This is a video I had wanted to tackle for a long time. I have rarely hidden my view that I believe that the 1983 Turkish Cypriot unilateral declaration of independence was a mistake. Many Turkish Cypriots have often said the same to me. So, here is the story of how it happened, and why the international reaction to the creation of the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' was as strong as it was. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on this? Thanks for watching. If you found this video useful, please do consider giving it a 'Like' and sharing it with others who might be interested. And do all consider subscribing. It helps the channel to grow! Much appreciated!
Even if the international community has acted judiciously under this particular set of circumstances, it obviously remains the case that this same "community" of self-interested governments will always have the potential to behave either unwisely or with malevolence toward some other group's unilateral declaration of independence. Therefore, IMO, the question of whether or not international recognition is an essential element of national sovereignty / legitimacy remains. Of course, I understand that this video wasn't meant to address this topic definitively one way or the other.
I might be the only turkish Cypriot who has watched this video since we have a very small population. In my opinion one of the reasons for the failure of anything regarding the reunification of the island is due to both the ROC's and the TRNC's governments thinking only about the short term consequences of a unification. It also doesn't help that the average Greek Cypriot earns around twice as much as the average turkish Cypriot in the north which could be a burden on the economy if a unification ever takes place. A great example for this would be the economic disparities between east and west Germany even though it's been 30 plus years since the unification. Sadly the income gap between the north and south is widening even more now due to how much value the turkish lira has lost since the last 3 years. Also the newly elected leader of the TRNC wants to legitimize a new independent TRNC which makes a unification seem even less likely. Anyways I hope the island can reunite in the future and that we the younger generation do not repeat the mistakes that our ancestors made. Love and peace.
Thanks. I would hope that more Turkish Cypriots have watched it! :-) It was a fascinating story. I'm guessing you are relatively young? Did you remember Denktash? I met him on a number of occasions. (My family has actually lived in Cyprus for 30 years and I have written many books on the island, its politics and the division.) The decision to declare independence in 1983 was an utter disaster for the Turkish Cypriots. I suspect they would be in a very different place todays had that not happened. And yet Denktash was repeatedly warned not to do it. Anyway, I would like to share your optimism about the future and the young. But I'm not convinced. I hear more and more say that they think division is the best option. Even in 2004, young Greek Cypriots were more likely to vote against unification than older people! Meanwhile, the current Turkish Cypriot administration is taking a very hard line position on a settlement. Sadly, for all these reasons, I don't think the island has the luxury of much more time to decide on reunification.
@@JamesKerLindsay Agreed even though I took an optimistic stance realistically the chance of any kind of agreement being made between the two sides seems slim. I didn't see denktaş in person although my parents did. I remember seeing him on tv during live broadcasts and interviews when I was a kid. Thanks for the reply.
but since the EU recognizes all of the island as part of the EU, dont you get structural funds? If you dont, then reunion with the republic of cyprus would be the door for EU membership and therefor bringing tourism and those structural founds to bridge the gap between the cyprusses
Why do you want Cyprus to reunite? From what the video says Cyprus doesn't exactly want to reunite either. Shouldn't you guys be aiming for UN recognition?
2 года назад+11
Video failed to mention EU, UK and USA promised to lift or ease sanctions immediately after failed referendum in 2004 and none of them kept their promises. Instead USA lifted arms embargo to southern Cyprus recently.
@Rob well with the combinations of demographics and brexit, it may very well happen. With the sea border, the economic of the six counties are already becoming more dependent on Dublin
As a Turkish Cypriot with great knowledge on the subject I found this video very informative and clear, so thank you for that. However, I have to say, the world continues bash and hate on the Turkish Cypriots decision to create an independent state in 1983, yet never pays any attention to the actions of Makarios in 1963. It was the Greek Cypriot administration who first destroyed the Republic of Cyprus. The 1960 constitution was ripped apart in 1963 with the events of bloody Christmas. No effort was put in place to correct these mistakes. The republic of Cyprus has remained under full Greek Cypriot control ever since. The decision to make TRNC independent was 17 years after the constitution of 1960 was already destroyed. The Turkish Cypriots were left with no other choice. They has no representation or recognition within their homeland. The so-called government promoted violence and ENOSIS (union with Greece). Even with that being said, the Greek Cypriots refuse to negotiate with us to this day! Since 1968 there has been 17 series of talks. 15 of which have been rejected by the Greek Cypriot administration. Lets not even mention the Annan Plan & Crans Montana. We must stop this bashing of Turkey & TRNC’s decision of independence when the Turkish Cypriots were left with no other choice. That is why Tatar strives for a two state solution today because Greek Cypriot leadership has maintained the status quo for 52 years.
Hi Eren, thanks so much for the comment. As it happens, I know Cyprus really well. I lived there for eight years! And I actually did my PhD on the events of 1963-64. Since then, I’ve published a lot on the various talks. (Interestingly, I was actually a part of the British delegation at the talks in Crans Montana in 2017!) It is such a tragic situation, with mistakes made by all sides. I know the GCs have made mistakes, but it’s also important to remember that Denktash did as well. I actually made a video about the Declaration of Independence in 1983. This was a huge mistake in my view. (I say this as someone who met Denktash many times and actually liked him enormously at a personal level. He was actually incredibly funny one-to-one - as long as you weren’t his political enemy!) It has actually made things much harder for the Turkish Cypriots over the years. But how do feel about prospects for new talks?
@@JamesKerLindsay ..hullo ..! Well , I must say that ..the dream of ENOSIS finished with the establishment of our common republic of Cyprus been established in 1960 . Turkey had other plans about the island...so creating the terror organisation T.M.T ( after a bomb been puted in the Turkeys embassy in Nicosia)..threating and killing Turkish cypriots( look for 1. Ali Dervis kavazoglou kendi sensinden / 2 . the unfortunate story with the "family in the bathroom " ).. manage to isolate them in "ghettos " ! .Thing's started from December 1963 ... ! Our compatriots Turkish cypriots, a minority of 18% been found with rights in the ruling of our state like they were 30%-40% and yet they" blow them up ."..From 1963 till 1967 our compatriots giving arm troubles to our common state. We even had in August 1964 , the troubles in ERENGOY/KOKKINA..and Turkey's air force bombing our villages around..2 of them even with NAPALM BOMBS . threating us not to clear..and that last village from the GANGSTERS they was fighting against us. ( against OUR COMMON STATE ) ..all this time , we had killings and missings persons on both sides and a WALL of hate between our 2 communities ..SO , since until 1967 the Turkeys plan TAKSIM NEVER manage to be established .. America ( KISSINGER), England ..through NATO still wanted to satisfy Turkey's ambitions ..and trough GREECE ..created the terror organisation EOKA-B .( playing with our EXPECTATIONS ).threating and killing us ! Greek cypriots in the name of ENOSIS .. manage ( after the coup been Dane in July 1974)..to OPEN the doors and HELP Turkey to invade 5 days later and STEAL almost the half of the island....// like I wrote above ..PLEASE search in you tupe about "Rauf Denktash's shocking confession" ..read and the comments below...THE TRUTH is there.. ..TODAY , ..we have the Turkish cypriots politicians and the elite around them not to want a JUSTICE SOLUTION .. most probably , they are very huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our STOLEN PROPERTIES , ..hiding behind Turkeys arms asking for more and MORE .. even if WE ALL KNOW that NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES . ..! // and of course ..TURKEY ..who wants to ..EAT ALL the island !
..WORLD , do NOT EXCEPT ..states to "crow up" like .. you Turkish cypriots want here ( a new state on STOLEN PROPERTIES ). ! ..there are MANY states with minorities .. and this , if happens in Cyprus ..ALL the world will be in troubles ..! ( imagine Turkey it self , ..)
In the mess of the Cyprus story is one nugget of hope; Cyprus has, through force "unscrambled" the omelette. Two ethic groups physically separated, living on their own separate territory. Few ethnic conflicts around the world are so blessed. If both sides do not wish to live together, why force it? The RoC should agree to to recognize the TRNC as an independent state, and Turkey should be forced to make financial reparations to the greek Cypriots who lost property in the north, and RoC should do the same for Turkish Cypriots who were forced to leave the south. Turkey should repatriate its citizens living in TRNC unless the TRNC wishes to naturalize them. Better to have two neighbours with a big strong fence demarcating their respective properties, rather than forcing them into a condominium that will inevitably fail. Good luck to all.
I am from Cyprus (and i am a greek speaking Cypriot, my parrents are refuges from Famagusta after the 74 invasion of Turkey). Unfortunately i think that Great Britain played a role in the escalations later by dividing Cyprus between Turkish speaking population and Greek speaking population from 1914 onwards. In order to gain independence Greek speaking Cypriots in 1959 approved fewer positions in key places and did not even dicide for their own constidution etc. Of course that pushed back in 1963 and unofficially the people of the country divided in two, according to their cultural beliefs. The independence from Great Britain at 1960, was "at all cost independence". Turkey invaded Cyprus in order to "help" that minority of the Turkish speaking population, but in the end the came and stayed. Denktash was a leader nevertheless. I totally desagree with his actions but in the end he was clever and knew how to manipulate the mases. I am not saying that Turkey should not have come. I am saying that they did not had the right to oppress the people who lived at the northen part of the country for rediculous 40+ years... I really hope for a reunification of the island. I hope that my family can move back to Famagusta. I hope at least that the northen part accept my fathers attempt to move on there. But i have no faith in our politics any more... Thank you so much for your video, it was interesting and informative. Please continue, I fold in love with your channel!
Yeia sou, Mano. S’efcharisto para poly. Emeina sti Kypro 8 chronia. Kai enas adelfos kai i adelfi mou menoun sti Lefkosia. Tin agapo Kypro! Cyprus has certainly had a very difficult history. Lots of blame to go around, sadly. And yes, the UK has done many things wrong, especially in the 50s. However, as I showed in the video, since then I do think it has actually played an important role in stopping further division and promoting unification. And thank you so much for the really kind words about the channel. It means a lot. I hope all is well with you and that things are OK on the island. I miss it very much. Hopefully, I’ll be able to visit again before too long.
@@JamesKerLindsay Hey!! Your Greek are excellent! I know that now. We can only blame ourselves unfortunately from now on... I hope you can revisit Cyprus again, maybe in a join government!
Northern Cyprus never declared independence. It was never given a choice. It was invaded by Turkey in 1974 and still is an occupied area, recognized by no other country.
I am relatively new to this channel but I love your videos. Since the Greek Government wanted to force union with Cyprus what do you think shoiuld have been Turkey's response. Should they have just let it happen?
Thanks so much Robert. I appreciate the kind words. I’ve done a lot of work on Cyprus. (I lived there for eight years and it’s the conflict I worked on most over my career.) My view is that the first Turkish invasion was just used under the terms if the Treaty of Guarantee and international law more generally as there was a very good chance that the Greek military junta was about to annex Cyprus. However, the second invasion was done in bad faith and clearly has no intention of trying to return to the status quo ante, as required. So, I sit between the two positions. The invasion was not illegal to start with, but has become an illegal occupation. And the 1983 UDI was completely contrary to international law. (And was the biggest mistake the Turkish Cypriots made.) By the way, if you’re interested in Cyprus do keep an eye out. I hope to do something on this again soon.
@@JamesKerLindsay ....SO RIGHT..! you are so right ..Mr James.! at least ,someone like you , is also fighting for justice on this island..! As Cypriots , . WE THANK . sir..!
Thanks for these Cyprus videos, I am a Turkish Cypriot. I find the idea of unification very unrealistic and I wonder what will happen in next 50 years. I think Turkey has a different plan for Cyprus, Azerbaijani officials visited Cyprus recently and Pakistani officails are planning to visit which is unusual. I wonder if Turkey is planning to push for recognition.
Thanks. Very good points about Azerbaijan and Pakistan. It is interesting to see what is happening. But I still think that reunification is the best option for both sides. Division means a hard border between the communities. The Greek Cypriots in the EU and the Turkish Cypriots outside. This effectively means integration with Turkey. I really don’t think that’s what most TCs want. (And I should mention that I have spent 30 years working on Cyprus and lived on the island for 8 years. This is something very personal to me.)
Well , the nation of Turkey played dirty games against my country CYPRUS since..1958.. through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots a minority of. 18%.., been found with RIGHTS like they was ..30%-40% with the establishment of OUR COMMON REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS at early..60s , and yet they blow them UP following instructions from Turkey.. TODAY.. our compatriots Turkish Cypriots,they past the dimant for equality..( the 18% to be equal with the 82%)..and they are asking for a state on OUR STOLEN PROPERTIES..! AGAIN TURKEY. through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots is trying to put a hand on the islands.. NATURAL SOURCES..! ..The way they are going..( the Turks)..one day they gonna ask from US CYPRIOTS to leave from our country.. for proofs PLEASE search in you tube about..1/..". Rauf Denktash's shocking confession".. read and ALL the comments below THE TRUTH IS THERE.. 2/.." Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sesinden".. a Turkish Cypriot journalist been merdered just because he was saying the TRUTH
@@thekraken1173 .. Turkish Cypriots should return back to our common state ! amd even apologize about all those arm troubles they gave to our common state. otherwise .. SOON or LATER .. a Turk settler will be in control for the occupies ..!and you will be a minority again between them ( settler's).. ..already , 115.000 of yours hold the CYPRUS " ID's".. 80.000 of yours hold a CYPRUS PASSPORTS ! ..already , a Turkish Cypriot is a member of the EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT..! been elected by Greek cypriots votes..! ..WAKE UP ..! ..you will return even with less Rights than you had at early 60s ! After all ,you are just a minority of 18%
In the occupied north part of Cyprus and following decades of colonisation by Turkey now the Turkish Cypriots are fewer than the new Turkish settlers from Anatolia. Also an occupying force of 40,000 Turkish soldiers is permanently based on the island.
Turkish Cypriots are majority in Northern Cyprus,also settlers dont have Turkish Cypriot citizenship,so controls are on the Turkish Cypriots to solve the issue,but more then 60 percent of them demands independence.
@@clgnugur1156 You said "Turkish Cypriots are majority in Northern Cyprus" I correct you. What does Azerbaijan who are a Persian people have to do with this?
Well, that is a huge question! Not sure where to start. Anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe certainly plays its part. But there are also genuine concerns about its capacity to meet the demands of membership, especially as there has been some serious backsliding on democratic freedoms. It is a long and complex story.
@@draganserdar9999 in fact, that’s not correct. If Turkey joined, its capital, Ankara, would not be the most eastern of EU capitals. Nicosia, the capital of Cyprus is further east. And would you argue Russia isn’t European. Let’s face it, when it comes to Europe, the idea of ‘continent’ is a construct. It is part of a broad Eurasian land mass.
@@JamesKerLindsay turkey want to join eu since eu form union,and turkey have dream,to be in Europe,but dream,can be dreamed for next many,many many years,.
Thank you for the video James. I have become very interested in Northern Cyprus since I did some genealogy research for my girlfriend's mother; I found out that her father (whose identity she didn't know) was a cousin of both Rauf and Aydin Denktas. It is strange to be connected to such a pivotal family
Where to start!? Unfortunately, there aren’t any active talks for reunification at the moment. The last ones ended in 2017 following talks in Switzerland. It is not clear when new ones will get underway. As for issues, there are a lot of things that need to be addressed. However, the main ones are: what sort of federal government will the island have? What will happen to territory? (The Turkish Cypriots will need to return land to Greek Cypriot administration) And what will be the Security arrangements? Then there are other issues, such as his will the island be represented in the EU? What happens to Turkish settlers? All this could actually be solved relatively easily with political will. Sadly, this is in short supply.
No. I’m saying it is very difficult as states have created a system that fundamentally protects them from new entrants. Unilateral secession is really and truly disliked.
..bro New nations can be established only with worlds principal's..! The north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974.! MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA. ! the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties.! The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common country CYPRUS since 1958 ! Through your community.. actually..! a minority of 18 % been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state at early 60's .. Yet. ,that/ your kin .. blew them UP following instructions from Turkey. . actually , they took the arms against their own state.
there are many universities there welcoming warmly the international students to come. with the low tuition fees and living costs, do you think it's a good choice? and if the whole republic is unrecognized, doesn't that mean the universities are unrecognized too? (I earned a scholarship there but still not sure if I should study in an unrecognized land, I am afraid it be like just studying 5 years in the NoWhere) 😅
Thanks for the video.I am planning to read your book on this issue as well.My question is TRNC was recognized by Turkey,and nowadays as we can see on many platforms that Armenians want the international community to recognize Artsakh.Even Armenia herself does not recognize it.What is the story behind it why does Armenia not recognize it first ?As far as i know recognition changes from state to state and could you make a video on recognition ?
Thank you so much, Vincent. Great questions. On the first question, the TRNC is still recognised by Turkey. But Turkey is the only country in the world that does recognise it. As for Artsakh, it was entirely unrecognised. Armenia didn’t even recognise it. I think this is because it would have gone against UN Security Council resolutions. There was some talk that Yerevan could have recognised it during the war as an act of remedial secession. (I have done a video on this.) However, this would have had no practical effect. Armenia was already doing all it could to help it. In any case, it makes little difference now. If Armenia were to recognise Artsakh now, it would only cause more problems. Instead, I think the focus should be on reaching a final settlement that will probably be based on some form of autonomy within Azerbaijan supported by close communications and cultural links with Armenia. I hope that clears things up a bit. Do let me know how you get on with the book.
I can see I’m going to be getting it from both sides! Greek Cypriots insist the UK has only ever helped the Turkish Cypriots and Turkey. However, as this shows, that’s really not the case. In any case, having watched the video, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on whether the Declaration of Independence was in fact a mistake. Denktash was repeatedly told what would happen, and yet still went ahead and did it!
zorbathegreek Thanks. I wondered what he was expecting too!? Part of me thinks that he knew what would happen, but just didn’t care! The interesting thing is that I genuinely think that Turkey never controlled Denktash as many believe. He really was incredible popular and influential in Turkey. Political figures really didn’t want to take him on. As one senior Turkish figure once told me, everyone lived in fear that if they went against him, he’d simply get on a plane and give some TV interviews and talks at universities. I went through the diplomatic archives on this story and I genuinely believe that Turkey didn’t want him to go ahead with the UDI. It really served no purpose for Ankara. It just gave them an added problem. I know that seems hard to believe. However, I met Denktash a few times. If there was one thing I was sure of, it was that he was nobody’s puppet. In fact, I think that why he went so nuts over the General Assembly resolution. It made it sound like it was all about Turkey rather than about him and the Turkish Cypriots! Anyway, it is a fascinating story. There was so much more I just couldn’t fit into a 10-15 minute video.
@@JamesKerLindsay , imo it was not a mistake. Ankara had no desire to relinquish northern occupied cyprus as they viewed it as a continuation of the greek ottoman war of 1821 throught to the balkan and first world war. Ankara's not so crypto ambition was not simply to stabilize the ottoman territorial decline but to actually reclaim lost territory irrespective of others having older claims than them. Ankara has repeatedly stated it has no claims on cyprus as in the 1923 Lausanne treaty turkey renounced all claims on cyprus hence why they use the turkish cypriots aspirations and ambitions to further ankaras desires without violating past treaties untill they can do so without repercussions. Keep this in mind as you watch todays unfolding events such as turkeys intervention in syria, libya, armenia and elswhere. Also keep in mind the overt public statements of tayip erdogan on his greek visit last year where he stated turkeys desire to renegotiate the treaty particularly in regards to borders, ethnic minorities and the status quo in the agean. Whilst digressing slightly to the topic of the anan plan, stating simply that the turks accepted and the greeks did not does not do justice to either the contents of the anan plan nor the realities and legalities. Imo having read the plan in its entirety it is obvious that kofi anan other than lending his name to it had nothing else to do with it. This topic in my opinion is a worthy issue for you to expand a video on. As fir the rest of your work you have another subscriber added.
James, in some future video, if there's an opportunity, please say something about the effect of the UDI on the quality of life in the TRNC. I'm wondering how it affects things like life expectancy, infant mortality, cost of living, industrialization, quality of education, and prospects for the future. Are they living under siege? Or, to put it another way, how isolated is isolated? Is life worse than before 1983? Are residents there utterly dependent on Turkey?
Is life worse than before 1983? no, It is like one of turkish city. Are residents there utterly dependent on Turkey? yes, but in some cases better than GC, such as there is a water line from turkey to TC.
This so called ''TRNC'' is not recognised internationally, so therefore, the Turkish Cypriots are worse off as they are internationally isolated. Also, remember that at the end of the day, Turkey is occupying the northern area of Cyprus since the invasion, and therefore backs this so called ''TRNC'', and there are more setlers (colonists) from Turkey in the north, than actual Turkish Cypriots. I have to disagree with James, I don't believe that Turkey was surprised at this declaration. In fact, I believe Denktash and Turkey planned this declaration in advance.
The north part of CYPRUS is OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974..! MILITARY OCCUPIED AREA..! TODAY.. just their military put people in costumes to play political games. ..it eas only last.August ,that a Turk ,mafia leader , blaming mr.Erdogan on TV ..saying about the OCCUPIED areas ,that they agree to become a ..DRUGS base snd .." money laundering "..area.. .
Hi James very interesting video and a very interesting argument of what would happen if a state was not declared. Few questions. (a) how did the Turkish army and Denktash portray themselves to their own people and abroad between 1974-1983? (B) you say there was a plan to annex in 1974. Any sources I can read further? (c) from things i have read in the past - the history of the Cypriot embassy in Turkey is an interesting story to add to the narrative
Why is it that those countries which have recognised the independence of Greece back in 1830 haven't done the same for the Turkish Cypriots? Why is it that when Greek separatists asking for independence were helped while Turks who have only asked for the same thing were not?
