-60 time doesnt really matter. I mean its fun and all to drive fast but its not all that important to me.
Some day there will probably be a $35000 Tesla, but at the time an honest comparison would use a $44,000 price.
Maybe this comparison should have used the Nissan Leaf.
In that case the Leaf would be quite a bit higher maintenance cost.
What will happen to your cost of ownership calcs when you have to replace that Honda or BMW after a couple hundred thousand miles, but the Model 3 just keeps on humming?
[CHRIS] Great question, if you keep a car that long, and if that actually happens. I guess we will need to wait about 10 years to find out.
1st off Great video not one bad thing to say at all! Now that said a couple missed points, as a car enthusiast it is not modifiable not everyone buys a car just to drive too and fro! As a avid road tripper that's something people may forget to factor in. I don't know charge time but 250 miles is about a 3-4hr trip based on 65mph and having to locate a charging station may necessitate you to alter your destination or route or get a rental. Remember gas is readily available within a mile or two of most exits. Plus to "re-fuel" you have to locate and park at a local charging station to charge up when you could of been in transit. This affects you if you also can't get a charging station installed as this can only happen if you have a house and not a rental or apartment! But never the less the most insightful video to date.... Keep up the good work!
Awesome comments!!!!! Yes you make some great points. Modifications are tougher but trust us, when EVs take off there will be an after market scene. There will be shops that offer higher output motors for your EV. Eco flashing tuning, battery pack mods etc
All future videos so subscribe and stay tuned!
I sure hope no enthusiast buys a 330i or a base civic with a good screen and leather seats...
One thing you missed was Car insurance
@sada das How bad is it?
Yes and car registration too
@@RamzaJinnRuu My boss owns Teslas and he said that the minimum insurance he was able to get was $250/month
@@smaranh Well . . . . . . . shit. I guess I'll just stick to my plan on buying a Rogue or Rogue Sport then.
@@RamzaJinnRuu You might want to check out 2020 Kia Telluride
I bought an Ioniq for $22,000. Based on this video I am dominating the cost spectrum since I have driven 11,000 miles, spending $500 in gas and $65 in maintenance with an average fuel economy of 61.4 mpg. To me the real test is the 300,000 mile mark though.
[CHRIS] Assuming you got the Plugin Hybrid version of the Ioniq? How are you liking it so far?
Actually it is just the standard HEV. It has been a great car so far but I am finding out the downside to having an extremely efficient engine in the form of winter warm up time. Winter temps often drop into single digits where I live which means the car has to be driven for 10+ miles just for the engine to warm up. This translates into a lower fuel economy since the car is constantly trying running the ICE just to keep warm. My last fill up gave me only 51mpg compared to 64 during the summer...ouch. First world problems I guess though;)
have you incorporated the cost of battery degradation in to the Tesla?
Two Bit da Vinci Can you do 2019 Tesla Model 3 Base $35,000 vs 2019 Nissan Leaf E-Plus ~$33,500 vs the twins of 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric ~$30,000/2019 Kia Niro Electric ~$30,000?
Yah our next few videos are set but we’re thinking we do that comparison before years end!
I like this, thought it might be Tesla bashing but seems fair. In Europe with incentives and the price of fuel up to 10 times higher the Tesla rules this game.
I put 525 thousand kilometers on my 1993 civic and had negligible repairs needed.Only maintenance. And I still sold it for 1000 in 2013. It gave almost perfect reliability for 20 years. I got 45 miles per canadian gallon highway. This turned out to be the most extreme economical vehicle ever
And the expenses for the Tesla are ridiculous. You're not likely to need key fob replacement and if you do, it's likely covered under warranty. And there is no need for brake pad replacement until about 100,000 miles, if ever, while both of the comparison vehicles will need brakes at least once per year.
Many people pointed this out already. The Model 3 doesn't even use key fobs at all.
Captain Crunch That's right- I forgot! It's a key card and phone app!
Yep, which is why many people complained about their estimates. They used the estimates from the Model s, which are way inaccurate for the Model 3.
I think they just wanted to list something as a comparison. There is no data yet on the Model 3. But unfortunately, that comparison includes items that don't even exist on the Model 3.
