i think that dutch people feel like the turkish and moroccan people take too much of their own culture and believes to the netherlands instead of the foreigners trying to properly intergrate in dutch society ? like older turkish and moroccan people can't/don't speak dutch. plus the dutch people might feel that the turkish and moroccan people take islam into the netherlands with all the rises of mosks. and that may feel frightening to dutch people.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 don't get me wrong here. I've lived in a suburb in the Netherlands where all kinds of foreigners live and nothing wrong there. But I also saw the differences in reaction to their influence by Dutch people. And tried to only emphasize what I've seen and experienced. I've lived in the USA and I integrated to American society, and spoke the American language, culture etc.. Even in the USA I felt discriminated at times for being a foreigner. Everyone wants to be accepted.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Let me phrase this politically correct: It's toxic masculinity. Partriarchal macho cultures tend to be anti-intellectual, of course the illiterate background of the first arrivals doesn't help, but neither does the current culture. Only a part of Moroccan and Turkeys kids manage to escape this. Many boys are brought up not to accept authority from a female teacher or even a male non-muslim teacher. Their peers don't respect school performance, they are allowed to hang out on the street late at night by their parents instead of homework and get enough sleep. Mischief to the point it gets a police matter doesn't help doing well in school either. As group, a statistic, they're lagging behind on language of course because their parents never made the effort. Also they don't do what Dutch kids from rural area's do, learn neat Dutch besides their own dialect and and accent. Those kids know how to switch or otherwise would have difficulty getting a job in the big cities, for the better jobs you have to master the common language which is accent low proper neat Dutch (ABN) and for 'peasants' form the East the bar already is much higher than for Moroccans and Turks, but the peasants who do move clear that bar and many of the muslim kids don't. You can't expect to do well in Dutch schools if you don't share the Dutch learning culture. It' can't be a surprise that those kids dont''t do as well on average. It can't be a surprise that the muslim girls are doing much better than the boys. It might be a surprise that the muslim kids from Iran are doing great in school, better than the indigionous kids. But that's a different kind of islam, Iran doesn't have such a toxic masculine culture and they bring their Iranian intellectual culture and learning culture. And let's not forget the pair of elephants in the room and be politically incorrect. Islam tends be anti-intellectual and dumb down people. It's culture that breeds smart kids, The Netherlands have a more than 500 year old culture of literacy and study, my grandpy had a little libraray at home, their grandpa was illiterate. That's not something that gets automatically compensated within one generation. The second is that many of those parents are first cousins. The family arranges a marriage so the first cousin from a rural village in Turkey or Morocco can get Dutch citizenship and live here but the inbreeding goes back generations. That not only brings health problems in the kids, it also doesn't help average IQ. Of course you want to blame the Dutch, but 'Dutch racists' tend to want the Moroccans and Turks to escape their culture and become successfull and relatively Dutch and are frustrated it doesn't work while an American racist doesn't like a non white immigrant to be highly educated and succeed.
Perhaps it would be great to ask a person from a Dutch-Maroccan or -Turkish background to come and do a part 2 perhaps with their view point on this topic. My view point is native Dutch, and reflects some biast that I have. I overused words we and them sadly.. This is a grosly oversymplefied version of the cutent situation and can not do it justice. I want to distance myself from rightwing retoric but explained where some of those fears came from. So a different perspective is perhaps realy helpfull in this discussion😃
Hey Dirk.. Morocco has normalized relations with Israel.. you can without any problem show David's Star or Kippa in Morocco than a country like Germany! I think those are just childish conflicts between communities (like everywhere i guess) so sorry to tell u that u're really wrong about the relation
@@midaka5925 you are right that gouvernements have normalised relationships as most countries have. What I see as the problem is that most people are ambivalent to these issues. Like the fate of the Balochi, Nagorno-Karabach, Kurdistan, the Rohingya, Native Americans etc. The Israel-Palestine conflict is a bit more present. And so people see it as either childish or very passionate about it. Being pro one side and against the other. As a teacher I have met a lot of people with that passion, knowing little to nothing about at, but still deny the others existence. That does wory me. So I try to teach them respect and that people who ignore history tend to repeat it.
Reminds me of a young woman I knew in (1992-1993) Tottenham College, London. She was of Surinamese parentage originally from Biljmer, Amsterdam communicating to her she claim, from her own personal experiences, that the Dutch liberal tolerant attitudes regarding to ethnic minorities was a huge facade. A work colleague of mine, Edo-Nigerian lived in De Pijp, Amsterdam (1997-2013) he said to me what he personally observed that Moroccoan and Turkish second and third generationers are seen as a problematic, especially the young men by a large segment of the Dutch society.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 What I think about it is very limited as I have no experienced living residential in the country. But my perception of the Netherlands, with many people of British people, that is a highly liberal tolerant country regardless abortion, euthanasia, gender equity, marriage equality, marijuana, pornography, prostitution.
Moroccans are one of the most aggressive ethnic group in the Netherlands. Moroccan and Turkish people often do illegal business in the Netherlands. I live here.
11:34 hahahhah soo freaking funnyy and racist, being poor and having no water and electricity is so funny 23:06 noo just stop right there that's soo wrong many dutch people are working in Islamic schools, or let's flip around when u got canceled because of wearing hijab from normal schools in NL 33:02 wait a dammn minute lol, are u aware that u r talking about people that just as like you ( willing to have a better future), who choose to immigrate to another country because of some economic problems in their own countries that's it, don't take it to any damn level, and of course, that's doesn't mean they have to stop being muslims or Arabs. Thank you that was a great video, and you were so honest and open-minded
as a turkish ı thank to you coz of you shared this information to us.ı was planıng to move netherland coz of my wıfe s postdoc but after watchıng thıs vıdeo ı really dont want to go there and go amerıca.ı really want to try my best for thıs open mınded commınıty (usa)ınstead of europe
Tragically, racism is everywhere. I think It’s important that it’s pointed out and we speak up against it, in hopes it will change. I don’t want my video to scare anyone, I just want people to be aware that racism is in the Netherlands and it needs to stop. I hope your wife enjoys her post doc position and that you feel free to come with her.
Hello, i want to adress a few things, because i notice that there are some of the most important things left out on this topic, the reason why there is so much segregation in the netherlands is because the goverment made sure that minority groups like the turks and moroccans get the lowest education, which basically means you dont get acces to the higher education, and if there is a moroccan or turks in the higher education program it is mainly because the parents have a higher social status, example having a lot of money. and this one is the main reasons why the moroccans and turks cant integrate. Dutch high school system is divided into 6 levels i will put the levels here from low to high. (praktijk) then you have VMBO this is where 3 levels of education resides which are called vmbo Basis: vmbo kader: vmbo theoretisch: Then you have: Havo: which is 1 level under university, and last: VWO which gives you acces to universities, And what basically happens in the netherlands is they put children whom are under 13 years old under 1 of those categories, And what most likely happens is that the turks and the moroccans are put in the lowest categories, the majority of the minorities go to the VMBO category, and the native dutch go into the higher end category, which brings tensions towards the native dutch because of the way they trow the majority of the moroccans and turks into these lower education, based on these so called ADHD, ADD symptomes to justify their racism. that is the reality here in the netherlands. There is also prove that native dutch have 15 times more chance to get into higher education then moroccans and turkish.