@@JamesKerLindsay Your reply doesn't make any sense to me. As far as I know, Metternich saw the independence of Greece as a catastrophe and a major threat to the Concert of Europe. So the dichotomy that divides Greeks asking for self rule from Turks asking for the same thing is not the turn of the century. Secondly, the original target of Greek Cypriot terrorism was none other than the British governor of Cyprus. It would appear that you see nothing wrong with that but when the Turkish Cypriot community rejects Greek rule, you are making up excuses to defend the Greek cause. That can't be explained away by saying that the times were different because the gap separating 1960 and 1980 is only two decades. In any case, given that Metternich hated the idea of Greek independence, the same sensibilities existed in the previous century. Could you please think again and come up with a more satisfactory explanation for the discrepancy in your assessment of the Greek Cypriot cause and the Turkish Cypriot cause.
@@os360 The entire basis for independence and statehood under international law was completely different in the nineteenth century. There’s no comparison. I have an introductory book on statehood and secession coming out early next year. I cover it all there. But essentially the way new countries were accepted then is completely different from now. That’s why there is no comparison.
OK. Cyprus was entitled to independence as a colonial holding. That was not in question. The fact the Greek Cypriots fought for it is irrelevant. Britain had to give it up. But international law said that once countries become independent their territorial integrity is then protected. Almost every country in the world has minority communities. They want to safeguard their sovereignty. So they’ve decided that secession is only permitted with the permission of the ‘parent state’ - as the country the territory is trying to break away from is known. This is why Cyprus could become independent, but the Turkish Cypriots can’t. And the rules on decolonisation and territorial integrity only became enshrined in international law after 1945, that’s why earlier comparisons don’t work. Really, it is very simple - and none of this is disputed. That is why the Turkish Cypriot unilateral Declaration of Independence was condemned by the UN Security Council and why no country has ever recognised it. From an international legal perspective it is about as straightforward as they come!
@@JamesKerLindsay There is no difference, technically speaking, between a Greek minority living in the Ottoman Empire, one living in the British Empire or a Turkish minority living in a Greek-dominated Cyprus. Each case is a case of a minority that cannot get along with an internationally recognised government. If the Turks need to ask the permission of a Greek parent state (a latecomer founded by rebels as opposed to a venerable and historic institution), then surely the Greeks must have the permission of Turkey, and in the case of Cyprus, Britain. To argue otherwise means that the Greeks are somehow entitled more than the Turks and the British are. Now, let's visit another part of the Balkans. When the Slavs rejected Turkish and German rule, was that alright with you? Presumably yes? And yet when the Croats reject Serbian rule, their aspirations were backed by Germany and Austria. On the other hand, for inexplicable reasons, the Serbs of Krajina were pressured to accept Croat rule. As for the Bosnians, only Turkey ever cared for the Bosnians. It is exactly the same problem, you see. Namely, double standards. Speaking of international law, what is to be said of Greece's invasion of Crete, Macedonia and Salonika in 1912? Surely this invasion was a far bigger violation of international law than Turkey's intervention in Cyprus which was part and parcel of the Cyprus treaties signed by Makarios himself. What about the vandalisation of the Turkish cemetery of Salonika where Greece's fanatical regime uprooted Turkish tombstones from the cemetery and then used them as landfilling so that no trace of this cemetery remained? ISIS supporters drive bulldozers over their own father's graves, whereas Venizelos supporters have run roughshod over our fathers' graves. Which is the greater evil then? Salafism or Hellenism? If the ethnic cleansing of people of Turkish ethnicity or Muslim faith is acceptable, then why have you referred to exaggerated Armenian claims as the 'Armenian genocide' in your other video? What is the difference? Typical isn't it? You are making one set of rules for one party and another set of rules for the other. That is fine only if Turkey is the beneficiary, otherwise it doesn't sit well with the Turks who set great store by their honour and dignity. And by the way, I hope that after this discussion, it is easier to see why this generation of Turks have grown rather disdainful of their Cold War allies: observation of double standards and promotion of Turkey's enemies by those who profess to be Turkey's friends. Look for no other explanation.
The Greeks do not except there war crimes and suffering of TCs from from 1955 till 1958 and from again from 1963 till 1974. The Greeks always brush that part of history under the carpet and go with the narrative that it’s all turkeys fault because they invaded in 1974. Do the Greeks know how many Greek Cypriots the Turks also saved from execution? Around 25 percent of Greek Cypriots did not want nicos Sampson and e o k a and enosis. So the Greeks where killing there own people who had different ideas to the megali idea. Thank god for turkey, then now and in the future. Without turkey there would be no TRNC or Turks left in Cyprus.
Prof. James another fascinating and well explained piece. The Greek side never wanted an independent Cyprus, they wanted ENOSIS, to be part of mainland Greece. Their dreams of this never included the Turkish Cypriots who still to this day they see them as almost sub human. The atrocities committed by EOKA amounted to genocide. Crimes for which they have never been held accountable. Turkey did have a legal right to intervene. The Greek side may have lost the war but have certainly won the propaganda war. They have convinced the world that a Turkish invasion force just turned up one day without any justification and it is them who are the victims. There can never be a United island while the Greek side do not recognise the Turkish side as equals and that will never happen.
that's because the Turkish side isnt equals. they represent 18% of the population... not 50%. secondly just because there are a few nationalists does not mean that all of the population wanted union with Greece. this is how i know you are not Cypriot. Cypriots identify as Cypriot and we got along with Turks well very well. you spoke both Greek and Turkish dialect. you can blame the British for trying to split the country ( they did successfully) because they couldn't handle the uprising under British rule dictated ridiculous measures. today barely anyone wants union with Greece. they want their own country run by the people without illegal invaders and military interventions. the illegal north will never ever be recognized and for good reason it is illegally occupied by a foreign country. its exactly what the Russians are doing right now in Ukraine.
Well The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common country ,since 1958 ! Through our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots. A minority of 18% , whom been found with.. over rights with the establishment of our common state. The Republic of Cyprus , at early 60 as , and yet ,they blew them up , following instructions from Turkey.! They actually took the arms against their own state , heading ,for Turkey's ..TAKSIM plan as..! Over rights , like they were 30%-40% ,as with their participation in the states rulings and functions , YET , they was blocking the progress plans of the states , ..! TODAY , our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots , they past their dimant for equality , ( the 18%- to be equal with the 82% , like ..50%-50% ).. and they are asking for a state , on our stolen lands and properties..! Again , TURKEY , through our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots is trying to put a hand , on the islands nature sources..!
way too biased views you should take off your Turkish propaganda glasses and do some research! MIT Turkish intelligence has had a lot of action down in cyprus. Especially the special war department as it was called formed in the late 40's 1947 t o1948 by NIHAT TERIM!!! Menderes the prime minister at that time asigned him Nihad Terim to find a solution to take over cyprus.....Nihad took the task but informed Menderes that Turkey had no chance to do anything on the island because it was not easy since the status quo id the island did not permit anything legal for the Tiarks to do! So Nihad Terim formulated the plan of enclaves for the Turks and Taksim also the armament of all the enclaves started from Kokkina and the closed city of famagusta that was the end of the cyprus republic as we knew it! The turks had TMT under denkatsh that started the uprisings and the coup det tat in 1963 which in fact it was a rebellion against the republic also the turks refused to pay taxes and started to choke key routes to disturb the economic activities of the island, So the Turkish plan for taksim was well in full 🌕🌕 swing early in the 1950! TMT even had a factory in Nicosia manufacturing guns and using them against the greek inhabitants of the island!1 So do your research before talking!!! Cheers 🍻🍻
@@demphotiou .. Thanks .! is very nice ,that you know all this real history , ..! is really unbelievable ,how the Turks are living in such " darkness "..!
Well.. According to my opinion, the KEY word about the Cyprus issue is.. respect..! RESPECT..! The main reason that the Republic of Cyprus enters the EEU ,is right/ exactly , for the quarantee and respect of all its citizens human rights..! ALL CYPRIOTS human rights..! Greeks, Turks, Maronite's, Armenians, Latin's, British.. etc..! NO MORE , quarantor powers..! All , and the three of them, they played enough with their dirty games against us all Cypriots..! Turkey, should of respect that , and finally let us Cypriots to live happy on our island..! TODAY.. FCC or those they do not know... One ,out of the six members of the Republic of Cyprus in the European parliament IS a Turkish Cypriot been elected mainly by the votes of the Greek Cypriots..! About.. 120.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus.. IDs..! 80.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus.. Passport..! * ..PS..:..including the present Turkish Cypriot " priminister "..Mr. Tatar ..! RESPECT..!
Few other "details" to factor in Republic of Cyprus established in 1960. It was never fully sovereign state as we might think. London and Zürich Agreements made RoC pretty much of a protectorate. Turkey, Greece and UK had interests that got recognized by those agreements, which became part of international law. Establishment of the Republic was an uneasy compromise between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots since one demanded partition of the island, when the other demanded entirety of Cyprus to be annexed by Greece. Neither side got they wanted. It took less than four years to start disintegrating. After a healthy dose of communal violence, both sides agreed to disagree yet held themselves a bit long. Barely three years later, again, reached another tipping point where GC half of the administration attempted to change already fragile power balance by turning Turkish Cypriots into mere minority. Of course, Turks didn't have one bit of these proposals. Island fell into cycle of violence again, Turks pretty much squeezed into scattered enclaves and urban ghettos. For Turkish Cypriots, Republic of Cyprus died in 1967, not in 1974. 1974 was the end of seven years of living in encirclement. From mid 1974 to late 1983. That is almost a decade of spinning wheels in endless and fruitless negotiations. If you take 1967 as de facto end of RoC, when it ceased to represent one of the two constituent nations and administer the territory they controlled, due violence they sponsored, it's not unreasonable for Turkish Cypriots to end the misery for both sides. 2004 Reunification referendum and subsequent attitude of international community (keep punishing the more cooperative half) gives little incentive to Turkish Cypriots to trust concerted international efforts at this point. They can hardly be blamed considering how eager the international community was to recognize Palestine and Kosovo or give legitimacy to Republika Srpska after all had been done during Bosnian War.
Thanks. You are clearly interested in Cyprus. But be careful not to buy into one side’s view of the situation. While I sympathise with the awful position the Turkish Cypriots encountered in the 1960s and 70s, Denktash never had any interest in a settlement. By the way, Cyprus is a situation I know particularly well. I lived on the island for a number of years and have served as an advisor to the UN, EU, Council of Europe and British Government on the Cyprus issue. (I was also at the talks at Crans Montana.) You might like to read my book: global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I have also published a number of other books on Cyprus.
@SilverOrien you are one sided and bias yourself, international community has never showed sympathy for turkish cypriots. The only side wanted to unite, said yes to Annans plan. The international community had to soften restrictions over the rights of turkish cypriots to give a reason for the Greek side to collaborate more. The greek cypriots are at the end in a much better position. They have no reason to give up on their position, the international community has failed to provide that reason.
..well , I must give you my point of view . ! Us , Greek cypriots dream of ENOSIS ended with the establishment of our independence. Turkey still has other plans about our common state. Even if our compatriots Turkish cypriots found themselves as a minority of 18%.. to had rights like they were 30% -40%..and yet ..following instructions from Turkey they " blow them up " ..giving troubles to our common state. We had the ..13 points of the referendum needed to be changed ... and from there we had the arm troubles beginning on December 1963 , ..with Turkish cypriots so ready..and well armed for ..more arm troubles . In the same time we had their terror organisation T.M.T threating and killing Turkish cypriots first ..( look for Ali Dervis kavazoglou kendi sensinden , ..the unfortunate story with the "family in the bathroom"..) ..manage to isolate them in" ghettos ".. , August 1964 , we had the troubles in ERENGOY/KOKKINA and when the government forces was about to relive/liberate and that last village from the GANGSTERS was fighting against US .. we had Turkeys air force bombing our villages around , 2 of them even been bombed with NAPALM BOMBS ! .(. can you imagine , NAPALM BOMBS on innocent people ..women's , children's and old people ..?) ..threating us NOT TO ..just to had time to save those people ..been transferred from Turkey's mainland . Then , troubles in kofinou village 1967 ..with our compatriots Turkish cypriots shouting around bothering the lives of local population. So , since Turkey's TAKSIM plans NEVER been successful ..the Americans ( Kissinger) ..the English .. NATO ..still wanted to satisfy Turkey that so , through GREECE ., playing with our EXPECTATIONS , .we had here the terror organisation EOKA-B.( 1971 -1974 ).threating and killing US ,Greek cypriots in the name of ENOSIS. .until.. we had the coup on July 1974 , and 5 days later .. Turkey's invasion .. with the HELP of GREECE .!
.. SO , ..during ALL this time 1963 - 1967 , we had a lot of killings and missings persons between our two communities and a wall of HATE BETWEEN US . and this is what ..they all wanted . To show that we MUST BE SEPARATED / .. . DIVIDE .. ! ..by the end , most probably this is for the good of US . ..We have fanatics and CRIMINALS on both sides .. that so ..until early 80 we was very close to a SOLUTION ..saying that ..ALL CYPRIOTS ( Greeks and Turks ) .. can return to their HOMES . the Turkish cypriots will have the 25%of the island. New homes, villages will be built in that 25% for the Turkish cypriots that so they will be the majority in their area! .. then Mr. Denktas ..changed his mind heading for his .."state " ..! on our STOLEN PROPERTIES . we all know that NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES . TODAY , we have the Turkish cypriots politicians and the elite around them NOT TO want for a JUSTICE SOLUTION , most probably they're huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our STOLEN PROPERTIES ..asking for more and MORE ., hiding behind Turkeys arms . About the late ANNAN PLAN .. we Greek cypriots voted NEGATIVE JUST BECAUSE was still giving RIGHTS ..on the island to Turkey . WHY ? to except that nation to still control OUR STATE ? GREECE and ENGLAND..are NEGATIVES to still involve in our country ..WHY to except TURKEY to still ...// PLEASE search in you tupe about" Rauf Denktash's shocking confession ",, read and the comments below...THE TRUTH is there..
@@vasosglykeriou9252 I didn't want to indulge this lunacy but let's fact check, shall we? Dream of Enosis didn't die with the establishment of the joint republic. It continued at least until 1974, Akritas Plan, Greek Cypriot takeover of the joint institutions, 1974 Greek Far Right Coup D'etat.. all of them happened due to undead Enosis fixation. Turkey was content with Republic of Cyprus as a political solution. If Greek Cypriots and Greece haven't done acts of agression, Turkey would be still fine with it. Even if she wasn't, that would be still geopolitically and politically stupid move to destabilize functioning Turco-Greek joint state. Turkish Cypriots weren't always 18%. Significant decrease have happened during British rule and continued during joint Republic. You can't cherry pick demographic statistics to your will after open or concealed ethnic cleansing. You can check out diaspora as well and you'll see there isn't significant difference between Turkish and Greek Cypriots if you include their diasporas. One of the reasons Annan Plan's rejection was clauses regarding "right of return" and rearrangement clauses of power sharing of joint institutions. Greek Cypriot politicians knew fully what it meant. TMT is Türk Mukavemet Teşkilatı (Turkish Resistance Organisation). The name and date of founding, compared to EOKA's name and date of founding shows what was ethnic terrorism and what was self defense. Those "gangsters" were trying to keep the only maritime link open to bring materiel and much needed goods, since Greek Cypriots were busy exterminating their fellow citizens in organised fashion. Ever heard Sarajevo Tunnel of Life and Serb snipers & artillery on hilltops? Pretty much same story. Turkey didn't send troops with help of Greece. On the contrary, two countries almost went to war with one another. Denktaş argued for partition since the beginning, even before 1960, but he was overruled by Turkey and international community. Only after fanaticism of Greek Cypriot politics proved him right and he masterfully carried out his agenda. Knowing what happened before 1974 or since, Greek Cypriots have been proving time after time Denktaş was right all along. Also it was never 25% deal. Always 30+% deal. 30+%, bizonal, bicommunal federation, created by two constituent states, all guarantor rights from London-Zürich regime continuing. Negotiations seemed to stalled about the divergence on the competencies of common federal state but in reality it was always about guarantor rights and Greek Cypriot maximalist claims. They argued for every inch of land. Meanwhile resting on their laurels, knowing full well international community gave them carte blanche for their spoiled attitude. Now they can enjoy their short sighted policy. TRNC won't ever return to any joint institution, other than confederal solution. Turkish Armed Forces remain on the island as they please, with the numbers they want to have, Greek Cypriots can only claim their property if they recognize TRNC's de facto sovereignty, paying their tax to that state. You guys better recognize the fact that you missed the chance. Annan Plan was the best offer on the table. Now Turkish state and electorate doesn't really care about EU's carrots. You just worn out the other side. By the way, many of those "Greek" properties are illegally seized properties of Turkish Evkaf (Endowments) and individuals. After figuring out what was really owned by whom, calculation of Turkish Properties left in the South and the Reparations for 1960 - 1974, Greek Cypriots might get nothing at all, if they don't pay up themselves. These are the truths you might need to search.. Have a nice day!
Leave it to politicos and nothing good comes out for ordinary people - like elsewhere also even today. Without knowing the history of Cyprus, I was vacationing in Cyprus until one day before the "invasion". I hadn't paid enough attention maybe, but I had not noticed animosity between the two peoples; same as in islands in the Aegean and mainland Turkey in the '90's.
I would like to know what else could have happened? During the coup by Greece many Turkish Cypriots who were living together with Greek Cypriots in the same city's town and villages were singled out the night the coup started killed and their houses burned. They were out to kill every Turkish Cypriot on the island and many Greek Cypriots hide in their houses also scared for their lives. Even if they wanted to help their Turkish Cypriot counter parts they couldn't as the ones behind the coup would also kill them. Turkeys invasion was seen by the Turkish Cypriots as a God send as they saw it as being saved from death. After the Turkish Cypriots going tho such horrors at the time what else could they have done but declare independence and securing peace for themselves. It's easy to look back and say they should of done this or that but u need to understand what the people who were around at that time went tho and the horrors they faced. Those troops behind the coup backed by Greece even by the Greek Cypriots who knew and grew up with there Turkish Cypriot counterparts saw them as terrorists.
The trouble is that the declaration of independence took place almost a decade after 1974. There was no threat any more. The Turkish army was there in large numbers. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was repeatedly warned not declare independence as this would force an international reaction. And this is exactly what happened. It was condemned as illegal by the UN Security Council and countries were told not to engage with the ‘TRNC’. This made things far wise than then needed to be. That’s my point. It was a completely unnecessary decision which has done lasting damage to the Turkish Cypriot community. Their isolation has been confounded by the short-sighted vanity of declaring independence.
@@JamesKerLindsay I agree with you 100% but far right groups still exist in Cyprus even today. Those who call for every turk to be thrown off the island. Even tho they have lived there for 100s of years. In political sense ur right but for the safety of the Turkish community there I still believe it was the right thing to do. Let's say they didn't declare independence in my opinion we would still be in the same state with turkey running everything. Independence gave the North a chance to also govern them self's. As some one who's family is in the North now but originally from the South it hasn't been too bad. Even tho we live in the North we still benefit from the EU. For example I can go and get an EU id card and I am granted all the benefits of an EU citizen even tho my family reside in the North of Cyprus now. Same is not true for those who moved from turkey to Cyprus after 1974. Only those who have roots in Cyprus before that. A little known fact there are still Greek Cypriots still living in North Cyprus which never left and they were allowed to stay and that's in karpaz the tail of Cyprus
@@alstar7232 Thanks. But again I would argue that the Declaration of Independence has actually left TCs far more dependent on Turkey. If Denktash hadn’t declared independence then there would have been no resolutions calling on states not to assist the TRNC. This would have meant trade could have continued. The ban on direct trade was as a result of those resolutions. The TFSC did everything that the TRNC did but did not alienate the international community. It was trying to formally secede that did the damage. Really, I have written about Cyprus extensively. (I have 7 books on Cyprus including this global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en&) I lived in the island for 8 years and have interviewed most of the GC and TC senior political figures - including Denktash. In private, most TC politicians admit that the Declaration of Independence was a disaster for the community. It does nothing to protect them from GC nationalists. All it has done it made the TCs more isolated internationally. Really, it was a monumental error.
Wow what a story! In hindsight this guy Denktas must have been a real piece of work. I tend to agree with a comment of yours that Denktas was not a Turkish puppet but instead the Turks were actually afraid of him (and secretly perhaps despised him). Some minor conclusions from your video: a) Different cultures are difficult to coexist (but not impossible). b) Turkish politicians can become quite emotional and self-destructing, in a complete contrast to their public image as wise deep strategic thinkers. c) Conquering new territory by force is still a manifestly legit enterprise for Turkey. (!!!)
Thanks. Denktash is a strange one. I met him many times. I always say that I hated his politics and I wouldn’t have wanted to be his enemy, but one-on-one he was one of the sharpest people I’ve ever met. And he had a brilliant sense of humour. You could ask him anything, and even disagree strongly, and he would not get upset. He had the master politician’s ability to make you feel like you were the most important person he could be talking to. He was actually very likeable - again, if you weren’t his opponent. As my late father once said, imagine what Cyprus could have been if he had been President of the whole island! On your points, I agree that it is difficult to exist, but certainly not impossible, as you say. As for Turkey, it is indeed capable of extremely self-destructive behaviour. This is something that one sees across SE Europe. There’s actually a term for it: inat. It doesn’t have a direct translation in English, but essentially it means doing something that while harmful to your interests, nevertheless allows you to keep your honour intact. I always tell students that once you’ve cracked ‘inat’, the region becomes a lot more understandable. I also say that other countries are just as capable of it! (Elements of Britain and Brexit come to mind.)
@@JamesKerLindsay Hi James, thank you for your answer. I’ve searched “inat” and here is what I found: a) It’s like when you do something that’s the opposite of what everyone wants and expects, just because they’re pushing you. b) It is doing something on purpose, even though it’s forbidden, perhaps because it’s forbidden. C) It’s like shooting a fighter bomber with a pistol. As obstacles grow, so does “inat.” D) “Inat” can be found in Winston Churchill’s “We shall fight on the beaches” or in JFK’s “We choose to go to the moon … not because it is easy, but because it is hard.” Or in Hilbert’s “we must know, we will know” despite Goedel’s proof that this was impossible. It involves a defiance of reality esp. when faced with a perceived injustice. Inat in the west is used for really big goals, as per the above examples. If I got it right, you are saying it is used in SE Europe for everyday politics and petty things. Regarding your description of Denktash, I've noticed two things: 1) Charming personality 2) Makes you feel important as long as you serve his game (even by disagreeing). Is your mind open to the mere possibility of a mild sociopathy? I know, this kind a demarcation is forbidden, but 1) and 2) are the reddest flags.