These comparisons mean nothing to me considering fuel is about $2.69 average where i live while electric rates are 1/5th of your comparison in the video. So using your calculator where i live $2.69 / 0.05 = 53.8 * 4.4 = 236.7 miles over 3 times higher than your estimate. So this is really a biased comparison based on CA these number will fluctuate wildly depending on where you live so in my case in the midwest where electricity is $0.05 per kwh I would be stupid not to own an EV
+popeicus [Ricky] so we had two choices make one million videos for everyone’s situation, or show our process and we’ll provide calculators to let you figure it out. Also we used Texas also and Texas and California are two very big Tesla markets
[RIcky] We have added the cost calculator spreadsheet to the description, and here is a link!
geni.us/Model3CostCalc
2021.
Honda Civic - $22,000
Tesla Model 3 - $37,990
Does not include the $1,200 delivery charge.
Does this take account that electric cars don't need changes oil, anti freeze for radiators. Don't need to replace their brakes as often and the fact that the Tesla model S is a luxury car and there would need more costly repair then it's cheaper alternative?
[Ricky] Consider it a conservative estimate. You will have to do things like battery coolant flushes etc. so its not zero, but it is significantly reduced compared to a ICE car. great points and great comment
No, they have expensive computer controlled cooling systems for the expensive computer controlled battery filled with anti freeze. When you blow the engine in a Toyota, your corner mechanic can get a rebuilt unit installed for $5,000. When a Tesla goes to shit out of warranty, kiss your ass good bye and total the car. If you think Teslas don't fail, look up Tela Bjorn on RUclips. He's put a bunch of miles on an S and X and had a bunch of problems, including battery failures. Even the interiors wear quickly.
Teslas almost never need a brake replacement. They all use the kinetic energy from braking to charge their batteries and that significantly reduces the wear on brake pads to almost non existent. One of the major benefits of the Tesla Semi-truck.
jordan couturier
I've had my used 2012 Chevy sonic LTZ for 5 years and probably need brake pads in another 5 years maybe.
$1500 for charger installation?? We spent $200, to have the 240 outlet wired. My wife has a 126 mile (round trip) commute. Never had an issue with home charging.
[CHRIS] You can certainly go that route, and just plug the lower numbers into the FREE calculator we provided.
Daniel Bergeron is maintenance really as expensive as stated in the video?
No, it is not. I have spent only about $700 so far in almost three years, only because I had one service done. Many people don't even do that.
Great Idea = Keep the Wife Close to Home, with Totally Range anxiety, she won't stray far away and you have a 89% chance of her returning.
You don't need to install a high amp home charger. I use 120v home charging, and overnight charges to cover normal daily driving. For cross-country, superchargers are easily available.
Nice explaining video. Wow, although a fan of Tesla didn’t know Model 3 (when $35K option is available) has 5 year CTO of $21K. That is irresistible 👍🏻
Will you need to change battery after 5years on a Tesla? What would be the cost of that?
[Ricky] No you wont, we have a 2 part series on the tesla batteries! check it out on our channel: ruclips.net/video/kGFiaWvD-KI/видео.html part 2 comes out in 2 weeks
Can't wait to see TBdV's Part 2 video on this subject, but I can also tell you that it seems that the Model S/X batteries retain around 90% of their initial capacity after 150,000-plus miles. If so, and if you typically put around 12,000 miles on your car annually, you can count on the battery still holding the vast amount of its initial charge for at least 12 years, likely more.
used to run different BMWs from 120i to M5, and let me tell you it was maintenance/repairs + petrol that's always been killing me (here in Germany we pay ~1,50 € / l) , so naturally I'm in with a reservation for a Tesla 3 - we've got VWs, too, a bit better then the BMs they are, but certainly less fun to drive ;-)
Absolutely! I secretly still dream about buying a 2002 M5, one of my favorite cars ever. But I know the service costs to keep it running will be quite high. Thanks for your comment!
Can't wait to get one! Though a used Leaf is incredibly cheap these days if you need a local car only
[Ricky] We didn't really get into it, but one of the major drawbacks of EV's to date have been horrible resale values like the LEAF. a new Leaf for 35k is worth like 10k 3 years later, its unheard of, but Tesla has seemed to figure that out with superior technology, warranties and desirability.
Hi Ricky! If you set aside the federal tax credit, a $35k Tesla will actually cost you $35k. There are no dealer discounts on a brand new, never demo'd vehicle and no manufacturer's rebates. A $35k LEAF could easily be purchased for $28k or less after dealer discounts and Manufacturer's rebates. That's a 20% depreciation before the car is even sold to the first owner, let alone when it is actually "driven off the lot." When you consider the Tax Credit, a "$35k LEAF" actually only cost $21,500 or less to the first buyer. Depreciation from $21,500 to $10k in 3 years makes a lot more sense and in reality is what is happening.
