Tesla's Quest for Better Batteries
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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References:
[1] www.bloomberg....
[2]www.tesla.com/...
[3]www.bloomberg....
[4] batteryunivers...
[5] batteryunivers...
[6] www.energy.gov...
[7] Study of SEI. How it happens. www.upsbatteryc...
[8] intercalation reference chem.libretext...
[9] Dry battery explaination www.powersource...
[10] www.nature.com... best SEI resoruce
[11] arxiv.org/ftp/...
[12]ntrs.nasa.gov/...
[13] www.maxwell.com...
[14] cleantechnica....
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Are we going get a video about ultra capacitors?
@@nathanracher2911 This video is about ultracapacitors.....
make a video about foldable phones
Never mind then.
@@nathanracher2911 My titles tend to not be too SEO friendly to be fair!
Another plus with Maxwell's dry-coated battery technology is that they don't need Cobalt.
Thanks for your insightful comment ! That can have really big implications on geo-politics and environmental impact.
Didn't know that, and I spent a week researching this video. That's a big deal. Lithium is relatively easy to get compared to cobalt
@Sandcastle • Well, it becomes an irrelevant argument if the batteries don't need any Cobalt!
@@RealEngineering The most authentic source I could find is Maxwell Technology's 21st Annual Needham Growth Conference. There is a brief description of their technology as: "No Solvents, Next Gen Materials, Cobalt-Free, Solid State".
@@RealEngineering And not to forget that lithium is a minority component of Li-Ion batteries. There's 63kg of Lithium in a Tesla 70kWh battery pack (weighing 543kg in total).
Took me a while to understand anode and cathode definition and there is a lot of confusion out there due to different applications, but just remember:
Anode= electrons leaving (i.e conventional current enter) ( on the external circuit)
Cathode= electrons enter (i.e conventinal current leaving) ( on the external circuit)
this means in a rechargable battery the anode and cathode change place under load and charging. In electronics you have diodes with fixed anode and cathode and the definition of anode and cathode are true in the forward biased direction.
Thanks for the video, great work!
As an electrical engineer, i think you made a great, correct and very well explained video on this topic. Well done, keep up the good work
I'm not an electrical engineer and I spotted at least 3 errors related to electrical topics.
Watching this video again made me realize there's gonna be fierce competition with who has best EV battery with all factors involved. I think this will be especially paramount with the new taxi eVTOL's coming out with companies like Joby, Archer Aviation & Lilium to name a few.
Finally! Someone who gets the use of supercapacitors right! The number of videos that get it wrong is appalling.
Every once in awhile, I have to remind myself that no matter how polished and well presented the information is; it is sometimes wrong completely, and often wrong in part.
Or maybe they're just looking deeper into the future?
he isn't right either, since tesla never said it'll use ultracapacitors in vehicles
Serge Pavlovsky : I believe Elon has alluded to the use of Ultra Capacitors for acceleration and regeneration, where supercapacitors can handle the short-term high energy density requirements. I’ll stand to be corrected, since my 75-year old memory “ain’t what it used to be” 😀
@@dewiz9596 batteries have no issues handling short-term, they are throttled long-term
Great explanation of how batteries perform in cold weather environments. My 2016 Chevy Volt loses about 30-40% of its charging performance during the winter months. Fortunately, the Volt can use gasoline when it’s needed. The Volt’s design has helped me to save more than $1000 a year in annual fuel costs.
Real Engineering.....
I am more than awed by your great videos.
I am one of your oldest subscribers and I have noticed one thing ...you make BETTER AND BETTER pieces of art and devotion each time you upload...they aren't just videos they are an entire book about passion , about real Engineering feats
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU
Yeah, which force tho?
@@orvvro newton's force
i think it's because brilliant.org is a great product
I subbed around 200k, I think. I've watched this improvement over time; great work, RE.
I disagree with regard to the visualisations of things.
I'm not talking about quality of animation, but about what's shown, while the script is read. In this video: pretty footage of cars, while he talked about things happening on the molecular level. What?
I've hoped that both Real Engineering and Wendover Productions would get better at this since pretty much the beginning of their channels, but haven't found it to be the case. Comparison of amounts for example, would massively benefit from improvement. "Mice weigh this much, and cows weigh X times more!" - Show. Don't tell. Show 2 boxes, where one is X times as large as the other.
I think there's a typo in the cathode material. It says LiNiCoAiO2 but I think it should be LiNiCoAlO2. Aluminum instead of uhh.... something?
That said, this is a fantastic video.
Of course! No wonder mine doesn't work!
We should start a petition to change Aluminum's symbol from Al to Ai so that we can say RE didn't make a mistake.
Adobe Illustrator oxyde
I dont know why it bothers me so much but I couldn't listen to the video the whole time it was on screen! LoL
In the same scene, the anode and cathode are labelled with the incorrect polarities as well; I think they must have been a little tired when animating that segment!