PLEASE search in you tube about.. " Rauf Denktash's shocking comfession '..! & " Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sensinden "..! ..after that you will get an idea about.. Who was this terrorist..!
Thanks. Yes, the hope is to create a federal solution. However, there are a lot of different issues that need to be resolved. The trouble is that there isn’t the political will to reach an agreement. It is interesting that you mention Bosnia. I think many Cypriots are in fact worried that the island will go in that direction with a settlement and eventually become dysfunctional.
@@JamesKerLindsay As a Greek-Cypriot i agree.. that is our biggest concern and it was also the reason we rejected the 2004 plan, certain provisions of it were problematic and for Greek-Cypriots unacceptable, as it was regarded as a settlement that would merely create further issues and conflicts rather than resolve the existing ones. The truth is that most issues can be resolved, and could had been resolved if both communities could trust each other and would simply create a united state without the distinctions. I mean, many other states have minorities (actually most do), but the best solution is simply to ensure that there will be no discrimination based on ethnicity. The 1960's constitution was way to complex and by separating the power between the two communities it simply created tension. Turkish-Cypriots felt they were not represented adequately as they had less power in general. Greek-Cypriots felt that the other community had way to much power considering they represented only 18% of the population ( as in most cases the Turkish-Cypriot community had power of 30-40%, and disproportionate to their population). Thus, it was a recipe for disaster when the extreme nationalism of both parties was taken into account. So the best solution would had been for a state with a constitution that would not discriminate based on nationality... This though seems as unrealistic in our world and in the current situation. So the best possible solution now, would most likely be that of a confederation. Yet, for such a solution to work Turkish troops should leave the island (except from the small garrison that was established by the treaty of 60...), turkey and the other foreign powers stop trying to intervene in internal Cypriot matters and the property of displaced people from both communities should be arranged to be given back (or at least fairly compensated). In return, turkish-cypriots will have powers within their own confederate state in matters such as education, policing etc, similar to the powers federal states have in the US or in Germany.Moreover, they will enjoy the EU citizenship and the rights this entails as well as the ability to trade and move freely within the EU. Cypriots should be able to leave in each state (as it would be unreasonable to be able as EU citizens to leave in other EU countries but not in their own confederate states..) while the ethnicity should not be regarded as a requirement for any position in both states. The power each confederate state has on the federal government should be proportionate to the population. ( as population changes power allocation should be amended accordingly each decade with a census similar to the US system).
@@killermanattack how about military? TC had bad experiance when GC tried to genocide them after the coup d'etat, what gives guarantee that won't happen again other than empty words?
I don't know if it was intentional, but you left out the most important point: The north part of Cyprus (just like every other part of Cyprus) was inhabited by a great majority of Greek Cypriots until the Turkish invasion of 1974 which ethnically cleansed the majority (Greek) population from the part of Cyprus they occupied, and replaced it with Turkish Cypriots who came from other parts of Cyprus, and Anatolian Turkish Settlers. It should also be noted that the Turks were threatening partition since the 1950s, and that with their invasion they took 36% of territory and 50%+ of the resources and coastline of Cyprus, for the 18% Turkish Cypriot community. So this is quite unlike cases such as Catalonia, Kosovo, Scotland, Crimea etc, where the local population of that territory might seek independence. In the case of Cyprus the majority of the local population of northern Cyprus was ethnically cleansed by a foreign invading army. The north part of Cyprus does not belong to Turkish Cypriots, and therefore they can not talk on behalf of that territory. It is unfortunate that there was no word about the Greek Cypriots who were expelled from their homes! You talk as if north Cyprus belongs to Turkish Cypriots, which definitely doesn't. You can't declare "independence" for a territory that doesn't belong to you and which you took with invasion and ethnic cleansing.
Thanks. These are 10-15 minute videos. I have to make a judicious decision in every one about what information is directly relevant to the situation I am.dealing with in any particular case. This necessarily means omitting information that one side or another regards as vital. When it comes to Cyprus, you can be sure that I considered this particularly carefully. My family have lived there for 30 years, and I’ve actually lived on the island for 8 years. I have also published about 7 or 8 books on the Cyprus issue and the politics and international relations of Cyprus. global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en&
@@JamesKerLindsay Hey, thanks for your quick reply! I've been watching some of your other videos since I posted my earlier comment ;) I think the fact that Greek Cypriots had been the vast majority in "northern Cyprus" until the Turkish invasion of 1974 is a very important fact. When we talk about "declaration of independence" or "self-determination" I think most people assume that this is done by the local population of that territory (the majority at least or their elected representatives), and not by others, most of whom just moved to this territory after a foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing of the majority of the native inhabitants. So I think calling what happened in Cyprus as "north Cyprus seceding" or "breaking away" gives a wrong impression. It gives the impression that there was already a "north Cyprus" region with a majority made up of Turkish Cypriots, who then choose to secede. The north part of Cyprus did no "secede" neither it "broke away". It was forcefully taken from its native population by a foreign army, which since 1974 continues to occupy it.
Thanks a lot. Points well taken. This is actually a very important issue that I should perhaps look at in a future video. We do think of territories and groups as having a right to self-determination, but what happens when conflict leads to a group coming to dominate an area where it wasn’t a majority previously?
@@JamesKerLindsay Exactly. "Self" is the important part of the term "self-determination". You determine your own self and your own territory. Greek Cypriots have been the majority in north Cyprus for 1000s of years until the ethnic cleansing of 1974. So that territory couldn't possibly fall under a separate "self-determination" of the Turkish Cypriot community. Clearly there is no legal or ethical way to divide Cyprus along ethnic lines.
And the South was inhabited by a great number of Turkish Cypriots. What is your point. After 1974 110k GCs moved to the South and 60k TCs moved to the North.
Türkçe'de bir deyim vardır: Koyun can derdinde, kasap et derdinde. İnşallah Kıbrıs bir gün barış içinde yaşamanın yolunu bulur. Kıbrıs Türklerinin insan hakları kabul edilir umarım... Hangi evde oturduğunun ne önemi var mutlu değilsen?
Well. The main reason that the Republic of Cyprus, enters the EEU , is right/ exactly for the quarantee and respect , of all its citizens human rights..! ALL Cypriots .. Greeks, Turks, Maronite's, Armenians, Latin's, British ..etc.! NO MORE ,quarantor powers ! All ,and the three of them ,they played enough with their dirty games against us all Cypriots..! TODAY .. for those they do not know..! One, out of the six members of Cyprus, in the European parliament IS a Turkish Cypriot been elected mainly by the votes of the Greek Cypriots ..! About . 120.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots, are owners of the Republic of Cyprus, ..IDs .! 80.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus ..passport..! PS : including the present Turkish Cypriot " priminister "..Mr.Tatar ..!
@@andydocherty8343 well, I don't want to get married but if billionaire super-model proposes me, I would go for it. guess what, that aint happening either..
There is a simple 2 state solution. Follow the Australia and New Zealand model of citizenship. Recognize South Cyprus and North Cyprus as 2 independent states. Turkish Cypriots can grant citizenship rights to Greek Cypriots and vice versa. A Turkish Cypriot can elect to become a Greek Cypriot and a Greek Cypriot can elect to become a Turkish Cypriot or they can maintain their own citizenship but enjoy the same citizenship rights of the state. This way the people in both states can travel and live freely in either state protected by the law as though they are citizens. The would open up the island to all Cypriots. Free trade would be optimal between the 2 states. Everyone would win. A win win solution. Learn the Australia and New Zealand citizenship model, it works.
Thanks. That is a really fascinating point. I hadn't heard this idea before! (And I thought I'd heard everything on Cyprus!) I know that there is a strong body of thought that increasingly argues that maybe a more incremental approach to the issue is needed. Rather than a big bang settlement day when a new state of affairs comes into being, it might be better to be more gradualist and bring the communities together in a variety of ways leading up to an eventual federation. The problem is that the Greek Cypriot side is extremely cautious about anything that would seem to recognise the 'TRNC' or ceded sovereignty to the Turkish Cypriots. This makes anything that starts on the basis of sovereign equality extremely difficult.
@@JamesKerLindsay Federation will not work because both sides want self determination. Both sides also have strong historical claims to the island. Cyprus is only 40k from Turkey and was a Turkish territory for 400 years. The Greeks on the other hand have lived there for a long time. Both their economies are dependant on their mother countries Greece and Turkey so they are effectively proxy states. Its not that hard really. Give both sides self determination which would mean UN endorsement, follow the Australia and New Zealand model, open up the island for all, open trade for all, which would also be proxy trade for Greece and Turkey. The Australia and New Zealand citizenship arrangements do all of this very successfully to everyones benefit. Also note that federation in this case is over rated, would be unnecessarily complex, and will always be a source for argument and conflict. New Zealanders do not want to be seen as Australian, they are a self determined sovereign state, yet at the same time, both peoples enjoy full citizenship rights of each others country, no visa needed, they can live and work, and opt to become citizens if they so choose. By the way, the Australia and New Zealand solution is brilliant, it works extremely well and has done so for a long time.
@@northgork what australia- new zealand is with cyprus,and turkish cyprus,australia-new zealand,are two totaly diferent country,they are not bean one country,and divide,on two,.cyprus is always bean,one,since,and turkish cyprus,doesnt recognise,anyone,and it will not be recognise,ever,anyone,cuprus is only one,belong to greek people
@@draganserdar9999 Correct. Cyprus belonged to the Turks for over 300 years and before that it belonged the the Venetians not the Greeks. Moreover, Cyprus is geologically on the continental shelf of Turkey so geologically speaking Cyprus is an island of Turkey. My idea is to establish a 2 state solution so that both Greeks and Turks of Cyprus can have self determination and live in peace and prosper together and share the island with equality in citizenship rights as per the Australia-NewZealand model . As long as Greeks are close minded there will never be self determination for both sides. You cannot expect the Turks of Cyprus to allow the Greeks of Cyrus to oppress them all over again - an lets not even talk about the attempted genocide committed the Greeks. Greek rule was tried and it failed. Wise up.
@@northgork i dont think,so, cyprus is not bean ever turkish part,.turks come ilegaly landed,and occupy half cyprus,and resetle poor turkish people there,.if cyprus belong to turkey,why the UN,and anyone iib the world recognise Turkis Cyprus no one no any country in the world will recognise Turkish Cyprus,as a country,except Turkey onle,and Greek Cyprus will not ever join Turkis Cyprus to be togrther,.Greek Cyprus is part of EU why Turkish Cyprus is not part of Europe,it will not be ever,.
It's a really interesting and useful video. May I ask you more about the US reacton to the 1983 decaration of the independence and it's role in the resolution 451?
Thank you. In fact, there’s really not a lot to say. The UK took the lead on this. The key aim was to get a UN Security Council resolution drafted, which the UK did, and stop key Muslim countries from recognising it until the resolution could be passed. Bangladesh and Pakistan were key, both of which were Commonwealth Countries. UK and Greece worked on getting EU members to help where they could. (Obviously nine of them considered recognition.) At the same time, Cyprus worked on the non-aligned countries. The US supported all these efforts, but was not at the forefront of activities.
No, it wasn’t. The Turkish Cypriots did it. I have been through the historical documents at the time. Turkey half-heartedly tried to stop them. In fact, the very reason that Denktash chose the moment he did to declare independence was because Turkey was transitioning between military and civilian rule and wasn’t in a strong position to stop them. It is very common for Greek Cypriots to see Ankara’s hand behind everything the Turkish Cypriots do. In truth, the TCs have often had a bit more control over their decisions than many realise - especially under Denktash.
Professor..! I can only except that , knowing of your ..knowledge about the issue.! YES.. most probably Mr.Denktash , actions was ..further more than of what the official state of Turkey was ready to gives. ! ..BUT , , for sure his actions was approved by their military , and their Nationalist parties ..! ..ACTUALLY.. We , the Greek Cypriots , had the same story...! Since , the anti colonialism struggle , focusing for the ..UNION of the island with Greece mainland... ( 1955-59 ).. The local leadership wanted of something ...that GREECE , by the end , was NOT ready to strongly support it..! SO , .as a result ..we have the two communities suffering , from their own ...act's..! Great..!
Dear James, great video and very informative. It would be interesting to make a video about unilateral declarations of independence throughout history, maybe sometime pre WW2 or even further. Didn't the USA unilaterally secede from the Britain?
You keep repeating “denktash has been warned not to declare independence and he did so, so it was a mistake”. I would ask some humility before making a judgement. Nobody can question his patriotism and love for his people and land. And their parliament passed independence resolution. So what was he suppose to do? Don’t they have right to self determination in this context? International law and UNSC resolutions are tools for big fishes to use against small fishes in the ocean. US, UK, Russia and other powers turns blind eye to international laws and norms when it fits to them. So, Denktash did what he was suppose to do. It’s easy to make youtbe video and criticize people who have their blood, sweat and tear all over their county
He was a nationalist and supremacist . There is no reason the man couldn't have loved his people and land under Cypriot rule . There is no excuse for treason
PLEASE.. look about... " Rauf Denktash shocking confession " & " Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "! there you will understand what kind of.. tricky person ..was that personality
"Nobody can question his patriotism and love for his people and land." Having love doesn't mean you can't make mistakes. At least in hindsight, it would probably have been better for Northern Cyprus to just continue with de facto independence without formally declaring it. That would have made international relations easier. I think it's fair to call the declaration of independence a mistake regardless of who you blame for it.
.." love his people and land.."..? What you really mean here..?.. Brow..! The north occupied areas are occupied by Turkey since 1974..! MILITARY OCCUPIED AREAS..! the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties..! PLEASE we expect from you people to RESPECT that..! About , your people , " with their blood ..spread ,and tears all over the island "..! ..well, Right ,exactly .. is the story of us , the Greek Cypriots..! ..your people , through their t o.TMT , really ..playing with the life's of all CYPRIOTS..! Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots as well..! The nation of Turkey played it's dirty games against our common country CYPRUS ,since 1958.! Through ,you , our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots..! A minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state. ( for about the rules/ functions ).. And yet ,they blew them up following instructions from Turkey..! They actually took the arms against their own state..! for proofs PLEASE search about.. " Rauf Denktash shocking confession "..! & " Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sensiden "..! just to inform you that ,the late Dervis Ali Kavazoglu , ..a HERO , been murdered by your people , ..just because he was saying the true.! THE TRUTH.!
Let's be frank and prompt to face with realities. So called Cyprus Republic was stalling because the president Macarios offered the Acritas Plan in order to ignore many legal and legitimate rights of Turkish Cypriots by the state's constitution. And remember the Supreme Court of Cyprus objected as well. Nobody is saying there wasnt a republic, yet but was. The moment Greek Cypriot Makarios decided to break up and change the rules, the republic collapsed. This is for sure. ''Desire to lead and rule Cyprus from Greece, caused and provoked Turks.'' This is not my line, an original text from BBC just comments after 20 July. Early morning news. Anyway; Even before the Turkish military intervention, (which was right and legitimate, Türkiye was a guarantee state of the Cyprus) it has already been accepted, there are two separate structures and administrative divisions in Cyprus. Greeks and Turks. Cyprus Republic for me existed barely for 3 years. From 1960 to 1963. That's it. Current version which has become a member of EU is only the Greek Cypriot Administration, which do not represents Turkish Cypriots. Turkish Republic North Cyprus should immediately recognized and two states of the island shall be closely and cooperative work in peace. This is the way. I know even my Greek friends visited TRNC and they have observed the state exists with all institutions. So it is absolutely waste of time. Recognise TRNC and stop unfair embargo agaist Turkish Cypriots. People who had to leave their houses and properties they can return back to TRNC, since I know there is a particular commision on this issue. I understand still some guys are extreme and super eager to make Cyprus Greece, well folks that will not happen. I think the best and sustainable solution is to make it two states. I am sure those states will leave very close and peacefully. Turkish Cypriot sportsmen can be able to join international organization, direct flights must start. And the UN Resolution must be revised or updated. Thank you.
Thanks you for your share. I think the unification of North Cyprus with Turkey is more realistic than with South Cyprus. North Cyprus and South Cyprus have different ethnic domination.
What is more important is the welfare of the turkish welfare not all the resolution around it. If not what happen to palestinean and bosnian will happen to the turkish cypriot
What do you mean..brow ! is a shame,for you people , even today to still think that way..! You people , really stay with the myths your leadership gives you still ! Is a shame , ..the north occupied part of our common state .. IS OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974..! The majority of all those are still our stolen lands end properties!
@@andrigeogiou8420 during that time turks was prosecuted by the greek. Of course their kin will help. If not the like of palestine and bosnia will happen.
aren't you a Turkish Cypriot..? ..So , you need to know more about.. The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common state. against CYPRUS through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots. A minority of 18% been found with rights like they were ,30%-40% , ( ..in the participation from them in the states ruling ). and yet , ..they played the games of Turkey ..! They blew them UP , following their instructions..! They actually took the arms against their own state.! ..SO what is your worries about...? if you understand the Turkish language . PLEASE search in you tube about this Turkish Cypriot journalist . ( a hero) .. been murdered by his own people just because he was saying he Truth..! The TRUTH..! " Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "..! & " Rauf Denktash shocking confession ".!
Greece has incredibly built up pretty strong diplomatic power over the years. Witness the TRNC and Macedonia naming issues. TRNC and Turkey were in the early 80s hoping that the west, being weary to a then rebellious Greece and more warming to a then pro west Turkey, would be sympathetic to the Turkish cause and recognize TRNC. Thanks to the Greek diplomatic power it did not happen, and even more unlikely to happen now with Greece power as strong as ever and Turkey becoming rebellious.
I think it was extremely politically naive for Rauf Denktash to have even tried to make trnc a legal state since it violates the U.N. Charter and the treaty of guarantee /treaty of establishment 1960. It was a waste of time that only got him and the tc's into more political trouble by prompting the UNSC to issue resoltions condemning the action/s.
Thank you. I completely agree. The unilateral Declaration of Independence was the greatest mistake the Turkish Cypriots ever made. Many senior figures even admit it. Who know how things might have been different had Denktash not done this and forced the UN Security Council to declare it illegal. It might even be in a Kosovo situation after the Annan Plan. But Resolution 541 has made that impossible. But Denktash was repeatedly warned not to do it!
I hope that one day the TRNC will be recognized and will rise to an equal status with the Greeks. Unfortunately, the Turkish side is always the victim. The only solution is two equal states.
Cyprus was until the 1960 under the British. In 15 January 1950, Greek Cypriots demanded with a referendum the union with Greece (as we are Greeks). 97% of Cyprus population voted for the Union. Britain illegally ignored this action by Greek Cypriots and after that, they were more strict with them. In 1st of April 1955 the war began by Greek Cypriots, in order to kick out England from Cyprus, and most importantly the Union with mother Greece. Turkish Cypriots were aware of this war, and they knew, if the Union with Greece will be completed, turkey will never have power in this Island long. (Turkish Cypriots were estimated the 15% of cyprus population). Although Greeks won this war, the British influence on the cypriot greek traitor politician Makarios, the union was not completed and instead the Republic of Cyprus was introduced. On 20th July, turkey invaded illegal to Cyprus and took the 37% of Cyprus. More than 300.000 refugees moved from their parent houses. On 15 November 1983 turkey in corporate with the turkish cypriots introduced a new state called the TRNC. This “state” is illegal and recognize only by turkey. TURKISH TROOPS OUT OF CYPRUS - FREEDOM TO CYPRUS WE DEMAND THE RETURN OF OUR LAND !!
Thanks. I have covered Cyprus extensively in other videos. I have also published a number of books on the Cyprus problem. global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& Indeed, I actually lived on the island for 8 years.
@@thetraveller1612 Did i said something that is incorrect? History is written, and can never be forgotten. The problem in Cyprus is not the Turkish-Cypriots, the problem in Cyprus is turkey which holds our land illegally, along with their army which is placed in our occupied land.
The problem is more that you came in and just decided to grandstand with a lot of the standard lines. It would have really been better if you had tried to engage with the material in the videos and other commenters in a more considered way. I really don’t need lectures on the Cyprus issue. (I have probably written more than anyone else on it!) And I always love to engage with people who want to discuss things sensibly and without resorting to the tired talking points. But shouting you want your land back and saying that you don’t have a problem with the Turkish Cypriots but only with Turkey does not actually win over Turkish Cypriots. It would be like a Turkish Cypriot saying that they hate Greeks, but Greek Cypriots are OK, and that all Turkish troops must stay. Many Greek Cypriots would feel unhappy about this. I understand how you feel, but sloganeering really doesn’t help take things forward. And I really do like to think that the channel can be a one of the few places on RUclips where considered discussion can occur. If you look, many people do write far longer comments here than elsewhere. So, please, by all means contribute, but do it in a way that helps promote dialogue. There are plenty of other places for Greek and Turkish Cypriots to shout slogans at each other.
@@JamesKerLindsay I never said that I hate turkish and I didn’t “shout” or I offended you. I just stated that the main problem in Cyprus is turkey that has illegally invaded in 1974. And since then they are holding our land, our houses, our hope to return. It looks like that you were benefited from this situation like the majority of british people (go to our occupied land and benefitted cheap holidays)
Totally a bunch of inaccuracies and rather biases. Real countries and communities do decorate “independence” while under military occupation and certainly did not take the occupying Turkish forces “by surprise”! In fact these occupation has isolated the Turkish Cypriot community.
Thanks. I’m not sure what your exact points of disagreement were. I have worked on the Cyprus Problem for many years and have written extensively on it. Seven books, including this: global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I’d be keen to know why you think it is inaccurate?
@@JamesKerLindsay So you are saying that the turkish government doesn't control the TRNC? And that they declared independence without their agreement? Makes no sense. the TRNC is just a puppet state of Turkey. They decide what happens there, much to the anger of Turkish cypriots, who are now actually a minority in the north cyprus due to the settlement of Turks after the invasion.
