Nightwish - The Poet and the Pendulum Wembley 2015 (Reaction / First Listen!)
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- #nightwish #thepoetandthependulum #nightwishreaction #musicreaction
Alright guys, I wanna say here is "the big one" cause you all hyped it up so much and I can see why! I know this is a lot of people's favorite, so instead of asking you to let me know what you thought of it, I'm just gonna ask you to tell me why you like it! Lyrics, meaning, mood? All of it? Let me know! 😊
Link to original video:
• NIGHTWISH - The Poet A...
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You're right, nothing would have been the same without Tarja. I personally prefer Floor because of her versatility and personality, but don't get me wrong, I love all Nightwish eras, I just love it more with Floor
Yep, Tarja was the first singer. This song was recorded with Anette on the 2007 Dark Pasion Play album. Basically, it's about Tuomas' feelings of depression caused by the huge fan backlash after letting Tarja go. Even the Finnish Prime Minister commented. Yes, a hugely personal song for him. Often , Tuomas would have the sound guys remove the vocals from his in ears. It takes inspiration from Poe's The Pit and the Pendulum.
We can speculate all we want, those involved are the only ones that know for sure what happened, and they have all moved past this..
In this video ,near the beginning, the part that stuck out to you, you see Emppu go ask Tuomas how he is doing. At the end ,Emppu and Marko go to him in a show of support. Floor even pauses and looks over to him before saying Thank You. Floor wanted to take over all the operatic parts, but Tuomas wanted to keep the boy soprano at the beginning.
First words of the song- The End, last words - The Beginning.
The lyrics in the last section are some of the words Tuomas' mother said to him when he went home.
My take on the "1000 pages of erased text" is that is all the songs Tuomas would have written for Tarja had the split not happened.
Correct, the song is no longer played live. Don't worry about your video being so long. I've seen reacts to this song over an hour.
Next at Wembley, 2 songs you have heard, Nemo and I Want My Tears Back.
Exactly, thank you
I'm not ashamed to admit that this is my favorite song, this version of it, and I shed at least a single tear every damn time. I can't explain how deep it cuts. Also, shout out to Nightwish, the only band that has songs that come with required reading.
Such genius. Tuomas’s magnum opus in my opinion. Nice job Nikki.
Thank you, and yes I agree - so good. 🥹
I concur
Thank you an excellent reaction. The roller coaster ends so beautifully and emotionally with words of love from his family gets me every time and it is Floors incredible vocals that fill my heart for Tuomas. What an epic song
So good. And thank you 💛
Such a masterpiece.
Great reaction from you 👍.
As all other Nightwish songs, this is written to be individually interpreted!!
And many people who has had a deep personal depression, knows what the music and lyrics are describing. The myriads of different thoughts running through the mind - the deep falls etc etc.
This is a brilliant composition including lyrics, telling the story about getting rid of a deep depression. And no one else than Floor can do this song true justice!
You were not wrong, Emppu was checking on Tuomas. And in the very end Emppu and Marko, there remaining signers of the letter, stand together there with Tuomas.
I do not think so. They played this song many times during the tour. Do you really think that Tuomas is such a "snowflake" who needs moral support from the band members every time in the same part of the song?
This reminds me of another nonsense about the live video of "The Carpenter" from Buenos Aires, where some fans also speculated when Emppu approached Tuomas on the left side of the stage during the song, and Marko and Floor were standing near Troy on the right - some people decided that this was not accidental, but because Tuomas and Emppu were the only ones from the original line-up the band that recorded that song. 🤦♂
@SokolRock Fool you.. checkout their interview & youl see from words they say they were checking on him during this Poet And The Pendulum performance ! But if you want to go argue with the band & what was said in the interview go ahead fool ! He was thinking of suicide prior to penning this masterpiece.
@@stevewilson8752 Tuomas: “I was never suicidal, it wasn’t even close, but I was in a really dark place. It was the worst period of my life. Call it depression, but not suicidal. I want to make that clear.”
It seems to me that regarding the interview you are talking about, you probably also misinterpreted their words, as in the case of Tuomas' "suicidal thoughts".
@@stevewilson8752 What do you think Tuomas is responsing in words to Emppu in this particular performance?
Coz knowing that would totally change your view what's actually going on at stage in Wembley 2015 live during "The Poet and the Pendulum"...
It's NOWHERE near :"are you okay män? Don't do anything permanent pal, pliis..." 😹
( "Who's 'name - bashing' another, usually is that within itself" )
#JariJuslin
Kaima Jari voi aina lisätä tuohon kommenttiin mitä Holopainen vastaa Vuoriselle tuossa kyseisessä tilanteessa, kun suomalainen sen kuitenkin aika selvästi näkee... 😉👍
This song, for me, is one of the big three ("Ghost Love Score" given us by Tarja, "The Poet And The Pendulum" given us by Anette and "The Greatest Show On Earth" given us by Floor), and for Nightwish fans , this song is the most meaningful...This songs backstory is deep and dark , especially for Tuomas (suicide by song).
And yet, Floor took this song to a new astral level (originally sung by Anette). Also I recommend to read "The Pit and The Pendulum" by Edgar Allan Poe for extra flavor.
The reason for Tuomas’s depression was not the firing of Tarja itself, it was what came after that. The fans idolized Tarja and they could not accept the fact that she got fired. In their heads Tarja was the one that made the band famous and they became really angry and hostile, especially towards Tuomas. They really took it out on him. They called him all kinds of ugly things and a lot of them expressed that they did not care if he would die. These are the things that brought him into depression and these are the things that echo through the lyrics...
This song has the most emotional impact, at least for me... I was that that "Bastard" who abandoned Nightwish after Tarja left...Never Again !!!!
Although I love this song (Especially this version), it is the only song, I can't put to my playlist... because, I break down to tears every single time (Current reaction included...).
This masterpiece will remain a reminder to me for my narrow mindlessness...
NWSU/FloorFan 🤘😎🤘.
Lovely reaction! This is Tuomas's (keyboardist ands main composer) most personal and emotional song. It is also very personal and emotional for most fans. In 2005 the band had reached a breaking point with their first lead singer, Tarja. Things between her, her husband/manager and the band had been deteriorating for some time and had reached the point where they could no longer work together. The band decided to fire her, which they did via an open letter, right after the End of an Era concert. Tarja responded with her own open letter explaining her side of things. The backlash against the band, but mostly against Tuomas, was massive and very nasty. Tuomas felt betrayed by Nightwish's fans and sank into a deep depression. He wrote this song as way of expressing and exploring all of the emotions of that time, again more about his depression from the fan's reaction then about loosing Tarja. I highly recommend you read the analysis of this song by the artist Annike Hausen. IMO it is a brilliant, master's level analysis and I think you would really enjoy it. I would provide a link but every time I do the YT algorithms delete my comment. Just google her name and Poet and the Pendulum.
Yes Emppu and Marko come over and check in on Tuomas through out the song to make sure he is ok emotionally. Tuomas has said that when they played this song he is right back in that place emotionally. He would often have the sound engineers turn off the vocals in his in ear monitors because it would make him too emotional.
"One last perfect verse but still the same old song." For me this is Tuomas saying I have nothing new to write for my so called fans, which is like death for a poet like him.
The line " A thousand pages of erased text" represents all the songs that Tuomas would have wrote for Tarja but know would never be heard. The blade falls (Tuomas making the slashing motion across his neck). The heart beat slows and finally stops mid beat. The original version of Nightwish is dead.
The last part of the song, Mother and Father, gets me every time. The lyrics are actual words spoken by his parents during the depths of his depression. Floor perfectly channeling the pain and anguish of a mother who has lost her child. I get weepy every time. Then the words, In the Beginning, signaling the birth of a new version of Nightwish.
This is my favorite Nightwish song, mainly for the emotional connection to Tuomas that it evokes in me. I am so grateful that he chose to write this song and share this part of himself with us. Everything about this song and performance is all about creating the emotion.
I agree that the open letter was a little harsh but I think the guys anticipated what a mess firing Tarja was going to be and the had zero trust in Tarja's husband not spinning the firing in the press to make them look bad. My guess is they thought publishing the open letter would allow them to get their side of the story out first . There are still some old Tarja era Nightwish fans who are very loyal to her and will downplay Annette and especially Floor's contributions. Do a Nightwish song with Tarja singing and they will show up in the comments. As a child of divorce I don't listen to those who are only fans of one singer or the whole Tuomas/Tarja debate. I love all of them, cherish them for what they have created and don't listen when the commentors start being critical of the others.