Not really. They've propped up resale values by leasing the cars themselves. They also control a significant portion of the resale market.
Where can you find a Model 3 for $35k try more like $55k? Just check the Tesla site and price one out. In the long run, electric is the way to go but the market still needs more competition to bring pricing down to the $35k level.
Yes we have a few videos that talk about this on our channel
@@TwoBitDaVinci all the Tesla fan boys are on here whining about no key fobs but you gave them the credit which is gone and only for the rich, and a $35,000 car which they made like 6 of before dropping. Oh and be sure and add tires and insurance next time.
Please tell me where I can buy the BMW 330i (would have been 328i 5 years ago) for $16,613.
Look on Craigslist. BMW are notorious for bad resale value due to high maintenance cost once they’re older. Also people with money to buy luxury German sedans typically don’t want used. I’d say the biggest reasons why theirs resale value is so bad
Nice advertisement for Tesla. No one has received a $35,000 model 3 yet as Tesla's marketing strategy is to deliver the higher cost model 3s first because of profitability and the need for income revenue. If you base this on the higher cost model 3s that have been delivered your outcome is very different.
true, we have future video coming out this week on bolt vs. model 3. where we will compare to a currently available car.
What about insurance costs?
We have a video comparing the volt and model 3, where we found insurance costs to be pretty much close to conventional cars
A comparison of the hybrids would be great.
[Ricky] Yeah that's a good point, something like a Prius would be $25k and get 50mpg cutting into the Model 3 savings in both directions!
I think you overlooked the cost of battery replacement or service in the electric car, or is the battery service/ replacement under a 5 year warranty?
There is no 35,000 model 3 yet man...may never be... with a 45000 price tag, the model 3 is not the cheapest anymore...
$35,000 Model 3 is out. Check Elon Musk's twitter.
Nadeem Shariff If no one has one, it isn't out. Check the real world.
I really wanted to buy a model 3; I added it plus the autopilot for 5000 for a total of 51k plus tax... even with 7500 tax credit, it is still over 45k. I ended up bought a 2015 bmw i3 Rex with 15k miles for 21k.
Just own it for a few days but this probably the Best Buy ever, the i3 is amazing, i got 5.1 miles/kWh in Houston freeway and with the range extender kicked in seamlessly. The i3 Rex range is 120 to 130 miles so it is good for me. I can go to Austin 150 miles away easily and that is all I need... the Tesla model 3 cost ownership can’t even come close in the case
@@phuonguy1
Cool
But none of the competition is in the same class. What people were buying were higher performance models of Model 3, which had no equivalent in the market. It is impossible to see a Civic or BMW 3 as the same class but in BEV, the competition is even less compelling. A Kona or Leaf is very cheaply appointed cars with few features and less performance. The fact that anyone buys Leaf now when there are far better built and equipped cars in a similar price range obviously is not paying attention.
So throughout the video you show the costs for California and Texas, but at the conclusion (8:35) you only show the cost per year for California (highest cost). You also didn't explain why you choose California and Texas for fuelcosts. Furthermore, no source to the five percent yearly increase.
[RIcky] We have provided a calculator for you to compare prices for where you live. 5% was an arbitrary price increase, lets see 5 years from now how close we were ;)
I would assume he used California because it has the most expensive price and texas because it has a somewhat cheaper price.
Plus, gas increases in price historically faster than electricity, and will continue to do so even more as more diversified sources of producing electricity are coming online.
because criminalfornia is the highest taxed state in the USA, so it's a worst case scenario. They now charge the highest registration costs for EV vehicles because of lost gas taxes, they tax the living shit out of everything in that state which is why people are fleeing, except the illegals....they live free.
One thing that missing from your video cost calculation which is "INSURANCE"
I read and seen lots of forum article and video that Tesla insurance relatively way higher than Honda civic due to high claim rate and expensive repair cost.
Also in Australia, the insurance price and its drive away for Tesla car is almost double compare from the US.
+Gonzo Azama [Ricky] it’s also high on BMWs. But the problem is your loan and financing costs will depend greatly on your credit, and insurance will depend on your driving history, tickets, infractions. So it’s very difficult to compare.