I don’t know what I think about the different levels in Dutch schools. I think the levels have promise, but it’s not executed as good as it could be. I do think this leads to a lot of issues for young people in general, let alone when there is discrimination.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 ehm i dont think this has any promise whatsoever, because those levels of education have led to miseducating minorities for over 3 generations, which translate into no chance to get into society especially these days where you need atleast some education to get an job, for instance did you know that just 2/10 of minoritys get the change to learn math and other skills that are needed for higher education which leads 8/10 without a real chance to integrate into society especially these days where they ask a certain level of education, so what happens the so called ghettos stay ghettos, and this was made on design because why would you educate a people if they will go away after a few seasons anyway,
It's not a matter of chance, but a matter of school performance and the Moroccans, Turks, Antillians and Subsaharan Africans are not performing well on average while the Surinamese are doing much better, the Afghans and Chinese are doing great and the Iranians are outperforming everybody. Obviously it's about the culture they take from home. So that's up to the family and their cultural surroundings, government can't compensate for that. Levels have already dropped to accomodate the immigrant kids. What can be done is to put the selection moment later in the school career. This would not only leave more time to compensate for the language defecit, there might also be a problem with lots of the immigrant kids hitting puberty earlier, and puberty isn't good for school performance usually. So the kids who hit puberty at 12 have a disadvantage.
@@DenUitvreter This is rather a matter of not only chance but race aswell. If you are a non westerner you have a 15 times less chance to get into higher education then white dutch/ dutch colonized groups, like the indonesians and the surinamers, and the reason why iranians and afghanistans are doing better is because these 2 groups are so small that it is not a problem for the white power structure to allow these groups into the higher education system because of the low volume of non white migrants, while the bigger groups, that are being hated by the dutch get somehow 15 times less chance to get into higher education. The performance is dictated not by race but by which school you go, for instance if you go to a good school the performance rate will be way higher then when you go to a bad school. so to just say it is because of the bad performance of these groups is just a deflection to justify white supremacy that is here in the netherlands.
They are not discriminated at all,that's bullshit.But don't force your habits on us natives,this is Holland.If you wanna be part of The Netherlands and live here and benefit you have to adjust
The fact Wilders said, “The - often immigrant - scum are destroying our country,” supports there is some discrimination happening. I found this in politico www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/faq-need-to-know-netherlands-dutch-riots-covid-curfew/amp/
@@knowingthenetherlands662 I don't care what anybody says,from the late sixties I've seen the so-called "immigration"from (mostly)Islam countries and Africans.These people don't want assimilate here,most of them want free money and healthcare and get rid of Dutch culture like Zwarte Piet and Christian traditions.If they are discriminated against they owe it to themselves with their behaviour,the rest is bullshit...complaining complaining how terrible the Dutch are,I've seen it all!
What do you mean THEY are not discriminated? Why did Geert Wilders say: dat ze hun vaste baan moeten inleveren voor een flexibele baan. The youger generation from Moroccan, Turkish, Middle Eastern, West African, South American background can´t find a job easily, even finding a part-time job is hard, especially in smaller towns, there is descrimination. We get racist comments and then people will say it was just a joke.
@@BlueSky-hj5fm I am very bothered by the "it's just a joke" comment after saying something racist as if saying it was just a joke makes it okay to make racist remarks.
Turkish people discriminated? I doubt that. I was born and raised in The Netherlands and like many of "my people" I was NEVER discriminated. Maybe there is some discrimination like everywhere, but that's not worth mentioning.
As a Turk, I've actually never felt discriminated in the NL. There are very rare situations, but it is coming from pretty much everybody, Moroccans, Blacks, White Dutch people (or "natives" as Americans like to call). Tourists mostly. Nederturken: those Turks who came to the NL in 1950s are also quite stranger to me. They've never experienced secularism in Turkey and most of these people left Turkey because they were poor, but make no mistake, religion was also a big factor. When they were fleeing Turkey, the women were not even allowed to cover their head in public institutions. So, it's understandable they isolated themselves and the Dutch (also the German) were ok with that. But times have changed. In the NL there isn't any kind of discrimination against Turks. I can't speak about the Moroccan side, some people think just because we're both muslims, we must be same and should be mentioned together in every sentence, but in reality Turks are closer to Italian than they are to Moroccans. I think in the NL Americans should also be worried a little bit about being discriminated. The situation might be worse for them. Being white won't be enough, this is not racism, this is nationalism.
Am Moroccan, and I remember a Dutch store owner was discriminating me when I went to buy cigarettes from him saying that I should go home, even though am not an immigrant am there for vacation, so I knocked him out to the shadow realm for raising his voice at me
I have to correct the story of the repatriants from the Dutch Indies after it got its independence. It were actually Dutch citizens flying from a life threatening situation after the Second World War with the independence movement : the Bersiap tijd. The. Molukkers are some what different : they were a part of the Royal Dutch Indian Army and were by order brought to the Netherlands and then were dismissed.
You are absolutly right. I tried to explain in as short as possible way without getting into 400 years of Indonesian-Dutch involvement and 4 years of war for Indonesian indipendence. So thanks for the short explaination!
Beginning in the Seventies there were people, mostly left-wing and socialist organisations, who at least were warning for the imminent problems between the "gastarbeiders" and the Dutch workers. I know because I was then active with the Stichting Ontwikkelings Samenwerking Vakbeweging ( Foundation Development Coöperation Union) from FNV and CNV . This landed however not that much and it got worse in time. Solutions were given that are valid stil, but with time harder to implement as : more economic development in the home countries and equal payment for the immigrant workers. Do not expect for fully returning of the immigrant worker but set up special education. Do not allow to alienate the natives and immigrants by show them as compettetors but forder solidarity and understanding. The last however was a problem because of the, sometimes deliberate forming of an in-groupe; easy in the Netherlands because the infrastructure was already there. The Netherlands were just freed from the most petty social construction of all times: "de verzuiling" (pillars) You see the remnants of this in the name of the Foundation above: FNV is from the Socialist Union and Catholic Union and CNV is from the Protestant Union. For instance it was pretty easy to make Islamic schools next to catholic and protestant schools because of the "pacificatie"van 1917. In the Seventies there was already a strong grip of Turkish nationalists on part of the Turkish Dutch in the form of cells of the Grijze Wolven operating in a big city as Utrecht. The way that Erdokan speaks about Turkish emigrants is not helping in integrating Turks in the Dutch society and the way the Moroccan government is behaving either. Now, fifty years later there are populists who are harvesting the resentment of a big part of the Dutch that have not the open mind to see the person that is his neighbour but only the foreigner that is his contestant. I thought you were trying to get an education for helping sexual abused people. That means some knowledge about psychology and even psychiatry I think. I have not so much knowledge in these fields, but sometimes I see people who identify themselves with a special group very strongly. If this the case they can be manipulated very easy: in is good, out is bad.
Thank you for sharing more historical information about the situation and some of the ways this issue could be fixed. As for what I am studying, I am researching how psychoeduction for adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse might help them with healing. I am focused on the individual healing process, not on the larger social scale issue, that is a different area of study. Additionally, my question about the development of the discrimination in the Netherlands towards Moroccan and Turkish people is very specific to the Netherlands and is not related to my area of study at all. I could have made generalized statements about the development of discrimination everywhere, but without the help of people who know more about the history of the Netherlands, I would not understand the specific environment that aided in this development.
There are a few causes: 1) They were brought here as "guest laborers". So, guests go away after the party. They did not and were not supposed to. That is not the fault of Turks or Moroccans, but of the Dutch government lying. Why were they lying? Because contrary to the United States, European culture and countries are earth bound. The country belongs to the "tribe" who occupies it. That comes with a culture. Moroccan and Turkish culture is muslim, the Dutch culture is Christian western. That gives tensions, f.e. in relation to the place of women, the place of relgion and nationalism in politics and more. So, I am NOT saying one culture is better than another, but only that it breeds deep rifts. Deep rifts come with lack of communication. And there you have it. I expect it to get better with every generation. I hope this will not be an issue anymore in 100 years.