@@rnowak85 I wholeheartedly agree
@@rnowak85 Hear hear!! 100% agree.
Every singer had a hand in the evolution and the journey Nightwish made. I'm not the biggest Tarja fan, I can't listen to her for more than an hour without getting a headache but I appreciate her and every single note she sang and every contribution she made to the band and she's on my Nightwish playlist. In some songs she can't be beaten by Annette or Floor, imho.
@@mariogansbeke I agree. Some songs I like one singers version better than the others. Other songs I like their performances equally. I have noticed that I tend to prefer the first performance I hear.
NightWish Army Wisconsin Chapter here. Only Tuomas’s pain can be transformed into, what I think, is the GREATEST musical composition ever written. This is absolutely a Masterpiece! Glad you enjoyed this piece of art! ❤🤘
I can't even callmyself a chapter only Nightwish fan I know of in my area and I freaking love them discovered them when I ran away from at 15, that band basically raised me almost eveyrthing about me is Nightwish crafted being a hardcore femenist how I found Evenescence, Within Temptation they were my gateway into Symphonic Metal I like kamelot since I was young but thats a bit different not relly Symphonic metal more Neo Classical Metal less emphasized by orchestra.
@@digitalmouse3314 it may only be you in your area, but it only takes 1 to become a chapter. I started saying wisconsin chapter, because I am from wisconsin and I love NightWish. Not long later, more Wisconsin fans started emerging, some I am now friends with. Start your chapter and be proud, you never know who will eventually discover NightWish in your area and will love to know that they are not alone in your area either. ❤️🤘
I am the personal guard of Queen Floor.... every chapter is welcome!
This song is very personal to me.
I'm 51 years of age and I cried at the last part. Not for Taria but for my parents I lost. I suffered from depression too, after about two years I was back! So I guess I know what Thuomas went through. Thankfully Thuomas had his parents to talk to him.
So much beauty and artistery in here, blows my mind away...
Hi Nikki, greetings from UK where it is now 2:40am 😁
I wanted to wait up for this reaction as the song is so different from the songs you have listened to so far and I was excited to see your take on it
This was a fabulous reaction, thank you! 😊
I think you got everything about the song, and you understood why a little look into what the song was about before viewing it was a good idea with this one
Aw thank you! Glad you enjoyed it and yes - I can see why people wanted me to look into this song. 😊
This is perhaps the most impressive and beautiful song from Tuomas, our metal Mozart. Great reaction Nikki 🤘😊 Mod.: Notice Emppu checking Tuomas, 3 minutes and counting...and after that.. 😪...Marko and Emppu rallied aroud Tuomas at the end ❤ Mod2: The song begins with The End and ends with The Beginning.
So beautiful 💛💛
Great reaction and good analysis N. - I love the way the band members show their support to Tuomas during the song and how Floor looks at him tenderly for a long time after the song has finished.
It's not EXACTLY about Tarja's departure. It's about the consequences. That break-up was a real messy one and it created a lot of tensions, around the band. It got so messy that even Finland's prime minister talked about it. All that brought Tuomas into a deep depression, to the point he even considered suicide. He says he killed himself in the song so that he wouldn't do it in reality.?
Also if you wanna piece of Tuomas' genius songwriting, go to 06"56 on the song's video, that the moment where there the line "I only have 3 minutes and counting". Now, just go 3 minutes forward, up to 09'56" and watch
An honest reaction for sure. Knowing the backstory is easier to dissect this but also if you are one that has gone thru depression will get the story of this masterpiece more so than others. I did like the fact you picked up on a few lines of lyric that stood out to you. It is a song to listen to a few times over to realize how deep this song really is. As each section is part of Tuomas’s journey of his depression period and without Floor singing, this song isn’t as impactful. Nothing against Annette in her abilities to sing this. Floor has that “IT” factor to deliver such a song! Watching this performance for the first few times, I was in tears. Because I shared many emotions to relate to Tuomas’s state of mind. It was like the song was made for me and could fell every emotion that came outta Floors mouth. The musicianship is incredible too. I can’t recall any other song past or present that has the emotions into it as this. I’ll say this, Poet and The Pendulum saved me and will always be my favorite song of all time. With that said, I did get a tattoo recently of the pendulum cover art with part of the lyrics to commemorate my dark period. I know Tuomas (in his interviews saying) has since gotten over his dark days as to the band members and I. I wanted to others to see it and be a reminder of how strong I fought to be still here today. As did Tuomas! To spread the word of DEPRESSION the silent killer is among us and you are not alone. Going back Tuomas….. Dunno whom could go through hell and then write his soul into a song to bare his trouble soul?? Absolutely genius and did he ever think for a second he’d also help others in the same breath. I wanna thank him personally if I ever had the chance!
I’d ask you to revisit this song with the lyric video. It may help you in real time of how Floor delivers each line of the song that is SO with the spoken parts between each of the sections.
Army Division Member of Alberta 🇨🇦
Your engagement in this part of the story of Nightwish showes in this genuin reaction. Your interpretation adds a lot to the understanding of the lyrics. The momentum of this was in 2005. It shows the impact of the events that occured in this time. And luckily more happens with Nightwish until our time. Thanks!
Great reaction, many thanks👍🏻
Tuomas borrowed heavily from "The Pit and The Pendulum" when he wrote this, which is a short story written in 1842 by Edgar Allan Poe. The story describes the psychological torment of a prisoner during the Spanish Inquisition who is publicly tortured and executed for opposing the Catholic Church. The prisoner is trapped in a dark, rat-infested room with slippery, sloped floors leading to a Pit with a swinging Pendulum above. The Pit signifies Death, the Pendulum represents Time and the sloped floors, rats and darkness symbolise Fear.
The protagonist of the story opposed the Catholic Church because he was angry with God for taking away his birth mother, adopted mother and wife with plague and disease.
I wonder whether Toumas's anguish was NOT due to the fact that he fired Tarja (the original singer) from the band, but because he felt he was being publicly tortured and executed by his so-called fans for doing so.
I also wonder whether the song was arranged into 5 parts to reflect the 5 stages of grieving: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.
An awesome musical adaptation of classical literature.
This is one of my favorite songs ever, and I absolutely love it, Floor is an amazing storyteller and she can put a lot of her emotions into the songs and expresing Tuomas feelings in this song
It's so good! 💛💫
He continued to write songs from his heart for Tarja. Yet she was moving towards her our career and not really invested and feeling his musical compositions. Thus "One perfect verse - But still the same old song". Tuomas felt the decision to part with Tarja would cause his dream of Nightwish to fade into history and be forgotten. "1000 pages of erased text".
The flow of the song is based on the mental state of mind of one who contemplates suicide. It is also based on the mental anguish portrayed in the famous EA Poe short horror story "The Pit and the Pendulum". A story and mental journey about impending death.
I think you have a good idea about how these dramatic events unfold. It is like a marriage. If you partner tells you they are going to leave you it changes your relationship. Music is more than a 9-5 job. You must be all in or you are out.
Tuomas Holopainen (keyboards) wrote a bulk of the music and lyrics for Nightwish... it was his vision and drive that gave the band its success. Many people took shots at the guy for sacking Tarja Turunen (the original singer) cos he was 'in love w/ her' (which was not true at all)... If u watch the Nightwish documentary 'End of innocence'... Tuomas spoke about his struggles creatively and personally (This was while Tarja was the singer) He felt that the 1st 2 Nightwish records was a labor of love for him... he was writing the songs he wanted to make and expressing himself on his terms... But by the 3rd album ('Wishmaster'), Tuomas felt like he was writing songs to make a record label and fans happy; he had lost his innocence and felt disillusioned going into the 4th album 'Century Child' in 2002... a lot of that album's songs were about anger, hopelessness and despair ('End of all hope' ... 'Slaying the dreamer' ... 'Dead to the world'... etc.) Tuomas considered disbanding Nightwish after 'Century Child'... but found hope again as he wrote the 5th album 'Once'.
