@@TimHayward That's ok - He must have worked for NASA at some point... GET IT? Some day we will build a HUGE MONUMENT on MARS - at the site of the IMPACT CRATER - created by the IDIOT that forgot the difference between FT and Meters.
@@nathandean1687 Nathan it is correct detail that makes something worth listening to. I found many annoying weak arguments in this guys reasoning, I do mot believe he knows that much and his arguments are weak. 4/10 = not worth listening to Peace
@@nathandean1687 : You should care. $7.15/lb means that per kg price is more than double that value, not half. 1 lb = .454 kg, and therefore Lithium would be $15.75/kg.
Your conversion from pounds to kilograms is going the wrong way. To get a price per kilogram, you need to MULTIPLY the price per pound by 2.204622, not divide.
I am a 20 year engineering professional. I discovered your channel yesterday an have been watching your videos for the past couple days. I must say you are amazing at explaining very technical engineering subjects. Keep up the good work.
Is it just me that got really annoyed When he shower the vist for each element where he showed a pound being 2x as extensive as 1 kg meanwhile 1 kg is dubble as much as a pound
[Ricky] We are so sorry we didn't catch that.. .yes that's wrong... hopefully it doesn't take away from the data presentation. just look at the pounds... its correct.
[Ricky] Thank yo Eric for understanding, we'll hold ourselves to account and fix those sorts of things going forward! Thanks so much we're going to run polls to see what people want to see next, but you can always @twobitdavinci us on twitter! We are just pumped with our little community and would love to have you aboard!
Two Bit da Vinci yes, I was looking at the comments to see if anyone else had cathed it, the video is great, just a small error. Thanks for the awesome content.
[Ricky] Yes sorry you're right... this was a very hard video to research, and a lot of late hours. Yes good catch, we'll try to clean that up going forward thank you!
Another very important reason for using several large cylindrical cells is cooling performance. The cooling loop is wound through the batteries and the cell size is optimized for an ideal surface area-to-volume as determined by the necessary worst-case cooling performance. It also reduces the risk of a cascading fire since the energy in each cell is smaller, and it increases the system-level tolerance for cell failure since a failed cell will either fail to conduct or short and cause the fuse to open, and in either case this will have next-to-no noticeable effect on the battery overall since each battery pack features several thousand cells.
Sounds good, this is the design aspect that Nissan keeps absolutely flubbing over and over again, to me their ignorance of the importance cooling performance is astounding, doubly so since they also owned their own battery production until very recently, and ALL of the automotive companies have way more experience with liquid cooling systems than Tesla does.
such a shame people are complaining about this. So much work and energy put into this video and so much quality content. A bunch of idiots complaining about a conversion error. Look past it and appreciate what you've been given for free.
Good job! Clear and well put together! Only one detail: there are about 2.2 lbs per kg. So the price of the raw materials for kg needs to be rectified.
A couple of things I noticed that you missed. Whilst Panasonic own and operate the cell manufacturing side at Giga Factory 1, Tesla have been instrumental in developing the various cell chemistry's and form factor. Also, the latest info from the last share holders meeting, it was mentioned that the next generation cell would be cobalt free.
Steve Gigafactory is Tesla own and run (it’s Tesla’s name on the side). It’s that Panasonic has significant invented in it and provided the manufacture expertise and machines. They are the cook to Tesla’s recipe
[Ricky] so manufacturing process, optimizations in size per density and price, are where Tesla shines. But in terms of Battery chemistry, Panasonic is king. Great comments, we are so blessed to have such an amazing community of people like you with such good insight. I'll look into the next generation of batteries ,and if they are indeed Cobalt free. thanks again, we hope you'll subscribe, you the kind of person we need in our journey.
"Tesla have been instrumental in developing the various cell chemistry's and form factor." They use a standard form factor.......... and the chemistry too isn't all that special. Other manufacturers just have oped for cheaper alternatives with slightly worse performance characteristics but also a lower environmental impact and with a reduction in the reliance on controversial materials. And Cobalt is instrumental in the lifetime characteristics of LiIon batteries. Change that and you are back to bog standard 18650.
You forgot one very important part of why tesla uses small cells instead of bigger cells. This is because of reparability and refurbishing. In large batteries that are solely produce to fit a specific design, the interior design of the battery makes it hard to isolate problematic portions of the cell. But with smaller cells like what Tesla uses, its much easier to find the problematic cells, remove them from the battery pack and have them recycled. This leads to a much smaller percentage of the battery pack needing to be replaced upon imminent failure.
Reparability = bullshit. It's just a design they embraced from day 1 because they had to use off-the-shelf computer parts to fill their Lotus Elise. Now they're optimizing, but, still, there's need to cut costs, so they will keep almost the same kind of harnesses and just make their custom cells, cells that they probably custom-ordered from a laptop parts maker in china.
Also, the cell used are already common format, the 18650 format is the most prevalent one in vaping devices as it can deliver a lot of power in a burst fashion. ( my lg hg2 are rated 20A continuous and 35A burst discharge rates ). But only 3A/h of capacity...
@@MmeHyraelle They dont use 18650 anymore, not since they started production on the Tesla Model 3. Now they use their own modified version of the 18650, its taller and wider but double capacity to a max of 6000mAh and uses more reliable materials.
Another big plus for small cells in Tesla is that each small cell can be quickly cooled of or warmed up, quickly, if necessary. Lithium batteries hate being too cold or too hot. In the Tesla packs, each small cell is partially wrapped by a liquid cooling 'blanket' that can provide cooling , in the fast charging mode, or heating, in the artic like conditions. The cabin A/C provides colding. For hoting, all on board hoting areas are used(ie...computing heat and whatever other heat sources can scrounged up) . If that isn't enough, resistance heaters are used from the battery, and this is a significant battery drain which leads to big losses in m.p.g. The colding losses are smaller.
Awesome content. Well structured and understandably presented. There are some setbacks like the weight swap and some forgotten letters here and there, but this can be fixed with some reviewing. I see great potential in this channel. Keep it up.
@@TheFragturedNerd Give it another 10 years or so for their production to really ramp up and for more model options, people like you are the market they're trying to reach. They had to do all of the expensive and sporty stuff to prove to investors and customers that EV's aren't lacking in capability. That said, I'm in the same boat, I can't wait to have the money for a Tesla.
That was an incredibly well-researched and insigtful video on the chemistry of EV batteries... completely hooked! Great job guys! Looking forward to the next parts in the series.
Teslas video's are soothing . Because I've deans listed for years at LA trade tech in electrical math, refrigeration and engineering . I can't be lied to about anything . Look forward to part 2.
