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SBC Votes For Women Pastors!?
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- The Southern Baptist elites continue to assure us that there is no liberal drift in the SBC. Meanwhile, they rallied the troops to vote down the Law Amendment that would have reserved the office of the pastorate for biblically qualified men.
Two items I misspoke on that I wanted to clarify:
-There were 10,000 messengers, not 15,000 at this years convention
-First Baptist Alexandria was removed from fellowship, not First Baptist Jacksonville.
Thank you for being honest and taking the time to correct that! God bless!
I would love to leave my liberal state of Illinois, but I am a pastor called here to lead my local church. I'm in Northern Illinois and I can tell you that it's a very spiritually dark place. It needs the Gospel and Biblical preaching desperately. As much as I'd like to go, until the Lord calls me away, I'll be here proclaiming His Word.
Stick it out buddy. Go where God calls you, Stay where God calls you. May He bless you with much fruit in that needful place.
"Waiting On God" Andrew Murray...addresses being in a dry place...yea, I know he isn't SBC, but then neither are the NT writers
1,200 churches in SBC with women “pastors”? I didn’t know it was that many! What a shame.
Exactly!
Really. It's sad.
And the SNC has decided to look the other way?
It wasn’t a vote on women pastors it was a vote on the authority of scripture
that's always the vote, ultimately. yep.
Precisely this.
💯
The "We just want to have a conversation about it" line is so subversive. It is clear in scripture. Would anybody say "We just want to have a conversation about whether murder is really a sin"?
Yes, they would...if you were talking about murdering unborn babies. It's just game to find a way to do what they want to do.
Proverbs 31:30
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
Ladies, you should defer to the men. You should step down from all positions and allow them to lead all ministries.
Bless you Sister.
We just recently hired a pastor from Texas and our church committee had WOMEN on it to get him here. Well guess what, its turning into a disaster
They are pro hibted from ruling at ANY level as you indicate
It’s sad that this is happening around the world. Not only women pastors, but also heresy teachings and pastors blindly associating & promoting false teachers. This is also the reason why we recently left our church. We prayed for direction and God told us to find a church that truly obeys the Bible.
I wonder how many of these so called women pastors are more narcissistic than not….there are ways for women to use their vocals other than them teaching men…..
It's inherent. One cannot humbly submit to the text and yet presume to take authority God forbids
This is why feminism is destroying our churches. People are afraid to speak out against women who refuse to submit to male leadership
It's always about submission. Men and women sin when they don't submit- in the case of ladies, it just happens to be more visible. This is perhaps the most visible version of this.
Another step away from holding the Bible as the final authority
Why is Christianity changing to meet our needs and to become what we want it to become? Is God's way not good enough? Did He make mistakes?
Christianity doesn't change. Churches change. Most people who attend church are doing so out of tradition than for spiritual reasons
It's a great falling away.
“The” …. Better yet “His”church remains faithful to the Lord God, His Spirit, & Word.
Why do we need to shrine anything? Is not the Word of God sufficient enough? Does God need the voting of man to clarify His own Word?
Choose whom ye shall serve
Apparently leftist women think God’s way is wrong.
@@JC-gu2rnif you are implying the Catholic Church, then no, it doesn’t. If you mean the church in the sense of true believers, then yes
A prayer I maintain for all of you, as one who attended as a messenger and recall clear as day what happened, I would ask each of you to exercise charity toward what happened at the convention. I can speak with confidence that even those who voted down the law amendment were not doing so out for an egalitarian agenda, rather as many leaders in the SBC agreed on, there were merely other ways many want to try establishing greater clarity on complementarianism before tossing it up to a constitutional amendment. Be it also known that I voted for the law amendment, but I wanted to listen with charity to those who did not, trusting my brothers and sisters in Christ. Though I have a passion for God's holy Word, I also want to exercise love, which "believes, all things, and hopes all things." I would urge anyone who just wants to rage against the SBC, exercise grace. You have brothers even in leadership in this family of churches who desire to maintain biblical integrity.
"May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." Romans 15:5-6
If you want to stay in the SBC. Change leadership. You can't control something with old leadership. You have to get those out of office who are liberals, or create another legislative group for the church.
First woman pastors then the transgender movement to follow
Agreed.
From what we are seeing outside the church, that seems to be the next step within the SBC.