Oh my god the education industry on RUclips is getting so exciting, EVERYONE is calling everyone else out! "corporate owned channels"
Monetized "experts"
hmmm not really all
there are INDEPENDENTS
It's true, Look at all these short form 15 minute videos, 5 of those minutes are allocated for their sponsors, who all tell you "The first 200 to sign up...." I call them long form commercials.
Nico Capannelli if it wasn’t medium sized sponsors with no stake in the videos topic then its better than being owned by the big corporations who control swaths of the industry and profit from misinformation. That or he’d have to put mid-roll adds all over the place and increase video production which would lower quality and he’d have less free time. Ultimately it’s the better of 3 evils
@@kimokla3874 imumm
This is a REALLY good video: I've been reading articles & watching videos on battery and energy storage, and you did a great job at getting into the details!
This is actually super interesting and it's crazy how many factors actually affect batteries lol
lotta variables out there, once you start looking.
its cooled battery chemistry innnit
Since you find this interesting: All of those factors don't only affect a cars battery, but the batteries in all your mobile devices as well (obviously). Thinking about how you use/charge those batteries in your daily life can make their lifes longer, e.g. letting you use your laptop/smartphone longer with a healthy batterie. The Tesla does this by itself, but your phone only does it limited.
This video is a *must watch* for every EV buyer.
Well done. I'm glad you talked about Maxwell.
I just read about them and Tesla two weeks ago.
True, but it has its downsides to have these informations.
-after the model 3 was announced, I waited to go past the first production models (usually problematic early production)
-then they announced AP3 hardware, waiting for it again
-and now I want to wait for how they implement Maxwell tech into their cars
..it seems that I will never buy this car :D
@@RandomTheories
also they became cheaper recently, because of switching to online sell only
I find it very admirable that Elon puts up the patents of these vehicles up for use without having to purchase a license, all for the purpose of making transportation greener, even if that means they receive more competition.
Yeaaaaaaah, about that. The clauses for companies to use them make it basically unusable by any of their actual competitors. Still an admirable move, but not near as altruistic as it may seem
Real Engineering Are you referring to the part which essentially requires them to do the same thing with their EV patents?
Real Engineering oh, my bad then
Not to mention patents have to be incredibly specific. To the point where most patents are useless, make a single tiny change and the patent no longer applies.
Thanks for showing how clueless this person is
I'm a sales engineer for a battery company. We sell high discharge engine start batteries. We used to offer these maxwell capacitors in conjunction with our batteries. Due to mainly their high cost and partially their niche application on the market, we just discontinued offering these.
tesla is using maxwell dry cell technology, these are more advance then what you offered.
So supercapacitors are just RAM sticks in an EV
Umm, sounds great for my railgun project
No. They are like caches. Batteries are like RAM sticks.
ram sticks in an EV are like supercapacitors
meon email to be specific, they couldn’t be either cache nor RAM, as both immediately lose information when powered off, they can’t store anything. The best comparison I can think of is the batteries are SSDs and supercapitors are Optane memory
So does that mean supercapacitors are just springs?
Wow! I didn't expect such an in-depth video. You did an amazing job there!
Yeet happy to see an informative vid about the batteries in these monsters!
Not as good as Elon Musk hosting meme review
But, they are Panasonic batteries. Panasonic makes them (final assembly only) in the Tesla gigafactory, Tesla just provides some of your tax money to help fund them. BTW, have you ever seen or heard Tesla or Musk say how much better these cars are for the environment? Isn't the main selling point? It must be tough to calculate, especially since gasoline cars are 99% cleaner than when at their worst in the 60's (you can look that up too, not a secret).
They are cars
@@coffeehawk electric cars are everything included already cleaner than gasoline cars. What is more important that they are an advancment towards a green future; somthing that would be not possible with gasoline cars
@@G.Giorgio But they're not cleaner anymore, that's the point. Deep down you know that because you have NEVER read or heard Tesla or Musk say how clean they are, and isn't that the main selling point for them as you yourself just said? Not a troll, try to find it. All the money and energy spent on new factories, etc. should have gone to C02 removal and planting trees, if you believe that human made C02 is an issue. You want to be nice to the earth, buy a USED VW diesel. 50 mpg highway (double the national average).
I'm waiting for the perfection of rubber band technology.
Thank you Tubmaster 5000, very cool
Don't you think that's stretching things a bit? :-)
Tubmaster, don’t get caught in the loop. We must band together and be flexible and pull the trigger sooner than later.
I power my car with hampster wheels. It does give off methane but it only costs a piece of bread each day. And they do die if you don't water them.
Heard of the book "the windup girl?" Algae based rubber band tech is the future 😜
Amazing, loved the video. Clearly explained, good visuals, great audio/voice acting. It's important bc most of the visuals, though interesting, aren't the main focus. The main focus is the audio.
Very well done, can only imagine the countless hours taken to produce this. Legally obligated to give you a like at this point
15:18
Tesla: "We're working to save the environment"
Car: *randomly drives through plants*
Good catch,
Extremely bad driving, Lol
I laughed at that as well. You are working on a public ad but you don't manage do get around a corner...
i guess it was the autopilot driving lol
The war has just begun
Came to point this out as well. well done.