Thanks, in the early 70's I worked driving a propane poll hyster, hauling rolls of carpet. The company had a new ideal of doing things. They brought in this much smaller, total electric poll hyster. All of hyster drivers thought, "no way, this little thing can handle the work load, can't possible do the job". Well needless to say, after a week or so of using this smaller total electric hyster, well all fell in love with it. Much fast and, no fumes,, and could pick up more rolls because it was smaller. Faster on everything and only once a day did we have to change out this huge battery. A batter about the size of 4'x4' huge battery. Done with a crane at a place where it was done quickly 15 minutes tops. The whole plant eventually changed to "all electric". The little things were so fast we had to have a class on how to drive them slower and safer. Carrying possibly 3 to 4 tons of carpet can be dangerous. So electric is where the country needs to be. I'm guessing I will love Tesla but they are pricey. I'm not sure which one to buy. 310 mile range on the newer S models or a P 90 much faster but older one. I found one for 62 thousand a used one but a new Model S is about the same. So new or old? I truly don't know. Thanks for your video.
@@chevychase3103 We're sticking our neck out to buy one and we might not. It's hard to tell what the good Lord wants us to do, after all it's his money the wife says. The price will come down and gas motors are not going anywhere for the moment. I'm sorry you can't afford one. Peace Brother!
@@TwoBitDaVinci I am sorry that was not that well "researched" Maybe 2 hours on google, but you have no real depth of knowledge, you just after clicks and probably money.
Neither of these video's constitute a definition of "well researched". Both have some gross inaccuracies and display a pro-Tesla bias that bridges the yanwing abyss of incredulity with pseudo-science and baseless assertions. Convince me with facts, not with BS.
I helped build them, Models S,3,X. Challenging at times, 12hrs, graveyard shift, 3½yrs. I've dropped the tack time 36sec to MOT line at 4 stations east and west sides 10 and 20. Then I continued to Chassis1 40e, 30w,30e and 40w the install of front and rear chassis. Tough stations.
good job explaining the cells strategy. Interesting times - with Tesla model 3 ramping, we'll see it all prove out well or flop on it's own weight... I'm wishing them well !
Lyle Stavast well you you just got your wish Tesla has even out sold some of the more popular gasoline cars in the Tesla three and they haven’t even caught up to all the customers who are buying them now imagine when they catch up to the people who want them and that day is closing fast.
Ummm... not sure why it was really all that critical to specifically state it - isn't it generally understood that that is why it's called what it is ?
October and November numbers are really critical, as are the 3Q18 financial results due out maybe the 1st week of November. You can see all the plugin player vehicles (pure EV and plug-in hybrids) in the space at this site - which shows Tesla just completely dominating the space now... insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Thank you very much for the info. I didn't know what used EV to buy because of the concern about battery life, but now it looks like Tesla batteries are the best, so I'll have to go with that.
Nice video! I think you will find that the Tesla's with different batteries in fact run at different voltages. 60 vs. 85 for instance. I see people supercharging those on youtube and they have different voltage ranges...
On the question of why thousands of cells rather than fewer, larger packs, I believe there are several factors you didn't mention. 1) spreading the charge/discharge current over more cells allows Tesla to charge and discharge faster without overheating. 2) it is harder to cool larger cells than small ones (the internal heat source is further from the external cooling system) 3) degraded/dead cells represent much more of a range loss with fewer, larger cells Also, I don't believe panasonic would agree that the relationship is symbiotic or beneficial. they're apparently pretty pissed at how little they make out of the deal
Lol... You start the video with the question of whether making the batteries is worse for the environment or not. You spent the first 9 minutes apparently building up to an answer... then tell us you don't plan to answer that question in this particular video. Wtf?
Great video, sub’d for sure. One important thing you didn’t mention about Tesla’s small cylindrical cells vs the larger flat cells used at the competitors, is that the cylindrical cells have a much greater lifespan due to it’s physical shape, it simply can’t expand and contract as much as a flat cell.
Yes, especially in the Model 3 where they have aluminum cooling radiators that surround each individual cell, this is why it doesn't overheat like other EV''s and can be tracked: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-has-remarkable-battery-tech-that-has-been-largely-overlooked-2018-6-1027327792
[Ricky] Dude we're HUGE FANS!!!!! We love your channel and I've probably seen every DIY powerwall video you've made :) any chance you're interested in a future collaboration?
Kg-pound conversion is bad. 1 kg = 2.2 pounds, so cobalt is about 90$/kg, nickel is about 10$/kg and so. As a kg is bigger than a pound, 1 kg of something cost more than 1 pound of that. Put correct quickly
So, the batteries are getting more explosive. Stage four: lets use potassium batteries. Lithium doesn't have enough explosive power. Anyway, the prices rising are good news. It is a motivation to look for safer chemistries.
10:20 well you can do the exact same thing with pouch and prismatic cells. if you want twice the range, you're gonna need twice the batteries, doesn't matter if it's 5000 small or 20 large ones.
the bigger the battery, the less flexibility you have right. A car chassis has reinforcement points, ridges grooves. So the smaller the battery, ideally the more flexibility you have in designing packs. I understand your sentiment though.
@@brett7011 Nitpick!? No, that is not nitpicking! If that is a nitpick then we would not been in space, or even have planes! Sorry that a pretty important thing is a nitpick for you. ,,Explain" what? Every other comment is about it but whatever...
To my understanding the configuration of cylindrical shape of battery is safer as well. Each sheets of metals are rolled up together to form the cylinder. During rough drive the vibration force exerted on each sheet is tangent to the cylinder. For comparison, non-cylindrical battery, during vibration the force is perpendicular to each layer.
Shane Campbell There you go! Sweeping statement, untrue.... Gives wrong information to those who aren't inclined to check, but may pass the info on....... Easy!
Roger Starkey and yet you have no information to disapprove. IIntetesring! Ever hear of an i3, leaf burning an owner alive or firedept unable to extinguish... the dense packing by Tesla has consequences, like it or not!
Shane I see that your distrust is no longer related to battery's shape. Perhaps you will find comfort to know NFPA report everyday there is one person died from car fire. On average there are 31 car fires per hour. -www.nfpa.org
There are other reasons why Tesla persists with the many small cylindrical cell approach to building their traction batteries. Initially they took that path because the 18650 cell was produced in large numbers for laptop computers so good quality cells were available in quantity for a reasonable price. In current Tesla cars these cells live in the bottom of the vehicle in a single layer of vertical cells, an arrangement that helps keep all cells at very close to the same temperature when coupled with adequate thermal management. An alternative approach would to be to use a lesser number of larger prismatic cells but heat generated inside the cells is much more difficult to remove than it is for many smaller cells. The larger pouch cells as used in the Nissan Leaf do not suffer from this problem but as configured in the leaf they are fitted beneath the floor so have to be mounted horizontally in layers, the cells in the upper layers get cooked by the heat coming form the lower layers and that is bad (not helped by zero thermal management). So small cylindrical cells are the best compromise when it comes to finding space in the vehicle to house them and providing the best thermal management. The current Tesla design lends itself to robot manufacture (probably a dedicated machine rather than a general purpose robot) so the extra mechanical/wiring complication over prismatic is not a big deal.