I also hope that these types of issues will one day not exist, but I think that would mean there was world peace. Unfortunately, world peace doesn't seem like it will happen anytime. Why is it contrary to the United states?
there is also the problem that Turkey and Morocco try to bring the Islamic rules in the Netherlands, and don't expect things that is normal in the western world(female rights, freedom of opinion). I have study and work with people from both for years, and even then it is hard to always find the difference. but also the governments from both counties keep a tight grip on the people that live here, even if there are born in Netherland there have to go back to there parents country because there seen by turkey en Morocco as here people as well. And get judge they on something here have say badly about they county. and men have to go back to there country to get army training there when they turn 18, even that they born in Netherland. and because the younger generation will not come in contact with other people and cultures until they much older (+13). Because of the close cycle there grown up in, they will get in trouble because there don't know "better". and there was in the past and still go a lot of money to Morocco from Netherland to people that did not earn this.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 because that is what the government from turkey and Morocco require from them, as there see the children and grandchildren from there countries that live in other countries still as there subjects. And have to follow there rules of country. If there don’t do it there can end in jail
@@knowingthenetherlands662 He/she is bullshitting, even people who were born in Morocco don´t have to get army training. And I am saying this as a Moroccan. I don´t know about Turkey, but Moroccans don´t get a tight grip from the government, even if they were born there. The Moroccan government ain´t giving a f*** about people who love the coutry, were born, raised and live there , and you think they care about the people who left the country? And about the Islam, it´s not true, there are Jewish people in Morocco, nobody bothers them. Also a lot of people in the Netherlands can´t see the culture and religion as two seperated things. They say that they are open-minded, why would y´all not open your eyes and see the facts, and instead of thinking that you are the only person who is right, try to understand why other people think that they are right. I promise that there is a reason behind everything.
Wow I've never read so much bs in one comment. By the way you should get some English lessons. Cause you moet wel verstaanbaar zijn for everybody you know. I for one disagree with this load of bs.
I mean, Moroccan Arab society suppresses the native Berber population and Turks don't have a very favorable opinion of Kurds and Syrians. Not really unique to the Netherlands.
Hi you, I think it has to do with the jonger generation of those two. I think a lot of jong folks are more likely to get in trouble. I know a few Turkish guys and those are one of my best friend so I think its not all of them. The older generation of them are really hard workers and have made a big difference in the culture of the Netherlands. I'm not agenst them but I am agenst filance. Who ever does it. When your a nice person I'm more likely to like you whoever you are. Keep this nice videos coming tho I really love them. Keep it up girl
Thank you, Lars! I think youngsters everywhere are pretty reckless. They are growing up and trying to figure things out. Guidance and support are so important.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 i completely agree with you on that one. Saying this makes me feel old tho but that's ok😅 i was a jong guy myself one day and I'm very the way I'm raised but I also know a lot of youngsters have a different and maybe not preticular better way they get raised. I think good and also bad people are everywhere and it doesn't matter what color you have or the way you look, everyone is the same from the inside and its partly your choice to make the best of it(and partly your parents ofcourse)
Sure. The questions would be why do they turn to those things? Most likely Bcs they are not being treated equally even though they usually are second and third generation and they consider this their only home. Discrimination doesn't allow for many oppertunities even when educated so they rebel.
@@princessrachida8092 the first and second generation maybe got discriminated but the third(and rest) not anymore. It is mostly by the way they are raised, they think they can do everything, then when they get caught they say the cops are racists. That is the big problem. They don't get discriminated, but they still use it when they think it is necessary (that is also what my Turkish friends say) they just use it as a tool.
@@larsmeijerink5471 wow. Are we going to deny the obvious facts? The numbers clearly show that having a different racial background in the netherlands means you are multiple time more likely to get convicted than someone who is a (white) dutch person. This is the Reality many of us lived and still live and many like you deny bcs you are priviliged. Get your head out of the sand bcs im second gen. First gen born here and the racism increases and is not like you are saying decreasing.
I worked with Turkish people for 20 years, they are just people, nothing wrong with them..., not sure they are really discriminated here, I sure don't, this is not Trumpghanistan you know, people that act normal, and don't bother others, are treated normal here..
I have heard quite a few people state they don't like Moroccan and Turkish people and they would like them to leave the Netherlands. That's the polite version.
Im a kurdish girl ( turkey ) and i want to marry a dutch man. We always see turkish/ kurdish men with european woman but rarely the opposite. Kurdish/ turkish men treat european women like Queens but their own women like sh*t. At least Dutch men will know our value!!
No part two? (About the problems the next generations had adjusting - for living in two cultures?) But nice one! Not just because of the kitties. And just found out you can ask Michiel to make a commercial for your channel. (Unless he only does pudding... Hahahahahahahahaha)
@@knowingthenetherlands662 It was. And teens wil be teens, but them having to manoeuvre between two standards and getting angry is what made things worse. Don't know if there's a second video in that.
From this interview, we understand the difference between European and American perspectives. Since America does not have a nation-state-based history and America is a country of immigrants, there is a more accepting society structure. but holland was not founded by immigrants immigrants came later and the netherlands is a dutch nation state
It would be more logical not to expect societies with different value chains to get along very, very well. Despite this, I think that foreign minorities living in the Netherlands and other European countries have adapted as well as possible to the society they live in. Come on, don't expect you to have a moroccan man just like a Dutchman, my dear.If they can live side by side without fighting, that should be enough. Anything more is a bit of an exaggeration.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Most are from what I see in voting polls and protests. They go to other countries and want Erdogan's policies implemented in that country. I live in Australia myself and I don't bring my crap here as a Turk. Australia is not a Ottoman Empire province. I am not religious (I don't believe in wizards and centaurs) so that might have something to do with it too.
It same like US and Mexico and Afro- Americans. It it all great or bad? It's just the state of mind of the person. Some Americans doesn't like this immigration and want much greater wall, while at canada side there is less. But not all Americans think like that and see opportunity instead of disaster. So every country has this kind of retoric. It's Optimistic vs. Pessimism. By the way...I like your cat
I agree. It’s important to talk about regardless. It shouldn’t be acceptable to discriminate against other people. Tubby appreciates the good vibes and sends some your way, but covered in fur.
I wan’t to move to The Netherlands soon from Canada, and i’m learning dutch before i go there. I heard that Turks don’t assimilate themselves to dutch community which is bad, because you’re in the Netherlands, so you have to blend in.
I personally have not seen or heard about this level of discrimination towards Indonesians from Dutchies. People have openly told me that Moroccans and Turkish people deserve to be discriminated against because they are ruining the Netherlands. Discrimination of other cultures is in the Netherlands, I was just focused on this openly discussed and, for some people, acceptable form of discrimination. Could you please share more about the discrimination towards Indonesians?
And also on the topic why did they stay thats because a lott of maroccan had kids in holland whi grew up in holland rhats one of the reason that they did not go back
You should NEVER call the Netherlands "Holland" we are NOT all Amsterdammers.. the civilized parts of the country do not like being called after Amsterdam.
I think this is an issue within the Netherlands that should be discussed amongst Dutch citizens and then shared with the world. Since foreigners get mixed signals from the Dutch it should be expected that foreigners will call the Netherlands "Holland" and that Dutch citizens should not take it out on foreigners.
As a moroccan myself ( speak amazigh and arabic) and of course muslim! I experienced so much racism and hate from them because of my religion and questions like oh why you dont eat pork why you dont drink alcohol.
@@googleaccount7977 exactly… why people do this ? Curiosity is racism now. I’m gonna say this, Dutch people are very open-minded and usually well-educated. And if there are things, that bother them, it is not without any reason… i also live here, but I am from Poland.