A confessional statement, or any similar document, is like a guard dog. They are like guard dogs. When a person violates a rule that the guard dog is assigned to protect, the dog alerts. If that guard dog is afraid to bark, and has its teeth removed, it is a useless guard dog. That dog is a pet, not a guard dog. A confessional statement must "bark" when it is violated, and "bite" when the barking is ignored. Churches without discipline will become churches without disciples. Discipline for the Church is to refine, grow, and purify the body. Without it the body dies.
If the Bible does not have teeth no guard dog will help. I was a member of a non-SBC church. Clear statements in the constitution were ignored not due to ignorance but a refusal to look into the scriptures. They became opinions. What is happening at the SBC is sorrowful.
Taking a knee to Babylon one knee at a time...
God has His own who have not bowed the knee to Baal.
Graphic, sad, true depiction.
Ready to buck the Word of God? Start a committee to "study" an issue.
💯
I don't mean this in a graphic way- a woman preaching and pastoring is the spiritual equivalent of a body, standing on top of a head, trying to speak. Not the body's equipping, not the body's job.
You make so many great points here! Thank you for shining the Light of Truth on many dark realities in the modern professing church. I witnessed this SBC worldly drift at a large local Nashville area SBC church I attended for many years. It was run more like a corporation focused on numbers and donations which were then used to bring in more pew sitters, aka "community outreach," little Biblical nurturing, equipping and encouraging of the faithful.
Why are women voting on Doctrine?
Wait, there are women messengers? Well, no wonder!
Good point.
But don’t underestimate the ability of effete “men” to do the wrong thing either.
@@IamDoogy Agreed. It’s all connected.
Matthew 9:37
Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few.
Tom Ascol thinks we need to fight for the seminaries. Why. Why not just stop sending our kids to the seminaries and building our own while we train new pastors in the local church
The alternative is not allowing the enemy to use the institution's built by faithful men as a skin suit for evil.
@@westleyhurtgen4275 we allow him to do that by not cutting support for them. If you could theoretically reclaim them in 20 years, then it's not worth it for the damage done in the meantime. In 20 years you can create alternative seminaries. This is why i ADVISEDLY consider ascols plan to be Boomerism
Why do we need to send anyone to seminaries? We have the Internet now, and access to every theology book ever written? People can learn more from RUclips videos than from a classroom
You need to do both. Build good alternative seminaries and also do whatever is possible to take the official seminaries away from the bad guys
But what about { EXTREME SARCASM FOLLOWS } those explicitly implied passages from I Tim 3 and Titus 1, where it CATEGORICALLY states/assumes that the only ACTUAL qualification REQUIRED for the men, about to be chosen for Pastors/Elders/Shepherds, is that they MUST have formal certifiable training ... and don't worry about those other "optional" qualifications, like being married ... with children ... and ruling their household well ... or ... hospitality ... or other character/experience qualities ...
Centralized power always gets corrupted. Decentralize the power.
This is a rotten attitude you're displaying. It's the kind of contempt that Jeroboam I and the northern 10 tribe of Israel displayed towards the throne of David, and the northern kingdom of Israel produced an even more corrupt government in the process. I'm not saying Catholicism is biblical, but the same thing happened with the Protestant churches once Luther and the other Reformers displayed a rotten hatred towards centralized authority.
I don't need an institution to follow God. Nothing can separate me from the love of God.
Romans 8:18
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Matthew 15:9
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
1 Tim 2: 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
These are the verses - they do not prohibit women from teaching women or children so I see NO reason you can’t have a woman’s or children’s “pastor” don’t go beyond what the Bible says OK?
If women are prohibited to be deacons, why would God approve of women being pastors?
That's like saying women can't be an assistant manager of a company but they can be the CEO.
Because there's no such thing, there is only male pastors. Whatever you are receiving over children is not a pastoral position. And if we are family integrated the question vanishes because you don't have age segregation
@@LintCollectionwomen aren’t prohibited from being deacons though. See: Phoebe. Again, Deacon isn’t a position that lords authority over a man, it just means a specific kind of servant.
Women and children shouldn't have separate pastors. Everyone should be under the authority of the church elders. When you separate people by sex or age, you are sending the message to believers that women and children are unable to receive the truth of the bible unless there is a woman teaching them.
@@nerychristian I don’t think anyone’s debating that. That’s mostly a response to who women *can* preach and teach and usurp authority of.
Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Proverbs 18:22
He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD.
When a religious organization forms a committee to study a biblical issue, watch out. The fight is on (Nicaea). The fight is on.
Canadian residents also support abortion just by living here and we can't all leave, so I'm willing to believe the same is true of Californians. Large moves aren't actually that easy.