The drama w/ Tarja was business... she was becoming the star of Nightwish and started making demands through her husband as her personal manager - separate travel arrangements... separate dressing rooms... more money... more accommodations... Tuomas had known Tarja since she was a teen and they were friends; but now, she was holding the Nightwish enterprise hostage and that was disappointing to him as a friend and colleague. She canceled a US tour in 2005 because of the money... she declined to show up in rehearsals... she even canceled shows without notice... And then, she told the band that she would be focusing on a solo album after the tour.
For Tuomas in 2005, he felt like he had lost a friend and was losing his band as well... In the end, the decision was made to fire Tarja after the last show in '05... They went public w/ it the next day to tell their side to their legion of fans... Without a lead singer, Tuomas went into a depression and poured his frustration and disappointment into songs for the album 'Dark passion play'... Finally, they held auditions for a new singer and Tuomas decided he wanted to take Nightwish in a new direction, away from Tarja's operatic vocals - Anette Olzen made the cut and brought her pop-oriented vocals to the band... It worked for a while. Anette's first Nightwish album actually outsold Tarja's last album 'Once'.
I wasn't sure which one came first, Tarja or Anette - thanks for clearing that up. And what a story that came along with this song.. wow.
"I cannot cry for the shoulder cries more." is one of the most profound lines in music I have heard. It helped me through the deepest depression of my life following the loss of my Mother to Parkinson's and "Covid" at the height of the lockdowns, where I wasn't allowed to visit her in Hospice care. The "Shoulder" was my four younger siblings.
I'm so sorry for your loss. 💛 I'm glad you were able to find comfort through the music.
Excellent reaction! There is definitely a recommended progression when listening to NW. This is certainly a song where you need to know the back story. Incredible performance, as usual!
Thank you, and yes it was so good. 🥹
@@nikkireviews ,hey Nikki,always a pleasure to see your reactions to NW & Floor, just an FYI ,this song/composition is actually not about the band firing Tarja or the separation from her, it's about the harsh backlash Tuomas received from fans & media and how it affected him emotionally and this song is his way of dealing with it.
Great reaction Nikki. I believe this was the last time this song was performed live, and with Marko's departure I doubt it will ever be played again. Tuomas also has stated that it was his state of being at the time and he's moved on. Such a shame that this awesome piece of music will probably never be heard live again. Thankfully we have this amazing recorded live version to enjoy forever 😊
Yes, I watched an interview with him recently where he said that the times they did perform it, they asked the sound people to take the vocals out of his earpiece so he didn't have to hear it. 😢
I am a death worker, this is the Best tool for helping people through the 5 Stages of Grief anyone can use to help work through all forms of grief !! Total therapy
Hi Nikki.... I'm a 58 year old metal head, who fortunately just discovered this amazing band Nightwish with this once in a generation vocalist/performer Floor Jansen. After dozens of times watching this performance, it still brings me to tears...every time. Other songs same thing - tears and/or chills. Cant explain it, it just is. Something about Floor combining with that music. I e watched live videos with Tarja and Annette, and while theyyboth very good, i have no reaction like i do with Floor.
You're doing a great job with these Nightwish songs, love that you're doing the entire concerts. Keep up the great work. Love and Peace to you and your hubby ✌️🤘😊❤️
Thank you! And glad to hear you enjoy these performances as well! ☺️
This as with most Nightwish it needs many times listening to catch the depth to their music. Very nice reaction and insight Nikki.
hey Nikki,always a pleasure to see your reactions to NW & Floor, just an FYI ,this song/composition is actually not about the band firing Tarja or the separation from her, it's about the harsh backlash Tuomas received from fans & media and how it affected him emotionally and this song is his way of dealing with it.
Floor is the only one who is able to bring Tuomas emotions to live Here emotions are so strong in all she sings that it hit you hard each time again and againd
That why we love her so much
She hits your heart and soul ❤❤
Hey Nikki, you've got it. Probably, someone has already mentioned in the comments the following, but just in case.
Note: at the beginning (after the intro) the spoken words "The End"
Lyrics:
"I-cannot-cry-cause-the-shoulder-cries-more" - the shoulder to cry on is already crying. They have to be strong for the others even though they are going to break apart themselve, and they somehow have to hold it all in.
"Sparkle my scenery
With Turquoise waterfall
With beauty underneath
The ever free
Tuck me in beneath the blue" - This part sang by Floor, always brings tears to my eyes.
"For years I've been strapped unto this altar
Now I only have three minutes and counting
I just wish the tide would catch me first and give me
A death I always longed for." - take click on your stopwatch and see how Tuomas manage to "commit" suicide exactly 3 minutes after this.
The last chapter is based on what Tuomas mother told him while he was recupering from his depression. Note at the end of the spoken "The beginning"
"One last perfect verse is still the same old song..." Historically, very many of Tuomas's lyrics were written for Tarja to sing as "secret" messages to her that he hoped she would recognize and that that recognition would somehow change the inevitably unfolding progression of events that led to her dismissal from the band. In this suicide song, he is realizing that, with each new verse he penned, he imagined that THIS time he made it perfect, i.e., that she would finally recognize it was a plea to her but each perfect verse was merely that same old song... the thing he became that he hated.
The "two faces" line: Yes, you got it exactly right. In his case, the "face for the world" was the happy face of the stage performer that he showed to the "cold world" for whom he was akin to a "whore." His secret agony, misery, and sadness vis-a-vis unrequited romance, he reserved deep inside only for God to see.
The "1000 pages of erased text" refers to all the future songs he wanted to write for Tarja but now were all for nought and discarded.
The last section is supposedly what Tuomas's (TWO-oh-moss) mother said to him in real life after the press was so cruel to him for what he had done.
I don't recall if you have reacted to "Dead Boy's Poem" from Buenos Aires 2018 yet, but if you haven't I think you will similarly enjoy it in the same melancholy way. For, while Poet and the Pendulum (i.e., Edgar Allan Poe's Pit and the Pendulum) is the song in which he committed suicide metaphorically so he wouldn't have to do it in real life, Dead Boy's Poem can be recognized as the suicide note written years in advance and held in abeyance in case he ever needed it in the future.
This, in my opinion is one of the most epic performances of theirs, I can not get enough of it. I love your reactions. I can not wait until you get to The Greatest Show on Earth (I recommend the Tampere Version). I am a huge NW Fan but no expert... That said, I have seen other say that at the end of the song when Marko and Emppu go over to Tuomas it is because this song is very difficult for him and it is a show of their support which I think of every time I see it...
She's doing the entire Wembley concert. So, she'll see TGSOE from there first. Hope she will eventually watch the Tampere version too
Tuomas said in an interview that he had suffered from severe depression after the band fired Tarja and he would commit suicide in the song so that he would not have to commit such a suicide in real life.
Oh wow..😕💔
@@nikkireviews Fortunately, this song and Bye Bye Beautiful have been removed from the setlist forever, as a reconciliation has now taken place thanks to Floor.
There are other fans who will cite a different interview, where he claimed to not have been suicidal... Nikki, I suggest a 30min documentary called Masn Mainiot (in Finnish, English subtitles) which.shows Tuomas, going home to his parents...after firing Tarja but b4 writing this song...you can clearly see a man in pain.
actually he never said that in any interview, what he did say is that the song is his way of dealing with the harsh fan & media reaction and blame he received , he & and the band where not depressed over firing Tarja ,they where unanimous and content with decision.
@@Kelsea-2002 wonder if they ever play ''Master, Passion Greed'' live.
Amazing masterpiece. Thank you for a great reaction.❤
Thanks for watching! 💛☺️
floor really is angelic
She really is!
I think this is an absolute masterpiece, second only to "The Greatest Show on Earth," and one of Floor's greatest performances too.
This song is a masterpiece, and your reaction was exceptionally good.
Thank you, and yes! Such a good song!
This song always makes me reflect on how lucky we are as fans. In these moments back when Tuomas wrote this, he was contemplating suicide. He stated he killed himself in this song to keep himself from doing it in real life. Now, looking back on this song, I can't help but think how lucky we all are that he chose life, because eventually Tuomas found Floor and all the awesomness that is NW w/ Floor wouldn't have happened had he chose the darkness. Nice reminder for us all that sometimes, it is indeed darkest right before the dawn...