@@livias.2972 Oh! Should it BOTHER u when someone doesn't drink milk or don't eat honey????? Typical polish comment! But don't worry in the REAL WEST even in Germany try to be European through soreading hate against Muslims.. Calma bro! Most of your neighboors, esprcially Germans see u as a poor, uncivilized car-thief coz Others could see ya as an unt3rmen$ch coz of ur slavic descendant... u should't feel protected from racism
@@midaka5925 wtf do you even know about Poland? And more important: why do you judge me so quickly? You have no idea about me, all i can see is anger and hate from you. You’re calling me racist by being racist to me. Wanna compare Poland to Germany? You’re so funny. Educate yourself, read some history, otherwise our conversation in this topic doesn’t make any sense. Actually, I don’t even want to talk to someone like you. Your hate and anger will get you soon because you can’t put it on others forever. That’s all for me.
Because they do 5-6 times better at negative statistics like crime, education(in a bad way i mean) and welfare (not working/participating). Many negative behaviors are there and make people feel bad and unsafe and don't even make it to the statistics. So discrimination is very bad... no one should be judged before you know them offcourse. Some people just get that way since they experienced bad things or know the chance is more likely with this group. If many people with freckles for example will score mouch higher on negative aspects some people will become judgemental towards people with freckles. I had some negative experience myself aswell with younsters unprovoked, same for my sisters. In the meantime 2 of my best friends are Turkish, but they are living in Turkey and are awesome.
@@RLjumpers I don't know what you mean... One problem i would say many come from families with a lower income, which brings difficulties. I come from a family with 5 children and only my dad worked with an avarage salary and still we all studied and have good jobs now. In the netherlands everyone can go to the same quality school and university (and university for 2000 euro per year, which you can borrow for 0% interest from gouvernment). If you dont go on the streets and do criminal stuff with your buddies you won't get a criminal record... The Netherlands is one of the most equal and richest countries in the world. The poorest people in the Netherlands have great lives and oppertunities compared to people all over the world, especially turkey or Marocco. So i really don't understand what you mean seeing the situation in this perspective...? pls explain.
@@RLjumpers Oh and thank you for reporting my 1st comment which said nothing out of line, racist, judgemental or bad... i can give you the stats by the dutch gouvernment if you like. You might not like that or agree with it but no reason to think it should be gone. Thats how dictators work... and if you ignore some sensitive issues the problems don't go away.
@@Peasmans stats are a consequence of something can you even think further than just conclusion? Where I grew up there was 0 dutch kids, the government dropped all of us in 1 dirty corner and then expected to come back after 20 years and look at fully integrated adults. I know people that went from basis to gymnasium and the other way around in 2 years, that should tell you the system doesn't work.
@@RLjumpers Well... the netherlands is a very rich country with equal (as it can get) oppertunities for all people. If you can't make it overhere you cant make it anywhere. Compare your life now with the avarage turkish or Maroocan guy in Turkey or Marrocco. You had better oppertunities, you have more wealth, better healthcare and more freedom. And some strict parenthood could definetly help too with positive motivation developing in a positive way. But sure... from a neighbourhood like that, hanging arround outside on the streets with similar kids chances are much lower in developing in a positive way... and once a criminal record it gets worse many times and some jobs get out of reach. But just saying it fault of the system and there is no responsibility for individuals and parents is a bit too easy for me... especially in a social country like the Netherlands.
I have no idea about Moroccans but i do know the situation for Turks. First, you should know that Turkey is extremely divided. Western part (where i live) is just like Europe, extremely relaxed about religion-no one actually cares what you believe in. Central and eastern parts are where conservative people live mostly but just religious, like a conservative Christian. And the 1st generation of Turkish workers were conservative people who were not even capable of read or write in Turkish. But as i said, religion is not compulsory/forcément in Turkish culture. I mean i have a homosexual friend whose mother wears hijab. Or you can still wear or drink what you want while considering yourself as muslim. A reflect of secularism and religious diversity of Turkey. So better to educate younger generations of Dutch Turks, majority wont have any trouble to adopt into Dutch society. Their background is compatible. Dont be biased just bc how uneducated and uncouth their parents/grandparents were
ne dersen de sen onların gözünde türksün ama dutch lar zaten genel eğitimliler , insanlara zarar vermedğin sürece çok sallamazlar nereli olduğunu diğer avrupa ülkelerine göre , dutch lar iyidir
There are some parts missing, as @Dirk has pointed out. The issue can be understood fully if one comes to understand those immigrants's mentality in the first place at that time. They obviously didn't mean anything intentional, it was them expressing themselves. As it is known, most of them came from rural areas in Morocco, with zero education. What I am trying to allude to is what is called in philosophy the historical epistemological break, to mean projecting certain forms of episteme onto other periods of history where those forms of episteme didn't exist. All in all, what I got from this video was what I always saw and believed; the nobility of the American perspective, and the acceptance they have towards other people. God bless the founding fathers!
Again i dont want to sound racist, but i did have problems when i whas younger. i whas beaten by 7 turkys on school just becous the wandet to do that . And 1 time i whas beaten Just becous i ask the way by 3 turkys . So togeter i have been 2 months in the hospitaal for it . And No im not a racist but i am prejudiced
That is what Hitler said to the jews. They don't belong here. We all know the result, look at history. Don't try to play god or imitate these Nazi-guys... Mister Nostro, if you don't have knowledge about your own country.
It is advantageous that the Dutch learn multiple languages to help with trading as English is the universal language. People who want to reside in the Netherlands indefinitely should learn Dutch. Unfortunately for most people, even temporary workers in the Netherlands, learning a language that only 3.4% of the world population uses is not advantageous enough to learn. Additionally, there are parts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands that have English and Papiamento as official languages, so it would be good if the whole Kingdom would accommodate their own citizen.
i think that dutch people feel like the turkish and moroccan people take too much of their own culture and believes to the netherlands instead of the foreigners trying to properly intergrate in dutch society ? like older turkish and moroccan people can't/don't speak dutch. plus the dutch people might feel that the turkish and moroccan people take islam into the netherlands with all the rises of mosks. and that may feel frightening to dutch people.
Do you think this is an appropriate reaction?
@@knowingthenetherlands662 don't get me wrong here. I've lived in a suburb in the Netherlands where all kinds of foreigners live and nothing wrong there. But I also saw the differences in reaction to their influence by Dutch people. And tried to only emphasize what I've seen and experienced. I've lived in the USA and I integrated to American society, and spoke the American language, culture etc.. Even in the USA I felt discriminated at times for being a foreigner. Everyone wants to be accepted.
So sorry to hear you experienced discrimination in the US. What happened?
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Let me phrase this politically correct: It's toxic masculinity. Partriarchal macho cultures tend to be anti-intellectual, of course the illiterate background of the first arrivals doesn't help, but neither does the current culture. Only a part of Moroccan and Turkeys kids manage to escape this. Many boys are brought up not to accept authority from a female teacher or even a male non-muslim teacher. Their peers don't respect school performance, they are allowed to hang out on the street late at night by their parents instead of homework and get enough sleep. Mischief to the point it gets a police matter doesn't help doing well in school either.
As group, a statistic, they're lagging behind on language of course because their parents never made the effort. Also they don't do what Dutch kids from rural area's do, learn neat Dutch besides their own dialect and and accent. Those kids know how to switch or otherwise would have difficulty getting a job in the big cities, for the better jobs you have to master the common language which is accent low proper neat Dutch (ABN) and for 'peasants' form the East the bar already is much higher than for Moroccans and Turks, but the peasants who do move clear that bar and many of the muslim kids don't.
You can't expect to do well in Dutch schools if you don't share the Dutch learning culture. It' can't be a surprise that those kids dont''t do as well on average. It can't be a surprise that the muslim girls are doing much better than the boys. It might be a surprise that the muslim kids from Iran are doing great in school, better than the indigionous kids. But that's a different kind of islam, Iran doesn't have such a toxic masculine culture and they bring their Iranian intellectual culture and learning culture.