Best channel on RUclips. So informative
so helpful
One of best for sure
So basically, the Maxwell ultra capacitor is like Glycogen while normal battery is like carbs
Sorta, yeah.
don't you just love how concepts converge in otherwise totally unrelated fields
Yea quick energy vs stored
thanks now i understand it better!
thanks, that really helps me understand this
We are an ocean crossing electric sailboat with AGM batteries. We have been sailing this setup for 4 years and are now looking to replace/upgrade to Lithium.
The price of these batteries has come down incredibly in these years.
Use the saltwater to propel your ⛵ boat by building a saltwater battrey you have a endless supply of saltwater with ions to use just think about it man!
I am seriously addicted to your videos. Every video is well thought out, critical of the arguments involved with the topic, and has a clear conclusion like a well written paper. Seriously awesome job. This is some of the best content out there.
capacitor is the N2O of electric vehicles.. future drag racing will be all about capacitors lol
LMAO I imagine it's even better here since the ultracapacitor energy can be slowly renewed by the batteries themselves, so you could probably boost after reaching any straight (on a non drag race that is). Like having a finite but self rechargable reserve of N2O taking from the fuel tank somehow.
What day race fans, Saturday! Fire breathing capacitors thundering down the track! Saturday! Saturday! Saturday!
Drag racers using lead-acid batteries might be a good solution
Capacitors could be great for drag racing. You're only going a quarter mile, so energy density isn't important.
If you actually want to drive your vehicle anywhere, they won't store anywhere near enough energy for their size and weight.
That's why Tesla (and others) use lithium ion batteries exclusively. I shouldn't have to say this, but the people doing this are not stupid.
@@bobby1970 I'm not going to be the one complaining about fuel shortages. As much as I love classic muscle cars, if you haven't at least done an engine swap, you're just wasting fuel in a subpar piece of steel to produce sad amounts of horsepower. If you've got a block smaller than 350cu, my Volvo can beat your ass through a combination of better aero and 5-cylinder power. Embrace the future, kiddo. Convert to electric, and your motors will have so much more torque in them.
Great video - please credit my battery cost curves in your description. Cheers
Hey, just added it to the list of references. Not sure why that link wasn't already in there! We normally have onscreen reference numbers too, but they got left out in the rush to meet our deadline. Thanks for the great work! Some of the best tech writing on the web.
Cheers - and keep up the great work with this channel. Solid fact-based perspectives are valuable and will ultimately separate the wheat from the chaff. More power to you.
@@maximilianholland Nobody does anything without making sure they get some internet karma these days huh...
@@IHateGoogle6969 -- crediting people's work isn't about internet karma, it's about citing sources so you can verify facts, and it's about people's work being recognized which helps their career & future employment / $.
@@IHateGoogle6969 did you read their back and forth, cordial, unlike yourself, who isn't even in the loop.
Love the footage @ 1:33 of the Otways in Victoria AU
@Real Engineering 3:56 You have the plus and minus symbols switched
Glad I wasn't the only one to notice
I think in an electrolytic cell the anode is actually positive while the cathode is negative
@MaciekBroken If you want to be entirely correct the negative electrode is the anode when discharging since a oxidation takes place there (Li->Li+ + e-). When charging the negative electrode is the cathode since a reduction takes place there (Li+ + e- -> Li). For the pos. electrode it's the other way around. But usually the neg. electrode (graphite) is referred as the anode and pos. as cathode (metal oxide) since it's in discharging direction.
In one definition, yes. But I think he said it wrong as the cathode is usually positive.
Exactly! The anode is the positive part of the cell. Very basic error, if you ask me..
So refreshing to watch an informative video on developments in battery technology, devoid of hype and inaccuracies. No-one realistically expects a major new breakthrough in battery chemistry any time soon, but I think we can be optimistic about significant improvements in range and reduced degradation in the next decade, to the point where EVs will become more attractive to motorists than petrol / diesel cars.
Done.
How does this guy know all this stuff? Brilliant. Just brilliant.
3:58 The animation is showing Cathode and Anode charges switched from the correct charge. Should be Positive Anode, Negative Cathode.
Yes I think it's correctly written but he said it in a reverse manner
The Cathode is Positive
The Anode is Negative
Forgive my fellow engineer for his negligible mistake.
No it is written correctly but said wrong. Oxidation (electrons leaving) is always at the anode which is negative in voltaic cells.
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.531.5596&rep=rep1&type=pdf. Page 5 has an excellent diagram.
Nikola Tesla was spot on when he said "The present is theirs, but the Future, which I worked for, is mine."
I like how you just called out seeker. Their channel has been subpar and is becoming click bait
Don't forget to hit that like button.
@@danstevens64 And click subscribe.
If only brilliant was all I needed. I see a world full of people doing amazing things, but can't see any way I could ever be a part of it.