This was a great reaction you learning the back story helped you understand, I think you did a good job of understanding, when a band has been together for a long time they become a family.
Great reaction, you summed up everything really good at the end, agree with everything i guess, no doubt this is one of the best songs of the band with or without the context that gives a better experience, out of that there will always be 2 sides, and for sure the letter was an odd or harsh way to say things, and they didnt learn cause with Annette they did the same, only with so less repercussions, i like to think that no matter the side we are Tarja wasn´t going to continue so they let her go early, even in her response she doesn´t deny that fact, she was truly part of the band, so important that we still talk about her (i think 3 singers have had their eras and that has to be appreciated) but fortunately Tuomas and the band could keep themselves together and keep giving us music like they do, something i´ve always loved from them is the way they enjoy doing what they do, and if for some reason they are not in that place anymore thay part ways, but the band reinvents itself and keeps rocking.. for me for all that they are the best..
The story starts earlier. 2000 Nightwish tours with Sinergy. The mood in the band is bad and Tuomas names Syergy's boss Kimberley Goss two culprits: One is bassist Sami Vänskä, who has become an alcoholic. Marko is Sinergy's bass player and apes him during the concert. On the other hand it is Tarja. She tells interviews that she is only a temporary member of Nightwish and her "opera diva" attitude conflicts with the band's "rock star" attitude.
In 2001 Tuomas pushed Sami out of the band and poached Marko from Sinergy. Kimberley is angry and publishes the conversation. Tuomas denies everything and Tarja goes to Germany to study classical art singing. That feels good for her, but Tuomas wants more pop in the music and not more classical. After that they record two more LPs, but the relationship is getting worse and the breakup rumors are getting louder. In 2005 they traveled separately to the concerts and only met on stage. She had already prepared her solo career at this point and wanted a pause from Nightwish. The timing of the termination may have come as a surprise to Tarja, but not the termination itself.
There are 2 other songs on the Dark Passion Play album that addresses the split. Bye Bye Beautiful was directed towards Tarja. Master, Passion, Greed was directed at Tarja's husband. MPG has never been performed live.
There is really no way to over hype this song. It’s more than just a song, it’s a piece of art. You can’t help but get emotional because you know the words mean something. Tuomas took all of his anger and sadness about Tarja and what fans and the media were throwing at him and channeled it into writing a song about himself commiting suicide. It doesn’t get more real than that and you can’t help but feel for him and appreciate him putting himself out there. Also, Floor adds so much to this performance. I don’t mind Anette’s studio performance, but wow does Floor bring the emotional punch. It’s nothing short of a masterpiece
Sadly not sure will perform it again because Marko gone. His vocals will be missed. Floor performance is on another level. Her emotional performance is breath taking.
I didn't realize Marko was gone until just recently. 😟I really like him!
@@nikkireviews he quit in Jan. 2022. He sighted ongoing depression and family issues. Also problems the way music industry shafting bands. He has been performing again with other bands. His vocals cannot be replaced and Nightwish almost quit but decided to go on and Floor is really centerpiece of all Vocals with Troy doing some stuff. I hope you react to their last album. Have you? Fantastic songs!!! Human Nature album
You mentioned Emppu walking up to Tuomas and talking with him. Close to the end of the song when you mentioned about Tuomas singing along with the lyrics when the camara pans back to Floor you can see her looking back at Tuomas checking to make sure he is ok. The song is very emotional for him and Floor has a tendency to turn the emotion up to 10 when she sings.
Absolutely perfect reaction Nikki.
Thank you ☺️
Hi Nikki. Thank you for your kind words in your last message to me 😃You did good on this one, and your intuition did not fail you. Personally. I never knew the band before 2018, so all of the emotional turbulence of the previous years had passed me by. If I may be honest, had I known about the band when Tarja was at the front, I probably wouldn't have been a fan. I don't like her voice at all, but you are absolutely correct when you say that without Tarja, there never would have been the transition from Anette to Floor. Even Anette's departure wasn't without controversy, so maybe the lesson's that should have been learnt in 2005 went unheeded? I too agree with you about the open letter. It seems uneccassarily cruel, although had it remained between the five band members, it would have been perfectly acceptable. To publish it openly to the world, in my opinion, was a grave mistake, and this song captures perfectly the maelstrom of emotions that Tuomas felt over the matter. In effect, this is his metaphorical suicide, and the catharsis he was able to receive meant that (as far as I know) this recording with Floor in 2015 was the last ever public performance of the song. You did yourself proud this week, and I look forward to seeing your next post. Take care and be kind to yourself. Kevin x
its the little things i love. like Emppu with Tuomas. also, i got teary too, probably shouldnt be watching this at 4am in the UK eh, great reaction.
Thank you for watching! It is an emotional one.
I think when Tuomas wrote 'The Poet & the Pendulum'... he was unsure if there would be another Nightwish album. He was struggling w/ the fallout of his decision to fire Tarja and was uncertain if he had the will to do another record. But after a year or so of obsessing and writing... re-writing the songs & music, he finally reached a point in '06/ '07 when he said, "Let's look for a new singer."
The band actually auditioned singers to hear the new songs, rather that focus on past songs... That was how Anette Olzen joined Nightwish in '07 and did the 'Dark passion play' album.
Everybody saying that you need to check the backstory first is wrong. They read the open letter and maybe Tarjas answer. But then they go, and that does not explain this song at all. The song is about what happened after and how Thomas was feeling at the time. So see it read about after see it again then you really feel it
All Parts ...;confusion ..despare....anger ....acceptance.......InnerStsnding ....forgiveness ...to all ( including ourselves......❤...this is the Path ...4 every Soul ... and We can . As Tuomas.....innerstand .. Evolution 🔥🕊🩷🍁🦁✨️🪷
So many emotions
thank you for reacting to this Nikki .. Nightwish has much history
Thanks for watching. This was a deep one!
Great reaction. According to the band Tarja husband was pulling her away and she didn't like touring countries where the money they gained wasn't that worth it also she hardly showed up to band practice. According to Marcelo he made out Tuomas must be in love with Tarja?. Which started that rumour But in reality Tarja wanted to eventually leave as she wanted to do her own thing as she was trained in Opera/Classical music. As for Tuomas his heart was broken over the decision to ask her to leave but because Tarja and Tuomas where the founders of Nightwish along with Emppu they went to school together and where good friends. When in a band for as long as they've been it is like a relationship one that started falling apart towards the end everyone was hurting. As for the public letter?. They must of felt they had to why?. Well Nightwish was a national treasure in their country not just the fans were heartbroken but so was there government and the media got involved so it was a very big thing. Tuomas felt everyone turned against him all the public many fans and parliament he felt the band was over he's the most hated probably feared for his life, he felt used and abused in the lyrics a whore for the cold world. He had nothing left but to end his life.
Hi, very nice reaction, thank you
Thanks for watching! ☺️
I love this song, thanks
The swinging pendulums are a reference to Edgar Allen Poe's 'The Pit and the Pendulum", from which the title of this is derived. He's an amazing writer - I recommend reading that book (short stories).
Heard this song so many times and it still makes this 60yo tear up.
It was a messy divorce many events leading up to this breakup but as always tragedy and heartbreak lead to some of the best writing and I for one place this song with the very best ever written.
I found it very helpful watching this with the CC / lyrics on.
Even after listening to it a dozen times you will pick out nuances you somehow missed before.
There is a lot to unpack with this song, Imagine all the passion the nightwish army has for the band being directed at Toumas in disappointed angry vitriol, because that is how divisive firing Tarja was. She was the face of the band, and it was at a point where the band was about to break into the US market in a big way, At that point though she separated from the rest of the band with husband as the mouth piece, his interference really added to the lack of discourse and the threats of leaving at anytime. Reference the song MASTER, PASSION, GREED which is the anger by the band directed at Marcelo, Tarja's husband. Added fuel to what was burning. Toumas used Tarja as his muse, the instrument of his art, all music was written for her voice. Keep in mind the lyric "on the shore" references a camping trip in wbich the band was formed, I believe Toumas, Tarja, Emmpu and maybe Jukka were in attendence as founding members, Nightwish was formed in high-school. After her departure, which no one looked good or handled well a 1000 paged of erased text is a reference for the music in the next album which we never got, it was written for her and she would not be there to sing it. Annette Olson was very different than Tarja, it is unfair of us to expect her to sing classic back catalog nightwish music like Tarja, she tried though and made a hash out of it. A lot of Nightwish never accepted Annette as a result. Personally I think she crumbled under the pressure. She was excellent when she sung music written with her in mind and it is a shame that we did not get more of that instead of the failures. Floor replaced Annette mid tour as an emergency measure, it was clear that she was a better fit.
ok here we go again tissues ready 🐕
I concur .