And let's not forget the pair of elephants in the room and be politically incorrect. Islam tends be anti-intellectual and dumb down people. It's culture that breeds smart kids, The Netherlands have a more than 500 year old culture of literacy and study, my grandpy had a little libraray at home, their grandpa was illiterate. That's not something that gets automatically compensated within one generation. The second is that many of those parents are first cousins. The family arranges a marriage so the first cousin from a rural village in Turkey or Morocco can get Dutch citizenship and live here but the inbreeding goes back generations. That not only brings health problems in the kids, it also doesn't help average IQ.
Of course you want to blame the Dutch, but 'Dutch racists' tend to want the Moroccans and Turks to escape their culture and become successfull and relatively Dutch and are frustrated it doesn't work while an American racist doesn't like a non white immigrant to be highly educated and succeed.
What is the problème with islam?
Perhaps it would be great to ask a person from a Dutch-Maroccan or -Turkish background to come and do a part 2 perhaps with their view point on this topic. My view point is native Dutch, and reflects some biast that I have. I overused words we and them sadly.. This is a grosly oversymplefied version of the cutent situation and can not do it justice. I want to distance myself from rightwing retoric but explained where some of those fears came from. So a different perspective is perhaps realy helpfull in this discussion😃
I agree. I need to make more friends.
@@knowingthenetherlands662
You won't with that punk style
Hey Dirk.. Morocco has normalized relations with Israel.. you can without any problem show David's Star or Kippa in Morocco than a country like Germany!
I think those are just childish conflicts between communities (like everywhere i guess) so sorry to tell u that u're really wrong about the relation
@@midaka5925 you are right that gouvernements have normalised relationships as most countries have. What I see as the problem is that most people are ambivalent to these issues. Like the fate of the Balochi, Nagorno-Karabach, Kurdistan, the Rohingya, Native Americans etc. The Israel-Palestine conflict is a bit more present. And so people see it as either childish or very passionate about it. Being pro one side and against the other. As a teacher I have met a lot of people with that passion, knowing little to nothing about at, but still deny the others existence. That does wory me. So I try to teach them respect and that people who ignore history tend to repeat it.
Reminds me of a young woman I knew in (1992-1993) Tottenham College, London. She was of Surinamese parentage originally from Biljmer, Amsterdam communicating to her she claim, from her own personal experiences, that the Dutch liberal tolerant attitudes regarding to ethnic minorities was a huge facade. A work colleague of mine, Edo-Nigerian lived in De Pijp, Amsterdam (1997-2013) he said to me what he personally observed that Moroccoan and Turkish second and third generationers are seen as a problematic, especially the young men by a large segment of the Dutch society.
What do you think about this?
@@knowingthenetherlands662 What I think about it is very limited as I have no experienced living residential in the country. But my perception of the Netherlands, with many people of British people, that is a highly liberal tolerant country regardless abortion, euthanasia, gender equity, marriage equality, marijuana, pornography, prostitution.
Moroccans are one of the most aggressive ethnic group in the Netherlands. Moroccan and Turkish people often do illegal business in the Netherlands. I live here.
@@livias.2972 polish people slso aee known to be thieves.. they explose banjautomats and are worldwide known for the robbery (cars from Germany, etc.)
Most of the Dutch-Moroccan peoples are of mainly of Irifiyen/Rifian (Amizagh) descent. Turkish immigrants mainly from the Afyonkarahisar province.
11:34 hahahhah soo freaking funnyy and racist, being poor and having no water and electricity is so funny
23:06 noo just stop right there that's soo wrong many dutch people are working in Islamic schools, or let's flip around when u got canceled because of wearing hijab from normal schools in NL
33:02 wait a dammn minute lol, are u aware that u r talking about people that just as like you ( willing to have a better future), who choose to immigrate to another country because of some economic problems in their own countries that's it, don't take it to any damn level, and of course, that's doesn't mean they have to stop being muslims or Arabs.
Thank you that was a great video, and you were so honest and open-minded
Idk but da guy his racial hatred expressing towards moroccan
as a turkish ı thank to you coz of you shared this information to us.ı was planıng to move netherland coz of my wıfe s postdoc but after watchıng thıs vıdeo ı really dont want to go there and go amerıca.ı really want to try my best for thıs open mınded commınıty (usa)ınstead of europe
Tragically, racism is everywhere. I think It’s important that it’s pointed out and we speak up against it, in hopes it will change. I don’t want my video to scare anyone, I just want people to be aware that racism is in the Netherlands and it needs to stop. I hope your wife enjoys her post doc position and that you feel free to come with her.
The main thing you should have in ur mind is that in the US have latinos as a "Feindbild".. in Europe they are Muslims
Hey! What a great interview. I really like that you go a little bit deeper than a regular expat in the Netherlands. Please continue. :)
Thank you! It’s important to me that I better understand all aspects of the culture here.
Hello, i want to adress a few things, because i notice that there are some of the most important things left out on this topic,
the reason why there is so much segregation in the netherlands is because the goverment made sure that minority groups like the turks and moroccans get the lowest education, which basically means you dont get acces to the higher education, and if there is a moroccan or turks in the higher education program it is mainly because the parents have a higher social status, example having a lot of money. and this one is the main reasons why the moroccans and turks cant integrate.
Dutch high school system is divided into 6 levels i will put the levels here from low to high.
(praktijk) then you have VMBO this is where 3 levels of education resides which are called vmbo Basis: vmbo kader: vmbo theoretisch:
Then you have: Havo: which is 1 level under university, and last: VWO which gives you acces to universities,
And what basically happens in the netherlands is they put children whom are under 13 years old under 1 of those categories,
And what most likely happens is that the turks and the moroccans are put in the lowest categories, the majority of the minorities go to the VMBO category,
and the native dutch go into the higher end category, which brings tensions towards the native dutch because of the way
they trow the majority of the moroccans and turks into these lower education, based on these so called ADHD, ADD symptomes to justify their racism.
that is the reality here in the netherlands.
There is also prove that native dutch have 15 times more chance to get into higher education then moroccans and turkish.
I don’t know what I think about the different levels in Dutch schools. I think the levels have promise, but it’s not executed as good as it could be. I do think this leads to a lot of issues for young people in general, let alone when there is discrimination.
maybe so in Amsterdam, not in the normal parts of the Netherlands..
@@knowingthenetherlands662 ehm i dont think this has any promise whatsoever, because those levels of education have led to miseducating minorities for over 3 generations, which translate into no chance to get into society especially these days where you need atleast some education to get an job, for instance did you know that just 2/10 of minoritys get the change to learn math and other skills that are needed for higher education which leads 8/10 without a real chance to integrate into society especially these days where they ask a certain level of education, so what happens the so called ghettos stay ghettos, and this was made on design because why would you educate a people if they will go away after a few seasons anyway,
It's not a matter of chance, but a matter of school performance and the Moroccans, Turks, Antillians and Subsaharan Africans are not performing well on average while the Surinamese are doing much better, the Afghans and Chinese are doing great and the Iranians are outperforming everybody.
Obviously it's about the culture they take from home. So that's up to the family and their cultural surroundings, government can't compensate for that. Levels have already dropped to accomodate the immigrant kids. What can be done is to put the selection moment later in the school career. This would not only leave more time to compensate for the language defecit, there might also be a problem with lots of the immigrant kids hitting puberty earlier, and puberty isn't good for school performance usually. So the kids who hit puberty at 12 have a disadvantage.
@@DenUitvreter This is rather a matter of not only chance but race aswell.
If you are a non westerner you have a 15 times less chance to get into higher education then white dutch/ dutch colonized groups, like the indonesians and the surinamers, and the reason why iranians and afghanistans are doing better is because these 2 groups are so small that it is not a problem for the white power structure to allow these groups into the higher education system because of the low volume of non white migrants,
while the bigger groups, that are being hated by the dutch get somehow 15 times less chance to get into higher education.