Dogphlap I agree my 2016 Leaf SV had to get a new battery pack with only 26000 miles on it due to battery degradation my next EV is going to be a model 3
The "Stage 1" battery cell actually has a known model number, it's the Panasonic NCR18650BB. "Stage 2" is thought to be Panasonic NCR18650BG, but nobody has so far procured a BG-branded sample.
Would just like to complement you on this production. Very well laid out and delivered. Top notch. I found it very informative and even let the adds play in hopes you get paid for your efforts. It did throw me off a sec with mostly American dialect then pronouncing aluminum as a Brit😉 Subscribed👍
[Ricky] That's on me... my apologies I screwed those conversions up.... just use our pound numbers those are right. So sorry about this , and we'll be sure to do better going forward!
@10:00 regarding round vs flat/prismatic. AFAIK there is a much more important reason - the lifetime of the battery. With a cylindrical cell it is easy to maintain pressure on the layers in the battery to keep them from coming apart as only tension in the circumference is needed. With flat/rectangular cells this is much more difficult and would need an extremely heavy metal case to provide the same pressure against delamination. We've all seen smartphones with a bulging back, or even a broken screen due to the battery expanding. Now while the exp[ansion is itself a product of battery deterioration once the layers loose contact the process accelerates and the battery deteriorates even more quickly. On the other hand a cylindrical case will maintain its dimension regardless and keep the layers in contact, any pressure in excess of what the cylinder can take being released at the ends.
[Ricky] Dodge Chrysler Jeep is one of the most unreliable and poorly made cars out there... I'd rather Have Tesla... but Comparing Tesla to the likes of Honda or Toyota... yeah It'll be a while for them to catch up
i agree. tesla is still a new company. in less then 10 years they will be up there. the only thing right now that makes me not want to support tesla as a company is the lack of consumer available parts. they are very bad about that. i do hope that is to change in the future but i have my doubts
it's waste of materials, time and energy, if you can make battery 3 times faster and cheaper with regular manufacturing. 1852 (or this new on, slightly bigger) format was not invented for use like this. and this is place where tesla fails, it is just too expensive, and without some heavy sponsorship from state etc, musk would be just another business man, talking about science.. and talking buisness: better not to talk about it, when comes to tesla inc., their loss jusr keep growing year by year.
In my view and having been around very creative individuals all my life, which consisted of all facets of engineering and entrepreneurship, my opinion of Elon Musk, is he nothing short of genius. If one studies what he does totally, he has a complete unending goal which is all connected. I’ve become obsessed with this mans genius and convictions. For the sake of many, I pray he continues. He is one to watch and emulate.
The pack weighs about 1000 lbs. but the motor weights about 70lbs compared to 300-500lbs for a gas engine. Also same for a transmission which the EV doesn’t have. So it’s not actually as crazy as you might think.
If/when cars get fully autonomus and we dont all have to own a car that stands parked most of the time. It will reduce cars. But i think the small autonomus busses will be very importent since we often go to work at the same time.
I think there are even better batteries than lithium ion! Also I need a 4x4 pickup truck not a car. I'm totally for 100% quiet vehicles that are cheap, minimal pollution and extremely simple, uncomplicated, very low maintenance and available from other companies than just Tesla. Keep up the good research and work! Have fuN, enjoy
Even if Tesla invents a battery that produces 1000wh/l it will never happen! IBM is your next battery guru! Lithium will be a disaster financially when this comes out!
The small cell idea is a good one in the beginning when they have to deal with outsourcing battery production, but in the long run, they will be far better off to use larger prismatic cells instead since it really doesn't cost that much to produce the cells in any shape you want and with larger prismatic pouches you gain better thermal stability and easier cooling along with better safety since prismatic cells will expand during a fault condition which tends to break the connection rather than starting a fire. Even if a nail or screw were to puncture the pack.
Tesla had to create special bent cooling tube plates to fit in between the cells so that each cell could be individually cooled and this makes the pack construction more of a pain even with advances in production. It also leaves the possibility that some cells will not have good contact which may affect the longevity of some cells over time. With prismatic cells, you can use flat conduction plates that are easily stackable and make contact with one large cooling plate that can cool the entire pack and maintain the same temp across the whole battery compartment. With larger prismatic cells you also have far fewer points of failure.
[Ricky] How often is coolant run in a prismatic cell? Between each layer? Of course not, I'm not sure exactly which care you're referring to, but Tesla has a patented wavy coolant manifold that touches each and every battery in their packs. This surface area, to volume, gives them exceptionally good cooling, and I've yet to hear of any prismatic battery that comes close. Please send us any links with specifics, and we can always do future videos!
It really depends on the manufacturer. Most use a thermally conductive plate between cells that also provides added rigidity and support. They can then cool one or both sides of the modules. Some manufacturers do have manifold plates between every other cell but this is not really necessary since the larger prismatic cells tend to dissipate heat fairly well. Tesla's bent tube manifold design does not guarantee thermal contact for every cell, especially when they go through a few thermal cycles. That is part of the reason why they had to use thermally conductive glue for the model 3 pack assembly to attach each cell to the bent tube manifold they have snaking through the pack. With the model S packs it was very possible to get hotspots. The prismatic cell design allows for a much larger cell package with as much cooling as needed in just about any configuration with fewer parts to minimize construction time and simplify control.
I can't get over the fact that in all my years, it has been very uncommon to have *any* battery outlast the device that it goes into. Drills, computers, phones, emergency exit lamps, etc. Then factor in the self-discharge rate. Use it or not, the car is going to be dead in 10 years. I hope I am wrong, but just because a Panasonic 18650 cell is dumped into a car, it is supposed to last longer? Battery technology has a ways to go yet.
Paul I am sorry, but to put it politely, you have literally zero idea of what you’re talking about. You simply can’t compare a drill, laptop, phone etc with a car. The battery management is like comparing cheese with chalk. I have friend in San Diego with a 2012 Tesla, still going fine, still on it’s original battery, LOTS of miles on the odometer.
We will see. Like I said, hopefully I am wrong. It would not take much to implement battery management into a laptop computer, nor a battery drill these days but nobody does that. If you go to flea markets / swap meets, they are littered with battery tools. But they almost never work. If management is the cure to the problem, I wish they would implement it. How many miles is "A LOT?" To some people, that is 70,000. I have 20 years and 248,xxx on my Jeep. It is like one of those car ads where they advertise "Low miles" or "high miles". The odometer only tells about 1/3 of the story anyway. This guy probably has his own home where he can charge the thing daily, combined with the temperate climate of San Diego. It probably lives a good life. As with any car that lives a good life, it'll be a long life. And miles miles miles. It is only 6 years old... maybe 7. Give it another 4 years, and lets see where it is at.