His remarks were silly. Jesus said pay your taxes to Rome! Hello!!
@@MrEmeralddog Yeah I mean I get his point, but you can't just tell everyone "you can live somewhere else." That's not how money works. And besides, I'd rather believe there's some hope for us.
I think he isn't binding people's consciences l, but he makes a good point. If the majority of conservatives left blue states, they could conceivably make more of an impact with their feet than their mouths.
@@joys.6347 there is more hope for your country IF you move
@@cosmictreason2242No there isn't. If all the conservatives move to other States, then the Democrats would have permanent control of the best parts of the country. As long as they control the education system, it doesn't matter where you move. They can still corrupt your children through the public school system
Proverbs 19:14
House and wealth are inherited from fathers, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.
Sad
No No No Women Pastors
Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him.
Proverbs 31:26
She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
Not many wise women who are causing division in the church. 🤷🏼♀️
Acts 18:26
He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Thanks Lord for your salvation
Thanks Lord for bible study class
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
Jeremiah 32:17
‘Ah, Lord GOD! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you.
Ephesians 5:31
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
Proverbs 31:10
An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.
I bet the black churches who often have women as pastors/ministers will never be expelled. Because it’s a “cultural” thing.
Luke 10:42
There is only one thing worth being concerned about. Mary has discovered it, and it will not be taken away from her.”
Our Church assembly doesn't have anything to do with SBC.
I’m an SBC pastor who attended the Convention.
The Law amendment received 61% for, 39% against.
Though I voted for it, I felt the language needs clarity on the Biblical definition of a “pastor.”
Hardly a progressive/liberal shift.
We also voted a president who is conservative and publicly for the Law amendment.
The pro-Law amendment candidates didn’t even make the run-off.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
Proverbs 19:13
A foolish son is ruin to his father, and a wife's quarreling is a continual dripping of rain.
I'm from Indiana . I seen Baptist churches around town. But I asked and adult years and years ago what a SOUTHERN Baptist church was about? The man said , what do you mean? Is said "Why do some of them down south call themselves Southern Baptists churches?" The man said, oh the southern Baptist churches down south named themselves that because they believe in slavery and they wanted to be known for that. I said, "That's sounds weird, are you sure?" He said yeah.
Good one. Southerners gonna be racist, right? I guess you also believe white supremacy is our country's greatest threat?
That was the material cause of the split but the formal cause was the ABA was becoming liberal and denying the inerrancy of scripture.
Proverbs 11:16
A gracious woman gets honor, and violent men get riches.
Psalm 46:5
God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved; God will help her when morning dawns.
Job 42:2
“I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Ezekiel 14:14
Even if Noah, Daniel, and Job were there, their righteousness would save no one but themselves, says the Sovereign LORD.
Acts 2:17
‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.
Luke 10:40
But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.”
2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
SBC has been Scripturally AWOL for many years. I don't say that cynically. I say it sadly because many faithful folks embrace it blindly. The Trinity should be our only hierarchy and our Elders of the congregation the shepherds.
Proverbs 31:25
Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.
Zechariah 12:10
Him Whom They Have Pierced
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
23:30 For those forming new denominations or associations: don't have women messengers at your denominational convocations. It's absurd to think that jibes with a careful study of 1st Corinthians 14:33b-38 and application of its principles.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
I was a member of an SPC church for quite a while. Pastor was a solid solid can be, but then when he went into, I guess he called semi retirement to be a pastor for young pastors. I look things over and I looked at the trend. I said, I don’t know who I’m gonna get here as a pastor And I just went across the street to the Presbyterian Church never been happier. There is a wait and a seriousness towards God it’s worth there like I said it should be causing. They have problems too, but didn’t know what was gonna happen even though my church was solid convention convention, since I didn’t know it was gonna happen. I said well let me break before things happen. I think it was a good move.
I need to go to church again as a Christian and to move and find a great and Biblically sound church. I'm a Baptist.
@@Pizza-nd3yj well you can just look there’s some good more fundamentalist independent Baptist churches there’s a lot of their mostly all pretty much the same. They’re pretty solid. There are good southern Baptist churches I’ve always been strictly reformed and new people are coming in our church and this they don’t wanna hear that stuff anymore and that’s when I left him, but I have I knew of a really good Presbyterian PA church right like almost across the street so so that was easy but look around you go to Service samples he would like if usually if you go to three services and you don’t hear nothing wacky you see him opening the Bible and teaching from the Bible not from life experiences. That’s probably a decent churchfor nothing perfect
@@Pizza-nd3yj use the church and Family life lookup
Proverbs 12:4
An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones.