The performance is dictated not by race but by which school you go, for instance if you go to a good school the performance rate will be way higher then when you go to a bad school. so to just say it is because of the bad performance of these groups is just a deflection to justify white supremacy that is here in the netherlands.
They are not discriminated at all,that's bullshit.But don't force your habits on us natives,this is Holland.If you wanna be part of The Netherlands and live here and benefit you have to adjust
The fact Wilders said, “The - often immigrant - scum are destroying our country,” supports there is some discrimination happening. I found this in politico www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/faq-need-to-know-netherlands-dutch-riots-covid-curfew/amp/
@@knowingthenetherlands662 I don't care what anybody says,from the late sixties I've seen the so-called "immigration"from (mostly)Islam countries and Africans.These people don't want assimilate here,most of them want free money and healthcare and get rid of Dutch culture like Zwarte Piet and Christian traditions.If they are discriminated against they owe it to themselves with their behaviour,the rest is bullshit...complaining complaining how terrible the Dutch are,I've seen it all!
What do you mean THEY are not discriminated? Why did Geert Wilders say: dat ze hun vaste baan moeten inleveren voor een flexibele baan. The youger generation from Moroccan, Turkish, Middle Eastern, West African, South American background can´t find a job easily, even finding a part-time job is hard, especially in smaller towns, there is descrimination.
We get racist comments and then people will say it was just a joke.
@@BlueSky-hj5fm I am very bothered by the "it's just a joke" comment after saying something racist as if saying it was just a joke makes it okay to make racist remarks.
Are you in some denialism?.
Turkish people discriminated? I doubt that. I was born and raised in The Netherlands and like many of "my people" I was NEVER discriminated. Maybe there is some discrimination like everywhere, but that's not worth mentioning.
You are living in Disneyland, you dont even notice it
😄😄 okk
As a Turk, I've actually never felt discriminated in the NL. There are very rare situations, but it is coming from pretty much everybody, Moroccans, Blacks, White Dutch people (or "natives" as Americans like to call). Tourists mostly. Nederturken: those Turks who came to the NL in 1950s are also quite stranger to me. They've never experienced secularism in Turkey and most of these people left Turkey because they were poor, but make no mistake, religion was also a big factor. When they were fleeing Turkey, the women were not even allowed to cover their head in public institutions. So, it's understandable they isolated themselves and the Dutch (also the German) were ok with that. But times have changed. In the NL there isn't any kind of discrimination against Turks. I can't speak about the Moroccan side, some people think just because we're both muslims, we must be same and should be mentioned together in every sentence, but in reality Turks are closer to Italian than they are to Moroccans. I think in the NL Americans should also be worried a little bit about being discriminated. The situation might be worse for them. Being white won't be enough, this is not racism, this is nationalism.
Am Moroccan, and I remember a Dutch store owner was discriminating me when I went to buy cigarettes from him saying that I should go home, even though am not an immigrant am there for vacation, so I knocked him out to the shadow realm for raising his voice at me
You’ re just a taliban. The whole Europe hate Moroccans . Bad people from a s*it country
And that’s why people like you are hated
I have to correct the story of the repatriants from the Dutch Indies after it got its independence. It were actually Dutch citizens flying from a life threatening situation after the Second World War with the independence movement : the Bersiap tijd. The. Molukkers are some what different : they were a part of the Royal Dutch Indian Army and were by order brought to the Netherlands and then were dismissed.
You are absolutly right. I tried to explain in as short as possible way without getting into 400 years of Indonesian-Dutch involvement and 4 years of war for Indonesian indipendence. So thanks for the short explaination!
Thanks for the additional explanation on this
Beginning in the Seventies there were people, mostly left-wing and socialist organisations, who at least were warning for the imminent problems between the "gastarbeiders" and the Dutch workers. I know because I was then active with the Stichting Ontwikkelings Samenwerking Vakbeweging ( Foundation Development Coöperation Union) from FNV and CNV . This landed however not that much and it got worse in time. Solutions were given that are valid stil, but with time harder to implement as : more economic development in the home countries and equal payment for the immigrant workers. Do not expect for fully returning of the immigrant worker but set up special education. Do not allow to alienate the natives and immigrants by show them as compettetors but forder solidarity and understanding. The last however was a problem because of the, sometimes deliberate forming of an in-groupe; easy in the Netherlands because the infrastructure was already there. The Netherlands were just freed from the most petty social construction of all times: "de verzuiling" (pillars) You see the remnants of this in the name of the Foundation above: FNV is from the Socialist Union and Catholic Union and CNV is from the Protestant Union. For instance it was pretty easy to make Islamic schools next to catholic and protestant schools because of the "pacificatie"van 1917. In the Seventies there was already a strong grip of Turkish nationalists on part of the Turkish Dutch in the form of cells of the Grijze Wolven operating in a big city as Utrecht. The way that Erdokan speaks about Turkish emigrants is not helping in integrating Turks in the Dutch society and the way the Moroccan government is behaving either. Now, fifty years later there are populists who are harvesting the resentment of a big part of the Dutch that have not the open mind to see the person that is his neighbour but only the foreigner that is his contestant.
I thought you were trying to get an education for helping sexual abused people. That means some knowledge about psychology and even psychiatry I think. I have not so much knowledge in these fields, but sometimes I see people who identify themselves with a special group very strongly. If this the case they can be manipulated very easy: in is good, out is bad.
Thank you for sharing more historical information about the situation and some of the ways this issue could be fixed.
As for what I am studying, I am researching how psychoeduction for adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse might help them with healing. I am focused on the individual healing process, not on the larger social scale issue, that is a different area of study. Additionally, my question about the development of the discrimination in the Netherlands towards Moroccan and Turkish people is very specific to the Netherlands and is not related to my area of study at all. I could have made generalized statements about the development of discrimination everywhere, but without the help of people who know more about the history of the Netherlands, I would not understand the specific environment that aided in this development.
There are a few causes: 1) They were brought here as "guest laborers". So, guests go away after the party. They did not and were not supposed to. That is not the fault of Turks or Moroccans, but of the Dutch government lying. Why were they lying? Because contrary to the United States, European culture and countries are earth bound. The country belongs to the "tribe" who occupies it. That comes with a culture. Moroccan and Turkish culture is muslim, the Dutch culture is Christian western. That gives tensions, f.e. in relation to the place of women, the place of relgion and nationalism in politics and more. So, I am NOT saying one culture is better than another, but only that it breeds deep rifts. Deep rifts come with lack of communication. And there you have it. I expect it to get better with every generation. I hope this will not be an issue anymore in 100 years.
I also hope that these types of issues will one day not exist, but I think that would mean there was world peace. Unfortunately, world peace doesn't seem like it will happen anytime.
Why is it contrary to the United states?
fair point from a moroccan
😂😂😂😂 the Dutch are not Christians
there is also the problem that Turkey and Morocco try to bring the Islamic rules in the Netherlands, and don't expect things that is normal in the western world(female rights, freedom of opinion). I have study and work with people from both for years, and even then it is hard to always find the difference. but also the governments from both counties keep a tight grip on the people that live here, even if there are born in Netherland there have to go back to there parents country because there seen by turkey en Morocco as here people as well. And get judge they on something here have say badly about they county. and men have to go back to there country to get army training there when they turn 18, even that they born in Netherland.
and because the younger generation will not come in contact with other people and cultures until they much older (+13). Because of the close cycle there grown up in, they will get in trouble because there don't know "better". and there was in the past and still go a lot of money to Morocco from Netherland to people that did not earn this.
Why would Dutch citizens that have a Turkish or Moroccan heritage have to do military service?