You must be jocking..! The north part of the island is a MILITARY OCCUPIED AREA..! is occupied by Turkey since 1974..! The majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties..! in our days ,just their military put people in costume's just for to play political games..! Can you understand the difference..? D'r..! it was only last summer ,that a Turk Mafia leader , blaming the Turkey's primynister , .. saying that they had an agreement about the occupied areas of Cyprus ,to becomes a DRUG dealers base a and a money laundering area..
The only sustainable solution is immediate recognition of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Either internationally recognized or no Turkish Cypriots are independent for almost 50 years. Before judging Turkish people in the island it is better to check what kind of problems and attacks caused a division. UN decisions for Cyprus are obsolete and have no use for people. Members of UN Security Council especially Russia must revise its policy against TRNC.
I was born a refugee after the brutal invasion of 1974. We are still waiting to return to our homelands but Turkish foreign policy makes it very difficult. Sadly, there can be no peace with Turkey as has been proven time and time again in the past.
The first refugees were the Turkish Cypriots in the 60s driven by the GCs desire to unite with Greece and violently ethnically cleanse the Turkish Cypriots. Period.
@@thetraveller1612 TCs were influenced into voluntarily moving to the enclaves by the British and the Turks. The Turks had already started sending arms to Cyprus from the 50s.
I wonder if it could work if they weren't greedy and gave them like half the territory back. Actually, normally you get rid of roaches, but the roaches wear business suits now. Eh.
If there was no turkish army operation to cyprus, turks would be forced to leave island. *there are no turks in other greek islands and greece but during the ottoman there were thousand of turks.
@@twistedmuppet2464 nobody murdered them, there are millions if not all, people in Turkey with some kind of greek or roman ancestry, people assimilated got muslim (not muslim myself), or adapted in some ways, i can bet my head on, every turkish people have at least some greek ancestry!
The UDI of the TRNC actually triggered the colonization of Northern Cyprus by Turkish Anatolian settlers, whose culture is very different to the Cypriot Turks. Northern Cyprus nowadays has become a semi-Erdoganesque colony, where the Turkish Cypriots have become a minority in their own country. These colonists bring a culture that is much more conservative and islamic than the relatively liberal culture that is more pronounced in Greece, Cyprus and the Western part of Turkey. This is not independence: It's total dependence from Turkey. That is why this declaration was so disastrous.
Well The north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974! MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA. ! The majority of all those are still our stolen lands end properties..! PLEASE we expect from you people to RESPECT that....
@@JamesKerLindsay Its inhabitants are greeks so cyprus is greek even if the british forced for the island's independence and completely disregarded the will of Cypriots for union with greece. So, considering the fact that you are british I find your comment extremely disturbing.
@@JamesKerLindsay Then you shouldn't lecture other people on their own country especially after your country's involvement in this whole mess. And my comment is far from a lecture.
@@gilpaubelid3780 Clearly you do need some lectures as you don’t know your history as well as you think you do. It was Greece and Turkey that decided Cypriot independence, not Britain. Anyway, here’s a book that might be able to help www.goodreads.com/book/show/12496784-the-cyprus-problem
Thanks Unal, but you have to see this in the context of the time the decision was taken to admit Cyprus. Denktash was the TC leader and he had made it clear over many decades that he wasn’t interested in a settlement. It was against this backdrop that the EU made the decision to accept Cyprus as a member. The problem was that once the agreement had been signed and ratified there was no reason for Papadopoulos to take the Annan Plan. This should have been thought about. But the problem is that everyone was so focused on Denktash that they didn’t consider the GC side of the story. So, yes the TCs are in weak position. But they only have Denktash to blame. (And I don’t say this as someone who disliked Denktash. I disagreed with his politics, but every time I ever met him I liked him enormously. He was actually very funny in person and fascinating to talk to. But he was not interested in a settlement. Please do remember that.)
@@JamesKerLindsay I thought the Annan plan supported by the EU and the rest of the world was negotiated by Papadopoulos and Talat at the time, Denktas was not part of the negotiations as he was sidelined by Ankara. I believe the facts to be that it was illegal for Cyprus to enter the EU where Greece and Turkey were not Members, Turkey of which is not a member. Also the EU went against their own rules in allowing a divided country into its fold. Thirdly, it is known that Greece blackmailed the enlargement process by effectively blocking it if Greek Cyprus was not admitted. Finally the EU admitted that the Greek Cypriots duped them when they proved the Annan plan was negotiated in bad faith following the Greek Cypriots no campaign. On balance the Greek Cypriots entry into the EU was rotten and should never have been allowed. What we do know is that their membership has further complicated a possible solution by adding more weight behind the Greek Cypriots.
Keep in mind that Turkish Cypriots are legally allowed to have an ID and passport of the Republic of Cyprus. Which means that they are also European citizens. So when Cyprus joined the EU, it joined as the whole island and the EU recognized all citizens including Turkish Cypriots as European citizens.
@@UNAL0504 tf are you talking about? I said they own ids and they are European citizens. What real world are u talking about? An average Turkish Cypriot has a Turkish ID and passport , a Cypriot ID and passport and because they own a Cypriot ID it automatically makes them European citizens which means they can travel anywhere in Europe just by showing their Cypriot ID just like every European citizen. What real world are u talking about?
I think you are missing the only important point about this "why" question.. Simple reason is Turkey doesn't want its Northern Cyprus' recognition as an independent state. Otherwise, Turkey can easily make its allies like Azerbaijan, Qatar, Somalia, Libya, to recognize TRNC in a day... Pakistan, and every Turkic nation would recognize it in the following month.. Then muslim world, then put political pressures to former allies like US and potential new allies like Russia to get one of them recognize it. But no.. This present situation makes Northern Cyprus entirely dependent on Turkish support. In other words, a puppet state of Turkey.. Turkey can build naval ports or airbases at will, make military drills at will. Tomorrow Turkey may want to transfer S-400 battery there and no one can do anything about this.. This situation serves Turkey a lot more than an independent state; which may say "no" at some point. While sorry a** excuse is stopping the "occupation" as they label it, UN actually promotes uncontested Turkish rule in the island. Since Greeks refused unification, TRNC independence should have been recognized... They were the ones faced Greek coup. They were the ones risked annexation to ethnically opposing state. They were the ones killed for the second time in the hands of Greeks. They still accepted Annan's UN unification plan and Greeks refused it. 40 years later, UN keeps torturing those people for no good reason. I HIGHLY doubt things would have been same if Turks made the coup, tried annexation with Turkey, then massacred Greeks (for the a second time in 10 years). Then Greece invaded the islands to save Greeks and Greek side declared independence. Then accepted unification only to be refused by Turks, would not the EU states recognize that greek state? An impossible proposition... Speaks highly of what values of these civilized states uphold...
As turkish I am fine with its unification as long as both communities are accepted by each other. if not... 2 small countries are just fine sadly 1 of them is literally not recognized. Greeks say its their own land but... by that logic we should better pack our backs and return to steppes XD no one can deny there are turkish people living there and it was fine under greek goverment... but they did. As someone not fond of our past I also ask what was the other option? Even europe ignored it since there was a possibilty of cyprus siding with USSR back in day. lets be honest, Greeks at island obviously pointed out they dont want turks to be there and they are not talking about soldiers but normal citizens and they proven it by while turks being ok with reunification greeks dont what should happen right now is they either form a federal goverment, united cyprus with 2 states that govern themselves for easier transport and trade or they remain seperated and become allies of each other. But as long as 1 reject the other both will only suffer
@@mehmetmehmet4277 Cyprus is Greek because Greeks are there.Where do you think they came from? 😂😂😂 turks came from Mongolia 🇲🇳 Cypriots came from Greece
In hindsight Cyprus should of just remained as a British protectorate. Greece and Turkey had too much skin in the game to respect independent Cyprus. Uk just wanted a conveniently located airfield.
Existing is not the same as having much of an existence. You may have gone there from the UK, but many young TCs have left and are leaving. And don’t believe the stuff being said about gaining recognition. It’s not going to happen. Apart from Resolution 541, no country is going to antagonise the EU by doing this. It isn’t worth it. The RoC will hold up any future agreements. Moreover, the more hardline the TC leader, the harder it is for the TRNC to be accepted. Believe me, I’ve been working on Cyprus for 30 years. (7 published books on the issue.) Either Tatar goes back to the table, or the TRNC remains stuck - or annexed by Turkey. The best hope for the TCs is reunification. The best option for the GCs is the same.
@@JamesKerLindsay The north is a sovereign country, the unification failed under Annan. The north will not find a Turkish minority among Greeks on the island. The south has no right to represent the whole island. If everyone has good intentions for a solution then we have to start accepting the facts that the north is a state.
The north part of Cyprus is OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974 . MILITARY OCCUPIED! ..the majority of ALL THOSE ARE OUR STOLEN PROPERTIES! ..HOW you people still living like this ? like nothing happens ! ..WE MUST ALL LOOK for JUSTICE SOLUTION ! the island should be UNITED again. Your politicians, and the elite around them DON'T WANT SOLUTION . Most probably they're huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our homes. hiding behind Turkeys arms asking for more and MORE . Buck at 60s .. with the beginning of our common REPUBLIC , you had ..as a minority of 18%.. rights like you were 30%-40% and yet you " blow them UP" .. Now , ..what do you want ? 50%-50% .. ! is ridiculous..demanding this ...you should know that ..NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES ! .. what is it this ..? .. you people act like ..THIEFS !
Honestly why not sit Greece and Turkey down and agree to a permanent partition with 2 separate nations on Cyprus? I think the Turks are getting kicked in the balls on this matter.
Turkey conquered Cyprus at year 1571 , since that time Anatolia oriented Turkish Cypriots are living at Cyprus. Gerek Cypriots know this well , thats why Gerek oriented Cypriots and Turkish oriented Cypriots established 1960 government together, after riots happened against last UK emperialism. However Greek government refused the situation send troops to Cyprus . They finished Makarios Government . Than Greeks started to kill Turkish oriented Cyprus citizens. Greek Cyprus nationalist radical groups called EOKA helped them . Finally to protect Turkish oriented Cypriots Turkish government sent troops to Cyprus. Thats the situation. İnstead UN recognised Greek oriented Cypriots at government. Thats not fair. So if anybody expect gas is only right to Greek Cypriots its the part that we will argue , fight.
You are misinformed my friend. Parts of what you said is true but the majority is inaccuracies but go ahead and believe what you like. I understand that you are from north Cyprus. I will only comment on your last sentence. The gas belongs to the Greek/Cypriots and the Turkish/Cypriots. It does not belong to Turkey. Turkey does not give a fuck about Turkish/Cypriots, they never did. They are only looking after their interests. Just like Greece does not give a fuck about Greek/Cypriots. When you all wake up and understand this, the island will stand a chance.
Well I'm afraid you are telling the story the wrong way...! Brow..! The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our country CYPRUS since 1958! Through your community , ! Turkish Cypriots , . A minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state at early 60 's ... Yet ,they blew them UP following instructions from Turkey..... TAKSIM plans..! TMT.! our compatriots Turkish Cypriots they actually took the arms against their own state.... for proofs PLEASE search about.. " Rauf Denktash shocking confession ".! & " Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "!
Sorry, but I have to ask: what is it with Greek Cypriots and this really strange punctuation. You are the second or third one I have seen doing this. (Or the same one who was banned?) It really is odd. And, forgive me for being direct, but it also makes you look a little deranged. You would make a far better point if you just wrote normally.
@@JamesKerLindsay mr.James..! I'm just a taxi driver..! I know well of what happened to my country CYPRUS..! this is my level in the English language..! I just want in a few words to give as much informations I can give.... ALL the BEST ..! whenever you'll be found yourself on the island.. I "own" you a ..souvlaki with beer ..! BROW . .. keep doing your right ..work ! ALL the BEST
..I never gonna say that ..we the Greek Cypriots were angels..! ... Bud , knowing that I lost my village , ..our family house.. the half of my country , just because some people wanted to satisfy Turkey... ( through Greece , to develop the British plans for...the island to be divided.... This is something I will never except it.....! NEVER EVER ....!
So Tell me if you like... Do you know that the north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974.? MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA..! the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties
@@andrigeogiou8420 The Turkish Cypriots are free and safe from Greek brutality and oppression .Who did it belong to before the British and before that the Ottomans .
" brutality and oppression . " ..of the Greek Cypriots ! are you a teenager..? ..your community was a .".paine in the ass " for us Greek Cypriots ...! Your community actually , even if as a minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state ..at early 60's ..! Yet , you blew them UP following instructions from Turkey....! remember....? Do you know anything about..? ..well I'll give you .. people from your kind to inform you better . PLEASE search about. " Rauf Denktash shocking confession "..! & " Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde ".! ..the second one ..was a Turkish Cypriot journalist , a hero..! been murdered by your people just because he was saying the truth...! The truth .! ..bro.! Can you believe it. !
Come on now .. Brow.. The north part of Cyprus, is occupied by Turkey since 1974 MILITARY OCCUPATION The majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties. You all have this illusion, .that good God bless you, ..giving you our homes .. STOLEN LANDS ! Can you understand this
Have to ask: are you Turkish or Turkish Cypriot? In my experience, it tends to be mainland Turks who take this sort of view. Recognition matters when you have a passport few countries will accept, football teams that can’t play internationally, universities that can’t form international cooperation, etc. Easy to say “Lol, who cares about global recognition”. But in truth it does matter. I stand by my point, the TCs did themselves no favours by unilaterally declaring independence.
@@JamesKerLindsay okay, idk where to start but here we go, 1- i am not a mainland turk nor recognize myself as "Turkish cypriot" i am just, cypriot. 2- it takes literally less than an hour to cross to Greek side, get a "republic of cyprus" passport and here you go, individual global recognition. 3- "universities are not globally recognized" this statement is wrong. İn 2004 Turkish side said yes to Annan plan but Greek side said no, and UN decided that an agreement would not be reached if both sides are economically levelled. The commercial and educational bans to north cyprus then were cancelled. Some of my friends after graduating from EMU(our oldest University and golabally recognized :)) did their masters degree in your school sir. So you sould be a bit ashamed for not knowing that i guess. 4- As a British you should be the last to talk about our problem as British started this mess in the first place. 5- have you ever been to north cyprus? If not please come visit and see how much shit we give about "global recognition"
Thanks. I think you’ll find that I know a little bit about Cyprus. I lived on the island for many years. I wrote my doctoral thesis on Cyprus. I have published 7 or 8 books on Cyprus and the Cyprus Problem, including on recognition issues, including this global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I’ve also served as an advisor to the UN and various governments. Seriously, on Cyprus, I think it is safe to say that I really do know something about it! 😉😀
I think you’ll find that actually Northern Cyprus is recognised internationally by every member state of the UN. De facto. And it is not a “breakaway territory” of any country. From the titular claim to the very get-go this video is loaded with baseless untruths that I dare say border being downright dishonest and misleading.
Sorry. But thus is utterly ridiculous. I’m not sure what Cyprus issue you’re following, but it’s certainly not the one I’ve followed for 30 years, did my PhD on, and written 7 books on! global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=us&lang=en& Seriously, this is a laughably silly comment in every way. 🙂
@UCVEXB3T_wtoUp3AA9yfWUsA Seriously, this is ridiculous. I. have. Published. Seven. Books. On. Cyprus! I have written my doctoral thesis on the issue. I have advised the UN and the British Government on it. I have lived there. And I co-edited the main academic journal on Cyprus. I am also an accepted authority on the subject of state recognition. I can assure you that if you had done any serious research on Cyprus, you would know exactly who I am! (I know this sounds arrogant, but after an entire career spent working on Cyprus, and in the face of obvious nonsense, I’ve earned the right.) So, I don’t believe you have written anything serious on it, as you claim. And certainly not an MPhil!
@UCVEXB3T_wtoUp3AA9yfWUsA Seriously, this is ridiculous. I. have. Published. Seven. Books. On. Cyprus! I have written my doctoral thesis on the issue. I have advised the UN and the British Government on it. I have lived there. And I co-edited the main academic journal on Cyprus. I am also an accepted authority on the subject of state recognition. academic.oup.com/book/25433 (Published by Oxford University Press.) I can assure you that if you had done any serious research on Cyprus, you would know exactly who I am! (I know this sounds arrogant, but after an entire career spent working on Cyprus, and in the face of obvious nonsense, I’ve earned the right.) So, I don’t believe you have written anything serious on it, as you claim. And certainly not an MPhil!
@@JamesKerLindsay (1) I know who you are very well, as well as everything you’re describing yourself to be, (2) provide me with an email address and I will send you my MPhil certificate in privacy, (3) again, trying to compare yourself as a means of dismissing my contributions as “ridiculous” is meaningless, and again it’s a personal attack which I’ll have to continue ignoring, but respond positively and I will be happy to share some of my insights into the Cyprus Problem with you. And I could very well be a “nobody” as you’re trying to paint it, let’s give you that, and you know what, I wouldn’t mind that at all, I don’t need to prove myself to anyone, but again, you have lived there, that doesn’t mean you know it. Or maybe you can go to the TRNC-GCASC border and also tell me that doesn’t exist? The treaties? Constitution? None of that exists either? All the UN reports? Cross-verified observations and articles from scores of independent journalists and reporters that documented everything? Non-existent? The UNFICYP and what mandated them? The UNSC meetings and resolutions? Correspondence between various heads of state? The sudden, violent and illegal seizure of power by the Greeks in 1963? That never happened? The various Turkish Cypriot administrations that existed following? All the mass graves that were dug up in the presence of the UN & co.? They don’t exist either? An attempted genocide committed pursuant to numerous written plans i.e. Gronthos, Akritas, Aphrodite, Iphestos, and that have all been cross-verified and authenticated by multiple strong reliable sources. Is that all “ridiculous”? Is that what you’re suggesting?
This is a video I had wanted to tackle for a long time. I have rarely hidden my view that I believe that the 1983 Turkish Cypriot unilateral declaration of independence was a mistake. Many Turkish Cypriots have often said the same to me. So, here is the story of how it happened, and why the international reaction to the creation of the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' was as strong as it was. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on this?
Thanks for watching. If you found this video useful, please do consider giving it a 'Like' and sharing it with others who might be interested. And do all consider subscribing. It helps the channel to grow! Much appreciated!
@Universal Space Expeditioner always bean,Greek-nobody in the world recognised Turkis Cyprus illegal occupation of ....
@@draganserdar9999 especially the south side
Even if the international community has acted judiciously under this particular set of circumstances, it obviously remains the case that this same "community" of self-interested governments will always have the potential to behave either unwisely or with malevolence toward some other group's unilateral declaration of independence. Therefore, IMO, the question of whether or not international recognition is an essential element of national sovereignty / legitimacy remains. Of course, I understand that this video wasn't meant to address this topic definitively one way or the other.
@@draganserdar9999 take a DNA test you are full Greek just been fed lies by your parents 😂
@@greekguy1982 ☆☆☆ ☆☆
I might be the only turkish Cypriot who has watched this video since we have a very small population. In my opinion one of the reasons for the failure of anything regarding the reunification of the island is due to both the ROC's and the TRNC's governments thinking only about the short term consequences of a unification. It also doesn't help that the average Greek Cypriot earns around twice as much as the average turkish Cypriot in the north which could be a burden on the economy if a unification ever takes place. A great example for this would be the economic disparities between east and west Germany even though it's been 30 plus years since the unification. Sadly the income gap between the north and south is widening even more now due to how much value the turkish lira has lost since the last 3 years. Also the newly elected leader of the TRNC wants to legitimize a new independent TRNC which makes a unification seem even less likely.
Anyways I hope the island can reunite in the future and that we the younger generation do not repeat the mistakes that our ancestors made.
Love and peace.
Thanks. I would hope that more Turkish Cypriots have watched it! :-) It was a fascinating story. I'm guessing you are relatively young? Did you remember Denktash? I met him on a number of occasions. (My family has actually lived in Cyprus for 30 years and I have written many books on the island, its politics and the division.) The decision to declare independence in 1983 was an utter disaster for the Turkish Cypriots. I suspect they would be in a very different place todays had that not happened. And yet Denktash was repeatedly warned not to do it. Anyway, I would like to share your optimism about the future and the young. But I'm not convinced. I hear more and more say that they think division is the best option. Even in 2004, young Greek Cypriots were more likely to vote against unification than older people! Meanwhile, the current Turkish Cypriot administration is taking a very hard line position on a settlement. Sadly, for all these reasons, I don't think the island has the luxury of much more time to decide on reunification.
@@JamesKerLindsay Agreed even though I took an optimistic stance realistically the chance of any kind of agreement being made between the two sides seems slim. I didn't see denktaş in person although my parents did. I remember seeing him on tv during live broadcasts and interviews when I was a kid.
Thanks for the reply.
i watched it too
but since the EU recognizes all of the island as part of the EU, dont you get structural funds?
If you dont, then reunion with the republic of cyprus would be the door for EU membership and therefor bringing tourism and those structural founds to bridge the gap between the cyprusses
Why do you want Cyprus to reunite? From what the video says Cyprus doesn't exactly want to reunite either. Shouldn't you guys be aiming for UN recognition?
Video failed to mention EU, UK and USA promised to lift or ease sanctions immediately after failed referendum in 2004 and none of them kept their promises. Instead USA lifted arms embargo to southern Cyprus recently.
“It all started in 1960” what about the divide and rule policy implemented during colonial rule?
Prof Ker-Lindsay, Looking forward to your analysis of Kashmir and the current dynamics between India and Pakistan.
Thanks a lot. Yes, I am certainly hoping to tackle this soon.
Hi would you please do a video on north of Ireland reunification thank you
@Rob well with the combinations of demographics and brexit, it may very well happen. With the sea border, the economic of the six counties are already becoming more dependent on Dublin
As a Turkish Cypriot with great knowledge on the subject I found this video very informative and clear, so thank you for that.
However, I have to say, the world continues bash and hate on the Turkish Cypriots decision to create an independent state in 1983, yet never pays any attention to the actions of Makarios in 1963. It was the Greek Cypriot administration who first destroyed the Republic of Cyprus. The 1960 constitution was ripped apart in 1963 with the events of bloody Christmas. No effort was put in place to correct these mistakes. The republic of Cyprus has remained under full Greek Cypriot control ever since.