You can do it!
I'm sure it's been said before, but your segues to you ads are amazingly seamless. Bravo. It takes like 5-10 sec before I even known you're pushing the ad. Honestly, great work.
4:04 there is a mistake in the charge signs of the anode and cathode.
Thanks, i was questioning myself.
What do you mean? Cathode is the positive electrode and anode is the negative one (cations are positive ions and anions are negative).
@@samovarmaker9673 anions move to the anode ( chlorine ions to anode ) and cations move to cathode ( sodium ions to cathode ).
@@samovarmaker9673 isnt it the opposite way
Negative and positive, unfortunately, have the complete opposite meanings in the context of chemistry than they do in the context of electricity. See here: www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/direct-current/chpt-1/conventional-versus-electron-flow/
It's only a matter of time before I'll join your patron just to repay you for all this knowledge.
Thanks for a truly fantastic channel of inspiration and fascination!
3:54 they're right in the graphic, but I think you might have reversed which part of the battery has which charge in the voice over...
Just WOW, what a video, the quality, content and level of knowledge
Rapid charging from braking has to be the most genius thing ever. As I drove more and more I started getting mildly annoyed at the thought of accelerating only to brake back down to the same speed.
Imagine being on the highway and thinking you can accelerate and then traffic gets congested. You hit your brakes and get back a portion of your expended energy. Love it.
16:48: Real Engineering.exe is not responding
Still running, but lost the vocal audio channel.
Great video but you merged some of the cell ageing mechanisms. You covered the growth of the SEI pretty well, but you didn't cover the issue of the electrolyte digesting itself with side reactions, which is worst at high temperatures and/or high voltages. This, if i recall, is what killed the Leaf.
Basically SEI issues increase with the number, depth and rate of cycles (high and low temperatures also play a part).
By contrast, parasitic reactions within the electrolyte and between the electrolyte and other components don't need ANY cycles. Just hold a lithium battery at the top of its charge curve and keep it warm and it will electrochemically destroy itself even without you cycling it.
Again, this is where they went wrong in testing the first Leaf batteries. They thought cycle number was the main aging factor when it was actually just cumulative time spent above half charge that was really killing their batteries. If you test cycle a battery 500 times in a month it spends only 2 weeks above half charge and the test results look splendid. (I refer to half charge for simplicity's sake, but the capacity loss/voltage/temperature curves are obviously on some kind of exponential function that gets way worse at the extreme. You would expect electrochemical engineers to know about this from first principles but somehow it must be less predictable than one would think).
You emphasise the clogging of the SEI, to which both of the above contribute. It is true that car batteries are usually retired because internal resistance prevents the car delivering power fast enough, and the main effect of a clogged SEI is increased internal resistance leading to reduced power density. However, I believe total capacity decrease is also a big factor in the decision to retire a car battery. Capacity decreases because lithium gets irreversibly tied up in side reactions, as well as in the reactions that build up the SEI.
Great video. One mistake you made is that you said Tesla now owns Maxwell technologies. They made an offer that was accepted, the Maxwell *shareholders* has to approve the sale. So it's not quite so close to being done but will likely go through
Edit: there's currently litigation ongoing from some of the shareholders to prevent the sale that may or may not go anywhere.
Are you sure? I don't understand the merger process, but I thought the board has already approved that, judging from:
_The Merger Agreement and the consummation of the Offer, merger and other transactions contemplated in the Merger Agreement have been unanimously approved by Maxwell's board of directors, all of whom recommend to the Company's stockholders that they accept the Offer and tender their Maxwell shares pursuant to the Offer._
Source: investors.maxwell.com/investors/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2019/Maxwell-Technologies-Announces-Definitive-Merger-Agreement-with-Tesla-Inc/default.aspx
Dumbass. It's the regulators that have to approve. The board already did before the announcement.
@Jan van Coppenhagen thank you for the correction, I've edited the post to reflect the shareholder lawsuit
@@charlech Hilarious that you are both rude and incorrect. What an ass.
For anyone interested in the Mergers & Acquisition process, the Board of company A decides its in their company's best interests to merge with or acquire company B. They do their due diligence, scouring publicly available information about the other company and crunching numbers to see if their hunch holds up. If it does and its not a hostile take-over they send their offer to the Board of company B. They are duty-bound to study it. Why? Because they are legally bound to act in the best interests of their company's stakeholders and especially their shareholders. So the company could be doing great, just like you could be really happy with your house, but if someone offers you 10X its market price you have to consider it, talk to your partner, think about your kids. Company B's Board has to study the offer and then tell its shareholders about it along with their recommendation to accept or decline. Let's say the shareholders accept, both boards still have a little more work to do. Now they agree to share more data with each other, things that may not have been in the public domain and they confirm the deal is still good and there are no nasty surprises. When everyone is on board, this is when it goes to regulators who's job it is to consider the public interest. Either they give their blessings, suggest amendments or deny permission.