The video is more of response to several other videos on RUclips about the subject. This author hopes to present his version based on data and fact he has established with the data.
If you have to be fanboy or think someone should not talk bad about Tesla, you do not rely your opinions on facts. This video shows the facts about Tesla, good or bad, for everyone.
No it’s in 2 parts because we spent 100 hours in research, 100 hours of 3D modeling and rendering, and 30 hours video editing. We couldn’t make it all happen in a two week window. Cheers!
Thinking Tesla, Solar or anything else? Support Us, use our Links!
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Your conversion of $/Lb to $/Kg is wrong, $7.5 per pound = $16.5 per kg, $40 per pound = $88 per Kg
Yeah its the other way around.
Elon tweeted some time ago that they allready are under $100 kwh, not by the back level jet.
Graphene is the future for batteries
sellout much? You didn't even answer your own question in the video what makes mining for battery extremely bad for nature..
Kg conversion error makes me question the reliability of everything else in this video. You should re record and update the graphics
[Ricky] Yeah we mention that in the first line in the video description, and we'll address it again in part 2.
@@TwoBitDaVinci you need to redo this one or at least re annotate every bad slide.
@@TimHayward no he doesnt if you cant watch without knowing the amount per kg dont watch
@@TimHayward That's ok - He must have worked for NASA at some point... GET IT? Some day we will build a HUGE MONUMENT on MARS - at the site of the IMPACT CRATER - created by the IDIOT that forgot the difference between FT and Meters.
You missed the points completely.
I'd like to buy everything from you by kilograms.
thank you. i was like,, hold on a minute :P
that bugged me
@
BarackBananabama
i like the idea of getting twice as much for half the price :-)
Ya this video would be great if it wasn't so amateur
1 Lb = 0.45kg
Your pound to kg conversion is wrong.
who the fug cares.
@@nathandean1687 Nathan it is correct detail that makes something worth listening to. I found many annoying weak arguments in this guys reasoning, I do mot believe he knows that much and his arguments are weak. 4/10 = not worth listening to Peace
@@nathandean1687 : You should care. $7.15/lb means that per kg price is more than double that value, not half.
1 lb = .454 kg, and therefore Lithium would be $15.75/kg.
@Peter Crombie : $15.75/kg for Lithium, not $3.41/kg
Lol! I was wondering who else caught this. This guy should make a video on the methane available from his toilet. It would be much more accurate.
Your conversion from pounds to kilograms is going the wrong way. To get a price per kilogram, you need to MULTIPLY the price per pound by 2.204622, not divide.
I am a 20 year engineering professional. I discovered your channel yesterday an have been watching your videos for the past couple days. I must say you are amazing at explaining very technical engineering subjects. Keep up the good work.
Wow that’s huge praise! Thanks so much, we.’lol try it keep getting better and better
Is it just me that got really annoyed When he shower the vist for each element where he showed a pound being 2x as extensive as 1 kg meanwhile 1 kg is dubble as much as a pound
[Ricky] We are so sorry we didn't catch that.. .yes that's wrong... hopefully it doesn't take away from the data presentation. just look at the pounds... its correct.
Two Bit da Vinci No problem just thought of it but otherwise awsome video you deserve much more Very interesting info and perfectly displayed
[Ricky] Thank yo Eric for understanding, we'll hold ourselves to account and fix those sorts of things going forward! Thanks so much we're going to run polls to see what people want to see next, but you can always @twobitdavinci us on twitter! We are just pumped with our little community and would love to have you aboard!
Two Bit da Vinci yes, I was looking at the comments to see if anyone else had cathed it, the video is great, just a small error. Thanks for the awesome content.
That frustrated me lol
At timestamp 5:29 you are showing price for Li and you have the pound price confused with the kg price, it is reverse ! 1 kg = 1000g vs 1 lb = 454g
[Ricky] Yes sorry you're right... this was a very hard video to research, and a lot of late hours. Yes good catch, we'll try to clean that up going forward thank you!
I believe they are all reversed, in fact.
Looks like a lot of viewers have noticed these mistakes. LOL
60 ct/ lb or 27 ct/ kg, isnt 1 kg more than 1 lb?
First line of the description. Yes
Yes, 1 kg = 2.2 lb. So he should multiply, not divide, the $/lb by 2.2. He makes this miscalculation for other elements, including lithium and cobalt.
Please correct these values - Re they just switched or have you to completely recalculate them?
Lukas Beckers if he does not understand the relationship between pounds and kilograms, how can we trust what he is trying to prove????
if you're dumb enough to still be using lbs you have to pay a premium :-)
this episode makes so much sense today with all the Battery Day news going around with regards to Silicon in place of Graphite
I recently wrote a paper on batteries. I can only imagine the amount of research that went into making this video. Respect.
yeah, it got to the point we had to cut a lot out and make it two parts. Thank you!
wtf, 2 lb = 0.91 kg not the other way around
one kilogram is approximately 2.2 pounds
Price of Lithium: If it is $7.50/lb then the price is: $16.50/Kg. Not $3.41
Yep the person who threw those numbers into the air originally is running a racket..
indeed... bad math these days is rampant
Another very important reason for using several large cylindrical cells is cooling performance. The cooling loop is wound through the batteries and the cell size is optimized for an ideal surface area-to-volume as determined by the necessary worst-case cooling performance. It also reduces the risk of a cascading fire since the energy in each cell is smaller, and it increases the system-level tolerance for cell failure since a failed cell will either fail to conduct or short and cause the fuse to open, and in either case this will have next-to-no noticeable effect on the battery overall since each battery pack features several thousand cells.
[Ricky] Greg you're getting into part 2, yes we will cover that extensively just you wait ;)
Greg Peden
Good point regarding the surface contact area of a cylinder!
Sounds good, this is the design aspect that Nissan keeps absolutely flubbing over and over again, to me their ignorance of the importance cooling performance is astounding, doubly so since they also owned their own battery production until very recently, and ALL of the automotive companies have way more experience with liquid cooling systems than Tesla does.
such a shame people are complaining about this. So much work and energy put into this video and so much quality content. A bunch of idiots complaining about a conversion error. Look past it and appreciate what you've been given for free.
I appreciate that :)
Good job! Clear and well put together! Only one detail: there are about 2.2 lbs per kg. So the price of the raw materials for kg needs to be rectified.
Yes we noted it in the description and address it in part 2
A couple of things I noticed that you missed. Whilst Panasonic own and operate the cell manufacturing side at Giga Factory 1, Tesla have been instrumental in developing the various cell chemistry's and form factor. Also, the latest info from the last share holders meeting, it was mentioned that the next generation cell would be cobalt free.
Steve Gigafactory is Tesla own and run (it’s Tesla’s name on the side). It’s that Panasonic has significant invented in it and provided the manufacture expertise and machines. They are the cook to Tesla’s recipe
Exactly what I was trying to say...