Insurance will depend on your driving history, tickets, infractions but even with clean driving history, Tesla insurance cost more than Honda Civic. Have a look at this link: www.motorauthority.com/news/1110827_aaa-hikes-tesla-insurance-rates-due-to-higher-than-average-number-of-claims
The main reason why Tesla insurance cost way more is due to Tesla repair can only be done by Tesla technician or approved technician, normal workshop would not suitable. In addition Tesla repair cost way more compare to Honda Civic.
Two Bit da Vinci you should compare insurance cost for like to like owner then it's fair. Doesn't matter about driving history, if you look at average person insurance cost for all three cars
Two Bit da Vinci same claim could be done about fuel costs, it depends who drives, where, with how much stuff in the car and if you pull something...
That's because our govt is money hungry and charge us the 'luxury car tax'. Here's hoping that both model 3s fall below that threshold
What about the cost of insurance?
How easy is it to find someone to work on the car?
How accessible are.... body and Powertrain parts?
Check our bolt video we dive into that
My husband got a Tesla Model 3 last month (cherry red) and the car insurance went down - traded in a 3-year old Hyundai Genesis.
Seems to me, being a transit tech and working around hybrid and full electric vehicles, electric vehicles don’t seem to actually live up to the promises they make. The batteries don’t last as long they claim, they go through way more tires because of the higher torque, although the regenerative braking about doubles the life of the brakes. There’s also other failures on EV vehicles that are on regular vehicles as well, wiper motors, switches, air conditioning and heating components, for some reason EV fans like to pretend these components don’t fail. And while the power trains might require less or no maintenance, when they do need repairs they are far more expensive to purchase components for. I wonder what it really costs to maintain a Tesla when you’ve had to replace a couple batteries or a couple electric motors.
We have a 2 part battery video we highly recommend you watch. They really do last a long time. Very average numbers suggest about 10-15% range degradation after 150,000-200,000 miles.
The wall charger and annual maintenance is optional for any Tesla.
+Jacky Cheung [Ricky] it’ll take more than 24 hours to charge via a conventional outlet, so not sure I agree that it’s “optional” but yes technically ;) and maintenance for all cars is optional. I have owned two civics and they cost SO little to maintain. But to compare apples to apples we provided recommended maintenance
How long does it take to have enough charge depends on how far the owner need to travel. It is rare for the owner to travel a few hundred miles everyday and thus many EV owners are OK with the mobile EVSE. Also, with the proper adaptor, the mobile EVSE can use 200V 40A as long as it has the right outlet (sorry, I am not living in US and thus not remember how it was called). To install the outlet, it does not need $1500.
+Jacky Cheung [CHRIS] Totally agree, which makes the Tesla have even lower potential TCO!
That’s true for a full charge from zero but most people drive less then Thirty miles a day you would plug it in each night so wall chargers an unnecessary upgrade for most drivers and then there’s the super charger network to cover you for quick charge ups as needed
I dont know wtf they are talking about with maintanence costs. For my dodge work vehicle (diesel) I am spending about $250 per oil change. It uses Euro L just like a gas beamer so an oil change on that beamer could be $200 or so only because it would use 4L of oil instead of 9L. A tesla is going need tires, wheel alignments and wiper blades in 5 years. Thats it.
Tesla requires battery coolant replacement every 4 years @ $500 each time. Also brake fluid needs to be replaced every 2 years @ $250 each time.
Never mind the price. How long is that battery guaranteed and how much to replace it?
Great video! One criticism; $1,500 for a charger is way to much. We bought a charger from Tesla for our model S that cost $500 and was only a few hundred dollars to install ($150-$200)
[Ricky] Thanks for sharing! So we looked into it, and most people paid around what you did, some paid a little more, we thought we'd go with $1500 as a catch all worst case.
Going all electric - how much did you pay for installation?
yeah but i bet it takes 36 hours to charge
No, it takes 6 to 8 hours if the car is empty, 2 to 3 hours typical, 30 minutes or less at a Supercharger.
honda, we've all been there done that.
time to move onward.
A ten year comparison would be better, since that's how long people have their cars for these days
Yeah agreed
Nobody keeps a BMW more than the 3/4 lease--WRONG. And NOBODY is going to keep this crapbox Tesla longer than the warranty when they see how they fall apart--something they didn't talk about in the video...something called REPAIRS of which Tesla cars have plenty--all of the electrics in the cabin will go dead in a hurry.