The decision to make TRNC independent was 17 years after the constitution of 1960 was already destroyed. The Turkish Cypriots were left with no other choice. They has no representation or recognition within their homeland. The so-called government promoted violence and ENOSIS (union with Greece). Even with that being said, the Greek Cypriots refuse to negotiate with us to this day!
Since 1968 there has been 17 series of talks. 15 of which have been rejected by the Greek Cypriot administration. Lets not even mention the Annan Plan & Crans Montana.
We must stop this bashing of Turkey & TRNC’s decision of independence when the Turkish Cypriots were left with no other choice. That is why Tatar strives for a two state solution today because Greek Cypriot leadership has maintained the status quo for 52 years.
Hi Eren, thanks so much for the comment. As it happens, I know Cyprus really well. I lived there for eight years! And I actually did my PhD on the events of 1963-64. Since then, I’ve published a lot on the various talks. (Interestingly, I was actually a part of the British delegation at the talks in Crans Montana in 2017!) It is such a tragic situation, with mistakes made by all sides. I know the GCs have made mistakes, but it’s also important to remember that Denktash did as well. I actually made a video about the Declaration of Independence in 1983. This was a huge mistake in my view. (I say this as someone who met Denktash many times and actually liked him enormously at a personal level. He was actually incredibly funny one-to-one - as long as you weren’t his political enemy!) It has actually made things much harder for the Turkish Cypriots over the years. But how do feel about prospects for new talks?
@@JamesKerLindsay ..hullo ..! Well , I must say that ..the dream of ENOSIS finished with the establishment of our common republic of Cyprus been established in 1960 . Turkey had other plans about the island...so creating the terror organisation T.M.T ( after a bomb been puted in the Turkeys embassy in Nicosia)..threating and killing Turkish cypriots( look for 1. Ali Dervis kavazoglou kendi sensinden / 2 . the unfortunate story with the "family in the bathroom " ).. manage to isolate them in "ghettos " ! .Thing's started from December 1963 ... ! Our compatriots Turkish cypriots, a minority of 18% been found with rights in the ruling of our state like they were 30%-40% and yet they" blow them up ."..From 1963 till 1967 our compatriots giving arm troubles to our common state. We even had in August 1964 , the troubles in ERENGOY/KOKKINA..and Turkey's air force bombing our villages around..2 of them even with NAPALM BOMBS . threating us not to clear..and that last village from the GANGSTERS they was fighting against us. ( against OUR COMMON STATE ) ..all this time , we had killings and missings persons on both sides and a WALL of hate between our 2 communities ..SO , since until 1967 the Turkeys plan TAKSIM NEVER manage to be established .. America ( KISSINGER), England ..through NATO still wanted to satisfy Turkey's ambitions ..and trough GREECE ..created the terror organisation EOKA-B .( playing with our EXPECTATIONS ).threating and killing us ! Greek cypriots in the name of ENOSIS .. manage ( after the coup been Dane in July 1974)..to OPEN the doors and HELP Turkey to invade 5 days later and STEAL almost the half of the island....// like I wrote above ..PLEASE search in you tupe about "Rauf Denktash's shocking confession" ..read and the comments below...THE TRUTH is there.. ..TODAY , ..we have the Turkish cypriots politicians and the elite around them not to want a JUSTICE SOLUTION .. most probably , they are very huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our STOLEN PROPERTIES , ..hiding behind Turkeys arms asking for more and MORE .. even if WE ALL KNOW that NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES . ..! // and of course ..TURKEY ..who wants to ..EAT ALL the island !
..my friend ..I actually wrote this above .. for you ..! in few words .. ! What is the mutter with you people ..! You learn the story in a wrong way !
@Ali Al-Yunani ..BECAUSE ...the island SHOULD BE UNITED ..!
..WORLD , do NOT EXCEPT ..states to "crow up" like .. you Turkish cypriots want here ( a new state on STOLEN PROPERTIES ). ! ..there are MANY states with minorities .. and this , if happens in Cyprus ..ALL the world will be in troubles ..! ( imagine Turkey it self , ..)
In the mess of the Cyprus story is one nugget of hope; Cyprus has, through force "unscrambled" the omelette. Two ethic groups physically separated, living on their own separate territory. Few ethnic conflicts around the world are so blessed. If both sides do not wish to live together, why force it? The RoC should agree to to recognize the TRNC as an independent state, and Turkey should be forced to make financial reparations to the greek Cypriots who lost property in the north, and RoC should do the same for Turkish Cypriots who were forced to leave the south. Turkey should repatriate its citizens living in TRNC unless the TRNC wishes to naturalize them. Better to have two neighbours with a big strong fence demarcating their respective properties, rather than forcing them into a condominium that will inevitably fail. Good luck to all.
Same "bless" goes for the Kurds too?
ONE CYPRUS👍🇨🇾
I am from Cyprus (and i am a greek speaking Cypriot, my parrents are refuges from Famagusta after the 74 invasion of Turkey).
Unfortunately i think that Great Britain played a role in the escalations later by dividing Cyprus between Turkish speaking population and Greek speaking population from 1914 onwards.
In order to gain independence Greek speaking Cypriots in 1959 approved fewer positions in key places and did not even dicide for their own constidution etc. Of course that pushed back in 1963 and unofficially the people of the country divided in two, according to their cultural beliefs. The independence from Great Britain at 1960, was "at all cost independence".
Turkey invaded Cyprus in order to "help" that minority of the Turkish speaking population, but in the end the came and stayed. Denktash was a leader nevertheless. I totally desagree with his actions but in the end he was clever and knew how to manipulate the mases.
I am not saying that Turkey should not have come. I am saying that they did not had the right to oppress the people who lived at the northen part of the country for rediculous 40+ years...
I really hope for a reunification of the island. I hope that my family can move back to Famagusta. I hope at least that the northen part accept my fathers attempt to move on there. But i have no faith in our politics any more...
Thank you so much for your video, it was interesting and informative. Please continue, I fold in love with your channel!
Yeia sou, Mano. S’efcharisto para poly. Emeina sti Kypro 8 chronia. Kai enas adelfos kai i adelfi mou menoun sti Lefkosia. Tin agapo Kypro! Cyprus has certainly had a very difficult history. Lots of blame to go around, sadly. And yes, the UK has done many things wrong, especially in the 50s. However, as I showed in the video, since then I do think it has actually played an important role in stopping further division and promoting unification. And thank you so much for the really kind words about the channel. It means a lot. I hope all is well with you and that things are OK on the island. I miss it very much. Hopefully, I’ll be able to visit again before too long.
@@JamesKerLindsay Hey!! Your Greek are excellent! I know that now. We can only blame ourselves unfortunately from now on... I hope you can revisit Cyprus again, maybe in a join government!
Thanks. So looking forward to making it back to Cyprus soon. Keep well. And thanks again for the comments.
Partially agreed, as a Turkish national.
If the island of Cyprus is united wll the Greeks there want to umite with Greece again?
Northern Cyprus never declared independence. It was never given a choice. It was invaded by Turkey in 1974 and still is an occupied area, recognized by no other country.
:D :D :D
@@BurcuGünay-e6t No EU membership? 😭😂😭😂
I am relatively new to this channel but I love your videos. Since the Greek Government wanted to force union with Cyprus what do you think shoiuld have been Turkey's response. Should they have just let it happen?
Thanks so much Robert. I appreciate the kind words. I’ve done a lot of work on Cyprus. (I lived there for eight years and it’s the conflict I worked on most over my career.) My view is that the first Turkish invasion was just used under the terms if the Treaty of Guarantee and international law more generally as there was a very good chance that the Greek military junta was about to annex Cyprus. However, the second invasion was done in bad faith and clearly has no intention of trying to return to the status quo ante, as required. So, I sit between the two positions. The invasion was not illegal to start with, but has become an illegal occupation. And the 1983 UDI was completely contrary to international law. (And was the biggest mistake the Turkish Cypriots made.) By the way, if you’re interested in Cyprus do keep an eye out. I hope to do something on this again soon.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you as I basically have the same opinions but wanted to hear from someone who was more knowledgable
@@JamesKerLindsay
....SO RIGHT..!
you are so right ..Mr James.!
at least ,someone like you , is also fighting for justice on this island..!
As Cypriots , . WE THANK . sir..!
Thanks for these Cyprus videos, I am a Turkish Cypriot. I find the idea of unification very unrealistic and I wonder what will happen in next 50 years. I think Turkey has a different plan for Cyprus, Azerbaijani officials visited Cyprus recently and Pakistani officails are planning to visit which is unusual. I wonder if Turkey is planning to push for recognition.
Thanks. Very good points about Azerbaijan and Pakistan. It is interesting to see what is happening. But I still think that reunification is the best option for both sides. Division means a hard border between the communities. The Greek Cypriots in the EU and the Turkish Cypriots outside. This effectively means integration with Turkey. I really don’t think that’s what most TCs want. (And I should mention that I have spent 30 years working on Cyprus and lived on the island for 8 years. This is something very personal to me.)
Well , the nation of Turkey played dirty games against my country CYPRUS since..1958.. through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots a minority of. 18%.., been found with RIGHTS like they was ..30%-40% with the establishment of OUR COMMON REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS at early..60s , and yet they blow them UP following instructions from Turkey..
TODAY..
our compatriots Turkish Cypriots,they past the dimant for equality..( the 18% to be equal with the 82%)..and they are asking for a state on OUR STOLEN PROPERTIES..!
AGAIN TURKEY.
through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots is trying to put a hand on the islands.. NATURAL SOURCES..!
..The way they are going..( the Turks)..one day they gonna ask from US CYPRIOTS to leave from our country..
for proofs PLEASE search in you tube about..1/..". Rauf Denktash's shocking confession"..
read and ALL the comments below THE TRUTH IS THERE..
2/.." Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sesinden"..
a Turkish Cypriot journalist been merdered just because he was saying the TRUTH
@@andrigeogiou8420 The only dirty games were played by Makarios III who created and supported a Terror Organization called EOKA.
@@thekraken1173 .. Turkish Cypriots should return back to our common state ! amd even apologize about all those arm troubles they gave to our common state.
otherwise ..
SOON or LATER ..
a Turk settler will be in control for the occupies ..!and you will be a minority again between them ( settler's)..
..already ,
115.000 of yours hold the CYPRUS " ID's"..
80.000 of yours hold a CYPRUS PASSPORTS !
..already , a Turkish Cypriot is a member of the EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT..! been elected by Greek cypriots votes..!
..WAKE UP ..!
..you will return even with less Rights than you had at early 60s !
After all ,you are just a minority of 18%
@@andrigeogiou8420Everybody are already wake up. We don’t want to be a single state with killers who don’t want to give us rights.
In the occupied north part of Cyprus and following decades of colonisation by Turkey now the Turkish Cypriots are fewer than the new Turkish settlers from Anatolia. Also an occupying force of 40,000 Turkish soldiers is permanently based on the island.
Turkish Cypriots are majority in Northern Cyprus,also settlers dont have Turkish Cypriot citizenship,so controls are on the Turkish Cypriots to solve the issue,but more then 60 percent of them demands independence.
@@clgnugur1156 more Turkish Cypriots live in the UK then Cyprus
@@bigboyrambo2009 so what,also there are more Azerbaijanis in Iran than Azerbaijan
@@clgnugur1156 You said "Turkish Cypriots are majority in Northern Cyprus"
I correct you.
What does Azerbaijan who are a Persian people have to do with this?
@@bigboyrambo2009 iran’ın azerbaycan ilinde türkçe konuşulur
Sir why Turkey is not a part of European Union?
Well, that is a huge question! Not sure where to start. Anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe certainly plays its part. But there are also genuine concerns about its capacity to meet the demands of membership, especially as there has been some serious backsliding on democratic freedoms. It is a long and complex story.
@@JamesKerLindsay Could you make video about "why turkey is not a part of European Union?".
Turkey is not in Europe,to far from Europe
@@draganserdar9999 in fact, that’s not correct. If Turkey joined, its capital, Ankara, would not be the most eastern of EU capitals. Nicosia, the capital of Cyprus is further east. And would you argue Russia isn’t European. Let’s face it, when it comes to Europe, the idea of ‘continent’ is a construct. It is part of a broad Eurasian land mass.
@@JamesKerLindsay turkey want to join eu since eu form union,and turkey have dream,to be in Europe,but dream,can be dreamed for next many,many many years,.
Thank you for the video James. I have become very interested in Northern Cyprus since I did some genealogy research for my girlfriend's mother; I found out that her father (whose identity she didn't know) was a cousin of both Rauf and Aydin Denktas. It is strange to be connected to such a pivotal family
Please
Search in you tube about.
" Rauf Denktash's shocking confession ".!
&
" " Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sesinden "!
James will the latest effort to reunite Cyprus to one country and what is the issue preventing reunification of the Cyprus island.
Where to start!? Unfortunately, there aren’t any active talks for reunification at the moment. The last ones ended in 2017 following talks in Switzerland. It is not clear when new ones will get underway. As for issues, there are a lot of things that need to be addressed. However, the main ones are: what sort of federal government will the island have? What will happen to territory? (The Turkish Cypriots will need to return land to Greek Cypriot administration) And what will be the Security arrangements? Then there are other issues, such as his will the island be represented in the EU? What happens to Turkish settlers? All this could actually be solved relatively easily with political will. Sadly, this is in short supply.
still happy it exist and will
This was an amazing video & this is an amazing channel.
Thanks so much! Really appreciated.
Are you saying new nations can never be formed ?
No. I’m saying it is very difficult as states have created a system that fundamentally protects them from new entrants. Unilateral secession is really and truly disliked.
..bro
New nations can be established only with worlds principal's..!
The north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974.!
MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA. !
the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties.!
The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common country CYPRUS since 1958 ! Through your community.. actually..!
a minority of 18 % been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state at early 60's ..
Yet. ,that/ your kin .. blew them UP following instructions from Turkey.
. actually , they took the arms against their own state.
good video, recognition is really strange.
Isn’t it!? In this case, it was rather clear what was going to happen though. Yet, Denktash and Turkish Cypriot MPs went ahead with it.
Harold
People well just never allow territories to separate even if they were an actual burden on the country
Omar Al kayal So very true!
there are many universities there welcoming warmly the international students to come. with the low tuition fees and living costs, do you think it's a good choice? and if the whole republic is unrecognized, doesn't that mean the universities are unrecognized too? (I earned a scholarship there but still not sure if I should study in an unrecognized land, I am afraid it be like just studying 5 years in the NoWhere) 😅
Good point, im interested aswell.
Thanks for the video.I am planning to read your book on this issue as well.My question is TRNC was recognized by Turkey,and nowadays as we can see on many platforms that Armenians want the international community to recognize Artsakh.Even Armenia herself does not recognize it.What is the story behind it why does Armenia not recognize it first ?As far as i know recognition changes from state to state and could you make a video on recognition ?
Thank you so much, Vincent. Great questions. On the first question, the TRNC is still recognised by Turkey. But Turkey is the only country in the world that does recognise it. As for Artsakh, it was entirely unrecognised. Armenia didn’t even recognise it. I think this is because it would have gone against UN Security Council resolutions. There was some talk that Yerevan could have recognised it during the war as an act of remedial secession. (I have done a video on this.) However, this would have had no practical effect. Armenia was already doing all it could to help it. In any case, it makes little difference now. If Armenia were to recognise Artsakh now, it would only cause more problems. Instead, I think the focus should be on reaching a final settlement that will probably be based on some form of autonomy within Azerbaijan supported by close communications and cultural links with Armenia. I hope that clears things up a bit. Do let me know how you get on with the book.
Hey, that is the rocket league and sideswipe yter CoralCokes intro but great video.
UK made all these problems i tell you that. not Greeks or Turks.
I can see I’m going to be getting it from both sides! Greek Cypriots insist the UK has only ever helped the Turkish Cypriots and Turkey. However, as this shows, that’s really not the case. In any case, having watched the video, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on whether the Declaration of Independence was in fact a mistake. Denktash was repeatedly told what would happen, and yet still went ahead and did it!
zorbathegreek Thanks. I wondered what he was expecting too!? Part of me thinks that he knew what would happen, but just didn’t care! The interesting thing is that I genuinely think that Turkey never controlled Denktash as many believe. He really was incredible popular and influential in Turkey. Political figures really didn’t want to take him on. As one senior Turkish figure once told me, everyone lived in fear that if they went against him, he’d simply get on a plane and give some TV interviews and talks at universities. I went through the diplomatic archives on this story and I genuinely believe that Turkey didn’t want him to go ahead with the UDI. It really served no purpose for Ankara. It just gave them an added problem. I know that seems hard to believe. However, I met Denktash a few times. If there was one thing I was sure of, it was that he was nobody’s puppet. In fact, I think that why he went so nuts over the General Assembly resolution. It made it sound like it was all about Turkey rather than about him and the Turkish Cypriots! Anyway, it is a fascinating story. There was so much more I just couldn’t fit into a 10-15 minute video.
@@JamesKerLindsay , imo it was not a mistake. Ankara had no desire to relinquish northern occupied cyprus as they viewed it as a continuation of the greek ottoman war of 1821 throught to the balkan and first world war. Ankara's not so crypto ambition was not simply to stabilize the ottoman territorial decline but to actually reclaim lost territory irrespective of others having older claims than them.
Ankara has repeatedly stated it has no claims on cyprus as in the 1923 Lausanne treaty turkey renounced all claims on cyprus hence why they use the turkish cypriots aspirations and ambitions to further ankaras desires without violating past treaties untill they can do so without repercussions. Keep this in mind as you watch todays unfolding events such as turkeys intervention in syria, libya, armenia and elswhere. Also keep in mind the overt public statements of tayip erdogan on his greek visit last year where he stated turkeys desire to renegotiate the treaty particularly in regards to borders, ethnic minorities and the status quo in the agean.
Whilst digressing slightly to the topic of the anan plan, stating simply that the turks accepted and the greeks did not does not do justice to either the contents of the anan plan nor the realities and legalities. Imo having read the plan in its entirety it is obvious that kofi anan other than lending his name to it had nothing else to do with it. This topic in my opinion is a worthy issue for you to expand a video on.
As fir the rest of your work you have another subscriber added.
James, in some future video, if there's an opportunity, please say something about the effect of the UDI on the quality of life in the TRNC. I'm wondering how it affects things like life expectancy, infant mortality, cost of living, industrialization, quality of education, and prospects for the future. Are they living under siege? Or, to put it another way, how isolated is isolated? Is life worse than before 1983? Are residents there utterly dependent on Turkey?
Is life worse than before 1983? no, It is like one of turkish city. Are residents there utterly dependent on Turkey? yes, but in some cases better than GC, such as there is a water line from turkey to TC.
. Pork is not our thing bro I do eat it but kebap is LAMB and Just a little sidenote you guys are not secular you guys are way more religious.
This so called ''TRNC'' is not recognised internationally, so therefore, the Turkish Cypriots are worse off as they are internationally isolated. Also, remember that at the end of the day, Turkey is occupying the northern area of Cyprus since the invasion, and therefore backs this so called ''TRNC'', and there are more setlers (colonists) from Turkey in the north, than actual Turkish Cypriots. I have to disagree with James, I don't believe that Turkey was surprised at this declaration. In fact, I believe Denktash and Turkey planned this declaration in advance.
The north part of CYPRUS is OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974..!
MILITARY OCCUPIED AREA..!
TODAY..
just their military put people in costumes to play political games.
..it eas only last.August ,that a Turk ,mafia leader , blaming mr.Erdogan on TV ..saying about the OCCUPIED areas ,that they agree to become a ..DRUGS base snd .." money laundering "..area..
.
Hi James very interesting video and a very interesting argument of what would happen if a state was not declared. Few questions. (a) how did the Turkish army and Denktash portray themselves to their own people and abroad between 1974-1983? (B) you say there was a plan to annex in 1974. Any sources I can read further? (c) from things i have read in the past - the history of the Cypriot embassy in Turkey is an interesting story to add to the narrative
Why is it that those countries which have recognised the independence of Greece back in 1830 haven't done the same for the Turkish Cypriots? Why is it that when Greek separatists asking for independence were helped while Turks who have only asked for the same thing were not?
It was a completely different time in international relations. The rules and practices today were established after 1945.
@@JamesKerLindsay Your reply doesn't make any sense to me. As far as I know, Metternich saw the independence of Greece as a catastrophe and a major threat to the Concert of Europe. So the dichotomy that divides Greeks asking for self rule from Turks asking for the same thing is not the turn of the century. Secondly, the original target of Greek Cypriot terrorism was none other than the British governor of Cyprus. It would appear that you see nothing wrong with that but when the Turkish Cypriot community rejects Greek rule, you are making up excuses to defend the Greek cause. That can't be explained away by saying that the times were different because the gap separating 1960 and 1980 is only two decades. In any case, given that Metternich hated the idea of Greek independence, the same sensibilities existed in the previous century. Could you please think again and come up with a more satisfactory explanation for the discrepancy in your assessment of the Greek Cypriot cause and the Turkish Cypriot cause.
@@os360 The entire basis for independence and statehood under international law was completely different in the nineteenth century. There’s no comparison. I have an introductory book on statehood and secession coming out early next year. I cover it all there. But essentially the way new countries were accepted then is completely different from now. That’s why there is no comparison.
OK. Cyprus was entitled to independence as a colonial holding. That was not in question. The fact the Greek Cypriots fought for it is irrelevant. Britain had to give it up. But international law said that once countries become independent their territorial integrity is then protected. Almost every country in the world has minority communities. They want to safeguard their sovereignty. So they’ve decided that secession is only permitted with the permission of the ‘parent state’ - as the country the territory is trying to break away from is known. This is why Cyprus could become independent, but the Turkish Cypriots can’t. And the rules on decolonisation and territorial integrity only became enshrined in international law after 1945, that’s why earlier comparisons don’t work. Really, it is very simple - and none of this is disputed. That is why the Turkish Cypriot unilateral Declaration of Independence was condemned by the UN Security Council and why no country has ever recognised it. From an international legal perspective it is about as straightforward as they come!