[Ricky] so manufacturing process, optimizations in size per density and price, are where Tesla shines. But in terms of Battery chemistry, Panasonic is king. Great comments, we are so blessed to have such an amazing community of people like you with such good insight. I'll look into the next generation of batteries ,and if they are indeed Cobalt free. thanks again, we hope you'll subscribe, you the kind of person we need in our journey.
[Ricky] Yes absolutely great comment
"Tesla have been instrumental in developing the various cell chemistry's and form factor."
They use a standard form factor.......... and the chemistry too isn't all that special. Other manufacturers just have oped for cheaper alternatives with slightly worse performance characteristics but also a lower environmental impact and with a reduction in the reliance on controversial materials.
And Cobalt is instrumental in the lifetime characteristics of LiIon batteries. Change that and you are back to bog standard 18650.
You forgot one very important part of why tesla uses small cells instead of bigger cells. This is because of reparability and refurbishing. In large batteries that are solely produce to fit a specific design, the interior design of the battery makes it hard to isolate problematic portions of the cell. But with smaller cells like what Tesla uses, its much easier to find the problematic cells, remove them from the battery pack and have them recycled. This leads to a much smaller percentage of the battery pack needing to be replaced upon imminent failure.
[Ricky] Didn't forget, that's in Part 2, where we talk about the battery pack!
also thermal control is much simpler and safer, that was also one of the major reasons behind going for small batteries
Reparability = bullshit. It's just a design they embraced from day 1 because they had to use off-the-shelf computer parts to fill their Lotus Elise. Now they're optimizing, but, still, there's need to cut costs, so they will keep almost the same kind of harnesses and just make their custom cells, cells that they probably custom-ordered from a laptop parts maker in china.
Also, the cell used are already common format, the 18650 format is the most prevalent one in vaping devices as it can deliver a lot of power in a burst fashion. ( my lg hg2 are rated 20A continuous and 35A burst discharge rates ). But only 3A/h of capacity...
@@MmeHyraelle They dont use 18650 anymore, not since they started production on the Tesla Model 3. Now they use their own modified version of the 18650, its taller and wider but double capacity to a max of 6000mAh and uses more reliable materials.
Slight error, the first Roadster packs were off the shelf lithium cobalt chemistry not NCA.
[Ricky] Interesting, yeah that makes sense... I think i saw some conflicting reports, but that makes way more sense. thanks for sharing!
LiCoO2 to be exact.
Another big plus for small cells in Tesla is that each small cell can be quickly cooled of or warmed up, quickly, if necessary. Lithium batteries hate being too cold or too hot. In the Tesla packs, each small cell is partially wrapped by a liquid cooling 'blanket' that can provide cooling , in the fast charging mode, or heating, in the artic like conditions. The cabin A/C provides colding. For hoting, all on board hoting areas are used(ie...computing heat and whatever other heat sources can scrounged up) . If that isn't enough, resistance heaters are used from the battery, and this is a significant battery drain which leads to big losses in m.p.g. The colding losses are smaller.
You’re talking part 2 ;) yes great points!
the mine you show is a copper mine... and fun fact it's my place of employment.
Awesome content. Well structured and understandably presented. There are some setbacks like the weight swap and some forgotten letters here and there, but this can be fixed with some reviewing. I see great potential in this channel. Keep it up.
Great video! Can't wait for part 2 and more!
Thanks so much! We’ll have our next poll soon.
As a huge fan of both Tesla & Panasonic, I'm rooting for them big time. Love my Model 3!
you have a model 3
you're so lucky :/ i'm a huge fan of tesla but will probs never have the money for 1 :/
@@TheFragturedNerd Give it another 10 years or so for their production to really ramp up and for more model options, people like you are the market they're trying to reach. They had to do all of the expensive and sporty stuff to prove to investors and customers that EV's aren't lacking in capability.
That said, I'm in the same boat, I can't wait to have the money for a Tesla.
@@snyave3400 he has a verified check too 🌞
@@TheFragturedNerd it's ok man, 😊
That was an incredibly well-researched and insigtful video on the chemistry of EV batteries... completely hooked! Great job guys! Looking forward to the next parts in the series.
Teslas video's are soothing .
Because I've deans listed for years at LA trade tech in electrical math, refrigeration and engineering .
I can't be lied to about anything .
Look forward to part 2.
Thanks, in the early 70's I worked driving a propane poll hyster, hauling rolls of carpet. The company had a new ideal of doing things. They brought in this much smaller, total electric poll hyster. All of hyster drivers thought, "no way, this little thing can handle the work load, can't possible do the job". Well needless to say, after a week or so of using this smaller total electric hyster, well all fell in love with it. Much fast and, no fumes,, and could pick up more rolls because it was smaller. Faster on everything and only once a day did we have to change out this huge battery. A batter about the size of 4'x4' huge battery. Done with a crane at a place where it was done quickly 15 minutes tops. The whole plant eventually changed to "all electric". The little things were so fast we had to have a class on how to drive them slower and safer. Carrying possibly 3 to 4 tons of carpet can be dangerous. So electric is where the country needs to be. I'm guessing I will love Tesla but they are pricey. I'm not sure which one to buy. 310 mile range on the newer S models or a P 90 much faster but older one. I found one for 62 thousand a used one but a new Model S is about the same. So new or old? I truly don't know. Thanks for your video.
Lead acid likely, was this in CA or overseas? Good info!
Glad you can afford one most of us cannot!
@@chevychase3103 We're sticking our neck out to buy one and we might not. It's hard to tell what the good Lord wants us to do, after all it's his money the wife says. The price will come down and gas motors are not going anywhere for the moment. I'm sorry you can't afford one. Peace Brother!
What a great video! This content was very informative and professional.
Keep it up!
Thank you, that was well researched, and I deeply appreciate the time invested , and knowledge shared!
Thanks means a lot thank you!
@@TwoBitDaVinci I am sorry that was not that well "researched" Maybe 2 hours on google, but you have no real depth of knowledge, you just after clicks and probably money.
Neither of these video's constitute a definition of "well researched". Both have some gross inaccuracies and display a pro-Tesla bias that bridges the yanwing abyss of incredulity with pseudo-science and baseless assertions.
Convince me with facts, not with BS.
I helped build them, Models S,3,X.
Challenging at times, 12hrs, graveyard shift, 3½yrs. I've dropped the tack time 36sec to
MOT line at 4 stations east and west sides 10 and 20. Then I continued to Chassis1 40e, 30w,30e and 40w the install of front and rear chassis. Tough stations.
wow that's awesome, we'd love to hear more from you!
Cameron, great to see you with this new channel. I wish you every success!
good job explaining the cells strategy. Interesting times - with Tesla model 3 ramping, we'll see it all prove out well or flop on it's own weight... I'm wishing them well !