@@uselesscompanion6417 useless. sounds like you are only driving 30 miles per year......
chad haire cuz you own one? my 2014 Porsche Cayenne was a crapbox. Tranny went out at 118K miles....@ a cost of $8800, brakes and rotors ...$3300, diesel DEF pump went out at 95K miles...~$1600 at dearship..etc u get the picture. That did not include 22 oil changes, and a $1680 transmission flush preceding the $8800 tranny. Got rid of that piece of crap and got a model X. 2 yrs later and 65k miles, 4 tires. That’s it. No oil changes. No gas stations. Brakes at 80% still. Yes I had warranty done , but mostly rubber seals on doors, windows, cv-joints where dirt got inside and the axel joint had to be replaced. This is by far one of the most reliable cars I’ve ever had. My second I have a car it was a Saturn. The irony is that both of them are American cars
@@yingnyang2889 YING: The X model has already been PROVEN to be one of the worst reliable cars on the road.....the fact you got a good one doesn't change that fact......Saturn is another turd.
I’m in Finance and this is how you do a total cost of ownership model! Awesome video too!
The only critique- if at all, is to add NPV to it. But that’s me being picky.
Awesome job and summary.
One thing that is being forgotten about which is going to at some point become an issue is taxes because there is Road tax on gasoline. But not on electric the government is not going to let all this money not be collected for people who own electric cars. At some point the government is going to want their money because they always get it. Not to mention the increase in electric demand is probably going to cause the price of electric to Skyrocket given that we don't have the infrastructure to support all these new electric cars. When you look at the new semi-truck that vehicle is going to require one megawatt of power in a half an hour that is a incredible amount of power that will be consumed to charge that vehicle for a 500 mile trip to give people a idea of how much power that is in my house for the entire month I only used a little over 530 kilowatts. That just starts to give you an idea of how much electric these vehicles will consume. And when you start to factor in the efficiency of electric generation and transmission of that power it's not really a more efficient than a internal combustion engine.
J Rudy but it is more efficient. Any way you look at it. Ice cars blow off 60% or more of the potential energy into the atmosphere. Electric is nearly 90% efficient putting the stored energy into work. Power generation is more efficient than and ice engine.
Its not power generation or conversion that is the problem, but energy storage. The bigger the battery, the faster the charge is discharged i.e. the big heaping car batteries inherently have difficulty maintaining a charge. Then you have the fact that the your idea of 90% efficiency is not even close to reality. A small motor is lucky to get 85% and decreases as you get to something able to move a car. Then you have charging the car(lose energy), converting it to useful conditions for the battery(lose energy), sending power to the place for charging(losing about ~20-40% of energy). That is before generating the electricity.
Acting like an EV is good for the environment is delusional(even with solar and wind you have to use less energy and materials to be advantageous).
Road taxes are actually peanuts. An average car pays around $200 a year in road taxes. In my area we have toll roads, and I pay several times that every year.
There is no increase in electricity demand. Appliances, lights, HVAC, etc. keep getting more efficient. Which is why electricity production dropped 1.5% in the USA last year. That is enough electricity to drive 28 million electric cars 15000 miles each.
You fail to account for in the semi truck the fuel that is offset from that Megawatt used. Keep in mind that a gallon of gas contains 33.7kWh of energy. So, a Megawatt is about 30 gallons of gas. If you can make a semi truck that can drive 500 miles on 30 gallons of gas, there are about a million trucking companies that would like to buy one from you today.
Transmission losses and power generation included, electric cars are still far more efficient than gasoline cars, everything included. A study has already been done on this:
blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
Andrew, energy storage is not an issue. Modern Lithium Ion batteries lost very little energy over time, and most people drive their cars every day or every couple of days. The amount lost is a rounding error.
And there is no linear relationship to the size of the battery and the discharge rate.
Tesla doesn't use a small motor, it uses a larger motor. The efficiency is over 95%. There is no loss to useful conditions. There are only small conversion losses from DC to AC and back.
The transmission losses are not 20% to 40%. The actual data estimates the Transmission and distribution losses in the USA were estimated at 6.6% in 1997 and 6.5% in 2007.
Acting like EV's are good for the environment are facts, supported by actual data and research by actual scientists. It is not based on your ill informed opinion.
blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
I’m interested in electric cars mainly because it’s blissful escape from bs car maintenance like: air filters, dirty oil filters, oil changes, spark plugs, valves adjustments, timing belt replacements, intakes, fuel injectors, fuel pumps, oil pumps. Anyone that works on cars knows how obnoxious these common car troubles are. Finally a car with just simple electric motors.
[CHRIS] All that, and no more trips to the gas station!