1) this really helped my understanding of battery tech
2) this really helped my understanding of super/ultra capacitor tech
3) I already long for the day when cars have battery packs and supercap packs
4) I wonder if supercap packs could be retrofitted into current EV and PHEV cars. I guess it would require changes to charge and battery management systems
Watch this, you'll find it interesting.
ruclips.net/video/KQ2Eo6wl5r0/видео.html
Note: I now understand that Skeleton is an offshoot of Maxwell.
What great video for people like me who are not technically qualiied in electrics/electronics.
Comprehensive yet concise and relevant.
Not a single minute wasted on 'fillers.'
I was a bit taken aback at the end where you mentioned Brilliant, which I think you said is a subscrition based site. For a moment I thought that was a little contradictory. You mentioned some sites being 'corporate', but then suggested that we visit Brilliant. I am *not* implying anything by this. It is merely an observation.
Thank you for a very informative video.
Liked. Subscribed.
diagram of the cell shows cathode as positive and anode as Negative which obviously is reverse , shouldn't have made past the final edit might confuse someone the audio description is correct though
Edited... Oh, the irony.
Ultra capacitors are wearing down on charge/discharge, just not so fast. They have lifetime of about 10 years and about 0.5m cycles. Info taken from Maxwell site.
Solvents can be captured and reused though. CO2 extraction uses this method.
I was surprised the solvents were not being at least partially recaptured.
Sometimes recapturing can be more expensive than just buying more solvent.
Probably there is solvent degradation due to high temperatures used to extract them from electrode.
I think he meant that its getting captured but only with regard to environmental issue, but that quantities/benefits retrieved aren't enough to be exploited in a economic sense, don't u think ?
Recapturing is very energy intensive
*whispers in graphene*
_remember the graphene hype_
You are an example for everyone who wants to be an youtuber. Each video is better than the previous one!
I thought I knew everything about car batteries until I watched this documentary, well done!
yo dont know jack shit about batteries
Thanks for giving us all the Informations! Learning everyday.
Give battery a 100 years it will evolve beyond recognition.
We will have dilithium crystal and wrap drive!!! The future is much brighter. Hopefully we'll have synthesizer or replicator. Money are useless, disease eradicated, war are gone. Just like star trek.
@@duketlam9206 what's your I.q
@@duketlam9206
"Wrap drive"
Great at lunch time!
Batteries have been around for much longer.
@@hr1100 but never worked upon like the way we are working on them now a days.
FYI a big rig truck engine by itself is around 3,000 lb the transmission is in the hundreds as well. And many hold at least 100 gallons of gas that will weigh approximately 670 lb. Everything is very heavy in big rigs and the Tesla semi won't have a lot of that stuff so there is a lot of weight that can be swapped for a battery.
this is probaly the most interesting and honest video about batteries i have seen. Not only about tesla, its a great video to watch in general about current batteries and the quest to improve. thanks alot you earned a subscriber.
i was waiting for skillshare ad.. but got brilliant
This will greatly help solar power technology, I think the biggest cost with solar power involves battery expenses. Every time I plan a new solar system for my house the biggest cost is always the batteries.
Do a search for diy powerwall on youtube.
Seen people build for as little as 300 usd per kw/h with new but surplus cells.
There are companies that only deal in surplus new cells and fully tested used cells and sell for a fraction of new ones.
@@baronvonlimbourgh1716 300kw/h?! holy fudge, HOLY FUDGE! Thanks man I appreciate it.
@@zereimu yeah, that 300 per kw/h was an extreme example done by very dedicated and creative people though. I do not want you to get to excited and be disapointed :).
But it can still be done a lot cheaper then the commercial solutions out there currently without to much hassle and with of the shelf parts.
Even at 500 or 600 dollar per kw/h it is still a lot cheaper then commercial solutions and that is certainly doable if you shop around.
Ahh well, maybe you are just as dedicated and creative and you are able to beat those guys. It is kinda a competition going on to be the one who finds the cheapest solution.
If you enjoy that stuff as well and have the time i am sure you can do it even cheaper!
Prices are constantly coming down on all this stuff.
11:38 Where did that attack on Seeker come from. Because I trust you so much that now, I trust THEM less... So, could I know more?
Basically seeker is way too optimistic about everything they talk about.
The seeker title implies that ultra capacitors will replace batteries. In this video he explains that will not be the case as ultra capacitors have nowhere near the energy density as li-on batteries and therefore can not replace them. The capacitors can however complememt li-on batteries as they high a higher discharge capacity. The seeker video therefore has a clickbait title.
@@charlesk7623 yes. I know exactly what he says in this video. And yes, seeker's might be a clickbait title or they really believed it was the case. Anyway, it was a somehow bitter mention "corporate owned", and I want to know if there is something going on that we don't know.
@@sebastianstark3224 haha, that is what I always think 🤷🏻♂️
@@sergio7248 I did a quick search and seeker is indeed a corporate owned channel. It was first owned by Discovery digital network. They sold the channel to a private company called Group nine media based in new york. That company has 415+ employees according to their wiki page.