@@JamesKerLindsay There is no difference, technically speaking, between a Greek minority living in the Ottoman Empire, one living in the British Empire or a Turkish minority living in a Greek-dominated Cyprus. Each case is a case of a minority that cannot get along with an internationally recognised government. If the Turks need to ask the permission of a Greek parent state (a latecomer founded by rebels as opposed to a venerable and historic institution), then surely the Greeks must have the permission of Turkey, and in the case of Cyprus, Britain. To argue otherwise means that the Greeks are somehow entitled more than the Turks and the British are.
Now, let's visit another part of the Balkans. When the Slavs rejected Turkish and German rule, was that alright with you? Presumably yes? And yet when the Croats reject Serbian rule, their aspirations were backed by Germany and Austria. On the other hand, for inexplicable reasons, the Serbs of Krajina were pressured to accept Croat rule. As for the Bosnians, only Turkey ever cared for the Bosnians. It is exactly the same problem, you see. Namely, double standards.
Speaking of international law, what is to be said of Greece's invasion of Crete, Macedonia and Salonika in 1912? Surely this invasion was a far bigger violation of international law than Turkey's intervention in Cyprus which was part and parcel of the Cyprus treaties signed by Makarios himself. What about the vandalisation of the Turkish cemetery of Salonika where Greece's fanatical regime uprooted Turkish tombstones from the cemetery and then used them as landfilling so that no trace of this cemetery remained? ISIS supporters drive bulldozers over their own father's graves, whereas Venizelos supporters have run roughshod over our fathers' graves. Which is the greater evil then? Salafism or Hellenism? If the ethnic cleansing of people of Turkish ethnicity or Muslim faith is acceptable, then why have you referred to exaggerated Armenian claims as the 'Armenian genocide' in your other video? What is the difference? Typical isn't it? You are making one set of rules for one party and another set of rules for the other. That is fine only if Turkey is the beneficiary, otherwise it doesn't sit well with the Turks who set great store by their honour and dignity. And by the way, I hope that after this discussion, it is easier to see why this generation of Turks have grown rather disdainful of their Cold War allies: observation of double standards and promotion of Turkey's enemies by those who profess to be Turkey's friends. Look for no other explanation.
When the GC except there part in what has happened in Cyprus then things can move forward .
Very well said!!
who said that they don't accept it?
We do,the things holding us back is corduption on the greek side and turkeys expantionist stance
@@georgek8499The truth is that Cyprus is not even a country. Anyone that reads the treaty of establishment can see that clearly
The Greeks do not except there war crimes and suffering of TCs from from 1955 till 1958 and from again from 1963 till 1974.
The Greeks always brush that part of history under the carpet and go with the narrative that it’s all turkeys fault because they invaded in 1974.
Do the Greeks know how many Greek Cypriots the Turks also saved from execution?
Around 25 percent of Greek Cypriots did not want nicos Sampson and e o k a and enosis. So the Greeks where killing there own people who had different ideas to the megali idea.
Thank god for turkey, then now and in the future.
Without turkey there would be no TRNC or Turks left in Cyprus.
Prof. James another fascinating and well explained piece. The Greek side never wanted an independent Cyprus, they wanted ENOSIS, to be part of mainland Greece. Their dreams of this never included the Turkish Cypriots who still to this day they see them as almost sub human. The atrocities committed by EOKA amounted to genocide. Crimes for which they have never been held accountable. Turkey did have a legal right to intervene. The Greek side may have lost the war but have certainly won the propaganda war. They have convinced the world that a Turkish invasion force just turned up one day without any justification and it is them who are the victims. There can never be a United island while the Greek side do not recognise the Turkish side as equals and that will never happen.
that's because the Turkish side isnt equals. they represent 18% of the population... not 50%. secondly just because there are a few nationalists does not mean that all of the population wanted union with Greece. this is how i know you are not Cypriot. Cypriots identify as Cypriot and we got along with Turks well very well. you spoke both Greek and Turkish dialect. you can blame the British for trying to split the country ( they did successfully) because they couldn't handle the uprising under British rule dictated ridiculous measures. today barely anyone wants union with Greece. they want their own country run by the people without illegal invaders and military interventions. the illegal north will never ever be recognized and for good reason it is illegally occupied by a foreign country. its exactly what the Russians are doing right now in Ukraine.
Well
The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common country ,since 1958 ! Through our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots. A minority of 18% , whom been found with.. over rights with the establishment of our common state. The Republic of Cyprus , at early 60 as , and yet ,they blew them up , following instructions from Turkey.!
They actually took the arms against their own state , heading ,for Turkey's ..TAKSIM plan as..!
Over rights , like they were 30%-40% ,as with their participation in the states rulings and functions , YET , they was blocking the progress plans of the states , ..!
TODAY ,
our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots , they past their dimant for equality , ( the 18%- to be equal with the 82% , like ..50%-50% )..
and they are asking for a state , on our stolen lands and properties..!
Again , TURKEY , through our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots is trying to put a hand , on the islands nature sources..!
way too biased views you should take off your Turkish propaganda glasses and do some research! MIT Turkish intelligence has had a lot of action down in cyprus. Especially the special war department as it was called formed in the late 40's 1947 t o1948 by NIHAT TERIM!!! Menderes the prime minister at that time asigned him Nihad Terim to find a solution to take over cyprus.....Nihad took the task but informed Menderes that Turkey had no chance to do anything on the island because it was not easy since the status quo id the island did not permit anything legal for the Tiarks to do! So Nihad Terim formulated the plan of enclaves for the Turks and Taksim also the armament of all the enclaves started from Kokkina and the closed city of famagusta that was the end of the cyprus republic as we knew it! The turks had TMT under denkatsh that started the uprisings and the coup det tat in 1963 which in fact it was a rebellion against the republic also the turks refused to pay taxes and started to choke key routes to disturb the economic activities of the island, So the Turkish plan for taksim was well in full 🌕🌕 swing early in the 1950! TMT even had a factory in Nicosia manufacturing guns and using them against the greek inhabitants of the island!1 So do your research before talking!!! Cheers 🍻🍻
@@demphotiou ..
Thanks .!
is very nice ,that you know all this real history , ..!
is really unbelievable ,how the Turks are living in such " darkness "..!
Well..
According to my opinion, the KEY word about the Cyprus issue is..
respect..!
RESPECT..!
The main reason that the Republic of Cyprus enters the EEU ,is right/ exactly , for the quarantee and respect of all its citizens human rights..!
ALL CYPRIOTS human rights..!
Greeks, Turks, Maronite's, Armenians, Latin's, British.. etc..!
NO MORE , quarantor powers..!
All , and the three of them, they played enough with their dirty games against us all Cypriots..!
Turkey, should of respect that , and finally let us Cypriots to live happy on our island..!
TODAY..
FCC or those they do not know...
One ,out of the six members of the Republic of Cyprus in the European parliament IS a Turkish Cypriot been elected mainly by the votes of the Greek Cypriots..!
About..
120.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus.. IDs..!
80.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus.. Passport..!
* ..PS..:..including the present Turkish Cypriot " priminister "..Mr. Tatar ..!
RESPECT..!
Never saying better .
Few other "details" to factor in
Republic of Cyprus established in 1960. It was never fully sovereign state as we might think. London and Zürich Agreements made RoC pretty much of a protectorate. Turkey, Greece and UK had interests that got recognized by those agreements, which became part of international law.
Establishment of the Republic was an uneasy compromise between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots since one demanded partition of the island, when the other demanded entirety of Cyprus to be annexed by Greece. Neither side got they wanted.
It took less than four years to start disintegrating. After a healthy dose of communal violence, both sides agreed to disagree yet held themselves a bit long.
Barely three years later, again, reached another tipping point where GC half of the administration attempted to change already fragile power balance by turning Turkish Cypriots into mere minority. Of course, Turks didn't have one bit of these proposals. Island fell into cycle of violence again, Turks pretty much squeezed into scattered enclaves and urban ghettos. For Turkish Cypriots, Republic of Cyprus died in 1967, not in 1974. 1974 was the end of seven years of living in encirclement.
From mid 1974 to late 1983. That is almost a decade of spinning wheels in endless and fruitless negotiations. If you take 1967 as de facto end of RoC, when it ceased to represent one of the two constituent nations and administer the territory they controlled, due violence they sponsored, it's not unreasonable for Turkish Cypriots to end the misery for both sides.
2004 Reunification referendum and subsequent attitude of international community (keep punishing the more cooperative half) gives little incentive to Turkish Cypriots to trust concerted international efforts at this point. They can hardly be blamed considering how eager the international community was to recognize Palestine and Kosovo or give legitimacy to Republika Srpska after all had been done during Bosnian War.
Thanks. You are clearly interested in Cyprus. But be careful not to buy into one side’s view of the situation. While I sympathise with the awful position the Turkish Cypriots encountered in the 1960s and 70s, Denktash never had any interest in a settlement. By the way, Cyprus is a situation I know particularly well. I lived on the island for a number of years and have served as an advisor to the UN, EU, Council of Europe and British Government on the Cyprus issue. (I was also at the talks at Crans Montana.) You might like to read my book: global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I have also published a number of other books on Cyprus.
@SilverOrien you are one sided and bias yourself, international community has never showed sympathy for turkish cypriots. The only side wanted to unite, said yes to Annans plan. The international community had to soften restrictions over the rights of turkish cypriots to give a reason for the Greek side to collaborate more. The greek cypriots are at the end in a much better position. They have no reason to give up on their position, the international community has failed to provide that reason.
..well , I must give you my point of view . ! Us , Greek cypriots dream of ENOSIS ended with the establishment of our independence. Turkey still has other plans about our common state. Even if our compatriots Turkish cypriots found themselves as a minority of 18%.. to had rights like they were 30% -40%..and yet ..following instructions from Turkey they " blow them up " ..giving troubles to our common state. We had the ..13 points of the referendum needed to be changed ... and from there we had the arm troubles beginning on December 1963 , ..with Turkish cypriots so ready..and well armed for ..more arm troubles . In the same time we had their terror organisation T.M.T threating and killing Turkish cypriots first ..( look for Ali Dervis kavazoglou kendi sensinden , ..the unfortunate story with the "family in the bathroom"..) ..manage to isolate them in" ghettos ".. , August 1964 , we had the troubles in ERENGOY/KOKKINA and when the government forces was about to relive/liberate and that last village from the GANGSTERS was fighting against US .. we had Turkeys air force bombing our villages around , 2 of them even been bombed with NAPALM BOMBS ! .(. can you imagine , NAPALM BOMBS on innocent people ..women's , children's and old people ..?) ..threating us NOT TO ..just to had time to save those people ..been transferred from Turkey's mainland . Then , troubles in kofinou village 1967 ..with our compatriots Turkish cypriots shouting around bothering the lives of local population. So , since Turkey's TAKSIM plans NEVER been successful ..the Americans ( Kissinger) ..the English .. NATO ..still wanted to satisfy Turkey that so , through GREECE ., playing with our EXPECTATIONS , .we had here the terror organisation EOKA-B.( 1971 -1974 ).threating and killing US ,Greek cypriots in the name of ENOSIS. .until.. we had the coup on July 1974 , and 5 days later .. Turkey's invasion .. with the HELP of GREECE .!
.. SO , ..during ALL this time 1963 - 1967 , we had a lot of killings and missings persons between our two communities and a wall of HATE BETWEEN US . and this is what ..they all wanted . To show that we MUST BE SEPARATED / .. . DIVIDE .. ! ..by the end , most probably this is for the good of US . ..We have fanatics and CRIMINALS on both sides .. that so ..until early 80 we was very close to a SOLUTION ..saying that ..ALL CYPRIOTS ( Greeks and Turks ) .. can return to their HOMES . the Turkish cypriots will have the 25%of the island. New homes, villages will be built in that 25% for the Turkish cypriots that so they will be the majority in their area! .. then Mr. Denktas ..changed his mind heading for his .."state " ..! on our STOLEN PROPERTIES . we all know that NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES . TODAY , we have the Turkish cypriots politicians and the elite around them NOT TO want for a JUSTICE SOLUTION , most probably they're huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our STOLEN PROPERTIES ..asking for more and MORE ., hiding behind Turkeys arms . About the late ANNAN PLAN .. we Greek cypriots voted NEGATIVE JUST BECAUSE was still giving RIGHTS ..on the island to Turkey . WHY ? to except that nation to still control OUR STATE ? GREECE and ENGLAND..are NEGATIVES to still involve in our country ..WHY to except TURKEY to still ...// PLEASE search in you tupe about" Rauf Denktash's shocking confession ",, read and the comments below...THE TRUTH is there..
@@vasosglykeriou9252 I didn't want to indulge this lunacy but let's fact check, shall we?
Dream of Enosis didn't die with the establishment of the joint republic. It continued at least until 1974, Akritas Plan, Greek Cypriot takeover of the joint institutions, 1974 Greek Far Right Coup D'etat.. all of them happened due to undead Enosis fixation.
Turkey was content with Republic of Cyprus as a political solution. If Greek Cypriots and Greece haven't done acts of agression, Turkey would be still fine with it. Even if she wasn't, that would be still geopolitically and politically stupid move to destabilize functioning Turco-Greek joint state.
Turkish Cypriots weren't always 18%. Significant decrease have happened during British rule and continued during joint Republic. You can't cherry pick demographic statistics to your will after open or concealed ethnic cleansing. You can check out diaspora as well and you'll see there isn't significant difference between Turkish and Greek Cypriots if you include their diasporas. One of the reasons Annan Plan's rejection was clauses regarding "right of return" and rearrangement clauses of power sharing of joint institutions. Greek Cypriot politicians knew fully what it meant.
TMT is Türk Mukavemet Teşkilatı (Turkish Resistance Organisation). The name and date of founding, compared to EOKA's name and date of founding shows what was ethnic terrorism and what was self defense.
Those "gangsters" were trying to keep the only maritime link open to bring materiel and much needed goods, since Greek Cypriots were busy exterminating their fellow citizens in organised fashion. Ever heard Sarajevo Tunnel of Life and Serb snipers & artillery on hilltops? Pretty much same story.
Turkey didn't send troops with help of Greece. On the contrary, two countries almost went to war with one another.
Denktaş argued for partition since the beginning, even before 1960, but he was overruled by Turkey and international community. Only after fanaticism of Greek Cypriot politics proved him right and he masterfully carried out his agenda. Knowing what happened before 1974 or since, Greek Cypriots have been proving time after time Denktaş was right all along.
Also it was never 25% deal. Always 30+% deal. 30+%, bizonal, bicommunal federation, created by two constituent states, all guarantor rights from London-Zürich regime continuing. Negotiations seemed to stalled about the divergence on the competencies of common federal state but in reality it was always about guarantor rights and Greek Cypriot maximalist claims. They argued for every inch of land. Meanwhile resting on their laurels, knowing full well international community gave them carte blanche for their spoiled attitude.
Now they can enjoy their short sighted policy. TRNC won't ever return to any joint institution, other than confederal solution. Turkish Armed Forces remain on the island as they please, with the numbers they want to have, Greek Cypriots can only claim their property if they recognize TRNC's de facto sovereignty, paying their tax to that state. You guys better recognize the fact that you missed the chance. Annan Plan was the best offer on the table. Now Turkish state and electorate doesn't really care about EU's carrots. You just worn out the other side.
By the way, many of those "Greek" properties are illegally seized properties of Turkish Evkaf (Endowments) and individuals. After figuring out what was really owned by whom, calculation of Turkish Properties left in the South and the Reparations for 1960 - 1974, Greek Cypriots might get nothing at all, if they don't pay up themselves.
These are the truths you might need to search.. Have a nice day!
Imagine recognizing a stolen land
Leave it to politicos and nothing good comes out for ordinary people - like elsewhere also even today. Without knowing the history of Cyprus, I was vacationing in Cyprus until one day before the "invasion". I hadn't paid enough attention maybe, but I had not noticed animosity between the two peoples; same as in islands in the Aegean and mainland Turkey in the '90's.
I would like to know what else could have happened? During the coup by Greece many Turkish Cypriots who were living together with Greek Cypriots in the same city's town and villages were singled out the night the coup started killed and their houses burned. They were out to kill every Turkish Cypriot on the island and many Greek Cypriots hide in their houses also scared for their lives. Even if they wanted to help their Turkish Cypriot counter parts they couldn't as the ones behind the coup would also kill them. Turkeys invasion was seen by the Turkish Cypriots as a God send as they saw it as being saved from death. After the Turkish Cypriots going tho such horrors at the time what else could they have done but declare independence and securing peace for themselves. It's easy to look back and say they should of done this or that but u need to understand what the people who were around at that time went tho and the horrors they faced. Those troops behind the coup backed by Greece even by the Greek Cypriots who knew and grew up with there Turkish Cypriot counterparts saw them as terrorists.
The trouble is that the declaration of independence took place almost a decade after 1974. There was no threat any more. The Turkish army was there in large numbers. The Turkish Cypriot leadership was repeatedly warned not declare independence as this would force an international reaction. And this is exactly what happened. It was condemned as illegal by the UN Security Council and countries were told not to engage with the ‘TRNC’. This made things far wise than then needed to be. That’s my point. It was a completely unnecessary decision which has done lasting damage to the Turkish Cypriot community. Their isolation has been confounded by the short-sighted vanity of declaring independence.
@@JamesKerLindsay I agree with you 100% but far right groups still exist in Cyprus even today. Those who call for every turk to be thrown off the island. Even tho they have lived there for 100s of years. In political sense ur right but for the safety of the Turkish community there I still believe it was the right thing to do. Let's say they didn't declare independence in my opinion we would still be in the same state with turkey running everything. Independence gave the North a chance to also govern them self's.
As some one who's family is in the North now but originally from the South it hasn't been too bad. Even tho we live in the North we still benefit from the EU. For example I can go and get an EU id card and I am granted all the benefits of an EU citizen even tho my family reside in the North of Cyprus now. Same is not true for those who moved from turkey to Cyprus after 1974. Only those who have roots in Cyprus before that.
A little known fact there are still Greek Cypriots still living in North Cyprus which never left and they were allowed to stay and that's in karpaz the tail of Cyprus
@@alstar7232 Thanks. But again I would argue that the Declaration of Independence has actually left TCs far more dependent on Turkey. If Denktash hadn’t declared independence then there would have been no resolutions calling on states not to assist the TRNC. This would have meant trade could have continued. The ban on direct trade was as a result of those resolutions. The TFSC did everything that the TRNC did but did not alienate the international community. It was trying to formally secede that did the damage.
Really, I have written about Cyprus extensively. (I have 7 books on Cyprus including this global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en&) I lived in the island for 8 years and have interviewed most of the GC and TC senior political figures - including Denktash. In private, most TC politicians admit that the Declaration of Independence was a disaster for the community. It does nothing to protect them from GC nationalists. All it has done it made the TCs more isolated internationally. Really, it was a monumental error.
@@alstar7232 James will not give you a straight answer
Wow what a story! In hindsight this guy Denktas must have been a real piece of work. I tend to agree with a comment of yours that Denktas was not a Turkish puppet but instead the Turks were actually afraid of him (and secretly perhaps despised him).
Some minor conclusions from your video:
a) Different cultures are difficult to coexist (but not impossible).
b) Turkish politicians can become quite emotional and self-destructing, in a complete contrast to their public image as wise deep strategic thinkers.
c) Conquering new territory by force is still a manifestly legit enterprise for Turkey. (!!!)
Thanks. Denktash is a strange one. I met him many times. I always say that I hated his politics and I wouldn’t have wanted to be his enemy, but one-on-one he was one of the sharpest people I’ve ever met. And he had a brilliant sense of humour. You could ask him anything, and even disagree strongly, and he would not get upset. He had the master politician’s ability to make you feel like you were the most important person he could be talking to. He was actually very likeable - again, if you weren’t his opponent. As my late father once said, imagine what Cyprus could have been if he had been President of the whole island!
On your points, I agree that it is difficult to exist, but certainly not impossible, as you say. As for Turkey, it is indeed capable of extremely self-destructive behaviour. This is something that one sees across SE Europe. There’s actually a term for it: inat. It doesn’t have a direct translation in English, but essentially it means doing something that while harmful to your interests, nevertheless allows you to keep your honour intact. I always tell students that once you’ve cracked ‘inat’, the region becomes a lot more understandable. I also say that other countries are just as capable of it! (Elements of Britain and Brexit come to mind.)
@@JamesKerLindsay Hi James, thank you for your answer.
I’ve searched “inat” and here is what I found:
a) It’s like when you do something that’s the opposite of what everyone wants and expects, just because they’re pushing you.
b) It is doing something on purpose, even though it’s forbidden, perhaps because it’s forbidden.
C) It’s like shooting a fighter bomber with a pistol. As obstacles grow, so does “inat.”
D) “Inat” can be found in Winston Churchill’s “We shall fight on the beaches” or in JFK’s “We choose to go to the moon … not because it is easy, but because it is hard.” Or in Hilbert’s “we must know, we will know” despite Goedel’s proof that this was impossible.
It involves a defiance of reality esp. when faced with a perceived injustice.
Inat in the west is used for really big goals, as per the above examples. If I got it right, you are saying it is used in SE Europe for everyday politics and petty things.
Regarding your description of Denktash, I've noticed two things: 1) Charming personality 2) Makes you feel important as long as you serve his game (even by disagreeing). Is your mind open to the mere possibility of a mild sociopathy? I know, this kind a demarcation is forbidden, but 1) and 2) are the reddest flags.
@@glenn07777 hi Turkish person here lol, "inat" basically means "emotional stubborness"
PLEASE search in you tube about..
" Rauf Denktash's shocking comfession '..!
&
" Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sensinden "..!
..after that you will get an idea about.. Who was this terrorist..!