[Ricky] Thanks, yeah its the most critical period in their history and its great knowing they've put so much thought into everything.
Lyle Stavast well you you just got your wish Tesla has even out sold some of the more popular gasoline cars in the Tesla three and they haven’t even caught up to all the customers who are buying them now imagine when they catch up to the people who want them and that day is closing fast.
Ummm... not sure why it was really all that critical to specifically state it - isn't it generally understood that that is why it's called what it is ?
October and November numbers are really critical, as are the 3Q18 financial results due out maybe the 1st week of November. You can see all the plugin player vehicles (pure EV and plug-in hybrids) in the space at this site - which shows Tesla just completely dominating the space now... insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
actually they are going to announce 3Q financials on Wed, 24 October... that was announced on Monday night 2 days before... bode well, or ill ?
Thank you very much for the info. I didn't know what used EV to buy because of the concern about battery life, but now it looks like Tesla batteries are the best, so I'll have to go with that.
Part two will be especially interesting for you!
Nice video! I think you will find that the Tesla's with different batteries in fact run at different voltages. 60 vs. 85 for instance. I see people supercharging those on youtube and they have different voltage ranges...
On the question of why thousands of cells rather than fewer, larger packs, I believe there are several factors you didn't mention.
1) spreading the charge/discharge current over more cells allows Tesla to charge and discharge faster without overheating.
2) it is harder to cool larger cells than small ones (the internal heat source is further from the external cooling system)
3) degraded/dead cells represent much more of a range loss with fewer, larger cells
Also, I don't believe panasonic would agree that the relationship is symbiotic or beneficial. they're apparently pretty pissed at how little they make out of the deal
Great work. Keep the good coming and all these people being negative shows they don't have the capability to make an informed video like this.
I surely subbed your channel. I like your deep research and well written script for this series.
I look forward to the next ones. Cheers.
[Ricky] Thank you Anwar! If you ever have ideas for future videos, we really listen to our community, so tweet us @twobitdavinci on twitter!
Lol... You start the video with the question of whether making the batteries is worse for the environment or not. You spent the first 9 minutes apparently building up to an answer... then tell us you don't plan to answer that question in this particular video. Wtf?
Great video, sub’d for sure. One important thing you didn’t mention about Tesla’s small cylindrical cells vs the larger flat cells used at the competitors, is that the cylindrical cells have a much greater lifespan due to it’s physical shape, it simply can’t expand and contract as much as a flat cell.
[Ricky] Great point, we will cover some of these sorts of benefits in part 2!
Does it also allow for better thermal management?
[Ricky] Absolutely, we'll cover that in P2.
Yes, especially in the Model 3 where they have aluminum cooling radiators that surround each individual cell, this is why it doesn't overheat like other EV''s and can be tracked: markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/tesla-stock-price-has-remarkable-battery-tech-that-has-been-largely-overlooked-2018-6-1027327792
Excellent video, apart from the small detail of prices being wrong when comparing pounds and kilograms.
Yes we noted the issue in the video description and also in part 2. Cheers
Pounds and Kilos.... multiply not divide!
Yes we noted it in the description and also address it in part 2! Our apologies!
Very nice video fellas, learned a few things about batteries, good job.
[Ricky] Dude we're HUGE FANS!!!!! We love your channel and I've probably seen every DIY powerwall video you've made :) any chance you're interested in a future collaboration?
Yes, PLEASE keep teaching Jehu about batteries! (ha ha... he's my go-to source for battery deals! He's just being modest.)
jehuga
Jehu, you’re a beast with your pursuit of EV tech. Love your work. When I typed your name, the autocorrect suggested Jedi. Can’t really disagree.
Jehu is the man! We are looking to use your batteries in tiny smart homes in Austin, will connect! 🌞🔋
Awesome video, thank you. Are you sure about the KG prices at 5:32 ? Thank you!
[Ricky] All kg prices are wrong we divided instead of multiply, we made a note in the video description! Thank you!
Awesome video. I had to watch it twice in order to understand all the info ( english it's not my native language). Waiting the second!
Thanks for the comment! Where are you from?
Two Bit da Vinci I am from Spain. My English is rusty, but I can follow you...need two replays...or three...very interesting
This is incredibly well produced, see you's in a year when you have a million subscribers!
Hopefully we see you again many times before then!
Absolutely!
Brilliant and interesting informative Video,what a long we we have travelled from the Le Clanche' Cells of yesteryear.
Reading all these comments, I'm not even going to watch the video. Y'all should just redo it with the correct math and reupload.
Will be looking forward to part 2
[Ricky] Yeah I think there was some pre-requisites that we needed to cover, but part 2 should be great!
Kg-pound conversion is bad. 1 kg = 2.2 pounds, so cobalt is about 90$/kg, nickel is about 10$/kg and so.
As a kg is bigger than a pound, 1 kg of something cost more than 1 pound of that.
Put correct quickly
i use these 18650'd for vaping i have a few batteries that are 3 years old charged everyday
[Ricky] Yeah they are workhorses, part 2 gets into life, and the news is definitely good :)
definitely the best rechargeable batteries i have ever used
So, the batteries are getting more explosive. Stage four: lets use potassium batteries. Lithium doesn't have enough explosive power. Anyway, the prices rising are good news. It is a motivation to look for safer chemistries.
nope they are not getting more explosive, not a single tesla has ever exploded in the same way as a petrol car can
10:20 well you can do the exact same thing with pouch and prismatic cells.
if you want twice the range, you're gonna need twice the batteries, doesn't matter if it's 5000 small or 20 large ones.
the bigger the battery, the less flexibility you have right. A car chassis has reinforcement points, ridges grooves. So the smaller the battery, ideally the more flexibility you have in designing packs. I understand your sentiment though.
I thought I’d hear “the truth” about why Model 3 production is so slow/troubled. Instead I just got a list of battery ingredients. :-(
.
Did you miss the part about batteries?
Possibly a future video!
I hear ya.
WOW fundamental error in metric conversion.. Kind of makes the whole thing a waste of time to watch..
explain. so others can learn from it.
@@brett7011 Google it. So other's can not learn the stupidity of asking stuff in a COMMENT, when they could just use GOOGLE!
@@Dr1ftop1a he can explain rather than complain and nitpick about a math error.
@@brett7011 Nitpick!? No, that is not nitpicking! If that is a nitpick then we would not been in space, or even have planes! Sorry that a pretty important thing is a nitpick for you. ,,Explain" what? Every other comment is about it but whatever...
To my understanding the configuration of cylindrical shape of battery is safer as well.
Each sheets of metals are rolled up together to form the cylinder. During rough drive the vibration force exerted on each sheet is tangent to the cylinder.
For comparison, non-cylindrical battery, during vibration the force is perpendicular to each layer.
kiryu nil and yet stories of Tesla burning drivers alive occurred every few months.. Safe is relative I guess
Shane Campbell
There you go! Sweeping statement, untrue.... Gives wrong information to those who aren't inclined to check, but may pass the info on....... Easy!