Make of that what you want. Quite interesting.
15:20 i really like how instead of saying "hard" you said "interesting" because in the end its just normal people that really fought and worked for something they believe in.
My friends only slow charged their Leaf and only drove it half of it's range per charge. The net effect was their battery did not degrade in performance over a four year period. They lost their Leaf, though, after someone collided into it and totaled it.
Can you make a video about the a380 going out of production because of low demand? how its too late to the market etc
that's a Wendover Production video
Let’s try a combination of fusion reactor+super capacitors for more expensive cars, it have more longevity than the owner!
i'm a PhD student of this topic. Fantastic video that's to say. Good job!
phd my ass
So as a PhD did you not notice how the narrator gets the battery annode and cathode + & - backwards? Rookie error.
@@DiscoFang of course I have noticed but state the overall quality of the video was the main object of my comment
@@gewizz2 sorry?
Rayard91 The video has quite a few distortions to suit their storyline. The graph scale & extrapolation is a classic technique. A significant one, that isn't on the technical side though, is that the Maxell sale hasn't actually been approved. Tesla doesn't own them.
Your channel is awesome, that whole thermal management part, I found many other famous EV channels are not discussing
I'm amazed no one seems to think of the simple solution. 2 wheel drive on the rear and 2 wheel generators on the front that charge the battery while driving. Simple but effective. Inverter required to combine the the 2 power supplies into one and charge the battery.
Li-Ion Batteries: Hard Drive
Ultra Capacitors: Solid State Disk
(Yes I know SSDs degrade like Li-Ion)
Li-Ion Batteries: Hard Drive
Ultra Capacitors: RAM
James Nguyen degradation of supercaps extremely low.....million cycles with supercaps, as opposed to a few thousands with lithium. They will help extend the life of the lithium batteries, giving them an easier life, less strain.
Actually, looking at the underlying technology, Ram is pretty much just a grid of capacitors, where nand flash is a chemical reaction very similar to a battery, this comparison makes much more sense.
SSD = chemical batteries
RAM = capacitors
What we need is Arc reactor, that makes nuclear reactor like AAA battery.
Iron man could help them
Hey, just ask Iron Man, (Oh wait, he's not real, is he?)
@@jackfenn7524 Ask Elon.... :)
I always thought "Elon Musk" was a perfume!
Yeah we just need to kidnap Elon and put him in a cave
With a box of scraps
1:50 This is a drastic change in just ten years and this chart does not represent how impressive it is since the y-axis is a bit weird.
The y axis is logarithmic. Very normal and standard in the scientific and engineering communities. When you see that you can assume that the scaling is exponential. Like earthquakes magnitude or decibal
@@frenchfryguy2012 yeah log graphs are used to exaggerate changes in the data. It's a convenient way to mislead people who do not know what log graphs are.
@@gatewaysolo104 it's only misleading if you don't think that the change from 1000-500 per unit is equally significant to the change from 100-50 per unit.
@@gatewaysolo104 You've got it backwards - logarithmic graphs look flatter than linear graphs.
Yes, yes, yes!
This is exactly what Maxwell offers Tesla.
The great combo of optimised charge delivery with capacitors and charge storage with optimised batteries.
So happy you have Tash Sultana on the screen , amazing little Aussie performer !
Anode is the negative and cathode is positive, not the other way around as stated in this video.
Basically, good capacitors are like a cache for for energy.
No, caches are like a capacitor for memory!
@@clochard4074
MY BRAIN HURTS!
Hopefully they make faster charging, higher capacity batteries
Yeah, tha'ts the whole point of getting better batteries, Captian Obvious
JRPG Guy 2 Their plan was to actually make slower charging, lower capacity batteries
@@GThenameisleo lol
Thanks to nano tecnology capacitors they will
JRPG Guy 2 there is
Check out the tesla youtube channel
You will see their new charging speed
Without a doubt the most intelligent and informed Tesla video I have ever seen. Wow. Thank you.
I loved the "corporate owned tech channels" and immediately highlighted Seeker bit.
That is quite a move there. Mixing the steady flow of Tesla batteries and the surgees to be handled by the Maxwell ultracapacitors. Very good.
Lithium Titante Oxide. Safer. High C rates. 30,000 cycles.
And much lower energy density.
Yeah. Might be more ideal for utility solar.
@@allusernamesistaken but still you would only need 50 of the 40 amp LTO cells to give you a 50kw battery. That could easily fit in an EV.
Cost?
@@Ou8y2k2 in bulk, consumers can buy them at about $250 per kilowatt from third parties on alibaba. If you got them direct from Yinlong, the manufacturer, could be cheaper?
Only new thing I learned from this 17 minutes video is Maxwell's new coating technology which could potentially increase the energy density by 20%
It reinforced something I already knew: Stick with a conventional vehicle.