I love Annette. Imaginaerum is my favourite nightwish album. Poet just had to be recorded when it was, with Annette as singer. BUT. Annette could not portray Tuomas anguish. It took the arrival of Floor to do the song ‘properly’, and, in my view, this is the definitive rendition. Floor simply LIVES every element of Tuomas emotion and anguish. You query ‘erased texts’. Surely the extra songs Tuomas had written for Tarja. Earlier you had referred to the departure of Tarja. But this was not just a band member being sacked. They had been to school together, been friends for years and she was a founding member of the band. Tuomas must really have loved Tarja ( generally agreed not a sexual relationship). And now it is ‘the end’. Yes there is so much going on. You use the word betrayal. I think that is spot on . Sound out ‘bye bye beautiful’ Tuomas ‘song directly to Tarja’ after the break up. That has strong feelings of betrayal, but his love for her show through in sadness rather than anger or hatred towards her.
The End. The Beginning. Great reaction, you really got it and gets what happened on stage. Thank you. This song is a masterpiece and at the same time I’m so glad they never perform this one again. Greets from Finland 🤘🔥❤️🙏🏻🇫🇮
Toumas actually retired this song from live play. The whole band agreed that it is just too hard for them to play live, because of the emotions.
I concur.
Understandable! ☹️
awesome reaction. This piece has a very special place in my life. I know the back story but this piece is also an anthem for those people with mental health issues such as depression with suicidal thoughts, Yep I am one of those! Also in the Pit and the Pendulum Poe talks about the point at which you both give up hope and accept the end, which you really get the sense of in this.
If I may I would like to give you my interpretation of the lyrics and what they mean to me.
The first part, which you note starts with the words the end!! Is taken from Stephen Kings Tower series, the white lands were the home of a type of vampire that fed on emotions, (empathy), so a person left feeling nothing, empty and without emotion.
In the second part, those lines expressing a feeling of futility, all same old same old yet, hating how you feel, then the verse seems to express the effort of trying to pretend to be ok, hence those two faces, one for everyone else and the real one that is private, no one to turn to for help as the people around you seem as upset as you so no shoulder to cry on so you just carry on pretending becoming that whore for the cold world. Then there is the remembering back to when all was good, yet you cannot get there despite everyone telling you “you are ok, it will be fine” till those words just sink you even further into the mess.
Then we have the Pacific, oh wow, the wishing and planning stage, the beautiful sea, just wishing it was over, that you could be under the waves, beneath the pain tucked into that beauty., last goodnight kiss and a valentine that ends everything.
Then that part that starts with being afraid, being raped, not in the traditional sense but feeling violated, alone and bloody scared, For Tuomas, feeling that those who he felt should have been there for him somehow betrayed him, a not uncommon feeling with severe depression, feeling that even life betrayed you, also again the mention of the tide and drowning, many see it as the perfect death!
On a side note here, three minutes and counting, yep exactly three minutes to the point that Tuomas simulates the blade.
Here also note how the music becomes chaotic, mirroring the thought process of someone planning their own death, no logic, well there is but only to the individual. Yet also a sense of excitement and of a journey, proceeding the calm.
Then the passion play, traditionally passion plays were performed at Easter and were about the death of Christ, and Tuomas plays with us a little here, “second robber to the right of Christ! Well at the crucifixion there was only one robber either side of Christ but in the painting The Last Supper the person second to the right of Christ is Judas!!!!!
Then of course the symbolic death and the slowing faltering heartbeat.
The beginning or last part of the piece are the words that brought Tuomas back from the edge. In his case words from his parents but many of us will have people who were there at just the right time and who cared enough to be the rock and love us enough to hold on.
If there is a message in this work surely it is to be kind, to look out for each other and if you can be there, you never know you may just save a person’s life. As someone did mine.
🤗🍒🤘🏻😘Yeahhhu Nik, this was one of those huh? Touching !!??
Masterful interpretation of a great song from Nigthwish and that has to do directly with the relationship between Tuomas and depression.
Regards Wolfie :)
Thanks so much! ☺️💛
Fantastic reaction Nikki, you really did justice to this masterpiece and it was great to see how engaged and excited you were during and after the performance 🤘
Great reaction video and I see you've improved your video production a lot, too. To further improve your production, maybe try moving your mic to the side a bit because it seems that your breathing sometimes causes rumble sound when the air hits to mic? (If you rapidly exhale through your nose and/or mouth, it shouldn't cause low frequency noise to mic if the mic positioning is good.) Another option is to just apply e.g. 36 dB highpass audio filter around 90 Hz in the post production over the whole voice track, assuming your original audio doesn't clip.
Thank you! I will try to adjust the mic a bit. I feel like it's not that complicated of a mic and I don't really change the settings that much but some videos it's great and then others it's like what happened. 🙈 I appreciate the tips though!
Beautiful song and great reaction! 😊
Since you like Nightwish so much I would strongly recommend the group 'Unlucky Morpheus'.
Not exactely similar, but I think Nightwish fans might enjoy them!
I think it's described as 'Neo-classical' (whatever that means exactely 😅) with a strong female singer and a violinist, but a bit on the heavier side.
'Unlucky Morpheus - Angreifer (live)' is the one I'd suggest first 😉👍
Hello
The song "The Poet and the Pendulum" is a 13 Minute journey through the mind and turmoil of Tuomas Holopainen after the year 2005. It was in that year the band parted with their long-time singer Tarja Turunen and had a personal falling out with her. The pain of the separation was big on both sides, and shown in this song. There is the responsibility that the band and Holopainen had to show towards the fans,. It was the End of an Era for them, and reason for Holopainen being lost as described in these lyrics. We can only of course to a certain degree suppose how much of these are truly Holopainen's feelings, wishes and pains - but we do know that the lyrics of Nightwish have been up to then very personal. Other songs on the album also digest this separation and falling out of the members with Turunen.
This is one of the interpretations and i know lots of fans do not agree, they just need to read the open letter that was given to Tarja by the whole band at her last concert with Nightwish, where they fired her. And the main reason that Tuomas went through a depression was that specially the Tarja fans where furious and showed that in the media and everyone was blaming Tuomas. (the fans spit on his grave). He felt the whole world was against him.
However personal and "real" these thoughts are, I feel like this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does.
The band remains through all it's shores and Oceans, one of my main favourites and I hold special place for the band in my musical heart. I hope you have enjoyed reading my analysis and share some of my thoughts. If you do have any comments, please feel free to let me know. And remember the beauty of interpretation is that it is subjective; we can see all and feel different things in the same song and continue to love it endlessly.
Lyric analysis by Annika Hausen
Greetings from the Netherlands
Love y reaction 😊 y are beaty…..
Thank you ☺️
When Anette lost custody of her kid(s) on the day of a performance, she lost it during this song and ran off stage. Dark Passion Play was a dark record with a song aimed at Tarja ("Bye, Bye, Beautiful") and a song aimed at her husband ("Master, Passion, Greed"), then there was this song. The album and the band were under a dark cloud according to Tuomas. When NW made the next album, everybody was excited - but there were issues building with Anette. I personally think the band was young and didn't really consider the ramifications of publishing the letter. She was handed a physical copy of the letter the night before. That should have been it if they were going that route. Publishing the letter was a little like trying to tar-and-feather her maliciously. She wanted to leave, why not just agree to buy out her contract, make a mutual announcement together, and move on? No, there was a massive fight that must have led to this and it must have been ugly. Tarja released her response in letter form, a public press conference, and in a song ("Enough"). There would be a lot of bitterness for years. Some people try erroneously to say Tuomas loved Tarja. I think rather the opposite. It is hinted at in this song. "Chose you all" - Tuomas put together Nightwish (formerly a folk band) and changed it when he chose someone he knew from school when Tarja was chosen. However, Tarja came to think that she contributed more than Tuomas. At that point, I feel that two leaders couldn't exist. The singer had to be part of the band or not. Tuomas was the band leader - he writes virtually all the music and relies on the band to help bring it to life - including whoever is singing.