Roger Starkey and yet you have no information to disapprove. IIntetesring! Ever hear of an i3, leaf burning an owner alive or firedept unable to extinguish... the dense packing by Tesla has consequences, like it or not!
Shane I see that your distrust is no longer related to battery's shape. Perhaps you will find comfort to know NFPA report everyday there is one person died from car fire. On average there are 31 car fires per hour. -www.nfpa.org
Shane Campbell specify which owner was "burnt alive" and which car the fire department was unable to extinguish.
(This should be fun!)
Interesting topic and excellent production. I can't believe only 54k subscribers. Subscribed!
There are other reasons why Tesla persists with the many small cylindrical cell approach to building their traction batteries. Initially they took that path because the 18650 cell was produced in large numbers for laptop computers so good quality cells were available in quantity for a reasonable price. In current Tesla cars these cells live in the bottom of the vehicle in a single layer of vertical cells, an arrangement that helps keep all cells at very close to the same temperature when coupled with adequate thermal management. An alternative approach would to be to use a lesser number of larger prismatic cells but heat generated inside the cells is much more difficult to remove than it is for many smaller cells. The larger pouch cells as used in the Nissan Leaf do not suffer from this problem but as configured in the leaf they are fitted beneath the floor so have to be mounted horizontally in layers, the cells in the upper layers get cooked by the heat coming form the lower layers and that is bad (not helped by zero thermal management). So small cylindrical cells are the best compromise when it comes to finding space in the vehicle to house them and providing the best thermal management. The current Tesla design lends itself to robot manufacture (probably a dedicated machine rather than a general purpose robot) so the extra mechanical/wiring complication over prismatic is not a big deal.
well said!
Dogphlap I agree my 2016 Leaf SV had to get a new battery pack with only 26000 miles on it due to battery degradation my next EV is going to be a model 3
Awesome vid, man! Love the editing, knowledge, and breakdowns!
[Ricky] Thank you, sir! Much much more to come :)
Teslas new battery which isn't in production yet doesn't use any cobalt. its a few years away
Can't wait till part 2
[Ricky] Thanks! It comes out in two weeks!
The "Stage 1" battery cell actually has a known model number, it's the Panasonic NCR18650BB. "Stage 2" is thought to be Panasonic NCR18650BG, but nobody has so far procured a BG-branded sample.
Good info!
Would just like to complement you on this production. Very well laid out and delivered. Top notch.
I found it very informative and even let the adds play in hopes you get paid for your efforts.
It did throw me off a sec with mostly American dialect then pronouncing aluminum as a Brit😉
Subscribed👍
How comes that 1lb of the same material is more expensive than 1kg of it since 1kg is more
[Ricky] That's on me... my apologies I screwed those conversions up.... just use our pound numbers those are right. So sorry about this , and we'll be sure to do better going forward!
@@TwoBitDaVinci Hi, can I ask what is the price in the chart? They are not the price for pounds, but I don't know what they are.
Very well informed video, I will share this video wit others.
[Ricky] Thanks so much! Hope you'll subscribe part 2 should be even better
It was nice yet the truth is elusive and ever changing, depending on your viewpoint. This was just another of those viewpoints. Fun to watch though.
How can it be that a kilogram is cheaper than a pound, when a kilogram has 2.2 pounds ???
One important thing for Nickel and Cobalt especially: how there are extracted and refined.
@10:00 regarding round vs flat/prismatic. AFAIK there is a much more important reason - the lifetime of the battery. With a cylindrical cell it is easy to maintain pressure on the layers in the battery to keep them from coming apart as only tension in the circumference is needed. With flat/rectangular cells this is much more difficult and would need an extremely heavy metal case to provide the same pressure against delamination. We've all seen smartphones with a bulging back, or even a broken screen due to the battery expanding. Now while the exp[ansion is itself a product of battery deterioration once the layers loose contact the process accelerates and the battery deteriorates even more quickly. On the other hand a cylindrical case will maintain its dimension regardless and keep the layers in contact, any pressure in excess of what the cylinder can take being released at the ends.
"low maintenance" can be said very loosely with their quality and lots of recals
[Ricky] Dodge Chrysler Jeep is one of the most unreliable and poorly made cars out there... I'd rather Have Tesla... but Comparing Tesla to the likes of Honda or Toyota... yeah It'll be a while for them to catch up
i agree. tesla is still a new company. in less then 10 years they will be up there.
the only thing right now that makes me not want to support tesla as a company is the lack of consumer available parts. they are very bad about that. i do hope that is to change in the future but i have my doubts
very good point, I think this is a topic many have raised as a concern, and we'll try to do a future video on it soon!
Backward figures in there, higher dollar price per lb. than per kg (which is 2.2 lbs.).
he thinks kg is less then lb I guess ahhaha
Great video! Amazing job keep it up!
Great reference video ... looking forward to part 2!
Fascinating video, explaining all sorts of things. Thanks!
The advantage of small cylindrical cells over prismatic cells is superior heat dissipation.
Indeed
it's waste of materials, time and energy, if you can make battery 3 times faster and cheaper with regular manufacturing. 1852 (or this new on, slightly bigger) format was not invented for use like this. and this is place where tesla fails, it is just too expensive, and without some heavy sponsorship from state etc, musk would be just another business man, talking about science.. and talking buisness: better not to talk about it, when comes to tesla inc., their loss jusr keep growing year by year.
Especially when they go into thermal runaway and burn your EV to the ground.
@@izoyt The leading manufacturer has it all wrong - yeah, right... Rubbish
@@mv80401 yes.
In my view and having been around very creative individuals all my life, which consisted of all facets of engineering and entrepreneurship, my opinion of Elon Musk, is he nothing short of genius. If one studies what he does totally, he has a complete unending goal which is all connected. I’ve become obsessed with this mans genius and convictions. For the sake of many, I pray he continues. He is one to watch and emulate.
Very professional. Good infos. For sure I subscribed. Thank You!
Thanks so much! Part two will be even better!
Can you imagine the battery pack weighs 1,200 lbs how is this efficient luging all the weight around. Simply Crazy
The pack weighs about 1000 lbs. but the motor weights about 70lbs compared to 300-500lbs for a gas engine. Also same for a transmission which the EV doesn’t have. So it’s not actually as crazy as you might think.
Excellent video - very informative, relaxing, and enjoyable
Glad you enjoyed it!
so thorough. awesome work. thanks
[Ricky] Thanks so much, we have tons of great stuff planned!
Great video. Love the insight on your research and learning. Going to invest in some metals!
Smart man ;) I’m with you btw
Very good and informative video man!! Thank you! Very interesting to me.
If/when cars get fully autonomus and we dont all have to own a car that stands parked most of the time. It will reduce cars. But i think the small autonomus busses will be very importent since we often go to work at the same time.