"The best books are those that tell you what you know already" -George Orwell
I've just turned 50 and my boys practically use the same batteries in their xbox controller as I did in my walk & shoot robot man I got for xmas in 1976. Call me simple or layman but I'll only be impressed when an electric car can either travel 1000 km on a charge or charge itself as it's driving. Oh, and not cost north of 200k.
the batteries in a xbox controller are far different from the 2170 cells in a tesla.
Boomer
@1:35 - Tash Sultana - Didn't think to see her name in this! Decent chillaxing tune for sure
11:45 Right this is exactly how a capacitor would be used. The quick discharge could also help with the performance versions of Tesla's models. I would see the Maxwell Capacitors being used on future versions of the larger / faster models such as the Model S and Model X
Poor Nissan. The early Leafs (2010-2014) did receive a lot of negative press and while much of it was deserved, a lot was not. When Nissan's early battery chemistry is viewed from the perspective of "full" charge cycles they really weren't far from the 1000 cycles that one might expect for most automotive Li-ion batteries. A lot of the issues with Nissan's early batteries can be attributed to their being quite small at 24kWh and only rated for 74-84 miles. This required them to endure a lot more "full" charge cycles. Even under perfect conditions after 1000 charge cycles you'd only see 84,000 miles before noticing capacity loss was becoming significant. If Nissan had started with a 60kWh, 225 mile battery pack the issues would have been profoundly less noticeable even with their original chemistry. After 1000 "full" charge cycles capacity loss of even 30% would have left the Leaf with nearly 160 miles of range and few would have complained. I believe that launching the Leaf with such a small battery to begin with is what gave Nissan a black eye but in 2010 what else could they have done. Also at that time little was known about fast charging Li-ion batteries in high ambient temperatures and fast charging beyond 85% SOC. Without active cooling these were things that Nissan had to learn the hard way. Still, I believe there may be an advantage to Nissan's effort to go without an active cooling system. One of the main advantages behind the electric vehicle is its simplicity. No active cooling system means less weight, less cost, less complexity and a more robust design. I believe this will be proven out with Nissan's latest heat tolerant Li-ion chemistry especially since its now available in 62kWh size and with controlling software that won't allow charging during high stress circumstances.
But the Leaf now costs more than a Model 3!
@@waynerussell6401 True, before any state or federal incentives Tesla's least expensive Model 3 costs exactly 35,000. Nissan's least expensive Leaf has only a 40kWh battery so it really doesn't compare.
@@Tron-Jockey The base Model 3 is much more car than the Leaf! Better to compare it to the 62kWh Leaf Plus model starting at $36,550. The Leaf SV Plus will be $38,510, and the top trim, the Leaf SL Plus, is priced at $42,550! No sale...
Thanks to Nissan for taking a bullet for the EV industry.
@@waynerussell6401 Yeah, I'd agree. Not sure what Nissan's strategy is of late.
2:29 Imagine going to the ikea and sudenly a kid starts shoting with a pistol
Your videos are next level man. keep it up!
Could you make a video about solid state batteries. Many car manufacturers are investing in this technology and it has some big obvious advantages and some interesting challenges that need to be overcome. It would make a nice addition to your series about electric vehicles.
Interesting minor note, from a retired electronics tech perspective:
In thinking about Cathodes and Anodes, the Cathode (spelled with a letter "T" similar to a "+" sign) is not positive but negative with respect to electrical flow.
We need to think of the Anode as an "arrow" pointing in the direction of flow from positive to negative, quote: "The arrow points to the negative"
IE: The Anode is on the positive side. We see this in diode and transistor symbols on diagrams, it can also be thought of as a "Greater Than" or a "Lesser Than" symbol
Brilliant
Brilliant everywhere.
Did you do your daily problems?
You *roasted* Nissan and Seeker so hard that Tesla wants to give you a *ROA-D-STER*
Tesla toaster XDD
I didn’t understand a single part of this video, but I do know Tesla makes S3XY cars
Yeah I donno the part about the Solvent vs Dry Coating was understandable. Burning off solvent is toxic for the environment. A Dry coat eliminates all that and gives better performance however that works. The next model Y will probably have that technology.
A lovely and informative video, but one glaring omission: You state early in the video the concern that a battery pack would need replacement, although significant statistical evidence shows that current Tesla batteries will likely have over a 300,000 mile life before being reduced to about 80% capacity, which still gives significant capability.
Whoops, came back from a long road trip and didn't catch the timeframe. Doesn't change my comment, though.
Great video! I love that when you get down to the details, the mechanical details of individual atoms are what determine how a battery performs. Its easy to think 'electricity' and think its just magic and electrons- instead of the very real diffusion and flow of ions (atoms) which have mass and volume!