What I've always wondered is what songs don't make the album. Dark Passion Play was planned to include Tarja and then things blew apart. Two songs (at least) were aimed at Tarja/husband. What would have gone in their place if Tarja had stayed?
To me, the three minutes and counting section has the angriest music and vocals than any other Nightwish songs besides "Master Passion Greed" or "Bye Bye Beautiful. Notably, they are all inspired by the same events.
Tuomas, (pron: TOO-oh-Moss) still had trouble w the.emotion of this song, even.10yrs later, at Wembley. He is known to have the vocal feed to his in-ear monitors turned off during this song.
Yeah, the public letter was harsh...but they were in their 20s. Also, media was constantly trying to link Tuomas and.Tarja romantically...which simply was never a thing...but had they just fired her privately, the press would have *forever* tried to call the situation, a live triangle, or a scorning... they had to be public...and decided that brutal honesty was the way forward.
Anette, btw, was fired for a different situation, but also caused some of the same Tarja drama. Straight out of Marko's autobiography.
🤩👌💥💯🎼
"The end....... The beginning"
And Helluwa Lot in between!
🤘😎 🇫🇮 💙
It really was! 😂🤘
Great Reaction!😢🤘🎸
Thank you!
Relationships end and it's hard for everyone.
Obviously Tuomas wrote about it like nobody else.
Amazing react Nikki.
Take care.
Thank you, and yep - Tuomas really writes songs in such a unique, dark yet beautiful way. 💛
Hi Nikki ☺️ The Poet is a Masterpiece without a doubt ! The Greatest Show On Earth is a Masterpiece : it's about Evolution and how We humans became to be on this planet & what we've done to it ! First was sea creatures & then plant life on land & then Animals & of course us humans & mushroom clouds of atomic bombs & war ! It's a Science Lesson In this epic Masterpiece song & I'm positive You will love it Nikki ☺️👍 Last Ride of The Day is another very good song ! I love everything Nightwish do BUT THE POET AND THE PENDULUM: THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH: & THE LAST RIDE OF THE DAY to me are Masterpieces on an Epic scale ! They are Theatre / drama & amazing story telling ! These songs i believe Separate Nightwish from all other bands ! Nightwish Disciple from Queensland Australia 😝🇦🇺🏄♂️🍹
Marko, and Empuu stand with Tuomos because of how personal the song is to him.
You made it through 😉 This was a great reaction, but I want to suggest that you should stop when you want to say something, then reverse 5-10 secs. That way you don't miss anything, and that is the way most reactors do it these days. And most of us won't mind even if you stop again after just few seconds. And this is only a suggestion, I can live with you talking while video is playing, but I know some people can't (and some don't like too much stopping either...so it's a bit of balancing...but I dare to claim that most people prefer stopping).
And yes, Nightwish would not be the same without Tarja (probably wouldn't even exist). And most people love Floor now, even most of the old Tarja fans. There are still some who left Nightwish and never came back. And some Anette era fans never came back either. Some people only listen to old Nightwish, some only new. And some of us love it all.
It's ok to love both Tarja and Floor era Nightwish. Many fans only came in during the Floor era and don't understand the history of how Nightwish evolved. Tarja was the face (front) of the band from the first albums. Yes , it takes a whole band and Tuomas was the soul of the band. But a lot of the praise went to Tarja. It's only natural for egos to clash with that dynamic. The introduction of Tarja's husband to the dynamic, I think, was the final straw. (I don't want to speculate on Tuomas's feeling for Tarja. I think more has been made of this than needs to be discussed.)
Since Tarja had already expressed her desire to leave the band after one more album, I think the band decided to act first and move on. Enter Annette (after a prolonged audition process) where Tuomas said he wasn't looking for a clone of Tarja, Annette's vocals were quite different and a shock to the system for a lot of Tarja era fans. What can be seen after Floor entered the 2012-2013 tour was that she was better at singing the Annette songs and was welcomed immediately as an upgrade to the band. But a lot of Tarja fans (myself included) took longer to come around.
People's emotions can cloud common sense and impartial discernment of the music. I think in my final analysis (and there's obviously more story to be told), Floor has won everyone over as the more perfect fit for Nightwish with her exceptional talent AND personality. But I still cherish many songs of the Tarja era sung by Tarja.
Finally, since it may seem I have disrespected Annette in all of this, she was a good fit at the time (for the studio albums. I did not care for her live performances). I think the Annette era showcased some of Tuomas's best songwriting.
Just for full disclosure, I was a fan of After Forever in the late 90s and 2000's also. Floor was amazing back then but I enjoy her even more with Nightwish now.
I hope one day i can see them perform this masterpiece ......
That would be amazing!
@@nikkireviews ive heard that theyll never perform it again
I don’t think they will.
@@Aenea-de9vy probably not
@@silverblack5475 Oh no? I've seen a few people say it was too emotional for Tuomas to perform regularly?
oh sweet Nikki, you will be shocked even more when you listen to this piece for a second time (with the lyrics!)
Sabaton is a swedish band and you look great❤
Thank you ☺️
My accumulated comments on this, my No 1 Nightwish song, and this performance...
Tuomas is a very special person and this is, for me, the pinnacle of his work.
Nothing surpasses it.
For him it is one of the deepest songs.
Quotes from the band on the making of the album and the song...
TUOMAS: We will never play "Bye Bye Beautiful" or "Master Passion Greed" live again, [sic] because the lyrics are just too unambiguous and personal. There was at least as much gloom behind "The Poet and the Pendulum", too, but it leaves a bit more room for interpretation. It's easily one of our best songs but especially, the "Mother and Father'" part in the end always stirs up such a storm of emotions that it's impossible for me to do it every night. Playing "The Poet and the Pendulum' is a real rollercoaster ride - it makes me feel anxious, blush, laugh, and, in the end, just happy that that part of my life is behind me.
My notes:
My number 1 Nightwish song and for good reasons.
(No 2, Song of Myself, No 3 7 Days to the Wolves.)
This is a deeply emotional and meaningful song with which I empathise and it helped me to see that there was a way forward when depression struck. I am not alone in being "saved" by Nightwish, a fact that Tuomas has referred to and said he could not terminate the band because he knows they have meant so much to some fans who feel their lives have been saved by Nightwish.
He feels that he has a responsibility to the fans - not your standard rock musician then.
Floor is worth watching closely, her facial, hand and whole-body motions reflect the emotions she is portraying. Hands in Mother and Father for example. Tearing her hair in the Dark Passion Play section.
Note that when Tuomas talks about "Poet" he is always referencing himself. It happens throughout his ouvre.
You will see other cross-references too. Tuomas does that deliberately to give the fans a sort of anchor. Meadows of Heaven is another example - a song in itself and often referenced.
For what it's worth, here are are my thoughts and interpretations...
End to beginning - death of one era of the band, beginning of a new era.
Regarding the end of the first Era, I see no point in the blame game.
The band split, that is all we need to know.
Whatever the causes there was bound to be emotion on both sides so I leave it at that.
But this masterpiece is what came out of Tuomas' emotions.
The beginning is a boy soprano, Guy Elliott who also does the spoken parts. The whispering at the beginning is the central spoken section, but played in reverse.
Then we get the whole section "Home".
I see the "shoulder cries more" as having no shoulder to cry on because the other members of the band - his friends - were equally upset.
The "whore for the cold world" I see as the selling of his whole life to the music industry (the metaphorical pimps, hence the "whore" references) which is not interested in the person, only what they can get from the band.
The two faces bit is self explanatory; almost everyone will have been in situations where they have to hide their feelings and present a false front to the world.
The reference to betrayal is again obvious and there are lots of metaphors in the surrounding words. The altar I think, is the tie to the band - these upheavals in 2004/5 were not the first time Tuomas had felt like ending the band.
By the way, note the 3 minutes and counting: exactly 3 minutes later you get the guillotine motion.
By the way, Marco made the demo version of this, with all the lyrics sung by himself and with harsher lyrics at this point too.