Yep. You're 100% right about that. I bought a Chevy Bolt EV over a year ago, and I haven't been to so much as a gas station since. I love driving by the gas station I used to pump gas into my car, every other day for 10 fucking years, rain or shine, freezing cold or miserable hot or wind storm. I literally LAUGHED so much I almost cried the first time.
The reduction gear on the model 3 actually does require an oil change, but I think its infrequent, maybe around 80,000 miles.
resale of a tesla is just crazy. the projected resale value is horribly off.
[CHRIS] Too high or too low? And do you have a crystal ball prediction you would like to share? We used percentage numbers based off the Model S over time, but we won't really know on the Model 3 for another 1-3 years.
which Model S did you use to calculate the percentage?
100% agree, i looked at older model S the prices are almost new prices even after a few years, if not i would buy a used one now. This is way off. Look at used Tesla costs lol
Resale value is horrible, look on eBay completed sales, you'll find plenty of Model S sold in the 40k's, that is a $100,000 car. This video talks about a $35k Model3, give us a break, there is no such thing. Quality on these cars is developing a horrendous reputation, see: seekingalpha.com/article/4203477-tesla-reached-point-return
I believe in the future of the electric car, but have little confidence in Tesla, I think they are heading toward bankruptcy.
The car won't sell after 5 years unless you change the batteries which are priced at $12k!
When do u need to change battery? Whether the battery loses capacity over the years of use??
Can you compare other electric cars?
For example, kia soul ev vs tesla vs chevy bolt ec
[RIcky] we hope you'll subscribe, we have a future video covering just this in the works. Probably in a few weeks
Angela Kim
At least with soul ev and bolt. No waiting. They may be waiting in the lot, and as of now you can get the whole tax credit.
What about the cost of a new battery...
Check out our channel we have a two part series on the batteries!
I am a proud owner of a BMW 330. I used to call it "the machine".
... then my wife bought a Model 3.
Now I call my bimmer the clunker.
DJ Vinilum how many different Tesla videos are you going to post this shit comment? No one gives a shit.
What about the cost of battery replacement after about 10 years?
My other grip is this cheaper model which start at $35k could be up to $70k with the enhance autopilot and w/o tax credit when it ends this year.
Those year 4 and 5 repair costs for the Tesla look pretty dodgey. Where'd they come from?
That's the insurance package from tesla he is using. maintenance can actually be a lot less.
The music you play throughout the video while talking is distracting and doesn't add anything of value to the video. Consider not playing music and just sticking with the presentation.
[CHRIS] We are considering removing or drastically lowering background audio in future videos.
I liked it. What's the name of it ?
For the first 5 years on a civic you are going to do 2 oil changes per year , change the wipers, and get new tires. Not going to be the maintenance cost described here.
Shame it’s gonna be a years before getting one in the UK and the price of around 30-35k
ADMR1985 in Finland tesla model 3 will be aroud 70-80k euros. Only the rich have money to buy this in here
Both u are morons if u really go for a tesla right NOW, within the next 5 years u will see pretty much every single car brand out there with electric cars.
Dont forget that Tesla only works on the battery and power but not on reliability which is key on cars, there will be better electronic cars out soon.
D Payne u moron. We didnt say that :D
You should have your own electric car company Brexit
Why would anyone buy an oversized mobility scooter, with a 5 year old battery?
And if you have solar at home your potential energy cost could be zero, which is what Elon wants
If you steal your neighbor's batteries.
Let me put a 50000 solar at my house so i can save 100 a month genius
Lol nice video but his depreciation of a Tesla after 5 years is comical. First off though the cost is more like 50 to 60k for the all wheel drive but the tax credits are solid thru 2018. If you can afford a Tesla the credit will help you but unless the cost of gas just plunges and stays, the Tesla value remains very high and the constant computer updates help maintain the value
Yeah base models are still about 6 months away. Depreciation should be interesting. We’ve never have a mass produced Tesla before so it’s unlikely the depreciation will be like the Model S. But we’ll do future videos as data becomes available!
Have you traded your old Tesla in to test that hypothesis? I installed a Gen1 Wall Charger for a customer in 2013 for his new Model S. Last month he had me come back to upgrade to the Gen2. He had traded in his S for the Model 3 for the extended range and some of the other newer features. He had clocked over 100K miles (we live in California:-) and they gave him $41K towards his Model 3. About the same or better- than any other luxury vehicle
I was look at at leasing a Honda Clarity or Toyota Prime and their lease residuals are 30% vs. 50% for a Civic - Model 3???