@@knowingthenetherlands662 because that is what the government from turkey and Morocco require from them, as there see the children and grandchildren from there countries that live in other countries still as there subjects. And have to follow there rules of country. If there don’t do it there can end in jail
@@knowingthenetherlands662 He/she is bullshitting, even people who were born in Morocco don´t have to get army training. And I am saying this as a Moroccan. I don´t know about Turkey, but Moroccans don´t get a tight grip from the government, even if they were born there. The Moroccan government ain´t giving a f*** about people who love the coutry, were born, raised and live there , and you think they care about the people who left the country?
And about the Islam, it´s not true, there are Jewish people in Morocco, nobody bothers them. Also a lot of people in the Netherlands can´t see the culture and religion as two seperated things. They say that they are open-minded, why would y´all not open your eyes and see the facts, and instead of thinking that you are the only person who is right, try to understand why other people think that they are right. I promise that there is a reason behind everything.
@@samknetsch BTW, there is no military service in morocco, even for local citizens.
Wow I've never read so much bs in one comment. By the way you should get some English lessons. Cause you moet wel verstaanbaar zijn for everybody you know.
I for one disagree with this load of bs.
I mean, Moroccan Arab society suppresses the native Berber population and Turks don't have a very favorable opinion of Kurds and Syrians. Not really unique to the Netherlands.
Hi you, I think it has to do with the jonger generation of those two. I think a lot of jong folks are more likely to get in trouble. I know a few Turkish guys and those are one of my best friend so I think its not all of them. The older generation of them are really hard workers and have made a big difference in the culture of the Netherlands. I'm not agenst them but I am agenst filance. Who ever does it. When your a nice person I'm more likely to like you whoever you are.
Keep this nice videos coming tho I really love them. Keep it up girl
Thank you, Lars!
I think youngsters everywhere are pretty reckless. They are growing up and trying to figure things out. Guidance and support are so important.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 i completely agree with you on that one. Saying this makes me feel old tho but that's ok😅 i was a jong guy myself one day and I'm very the way I'm raised but I also know a lot of youngsters have a different and maybe not preticular better way they get raised. I think good and also bad people are everywhere and it doesn't matter what color you have or the way you look, everyone is the same from the inside and its partly your choice to make the best of it(and partly your parents ofcourse)
Sure. The questions would be why do they turn to those things? Most likely Bcs they are not being treated equally even though they usually are second and third generation and they consider this their only home. Discrimination doesn't allow for many oppertunities even when educated so they rebel.
@@princessrachida8092 the first and second generation maybe got discriminated but the third(and rest) not anymore. It is mostly by the way they are raised, they think they can do everything, then when they get caught they say the cops are racists. That is the big problem. They don't get discriminated, but they still use it when they think it is necessary (that is also what my Turkish friends say) they just use it as a tool.
@@larsmeijerink5471 wow. Are we going to deny the obvious facts? The numbers clearly show that having a different racial background in the netherlands means you are multiple time more likely to get convicted than someone who is a (white) dutch person. This is the Reality many of us lived and still live and many like you deny bcs you are priviliged. Get your head out of the sand bcs im second gen. First gen born here and the racism increases and is not like you are saying decreasing.
I worked with Turkish people for 20 years, they are just people, nothing wrong with them..., not sure they are really discriminated here, I sure don't, this is not Trumpghanistan you know, people that act normal, and don't bother others, are treated normal here..
I have heard quite a few people state they don't like Moroccan and Turkish people and they would like them to leave the Netherlands. That's the polite version.
"they are just people" . So are lsls members.
Im a kurdish girl ( turkey ) and i want to marry a dutch man. We always see turkish/ kurdish men with european woman but rarely the opposite. Kurdish/ turkish men treat european women like Queens but their own women like sh*t. At least Dutch men will know our value!!
@Adam i am talking about turkish/ kurdish men especially not moroccan men
No part two?
(About the problems the next generations had adjusting - for living in two cultures?)
But nice one! Not just because of the kitties.
And just found out you can ask Michiel to make a commercial for your channel. (Unless he only does pudding... Hahahahahahahahaha)
I would like to do a part two, but I don’t know when.
I didn’t know about Michiel’s video commercial for pudding! It was funny!
@@knowingthenetherlands662 It was.
And teens wil be teens, but them having to manoeuvre between two standards and getting angry is what made things worse.
Don't know if there's a second video in that.
It's funny to see Americans talk about discrimination in another country. 😂
From this interview, we understand the difference between European and American perspectives. Since America does not have a nation-state-based history and America is a country of immigrants, there is a more accepting society structure. but holland was not founded by immigrants immigrants came later and the netherlands is a dutch nation state
It would be more logical not to expect societies with different value chains to get along very, very well. Despite this, I think that foreign minorities living in the Netherlands and other European countries have adapted as well as possible to the society they live in. Come on, don't expect you to have a moroccan man just like a Dutchman, my dear.If they can live side by side without fighting, that should be enough. Anything more is a bit of an exaggeration.
Netherlands is all Erdogan supporters. Don't blame them. Turk here...
Why do you say they are all Erdogan supporters?
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Most are from what I see in voting polls and protests. They go to other countries and want Erdogan's policies implemented in that country. I live in Australia myself and I don't bring my crap here as a Turk. Australia is not a Ottoman Empire province. I am not religious (I don't believe in wizards and centaurs) so that might have something to do with it too.
@Adam I don't live in the Netherlands nor do I support Erdogan.
It same like US and Mexico and Afro- Americans. It it all great or bad? It's just the state of mind of the person. Some Americans doesn't like this immigration and want much greater wall, while at canada side there is less. But not all Americans think like that and see opportunity instead of disaster. So every country has this kind of retoric. It's Optimistic vs. Pessimism. By the way...I like your cat
I agree. It’s important to talk about regardless. It shouldn’t be acceptable to discriminate against other people.
Tubby appreciates the good vibes and sends some your way, but covered in fur.
I wan’t to move to The Netherlands soon from Canada, and i’m learning dutch before i go there. I heard that Turks don’t assimilate themselves to dutch community which is bad, because you’re in the Netherlands, so you have to blend in.
There’s a difference between blending in and integrating. It sounds like since you are focused on blending in, you’ll be just fine.
How about the indonesians there Miss ??
I personally have not seen or heard about this level of discrimination towards Indonesians from Dutchies. People have openly told me that Moroccans and Turkish people deserve to be discriminated against because they are ruining the Netherlands. Discrimination of other cultures is in the Netherlands, I was just focused on this openly discussed and, for some people, acceptable form of discrimination. Could you please share more about the discrimination towards Indonesians?
And also on the topic why did they stay thats because a lott of maroccan had kids in holland whi grew up in holland rhats one of the reason that they did not go back
Why? look at what they did last time they WON a soccer match this world cup.
You should NEVER call the Netherlands "Holland" we are NOT all Amsterdammers.. the civilized parts of the country do not like being called after Amsterdam.
I think this is an issue within the Netherlands that should be discussed amongst Dutch citizens and then shared with the world. Since foreigners get mixed signals from the Dutch it should be expected that foreigners will call the Netherlands "Holland" and that Dutch citizens should not take it out on foreigners.
I find this video really interesting, i would love to know what is Dirk's academical background ? keep up the good work 👍
your a good looking girl, from Ben a Moroccan from the uk London
Also in the second world war a lott off maroccan died fighting for holland
nobody care raraj3ou lblad ou ghaliw bladat nass fti9arr
I am a Dutch-Moroccan and i have never been discriminated by the Dutch.
As a moroccan myself ( speak amazigh and arabic) and of course muslim! I experienced so much racism and hate from them because of my religion and questions like oh why you dont eat pork why you dont drink alcohol.
@@meri058nal9 Is it racism when someone asks you why you dont eat pork? lol
@@googleaccount7977 exactly… why people do this ? Curiosity is racism now. I’m gonna say this, Dutch people are very open-minded and usually well-educated. And if there are things, that bother them, it is not without any reason… i also live here, but I am from Poland.