Ephesians 5:24
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Isaiah 32:15
until the Spirit is poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness becomes a fruitful field, and the fruitful field is deemed a forest.
1 Corinthians 14:3
On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
I'm glad I left the SBC in 2007. I don't believe denominational hierarchies are Biblical.
Proverbs 27:19
As in water face reflects face, so the heart of man reflects the man.
Ephesians 5:21
Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
Lol, voting on the Word of God in respect to autonomous churches.
You know these are truly the last days.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Wish you would have not said what you did about the truck. God's will is God's will. My prayers are with ya'll though and SBC. To get it biblically right. As a Pastor of a SBC small country church in NC. We must Preach the gospel and not be ashamed as Paul teaches.
Would you say having a woman "direct" children's ministry is a pastoral role? This is something I see often in Southern Baptist Churches.
Ephesians 5:28
In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED BY GOD. THAT MEANS HE’S THE AUTHOR OF IT. GOD IS NOT A LIAR. GOD NEVER CHANGES. SO BY CHANGING ANY OF IT OR DISOBEDIENCE OF IT IS SIN. FOR ANY REASON. HE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYONE AT ALL TIMES. THEY’LL BE A GREAT FALLING AWAY IN THE END TIMES. I BELIEVE WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON WE ARE SEEING THIS FALLING AWAY. JESUS SAID ONLY A FEW WOULD FIND THE WAY. HE NEVER SAID HOW MANY A FEW WAS. MORE AND MORE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS, ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA, ARE NOT LIVING ACCORDING TO WHAT SCRIPTURE TELLS US TO LIVE. I WOULD NEVER WANT TO HEAR “depart from me I never knew you, you worker of lawlessness” FROM JESUS. I BELIEVE CHANGING SCRIPTURE TO SUIT YOUR OWN DESIRES OR BELIEF IS LAWLESSNESS.
Luke 10:41
But the Lord said to her, “My dear Martha, you are worried and upset over all these details!
This is not what happened.... not even close. It is a misrepresentation.
Do women attend these? We need more of these.
So what you are saying is that if I earmark contributions, the things that I don’t want to support will have a reduced budget. I do not believe that is true, the money to ungodly activity will not be reduced. Money is fungible.
Exactly. All funds are fungible!
Joel 2:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions.
Romans 5:3-5
Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Ezekiel 39:29
And I will not hide my face anymore from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.”
Proverbs 31:23
Her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land.
Numbers 30:2
If a man vows a vow to the LORD, or swears an oath to bind himself by a pledge, he shall not break his word. He shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.
The study posted is interesting. But it makes me wonder, because they counted by position title, but we don't see stats like:
1. # of Members in the churches
2. # of office titled staff members in the churches
Is it more likely in large churches? (maybe they can't find enough?)
Is it more likely in tiny churches? (Not enough people so its all hands on deck?)
There are no excuses. It's affecting everything from small bible studies to mega churches. Women are always looking for ways to gain more power in church. Many times it's not as obvious. Women control churches by being the main ones who plan church activities and by teaching the children
Psalm 34:19
Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the LORD delivers him out of them all.
Proverbs 18:23
The poor use entreaties, but the rich answer roughly.
Isn't a situation where a man just won't step up but women will
Could we henceforth be spared the negative reference to Mussolini, who totally would have been our political ally? Great episode. You guys nailed it. People need to hear this thought.
No quarter for faces
Romans 2:28-29
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
Luke 1:37
For nothing will be impossible with God.”
Proverbs 14:23
In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.
Exodus 4:24 On the way to Egypt, Moses stopped at a place to spend the night. The LORD met Moses at that place and tried to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife and circumcised her son. She took the skin and touched his feet. Then she said to Moses, “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.” 26 Zipporah said this because she had to circumcise her son. So God let Moses live.
Machen stayed until he was kicked out. Paul stayed in several cities until he was thrown out or stoned. This is applicable to fighting for denominations. I'm not referring to the question of whether we should stay in a state or not.
Pure liberal heresy.
It’s unfair to say “women made this happen”. Why would you presume they all voted in favor of having female pastors, and that all men voted against?
Personally, I would NOT attend a church with a female pastor, nor would I ever vote in favor of having one (and yes I’m a woman).