Next we get to the Mother and Father section with Floor, Marco and Emppu all sitting, while Floor sings lyrics reflecting the words from his mother when he went back home for a break in the middle of all this turmoil.
These are the words of love and then of advice, that he was given.
Floor here is using her finger movements to accentuate emotion.
This whole section and the way Floor sings it, is packed with those damned Onion Ninjas.
Marco's harmonies are wonderful.
We end with the final ethereal notes from Floor and here is another tingle-factor moment. Then a gentle piano ending, the calm after the emotional storm.
Here, as in Sparkle my Scenery, the choir on the original album is replaced by Floor who wanted to sing them herself (and proved completely capable of it) which Anette could not have done - she could probably get the notes but the emotion is there in the choral original and is amplified when Floor sings it.
The low brass used in many places is really effective.
On the performance itself:
When Emppu goes over to Tuomas and later both Marco and Emppu go over, it is a sign of moral support. They both know how difficult this is for him - eventually he had the vocals turned off in his in-ear, so he didn't have to listen to them because Floor put such emotion into them.
At the end, she does not say "Thank you" immediately, as she does normally. Instead she looks over for a few seconds to check on him from her position.
BTW, I have never bought the theory that Tuomas was "in love" with Tarja. Those who say he asked her to join the band because he knew her from school - she was suggested by Emppu who had known her as an acquaintance at school.
By the way, they NEVER play this now but it was played live 214 times, not 20.
I have seen so many people dive into this song like it’s a b side to some 45 at least someone gave you a heads-up
Yeah and I appreciate it. I feel like it's one where you need to know a little backstory before going into it.
este tema esta compuesto para la primer cantante de la banda tarja turunen y lo que el maestro sintió al apartarla de la banda. es un tema muy sentido para el. es mas en principio duraba mas pero para que sea comercialmente rentable lo acorto. fue un momento muy difícil para el. lo que no significa que para tarja no lo fuera es así cuando una pareja se separa si no cortas drásticamente luego influye en los seres queridos que serian la banda y los fans. gracias a dios siguen sonando y para mi con la mejor vocalista del mundo
This theme is composed for the first singer of the band, Tarja Turunen, and what the teacher felt when he separated her from the band. It is a very sensitive topic for him. In principle, it lasted longer, but to make it commercially profitable, I shortened it. It was a very difficult time for him. Which doesn't mean that for Tarja it wasn't, it's like that when a couple breaks up, if you don't cut it drastically, then it influences the loved ones that would be the band and the fans. Thank God they continue to sound and for me with the best vocalist in the world
👍👍
Don’t know if it’s actually what Tuomas meant with the “1000 pages of erased text”, but I always like to think those are the lyrics he had in store for Tarja but that will never be seeing the light of day.
That would make sense. 🤔
This is my favorite for a number of reasons. There is just so much to it, but lyrically, there's just so much too it.
“Forgive me, I have but two faces” is fascinating, for example, both for the words themselves and the way they’re constructed. “One for the World” is the easy part… that face you show the world the one everyone expects you to wear…
The construction of the rest of the phrase though ….“One for God … Save me.” You can read that two ways, and Tuomas almost certainly did that on purpose. You can read that as “One face for God,” THEN “God Save Me.” You can ALSO hear it as “one face for ‘God, save me.’” The words in the lyrics are separated into two lines, but there is no punctuation, and as a musical phrase, it’s unclear if there is meant to be a pause between the lines suggesting a comma or a separation. So, You can hear it as “this second face is my private self I show only to God,” or “this second face, a face of dispair (God, Save Me!”) that I can’t show the world because I’m a big rock star, everyone expects me to be living an awesome life.” I just find the construction of that phrase fascinating, and I think we’re meant to.
The Third chapter "The Pacific" is just gorgeous. He leaves a nice hint that 'The Ever Free" means something by capitalizing it in the lyrics. It's a reference to a Victorian Era poem by Barry Cornwall, “The Sea.” Reading that poem helps a lot when trying to understand Tuomas’ connection to the ocean. The Ever Free comes in the first stanza:
THE SEA! the sea! the open sea!
The blue, the fresh, the ever free!
Without a mark, without a bound,
It runneth the earth’s wide regions round;
It plays with the clouds; it mocks the skies;
Or like a cradled creature lies.
Then the reference to the "Penitent Thief.” The Penitent Thief in the Gospel of Luke Chapter 23, Vs 40-43 - the "Second Robber to the Right of Christ" (not actually named in the Bible, but traditionally known as "St. Duomos" - I wonder if the similarity of the names is intentional
3 Minutes though. "3 Minutes And Counting." If you weren't sure Tuomas was a genius before this, all you have to do is skip ahead exactly 3 minutes from that line.
Just. So. Much. To this song
Oh yeah watch the movie you will get the context of the 1000 pages of erased text I guess backstory is that Tarja the original singer left the band a lot of songs got retired other than fan favorites.
I need to check out the movie soon. 🤔
That's a hornet's nest I wont touch, "band being too harsh in their open letter". :D Not saying I dont agree, nor do I say I agree. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. That's part of why we're watching your video, to hear YOUR take on ..things.
I personally always simplify the background of this song as "it's basically Tuomas' suicide letter/song". Obviously he didnt end himself, but this song is what he did instead. So we got a lovely song, AND get to keep Tuomas' brilliant mind in the world.
But it's NOT only about Tarja leaving/being fired. It's probably the trigger. But the lyrics are not specifically about her from start to finish. It's also about how journalists/media and fans treated Tuomas after the fact. I believe the crows feasting on the rotten poet-line in the song is media(or fans?) are the crows, hacking away on an already knocked down Tuomas/poet.
I'm one of those old fans that's been with NW since the early days (in my case 1999), so I was used to Tarja, and their music and her voice. So it was a really, REALLY big thing when this letter and the 'firing' happened. Then after that we got Anette as the new vocalist. Anette has a good and beautiful voice, but she doesnt really fit with most of the already existing songs NW has. There's literal videos of YT where you can hear that her voice can't handle certain parts, of some songs. Anette has always been more of a "pop"-y type of singer. Hence why the music during her 'era' is more ..pop-ish(?). But then we eventually got Floor and, well no one can deny that Floor is..just simply amazing.
I never picked a side back then, tuomas vs Tarja debacle. Things like this do happen everywhere in the world, not just in bands/music. It's simply a relationship that didnt work out. Tarja being too much of a diva, wanting more money, and preferring to travel with her husband(also agent) than travelling with the band. Is she wrong? In the right? Again, it's a debate that will never end. (just like the floor vs tarja BS comparisons). My personal opinion is that as the vocalist or member of a band, you travel WITH the band. Your husband/wife/partner can either travel with the band too, or in worst case, he/she can probably find their way there. But I'm still not saying Tarja was 'wrong' in travelling separate from the band. But it to me just adds to the already WELL-KNOWN diva-tendencies she had. There was also a documentary, think its from the 90's or very early 2000's, where we get to hang out with the band members here and there. Guess who wasn't part of that documentary at all? Our beloved Diva. She refused to be in a documentary, about the band she's part of. So add it all together, one can also understand why Tuomas and the rest of the band finally felt ...it's enough. Tarja wont do anything with the band, she's too 'high and mighty'(in some ppl's eyes), demands more money, and refuses to do gigs that doesnt pay extremely well. Anyone saying Tarja is a diva, is not completely wrong.
But as mentioned, maybe the open letter was a bit too...harsh from the band. But it also shows transparancy from Tuomas/the band. Instead of "uh, where's Tarja, what happened, we know nothing". Now we know. Might've been tough for Tarja to be slapped with that letter, getting the news along with the rest of the world.
But then again, she was gonna leave anyway. She wanted so much more and cared mostly about herself and not the band. And the band is Tuomas' baby, and if you're in the band, you're part of the family, but when one family member (Tarja) cares more about herself and her money and whatnot, putting the band/family behind everything else - there really isnt much else for Tuomas & Co to do, after talking to her, no changes, then there's just the classic "there's the door, bye".
You can believe that this period of time wasn't easy for Tuomas either. He didnt take any pleasure in getting rid of Tarja, Tarja was more than just some vocalist in a band. Tuomas and Tarja were also really old friends. And sure there's been theories for ages, that Tuomas were in love with Tarja, and all that BS. (people wanting to make more drama out of this than you'll find in a soap opera).