Can’t wait for part 2!
Working on it now!
Also they will be able to sell those small cells to other companies because they are used in countless numbers of electronics.
Negro are you dumb. The batteries com from panasonic. Tesla doesnt manufacture batteries.
Quattro 4 yeah, that’s right. But Tesla will produce their own batteries in a few years.
tesla has its own factories that pump out thousands of 18650 lithium batteries every day....
God damn you got yourself a new subscriber! Excellent video!
[Ricky] Glad to hear it! I think you'll part 2 even more, I'm 3D modeling the Tesla Battery Pack as we speak!
So is it destructive to mine for batteries? I felt this question went largely unanswered.
I love all the stats and numbers! Great vid!
10:23 .... I had one of those AHA moments.. Never fully understood the difference between series and parallel and you sir just BLEW MY MIND.
Great video!
Thank you sir!!
your lb kg price conversion is backwards
4:39 Urt's crust
haha yeha that was a tongue twister for me!
I've long held those same questions. With Congo being Chief among them... I support the spirit of Tesla.
Feeding the RUclips algorithm. Great video.
I think there are even better batteries than lithium ion! Also I need a 4x4 pickup truck not a car. I'm totally for 100% quiet vehicles that are cheap, minimal pollution and extremely simple, uncomplicated, very low maintenance and available from other companies than just Tesla. Keep up the good research and work! Have fuN, enjoy
[Ricky] I think inside 10 years we'll have a seriously awesome EV Truck :) yeah I agree that would be awesome.
Google1 User
ruclips.net/video/JQmz11CunUs/видео.html
Roger Starkey Nice
check out the Bollinger B1.
apagoogoo that thing is expensive
nice video man i like it, you need more subs
thank you sir!
The day will come when Tesla makes a battery that will last 1,000 miles/charge. That's what I'm waiting for to buy one.
hmm
Even if Tesla invents a battery that produces 1000wh/l it will never happen! IBM is your next battery guru! Lithium will be a disaster financially when this comes out!
@@offgridselfteliant what?
You will wait forever, Mr. KnowItAll. 🤦🏻♂️
The small cell idea is a good one in the beginning when they have to deal with outsourcing battery production, but in the long run, they will be far better off to use larger prismatic cells instead since it really doesn't cost that much to produce the cells in any shape you want and with larger prismatic pouches you gain better thermal stability and easier cooling along with better safety since prismatic cells will expand during a fault condition which tends to break the connection rather than starting a fire. Even if a nail or screw were to puncture the pack.
How is cooling easier?
Tesla had to create special bent cooling tube plates to fit in between the cells so that each cell could be individually cooled and this makes the pack construction more of a pain even with advances in production. It also leaves the possibility that some cells will not have good contact which may affect the longevity of some cells over time. With prismatic cells, you can use flat conduction plates that are easily stackable and make contact with one large cooling plate that can cool the entire pack and maintain the same temp across the whole battery compartment. With larger prismatic cells you also have far fewer points of failure.
[Ricky] How often is coolant run in a prismatic cell? Between each layer? Of course not, I'm not sure exactly which care you're referring to, but Tesla has a patented wavy coolant manifold that touches each and every battery in their packs. This surface area, to volume, gives them exceptionally good cooling, and I've yet to hear of any prismatic battery that comes close. Please send us any links with specifics, and we can always do future videos!
It really depends on the manufacturer. Most use a thermally conductive plate between cells that also provides added rigidity and support. They can then cool one or both sides of the modules. Some manufacturers do have manifold plates between every other cell but this is not really necessary since the larger prismatic cells tend to dissipate heat fairly well. Tesla's bent tube manifold design does not guarantee thermal contact for every cell, especially when they go through a few thermal cycles. That is part of the reason why they had to use thermally conductive glue for the model 3 pack assembly to attach each cell to the bent tube manifold they have snaking through the pack. With the model S packs it was very possible to get hotspots.
The prismatic cell design allows for a much larger cell package with as much cooling as needed in just about any configuration with fewer parts to minimize construction time and simplify control.
kuhrd, 2 words, coolant circulation.
Great video. Nice info and presentation!
I can't get over the fact that in all my years, it has been very uncommon to have *any* battery outlast the device that it goes into. Drills, computers, phones, emergency exit lamps, etc. Then factor in the self-discharge rate. Use it or not, the car is going to be dead in 10 years. I hope I am wrong, but just because a Panasonic 18650 cell is dumped into a car, it is supposed to last longer?
Battery technology has a ways to go yet.
Paul I’m working on part two as we speak! Please subscribe and wait for part two on Saturday! I’d love your feedback after seeming it
Paul I am sorry, but to put it politely, you have literally zero idea of what you’re talking about. You simply can’t compare a drill, laptop, phone etc with a car. The battery management is like comparing cheese with chalk. I have friend in San Diego with a 2012 Tesla, still going fine, still on it’s original battery, LOTS of miles on the odometer.
We will see. Like I said, hopefully I am wrong. It would not take much to implement battery management into a laptop computer, nor a battery drill these days but nobody does that. If you go to flea markets / swap meets, they are littered with battery tools. But they almost never work. If management is the cure to the problem, I wish they would implement it.
How many miles is "A LOT?" To some people, that is 70,000. I have 20 years and 248,xxx on my Jeep. It is like one of those car ads where they advertise "Low miles" or "high miles". The odometer only tells about 1/3 of the story anyway. This guy probably has his own home where he can charge the thing daily, combined with the temperate climate of San Diego. It probably lives a good life. As with any car that lives a good life, it'll be a long life.
And miles miles miles. It is only 6 years old... maybe 7. Give it another 4 years, and lets see where it is at.
You get to do a battery upgrade like on my Leaf! Cars are computers fully now.
@@paulstandaert5709 Cop cars show you the more damaging idle hours too. Electric is the way to go.
"The truth about" = instantly insinuating they are fake somehow... lol I can't watch such a clickbait
Hehe yes. Not the best title.
The video is more of response to several other videos on RUclips about the subject. This author hopes to present his version based on data and fact he has established with the data.
I think it was more like a truth when there is a lot of people who do not know anything about Teslas, but has read information about EV's as a whole.
If you have to be fanboy or think someone should not talk bad about Tesla, you do not rely your opinions on facts. This video shows the facts about Tesla, good or bad, for everyone.
Thank you for using the metric units 👏🏽
great video. One small correction: 1kg = 2.2lbs so the price of lithium looks inverted (the video says $7.5/lb or $3.41/kg)
Yeah noted that in the description
Can we just be honest its in 2 parts so you get more views, and hey I don't blame you lol, great video I'm off to watch part 2
No it’s in 2 parts because we spent 100 hours in research, 100 hours of 3D modeling and rendering, and 30 hours video editing. We couldn’t make it all happen in a two week window. Cheers!