@@livias.2972
Oh! Should it BOTHER u when someone doesn't drink milk or don't eat honey?????
Typical polish comment! But don't worry in the REAL WEST even in Germany try to be European through soreading hate against Muslims..
Calma bro! Most of your neighboors, esprcially Germans see u as a poor, uncivilized car-thief coz
Others could see ya as an unt3rmen$ch coz of ur slavic descendant... u should't feel protected from racism
@@midaka5925 wtf do you even know about Poland? And more important: why do you judge me so quickly? You have no idea about me, all i can see is anger and hate from you. You’re calling me racist by being racist to me. Wanna compare Poland to Germany? You’re so funny. Educate yourself, read some history, otherwise our conversation in this topic doesn’t make any sense. Actually, I don’t even want to talk to someone like you. Your hate and anger will get you soon because you can’t put it on others forever. That’s all for me.
Because they do 5-6 times better at negative statistics like crime, education(in a bad way i mean) and welfare (not working/participating). Many negative behaviors are there and make people feel bad and unsafe and don't even make it to the statistics. So discrimination is very bad... no one should be judged before you know them offcourse. Some people just get that way since they experienced bad things or know the chance is more likely with this group. If many people with freckles for example will score mouch higher on negative aspects some people will become judgemental towards people with freckles. I had some negative experience myself aswell with younsters unprovoked, same for my sisters. In the meantime 2 of my best friends are Turkish, but they are living in Turkey and are awesome.
Do you ever asking why they are doing bad? Nope you just care about what is in your world but you wouldn't survive a day in their world.
@@RLjumpers I don't know what you mean... One problem i would say many come from families with a lower income, which brings difficulties. I come from a family with 5 children and only my dad worked with an avarage salary and still we all studied and have good jobs now. In the netherlands everyone can go to the same quality school and university (and university for 2000 euro per year, which you can borrow for 0% interest from gouvernment). If you dont go on the streets and do criminal stuff with your buddies you won't get a criminal record... The Netherlands is one of the most equal and richest countries in the world. The poorest people in the Netherlands have great lives and oppertunities compared to people all over the world, especially turkey or Marocco. So i really don't understand what you mean seeing the situation in this perspective...? pls explain.
@@RLjumpers Oh and thank you for reporting my 1st comment which said nothing out of line, racist, judgemental or bad... i can give you the stats by the dutch gouvernment if you like. You might not like that or agree with it but no reason to think it should be gone. Thats how dictators work... and if you ignore some sensitive issues the problems don't go away.
@@Peasmans stats are a consequence of something can you even think further than just conclusion? Where I grew up there was 0 dutch kids, the government dropped all of us in 1 dirty corner and then expected to come back after 20 years and look at fully integrated adults. I know people that went from basis to gymnasium and the other way around in 2 years, that should tell you the system doesn't work.
@@RLjumpers Well... the netherlands is a very rich country with equal (as it can get) oppertunities for all people. If you can't make it overhere you cant make it anywhere. Compare your life now with the avarage turkish or Maroocan guy in Turkey or Marrocco. You had better oppertunities, you have more wealth, better healthcare and more freedom. And some strict parenthood could definetly help too with positive motivation developing in a positive way. But sure... from a neighbourhood like that, hanging arround outside on the streets with similar kids chances are much lower in developing in a positive way... and once a criminal record it gets worse many times and some jobs get out of reach. But just saying it fault of the system and there is no responsibility for individuals and parents is a bit too easy for me... especially in a social country like the Netherlands.
I have no idea about Moroccans but i do know the situation for Turks. First, you should know that Turkey is extremely divided. Western part (where i live) is just like Europe, extremely relaxed about religion-no one actually cares what you believe in. Central and eastern parts are where conservative people live mostly but just religious, like a conservative Christian. And the 1st generation of Turkish workers were conservative people who were not even capable of read or write in Turkish. But as i said, religion is not compulsory/forcément in Turkish culture. I mean i have a homosexual friend whose mother wears hijab. Or you can still wear or drink what you want while considering yourself as muslim. A reflect of secularism and religious diversity of Turkey. So better to educate younger generations of Dutch Turks, majority wont have any trouble to adopt into Dutch society. Their background is compatible. Dont be biased just bc how uneducated and uncouth their parents/grandparents were
You shouldn’t discriminate to conservative Turks either?
ne dersen de sen onların gözünde türksün ama dutch lar zaten genel eğitimliler , insanlara zarar vermedğin sürece çok sallamazlar nereli olduğunu diğer avrupa ülkelerine göre , dutch lar iyidir
Thieving, raping, robbing, organised crime, scamming 😊
There are some parts missing, as @Dirk has pointed out. The issue can be understood fully if one comes to understand those immigrants's mentality in the first place at that time. They obviously didn't mean anything intentional, it was them expressing themselves. As it is known, most of them came from rural areas in Morocco, with zero education. What I am trying to allude to is what is called in philosophy the historical epistemological break, to mean projecting certain forms of episteme onto other periods of history where those forms of episteme didn't exist. All in all, what I got from this video was what I always saw and believed; the nobility of the American perspective, and the acceptance they have towards other people. God bless the founding fathers!
Do you mean the Founding Fathers that were racist and misogynistic? The ones who owned slaves and only accepted old white guys as equal?
I'm Moroccan and yes our people are aggressive
Perhaps ur family...
Again i dont want to sound racist, but i did have problems when i whas younger. i whas beaten by 7 turkys on school just becous the wandet to do that . And 1 time i whas beaten Just becous i ask the way by 3 turkys . So togeter i have been 2 months in the hospitaal for it . And No im not a racist but i am prejudiced
That is terrible to hear that you had experience that.
Lmao
Sounds like your life would be a lot better if the Netherlands had dported them
MaShaAllah Bismillah SubhanAllah
inShaAllah Ameen
﷽🕌
AsSalaamUAlaikum Wa Rahmatullahay Wa Barakatuhu
السَّلَامُ وٓعـٓــــــــــــلـَيْكُمُ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُه
آمِـــــــــين يَا رَبَّ ٱلۡعٰلَمِيۡنَ
اَللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى سَيّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَى آلِ سَيّدِنَا مُحَمَّد
ﷺ
﷽🕌
WalaikumAsSalaam Wa Rahmatullahay Wa Barakatuhu
وٓعـٓــــــــــــلـَيْكُمُ السَّلَامُ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُه
اَللَّهُمَّ صَلِّ عَلَى سَيّدِنَا مُحَمَّدٍ وَعَلَى آلِ سَيّدِنَا مُحَمَّد
آپ پر الله کی رحمت و برکات اور سلامتی ہو
آمِـــــــــين يَا رَبَّ ٱلۡعٰلَمِيۡنَ
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They don't belong in the Netherlands
There, saved you 35 minutes
Thank you for your service.
Why not if that one person is trying to be dutch culturally and it's values and doesn't harm anyone do you think all of them doesn't belong there ??
We want to replace you
@@linsd_4457 good luck
That is what Hitler said to the jews. They don't belong here. We all know the result, look at history. Don't try to play god or imitate these Nazi-guys... Mister Nostro, if you don't have knowledge about your own country.
Aaaah,I like you
Normal educated people learn a few languages here in the Netherlands.. no need to force our language upon the poor foreigners..
It is advantageous that the Dutch learn multiple languages to help with trading as English is the universal language. People who want to reside in the Netherlands indefinitely should learn Dutch. Unfortunately for most people, even temporary workers in the Netherlands, learning a language that only 3.4% of the world population uses is not advantageous enough to learn. Additionally, there are parts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands that have English and Papiamento as official languages, so it would be good if the whole Kingdom would accommodate their own citizen.
Racism.