All in all, this song is one of several things that shows where Tuomas' mind was. He wasn't exactly jumping around celebrating that Tarja's gone. He got his 'fair share' of backlash. It kinda divided the NW-fanbase.
Either way, great reaction as always Nikki. Always enjoy your reactions, no pointless hammering on the pause button every 10 seconds like some annoying reacting-channels do.
Keep up the good work, and remember, stay safe, stay awesome.
I took 1000 pages of erased text as songs not done yet he had written for Tarja. Now gone.
Ahh..okay. That makes sense 🤔
You are not wrong with this being an emotional one,and a rollercoaster at that. Not only did the guys and Tarja have a rough breakup,but even many of theyr own supporters started accusing Tuomas of .....well,i did hear alot of different stuff back in thoose days,i heard words of the guys bullying Tarja out of the band,and other untruthfull nonsence. Most of this i think was orchestrated from Marcelo Cabuli,Tarjas husband. I have seen more recent interviews with Tarja,where the interviewer of course were super biased and made it sound like Nightwish owed her an apology etc.
They didnt treat her badly,i know she felt upset over the letter being publicly publised as well for everyone to see. But i know Tuomas choosed to do so,so that theyr supporters would know the journey with Tarja,on how they felt that she changed once Marcelo came into the picture. A childhood friend they really didnt recognize all of a sudden....
I understand her on that letter part,its not a good feeling that "private matters" becomes public,but i believe that Nightwish spared themselfs alot of untruthfull slander by publishing the announcement letter for everyone. Remember,even some of theyr own supporters (aka fans) started attacking and blaming Tuomas,alongside media.....he got attacked on all fronts,for taking a decision for the better of the band. Tarja said to Tuomas that she would leave the band,in a very disrespectful way.....only when Tuomas gathered the guys around to talk this over,and come to a conclusion (everyone agreed that it was for the better that she got fired,so they could start looking for a long term replacement) Only then she started saying that she wanted to stay around,to finish another album or something similar. It all feels like just words against the wind at this point.
But yeah,Tuomas developed depression and wanted to kill himself at one point,but luckily he ended up taking his own life lyrically and not in real life.
The last chapter always gets me,its his own mothers caring words for her son she saw in so much pain. Tuomas said that it was indeed his family and some close friends he had to thank for getting out of the suicidal thoughts.
Marko already had some bad blood with Tarja at the time,so when this ended in a departure and Marko withnessed everyone blaming Tuomas,he got even more upset with Tarja and Marcelo. So Tuomas wrote him the angriest parts of this song,wich is genius! As Marko got to air out his frustration. Marko also goes in on Marcelo in "Master Passion Greed",it has no music video and no live video. Marcelo threatened to sue them if they ever brought it for one of theyr setlists,or made a video for it. Marko is going OFF vocally in that song,its on YT but as a song,still picture upload.
And there is a final goodbye to Tarja as well,where they are being sarcastic,honest in Tarjas direction. That song is Bye Bye Beautiful,and it has an official music video with Anette in as a lead singer. But by how much drama and disturbance Marcelo created,i think its safe to see that his reaction towards theyr songs,exposed him. What i can say positive about him,is that he married her back in 2002 i think,and they are to my knowledge still together. So he must know how to treat her nicely,wich is good. I dont think i will ever forgive him for everything he did though,as he has never pointed to his own mistaces,just blamed Nightwish. Tarja has showed more greatness there,she has buried the hatchet with Marko,Tuomas and i believe the other guys as well.
Marko has even toured/done concerts with Tarja recently.
But yeah,Emppu going over early to check on Tuomas,is a clear sign of how difficult it was for Tuomas to perform this song. Then the moment where both Emppu and Marko gathers up around him at the end,like protective brothers. And what some tend to miss,Floor is really flickering with her eyes alot towards the very end,with the long notes. She is fighting not to tear up and mess up her vocals,and just as she is finished and steps back,she looks over at Tuomas surrounded by the guys,to make sure he is okay. This performance always breaks me.
I have suffered with both depression and anxiethy all my life so far,so i can relate to the lyrics alot. We all have many of the same thoughts at 1 point in our lifes,just in different settings. (Hopefully i didnt write too many blunders) OH BTW,that top looks amazing on you. I have only seen females (FLOOR included lol,she actually rocked tops like that alot in After Forever) with plain black ones,so i found the red/pinkish stars looks extra nice,especially since you have long dark hair (like Floor). Hopefully you dont take this in a weird way,i just felt like being nice to make your day a tiny bit better. And yes,you nailed the pronunciation of Emppu. (I also agree that some of the words were harsh in the letter,but there are 4 males and some road crew that will confirm today if need be,that Tarja started separating herself from the band,this was all manipulative tricks from Marcelo. He was her manager as well,so he wanted her out of Nightwish so he could focus on her as a solo artist) I feel like Nightwish did the right thing in not letting it go any further,they saved everyone alot of extra frustration and drama. It was a harsh call,but it had to be done.
Maybe it's time to meet 5 beautiful ladies in high heels and dresses playing classic heavy metal? For starters, I recommend the song Break the Wall from their earlier albums. Boasting over 70 hit singles, they won Best New Metal Band at the Metal Hammer Awards in 2018. The girls play heavy, thrash, power and prog metal, they also have some beautiful ballads - ruclips.net/video/5Pc0XK0lNmU/видео.html
I'll add it to this week's poll ☺️ Thanks!
it has nothing to do with Tarja, but everything with what happend after that with Tuomas and the world!
The Poet and the Pendulum was written after firing Tarja the original singer. She was the face of Nightwish at the time, and Tuomas (Keyboards) wrote this and considered her a muse to many of the songs he had written at that point. They had also grown up in the same city and knew each other since early childhood. All the band members decided together to fire her for acting too much of a diva And her husband & Manager was stepping way outta bounds concerning the band business He always wanted more money , only big paying show but the band did it for the love of music and there fans . According to all the band members, Tarja was missing lots of rehearsals and would not even travel with the band anymore. Tuomas was painted as the devil by many fans, and went through a deep depression. He even considered ending the band . He wrote The Poet and the Pendulum at that time, and actually kills himself in the song. He said he killed himself in the song at the 10:00 time stamp , as to kill the pain he was going through . To this day every time he plays it, it takes him back to those feelings, and shows on his face. In the last part, Mother and Father, words are said to him that his real mother said to him at that time of his deep depression. One part that touches me at the end when the guitarist Emppu and bassist Marko, the only other two involved with firing Tarja (that were still active with the band at the time of this show )were standing with Tuomas at the end in solidarity and love., NOTE : the 1st two words are (The End) and the last two words are (The Beginning) representing the end of the 1st era of Nightwish and the beginning of the next era
I wish people stop pushing the "you have to read the Tuomas/Nightwish versus Tarja backstory". It forces people to look at the song from Tuomas' perspective from the beginning. If you first listen and maybe if you're interested then read the backstory the song gets even deeper because then it has your own interpretation and Tuomas' interpretation next to it instead of only Tuomas' perspective. The meaning of art is personal for everyone
Tuomas looks like a vulnarable young boy during this whole performance, especially at the end when Floor is singing the words of his mother and father and he is singing along. No headbanging and as you said one time an uneasy smile at Emppu.
I believe Tuomas gave words for himself, the band menbers and the fans that were torn after the break with Tarja. But also he spoke for his childhood friend Tarja. "I cannot cry cause the shoulder cries more". The drama that happened needed to be expressed, brought to life, to survive the pain and loss.
The only way Tuomas really can express himself is through music. "Sing what you can't say; forget what you can't play" (Dead Boys Poem). He did that in the most genius way with The Poet and the Pendulum. Thank you for your reaction! Very well felt, well done.
Marko sang the entire demo for this - darker and nastier. Guy Elliot was the boy soprano at the start - from St Mary's Choir School Reigate. Nightwish was Tuomas' child and he did not know it it would survive the events behind this song. Very brave to put his emotions on show but also better to commit $uicide here, in song, instead of in reality. The composition, arrangement and lyrics all make this a masterpiece and this performance is the best there is! It has helped me through similar trials.