@@mariosmario1048 can u link those videos
Why they don't make it a Federal entity with two states, it's not that difficult, like Bosnia and Herzegovina
that's the general idea, but there's the thorny issue of guarantees, which Turkey won't give up
Thanks. Yes, the hope is to create a federal solution. However, there are a lot of different issues that need to be resolved. The trouble is that there isn’t the political will to reach an agreement. It is interesting that you mention Bosnia. I think many Cypriots are in fact worried that the island will go in that direction with a settlement and eventually become dysfunctional.
@@JamesKerLindsay As a Greek-Cypriot i agree.. that is our biggest concern and it was also the reason we rejected the 2004 plan, certain provisions of it were problematic and for Greek-Cypriots unacceptable, as it was regarded as a settlement that would merely create further issues and conflicts rather than resolve the existing ones.
The truth is that most issues can be resolved, and could had been resolved if both communities could trust each other and would simply create a united state without the distinctions. I mean, many other states have minorities (actually most do), but the best solution is simply to ensure that there will be no discrimination based on ethnicity. The 1960's constitution was way to complex and by separating the power between the two communities it simply created tension. Turkish-Cypriots felt they were not represented adequately as they had less power in general. Greek-Cypriots felt that the other community had way to much power considering they represented only 18% of the population ( as in most cases the Turkish-Cypriot community had power of 30-40%, and disproportionate to their population). Thus, it was a recipe for disaster when the extreme nationalism of both parties was taken into account. So the best solution would had been for a state with a constitution that would not discriminate based on nationality... This though seems as unrealistic in our world and in the current situation. So the best possible solution now, would most likely be that of a confederation. Yet, for such a solution to work Turkish troops should leave the island (except from the small garrison that was established by the treaty of 60...), turkey and the other foreign powers stop trying to intervene in internal Cypriot matters and the property of displaced people from both communities should be arranged to be given back (or at least fairly compensated). In return, turkish-cypriots will have powers within their own confederate state in matters such as education, policing etc, similar to the powers federal states have in the US or in Germany.Moreover, they will enjoy the EU citizenship and the rights this entails as well as the ability to trade and move freely within the EU. Cypriots should be able to leave in each state (as it would be unreasonable to be able as EU citizens to leave in other EU countries but not in their own confederate states..) while the ethnicity should not be regarded as a requirement for any position in both states. The power each confederate state has on the federal government should be proportionate to the population. ( as population changes power allocation should be amended accordingly each decade with a census similar to the US system).
@@killermanattack how about military? TC had bad experiance when GC tried to genocide them after the coup d'etat, what gives guarantee that won't happen again other than empty words?
@@master-debater genocide???? Says who??? Erdol-fan??? First accept your own genocides aka armenia and greeks before you accuse others of such things
I don't know if it was intentional, but you left out the most important point: The north part of Cyprus (just like every other part of Cyprus) was inhabited by a great majority of Greek Cypriots until the Turkish invasion of 1974 which ethnically cleansed the majority (Greek) population from the part of Cyprus they occupied, and replaced it with Turkish Cypriots who came from other parts of Cyprus, and Anatolian Turkish Settlers.
It should also be noted that the Turks were threatening partition since the 1950s, and that with their invasion they took 36% of territory and 50%+ of the resources and coastline of Cyprus, for the 18% Turkish Cypriot community.
So this is quite unlike cases such as Catalonia, Kosovo, Scotland, Crimea etc, where the local population of that territory might seek independence. In the case of Cyprus the majority of the local population of northern Cyprus was ethnically cleansed by a foreign invading army. The north part of Cyprus does not belong to Turkish Cypriots, and therefore they can not talk on behalf of that territory.
It is unfortunate that there was no word about the Greek Cypriots who were expelled from their homes! You talk as if north Cyprus belongs to Turkish Cypriots, which definitely doesn't. You can't declare "independence" for a territory that doesn't belong to you and which you took with invasion and ethnic cleansing.
Thanks. These are 10-15 minute videos. I have to make a judicious decision in every one about what information is directly relevant to the situation I am.dealing with in any particular case. This necessarily means omitting information that one side or another regards as vital. When it comes to Cyprus, you can be sure that I considered this particularly carefully. My family have lived there for 30 years, and I’ve actually lived on the island for 8 years. I have also published about 7 or 8 books on the Cyprus issue and the politics and international relations of Cyprus. global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en&
@@JamesKerLindsay Hey, thanks for your quick reply! I've been watching some of your other videos since I posted my earlier comment ;)
I think the fact that Greek Cypriots had been the vast majority in "northern Cyprus" until the Turkish invasion of 1974 is a very important fact. When we talk about "declaration of independence" or "self-determination" I think most people assume that this is done by the local population of that territory (the majority at least or their elected representatives), and not by others, most of whom just moved to this territory after a foreign invasion and ethnic cleansing of the majority of the native inhabitants.
So I think calling what happened in Cyprus as "north Cyprus seceding" or "breaking away" gives a wrong impression. It gives the impression that there was already a "north Cyprus" region with a majority made up of Turkish Cypriots, who then choose to secede. The north part of Cyprus did no "secede" neither it "broke away". It was forcefully taken from its native population by a foreign army, which since 1974 continues to occupy it.
Thanks a lot. Points well taken. This is actually a very important issue that I should perhaps look at in a future video. We do think of territories and groups as having a right to self-determination, but what happens when conflict leads to a group coming to dominate an area where it wasn’t a majority previously?
@@JamesKerLindsay Exactly. "Self" is the important part of the term "self-determination". You determine your own self and your own territory. Greek Cypriots have been the majority in north Cyprus for 1000s of years until the ethnic cleansing of 1974. So that territory couldn't possibly fall under a separate "self-determination" of the Turkish Cypriot community. Clearly there is no legal or ethical way to divide Cyprus along ethnic lines.
And the South was inhabited by a great number of Turkish Cypriots. What is your point. After 1974 110k GCs moved to the South and 60k TCs moved to the North.
Türkçe'de bir deyim vardır: Koyun can derdinde, kasap et derdinde. İnşallah Kıbrıs bir gün barış içinde yaşamanın yolunu bulur. Kıbrıs Türklerinin insan hakları kabul edilir umarım... Hangi evde oturduğunun ne önemi var mutlu değilsen?
Well.
The main reason that the Republic of Cyprus, enters the EEU , is right/ exactly for the quarantee and respect , of all its citizens human rights..!
ALL Cypriots ..
Greeks, Turks, Maronite's, Armenians, Latin's, British ..etc.!
NO MORE ,quarantor powers !
All ,and the three of them ,they played enough with their dirty games against us all Cypriots..!
TODAY ..
for those they do not know..!
One, out of the six members of Cyprus, in the European parliament IS a Turkish Cypriot been elected mainly by the votes of the Greek Cypriots ..!
About .
120.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots, are owners of the Republic of Cyprus, ..IDs .!
80.000 from our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots are owners of the Republic of Cyprus ..passport..!
PS : including the present Turkish Cypriot " priminister "..Mr.Tatar ..!
Kıbrıs zaten barış içinde
@@ZEVAHir33 kimse tanımıyor ama…
World: we have to find a solution
An average cypriot: yOu dONt hAve anY riGhT tO tAlk iF u R n0t fRom thE i5laNd
The Republic of Cyprus should be given full control of the island.The checkpoints are rediculous.
well, GC doesn't want reunification. I guess there is only one other option left.
@@master-debater Neither TCs want reunification, but the recognition of "TRNC"
@@VladTevez they did vote "yes" to reunification in the referandum. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Cypriot_Annan_Plan_referendums
@@master-debater GCs do want reunification, they just need a better plan to vote for it.
@@andydocherty8343 well, I don't want to get married but if billionaire super-model proposes me, I would go for it. guess what, that aint happening either..
There is a simple 2 state solution. Follow the Australia and New Zealand model of citizenship. Recognize South Cyprus and North Cyprus as 2 independent states. Turkish Cypriots can grant citizenship rights to Greek Cypriots and vice versa. A Turkish Cypriot can elect to become a Greek Cypriot and a Greek Cypriot can elect to become a Turkish Cypriot or they can maintain their own citizenship but enjoy the same citizenship rights of the state. This way the people in both states can travel and live freely in either state protected by the law as though they are citizens. The would open up the island to all Cypriots. Free trade would be optimal between the 2 states. Everyone would win. A win win solution. Learn the Australia and New Zealand citizenship model, it works.
Thanks. That is a really fascinating point. I hadn't heard this idea before! (And I thought I'd heard everything on Cyprus!) I know that there is a strong body of thought that increasingly argues that maybe a more incremental approach to the issue is needed. Rather than a big bang settlement day when a new state of affairs comes into being, it might be better to be more gradualist and bring the communities together in a variety of ways leading up to an eventual federation. The problem is that the Greek Cypriot side is extremely cautious about anything that would seem to recognise the 'TRNC' or ceded sovereignty to the Turkish Cypriots. This makes anything that starts on the basis of sovereign equality extremely difficult.
@@JamesKerLindsay Federation will not work because both sides want self determination. Both sides also have strong historical claims to the island. Cyprus is only 40k from Turkey and was a Turkish territory for 400 years. The Greeks on the other hand have lived there for a long time. Both their economies are dependant on their mother countries Greece and Turkey so they are effectively proxy states. Its not that hard really. Give both sides self determination which would mean UN endorsement, follow the Australia and New Zealand model, open up the island for all, open trade for all, which would also be proxy trade for Greece and Turkey. The Australia and New Zealand citizenship arrangements do all of this very successfully to everyones benefit. Also note that federation in this case is over rated, would be unnecessarily complex, and will always be a source for argument and conflict. New Zealanders do not want to be seen as Australian, they are a self determined sovereign state, yet at the same time, both peoples enjoy full citizenship rights of each others country, no visa needed, they can live and work, and opt to become citizens if they so choose. By the way, the Australia and New Zealand solution is brilliant, it works extremely well and has done so for a long time.
@@northgork what australia- new zealand is with cyprus,and turkish cyprus,australia-new zealand,are two totaly diferent country,they are not bean one country,and divide,on two,.cyprus is always bean,one,since,and turkish cyprus,doesnt recognise,anyone,and it will not be recognise,ever,anyone,cuprus is only one,belong to greek people
@@draganserdar9999 Correct. Cyprus belonged to the Turks for over 300 years and before that it belonged the the Venetians not the Greeks. Moreover, Cyprus is geologically on the continental shelf of Turkey so geologically speaking Cyprus is an island of Turkey. My idea is to establish a 2 state solution so that both Greeks and Turks of Cyprus can have self determination and live in peace and prosper together and share the island with equality in citizenship rights as per the Australia-NewZealand model . As long as Greeks are close minded there will never be self determination for both sides. You cannot expect the Turks of Cyprus to allow the Greeks of Cyrus to oppress them all over again - an lets not even talk about the attempted genocide committed the Greeks. Greek rule was tried and it failed. Wise up.
@@northgork i dont think,so, cyprus is not bean ever turkish part,.turks come ilegaly landed,and occupy half cyprus,and resetle poor turkish people there,.if cyprus belong to turkey,why the UN,and anyone iib the world recognise Turkis Cyprus no one no any country in the world will recognise Turkish Cyprus,as a country,except Turkey onle,and Greek Cyprus will not ever join Turkis Cyprus to be togrther,.Greek Cyprus is part of EU why Turkish Cyprus is not part of Europe,it will not be ever,.
It's a really interesting and useful video. May I ask you more about the US reacton to the 1983 decaration of the independence and it's role in the resolution 451?
Thank you. In fact, there’s really not a lot to say. The UK took the lead on this. The key aim was to get a UN Security Council resolution drafted, which the UK did, and stop key Muslim countries from recognising it until the resolution could be passed. Bangladesh and Pakistan were key, both of which were Commonwealth Countries. UK and Greece worked on getting EU members to help where they could. (Obviously nine of them considered recognition.) At the same time, Cyprus worked on the non-aligned countries. The US supported all these efforts, but was not at the forefront of activities.
Russia a opening a consulate in Lefkosa…
Please be informed that it wasn't the Turkish-Cypriots who declared "independence", but it was Ankara who attempted to do so.
No, it wasn’t. The Turkish Cypriots did it. I have been through the historical documents at the time. Turkey half-heartedly tried to stop them. In fact, the very reason that Denktash chose the moment he did to declare independence was because Turkey was transitioning between military and civilian rule and wasn’t in a strong position to stop them. It is very common for Greek Cypriots to see Ankara’s hand behind everything the Turkish Cypriots do. In truth, the TCs have often had a bit more control over their decisions than many realise - especially under Denktash.
Professor..!
I can only except that , knowing of your ..knowledge about the issue.!
YES..
most probably Mr.Denktash , actions was ..further more than of what the official state of Turkey was ready to gives. !
..BUT ,
, for sure his actions was approved by their military , and their Nationalist parties ..!
..ACTUALLY..
We , the Greek Cypriots , had the same story...!
Since , the anti colonialism struggle , focusing for the ..UNION of the island with Greece mainland... ( 1955-59 )..
The local leadership wanted of something ...that GREECE , by the end , was NOT ready to strongly support it..!
SO , .as a result ..we have the two communities suffering , from their own ...act's..!
Great..!
Cyprus is British.
Britain is cyprus
Dear James, great video and very informative. It would be interesting to make a video about unilateral declarations of independence throughout history, maybe sometime pre WW2 or even further. Didn't the USA unilaterally secede from the Britain?
Bu bilgiler yanlış
You keep repeating “denktash has been warned not to declare independence and he did so, so it was a mistake”. I would ask some humility before making a judgement. Nobody can question his patriotism and love for his people and land. And their parliament passed independence resolution. So what was he suppose to do? Don’t they have right to self determination in this context? International law and UNSC resolutions are tools for big fishes to use against small fishes in the ocean. US, UK, Russia and other powers turns blind eye to international laws and norms when it fits to them. So, Denktash did what he was suppose to do. It’s easy to make youtbe video and criticize people who have their blood, sweat and tear all over their county
Don't get your panties in a bunch. The creator of this video was humble alright. You just need to judge people better.
He was a nationalist and supremacist . There is no reason the man couldn't have loved his people and land under Cypriot rule . There is no excuse for treason
PLEASE..
look about...
" Rauf Denktash shocking confession "
&
" Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "!
there you will understand what kind of.. tricky person ..was that personality
"Nobody can question his patriotism and love for his people and land."
Having love doesn't mean you can't make mistakes. At least in hindsight, it would probably have been better for Northern Cyprus to just continue with de facto independence without formally declaring it. That would have made international relations easier. I think it's fair to call the declaration of independence a mistake regardless of who you blame for it.
.." love his people and land.."..?
What you really mean here..?..
Brow..!
The north occupied areas are occupied by Turkey since 1974..!
MILITARY OCCUPIED AREAS..!
the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties..!
PLEASE
we expect from you people to RESPECT that..!
About , your people ,
" with their blood ..spread ,and tears all over the island "..!
..well,
Right ,exactly .. is the story of us , the Greek Cypriots..!
..your people , through their t o.TMT , really ..playing with the life's of all CYPRIOTS..!
Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots as well..!
The nation of Turkey played it's dirty games against our common country CYPRUS ,since 1958.!
Through ,you , our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots..!
A minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state. ( for about the rules/ functions ).. And yet ,they blew them up following instructions from Turkey..!
They actually took the arms against their own state..!
for proofs PLEASE search about..
" Rauf Denktash shocking confession "..!
&
" Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sensiden "..!
just to inform you that ,the late Dervis Ali Kavazoglu , ..a HERO ,
been murdered by your people , ..just because he was saying the true.!
THE TRUTH.!
Let's be frank and prompt to face with realities. So called Cyprus Republic was stalling because the president Macarios offered the Acritas Plan in order to ignore many legal and legitimate rights of Turkish Cypriots by the state's constitution.
And remember the Supreme Court of Cyprus objected as well.
Nobody is saying there wasnt a republic, yet but was. The moment Greek Cypriot Makarios decided to break up and change the rules, the republic collapsed. This is for sure.
''Desire to lead and rule Cyprus from Greece, caused and provoked Turks.'' This is not my line, an original text from BBC just comments after 20 July. Early morning news.
Anyway;
Even before the Turkish military intervention, (which was right and legitimate, Türkiye was a guarantee state of the Cyprus) it has already been accepted, there are two separate structures and administrative divisions in Cyprus. Greeks and Turks. Cyprus Republic for me existed barely for 3 years. From 1960 to 1963. That's it.
Current version which has become a member of EU is only the Greek Cypriot Administration, which do not represents Turkish Cypriots.
Turkish Republic North Cyprus should immediately recognized and two states of the island shall be closely and cooperative work in peace. This is the way.
I know even my Greek friends visited TRNC and they have observed the state exists with all institutions. So it is absolutely waste of time. Recognise TRNC and stop unfair embargo agaist Turkish Cypriots.
People who had to leave their houses and properties they can return back to TRNC, since I know there is a particular commision on this issue. I understand still some guys are extreme and super eager to make Cyprus Greece, well folks that will not happen.
I think the best and sustainable solution is to make it two states. I am sure those states will leave very close and peacefully.
Turkish Cypriot sportsmen can be able to join international organization, direct flights must start. And the UN Resolution must be revised or updated.
Thank you.
Thanks you for your share. I think the unification of North Cyprus with Turkey is more realistic than with South Cyprus. North Cyprus and South Cyprus have different ethnic domination.
What is more important is the welfare of the turkish welfare not all the resolution around it. If not what happen to palestinean and bosnian will happen to the turkish cypriot
What do you mean..brow !
is a shame,for you people , even today to still think that way..!
You people , really stay with the myths your leadership gives you still !
Is a shame ,
..the north occupied part of our common state ..
IS OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974..!
The majority of all those are still our stolen lands end properties!
@@andrigeogiou8420 during that time turks was prosecuted by the greek. Of course their kin will help. If not the like of palestine and bosnia will happen.
aren't you a Turkish Cypriot..?
..So ,
you need to know more about..
The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common state. against CYPRUS through our compatriots Turkish Cypriots.
A minority of 18% been found with rights like they were ,30%-40% , ( ..in the participation from them in the states ruling ). and yet , ..they played the games of Turkey ..!
They blew them UP , following their instructions..!
They actually took the arms against their own state.!
..SO
what is your worries about...?
if you understand the Turkish language .
PLEASE search in you tube about this Turkish Cypriot journalist . ( a hero) .. been murdered by his own people just because he was saying he Truth..!
The TRUTH..!
" Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "..!
&
" Rauf Denktash shocking confession ".!
Greece has incredibly built up pretty strong diplomatic power over the years. Witness the TRNC and Macedonia naming issues. TRNC and Turkey were in the early 80s hoping that the west, being weary to a then rebellious Greece and more warming to a then pro west Turkey, would be sympathetic to the Turkish cause and recognize TRNC. Thanks to the Greek diplomatic power it did not happen, and even more unlikely to happen now with Greece power as strong as ever and Turkey becoming rebellious.
I wish the opposite happened
I think it was extremely politically naive for Rauf Denktash to have even tried to make trnc a legal state since it violates the U.N. Charter and the treaty of guarantee /treaty of establishment 1960. It was a waste of time that only got him and the tc's into more political trouble by prompting the UNSC to issue resoltions condemning the action/s.
Thank you. I completely agree. The unilateral Declaration of Independence was the greatest mistake the Turkish Cypriots ever made. Many senior figures even admit it. Who know how things might have been different had Denktash not done this and forced the UN Security Council to declare it illegal. It might even be in a Kosovo situation after the Annan Plan. But Resolution 541 has made that impossible. But Denktash was repeatedly warned not to do it!
Hi Bill...ive your replies on this channel....your 100% spot on and impartial...
@@JamesKerLindsay .
Mr , james..!
You are so realistic person..!
ALL the BEST..!
Huppy New Year..!
@@mariosmario1048 Thank you. And to you too!
I hope that one day the TRNC will be recognized and will rise to an equal status with the Greeks. Unfortunately, the Turkish side is always the victim. The only solution is two equal states.
The turkish side is always the one who thinks the universe belongs to them. One day the north will be reconquered
in your dreams
Cyprus was until the 1960 under the British. In 15 January 1950, Greek Cypriots demanded with a referendum the union with Greece (as we are Greeks). 97% of Cyprus population voted for the Union. Britain illegally ignored this action by Greek Cypriots and after that, they were more strict with them.
In 1st of April 1955 the war began by Greek Cypriots, in order to kick out England from Cyprus, and most importantly the Union with mother Greece. Turkish Cypriots were aware of this war, and they knew, if the Union with Greece will be completed, turkey will never have power in this Island long. (Turkish Cypriots were estimated the 15% of cyprus population).
Although Greeks won this war, the British influence on the cypriot greek traitor politician Makarios, the union was not completed and instead the Republic of Cyprus was introduced.
On 20th July, turkey invaded illegal to Cyprus and took the 37% of Cyprus. More than 300.000 refugees moved from their parent houses. On 15 November 1983 turkey in corporate with the turkish cypriots introduced a new state called the TRNC. This “state” is illegal and recognize only by turkey.
TURKISH TROOPS OUT OF CYPRUS - FREEDOM TO CYPRUS
WE DEMAND THE RETURN OF OUR LAND !!
Thanks. I have covered Cyprus extensively in other videos. I have also published a number of books on the Cyprus problem. global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& Indeed, I actually lived on the island for 8 years.
Typical one sided Greek Cypriot nonsense best ignored.
@@thetraveller1612 Did i said something that is incorrect? History is written, and can never be forgotten. The problem in Cyprus is not the Turkish-Cypriots, the problem in Cyprus is turkey which holds our land illegally, along with their army which is placed in our occupied land.
The problem is more that you came in and just decided to grandstand with a lot of the standard lines. It would have really been better if you had tried to engage with the material in the videos and other commenters in a more considered way. I really don’t need lectures on the Cyprus issue. (I have probably written more than anyone else on it!) And I always love to engage with people who want to discuss things sensibly and without resorting to the tired talking points. But shouting you want your land back and saying that you don’t have a problem with the Turkish Cypriots but only with Turkey does not actually win over Turkish Cypriots. It would be like a Turkish Cypriot saying that they hate Greeks, but Greek Cypriots are OK, and that all Turkish troops must stay. Many Greek Cypriots would feel unhappy about this. I understand how you feel, but sloganeering really doesn’t help take things forward. And I really do like to think that the channel can be a one of the few places on RUclips where considered discussion can occur. If you look, many people do write far longer comments here than elsewhere. So, please, by all means contribute, but do it in a way that helps promote dialogue. There are plenty of other places for Greek and Turkish Cypriots to shout slogans at each other.