Then also I like the dive into the engineering side of things. I can only speculate at Nissan's engineering development and testing program, but the fact they did not test over a range of temperatures is a fairly understandable mistake that seems incredibly obvious in hindsight. Its even possible individuals in the organization suspected temperature might have some impact, but the organization as a whole was not capable of foreseeing this or committing the necessary resources. Try setting up a test lab, then have some one tell you need to move all the equipment into a climate controlled chamber (which may or may not exist or be available to the group), while working under your typical deadlines and resource constraints. Something tells me the EV group would not have top priority at company primarily dedicated to ICE vehicles, unlike Tesla, whose entire product line is EV. However like I said, this is speculation at most, who knows what how the actual story went..
Aaah Just came to watch 27 seconds after upload
very cool
10 seconds #notificationsquad
3:50 Unfortunately you state incorrectly that the anode is positive and cathode is negative.
He is correct.
1:06 so the battery will cost exactly zero by 2024. ;)
Or 50? Not sure if the 50 is slightly above the time axis or at the same level.
Gotta check the source for this one anyway, seems blurry.
The really fun part should start after that, when they start paying you to take them away...
haha Someone else noticed. 2027 though going by the BS Y scale on the graph. It's one of the traits of how to spot a snake-oil salesman. Extrapolation of any data is BS. Creating a graph scale to make extrapolation appear linear is even worse.
Mr Fusion uses Garbage .
@@DiscoFang It's a logarithmic scale which is intentionally used to display data that behaves in a logarithmic manner in a linear way. This is quite common in engineering and science. It will also never be exactly zero when extrapolated, only infinitesimal small. There is no zero on the vertical axis. Off course, extrapolations are only meaningful for small ranges.
By weight, Tesla Batteries are Nickel & Graphite with some small metallic seasonings (lithium, cobalt, etc.). Electric car's motors operate on 200-350 VDC, Super capacitors are 2.5 V to ~ 3V. Just stack 100 of them in series to get 300 V, but now you only have 1/100th the capacitance. Solvable, but not easily. Tesla bought Maxwell for the Dry coat battery tech.
half way into this and the layer formed by the electrolyte that gets denser over time is the same in lithium batteries and an easy quick solution is to use a 12 volt battery car charger with 200 amps to shock the layer and break down that wall. been used for years to recover crap lithium batteries.. all you would need to do is schedule a maintenance appointment at dealership where they do this under controlled conditions or simply replace the battery pack with a renewed one .. only replacement labor is needed or down time versus 7K replacement
tbh, if it wasn't for the price, everybody would own a Tesla
(in my humble opinion)
I fully agree everyone should have electric vehicles. But there are problems currently, it would defeat the whole purpose of buying electric vehicles if the fuel source, (electricity) came from fossil fuels. If the world was powered by nuclear or renewable energy, then that would greatly minimized greenhouse gas produced by transportation.
@@GamingWithNikolas blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-data-show-electric-vehicles-continue-to-get-cleaner
"If it weren't for the price, everybody would own a ________" is true for pretty much anything you can put in the blank.
Not everybody, but they would probably take nearly all of the Civic/Camry/Focus/Golf market.
If they get down to 20k or under that could very well become reality.
@@GamingWithNikolas Not entirely - it takes less fossil fuel to be burnt per km for an EV over an ICE vehicle, so while not perfect there is still some benefit.
Teslas batteries have already been shown to last a long time. 200k+ miles. In fact it's arguable they maintain charge better than ice maintain MPG
electrek.co/2016/11/01/tesla-battery-degradation/
Well they still have hits and misses, IF none of the cells in your pack goes out early then you have the possibility of 20 years plus, but a good deal of them had to be exchanged under warranty because in the giant mass of cells they make some of them will underperform and fail long before their full span.
Teslas doesn't make batteries they buy them . Tesla didn't invent the battery.
@@zoultronzoultron9723 it doesn't matter where they came from, at this point they're the best
@@bob15479 that doesn't even make since. You can go to lowes or home depot and buy a lithium battery
You said: “a positive electrode, the anode and a negative electrode, the cathode”. Guess this ought to be the other way around, no?
Mostly reffered to a cathode and a anode, positive plate and negative plate. Transistors use a collector and a emitter and they have another connection that turns on and off the flow of electrons a gate. Today's battery's don't have gates but by using semiconductor technology in battery manufacturing this could build a better battery by controlling electron flow, and plate voltages and even stopping corrosion and inoization saturation of plate conductors. When I am given a job then I can build it!🤔
Cathode is negative (-) since electrons carry a negative charge. Remember the old school television sets with a CRT (cathode ray tube) shooting electrons to the screen? The diagram is wrong.
@@1959Berre And you are surprised?
Electrode can't be positive, electrode is negative and cathode is positive.
@@vinnovation447 Anode and cathode are both electrodes. One of them is negatively charged and the other, positively.
Latest battery science >A 5 micron metal filter mesh stops the lithium dendrites from shorting out the battery the battery will last up to 20 years two different companies are focused on selling to interested clients .posted this on feb 26 2020
My assumption was for much higher price than 150$/1knH.
It is also amazing that Maxwell is working on capacitors. Mazda is already using small capacitors (iELOOP), but only for few models and not all engines. This would be a great reliable alternative/addition to batteries.