@@JamesKerLindsay I never said that I hate turkish and I didn’t “shout” or I offended you. I just stated that the main problem in Cyprus is turkey that has illegally invaded in 1974. And since then they are holding our land, our houses, our hope to return. It looks like that you were benefited from this situation like the majority of british people (go to our occupied land and benefitted cheap holidays)
why Palestine is not recognised by America and Israel
Totally a bunch of inaccuracies and rather biases. Real countries and communities do decorate “independence” while under military occupation and certainly did not take the occupying Turkish forces “by surprise”! In fact these occupation has isolated the Turkish Cypriot community.
Thanks. I’m not sure what your exact points of disagreement were. I have worked on the Cyprus Problem for many years and have written extensively on it. Seven books, including this: global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I’d be keen to know why you think it is inaccurate?
@@JamesKerLindsay So you are saying that the turkish government doesn't control the TRNC? And that they declared independence without their agreement? Makes no sense. the TRNC is just a puppet state of Turkey. They decide what happens there, much to the anger of Turkish cypriots, who are now actually a minority in the north cyprus due to the settlement of Turks after the invasion.
I mean it does exist. It's has an actual government, people and laws. Why not recognize it anyway?
Did you even watch the video? It literally explains it.
You must be jocking..!
The north part of the island is a MILITARY OCCUPIED AREA..!
is occupied by Turkey since 1974..!
The majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties..!
in our days ,just their military put people in costume's just for to play political games..!
Can you understand the difference..?
D'r..!
it was only last summer ,that a Turk Mafia leader , blaming the Turkey's primynister , .. saying that they had an agreement about the occupied areas of Cyprus ,to becomes a DRUG dealers base a and a money laundering area..
@@andrigeogiou8420 cry, greek.
The only sustainable solution is immediate recognition of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Either internationally recognized or no Turkish Cypriots are independent for almost 50 years.
Before judging Turkish people in the island it is better to check what kind of problems and attacks caused a division.
UN decisions for Cyprus are obsolete and have no use for people. Members of UN Security Council especially Russia must revise its policy against TRNC.
You all Turks ,are either for laugh or for to feel sorry about..
What is the matter with you ..guys
SO much disinformation you are living in
The Turkish Cypriot community are digging their own graves, as they want the best of all possible scenarios.
🇹🇷 KKTC
I was born a refugee after the brutal invasion of 1974. We are still waiting to return to our homelands but Turkish foreign policy makes it very difficult. Sadly, there can be no peace with Turkey as has been proven time and time again in the past.
The first refugees were the Turkish Cypriots in the 60s driven by the GCs desire to unite with Greece and violently ethnically cleanse the Turkish Cypriots. Period.
@@thetraveller1612 TCs were influenced into voluntarily moving to the enclaves by the British and the Turks. The Turks had already started sending arms to Cyprus from the 50s.
@@cypruswithoutborders1034 ..well said ..bro !
@WooW ..OK..boss !
@@cypruswithoutborders1034 same old chestnut trying to justify the wrongdoing of the GCs but we Turkish Cypriots know the truth.
Northern Cyprus is free. Forever justice, forever freedom, forever peace...
As usual, it’s Turkey acting as the troublemaker.
I wonder if it could work if they weren't greedy and gave them like half the territory back.
Actually, normally you get rid of roaches, but the roaches wear business suits now. Eh.
So.
You prefer to live like.. thief's in our stolen lands..!
You are good. !
If there was no turkish army operation to cyprus, turks would be forced to leave island. *there are no turks in other greek islands and greece but during the ottoman there were thousand of turks.
What happened to all the greeks that where in turkey? You murdered them or drove them out just like u did to the armenians
@@twistedmuppet2464 nobody murdered them, there are millions if not all, people in Turkey with some kind of greek or roman ancestry, people assimilated got muslim (not muslim myself), or adapted in some ways, i can bet my head on, every turkish people have at least some greek ancestry!
The UDI of the TRNC actually triggered the colonization of Northern Cyprus by Turkish Anatolian settlers, whose culture is very different to the Cypriot Turks. Northern Cyprus nowadays has become a semi-Erdoganesque colony, where the Turkish Cypriots have become a minority in their own country. These colonists bring a culture that is much more conservative and islamic than the relatively liberal culture that is more pronounced in Greece, Cyprus and the Western part of Turkey.
This is not independence: It's total dependence from Turkey.
That is why this declaration was so disastrous.
You can blame that on the Greeks Cypriots who have constantly focused on isolating yhd Turkish Cypriots at ever turn.
Well
The north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974!
MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA. !
The majority of all those are still our stolen lands end properties..!
PLEASE
we expect from you people to RESPECT that....
Cyprus is Greek!
No. Cyprus is a sovereign independent republic founded in 1960.
@@JamesKerLindsay Its inhabitants are greeks so cyprus is greek even if the british forced for the island's independence and completely disregarded the will of Cypriots for union with greece. So, considering the fact that you are british I find your comment extremely disturbing.
@@gilpaubelid3780 I really don’t need lectures on Cyprus, thanks.
@@JamesKerLindsay Then you shouldn't lecture other people on their own country especially after your country's involvement in this whole mess. And my comment is far from a lecture.
@@gilpaubelid3780 Clearly you do need some lectures as you don’t know your history as well as you think you do. It was Greece and Turkey that decided Cypriot independence, not Britain. Anyway, here’s a book that might be able to help www.goodreads.com/book/show/12496784-the-cyprus-problem
The Greeks Cypriots said no to unification and got rewarded by being in the EU .
Thanks Unal, but you have to see this in the context of the time the decision was taken to admit Cyprus. Denktash was the TC leader and he had made it clear over many decades that he wasn’t interested in a settlement. It was against this backdrop that the EU made the decision to accept Cyprus as a member. The problem was that once the agreement had been signed and ratified there was no reason for Papadopoulos to take the Annan Plan. This should have been thought about. But the problem is that everyone was so focused on Denktash that they didn’t consider the GC side of the story. So, yes the TCs are in weak position. But they only have Denktash to blame. (And I don’t say this as someone who disliked Denktash. I disagreed with his politics, but every time I ever met him I liked him enormously. He was actually very funny in person and fascinating to talk to. But he was not interested in a settlement. Please do remember that.)
@@JamesKerLindsay I thought the Annan plan supported by the EU and the rest of the world was negotiated by Papadopoulos and Talat at the time, Denktas was not part of the negotiations as he was sidelined by Ankara.
I believe the facts to be that it was illegal for Cyprus to enter the EU where Greece and Turkey were not Members, Turkey of which is not a member. Also the EU went against their own rules in allowing a divided country into its fold. Thirdly, it is known that Greece blackmailed the enlargement process by effectively blocking it if Greek Cyprus was not admitted. Finally the EU admitted that the Greek Cypriots duped them when they proved the Annan plan was negotiated in bad faith following the Greek Cypriots no campaign.
On balance the Greek Cypriots entry into the EU was rotten and should never have been allowed. What we do know is that their membership has further complicated a possible solution by adding more weight behind the Greek Cypriots.
Keep in mind that Turkish Cypriots are legally allowed to have an ID and passport of the Republic of Cyprus. Which means that they are also European citizens. So when Cyprus joined the EU, it joined as the whole island and the EU recognized all citizens including Turkish Cypriots as European citizens.
@@chrisangelidis4322 Yes but in the real world that does not work.
@@UNAL0504 tf are you talking about? I said they own ids and they are European citizens. What real world are u talking about? An average Turkish Cypriot has a Turkish ID and passport , a Cypriot ID and passport and because they own a Cypriot ID it automatically makes them European citizens which means they can travel anywhere in Europe just by showing their Cypriot ID just like every European citizen. What real world are u talking about?
Self determinación para los Turcos chipriotas Ya !
I think you are missing the only important point about this "why" question.. Simple reason is Turkey doesn't want its Northern Cyprus' recognition as an independent state. Otherwise, Turkey can easily make its allies like Azerbaijan, Qatar, Somalia, Libya, to recognize TRNC in a day... Pakistan, and every Turkic nation would recognize it in the following month.. Then muslim world, then put political pressures to former allies like US and potential new allies like Russia to get one of them recognize it.
But no.. This present situation makes Northern Cyprus entirely dependent on Turkish support. In other words, a puppet state of Turkey.. Turkey can build naval ports or airbases at will, make military drills at will. Tomorrow Turkey may want to transfer S-400 battery there and no one can do anything about this.. This situation serves Turkey a lot more than an independent state; which may say "no" at some point.
While sorry a** excuse is stopping the "occupation" as they label it, UN actually promotes uncontested Turkish rule in the island. Since Greeks refused unification, TRNC independence should have been recognized... They were the ones faced Greek coup. They were the ones risked annexation to ethnically opposing state. They were the ones killed for the second time in the hands of Greeks. They still accepted Annan's UN unification plan and Greeks refused it. 40 years later, UN keeps torturing those people for no good reason. I HIGHLY doubt things would have been same if Turks made the coup, tried annexation with Turkey, then massacred Greeks (for the a second time in 10 years). Then Greece invaded the islands to save Greeks and Greek side declared independence. Then accepted unification only to be refused by Turks, would not the EU states recognize that greek state? An impossible proposition... Speaks highly of what values of these civilized states uphold...
Its just one country occupied by Greece and turkey
As turkish I am fine with its unification as long as both communities are accepted by each other.
if not... 2 small countries are just fine
sadly 1 of them is literally not recognized.
Greeks say its their own land but... by that logic we should better pack our backs and return to steppes XD
no one can deny there are turkish people living there and it was fine under greek goverment... but they did. As someone not fond of our past I also ask what was the other option?
Even europe ignored it since there was a possibilty of cyprus siding with USSR back in day.
lets be honest, Greeks at island obviously pointed out they dont want turks to be there and they are not talking about soldiers but normal citizens and they proven it by while turks being ok with reunification greeks dont
what should happen right now is they either form a federal goverment, united cyprus with 2 states that govern themselves for easier transport and trade or they remain seperated and become allies of each other. But as long as 1 reject the other both will only suffer
Cause Cyprus is Greek
Even down to the name..
Augustus C. ???
Cyprus for Cyprus only,.
@@mehmetmehmet4277 Cyprus is Greek because Greeks are there.Where do you think they came from? 😂😂😂 turks came from Mongolia 🇲🇳 Cypriots came from Greece
@@mehmetmehmet4277 from ancient to Byzantine times it was Greek even in the Roman Empire it was ruled by Greeks
In hindsight Cyprus should of just remained as a British protectorate. Greece and Turkey had too much skin in the game to respect independent Cyprus. Uk just wanted a conveniently located airfield.
Northern Cyprus is a de facto state, and will remain. KKTC 🇹🇷🌹❤️🌺
You mean it will remain a de facto state? That’s not much of an existence.
Existing is not the same as having much of an existence. You may have gone there from the UK, but many young TCs have left and are leaving. And don’t believe the stuff being said about gaining recognition. It’s not going to happen. Apart from Resolution 541, no country is going to antagonise the EU by doing this. It isn’t worth it. The RoC will hold up any future agreements. Moreover, the more hardline the TC leader, the harder it is for the TRNC to be accepted. Believe me, I’ve been working on Cyprus for 30 years. (7 published books on the issue.) Either Tatar goes back to the table, or the TRNC remains stuck - or annexed by Turkey. The best hope for the TCs is reunification. The best option for the GCs is the same.
@@JamesKerLindsay The north is a sovereign country, the unification failed under Annan. The north will not find a Turkish minority among Greeks on the island. The south has no right to represent the whole island. If everyone has good intentions for a solution then we have to start accepting the facts that the north is a state.
The north part of Cyprus is OCCUPIED by Turkey since 1974 . MILITARY OCCUPIED! ..the majority of ALL THOSE ARE OUR STOLEN PROPERTIES! ..HOW you people still living like this ? like nothing happens ! ..WE MUST ALL LOOK for JUSTICE SOLUTION ! the island should be UNITED again. Your politicians, and the elite around them DON'T WANT SOLUTION . Most probably they're huppy of what they get from the kat/share of our homes. hiding behind Turkeys arms asking for more and MORE . Buck at 60s .. with the beginning of our common REPUBLIC , you had ..as a minority of 18%.. rights like you were 30%-40% and yet you " blow them UP" .. Now , ..what do you want ? 50%-50% .. ! is ridiculous..demanding this ...you should know that ..NOBODY CAN BUILD A NEW STATE ON STOLEN PROPERTIES ! .. what is it this ..? .. you people act like ..THIEFS !
PLEASE search in you tupe about " Rauf Denktash's shocking confession ".. read and the comments below...THE TRUTH is there
Honestly why not sit Greece and Turkey down and agree to a permanent partition with 2 separate nations on Cyprus? I think the Turks are getting kicked in the balls on this matter.
Turkey conquered Cyprus at year 1571 , since that time Anatolia oriented Turkish Cypriots are living at Cyprus. Gerek Cypriots know this well , thats why Gerek oriented Cypriots and Turkish oriented Cypriots established 1960 government together, after riots happened against last UK emperialism. However Greek government refused the situation send troops to Cyprus . They finished Makarios Government . Than Greeks started to kill Turkish oriented Cyprus citizens. Greek Cyprus nationalist radical groups called EOKA helped them . Finally to protect Turkish oriented Cypriots Turkish government sent troops to Cyprus. Thats the situation. İnstead UN recognised Greek oriented Cypriots at government. Thats not fair. So if anybody expect gas is only right to Greek Cypriots its the part that we will argue , fight.
You are misinformed my friend. Parts of what you said is true but the majority is inaccuracies but go ahead and believe what you like. I understand that you are from north Cyprus. I will only comment on your last sentence. The gas belongs to the Greek/Cypriots and the Turkish/Cypriots. It does not belong to Turkey. Turkey does not give a fuck about Turkish/Cypriots, they never did. They are only looking after their interests. Just like Greece does not give a fuck about Greek/Cypriots. When you all wake up and understand this, the island will stand a chance.
Well
I'm afraid you are telling the story the wrong way...!
Brow..!
The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our country CYPRUS since 1958!
Through your community , ! Turkish Cypriots , .
A minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state at early 60 's ...
Yet ,they blew them UP following instructions from Turkey.....
TAKSIM plans..!
TMT.!
our compatriots Turkish Cypriots they actually took the arms against their own state....
for proofs PLEASE search about..
" Rauf Denktash shocking confession ".!
&
" Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde "!
Sorry, but I have to ask: what is it with Greek Cypriots and this really strange punctuation. You are the second or third one I have seen doing this. (Or the same one who was banned?) It really is odd. And, forgive me for being direct, but it also makes you look a little deranged. You would make a far better point if you just wrote normally.
@@JamesKerLindsay
mr.James..!
I'm just a taxi driver..!
I know well of what happened to my country CYPRUS..!
this is my level in the English language..!
I just want in a few words to give as much informations I can give....
ALL the BEST ..!
whenever you'll be found yourself on the island..
I "own" you a ..souvlaki with beer ..!
BROW .
.. keep doing your right ..work !
ALL the BEST
..I never gonna say that ..we the Greek Cypriots were angels..!
... Bud , knowing that I lost my village , ..our family house.. the half of my country , just because some people wanted to satisfy Turkey...
( through Greece , to develop the British plans for...the island to be divided....
This is something I will never except it.....!
NEVER EVER ....!
James your to biased towards the Greek Cypriots you have made the Turkish Cypriots the bad guys .This is how Europe portrays Turks .
So Tell me if you like...
Do you know that the north part of CYPRUS is occupied by Turkey since 1974.?
MILITARY OCCUPIYED AREA..!
the majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties
@@andrigeogiou8420 The Turkish Cypriots are free and safe from Greek brutality and oppression .Who did it belong to before the British and before that the Ottomans .
" brutality and oppression . " ..of the Greek Cypriots !
are you a teenager..?
..your community was a .".paine in the ass " for us Greek Cypriots ...!
Your community actually , even if as a minority of 18% , been found with rights like they were 30%-40% with the establishment of our common state ..at early 60's ..!
Yet , you blew them UP following instructions from Turkey....!
remember....?
Do you know anything about..?
..well
I'll give you .. people from your kind to inform you better .
PLEASE
search about.
" Rauf Denktash shocking confession "..!
&
" Dervis Ali Gavazoglu kendi sensinde ".!
..the second one ..was a Turkish Cypriot journalist , a hero..! been murdered by your people just because he was saying the truth...!
The truth .! ..bro.!
Can you believe it. !
Come on now ..
Brow..
The north part of Cyprus, is occupied by Turkey since 1974
MILITARY OCCUPATION
The majority of all those are still our stolen lands and properties.
You all have this illusion, .that good God bless you, ..giving you our homes ..
STOLEN LANDS !
Can you understand this
Lol golabal recognition, who cares...
Have to ask: are you Turkish or Turkish Cypriot? In my experience, it tends to be mainland Turks who take this sort of view. Recognition matters when you have a passport few countries will accept, football teams that can’t play internationally, universities that can’t form international cooperation, etc. Easy to say “Lol, who cares about global recognition”. But in truth it does matter. I stand by my point, the TCs did themselves no favours by unilaterally declaring independence.
@@JamesKerLindsay okay, idk where to start but here we go,
1- i am not a mainland turk nor recognize myself as "Turkish cypriot" i am just, cypriot.
2- it takes literally less than an hour to cross to Greek side, get a "republic of cyprus" passport and here you go, individual global recognition.
3- "universities are not globally recognized" this statement is wrong. İn 2004 Turkish side said yes to Annan plan but Greek side said no, and UN decided that an agreement would not be reached if both sides are economically levelled. The commercial and educational bans to north cyprus then were cancelled. Some of my friends after graduating from EMU(our oldest University and golabally recognized :)) did their masters degree in your school sir. So you sould be a bit ashamed for not knowing that i guess.
4- As a British you should be the last to talk about our problem as British started this mess in the first place.
5- have you ever been to north cyprus? If not please come visit and see how much shit we give about "global recognition"
Thanks. I think you’ll find that I know a little bit about Cyprus. I lived on the island for many years. I wrote my doctoral thesis on Cyprus. I have published 7 or 8 books on Cyprus and the Cyprus Problem, including on recognition issues, including this global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=ro&lang=en& I’ve also served as an advisor to the UN and various governments. Seriously, on Cyprus, I think it is safe to say that I really do know something about it! 😉😀
Northern Cyprus belongs to turkey
opposing it
everybody should look for holes to escape
Not sure I understand what you are saying!?
Turkish irredentist 🙄
I think you’ll find that actually Northern Cyprus is recognised internationally by every member state of the UN. De facto. And it is not a “breakaway territory” of any country. From the titular claim to the very get-go this video is loaded with baseless untruths that I dare say border being downright dishonest and misleading.
Sorry. But thus is utterly ridiculous. I’m not sure what Cyprus issue you’re following, but it’s certainly not the one I’ve followed for 30 years, did my PhD on, and written 7 books on! global.oup.com/academic/product/the-cyprus-problem-9780199757152?cc=us&lang=en&
Seriously, this is a laughably silly comment in every way. 🙂
@UCVEXB3T_wtoUp3AA9yfWUsA Seriously, this is ridiculous. I. have. Published. Seven. Books. On. Cyprus! I have written my doctoral thesis on the issue. I have advised the UN and the British Government on it. I have lived there. And I co-edited the main academic journal on Cyprus. I am also an accepted authority on the subject of state recognition. I can assure you that if you had done any serious research on Cyprus, you would know exactly who I am! (I know this sounds arrogant, but after an entire career spent working on Cyprus, and in the face of obvious nonsense, I’ve earned the right.) So, I don’t believe you have written anything serious on it, as you claim. And certainly not an MPhil!
@UCVEXB3T_wtoUp3AA9yfWUsA Seriously, this is ridiculous. I. have. Published. Seven. Books. On. Cyprus! I have written my doctoral thesis on the issue. I have advised the UN and the British Government on it. I have lived there. And I co-edited the main academic journal on Cyprus. I am also an accepted authority on the subject of state recognition. academic.oup.com/book/25433 (Published by Oxford University Press.)
I can assure you that if you had done any serious research on Cyprus, you would know exactly who I am! (I know this sounds arrogant, but after an entire career spent working on Cyprus, and in the face of obvious nonsense, I’ve earned the right.) So, I don’t believe you have written anything serious on it, as you claim. And certainly not an MPhil!
@@JamesKerLindsay (1) I know who you are very well, as well as everything you’re describing yourself to be, (2) provide me with an email address and I will send you my MPhil certificate in privacy, (3) again, trying to compare yourself as a means of dismissing my contributions as “ridiculous” is meaningless, and again it’s a personal attack which I’ll have to continue ignoring, but respond positively and I will be happy to share some of my insights into the Cyprus Problem with you.
And I could very well be a “nobody” as you’re trying to paint it, let’s give you that, and you know what, I wouldn’t mind that at all, I don’t need to prove myself to anyone, but again, you have lived there, that doesn’t mean you know it. Or maybe you can go to the TRNC-GCASC border and also tell me that doesn’t exist? The treaties? Constitution? None of that exists either? All the UN reports? Cross-verified observations and articles from scores of independent journalists and reporters that documented everything? Non-existent? The UNFICYP and what mandated them? The UNSC meetings and resolutions? Correspondence between various heads of state? The sudden, violent and illegal seizure of power by the Greeks in 1963? That never happened? The various Turkish Cypriot administrations that existed following? All the mass graves that were dug up in the presence of the UN & co.? They don’t exist either? An attempted genocide committed pursuant to numerous written plans i.e. Gronthos, Akritas, Aphrodite, Iphestos, and that have all been cross-verified and authenticated by multiple strong reliable sources. Is that all “ridiculous”? Is that what you’re suggesting?
@@officialmustafaniyazi Don’t play the victim here. You’re the one who started claiming that I was wrong.